Talking with Pokimane | Dr. K Interviews

technical problems aside let us begin I don't know what we're so uh first of all what do i what what do I call you what do you go by uh I guess a lot of people call me pokey okay you want it to be very personal and call me by my name it's Iman Iman okay what what do you prefer um I guess I've always kind of felt like poki is fine for whatever situation but if someone's going to try to be very personal with me like me the person then I guess Iman makes more sense okay so then what would you prefer I do do you want me to be personal do you want to be personal I think I enjoy I like talking with people instead of characters in general so I think I'm leaning towards Iman but at the same time I don't know if you want to be Iman today or you want to be poki today I think I should be Iman I feel like it only makes sense both of us are really quiet I'm sorry can you say that again I think it makes sense to be Iman okay so then let's let's talk to you Mon so can you tell me a little bit is there something in particular that you wanted to talk about today or something that we can help you with and I say we because twitch chat is actually pretty good at this by now oh that's really cute I think you have a lovely community and you do a really good job of moderating them I think from what I've seen at least I don't think there's really anything in particular because I feel like all my issues are very convoluted okay yeah together that's what we're here for so so I think that that's actually what I think what we do what I try to do is just untangle things for people because I think most people are pretty good at problem-solving they're intelligent they're capable and and it's just it's really ignorant and not understanding that tends to be the problem for most people so when you say your issues like that's like a heavy word like what what do you mean by issues first starters do you know how I can prevent myself from crying during this absolutely whoo uh maybe actually hold on okay do you let me start with this what's wrong with crying I've just been crying a lot okay so but what's wrong with that where did you get the idea that you're not allowed to cry hear that crying is bad I guess just in moments where it feels like it doesn't make sense okay like now okay so let's just pause for a second what are you feeling there is actually a really funny um picture meme on the subreddit I think I can make me motivated if anyone either was watching my streamer has seen it or it's like therapist asks you to open up and then it's like this um glass panel and inside there's a bunch of dishes that are like so close to falling out and you're like I can't and they're like why and then it's just a picture of that hmm but it sounds like that's not what you're experiencing it sounds like it's the opposite right that the dishes your panel is so high and the dishes are starting to spill over the top yeah I guess what are you feeling right now do you do you know I guess the nervousness and I don't know why especially for the last like two weeks I feel like just like very sensitive and like on the verge of crying very often and I don't know okay yeah and in the crying is a bad crying let's start there so so I mean I'm not the kind of person that is of the opinion that like crime is a bad thing I often feel like it's really good and like cathartic or like therapeutic and it kind of like allows you to let your emotions out but it almost feels like I can never get to that point where they're all out either that or like they're just like continuously we're generating yeah oh yeah oh man that sounds rough so what I'm what I'm hearing from you is that you're not you're not opposed to feeling feelings it's just it seems like there's a never-ending well of like negative feelings and even if you let yourself cry like you can cry for a while but then like at some point the crying's supposed to like make you feel better and you're supposed to stop right like it's not just like I've experienced yeah it's like what the [ __ ] it's not like that I was told at some point that this would get better yeah and everyone says that once you let it out then it's out but you're like but then it's back like two hours later yeah so so what I'm hearing from you is that you don't have a bucket that's full of water you have a faucet yeah that sounds rough I guess maybe I I don't really know why cuz I haven't really experienced this before and that's why I like I guess that's like it's like my first question right off the bat and I I saw it like oh this will be fine maybe I will tear up at some point so I don't know why like I literally just say hello and I feel like crying yeah I think for a second okay so my first thought actually can you think for like another second sure I'm gonna guess some tissues I was not prepared you I'm sorry how do you pronounce your name again Iman Iman do you feel lonely let me rephrase actually do you feel alone I don't know I guess it's not really something that I think about because I am like physically not alone because I have like my roommates and stuff and I do have like good friends that I can vent to when need be so in that aspect I feel like it's not like I don't really feel alone in that way maybe in more complicated ways that I do for example like in terms of the things that I have issues with I maybe sometimes feel like I deal with those alone or that there aren't like people in similar situations yeah it can be really confusing when you feel a certain way that you're not supposed to feel yeah or I think especially one of the reasons I was nervous to talk to you today with because I feel like a lot of things I'm um I like shouldn't be justified in feeling because I am also like very privileged and lucky to be in the position that I'm in and that's also I like initially many weeks or months ago when we were talking about potentially doing this sort of thing I just feel like people don't want to hear someone like me complain like understandably so I think that's part of it I'm gonna think about how so yeah so I'm gonna just say what I said again which is it can be confusing to feel things that you're not supposed to feel right so so what I'm getting from you is so the first thing I'm gonna say is that I'm here and I'm with you and at least for a little while you're not gonna be alone and I'm okay with who you are and I don't really care that you have privilege like I don't I mean part of the advantage of being a boomer I mean I know who you are I know you are but I also don't I you know I come from worlds I feel like I'm an alien on Twitch because they're all of these you know they're yeah they're they're all these things that I've done derstand about you guys and twitch and like you know I identify with pieces of it but but there's a lot of stuff that I don't understand so the first thing that I want to talk to you about is because I think this is this is the problem right is that that you you shouldn't be alone but you are I I like what I'm getting from you is like a sense of like shoulds like it's a case of the shuds like you shouldn't feel this way because you're privileged but the interesting thing is that like when Wood Wood Buddha but the whatever said that all human beings are entitled to two things and those things are suffering and death and that's like really really interesting because you know we have this idea that we say money doesn't buy happiness but it you know sure as hell helps but at the same time like I mean I've worked with a lot of people who are very successful and very privileged and the one thing that I've seen is that like I don't think that being privileged or successful is makes you invulnerable to suffering and somewhere along the way we started judging people who have things that we don't have and we started gatekeeping suffering for them and I think that's actually really really toxic right it says that like just because you have something that I don't have you're not allowed to suffer and this is a tango that we all started playing especially the people who are the halves and the people who are have-nots it's one that we both do but in my experience like I hate to break it to you Iman Iman right I hate to break it to you Mon but you know no amount of privilege power Fame or money is going to be an antidote to your suffering and in fact that's exactly what would they learned so he was wealthy powerful either jokes earlier about people in chat said Queen when they referred to you and I think it's actually really bizarre because that's that's literally what what the was like whoo there was a king and he woke up one day yeah it was like tired of his privilege I wanted to see what it was like to live otherwise and I think he became really poor yeah so I don't know that he wanted to see what it was like I think he actually woke up one day and felt exactly the way that you do which is that he cried and then the next day he cried in the next day he cried and the next day he cried and he didn't know why it wouldn't stop and then he's like things are supposed to make this better and then he looked around at him and he said okay like maybe having more followers on Twitter will make me feel better maybe being able to eat tastier food will make me feel better maybe having a more loving marriage but he had all those things so he was kind of [ __ ] in a way that very few people are is he had everything I don't know if you have everything or not it sounds like you have a lot but there may be some some things in your mind that you tell to tell yourself like I don't know in terms of you know if you have kids or relationships or things like that and what you think about that but a lot of times you know people who are privileged or successful in some way like they look at that like that dimension of their life where they're lacking and they say this is what's gonna bring me happiness but booth does uniquely yeah not gonna work hate to break it to you yeah I'm very much a problem solver brain and I also agree it's probably not gonna work yeah I actually think it gets really bad because I become very like kind of compulsive about those issues yeah it doesn't really make a difference at the end of the day cuz I'll just become compulsive about something else once one thing you stall with brilliant so let's I can keep talking about Buddha but I can't let that slide so where does that compulsivity come from why are you compulsive helped us understand that I think I just have a problem-solver brain and it's served me for so many years I can't really turn it off what does that mean problem-solver brain help us understand that um I may think that it spawns from the wrong thing but I always thought that I came from like like having a strong love for mathematics and going into engineering and I mean my life was school and so it was always about like problem solving min maxing trying to be as productive as possible trying to do my best in all aspects et cetera et cetera and I feel like when it comes to content creation what makes a content creator really successful is a lot of being able to problem-solve and being able to min/max and learning what works and doesn't and changing and evolving etc and so because it has served me for so many years it's something it's it's a part of me that is kind of hard to turn off but I have noticed especially as of late that it's more so like not trying to like fix good problems per se or or helpful problems it's just like being obsessive about the next thing that I can fix it make better you you thought that slot hmm you've thought about this a lot very insightful so let's let's let's so let's try to take the next step okay so when you don't problem-solve how do you feel what does that mean not problem so exactly alright so you've got to learn exactly what would they learned okay and so the good news is that you can get better I think it's just gonna happen you're gonna have to do something that you've never done before which is to not try right literally I don't know how to do that yeah so we'll try to help you we'll try to help you not try so let's let's talk about this for a second so you said so let me okay I'm gonna ask you about the tangled stuff okay so so like when you say things are tangled can you help me understand like what like when you wake up and you're crying on a particular day like what kind of thoughts are you having or what kind of feelings are you having it's just you know when something is so tangled it's like where do you start sure yeah just give me something anything yeah I think a lot of it has to do with like like if my personal life is going well like with my friends or like my relationships people in my life then it's like okay well then I need to problem-solve in terms of like work and then I'll just like think about its so hard not to cry you haven't fixed this freak so let's stop and think about that for a second the first thing that you come on here and say is you say problem solve for me fix something for me help me not cry when you when you notice when you set a problem for yourself and in Iman says I don't want to cry and then you start crying how do you feel about yourself like what's that like we saw frustration right like ah you were supposed to [ __ ] help me with this why is it so happening I mostly frustrated with myself absolutely why are you tell me about that how do you how do you feel about yourself I feel like I'm doing something that I shouldn't and that's not something that um works with the kind of person that I am like I really don't like to do things that I actively feel are things I shouldn't do ever okay but doesn't mean that I don't make mistakes obviously but like when I know something is like very clearly like right or wrong and I feel like in this situation like it just does not compute to be cry and so to see myself react that way it's very frustrating okay so what I'm noticing is like I'm just gonna tell you what I heard okay so look at it with me can okay so you have a should Iman shouldn't be crying right now I don't know if it can you hear crying in the background you guys hear that huh never right okay my kid is crying she's having a little meltdown so there is a should and you are not that should and that frustrates you so I think if you want to get to the bottom of this we have to start with like do you remember a time when you were younger where you felt like you should be something and you weren't that thing I think only to give some context basically like my parents immigrated from Morocco to Canada when I was like about four and I think my whole life I've kind of just like grown up with this feeling that I am like a very indebted to them for that because they did they did it to give me and my brother about her life and so a lot of my life has just been like trying to make my parents proud and that's something that means a lot to me and that also goes hand in hand with the like you know doing the right thing sort of thing and that's I like things that I generally feel like my parents would disapprove of like I just can't bring myself to do I don't drink I don't do drugs like I I just like generally try to stay away from stuff that could ever result in them being disappointed in me but I think also that has probably prevented me from ever like like going out and experiencing much in life I also feel like now I am very indebted to like my community and to my viewers for giving you the life that I have and so frequently it just feels like I have all these like telling me what they expect from me and also the problem is the problem solver Amy has created like a system around me that depends on me like as you continue your years in being a content creator you start like delegating things you get a PA you have an agent you have manager you Beauvoir and so I feel like there's all these people that rely on me to do what I need to do in order for them to do what they need to do and I guess recently I've just been thinking a lot about all the all those things and maybe it's starting to feel a bit overwhelming okay so I feel like this should and should not come from a lot of different angles and even now doing this in front of you although like you know I am trying not to look at chat and have this just be an experience between us too it's very nerve-wracking because it feels like anything I do there will be like some way to twist it negatively and that is another reason why crying is so frustrating cuz it's like I mean being vulnerable in and of itself isn't easy but also everyone that's just gonna think that I am a fake crying Amon Amarth are you mean how far are you from perfect fairy do you want to be perfect um I don't think that's possible why do you strive for it because does life makes sense any other way than to try to be I guess your best self my friend yeah because here's the crazy thing okay I'm gonna say something you may not make any [ __ ] sense you are perfect what do you think about that I feel like that's the kind of thing like you say to someone and you like everyone's unique the way they are like you're perfect the way you are I guess that's what I hear yeah absolutely right because I don't think you understand that but I want you to just think about this and I do say [ __ ] like that but it's not it's not because I'm trying to be positive it's not positive I'm not I'm not trying to prop you up I'm trying to talk about