Ranking the Daedric Princes from BEST to WORST | The Elder Scrolls Podcast #2

[Music] what is up ladies and gentlemen welcome back to fudge muppet i'm scott and i'm here with michael and drew as always and today we're ranking the daedric princes a bit of a fun one today so let's before we get into it let's talk about the parameters real quick so we're ranking them based on a combination of power influence aesthetic appeal x factor their realms their daedric minions their artifacts their stories it's just going to be a big subjective sort of session because we didn't want just to make it like oh what's the most powerful most influential we want to sort of you know basically determine our favorites but we've kind of got to agree to try and make this list yeah for sure but i thought it might be a good idea if we start with the bottom tier we'll try and group them into tears sort of a bottom middle and top tier and then once we get to the top we'll then sort it out from there and try and find the best so bottom tier suggestions let's hear it i'm going to jump straight in and say even though there's some cool stuff to talk about with all of them and that is an important thing like they're all very cool but i think we can safely put peritect into the bottom i assume that would be the first name mentioned yeah i love my boy period i'm gonna have to defend him go for it all right all right well do you want to do you want to say why so uh you know kind of well well i i would even though the whole weakest stage of prince and stuff is all like debatable and so on and i agree with that i just think overall things like natural order and the sort of pestilence and stuff like that are just kind of boring and we don't get a lot of period exposure really like there's the cool like yeah the little vomit afflicted guys spell break is a pretty cool artifact but it's kind of more you know how it's more dwemer related anyway like i never really think of oh perry art when i think spellbreaker um so i don't know i just think he's born yeah he's yeah he could be interesting but from what we've seen of him he's just you know yeah he's not primed well i mean as you as you've already mentioned it's like it's so important to say right now before the thousands of people you know say we've got it wrong but basically there's no such thing as strongest they're not like humans they don't really pay attention to what we think is power they're all you know we can't really understand them the same way it's not like looking at a king so you know we understand that but we're kind of you know be pointless if you just said ah nothing matters anyway we've at least got to try and kind of you know look at them and another disclaimer too is that even though we're putting them into lists and there's going to be some at the bottom the daedric princes at as a whole are pretty cool like compared to other girls like hates the other aedra like xenother or something way more boring compared to um the daedric princes so even the bottom tier ones are still like the daedra uh like honestly some of those interesting parts of the elder scrolls law in general so even though if we put them at the bottom that doesn't mean we hate them they're just you know not as cool as something yeah yeah and i really like perrier like i think perryite is cool but mostly when i look at perite i think of potential like i think perry i especially being so unexplored has a lot of potential to be one of the coolest or a cooler one but as it stands like all we have to go off is what we know in the law what we've seen happen the experiences we've had and i just don't think there's enough content out of periart which is part of the reason why periodize interesting is because he kind of works in the background anyway you know keeping things in natural order and wiping things out with disease if need be um kind of goes against jiggle agg's idea of determinism though because if it's really the natural order you shouldn't have to do anything if you know what i mean like if natural order is just cause and effect yeah but then it also depends on like the diff the distinguishing the the difference between like natural order or jiggle lags idea of water like you know how you can see is like order as in like civilization and like perfection and logical and like you know put into boxes and casts and categories and all that kind of stuff is like some real heavy sort of order themes there whereas like natural order is kind of yeah so if i'm going to stick up for period it's like i i kind of agree he's he is bottom here but just to throw him a small bone so that we can't like definitively say he's you know terrible um the idea of natural order at least my interpretation of it when i was talking about periyat in a video was that if if that's going to plan then you shouldn't really be paying attention to it if that makes sense so if if everything is progressing normally and nobody's thinking about periyate then then that's his natural order in action so it's him being successful he wants to operate behind the scenes if he gets involved a lot then his natural order is being taken over by you know say his own ego or getting involved and being you know talking to models a lot then you're kind of interrupting your own natural order so that was a i see what you mean i see what you mean yeah yeah well it's settled the most terrible day well i think it's also worth saying at least he has that title task master which is interesting like he deals with all of the more actually i guess it's kind of boring all of the more menial uh plane of oblivion tasks that the other daedra don't deal with you know he keeps things running yeah he's what is that like uh i don't know his front desk or something yeah things don't work without the little guy doing the the the stuff you don't pay attention to you know so that's yeah but you but you don't put the janitor at the top of the list yeah well since we've mentioned um jiggerlag already let's talk about jiggalag because for me at least i think he's cool he's got cool like order aspects and so on and like his whole like interaction and stuff with shea gorath and his backstory is cool but if you actually look at him it's kind of boring like he's just kind of just knights of water we're just plain we're just like it's a cool cool aesthetic kind of look but i wouldn't be worshiping gigolo no i think worshiping jiggalag is a terrible idea you basically i believe lose free will in the way that you know it's commonly understood so you end up just as a mindless knight of order i guess and yeah it's not very it's kind of yeah i i just think a lot of people like him but i don't know i think he's bottom tier for me i don't know what do you guys think well i think people generally think he's very powerful because i mean obviously you've got the story of the daedric prince's coming together to screw him over basically and turn him into shay gorath but um i mean i might come off as the contrarian in most of these just because it's fun and that's what i do but um i like uh when i was thinking about jiggle ag he's kind of trying to establish order in oblivion which is just naturally so chaotic it's like you can't really put order to all this chaos and then you've got the grey march which is his bringing order but then every time he does it it counts for nothing he has to do it all over again and that's kind of the definition of insanity as well so they're doing the same thing over so you know it's kind of like he was always destined to turn out as shared and be completely mad see i i think so much the problem with jiggle lag is so much of his appeal hinges on the fact that he and joe gorath were once one thing but like in the contemporary time like fourth era they're like officially split into different beings so jiggle lags kind of just like this boring order thing off and and you don't we don't hear about him anymore or you know he just doesn't have this he's his coolness to me at least is dependent on his relation to shay agora yeah i i 100 agree if anything that could be one of the factors we talk about later as to why shay gorath will rank highly i mean i can already see that meme like the virgin jiggalag and the chad shay gorath and on jigalag's side it's like tries to invade always fails like yeah he believes in constant order everything stays chaotic well i i think we'll go with gigalag periart in the by the way actually regarding periodite real quick we've always said periodic but um could you also say per-yite uh i mean like we always go like periodizing like peri-peri chicken but you could you could go like per yard like that would also i'm sure it's pronounced in the game as perry yeah yeah you're making me question myself just by associating it with perry perry chicken but i'm pretty sure it's periodic i just can't go down the rabbit hole of making sure you pronounce these really obscure words perfectly it's like come on it doesn't matter that much you know exactly who we're talking about so it's fine well the thing is as well is that in game and it's kind of annoying is that the voice actors pronounce different things differently so you'll often have people like oh you're saying it wrong because they heard one character say it but then another character will say it completely differently in the same game don't even get me started on elder scrolls online yeah nerevarine yeah yeah oh especially when it's a zora 2 like a really someone who should know how to say it and azura comes out and says the nerevarine and i'm like [Music] hit us with another bottom one one that's gonna be in the bottom i'm gonna say um probably namira like obviously namira is they're all interesting like people will listen they'll be like what's the good daedra what's the boring daedra like they're all cool uh but i feel like for me at least the mirror would be in the lower end of things just because yeah it's like disease and and well not the gross stuff and slugs and cannibalism and i do like when it kind of draws on like the part of her that i find more appealing is the kind of like ancient dark yeah that's what i was going to say her sphere is literally the void the ancient darkness so it's it's kind of a bit mysterious there's cool parts and