Conservatives and Progressives Debate Feminism (Extended Version)

the only time I've ever been attacked was by liberal women I find that liberals are some of the most intolerant people one of my friends got punched in the face at UC Berkeley just because he was tabeling with a conservative organization you see this happening all the time so I'm dienasty I'm a comedian and a host here for advice as well so the word feminism it affects people differently this is why we wanted to have an eclectic group of women both on the progressive side and the conservative side to discuss feminism and what that means to you so quick question are you allowed to cuss part of me are you loud too cuz you can let's just freeze it up you know all right so by a show of hands who here identifies as a feminist okay cool I'm just gonna go by and I'm gonna ask everyone what does feminism mean to you and why do you or don't you identify as a feminist so every oh we could start with you I wouldn't identify as a modern feminist because I don't really feel any affinity for third wave feminism any way shape or form but I support you know social and legal equality for men and women and so I think that if you know I think the term feminism has been co-opted by the left in some pernicious ways so I'd like to identify as a feminist but I'm not sure in the current vernacular that's really possible got it Blair honey what do you identify us um I definitely identify as a feminist though I do agree that there has been you know kind of a fraught history of feminism particularly when you look at women's liberation you stop to see people cite like 1920 is the year when women got the right to vote but Native American women didn't have citizenship until 1924 much less the ability to vote until the Voting Rights Act was passed in you know 65 so it's definitely a fraud term but I think presently there's a lot of great feminist discourse where I do feel comfortable with the term but it's not like my one access got it Kate yeah identify as a feminist but I'm from a region in Texas where people are like I'm a Finn and all my guns are pink and I don't quite think that's feminism but I agree that it's a changing it's a constantly evolving word that should hopefully become more inclusive you're right so I don't know I think that the term feminism has been corrupted by people on the far left you know I think that we can all agree that everyone wants equality of the sexes I don't so you don't identify his comments it depends like what you define a feminist if we're talking about like previously mentioned equal rights and of course I don't think there's a single person who would not want equal rights between the sexes but if we're talking about feminism today where it's become so radicalized then I don't want to be associated with that movement yeah so I'm definitely a feminist I'm a libertarian feminist which a lot of people think that there's a disjunct between libertarianism and feminism but I actually think that they have the same goals it's basically about getting the state out of people's lives and allowing them to live whatever life path is best for them as an individual regardless of their sex or gender Dasia identify as a feminist it was the lens through which I first started to explore my identity and more than that my identities as a young person a woman of color someone who experienced homelessness and poverty and I think feminism is what you make it and for me it's very individualized it's something that I've explored and is always growing for me thank you Simon I don't consider myself a feminist just the modern-day feminist movement I don't agree with it a lot thank you that's me so I am a pro-life feminist which I guess is something that has to be said these days since it's become so synonymous with abortion rights but I'm a feminist because I believe in equality for women and that through our rights and Liberation's we have a job to stand up for the weaker and more vulnerable and more marginalized everybody in the human family who would fall under that category which also includes unborn women and men thank no no yes I actually struggle with identifying at the phone for a lot of different reasons and when I think about when I might intersecting identities as it pertains for being black as it pertains to being also trans as it pertains to this movement it I struggle with saying oh I'm a feminist but also support women's rights at the same time so it's something that I sit with where do I fall in as and as it pertains to moving I know the issues that I want to talk about so I lean more towards the issues versus saying that I quickly identify historically knowing how feminists as a movement it's moving currently godamn is the term feminist inclusive of all women know why I think that as a Jewish woman it's very exclusive towards Jewish women you know I when I was at the Women's March you know the leaders of the women's March are known to be very anti-semitic and I just don't feel as a Jewish woman or as a conservative woman that I belong in the feminist movement area and then I was just gonna second what Lauren said in terms of being exclusionary for Jewish women in particular I think it was really egregious the way in which it took so long for people especially on the left to actually condemn or distance themselves from the women's March um and I think there are other people on this panel who could probably speak as well to the fact that if you are pro-life as I am myself am there is also no space for you in modern feminism you know the tent of modern feminism does not it does not include Jewish women it does not include conservative women and certainly does not include pro-life women I I actually disagree I think that I understand certainly why a lot of people feel isolated from the modern feminist movement because I think that there are a lot of outspoken people who've sort of tried to narrow down what it means to be feminist I actually think that anybody of any gender can be a feminist as long as they believe that people should be equal and should be treated equally regardless of what their sex or gender is as somebody who gets told on a daily basis that I'm not a feminist because of my pro-life views I think it's really easy to say well like okay you won't let me sit at your table but it I'm gonna say where I want and I think that that's kind of the beauty of feminism right is this radical movement says you you are supposed to be rebellious and if people aren't gonna create space for you then you take space for yourself so if you're not a feminist are you