Talking With penguinz0 | Dr. K Interviews

so just a couple of announcements before we jump in today with moist critical critical with a k on september 4th we're going to be uh releasing coaching we're going to have a bunch of spots kind of opening up for more coaches um so for those of you who don't know coaches are basically people from our community who um i've trained personally to sort of help people in our community and attempt to duplicate dr k and you know they're not they're not me but they are actually pretty effective at helping people so part of the cool thing about our coaching program is i don't know if you guys are aware of this but i am a harvard andy so i'm a big believer in evidence-based medicine and scientific methodology um and so what we do is collect outcomes so we sort of measure the the effectiveness of our coaches and they seem to be like pretty good um so the coaches are actually like people from our community who are passionate committed intelligent trained for a while um i work with all the coaches on an ongoing basis in terms of supervising and continuing education um so if they run into an issue with a client like if you guys are stuck somewhere in a session i'll sort of give them advice or help them figure out how to help you move forward so our coaches are really helped are there to help people overcome issues like what we talk about in streams so help you understand relationships help you understand yourself better help you understand procrastination things like that it's not a medical treatment so the coaches are not there to diagnose or treat your depression or your anxiety they can certainly help you kind of think about those things and understand those things so it's not like you can't talk about being anxious but it's really not a diagnosis or treatment so if you guys want to you can uh join the wait list yeah coaches get paid absolutely who knows my notebook hey oh good morning man holy [ __ ] your voice critical no you cut out what did you say i said holy [ __ ] you're moist critical oh yeah yeah do you want an autograph i can like sign you no no no i i didn't i didn't realize that was you dude dude i have actually recently discovered your content and i think it's awesome i appreciate that man thank you i didn't i didn't realize who you were you're penguins yeah yes sir yep yep yeah and you know i know it's crazy because like i swear to god so just so you remember we were on that podcast together and they introduced you as charlie right so i was like okay there's a dude here named charlie and i was like damn that charlie dude asks like really good questions oh and is like like really like thoughtful about his questions i was like that's a cool guy and then i didn't realize like and i was like oh like it'd be cool if you know we could hang out sometime talk more because i really wanted i know you'd ask questions but there are a lot of people who are asking questions about mental health um and i thought that was like really cool and then recently i saw a couple of your videos about um like leafy getting banned and then something today about like uh animal videos on youtube and i was like hey it's that charlie guy and then i saw that your name was penguins and and i was like okay so his i guess his name is penguins and then i i i [ __ ] you not man like let me show you that anyway i was just gonna dude you don't need to prove it i was taking a dump this morning and i was watching your video about um animal videos on youtube um yeah that's a that's a scary rabbit hole right there that'll ruin your [ __ ] experience so and i didn't realize you were you were known as moist critical so i apologize i have like i have this terrible habit of just making random [ __ ] names on every platform it's it's awful but it is what it is twitch is now asking me to show the dump can you prove that yeah did you watch it yeah i it's too late for that but it's it's funny i actually we talk a lot about poop in my household um because then in traditional indian medicine a good sign of proper digestion and diet is your poop and so that sounds about right yeah that's that's how they used to tell whether uh you know whether your bowels are functioning properly or and what not but they used to use a a long time ago the vikings used to use onion soup and if they could smell it through your wounds it meant you were gonna die because the infection spread or something right fascinating i didn't know that but i guess that makes sense um interesting yeah in ancient india speaking of you know excretory material a good way that they would test whether you had diabetes or not is they would have you piss near an ant mound and if the ants came in and actually like drank up the piss it meant that you had sugar in your urine and that got diabetes that's huge yeah it was really great um but theoretically people also maybe were um just drinking urine which is possible but i i like the ant test better yeah i think the ant test seems a little more sound yeah involves consuming less urine so we're big fans of that absolutely so uh and what do you want me to call you do like charlie or oh yeah yeah just charlie you don't have to use any like you know titles or anything man just casual um and and so tell me a little bit is there something in particular i i noticed that some uh my producers have like put a list of questions but um is there something that you want to talk about today or something that can be helpful i'm game to just talk about whatever the the way your producers talked about it sounds like we just talked about what was prevalent what's going on okay kind of you know shoot the [ __ ] there's no boys okay that that sounds great to me so just to clarify sometimes i have personal conversations with people about their life and sometimes i talk with people about stuff do you have a preference of are we shooting the [ __ ] about other things are we talking about you well your chat actually brought up something interesting we can talk about addiction that's kind of become pretty prevalent in my community recently because okay i'm sure you would understand i've been very big into buying yu-gi-oh boxes and opening them on stream okay some simpletons would refer to this as a form of gambling yeah it's because you know not too different from like ea loot boxes you're you're buying a mystery i consider it mystery investing in the yu-gi-oh cards but there's a lot of people that think that perhaps i have a susceptibility to gambling because of this what do you think i think it's simply for the for the fun of opening some yu-gi-oh cards the the unexpected thrill when we pull that starlight that that rush of dopamine i think all of that sounds like a gambling addiction but i think what it actually is gonna say you get a pretty good case for an addiction the thrill was that it's fun yeah you know just that that fun with the chat you know you get to shoot you know shoot the [ __ ] in the chat make some jokes get very disappointed when we don't pull a star light we get to feel the highs and lows and so maybe you know maybe i do have a gambling addiction what do you think i i wouldn't know i mean so far i know all i know is that you're a guy who opens yu-gi-oh cards that's right so let me ask you do you uh so my understanding is that yu-gi-oh is a card game right yeah yeah yeah um do you play the game no no i just collect the cards okay right so so so that's like a let's let's think about a spectrum of addiction so you've just shifted towards addiction right if you don't if you but at the same time people collect all kinds of stuff so it doesn't necessarily mean that you're addicted like people collect stamps right so that's useless and are yu-gi-oh cards useful if you don't play a game with them it's the implication i could battle if i needed to i could make some monster decks and i think that's what makes me scary to the community that you could unleash your monster deck of you go cards on some unsuspecting new noob if you if the if it if this reason arose yeah you can't do that with stamps like what are you going to do with stamps just throw them at someone that's worthless you're going to send mail with them oh yeah who cares right yeah like a ballot or something like that a bill a letter you know okay so i mean so are you serious that your your community kind of jokes about maybe you having like an addiction to yeah so i don't know if it's i know at least a couple people earnestly think i have an addiction i i i don't but maybe like they grew up in a household they're an environment where they were around people that maybe had like a real gambling addiction you know maybe went to the casino more times than they should stuff like that and i i don't see the same qualities here because i make it pretty clear that it's just for like the stream content and the fun and highlight the videos for youtube because i think a lot of the fun comes from just like the unexpected polls and like the you know the jokes you can make when a bad card comes up just i think it's more about the journey instead of the destination i don't really think it's more like i'm there to make money or i'm gonna be really [ __ ] disappointed if i don't get this one thing and i don't think a lot of people can recognize the difference between just that kind of stuff for some content versus a real you know gambling problem or a real addictive personality disorder okay so is it okay if we talk about that for a second so maybe what we can do charlie and i'm thrilled that we're having this conversation because i would love to have this conversation with you it's like we can talk about what addiction is right so what do you think makes an addiction how do we know whether someone is addicted to something like do i love do i just enjoy gambling or am i addicted how do you what do you think so i guess uh in my voice correct in my perspective i think it becomes an addiction when it becomes like the forefront of your mind where you're thinking like i've made this amount of money which means i have this amount of gambling money to set aside or you know it becomes something that you're constantly thinking about as a means of making money or as a way of staying happy like i have to gamble and this will make me happy but if i don't get this i'm gonna be real sad so i think it just more becomes to me an addiction when it's something you're constantly harping on something that's always on your like on your mind you know what i mean sure so there's a certain constancy of mind i want to tunnel down into actually i think a couple of words which i you didn't seem to emphasize but i think are really important you use the word have to right so you said i have to to make me happy to make money whatever so i think that there's a certain compulsion which i think is actually really important it's not so much about what's on what's after the have to or what's before the have to it's the phrase have to there's a certain amount of constancy in your mind so like let's say that and and so i'm just trying to think about situations where let's say i have to go to work and i'm constantly thinking about work let's say i'm an investment banker so this is common right so they they spend a lot of time going to work they feel like they have to um it occupies their mind they get to sleep for like four hours a night do we call that an addiction yeah right i wouldn't call that an addiction that would be more of a profession that is that is actually what they do for a living it is an entire career built around it i think i guess maybe for me the distinction would be if it's not a career just this hobby that has become this absolute focal point of your life where it's taking over other parts of it okay taking over other parts i think that's really important too so we're we're getting to a really sort of classical medical definition of of addiction step by step taking over other parts of your life so let's think about something um else so let's say that i play league of legends for 12 or 14 12 hours a day um i am failing out of college i'm master's league or master's level or whatever and i want to go pro what do we call that is that a career or an addiction what do you think that's tough to me that would be a passion but i think it would be a little misplaced there has to be a balance i think obsession in any of its forms such as that like being obsessed with this drive to make it to the next level in league i don't think anything positive ever comes from that so for me i'd call that another unhealthy addiction to a certain degree but for that person i guess maybe passion would be more the right term for them because they're clearly very into the game they clearly see a career and a future in it but they're letting other parts of their lives slip and fall down the [ __ ] for it which is what most programmers do right before they make it pro they tend to make these sacrifices and they devote themselves fully to an ideal so i'm hearing you kind of say you'd put that ultimately in the passion bucket yeah more so than a like yeah that'd definitely say passion okay um so then let let me just kind of highlight a couple of thoughts one is you mentioned have to so i think compulsion is a part of addiction right sort of a sense of a lack of control over your actions the second thing is a certain constancy in your mind which you sort of alluded to that it's at the forefront of your mind is what you said you're kind of thinking about it all the time um i think that's also a feature of addiction so a preoccupation with the thing so when if you think about if you talk with alcoholics like a lot of them will be thinking about okay like if they're going on vacation in their mind their mind will be sort of figuring out okay when can i drink how can i drink um when am i going to get my next drink and then i think a big part and this is ultimately what sort of determines addiction for me i think it's really important is when you talked about taking over other parts of your life so i would call that like sort of the medical term is impairment of function so if it interferes with your personal professional academic life or your physical or mental health it's more likely to be an addiction that sounds about right to me so i know we don't diagnose or treat things on stream you're aware of that right right so but now let's just think about yu-gi-oh sort of as an academic example would you say you hit those bullets so do you feel like some degree of compulsion to buy yu-gi-oh cards that i will absolutely concede on that it was like even just four nights or two nights ago whenever i opened the last [ __ ] 34 boxes of rise of the duelist that night i was like i need to get more i need to find this card which doesn't help my case like i realize that makes me look like an addict but sure in my my defense like i've got to find that [ __ ] card you know what i mean like the stream's not complete without finding it okay so what i'm hearing is that you do sort of have a sense of compulsion but it also sounds like in in your sense you're sort of making a it sounds to me like it's almost like a career kind of thing for you where you've decided that the stream is about finding the card well yeah not the whole stream i'm not like a yu-gi-oh streamer these days or anything it's just a fun little side quest we've been going on here i guess more so it's a compulsion with a goal it's like really aggressively chasing a goal which is finding you know that that white whale that starlight rare we've been