Nirn is the DAEDRIC REALM of Lorkhan - The Mythic Dawn Theory Explored - Elder Scrolls Lore

many are their names and the names of their masters the coloured rooms of meridia the pits of perite the spiral skein of mephala and dawn's beauty the princedom of lorcan misnamed tamriel by deluded mortals tamriel is just one more daedric realm of oblivion long since lost to its prince when he was betrayed by those that served him how is it that mighty gods die yet the daedra stand incorruptable how is it that the daedra forthrightly proclaim themselves to man while the gods cower behind statues and the faithless words of traitor priests it is simple they are not gods at all the truth has been in front of you since you were first born the daedra are the true gods of this universe julianos de bella and stendar are all lorkhan's betrayers posing as divinities in a principality that has lost its guiding light what a scholarship love and mercy when compared to fate night and destruction the gods you worship are trifling shadows of first causes they have tricked you for ages why do you think your world has always been contested ground the arena of powers and immortals it is tamriel the realm of change brother to madness sister to deceit your false gods could not entirely rewrite history thus you remember tales of lorkhan vilified a dead trickster whose heart came to tamriel but if a god can die how does his heart survive he is daedra tamriel a daydrop this heart is the heart of the world for one was made to satisfy the other you will remember this it is in every legend daedra cannot die so your so-called gods cannot erase him from your minds completely the champion of cyrodiil crossed the portal's threshold and was engulfed by blinding incandescents on the other side was gairalata mankar cameron's paradise bathed in an unending afterglow as the hero traversed the savage gardens and approached cameron's resplendent palace caracagaya law the realms lord spoke directly into his mind mancar cameron's revelations flooded the champion with profane notions of conspiracy and revolution but were they true or were they merely the ramblings of a fanatic the forbidden knowledge mankar obtained from dagon's mysterium saxes was no doubt intoxicating to his mortal mind but some secrets are best kept from the limited minds of men and myrrh and an ideologue can conjure correlation from thin air the leader of the mythic dawn explicitly claimed that tamriel nirn the mortal realm of mundus is actually a plane of oblivion just like dagon's deadlines tamriel is lorkhan's plane just as the shivering isles are shayagorefs but how could this be true wouldn't that mean that every mortal or nirn is a daedra everybody knows that mortals have souls while daedra only have vestiges when a daedra dies they are reborn from the void whereas mortal souls travel to their respective afterlifes to bask in eternal peace this distinction is crucial to mortals who are ever afraid of what awaits them beyond the brink the nords dream of sovengaard of tender spit-roasted meat and mountains of mead casks of song and battle the red guards dream of the far shores an eternal afterlife in a realm not too dissimilar to their sunken homeland of yokuda and you don't have to travel far and elsewhere to hear talk of the sands behind the stars of a paradise beyond the pale of the two moons where sugar dunes roll as far as the horizon and every patch of sand is warm enough to have every cat in the realm purring mancar cameron's notions therefore are an affront to every mortal's piece of mind and then there's the dream sleeve mankar mentions this in his mythic dawn commentaries he writes we mortals leave the dreaming sleeve of birth the same unmantled save for the symbiosis with our mothers but beyond that you've likely never heard the term dream sleeve before and i wouldn't blame you because it's not too well understood and not often mentioned even by those who do know of it by mancar's description and the information i'll elaborate on in this video the dream sleeve seems to be an intangible place where souls are housed until they are ready to be attached to newborn mortal hosts it is very reminiscent of the way daedra revert to the void before rebirth when they don't have a daedric wellspring to return to but i promise we'll expand on all of this soon enough hey guys it's drew here and welcome back to fudge muppet i think it's safe to say we're in for a bit of a journey in today's video the assertion that nirn mundus tamriel is a daedric realm with lorcan as its prince seems pretty absurd but there is a lot of evidence to work with that suggests not as all as it seems and there will always be problems of perspective when delving into topics like this almost everything we know about the elder scrolls universe is documented by mortals chronicled with the undeniable bias of mortals and contradictory ideas tend to come from sources outside our mortal understanding in this video we're going to go over all the evidence we have supplemented by some non-canon texts and by the end of it the idea that nirn is secretly a plane of oblivion won't seem so absurd we've heard plenty from mankar cameron already he's the key figure planting conspiracies in our minds after all so let's go over all of his claims when speaking to the champion of cyrodiil he's explicit in his claims in his mythic