what you are now not what you could be like the only thing that exists in this world is what is right so like take a look at your tissue look at your tissue is it a good tissue is it a good tissue or a bad tissue or is it it's a good tissue but why it's it's like got some gunk on it right it's like wet it can't absorb what it should be able to absorb right it did its job no but but it's not perfect because if you if you crime or of someone else cries more like they can't use that tissue so the question is did you do your job like you're not perfect right I'll accept that but did you do your job did you do what you can do did you do the best that you could I feel like I don't know what that is yes no for me to say like what is enough absolutely and and this is the thing you've got to understand what is enough is exactly what you are right so like when you look at the tissue you say it's enough it did it did what it was supposed to I'm content with it is it completely dry no can it hold its maximum amount of tears no but it's held what's what it's needed to for now and I don't blame it for not being drier when it's gonna sound [ __ ] weird okay so if I lose you let me know and if you want to prime or let me know I'm trying to be a little bit philosophical and help you understand this intellectually because I think your your mathematical mind is something we have to leverage that's one of your strengths and in the idea like if you think about an equation like an equation can only kind of be what it is right actually that's not true that's a bad example you could derive the equation and you could turn you to another equation yeah or or I mean we can't say one plus one is three because that's wrong that actually reinforces the idea of should and objective truth so what I actually want you to be able to do is look at your life and say one plus one is three that what you are even though it's not enough what the [ __ ] is my spot if I randomly decided to turn on so did anyway I I'm gonna bring you there hopefully but I just put you to think about this idea that like like you know the only thing that can exist is like what you are like you can't be anything else like I can't make you so like some people like feel like they should be an inch taller right and they're like oh I'm short and it's like yeah man I get that like I get that you have good reasons for wanting to be taller even that you should be taller or that being short sucks but like you literally can't be any height but what you are right and it's not just height that is determined by like our karma in our biology it's like circumstance and you kind of feel like you should do certain things and like I just think that that's wrong I don't think you should do anything I think that you are I know [ __ ] that I say but I mean really it's not that you're perfect it's that you are like if I say you know the pen is here and we can say that this pen is perfect because it's it's exactly where it is it can't be anywhere else I get like it literally cannot be anywhere else that that existence is is it's not could be like the pen can't be anywhere else like it's here and like now it's here like it can't be back over here it is here right the possibility of the pen being here is like is not a real thing because I move it over here but like where's the pen it should be here or shouldn't be it's stupid it's here it's here and in your mind somewhere along the way and I get I get that I think it's brilliant that you you know discovered that it's adaptive for you that it helps you it supports you to strive for perfection is responsible for your success and okay really anyway um so I think what we've got to get to is like the the bottom of like where you get this idea that you should be something and my hypothesis and we'll look for this okay so like oftentimes my hypotheses are wrong so I'll say my first hypothesis is that somewhere along the way you felt like you were something and someone and you really knew what you were and that someone important to you told you that you shouldn't be that and then what happened is like you calibrated away from yourself and towards that thing and then over time you calibrated towards should should should should should and that's what you that's what you kind of like set your you know your zero towards that became your true north and then somewhere along the way like you got left behind is you became pokey Eamon got left behind I can see what you meet and where you're coming from I think it's kind of hard for me to think of a moment or like I for sure like knew what I wanted to be I've been thinking about it recently and I do know that for quite some time I kind of try to separate the two but mainly in order to like um protect myself kind of like people would theorize or say like or try to try to twist a lot of stuff like a publicly I'd be like oh like all they see is like pokey like they don't know me personally and I'm like that's kind of how I separated the two to kind of like make myself feel better but um the kind of theory that I came to recently is more so that not that like I know or knew what I wanted to be but that I just haven't given myself time to like identity develop because I've spent man that's that that makes perfect sense to me like that's that's like literally what I'm saying is that like so a long time ago and I think you've been doing this way longer than you realize or I mean I think you do realize it but like way longer than before I mean how long have you in streaming on Twitch six or seven years and it is it okay to ask people how old they are on Twitter is that not okay yeah okay I also think about that I'm 23 and it's like some of the most formative years of my life I've spent like working to the point of giving myself health issues and just stressing about like pleasing others and what others think and not accusing myself anytime to just like live life and figure out who the [ __ ] I want to be or I'm happy with mmm yeah man I think that [ __ ] figured out all on your own but I've only gotten not far and I've only gotten that far from freaking crying for a week straight good for you so let's think about this right so what I'm hearing is also a subtle should that I should have spent more time on identity to develop yeah that that - it's not like oh I can just like look at myself and Vic oh this is just like how I've ended up it's that is like I feel like talking to pokey and Iman and I think the point here is that pokey doesn't let Iman grow and you're beating yourself up for being pokey too much but that in and of itself is pokey talking right I mean the thing is like I don't see it as like I don't know I don't like see it as an alter ego or really if you like the problem no go for it I'm just gonna say I feel like that problem solver part of me isn't necessarily like only part of like my work side or yeah no no no no it's it's it's not it's not part of your work only like as this what I'm saying like your your tendency to gravitate towards should started way before he started streaming on Twitch and I think you're spot on that you know I didn't realize how young you were but I mean if you started streaming on Twitch at the age of sixteen you're damn right that like a lot of identity development is gonna be kind of you know like stunted to be blunt right so like like 16 to 23 is when when you know people go to college and like I don't know who the [ __ ] I was until I was like 28 least two years yeah and and so like you know so I think it's okay to not know who you are at the age of 23 like people think that 23 is adults but like not really I mean people are like developmentally younger because I think the challenges that we face are likely far more complex what we're is what are we're psychology and brains are assaulted by on a daily basis growing up has changed like it's not like we're living in the woods and like it's the same [ __ ] [ __ ] every day you know it's like it's issues of identity and confusion and and what the world is like my grandmother did not know that other places existed it gets a bizarre thing to think about but like she like literally did not know that other locations were real things like she grew up in her village and she had heard of places but they were like Neverland or stories like Bombay was like a place that people went like it was a story like she had conceptualized that it was actually a geographical location where there are stairs and doorways and cars and people and that the world was like a place it was like a myth but now the world has become a real place and they're in it like even compared to you know 20 years ago the opinions that you had to deal with were like localized to the people that you met but enter the internet where now you can get judged by hundreds of thousands of people are millions of people and you used to deal with the judgment of the kids in school it's like the same thirty [ __ ] kids and now you have millions of people who can judge you know much about preteens and teens in this day and age the other father mental health yeah they're they're really it's it's bad and it's gonna get worse and anyway but so this is this is the thing you want III think I think even the way that you beat yourself up for not having developed your identity is another shot so we got to get to the bottom of the should and you're absolutely right that should is adaptive okay so oddly enough I feel like I'm well equipped to help you because the people that I work with in my day job I think have very similar problems to you which is that they've flagellated themselves into success and they're like they wake up one day and they're they're you know you're apparently Twitter oil tea and and you know in their case they're like managing director at like Goldman Sachs or they're like a physician at Harvard Medical School and and they wake up huh and they say the same thing they're like but I am all of these things like why do I deserve like why am i crime guy shouldn't be [ __ ] crime and then I tell them like well maybe you should like stop flagellating yourself and stop trying to be better and they're like I don't know how to do that I don't know what that looks like that's that's me smiley yeah right like I don't know what acceptance and this is another one of those you know yoga calendar flower kind of things like accept yourself man no but like you literally like that's not like a thing on a yoga calendar that's something that you literally it's like the pen right like you can't be anything but what are its like silly like you literally you can't be an inch taller you can't be more developed in terms of an identity perspective you can't be any of those things because you are what you are you the past is what it is you know we're talking about engineering and mathematics like if you build a structure in a particular way that structure can either bare away or it can't bear weight like you can't what should bear is actually completely irrelevant because either it's capable or it's incapable it's a fact but you don't view yourself as a fact you view yourself as a fiction you view yourself as a should you're not a building you're an architectural diagram you're like a building who looks at an architectural diagram like a different building and says I shouldn't be that but that's like it's like little like a building can't be visas anything about what it is but I also feel like I'm a building but I am the architect of the building that is me so I can change myself to ideally be what I would like to be but I know that isn't really feasible in a lot of aspects but in some of them no because it's it's a reasonable ocean so it's a reasonable thing to think because you've done that right you've been a building who says I want to be one-story taller and then you figured out how to like get people to build you another story and then you said I want to be one-story taller and you figured out how to do that you figured out how to do that so the funny thing is that you've actually given yourself evidence to believe that you can be something that you are not and I still think this goes all the way back to like I mean so I'm thinking about how to say this tell me about your indebtedness to your parents could I also mention one other thing sure um when I think about I guess all of the stuff we've talked about namely I guess um my lack of like giving myself a break over all these years maybe one of the reasons I cry so much is like I feel like I'm mourning over that I was like it's it's so weird I don't really know how to explain it but like I feel really sad for myself yes absolutely because in what I'm telling you I stopped at 17 18 19 20 21 22 it's that's a brilliant of this I'm telling you like so I'm I'm gonna go back to this this idea right so like there was a Mon when you were very young and and there was something that you knew you were and I'm not talking about like you knew you were you know wanted to be an engineer like and then like there was like something that someone told you like hey you should be something different and then you you went towards that thing and then like a little voice inside you said like hey that's not who I am and then this other boy said no no but that's not me you should like you shouldn't be what you are you should be what these people tell you to be and then you went further and further and further and further and further away from that voice and I think what you feel right now is pity you feel pity towards yourself you're mourning because like there was like a little girl in there who like had feelings that were completely fair and legitimate and pokey told her to shut the [ __ ] up and sit in the closet because we have [ __ ] to do and so morning morning is exactly what you have to do and let's just think about what mourning means right because mourning is not about should like let's just think about what is mourning if we think about acceptance and and should what does mourning mean when do we more I know it's so kind of weird has like died or passed yeah but just think about that like when I'm so my dad passed away a few years ago and and I remember like mourning him yeah it's all good please I'm cool with that he's cool with it yeah so sorry I mean I appreciate the sentiment but you know so if we think about that like if I'm mourning do I think to myself he should still be alive today I guess okay so when I've completed morning do I think that to myself you've accepted exactly because should is the opposite of morning like should as saying that this person should not be dead but they [ __ ] are right and so you can tell yourself that they should be alive and it's like you can say it's a it is a tragedy and you can say like they should be alive but like should cannot exist with morning and morning is the process of taking should to acceptance so you should absolutely be doing that I think it's awesome that that's the way that you feel because that means you're doing it right so give yourself a pat on the back you're doing exactly what you shouldn't be doing good job I'm on a plus I don't want validation from that though I don't want validation from just feeling like I'm doing what I should be doing I think every everyone's aware of that right so the way so it's good that like yeah because I mean yeah because I'm giving you the A+ and I'm laughing at it and then you're noticing the absurdity of it and then you're saying I don't want validation from it and I'm giving you a caricature a hyperbole a validation because I'm giving you a [ __ ] A+ which is what you wanted all your life and therein we see that the beast within you is fed so Imani I said this a lot of times about my frustrations with taunts creation which is that there is no rubric and like you know my whole life I've just loved school and it's just all about rubrics and finally feeling like okay when I score at 90 or above like that means I did good I did my job and I can go play video games and rest at night but you know when I'm stuck in a position where there is like numbers don't stop there is no you've done enough and I don't know how to set that for myself at all even though and I am DubLi who's that's how you pronounce the word or EE frustrated with myself because I know it's do we okay perfect I'm DubLi frustrated with myself because it's something that I've known for a long time but it's just a problem not like I don't know how to solve yeah so so it's actually doubly and the way that you solve it is by using the word DubLi cuz that's you can't you're not allowed to say w so like literally really like the way good you should [ __ ] say it that way because it's wrong I'm English what was the second language I learned and there are so many words that I just like can't properly pronounce like that so my bad but no no you're missing the point no English is a second let me let me repeat back to you what you said and you tell me which statement is wrong right you correct your homework so you get an a-plus English is the second language I learned it's hard for me to pronounce all words correctly my bad which widget where's the problem say many Mon my bad or the whole the whole thing really just a my bad right you're doing it wrong go [ __ ] yourselves I'm doing it do bleep like that's that's how you learn it right by telling that part of you that's like hey you should be something else you're like now I'm gonna do this today and that's