- If I'm choosing to
dress the way I dress, and that does not hurt anyone else, I don't think I'm gonna go to hell for it. (soft contemporary music) - [Interviewer] In your eyes, what does the hijab stand for? - For a woman, the hijab
just pretty much stands for being modest with your appearance, and letting people see
you for who you are, your personality and not just your looks. - When people think about hijab, they think of a piece of cloth. - But to me, it's like my identity. - I just haven't worn it yet, because I don't think I've
found a connection with it. - I took off my hijab
probably almost a year ago. When I decided to take it off, I kind of escaped from the
Muslim community a little bit. - Some of us, our upbringings, our mosques made us have difficult
relationships with hijab. That's something that I had. - I do think that there are certain groups that wear the hijab that think
that if you don't wear it, that you don't connect with Islam. - A lotta hijabis would pick
on people who are not hijabis. They think that we're lesser than or we're not as religious, or we're not praying five times a day. Like, no we're doing that too. Can we be equal? (laughs) Let's not judge so much. - My name is Faatimah. I am a student at UCLA,
studying anthropology and film. - I'm Sha'am, I am also a student at UCLA, but I'm studying
international development. - My name is Jannah, and I also am a pre-med biology student, and I work in the medical field too. - I'm Sabahat, or Saba. Depends on how you wanna say it, and I'm a senior in high school. - I'm Lene, and I'm a business analyst for a healthcare company. - I'm Mawa, or Marwa. And I do a lotta
journalism and fundraising, and really random things
on social media. (laughs) - [Interviewer] I want
you to step forward, and take a seat if you agree. So the first prompt is, a hijabi woman is a better Muslim. - [Marwa] (laughs) You agree? (footsteps approaching) - (laughs) I'm shocked I'm sitting here. When we read the Qur'an, we get our own interpretations of it. But it does say that in there, to only show your hands, face and feet. If God says it, then I definitely think that is better, but I don't think the behavior of acting like you're better than someone, that I don't see that's right. (timer taps) - [Interviewer] Can I have
the disagreers come forward? (footsteps approaching) - I actually have so much say about this. (participants laughing)
- So, start with it, Sha'am. - Okay, I think a lot of people think that it's like a point system. Oh yes, hijab, ding, you
know, like next level. And I don't think God is like, "This person wears the hijab. You're good to go," versus
"This person doesn't, so, aah, you're out." I think everything else
that you do weighs in. I do know many hijabis that
do not follow anything else. And I know a lot of non-hijabis that are the most religious
women that I've ever met. - I have a friend on Instagram who dresses however she wants to dress,
and she could rock it. She has a body for it. But she goes to every Friday prayer, and I'm like, dang- - Yeah.
- She's a better Muslim than I am. (laughs)
- Yeah. - And I do find that like, when it comes to behavior
out of the Muslim community, I find that ritual takes precedent over behavior a lot of the times, to the point where like, people are just outright
mean to each other, but they don't realize that
that's a sin too, you know? And when people say,
"You're doing this wrong," it kinda like does deter your
relationship a little bit. You second-guess even your
relationship with Allah, which should be, there
should be no complications. It should just be pure. - There's so many things
that are disregarded as sins, 'cause they don't seem-
- Exactly. - Like even like this
interest or whatever, like it's technically a
sin, people just overlook. But when it comes to hijab, that's like everyone's main focus. - Yeah. - The scrutiny behind it is like insane. - Yeah.
- I think that Muslims create chaos around it, because they want to feel like they're the right ones doing it, the right way. - But to your point, if we're talking, let's talk about hijab, for example. You don't do that. Do you feel- - Yeah, I'm sinning right now. I know that. If you have to say, "Well,
I'm more rebellious," you know you're doing something wrong, and that's Shaytan trying
to get you to normalize it. A lot of the sins that we're
doing, we're being normalized. We're in America. This is the most sinful
country probably ever. - I so disagree with you about something. I disagree about making excuses. I'm not saying that this thing is okay, and like, in America it's all right. Actually, God didn't say it. No, but I am saying, I don't think I'm gonna go to hell for it. I am saying I'm aware
that I'm acting like this, but I just don't think
of God as a punisher, 'cause I think that affects
my relationship with him. I think of him as a very like, loving, kinda like, "Don't do this
because I wanna protect you, but I get why you have
the temptation to do it." - So do you think people are going to hell if you don't think he's a punisher? - I think if your actions
affect other people, personally, you are going to hell, and I know this can be nitpicked. - Yeah, yeah yeah.
