Elder Scrolls Fan Theories | The Elder Scrolls Podcast #86

[Music] what is up ladies and gentlemen welcome back to fudge map but this is the elder scrolls podcast i'm scott here with michael and drew as always and on youtube recently on the community post we asked you guys to send all of your favorite fan theories and whatever wild theories you have and today we're gonna go through them and assess them see what we think maybe maybe there's something in your brilliant minds or or maybe we've got some poorly thought out takes we'll see but we're gonna just go through the list and have a look i imagine it's gonna get a bit strange yeah like we're inevitably gonna have those like meme ones i think i saw something like something about nazim or something all right i guess the first one to read top comment uh from john and it says everyone in skyrim is wrong about alduin whether you're talking to random guards yarls the grey beards parthenax or ancient nords in sovengaard everyone thinks that aldon has returned to fulfill his role as the world eater but we know from reading the elder scroll at the throat of the world that he hasn't actually returned at all but just traveled forward in time several thousand years from his perspective he probably went straight from fighting the ancient nords to torching helgen unless we believe that his nature and goals have fundamentally changed over the course of a few minutes we really have no reason to think that walking dead dragons the waking dead dragons killing the dragonborn or devouring the souls of the dead serves any purpose except to increase his own power and resurrect his empire audum would continue to reject his duty indefinitely without divine intervention tying him with the fact that auto and soul isn't absorbed at the end of the game it's likely that the true purpose of the last dragonborn was simply to destroy the corrupted slash dominating version so that he can be recreated we were never sent to prevent or even delay the end of the world we were sent to make it possible well i i guess if you're like we've sort of talked about before like the idea that that akatosh as the sort of like entities interested in like prolonging the kind of existence of the world and if you kind of with a simple sort of idea it could be more complex than this but the idea that you have like the last dragonborn it's some form of blessing from akatosh or something that could bestow the like dragonblade it could make sense that this is like course correction for like one of like akatosh's ultra personalities or like firstborn like but we i've talked about this before but like alduin being the firstborn of akatosh in mythology and stuff like firstborn can also be like symbolic it's not like literal all the time like it can be like a sort of first incarnation or something like that you know what i mean and if you were to think about it chronologically in development of the gods um or i don't know but like alduin at the very least as a dragon sort of concept is the oldest sort of understanding of any sort of dragon god until later akatosh is envisioned with alicia's um thing later on because auriel originally didn't have any draconic elements it was it was an elf just like everyone else so maybe um he's a right that's maybe that's what's meant by firstborn but anyway regardless maybe it is just a sort of like akatosh's course correction of like alduin you know like you're saying going off trying to corrupt to dominate and so on but alduin wasn't going to eat the world but yeah i mean the logic is sound um with the idea of him just being sent forward in time and nothing really changing in that time um so i kind of buy into this i'm trying to think if there's any specific dialogue with alduin where he's where he's giving away his motives whether it's more actively trying to destroy the world or just dominate again but either way it's obviously a threat to stop because even that you could kind of envision him as sort of like when he comes back and even when he's like defeated and then he goes to sovengaard and he start like wants to consume all the souls there or so on but it doesn't necessarily mean like the consumption's not necessarily like as in in the world i'm going to do my duty all of a sudden it's just he's just kind of like the domination of um mundus or tamriel or whatever looks very much the same as him completing his duty but like yeah do you know what i mean like it's very hard yeah it's not really alduin who's got the you know he's not really responsible for deciding the fate of the universe his role he was created to fulfill that role which to him there's no difference between domination and the kind of metaphysical idea of restarting the cycle because you know the set yeah they're essentially the same thing in his draconic mind i think i think there's there's definitely good it's almost like heart like i guess this is like it is a theory but i feel like a lot of it could be implied yeah i mean it's a good it's yeah he doesn't actually have because it's funny you brought up dialogue so i've been searching through he's he doesn't really say well say too much aside from being called the worldy to by everyone else there isn't a whole lot specifying that he's out here eating worms he says my power has waxed well yours has waned he says my belly is full of the souls of your fellow mortals doverkin die now and await your fate in sovengarde um well he doesn't exactly the same same kind of thing he would be saying during the initial dragon war you know just dominating the humans and the others do not even know how tong do you such arrogance dude do the other thing for yourself the