also it kind of also this is the thing we have to kind of factor in but with some of the daedric princes their appeal increases when it's through the lens of certain other cultures like some of the khajiit view of numira is interesting and that's the same goes um for a bunch of the khajiit views on certain um gods that makes them more interesting but it's the same as like how even you know azura boethiah are far more interesting through the eyes of the dunmer versus others and so on you know for sure for sure i mean really interesting through the eyes of the khajiit as well like in small nuanced ways so i totally get what you what you're saying but i i generally i think i still do agree in terms of there's not like even in in the games and stuff there's not as much like if you do the i'm pretty sure um they said there's the cannibal one in skyrim i actually forgot the morrowind one the oblivion one was when you go and you're just killing some priests or something and i remember drinking the wine to get your personality really low so you could do a quest but like she there's not a big x factor compared to some of the others like there are going to be some which we'll get to but uh the one thing about nimira as well is her followers aren't really going to be doing much like you say you talk about marron's dagon his followers are going to be trying to change the world trying to destroy the world or whatever but namira's followers as you can kind of see in the oblivion quest it's like they're just kind of dirty and they just want to hide in the dark and you know they're filthy and if if someone tries to liberate them or you know turn their lives around then namira's like nah kill those priests i want my followers to suffer the beggar story is cool as well the one where the it's a it's a wood elf weedle prince or noble or something i remember that's the biggest mistake i've ever made on the channel was i made a joke about weedle evolving into metapod but that's another story and i'd i knew i was going to get so much crap for that yeah i i reckon the mirror is safe because we're gonna we're gonna try and get through some of the bottom and mid-tier ones quicker because we're gonna need a lot more discussion for the top yeah for sure just quickly the reason you didn't you don't remember namira in morrowind is she didn't actually appear in morrowind aside from being mentioned in books and some npc dialogue at least that's what i'm reading now because i couldn't remember it either i'm like what was namira's quest in um in morrowind there you guys yeah namira it was one of the daedric princes who did not appear in morrowind so that's why i mean i do i do like some of the um in the reachman law i like how there's a few daedric princes there and namira's one of them they potentially revere and i like and namira also has some cool connections to hagravens but it none of these a lot of this is like um you know interpretation and so on it's not as like oh solid 100 it's got to do with namira but if if she does sort of lean into the sort of hagraven kind of um dark ancient darkness magic kind of stuff and that would be cool but we just don't have enough like confirmation i guess there's cool stuff with namira but this is the thing once again there's going to be cool things with all the daedric princes but we're trying to make a subjective list to try and get to the drew what's what's your what's your next offering for the bottom i think bottom tier i'd put meridia there me too yeah okay i i agree i do like the reason i do is because of the aurorans and umaril the unfeathered and her general connection with the aylids and so on actually meridia is a good example just to um because people go oh she's a magnet which is technically well she was true but and we basically want to talk about like oh just real quick what a daedric prince kind of is and really it's basically someone it's basically the most powerful daedra who run something in oblivion and technically she was a magna gee but she sort of um came back and settled in oblivion and made her own realm so she's kind of a daedric prince but um yeah i mean i'm only just thinking about this so i could be wrong in some aspects but i guess it comes down to the initial definitions of aedra being our ancestors so the ancestors to mortals and daedra being not our ancestors so if the magne even though magnus and you know the god of god of magic and all of those guys were really involved in the creation they they left just when it was convenient so they're known it's kind of like where do you the problem is drawing the line between like at arda like original spirit and then when do they become adrian yeah like do they did they have to stay in mundus to be classified as adrian but then again you would consider magnus as an aedric entity or like people do but that just might be a you know loose definition like there's there's wiggle room because in the same way um trinimac was an aedra and if you buy into the whole story that he was um eaten and pooped out and turned into malacath who was a daedra do you know what i mean it kind of it makes it a little bit and then you have hermes mora who's a daedric prince despite the idea that he was created from the leftover scraps of creation creating the world so yeah it's it's hazy for him as well i feel like the firmest because there is there's a lot of little exception kind of stuff on the corners of of um the definition but i feel like if you just go they're super powerful daedra they have an oblivion realm to themselves they're sort of like a daedric prince as they are called you know it's not um yeah so basically yeah meridia's running um it's it's the colored rooms or something isn't it in um but yeah i guess there's not in eso she has some more um stuff that she's done a little bit pushing a little bit more of the um evil side like if you're looking at oblivion especially like she's her quest isn't that interesting and she's not necessarily like and it's she seems more typical through just some of the quests we've done for us she's like oh i hate daedra and undead kill them like dawnbreaker's cool and so on even in skyrim but it kind of seems a bit more typical but where she's more interesting is all the connection to the aylid kind of stuff and how she's you know yeah kind of you know and that's one of the reasons i think i remember zarek saying he hates her and says you know he's not a fan of her because he considers her kind of not too moral and another interesting thing i wanted to say about meridia was actually how she's all about the light you know like with dawnbreaker and and people say she's obsessed with the light of aetherius because this is what she was kind of cast out from when she became a daedra you know what i mean and that's she has this obsession with the place that she kind of because fell from but like was removed from her well her realm is kind of i think it's almost literally a reflection of a furious isn't it because i can't remember the exact terminology from the book i read but um the the idea was that when they were all going back up to aetherius she kind of shot off into oblivion using magnus some of magnus's light divine light or something like that so her realm is kind of a mimicry of a furious as well i'm not sure but in elder scrolls online it's like a big coral place like a coral reef and floating stones and stuff yeah so um she was thought to be one of the magnage that fled aetherius soon after the creation of mundus for supposedly consorting with illicit spectra she was cast out of aetherius and took the mantle of a daedric prince she created her own realm of oblivion known as the coloured rooms by bending and shaping the rays of light from magnus the sun um yeah so yeah but look she's cool i i also love i get this is this is law i'm i'm not uh just swearing for no reason but the shining is also what she's referred to as one of her nicknames along with the glister witch or lady of greed but i like that that whole element of meridia makes her more interesting rather than just the the light and it's a cool contrast too like this because a lot of people like associate like light with all of that holiness and kind of like you know get rid of the undead kind of thing but i like that you know she's just not necessarily a good person either yeah well something else to put on meridia's resumes you could say she's involved in the creation of mehrunes dagon as well uh refresh my memory i'm double checking to make sure i've got this right that she was still involved with the magna g but the idea was that mehrunes dagon was created in the battles of league by the magna gear yeah yeah yeah so you're is it explicitly that she's well i think i think it specifically says the magna gee but this i guess it would have been before they left they fled because i mean it's the dawn era so everything's a little bit shaky yeah and then there's all the league and the calpers yeah yeah which is not a tough place for now yeah yeah yeah we'll save that for other discussions but yeah we'll put her in the in the in the bottom tier as well i'll just add that so here's another suggestion and this will send um people who love orcs into a head spin but malacath in the bottom yeah you know i made a tier list before coming on the podcast and so far it is exactly my tier list like these are exactly the ones i've got i split it into four tiers but i mean you know yeah this is in all in tier four so far yeah um yeah just malacat malacas cool but there's not a lot to him besides i love orcs and ogres and and i was pooped out by another girl yeah i mean i love malikaf but any argument i make for him wouldn't be arguing that he's in any way more powerful than other daedric princes like i like the kind of patriarchal aspect of him where he's you know even though he was corrupted he's still somewhat honorable like trinimac before so you can you know talk about how you he maintained aspects of you know the hero champion of auriel but at the same time trinimac was never the most powerful entity ever anyway so even that argument wouldn't really push him up yeah although some people do debate that he was pretty um powerful trinimac that he is and then boethiah had to you know there's the idea