dawn commentaries things are a little more equivocal mankind was enlightened by the secrets written in the mysteriums arcses which mehrunes dagon wrote in the desert of rust and wounds each word razor fed in secret thinner than cataclysms tarnished like red drink and in his interpretation of this daedric artifact mancar referenced betrayal and revolution this is going to be confusing but we'll break it down after he writes about the creation of mayor and stagon in the bowels of league the domain of the upstart who vanishes and he wrote about the dawn times when a great rebellion rose up and pulled down the towers of kimmel garjig and the templars of the upstart were slaughtered now league is believed to be the parallel version of nirn that existed in a previous calper a previous cycle of the mortal realm the dawn era serves as the end of the previous calper and the beginning of the new calper menkar claims that in this past kalpa when there was no mundus only league the mortal realm of ligue was lorkhan's domain and dagon led a rebellion that saw the towers pulled down and lorkhan's followers slaughtered it seems that the oblivion crisis is mankar cameron's attempt to repeat this revolution in tamriel he also writes about a mysterious figure named maztiac there is speculation that this is a reference to the god of life and death rk but something about the description makes me think of lor khan he writes mazdak whose carcass was dragged through the streets by his own bone walkers and whose flesh was opened on rocks thereon and those angels who loved him no longer did drink from his honeyed eye cores screaming let all know free will and do as they will once again we have talk of betrayal and while there are basic enemies called bone walkers in the tombs of morrowind i can't help but think of the earth bones the aedra who aided lorkhan in the creation of mundus lorkhan is the dead or missing god and some scholars theorize that the two moons are his sundered corpse here we have mazdiak's carcass being dragged through the streets just as lorkhan was put on trial at the adamantine tower his flesh was opened just as lorkhan's chest was opened to remove his heart and then mazdiak's angels no longer drank from his honeyed eye cores just as the aedra no longer listened to lorkhan's honeyed words after they discovered his trickery the interpretation of that last quote is heavy speculation by me but this final line from the commentary seems much more clear in its meaning it reads first tower dictate render the mutant bound where he may do no more harm as god of the mundus alike shall be his progeny split from their divine sparks we are eight time eight exarchs let the home of padami see us as sole exit the first tower is adamantia where the convention was held the mutant is of course lor khan who was punished on the summit of the tower he is the god of mundus the prince of nirn and his descendants the mortal races were split from their divine sparks their immortality and who calls this split the eight exarchs in other words the eight divines an exarch is a lower-ranking religious title below the patriarch with these excerpts it is clear that mankar cameron believes nirn is lorkhan's plane and he was betrayed by the aedra his lesser servants when speaking to the champion of cyrodiil he says tamriel is just one more daedric realm of oblivion long since lost to its prince when he was betrayed by those that served him but what makes tamriel daedric and what makes lorkhan a daedric prince well according to mankar when the divines were weakened they were silenced and cower behind statues whereas the daedra lords stand incorruptable and commune with mortals one could argue that akatosh is an example of an aedra communicating with mortals when he came to alicia but as i suggested in my recent video on the true god of the empire that's anything but confirmed and i believe it was actually law khan who spoke to alicia mancar says that if a god can die how then does lorkhan's heart continue to beat after his betrayal because he's daedric the monomyth is the foremost source on the creation of the mortal realm and in it are lorkhan's own words spoken to his betrayers this heart is the heart of the world for one was made to satisfy the other at this point i think we've heard quite enough from mankar cameron so far there's been a lot of bold claims there's plenty of circumstantial evidence to create a truly inspiring conspiracy theory but now let's look into the similarities between lorkhan and the daedric princes between nirn and the plains of oblivion and between mortals and lesser daedra i just mentioned the quote about lorkhan's heart when auriel and trinimac tried to destroy it it laughed at them it couldn't be destroyed by these two immensely powerful gods but why not lorkhan said his heart was the heart of the world and that one was made to satisfy the other this sounds very similar to the way daedric realms exist the daedric princes designed their realms as extensions of themselves hence why they fit the specifications and aesthetics of the prince chai gorov's chamberlain haskell put it nicely in a couple of interviews in the first he said the realm of madness is rarely in order rather it is as shayagorath wills it and in the second he said inhabitants of the shivering isles are affected by time but we are not subject to