name of dover the other thing to consider too is that it's like his whole perception the world leader how like you know mythology can be born of like historical events but like the dragon wars happened something like five oh i don't know at least over four and a half thousand years ago like so much mythology has been created in that time and so on so them understanding him as a world leader it's very easy to see the first like dragon walls and they're fighting alduin and so on and it's just this big powerful dragon set out to like dominate everything but the way that that gets passed down in the mythology for thousands of years into the future is that he's this terrible world eater kind of thing and and that he's going to come and you know what i mean and like and maybe that in the same way that that um the prophecy that gets set forth that he's going to return because they you know you know way back in the day the the dragon um born here a certain drag the heroes with the thumb send him forward in time like so they could kind of create a bit of a prophecy around it or something but it's it's not as um necessarily like ominous as it might be well it still is i guess if it goes around like it's still very doesn't make much difference to a mortal really whether they whether the world ends or they die because to them yeah their their world ends so yeah i'd say the theories it's got a good point but the end of the day doesn't change much about the reality of things it's just an interesting way of looking at it it is interesting to read the comments under it because some people are having that reaction of oh that's interesting and then other people are kind of going like oh i like isn't that just what what's canon like isn't that just what you see while playing it i don't know if they're being a bit like ha ha yeah i guess it's just i already knew that but yeah yeah it is it is interesting yeah yeah so i i guess i i'd even like probably take that as a more likely thing but yeah he's not actually there to destroy the world in the traditional sense and then you as a blessed by akatosh dragonborn kind of deal um are going to end him so he could be you know reborn or something as a non-corrupted version who who will end the world i just like that quote a lot at the end yeah that said we were never sent to prevent or even delay the end of the world we were sent to make it possible so there's another one from um bim lao yamashitobi uh emperor uriel vii is the reason why bandits are so prevalent we see a history of him just letting prisoners go free the protagonists of morrowind and oblivion being notable examples he clearly has an eye for talent right no he just makes it a habit of letting random prisoners go free to avoid overcrowding but that's interesting it's like this is like one of the more of those like sort of funny kind of theories i guess because a lot of them you can chalk it down to like bandits are prevalent because they need enemies to fight in gameplay terms but if you were to like um indulge it and so on it could be interesting that there's um like overcrowding and stuff in prisons and they actually like let lots of them go and stuff like that i'm imagining like an elder council meeting where they're discussing serious matters and he just rocks up like i had another dream last night that prisoner over there we've got to let him go well like and also humor him and like there has been like a fair bit of turmoil in his in his time with the whole like imperial um simulacrum and someone where jaeger farms um yeah he's running up after that yeah and then yeah so it could be it's more of a fun one i think i don't know like there's too much to well that was the thing when he was in that um that simulacrum kind of pocket realm he was getting plagued by nightmares constantly yeah so yeah you wouldn't really want to trust his dreams you know they're probably quite ominous but there you go yeah i mean that's a good point yeah i think it's true um okay so here's one i i think i read this one before jay sanders said sotha still knew his fate and downloaded his mind into the clockwork city he didn't throw away the body parts he replaced with clockwork but also saved them in the end elmalexia only destroyed the mechanical shell his physical body and mind were slash will be reassembled i feel like a lot of this is head canon hopeful thinking less of a theory because i was just going to say if you're going to bring back any character and not have it be corny and kind of forced sofa seal would be the one but you'd have to kind of acknowledge that you're not truly bringing him back you're bringing back a kind of imitation of him i don't think he is the reason being too is like even the whole like creation of the mechanical heart like he set things up so that things would be finished without him there like when they disappear and so on and someone was even saying comments has said would be slightly supported by the fact that elm alexia said that so the seal said nothing didn't even matter a whisper as he died because she just destroyed what used to be his mortal shell basically sort of implying that like cersei didn't care cause it didn't matter but i would say circus didn't care because it's determined like he knew that this was the way things go it's less more so an acceptance of inevitable fate rather than sort of oh i've got a master plan back up like some kind of stoic death yeah versus it's because i've already sent my mind to the cloud so i can't speak and and yeah like the the his ideas living on is would be much more important to him than his hiself living on you know i don't think he cares if if his consciousness