Liberal Christians vs Conservative Christians | Middle Ground

saying the word of god is not absolute or sovereign you already have an agenda in trying to fit the bible into that agenda without the gospel people are going to hell and that's a very serious issue more serious than sexual orientation or aborted babies it says in romans that if you confess with the mouth and believe in the heart that jesus is lord then you will surely be saved praying reading your bible i think following the commandments is a minimum someone who tries to reflect god's love in their lives welcoming people to love each other and be compassionate and listen is essentially what jesus asked us to do when we're approaching different topics like homosexuality or like pro-choice per life we have to go into them thinking about what the bible says they would prefer to have the world or society or culture or their peers dictate their life there are rules that are associated with being progressive the problem comes in when people try to create unnecessary boundaries [Music] i'm angel i'm a worship leader and i'm excited to be here hi i'm jason i'm the youtuber known as pastor jason answers i'm happy to be here i'm ciara um i do hair and i work with children hi i'm olivia i'm a college student hello my name is kurt and i am a senior pastor i am brenda i am the youtuber known as goddess gray and i'm so excited to have a civilized conversation with you all step forward if you agree with the statement the republican party embodies christian values more than the democratic party i don't know a whole bunch about politics but when i see like pro-life things like that i would have to just deduce from that that republican is more christ-centered right i'm not talking about big government versus small government regulations i'm talking about specifically pro-life talking about education public education of transgender yeah i'm talking about marriage i grew up in a very conservative far right church i used to be a trump supporter although i wasn't even i'm not even a u.s citizen but one thing that really hurt me and changed my perspective was how they talk about immigration and poor people like myself i grew up in poverty and planned parenthood is my pcp because they take medicaid but when i found out that my friends actually um did a silent protest in front of planned parenthood that really changed my perspective a lot like over 75 percent of people who get abortion are low income i like you have been in not poverty but in situations where i couldn't afford health insurance universal health care is the most christ-like thing i can imagine it's it's full of compassion it's saying yeah maybe you have to take this out of my pocket but it's for the poor you can't afford it i'm like that's jesus to me i don't see what's going on there in regards to abortion specifically i do think that that is someone's future in there and i think that the choice between if that future is played out or not is god's and i take that from psalms where it says that his eyes saw our substance being yet informed and he fashioned our days when yet there were none of them and so the moment at conception when that baby exists no matter how small they are their whole future is lined up and i know that sometimes circumstances on how those babies come about suck and i've met someone that was a product of that okay their biological father raped their mother and she doesn't know who her biological father is but i just couldn't i couldn't imagine life without her what about the mother that finds out that she's pregnant and she goes to the hospital and they tell her that it's a high risk pregnancy and that if she does take the baby to term that she runs the risk of of giving birth and actually dying i think that in those circumstances in those situations i think that they should trust the lord so what if the lord tells them to have an abortion i'm just gonna have to say trust the lord and i'm not a woman i will never be put in that place so when i ask that because i have a i have a friend that his daughter went through that and he chose his daughter over the baby and so they ended up having an abortion and he was pro-life prior to that circumstance i mean i would still trust god i think if i was in that situation i would pray with my husband and call on my church and my family let's come together and pray about this and whatever god like god's will will be done if my life be taken then i pray that this baby will be used and that he would give me the comfort and the peace to get through that situation lgbtq plus couples should be allowed to get married in the church personally i think they should be able to because they can have a marriage that glorifies god just like any straight couples can well i do believe that homosexuality is a sin i can't tell you what you can can or can't do with your life and i do think that you should have the same rights that i have in the same way that i have the right to believe differently i have to also extend that right to you well i'm married to a wonderful man and so so of course i would have to agree with the lgbt people should be allowed to get married in the church when i was deep in evangelicalism the narrative was being gay as a sin and then i saw the church sort of like soften up or change the narrative to okay being gay isn't a sin god made you gay but you can never act on homosexuality that's the sin the act but again i don't see the harm i see beautiful couples like this gentleman here so when we look at suicidal ideation we look at trans women being murdered because of the bigotry in this nation a lot propagated by christians evangelicals conservatives the fruit of that doctrine we've been planting for not only decades but centuries first what lgbtq people do with their lives is none of my business and i believe they should have the same rights as other couples do in terms of government assistance freedoms tax benefits of course that there should be no discrimination but when they come to the church and they're saying can you approve our marriage before god i can't disregard what i believe the bible says and say oh forget what the bible says so that i could be more accepting of people i respect totally as individuals as americans i think you have rights however i have to go based off of the bible and the bible equates homosexuality to sexual immorality and so i i care about you guys as as people that that's not gonna that's not gonna make me justify i know that you mentioned like murders and suicide rates i i don't agree with any of that and i think that's terrible but why do you think those are happening you can no longer say that's horrible what's happening over there because this theology is the basis of that suicidal ideation in many cases it is the basis of transphobia in many cases if you see all of this atrocious pain we're causing the lgbtq plus community then we need to look at the plank in our own eye and say wait why is this happening there's a verse that mentions all of the people who won't enter the kingdom of heaven and i can talk about what leviticus says about homosexuality or the people who engage in that but i just based off as christians if our goal is to get to heaven i know that if i'm a drunk i know if i'm a fornicator i know if i'm an adulterer if i'm living a homosexual lifestyle i will not enter the kingdom of heaven that's what the bible says the word homosexuality is not even entered into biblical texts until probably like the 1900s in the original