looking for you know what i mean okay okay so there's a particular goal do you find that you're thinking about it relatively constantly no no no the only time i really think about it is when the the boxes come at the door and i'm like [ __ ] this is the one and then when it's not i'm like [ __ ] i'm thinking about it again wait so i'm confused so you're thinking about it when the box arrives at the door and then when you open the boxes and you're done then you're thinking about it again yeah those are really like the only two times i'm ever really thinking about getting more cards or thinking about cards in general really how many hours a day would you send you you say you spend thinking about yu-gi-oh oh man it sounds it makes me sound like a child uh not much i'd say it's a the only times i'm thinking about it like i said is when i actually have the boxes and i'm excited to open them on stream and when we just finished doing it and we didn't and we didn't get what we were going for i'm sorry sorry for making it sound like you were a child do you feel like a child oh you know what a little bit yeah you know when i'm opening yugioh you know makes me feel like a little boy again you know it's that's a feeling you can't emulate these days it's one of those things you crack open that nice pack you get that nice beautiful aroma of some fresh cards you know back like on christmas day 2006 it's lovely it's a blast of nostalgia so yeah it makes me feel like a kid a little bit is that a bad thing not at all okay so it sounds like you don't think about it constantly yeah and would you say that it impairs your function or takes over other parts of your life no i i definitely wouldn't say so i don't think i'm losing my life to yu-gi-oh or anything i haven't been like neglecting my dogs or anything for yukio kart yeah i mean so i think that's a pretty good like you know i i i mean i've never heard of a yu-gi-oh addiction before but i think if you're you know if people are are watching and are kind of thinking a little bit about is this an addiction i think those are the important questions to ask exactly and if the answer to all three of those or you know even two out of three is yes like you may want to consider like getting that checked out or getting evaluated or and i think really impairment to function is the most important one so if it's interfering with other parts of your life then i mean it sounds to me like you're really interested in yugioh it sounds like you have a nostalgic connection to it it sounds like it makes you feel like a kid which is kind of fun and alluring in a world where you know everything is going to [ __ ] um yeah and it's also like something that you're doing with your audience which sounds kind of like fun and engaging sort of like a bit of career a bit of nostalgia and at the end of the day is not causing you to neglect your dogs that's right i'm not hearing that you go 14 hours a day without eating or drinking or using the bathroom because you're opening yu-gi-oh cards not yet but maybe i just haven't got enough boxes who knows yeah i guess one other thing to just think a little bit about is whether from a financial perspective you can afford to purchase and open all the yu-gi-oh packs that you're buying make sure to be very careful with that kind of stuff i i very rarely spend money so when i do i feel like real guilty so i make sure to look over it very thoroughly why do you feel guilty when you spend money it's just how i grew up i never really purchased anything i just kind of always saved and hoarded money and either gave it away or you know occasionally spent it on something every now and then so with the yu-gi-oh it's been very different because the only thing i would ever buy is movie tickets and food and then i bought those yu-gi-oh boxes for stream once and i was like damn this was fun in the chat really enjoyed it so then i spent more money on it and like damn i'm kind of feeling a little slimy about this okay i don't know just to something uh you know just something a little different charlie i noticed that you crossed your arms are you feeling comfortable talking about this stuff yeah i just don't know what to do with my hands because typically i have them on the keyboard here since i'm facing the camera i don't know what to do with them no problem i i just um do you mind if i ask a little bit about you kind of feeling guilty about spending money growing up and boarding shows yeah it's an open book help help me understand um you know a little bit about how you grew up and and how you viewed spending money uh so yeah my parents were they made sure to instill in me the value of a dollar right uh i if i was begging for something at toys r us i wouldn't get it my dad and mom be like nope you can't have that you you know that's that's that we'll give you this toy but you can't have two toys that kind of thing so is the idea of not being spoiled and i just kind of made me feel as i grew up and started having more money just more frugal with it i didn't want to just buy all of these materialistic things because i just didn't need them you know what i mean it was just one of those things where i don't need it i'll save this money use it for something better as opposed to something you know just for me so the way i view money is like making fun content out of it spending money for content is always when i'm happiest when it comes to money as opposed to buying something like a yugioh box that i open in private while i'm scratching at my neck having an episode or something you know what i mean okay what do you mean by having an episode was that a joke oh yeah no i'm just kidding that happened okay hold on a second i thought it was a joke i was like i was like i was envisioning like an episode of like yu-gi-oh withdrawal where you're like feral in the closet like opening up packs and kind of scratching yourself sort of thing okay i said just i thought that was a funny image just kidding um yeah so that's kind of interesting um and and do you have a sense of why your parents felt it was so important to instill in you the value of a dollar uh yeah i grew up in an area that had a lot of spoiled kids like a lot of real [ __ ] you know parents that would just ignore them and give their kids whatever they want it's not too different from parents these days just give their kids an ipad and tell them to go do whatever so my parents didn't like that and they wanted to make sure i didn't turn out to be one of those spoiled kids that just had everything handed to them and just you know live life with this silver spoon where everything they wanted they got you know what i mean and i think that was just a really valuable lesson because i've i've definitely i feel like it's a lot better to spend my money on things that other people can enjoy like you know fun content or stuff like that or giving it to people that could use it more use it for something in their life you know what i mean sure so so just for me versus something better yeah and do you remember how you felt as a kid when your parents you know sort of said like hey i mean what was it like to grow up surrounded by kids who got two toys instead of one and you only getting one toy it never really bothered me i never really had too much of a problem with it i from a young age i was like you know what that's totally fine i can understand why my parents are wanting me to learn this my parents i think have been just incredible role models they it always treated everyone with so much respect and did everything they could for everyone around them and i always recognized that as a really good thing so the fact that they were telling me look it's better if you just learn that you can't always have everything you want at a young age and you'll benefit from it so it never really bothered me that you know my friends would have all this crazy [ __ ] it wasn't really a big deal to me okay because i realized i didn't need it you know what i mean okay um that's really impressive man so it sounds like not only did they sort of uh teach you the value of a dollar but i'm also hearing that they spent the time and energy to try to explain to you what they were doing and why they were doing it so they they would explain everything to me man i don't know if you remember this but there was a nascar racer called dale earnhardt yeah and my my parents loved nascar one of their biggest weaknesses i don't know why they like nascar but they loved it and i was watching nascar and that accident happened where he crashed into the wall and died and my parents immediately like without missing a beat it's like they had [ __ ] scripted his death they're like charlie this is death and you need to understand what this means like i was always be getting lessons and i think that that really just kind of helped me understand things at a younger age as opposed to like you know having to learn it the harder way or you know later on what's the harder way yeah i said as far as death i don't know but as for not getting everything you want you know realizing that you can't always have everything you know what i think is the harder way by yourself because what i'm merely hearing from you is that you know what you you learned a lot of things not alone like you had parents who took the time to really try to explain to you things help you understand things it's interesting i think it makes a lot of sense because you seem to me to be like i mentioned you at the beginning when i was fanboying a little bit um that you know i think you ask really good questions and you're an insightful dude and it's kind of interesting to to see that from a young age your parents taught you how to think or encourage you to think or find reasons or try to understand things yeah well i appreciate that man yeah i really can't thank my parents enough for the upbringing i think the a lot of the the reason that i am the way i am today is because of everything they taught me sure i really appreciate that if you're in the chat mom and dad keep up the great work love you um so so charlie if i can just kind of point something out to you that i think is a little bit strange so i think you know you kind of say i don't need it which sort of makes sense and but that seems to me like a little bit different or maybe related to feeling guilty when you do indulge what do you think about that yeah i guess that might be a little part of it because at the end of the day i don't need yu-gi-oh cards right like my stream's not gonna you know go to the [ __ ] if i'm not opening yu-gi-oh cards like some kind of crazy feral animal it's not something i need and when i buy it it does make me feel a little guilty because again it is big purchases right like 34 boxes of yu-gi-oh cards that was like seventeen hundred dollars like that's that's not like a small purchase it's something i feel guilty about spending that much on something like that which is again just this this thing just for some fun on the stream and no i think the fact yeah i just think the fact that i don't need it and you know it just makes me feel a little slimy yeah so so oddly enough i think the fact that you do it for a stream is what makes it okay for you so i think stream is a good reason that protects you from the guilt because you strike me as someone who wouldn't buy 34 boxes of yu-gi-oh cards unless you had a quote-unquote good reason right and i i think now i'm gonna say something a little bit provocative okay so i think the interesting thing that i'm hearing from you is a good reason as anything except for yourself that's fair i mean that's that's probably fair yeah what do you think about that ah i think there's a lot of truth to it the more i think about it the the more i realize i don't buy anything really for myself all my purchases are either food for me and my girlfriend or movie tickets for me and my girlfriend i guess like the last thing i bought simply for me to enjoy was a dance dance revolution machine and now that i'm talking about this out loud it seems like everything i buy is something that a nine-year-old would think is cool but uh yeah i don't really buy a whole lot solely for me to enjoy but that's because i like to share everything with everybody like if i have something i put it on stream or i make a youtube video out of it yeah so once again everything that you have is for other people yeah i guess so huh right yeah and not to be a little bit um further provocative but like let's just think it's just i'm thinking about some of my supervisors who would just really love to make some kind of bizarre conclusion like you know it sounds like your parents taught you about very mature things at a very young age that you weren't able to indulge in getting two toys and sort of live life freely and openly which is why as an adult you're chasing the feelings of a child i'm not chasing any children don't you put those words feelings feelings right so so you you kind of keep commenting that it makes me sound like i'm a kid and so so some of my like analytic supervisors would be like oh he is trying to rediscover his childhood in adulthood because he was robbed of it because his parents taught him about death at a young age instead of letting him indulge and be a child can you believe that unbelievable unbelievable what do you think about that i i definitely wouldn't agree with that i don't think i'm trying to chase the feeling of anything i missed as a kid i feel like i had a great childhood yeah and it's not like i was you know in the streets selling lemonade you know it's a war-torn area for money so i could buy something for myself like my parents obviously got me things but it was this idea of there's no need to have everything you always want at every given moment yeah of course definitely just the balancing act of making sure i wasn't spoiled but also making sure that i wasn't you know going hungry and not having things to have fun with yeah i mean because because like like you said you know just to be clear we're not talking about zero toys versus two toys we're talking about one toy so you go to toys r us and you get one toy you know and so sort of makes sense um at the same time i am a little bit you know i do wonder a little bit charlie about sort of putting yourself last or not being able to put yourself first and how you feel about that um i never really look at it that way because in general not my happiest when i'm making like cool content or i'm making bigger projects like the music video i did earlier this year that was like the biggest undertaking i've done it was a year-long project a full animation and it was expensive but i liked it doing it because i like putting that kind of stuff out there and i would say like that's for me as well as for sharing it with other people i would say making something like that was putting myself first but it's also something that i got to share with everybody which is what i really enjoy yeah so i don't i really don't view it as a like me putting myself last where you know i'm i you know not spending anything on myself making sure that i'm taken care of or anything like that it's just more so i enjoy doing things that i can share with everybody else what do you enjoy about that all right i was wondering what that was my doorbell doesn't work so it just it just says install cover there's someone at the door um what was the question sorry i just uh i forgot um yeah i forgot give me a second all right no worries oh yeah what what do you enjoy about sharing things with other