Dissecting TES Theories | The Elder Scrolls Podcast #88

[Music] what is up ladies and gentlemen welcome back to fudge mark but i'm scott here with michael drew as always this is the elder scrolls podcast and today we're back with more elder scrolls theories we've taken comments from the previous installment of the theories podcast episode and uh now we're gonna sort of scan through we're kind of going in blind too we don't want to come with like an essay of preparation we want the sort of you know free flow of ids and pondering you know that first little lightning bolt that hits your head when you read something for the first time so uh where would we like to start well i think the top comment is the obvious one because we said comment it on the theories video so if i'm going there and looking theory by ej dubs the last the argonian made led to spears being banned throughout cyrodiil that's why the most common weapon in human history mysteriously did not appear in later games disgust damn damn yeah uh yeah okay i mean that's as good a theory as any the empire delete this now how about instead we do a theory that's that's it look um okay here's one from aaron m says i've got two theories well let's just do the first one because i didn't realize those two theories here mike the liar is regin or at least an aspect of regine he's been around since the second era and always makes fun of the current events happening in the land maike already had different looks in each game uh he which could be explained by him taking a new form in each game mike says that his father is called mike too but don't trust a guy that is called my egg the liar and in every era but i think that's kind of like he could probably work with that in the way that like beyond obviously michael is an easter egg right but if you had him as some sort of like aspect of a trickster deity among the khajiit or something yeah i feel like the only real connection you can draw is the fact that khajiit let's let's be honest here yeah but i is there is there a trickster like to be honest i don't think regine is actually the best fit because he's not a trickster he's a thief well his stealing is more so he's i guess no he is a trickster rajin is literally called the tricks to god he is yeah but nothing what does he do well i guess thievery in ways are like tricks he has these shadows in elder scrolls online just called like rajin's shadows and they go around causing mischief which aligns more with this theory so just to give you a good idea of why i think this theory is terrible is you can kind of apply this you can apply you can apply this logic to anyone so i just looked up bandar who is their bandit god and um he's known as the man of a thousand faces if you're going to have anyone any khajiit god who is also my eek then it might as well be the one who can supposedly shift its face um to appear like different khajiit you just don't want it to be regine because you're like i just genuinely this is a case of like oh khajiit must be another khajiit because you know but like obviously okay so i guess but getting foundational here i didn't think i'd have to do this but getting foundational here mike the liar appears you know through through multiple games as this easter egg and he doesn't seem to be the same character every time or you wonder you know how is he living for so long so on and so forth um and he's he tells lies right like he's he's mischievous to be honest i actually prefer the idea that he is an aspect of some deity versus like other theories i've seen where it's like oh he's immortal this or it's some family tradition thing which seems far meanier to me or something and i feel like there's been you know there's plenty of beings where there's been that sort of indirect aspect kind of feel like you know with wolf of talos this is my this is my point is it's like he's he's been around in all these games yeah okay he's just an easter egg but what sounds more likely in a fantasy world that there's a tradition where there's these who just roam around tamriel using the same name telling lies to people or because it's an aspect of a god i know it sounds far-fetched but like we're talking about a fairness universe here if who is known as a girl he's his own god it's just it's just a god that isn't really um why wouldn't it be why do you what would not the reason khajiit is well i mean he is manifesting as a khajiit in in it consistently throughout the games no matter what problems but that wouldn't that make oh maybe because god in the same way that other khajiit gods like you know like uh sherlock even you know manifest as an alfique or if you were to go like oh son oh he's going to be a nord he's going to be like an atmoran kind of looking the connection withdrawing is because he's a thief he's also a liar so therefore he's probably also the liar you see wandering around i feel like if there's a man if you're gonna have an aspect like this is the most famous burglar in in kajili history it's like it's like their most well-known cultural icon and his aspect he's one aspect after death is some random but it's not i feel like it's like someone came along and said scots one of scott's favorite deities is like nazim and that nazim is an aspect of him and or or something yeah like nazim's an aspect of my father and you're like no no no okay yeah so that's that's essentially that is my argument is that just because you can draw a connection because like oh they both speak in tamriel they both speak english or you know whatever language they're speaking there oh therefore they must be them it's like it's drawing connections based on nothing to distinguish it a little bit extra though it is because there is some sort of metaphysical element around my goliath that he keeps this mike the like character whose personality is basically the same all throughout the game seems to be the same being might look a little different whatever keeps appearing throughout time and so on so the idea that you if you had some sort of like being that feels a little like metaphysical or well something magical is going on connecting it as an aspect i'm not failing to understand any of this the part i'm asking right is why rajin because it's a kitchen thief tricks to god so he's big trick he's done all these wonderful he's done these incredible things like stealing artifacts off the arm of mephala things like that stealing a tattoo off someone's neck and now it's like my ultimate plan is i'm gonna walk around in the in the mountains and say random riddles strangely his heyday's done his heyday's done he's like look this is retirement to be fair if you do look at the elder scrolls online law and you look at these these kind of um these shadows they kind of just look like ethereal beings walking around representing different aspects of rajin uh they do kind like here's an example like one of rajin's shadows granted a wish to a bad who wanted the power to seduce any person he wished with music and so he gave him this magical liar that's what you call it right that instrument l-y-r-e like mike the liar anyway gave him this lie okay i i concede you you did it gave him this liar and the and basically it worked but the it was some kind of double-edged sword it's almost like a bit of a share gorath move where he's clavic is violent it bred so much jealousy um among other like bardic rivals that he was slain out of frustration so that's not like some epic