How to rebuilding older machines using the hand scraping method ?

we've had a number of emails where people have said what do you do about your machinery and equipment when it wears out that's a damn good question because we have a number of options one is we can send it the boneyard buy a new one or we can rebuild it so we said why do we want to rebuild it well let me tell you why there's a darn good reason for rebuilding your existing machinery think about this the machinery that was built in the 50s 60s and 70s was overweight big bulky solid made out of great cast iron the stuff that's made today is a lot lighter weight particularly imports there's more of a problem with the metal with the imports but and not from every country but certainly from the Asian countries the material is different so why do we want to buy a brand-new machine versus having one rebuilt well let's just give you a number say that a new machine is going to cost and let's talk about a surface grinder for a minute say no machine is going to cost 6070 thousand dollars we take a used machine that we have in here we can send it out and get it rebuilt for probably about half that price but more importantly it'll come back looking like brand-new it'll also function better than new because if you send it out to a reputable rebuilder they will take it apart re scrape it we're talk about scraping I mean that's a real art we're going to show you all about scraping put in new Oilers put in new loop system rebuild all the electronics of moon motors are all checked over and refurbished if necessary you get a brand new machine spindles rebuilt so why do we want to do that we're going to take a field trip we're going to take you out to a company called place on these folks out there are magicians what they do is a lost art you won't even believe what you're going to see it's just incredible to watch these gentlemen do their job and I'm telling you it's tedious and it's amazing and we're going to show you some pictures before the machine was rebuilt while it's being rebuilt and what it looks like when it's done so Jim what do you say we pack it up take our field trip out to place on and show the folks what it's all about let's go brother let's go okay so we're here at place on and Jim is going to take us through his facility a gym I have to tell you we're just so overwhelmed and amazed at the talent that you guys have here and this is another world I don't think that our viewers have any idea of what it takes to rebuild a machine and take it from the ground up and I know that I'm looking at the tolerances that you work within and I'm just overwhelmed with it and I think our viewers are going to feel the same way this is so exciting for me to come through here and to see how you guys work so can you take us through I've just brought you a machine okay I brought you a surface grinder okay and I want you to rebuild it for us can you take us through station by station and Oprah show us how you do it thanks all right let's go it's okay where do you want to start it doesn't matter if you want we can look and see what actually a scraping process is if you look behind us here mark is a scraper hand just ran in there Jim scraping ways has been around for probably a hundred years and what it is is a way to bring in machinery or whether be an inspection plate or inspection equipment bring it into the closest tolerances possible for example it's it's this unit here probably for flatness and squareness when mark is done it probably would be a total TIR probably two tests well a lot closer than you know we can do with a machine it'll be pit flat parallel square in six different positions so right now he's working on getting it flat right actually he's removing stock if you notice we use the a red dye and then a black dye and we use a master that we rub on there and it shows us the high spots at that point mark cuts the high spots and brings them down so that the surface is perfectly parallel one little nip at a time one little nays actually probably removing maybe a tenth or two at a time in the hand scraper so then then when he's done there he's going to have to to get it square in parallel right he's got to work on that so not just removing the high spots to get it flat but he's got to remove the high spots to get it parallel or square right correct so he'll scrape it and then he'll set he'll have his indicator and he'll set up and indicate all the points and then take it from there so mark how much time do you think you'd end up spending on that Oh probably about a day and a half two days is that right wow that's amazing it's it's a very Dias you got to have patience right yeah so is your wife deal with that I mean you know she patient are you patient with her I guess I should say happen anyway great well great well let's let's move on to the okay next station I guess all right this is what what is this here basically this is a cross light off of a little blonde lathe and we have the other components here in the shop and what we do is we set this up and we scrape all of the ways here so that they're perfectly flat parallel and square okay generally we'd like to see this probably a total T of our probably about three tensors Wow it's so it's set up right now on the ways underneath is that correct no actually it's set up on jax-ur at this point we set it up on a three point stance to ensure that there's no twist with the jacks are on what the jacks are actually on a surface plate these are our inspection plates okay that we scrape in ourselves we have an auto kilometer which is able to check down to 25 million the flat so we will check this and in 16 different positions to make sure that this is perfectly flat so it's on its up it's on jacks on the service plate what's it touching underneath it's just resting on the casting at this point I see because we don't know how these ways are under here okay so once we get this flat in itself once we set this on its mate then we can determine if there's an error down here and then correct so you start with the casting kind of as a reference point yes sir and we set them on three points because with this type of casting if we were to set it on four points we would be able to twist it sure not get an actual inaccurate sure check it's really amazing pretty amazing so very slow process people don't realize how much is involved yeah and rebuilding emissions so Jim I hope at some point you can get a close-up about what marks doing over here will you be able to do that you think okay because I think you maybe mark can show us too about how he uses the two different colors of dyes at some point hey Jim you might want to move in on Kenya so we're going to show the process of the two different dyes that he uses Jim uses a red dye and then a black diet or mark does they use it red and then a black correct and you're cleaning that what do you use forces that mineral spirits in the squeeze bottle yes some mineral spirits up put in with the red light just voicing up a little bit so there is a first coat and I just wipe off the excess so it dries to like it's little haze aha I can see why it takes two days to do it I'll take the black one and that's your