that mafala came and stabbed him in the back when bowiefia distracted him or the other way around one of the two yeah that whole thing has a few versions of it i mean there's there's it's also worth just re-clarifying that this list isn't necessarily the most powerful it's it's also like the coolest oh like you know the ones that that really uh you enjoy there's going to be a default kind of bias because you're limited by the information available so for example like characters like you know mairen's dagon and molag bell and stuff they have way more exploration so there's a lot more to go oh yeah that's cool and that's cool and that's cool and they have all these cool elements whereas some of them like periap for instance doesn't have enough they have the potential to be higher like maybe in future games or future dlcs for eso or something they're explored um to a much larger degree and then that might push them up the ranking but we can only work with sort of what we've experienced so that there's a lot i mean something i really do like about malacath is that some consider him kind of like a daedra for for mortals you know like a anti-daedra daedra and and you can see that with uh the weapons scourge skirt because this banishes any daedra that you hit it with so scourge is like a i guess a mace forged with i think sacred ebony um in the fires of fickle dyer but i'm not sure if fickle died was ever explained yeah it is cool i i do like how when they sometimes um sort of well it's as is the case with meridian and malacath because they were kind of technically like adriaki sort of entities before becoming daedric princes it's cool that they sort of hang on to some of their anti-dangerous kind of like they don't they they've still kind of like with malacath he's still got that honorable sort of thing and that auntie danger through his um mace but then also like meridia's kind of got that you know she's obsessed with the sort of the stars and the aetherius like kind of stuff and she's like i hate undead but then you know what i mean there's that cool like little friction with their um and and similarly to periyate malacath has volandrong so another dwarven kind of ancient artifact which is cool but it it also especially in skyrim doesn't look particularly dwarven yeah it looks very daedric yeah yeah maybe it's yeah i mean it could be yeah um i i'm gonna offer up uh vamina as well for bottom two are we even in bottom tier we've already got five i mean if well there's there's 17 daedric princes so i feel like the bottom tier is kind of going to be it's got at least kind of be a third or a this moves up to tier three for me but yeah i mean it still makes sense it's still down the bottom yeah like i i would put vaemina there like it's cool the nightmare stuff i love her um interaction there's a story where uh sheogorath and vaimina try and make that dude insane that artist insane and um but shea gorath wins out there if anything it's kind of a story that sort of shows how cool cheogorath is but um yeah i don't know because he was like an artist and she sent him all these nightmares right to make him create all this like messed up stuff like what yeah but there's so so he for years and years and years this artist was getting all of these crazy nightmares making all of this really warped art and stuff and um it made him quite famous but also you know some people reviled him and so on but then shea gorath to win the bet in the next 10 years he simply did nothing he stopped because there were no more nightmares from vaemina so he did nothing so then he went the artist went insane because of the silence because he didn't have his inspiration or anything anymore so um it was a cool little twist i forgot the actual name of the story but i i remember that it's one of them i think it was um myths of shaya gorath perhaps could be because there are a few um but we'll get to shea gorath because he's not he's not bottomed here but do you agree drew yeah pretty much they mean are in the bottom not much to say about vermeena really yeah i would say that uh so what's that one two three four five six probably need a little more in the bottom tier like who else would you throw under the i you know what i'd actually suggest as much as people like i love his quest and stuff because hangover man i was going to say the same thing actually i also find his realms kind of boring i like his like because he doesn't have like a there's not like a nice airtight like here's my theme of my realm it's like i have billions of pocket rails yeah and they're basically whatever the individual mortar wants so it doesn't really have its own identity so you just imagine lots of bdsm realms lots of wall street basically drink again you know and it's like yeah cool but like you know he doesn't have that um oomph you know at least i think like he's he's got fun mission like quests but yeah i don't know they're cool like like i said these are all still cool but they're not enough to be like the top so one two three four five six seven i reckon we can we can start talking like what we would call like our middle tier so things that aren't going to be in the top but yeah so any suggestions for middle tee i actually just before we get into middle tier i have one thing to say and it was what i wanted to say before about the khajiit and sanguin and i just like how according to the writings sanguine's not evil by nature but his fear distracts khajiit from the path and like kind of seeks them to urge like to to follow their urges and pleasure without purpose and i just like that little nuance of how because you know how the khajiit are all into their moon sugar and stuff so for this danger it's kind of like oh he's not like really bad he's just a distraction i just found that really interesting but yes mid tier mid tier i'm gonna chuck in i would probably put nocturnal in mid-tier i would have put i mean this is all mid-tier but i was going to say if there was a bottom of mid-tier i'd put clavicus vial i think and i'd put nocturnal above him but i put them both in the middle tier personally yeah well here's where we'll go right let's just quickly put some in the middle to you then discuss further so clavicus file clavicus fire scene um yeah all right let's put her scene there uh what was the one you said just before nocturnal um um someone i've really got to like check my like dark elf bias or something were you thinking azura maybe or like one of them oh i i i'm gonna argue like well we'll try to a bit more because arguably things the problem azura um boethiah and mephala have a lot of mythology around them they have a they have like fact some of them have factions interacted with them but we have a because they were the anticipations of um almalexia so the cylinder they just have sort of a lot more to them um but yeah i yeah i feel like my father is a very me thing like wanting it to be higher i could i or to be honest though i could put boethiah in middle tier yeah so you'd put mafala i mean this isn't the conversation but you'd put mafala at the height of the good daedra you'd say she's the best of the three i think so but i also really like azura azura as well because i think she's got an interesting she's kind of interesting within the the dunmer but also outside of i think um i personally put azura at the top of the good daedra of those three azura is probably my favorite boeifee is mine yeah if anything i would actually put mafala at the bottom of the three for me it goes mafala to really like throw out their why real quick is if a mephala is because a the morag tong and the whole involvement with that also the whole dark brotherhood night mother sort of theories and all that kind of connection and also the anticipation of vivec and there's a lot of like cool little interaction and cross of themes and stuff that's fair so uh yeah um azura we'll hold on we'll get to this because i feel like a lot of the good yeah let's talk to them together after the middle tier well let's just okay let's do the first three clavicus file hersley and nocturnal let's talk clavicus file first all right coolest thing about him ombre the swordy that you had created for but then because a witch made that like naina were or something or i forget but basically and then umbra does the whole umbrella thing clavicus file is cool i like the theme and the the the bargains and stuff like that and also he's got a little bit more interest because he's kind of working against bob we're not against but like barbus is trying to reign him in all the time and barbus kind of is him like they're kind of yeah two sides of the same coin so to speak which i find really cool yeah um but yeah i guess a real middle tier kind of thing like uh can i also just say and i don't know if this is in the law or not just off the top of my head but today i was actually looking at umbra the sword right and it's a really cool black sword and it's like oh it was designed with the sole purpose of the entrapment of souls and then i'm like it's kind of just like a giant warped black soul gem if you wanted to look at it like that yeah even even in oblivion this kind of has a bit of like a crystalline yeah you know what i mean like the blade it's a you can really imagine it's a sword made of black soul gem stuff and like yeah i'm not saying that's canon um it's just what came to my head when i looked at it today i was like oh hang on that would make sense and i mean if we were to to consider the other day drug artifact too like the mask of clavicus vile has a cool story behind it and he's also a cool mask i just i think um yeah there are other reasons up there also he has the data realm clavicus files data realm i forget what it's called but i know it's got the scadafin and stuff all over and it's like fertile countryside this is bugging me out of it i should know what that's called but um i mean while we look i think one of the cool things about clavicus vile is he he naturally attracts the coolest stories wait what's it called fields of regret that's that's a cool thing too like just because like people regretting their bargains with him you know and but i think he naturally has really cool stories associated with him because because of the bargains he's kind of