Before Elves & Men - What did Ancient Tamriel Look Like? - Elder Scrolls Lore

the oldest scroll spans thousands upon thousands of years four thousand four hundred and fifty years of recorded history but the thing is there are thousands of years that span beforehand in a dawn and maratha carers welcome back to fudge Muppet my name is Scott and today I present you before elves and men what was ancient Tamriel like what races and civilizations thrived prior to their arrivals well let's dive right in and rediscover a primordial Tamriel in the maratha Cara we do have some approximate dates marking the amount of years before the first error begins when recorded history begins 2500 years before the start of the first era Adam Antioch the adamantine tower or later known as the Durrani Tower is constructed on the Isle of Bal Fiera in the illiac Bay created by the gods during the convention where they discussed Mundus and devised law Khan's punishment it seems that this marks the earliest point in the maratha Cara and this would give us an approximate length of 2500 years for the error another somewhat accurate date we have in the maratha Cara is the arrival of men in what is called the late marenick era according to the book frontier conquest from the University of will impress archeological excavations date the earliest human settlements around 800 to 1,000 years before the first error predating is grandma's arrival by centuries which itself is estimated some 500 years before the first error begins before this we know that the elves arrived in Tamriel traveling from the now lost land of alt Maris in a period called the middle mer ethic era but we have no concrete dates for their arrival only that it is between 2500 and 1000 years prior to the first era so in my best estimate I would probably say that within that 1500 year period a thousand of them were probably spent with elven presence placing elves arrival at around 2,000 years before the first era begins perhaps this period could be shorter maybe even five to eight hundred years on Tamriel before humans but the reason I guess that there is a rare 1,000 years of Elvan only occupation is due to the amount of history that takes place here the old mer arrived the crystal tower is built Topol the pilot charts Tamriel the Bosma presumably diverged in Velen would the a let's go to seer Adele and create the white gold tower the Dwemer expand across Tamriel presumably the Falmer as well true nemac is transformed into Malekith hence his elven followers are turned into orcs and the Kaymer follow the profit fell off into res Dayne where high-velocity culture begins but then this culture degenerates into tribal cultures which then have to evolve into the great houses of morrowind I feel like 1000 years is an appropriate amount of time for all of this to happen especially considering that the elves are long lived in that period could be just three elven lifespans regardless to me what this leaves us with is approximately 500 ish maybe up to 700 years of Tamriel with zero elven settlement and to zero men in this time what intelligent or somewhat intelligent races exist what civilizations live in this land of Dawn's beauty much of what we know about Tamriel in its earliest possible stages before elves or men come from journals written when topal the pilot the Aldmeri explorer set forth and mapped the land of Tamriel through exploration fragments of this ancient expedition preserved in the book father of the Nibin provide valuable insight into what Tamriel was like before elves or men at first Topol sailed up the western coast of Tamriel and encountered what he called orcs in the land we now know as high rock which seems implausible but this is what the author has to say about it the question of course is what is to be made of this apparent reference to orcs occupying the region tradition has it that the orcs were not born until after the Oldman had settled the mainland that they sprung up as a distinct race following the famous battle between trina mac and boethiah at the time of rez Dayne it is possible that the tradition is wrong perhaps the orcs were an Aboriginal tribe predating the Aldmeri colonization perhaps they were a cursed folk ausma in the alte Maris the same word for orc of a different kind whose name was given to the orcs in a different era it is regrettable that the fragment ends here for more clues to the truth are undoubtedly lost it is a strange mystery but I could offer here my own theory at this point in Tamriel's history it would seem very possible that goblin can that is goblins recling zou Gers and such were quite widespread unchallenged by the elves and men of contemporary Tamriel I believe that these orcs that Topol encountered were in fact goblins goblins existed in the summerset isles the first aldmer civilization on Tamriel and perhaps orcs are what they called these goblins that they treated with disdain and slavery hence white opal encountered what he called orcs it is also worth noting that according to throne Keeper fathered a red guard priest of Taraka goblins of the first era were also known to be taller and less cowardly than goblins of contemporary times then later on in history the Ultima followers of trinamic are cursed and changed from elven Beauty to tusked green savages elves that closely resemble goblins I believe that it is this point that the old methought them to be like the taller goblins that they called orcs so they called the changed followers of trinamic awesomer meaning pariah folk but as an insult and perhaps at times in genuine confusion they were called orcs grouping them together with goblins this could be where the age old idea that orcs are goblin can come from with this theory over time Hawks would come to mean specifically the awesomer distinguishing them from the other less intelligent and less imposing goblin kin by giving them the name goblins but remember this is just a theory but I think it helps explain why Topal saw what he called orcs before the birth of the awesomer and also why there is an association between goblins and