against women I mean unless you're against women yeah exactly I think it can be against women and not a feminist but I don't think that just identifying as a lot of feminists means that you're against women because I think that a lot of people just identify against what they see as what feminism is and not necessarily the actual idea of feminism is this larger conceptual idea and I think too you can be a feminist and still be against women just because you subscribe to a label doesn't mean that you're like peachy my next question similar to a question I was before but now I'm changing it up our feminists anti men I think there are some I do think that there are some people who view feminism as anti men and I think there is a smaller number of people who consider themselves feminists and are anti men and I think - there's a conflation of patriarchy and men yeah and so people like you know feminism is is anti patriarchy right and like because there are so many systems that are against women it feels it's a fear that like if we're gonna be duplicated you know like this idea of black power being anti white it's like no it's just Pro black you know like chill out but just this fear that it's going to challenge the status quo in a negative way but there are some very outspoken feminist who are anti men and for like various reasons and they exist but to characterize the whole group as that or that is being negative you know is a whole other thing I also think that men are like really valuable allies in this in this movement because they hold a lot of power and privilege and like they should be leveraging it to help put us at the front to help us amplify our voices and our stories yeah and that's that's what solidarity looks like seeing their success their well being as tied to my own is really important and I want to work them in and I want to leverage their privilege to help amplify all of our voices right and I like that you brought up the idea of patriarchy because I think that people view patriarchy as men like all men are in positions of power etc and that's not true it's about this certain view of how society should function that in many ways hurts men as well great idea that you have to be like ultra fit ultra masculine you have to provide that you can't have any mental health issues that you have to be straight that you have to be just kind of in this box it's very harmful for people because like that is not how the mass majority of people have function in human history I just also want to push back in the idea that you know we live in a society that's necessarily dominated by men because if you actually look at educational achievement and attainment in this country women are the ones that are getting the the vast or the vast majority of bachelor's degrees advanced higher education is now dominated by women so when we say you know we live in a society where men are dominating it I'd actually say there's a lot of evidence out there that is suggesting that women are actually outpacing men and especially in terms of earnings and all sorts of other things so I think we can have a longer conversation about that as well I'd be happy to but I do think that there is you know this attitude that you know women are being you know oppressed by men I think there there's a lot to suggest out there especially Christina Hoff Sommers has done quite a bit of data on this that suggests that men are falling behind especially when it comes to educational attainment so I think that we have to be careful about the words we use and we say that it's a male-dominated society because I think women are dominating in a lot of different ways and I'm I'm happy to see women succeed I just want to know we're talking about the past and all of this stuff I just want to know how we're gonna fix it how we're gonna get past and move forward instead of just being stuck on the past what by talking about it yeah I think that part of what empowers people to change the president is knowing what what structurally against them in the past right so I'm tired of talking if we want to you know make progress and do better and get women working you know and stop you know single moms from being porn stuff where their programs how we're gonna reach out how we don't fix it both talking is really not doing nothing you say you don't identify the feminists and you just want to see the action you want to leave them about actually I'm not about just keep talking and just talking and talking I won't programs let's go let's go to the White House let's go to the government let's go out here let's go vote let's make sure that our representatives are doing what they were supposed to be doing let's get back to the neighborhood you know what I'm saying come together make our own programs you can say I'm all about that stuff I'm not about just sitting down talking about action in America today do you feel that women still need to fight for equality yes why just look at the GOP okay where's the representation I think that's the thing coming from Texas being surrounded by a lot of conservatives and knowing representation is important knowing that people don't know what they don't know and if there's not a female voice there or a woman of color or a trans person to bring these issues up to the table it's not going to get dealt with there's not going to be any type of solutions or policies or programs that go into play and I'm at the point now where I don't think the government's the end-all be-all I think it's time we have to save ourselves and so I think that that's kind of what we have to come back to his grassroots activism and being the help that our communities need because we see the need they're very visible to us they're not visible in politics at this point at least not on the right even though there was like this robot you know there was this awakening on the Democrat side in terms of having more women I wouldn't say that any a lot of the women on in with that came into the Democratic Party or were representing the Democrats we're not women that I felt like I could really connect with for me at least if it's a man or a woman if it's the ideology that I can align with I don't necessarily need a woman to feel represented they're not quality Republican women then there definitely are but on my point is is that you know there there is definitely like a messaging and imaging problem within the GOP I'm not disputing that but I vote based on whatever ideas I think are being put forth and I think are the best whether it's a man or a woman putting them for so I'm gonna move on we're already