heist thing right but it's a it's a part of rajin that led to that and there's other ones for example um like uh there's one representing desire like you know they can represent different things so my it could be some sort of aspect that only represents one part of regime i mean i kind of imagine regine anyway as sort of like jim carrey's the rid lot like like like the green suit with question marks stop it akashi and his remains dyed red and stuff and same sort of attitude as well like when he's seducing the file or is all i mean like hold on hold on hold on hold on he also did steal a tattoo right like that's not like it's not like he's all about utility that's just almost like a funny mischievous flex right it's just a prank bro but like everything he's making youtube videos he does kind of yeah no i guess um i mean like to to stray a bit from the argument i think the most interesting thing about maek is to have no understanding whatsoever of what he is and if he is some kind of god it would be much more powerful and interesting than any of the gods you already know like it'd be more closely associated with a maybe a being who has achieved kim or is kind of like has a connection to the dreamer as opposed to rajinder i i i don't i don't disagree but i do think that at the same time you could work with if you were to go like oh connected to some deity and then picking from the khajiit pantheon i feel like is a natural conclusion that's fair i think in the same way if there was some mysterious nord like for example in the same way that there is kind of like you know hans hans the fox and um panel and white strike and all that kind of stuff that i believe you know gone through the same sort a bit different because it's not the same name but you know what i mean like the same sort of entity character as an aspect of sure well i think this is one of those theories that will always be a mystery because professor are never going to associate him with with anyone other than themselves you know it's kind of like the conduit between the developers and the player not anything that can be explained in law yeah yeah all right fair enough very divisive first that's good um i feel like this this is a favorite theory by someone but i think it's worthwhile discussing um anyway uh silverfangster says still my favorite theory titus made the second ordered his own assassination via proxy because he knew how unpopular he was and wanted the empire to survive well the reason the reasoning behind it too is like he's obviously so comfortable about it at the end like when he's dying and so on and and the kind of idea is perhaps he would be replaced by a more a popular figure can rally against the empire stuff like that or something like that you know whereas he must have just been sick of living because couldn't you just couldn't you just have the decoy be assassinated like the um you know the the one who isn't you but everyone thinks is you have him be killed and then you just go off the grid instead instead he's like oh no no i actually need to die kill me please like why not just fake your death i mean that's true because he kind of did like in the dark brotherhood quest line like you're saying there was the double like there is the emperor that you you use the it's the jaron root right as you're mixing the the cauldron and you're telling her to add a septum and all these little meme things that scott absolutely loved all of that kind of stuff and effort to have the only the double it's kind of like well it's kind of like there's a lot of i feel like a like a a good guy empire sort of like film over it when you look at this theory and stuff because it's also like the assumption it's like i don't know like look at the empire's past and so on incredibly bureaucratic lots of infighting problems all that kind of stuff is it really that unbelievable like what's the most common sense likely thing is that oh he's an unpopular um emperor the empire's crumbling under his things he lost hammerfell he signed the white con call gold concorded there are like plenty reasons as to why people would want him dead or find him very unappealing as um as the emperor um and easily you can imagine the elder council like scheming to to get rid of him because that's kind of the implication it's like you know you're paying with an elder council um amulet that's what you're um mm-hmm and the mate didn't really seem like uh like he was like in on something where it was very much like the emperor ordered this like it you know it felt like it genuinely came from you know i mean it would probably be like yeah of course proxies to if they were trying to do it but i i still feel like i feel like at the end like you guys were saying too it's like why put all this effort to avoid the first assassination and then like you know what i mean like to play devil's advocate it could be because commit the commander was trying to catch you and the emperor didn't really have a choice like if if the commander came to the emperor and was like you're gonna get assassinated i think we should put a double in you can't have the emperor you know who's trying to pretend to be not assassinated himself if he was be like oh no no no i want to be there don't use the double make me a target you know so then maybe it got dragged out longer than he expected the way at least i interpret it's like it's cool and you can call the discussion i just feel like it's far more likely that it was just a legit assassination at the end of his thing he's kind of got like that acceptance of fate and has that conversation with you and also he orders you to kill he asks of you to kill the person who did it which already seems like a kind of like bitter revenge kind of thing and what the other theory will say is like oh well it was to like you know tie the loose ends and stuff like that what you've got a chance to tie the loose ends that this dark brother or assassin to kill you might do you a favor and kill someone it seems a very like oh here's a gesture i'll do it do you know a dying old man give him his last thing so i i don't really buy it but yeah shut down top five worst theories no it's it isn't it's a cool theory but i you have to do a lot of work to you know takes a bit of mental gymnastics yeah a bit like the other one um okay let's have a look a lot of the comments are talking about the aldo in theory that we were going through like kind of adding to it the whole theory about um the dragonborn being sent to defeat outerwind so that the world can end eventually because aldon wasn't you know sticking to his duties thanks for all this insight after i'm already like making my video all about it but but um apparently the dragon at um kinds grove actually says in the dragon language has the time come to resurrect our ancient realm and aldo and says yes my champion so you know yeah extra yeah um here's another one from kevin it's a three-part theory regarding uh malaca actually so it says here's my theory malacath's code outlines the way to mantle malacath per the code the sun must kill a father in order to take his place as chief malacath is known as the orc father so if an orc malacath's children became powerful enough to challenge him they could manage malacath and be the new morlock here's the part two malacath wants to be mantled when trinimac was eaten and defeated by boethiah his followers changed to being the orcs as well the reason malacath is so devoted to