Cults: groups of people who feel great devotion to a religious belief or practice regarded by others as sinister or unorthodox. The concept of a cult as a sociological classification can be traced back to 1932 when it was first introduced by American sociologist Howard P Becker Since then, cults have taken on a largely elusive and controversial role in society with infamous cult leaders like Jim Jones and Charles Manson gaining massive notoriety in the 1970s My name is Anthony Padilla and today I'm gonna be sitting down with former cult members to learn the truth behind this dark and dangerous world of manipulation and what exactly it takes to escape such a setting. Are these ex-cult members just average people who are simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, or did they join a cult in order to live out their most sinister fantasies with the promise of power and adoration? Did these ex-cult members knowingly join cults and search for a sense of family and support missing in their own lives or were they led down this dark path through torments and vigorous brainwashing? Hi Ruwan. R: Hey what's up man? Brooke. B: Hey Anthony, how are you? A: Good A: Thank you so much for coming out and teaching me about the wondrous world of being an ex-cult member. B: It's a very wondrous world A: It is indeed B: Yeah, and you have no idea like how much joy it brings to your life. A: What do you consider yourself: ex-cult member, someone who is at the wrong place at the wrong time? R: I don't know, I mean I don't always think it was the wrong thing is kind of like the most interesting thing I've done and it's I've Had a lot of positive things come out of it B: I used to do hoax person work and they would always put this tag under me religious abuse victim. A: Do - is that what you consider yourself? B: No, I was very offended and I actually messaged a lady and I said you can't call me a religious abuse victim I don't want to be publicly identified as a victim. A: So what would you consider yourself, then? B: Struggling. Having a hard time. I laugh so hard because I want to cry so hard, you know. A: So anytime we see you laugh we can assume it's replacing a cry. B: Pretty much, yeah. A: What was the name and general beliefs of the cult that you were part of? R: It's called One Taste and yeah, they focused around female sexuality is like a way towards - they didn't say enlightenment but it was kind of like a spiritual thing like they did this thing called orgasmic meditation where a man strokes a woman's [ ] in a prescribed manner and they would do that in group settings - kind of like a yoga class but like where people are stroking [ ]. A: Okay, and I'm thinking are they saying like stroke up stroke down? R: No, but we'd be on a timer and like yeah, because there's a whole ritual to it. A: Like you're playing chess? R: You know, it's 15 minutes. There's a certain like series of steps you do. It was kind of ritualized the idea was if you're doing it in a room with other people on the same page as you you kind of like feel the same vibe. B: Okay, so the name of the cult is really really exciting. It's called the Institute in basic life principles. A: Woah, that's like a lot of words that are just very strange together. B: Yeah, the guy who started it, Bill Gothard, - just FYI, his name is spelled - last name is spelled G-O-T-H-A-R-D A: Got it. B: So his last name is Bill Got-Hard A: Oh god! That didn't even hit me at first. B: No, I know it took me like 15 years to figure it out and 20 years to be able to laugh at it. A: Now I can laugh at it. B: Now I can laugh at "Got Hard". So when the Institute and basic life principles started it was very like anti hippie. It was like no rock music. No beards. No long hair. No denim jeans. A: Weird. Denim jeans was - is that a sin? B: That used to be considered like a really tacky thing, yeah. A: And look what we got here! B: Oh, I was hoping those weren't on camera. A: How did you find yourself part of this cult? R: I'd been following them for a while cuz the founder had this really interesting TED talk on like female sexuality and like and had all these events in New York on like feeling your emotions and being vulnerable and really being connected and I was 24 I was in an existential crisis and I was kind of just like looking for something interesting A: Yeah R: And it really spoke to me like it really helped me open up and like find certain ways of being confident that I hadn't been before. It sounds silly saying it's a sexual yoga class but it really does help. It did help me get into my body and feel my emotions and like pay attention to people. A: How did it help you be in touch with your emotions? R: A lot of the games they played A: Games? It's like Chuck E Cheese in there? R: Well like so they're intro events weren't sexual. There was a lot of talking and the idea was you get into your body and you express your real emotions. Which is great for everyone, everyone should be doing that anyway. So I would always leave there like feeling really good feeling really confident and stuff. B: I was seven when my parents joined and that's just the weirdest age, right? You have just enough life that you remember. A: Yeah. B: This is what life was before I went to school I had friends I watched cartoons, you know A: Yeah B: and then suddenly everything shifts but you're still young enough that you believe in things like demons and God and things like that, right? You still believe in in the supernatural and so you're more vulnerable to kind of internalizing