on the topic of the government and just everything that's going on so I'm gonna move on with a couple questions here but by a show of hands who here voted for Trump I don't publicize my votes actually so does anyone have questions for the women here that voted for Trump the reason why I voted for Trump is because I actually was a fellow for the Democratic Party and so I just really did not like Hillary Clinton you know I actually also did a lot of community work for Bernie Sanders as well and I don't know I was in this I literally sat in the voting booths for like well it was a long time I don't know I just like to check the box honestly I thought it was I honestly didn't even think he was gonna win so part of it was a kind of a joke but but again I again I don't know but probably before speak to the privilege that that holds for that election to be a joke for you right it wasn't really a joke I was like you know I said it well I mean let me read let me recant when I met by a joke you know I didn't like either party you know I think it was like I if Bernie Sanders was on the ticket I would have voted for Bernie Sanders I really did at the time really love what he said what he stood for because you know he really did a lot of grassroots and I related to him as a Jewish American and I thought that socialism was the answer and then you know but then was Hillary what happened with Hillary Clinton when she stole the election from him you know I just couldn't vote for for her just she was a woman so I did vote for Trump why I didn't because that's not that's wasting a vote but it was a joke but it was a joke vote me I support Trump simply because he a businessman and I come from a business family I was raised my dad was a single dad he owned his own business so you know who wouldn't vote for Trump is a visit no he's a billionaire if it's handed he's an entire being there just because his dad gave him a million dollars out the words what does that mean you have to keep up with that how you build from that one meal I personally feel like I mean he got that 1 million he went all the way like internet almost into like what a billion dollar debt came up out of that and have been successful every since and I mean and me I'm not a person that just sit there and watches 1 news shall not go out and I go to the women's March I go and I talk to everybody both sides I'm not a one sided person I would never be that because once you were one sided person then they can easily eat you alive period do you consider yourself Republican no I'm a conservative but you like Trump yeah yeah any other questions yeah I didn't vote for Hillary Clinton or for Donald Trump honestly it's something that I thought on a lot because uh you know it was really important to me I know that one vote doesn't matter that much but the ideas behind the vote I think do matter and for me I didn't I just I tried it I weighed them on everything and I just kept coming up where they were just equally bad these were the two least popular presidential candidates of American history period both of them right and I'm gonna like recant my statement you know I it was a really hard election because you know it was like my first time voting and again you know I thought that Donald Trump is a really person he didn't represent me and do I regret my decision I'm not gonna divulge in that but but again I think that voting is important and what I said it was a joke I think that was kind of an appropriate thing to say also I was never gonna vote for Hillary period first of all she upset me because she over there she comes on a black radio station talking about got hot sauce in my bag like girl boo then at the end she didn't never talk about what she was gonna do for the black community but she had the nerve to get beyond saying jay-z obento was too concerned two days before election like girl how is that gonna help us we love Beyonce and jay-z but how is that gonna happen to black community she called us super predators her husband said up there he signed a whole crime bill that which locked up the most black men eh I'm not about to know she got it I wasn't gonna vote for her period she's so corrupt like the Clintons they corrupt I would never support them and let me just say as a feminist I felt like Hillary Clinton's campaign very much was trying to profit off of this whole idea that she was gonna be the first woman president if we look for her who voted for her it was largely women in their 60s and I think it's because for those women they saw this as the one opportunity for women to ever get to the higher office millennial women like me we didn't vote for Hillary Clinton because I think that we see that the world is getting to a place where there's gonna be a chance for a woman who might actually be good for the office right she felt like she just owned the election like when her and Obama was going at it they literally destroyed each other and then they came out and they was like all buddy-buddy oh you think since you know you friends with Obama I'm a vote for you cuz on the black hang you know we we was down with Obama girl boom get up out of here you gotta meet my stuff Hillary Clinton tried to play me and she wasn't furious let's go questions so later on I'm gonna never play the period everything Trump said that he was gonna do he did it period so everybody freely around the diamond what has been your experience with progressive women oh no I got you voted for Trump you mean like once I came out as a trump supporter I got a lot of hate I lost a lot of friends a lot of family members you know I get called Uncle Tom Cooney it don't even matter like do you feel like you get it on both sides both being black and a woman yeah being black they always play as a black woman I'm just I'm a business I'm a business woman I want to own my own business I want to be a billionaire the whole the only time I've ever been attacked was by liberal women so it's really ironic when you say Oh conservatives or this and that when when I find that liberals are some of the most intolerant people one of my friends got punched in the face at UC Berkeley just because he was tabeling with a conservative organization you see this happening all the time versa and vice versa or die like lately not die like dydz death and I think I think when we having this conversation about conservative I think it's also like as I've lifted that how this country uplifts white supremacy and there is a conversation about anti blackness that we also must and get to have a conversation about that exists in the space I thought that