his orcs is not out of selfishness or love did it mean selflessness or whatever anyway but out of guilt as it was his failure that led to their transformation for that reason he gave the orcs malacath's code not just to help them survive in a world that hates them but to purposefully get them strong enough to overcome and defeat him freeing his soul from being malacath and allowing allowing a new stronger malacath to lead the orcs to glory last part and a bit wild boethiah used to have the mantle of the pariah daedra along with his other spheres he was alone in praising lor khan and despised trinimac's popularity and sought to undo him by passing the pariah mantle to him when boethiah and trinimac fought one version states that trinimac almost made the finishing blow before he was stopped what if boethiah wanted trinimac to defeat him so that the pariah mantle would be passed on with trinimac having mantled it boethiah turned the tables with mephala's help to further humiliate him it was then this precedent that set malacath's mantle to having to be fought over in one thus making malacath set his code to get the orcs to be strong enough to defeat him and claim the prime minister for themselves that that is an interesting theory there's a little bit of corn and beans action going on with uh [Laughter] and it came out with trinimac and that's an interesting nugget of information yeah i thought you were coming out with like oh like like a similar to like oh the meat and potatoes of the garden or something like that like the corn and beans we've explored fury on the channel before about bowiefield being essentially in love with law khan and and everything boefia does is for lorkhan and that's why boeif yahishi created the kaima people kind of as a love letter to law khan so the idea that he would resent being the kind of pariah um i'm not sure yeah that takes you thinking about something else to throw in there is he the only he says he was alone in praising law khan is that true i i don't know if there are other daedra i feel like it's it's maybe it's the only one that's explicitly said at the moment but i don't know if that's necessarily like the natural conclusion at least i'd say at least among the of all the gods who were kind of having an influence on the people of somerset at the time maybe it was all very annoying you know everyone followed those and then boeifee comes in with that attitude and that's how the changed ones come along but i don't i wouldn't say that law khan was completely out of favor um just kind of in the whole universe at the time or in the mortal realm yeah it is a cool it is a cool theory though like as at least the first two parts that that sound the malacath wants to be mantled essentially yeah yeah basically that's why the orc code yeah and to free him and and things like that from that state i mean it's not like obviously it's not rock solid with tons of evidence but i mean it's a theory right like that means things are super backed up in a surrogate i was gonna say if malacath is mantled would that free trinimac to become trinimac again well aspect would be taken away because i guess that's that point of contention because it's that same kind of thing that like technically with sheol gorath was just a warped version of jiggalag until shergoth was mantled and then they became separate entities so the same principle i guess is if you go with trinimac literally was corrupted and they aren't there's no separation of deities um but then if someone mantles malacath which she wants or whatever and then the trinimac would be um but they are separate right like i mean you can kind of revere trinimac and get some kind of metaphysical but then again i like this from that right yeah or you could argue yeah it is still a corrupted version of malacath and you just get a different kind of feedback from said he's baiting baiting orcs to man all the corruption and essentially just take that off him and create a new god from it because it doesn't mean you've got for example you can go to like i think someone pointed this out and it's true um but like you can go to a shrine of a saint and you can get a blessing doesn't make them a god you know what i mean like just the the sort of presence of like whatever magical or metaphysical like kind of blessing or existence or stuff that exists doesn't necessarily mean that oh that like saint has become you know a god literally in itself or it could be for example you could think of it as like an echo of what used to be or something and that's maybe they're trying to reconstruct but like it's hard with mythology like to take it literally or not and i think the one thing is too it sort of there is that orsinium dynamic where you have like people wanting malacath versus trinimac and trinimac isn't it as an attempt to sort of and i i think the other slight problem i have with the fury which is just my personal preference is that i think the corruption that happened to trinimac to turn trinimac into malacath became so fundamental to the identity of that god to the point where i wouldn't say that malacath is ashamed of those aspects because malacath is still very much like trinimac being the kind of the father figure the paragon of strength and unity and things like that but now it's more condensed to the people who stuck by him so i almost feel like from what i know of malacath malakai wouldn't be rushing to get rid of that identity probably enjoys being the god of the orcs because say say that it does work and trinimac does become separate from malacath what does trinimac really have to to be a god of anymore like p they abandoned him it's also like too early just real quick i was just kind of like having a little giggle over here because i was just thinking that you're getting defensive again like the russian thing and you're like the malacath that i know he would never do that he would never abandon i think we've got to argue both sides no no i i definitely but yeah well with that uh the um also like malacath even though he got you know trinimac becoming malachite became shame but like you're sort of saying it's like i i see more of his thing as as like bitterness and like scorning others and stuff but it doesn't necessarily mean like i would want you know what i mean revert or anything like that yeah would malacath really be desperate to return to the good books of the elves who neglected him once he was covered in doo-doo you know i doubt it he's yeah he's found his own identity that's my take anyway hmm yeah that's interesting um oh here's that comment that i was talking about before the podcast started how many roads must a man walk down before he may call some trees to dwell i like that by the way the the theory on mike the liar had a second theory in the comment which is basically that the night i've people probably have heard this one but that the night of tears was a lie created by the morons to basically justify their attack on the snow elves and to be seen as heroes um but it's funny it's funny the the the theory that the idea that backs that up is basically that and i mean it's not the best but the idea is that there are no snow elves to talk about it and uh gullible basically says that oh we were kind of always at war like these two sides we always had issues and then the night of tears idea in that story is like oh we were at peace and we were living together and things were cool but then the snow was betrayed us