ever were to return to nirn so long as his philosophies get carried on by his disciples does depend though because he's remember when we were talking about him and we were saying like he's kind of more uh egotistical than then he like kind of gets credit for like he presents himself as like not but in many ways through his actions and what he actually says about himself he is so i could see it either way like i could see it that he that he would want his himself to continue on but then like you like you said if his death was inevitable then i think the second best thing would be that his ideas and his city lives on yeah he's live without him yeah exactly is kind of the most important thing yeah which would play into his ego mm-hmm yeah i don't think there's a lot of evidence for that theory it's a bit falls a bit more into the sort of like head canon it could be cool like you know um but yeah this next one's actually a pretty fun one actually so mason peck says the humming sounds that nirnroot makes are echoes of the song of creation kind of like how background radiation in the real world is evidence of the big bang this is corroborated by two facts one nirnroot is only found by water and water apparently retains memories of the past nirnroot then is somehow isolating the memory of the song of creation and echoing it out to the world to crimson route is slightly off-key indicating it may be playing back the dissonant sounds of creation the difference between nirnroot and crim in the crimson variant reflects the annuic padomaic dichotomy in the um elder scrolls ontology so yeah the idea that murder is that that humming sound or someone is like from the beginning songs of creation and the crimson nerd is sort of like the lorcanic sort of elements or it's a plant that makes a noise there he is but it is i just had to say that it's a cool theory and even being called implies some sort of importance the song of creation is very annoying i think it'd be something a bit nicer yeah it's not that that is a cool that is a cool idea i do wonder though why crimson nern root then is in like black reach and not do we know other places where it is did cinderian mention anything i feel like it's only there and that's why he's there because it's such a rare plant and he's obsessed yeah yeah um it could just be there i'd like dude honestly crimson under it exists because they wanted a cool new variant of something interesting mistaking it for something else or did crimson exist on vardenfell as well because of the like you're thinking of scraith craw though okay the plant it looks different it's similar-ish but it's that big red leaf looking thing um [Music] hold on hold on he's i'm just reading his his journal he said uh i was carried into his workshop basically a crimson nern known root um and it has like special healing properties as well that are kind of unexplored yeah for sure i think that's like yeah okay so it's from skyrim found in black reach then brought to him dismissed by the person as a noisy red weed um true facts um yeah he's just obsessed with it and then he goes to blackreach yeah it's an interesting theory and it's like you can't really say one way or the other but it is uh it's cool food for thought oh here's here's an interesting thing so my initial research seems to indicate that the crimson nern root has a similar affinity for moisture as the garden variety but also maintains some sort of symbiotic relationship with the enormous fungi that inhabits black reach it's my guess that the fungi itself is a source of water absorbing it from the moist subterranean air like a sponge this provides the ideal environment for the nern root to grow unfortunately the crimson nern route appears to have a vastly shortened lifespan and they are in no way plentiful down here gathering 30 of them will be quite the challenge but hopefully the denizens of blackreach will allow me to gather my samples unhindered um him gather them yeah it could be wrong someone else gathered them but it is still a cool theory um gig gaseous uh considering how repulsive the falma are to eyes of others and how they dwell in the dark and are surrounded by insects my theory is that in their pitiful situation the falmer turned from worshipping auriel to worshipping namira at least in some ways namira probably gave them hope or a way um for them to accept their situation and that's why they didn't leave the dwemer ruins because that would have gone against her wishes her wish to keep them in their pitiful state the osma have a patron daedric prince the farmer could have two my problem with this theory is it's kind of like saying if i decide to stop showering for a week i've turned to worshipping namira you know what i mean it's like it just it's by proxy of what they're doing and where they live it feels like we're making this assumption it's kind of like goblins right like we know that a lot of goblins live in the sewers we know that you know they can potentially worship malacath and different versions of but yeah it would kind of be like saying well they live in the sewers so it must be kind of like that that difference between saying that like all dogs have fur or rather than if it has fur it's a dog because that's kind of what it feels like oh if it's disgusting and if it looks ugly and if there's insects then it's namira related like it it is patronumir or something whereas you can just be you know unclean i do talk about it a bit like one of my favorite videos i've ever made for the channel is uh i think it's called let's explore one of skyrim's unsolved mysteries and the thumbnail has a giant um like a falmer kind of meditating on the