we were talking about politics on being conservative or liberal not colored but they're all intertwined is that you can't divide them because we exist with those all of those identities not just as a woman but a first-generation American a woman or an immigrant woman of color all those are our identities um so my next question is how is abortion pro-life and pro-choice wrapped up into feminism so that's one path there I think for a lot of people feminism this wave of feminism has become synonymous with abortion and so it's something where if you don't subscribe to abortion then you don't belong in the feminist movement and I think that that's where we're trying to create a space because we follow something called the consistent life ethic which means we oppose all forms of violence the duration of someone's life so we're anti-war we're anti-death-penalty anti-torture we extended into the womb when human beings are at their weakest most vulnerable by also being anti-abortion so for me this is actually a very progressive belief more human rights for more human beings and when I talk to people about this you know the the common response I get is like all right I disagree with that but I see where you're coming from and so from there I try to take it to a common ground perspective of you know if you're pro-choice cool like legally you can have an abortion this in this country but let's talk about what these other choices are as well and how can we support women who are facing unplanned pregnancies like I had when I was 16 years old you know what was the support and honestly the privilege I had to be able to choose life for my son because so many women don't have that and so by saying oh you know abortions pro-choice for a lot of women it's not it's the only choice it's a necessary evil and so I think that feminists have to come together and create space to have dialogue like this and I think personally I you know a very much agree and I I'm always kind of like the one folks say they're pro-life but then they don't give a about black people getting murdered in the streets they don't care about black trans women having the life expectancy of 35 years old I'm kind of like where is this energy to be quote unquote pro-life but the only life you care about is before you know that's exactly yeah so I feel like it has to be more holistic approach and I think that when you see feminism that has this one axis that only talks about abortion like having gone to school in Louisiana I knew kids who knew what abortion was before the new it up HAP's near was and you should be able to talk about all of sexual health not just you know the most sensational elements of sexual health I mean I have a lot of opinions about this because I am from Texas and I went to Catholic school they would pass around the little fetuses and yet I've always believed like you know the baby at different months differently in America you're not unless there's a something wrong you can't have an abortion at nine months this is not Asia this is not one of those have you not been paying attention to New York what just happened yes you can so this is Virginia there's also the Democrats voted against is born alive survivor basically there was a bill that was proposed that would have criminalized not providing health care to a child that survives an abortion and this is something that I felt like this is the logical conclusion of abortion is infanticide when you decide to dehumanize a child and decide that it's worth is based on its convenience in your life and you have decided that once that child is born and it survives a botched abortion it's living and breathing and it's not a criminal activity to deny it health care take it to a hospital that is hugely problem I think that is reprehensible and it is infanticide so from a medical context when an abortion happens and there you know like the fetus is otherwise viable then you don't generally see just fetal tissue being discarded it generally is like if the mother's life is in danger if it's an atopic pregnancy but this is getting into like a lot of medical medical jargon and I think that this particular bill was used to like to paint Democrats as baby killers and that's an area we see a lot I mean Margaret Sanger she literally came up with Planned Parenthood to kill black people she's a new genesis yes and also what also confuses me about the women's movement the feminist movement is that we always be like all the female is the future but we killing them wasn't happening was not happy when does that happen I mean I was raised I was raised up in a rough area he was raised up with a single mom what if your mom would abort it you you wouldn't be here to talk right I wouldn't be here to talk though either if I hadn't made it to higher education if I hadn't made it to Columbia and I'm pro-choice in every sense I'm pro-choice in the sense that you should be able to choose your life path that you should be able to go to college that you should be able to have that dream job no matter where you're from and if abortion is a part of that story you know if birth control is a part of the story of sex education yet that's what I want to work in as we make this conversation I don't know but it's your work I think we should be talking about birth control and/or sex education Wow fortunately using birth control and most people don't use abortion as birth control but I think and mostly what notions if they had is the birth control we need to have OTC not insurance not going through but we need ot see access to birth control any over-the-counter over-the-counter five bucks for everybody not just for birth control but for Plan B which it's worth mentioning people confuse it with the abortion drugs there is a pill that you can take that will induce an abortion Plan B does not do that what it does is it prevents what Plan B prevents a pregnancy from happening essentially what it does is it prevents an egg from it prevents a fertilized egg from implanting so you never become pregnant in the first place and if you're already pregnant it does not harm the baby and this is huge this is a big one we have to culturally change what it means to be a young poor or single mother as long as you're shaming women for being single moms for being young moms as long as we're treating people poorly as long as we're holding them back if they're not able to go to school they're not able to get a job they're not able to do all these things you're giving them an incentive for abortion when they're getting kicked out of church they get you kicked out of their