The SECRETS of Ancient Argonians & Their Lost Xanmeer Civilization - Elder Scrolls Lore

what's going on ladies and gentlemen my name is michael and welcome to fudge muppet there's no denying i'm the biggest fan of argonians here on the channel guilty as charged they've been one of my favorite races ever since i played elder scrolls for oblivion in 2006 and in skyrim i had one of my favorite playthroughs ever with a scaly green argonian who resided in honeyside in riften war master alteration robes and used enchantments to be an absolute beast at unarmed combat dual casting frost destruction spells and crafting the best alchemical potions to increase the potency of such spells immensely weird setup i know i've always found the argonians biology and aesthetic to be so unique and to me they're the most alien playable race in all of tamriel especially considering their link to the histories since skyrim came out elder scrolls online has only expanded their lore even more now i'm not a fan of every lore edition that was added particularly the all too convenient events leading to the ebonheart pact with the nords and the dark elves but thankfully at this stage i'd say the game has done more good than harm in fact some of the law added is so cool that it's some of my favorite in the whole series the law we're going to be talking about today covers one of the questions elder scrolls fans have always wanted to know about our scaly lizard folk friends what was their civilization like before the modern eras and when i tell you you'll likely be wondering what happened to it i'm sure you remember the story of topple the pilot and his voyage around tamriel in the marethic era on this journey he described what are surely argonians when he sailed past blackmarsh and wrote the fettered evil swamplands and their human lizards as the commentary by florin jalil on the text notes topple was no doubt being turned away by the disease and fierce argonian tribes that dissuaded many other explorers after him ancestors of modern day argonians are known to have been living in pre-literate tribal communities during the time of such oldmer exploration ancient targonian society has always been a mystery and before elder scrolls online shed new information on the topic i had assumed it would be even more tribal and less advanced than it is in the modern day however it seems like many ancient societies on tamriel the argonians were once quite advanced since ancient times a period known as dusk fall has occurred it sounds a bit like a trademark that could be used as a title for the elder scrolls vi but what dusk 4 actually is is the gradual decline of ancient argonian culture and society this decline or downfall of their old civilization is largely seen as a positive by modern argonians a period of philosophical growth and development i'll explain why this is in the video and it also makes me wonder what if the hist actually have something to do with it what if these ancient sentient trees have actually conspired to tear down the argonian society and trick them into creating it into something easier to manipulate you better believe we'll talk about history theories today as well so as you may know argonians venerate the hist trees although according to them they do not worship them in the traditional godly sense but rather perform rituals out of respect and reverence second most influential is actually sithus who plays a large role in argonian culture and is seen as the original creator by both the lizards and the hist sithus played an even more central role in ancient argonian society so it's important for today's video to realize just how thematically related he is to argonians and the hist as a whole sythis is neither aedric nor daedric he simply represents the primordial state of chaos chaos is disorderly often rapid and causes change it is present in revolutions the tearing down of the old and the rising of the new argonians too are inherently chaotic in the sense that they have the potential to change form quickly without the need for standard evolutionary forces to slowly take place this theme is also present in their creation story it is said that the hist made the argonians from lizards in black marsh after witnessing the humanoid shape of elves and men and admiring its utility this is quite unique as unlike the other races argonians cannot in any way trace their lineage back to the elna fey one argonian named mir glim even had a vision where he experienced the life of a lizard wandering aimlessly until finally one day it drank his sap and became an argonian scholars assumed that the argonians were uplifted from the hellstrom ancestor lizard specifically but overall which lizard it was is not important what matters is that such change such chaotic transformation was only possible with the powers of the hist the hist still exert powers of chaotic change upon the lizard folk to this day argonians who refer to genders as life phases can change them using a special method involving licking sap from a history to affect their hormonal glands histsapp was also used in the oblivion crisis to make the argonians faster and stronger ferocious enough to fight off the daedric invaders argonians can even change depending on their environment it has been said that argonians far from black marsh have lost their colour or even developed mammal-like traits depending on their new environment there's a multitude of ways the argonians can be altered and be different to one another and if you want to hear more especially about their tribes listen to our recent podcast on argonians linked below the important thing here is that argonian biology just like sithus embodies chaos so it is of no surprise that both the ancient argonians and the modern ones worship him in the pre-dusk 4 period priests of sithus reigned as kings performing various ceremonies and guiding argonian society as they built grand structures blood sacrifices were performed not out of love for sithis but out of fear sithis