text arson okoyetai and malaquoi are in our english rendition it says homosexuality but those literally translate to pedophilia it's relationship between an older man and his young so the verses that say a man shall not sleep with another man for it is an abomination that there's no word for homosexuality and that is just no dude sleep with other dude i can see how you can see that relating to first timothy passage but if you look at romans chapter 1 verse 26 and 27 it's clearly in context it's talking about quote-unquote unnatural relations it doesn't say homosexual but it's talking about men having committing acts with other men yeah well the the problem with that is that so in romans that's paul writing right um and so paul is god writing yes no it's paul writing it's god well that's a whole nother thing so paul wrote letters to church you're clearly saying that it's not the same thing no no no you didn't let me finish this because you're finished the text says natural affection well my natural affection is not towards a woman my natural affection is towards a man there are dividing things in the bible and progressives want to get rid of that because they want to focus on god loves you accepts you and puts his arms around you but in the process have also watered down the gospel also deleted some things that they know what the bible says and because we don't want to cast people away so i love that heart but i think in the process of watering down the gospel you set the bar so low that do they even see the real god you have to be very careful when we talk about the literalism of the bible because if we do that then basically everyone in this room is sinning because we have mixed tweeds on do you know the context of leviticus yes i know the context why do you allow for context well no what i'm saying is leviticus the law that came was for the people of israel when they were rescued from the captivity of egypt but we see in jeremiah 31 31 that the lord says that he will build a new covenant under the house of jude and under the house of israel which is still scripture right so if we go based off of what we see in exodus and leviticus that law is gone but you're allowing for context and history which you don't allow for another thing that's not fair i've gone through some sort of conversion therapy myself although they called it counseling to serve as a leader or to serve in different departments and i always questioned why are divorced people able to serve and do things and it's not really a big of a deal in most churches whereas a lot of churches they have a statement of faith that says if you if you disagree with our marriage or like the traditional marriage model you cannot serve i never heard any pastor telling someone who's divorced to go back to their ex-husband or ex-wife like they say it's the same level of sin but how come these people are like okay and these people are not so that's the problem i see i'm not gonna be a literalist here but please don't be offended because i do admire your courage and coming out but i believe homosexuals will not be in heaven i believe homosexuals transgenders people who break the speed limit will all go to heaven if they put their faith in jesus christ as their personal lord and savior but but when they get to heaven they will no longer be homosexuals they will no longer be law breakers they will no longer be drunks based on first corinthians six verse nine we can actually see what god's will is clearly based on what it is in heaven so when it comes to tendencies with homosexuality that's something that i've dealt with since i was very young however i don't choose to identify with those tendencies that are within me i choose to identify with what the bible declares that i am and are you miserable no no not at all you're not no because the joy of the lord is my strength could i ask a of an invasive question you can say now are you bisexual no there is a big possibility i may never get married okay there's a big possibility you may never get married because of what because i choose to trust in the lord and i choose to do as the scripture says and believe as the scripture says so do you have inclinations and desires to like to be with a guy i have desires and inclinations to follow the voice of the lord and i and i respect that like i honestly do that's a lot of self-control to say basically you're down to have a life of celibacy i was kind of nervous to talk about a little bit but i feel like it's a topic that's a lot more in the dark when it comes to the church and i don't know i just feel like we need to move forward in a different approach than the way we've been going because it does break my heart seeing people committing suicide and and hearing about some of the violent conclusions that some people's lives have gotten to i feel like if anybody has any reason to find like an explanation for how i could get around scripture and marry a male it just i just can't i can't can't could i also just ask you where you received that message for the first time some people in church that would say like you know that that was a choice and and i realized that i had no control over what i like or what i don't like literally i don't and i can agree with you with that i think the choice comes in is choosing to identify with those beliefs and choosing to identify with tendencies inside of you that's where i believe it come becomes sin for me i try to suppress that for years i you know i had a girlfriend i did all of these different things and it was like oh no it's a sin it's that but i had a relevatory moment when the church was mean to me put him over here we don't want him with anybody kick him out do that it wasn't no one showed me the authentic love of christ but you know who showed me the authentic love of christ my friends who are gay i had to go to counseling because of what the church did to me and the counselor is the one who was not a christian helped me to understand people in the church hurt you not god and so because god did not hurt me i could stand in a church and get married to a man because god did not hurt me i can stand up every sunday and preach to transgender straight people gay people i can do all of that because of the authenticity of who and what i know god is jesus would protest for the black lives matter movement jesus cares so much about everyone that i think that he he may we see him making stance stances especially in the synoptic gospels you know throughout text we see him like actually standing up for people right the gospel is not about black lives matter but jesus often stood up for those who are oppressed for those who are discarded those who are marginalized i'm not saying everything about the black lives matter is perfect or good as if any movement is but he would stand up for those who are voiceless yeah i think jesus would protest for the lives of one lost sheep my struggle with not stepping forward was really like we all have a different voice and a way that we can protest in a way that would be best like i had a newborn child so i couldn't get out on the streets because of corona like that's why i wasn't there so anyone that wasn't there i wouldn't say was on the wrong side of history it's but it was like what are you doing to actively advocate in your life educating yourself about white supremacy are you becoming actively anti-racist i wouldn't envision like jesus out there with like a sign because i do believe that black lives matter do believe that all lives matter but