always putting himself at risk of getting himself into trouble and accidentally giving away his power and things because it's like one way i interpret interpret clavicus vile is he's not trying to trap you into you know screwing yourself over and giving you his soul all the time he he kind of likes people that challenge his wits a bit not just bootleg and ask for wishes he he wants to be challenged and then sometimes you know he's like a gambler an addicted gambler that he can he can actually really make a mistake and lose a load of power because he's constantly you know yeah patrolling with wits with mortals i mean if you get the winter sun mod for skyrim i highly recommend getting it you can actually if you worship him you get all these different packs that you can kind of pick as challengers that might be like murder five people within one hour and stuff like that which i think is really cool i also just wanted to say because it did sound right but wrong at the same time um his the his daedra the scarf and because scott you said skull dolphin and i'm like yeah that's a that's an elder scrolls thing and i'm like wait that's where you go that's a ruin with otaving right flying on his back yeah you probably said it because i said it to you the other day yeah yeah i meant scarf in the daydream yeah yeah yeah um other thing so you know clavicus file it says um and the weekend stuff like finds eternity to be boring and so on and that's another sort of like what joe was talking about like like the idea that he gets a kick out of tricking people that are really hard to trick like it's not like it has got to be a bit of like entertainment value you know if it's like i said doesn't just want bootlickers but um i can't remember if it's him uh but is he connected with the cyrodiilic vampire order because it says here to he's said uh known to be a patron of vampires gracing them with social stature reason and savvy yeah sounds super super familiar doesn't he give them one of his artifacts the bitter is it the bitter cup the bitter cup is actually i remember the bitter cup i i think he gives that to them unless i'm i'm mistaking it for a different artifact altogether but i think it is a different artifact just because i've just i've just looked up the bitter cup and it says it's just the quest in morrowind as far as i can see but yeah i do remember him being involved with vampires in cyrodiil specifically or perhaps it was just a theory people had and it got stuck in my head hold on we owe our successes and social stature our bond with vile makes us unique among our kind for his guidance steals our savage craving with reason and savvy for him we live admis admits mankind and twist them to our will from offices of power that's really cool so yeah i mean but still i still think solid middle tier but he does have some cool things going on with cleveland it's funny i actually had him in part of my top tier originally for all the reasons we've just said i just personally think he's really cool i mean we're allowed to disagree i i would place him i mean i would place him above nocturnal you can see once we've kind of um once we got a bit of a list we can kind of then like debate some of the placements um but well let's do nocturnal now um thieves guild nightingales nightingale llamas really cool um but yeah i don't know besides the sort of thief thing i like you know skeleton key is really really cool as well especially some of the more like interesting concepts about the skeleton key unlocking not just doors but places to like other realms so like in theory if you were super powerful you could use the skeleton key to do kind of mankind cameron type stuff like if you were super powerful like unlock doors to special realms and unlock they also there's also this concept of like unlocking your inner potential as corny as that sounds and getting like powers and and stuff like that as well because if you're purely talking about artifacts you could argue that she's the best if you're just talking about oh yeah but yeah there's a lot that kind of i mean one thing i like about nocturnal is you kind of get the idea that you know she's this edgy emo like lord of the darkness or whatever but i've always associated her darkness with the shadows the idea is that her darkness is supposed to be useful you know you're not you know it's for thieves to use and the other thing is that because her followers are thieves it's more like their business associates than actual worshippers or followers yeah and she grants some good luck as well which is interesting you know like luck as a concept hmm yeah and they're talking ravens and stuff is cool like a little talking crows and so like that's just a cool like aesthetic thing and then she also has the most cleavage it's good for thumbnails and the cowl of nocturnal which we all know is a super super cool thing and the bow of shadows if you remember from morrowind making you invisible and and having increased speed and stuff like that and that bow has gone between a few different characters uh throughout the elder scrolls timeline i believe that dram is one of them yeah the assassin in red guard yeah yeah but uh yeah i i guess nocturnal middle tier pretty con pretty confirmed all right so next one uh let's do her scene okay her scene um he's really cool i i know drew you i love this game quite a bit he's great yeah um obviously he has the whole we're beasts thing going for him um he's also got a whole dlc for himself in elder scrolls three blood moon we get a decent amount of exposure to him but uh i don't know there's cool stuff like hunter and so on but you know it's still a kind of a basic theme like it's cool it's all really cool but it's nothing um it doesn't really apply to a lot of things outside of that sphere you know what i mean like it's very just like oh hunters yeah it's it's very important and not super deep i guess for lack of better words i think what i like about her scene is kind of similar to what i like about clavicus vile is that the you know the aedra seem very rigid they're your gods who you worship but what i like about the daedra is their kind of willingness to just play around it's fun to meddle with the mortal realm and her scene like clavicus vile i get the idea that he's not cruel and he like if someone is his prey he's not just gonna like butcher them for no reason he likes to have the competition and the competition you know you have to give your prey fair treatment so they they actually have a chance to win and i feel like if someone beats him and you know takes his hide or whatever he's actually really happy about it yeah yeah he's a good sportsman yes that's what i like about him but then again he wasn't so happy when shay goriff beat him no but show giraffe's a hat it kind of reminds me that uh the story between shea gorath and her scene has her scene like they have a battle i think of beasts and her scene has like a big i think it's a weird day drought and yeah gorath just makes this bird which just flies around dodging all the attacks and chirping basically makes it kill itself right one one thing that is just a theory about that which i find really cool is there's this artifact called the spear of bitter mercy and people say it's forged by mehrunes dagon some people say it's the signature um weapon of her scene but interestingly i believe in morrowind you can get it from ashaya gorath quest kind of hinting that perhaps he won the artifact from her scene in that bet yeah yeah definitely um in reality multiple sp because he often has um says little to nothing known about the spear that he the spirit bit of mercy um in reality multiple spews exist and they were said to be forged by marines dagon yeah and then at least one of them became the signature of his ally hers oh yeah so maybe um maybe there's a few of them and i don't know if like shea gorath's one is his it could be easily yeah for sure i just heard the theory and i thought it was cool like i just think it's one of those things worth mentioning like if they had a bet often like you know usually with bets there's something to win i remember for writing the reachman law video there was a really cool uh there was a really cool book and it was about it was just it was just in reference to him and i was talking about all of like her scenes holy aspects and there's all like there was like the aspect of of the hunter which is sort of him with a spear and then there was like a pretty show it was like a bare one and i think even a hair like a there's a there was a basically a few different things and one of them was like a werebeast or something but there are there are some really cool pieces with her scene her scene doesn't like it's cool because the reachmen are one of the few i think cultures that sort of have him in there like pantheon sort of like otherwise he's usually a select sort of hunter's outside thing you know what i mean and he's you know savior's hired he's cool as well i mean he's in killing a unicorn he's in the kitchen and bosma kind of um yeah true sorry yeah more often yeah but yeah i think he's he's a pretty firm middle tier despite any i mean he's got a sick aesthetic appeal um like i i just think like that i prefer there's depictions of him and eso with like a proper deer's head but i do like the bone deer head better i think but um yeah so her scene there all right let's so what else we got what about homeosmora let's actually discuss him as maura because i like do you think he's a top or a mid or uh i feel like if you're bringing his um realm of oblivion into it he would be right up the top yeah i mean that's fair and bring it in i mean you also get a lot of interaction with him um and knowledge is really cool yeah like um but yeah i i personally i don't know i think and black books and stuff yeah it's cool i guess i i guess maybe i'm just sort of like bored of him that makes sense but i i kind of i do he probably belongs there so yeah what else have we got what what do we recommend i was just gonna say yeah like the ogre infinium super cool like all the black book powers are super cool the concept that he doesn't actually create really any knowledge he just kind of steals it all and hoards it for himself and you know you can go to