people um i don't know just always been a really fulfilling thing i've just always enjoyed making things for the fun of making them and then putting them out there for the world to enjoy or [ __ ] on really you don't have to love everything i do i don't expect everyone to love everything i do like i i don't do it for that kind of that kind of reason it's just i have a lot of fun doing it and since i had fun hopefully other people have fun watching it or interacting with it in some way and i just really enjoy that just being able to you know help entertain somebody maybe what is what is that feeling when you keep on using the word enjoy what what do you feel when someone when you share something with someone and they're able to appreciate it um jubilation i'll use a hard word there i i'd say like i really feel great when someone's like look charlie that video was really [ __ ] cool skynet i'd never even thought about robots being powered by semen that was wild that makes me feel like really good oh yes the the music videos about robots powered by semen it's you have to read them yeah like it's s e a m e n or i'll break down the storyline as a little lore recap in skynet it's basically terminator if the machines were powered by nut as opposed to technology electricity yeah it's it's deep there's there's a lot of moving parts to that i don't even want to get into it the fan isn't wild is something that you made or is something okay yeah so uh i have a band with a buddy of mine named troy and we made this song that's all about that and then we hired an animation studio to animate all of it and that was by far the biggest project i've done and putting that out there and seeing people really enjoy it or you know really relate to it in some strange ways just really cool it just made me feel very happy charlie it sounds like the world is lucky to have you that was sweet thanks man i'm what are you right you're just being sweet man i don't know it was just very nice i wasn't trying to be nice can i explain myself a little bit i'm curious how how it sounded when how you felt when i said that all right sure man well let me just because like look so you're you're like one of these content creators right and and it sounds like i imagine you make a fair amount of money and it sounds like what you really try to do is you strike like a really good balance of being sort of authentic and not catering to the masses or giving them the kind of content that they want but really that your goal is to do something that you find like interesting and fulfilling and i think you use a really interesting word which is subtle and has a lot of connotation which is share so you share something without expectation right you give it to people and you say hey i hope you enjoy this i enjoyed it you don't say i need you to enjoy it which is what happens with a lot of content creators you know i want you to enjoy it how can i make something so that you enjoy it the most that's not what i'm hearing from you what i'm hearing is that you know you have some resources and you invest those resources to a certain degree in personal satisfaction but also that like you really try to align personal satisfaction with things that other people can make the world a slightly brighter place or make someone stay better man that was yeah that i think you hit the nail on the head man i really appreciate that it means a lot to even like hear someone explain it that way because that's definitely how i feel like i don't make these things trying to cater to some kind of you know popular take or popular opinion like you know no one's talking about nut-powered machines you know it's just i enjoyed it i like putting it out there and it always means a lot when people like it and if they don't that's fine too like maybe they could make fun of it and they could have fun that way really it's just you know just the the cycle of how i like to to create things and just the way i kind of live my life thinking of well here's something i could do that maybe other people would enjoy yeah and so what what was it like to hear me say that ah man it felt like five different angels all tickling my nut sack like it was just soothing like you just made me feel so at ease and like fulfilled it was wonderful okay do do you feel i mean hey i don't put this back is that an unusual feeling angel's tickling your nut sack well it's you know it doesn't happen as often as i'd like you know what i mean but it's just a nice feeling i don't know man i've always watched it like i watch your show obviously and i always appreciate what you're able to do for the community around here not just the people you bring on stream but also the chat as well i think you do a lot of good work even making people in the chat feel like they're learning something about themselves and feeling good about themselves so i mean i'll make a bold claim here i think you're tickling a lot of nut sacks and making people feel a lot better yeah that's that's generally speaking what my fbi file is filled with yes they call me aka nut sacticler oh i believe it man you're notorious out here um yeah so charlie i i think uh you know i wasn't trying to tickle the nut sack but i think you genuinely offered um you know something that i heard which is that i think you do kind of go out of your way really i think that's actually what's pretty cool about it is that you don't go out of your way to make people feel better what i really hear you doing is offering the most authentic parts of yourself with the hope that other people can benefit from them and there's just something really like pure about that and i just wanted to acknowledge it because i think it's cool man well thank you man i'm glad you i'm glad you think it's cool it really does mean a lot to me and yeah so i i i do i do think there's something here charlie which i think not necessarily that we need to explore further but sometimes when people you said something like uh you know you do it you do some things just for yourself as opposed to like having a better reason to do them um and and i i i know we i sort of mentioned that you kind of put other people ahead of yourself which i think is a really noble and awesome thing i think it's part of what results in what we just talked about right that you really do authentically try to create things kind of for yourself but then do your best to try to share them with other people i do wonder a little bit um about can i just think for a second and try to figure out how to say this hey by all means man so sometimes people are taught that other people are more important than they are and there's a very subtle so if you put someone ahead of yourself there can be a couple of reasons for that one is that you just value other people right so like the person besides you can have a lot of value the other reason that you can put people ahead of yourself is that you can value yourself very low does that make sense it's kind of like a comparison no i totally i'm not saying that you value yourself lowly but i can envision a world in which a kid is surrounded by a bunch of rich kids um and i'm not saying this is you by the way i'm just sort of sketching this out okay and it's your your you have to tell me whether this fits or doesn't fit or whether you want to explore it further or not i'm envisioning if you take a hundred kids that are surrounded by a hundred kids with lots of toys and they're the one that doesn't get as many toys that out of those hundred kids some of them will think or feel like they are worth less than their peers does that make sense yeah i could definitely envision that too but for me personally i don't think it goes like that deep when it comes to putting other people ahead of myself i wouldn't say i value those other people more than i value myself i'd still say at the end of the day i care more about myself than somebody that i have never met before and what's going on there i i just really like to be able to maybe produce something for them that they can enjoy as well it's not because i'm thinking like you know what they deserve something here and i don't deserve any of this i don't think i've ever really felt that way as far as like uh you know that kind of feeling maybe in high school i felt like really low on myself and maybe put others far higher than me but sure i've grown a lot since then in high school i mean that's just rough for everyone you know i'd like [ __ ] pimply face i took accutane twice i was beating my dick every night it was miserable right like it's a high school experience but since then i don't think i've ever really had like this really low self-image or self-worth or anything like that where everyone around me is more important and i'm trash yeah yeah so i'm not getting that sense from you i i'm getting a sense that you're confident you recognize your own worth and at the same time you sort of acknowledge in a simple sort of like human way that other people are super important to and that the really cool thing is that it seems like you can hit both of those you know birds with one stone in terms of you can do something for yourself and do something for other people and that the two aren't actually like one doesn't have to come at the cost of the other that's what i think is actually really cool about a lot of what you spend your time on is that sure you can enjoy opening yu-gi-oh cards but your stream enjoys it too right and it's it's fun for all of you guys together yeah there's some real enablers in there though i'll tell you what they'll tell me i don't have enough cards and i feel like i have to [ __ ] prove them wrong about to flip my desk over and just order 34 more how many how many packs are in a box 24 packs in a box wow and why do you order 34 boxes why 34. well you see it's simple mathematics the more boxes the more chances of pulling that one starlight we've been hunting for but why not 36 or 40 or 42 why jesus you're sounding like my chat you're going to make me order 100 boxes by the end of this stream [Music] that's what the seller had i just ordered out a full seller oh got it okay yes you know this is gonna take a a kind of a a dark turn but sometimes when i deal with people who have had a suicide attempt with taking too many pills they'll say like i took 27 pills and then i'll be like why 27 like why not 24 or 30. and and often the the common answer is because that's everything that was in the bottle um so it sounds like you know they were emptying out their supply too which is a little bit morbid but that's i like to think that buying out the yugioh boxes wouldn't be as hardcore as swallowing a bottle of pills but maybe i just haven't bought enough boxes yet you drown in the youtube cards or something so charlie i do wonder a little bit about you know why you feel guilty right where does that mean the wrong word maybe it's just uh maybe that you know kind of little icky feeling you get sometimes where you did something and it's like well yeah but i could have done this this would have probably been a better use of this time or this resource maybe guilty's just a little too hard of a word for what i feel because it's not like i'm waking up in a cold sweat like charlie you have sinned and now we can't sleep because of it it's just when i make that decision it's like ah that's you know that's a little that's a little icky right what's icky [Music] it's just like that that nagging sensation where i'm trying to think of a good way of putting it because it's not like terrible i don't feel absolutely destroyed if i buy yu-gi-oh boxes i'm not inconsolable i'm not in the corner crying about it it's just like there's other people that want to buy these things and i just bought this entire seller's supply for the sake of opening it on stream did i need to buy all of them no probably not this stream probably would have been just as fun with half of those boxes okay so just a little bit like you know didn't need to do that i went a little hard there and now i feel a little gross for doing that because now maybe somebody that wanted those or maybe someone's parents were going to order from that seller for their kid or something now they can't because well now the grease king's sitting on all 34 boxes see so so it sounds like once again in the in the ickiness what we're thinking about is in a weird way your mind is kind of thinking about the possibility that through your indulgence you've deprived someone else of an opportunity that's definitely fair because there's there's only so many boxes right and i just took a huge chunk of them off the market so for the fans of the game that actually play the game and keep in mind i don't actually go out and battle they can't get those cards now now i have them and i will not sell them by the way you [ __ ] they're mine yeah so i once again i'm noticing a slight tension in terms of like the way that your mind measures you against others right that that doing something indulgence towards yourself and i'm not saying it's big or bad or like this is a smoking gun or anything but i think the interesting thing is as we develop as human beings the problems with our mind become more and more sudden they become smaller and and there's still sort of this tension where if i get something someone else doesn't it's a tiny tiny one tiny tiny none one and and you know small one nano nano babu means nano means small babu means baby and it's something that my kids say from time to time a tiny tiny baby so my younger kid talks about tiny tiny baby canora viruses which is why we can't go to the playground oh that's a good way of putting it yeah um but you know i i'd encourage you charlie to just keep track of that and just notice you know that in your mind for some reason when you buy something your mind has a script that turns on which starts thinking about how someone else could be deprived by what you've done whereas i doubt i mean when you say you've you know bought out a significant share of the supply of yugioh boxes i doubt that well at least on one website i can tell you you could probably find like a measurable graph somewhere that shows before i started streaming it and then after for rise of the duelist okay i think in total we've had like [ __ ] 60 boxes worth of that that we've opened on stream i wouldn't be surprised if konami just stops giving it to vendors and starts sending it right to me or something to make more money that way um do you see what i'm saying though about just sort of the automaticity of your thought process in terms of like doing something maybe indulging because you're you're not you know that's a sort of a situation where there's one toy there's two toys there's no toys and then you're like going into toys r us and you have the perception that you're kind of buying out like an entire shelf of something and then your mind sort of thing starts thinking about other people because you do seem like you care about other people and and there's just this little script i'd encourage you to just keep an eye on that um there may be something more to that can i tell you i'll go into a little bit more detail apologies if i'm kind of losing you am i losing you no absolutely not man absolutely so wild so the the other just thought that i have is that i think teaching indulgence to your kids is also pretty important i don't know if you're thinking about having kids you're planning on having kids or want kids or whatever but you know i think teaching temperance and restriction to your kids is important but also that