so we attacked and killed them but then if gallabor is saying oh no we kind of like will like you know had issues all the time it makes it just as he was credit to that unless he was talking about like the period that kind of like after the night of tears because there was a whole like period of time where the snow was getting wiped yeah it just it just depends like how over it with that theory and this is like what kind of like bothers me a bit in everything is that sort of people don't come at the history of tamriel from a sort of more neutral standpoint of because they're always trying to orchestrate that these are the good guys and these are the bad guys so like the atmorans must be lying about the night of tears to to do this or something like that rather than seeing something like a chain of consequence you can easily see how the snow elves might feel threatened especially if there's a lot of magnus snare and all of that so is it's like is it really that inconceivable that an elven race might do that to prevent something but they fail to eliminate completely and then there's going to be retribution like look at all of real world history everything there are cycles of retribution and back and forth whereas like if you're trying to constantly go back and look for like this is the good guy the bad guy the fact is you're deluded hey because hey everyone's just a game theory bro yeah but it is it is a good thing to to focus on and when you're like you know trying to critically think about like the off the shoulder there's a lot of more and cope around 100 percent the same as on the other side like obviously with that and they're like oh they're more the evil snow elves they did it completely unprovoked and yadda yadda is like you don't know the minutia of it but then you know and it's obviously not nervous you know we we knew we do know bits and pieces of snow elven um worship and religion but we we do know that magnus is more of a god of elves than men and uh you know on top of all the worrying about the the power of these these nords growing with the eye of magnus you can imagine if an elven race learns that such an artifact that you could you could associate with an elven god has been found on their land they're going to be much more covetous of it and and want to be in control of it um whether or not that justifies what happens at the night of tears obviously is another matter that's the other thing is when people reduce it just to the racial or cultural bounds but it's like you will find dissent amongst them like i actually when i wrote this the i don't think it's i've got what i call it the fall of the snow prince or something like that just a little like creative piece or something but there it can be the idea that some snow elves or some people within any culture might disagree with whatever political thing is going ahead and they so you can have different views like but whoever like ultimate you know it's different because it's monarchies like but has the most votes or whatever that that gets through like it's not exactly everyone agreeing with that so they might have been at morons they're like no no no we don't want to like go to war or snowballs and so on but then others do when then they prevail and they can rile up enough or so it's looking at it from like rather than there's there's this giant evil monolith of atmorans or in the reverse a giant evil monolith of snow elves and they did this and that and and you know what i mean yeah i i agree it's kind of the problem with a lot of conspiracies even um in real life is that they assume a very high level of unity and coordination and like basically like all the different moving parts are one big part when it's like there's a lot of like there are so many like thousands of factors and different people with slightly varying motives and like different views and you know it's it's it's in a way it's quite hard to comprehend like a lot of what's happening and why honestly i feel like if if there really were some like super like big like puppeteer masters and so on things would be going more their way i guess in in certain things like and their assumption is oh you know there's disunity and all this so it is going their way or is it actually just there are so many variables and patterns of things and stuff that can't be predicted but then it you know take everyone's got their own sort of self-interest then their group interest or broader interest yeah i know i'm not even like anti-cons like you know conspiracy theories are interesting and you know sometimes they turn out to be true it's just like a lot of the time it's your basic like i want money or like you know like and the same would happen in the elder scrolls universe it could just be like you know this one leader is basically like oh i i want you know to achieve xyz so let's do it yeah it's and it's weird and then the same sort of like it's tied into the culture biases and something we're talking about before it's that weird idea like for example in the empire oh the empire can't be the emperor can't be a dumb ass he must have intentionally wanted to get assassinated like you know it's a master plan you know and it's like they do that kind of thing they give so much uneven credit to things where me i like discredit others and it's sort of but i mean it's fun right like that's the whole point of the theories yeah plus this you know this happens when a community so in love with a series is starved of content for so long uh we we end up doing this you know we all do it oh yeah yeah of course no i 100 agree with my sentiment though i think my favorite thing though is when you get a convince a convincing theory that has just enough parts where it's believable like your theory on the the moorings um being dragons and all that it's kind of like you can watch that video and believe believe it like by the end of it you're like that could be true and it's backed up to enough where you can't be like oh that's that's stupid or something like that do you know what i think it is too it's actually looking at all of the history mythology all that kind of stuff without 100 certainty so it's like even if we're like oh this idea is really cool or i even like this sort of theory or i think it's really cool there's still that long acknowledgement that it's like oh it could be wrong like it it doesn't necessarily is the case it's like you know you can make theories and and you know certain judgments and stuff that are like 70 percent likely like if you're to make it in a better odds or whatever but but um you can still subjectively sort of like yeah i want that to be the thing or i want like this or i think that's a bad direction or you know what i mean like you know i've had to think a lot about this because my like long um uh relationship with the ebonheart pact and i'm like over time just kind of it's like it is what it is i accept it it just is the thing i don't think it's a good decision i don't think it makes sense but you know wait so you're against it then huh yeah you're not a fan of the ebonheart i'm not i'm not a fan of it but i accept it if that makes sense you know because there's all kinds of changes and things also you've gone through all the stages you know like yeah denial yeah yeah 100 exactly uh danby fan theory scott drew and michael are the anticipations of todd howard christopher weaver and michael kirkbride and are the new tribunal pulling the strings of the