- Because like, a man can look at you, I understand that. But you know, if I'm choosing to dress the way I dress, and that technically does
not hurt anyone else, it's just my personal choice, I don't think you're going to hell. I think it's such a personal relationship between me and you know, God, Allah, that kind of thing. It frustrates me when people get involved, 'cause I'm like, it's
none of your business. Let me do me, you know? (footsteps approaching) I have not worn a hijab. I do think it's like a
very loud image of Islam. I think it's a very clear
representation of it. It can be terrifying, because it's like you're a walking symbol at all times. But I also think it's a very
clear symbol of strength. I think it takes a lotta
strength to wear it. I don't know if I personally
have that strength, as of right now. (timer taps) - [Interviewer] The hijab
was created to protect women. (footsteps approaching) - That's what it said in Qur'an. It said, only show your
hands, feet and face. And it's supposed to protect
you from the opposite sex. - Yeah, just like reflecting back. Not just like wearing it as a head scarf, but like wearing long sleeves and like just dressing
more modestly in general, I believe protected me from a lot. - I think it is like a two-way street. I think, you know, there
are a lotta things mentioned for the other sex. "Lower your gaze" and all that. But I do think it was meant as a protective measure in a certain way. (timer taps) (footsteps approaching) - I do believe that the
hijab does provide protection in some ways, but I don't think it was created for the purpose of protection. - So like if you had to say
it was created for something, would you say it's more of a
modesty thing or what, to you, what do you think it
really represents, then? - Well, I think that
hijab is so complicated. He also uses the word khimar, which literally translates to head scarf. This isn't called a hijab. This is called a khimar. A khimar is the actual translation for the head covering
that covers your chest. And there's a lot of
translations that came in that have called this a scarf, and that's where the confusion has set in. And so they're like, "Well, it doesn't have to cover your- - It's just a veil, or-
- It's just a piece of cloth. - When I think of the hijab, I think of bit more like
the principle behind it, modesty and humility and just like, not being too outlandish. And so, I don't think it's super gendered. I feel like the hijab is
something that men in their way should be also observing. - Yeah, no that's definitely true. A dude should not be checking me out. Like I think the hijab prevents that. Like for example, without my hijab, I go to like a solid like
eight outta 10 appearing, like attraction-wise.
(Faatimah laughs) And with the hijab, I'm
like, you know, a two. And I think it does a really good job. Like when it makes me uglier, I feel like, good job hijab, you know? - I think we should just preface it like, Islam isn't the one dictating all this. It's literally like Muslim culture. - Exactly, yeah.
- Exactly, very true. - Like the way you wear
hijab, like for example, the way that I'm wearing it right now is like a no-no to many people. Like they're like, "Oh my god, that little chin is showing." - [Faatimah] You can't wear pants. - I can't wear pants, yeah, yeah, yeah. - They're saying chin now? - Everything, the halal
police will come for you for literally anything. - [Participant] We can like, low-key, talk about this forever. (laughs) - Yeah.
- I know, the chin though. - [Interviewer] Have you
ever been judged by hijabi women for not wearing a hijab? - Yeah, by my sister, actually. I wore it up in a bun, like banned to them. She actually was talking behind my back in the Muslim community, talking like, "oh, she's crazy. She's a whore." And I'm like, (hands patting)
"But you have stories too." (laughs) Like, I don't get it. (timer taps) - [Interviewer] Women are
held to higher standards of modesty than men." - Can I run? (laughs) Where do I start? Where do I start? - Can we talk about how guys
can like go out clubbing, drinking, like go out, like have girlfriends,
and that's totally fine. Nobody even bats an eye. When it comes to like
girls in the same thing, It's like, "Oh-
- "They need to." They need to experience life, you know?" - Yeah, "They need to
experience life, it's okay." - Right, they have to
get it outta their system before they get married. - Yeah.