i don't think i need to protest in order for me to prove that you have to remember that this same jesus whooped the hell out of a temple because because they were in there doing things that that they um that they should not have been doing and we see him go in and be very vengeful in his approach of turning flipping over tables and doing different things to protest that god's house was supposed to be a house of prayer and that they had made it into a den of thieves i mean i get it historically if this happened in the first century something like a black lives matter was happening i don't think jesus would be part of that because that was not part of his mission that's not but today would jesus want me to be part of it as he's living his life through me then i would answer yes to stand up for those who are oppressed the other side misrepresents christianity i feel misrepresented in that i often say that the evangelical or conservative church has built an idol to sexual purity and sexual integrity which is why the gay issue is so high on the agenda and the pro-choice pro-life issue the bible is not a sex manual but so often i see it being presented as like the utmost issue and what we're talking about earlier about social justice and all of these other beautiful things that i believe jesus would be a part of you know jesus himself was not harping on people's sexuality constantly i think a lot of people turn to the progressive side because they're hurt by the church and what the church did to them and how the church treated them it's showing people come as you are and stay as you are instead of come as you are and let god change you and let god work in you to not live the way you were before but to change and have a new life and become a new creation and join me in heaven well i feel repres misrepresented because like you said you think it's about the issues like sexuality or social justice i feel like because they want to accept because they want people to know about the love of god they're misrepresenting the love of god and that's what conservatives care about the word of god and the gospel again i go back to like the inerrancy of scripture which i see a lot in conservative church i do not believe the words of paul are the words of god and that's definitely where we veer off for a lot of people that's a big thing like we believe that just all scripture including that which paul wrote was inspired by god and so no i believe it's all inspired by god but i don't believe it's literally god the only reason i'm going in on this is to clarify that we love and honor the bible too we really do i read my bible every single day and i think that is the thing that most conservatives don't understand about progressives more than anything welcome our ambiguities of like this and that and are this is the way you see it that's an age-old thing if you go back and you look that's why martin luther posted the 95 theses on the catholic church because he had all of these issues or all of these problems with what they thought religiously and he goes on to start the lutheran church and then like my sister said we read the same bible we i get up and i i i read and study my bible every week progressive christianity is seeing the christianity that we grew up in and i think the problem and then we realized okay let's fix it so we come up with new ideas and new ways to fix it but based on the scripture that we all grew up reading when i when i pastor my church and they're having a hard time understanding the scriptures i'm gentle with them because they're trying to learn but i feel i could be harsh with progressive christians because if they if you claim to be a christian you should know better and i believe especially after this talk you don't know how to interpret the word you are dishonoring god because you are not doing his will now i firmly believe that because saying the word of god is not absolute or sovereign you're saying and you're picking and choosing based on your interpretations i think you're hermeneutics is off see my church members are trying to learn but it seems like you already have an agenda and you're trying to fit the bible into that agenda instead of accepting the gospel for what it is that without the gospel people are going to hell and that's a very serious issue more serious than sexual orientation or aborted babies and i think that's the key issue between conservatives and progressives it's not about the issues it's about the word of god and when you disrespect the word of god like you are doing it like you suppose that we're doing it because your hermeneutics is wrong not necessarily though i probably wouldn't have said it as curt i do believe that the gospel is essential above topics of and though the church hasn't done a great job with capitalizing on some sins and not really talking about the other like i know that we mentioned divorce earlier um i do think the gospel is of primary importance and i i would have to second that like my biggest thing is just like taking parts of scripture and then not taking the other but i probably wouldn't say it as curd but yeah as an african-american we dealt with slavery and if you go back and you you study history um and you look at the the history of black people we were indoctrinaized by the bible slaves obey your masters and they indoctrinated that into us to to keep us oppressed when you talk about literalism when it comes to scripture you have to be very careful because if you because if you do that then then you open up something that is catastrophic i think it's terrible that people took scripture out of context because all man was created in the likeness of god all men all men all people so when they were quoting verses about slavery they disregarded what was said in genesis in the beginning that all people were created in the likeness of god if all men were created in the image of god then that that's gay people that's transgender people that's um african-american people that's asian people that's all you're talking about race sexual identity those are completely different things here's the thing whether i choose to walk outside and identify as being black or not i got black skin whether i choose to identify with behaviors on how i feel is a completely different thing well that's when you go into a lifestyle and orientation and that's an argument within itself there is a danger i agree in interpreting scripture literally because it can be so easily weaponized against people interracial marriage was illegal in this country until 1967 and there were christian women protesting because white christians thought it was unbiblical and it was in the bible it was clear that we're not supposed to be mixing with other races i can't say you're going to hell i can't say that because i don't know her relationship with god and i can't say the same for you or you and even between us as conservative christians we identify in different belief systems i think just this world is not our home our focus is on making it to heaven and doing what we can to get there and making sure that we're reaching people along the way the church does need to do a better job of reaching people in a respectful caring loving way not just throwing scripture down someone's throat or not just throwing standards or what they think is right but what jesus showed us to live by loving our neighbor as ourselves and to make connections with people and truly care about the person and the soul because this life is just temporary [Music] you