what acceptance is it's there we could go back and talk about your past but like you know that's what you've got to do you've got to like like think like think about this like think about the thing that you should be doing right whether it's like you pick something and then you don't do it and then you you look at that beast because here's the thing look what happens when you feed a beast beautiful what have you been doing - should your entire life feeding if that grows and it grows and it grows and now you've hit your breaking point because this thing has grown so big it's this it's like a wolf that's the size of an elephant and you just can't feed it enough anymore and it's hungry and it's saying Eamon it's not enough I'm still hungry you should eat better and you're like how how much better do you want me to be and it's like I don't and it's like I don't know but give me more food find some way to make yourself better that's the compulsion and you're like okay I fixed I fixed my relationships and it's like I want more and you're like okay I'm gonna become a successful twitch streamer it's like I want more okay and then you put yourself up on the altar of sacrifice and you say I should be better because you fixed everything else in the outside world and then you give it yourself and you say oh I should be better and then it's like ah good now I'm satisfied because you're never gonna feel better right you can always feed it yourself you know always find something about yourself that isn't good enough and it's just growing and growing and growing in the way that you stop is you stop feeding the beast and then it's gonna hurt because it's like it's gonna feel hungry and hunger doesn't feel good and then you sit with that and so I don't know what it is but like there's got to be a thousand things that you should be doing like what are they I should probably like call my parents more I should make more content I shouldn't like diversify I should make sure I'm responding to these emails and these projects and these sponsor liaisons and blah blah Blee blah and on top of that there are so many people that like rely on me doing these things not only that but they require a lot of direction from me but also I hired them to do the stuff so it only really makes sense and it's just like an endless list yeah so what is one thing that you cannot do today okay I mean I don't know I I will respond to work stuff good for you how does that feel I mean to be honest I have been having these like episodes of just like indulging and not doing [ __ ] for a solid like 12 hours like I guess 24 hours if you include sleeve and that's what well like feel really nice in the moment sort of a bit guilty I struggle with a lot of that guilt yeah like well just like flip-flop back and forth between like how long can I go without feeling guilty feels so good just play video games for no reason with no one watching and then at some point it's like I'm really guilty I need to like do all this stuff that's what needs to change right so like what you need to do is don't flip-flop don't flip-flop balance the problem here is that you've got a seesaw and you're like Iman needs some time to herself and then pokies like no you don't get [ __ ] time any minds like but I feel good and pokies like no no no you guys like you need to be you need to be in the middle right you need to say like okay I'm gonna do this for awhile and the dog that's hungry you're gonna tell the dog like hey man I know it's gonna hurt you're gonna get fed tomorrow and I'm not going to neglect you like pokey serves a seat at the table - like she deserves to be there and she's bitter helped you out a lot and you're not trying to tell her that she's a bad person but at the same time like Iman needs some time to herself and like you can sit with both of those right like you can sit with like I am NOT going to live up to my responsibilities and I'm gonna feel guilty and that's okay I don't have to give in to the guilt and I also don't have to try to conquer it like this is the problem that people have is they try to conquer their negative emotions and you started you started like from the [ __ ] get-go first words out of your mouth how do I not cry how are we doing oh we're okay we're on the right track how did we do that just talking no letting it it's not just talking in correct answer now how do you feel notice how do you feel scrambling for correct on answer trying to compute good soup that [ __ ] you're not gonna find it anything you say I'm gonna say you're wrong that's good I guess like challenge there's a word I'm looking for that I could find but it doesn't matter this is the kind of like back and forth that I feel is actually conducive or constructive to what I need I'm trying to figure out how your squirtle related with that it's squirrely there's squirrel eNOS in there see damn it your money come on no see see even now you're saying but I'm like that statement is saying I'm doing the thing that I should be to grow to be a better person I mean this does feel nice though I know it feels nice but like do you see how deep it is it's like even then the reason you're okay with it because because beneath all of the discomfort you're actually growing you're actually moving towards should I think also it just kind of feels nice to not cry for like three minutes yeah focus on that and not so much think about oh this is going in a good way yes good yeah right so that's that's the pen here you're like oh like for that pens actually like we're fine with the pen being here it doesn't need to be anywhere else and you're absolutely right that that feels good and so now I'm gonna have a crazy crazy thought for you it's not because we're talking it's not because you're venting it's because you are being where you are that's why you're not crying and that's why you're laughing and this is what would the discovered he called it bliss and people don't even know what that means being where you are is bliss and being where are you thinking about where you should be is suffering so you don't you're not getting better at this you can't get better at this you can't level up you can just do it or not do it in a given moment and no amount of doing it before it is actually untrue but no amount of doing it because your brain can change and there's neuroscience at Bolton and all that [ __ ] but just pretend for a motor work with me no amount of doing it is going to change the fact that you have to do it today and now like this is the battle that you have to fight right is like you have to say like okay there's a part of me that wants to be better and like I'm just gonna talk now I'm gonna do the thing into here and now because if you think about all of those shoulds those shoulds are about the future they're not about now they're about like I should do this so that this person can do this I should do this so that this person can do this and then I have to do this and I shouldn't call my parents more because why should you call your pants more because they could die one day and if they died one day and then I'd be guilty because I didn't call me oh my god yeah oh my god yeah that's my brain except like you know for another like two minutes yeah absolutely and then you get exhausted to that in the brain's like hey next thing the next thing to beat ourselves up over beat herself up beat yourself up beat ourself up and you're absolutely right that this is instrumental to your success absolutely right because unless you beat yourself up so you have a high degree of neuroticism and conscientiousness from the Big Five personality kind of if you know what any action is but what that means is that like you're you're basically like a med student you're like a [ __ ] trihard medicine I hate these kids okay no I was not a med student I was an end student and there's a difference okay all the same stem is all the same all the STEM fields disagree but okay all you get where you're coming from if I didn't go into NJ I would have got into med I know you don't have to tell me that Muraki you know Moroccan immigrants coming to the US or Canada like come on thinking about that so much I've literally not only been like daydreaming but just regular dreaming fantasizing about like going back to school please tell me you're not going to become a dog no I I don't think I could become a doctor but yes just like going back to school and I know I shouldn't be look it is not ideal seems like you don't you don't get to you don't get to just change the words and still have the thoughts I know I know I mean you know I was gonna call you a four year but that's okay that's you actually calling attention to it which is fine that's beautiful that's what you should do you should know that that's you noticing it that's I think it's my brains way of you know again trying to problem-solve like oh I'm not happy with the way my life is how about I go back three years when I was in university doing engineering and whatever maybe then I would be well I mean I no no no I I don't know that that's just problem solving because that could be you mom that could that could be him on saying I actually want to go back and have some of those experiences that I missed out on because I deserve them maybe it's problem-solving maybe it's that I don't know what do you think I think when it's specifically in regards to like going back to school it's it was just like that sentiment of like life being simpler because I could live by a rubric but I do think in general when I just think about the amount of time that I've been streaming I think about those also quarantine has really made me think about I guess all the experiences I probably missed out on especially because I had a lot of traveling plans for this year and I felt like that was one of the ways that I could simultaneously do my job but experience new things and feel like I'm like growing as a person or allowing myself to develop some sort of identity that I'm happy with or experience good and bad and now feeling like I guess I can't get to do that it further imposes the fact that I really haven't gotten to in the past and I just feel sad I'm gonna think for a second so sometimes I have these this is one of those moments can she hear me I guess not so I can say this I'll just wait for this is one of those moments can you hear me no huh and this is one of those moments I have these moments sometimes when I'm talking to people and generally speaking in my day job but remember this isn't psychiatry okay so I have these moments where someone says something important and profound that I just have this emotional reaction that it's gonna sound like a complete [ __ ] and I just I couldn't care less okay but good like like I mean I get that you had all these ideas about yourself and like but even then it seemed like it's so subtle it's it because it's the same [ __ ] it's like you're trying to figure out how to be a better you mm-hmm you're like oh like I had this like frankly it infuriates me actually a little bit what do you think about like you know I was gonna travel and still work but like you're still feeding that same beast you're trying to find you're not that's not actually gonna I mean it's gonna help the little Iman in me was like I found a compromise exactly yeah but I think the problem is that that you don't deserve a compromise you deserve Iman Iman needs to get her seven years back like traveling and and streaming it's not like I'm not saying don't do it right because if that sounds wonderful and fun and all that good stuff it sound like a great idea and at the same time like don't confuse yourself that that's I mean it's a step in the right direction but it's not the route like the route is that like you should be able to travel and not work I will have a lot of people telling you otherwise that's fine so so but then then we get back to like okay so like Oh what are you telling me Amon are you telling me that you're living your life for others huh yes but to be fair that's also like where I derive the most satisfaction okay fine so I don't think oh yeah yeah so I don't think that you should ignore others and I think that's part of your entire MA so daughter mine is the son script word for duty so I think that I to have to live my life for others I don't think I can just stop streaming now and I think that that's fine but at least I acknowledge and I think this is what you've got to think about is like it's okay to do things for other people but you should understand sizz not that you don't don't do things for other people it's that you devalue yourself for maybe not wanting to do those things there's a huge difference between saying I'm gonna eat I'm sitting there for getting my afternoon coffee I used to have this problem all the time it I trained at this place called Massachusetts General Hospital and so I was I was at MGH and I was sitting there getting my 4:00 p.m. coffee because I was tired and overworked and all that [ __ ] and I'd get my coffee and then in in the little display case they'd have like this like healthy muffin and they have a chocolate chip cookie and I would have a struggle every day and the turnout that the bran muffin was actually pretty good and and so I would eat the bran muffin and there's a big difference between saying I'm gonna eat the bran muffin even though I want the chocolate chip cookie and saying I should want the bran muffin over the chocolate chip cookie and I think there's a big difference between doing something because you think it's the right thing to do and because it's a sacrifice and beating yourself up because that's not something that you don't want to do I have no problem with you trying to support your community or do things that are like good for the people on Twitch which is great I'm behind that 100% but I want you to be honest with yourself about like he's that actually what you want and if you say let I'm willing to make the sacrifice I mean I make sacrifices all the time my and does this thing where once or twice a week she wakes up at like 3 or 4 in the morning she can't go back to sleep she comes and you know we tried to put her to sleep for a while and then she's like at 5 in the morning she's like daddy I want noodles and I wake up and then I'm up with her from like 4 to 7 and and you know it's absolutely but you try getting woken up at 4 in the morning yeah I mean it sounds cute it's wonderful and it makes me feel like a good dad and this also it also sucks you know so so like I think that the issue here is not that you're not willing to do things that suck the problem is that I think you beat yourself up for not wanting to do them mm-hmm and this still goes back to I mean if you want to go back to the the Trail of Tears we got to go back to like like what was life like for you as a kid cuz I mean that's where all this started mm-hmm the indebtedness like it's crushing he sounded so heavy when you said that that word and should you be grateful like absolutely did they do a lot for you absolutely but I can tell you something else that if you really want to like get emotional that they would be do they know how you feel it would destroy the damn it would destroy them and you have to tell them because I want you to you know what do they want for you come on they want me to be happy I know that and are you sometimes right so are you gonna and this is the the other thing is like print it's pretty smart especially your parents I think they know yeah baby maybe not why don't you tell them how do you feel I don't know it's even hard to tell you how I feel I think it's very um [ __ ] stranger the Internet I feel like it's a very convoluted for starters and also I really really I don't like to worry my parents so even just telling them like oh I had a bad weekend or I'm crying or whatever it is like especially for my mom that will just worry the heck out of her she'll be ringing me every like hour and if anything that just makes me feel more stressed out cuz now not only am I like sad or stressed or whatever it was initially but now I am worried about her being worried and also kind of irritated it's just it's a big mess it does not feel like the kind of process that um yeah I guess I've just learned to deal with it on my own yeah so you remember earlier when I was like talking about this this moment where you were in maan or you were pokey and that you should do something and you didn't do that and you did the thing that you should do and so that being the person that you wanted to be uh-huh I think we just found it like in a weird way like this makes perfect sense to me because what I'm hearing is that you grew up in a household that and I'm not trying to blame your just every household I mean my kids are gonna be screwed up like don't you know don't believe yourselves about that so the children of Psychiatrists I don't know if you guys you guys ever met children of psychiatrists but all [ __ ] up and and so it's just it's it just an inevitability there's no such thing as a perfect parent like I mean you've done phenomenally well on so many metrics and like you're also tortured and like we're all tortured late if that works right and and what I'm also hearing from you is that fundamentally like you know when you expressed your feelings to your mom it sounds like you felt responsible for worrying her and then so there was there was like I want you to imagine six-year-old him on who's