sometimes they do get to come first is like something that i try to teach my kids is that sometimes they get to come first and i'm wondering you know i think part of what how can i say this i think you deserve more than you give yourself charlie hmm that's sweet i think yeah i mean i from everything i said i totally get where you'd come from here but i don't think that i deprive myself of anything for the sake of giving someone else anything i still think you know if there is something that i want and it is something just for me i don't really like hesitate to get it i don't think there's really been too many cases of where like you know i felt so guilty for giving myself something that someone else might not have it i don't think i've really suffered too much from that and even as a kid it's not like i felt that way either but from everything i've said i could totally get why maybe you'd feel that way i just don't see it personally yeah maybe i'm a little biased in it maybe my girlfriend would feel differently where she's like charlie you know you never really do this for yourself but for me i just don't get that feeling yeah so charlie i'm not so let me be a little bit even clearer so what i'm talking about is that i think you give yourself 99 of what you deserve what i'm talking about is a one percent here and the reason that i think that's important has nothing to do with like you depriving yourself it actually has to do it i realize i'm sort of stepping outside of my bounds here but i think it actually has to do with your spiritual growth so i i think that being able to acknowledge and give yourself like to be free from those thoughts those automatic thoughts that you're depriving someone i think is actually like a step forward for you and that doesn't have to do with actually buying more yu-gi-oh cards or buying less yu-gi-oh cards i'm not actually talking i'm not saying that you should give yourself more than you do what i'm talking about is your sense of deserving right that you should be comfortable and acknowledge that it's okay for you to indulge in that other people aren't that's what i'm talking about something that's very very subtle i don't think it's like an issue i don't think it impairs your function i don't think it's a problem does that make sense it's just the barrier of where you are based on our conversation no i totally get where you're coming from yeah that makes sense um yeah what do you how are we doing is this conversation okay to you yeah absolutely man i always enjoy these things like i said i watch your show i always like to hear these conversations so to take part in one i mean i think that's great yeah uh i find myself being curious about your girlfriend but also like have a bunch of questions about um i don't know how comfortable but then they're also kind of questions about like community and and thinking about like different kinds of community um thinking about like hate and toxicity um what do you think would be a better use of our time really i'm um this is your ship you're one i'm willing to go wherever you want to steer us i'm fine to talk about any of that if you want to talk about the toxic communities or something i mean that's been pretty prevalent these days so i'm fine with whatever okay i mean uh i need some kind of direction all right then uh i think it'd be beneficial if we talked about toxic communities then i think that's a something that's big right now something that's been big for a little while that why not talk about it absolutely so uh can you tell me a little bit about toxic communities and when you say it's been big for a while what do you mean by that okay so for uh we'll just use the the one everyone targets and i'm no exception i also talk about it live stream fails i know a lot of people like to target them for everything wrong with their stream and everything wrong with anything that when it comes to twitch in particular and i've definitely made that mistake before too where it's like livestream fails has done this this and this to these people and i just think that's probably the wrong approach to take it's a community full of a bunch of different people and i don't really think it's as toxic as a lot of people have made it out to be myself included it's just there's a very vocal minority of people that hijack something like that it's the same thing with chats like i don't think xqc's chat is the most toxic annoying place in the world it's just there are some people that take over and make that become the public perception what would your thoughts be on that do you really think that there is this overwhelmingly large number of people that say these bad things or feel this terrible way about people or is it just a small group that make it seem that way i think both are true so let me start by saying i didn't realize that live stream fails had a reputation for uh harboring toxicity i mean so when i browse lsf i tend to find it somewhat enjoyable and i thought everyone sort of knew that the point of lsf is that you take things out of context yeah well especially with yeah especially with your show that's become like a real big meme there is to take some clips out yeah so so so i mean i i actually i mean i think it's kind of funny i don't i don't feel like personally lsf or the people on lsf breed negativity i try to steer clear of my clips but i think it's just it's it's just funny right it's like it's clips first of all so you're not getting really a fair representation it's like it's like a meme generator and meme generators i don't think are going to be able to capture the truth um i do know that lsf has been i think a lot more mindful recently that despite you know when you generate memes sometimes you can go a little bit too far and that and and so it seems to me like the the community has been like the lsf modding community um you know i think has been making a lot of active changes which sound awesome to me in terms of uh i don't know like all the details but i i think they're becoming more mindful of what they create and what kind of effects that they have and they've been thinking about it more which seems to be like a step in the right direction um so that's what i'd say about lsf but i'm relatively new to twitch and also relatively new to lsf so i don't know if they've been worse in the past or you know what's been going on yeah i think the reputation i'm not like a frequent browser i'm only an occasional one i don't know what new modding things are implemented but i think the reason why lsf gets that reputation is because for a long time i don't know if this is still the case but the most popular posts were like here's salinity being [ __ ] terrible and then here's a clip of valenti from a year ago still being terrible and you'll have all these like old clips piled on top of one another targeting one person in particular showing their worst moments and then everyone in the comments is dog piling it and then maybe like five months down the line the perception changes and then everyone acts like well this is terrible you know no one should have ever said these things we never did this and then i wish people would stop generalizing lsf based on its top posts and stuff like that so they get this reputation for being toxic and then pretending they weren't and then they use that same line where it's like it's a 900 000 person community you can't target us based on a couple people even though it's their top post which means it's most representative of what people wanted what people were vibing with so i do think that that uh so going to like you know the vocal minority i think that it's very common that a community can be influenced by a vocal minority like in chat you'll get a couple of real trolls who you know speak more so i think that generally speaking majorities tend to be silent um and that minorities can oftentimes be vocal and so that is true but i i do think just like you said though charlie like i think that we can't hide behind that anymore because of things like when you upvote right like when when a when a post makes it to the top of live stream fails that's not a vocal minority that's the silent majority that is the action of the silent majority and so when that gets upvoted that actually is representative of your community um and i i think especially with some of these other you know toxic communities which i've recently learned about right so they're like i recently discovered that they're like um just kind of a funny meme story about this but like someone mentioned keemstar and i didn't know that that was a person when i first heard it like i thought because you know it's like a term right so like like if you say sky nut for example like i'm assuming that that's just something that someone made up right like it's not like a per because like you just can't [ __ ] tell like is moist critical a person or like it's just confusing anyway so i think that there are like communities right where where people create content that is geared towards attacking other people and to be fair those communities are gigantic and they get tons of viewership which says to me that this is not an issue of a vocal minority that there is actually a silent majority of people there and oddly enough you know i know this is going to sound weird i think we have to be careful about judging them because i still don't know why these people upvote what they do so so there's just sort of this sense that we call all of these people toxic and i'm sure that that's fair but you know i tend to do my best to not judge an entire person based on a particular action so i'm sure there are toxic people out there but if you have you know like a like an attack video youtube or whatever that has like five million subscribers like that's not a vocal minority right that that person's channel is successful because there's actually a lot of people out there who are experiencing a lot of something and i personally am curious like what they're experiencing like i don't know why these people upvote this stuff yeah i guess to bring it back into terms with livestream fails i i guess it would more be the sense of community right that would be my take where everyone's mad at this person so maybe somebody feels like well if they're mad there's a reason for it i should be mad even if maybe they don't feel that strongly they'll still chime and be like yo i don't like this yuck what the [ __ ] is that oh jesus upvote you know i don't really think it's a whole bunch of people that genuinely hate the person or anything like that they probably don't even know who it is they just see that this is popular i'm in this community pretty often which means i should feel the same way so i'm going to you know take on the same mindset you know what i mean i don't think it's necessarily always malicious where this person is trying to you know ruin the person that's being targeted they just feel like they're missing out by not being in the same line as everyone else in the community that they frequent i've i'm quite skeptical of that so let me ask you this charlie when you upvote something on reddit what's in your mind when you upvote it well this is you're not going to believe this but i've never upvoted anything on reddit in my life okay so that actually makes a lot of sense to me because i i think that your hypothesis about what is in someone's mind i wouldn't agree with that they're doing it just because other people are doing it yeah that's totally fair maybe i'm just out right wrong because i don't know like maybe they are really feeling this yeah so so as someone who upvotes a lot on reddit and comments rarely i upvote things that resonate with me in some way that i agree with and i downvote things that i don't agree with and don't resonate with the exception being i can resonate with something that i disagree with if the guise of the given the premise of the post so for example sometimes there are posts that are criticizing me that'll actually upvote because i think they bring up good criticisms so i can disagree with what they're saying but i i resonate with the post in some way and i think generally speaking when you think about upvote and downvote i never think about oh my god a bunch of people are upvoting this i better upvote it too i've never experienced that now that could be happening subconsciously but usually i tend to upvote things that i find like resonate with me in some way if i find it funny i'm gonna upvote it i don't care that other people find it funny i think it it it connects with you and that's what happens with social media and like likes and dislikes is sure i'm sure there's a peer pressure element to it but i think the interesting thing about social media is that they've given us a chance like what rises to the top certainly has issues of popularity but i think that there's like some content that people resonate with right like let's think about yugioh like some there's something that when people watch you open yu-gi-oh facts something about them like when they see your nostalgia when they see your excitement your hope it resonates with them and it's like man i remember opening yu-gi-oh packs hell yeah i'll put this [ __ ] you know like let's see if he does it cause i i know what starlight rare starlight something what's that yeah what's it called starlight starlight rare starlight rare so like a starlight like they remember hunting for the starlight rare and so it connects with them and i i think the internet is is about actually i know this sounds bizarre but i think it's actually about connection i think what social media twitch i mean twitch is about connection it's about connecting with the person that you're watching the person that you're watching resonating with you if we think about our stream that's also about connection so we've grown because the people who come on here say and do things that people feel connected to yeah i can totally agree with that so i guess mainly the reason why i was feeling that way when it comes to something like lsf and things rising to the top and maybe not being you know maliciously upvoting something bad is because you can see it a lot in a chat right where if somebody posts some kind of copy pasta or you know some assy art picture of titties or the hydra dick you'll immediately see you haven't seen the well i don't even want to attempt it because i hate that kind of [ __ ] i don't like spam but when somebody does like a copy pasta or a hydro dick or three titty spam thing you'll see 50 people immediately start posting the same thing so i would i would imagine that that extends to other platforms so when you see something on reddit where it rises pretty quickly you'll typically would at least in my perspective you'd see other people just hop on it like well they're doing it i'm going to do it i'll upload this as well and i don't necessarily care too much about what this person did but everyone else is doing it so i'm probably just gonna upload it too yeah so i think there's certainly a mob mentality yeah but but i don't think the mob mentality is the same as peer pressure i think it's like more instinctual right so like reddit becomes like a school of fish that certainly like one fish freaks out and goes this way and then they're like one bird you know if you see a bunch of birds roosting and then one bird jumps out and starts flying all the other birds jump out and start flying so certainly is i think a group think aspect to it but i i think by the way is it a hydro dick or hydra dick hydra and