- Yeah yeah. - [Marwa] No one is like, "Oh, don't marry that guy because- - Oh.
- 100%, yeah. - A girl gets caught at the mall having a conversation
with a store associate, and then someone's mom sees
that girl and she's like, "Nobody marry that woman's daughter." - It's over.
- She's blacklisted. - "I saw her at the mall with a boy." I just wanna say I've
never gone to a guy's photo and looked at the comments. No one's calling him a whore, or a slut, or "You're going to hell for what you're wearing," or, "Your ankles are showing." Just the basic line of like, clothing, we experience so much more. - I wanna know what they think. - I know, I'm so glad-
- Oh yeah. (timer taps) - I disagree completely because it's more of a cultural thing. I think I took the prompt very literally, and applied it to Islam. I don't think Islam necessarily lets guys get away with more. At the end of the day,
if they're gonna go out, like if they're gonna go live
their best life, let them. Allah (fist claps) is the final judge. It's none of my business. I'm gonna stay out of it. And I think it's more
cultural than religious. - Right.
- So that's why I 100% disagree. But if it's cultural, I'll be here all day long. - Oh, yeah yeah.
- I agree with you. I don't think it's religious at all. I was thinking culture. - Oh, I was thinking of purely religious. - I think that throughout history, it's a patriarchal history. - Of course. - There are parts of the religion itself that are different for men and women, in a way that it seems like it's because the men are the ones who
are saying these things. People feel like there's
no female prophets. I'm not sure about that. I don't know. There could have been female prophets who just never had their stories told. The understanding of religion
that we have as humans is purely based on the fact that humans are the ones telling us these stories about religion. I would say that I've seen a
lot of like gendered things, very gendered to the point that
we don't even explore people who are not fixed in
those binaries, you know? We don't talk about fear Muslims. We don't talk about anything like that. I feel like there's just like, people are just too
afraid to talk about that because they're afraid it's gonna be questioning the religion. (footsteps approaching) - Before 2016, I never thought I would be wearing hijab any time soon. In my mind, I was like, "Oh, get married. I'll have kids. And then like some point in
my life, I'll throw it on." And I think I was being
guided in a wrong way when it came to the
conversation around hijab. Wearing hijab is a promise
between you and God, a more difficult level of faith. But the struggle is part of the devotion. (timer taps) - [Interviewer] A non-Muslim
person can wear a hijab. (footsteps approaching) - I think personally, it depends. I know some like Christian women argue that the hijab is technically
instilled in the Bible and that they wanna wear it. And I feel like in that
case, it's totally okay. When it comes to like fashion purposes or just wearing it just for the look, I feel like in that case I would disagree. - Well, I think that's actually awesome. If a non-Muslim tries to wear hijab, and they try to cover or be modest, I think that's amazing
because it is as considered a good deed. And if that's what you wanna do, and it maybe leads you into Islam, (speaks in foreign language) You're better than me
right now, but good job. - I think I was looking at it more like, if I had a, let's say, a non-Muslim friend that wanted to come with me
to, let's say the mosque, and they put it on, I
think that's acceptable. - Yeah, it's to be respectful. - Yes, exactly, very, yeah. (timer taps) (footsteps approaching) - I actually took this as more
of a cultural appreciation versus appropriation type of topic. I think we can all agree, we're gonna define hijab as a lifestyle and cultural everything-wise
type of statement. So I took it in as that, and like, I think someone brought up the friend coming to the masjid. I think that's appreciation. - Yeah.
- Yeah. - Not appropriation, like Netflix shows, they have a hijab being taken off. Nah-uh, babe. I have such an issue with that, because again, it goes back
to this whole idea of like, we have no freedom. We are in this closet, 24/7. We're in a bubble, we live like, no, no, no, no. Just because you like a boy, you're not gonna take
off your hijab for him. - Every hijabi that's in a
show takes off her hijab. - Takes it off.
- For a white guy, by the way. Always white.
- It's always the white guys. - White guys.
- It's like, come on, dude. We are so much more than the girl who's trapped inside of her house. - Exactly.
- She's like, "Screw my religion." - Yeah.
- It's not real. - Muslim women are like
misrepresented all the time. - There was a thing with Rihanna where she just put it on for a photo. - Oh, yeah.