it we are subjects of lord shayagorov who subjects us to whatever subjects he is in the mood to subjudicate because time is subjective with all of haskill's characteristic sardonicism stripped away he's basically saying that planes of oblivion are whatever their prince wants them to be nothing more nothing less if we look at the creation story for the mortal realm we know that mundus was a collaborative effort but lorkhan is the preeminent god of nirn and as he said it would not exist without him even after his supposed death he continued to be at the heart of all the realms major events excuse the pun and his will is always being carried out in one way or another even beyond the relationship between realm and ruler the physical nature of the mortal realm is in no way distinct from any plane of oblivion the interplay between the primordial forces of stasis and change anu and padamai created the orbits the orbis is the entire universe in the orbis there is the void which is the eternal darkness and then there are the various planes of existence including a furious mundus and the plains of oblivion so by that definition planes of oblivion are simply structured realms of existence that exist in the endlessness of the void mundus is no different just as a prince decides to create a realm of oblivion in the void lorkhan decided to create a realm of his own in the void the only difference is that he asked for help from the other original spirits before lorkhan and the atada created the mortal realm there was no such thing as aedra and daedra they were all original spirits the distinction only arose when mortals needed names for their ancestors and those who are not their ancestors this is where perspective comes into play lorkhan is no different to the daedric princes who create their realms and rule over their lesser daedra so he is only aedric as opposed to daedric because mortals say so from a mortal's perspective lesser daedra are bizarre alien creatures daedra understand the nature of their own existence and know they will be reincarnated mortals from mundus do not understand death this way but this is where things get even more interesting because in truth there really isn't a great deal of difference between mortal death and daedric death the key thing that separates a mortal from a daedra is the soul you know that thing we all have but can't really prove we have nor know quite what it actually means a soul is also called an annuic animus anuic as in anu the primordial force of order and animus being the latin for spirit daedra on the other hand have a vestige beyond the name the differences become ill-defined when a daedra is killed their vestige is sent back to the void the vestige is then attracted back to the plane of oblivion it formally dwelled in or alternatively a daedric prince may lay claim to the vestige and call it to their plane of oblivion for rebirth a daedra is not born through procreation like a mortal their birds and bees are a little different instead they are born from a substance called chaotic creation chaotic creature is unformed chaos that usually manifests as a luminescent liquid each plane of oblivion has a slightly different planar appropriate variation of chaotic creation but they all function largely the same way in molag bal's coldharbour for example chaotic creation takes the form of azuroplasm huge pools of ubiquitous blue hued slime liquid from this azuroplasm coalesces around the vestige until the daedra reforms according to the morphotype's inherent pattern but once again this is all subject to change based on the whims of the prince this is why daedra despite their innately chaotic natures tend to devote themselves to a particular prince in doing so they are given the security to be reborn in a familiar form in a familiar place other examples of chaotic creation can be seen in the oriole and masculine wellsprings located in the shivering isles another more controversial example is amber plasm which can be found in the mortal realm and enters black marsh through the his trees argonians believe they return to the hist when they die submerging themselves in the sap and it is also believed that argonians inherited their humanoid forms from his sap a substance that glows with the same incandescence as europlasm only amber instead of blue sounds an awful lot like the way daedra are born and how they die but i'd argue that the similarities between daedra and mortal goes further than just argonians i said that daedric vestiges return to the void when they die and here they await rebirth at a wellspring within a daedra lord's domain well let's compare that to the notions of afterlife and the dream sleeve for soulful mortals mancar cameron refers to the dreaming sleeve as the place all mortals leave when they are born into the world every other canonical mention of the dream sleeve comes from early entries into the series like battle spire in arena in these games the dream sleeve seems to be a medium for communication between powerful mages it is the non-canon sources that elaborate on the concept in more detail kirkbride describes the process of communicating via dreamsleeve as carrying images of concepts that are not yet real in the same q a we find this line neo-nymbiosis is just the process by which one assumes a new name that binds them to a realm disconnecting them from the