like I don't feel good but if mom knows then she's not gonna feel good and so you were protective of your parents and by not showing them like you shoved yourself in the closet there's like crying him on and then there's happy him on and then what happy him on did is she took her crying him on and she's like get into the closet mom's coming what you've been doing your entire life my friend yeah I think you should talk to your parents pardon I think you should talk to your parents yeah I maybe what what what hesitation do you have what do I say okay I can help you with that okay give it a shot you let me know how this sounds your parents are still together yeah so I think you start by telling them that you're grateful and you can add whatever source so tell me their story of moving from Morocco to Canada um yeah when I was four in Morocco it's actually funny when I was really really young I hated it's like school or like doing anything like when I was little I was real wild and then we moved to Canada and then I became an angel sounds good but I became very like studious it was all about like doing what I had to do and yeah that's just how I grew up my mom is a teacher and my dad is like an engineer but also taught at a university at some point so they were always like very supportive when it came to school and that was like you know like I would do on school I would get validation from them and that was like my cycle of happiness I guess and um oh they were also like pretty strict it's like oh you don't go out late like no boys in the house like you don't hang out with too many boys do this you do that a lot of stuff that especially in like high school my friends what do or could do I wouldn't but also like maybe I had like a little while of like being rebellious or angry about that sort of stuff but especially in like my later years of high school by just kind of learned to play around it do you know what that it's not a saying that people use outside of gaming I don't I don't represent all people outside of games what do you get what I mean oh nice they play around I'm not sure what you mean by that because I don't know psychologically or like you yeah I don't know Oh what I mean is kind of just a work around it in a sense work around but I know actuality like sono idol mm-hmm so my wife for example wasn't allowed to have boys in the house either but she her weight would which the way she worked around it is that she took a ladder and would leave it in the backyard so that people could climb up the ladder and come in through a balcony that's a workaround I don't know if that's a to Mickey um for me I mean like sometimes I would sneak out to like get McDonald's with my friends but I was never really rebellious so what do you mean my workaround was just like I found happiness online via just gaming and I love to game so much I was like oh well my parents want me to stay at home all the time anyways so sure I guess I will forego whatever else and just stay at home and make funds online and then when I was seventeen that's when I started streaming and that was also my way of like not being so sad about missing out on other things it was like oh I found something else to do and be excited about yeah so I'm gonna try to keep things practical I'd love to explore that further but I'm gonna try to keep things practical and hopefully you know you I know you want a rubric by the time we end this so no so no but I like rubrics too I feel frustrated if there isn't some sense of progress at the end of it so we can we can be partners in crime there so thinking a little bit about it I mean I would start by just talking to them about like I would start with exactly what you told me which is that you're grateful and also feel indebted to them that you need to be happy in life and then you can even you know add color like you kind of did to mine like I don't know I mean I'm the son of immigrants as well so there's like a powerful story there in my mind about sacrifices that they made to come here and I mean my parents you know we're in like had to borrow money for the plane ticket and and because they couldn't afford a plane ticket and so they came here with like two suitcases in debt and and you know it's it's it's a powerful story of like a lot of sacrifice and like I remember my dad when he was like in high school like they had they like singing class and so he went to singing class like all kids do and then like his say is his music teacher thought that he was like talented so he's like you should come and you know join like this like Club and so they joined the club and they went to go compete and they won so he won first place for singing and he went home and he he showed his my grandmother the trophy and can guess what she did or what she said she said it probably wasn't important because I wasn't related to academics really close she snapped it in half threw it away smacked him upside the head and said what the [ __ ] are you doing wasting your time you should be studying more mm-hmm yeah and so he did study more and he became a doctor and he came here in debt and I know exactly how you feel in terms of that indebtedness and I know for me it manifested in a different way because I didn't do a good job I didn't do well in school I failed and I was filled same for letting them down and then and then eventually I became as I put it all Indian parents dreams and all Indian kids nightmare by becoming a harvard-trained physician and then I became I became that which I loved and what I loved growing up was like my parents would get tell me some random person who I'd met once and their their accomplishments maybe like someone so son was like doing this like oh oh yeah it's so-and-so like mm-hmm yeah go for it I'm just gonna say like many years into content creation even making like six figures plus a year my mom would still hit me with the are you gonna go back and get your degree next semester you know it's like probably yeah but imagine how happy she's gonna be Iman when you tell her that you're gonna go back to school maybe that's subconsciously oh boy that runs deep maybe but going going back to you know how to talk to you I mean I think you got to talk to him and just tell them that like you know I'm grateful and I feel indebted and I feel like I need to be happy but there's a part of me that isn't and hear what they have to say and you're gonna it's unclear what you're gonna get like maybe your mom will start breaking down in tears and then you can break down to tears little you guys can cry and all that stuff and and and yeah and then you good then this is the hard part right you've got to sit with that and then you got to ask her mom why are you crying and then she's gonna say something just because you're suffering and then I'm gonna say well I'm crying because you're crying and then you guys have to figure out like how are you what are y'all gonna do about that oh that's hard to imagine yeah absolutely and this is the thing I'm on I think you're playing a slow player game you got to start treating your family as party members instead of NPCs I'm serious right like you're carrying all of this weight like I can't a mat I can't tell you just the thought like if I had a daughter in your situation it would be so hard I would just be livid that she was not talking these things because that's what I'm here for right I don't want her to protect my feelings I want to be able to do something about them like when my kid wakes me up at 5:00 in the morning like of course I'm furious but it's also like I'm glad you woke me up because you're two and a half years old and you can't make yourself instant noodles I don't want you to try years old yeah but I'm 23 years old and so it feels like I am old enough to the point that like I should be able to deal with these things there it is my parents there it is where did you hear the word yeah yeah but here's you shouldn't like I mean I still rely on my mom for [ __ ] like you know she still tries to do my laundry and it's like it's weird I mean you want to talk about being like not independent I'm 37 sensibly professionally successful independent and I live with four women who all in some capacity take care of me you want to talk about I don't know what Moroccan culture is like but in Indian culture like men are incapable of taking care of yourselves and I'm so incapable of taking care of myself that like one isn't enough - is it enough three isn't about you need I thought I'd to breed a couple to get my needs met and it's a beautiful it's a beautiful scary thing the day that you have a daughter that's old enough that can do something for you it's it's like wonderful but it's also like hey can you go get me that thing from upstairs and they're like absolutely dad and then they go in the editor like yeah okay I can get used to this but you got to tell him I'm on and you got to sit with her like worry and anxiety this is where the problem solver in you rec needs to recognize that like part of your reluctance to deal with feelings probably comes as modeled behavior from her and can you guys sit with the idea that like there's parts of you that are unhappy but like your life is good and you need to share with that with them too like don't give them one seesaw like one part of the seesaw the problem here is that you're you're only giving them one half of the seesaw give them both they'll be able to handle it talk about how okay maybe they can I don't know I mean I think they could I just think it's so hard for me to I guess I guide long matte path of like every time I mentioned something is not well you guys don't need to freak out like I am NOT dying if like I sneeze once you like you don't need to call me every two hours if I'm having a bad day it's fine so now I'm confused mm-hmm for two reasons the first is you say what do I say to them and because you seem to have a really good answer the second thing is you say I should know better and it sounds like you absolutely fine do your exactly your spot-on right you need to sit with them and teach them because you are an adult actually that is the statement of an adult is in recognizing that like you need to explain to your parents and say like and so now I can give you some language around this okay so take notes so when I tell you that I'm unhappy or I cry what do you guys think is going on and what do you think you have to do about it and and just explore that with them which is gonna be a really confusing question like I had a two and a half hour conversation with my mom the other day about like some really basic stuff about like understanding your insides because she just doesn't like I'm assuming that Indian Moroccan culture because I understand a little bit about Moroccan culture like pretty similar in terms of you have your option of stem field no boys in the house you could also perhaps be a lawyer if you want to be a little bit edgy yeah so so in our case it wasn't edgy my dad said I have an older brother and he told he said that one of y'all is gonna be a doctor and one of y'all is gonna be a lawyer and I hate what I used to say my med school interviews and they're like why do you want to be a doctor like what brings you here and I would say well yes so I tell them that my dad told me that one of y'all has to be a doctor when it all has to be a lawyer and my brother's older and he got to choose first and he went to law school so here I am yeah and so talk to them about you know what are they thinking like and then asked explicitly like some and I think you should share like everything that you're sharing with us right which is that you sometimes hesitate to share things with them because of how much it hurts them tell them that and so like what do you guys think about that and then like is it okay for me to like tell you that I'm not doing okay and like I know it hurts you but like I'm gonna be okay like I'm not so worried about it oh you know how like how they say if you have a child you shouldn't be overly protective of them especially when they're like super super young and be too scared of them getting sick because the only way you build your immune system is by getting sick every now and then when you're young I I feel like I guess that's what happened to me in terms of just like general life experiences absolutely beautifully point and am I'm not supposed to be am I supposed to be doing that I was just thinking am i raising my kids wrong oh I don't know I don't know you know it's it's really it's okay you'll find out in like ten or twenty years don't worry about it absolutely that's the approach I'm taking right yeah I guess maybe that's how I see it yeah absolutely I think it makes sense I think you are overly protected and and by overly protected I think what you've been protected from or what you've been insulated against this to a certain degree your own feelings and emotional expression and and so you'll be thrilled you can tell your mom I'm on that that you know I spoke with a guy who happens to be a psychiatrist and he said he he said I was just like all of the middle-aged you know Middle Eastern and or South Asian or Asian attorneys I'm just like that and that I don't know how to emotionally express myself or connect with you guys on an emotional level and I'm also very financially and professionally successful and I'm deeply unhappy I mean I don't think you do but I don't think you're deeply unhappy but I think you've got to connect and this goes back to loneliness like I don't understand you know I think you speaking of things that you've missed out on and things that you owe yourself I don't I don't believe that you need to have an NPC relationship with your parents like that's like I mean it sounds like you're alone from them you you know they're they're NPCs and you have scripted interactions with them it's not like you know it's like you walk up to them and it's like take your pick I am doing well and then she responds with when are you going to college and then it's like it's like literally like a [ __ ] NPC you go up to them and then you right click them and then they say that like come on like what do you think about going to college next semester and you know like in games you can have dialogue with people you can have the same [ __ ] dialogue over and over and over again and those are the relationships we have with our parents I do want to say though that like I also feel bad because it's not it's not entirely their fault I also feel like and I'm here whatever it's about fault also it just makes me really sad because like I left Canada three years ago and I moved out from home at 18 for University anyways but I also feel like it's exponentially more difficult to do these kinds of things with that considerate and with like language barrier to some extent because I feel like that kind of thing would translate so much better in person and I was actually hoping to I was planning on visiting them a week before the quarantine started and I was hoping to like perhaps get to tackle certain issues but then that didn't really get to happen either and I like I can't tell whether I'm like putting it off by wanting to do it in person or if like I really think that that would make a difference but I guess it's just something that I feel has also stunted stunted my ability to do that with them sure do you meditate yes I was doing really good up until two weeks ago and then I started crying a lot there might be a connection it might be connection right so so come on I think you're very spiritually adapt I think you have a mind that's that's well designed for spiritual exploration so and I really would would recommend that you continue to not miss necessarily you have to meditate but I think so a couple of things so you're now we talk about kardama familiar with karma come on yeah could you just sure define it yourself sure I know so so when I look at you I see a certain like you were dealt a certain hand in life and I think that the hand that you were dealt is sort of like geared toward spiritual growth and and what there are a couple of things that I look for and people who are like prone towards kind of spirituality and it everyone is prone to their own kind of spirituality I think you're prone to a very particular kind that's actually like with us because I think you have a lot of the struggles that he had like literally like literally right so if we think about what worked for him like he if we think about you know his starting position in a particular game like your starting position is actually somewhat similar and so his solutions may apply like you know if you I don't know what kind of games you play but if you have a particular star can there's like a particular strategy that's like optimized for you know winning yeah and and so I think that the other thing is you're very self-reflective I don't know if you've done therapy or other kinds of activities or you kind of do this kinda stuff but your ability to catch your thoughts and notice what you're doing for example when you said I don't know if that's like me just making excuses for myself that I want to do this in person and I want it to be perfection even my profession is it that amount of self reflectiveness I think is very helpful for a particular kind of spiritual growth which is the kind of that I I like which is not so much about God or devotion or anything like that it's it's really about