his realm and unlock all these different secrets so much as you don't go insane he's also a connoisseur of japanese media let's discuss boethiah then let's discuss boethiah because drew mate make your case for putting him in the top tier versus what i think i mean i kind of i'm biased because i like all of anything done with related and boethiah is hugely important to to vel off and all that are really it's hard for me to to sort of tear up the the good danger well i mean i'll have to like double check with the texts and you might be able to tell me if i get anything wrong here but i feel like of the good daedra when the kaima first became the changed ones and moved to morrowind or resdayne as it was called then bowiefield was behind most of it he was the like the kind of catalyst for the change the the azura and my father were involved like azura i think help them build their homes i hope i'm not getting that bit wrong but i think what was that i think it was i think sometimes there is a bit of a weird stuff i think it's both mafalo and boethiah in different instances are credited with the formation of the great houses though i think it is i think i would give i would give credit i think azura was behind the the like the idea of the changed ones the kind of the thing right well i mean uh this is kind of i guess i'm bringing subjective ideas into it but i think i'd associate their political formation with mafala because the idea of lies and deception as your way to get the political upper hand i associate that with mafaala i associate with boefia the idea of changing because um i mean obviously bowiefy is the one who shamed tr shane trinimac but then also bowiefia kind of gives them the idea that um which is at the foundation of dunmer and kaima people is that the mortality is a test so it's all about getting good and overcoming it and kind of reaching apotheosis by beating mortality essentially well i could throw in this for you is um they do it was the that um they believe azura is their god ancestor who taught the chimer how to be different from the ultima though some of those can be attributed to boethiah and other texts and so on i feel like it's a bit of a communal job with that like they're all um doing it but um obviously azura plays a bigger part with the nerevarine stuff but that kind of that's like later in the history uh boethiah does have a golden katana which is uh pretty cool oh yeah gold brand is cool there's also fear struck which was this shield that you hardly know anything about yeah there's a cool mod yeah we know i think it was destroyed it was like lyricius's shield destroyed or melted instantly when fighting a dragon or something and then he convinced the dragon like to let him polish one of the scales it couldn't reach and then like stabbed it yeah you know what i kind of think as a little exercise to sort of i guess that's unfair then they'll knock out my father too but like how is boethiah outside of the darkhealth stuff i mean she created the all okay it's pretty pretty um important and created the orcs really inadvertently like by consuming trinimac and pooping him out and that you know some say that's a super literal take but it's my take yeah it's juicy it's fruity it's interesting um well a lot of boeifeira is just enjoying watching mortals fight to the death and then choosing the most powerful mortal to be her champion or his champion ebony male 2 is really cool i i like actually one thing that makes boethiah more interesting is i like that in that whole trinimac story um she's kind of like defending law khan's honor like sort of seems to lack lorcan and like be um and that's one of the reasons for um screwing over trinimac because of the watch i think i can't remember the quote exactly but it's something along the lines of um the lies that trinimac was spreading about law khan something like that yeah i'm pretty sure i'm going to see if i can pull up my source but um yeah i mean as the last i think there is a ton of law with the three good daedra over the dunmer there's just a lot of stuff yeah if you think um but if you think in oblivion like if you would actually like break down the quests for example in oblivion and even skyrim they're not that crazy good like go into an arena fight a bunch of people you know go kill this wood elf dude in in um in the ebony mail i don't know yeah well so in the changed ones boefia specifically says the ultima we're taking the missing god aka lorkhan's name in vain um and then i mean if you're looking at just that source because it's talking about bowifia it kind of gives believe you're all the credit so you know told the mass the mass of people gathered the triangle truth the rule of psijic endeavour how to build houses how to change your skin how to achieve exodus all of this kind of gets directly attributed to boethiah but it's obviously as you've already said kind of it's an effort it's the combined efforts of all of them has some cool khajiit law too which is i'm actually less familiar with um but i love the uh bowethra warrior of the east and west i love that sharp tongued kijiti deity an ancestor spirit and teacher of old ways she is the mate of mephala um but uh additionally khajiit will not speak her name on the nights of the ghost moon nights in which it is said boethra wears the death shroud of lorkhaj and wages war beyond the lattes lattice the good old lunar lettuce every time i read that that's what i read i've actually really got it because that's the newest elsewhere eso sort of stuff um gotta really look into that i reckon we should make a video on that do a bit of research but actually there's a lot of cool oh there's there's stuff there with like the daedra and different interpretations 100 yeah but still i i'm struggling like i mean it's cool to put them in the top do you know what i mean i i don't know i just feel it gets hazier towards the top all right i'm gonna i'm gonna chuck boethiah in the middle t yeah do that for now can i can i have a super subjective one which you guys will will do a good job of saying how cool he is but for me subjectively in terms of you know what gets me going i find molag bao to be middle tier even though there's like all the interesting stuff i just i i find i actually a little bit probably because of elder scrolls online but a bit typical like i'm evil i dominate i'm bad i'm here with my my dark anchors and my you know necromancer helpers like vampires the vampire whole thing yeah it is still a solid middle tier outside of that he is um i guess what i would say is more like bal is um one dimensional his rather very clear intent purpose domination that's my thing and then it's kind of like applied to everything but it doesn't do you want to mean like some of the other ones i mean some that we've even put in the bottom tier have a little bit more of a diverse character yeah but more like battle is still pretty cool like there is a ton of info especially because of elder scrolls online added to him but yeah i just wanted to come out break the ice and say i think molag bao belongs in the middle city funnily enough and i and i think drew will think this is really cool because i actually used to think it was more typical maroon's day gone but when you look into marines dagon he's really really really cool and i i thought you were about to say mayor and stay gone so i was geared up ready to go like yep let's go marion's day gone and it's like no more val it's like yeah i kind of it automatically weakens a prince just to have them fail to invade tamriel because mo like about being defeated by the the vestige i think is the name of the protagonist in eso in inherently is gonna make him seem less powerful unless cool i mean you know he's the prince of domination but he got beaten in a 1v1 although i think he had a few other people helping but still you know he lost so he can't be that good yeah and that differs to mehrunes dagon uh because if you really dive into mehrunes dagon being about revolution and change him invading in the oblivion crisis changed everything yep so in a way even though he lost he actually kind of won uh which compared to mo like bao you can't say the same thing because molag bao wanted to win to dominate to be in control like it's kind of a different theme yeah we've got a video on the channel that compares both of the invasions and that's that's i mean i don't want to spoil it but it kind of comes down to that the mayon's dagon so long as he incites change he he can't really lose plus he came a lot closer anyway his his overall sphere has more character to it there's different things like it's not just the destruction but the the whole revolution thing is is a really vital component of him but let's um so basically i think we've got five more um we can put another one in the middle tier if you wanna we could just kind of like settle does this well let's just say let's list off the last ones remaining and say does this sound top tier or would you put one on the bottom so azura hermeasmora mehrun's dagon mafala and shayagorath i think that's a fair top five yeah yeah fair topic yeah yeah especially when you can sell me on mephala better than i can sell myself so that's why i i agree after hearing because there's parts you forget like especially when you talk about like vivec and stuff it gets it gets more interesting yeah all right let's um let's make sure we've kind of go we'll go into these a bit more um and make sure we've got uh well let's start with meiron's dagon that's a that's a top-tier kind of one yeah okay so um we've had a lot of exposure um i mean i've never personally played battle spy but i get the the gist of it but um and obviously oblivio oblivion as well um and you've got all the mythic dawn commentaries which adds heaps to them the whole um the whole magnet the whole idea that he's birthed in league but i'm created by the magnet gee first as a um as this being of like hope and revolution and i'm pretty sure um drew correct me if i'm wrong it's to overthrow the um drag tyrants at that time and that's what he was designed with he's kind of almost like a super weapony kind of vibe thing do you elaborate well i mean what i think one of the coolest things about marion's dagon is the idea that he's at