elder scrolls series i mean i wish we were pulling the strings if we were pulling the strings we'd have it out this year our best hope is like just pushing theories and like memetically sort of like you know putting things out there and stuff and then people who are working at bethesda like oh there's actually the community's all these really cool ideas or whatever or something like that and then like pushing those forward you know but that's the best we can do i think um there is that comment about the orc dwarf uh thing i don't know if you want to get into that or not uh okay so actually this is actually um it's just an insight that i feel like it's just in it so for a while i've had like we and we've talked about it ages ago the whole like dwemer equal orc kind of theory or that they're related some sort of intriguing way or something and i like there's a lot of coincidences but i'm like i was never enough but i think this also just helped me like sort of i am writing the script so i'm actually going to do it and i don't know if he'll even if it's even convincing by the end but there's just so much like interesting evidence to sort of like tie together and talk about but zack says every time malacath and volondrung are brought up people seem to think it's a coincidence random that the orc god king clay's claim over an artifact that is dwemer in origin i think it's actually quite fitting if you look at the story of the rorken clan the creators of voluntrong the rook and clan had left morrowind for hammerfell in a self-imposed exile since they refused to join the first council with akyma in doing so they became the outcast pariahs of the dwemer people voluntrong is pretty integral to the story of the rock and clan and could be seen as a symbol for these organ outcasts once the dwarves disappeared the hammer was put into malacca's position possession since he had the strongest association with his fear giving him a metaphysical dibs to the artifact also since daedric artifacts are supposed to embody uh the sphere of its respective daedric prince i doubt the other 15 princes would have wanted it um anyway um but yeah it is a sort of like um that's another interesting extra thing to think about the importance of volunteering and while it's not the previous references are more so about like uh dumac and i think it's like a cross he basically dwarf orc is the thing it's dumbac dwarf or do malacath the full-length name but it's it's in two different cultures and i think it's khajiit and nord he gets called to malakath and then and across the dunmer as well in all three of them he gets called um dwarf orc as well so it's a very prominent title and i don't know it's not just like oh just a little bit of nordic flavor or a little bit of this you know and there's interesting you'll just i guess i have to wait for like the actual video spiel on that but i do like the idea that it does help make a bit more sense for the volundrong acquisition there is a comment from judith creamer who who says aldon choosing domination over destruction was akatosh's plan all along as the chief deity of multiple pantheons akatosh is arguably the most powerful god in order to keep his place at the top he purposely fails to end the kalpa for fear it will reduce his power this would explain why he intervenes in oblivion to thwart mehrunes dagon and in skyrim by sending a dragonborn to stop aldo and he wants to keep his place at the top but has to put in a token effort to end the calpers so he sabotages himself to keep it going i don't know if i fully agree with that if if the idea is that alderweireld kind of isn't there to end the world like he wouldn't really be i mean like i get the um i get the premise and also in oblivion it's i don't know if it's akatosh intervening as much as it's just like the amulet has his power kind of like in it and martin uses it like there's a few awkward things about that yeah because like obviously we have the whole dynamic of how much power do the aedra actually have after committing their power to creating the mundus and then if you've got this idea that akatosh can get involved which we kind of have seen can happen why would alduin exist in the first place if akatosh doesn't want the world to end unless you've got the idea that alduin kind of ascended to the role of being the firstborn of akatosh and the world eater like unbeknownst to akatosh i guess it does align with the insane god theory though that like he doesn't know what he wants and there's multiple aspects like yeah one thing to consider um two is that like you know there's the kind of idea that um as each cap will go by there might be a sort of like you know the dawn wall kind of each time establishes kind of like who's on top or who's prevalent this time around kind of thing like you know so some girls might be vying for more strength of power so on but if you stop envisioning akatosh um at this oversoul idea and instead actually envision that perhaps you've got ideas of like alduin was like the akatosh time god feeling of the last one or say it was auriel or something instead but then they're kind of like on the cycle they're kind of all still existing at the same time but like maybe that their interests go along differently like akatosh might feel like he's not going to be dominant in the next kelp or the dominant part of it so he doesn't want to maybe that's why he helped aldo doing do his thing or whatever in an effort to prolong it or something so that auriel doesn't become the emergent sort of dominant part of of the next cycle or something you know what i'm kind of getting at right so you're kind of getting more at the idea that akatosh as like a an aspect of the akka oversoul would be would want to maintain power over other aspects of itself rather than akatosh slash oriole versus lorcan like not wanting law khan to to win that kind of dawn war yeah kind of like because i mean also if you look it depends like if there is that idea that akatosh has some lorcanic elements like you know empire of man like the depiction of the dragon and the man and you've talked about that before and so on like you know look i'm the real god of the empire kind of stuff yeah if akatosh really is like if you if you envisioned it more so as like oh when alicia is conceiving it it is a synthesis of auriel and shaw kind of and putting them together you get this new being but this new being doesn't exist shaw's whole act thing or or their pantheon had like alduin as the end or oriole is the beginning but this new synthesis combination kind of leads to a middle but the middle doesn't exist if there's a beginning or an end so it kind of has to prolong itself and actually yeah that does kind of perfectly explain the contradictions between akatosh simultaneously seeming to want to prolong the world and end it it's like it's like the two heads of that dragon the dragon face and the man face that you see um in depictions of akatosh a warring over whether to end it or whether to keep it going so akatosh like auriel would absolutely want it to end um and shaw would absolutely want it to continue but when you've got both of them as akatosh it's like yeah this kind of insanity this duo of wanting to end and maintain it simultaneously yeah yeah and it's like it's too also it's like if you also think too of like even if you were just to keep it to the end cities themselves instead of you know that whole akatosh insane thing if you do just