i want to apologize to your mods i just made their job so much [ __ ] harder by even mentioning that sorry hydra dick yeah like oh like the greek monster yeah it's like just a bunch of bunch of dicks yeah okay i mean they're dicks in all shapes and sizes on the internet you'd be surprised um anyway yeah so so i i do think though that that i'm not so sure that it's a vocal minority charlie because i think that you know you do have entire communities that are very successful that are built on attacking other people what do you think about that you i mean that definitely exists i mean yeah if you can see that especially there's entire channels based around it on youtube i mean for better for worse sometimes it's legitimate criticism or sometimes it's pointing out something someone did to make jokes about it and just have fun about it i think there's definitely different levels of it different tiers where there's someone that's hateful about it like they hate this person and they're just gonna keep insulting them maybe there's nothing constructive and maybe there's nothing entertaining about it and i think that's the worst level where it's there for hate to fuel this hate machine where i think in today's landscape of social media people like to be angry more than they like to be happy i think in general scheme of things people like to feel like there's a common enemy that they can all unite against and hate against and channels that simply aim to fuel that to give them someone to hate without anything constructive or entertaining i think that's probably the worst level of it i don't necessarily feel that about live stream fails in particular i feel that's more here's just some drama we can all rally behind and maybe just mindlessly upvote but i definitely think on other platforms and on youtube there's definitely channels that do that but on twitch i don't see too much of just hate for the sake of hate i i feel it's more just here's drama let's just treat it like a you know reality tv show okay so can you tell me a little bit about like how youtube and twitch and their communities and the level of toxicity is different yeah so i i actually think leafy made a good point with this when before he got banned the on twitch everyone's really kind of looking out for each streamer you know if a streamer is being attacked nine times out of ten you'll see other streamers come to their aid on youtube if someone's being attacked it's the trendy thing to immediately hop on and attack that person as well i mean you saw it with james charles you saw it with pretty much everyone and i'm guilty with the james charles thing in particular but in youtube it's people eating each other right and i'm not saying guilty with the james charles thing like i did anything bad i just meant like i talked about it but on youtube when someone's james charles he's a big makeup youtuber he had like a big scandal and stuff and everyone was talking about it but it turned out it's all just a bunch of [ __ ] but on youtube it's it's best for a lot of these channels to immediately hop on when someone's getting attacked when they're vulnerable because that's where all the views are for those people like you saw it with pokeman every youtuber was making five videos about pokeman because leafy made a video about pokemane that's how it's treated there that's the normal culture of youtube on twitch if that happens from what i've seen for my two years on here when someone's getting attacked like that other streamers aren't super quick to immediately start attacking that person they'll typically wait a lot of times they'll defend the streamer it's it's a very different perspective a very different approach when someone's getting attacked on the platforms youtube it'll be like a dog pile like everyone's trying to desperately recover recover a fumble in football but on twitch it's people feel more connected as like a community that's the biggest difference has that affected you how long have you been on youtube 14 years okay so like like have you have have the platform sort of affected you differently no i wouldn't say so i not not me personally but just i can definitely see the differences it's not something that i've been uh victim to or something that i've really been like in the [ __ ] mix of or anything but it's something since i've been on both ever since i've been on that for so long and then coming over here i can immediately recognize the big difference between the two when it comes to that and and do you have to deal with like hate oh i mean everyone does right i mean that's that comes with putting yourself out there everyone has to deal with some level people not liking you or lying about you or something like that that unfortunately does come with the territory and it's something that i've accepted a long time ago so it's not something that bothers me it's not anything that i you know how do you how do you let it not bother you how do you do that i think that's people yeah it's gonna be different for everyone uh it's just a matter of just being there for so long i think at the end of the day it's important to recognize that when somebody's saying these things you know it's not the worst thing in the world it's somebody you don't know it's a stranger you don't know their situation it's just you know it is what it is they felt this strongly and there's nothing you can do to change their mind at the end of the day it's out of your hands and what makes me feel better about it is like you know what i don't know that person they don't really know me they didn't like this about me and that's fine i just let sleeping dogs lie in chat if someone's talking some [ __ ] i'll obviously joke around and start talking [ __ ] back at them that's totally different that's just more banter between two people or sometimes it gets a little more hostile just but that's just for the sake of having a little fun conversation or a little debate but when it comes to like actually getting under my skin it doesn't really anymore and for people that are new to the internet i can absolutely see it really getting them because it gets vicious especially with the way twitter is right now it's like they need everyone to be this perfect robot and i think the sooner you accept that you know you're never going to be perfect not everyone's going to like you the better off you're going to be and getting thicker skin when it comes to people that are either just being mean for the sake of being mean or just lying for the sake of lying for drama it's just a matter of being there going through it and recognizing that it's not the worst thing in the world when we say where the way twitter is nowadays what do you mean by that well you'll see it all the time i don't know how often you engage with that platform the less the better so if you're not on there often big congratulations that [ __ ] is [ __ ] miserable figure it out yeah it's terrible like when i say with the way twitter is if a youtuber so much is like had a wet fart on a camera 11 years ago it's gonna get dug up and it's going to be a controversy if you've made an edgy tweet at any point over the last decade it's going to be found and you're going to get [ __ ] for it and that's just kind of the way it is because like i said i think people really just want to find things to be mad about when it comes to internet people or just in general so the easiest target is content creators because everything they do is public people will constantly tweet everything they're feeling show everything that they're feeling post everything so they can easily find something that gets upset about and at some point you have to accept look someone's gonna be mad about something i've done and i can't change that i i know what kind of person i am it's not what they're saying it is it's really just not anything to this level and i just need to be okay with that going forward at least that's kind of the mentality i've adopted i i don't view it as the worst thing there is when it's one or two people on twitter that are like charlie made this tweet 11 years ago where he said [ __ ] i don't even know i don't tweet that much but he said the chupacabra is real because it [ __ ] his grandfather but charlie's grandfather has been dead for four years he lied to us the chupacabra didn't have sex with his grandfather you know i'm not gonna be like wow [ __ ] now they're mad at me for lying i'm not a liar you know yeah bad example but you get what i'm saying i couldn't think of any yeah no i think chupacabra necrophilia is a great example of something to dig up well to be fair i did lie about that i'll set the record straight the chupacabra is most likely still a lie he never had sex with my grandfather i'll just say it now so charlie like what do we do about this that's a great [ __ ] question man because it's it's like just the general mindset right you can't change what people want you can't change what people have fun engaging with right people love to be mad and they love to have someone to be mad at so what like how do you really fix that you you can't it's what people have decided they personally like and i don't really know what you do about it maybe you have a better suggestion but for me i just don't really know what you'd do for it yeah so i i i don't know i i think there's a lot we can do to be honest um i i think uh and and this could probably i mean this actually probably due to my relative naivete it's actually one of my arguably strengths and weaknesses um i remember when i was in training sort of having a couple of patients that were sort of like lost causes kind of thing and i i sort of take on lost causes um because i'm in a sense arguably just too stupid to realize that if a dozen people have worked with this person before and they haven't made any progress i i don't know why i think i would be different i don't think it's really arrogant but i tend to take on challenges that many of my colleagues sometimes wouldn't or you know would kind of say like hey you're not going to get anywhere with this person people have tried um and so the first thing is that there could be like sort of a bias there where you know you kind of say how do you change someone's natural predisposition to want to hate more than be happy feels like an unsolvable problem right yeah absolutely and and so but but in my experience oftentimes the things that keep us stuck in life are the things that keep us from moving forward is because our diagnosis makes it unsolvable so the first issue is like if you change the diagnosis you may have a treatment sometimes the reason that actually in fact if you look at in medicine you know why don't treatments work the most common reason that a treatment doesn't work is because the diagnosis is wrong it's like a no-brainer if someone comes in and um you know gets diagnosed with depression and it turns out that they like their the reason they have trouble getting out of bed all the time is because they have cancer like that's like it's like night and day can look like something like it's you can ask someone hey do you have trouble getting out of bed do you feel like doing anything do you you've lost weight um you know you don't enjoy the things that you usually used to enjoy you feel guilty because you're not able to work and you're not able to like be there for your kids like you can check all the boxes for depression the actual diagnosis is cancer then you'd start that person on an antidepressant medication and then like the antidepressant medication doesn't work then they go see another psychiatrist they go see another psychiatrist and at the end of the day like the problem as you framed it is the problem itself so if your question is how do you get people to stop preferring hate over happiness that's tough to answer but even then have we really tried right which is kind of interesting have you tried to take a single person and try to understand you know why do you hate instead of being happy when people post yeah you want to say something i was gonna say yeah that's a really interesting perspective like maybe because there is people that'll just watch someone to hate watch them right like i know it's become kind of a meme because train will be like you know all these hate watchers dude and [ __ ] like that but you have there are people that do that right a hundred percent so i guess understanding what the purpose is and what they get out of that would be kind of interesting to hear yeah i've ever tried or i know anyone that has so so i think one of the failures we've made as a community is what we do is we call those people toxic and for understandable reasons we just ban them but what we're actually doing is like judging an entire world of people as toxic without ever trying to understand like where does this come from and and recently you know it's kind of interesting so this may be a little bit of a hot button topic but with a lot of the me too stuff that's come out we've really tried very hard to support people who are victims of of inappropriate behavior or sexual assault or things like that but there's a there's a part of me that actually like wonders sometimes like i you know i've worked in a prison and stuff before and and so i remember when i was working in a prison sort of asking myself the question when did this person become a predator and when did this person become a criminal and what i find myself thinking is that for some people honestly like they're straight up like sociopaths and they were sort of like born that way and they had like behaviors at the age of seven or eight that were was like very very problematic but i found that for most people you know i have trouble accepting that like a nine year old kid or 11 year old kid or 13 year old kid as a predator and then something happens in our community right they grow up in a particular way like in some point they become insults and then they become predators or whatever but there's still like i i don't i haven't given up on altering the course of those people because i've i've worked with people whose courses have been altered like i work with some pro gamers and it's been interesting to talk to them about when they were 15 and they were like big right like so some of these pro gamers get really good at a really young age and like how other people in the scene went out of their way to like teach them that some of the things that they were doing or saying were like not okay and you know there were like 15 year olds that were you know saying really inappropriate racial slurs and like homophobic slurs or whatever like in chat because that's what you do and then i remember talking to one of these guys and he was saying that yeah like someone sat me down and said like hey you can't be doing that anymore and his initial response is why it's just words and i get the sense that there's like there's a lack of understanding and then there's like a lack of trying to explain to people that this is a problem and when we label something as toxic i mean it makes sense in terms of like banning people because like you said there's sort of a contagion effect of memeing and toxicity right it's like it's contagious so you gotta ban the people from the chat but at the same time i think part of the reason that we haven't been able to figure out a solution is because we've never tried to we've never diagnosed anything it's like that person is sick let's like shove them off to the side and keep them in a hut and never use a stethoscope never listen to their lungs