awesomer that has stood the test of time even though awesomer were originally Ultima but now I'll take off my tinfoil hat and get to what the presence of goblins on Tamriel must have been like goblins were and are still widespread throughout Tamriel the Summerset Isles was inhabited by goblins of which the old mer enslaved when they arrived Hammerfell is noted for huge populations of them prior to the arrival of regatta the warrior wave and remember that is after need exceda meant so likely before the needs there were even more goblins sirrah Delhi rock and morrowind are also home to many clans in modern ages so the possibility that goblin society was more widespread before elves or men is almost guaranteed in my opinion and remember that father had mentioned the goblins of the first era were taller and less cowardly well following this logic the goblins of the Maratha era were probably more like those same goblins goblins are considered quite primitive but there is some evidence to suggest that there was once a higher goblin culture an example of which is a mysterious obelisk covered in runes in fear frost caverns home of a goblin clan though then again perhaps this is a relic of an other people regardless we can know for sure that a pre elven pre-human Tamriel definitely had goblin societies high or primitive widespread throughout Tamriel there are also the white skinned Riker goblins of the Hrothgar region and the railings of soul stone which during the second era also were found in Skyrim so one could imagine that before elves and men these were also far more widespread as the rest of the goblins were another type of goblin kin are ogres which likely proliferated in these times as well so topal makes his way through the north down the coast of morrowind and eventually arrives at Black Marsh where he mentions the humanoid lizards what we know as the argonians today the argonians have seemingly been in black marsh since the dawn of time the histories of black marsh in the argonians are intimately intertwined in biology society and spirituality and according to the annotated an you add the hist were by standards in the LFA war but most of their realm was destroyed as the war passed over it a small corner of it survived to become black marsh in Tamriel but most of their realm was sunk beneath the sea some have speculated that the hist are survivors of a previous Kalpa a universal cycle but regardless the hist are ancient in some believe that the argonians were originally hellström ancestor lizards that lit the hist SAP and over time with the SAP evolved into the argonians of today you can look to our video on the histories for more elaboration on this but Interpol's time the argonians were there and do we know a little about ancient Argonian civilization of mighty stone ziggurats called as an Mears ancient argonians had an advanced civilization perhaps more unified than the many tribes of today also theorized to have a larger trade network this society were advanced in many regards such as their skill with the creation of weaponry regardless of length elder Argonian blades were made from a series of volcanic glass shards set in a beaten bronze Channel the prevalence of volcanic glass in so many weapons was quite surprising given that there isn't any known volcanic activity within black marsh itself that suggests the argonians may have regularly ventured into what we now call morrowind that passage also suggests that this advanced Argonian Society predated elven presence in morrowind because the kymo whom would arrive later on weren't too kindly to argonians making this type of resource collection improbable the advanced society collapsed in a calamity period called dusk fall what followed was an Argonian Dark Age if you will knowledge of how to create the Sam years and many other things were lost resulting in the Argonian civilizations of today but knowing all this I think it's safe to say that the argonians the tope witnessed were likely the advanced ooze and mere civilization of argonians perhaps the dusk 4 was in part attributed to the expansion of elven kind on Tamriel cutting off the argonians to resources traded for or collected from other lands black marsh was also home to the vulpine like fox people called the lil Muffet they actually founded a city here called lil moth that still stands today whether or not they flourished before elves or men arrived in Tamriel it is not known but it is certainly possible especially if you believe like some that they are related to the Khajiit by the mid second era the lilith it had been in decline for many generations the closest clans having withdrawn from the coastal areas inland towards the city of black rose then a Hearton flew then came and what resulted was their extinction Topol on his expedition then discovered what is now known as Topol bay and on the coasts of what we know as elsewhere he encountered the Khajiit the cat demons of four legs and two ran the rivers length always keeping the boat in their green eyed sight hissing and spitting and roaring with rage many corroborate this version of events where Khajiit civilization on Tamriel predates that of elves and men however it is their own creation myth that suggests they have common ancestry with the Bosma of Valen wood and that Azura changed them into the feline humanoids of today meaning that they were originally of Ultima stock but that doesn't quite make sense with the presence of these cat demons that topal saw since topos expedition predated elven settlement on mainland Tamriel perhaps it could be that some old mer arrived earlier than once thought and became the Bosma and Khajiit respectively then the final old mer to leave old Maris came to Somerset after all Topol goes towards high rock around tomorrowand and down to black marsh and into Topal bay then up the Nibin river into cyrodiil the fragments in the father of the Nibin have no mention of Valen wood nor the Bosma perhaps they are here at this time it's hard to know what bits of historical and mythological evidence to give more credit to but personally