have like you know full like um did kind of thing if you have the akatosh might be wary and kind of have knowledge of the other personalities and not want it to happen or something like that they don't want auriel to you know you know like have you seen the movie split when it's like you know who wants to come into the light or whatever but they he he knows who oriole is he doesn't want oriole to come in well or alduan to come into the light and end the world so then because otherwise i don't know he's gonna wait he's turned around or an aura or whatever it's also this is so abstract to talk about anyway because we don't understand calpers or anything and by the way like as much as it's a compelling theory the whole akatosh is insane like the whole akka oversoul uh as much as people like to talk about it in the community and like forums and stuff as if it is like in disputed canon it's not there is the kundalini as far as the concern the only real canon sort of vibe is that there is a time god and there is auriels as the elven interpretation alduin as nords and akatosh as this sort of synthesis um and then there's obviously alcohol and other things but they're all interpretations of a time god rather than this sort you'll also find that no one ever talks about or like rupture like tall papa when they're talking about the akka oversoul it's really just these three things these three interpretations only because they neatly fit into their it's just it's a small thing you said but like i said it's like the canon vibe it's like we're only in elder scrolls can canon kind of be a vibe so yeah is that canon is that not canon oh i'm not sure if i'm vibing it [Laughter] all right next theory boys i don't have one i need you to get one can you make my lunch mom um okay here's a it is another one by ej dubs um theory chain hall is the de facto center of power for house lalu in the fourth era count indaras had la lu ties and we see in indaris leading forces in the novel's um circo 44th era um this puts them in a strong position to retake control of morrowind should the empire regain strength i i i do at least at the very part of that i agree that there's a good chance and i would imagine and this is kind of what i actually used as part of um for the death wave waver build the back story was that jayden hall had grown almost into like a slum this huge influx of lalu with people abandoning all the fourth tribunal and then also red mountain argon invasion afterwards and over time i called it like a big slum like on the side of chatting hall called new nasus or something like growing out but i think that and especially same thing there was those halal ties and so on and because that's really what lalu are at the time of the third era they are just like essentially imperialized dunma so that little middle ground there it is probably a safe place for them to um grow you know within the bounds of the empire and they can probably prosper and as they could and also become a dominant demographic like i would imagine just naturally if you look at all border cities like windhelm rifton and jane hall should have a decent thunder influx yeah that makes sense but yeah central powerful house slyly but they probably could it could be it could be you know a place of power for sure or like a place of whatever i mean i i'd if you guys see it in the comments um take over from me because i don't have it open so i don't want to butcher it but i did see a theory that was essentially saying the heart of lorkhan is the reason that morrowind is the most alien of the provinces okay yeah i saw that one so i mean like my first reaction to that was i mean obviously there are there are alien elements described in all over tamriel and away from tamriel like you know look at akavir or even um look at somerset the way somerset was described is very alien so in a way it does just come down to the natural flora and um architectural style of the races but then there is also the argument to be made that um i think we've talked about this before that because the heart of law khan kind of it's essentially the heart of the world and the lava that the magma that flows under the under red mountain and in the subterranean depths of tamriel is kind of like the flowing blood of the dead god so the idea that where the closer you are to that the more kind of like padamike power exists um is possible the only thing there is just kind of things like you know like black marsh looks far more alien than skyrim but like in proximity to the hard look on like skyrim and i think it ultimately comes down to is anything around this is going to be it's it's cope law to to cope with design changes because as morrowind sort of the era of morrowind the rest of elder scroll like was envisioned a much more you know alien and weird like even if they were just like to be to be fair i mean i mean this is kind of obvious but uh you know being like the comment says like as well like being the personification of chaos it would make sense that land made by him would be more alien and chaotic but i do think they're different like what like alien is is from a reference point right like just because morrowind has a giant bug that you can ride doesn't mean that that's like chaos it's just like they ride giant bugs it's weird to you if you're not from there yeah but if you're born there it'd be quite orderly you know i get on my silk strider and i go around and i'm here at this time or whatever you know what i mean like it's not inherently like chaotic and crazy just because it is like to us like giant mushrooms like okay it's just they're you know part of their yeah but i guess i guess chaotic too like if you want to look at chaotic there's plenty of provinces that have seen heaps of chaos yeah but i guess i guess what i'm just saying is because of the way that everything's envisioned now everywhere else in tamriel ultimately looks more like europe or asia but like like you said black marsh is pretty alien looking yeah they have i'm sure the coral kingdoms of thrass and all that are all very like strange and and there's creatures and flavor like whale wires and somerset or something like they throw in their flavor they have that's why at the end of the day it's not really like it's it's coped for that they design changes and if you're talking about it being inhospitable as well obviously being the only active volcano in tamriel the the craglands um is gonna make sense just purely on that biome you know so yeah like unique feature that creatures and flora will adapt to because nowhere else has ash storms and yeah exactly yeah i like i just want to shout out this comment by gabe ziller that time stamps 2435 on the last year episode shout out shout out to my man being the nice guy and creating an interdimensional portal to scratch scott's ear i actually watched it you like go like this and then like scott's hand comes in oh really i didn't even notice that no it's good go check that out shut up i reckon we could probably finish off on another one um because this is a fairly long one that depends how long we talk about this but here's a crazy theory from sterling arnold um that he's come to accept his cannon by the way so the celtic cycle is a lie according to red guard mythology rupture created sep from the remnants of dead world skins and sep created the mundus in his own image an undead god creating an undead world it's important to understand that sepp created