homes like that is the cause of most of most of what this is I mean a lot of the rest of it is just like someone who really wanted their baby finds out that their things were not a brain without heartiest movement unfortunately it's kind of pushing this narrative that you can't have your child and go to school you can't have your child and you know achieve this successful life like my femininity and where'd the sisterhood that's gonna come around and support you as the daughter of a woman who went to college in the 70s and like Miami I'm from rural Texas this man when I was home recently was I'm he was like I want you to vote for me I'll protect your rights to go hunting and fishing without a license any time and no background checks and my mom is 65 and she said what about my right to abortion and he said you know I backed the Bible and she started chanting my body my choice my body my choice but even then it was like they were both yelling at each other there no conversation and at least now I like that there's conversation but I do think it's my body my choice and that the government should not be regulating it because we're gonna go around it anyway coat hangers like right horrific terrific name yeah that's the issue it's its supply and demand right so they're trying to cut off supply but they're not addressing the demand side and why this is issue I think preventative care I think section education like all of these things every prevented potential pregnancy is to prevent a potential abortion so I am all for us actually addressing the demand side and freaking keep the Bible out of it it's just basic science and biology at this point like that's how we have a conversation hands do you support them me too with me I used to okay and why did you use I feel like a me-too movement have been hijacked honestly today once more it's been hijacked honestly by whom by liberals they took it to extreme I went to a protest it was believed all women no because my dad is a single dad he have dated many women what a woman lied on my dad then I wouldn't have my dad to raise me and I would wear I being in foster care or something I understand I'm a victim of molestation and stuff so I understand that I understand what you're going through but to sit there and say Oh believe all women and just to demonize a man I don't agree with that let me add on to that you know I think that they need to movement did a lot of good but with that being said I think the whole idea believe all women unequivocally is also a problem because you know there are instances where women do lie and you know even an accusation can cause horrific damage towards an individual it's it's it's damaging so we need to be very careful how we go about this I want to speak to that a little bit because I very much do believe in due process but I don't think that believe women or when they say believe survivors I don't think they mean believe them in the face of all evidence that points to the opposite I think it's more like if someone comes and tells you hey my car got stolen you don't tell them prove to me that your car got stolen there's no way I won't believe it until you can prove it I think it's more you leave that their car was stolen and then you investigate it as if it were stolen and then if it suddenly appears that it wasn't stolen and they've had it at home in their garage the whole time then you're like hey I don't believe you on this now you have to justify it right I think that's a really accessible way to put it right we're trying to change the culture it's about changing culture and like changing the assumptions that are ingrained in us so my next question has what culture change for the better because of me - I think yes and no okay I think yes and no because I think that it has made a lot more people empathetic to other people's issues and I think that's a big part of it I think unfortunately also it's created the sort of reactionary ISM we saw these stories of people who are saying like oh well now I just won't invite women out to go to lunch with me or I don't hire women because I think that this might be a risk or stuff like that now it's like well now can't you be in a room alone with a you know with my with the woman and it's like well oftentimes being a woman in the workforce you are anticipating I know I'm not going to be in a room by myself I am going to make sure that it's like glass and there's people present and so I think that now you're seeing this cautiousness perhaps on for folks who have had the privilege of not having to think about rhino constantly who are not considering this I think there's also there are people who are predators and there are people who misunderstood consent at some point in some way Society right exactly what society does make it very easy to do that and so I think we need to understand the difference between the two for me I can't think of the me to move met and not have to face the fact that like okay like these people are suffering major repercussions in their career like Louie CK Harvey Weinstein and I'm so glad that's wonderful but that I have to look at Trump and he said the grab the thing like I cannot get over that I cannot get over Trump said that in privacy this is a free speech you could say whatever you want to say that was private and he recorded him he violated Trump Trump can say whatever you want to say women talk nasty about men and they own privacy and so can't treat that about man I don't say that I want so bad Trump said groupies will literally lets you have y'all never been around groupies cuz they do my grandmother used to do that like we is what happens in private and if that part like I don't want a politician in the white like you know unfortunately that's the case that does like messed up in private okay by Obama Snow Queen everybody on the same because we've is illegal in some places yeah I'm just saying I think the language is reprehensible I agree so I can create that I also think that like when we talk about the meat when we talk about like behavior of people I think what happened with President Clinton and his intern is also a violation right that was a power position that was a position that he abused so I think there are a lot of men out there that make bad choices and so I think the need to movement what if at least done is started a conversation or continued or amplify that's amplified better word yeah amplified a conversation that we as women we're already having me right yes and that yeah but I do think about Democrats is that like they let Clinton fly but then he was gonna go back in