normal cycle of life and death in the dream slave the daedra do this naturally as it is in their nature the ability for mortals to do this was a central part of mankind cameron's theology in creating the paradise i'm not going to get into protonimics neonamics and the power of true names in the elder scrolls but the key takeaway is that the dream sleeve seems to have a clear connection to the cycle of life and death and daedra have a much greater understanding of this cycle than mortals do another source which is an archived forum post offers the explanation that the dream sleeve is simply a place where mortal souls are recycled they enter upon death and return in a new vessel it's the spiritual location where souls await reincarnation as i mentioned a lot of this information comes from outside of the official canon but if it's accurate which seems likely then the similarities between daedric death and mortal death are striking a daedric vessel travels to the void to await rebirth while a mortal soul travels to the dream sleeve to do the exact same thing on the other hand daedra can be fast tracked to specific wellsprings of chaotic creation where they reform as the same daedric race alongside their kin this sounds a lot like the mortal afterlives nordic souls travel to the same place savangard where they enjoy eternal bliss with their countrymen but what if the afterlife isn't eternal there are theories that the hall of valor is where shaw rallies the most powerful human souls before they eventually return to nirn for a glorious battle the red guards seem to have a firm grasp of the notion that the afterlife is a reincarnation waiting room it's written into their creation story this creation myth tells of satikal the world worldskin satyakal is the self-eating serpent the auroborus the infinite cycle of death and rebirth as satikal ate itself over and over the strongest spirits learned to bypass the cycle by moving at strange angles they called this process the walkabout a way of striding between the world skins ruptger was so big that he was able to place the stars in the sky so that the weaker spirits might find their way easier this practice became so easy for the spirits that it became a place called the far shores a time of waiting until the next skin with this in mind it seems that the afterlifes are associated with the dream sleeve and if the yokudans are right in their beliefs then mortals are not so different to daedra in what happens to them after death the notion that aedra and daedra are somehow diametrically opposed that the mortals of mundus and the daedra of oblivion are alien to each other seems ridiculous when we consider all of this information the only difference between the aedra and daedra is one decision did they lend lorkhan some of their power in realizing his endeavor to create a realm of his own it's a tiny distinction and mortals will always cling to the defense that they have souls and daedra do not thus they are nothing alike but whether you call it an anewic animus or a padamic vestige the differences are almost entirely dictated by perspective and not by anything tangible i'm not saying mankar cameron's bold claims should be taken as gospel but at the same time they shouldn't be neglected altogether a final thought i want to include comes once again from michael kirkbride when asked about the plausibility of mankind's assertions he writes in all fairness there's enough evidence to support mancar's claims that i was happy that it went in the idea really flips the notion of tamriel on its head imagine the oblivion realm of attribution share for example with eight powerful daedra one of which is boefia wielding divine power over their realm and all their subjects bound to the whims of that power now imagine it with creation myths as complicated as anything on tamriel where the myriad mortals of nirn were in fact daedra this realm would be surrounded by the void just like tamriel and who's to say that the big hole known as the sun doesn't hit their shores as well lorkhan the padamic could be exactly what the mankind says he is the dead lord of a lost daedric realm whose gods are powerful liars could it be that law khan is the daedric prince of tamriel a mortal simply his daedric followers and did his aedric allies betray him claiming the mantle of nirn's princes for themselves i'd say the answer to all of the above comes down to perspective we know from the creation stories that lorkhan is the god of tamriel we know that he created mortals with the aid of some other original spirits and we also know that lorkhan was betrayed at the convention when his chest was torn open by trinimac and his heart was fired long into the sea by auriel but that concludes what has been one of the wackier fudge muppet law topics i hope you enjoyed it i hope it's given you the inspiration to look a little deeper into this blasphemous theory i'm going to avoid hoping too much though as it could lead me into worshiping the prince of hope entering the domain of lord daegon thanks for watching guys my name is drew this has been fudge muppet and i'll see you in the next one you

Channel: FudgeMuppet

Views: 243,326

Keywords: skyrim, elder scrolls, elder scrolls lore, skyrim lore, fudgemuppet, oblivion, oblivion lore, daedra

Id: uJNkLR4rQZM

Length: 22min 28sec (1348 seconds)

Published: Sat Nov 28 2020