one point in time he can be you know your worst enemy um and then he's your best friend it's all about who he kind of he represents the bottom whoever's on the bottom he's the perfect tool to kind of just i mean really he's kind of the the communist revolution um prince because the idea is whoever's suffering or whoever wants to just topple what exists call on mehrunes dagon because he's all about you know the hope of the the the downtrodden and you know so and that's what kind of like makes him interesting that he can sort of it's kind of the underdog kind of thing in the revolution like but he can be you know your enemy or your best friend but like from some perspectives if you didn't like the empire and you didn't like the current sort of go with tamriel and the time of the oblivion crisis then he's appealing and that's how all those mythic dawn came about because they were promised sort of like this new realm where he combines them and like i'll read the it's the mythic dawn commentaries four i'll try and get through um mondex uh mondex terrine which um is referring to mundus i'm assuming was once ruled over solely by tyrant dreg kings each to their own dominion and border wars fought beneath uh between their slave oceans they were akin to the time totems of old yet evil and full of mockery and profane powers no one that lived did so outside of the sufferance of the dregs um give my soul to the magna gees sayeth okay hold on oh basically mehran's for they created mehrunes the razor in secret in the very bowels of league the domain of the upstart event yeah and um though they came from diverse waters each gets shared sole purpose to artifice a prince of good spinning his likeness in random swath and imbuing him with oblivion's most precious and scarce asset hope and then there's a bunch of other stuff but basically it's a cool so um a great rebellion rose up and pulled down the towers of kim el garjig and the templars of the upstart were slaughtered look there's a lot of poetic stuff here but essentially he rose up and helped um depose the drag kings and that i like too that that that those tyrant drag kings are referenced in the 36 lessons of vivec as well in all of the dunmer mythology as well like separate so it kind of to me it kind of um leads me to believe that there were these tyrant drag kings of league and stuff like that but the other thing that really sells me on marion's dagon is in the dunmer mythology he's one of the four corners of the house of troubles and there's just cool like he embodies all of so the four corners of the house of troubles are malacath marines dagon molag bell and shea gorath and each of them represent sort of trials or challenges so molag bao is always looking out to like corrupt the dunmer bloodlines like vampirism et cetera et cetera um shell grass trying to turn them all insane and then challenging the mind uh malacath is uh the physical test like sending the orcs and all that kind of stuff and then mayrin's dagon's sort of like the the terrain the inhospitable terrain of of uh morrowind and that's kind of what he represents but there's this really cool story where vivec is in his giant form and he's fighting mehrunes dagon and they're having this big clash and their their battles actually create oh star hold on wait i'm just making sure i'm not confusing the west gash that might be um the ruddy man actually i was just about to bring him up um yeah go back to molag bal very briefly but go on yeah um so basically marian's dagon has a big fight and i remember that he was he disarmed mayor and stagon or something and then vivec um basically waited for him to get his sword back or basically he did this chivalrous act because he didn't want to fight an unarmed opponent um and then that's why the dramora um of marion's dagon so forever actually honored um vivec because of because the chivalry that he showed off and so on but marriage dagon's involved in a bunch are you talking about the destruction of mournhold well that's no that's separate that's when that's when yeah mayron's dagon gets summoned up and he destroys moon mold once but then so the seal and almalexia stop him yeah that's a separate one but to quickly talk about the ruddy man um that's another cool murloc bell story i still think he's middle tier but to a little bit more um development is um molag bal was said to be the king of the cheeks the chief of the king chief of the drags um and he was he was i can't remember he was killed in a battle or something went down but basically his carapace um fell when he was killed as the king chief of the drags his carapace fell down on onto the land and so on and a dunmer boy came along and found the carapace and wore it but then that turned him into the ruddy man which is this like big terrible monster beast and so on and i'm pretty sure and then he had a fight with vivek and beat him but it created the west gash which is an area of vardenfell and um and basically that even there apparently like today you can hear like the the sounds of the vex blade scraping against the kiteness carapace of the ruddy man and and in the eso morrowind dlc there was um uh i think it was called the ruddy broadmother or something like that just another sort of connection there but murkbell has cool stuff too but i still think marion's dagon his whole mythic daunt like getting into the mythic dawn cult stuff um is is really cool and it reveals a lot more about him it makes him more um two-dimensional rather than just destruction three-dimensional yeah three-dimensional sorry and he has all these really cool artifacts as well like besides mehrunes razer there's things like the daedric crescent um the spear of a bit of mercy depending on who you listen to but there's also uh the sword of the moon reaver which was actually given to his bodyguard and also kind of his lover he took one of the dark seduces as his lover yeah back in battle spire so this is about and even to just add on that battle spy stuff too is like this in that time he was helping um jagarthan with that whole like getting thrown like for the events of arena like battle spies around then but um yeah it's just cool like that's another sort of form of revolution like he really tries and screws the empire twice in like the third um in the third era but yeah he's got um and also there's the mysteriums he's tome written by him who scribed it in the deserts of rust and wounds yeah which is the dancing right yeah i'm pretty sure yeah all right but uh yeah i think he's he's not the top but he's definitely in the top tier he's not like the best but i i reckon yeah we don't need to order them perfectly i feel like once we get to the top three so if we have to have like kind of a top three out of the top tier to really discuss what would we um what will we do for the next one so you kind of have um himayas mora azura mephala and sheogorath do you want do you want to get the big one out of the room because i kind of want to talk about it but like i think sheogorath's really cool but he's overrated i really like i is not my subjective top and i know he's heaps of people's favorite but just to give my case i think shaya gorath himself he's cooler in the stories but a lot of him is mean value it's like oh i'm so crazy haha cheese oh so crazy and a lot of like why i love the shivering isles isn't because of shagora it's because of his realm and the people in his realm it's not so much him specifically he's got some cool stories and stuff um i i i'm not as well read on um his involvement in daggerfall which was also interesting because he was kind of tied up in the main um quest line a little bit but still i just i i just think especially considering his fourth era show like it's cool that the champion of cyrodiil mantles him and kind of becomes him but i feel like kind of like jiggalag he's to me at least he's become more boring now that he's not i liked his third era sort of incarnation when he was sort of alternating with jiggerlag versus him now as his separate i don't know i just sometimes i get bored of the harm crazy yeah i feel like it could also be one of those things where he's become so mainstream and so commonplace and he you know the fact that he has all these memes is because he's good not people think he's good because of the memes if that makes sense like it all started in the fact that he's a very captivating character and to be fair as well his realm kind of is him and when we're when we're ranking all of the other daedra on this list we're not saying oh you know i think uh malacath is a really interesting individual but i don't know about the rest of it like it's always looking at uh the yeah yeah because they don't have particularly interesting personalities they often just have a big reverb voice coming out of a statue um yeah and it's where he gets a big edge because obviously that was one of the best dlcs of all time is his realm and he has the wabberjack and you know and even like his whole um dynamic with haskell and stuff like that and just the kind of lore of the shivering aisles in the world it adds a lot more character 200 for me i would rank him at the absolute top because of his realm because of the shivering aisles and everything in it it's all subjective that's why i would chuck him up the top i also love all of his artifacts and stuff not necessarily like one in particular but just that he has a bunch like it's not just wabba jack the random stuff uh but there's also like i mean yeah the fork of herpetion but there's also the um folium discognatum which is like another daedric artifact tome with like words in it that move around when you try and look at them so it's like basically incomprehensible but if you can figure it out like you get like power and stuff like that um there's the stuff of the ever scamp is kind of just like a troll artifact i guess i'm really tempted to put him in the top three at least though otherwise i'm just going to be like all the comments are going to be like scott you're such a dumb weeaboo what like how is he working and he's the school he's the schoomer cat in in elder scrolls online yeah look how about we oh default he's not he's not like the fourth let's at least talk three i haven't what do you think about um azura i just