his skin ball separate from satakal no longer beholden to its hunger uh it is why the red guards no longer have access to the walkabout as it is it was a technique created to traverse satax scales in my understanding then law khan ore had always intended for the mundus to be the final calper it's the reason the gods are so adamant on continuing the current cycle and why alduin refuses his original role there is no next world to replace this one once it's gone i also believe that mundus's creation and the breaking of the twelve worlds are the same event as it is referring to the breaking of the cycle as well as the coalescence of the remains of the worlds that came before the origin of the races may also be a result of them being saved from this breaking such as kind breathing the nords onto the throat of the world or the uldima losing aldmeris and finding themselves on the somerset isles perhaps this time is also perceived as the ooze by the wood elves actually that's a pretty cool fear yeah there's a lot to go into there i mean just as a small note we obviously when it comes to something like calper it's really hard to actually have any evidence proper evidence that a calper exists because the whole idea is that it resets the cycle but obviously we do have plenty of evidence of worlds being unmade or destroyed or coming to an end without necessarily a new cycle beginning whereas we don't have much evidence of the cycle renewing you know say so say you've got the 12 worlds of creation from the um the annual ad that are all destroyed and then you've got say league which is unmade by that's how it's insinuated anyways it's unmade by mehrunes dagon and the slaves um but yeah evidence for the cycle what if you imagined the 12 worlds as previous cycles or something like that just just stick with cycles for a moment but then there is like you know there's the league there's zeldmarus there's the sort of nords that were like maybe saved from their world and like like i said breathed onto skyrim at that time later and there's all these different worlds and maybe the history from and something um and all of those you know they eventually are remnants of previous apocalypses that have happened you know when the celtic cycle starts they break the cycle and now all of the you know refugees so to say of that or leftovers have been found there so that's why also like there's this sort of mythical aldmeris which doesn't necessarily exist as a place but they just cast onto these ships and they they found their place or nords breathed onto the world or you know i mean a history surviving well the argonians are like you know little computers for the his like little robots for the hist right so they just survived this breaking and stuff it's interesting to to think of that because i when i heard 12 worlds in the annual i always think of it as like just a creation story about all these different worlds and smashed together but actually envisioning them as a world as is in a celtic cycle uh so the next one's known well well the final ones known and that's i that's what this one is getting well that's it yeah but if there was a new cycle it could have like you know some story in it about this world called nern just interesting yeah i think i feel like if there was significance to the to these 12 worlds there would be the number 12 wouldn't just be a coincidence there would be an explanation for each one but i feel like it was kind of just an offhanded creation story it's interesting what do you think are the wood elf things too because like you know the wood elf like the ooze like you know how we're finding a lot of new eso stuff is there's lots of contradictions about people's place in the world and when they came and stuff like that and it doesn't all fit in nicely with this old elven story but like yeah it's kind of weird this is how we got to like you taught the elder scrolls and stuff it's kind of hard because a lot of theories and stuff are built out of trying to literalize comparative mythology like you're trying to get all of the creation stories to make sense and line up because there is magic and there are like real evidence for like godly beings but then there's also interpretation all that stuff backwards so it's it's a weird space of like you know yeah it's kind of hard to to figure out it's interesting i mean i i don't know what do you guys think like i mean when i think of the red guard story of having the kind of the dead world skins that he's rolled into a ball to create mundus it as as you were kind of getting at is it's it's more of a metaphor for him kind of taking ideas the ideas of creation when all these spirits are finding their place and formulating the idea for this realm as opposed to it literally being the kind of salvation of these dead worlds being brought together it's it's it's hard to it's hard to justify that because i feel like there isn't a whole lot to support it but at the same time this is the first time i'm hearing this so what if though when the world ends these this kind of skin ball just unravels and he can just like put it together into a new world like why does it have to be like the i mean that's kind of the idea that we were getting at with league and adjacent places is that there were other attempts by law khan to make a uh this kind of experimental realm the mortal realm and sometimes it fails you know in in this instance it failed with league um i do find it interesting though the whole like this whole skin ball thing that building separate because remember it's the idea that the the kind of idea there i guess latoya mundus is that there is that calpic thing the cytokine eating itself so that would be one cycle in itself everything gets destroyed unless you learn the walk about and those gods could move between them it's only the highest beings but then at the skin ball as an alternative or an easier way to do it but like creating it out of the detritus or whatnot making that place it's like envisioning that as only a thing like mundus as only a now thing like previous calpers was some other kind of incomprehensible world or cycle or whatever adjacent place whatever but now is the final time it's like oh this is the attempt to actually stop it maybe like this is lorkhan sort of put his foot down that enough i mean it could be it could be i i because this is the thing too and it's like sometimes to keep you on your toes but always like challenge some of the more fundamental um theories and and like cherish theories and stuff that exist around and so on the same as you can go like oh there's the towers theory but then walk it back and stuff because you can criticize that for being oh it's perfectly convenient isn't there's like the you know the the 16 spokes or and the innate spaces and all of that kind of stuff i mean this perfectly aligned wheel it's a very nice neat cosmology or like thing but there's so many examples of things that exist outside of it yeah and i mean i feel like the the idea isn't it's not mutually exclusive the idea that it could be a cycle but also kind of a fresh start because that's the whole idea of this walkabout is that the powerful deities the gods can like learn to step aside and and and dodge the destruction which would make sense when you've got the new dawn era where all the gods come in first and then you've got i guess you kind of pulled the ideas that you pull the souls from the afterlife from the dreaming sleeve