- That is something that frustrates me.
- I remember that. - I didn't have a problem with that. - Really?
(Jannah laughs) - We do that. Like we, come on, Muslim women do that. Why can't Rihanna do it? - We do, we do, we do. - That's appreciate to me.
- She's wearing it outta respect for being at a masjid, and she just took a photo.
- Non-hijabis do that. We do that.
- That's what I'm saying. Like, I put scarves on when I want to. I pose for it when I want to. Sometimes I do it because
I'm around hijabis, when I want to. - Well, I was just gonna say, it's just 'cause they
have such a privilege where they can take it
off whenever they want. - Yeah.
- True. - We can't. - I just remember the
greatest example of all time, because okay, so Mia Khalifa,
that one video of her. - Ooh.
- I was like, you know, from that I get called
Mia Khalifa all the time. - [Faatimah] I get called- (Jannah laughs) - I get called, and I don't like that. It goes back to the
whole fetishizing thing. - It is a fetish.
- I think it's okay, 'cause she's Arab. - 'Cause she's, no, no, no no no. People have actually
DMed me and been like, "Oh, are you on some
like Mia Khalifa type?" I'm like, "No."
- No, I can't do that. - "Mia Khalifa did it so you can too." "No, no, no, no." Like this goodness is not for anyone to see.
- Thank you. - It's for the person that'll love me. It's for the person that'll respect me. It's for the person that I will
have kids with insha'Allah. That's what it's for. It's not for any of y'all. - [Interviewer] What made you
wanna stop wearing the hijab? - The Boston bombing had just happened, and I was really young. I was supposed to go to a
field trip, to a mosque. And I remember that
people started rallying outside my school, because I
went to the Islamic school, and I just saw all the hate, and I realized that
that's not what Islam is, and I need to represent it. And the first thing that
I could do to represent it is start by wearing my hijab. (timer taps) - [Interviewer] I have
harassed for wearing a hijab. (footsteps approaching) - There's just been so many cases. At school I've had multiple times where people would come from
the back and be like, "Boo," and then take off my scarf, pull it off. - That's like taking
off a person's clothing. - Exactly, and the way that
I feel naked without it, like, I felt so ashamed. And I think that's just not right, especially because I
had to go through that at such a young age. But I wish that there
were so many advantages of being a non-hijabi than being a hijabi. TSA, airports. - Oh yeah.
- I am just any other girl. - [Marwa] What about the hand stuff? - Did they hand stuff you?
- Oh, the little finger thing. - You go through the
thing, and they're like, "Can we see your hands?" And they put it on. I'm like, oh, "What is this for?" And they're like, "We're
looking for bomb residue." And I'm like- - [Faatimah] They said that to you? - Yes.
- All the time. - (speaks in foreign language)
That's why they do it. And the red city I live in, they're not openly racist. They're kindly racists. - Oh God. - This woman I encountered
at the grocery store, I was reaching for milk. She's like, "Sweetie,
you live in America now. You don't have to wear that." She thought she was doing me a favor. That's the weird thing. - Superiority complex.
- It's just ignorance. - The superiority complex. - It was the white savior thing. - Yeah. (timer taps) - Hearing your guys' stories, I feel like it hurts a little, because I've heard them so many times, and it's always the same, like, "Go back to your country. This is America." I've never worn the hijab, so I can never say I know the experience, but I have seen it. - Does it discourage you, like our stories at all for you to like be scared to try it on or? - No, I don't want fear to control me. The reason I don't wear it is just more personal reasons, I guess, more than it is the society's
effect on me, you know. - I have to be honest. Like I experienced
privilege, not wearing hijab. People don't see me as Muslim first, and I've lived my whole life
being seen as Muslim first. Some people say like, "Why would you take it off," or whatever. Sometimes like it happens, whereas like you're tired of all that. And you wanna like, not
be identified or whatever. - Hijab is definitely a struggle, and a lot of hijabis struggle
with hijab every day. And then we got the hate
from the right wing. We got the hate from inside
the Muslim community. - Extreme, you know, yeah.