these belief systems. A: So how long total were you in this cult? R: 2 years. A: 2 years total? B: I was in for about 10 years. A: Ten years. So from age seven to seventeen? So, pretty much your entire developmental age. A: Can you run me through a typical day as part of this cult? B: The way the cult is disseminated which is a little different than most of them is it's through a home school program, right? So Bill Gothard goes around to all these Christian churches He gives his seminar and the end thing, of course, is selling his home school curricula called the Advanced Training Institute and the home school curriculum is 52 booklets called the Wisdom Booklets and each booklet is based on a verse of the Bible. Every single wisdom booklet starts off with a wisdom quiz and the wisdom quizzes are intentionally impossible to answer because they're part of sexual grooming and they're part of brain washing. The idea is if they undermine your confidence in yourself, then you're more amenable to being brainwashed. (A:Right, right) B: You're more amenable to being manipulated It'll be like, "Hey, if you were in this situation, what would your natural reaction be?" And you put your natural, human, emotional, creature reaction, right? And then the first thing they say is like, "Wrong! You're wrong!" and so they train you to distrust your own instincts and they train you to distrust your own emotions. It's like Fake News the - the Home School Curricula R: I moved into one of their residences which was in a penthouse in Harlem, like kind of a nice place A: You lived - you lived in a penthouse with them? R: Yeah, but we were like in bunk beds every morning we'd get up at 7:00 a.m we'd do the orgasmic meditation things. You're stroking someone's [ ] A: Someone, just someone! R: You know, you'd kind of organize it like, "Hey, I'll do the first one with you and I'll do the second one with you" A: And you're like "Someone! Uh, do I have someone?" R: Yeah, but it was funny because it was like a female-centric organization so a lot of times the women were asking men and like men were kind of like in lower supply so like yeah, I don't know, it was always I was always I was being asked to stroke somebody's [ ] A: What first made you feel inclined to want to leave? R: The only reason why I left when I did was, um I was trying to get access to the Guru 'cus like she - like the leader, 'cus like she was like- A: The cult leader was called the Guru? R: Nah, I'm calling her a guru 'cus that's like cult language but I mean like she was the founder, the leader, and they gave me an ultimatum If you're gonna be in this deep with us, you need to commit your life to us. A: Woah R: And like they - they would never like explicitly say that unless someone was really trying to get in. A: You better be 100% on our team and by that I mean devote your entire life R: Basically. They put the ultimatum on me and I was like like I'm not gonna stay my whole life in this thing So I left. B: When I was 14 my parents and I went to this garage sale and I was - there was like nickel - they had like a box with like - every book was a nickel. One of the books I got at this garage sale was a college course catalog for Texas A&M University I- I didn't even know what it was I was just like, "Five cents?! I can get lots of books! I can read lots of stuff!" and I just got everything and I didn't even realize it as a college course catalog I was just like, "It's a book!" and I- I got back to my house and I started looking through it and I just became obsessed with this idea of going to college thinking like how cool would it be to be sitting in this class and someone's telling you about astronomy or someone's telling you about like women's roles and the medieval times. That idea of being part of an intellectual or knowledge-based community was just so enticing to me I became so obsessed with it and so I sat down with my parents and I was like, "I really want to go to college" "Let me take some classes. Let me work for like a year or two. Just let me have this- this moment" "I promise I'll come back" and they - They - they thought it was a demon speaking through me rather than that being my actual desire. A: And did they make you feel shame for that? B: They per- I had an exorcism performed on me A: Because you wanted to go to college. B: Yeah. A: Did that teach you to never bring that up with them again? B: Yeah, so my parents and my brother like went on a Christmas vacation, I wasn't invited because I was the demon possessed girl and the night before my parents and my brother were supposed to come back, my mom called and she was like she sounded so upset and she said, A:What?! B: and I- I just started crying and freaking out and I was like "Oh my god, my brother and my dad are dead" and then she just started laughing and she said A: Why did she say that? B: She's an awful person? And I hung up the phone and I- I gave it zero rational thought, I gave it zero fore-planning I thought, "I have to get out of here" "I will not be here when they get - I cannot be here" as soon as I hung up the phone I ran into my room I grabbed a couple of things, I ran out to the car, and I drove away and I- I never talked to them again A: And you just kept driving, you didn't know where you were going? B: I had no idea where I was going. A: Were there any strange rules that the cult had that you had to alter your life to live by? B: Bill Gothard has this the system It's like the seven basic principles of life, right? It basically mimics like how a narcissist grooms