the White House okay so he was gonna be the first first man right he was gonna be the first first man so when we want to be like real about this conversation he was gonna be the first first man we've ever had in this country right but that would also be holding his wife accountable for but exactly what I'm saying why I'm gonna spin vote for her because she holding men to account for their right finish and then we can move on to deja and then having it but you were going on you were saying it better than I was um but she did try to silence his accusers in a lot of different ways and if we're gonna talk about some use and exactly talk about the importance of the me2 movement we have to reckon with things that happen in the past that are probably uncomfortable and I think that's been a big part of the me2 movement I do think there are excesses to them YouTube movement that you talked about very poignant ly which is sort of the backlash or the attitude that people have towards it do I think there's a possibility of people misunderstanding I think that's like that's been a big significant chunk of it I don't know the percentage but I do think that there are a lot of men now that are like wait like how do I behave now what's the appropriate way to behave and the hard part with that too is a lot of people meet their spouses at work and so a lot of the behavior yeah a lot of the behavior that we engage in when we are dating with someone it's hard because those boundaries get blurred at work so many times when people are just starting a relationship so if we want to talk about the me2 movement I think we have to be really nuanced but I also think we should talk about you know what are the dynamics of dating and how do we navigate I mean this is kind of scary for men and women how do we navigate how to date in the workplace do you see reality that's actually a question that I wanted to bring up do you feel that me too has affected dating so I am friends a lot of men and they think that they're scared of dating I don't and when I talk to them like can you please elaborate and they're like well what happens if I had too much to drink and the girl had too much to drink and she wakes up the next morning and because I've had a discussion with a lot of females as well and I had a conversation with one of my TAS in one of my classes and what she said was absolutely terrifying she said if I had alcohol and the guy had alcohol and I'd wake up the next morning and I don't remember it then that's rape but I said well it's like but what happens if both of you guys are intoxicated during a night should you not have sex when you're drinking at all like who should limit that so I think that's a very like serious discussion we should have with our partners but a lot of men are terrified of taking a girl home had any amount of alcohol because he doesn't want to get accused of sexual assault I think you know better worries about Grantham to do it and not worry exactly join the club like girls and women and Femmes have been terrified to go on dates and go home and drink forever so join the club like let's all get on it together and fix it because it's on all of us like so as a person who's like isn't engaging only with straight people like so My partner and I we were together prior to the meeting movement but like in our own a daily like activities like we asked me Tyler that can I kiss you and like are more vocal during sex and I think that's like better oh by the way I'm Muslim and I have sex that's gonna be a big thing I can't wait for that backlash tweets but anyway I think that you know as far as looking at like sexual relationships looking at intimacy and looking at dating like just conversations about consent and being more firm about consent and having more conversations like whether that's like hey I take medication or hey like this is like I'm on birth control or I'm not or like what had was last time you were tested I think all of that has to be a larger conversation and I'm seeing that within the queer community have been a lot more as me too is happening but also because you know we have to deal with more of this and because you know like health outcomes for example so I'm seeing a lot I don't know about the straights though it sounds pretty rough I'll talk about the straights and the whites and that but I'm I mean I think I'm from such a like conservative rural area where I was always told like being a flirt means you have a good personality I'm supposed to let people hug me or I'm being really rude and for me this idea of consent and young girls saying actually I don't want to hug I'm so like that is radical to me because I was taught you're being rude to this person and so consent is parallel to boundaries for me for my next question by a show of hands are trans women helping push forward women's movement and gender go I want to hear the earth so why so we wouldn't have the LGBTQ rights movement if it wasn't for Sylvia Rivera and Marsha P Johnson storia let's go for real like if we didn't have we would still be in this idea of you know gay but you know cisgender white men saying we are just like you except we are gay we would we would not have marriage equality today if it wasn't for Soviet March Pete Johnson pushing the envelope and saying no we're saying no to police brutality we're saying no to respectability we're saying no to this idea that we have to fit into your straight box and then just check the gay box or check the trans box and still be okay and so you you continue to see like even though that you know we wouldn't have the advancements in the women's liberation movement if we hadn't had this conversation about LGBTQ rights movement happening simultaneously I think as a trans woman on this panel I often experience that women feel that trans women are not supporting was it's like well trans women often get pushed to the corner like we don't want you in our spaces but yet we stand and fight even with like as transform of color we started and supported the black lives matter movement and then oftentimes we still see black trans women being murdered and there's no conversation around it for the people that disagree disagree it's some people didn't need to hear you know I think it's interesting though right because when you have to you didn't raise your hand which is passive but when you have to actively deny someone like their humanity their agency to their face it's really something different I'm not denying anything I don't have that much knowledge on it so I'm listening and I'm learning exactly that's beautiful all right