understanding like how you work it's actually a system of engineering it's not like religion I'm serious so I mean what I think about it as is like mechanisms of the mind and in your case you have a particular thing called a some scar some scars like sort of a ball of undigested emotion or like a background program that's kind of running in your mind that flagellates you for not being good enough that drives you forward but at the same time it's just like a process that's running on its own and like you know processes that are running on their own can be like good for our computer but then also there are some times where we need like control-alt-delete and like end task and yeah a filthy Mac user but disgusting also an eternal struggle between myself and my wife but anyway so I think you've got this thing right and I think you're able to see it like you're able to see the should and and so I think that's good and I would just recommend that you continue pursuing spirituality and like a pretty concrete way because that's what you'd like to do and and really kind of focus on the stuff because I think you'll get a lot of yield out of it but in terms of you know should it be done better in person I think yeah like I think could you be avoiding absolutely but I think it also you know being able to hug I don't know if you hug your parents but of course I mean some some brown people don't some Asian people don't yeah so yeah so like I for example never my parents never kissed me like it's weird like like I had to like like when I was 18 or 19 I was like I'm gonna start kissing my mom on the head cuz I didn't know what to do and now I'm all about the kissing with my kids but anyway so so III think that you know physical distance may actually be important and you just have to decide like this is also where I think you're trying to set up the perfect conversation which now that's a problem right because like you shouldn't let perfect to get in the way of like starting a conversation yeah and so if you want to do it but that too is like Karma so this is like this is you're gonna moan so I didn't even explain what got my eyes but you know karma is kind of your circumstances is one way to think about it and the way that I think about it is it's really just the principle of cause and effect so like you know if I so if I walk into a bathroom that's flooded that is a circumstance but at the same time if I turn my bathtub on and you know put the stopper in and let it fill up and overflow like that circumstance is created by something that I did so now you're gone well like kovat is part of your karma because it's a circumstance it's something in the external environment it's not something that you control and at the same time like karma is kind of tricky because it's sort of like you can shape your environment over time so you do control your environment to a certain degree but you also don't control your environment to a certain degree and and for you to think a little bit about like like right now so you can't have that conversation during koban so maybe there's some kind of so now do you want to have it are you not going to have it yeah I'm really unsure yeah so I think think about it how are we doing in terms of untangling by the way I think good I'm crying a bit less I want to soon good but in general I I mean going into this conversation has again being reflective I feel like most of my life I've been so busy being grateful for my parents and the fact that they've for the most part been like very loving and supportive that I would have never even thought that anything in regards to my relationship with them would be unhealthy I guess I just put it upon myself to just deal with the Cork's I don't know yeah it's a good way to it's nice to I guess delve into that yeah I mean what I'm so dealing with the courts is interacting with an NPC like you accept them as who they are like if you really want to understand acceptance think about the way that you approach an NPC because they're not going to change right and you just accept them for who they are it's yeah yeah but also like it was I thought I was doing it for them you know you are doing it for them and that happens to be the wrong way to do it yeah Prabhas like the whole point is that like you should do things for them and they should do things for you but your relationship with them is one-sided and like that's a problem and I can I can assure you as a parent that like you know I want a two sided relationship with my kids like that's what they want yeah and just think about how happy they're gonna be when you share with them that you're unhappy and then you share with them that you're happy right and they want to help you get there you might say anyway this is something like in terms of the tangled ball that we kind of didn't get to or something that you feel like is left unaddressed I'm sure could I go to the bathroom real quick yeah sure thank you I guess I'll check quick chat while we're waiting maybe I should go pee too no I don't really like Pierre I don't like drinking I gotta eat some of them first but is Cowell Niranjan no no yeah I'm gonna get food I like talking to him on she's cool Oh is she hard on herself yeah yeah but I mean not not while I'm talking to her right that's like really disrespectful guys I don't I don't mind um I'm gonna drink on stream but like it's not fair to her like you think about it like if you guys came on stream what would you want me to be lucid or would you want me to be and hit like yep he created okay so it's it's not that I don't mind being festive but I you know let's let's think about why we do this right so the stream isn't isn't about I know it's bizarre it's not about an entertainment right like so the one way the thing that screws me is when I start thinking about anything except what the drink the stream is actually for and the stream is to help the person that we're talking to nothing more nothing less and anything else that happens in terms of donations and stuff which is amazing and I'm grateful for it don't get me wrong but like that's not why you do it right you guys should donate and support us because of what we do with the person that we're talking to and also donate because you think it's entertaining cuz we'll do that from time to time but like let's not forget what our primary autonomous is to help the person there because when we help that person like you think about it right because it's AoE healing so if I like you know if I miss Cass to heal like not only does it not help that person but then it like doesn't help any of you guys like I don't know how anyone is helped by me being a drunken [ __ ] on stream entertain sure and that's something that we're willing to do and sometimes it's important to last we'll laugh but like how many of you guys have relationships with your parents where you guys treat them like NPCs and the second thing is where they treat you like an NPC right we haven't even gotten there but like the other thing is like I mean I was just getting on role talking to myself which I sometimes do but the other thing which is kind of tricky here is that you know you learn how to treat them like NPCs in a particular way like because that's how they treat you because they didn't see him on they saw pokey engineering major in a couple of years it's gonna be I mean I don't know what your relationship status is but like it's gonna go from no boys to like why aren't you married yet like that's what happens like one day flip a switch yeah yeah and you're 23 so you may be a bit young but I give it one to two years and if it hasn't started and you don't have a boyfriend then they're gonna and it's not like a boyfriend it's like single now okay marriage when child when yep yeah see that's an NPC it's like when you go to the NPC and it's like you're you're like looking like you're like open the vent like you know the vendor menu and it's like where's the child where is the marriage like I like one of those please like can you you know that dialogue option is like not like they're like clicking the dialogue what when are you married and then they like look at your response and your responses no and you're like no no I'm looking for the response to transition yeah it's like it's like you're trying to unlock the write like you know it's like you're trying to unlock a higher tier of response from the NPC it's like why don't we have to do to get him on to say yes exactly it's like I have to go complete this quest find Moroccan lawyer check bring Moroccan lawyer to him on Jack come on we want you to come visit you go home there's some random dude there he seems awkward you seem awkward at the end of a quest failed yeah you go to you go to the NPC and you're like okay what are you married yet and they're like oh [ __ ] we failed the quest so you know then you know what you do when you fail the quest right and Wow is you go and you pick up you band in it you pick it up again it's and they're like hey I'm on you should come home for you know whatever you come home it's not rocket lawyer it's Moroccan doctor exactly they're like let's try yeah and they're gonna keep doing it because they're treating you like an NPC it's it's it's unfortunate right we don't treat we don't we treat people as caricatures anyway I was just talking to a chat it's okay I go on long rants to twitch chat is all full so come on help me understand a little bit about like you know I'm kind of I'm not sure whether I'm not sure where to go from here I'm happy to continue talking if you want to I'm happy to kind of summarize or if you have questions or things like yeah we are yeah I think there's some other things that maybe we could delve into a little bit namely especially as of late and I don't know exactly why as of late but I feel like I have a lot of I feel very jaded and I feel like I yeah I mean yeah oh and I feel like I have a lot of pent-up a resentment and regards to like I don't want to say like streaming because streaming isn't what bothers me but um a lot of the things that I've come of stream okay and I think it's resulted the jaded Ness in me feeling very defensive okay I didn't but I know we'll have to you know unload that one step at a time yeah you know no so so defensive so you know sometimes I can be a real [ __ ] on stir I didn't mean to like literally laugh in your face when you said Jaden because I just like I was like what the [ __ ] do you think you're like talking yeah sorry when I said that it was because I was referring to I guess another aspect of my life yeah no no I get it but like this is the thing right this is the background process this is you don't just whip yourself in one dimension this is the shoulds because like when you live a life of shoulds you're gonna be resentful like so this is a okay okay so funny at this point it sounds like a disease you have a really bad case of the show it absolutely is a disease there's prescribed yes yes that's what I do as I prescribe things for the case of the show I'm writing a couple of books and one of them like one of the one of the chapters is a case of the shirt of what it could us I call it like I talked about it like it's a disease because it [ __ ] is okay so like first thing to understand is like so let's think about where Jaden comes from okay so anytime you have a case of the shuds you end up with one or one of two things shame or resentment if you fill if if you give in to the shoulds and you accomplish what you should do you end up with resentment and if you don't accomplish what you should do you end up with shame right and you've got a healthy dose of both like you feel guilty for not doing it and once the should is there you're you're stuck with one of those like I hate to break it to you but that's why I think about it as a disease because that's the only thing that can happen because either you sacrifice of yourself and then you end up resent resenting right like I should have a kid that's gonna lead to Jade Yeah right all of the things that we're forced to do in life or that we we don't do of our own because should is not a sacrifice shouldn't sacrifice are very different things sacrifice is a choice should is like a pressure and so the second that that in so I think the thing is you're gonna have more resentment and when you say jaded what I hear is resentment because you gave of yourself something that you did not want to and you like are frustrated about that you were pushed into giving I don't know how much of this applies could be completely wrong I don't know what so like when you said jaded I was like yeah damn right right like it's not something new it's it's that somewhere along there I mean so this is my hypothesis is that somewhere in there that jaded Miss that resentment comes from doing things that you actually did not want to do and you mentioned something about streaming and I think this is a great example of like something that on the one hand you do want to do something that you recognize is your Dharma something that you recognize this fun and is something that you don't want to do in some ways or that you don't want peace of it but you force yourself to take that piece of it maybe because you don't know how not to or maybe because it's worth it but there's a part of you that says I don't want this yeah yeah I think I'm stuck in that place yeah and and so we can talk more about that but like absolutely and then you feel defensive and we can talk about what defensive is so so give me more and this is the tricky thing now what I'm gonna ask you to do Aman is don't give me even though they're wonderful don't give me your conclusions give me raw data right so and I know you gave a wonderful summary so that was fantastic because that got me started and I have a framework but maybe you've biased me in some way and maybe I already think I know the answer maybe not so tell me what do you what do you mean by jaded I think a lot of the stuff that has occurred especially over the last two years has left me jaded both via the ways people have treated me people that I know as well as like randoms online have you been treated dad dad dad dad um [Music] so many people I I just feel so like used and abuse the amount of people that will like um be so nice to me and then ask me for help and behind closed doors like as you know whether it's selfish or not I really enjoy being of use to others I get a lot of validation from that and I feel like it's good for everyone but then like at any given opportunity will throw my name under the bus or make me the butt of a joke or will what's the word not appeal to anyways well I guess like appeal to or take advantage of the mountains of people that are ready to hate me at any moment and then I think it also makes me really jaded to know that jaded to know what that regardless of like how someone will treat me privately the public aspect of that is so different because there's business involved that sounds fun yeah well like I don't want to say I agree because it's just my feelings but and like there you go and validating him on again no I'm just so used to people in validating me that I just start doing it to myself all the [ __ ] time yeah it's got to change my friend because you're allowed to be resentful oh okay thank you you just worry about you to drop an f-bomb oh I'm so sorry no I'm but I think it's a sign of progress a plus [Laughter] yeah and there's like two sides of it there's like people where I feel it's like manipulative in the sense that like they want to be on my good side privately but then publicly they want to appeal to the people that hate me as well and I've literally had very popular people say very rude things about me have their viewers harass me and then that very same evening or next day they DM me being all nice or asking for help or whatever it is and that is such a freaking brain boom for me because like my reflex is like if someone asks me something I want to respond I want to be nice I want to like do the right thing that's what like I should do and that's like what I enjoy doing but that also having to like calculate weight but this this person like has no genuine care for me like they just want to say stuff that's gonna get like clipped and shipped or have people laugh at or ridicule me or whatever it is like they want their cake and they want to eat it too and then there's the flipside sorry when did where do you get your idea of what the right thing to do where did you get the idea that helping people is the right thing to do well to be fair like it makes me feel good and I'm being helpful to someone else so it just feels like the right thing to do can I tell you a story so I think we have a really messed up view of right and wrong so this is this is a train wreck of a story because I use some script names and it's hard for people to follow so there was a long time ago in India and I butcher the story every time I wouldn't try to keep it quick because I I really want to get you talking again and hear what you have to say but I just wonder I just can't help myself because this infuriates me I like her stories so there was a king in India a couple thousand years ago and he has a couple of kids and his eldest son is blind and then he has another child who's younger is also a boy but is not blind and so generally speaking in ancient India you know the throne passes I was gonna say this today because people call you royalty so I