Channel: Jubilee

Views: 1,886,096

Rating: 4.9196653 out of 5

Keywords: jubilee, jubilee media, jubilee project, middle ground, spectrum, odd man out, versus 1, embrace empathy, live deeper, love language, blind devotion, progressive christians, conservative christians, american christianity, progressive vs conservative christians, christian theology

Id: 6tYxnt3gCyI

Length: 26min 16sec (1576 seconds)

Published: Sun Dec 27 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/parkj360]

Jason was also in that other Jubilee episode (Do all Christians think alike?) I think he was the only one who was grounded in the Word.

[u/AngelRose777]

Jason and Angel referenced more bible verses than anyone else.

[u/Philospher_Mind]

Can someone link a reference where i can find out more about Angel and Jason?

[u/scofield-micheal]

I laughed when they said they are good Christians 😂 because that doesn’t exist

[u/tanhan27]

I really liked that conversation. Thank you for sharing. We need more conversations in the church like this one.

[u/rev_run_d]

This is good stuff.

[u/Aoae]

Interesting video, thanks for sharing.

[u/ARabidMeerkat]

The sad thing is that many people who aren't Christians will rather watch a video like this to understand Christianity and Jesus rather than read the Bible foe themselves to see what God said.

[u/BBQChknAlert]

I love seeing Jason here, speaking the true Gospel!