to the ancient argonians was a destroyer a bringer of the void and a ruinous force sithis needed to be appeased with an element of fear so present in the core of argonian society it is no wonder that the priests of sithis were elevated to levels of great power it's all quite meso-american in theme with some of the most awe-inspiring structures created known as xanmir's nobody knows how the xanmirs were made but they were built to last for thousands of years and many can still be found standing in blackmarsh some people even speculate that the xanmirs are remnants from a previous kappa along with the hist xanmi's are larger inside than they might look they're maze-like hiding various traps and sometimes even magical defenses ancient argonian tribes would also keep their respective history protected by xanmirs as you can see everything was done with a fear of death or destruction in mind modern argonians on the other hand do not try to protect themselves and their hist with stone instead they have built new structures that are not so sturdy some argonian tribes will still utilize the xanmirs for the unquestionable protective benefits but largely speaking modern argonians regard such structures as a manifestation of the flawed philosophies of ages past of the old argonian's inability to accept the reality that nothing lasts forever for life is ever-changing you see a main factor that separates the ancient argonians from those of modern times is the fear of impermanence and the modern lizard folks lack of it the difference between the two philosophies stems from their differing interpretations of sithis where ancient targonians would see sithis as purely destructive fearing the death of themselves the hist or their structures the new argonians view him as a destroyer and a creator through the chaos of sithis new things come to be and therefore the temporary nature of their lives to the modern argonian is not something to be feared but rather embraced it's worth noting though that even impermanence lacks permanence and every now and then there are still times where certain argonians decide to build with stone and declare inflexible dogma but overall there has been a huge shift in philosophy and it can be seen most clearly through the architectural differences in the old versus the new modern argonians look at the ruins of older societies and see the idea of trying to make something last forever as foolish many still revere the xanmirs but more from a sense of representing the lessons learnt from the past modern argonian structures are by their very nature designed to be temporary dwellings such as reed houses and mud huts are quite common things that can be easily built get the job done and also can quickly be rebuilt if they are somehow destroyed while they may not be as aesthetic as the xanmir's i will admit the mud huts do look pretty interesting despite their bland name they're not exactly telvani mushroom towers but the spherical almost root vegetable vibes is something i think is really cool to the modern argonian destruction is clearly inevitable and to deny this or to resist is to give in to what is called shunate shunate is a concept described as the pain caused by holding on too tightly to that which has come to pass also known as the fear of death and forgetting modern argonians desire to conquer shunate to evolve past the flawed belief system of old and to be mindful of the cycle of change to become one with it and in a way one with what they perceive as the true nature of sithus after all the reality is that sithis is not just the void but also a bringer of change and with argonians themselves subject to a great deal of change throughout the limited span of their lives the modern philosophy does make a lot of sense for them specifically it aligns with them on a biological level but was this change even a good thing for argonian society well i'd expect that on an individual level the new way of thinking would make argonians happier who wants to live in constant fear i think we can all agree that life is less stressful without being ruled by priests who ensure you constantly have to appease a destructive omnipotent overlord with mortal sacrifices i also think it fits better with other cultural influences in argonian society that also seem to focus on the present and not worry about the future take the argonian language gel for example given to them by the hist gel lacks past and future tense verbs and is described as the language closest to thought this theme is then reflected in argonian's personalities and attitudes argonians are said to view life from birth to death as a single moment they obviously still perceive time in a typical sense but to them it is a limited way of perceiving reality an illusion made to form a linear version of events the lizardfolk are known to live in the moment and not to hold grudges for anywhere near as long as the other races it is better to forget and move on for to hate each other is to hate ourselves in this way you could argue that argonians are better off now at least mentally everything seems more congruent and by the fourth era there's no better time to be an argonian living a traditional life in black marsh the threats of the empire the old mary dominion and the dunmer are at an all-time low and if you're interested in hearing more on this check out scott's video on whether being an argonian is worth it linked below however even if the argonians live simpler happier lives now with much less to fear i can't help but point out that they are far less advanced in many areas so whether the new civilization is truly better off is hard to know and at the very least subjective the old argonians may have feared sithus more but there's no doubt that their structures are more impressive and more useful as i explained the xenmis have lasted for errors and some believe they were so widespread they even went up into southern morrowind there are even specific instances of bright yellow sun crystals called