was like maybe this applies to you have to mix up so pay attention so the so you know generally speaking what would happen is the throne would pass to the eldest son but his eldest son is blind so the king is kind of trying to figure out he's like what should I do so he ends up saying you know ultimately concluding that the kingdom is best served by a king who can see because they would go into battle on chariots and archery was a big part of warfare and you have to be an archer and like I know that there's an anime here there we have blind archers but for the most part it's the knight good looks like an anime thing it's not a real thing yeah so he he you know passes over his first son and passes the throne to his second son then everyone's kind of okay with that eldest son is somewhat resentful because he felt like he deserved that creator he was entitled to it and it's we'll see if deserving or in being entitled to certain things as part of what you experience and then like things are actually okay though because you know eldest son can't really raise an army and fight a war because he's [ __ ] blind so then you know so the the king who's the younger brother G has children and then the blind he's also kind of a king the blind prince or whatever has children as well and then the blind king's children are very resentful because they felt like they got a bad beat and they felt like my father should have been king and so I should have been king but he got robbed and I'm getting mugged so they were filled with jealousy and so what happens is that so there are two sets of gun cousins one of those sets of cousins is called the bond Ava's they're sort of the good guys they're the people who are actually kings and then the the bad guys are the Kauravas and they're the jealous people and so what happens is they're jealous for a while and they they actually try to kill their cousins here there and then eventually what they do is they come up with this plan to GAM because they know that the eldest son of the bond Ava's like has a weakness that he can't turn things down so if they're like hey I'm yeah okay so they're like what we're gonna do is we're gonna invite the the guy who actually rules the kingdom over for a gambling night and then we'll like yeah gamble thrown absolutely so that's what they do and and they they kind of they don't really cheat per se but they've got someone on their side who's like really good at gambling so he kind of advises them and they end up the the good guys end up gambling away the kingdom because that guy's a [ __ ] dumbass supposed to be hero that he's a [ __ ] dumbass and and then and then eventually what happens is that one of their that one of the Pandavas advisors sort of stops in he says instead of gambling away the kingdom why don't we put some conditions on it and what you can say is that if you guys win this hand you guys get to rule the kingdom for 13 years but after those 13 years we get the kingdom back and during those 13 years you have to go incognito and if they find you and they can discover where you are it resets the vlog so you basically have to go incognito mode for 13 years and if you can successfully hide for 13 years you get to come back and you get to take that back and so everyone agrees to this before the bat the bet happens they end up losing they lose the kingdom they go into hiding thirteen years pass the governor of us try to find the bond of Oz so that they can reset the timer but they fail and then thirteen years are over bond of us come back and they say to the Kauravas can I has my throne back please and what are the Corolla say yes they say no I'll say [ __ ] you so it's ours now it's mine but even such a good job hiding yeah they broke oh yeah come on they broke the rules they were nice to you in private and meet to you in public and what did you say you said yeah sure take it right you can have the best of me and you can treat me like [ __ ] anyone will get there in a second so then the bond of us are like okay you kind of have a fair argument right like because your dad was the older brother and so like it is you did kind of get robbed and it's not your fault he's blind so let's do halfsies you guys take half the kingdom we'll take half the kingdom and what are the core OS a they probably say see your minds learning okay right answer so they say [ __ ] you and the bond of us say okay fine we can live with that because we're good people I'm on they're good people they're givers they're helpers just like you they're helpers right and other people can be [ __ ] but we're gonna be nice to them and so they say fine give us we're five brothers in it's our Dogma it's our duty to rule because we're kings right we're princes we're royalty I should rule something so give us five villages you guys take the rest give us each one village so that we can do what we were born on this earth to do which is to rule in govern and y'all can have 95% of the kingdom just give us five percent what are the core I must say I think point they just say sure whatever but I don't know yeah maybe they also still say [ __ ] you absolutely right because that's how people are they say [ __ ] you terrible it is and it leaves me feeling so jaded that people can do that and get away scot-free huh jaded is that how you feel and they probably feel I don't know a word worse than jaded yeah right so it's almost like the story is relevant to your situation bizarre mm-hmm so then the bond of us say like they're kind of confuse and then and then there's a guy named Krishna he was the guy who advised the thirteen-year condition by the way so he says absolutely this is unacceptable you guys can't accept this answer so Krishna says you have to fight like it's it's not acceptable like you can't if someone promises you something like be a giving person is one thing like it's one thing to say that you were owed something and accept less and it's another thing to even accept way less but at some point you have to draw your line in the sand and being a good person is not the right thing to do I don't know where to draw yeah yeah absolutely I get that right so that's what we're gonna try to teach you how to do and then the story sort of continues and on the eve of battle so they like rap you know martial their troops and they get everyone together on the eve of Adam one of the brothers is looking across at these people who are who are nice to him when they did when they Deanna people who are is his friends and his teachers and and people that he cares about in respects and he truly believes her friends and he says you know what it's not [ __ ] worth it like it is not worth it to kill these people that I care about and my friends for the sake of like what you call justice says like I just don't want it like it's not worth it to actually shoot an arrow and kill that guy he can be an [ __ ] but I don't want to kill them and then krishna says no you have to fight it's absolutely worth it because it's not about like being a nice guy like life is about doing your dharma doing your duty and in this case your duty is not to be a nice guy and somewhere along the way we we've we've conflated being a nice guy with doing your duty right and you did it with your parents your duty to them is not to protect them that's the nice thing to do absolutely because like how is it not the right thing to do to protect your parents but it's not your tournament it's not your duty you don't owe them license you owe them honesty and you owe them the chance to make your life better even if it hurts them mm-hmm so there's a point where you got to draw your line in the sand and being a nice is not the right thing you've got to do what's right and if people don't meet you right I'm not saying like you burn all bridges because I'm not a fan of that right so like my Road tends to be communication not you know fire and brimstone but but I've also been severely burned that way too burned in what way like even if someone like if I try to speak to someone about an issue privately some people will out that some people will then judge me for trying to resolve something privately it just feels like whether I respond don't respond it doesn't matter what I do it will be twisted and used against me to make me look do you feel powerless you saw the powerless in the situation what I'm hearing for me more than anything else is that you don't have any kind of agency like no matter what you do you get [ __ ] yes that sounds awful I don't know I feel bad saying that cuz like gorgeous I don't like I don't want to like play victim like both because I'm not perfect and because I have privilege but that is you shouldn't be complaining come on is that what you're saying yeah get in the closet good now you're learning get in the [ __ ] closet yeah I'm on you're not allowed to have feelings like who the [ __ ] do you think you are I'm having feelings being hurt by people your Twitter OMT who the [ __ ] told you you get to have feelings and this is this is the crazy thing about twitch right like this is what people don't understand is that people look at you and they look at streamers and they look at the audience and then I think that there's a power dynamic between these two people that one of these people is stronger than the other the whole [ __ ] point of twitch is that we're all equal right like what we see here is like a terrible power dynamic because how do you even fight against that they are formless they're infinite number mm-hmm and you're half a person because half of yous in the plaza yeah like what's the real pout like if the Internet is mad at you I learned this the hardening when I did an open Q&A on my discord live on stream and boy did I get [ __ ] really yeah actually Aquarius experience but like there were 300 people in a disc or chat we were just talking and I was answering questions and one guy decides that he's gonna start dropping and bombs and he just he just doesn't say anything except for the n-word over and over over again and and he says it in a way I mean like there's a small part of me that can't blame the guy because you know I appreciated what he was doing because yeah I know it's like you know strike while the iron's hot and he said it like chugga-chugga-chugga-chugga chugga-chugga-chugga-chugga temperature so he he grabbed anyway so he and so there was a part of me that thought it was hilarious like I can't you know if I saw that on LSF I would have laughed mm-hmm so I can't blame the guy but like that's like there's just no way that like an individual person can fight against the multitudes like you just can't like you can't win against reddit you get you can be you can be logged by reddit and you can be loved by twitch but you can't win against them right it's like a Hydra like you chop off one head like that's like what I'm hearing come use the story the Hydra you chop off one head and grows two more you argue with someone on reddit and it's like boy are two people downloading for everyone like like it's it's amazing it's like it's like every villains story brought to life anything you send them away like only makes them stronger Iman any kind of talks it even this I worry feels like giving people ammo for whatever it may be yeah so I'm gonna try to say something absolutely crazy which is given as much ammo as they want to because whether that ammo lands or not is on you they can shoot but it's your choice whether you get hit they can send you venom and they can send you toxicity and and by the way maybe this is famous last words right because maybe I don't know because I've never been on the bad end I mean people criticize me and stuff but like I don't think it's been anywhere near what a lot of and I'm grateful for that please don't please don't kill but but you know it's easy for me to say so I acknowledge that but I do believe that like the funny thing is that like I think that I do a lot of I mean I think the cool thing and what I mean by give them ammo is that I think that twitch isn't evil right like sure it's this Hydra but like sometimes the Hydra cotton see and that's actually what I've discovered in the month of May is like people are donating like thousands of dollars I think the Hydra is like amazing it's powerful but it's not evil it's just like twitch can be a force of good and power and support and I think that's what that's why you're successful because it's not if you think about like you know the Hydra has a lot more heads that are licking you than it does that are like biting you that's true you know and sometimes it's easy to forget that it's so easy to forget that and that comes down to attachment and a couple of other things but I mean I don't think that you should let you know if it's like if it's being a bad Hydra you've got to smack it on the nose and soon Hydra that you should feel and I want you to feel empowered to say things to speak your truth in like you know if the consequence has happened the consequence has happened you know it's kind of like sometimes you got to be you know tank man is anyway so there's like this very famous photo from Tiananmen Square of like a dude with a grocery bag standing in front of a line of Tanks and and anyway if you it's it's old now but like there's just there's like it's you've probably seen the same sentiment can be found and take your pick of anime when the underdog stands up and you just got a you know you got a hold hold your line sometimes and like if the tanks roll over you they roll over you like I'm not saying like because you are powerless like you can't you can't stop a line of tanks with a human body but like you know that shouldn't stop you from speaking your truth sorry I've been talking for a while no it's okay you know so there's a part of me that says like if people are mean to you in private then you should let them know that it's hurtful and if they want to air that dirty laundry then like then you're done with them so much unnecessary drama I've gone to the point where it's just I just I avoid where I am aware enough to avoid what does that mean if I feel a situation even where I am wronged and perhaps I should tell someone like why are you messaging me like this when you were just talking [ __ ] however long ago I don't even feel like I should do that because that's like an open invitation to perhaps creating more drama and so it's like maybe I will just have no friends and so I have no expectations of anyone that's sad way to live life yeah but maybe I will get hurt less that way you will get hurt less but I understand it's like it's better to have loved than not to have loved at all you take the risk no no no no but let's not accept that right like let's make it let's let's study that let's be scientific so like you've got a choice and and I don't I don't think I mean I mean I'm with you that you know I personally believe it's better to have loved and lost than to never loved at all but it's easy for me to say that because I'm really lost I started out nothing and it it's different like I'm in a different place because I had nothing for a long time and then I've gained a lot I don't really know what it's like to lose you know I was like there's a difference between losing your money and like being broke from the get-go and so I don't really know what it's like to lose like even on twitch like I'm still in the honeymoon phase I think you know people favor it I'm just ignorant like I just don't know like I don't know you know that's what everyone tells all all the boomers tell me like you did savor it who's the boomer now which boomer but yeah I mean I I don't know so I think you know you can try that right like you can try ignoring them you can try not being connected to them and then there's something in me that says that like actually if we if we challenge people in the right way and and we sort of diss on their defensive miss that maybe they can grow and like I don't know I'm just like I don't know what would happen because you say it sounds like when you take issue with them they like Eric publicly and it creates more drama sometimes yeah and what about the other times sometimes they react very defensively I think also because like I don't know it's like behind my back it's easy to make fun of me but directly to me perhaps they're intimidated on some level and if I come to them with like oh like this thing is not okay they'll just be very defensive be mad make a bigger deal out of it privately and publicly whatever it is it's going all sorts of ways and the only times that ever like mm-hmm really goes well is if someone is like closer to me or we have a more legitimate a baseline friendship as opposed to just like being friends or knowing each other or being on good terms but actually that brings me to the other point of like kind of being jaded or feeling bad because even though I have a lot of like good friends on Twitch I never ever feel like anyone would risk standing up for me cuz it could be bad for business and I mean that's nice and fair when it's just business but sometimes what do you think about it it kind of sucks mainly because but like I understand a lot of people just like don't like that's not part of their personality but it is like part of my personality if I ever saw one of my friends being wronged it's just like in me to wants like stand up for that or being like or say like that's not true that's not fair above all blah and sometimes feeling like