victims so it starts off The first principle is designed. God designed you this way for a reason. You're perfect. You're amazing, right? and so you leave the first night on this kind of emotional high, feeling really accepted and less insecure about things and then the subsequent six days are just Beating you down, right? If you obey everyone within your chain of command, then God is able to protect you or God will protect you A: Got it B: and if you break - if you disobey anyone in that chain of command, right? So if your dad says go clean your room and you don't, suddenly you're open to attacks from Satan You can become possessed by a demon A: If you disobey a man in your life, you will be open for attacks from Satan? B: Yeah, that's absolutely what it is, yeah. R: It's one of the only matriarchal cults They had a lot of things that weren't explicit They wouldn't say you can't ever drink alcohol, but if you did you'd feel really bad and they'd let you know It's like there's a lot of ways people like changed their lifestyle like being healthy, you know, not eating too much sugar, I mean a lot of healthy stuff. A: Sounds like good things. R: They're not bad but like it was a lot of if you slipped up you'd be shamed like they controlled you with shame A: How has your life changed since leaving the cult? R: I was totally- I could not relate to regular people like I tried to get a regular job at a restaurant and then my employer - she took One Taste classes so she was in this world She was having a bad day. And I was like, I just offered to stroke her [ ] And it didnt- it didnt- it wasn't in my head that that's a weird thing to do, like that's not cool to do with your employer A: What did she say to that? R: She said "yeah" but then, I think she felt funny about it afterwards B: I was essentially homeless for... I guess about seven years, and then I chose to become homeless again so that I could go to college because I couldn't afford both an apartment and my college tuition A: Right, yeah B: Because I was completely- I was completely ineligible for any kind of scholarships or any any kind of money for college because I had never gone to school, so I had to pay for it myself So I- I was homeless for seven years, then I had a place for a little while, and I gave that up again so I could get a college degree because I- I just really wanted to do that. That seemed really important to me A: You fulfilled your own dreams that you had as a kid B: It was like this rebellion thing it was like, "Oh you don't think I should be educated?! "Watch how much education I can get! I'm gonna get ALL the education!", you know A: And now you're educated as f*** B: I'M EDUCATED A: How do real cults in your experience differ from those portrayed in pop culture? R: They don't show the journey like they just show like the weird ritual they're doing A: Yeah, they show someone being brainwashed with everyone wearing white robes R: Yeah, and like they don't- people don't realize that like, it's like a gradual shift and like anyone, if you just- if someone changes your environment you'll slowly start thinking differently and cults have it down to a science like it's basically like a really good ad campaign that, you know, encompasses your whole life, so like anybody can like fall into a cult A: What was the most bizarre experience you had while you were a part of this cult? B: So you're not supposed to go to college, What do you think everybody who grows up on the Wisdom Booklets does instead of going to college? A: Go to church? B: You go to work for Mr. Gothard The idea is you do the whole home school program, right? (A: Yes) And then you go work for the cult. (A: Yes) So guess what happens when you go work for the cult? A: (whispers) What happens? B: Bill Gothard has [ ] with you if you're an underage girl. That was too- I should have said that more seriously, sorry I was, yeah, that was a little flippant A: I mean, I see that you're just dealing with it through comedy B: I- I'm just yeah A: You have to cause if you said it seriously, it would probably be so much - it'd be so emotionally heavy B: I know a lot of the girls that it happened to and it's awful So- so the home school curricula - the wisdom booklets are sexual grooming They teach you what to do when you're [ ] and the teaching is: It's your fault and it's there to make you a better person. [ ] is a gift from God because it makes you more spiritually connected to God and there's different parts of yourself. There's your body. There's your mind. There's your spirit. There's your soul. The only thing that he damaged was your body and your body is unimportant. Your soul is important. Your spirit is important Wouldn't you rather be physically damaged in order to be spiritually strong? So I didn't learn history, I didn't learn algebra I didn't learn anything. I learned that if I get [ ] it makes me a better person and so the reason Bill Gothard teaches this is because he's using the home school curriculum to groom underage girls I lost my family, my future, my childhood, my sense of self, my comfort with the world and myself so that I could be collateral damage in a sexual predator's quest to have [ ] with underage girls and I wasn't even one of the girls that he was interested in- In having with [ ] I just had my entire life ruined so that he could have access to them A: If there's someone watching who might be in a cult but is scared of escaping and what kind of effects that might have on them, what kind of advice would you give them? B: My life would have been a