reference plate that you know is flat correctly this is be like my master yep - surfaces - can you see that cuz that's what's left are your high points so now you're going to take and remove that we found the high points you're going to start scraping all those high points off until you get this perfectly flat is that correct more I hit the high points the flatter the more high points okay so right now how close would you say this is I'd say it's probably about a couple tenths and then right now beautiful beautiful okay so that's how the scraping is done right right Jim yes and then where do we go from here now okay well basically um we do all types of machinery these these castings here are actually new castings that come to us machined and what the customer requests is that we scrape in all the ways and if you notice they're all scraped we make sure that they're flat and parallel everything is square the column is scrape the head of scrape square and then once we once we establish that everything checks within reason the castings are taken into the back where we our painter Matt will sand them fill them and paint them so that they have a nice appearance so when this comes from from the factory that makes us casting and everything their ground but they're not they're not as their machine they're not ground ok milled and they're not as close as your customer wants so that's real commit right sir we guarantee you the top of this table here within one time Wow ok and what is this machine going to be used for this is actually used in the medical field it's it's the base of a CNC machine that our customer will build once they get it back to their physique and it has a robot that loads its parts and unloads its parts so basically you start the hip hit the start button and walk away Wow ok and you know once once we had it all painted and it goes to assembly and Steve our machine repairman here is installing a ball screw for the vertical travel they Steve how you doing all right buddy it's all good so Steve has you know preppies prior to scraping and so forth and now that they're out of paint and he's going to do the final assembly on them and then they will show so did you paint these here yes sir we did well that's cool yep good looking stuff we use automotive paint because it's a very resistant to coolants and so forth and of course it gives it a nice shine and it's a pretty durable product beautiful product all right so where do we go next oh sure we can go here actually this is the base of that LeBlanc blade that we spoke of earlier okay we got we got it up here on our inspection table these ways are hard so we cannot scrape them so we have to have it Madison ground yeah so this is the base of the Leblon lathe yes that mark was working on there the cross light actually fits on to here once he completes that so that we know that that unit is good within itself we will set it up here and indicate it and make sure that everything is running true amazing okay just amazing I mean Ivan and this is going to be within what 1/2 a thousands or something we hearin yeah will guarantee this machine to be within 5 tons well trout that's that's pretty incredible so now where do we go oh you can go here we do a lot of machinery that is sometimes it's too large to bring in here this is actually the column off of a Blanchard oh yeah see that Lansford rotary grinder mark and Tom have qualified all the vertical ways here unfortunately the head was so scored up that we had to have it machined and once we get it back from machining then they will set it up here and they will scrape and fit this to this unit here Wow okay well this is a give I guess for joining it actually has three Gibbs though there behind you is the keeper caps that bolt onto the head so once the head is fit and all scraped in then they will fit the positive side the hip and fit the keeper game now part of this scraping I think there's it's a correct me if I'm wrong but Jim business like a two-step process where you scrape it to get to get it flat square parallel but then don't you also put little deep pockets in there so it'll carry the oil yes that's a process called flaking and if you notice that it's flaked here so what happens is once the oil falls the the flake marks actually form like small pockets pockets that the oil will sit in so that when that when the slide rubs by it will pick up the oil from that point and then you know so that the it stops it from sticking and also for wearing so it seems to me that the real key to longevity of a machine is to make sure that it has proper lubrication am I correct yeah to be honest with you that's probably why we resistance right why we rebuilt so many machinery because people forget to oil them it's amazing it's just amazing but we can move on if you like let's go I'll show you all right let me show you what what happens here this is a bra a shirt a 618 micro Master that's come in for a rebuilt they just came in a few days ago so we haven't been able to touch it but this GNL here has been here a little bit and we can show you what the process is okay so I bring you a surface grinder and tell me the processor what are you going to do okay basically when we bring the machine in we set it up and we test run it and we check everything out from the hydraulic system to the spindle to the electrical mechanical everything else we take our notes determine you know where certain problems are we disassemble the machine right down to the bare casting I mean it's stripped right down hydraulic tanks are removed all the lines are removed everything is stripped right down it's a big job yeah and what we do is if you notice in the back all the parts are in the back so now what what we will do is the machine repairman will go through every part on that cart and see what needs to be replaced or repaired then we go through that process and we repair replace whatever we need to do everything on em you interrupt you but everything on these carts come came off this machine's a curette eh two carts here at came off of this one machine Wow okay so they take up a lot more space when they come apart and yes so once you know we get it all tore down and all cleaned up because usually they're pretty nasty it goes to scraping and what happens is the scraper hands will scrape the base they'll scrape the bottom of the saddle they'll scrape the top of the saddle they will scrape the bottom of the table they will scrape the column if you notice the column is all scraped yeah now that surface there is not only flat and parallel but it's also perpendicular to the ways down here on the base so that when that head does travel up and down it runs nice and square so is this kind of what you start from is that the foundation that was at the first step square in the column yes and this machine yes we we square the column because it is part it's an integral part of the integral part of the whole machine a lot of machines the column is removable so you know we're able to square those parts up individually within themselves and then you know screw drilling surface here once the scraper hands are done then we go to paint and the meantime the machine repairmen are doing their thing