never look at their eyes look in their mouth let's not try to diagnose anything so my sense is that you know we still have i mean there's some actually like big things in theory i don't know how we go about doing that but sort of exploring toxicity i also think that what we've also seen on twitch i think this is a good example is that there are toxic communities and they're also wholesome communities and that there are people who actually are members of both so we see that a lot on our discord where like we ban people from our discord for being toxic and then we actually recently did something where we like got them on stream and we tried to get their perspective like what's your understanding of why you were banned what did you do why did you do it and it's really cool because when you take these people that have been banned and are viewed as quote unquote toxic that once again twitch chat loves to hate hate on when you expose their human side i think five out of the six people on our band appeal stream we just we actually left it up to twitch and we said chat you guys decide whether we unban them or not and five five out of six uh five out of six of the people got forgiveness and we're allowed back on the server gotta be it's gotta be [ __ ] terrible being that one guy that didn't yeah x-man four-man yeah i know so i i feel for that dude right so i i think though at the same time like you know five out of six like i was expecting because you know twitch loves i mean this is our perception so i was about to say something which i think is a false statement i was about to say twitch loves pitchforks youtube loves pitchforks we love pitchforks lsf loves pitchforks but i think that statement in and of itself is like not expecting more and i think one of the biggest things that i've seen is when you expect very little from another human being your expectations are met and when you expect a lot surprisingly your expectations can often be met and so i choose to have a little bit more faith in humanity and and not to say that you don't have faith in human i think you have a lot of faith in humanity um but i i'm not willing to kind of give up and i don't think we should because i don't think we've really like really honestly tried like i don't know i mean we have tried a lot of people have tried you know the the the victims of the hate have tried to speak against it in some way and generally speaking it doesn't work but i i think we got to figure out you know some for some of these people like who do you think or represe and i i don't mean to be putting a target on your back so don't answer this question if you feel like it is putting a target on your back but who do you think has like toxic communities like who should we be talking to who should we try to understand presuming that they're worth understanding that's a tough question to answer i can't really off the top of my head think of like a toxic community but i can think of a really good community that i think most people would agree we would agree with me on which is moon moon's community moon moon has a really really good community like i think most people could probably agree with that when it comes to a toxic one i can't really think of like a toxic community on twitch i mean if you want to like broaden the definition someone in the chat mentions the smash community and that's fair you know with everything that's gone on there a lot of terrible stuff but i don't think as a whole everyone that plays smash is a toxic predator [ __ ] or anything you know what i mean so for me it's hard to like pinpoint a toxic community one that exists just to insult everyone else and [ __ ] on everyone else's fun or anything what about youtube um that's a little tougher to answer because there's just is so many communities out there but if you don't mind real quick do you mind if i run to the bathroom then no no okay i'll be right back walls so that's how we that's how we propagate some of this this hydratic toxicity right so as when i call it out it increases it no but seriously like what do you guys think i mean do you think it's okay to call out a community for being toxic or naming them that way so how do you guys think that the how do you think that the members of those communities perceive themselves i mean so people are talking about yeah do it to them let them defend themselves i i don't think that's the right approach right so i think that's what creates this problem is that it's an issue of like attack and defense as opposed to like understanding and and like you know trying to foster some amount of cooperation all right i'm back in it yeah so uh charlie i i was asking chat in the meantime like what do you think the people who are members of what we describe as toxic communities quote unquote what do you think they feel do they view themselves as toxic or how do they view themselves okay i think that's a good question so in my perspective i think a hundred percent well okay i can't say 100 but i think an overwhelmingly major majority would probably say that yeah i'm being toxic i don't think anyone has this delusion where it's like no no this isn't toxic this is actually constructive i actually think a lot of people embrace it i think that's gonna become a trendy thing to do for some people be like oh i'm an [ __ ] but it's just who i am you know you'll see that in a twitter bio just an [ __ ] you know that for some reason that's become normalized to just kind of be an [ __ ] yep so i don't think anyone's gonna try and hide that but yeah so i it's interesting so i saw a lot of people say like righteous what do you think about that oh there's a hundred oh man you'll see that all over reddit there's some people that are like i am the hero i am the protagonist of this anime i'm fighting this evil streamer or this evil twitter post look at me uh please send me your thank yous and the dms and stuff a hundred percent there are people that have this delusion but i don't think the majority would i think most people recognize yeah i just don't like i just don't like this person i'm being [ __ ] about it i don't think there's so many people out there believing that there's some medieval hero riding in on horseback to save everyone from this evil post interesting okay i i would have had it as flipped really yeah so i think most human beings tend to do things that that what i would call or ego syntonic so ego syntonic versus ego dystonic means aligned with who you think you are versus not aligned with who you think you are so a good example of this in psychiatry is like a lot of people talk about people who are quote-unquote ocd that's not ocd so there are two things one is ocd which is obsessive compulsive disorder another thing is obsessive-compulsive personality disorder or ocpd people who are ocpd are control freaks they really get they love to be in control they love to like organize things they get bent out of shape when things don't go their way but that's a very ego syntonic thing they don't think that they're wrong they don't view themselves as control freaks they think that everyone else is like should like you should put the dishes where they go not over here they go over there so that's very ego-syntonic it's aligned with their identity as a person the interesting thing is people with true ocd it's very egotistic they know that it's ridiculous that they have to turn on the light seven switch the light switch seven times every time they walk into the room they know it's idiotic they know there's no reason to do it and yet they can't help themselves it actually causes them to stress but they have to engage in the compulsions or the obsessions anyway so in one hand like ocd is actually very ego dystonic where people don't like that they have to do these things and ocpd or like what we think of as yeah i'm super ocd that's just who i am that's very ego syntonic right so i'm just an [ __ ] that's who i am is a very ego syntonic way of thinking it's like it actually causes that person no distress that they're an [ __ ] so my sense is that generally speaking people don't behave in a way that is first of all ego-dystonic so they believe in a way that feels aligned with who they are as a person and that righteousness is very ghost and tonic and i think is very very common um especially on the internet where you have people like putting other people in their place yeah maybe just maybe my perspective is a little distorted because of twitter in particular because on there it is so common for people for people to just outright be like yup i'm an [ __ ] i made this account just to be an [ __ ] and i'm just just going to keep you know doing these things you know being an [ __ ] so maybe it's not as common as i think it is maybe it's just a confirmation bias where i'm just seeing it more often because of that so maybe you're absolutely right i have no idea well interestingly enough what you said actually makes me more inclined to take your viewpoint not less because what you're saying is if it's based on twitter that sounds to me like you actually you have real data whereas i have hypotheses well i mean it's all anecdotal right like i don't have actual data it's just what i see when i go on twitter and i see these people like when you see something bad happen you'll have a bunch of people making all these edgy remarks or making all these like terrible things they say about the person and then you go on their their profile and that's all they do that's their entire online identity and they embrace it they wear it like a badge of honor like a little boy scout badge or something so i just see it a lot on there and i think maybe that's just kind of distorted the way i view how common it is yeah so the interesting thing is i wonder if i talk to one of those people who describe themselves as an [ __ ] i don't think they feel like an [ __ ] i think they feel righteous and they recognize disagree okay yeah i really feel like if let's say you brought someone on your show that you know recently made some kind of terrible remark about chadwick boseman or something i think if you brought them on their show on your show they would still keep this persona up maybe they might not actually be a genuine degenerate [ __ ] but i feel like given any internet attention or any anonymity they're going to continue to be that way i don't think they try and hide it i think they'd embrace it they'd feel like the joker from the batman series i completely agree with you but now let's let's so i agree with you i think they'd maintain the persona but the persona that you maintain in the feelings that you have are oftentimes in fact usually in harsh conflict a persona even if we think about the word persona a persona is a false self that we think about just the definition right it's a false self so if a persona is a false self and you're saying this person would maintain the persona that implies that what they are on the inside is not what they're portraying ergo they would not actually feel like [ __ ] the [ __ ] is the front that they put on because there's something else underneath yeah and that's entirely possible a hundred percent it's just hard to know if it even is a persona right like i say that having the belief that maybe they're not this piece of [ __ ] but maybe they just are maybe yes i mean i i think i i tend to be curious i think we've had actually a lot of really interesting um explorations with people that i think are generally viewed as toxic so we had a couple of interesting streams with women like female gamers and then also like women who get hit on by men online um and the really interesting thing at the end of both of those streams is the women were like yeah we'd love to see you do this with a group of the people on the other side of the table like find a group of toxic male gamers and just ask them like why are you guys toxic in games or people who you know will send like inappropriate messages to women online or i mean a lot of times what they were complaining about is not even like inappropriate messages it's sort of like persistence and kind of like guilt-tripping and [ __ ] like that that that people do they're like oh you're not yeah yeah that's become super common right like you see that on twitch all the time like i've been subbed for this long and you don't even remember my name it's like you don't care why you know don't you know i'm lonely and i'm here for this and that like that's something super common these days interesting i'd love to know why people do that because you know where do they get the expectation from right and then that makes that puts all the onus on the streamer to be like feeling bad for not knowing all these things about this person and i think that's a terrible thing as well it's not like your traditional toxic male to female streamer thing like show me your tits [ __ ] you know i've been subbed but it's just as you know it's just as annoying and just as frustrating right to have this person that's been there for so long start blaming you for not knowing everything about their life what's frustrating about that it shouldn't be a streamer's responsibility to kind of be like the mom and dad or the girlfriend to someone that's been subbed for a long time if you know if they don't have an interest in doing that at the end of the day the streamers there to put on a show and be entertaining and just be there for somebody not necessarily to be this pillar in their life and to make them feel bad for not doing that i think is just as toxic does that happen to you no not really i make it pretty clear with my community like this kind of parasocial relationship isn't a healthy thing so i don't really encourage it and i think people understand that like i know a lot of my chats names because i'm good with names and i make an effort to at least know what's going on with some of the regulars because i treat chat like friends i think that's you know i think that's good to have a community that you can joke around with know a little bit about but at the end of the day i'm not their mom i'm not their dad i'm not their either babysitter or anything i'm just there to have some fun with them talk about some [ __ ] joke around and i no one's ever made me feel bad for not knowing certain things about their life or forgetting something but i know it does happen in other streams you see it on twitter all the time where a streamer will post something from someone that's been subbed for 21 months who's now you know threatening to kill themselves because the streamer hasn't acknowledged them in the last two resubs or some crazy [ __ ] yeah i think that too is something that is worth understanding because i think we sort of get yeah i i don't know exactly what to do about that but i i think it's kind of interesting because you sort of say you show up and you treat them like friends and at the same time you're pretty clear about the boundaries of the parasocial relationship and i think one of the the interesting actually one of the advantages of twitch i think part of what makes twitch an awesome platform is that people do feel connected you know they yeah there's no yeah i want to make it clear like there's nothing wrong with like connecting with a streamer that's a lot of times how you find the community like i mentioned moon moon i guarantee most of the people in moon moon's chat feel a connection with him but i don't think it's to this level where they're going to be aggressive or angry if moon moon doesn't acknowledge their sub or maybe