vacustones made from meteoric glass and similar to welcome stones being used by certain argonians who praised the sun ancient targonians were also more advanced with their crafting of weapons and armor where modern argonians prefer to make their gear from materials like bones scales shells and leathers the ancients preferred bronze and volcanic glass the ancients were skilled at working with metal but since then its use has become very rare war axes consisted of one or two large shards of volcanic glass mounted in a brass alloy and adorned with feathers dyed yarns and gold chest piece armor was almost entirely constructed from bronze splints argonian blades were made from a series of volcanic glass shards set in a beaten bronze channel the sharpness of their swords is said to be frightening and the prevalence of volcanic glass in so many weapons suggests that the argonians may have had trade connections with areas in morrowind or simply travelled there to gather materials we can't know for sure which is what makes it all the more intriguing furthermore notes on their shields in crafting motif 70 elder argonian style says maybe it was the way the glass teeth along the rim reminded me of a cog or the orange tinge of the shield's face or the boxy scrollwork but the answer to the nagging familiarity i felt with elder argonian work struck me like one of their maces dwarven influence black marsh may not have been as insular a province as it is these days while i'm not too sure about this take i think that if it were the case it would be truly sensational maces were largely made from bronze with angular designs geometric in fashion sithis iconography was also present in the form of emblems on certain belts and atop the bronze stars belonging to the priesthood of sithis such stars bore symbols of the great serpent sithus with sharp glass teeth used to spill blood in ceremonies but the advanced nature of their society does not stop there there are also examples of them having great and powerful relics in their possession and to think that there may have been more relics lost to time makes me very curious one dangerous artifact of great power is known as the fangs of sithus these could be used to destroy entire villages to turn crops to ash and create undead monstrosities out of the user's enemies it is said that wielding the fangs consumes your soul and drives you mad it gives you to sithus and casts all you are and all you could be into a great void the fangs consume the bearer's soul granting you immense power while stripping all that makes you a person there was also the case of an ancient targonian sorcerer who practiced dark art and decided to trap his power inside of a golden skull it was said to contain a powerful curse that would doom murkmire and vibrated with a strong arcane energy they also have a giant stone calendar the zincheikonu monument which could be used to change the weather the keeper of this calendar will tell you it would take a hundred tons a hundred years to speak all of the zincheiko new secrets it is one of the few remaining monuments from our days of stone nests so what changed what made the argonians gradually take on a new less advanced way of life over this period of decline called dusk fall well that in itself is the big mystery we have a good idea of what ancient argonians were like now and an even better idea of modern argonians but what happened in between is subject to speculation and only really described in a poetic fashion it has been said that the hist revealed the true path and the hist led the way we theorized in our argonians podcast that maybe the hist encouraged this new transition in thinking to make the argonians more reliant on them if the argonians became too advanced and maybe too spread out perhaps they'd need the hist less than ever before it is interesting that the modern argonians know very little about the dusk 4 period only the xanmirs and a few relics remain and clearly the hiss don't seem to have told the argonians everything that happened during dusk fall as they still don't have the full picture by the time of elder scrolls online the hist could also have rewritten history somewhat since then if they wanted to consider too that if argonians advanced too much and their civilization were to become too powerful perhaps it could actually pose a threat to the hist you see the way this could happen is the argonians get too ambitious invading other provinces regularly and drawing attention to black marsh making them look more threatening the hist hiding deep in black marsh might not want this they may want the argonians to look meek for the most part history has shown us that the hist allowed the argonians to be enslaved to be dominated in battles and treated poorly throughout the eras only when the oblivion crisis happened when the jaws of oblivion opened and daedra poured out did the hist decide to use their powers to make the argonians so strong they could defeat the enemy i theorize that this is because the daedra might be able to make their way to the hist whereas mortals find black marsh largely uninhabitable and can't really conquer the deepest parts of the province as a result furthermore it has been suggested that when argonians die their souls travel back to the hist with their memories some are unsure about how proximity to black marsh factors in but the idea is that the souls are returned to be given to new argonians and that the hist has access to the memories gathered which can be shown to the argonians to help them learn and you can only assume help the hist learn more about the world too so if the hist receive memories from the argonians perhaps they use them like involuntary spies an argonian telvani slave could be caged but hear of secret magic techniques being discussed the mages may assume this knowledge is incomprehensible to their scaly captive and they'd be right but the hist could understand and learn from it or an argonian beggar and cyrodiil living on the street may overhear