find azura super wholesome and interesting and i really like the whole idea that's mixed in that you don't often hear about but of vanity and how and how kind of azura's even been said to like kind of bewitch some of her followers into loving her so much and that that's kind of not that she's like well i guess you could say insecure but like she has a big ego and rewards worshipers who play into her ego and stuff yeah that's and obviously she is um paramount to the whole nerevarine prophecy and and all of that um and she's so involved in in all of that and but it's kind of like you know the one she you know she she can be a uh a bit rude i think she's over at one time personally so sotha still gave her the finger and um and then she turned an entire race into the darkness i've got a quote here that i used in the azura video that was vanity well fed is benevolent vanity hungry is spiteful and that kind of sums her up perfectly but there's also a story of the dwemer essentially tricking her uh there was a dwemer like azura yeah so i can't what exactly happened can you remember exactly what happened in that i can't basically it was along the lines of um she wrongly predicted what was in the box as and that was the dwemer way of showing that she wasn't as powerful as she thought she was or something and and she really disliked being deceived like that um i i to to be honest i reckon we could put a zero but you could there's an argument there it's more like i guess her concept is not top tier if that makes sense like just her theme and vibe is doesn't jump out is super amazing it's all of the the little stuff and the stories and that i i feel like i'm conflating her a lot with her yeah like indoor and erevas he's cool to me and he's champion of azura but he's not really like embodying what azura is and so same i think i think i'm doing something similar the more i think about it the more i'm drifting towards drew's view actually which do you know what i i think i think we should probably if anything if we were to make a little swap i reckon maybe even swap azura and boethiah so bowie different middle tier and you're into so we're going to put azura in the middle tier i can i mean i can one thing you can vibe that i mean we don't want to be simps we're not uh tricked by her endowed features i mean how how impressive of a fate is changing their skin color like how often do dangerous princes have that much of an effect over mortals is there much i mean she's also she's the other thing called the change she's also attributed to changing i'm pretty sure changing the khajiit from elves into yeah little cat yeah made them the fastest the cleverest so that's kind of cool like she's changing all of these races and transfers which i don't think other daedric princes really do so you know i'm kind of playing devil's advocate contrarian against myself here but she's actually pretty pretty good okay okay maybe we can put azura in the top tier but like at the bottom of the top tier like so there's six in the top tier now do you know how i i kind of feel like actually maybe putting let's make the top tier just four oh okay and just just put bowie theory into the uh middle tier as well because when i was thinking i'm like maybe i'm just swapping it but maybe they're kind of on the same although we need to discuss mephala because like i guess um i feel like that's just my uh my my subjective i mean we've all got it's all subjective but we're trying to like make it uh into a thing but yeah my main reason for uh mafala is basically she sets the foundat through the morag tong sets the foundation of a peaceful dunmer society which i really like which is basically giving it's the whole idea of that alternative society that you've got where where the morag tong doing these licensed murders and so on it allows them to just it's like that sort of you know the themes of how like a society is you know super great and everything but you know secretly the cia are off assassinating things doing all kinds of things there's lots of dark and evil stuff happens to maintain a pleasant good society it's kind of her and morag tong is what they they have to do to maintain so there isn't all-out warfare and so on and i love um i'll have to find some of my favorite quotes i love what's it fair i mean you can kind of associate all deception with mafala and lying in deception is pretty powerful and i love the idea too i love the whole the idea of that all mortal lives are on threads and so on and she's like the web spinner like you know plucking threads and doing all kinds of stuff and and and she's also associated with fate and stuff and because of that she's said to be the sibling of hermanus maura which is really cool as well um but i'm just trying to find my favorite there's a yeah i just like so you know as known the west mephala is the demon of murder sex and secrets but all of these themes contains um subtle aspects and violent ones so there's like assassination end genocide but then there's like courtship and then there's like orgy or like tact or poetic truths and just sort of like this kind of she paradoxically sort of contains all of these kind of themes do you know what i mean and then also it's kind of that her whole thing by being the anticipation of avec she's she's very important to vivec's character as well because mafaala is like the the primal darker side well in their canon in their um theology she's the sort of darker part of the vek it's funny because to me i just can't she just doesn't click with me like i can't say that oh i like mephala a lot more than boethiah and azura i i can't have her top tier i think it's the other two middle tier the other thing too is i think is is the um uh the morag tong thing like i really like the idea with that when the armistice happened that they had to uh sorry not the armistice um they when the rise of the tribunal they had to sort of start worshiping vivec maybe it was the armistice i can't remember basically there's a thing that basically she deceived and became like the night mother and then created this whole like dark brotherhood thing inadvertently with um whoa sorry directly um because the original morag tong had sort of strayed uh for the part well yeah there's stuff there i feel like i'm not celebrating no you're not what the there's the argument now the argument the night that the night mother is literally just an aspect of mephala so she is the wife of syphilis yeah oh the ebony blade's sick as well and the spider danger the spiders and all that kind of stuff but um i might be giving her too much credit but i i kind of associate all manipulation to mephala so anytime mortals are manipulating one another lying to another deceiving or assassinating all of the the butterfly effects that happen from someone being assassinated or deceived is kind of her at work yeah i also really like um that oh also i don't know this is only just based off i'll just find the exact sauce um in the monomyth um apparently she is recognized as one of the strongest and recognizable spirits that emerged soon after akatosh formed and time began but um that's yes so she's basically responsible along with boethiah but for the foundation of morrowind um she taught the kind of the skills they would need to evade their enemies or kill them with secret murder enemies were numerous in those days because the kaima were a small faction mafaala along with boethiah organized the clan systems that eventually became the basis for the great houses i also like to the khajiit that she's the clan mother of dark secrets and the recorder of hidden guilt and eternal shame um she's the uh but apparently she fell out of favor during an event known as the sinner suicides but i think that's just from a loading screen so it's not um talked about a lot but i do i like i like that i really like the secrets and lies and betrayal element of her and i like that by extra by the hidden guilt and eternal shame but i like how she kind of encapsulates like the darker parts of a society and so on and all of those kinds of things like you know even like but when betrayals happening and so on you could connect it to the whole arcturian heresy with um tiber septim and so on and his kind of devious kind of i don't know i i just think she's going to i know what you mean like the kind of darker parts of society that help things run it's it's kind of like the i don't know if anyone listening has seen big mouth but it's like the shame wizard you know it's it's like it's like this concept that um keeps things you know running smoothly because without that kind of guilt i suppose people would do all kinds of chaotic things yeah um she was also an eso somerset but i'm not um but she got screwed over okay okay so i think top tier then if we had a top four we could put shea gorath emmaus mora mehrunes dagon and mephala in it um yeah i feel like i feel like both like we okay look we didn't i feel the top tier that there's a top three then of share gore at home and mehrunes dagon that would be my top three and then i'd maybe maybe put the good daedra together after that yeah i i'm vibing that a lot i fear i feel i feel like that's uh fair i feel like i've just crammed my follower in there because i really yeah i think i think that's that's a fair point before i'd put my father up pretty high as well okay well then then what we can do is so yeah like yeah so the good daedra following maren's dagon shea gorath and homeos mora oh the three that we've seen which which would you rank the second and third if we were to rank or we're just not going to i guess let's just have some personal rankings i would probably put shea gorath first then if i had to pick between yes suck it mean value and then second and third i can't help but put myron's dagon second i know it feels so typical but i just really like the mythic dawn and then i'm going to put hermanus more a third what about you drew i would do um shag or a third i mean my favorite isn't involved here because i don't think any of these are my favorites but i'm kind of looking at it not through my own eyes basically but more kind of trying to look at it slightly more objectively but then i'd put i think i'd put hermes more a second and marion's day gone first