perfect so the traditional gender roles have a place in society yes sure I think as long as they're voluntary I think as long as people actually want that and we're in a situation where they're actually able to make those choices for themselves on an individual level I think it's fine the problem is when people are forced into it and I've also seen a lot of shaming from like radical liberal like feminists who shame the stay at home moms it's not my kind of lifestyle I want to work but why are we shaming women who don't want to work and who want to raise their kids there's nothing shameful about that but I think also shame men who want to stay home and raise their no I agree I agree I think that there is inherent value in traditional gender roles and there are certain occupations that are more suited to like I'm thinking about there's certain time like for construction for instance right when we talk about this inequity a gender role in gender distribution in certain industries like construction I don't necessarily think the answer as we go into the construction industry and say okay we need 50 percent women and 50 percent men because I do think that there are certain gender differences that sort of make women at least gravitate towards a certain field and not because there's a cultural pressure but because there's an innate desire to be there I disagreed slightly because I feel like gender role as it exists currently it's also tied to binary right so again like my experience is different and I see trans folks who operate differently and and in school like so I feel like general has this picture patriarchal kind of system of how if your mass presenting you you automatically fall under operating masculine and if you're a femme presenting you automatically have to fit into the role of how feminine and women operate which i think is hindering on just again the intimacy and what can actually be possible to create so slightly disagree my next question are there ways in which women are privileged in our society as opposed to men yes sounds like I mentioned before the draft women like the women don't have to sign up for the draft you know women are more likely to win custody battles just because they're a woman again and women are more likely believe during sexual assault there's just a lot of instances where women have privileges over men and we got free drinks there are informal ways in which we you know women are advantage I think we're forgiven for certain things a little bit easier I think that when it comes to like fight getting a parking ticket or getting a speeding ticket or having something paid for at the bar like you savings yeah actual crimes but there are things I think that women are served again there's like this forgiving attitude towards women and I think that does you know play into this I does become a sort of privilege an informal privilege I think when we're talking about those like cultural privileges that they don't apply to all women like that is like white women have a lot of those privileges whereas brown and black women are not getting those same privileges we're not experiencing that and I think women white women have a lot of privilege over a lot of men of color too rich white women / like the poor men of color from my neighborhood the privileged difference is enormous even not rich I mean I grew up without money but because I look like this I got away with a lot like and the interesting thing too is like how assumptions about gender can influence - so like because I wear a hijab I'm red as Arab but when I'm red is you know when I have my like little fro out and I'm like red is black then I don't have that same like grace that a woman is granted so I'm I'm red as demure and quiet but when I'm you know red as black I'm rather angry and violent yeah masculine but when you look at you know P being read as a Muslim woman I feel like I can get away with more like in a professional space because oh she's speaking up she's being brave and it's like no I'm just loud but it's assumed that I'm not going to be and then that is given like a token of wow good on you which has come back to it like when you ask these questions I often say it's to whom you're asking them because we have multiple identities and multiple experiences so of course you're going to say yes and you're going to bring up the draft and of course I'm going to say no because that's not my experience of privilege you know like it's not my existence I also think it's worth mentioning like all these things that you brought up and you brought up but I think that or even the drinks thing right like the free drinks ladies night all of that all of these actually like they're sort of viewed as criticisms of feminism or this idea that like oh well women don't always have to don't always aren't always at the disadvantaged position sometimes men are and I think that's true but that's the thing like that's all part of what the patriarchy is it's not about men versus women or anything like that it's about the structure that's kind of pitting us against each other the military thing is so interesting to me from our Jewish friends because I have always been when I would my ex is Jewish and when I found out his grandmother fought with the will you help me say it's the hug and I was like the Israeli army I vote Bama ly in the military and I was always like that is so cool like I would I've always had this like fantasy I'm a lover not a fighter but like that's it was never like an option really pushed to me and I know so many women who one of my good friends she was one of the first women in the Navy and it is amazing but it's like that's a privilege that women have thought for so this idea that that's an inherent privilege to not or like that the you know to not be drafted is weird to me yeah rather no one gets drafted to be honest yeah I mean this is great I love having this conversation I like hearing all these perspectives because I think most people really want to build a better world and we're just in disagreement about how to do that and we don't get this opportunity to talk and to understand where we're all coming from and I think when we do it makes us all stronger and that's where the creative solutions come from when we come together we can find common ground solutions creatively thank you ladies this is amazing you guys are you ladies are so amazing you're smart you're beautiful beautiful Souls and I'm so honored to be in your presence who wants to get drinks it was weird how like simple everyone was that's like so I'm like freaked out about it [Music]