on all the parts getting everything motors pumps everything up to snuff and then the castings actually go back into paint in other words every part is sanded filled primed and painted individually so that when the parts come back up for assembly they're nice and clean and there's going to be no contamination when we go to you example you legitimate looks like we're in the finishing Department paint and finish I guess is what you'd call this right right once once the castings and everything have been scraped and ready to go to assembly we bring them back into the paint department and are they mat match over your manual in our mats our painter and what's he what he does is he sends them down smooth them out and then he fills them and Sansa and Prime's them and fills them again and then shoots the final coat we like to paint all the machinery prior to assembly just due to the fact of the dust factor so once we the machine repairman get the parts format they're perfectly clean they're all washed after he's done and then we go to assembly so you're going beyond paint I mean you're actually finish refinishing the whole machine right it's correct and we use an automotive car paint which is very hard and durable the coolants and we've had a lot of success with it and you know we make the machines look as good as they run a met can you show us how you put some of the the filler on Matt did you do that GNL over there awesome job man looks very much looks like looks like an automotive finish I mean it looks at that good now that I got to tell you that takes a real skill set to put that filler on as smooth as you do so you don't have to do the idea is not to do much grinding right yeah well basically I'm lazy I don't like to do any more work and I have to great job love it wrangle and then the meantime you can work on the fount on the base or something else right well that's hardening beautiful so there you go Jim that's how we do it right that's how we do it it's all finished she'll be shiny and look like new no and running like new it's got a run like now right hey thanks man appreciate it okay so Jim now that we've you've explained to us about the processing of taking the machine apart and so forth give us an idea what the finished product really looks like when we're all said and done all right that sounds great good sense fortunate we got the same type of machine sitting right next to it here that that's getting ready to go back to it's not like it's brand new you know the paint job on this thing so we go through we test run them make sure that the they grind according to the tolerances that they need to and we make sure that everything is functional all the knobs are knurled electrical is done all this everything is done this looked like this is all new is it yes sir it is Wow yep that's amazing I mean I'm looking at this this thing looks like it's probably better than it was when it came out of the factory yes it does that it's a much better paint job than then they probably did back in the 60s this machine was actually built in a 60s so if you don't mind me asking what what kind of cost typically would it be to redo a machine like then I realize it's going to vary depending on a machine but just a ballpark number a ballpark number you're probably going to be in the neighborhood between probably twenty-seven thousand and thirty thousand dollars and to get a brand-new machine parts and labor rights that's that's pretty cheap when you think about it yes it is and and especially buy it with today you know these old machines these old castings you can't beat them now this is a true true good metal that we have used many years and it still holds up it just needs to be fresh so talking about the metals earlier you'd mentioned about the the difference in the material between the imported machines and the older machines like this right tell me about that well actually the the material that we're seeing on some of the foreign machinery the the cast iron is very soft it's very porous and it's soft it's not like you know these castings that were done probably in the 50s and 60s where it's a true number one grade cast iron in fact our scraper hands basically you could blindfold them and give them a hand scraper and have him hit you know touch a piece that was made here in the u.s. two swipes he'd tell you which I was going which ones which which one softer and which ones given them a harder time so you know we talked about the imports and the look-alikes is another example of looking at a machine over here that's imported and looking at machine it's made here in the United States and it's just just a different animal it goes back to the you know the old scenario you get what you pay for yeah I know a lot of the imports are you know a lot cheaper but they don't as far as the quality of the metal they don't compare to this it's amazing yep so I'm just overwhelmed anyway Jim I I can't thank you enough for taking us through here and showing us the talents that that you guys have here it's uh this is old school as we say it yes it is it's all old school and we're all old here you're right I'll get it all yeah I was going to carry it on ah we don't know it's it's hard it's it's hard to find people that you know you know want to do this type of work it's a very physical job and studious yes and it's very time-consuming and it gets kind of dirty so well I'll tell you I certainly appreciate the talent that your folks have here and and you and your staff and what it takes to make a machine look like this pretty remarkable and I know that our viewers are really going to enjoy watching the video and seeing what it takes to make a machine look like this brand new again oh yeah so great all right and let me show you what it looks like when it's running since the product the finished product it just started the spindle I'm going to start the hydraulics if you notice the machine is very quiet ready to go I'll just run the table for you here and we're off we'll put the feed unit on and we'll have the saddle feed for you and Wow just like brand new yes sir amazing yep just amazing so if you notice she's quite as a mouse where your team does a great job I guess yes I do mrs they're very dedicated in with us a long time and we appreciate you this we've got some real talent here we appreciate the talent that we do have thanks again Jim I'm awesome my pleasure great job man all right well here we go we've gone from the beginning to the end we've been privileged to have Jim take us through place on and show us how a machine is rebuilt right from scratch taking the casting all apart rebuilding the entire machine scraping it making it as good as new and putting the finishing touches on it and doing the hydraulics the electronics spend the whole shot Jim we're so impressed with what your team does I can't thank you enough for take us through and I know that our viewers are going to love it so okay thank you so much for taking us through I really appreciate it thank you and thanks for watching folks I know you're going to enjoy this one and stay tuned for the next video coming up because we're going to do another field trip in the next few weeks so thanks for watching you