I believe that topal did see the ancient Khajiit and if they truly are from elven stock then I believe the old Moe who became the Bosma must have arrived long before we once thought predating topples expedition and the settlement of Somerset so speaking of topal he leaves Topol Bay traveling up the Nibin River and eventually finds the eight isles of lake Ramar a where the Imperial City would one day be built listen to this passage for eleven days they traveled north until they came to a crystalline lake and eight islands of surpassing beauty and peace brilliant flight for creatures of glorious colors greeted them in Aldmeri language making the mer wonder until they understood that they were only calling back the word they were speaking without understanding it and then the sailors laughed Topol the pilot was enchanted with the islands and the feathered men who there there the Nibin stayed for a moon and the Birdman learned how to speak their own words and with talent feet to write in joy for their new knowledge they made Topol their Lord giving him their islands for the gift Topol said he would return someday but first he must find the passage east to first hold so far away this describes Topol meeting these colorful bird people and teaching them how to read and write and in return they made Topal their Lord giving him the islands we never hear of this mysterious bird people ever again but I doubt they were works of fiction presumably Topal or perhaps one of his descendants or perhaps another elf returns to the Isles and claimed it for themselves the a lured civilization of elves that would emerge from their slant incorporated many motifs of birds and feathers into their armor costume and architecture which I believe was inspired by the original inhabitants of the land whether these bird people were driven to extinction by violence dwindling resources or lack of reproduction we will never know so far we have determined through fragments of topples expeditionary journals that orcs or as I believe goblins in my theory are in Somerset High Rock and spread throughout Tamriel as well as other goblin can like ogres as well as rockier of Hrothgar and the writings of Skyrim and soul same argonians and mere pre dusk for civilization and possibly the lil Moffat are in Black Marsh the Khajiit are in elsewhere the bird people in cyrodiil and depending on which evidence we are looking at perhaps the Bosma are already in Velen wood but as that is a hot topic of debate and the video is after all called before elves and men I will not include them on this map of the early Maratha Kara but since we're on the topic of Valen wood let's discuss the inhabitants of this land pre Bosma the Inga the great apes the native beast folk of Valen would have been here since before the Ultima arrived most of what is known about them is from post elven and post human Tamriel regarding their reverence and idolization of the Ultima and the most notable of their race my rook who would inspire the creation of the élysée in order but one could assume they thrived in the forests without the Bosma taking up room it would be fun to speculate what their relationship with the Khajiit was another race that is known to live in pre elven Tamriel specifically in Velen would are the centaurs half-horse half-man type creatures ancient and mysterious the centaurs are capable of sophisticated speech and refer to others as mortals suggesting that they possess a greater than mortal situation perhaps indicating an ageless life death only met by physical wounds they are also true followers of the old ways the very same system of beliefs and worship that the siddik order practice considering that their forms are well suited for travel and the fact that they are encountered in both high rock and Hammerfell by the late 3rd era it is likely that they are widespread in the Maratha time there is also scarce mention of satyrs in Velen wood pre old ma but little other law mentions this race presumably they were half goat half men like the satyrs of greco-roman mythology now let's talk about the giants the largest sentient race of Tamriel in history they have been known to exist in lands such as Valen Wood Cyrodiil hammer fell high rock and Skyrim many believed that they were the first to come from atmora and that they are related to the Nords in Giants a discourse by cord the curious he says but nonetheless we are connected to these giants for we both share a common ancestor the at morons were huge and smart Nords descended from these ancient folk became the small relatively speaking intelligent people that we are today giants on the other hand became the huge stupid creatures that we watch from a distance once we honored our cousins with offerings of cows but this practice has fallen out of favor perhaps that is to the detriment of nord villages everywhere this is a possible origin and could make sense perhaps they truly were an earlier migration of it morons who grew different to those who became the races of man and the Nords then again they could have also been a native race of Tamriel we don't know for sure but there is no evidence that rules them out of our pre elven pre-human Tamriel so I think it's likely that they were here probably as widespread if not more than they are today but there is also another group of giants called frost giants they possess five eyes and have two curved horns decorating their forehead white shaggy hair covers their bodies they are extremely strong and have regenerative abilities that are stunted by fire they are incredibly rare in Tamriel in recent errors they have only been seen in the Forgotten Vale in the soul stone naturally given their presence in the high rock Skyrim border area and also soul slime I believe it not to be unreasonable that they once occupied territories throughout Skyrim the distance between these two places perhaps even beyond at times the summerset isles were said to have once been inhabited by the ill yadi giants of many eyes taller than trees perhaps even further back in the dawn era The Iliad II were wider spread