the political plans of a drunk noble leaving the city who would think nothing of some poor beggar especially an argonian who seems not to be paying attention in this way the argonians could be seen as tools of the hist where the individual's life does not matter so long as the collective benefit of the hist really is served again we don't know how proximity affects things and in my interpretation of it all the hist would only receive the memories upon the return of the argonian soul so after they die anyway remember though don't assume that the hist necessarily want to gain advantage for themselves in order to take over tamriel they are survivors after all they survived the illness wars and they may really want to just keep the bulk of the argonian population nearby and relatively low profile the hist only seem to act when they are threatened by putting an emphasis on the temporary nature of life and teaching the argonians to embrace impermanence and live in these mud hut structures and so on the way of life of the argonians suits the hist perfectly argonians tend to stay in black marsh with tribes looking after the hist and not worrying about building advanced civilizations and far-reaching empires the marsh is the only defense they really need as far as the hist is concerned not zanmir's with magical protection so if the hist really did lead the way in the change maybe this is why another possibility is that the hist were forced to change argonian society after receiving some kind of outside information from an unknown source the history seemed to have forewarning about events before they happen like the oblivion crisis and they also knew of whatever events were to happen prior to dusk fall an example of this is one particular hist tree that took its tribe to cold harbor after striking a deal with molag bao a book on this can be found in the elder scrolls online titled how we came to cold harbor it talks about a history that told its tribe of argonians that a time of change was in fact coming and that argonian civilization as they knew it was coming to an end this history did not want this to happen and wanted the tribe to continue on with the same traditions and values and therefore made a deal with the daedric prince of domination never a good idea to me this confirms that dusk 4 was either planned by the hist themselves or was to be forced by some other events they would be unable to prevent regardless they knew it was going to happen before it eventuated maybe the hist needed a clean slate to keep the argonians as a non-imposing society and not grab too much attention from the tamrielic superpowers to come it's anyone's guess the hissed move in mysterious ways and based on the coldharbour story it sounds like they don't necessarily function as one big hive mind or something like that they seem to have a degree of autonomy in their decision making regardless of what happened all we know is what the argonians were and what they are now and i think we can all agree that while they've always had a close bond with the histories they are more reliant on the hist in their current civilization and their new way of thinking suits the hist trees perfectly i truly believe the hist are playing the long game here and it is ironic that these sentient trees seem to have taught the argonians that fear of death and focusing on permanence is silly all the while they themselves have always acted in the interests of their own survival of their own permanence it seems their own creations the argonians have conquered shunate where they have not and perhaps do not even strive to so there you have it many secrets of dusk fall are still secrets but we've learned a whole bunch of new law regarding ancient argonian society and its shift into the modern civilization the lizards and the hist live in harmony embracing the chaos of sithus knowing that destruction brings change and that change is not to be feared they have learned to flow with the river instead of struggling to alter its course so long as the hist survive right overall i enjoy this law courtesy of the elder scrolls online because it adds new questions to the mystery of black marsh while revealing new and fascinating information more questions were added than answered just how advanced were the ancients where did they get their volcanic glass and did they have any interactions with the dwemer are the argonians actually better off now did they even build the xanmirs some scholars doubt it how long was the decline was it part of a secret conspiracy done by the histories to make sithis a less central part of society and to make the lizards more reliant on their natural environment including their reverence to the hist questions questions questions as always thank you so much for watching this video i hope you enjoyed it as much as i enjoyed making it and i'm super grateful that you've listened to me talk all about this for so long i absolutely love the argonians and if you want more content like this love the argonians too or just think the video deserves it please do hit that like button and let us know what video you want to see next let us know what you think of the hist in the comments too social media links are in the description as is a link to our merch store if you want a sensational new tea or hoodie and want to support the channel and the content that you love my name is michael thanks for watching fudge muppet and i look forward to nerding out with you again very soon you

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Keywords: skyrim, skyrim lore, eso, eso lore, elder scrolls online, elder scrolls online lore, murkmire, argonian lore, argonian civilization, argonian xanmeer, xanmeer, The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim, the elder scrolls online, elder scrolls, elder scrolls lore, skyrim argonians, eso argonians, argonians, fudgemuppet, duskfall, hist trees, elder scrolls theories

Id: Je9q4aPt1xM

Length: 22min 41sec (1361 seconds)

Published: Sat Nov 07 2020