Channel: SuburbanTool Inc

Views: 875,186

Rating: 4.7441235 out of 5

Keywords: Don Bailey, Suburban Tool, Machine building, Surface Grinding, machining, cnc, lathe, precision, rebuilding, Hand Scraper, Machine (Product Category), Metal scraping, flat, surfacing

Id: REeGn4hN1Bg

Length: 26min 9sec (1569 seconds)

Published: Tue Sep 08 2015

Reddit Comments

[u/trogan77]

Here is another (better?) scraping video that I really got a lot of great info out of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOJrhrne80s

[u/panxzz]

This is a really cool video but I'm glad it is only episode one because it is so poorly produced!

There shouldn't be coughing in the background and fuzzy audio (10 mins in) and the narrator telling the camera where to be going; very interesting process none-the-less.

[u/Kalafok]

This is really nice and all, but I had hoped they would explain some of the more advanced techniques, like how they get the ways square on such a huge chassis part. Or how they get the spindle in line with the ways on a lathe. I'm also curious how to scrape dovetail ways to an accurate fit.

I'm also a bit disappointed that the creator of the video was so impressed with the paint. Anyone can do that. The scraping and particularly the methods of measuring are far more impressive, in my opinion.

[u/HipsterGalt]

Honestly, they may be poorly done at some points but I love Don's videos and I'm glad he did a shout out to my industry. Scraping and refurbing machines is an art.

[u/deceptivelyelevated]

thats amazing

[u/MaritimeRedditor]

We have a guy come from Massachusetts every year or two to check our machines and do this to them. Incredible work, and I'm pretty sure the guy makes bank doing it.

Edit: did a little Googling, this guy does power scraping, not hand scraping. It is similar though.

[u/jutct]

I have an old 10 inch southbend lathe that I'd love to fix using this. The problem is that I'm a noob and there are so many considerations when working on a lathe, such as surfaces that need to be perpendicular and true to each other.

[u/noplace_ioi]

can someone enlighten me, wouldn't a cnc grinder machine or similar arrangement suppose to get things pretty flat/parallel/etc? how can this method be better?

[u/greekdude1821]

Same concept as repairing a dent in a car