and the frost giants with their five eyes are an offshoot or perhaps a result of ill yadi interbreeding with normal Giants of possible Atmore and descent one could speculate that maybe even frost trolls and by extension normal trolls have descended or devolved from frost giants bearing similar faces and multiple eyes 3 instead of 5 the frost giants also share in common with the trolls the regeneration abilities it's fun to speculate but Giants of all variety would have been present in early Maratha Kara Tamriel there are two more races that likely possessed some form of society or civilization in the early Maratha Kara the first of which is the Lamia which are these female serpentine amphibious beasts folk that have found near water all over Tamriel they can speak Tamriel Eck wield magic are led by a queen they wear jewelry and even possess their own religion involving the egg mother and the great egg and that is how they are in more recent errors one could speculate that the presence of elves and men have forced their civilization to the fringes perhaps they were once more advanced or widespread like seems to be the case with the infamous drag the drags in contemporary time is but a crustacean mollusk type creature that inhabits the Seas they transform into land drags to breed and at this time they are very violent the modern beast is found in areas such as the Abba can see the NSE of Morrowind and the iliac bay but the interesting thing about this beast folk is found in Dunn teachings of the tribunal temple they say that once they had a civilization long before the first era where they ruled the world as tyrants with Molag Bal as their chief the 36 lessons of vivec speak of them as the ultima of the sea in castles of glass and coral it gets crazier than that as do most stories written by vivec but there is another corroborating story about drag civilization from man car Cameron in the mythic dawn commentaries he says that tyrant drag kings ruled over all Mundus and the oceans of League until mehrunes dagon destroyed it you can watch our video about the crustaceans who ruled the world linked below for a further explanation but given there are two separate sources that corroborate the existence of a drag civilization we can surmise that it existed even if it is potentially exaggerated so ultimately I think the map of a pre elven pre-human Tamriel would look a little something like this various goblin clans spread over Tamriel the Reich air and dry clings inhabiting northern lands tribes of centaurs spreading the breath of Western Tamriel as well as Giants wandering those same areas the frost giants more widespread than they are today in the northern regions the intelligent colorful bird people that inhabit the eight miles of lake room are a Vale and wood is home to the Inger the great apes who share the land with centaurs and Giants elsewhere is home to the Khajiit and we can only speculate the degree to which their civilization is advanced whether it be various tribes and clans or some form of ancient kingdom we know for sure that the argonians once had a civilization far more advanced than they are today and it's likely that it was during this early muriatic period without the presence of men or elves the lilith it vulpine beast folk could have also been here at this time but some could argue that they would more likely migrate here without resistance during the Argonian Dark Age preceding the dusk fall societies of Lamia are spread all over Tamriel like they are today at least as advanced as they currently are and based on various stories it would seem that the dregs did once have a grand civilization of the oceans and perhaps they did rule parts of Tamriel proper such as the mainland of morrowind near the NSC and Vardhan fell based upon the cultural stories of the dunmer Khan with the drugs I'd place my bets on their civilization originating from the east or northeast oceans this is by no means a definitive map and it's fairly speculative but it should help give you a glimpse into what an early Maratha era pre elven pre man Tamriel would look like interestingly the only confirmed advanced civilization is that of the argonians in Black Marsh who were building Eternals and aamir structures and based on their weaponry material perhaps they had settlements throughout morrowind creating a large network of trade but of course there is no archaeological evidence for that at the moment the other potential advanced civilizations at the time of the Khajiit who could have been advanced or more nomadic clans and settlements but for some reason topples writings of cat demons trying to pounce at them makes me think that it is more likely the latter but then again he isn't going to paint the best picture of cats trying to kill him and finally there is the drag civilization which technically may not even be on Tamriel but the ocean near it unless they did spread in tomorrow wind via the NSE all speculative but regardless there you go the argonians were the most advanced civilization prior to the arrival of men and elves thank you so much for watching guys i really enjoyed researching and speculating for this video do let me know if I left anything out that you think should have been included perhaps dragons but I was going for more races of at least tribal kind of cultures for example I didn't talk about Spriggans because they sort of fall under the magical creature category even though they are intelligent you know what I mean anyways thanks so much for watching guys my name is Scott from fudge Muppet check out our merch linked in the description like the video if you enjoyed it always helps subscribe for more sweet Elder Scrolls content and I'll be back to nerd out with you again soon you

Channel: FudgeMuppet

Views: 308,921

Keywords: skyrim, elder scrolls, tamriel, elder scrolls lore, skyrim lore, fudgemuppet, tamriel lore, dreughs, goblins, orcs, topal the pilot, xanmeer, argonians, hist, khajiit, lilmothiit, before elves and men, ancient tamriel

Id: QClbp9-Ch-I

Length: 23min 48sec (1428 seconds)

Published: Wed Feb 05 2020