right and what what would you put first if it was because we are doing the coolest what's coolest to you first oh number one that's really difficult it's that it's not periodic no um it also depends the mood you're in like i know like sometimes i have like sometimes i vibe namira heaps but like it just depends on the mood but i guess yeah i mean really to me honestly my favorite isn't even exactly this because it would be more along the lines of i'd probably just put the good danger at the top like i don't know like i really like them and their their thing but um i mean i do like i would i think i might even put marin's day gone first um if it was me out of these three i wouldn't i guess shea goras second then hermeasmora like i don't hate like i definitely don't hate shay agora that's it's funny to say it but i just i mean one thing that you kind of touched on with the cheese meme about shay gaurav is that when he's portrayed in oblivion you really don't see one whole side of him even when he's being threatening it it never really feels dangerous whereas i got the vibe from the 16 accords of madness that he could be really unhinged like terrifying unhinged whereas you don't really see his full mental illness you kind of more just see he's like a bit more he he's a great like a leprechaun type like you know he's he's just not i don't think he was portrayed as well as he could be but he was portrayed as well as you'd want for like the mainstream appeal you don't want him to be impressive yeah he's a bit more palatable yeah i guess first all right so i'm going to read my list from top to bottom to finish up and this is it's always subject to change like i've made lists like this before someone will comment below actually how could you think this one's cooler than this one i would put this one above this one for sure and i would read it and just be like yeah i agree but so far the piece of paper in front of me shea gorath mehrunes dagon the good daedra then middle tier clavicus vile nocturnal her scene and molag bao bottomed here sanguine vaemina namira malacath meridia period and jigalag yeah my i mean mine really only like i would just get called a dunmer file because i just i would just put the good danger at the top but like if i'm actually trying if we're trying to have like a more of a fudge muppet list i would i just can't put sugar at the top for i think because hermes moore is like yeah cool knowledge and tentacles and he's got the seekers are really cool agmofinium is all really cool but i just think that mehrunes dagon has like cooler interactions in history hermeos mora kind of doesn't he has some with like being like known as the woodland man um and it's connected to some sort of atmoran stuff is that's pretty cool but i don't know man it's ranking this is so hard imagine giving them an everyone you've just watched an hour or so or whatever this podcast here's the unsatisfying answer it's all subjective man like we've all got different days so i i think hermaeus mora would be the best if his knowledge was more useful more viable you know people who've tried to access his knowledge tend to get screwed over for it there's there's not a great deal of value for mortals in it um whereas i think marines dagon is the best because i mean obviously he's really interesting with how he's been portrayed in the games but also i think he's the most valuable to mortals so one thing i'd say about marines dagon which i can't say for anyone else is there's never ever going to be a time where people aren't worshipping him because for example if i just use the dregs as an example marion's dagon was arguably created to take down the drag kings whereas if you look at the dreg now you can argue that the seaborne ones are still intelligent but they you know they get fished to death and when they come on land they're just mad whereas um so they're now downcast and they have a they could potentially start worshiping maroon stagon because they want revolution or something so there's always going to be people who want liberation or revolution because you know what's destruction to the empire is liberation to someone else you know so i think marion stegon is the best because he's the most valuable yeah and um yeah and i mean he's also the most intimately connected with the entire theme of oblivion which is like chaos and change so by revolution being like a you know and i mean if he takes outside of the typical kind of stuff like the deadlands is a pretty sick looking place like i remember playing it back in the day of believing like i'm in a demon realm it's the most like yeah but if you reflect on it though it's also kind of a boring realm in just in the sense that it is just typical if you if you know what i mean it you would never say it's like oh that's a really unique demon realm it's but you always take it with a grain of salt right because i mean realm is portrayed as basically the deadlines as well so oh that's it's not but that's the way it is in that in that game so i kind of it's the same when we were talking about meridia's colored rooms you know you can see how it's portrayed in eso but i kind of just because it's oblivion i just read it as oh this is how it's portrayed right now but it's completely subject to change and i still see it as like a you know a realm of reflected light or whatever else yeah um yeah i i get like what what's the top what what's the top one that like michael's you said you said i have mayroon's day i would say it's a close second like you can you can i would say it's only because the shivering i was realm if you just looked at them as individuals i would agree with mehrunes dagon and the concept of dagon in general it's only because shayagorath has the shivering isles realm which is part of him and everything in it's super interesting and how his interactions with gigalag is making me put him at the top but it depends when but if i was going fourth era he no longer has the connection to jiggle act two and the jig leg and the grey march is kind of all not a thing anymore because they're completely separate entities and then when gigalac's free now isn't yeah so he could be the courageous because because before at least the way i understand it is that that sheogorath was never a thing he was the curse of jig lag he's like the nuts part of jiggalag but what happened is that nuts part was then mantled by the champion of cyrodiil separately and then you have gigalag is now free i'm but i don't know i i would i like the shivering aisles is the big part obviously that pushes him up but i don't know i i just sort of i even think like the whole cult like the mythic dawn and their armor and stuff and their whole like all of their philosophy their book and men car cameron's such a cool dude like they're not directly him but yeah i mean and i like the fact that uh different people in cyrodiil when you're playing oblivion can secretly be mehrunes dagon followers and that they'll actually summon the mythic dawn armor set if you attack them in the middle of skingrad for example or you're hostile if we whip it on if we're to give people a satisfying answer i think drew you're gonna have to be like the the decider here of the number one i think maroon stegon is number one there and stay calm and i i would say show go out second it's over for homeowners yeah me too say and you'd say so then that's two against one for sure gorath the second and then hermeasmura third we all yeah i'm in agreeance with the list man i i it's just if you include realms oh for sure although one change i'd put periodic just above my room's tag on oh yeah that's the last change though last thing we're going to wrap this up but who who is your absolute subjective like at least most interested in even if i had to lean i'd lean towards malacath yeah really okay but i i like her scene i like sanguine and i like perry as well so and clavicus vile so pretty much the weak ones all right wait he here's a more fun question favorite of the bottom tier and then we'll and then we'll end the episode remind me the bottom two i think sanguine vamina namira malacath meridia perite or jiggalag i don't know if i can come up with a straight answer but mine would either be i think namira or meridia meridia because of all the ailid involvement and stuff like that i would probably actually go meridia but namira is a close second out of that bottom tier but yeah what about you this sounds like such a meme because it's been the joke but i would almost say perry just just hit me out i'm convincing just just from a perspective of i want to see him explored i want to find out more about the task master aspect of his kind of sphere and i want to see into you know kind of just more about him i want to find out a lot more there's just not enough there and i just think there's a lot of potential like if the next big realm in elder scrolls six was with peryite i would be keen i just it's just like hey man well welcome to management um this is my realm and uh you know this is shereen here and uh you know she she's a receptionist gotta get coffee you get well acquainted with a janitor over here and instead of loading screens you have really long waiting rooms all right well i think that wraps up i think that's it mayroon's day gone the top daedra that's our subjective favorite if you were to go from a consensus amongst us but uh yeah there you go we had a bit of a fun one um this time around because we wanted to discuss we were going to go into a particular daedric prince but then we couldn't really decide on what so we can kind of like put this out here and now you guys might get inspired by like oh which one i want to see more dedicated episodes to but we'll go in we'll probably go in on a more uh deeper law discussion uh next time around but uh yeah hope you all enjoyed subscribe like and uh we'll be back to nerd out with you all again next time

Channel: FudgeMuppet

Views: 224,248

Keywords: fudgemuppet, elder scrolls.elder scrolls podcast, skyrim, skyrim podcast, oblivion, morrowind, elder scrolls lore, skyrim lore, ranking the daedra, best daedric prince, daedric prince lore, sheogorath, hermaeus mora, mehrunes dagon

Id: QByQzNLtvv0

Length: 88min 56sec (5336 seconds)

Published: Sun Jul 19 2020