lot better a lot earlier on had I learned to trust that there are good people, there are people who do care about you there are people who want to connect with you without trying to control you and if you can find those people and you can make genuine connections with them and you can figure out some way to ask them for help when you need it or just to have them surrounded by you to have a chosen family rather than a biological family, those are the things that have made the biggest difference in my life. Also drugs. A: Has being part of that cult ever affected any of your relationships? The idea is that when you're 18 you get married, right? and you can't talk to God about who you should marry, so guess who gets to talk to God about who you're marrying? A: Your father and the guy you're gonna marry? B: Exactly. And so when my dad was gonna pick my husband, I got one of the worst guys in the whole group because I already had this bad reputation as being this like very rebellious woman so my arranged marriage husband... was so f****** gross. A: Gross?! B: Honestly, I'm a little happy about how ugly he was because if he'd been hot, I might have stayed A: How do you feel when people judge you for having been part of a cult? R: I think they're dumb, I don't know Because like the people who are most critical, and this maybe is true of everything, people who are most critical I think they become afraid of something like someone's like, "Oh, I'm too smart to join a cult" It's like, I heard stuff like that when I was in the cult and like, in my experience Those people are pretty easily brainwashed because they- they're trying so hard to resist the belief system B: The most difficult to deal with now is that the- the pain that it caused me and the way that I think about it causes me to hurt people that I care about now, and it causes me to have difficulty being intimate with people now and it's just so difficult to think that they've robbed you of all of these things and yet still 20 years after you left they can still rob you of the things that you want the most which is just to connect with someone or to feel intimate with someone or to have someone love you A: It's permanently left a mark B: It's one thing they take these things from you in the past, but the fact that they can take something from you now too - so far removed from it, it's just... It's really tough, you know and it sucks because you- you're like these people hurt me so much and I've never wanted them to hurt the people that I care about too - but they have through me. A: When I first met you and I see you, I see you as a beacon of light you bring so much joy and laughter to everyone around you and you bring people closer to you, you make people feel excited and happy and that was my first reaction when I met you. (B: Thank you) You made me feel happy, you made me feel like I could be myself and be comfortable and you made me feel accepted and you made me feel like I was just- living a great moment and you made me feel very present in that moment. B: Yeah. Thank you so much. That really means a lot I mean, I really try I- I really actively endeavor every moment to- to never treat anyone the way that I was treated and you never mislead people, never to lie to people, you know I think that's one of the greatest harm ills you can do to another person. I think that's the real evil of cults. A: I actually have a parting gift for you B: Really? Is it drugs? Yay! A: Best Interviewer Shirts R: Awesome A: You could get this at padildoshop.com but you don't have to. R: F*** yeah B: Who was it made for? Like my fat twin? A: You said you wanted that size! B: What size did u get me?! XXXL? R: Subcribe to Anthony Padilla's channel. Otherwise, you won't find eternal bliss. A: Yeah Alright you got five seconds to shout-out or promote anything you want directly in the camera, go! My full store and all my work is at Ruwando.com Come visit me at UncleBrooke.com You'll be able to see some stand-up videos, some interviews, and you'll also be able to support the play that I'm writing about the cult. A: Thank you so much, Ruwan (R: Yeah, for sure) I feel like I fully understand the wondrous? world of being an ex-cult member. After spending the day with these ex cult members I've come to realize just how easily one can become absorbed into a very uncomfortable and scary situation especially amongst those who manipulate us into believing they always have our best interest in mind it's human nature to strive for acceptance amongst groups and tribes so it's no wonder these situations are far more prevalent than we wish they were See you later. Bye guys. B: Press a like B: What kind of pants are these, Anthony? A: Um, why? B: I don't know, (A: They're nice, very special) they're very strange A: They're very nice. B: What kind of pants are these called though? A: I don't know, pa- B: Are these jeans? A: Nope, they're not jeans B: Why are they so rolled up? A: They're n- A: No, they're- B: Why are they like highwaters? A: Oh, I guess they're like jeans. B: They're like highwaters, dude. (A: I guess they're jeans) Why are you wearing highwaters? A: Uh... This is cool now, I don't know if you know this B: Do you- do you know that these are called highwaters? Yeah, I was around in the 90s. I know highwaters. B: Oh, you're like 12. A: I- I am 12? B: You're 12 right? A: Plus 20. B: Oh, you're 32 right? A: I am 32. B: Ah, next year is your christological age, congratulations. A: That's that's a thing? B: Yeah. A: Christological age? B: Yeah, it's the year Christ died.