forgets their name or something like that or doesn't see every message but that does happen and that's an equally toxic thing what do we do about that oh i have no idea that's just such an individual level i don't know how you teach that i think it's just people not understanding you know social relationships right it's people that don't have a real world experience to know what's acceptable and what's not acceptable when it comes to a stranger and at the end of the day it really is still a stranger you don't know the streamer personally you don't know everything about them so it's just someone you're familiar with and it's all about knowing when is the right time to try and connect if you want to and knowing when you probably shouldn't do that and i think a lot of people don't have that because people grow up with so much access to the internet that they just lose that ability to find these things yeah i i do wonder if there's something so it's interesting we've done actually like a couple of trainings for content creators before um where we sort of teach them actually how to set boundaries because i i wonder if some of this stuff is actually just so it sounds like you set a pretty firm limit with your community and your community knows what to expect in terms of their you're there to hang out you're there to you know provide entertainment and that you're not their mom or dad i i i was really surprised and in some sense heartened to find that a lot of streamers do actually go out of their way to try to like support and connect with their community actually especially some of the smaller streams um yeah and and that it's interesting because i can see how that could create the feelings that we're talking about but also i think is like not not in and of itself a bad thing i think it's just about limit setting and boundaries but in and of itself is not like a bad thing that streamers and communities are connected yeah i don't think it's like evil i don't think streamers that try and form this bond between community and themselves or you know dumb or bad people for doing that it's just when that when it becomes this level of unhealthiness you have to understand some individuals aren't going to understand where's too far where that line is and you'll have them having their entire [ __ ] week ruined if you miss their resub or something and it's not the streamer's fault right it's just this person doesn't really understand it so it's just knowing the boundaries and making it pretty clear on you know the expectation i guess yeah having a hard time phrasing that in a way that sounds cohesive no i thought she did great i think it's you know you like you said i think it's about expectation you use that word several times and where people get that expectation i'm also hearing from your words or sort of your statements that like somewhere along the way like interactions on the internet sometimes people aren't don't understand like they just haven't been taught like what is appropriate or not appropriate which also sort of makes sense because no one teaches you internet etiquette right you get taught actually like by your parents and other people how to behave around other human beings no one teaches you that on the internet yeah and if you don't have that experience around human beings like you're kind of [ __ ] right yeah you're just out here blind with your in your hand like you don't know how to act and i feel bad for those people you really do and i think that kind of goes back to like toxic communities because i think in a lot of situations like we don't understand or maybe they don't understand i think it's a little bit arrogant to assume that these people aren't educated and we are more educated and more enlightened um but at the same time i do wonder i think a lot of this me too stuff is like frankly a lot of it sounds like you know dudes who just don't know how to interact with women for the most part some of it is like malicious and predatory but i think a lot of it it's just you know like dudes just don't know how to act like they don't know how to talk they don't know how to interpret signals they don't they just don't know i don't know what you think about that but i what i only know the smash stuff and as far as smash goes like that's that's more than just not knowing how to act that's some terrible like degenerate [ __ ] uh so i i'm not familiar with the smash stuff what oh man you might want to save yourself a headache like every bad [ __ ] thing you can imagine was happening in the smash community i know there definitely is sometimes someone's just like post this twit longer about maybe a bad date they had with somebody online and i could totally see why that would be uncomfortable but it's not like the person was evil just because you know they don't know how to talk in a first date i definitely get that but then there's also of course the really malicious predators that do terrible [ __ ] [ __ ] oh wow i didn't realize things were that bad but okay yeah it was the smash community is it's it's in shambles right now dr k it's it's uh it's it's rough okay maybe maybe we'll look into that and see if there's some way we can help yeah i mean maybe that'd be a good community to look into right now i mean they've gone through a lot of what we've already talked about right like they've had a lot of those things pop up and they've had a lot of cases where a lot of people that looked up to these streamers turns out the streamers were doing terrible things so maybe like getting involved in that community to see where to go from there what to what to fix going forward because they could use some [ __ ] guidance they had the worst ideas they so a lot of it had to do with like you know child predators that a lot of the people in the smash community were kids and one of their suggestions was to mark kids with a colored band and an x on their hands at all in-person events so that way older people would know not to try and [ __ ] them like they have the worst ideas on how to handle this [ __ ] it's terrible yeah so they could use some guidance and it's a it's rough i mean yeah i don't even know what to think about that i i guess like because we do have like you know we do have like you know you a wristband or whatever for like alcohol at parties or whatever right so i mean it's not it's not that crazy of an idea i think the way that you frame it though is speaks that oh no no no it wasn't that it was like we are going to give children a rape whistle and if their parents aren't holding their hands they're not allowed in here because we can't trust our adults in this community yeah right so i think that's that's awful because it's sort of you know the solution there is not to do something with the kid i think it's to do something with the adult 100 yeah i think that would be the rational approach so charlie i'm noticing we've kind of meandered around a little bit is there something else that you want to talk about or i mean we sort of talked about toxicity talked a little bit about how you're a warm and fuzzy human being nothing in particular man i just want to compliment you on the good work you do if you don't mind me sucking your dick a little bit like i think you do a great job i think it's really important work you do before i maybe i'm wrong but before you came along on twitch i don't think anyone was ever even really talking about a lot of the subjects that you like to cover and i think that's an important thing to do to both help improve the community around and just get people thinking about themselves and the platform they engage on so just great work man yeah man thank you very much i you know i appreciate the the appreciation um i that actually means a lot charlie because i respect you a lot i respect your thoughts i think you're a good thinker like comment on things like that's what i was saying i recently discovered your content i really like the way that you think and you break apart problems actually um the way that you go through and analyze things so to have to get your seal of approval actually means a lot to me um and yeah thank you very much man well hey anytime man i appreciate the kind words i think this has all been a really great conversation and who knows maybe we'll see something great come from it you know maybe down the line you do talk to some of these communities and these people and we get a little better understanding of exactly what goes on and why some of these behaviors like hate watching and just generally feeling better being mad as opposed to happy persists yeah like i think that'd be very interesting to learn about charlie can i ask you one last question and then we can talk about meditation for a second absolutely so my question is um so what can i do what should i do and you don't have to answer it now um but but i i you know so i like i said i appreciate your ability to look at problems and analyze them and i think if you've watched some of our content and and the positive feedback you've given to me so you know these people you know the youtube community better than i do you know the twitch community better than i know you know the twitter community better than i do if you were to think about me as a resource to deploy which is really what i'm asking like what what should i do man that is that is a tough one um i guess what i would start with if i if i was to launch the icbm known as dr k yes i would immediately start on twitter that would be the first place i'd target because i think a lot of the general like mindset the mind frame of a lot of these people is born from twitter twitter i think is just that the past time a lot of people take where when they're not doing something twitter's just so easily accessible easily digestible that they will just find these things and get locked in this echo chamber and these psycho fans and they'll just start to adopt these beliefs and these mindsets where i'm happier when i'm mad i like to be mad and i just want to stay mad and i think getting to the root of where that kind of comes from in maybe a group i don't know what group you'd start with but maybe like a prominent group where this seems to be common and figure out why they prefer that as opposed to some better content where they're not [ __ ] fuming nine hours a day because i mean people treat twitter like it's a job they'll be on twitter for nine hours spamming all kinds of [ __ ] replying back and forth you'll it's not uncommon to see an account have 200 000 tweets right like why waste their time doing that what do they personally get out of it do they feel fulfilled are they even happy doing it what's the point that would be where i'd start i wouldn't know where to start but the target would be twitter for me okay so you feel like twitter is is where you know the the nexus of the tumor is oh i i would say that is the genesis of a lot of the the the things we're seeing and talking about when it comes to like toxicity and like general [ __ ] weird loser mentalities not to call everyone a loser but you know what i'm saying i think that's where it kind of stems from is they see these posts have so many likes and so much engagement that are really negative and so they'll start doing it maybe to get the same fulfillment i don't know i can only speculate interesting that's not what i was expecting um you know i had thought that that maybe what i should focus on is people who dedicate themselves to making negative content so the content as opposed to the audience yeah so like thinking about what motivates someone to make uh a certain kind of content but which i guess sort of qualifies as twitter right because in twitter what happens is you have the audience making masses of content so the the content creator and the audience become one in twitter so now that i'm thinking about it actually sort of makes sense because twitter is the place where everyone makes content right yeah like i mean the content is every post right so yeah so so it's one where the audience eats and you get to see the audience in a way that oftentimes you don't on other platforms um interesting cool man thank you very much yeah of course and my apologies in advance if you do choose twitter you're gonna have a [ __ ] headache man like that is that is rough yeah we'll see right um yeah and and are you interested in in the deal talking about meditation for a minute or like learning how to meditate if you don't already sure yeah i'd love to hear more about it i've never done it myself i tried it when i was in college once or twice but that's a that's a very hard field to kind of master and figure out sure so um can i think for a second yeah by all means man no rush actually if you don't mind give me just one more second sure i'll be right back okay chat we're gonna do something a little bit more advanced today okay all right i'm sorry about that no problem man how is that you did you get your starlight rare i wish i wish i just pulled it out over there believe it or not i actually have three of the second most valuable starlight rare there is there's more than one starlight rare oh yeah there's like five per every three sets or something like that oh interesting i thought so um charlie what's your understanding of what meditation is the way i understand meditation is it's a short period of time where you clear every single thought and problem for pretty much as long as you can and just kind of be right you just kind of sit on your own without any kind of thoughts or anything weighing you down more or less it's basically just a clean slate for x amount of time sort of that's how i understood it okay that's that's actually like a pretty good starting point so one of the goals of meditation is to shut off your mind so in the east they believe that you as a person as a being are not your mind in the same way that we're not our body right so like if i like this is my hand i even describe it with the word my which presumes for a moment that it's an object that is not me so my pen my hand my finger my fingernail so you don't right so use the possessive the interesting thing is we also so people generally speaking know that they're not their body like in theory if i were to have an accident and lose a finger i wouldn't be like changed as a person the like i may change in some ways like it i may sort of suffer some sense of identity problem or something like that i may mourn i may feel like i'm deformed or all kinds of things can happen but at the end of the day like me still exists and so the interesting thing is that most of us sort of understand that our body is just our body and that we're not necessarily our body somewhat connected of course related interconnected it becomes more difficult when it when it comes to the mind because we tend to think that our mind is us so our sense of like self-worth our sense of identity um you know sort of being a neat or you know being successful or not successful being a streamer being a gamer being a doctor call it whatever you want to we these are all the identifications of the mind we tend to think that that's who we are so meditation is actually the systematic process of trying to discover the true self which is actually outside of body and outside of mind and as a result of that we sort of get to practices that do what you kind of describe which is to shut off your mind or to exist with awareness outside of mind with me so far okay i'm feeling you so what i'm going to teach you today is actually like a practice that i think is pretty useful for