- Even, yeah, the super progressive left feminists, not just all feminists, but like you know the exact
ones I'm talking about. And then we have every single other kind of person on the outside, like, "Take it off." And you're like, "I want
to," you know what I mean? But I'm not going to because, because for me it's
like, if I take it off, what am I really looking for? I'm looking for convenience, but I shouldn't care about those things. When I die, none of that will matter. - Like going to your
point, when I wore hijab, like, I actually liked me wearing it as a view to like
Western beauty standards, to like all of that. And so when I was thinking about like, whether I wanted to wear
it or not, I was like, I'm gonna be kind of like giving into what people see as like beautiful, or what people see as
like normal or whatever. But I guess for me it was
becoming harder for me to understand my purpose,
the time I was a hijabi, because I never got the
ability to choose to wear it. My parents just put it on me. So I think for myself, like
I'm taking like a break. - The one thing that you
were saying about like, you know, your parents put you in it, I'm so sorry that happened, because that discourages
so many people to wear it. And that is not right, because I am my own individual. And that's what the
hijab allowed me to do. Like I think what it did for you is the exact opposite case, right? Because I got that choice, but I hope you stay onto your faith, and I hope you stay
onto your, stay strong. Stay strongly. (lips kiss) (Faatimah laughs) - [Interviewer] What made you want to take take off the hijab? - There's a lot of pressure
to wear it from people. And there's a lack of an informed decision based on your own ideals. I just wanted to get a clean
state and find out for myself if it was my choice, 'cause I didn't get that opportunity. - I don't think there could be a time where I could ever remove the hijab. I'm in a really comfortable
place with it now. I always wanna normalize
just Muslim women in general, 'cause there's always
like a negative stigma towards Muslim women that
wear hijab, especially. It's really frustrating that
I hear that we're oppressed. So it's really important for
me to wear it and show people that we are normal people. We're just like regular girls. We just happen to wear
it for our religion. (timer taps) - [Interviewer] Modesty in Islam should be redefined for the 21st century. - Oh, oh, I don't know. - [Sha'am] Thank you. (laughs) - [Sabahat] Of course. It has to do with lifestyle
choices and things like that. So for example, women didn't
start working until when? - Not very long ago. - Yeah, a couple of decades ago, life was very different then. Culturally speaking, we should change, but religiously speaking, how much can you really change? Like, Islam gives women so much. It allows us to be whoever we want, act however we want, do whatever we want, and keep our income and stuff like that. Modesty is just a really raw term. - I totally understand
where you're coming from, but I definitely think that staying stuck in the same mindset can be very damaging. You know, I can't be like,
"It was done like this, so we have to keep doing it like this." - Yeah. - And I also think it changes
from country to country. So like I personally lived
in Syria for seven years, and the things that I
can get away with here are not the same things that
I can get away with there. And so what they consider modest is different than- - [Both] What we consider modest. - Yeah. (timer taps) (footsteps approaching) - I think that the human in us, the sinners in us, want it to change so we can do more. I think, low key, we all wanna address a certain way so we can be attractive. - Yeah. - And if how you want to present
yourself to be attractive is sexual attraction
from the opposite sex, if you want that, that's fine. But I think that's what it is, low key. - I feel like a lot of Islamic scholars sort of just try to relate
it to this generation. I think people just try to make it easier based off of how other
people are dressed here. - Mm-hm.
- Yeah. - But it's still super clear and I don't think it
should be like altered by stuff of the year we're living in. - I would say, I don't
think it's super clear. Even within the Qur'an, there's so many interpretations
of every single text. So we don't know exactly
what (indistinct) meant when it said "cover this and that," because people had interpreted
crazy different ways. - We should move the conversation away from specific physical
clothing, act and rituals, and focus on the lifestyle. - I think you should focus on both. - I think in the middle-
- Yeah, but why do you want it to change off of the- - I don't think we need
to redefine modesty, because I think that modesty in itself is not a dated or archaic kind of concept. I think modesty is like the holistic way that we treat each other. And obviously like the
different acts that we do to portray modesty has differed. But I would say modesty as a whole is like same from beginning
of Islam or to now. (Jannah speaks in foreign language) (Lene speaks in foreign language) - We did it. (hands clapping)
- Yes. (soft contemporary music)