that would never be reciprocated or never really is reciprocated kind of feels bad so kind of like that whole area of my work like on it when it's just me streaming to my audience and like having a good like a good time like that's fine but then everything past that feels like such a headache and that's just the iceberg honestly I think for a second of course take all the time you want I have no plans this is not plans you man this is complicated do you say that often during these kinds of sessions I don't know I try not to pay attention I guess if I didn't say it often what does that mean for you I don't know I guess you sounded taken aback or surprised or something I guess it does not mean much it is what it is it is what it is I think it means something just maybe it validates my situation to some extent I think so that feels nice hmm do I do I say validating things often I have not kept track I think you are not trying to tip the scales in any way okay but this feels like a nice conversation not paying attention to how validating it may or may not be it I just feel like it's nice to have a back-and-forth about things that I don't frequently talk about so there are a couple of different things here and I don't know I so Iman I want to say if your game with it maybe we can dig into this more later just because I tend to need so the more complicated it is the more I want to be at a hundred percent and I don't know how long I can stay at a hundred percent because I think this could be another like I can't there's no way that you're gonna get there's no way that I can put forward my best self over the course of the next hour and a half that's okay and at the same time I think we can definitely start talking about it but I just so like there are a couple of different dimensions here okay so the first is that and this is I don't mean this make this sound as invalidating is it is its gonna come across but why do you care right like what's your skin in the game like what is it about the drama and the things that are said on Reddit and the things that are said about you and not to your face that bother you there's something about ego and identity and respect and whether that respect comes from the outside or whether it comes from the inside like your worth and we're on the axis of like within them on and outside of them on it comes from mm-hmm and I think unfortunately like you being Moroccan doesn't really help with this and like I know that basically Thai for parents and Indian parents because it is like they do tell you right Oh so-and-so is getting married right like oh and this is happening this is happening this is happening so we're kind of ingrained and you're not gonna be Caucasian or Hispanic or whatever it just depends on what kind of parents you are but culturally like at least South Asian East Asian and sort of like Middle Eastern cultures are very very big into image and in that respect is something that can be like measured with like a measuring stick right it's like not only is that person a doctor it's like they tell me which school he went to and like my tariff I mean I tell my mom you know my mom doesn't thankfully she doesn't make that mistakes you didn't talk about me you're just great right so and and so I think the first thing is about like where your attachment to this whole issue so I think there's there's salvation if you become unattached from it yeah yeah right so that's one option but then there are a couple of other things because I just don't think it's like you know it's it's a shitty answer to say just care less so so like while I think that that's true I don't think that that's like sufficient or we're not anywhere near there yet because not caring means that you have strengths coming from in here and I just don't think you have that mm-hmm and that kind of goes back yeah God so what we were saying before which is my lack of time being able to develop a sort of identity that's kind of how I've related the to which is just like the way to not care about what people think is just to like be confident enough in yourself absolutely right so there's yeah so so I think the other thing is when we talk about defensiveness like that's the ego right like so when someone gets defensive that's their ego activating that's them sense of like wanting to fight back and I think part of what you're running into is that you activate the egos of other people because they know they did something wrong and then very few people have the wherewithal to like recognize when their ego is active in that the words that are coming out of their mouth or by definition wrong because their mind is butthurt and the more butthurt you are the more incorrect things you're gonna think and the more incorrect things you're gonna say but that's not something that they teach us that when your ego is active that's you being hurt and then like anything that comes afterward you know so my kid at 4:00 in the morning came and slept with me in our bed and then she does this thing where she doesn't sleep like in line with us she either sleeps perpendicularly or she sleeps topsy turvy and she just won't stay on a pillow she just like once she just moves around and then she kicked me in the face at like 4:30 because she's just she's like hungry and she's like not sleeping well and stuff and then like you know I felt hurt and I wanted to smack her and like you know I want to smack her because you get kicked in the face by like you know an almost three-year-old and she's actually like yeah it's a reaction and it's the hurt is gonna lead me to do things that are like not good to do and I think that's what you're running up against is when you hold someone accountable they're gonna feel hurt and they're gonna feel defensive and they're gonna attack and then you feel defensive because you're being attacked and you feel hurt so like hurt and offensiveness and ego all tied together and so then there's another issue here which is like how do you relate to people can you actually become better voicing your feelings can you phrase things away in dms that and here I'm thinking calculated now it's like I'm sort of almost tapping my when I guide people who or when I talk to people who have like problems with like corporate boards like say I'm working with CEO and like the board doesn't like him and something's going on like that's what we're kind of getting into how do you how do you write an email in a way that if someone forwards it cuz that's gonna happen right because it's on paper and really yeah it's like how do you write an email that can't be taken out of context or protects you from being taken out of context intersects the most Oh like to the audience they don't consider that the fact that if something were to be shown publicly I mean like depending on what it says that someone would have needed to be extremely calculating and to some of them they would consider that like being fake they would need to be very calculating in order to have something be shown publicly and not cause any issue typically but then also they want you to be like real and never show any sign of like being calculating or strategic or what they would deem is like disingenuous or fake but then that's the very stuff that they accept or think is normal or like or think is acceptable do you kind of get where I'm coming yeah I get I think I get where you're coming from so Waterman sucks that just sounds exhausting yeah like it's like there's so much work into like each thing that go like each word like so normal human beings get to talk yeah right like other people get to DM back and forth what are the [ __ ] they want but you don't get to do that I just wish I could feel like I could be worthy of the benefit of the doubt and I just feel like instead it's the complete opposite it's like how can we manufacture this to make it look like she is some like devil succubus sting monster that is trying to kill people I don't know what happened to mom can you can you tell me what happened so many things have happened Nick one there was this one like for example this one video that went kind of viral where someone was like talking about like the dark side of pokey maid and saying oh she's actually a really bad person because of like this and not and they took a lot of clips from my stream and it's amazing what like ominous music and someone delivering lines very well will say prior to very specific cut up clips with no context not to say that I am perfect or I go about things in a perfect way but it definitely made me look very bad and also just like that in combination with scandals about things that are like not in my opinion like super super important so things like that will occur and then that will make me feel like oh every little thing that I say can be like used against me or clipped out of context or whatever it is and like I am not worthy of any sort of benefit of the doubt and then the cherry on top is that almost any time someone has created a massive issue like that for me in my life at some point or other they slide in the DMS with a massive apology like that video even though it amassed I think millions of views has now been deleted because the guy himself felt like the video like didn't really make sense it wasn't very fair to me and you know what that doesn't delete the hundreds of thousands of shitty things that people have sent to me said about me thought about me or the way in which it has jaded me so yeah that easy Lorena I'm leaking why are you leaking what's what's coming out what's leaking yes I'm you just like pent up feelings and regards a lot I don't know what what feelings sadness it's like I pity myself you pity yourself what about you as pitiable I don't know are you not saying because you don't want to provide people with ammo or do you really not know oh I guess just like I want to say my situation but it has a lot of upsides as well so see there it is again yeah there it is the pens in this hand it should be in this hand it's so I mean really like I asked that question about ammo for a reason because I think what you feel you do not feel as fair to say I don't feel like anything is fair to say yeah that's you Shing him on into the closet right and now we're kind of at a dangerous crossroads because like what you're telling me is actually true this isn't in your head and that's why the [ __ ] is complicated because if you do talk about how you actually feel people will crucify you they're waiting they're out there what is this [ __ ] complaining about alright or they'll use the c-word yeah and I think it's interesting I remember first sort of encountering this with dev and mash and sort of like we were talking about why people are toxic and and I think like you know what I what I told him and and what I still think I kind of believe because I remember who I used to hate right because like I've felt that do I mean being 25 years old and you know have nothing but 80 medical school rejection letters to show for what you've done in life is not like it's not it's like a dark place to be right not having a job being supported by mommy and daddy and you know like not even like not even Kentucky not even helping people like Matt contributing like doing nothing and I think this this is why I like mental health is a problem because like these people don't have it like these people their hatred doesn't come from evil right it's like the Hydra like the Hydra acts like depending on how you treat it I think the crazy thing is that I think those people are like they're hurting and they don't know what to do with that it's like they're like children like if you look at children of a like who are abused like and there was a great stream with LLS about this where he was kind of talking about like he used to act out and be a bad kid and like no no one ever asked a lie mm-hmm no one ever like wondered like they just punished him because he did things that he wasn't supposed to no one ever asks why I know these people who hate you they so with Devin's case I think what what happened is like what I hate the most night even still life I feel it today when I see someone doing something that I feel like I'm capable of but haven't done it infuriates me when someone's better than me and they do something that's fine because they're better than me but when someone's not better than me and they do something that I could have done except I didn't do it and they did do it boy does that make me live it because then I don't have an excuse right then my weaknesses become exposed and then like that's just too painful I don't know how to sit with that pain we don't know how to sit with pain no one ever teaches us and then they attack actually so often when I see people that are like obsessively attacking me I I just I mean there are many emotions but a big part of me just like wants to reach out are you okay what's wrong yeah why are you being this way and then I realize if I do that they'll probably just take it as an opportunity to just say where's things directly to me or screenshotted or do whatever sure so it's become sad oh you know I mean not to go into the Lions Den but like if that happens again send them my way I would love to talk to Sirius I told the same thing to Devin like these people don't show up [ __ ] infuriates me I know they're real toxic as we've had to in cells come on stream there weren't real insults we had a guy with a [ __ ] wife who he was like he's like a normal dude it's like where's the fucked-up-ness like give me give me like gimme give me the worst part like I want the drags right because they deserve a spot too mm-hmm and we need to understand that we need to help them make any send them my way okay I'll link them here yeah I'm serious like like the guy who made that video and so I think there's a couple of other things that I just want to say because I it's complicated there's so many threads here there's something so devastating about getting an apology in private I can't tell you the amount of times and in the moment it feels nice and then long-term I realize wait this person got off scot-free and the amount of resentment is something like do you accept their apology what else am I gonna do I mean I very much appreciate it and I think it takes some sort of courage to do that too but it like in the moment I don't realize what they would never apologize publicly yeah so you know what else am I gonna do like that comes back to the parma right like sometimes it's okay to say I don't forgive you you don't have to like no one is entitled to forgiveness something like somewhere along the way we thought that people were entitled to forgiveness that's not how it works I think it's more so like I expect forgiving them - or like accepting the apology - then make that situation go away but now I've realized no there is still some resentment within me so then that that forgiveness is fake you do it because you're supposed to do it you do it because we've been trained to say it's okay when someone apologizes right and we do it all the time and like yeah it's a real problem like no one is entitled to forgiveness like I know that this place is supposed to be positive but I really think that oh man does positivity infuriate me because it's so [ __ ] dishonest sometimes yeah I mean to be fair really not intentionally like all those times I really thought oh they apologize this is very nice okay let's all move on with our lives yeah so I think I think there's so I think you're halfway there so I think I think forgiving is good but I think it's gotta like be actual forgiveness right so I think that the problem isn't that you're forgiving the problem is that you're not saying the rest of it the problem is is you saying because it's kind of you know because they apologized and then and then you said something really brilliant which is like it doesn't change the fact that there were hundreds of thousands of messages thoughts like it doesn't change the damage it doesn't undo the damage and somewhere along the way we started believing that an apology undoes the damage like if I'm driving down the street and I'm walking down the street with one of my kids and the drunk driver drives by and like you know runs over my child and kills them heaven forbid you know I hope that doesn't happen knock on wood and then that person comes to me and says I'm sorry and then I say I forgive you it doesn't change the fact that you know there's such a damage has been done an apology does not wipe away the damage and the issue here I'm on is that like I think that somewhere along the way we started believing that forgiving wipes away the damage because true forgiveness is part of that mourning is part of that acceptance but even then I don't think that anyone is owed like your own and I'm sorry but you're not they're not owed mercy from you and somewhere along the way like you decided that you were a good person and this is what a good person does but like I think that's your problem like you do you deserve an apology absolutely do they deserve your forgiveness absolutely not I don't really know how else to go about it yeah that's tricky right because we're not talking stuff right I mean I think it starts with speaking your truth and and that too is like in the dm's and you can say like I appreciate your apology but like I don't know that the damage you've done like has been fixed right I'm why'd you feel remorse in that situation