and they populate this new realm so in a way it is a new cycle but it is also something completely new so they're kind it's kind of synonymous in a sense yeah yeah i'm ready for the next one you're ready for the next one says theory i'm quite proud of molag bao's driving emotion is insecurity and fear that he gained when mehrunes dagon brought him low in league possibly tormenting him as well molag bao is an archetype of the abuser whose abuse creates more abuses in brackets vampires this type of personality very typically comes from the contextual contextual nexus of entitlement and insecurity when one feels deep down that they're not as strong as they should be but also feeling that they can resolve this problem by demonstrating their power over others molag bao is defined by all the behaviors bullies and spousal abusers do a great example is when you best him he actually backs down i think he's afraid of anyone who can actually stand up to him from the last time he was humbled by an upstart in the 36 lessons of effect we learned that molag bao wants love and feels deeply unloved vivec then proceeds to seduce molag bao only to insult and casts away bow after vivec reveals he was only trying to steal the secret of kim it makes me wonder if his theorized relationship with azura in league had a similar vibe when bao was assaulted by dagon azor left him because she is self-centered bao may have become the king of rape because he has never had a healthy consensus consensual relationship i think that's actually a pretty based theory yeah like well it's less theory more analysis right yeah exactly yeah it kind of like demonstrating why he is the way he is because he is a fairly one note prince if you just boil it down to what he represents so as a way of kind of analyzing and justifying or not justifying but explaining the way he is it all of that makes sense to me yeah i feel like he's commented this and it's going to be very underwhelming because i'm like yeah actually it's a really good insider that's about it i don't know what i could like add to that really or anything but i think that's a pretty comprehensive sort of i feel like i could make a video on that and like dive into it deeper give credit of course yeah i always like when you can get like more insight or different ways of thinking about something that you know you could look at my balance go oh he's the devil he's the one-dimensional domination prince you know yeah it's interesting to sort of because you can you can kind of apply some of that logic to just about every prince in that like they they brag about the fact that they didn't invest their power in creating the mortal realm but they're constantly trying to seek validation from the inhabitants of this realm as if they do feel like they were left out of of what is essentially kind of described as being the center of the universe the mundus is kind of the culmination point the arena the most important part and these daedra are more powerful they can get involved but at the end of the day they're not the creators they're they're bystanders so they are kind of desperately in need of attention and that kind of ties into what was said about molag bao wanting to be loved hmm it almost makes you feel sorry for him only a little bit yeah he can't really justify all this stuff yeah all right um any more hot theories i guess i guess to the future to say as well guys is um absolutely go in for analysis like i guess they're all fully theory analysis kind of stuff like it's a theoretical analysis or something but yeah those two feel free to drop those and and let's let's be very clear too put your theories below this podcast episode and if we don't say it or didn't say it just write it again if you think it's really good and back it up harder yeah do you want do you want me to like i can drop one more theory all right one one more that's another theory it's a it's theory slash take it all kind of blends but the morag tong are finished they were first created as a way of preserving the balance of power between the great houses by the time of skyrim harlow has stripped them of their status dress and televani have been decimated by the argonians and indirects lost most of their power after the fallen tribunal rhetoric meanwhile not only stayed strong but amassed more power and influence by pushing back the argonians making them the dominant power in morrowind then in the dragonborn dlc halalu hires the murak tong to assassinate a rhetoric counsellor and rhetoric responds by killing the assassin and the people who hired them despite the fact what lalu did was completely like legal i guess all this stuff's kind of changed without tribunal and power structures or before and literally what the morak tongue is supposed to be used for rhetorian even say that the tonga pure evil and disgusting should never be used despite red around being the ones who believe the most in local dunmer traditions they're only saying this now because they're the ones in control and the tonga potential threat now they have enough power to sway um to or convince the rest of the gunman to abandon them um i can't help but draw comparisons between this and the tribunal and azura but i mean i 100 percent kind of really like tong's days are like far behind them like i kind of almost like it's like a nice conclusion i guess that they have kind of just become like like raven rock kind of says like filthy assassins that just do stuff for money and also why that thieves guild guy like left and stuff like that the idea that there is a downfall of it because there's these vague ideas oh we'll reband someday but but with rhetorian you may as well look the way at least i feel about it when looking at um house morrowind in general is that house radaran is functionally like the monarchy like an autocracy it's like is the power i think a lot of the other houses feel very small new or something like you know what i mean like it's very dominant yeah i mean it makes sense you know we've we have a group like the dark brotherhood where it's a bit more surface level it's kind of just assassination for the sake of it obviously i'm i'm i'm oversimplifying that but the more egg tongue as we've discussed a lot it is it's much more integral to dunmer society in that yeah it's like my father's idea of using political assassination as i said politically like it's important to maintain a balance but yeah there is no balance anymore and when you have one dominant class or one dominant house yeah it doesn't really have a purpose so that does make total sense yeah and even though i think even the big ideas of councils and houses and stuff a lot of this also existed under tribunal stuff like a lot of the ways they're like the dunmer's fate is to revert to a more of a akaima sort of tradition you know what i mean like an old or like a different religion because like under the tribunal things are different for a long time but i guess i guess the whole mephala morag tong that kind of tradition but yeah anyways okay i guess that brings us to the end okay well social media links are in the description as is a link to our patreon if you want to help support this podcast and the channel in general it's been scott michael and drew and we look forward to nerding out with you again very soon

Channel: FudgeMuppet

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Id: 5IluGVDAdGc

Length: 58min 57sec (3537 seconds)

Published: Sun Mar 13 2022