Channel: VICE

Views: 1,619,015

Rating: 4.7219377 out of 5

Keywords: documentary, documentaries, docs, interview, culture, lifestyle, world, exclusive, independent, underground, videos, journalism, vice guide, vice.com, vice, vice magazine, vice mag, vice videos, film, short films, movies, feminism, feminist, women, extended, debate, united states, lgbtq, trans women, hillary clinton, donald trump, conservative, progressive, liberal, republican, democrat, me too, extended discussion, identity, consent, relationships, straight, gay, love, voting, women debate, broadly, libertarian

Id: WMvih_KEMWo

Length: 44min 11sec (2651 seconds)

Published: Wed Mar 27 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/FightDragonGetGold]

They had something similar on black conservatives. Very well regarded. I think they had an insight that they could be edgy by being open minded and allowing traditional conservative voices. In two years, vice will present their next edgy piece on starting a family and buying a house.

[u/CallMeBigPapaya]

What I get from this is that no one actually likes strict labels and the purity testing that you see in online political discourse. I'm not surprised either because when I talk to people in real life they don't do the same purity testing.

So what is it that actually makes people turn on their own as soon as they step out of line on one or two issues?

[u/ANIKAHirsch]

There weren't enough conservative women on this panel (only 3) to really push back on the terrible postmodern ideas presented by the progressives. The patriarchy does not exist. Women are not oppressed. We don't need to "fight for our freedom" or "come up with creative solutions". Women need to take personal responsibility for their choices and their lives.

And the TIM should not have been included in this panel. He obviously made a few of the women uncomfortable to speak up when the question about trans people was asked.