addiction i don't think you're addicted to anything but it's just something that i've been i've been sort of teaching a couple of the same things and i actually think that i know this is going to sound bizarre charlie but i think you're spiritually a little bit you're not actually a noob when it comes to spirituality so i'm going to teach you a slightly more rigorous practice if that's okay true so what i'm going to tell you is is first of all the first step of meditation is the concentration of awareness it is letting your awareness or your attention go where you want it to and if there is one basic weakness that we have as a society it is not being able to control our attention so a lot of people say that i'm not disciplined right so what discipline really is is it's the focus of attention it's not it's really not anything else it's just putting your attention where you want it to go so if i sit down in front of a book and i say it's time to study and then i point my attention at this book and then i say i'm going to read these words and then what happens is our mind wanders all over the place right and so then i'm not able to study and what we perceive is discipline is someone who can actually control their attention i'm going to think about and focus the attention of my mind or being where i want it when i want it and it's that basic skill which separates like people who are successful from people who aren't so the next thing to think about is what does pull our attention in different places so the most common thing that pulls our attention in different places are the sense organs or the indriyas so case in point we were talking about earlier like if we use the word hydra dick then a lot of people see that word they hear that word in their mind pay attention right so i'm tempting them so i want you to notice because i'm trying to evoke it at them now everyone is thinking about that and wanting to type that so already what i've done is i've used a sensory input and their mind's attention is automatically going in that direction so notice that right so all it takes is the senses to control the attention of your mind so we can think about that in terms of like oh if you see a yu-gi-oh pack or i talk to you about a yu-gi-oh pack this is something you're hearing something you're seeing and then your mind's attention goes to the yu-gi-oh pack i smell alcohol i see people drinking i smell like a burger cooking or like a hot dog vendor and then my attention goes there and then my behavior follows my attention with me yeah makes sense so what i'm going to teach you today is the practice of separating your indriyas or your sense organs from your attention i'm going to teach you a practice so that you can literally learn how to control your mind and what we're going to do is separate the indirect from the sense organ in a very very simple sense so what i'm going to do is show you something called the sri yantra okay so this is a little bit it has a religious background but you guys don't have to worry about the religious part of it it really doesn't matter um this is uh so let me just think about how to do this okay so y'all aren't going to be able to see moist's face because i can't figure out how to do that and you can't see anything yet right me i see the the screen the the red okay so this is the sri yantra okay so this is what i want you to do i'm going to zoom in a little bit okay so can you see the dot in the middle yes okay so what i want you to do and so that i want all you guys to do this okay so i want you to look at the dot and just stare directly at the dot and then what i want you to do is don't look anywhere else and it's okay to blink if you want to okay so just take a moment to stare at the dot looking at it yeah i feel like i'm about to be like mind controlled or something to rob a bank for you uh close you're about to send me your entire yu-gi-oh collection i'm out all right this is not this okay so what i want you to do is notice uh uh charlie as you as you look at the dot like what your mind is doing is your mind focused on the dot along with your eyes or does your mind kind of fluctuate between the dot and other things fluctuate okay so now what i want you to do is look at the dot and put your attention don't look elsewhere but put your attention on the the red outside the blue box you see there's like a red square outside the blue box yeah so look at the dot but put your attention on the red does that make sense yeah and now i want you to move to the blue square with your attention but don't stop looking at the dot can you move your attention to the blue yeah i think so i think okay and now i want you to notice that there are circles inside the blue square and continue looking at the dot but then tell me what c what color or the circles inside the blue square yellow okay are there others i think yellow red yellow okay so now move further in what's inside the three circles the blue circle okay and then what's inside the blue circle red okay and what's inside red what what does it look like like uh like rose petals it looks like okay okay and then move further inside so keep staring at the dot it's okay to blink but let your attention move closer so what's inside the pink rose petals red rose petals looks like another another little ring of what color it's like a darker yellow okay and then keep on moving inward so let your attention move to the next layer in what's next it's another yellow circle okay and then green triangles k red triangles k blue triangles okay red triangles okay dot okay so what did you notice about how easy it was to attend to things as they came closer to your site oh yeah it was a lot easier the outside was a real struggle yep right so so yeah go ahead i just couldn't figure out what i what i was seeing over there getting pictures of bigfoot or something for all i could tell so what we can see what we can notice first of all is that awareness loves being close to our senses you see that it's just a relief it requires so much strain to pull your awareness away from your senses would you agree with that agreed so now we are first of all understand why studying is hard because in studying like our attention wants to wander somewhere else and it's like our injuries and our mind is going somewhere else it's hard to focus it to where you want to go so now what we're going to do is we're going to do this practice again so we're going to do it for about two minutes i want you to just close your eyes for a second okay and just go ahead and recalibrate so chat did you guys understand that okay so now what we're gonna do uh charlie is we're gonna start again and i want you to open your eyes and look at the red dot okay and what i want you to do is just fluctuate your attention so you can decide you can move from the outside in or the inside out but i want you to move your attention to different layers of the picture okay and just practice moving it in and out and focusing on something focusing on another thing if you want to you are noticing um you know the colors of the triangles but between the triangles there are also shapes so there are shapes created by the negative space okay so you can even notice those but we're going to practice for two minutes and just if you want to the simplest way is just start from the furthest outside and go in and then go back out but you can also just bounce around play with it okay then uh we'll try and freestyle this here okay okay so i'm gonna start inside and just kind of go out so okay red dot red triangles and there's like in the negative space it's like a little yellow i don't know what they called the four-sided shape not the square but the one that's on its side like a rhomboid yep it's blue triangles yellow skinnier rhomboids i sound like a [ __ ] psychopath red triangle okay so so pause for a second notice how you judge yourself for not coming up with the right word right you see how that thought popped up yeah so so for a moment your attention actually deviated completely away from the practice and entered a judgment yeah damn so so that's okay so and then once again you judge yourself for judging yourself so return your attention to the dot okay start in the dot and don't tell me what you see so let's take that off your plate so be silent and just fluctuate your attention play around with it do whatever you want to we're gonna ask everyone to be silent for like let's say about two minutes and just move your attention between the layers keep going we're halfway there you and now go ahead and close your eyes and notice that in the space in front of your mind you may see an image what do you see anything yeah i see the blue square the yellow ring red a red ring inside the yellow ring and then the yellow ring again beautiful so just focus don't stop focusing so continue looking at the image and continue the practice with your eyes closed so focus on the center or keep your mental eye on the center and let your attention fluctuate between the layers and just see with your eyes closed i don't know if this makes sense but do your best not to lose it does that make sense yeah it's weird huh don't lose it hold on i'm trying it's like a tug of war right now yes this is meditation when you win this war you will control yourself i'm gonna open my eyes and it turns out i'm like levitating above my chair or something okay so your attention has wandered so go ahead and stop when you're ready open your eyes yeah i had it for quite a while i'll say a lot longer than i thought i would good so questions yeah how so this exercise right here i imagine this is one you've done a lot of times sort of something similar yeah how long did it take you of doing these exercises before you finally like got the hang of it that's a hard question so here's what my experience with meditation is you think you get the hang of it and then the cool thing is like you start to get the hang of other things i'm still getting the hang of it and i'm also really good at it so i'll give you just an example so i do a particular mantra so this is something called a yantra which is like a physical symbol that's actually like it's actually like magic so if you really look at the tradition of of yantra which is part of the tantric or tantra branch of meditation if you really describe it it's kind of like magic but anyway i don't really put a whole lot of stock into that but i do a mantra so mantra is the chanting of a particular syllab syllable to cultivate a particular kind of energy not really very actually there's some science to it if we're being fair but not not really scientific at all so it took me some amount of time let's say a period of about two weeks to be able to sit and concentrate on the montreal fully but when you say get the hang of it i'd say after a couple of years it's hard to say um it's hard to describe but i started seeing my mantra in other things so i heard when you close your eyes yeah that's a yantra so mantra is a sound so i started to hear the sound of my mantra in the rhythm of life is the best way i can describe it and it's kind of the best indicator i can give you is like close your eyes and listen to the sound of your breath can you hear it no i don't hear a [ __ ] thing okay that's like deep breath so deep breath good so go ahead breathe good so the anyway so i know this is going to sound kind of weird but have you heard that sound anywhere else it is the only time i would have ever really heard that sound that i can think of is maybe during like some big physical exertion where i'm like you know panting or on the verge of collapsing like what pops to mind is when i used to play basketball right okay how close are you to uh the ocean oh not not close okay so one day if you get the chance and you're at the ocean i would listen to the sound of the ocean and then listen to the sound of your breath and see if they sound similar they sound different so this is kind of a leading exercise right so what i discovered it was it's hard to describe but what i found is that my mantra is like a very fundamental sound that can be heard in many many many many places and so in a sense i felt like that's when i really started getting the hang of it and so the goal of meditation is you start to discover things and like learn things about yourself about a universe we're talking really culty but honestly that's what it's like hard to describe but it's like it's sort of like you know when i ask you the experience of is it you know you learn something fundamental today when you look at that thing and you're like it's so difficult to see the outside and it's so easy to see the inside and what you're literally doing is doing push-ups for your mind where you're training your attention to go where you decide instead of it following your indriyas or your sense organs if you become free of your indriyas in terms of where your attention goes your life will be completely different if we think about someone who's disciplined they smell a burger and they order a salad what is that it's separation from attention from the indira separation from the attention to the indriya is one of the most crucial skills and we don't teach it to people and you can start with this practice because literally all it is there's nothing to there's no significance it's just a sterile environment it's a sandbox where you put your indoria in one place and you put your attention somewhere else and it's [ __ ] hard and then what happens is you close your eyes and you see that after image and then i tell you charlie hold on and you're like it's a war you're damn right it's a war and when you start winning that war when you wake up one day and you say on january 1st i'm gonna go to the gym every day there's that thought and it's really easy and you're highly motivated on january 2nd that start thought starts to pull away because you haven't learned how to hold on you don't know how to hold on to something that's slipping away from your mind this is a practice that literally you do push-ups to hold on to what you choose to hold on to and you get better at it and then you'll be able to go upstairs yeah it's that simple but it's very difficult so practice i'll send you a link for the sri yantra if you are interested it's good if you want to i i would get i would get a physical picture so you're not looking at a screen though but it's a good yantra to start with um and it you know it also sent me all your yugioh card don't you ever say we don't even joke about that in this holy sanctuary they have a lasting home they don't need to go anywhere any other questions no man i've just really enjoyed this i really appreciate you having me on yeah it's been fun for me too charlie i really appreciate the work you do man oh thank you and i appreciate your work as well all right man take care you too have a great are you going to keep streaming nope are you streaming no no no i was just going to say have a great rest of the stream but if you're heading out yeah if you were streaming i'd rate you but okay that's sweet all right take care man bye thanks here okay that was cool

Channel: HealthyGamerGG

Views: 990,864

Rating: 4.9567914 out of 5

Keywords: mental health, drk, dr kanojia, healthygamergg, healthy gamer gg, twitch, psychiatrist, moistcr1tikal, penguinz0, moistcr1tikal yugioh, penguinz0 yugioh, skynut, nuts, meditation, livestreamfail, putting yourself last, putting others first, yantra, yantra meditation

Id: sn4ic7ftesw

Length: 127min 54sec (7674 seconds)

Published: Thu Sep 03 2020