people will just be defensive and be like wow this isn't good enough for you and I'm not turn around back yeah I tried to apologize but she was a total [ __ ] about it you know it's there's no way that so you can't win right so and this is this is where I think the biggest problem this kind of comes back to the beginning of detachment is that you're playing a game where someone else you're playing a game that like someone else determines who wins and who loses mm-hmm like this is why you feel powerless because you're playing a game where like no matter what you say someone else can do something with it and that's exactly the [ __ ] point that's where detachment comes from the game is rigged and yet we continue to play it true we put our feelings in our lives in our sense of self into the hands of others and then we [ __ ] and whine but it feels like that's such like an inherent part of the job it isn't in here it's not just a part of the job my friend it's a part of life yeah every time you like when you're year three you in the third grade and you do your math homework and you like get a grade back like that's you giving power to the world like at some point very very quickly it goes about it moves away from learning to grades happens so fast no one gives a [ __ ] about learning everyone gives a [ __ ] about grades it's about the outcome it's about the perception mm-hmm like when when people talk about Moroccan doctors they say like oh this person is a doctor like everyone talks about that person like they're a doctor like no one talks about the people that they sing right and live it's like there's value that a doctor is greater than other human beings it's like it's not greater than other human beings they're just people everyone's just people everyone does their part but we elevate some and it's not about the actual thing in its perception of the thing or the opinions of others and I mean oh you know I think like you're just you're playing a game like in that you feel powerless because you can't wait like how do you win mm-hmm and this is a party that's really really faking throwing whatever you want under the bus but somehow making it out looking nice but I don't think that is the way I would be okay with winning yeah that's not right I'm just stuck suffering yeah no you don't need to stop caring no you don't need to do that good side what was that what is that what does that tell me think for a second you know maybe I don't need to do anything that's exactly right now almost let it slip away you don't need to detach you need to do absolutely nothing just sit with your suffering let him on out of the closet that's the sign you almost let it slip away almost you don't need to do anything because you're perfect right I mean like the rest of the world like haters gonna hate man right we've been saying it for I don't know I don't know yeah satchel you don't need to do anything you know like if like here's the thing so now we're gonna wrap up okay I'll teach you to meditate if you want but you are what you are him on and I think part of I mean my understanding is that you're you know for the most part pretty authentic and I don't blame you if you want but and if you think about it like you know what what's also been responsible for like bringing you to where you are is like is actually you it's not it's not you playing the game and and so you you you are perfect and what you give to twitch is actually like what most of twitch loves and then like what some people do is they hate what you did because it's authentic it's like we hate the person who does the thing that we're capable of and we don't do like the problem is that like you're a generally positive person people [ __ ] hate that they hate that because they're like I tried to be a positive person and I didn't end up as twitch royalty like that's not fair and then they try to tear you down but you you can just be what you are and like like that's what you are and like people love you for it apparently you know I think you're awesome and I don't know if you've been faking it you're doing this for you know if you're farming views or whatever I have no idea like if I tried man I feel like if I was faking things I should be doing a way better job I think I think I think yeah I don't and I think the thing is if you really really stop and you look the world loves you for who you are like I'm serious it's not it's not I know I say positive sounding [ __ ] but I'm not trying to say positive sound you should I'm just saying like can you get to where you are by being who not or by being who you are cuz it's way harder to be who you're not than it is to be who you are I don't think you can get to where you are by being fake fake here and there sure but like your true colors eventually show up I mean twitch is really good at sniffing out false in this vitami yeah I mean when you dream for so many hours yeah yeah you I mean so I mean I think at the end of the day you're spot-on it sits in that sigh and don't lose that in that moment you understood like in that moment you understood because like maybe I just don't need to do anything here absolutely and then then that thing comes up and so I know you should do this and you shouldn't do this and you should do this no don't do anything just be yourself [ __ ] slack off for a day or two and the people are gonna hate you because you you spoke out of turn you're like yeah well no yeah exactly and this is the cool thing right this is the cool thing is when you say oops what is the hydrogen like absolutely it's really cool like it's really really cool like people come on here and air their dirty laundry over and over and over again and like what do they get they get hugs yeah I do really love that aspect when people see the humanity in you yeah like take a chance to see the humanity in yourself last thoughts questions I feel like I'm wiped oh no my eyeballs are wiped this is very very nice I have you know see different therapists and stuff but I've never really got into this aspect of it especially in regards to my family or with someone who like understands the space you know how often are you gonna find a therapist that streams just about never and then you have to go into trying to explain this beast of a thing so it was very nice talking to someone who who gets it well you're very welcome it was an absolute pleasure from I mean I love talking to new people it's make you feel like that's a you people I mean I I love talking to ya but you know I I have oddly enough I I think the reason I say you people is because I identify more with the audience than the streamer I view myself as twitch chat personified on stream as opposed to an actual stream work I really don't think about myself anyway maybe there's a lesson somewhere in there but my brain is too fried to to tease it apart all right you're frying your brain no no I mean I think it's good like you know I I like I like fried food from you know it's just I i I've come to acknowledge my limits but yeah I really appreciate what you've done I you know Iman just to be honest I'm I found myself to be a little bit surprised but I guess I shouldn't be because you know having watched her scream a couple of times I'm I never realized you were hanging on to so much and I feel sad that you've been hanging on to it and I don't think you deserve that I think you deserve to be able to have fun and I deserve I think you deserve to be more fully who you show us I want to think the same thing and feel deserving of that well said see that's a statement of where you are right you didn't say I should you said I want to it's an acknowledgement that you're not capable with that that's actually step forward so it makes me very happy to hear you say that do you want to meditate or we just kind of are we done what do you think oh absolutely how about you just tell me how no no we're going to do have any no we're gonna I should be able to express myself without giving in to that feeling voguing guilt or anything on your part no shoulds allowed yeah [Music] okay I'm not quite sure if this I don't let me let me just think for a second I try to tailor people's the meditation that I teach teach to both be introductory and also to apply to like what people are dealing with I'm tempted to teach you chanting but I want you to do something particular with chanting if that's okay you've ever chanted before I'm chanting heard of this done this okay all right okay all right so home chanting is home is composed of three syllables ah ooh and mmm okay so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna chant over the course of one breath start with ah go through ooh and end up with hmm and so just listen okay you and at home should be listening to [Music] got it I heard the ah I don't know if you lagged out oh i lagged out or maybe it's not transmitting okay let's try again [Music] did you catch that or no I still only heard the ah oh [ __ ] okay well there it goes that it's just I cannot imagine okay so let me do the ooh and let me do and maybe discord actually I'm not sure if it's going on let me check let's see what people are saying it's the gate on this chord I thought so yeah so I think I think they can hear it but let me see if come on alright so we're just not going to worry about that oh okay I'm okay yeah I can't eat I'm doing this okay attention okay so I'm gonna it's it's so I'll do the oh so actually you can do it this way too so we'll do three separates ooh [Music] Jr those I turned on your stream and I heard it they okay so ah over the course of one breath okay we're gonna do five rounds - let's do seven rounds I'm a dropout just because my throat is scratchy when I talk too much um chanting is argh and Aman I want you to pay attention to two things the first is that chanting is about vibration not about sound so you're gonna feel kind of anxious and maybe weird or whatever I don't know if you have any like history of performing or whatever but it's fine to feel those things but focus on the vibration and specifically try to pay attention to where do you feel vibration and it may change with different syllables and really just try to kind of go into that vibration and the last thing that I'm going to ask you to do is after the seventh round after the seventh round I want you to pay attention to like what you feel on the inside and then try to tell me so think about it and then try to notice what's wrong if there's something inside you that's like not right right so just just feel what you are and try to figure out does anything about this feel wrong like is any anything incomplete should is there should somewhere in what you feel after the practice okay all right so so take a deep breath in so close your eyes deep breath in and begin [Music] [Laughter] big deep breath again [Music] more energy [Music] good take a second in and out I now will begin begin again just like that [Music] [Laughter] beautiful focus on the vibration [Laughter] [Music] good two more make them count [Music] take a breath just a breath and down last one long deep calm and full [Music] [Laughter] [Music] eyes closed sit with it and now to try to find what's vlog what do you feel you can answer if you do you feel like something like how do you feel now I feel like especially near the end of like every time we would do it like my exhaustion came through yeah but I feel like um it was nice to kind of get into it because it feels like a mental reset yeah so I think you you got to do something like this and if the exhaustion is coming through that's really good it's not the exhaustion coming through it's the exhaustion coming up because I'm on you're very tired you're very very tired stop saying stuff this can make me cry I mean I'm I'm sorry but you know and I think you don't let yourself you don't let yourself sit down you don't like other people get to take a break but you don't ensure there's a part of that that's like streaming and business and stuff like that but I'm not talking about business I'm talking about up here and so you've got to let yourself feel that and and let it because you don't let yourself be tired and that's not fair sorry back to square one good I mean so so what I tell people is when they meditate what comes up is what needs to come up because meditation is about relieving the pressure on your mind and when you when you create less pressure so if I depressurize a chamber right and I reduce the pressure then it becomes closer to a vacuum and when you have a vacuum more stuff can come in so like there's stuff in you that you've walled off and shut off in the closet that when you meditate you know each round of meditation like towards the end as you enter quietness and the pressure and drops from the chanting you this thing starts to come up I mean this is why I think chanting is a good technique for you because you're gonna you can't sit there you're not ready to sit there you're not ready for the closet to be open you're not ready for that glass wall with the pile of dishes on the other side you're not ready for the wall to come down what you want to do is take a peek inside and each round you chant you peek inside you peek inside you peek inside it's like there's there's you know there's a frightened Aman who thinks that there's a monster in the closet and if I open the door she's gonna freak the [ __ ] out but if I peek inside I'm gonna just look real quick I'm gonna shut it right away is that okay I opened a new shine I hope I shut and I do that a couple of times then like eventually like Iman is gonna be okay with me like like really looking inside and then then like maybe like looking and be like hey do you want to just peek real quick and then you have to let yourself be comfortable with that that exhaustion and let it come up and yeah so I hope that helps I think you're awesome I I do I do genuinely think you're perfect but not in like a twitch royalty soared away like in a you know broken and normal human sort of way yeah and and I think we're all we're all where we need to be and and sometimes where we are or not sometimes usually it's painful and I'm sorry to say this to a chat but you can you can be a popular streamer and it doesn't mean that you don't have feelings like that's what we think right and we think that oh if I once I do this if I graduated from college once I find a girlfriend I hadn't thought of all these different things once I do this then I'll be happy once this'll happens then I'll be happy the part of the story that I don't tell people is that I actually got happy before I started in that school like my transformation happened before and then everything after that has been like immaterial in some way I stopped playing a rigged game I remember a moment in meditation where I just started I didn't used to cry very much or like I hadn't cried like a decade and then there was a moment meditation where I just wept and wept and wept and it was kind of like you know the catharsis that sometimes happens here I had this catharsis where I realized like I'm not any of the things that I wanted to be and that I shouldn't be and I'm just not like I just don't live up to that standard and I just fully accepted that in it was okay that like I like looked around as I go [ __ ] I'm still here like I don't need to be any of those things like I'm just what I am and like it's gonna be like it was it was before deciding to apply for the third time and and so it was that the second it was the second after the second year I applied to med school and didn't get in and I was like I'm just not like I thought I was smart I thought I could do it I thought I could be all these things I was like I can't be any of that [ __ ] I'm just not that good I'm just what I am and that's when I changed there's a lot of stuff that you know led up to that but that was kind of a turning point me too there were yeah there's there's a there are all kinds of stories there about that and people advising me they're like hey man you got like a 2.5 we're not gonna get it what I think is gonna happen gotta havea rejections what's gonna happen I was like yeah well [ __ ] you guys seriously it was I had a lot of people advising me to give up but anyway thanks for coming on thank you for coming doesn't walk - yeah and and you know if you have talks of people I really do want to talk to the worst drags of people who attack you I'll just link your channel and then block them can you link them to the sign up sure and if there really is someone that that yes linked them to the sign because then I need to know who they are so we can talk to and yeah and and good luck and you know if you wanna I'm sorry I didn't have a I didn't have the mana I'm out of mana at this point I didn't have the mana to really have that yeah it's had that second conversation but if you wanna you know I'd love to hear more details about jaded stream or resentment offensiveness and so if you want to talk down the road cool and good luck to you and stay safe and and you know I hope you you know you and your entire lovely big household so take care and thank you very much bye

Channel: HealthyGamerGG

Views: 1,355,965

Rating: 4.9029112 out of 5

Keywords: mental health, meditation, drk, dr kanojia, healthygamergg, healthy gamer gg, harvard, twitch, psychiatrist, pokimane, poki, pokimane offline tv, offline tv

Id: fh518OdBpbI

Length: 178min 12sec (10692 seconds)

Published: Sat May 09 2020