front but in that video i actually go through a lot of different ideas about falmouth worship and we go through the temple of scrib and kind of speculate who or what scribb is and how that could be a corrupted deity and who i think it is i won't spoil it but check check that out namira gets a little mentioned but it's not the uh conclusion of the video yeah i i do think overall it's just like it's yeah it's a bit more of an aesthetic um sort of fit but like not even necessarily it's that weird thing too or it's like even you can go like disgust and stuff is like subjective for example like i would imagine that like the dunmer don't see insects as disgusting as everywhere else does because it doesn't inspire revulsion because they've grown up with silt striders and knicks hounds they're qualm rags they like there's so much insectoid stuff that it becomes normal in the same way that you wouldn't be having innate disgust reaction at a dog or a cat or the other animal could you say that about anything though like if namira is a god of disgust and like the reachman clans that grow up worshipping her they're very used to all the yeah gross stuff but to them it's more like it depends i guess whether it's in spite like like one of the things that about is like things that inspire revulsion in mortals and if it's not doing that like if a khajiit starts licking itself that's one thing but if an imperial does it it's a bit weird yeah it's it's it's like they get put in jail and then released by uriel septim the seventh yeah after he sees it all the self lickers are back on the streets thanks to your real sept in the seven but uh yeah all right well let's do the next one um uh c c d um the tribunal cds the tribunal only has access to their divine power within proximity to the heart of lorcan that's kind of true anyway this is why dunmer were never able to conquer outside of morrowind even though they have three living gods the tribunal also arranged the ebonheart pact so they could use the forces of nords and argonians to conquer cereal since they don't have the power to do so themselves correct it's good law no well they are related to the the heart of lorcan they had to like go back and replenish it and when they were cut off for the heart when daigo third returned towards the end of the second era then that's um you know that's why they signed the armistice with tiber septims because they knew that they were cut off from the power of the the heart because um degoth er had returned but um they could absolutely use their godly powers i mean like sotha still left and went to the isle of arterium out like they have to return to replenish it but it's not like it's not like oh you lose your wi-fi signal if you leave too far it's more so like a i i guess think of it more so in terms of a battery kind of thing um i also think it's honestly just a difference in like they're not set on conquering everything like this their thing is like real golden age of morrowind and serving their people kind of thing and like less of like basically like i guess every powerful thing doesn't have to become an empire or an imperial conquest kind of deal yeah cd actually has a lot of theories i can see now uh perryite is like the younger brother of auriel slash akatosh they are both the dragon gods of order but periodic chose to sit out the creation of mundus after his brother was chosen as a leader of the gods instead of him um it's like i guess it's the thing is possible if they made new law or something but i don't know if there's a necessarily like a the way i've always perceived the relationship between periodite and auriel and akatosh is like if you imagine it kind of like with the akkarova soul and it's it's split almost into like kind of you could say different roles i feel like periot was the part of akatosh that was created or separated to be in charge of what goes on like behind the scenes the the annoying jobs that don't really need to be you know that nobody else wants to deal with that's how i perceive peri as opposed to someone who vied for power but failed and is now like subjected to doing all of the boring crap dealing with like elder scrolls looks stuck is so high because it's like it's like what if comparative mythology was real and that like everything becomes more valid like rather than like you know in real life how like comparative mythology is like trying to find some like underlying truth that we probably have no idea of it's kind of a similar thing except there's also more of a literal sort of truth to it all in the elder scrolls and like i agree with the peri um thing not be like not being like a coveting sort of like wanting it kind of kind of thing or chose to sit you know what i mean like i feel like outside of the dragons like it's hard to like say well remember let's like we could start like chronologically but like everyone's just at arda at the start they're all just like original spirits so there is no like but like how they're related or not it's hard to kind of discern especially with so little info on periodic you know but but yeah the way i always interpret it is is he can't really have a huge ego it's almost like the ego had to be separated from this atarda if if you view it as like the a spread off from the akka over seoul but if i mean if he is covetous then he's had a real shitty deal for a long time because it could also be that he is like especially in reference as being like the weakest daedric prince it could be that he found himself a niche like everyone else is like claiming like all of their like i'm claiming domination like you know revolutionary shadows or whatever but like he was like left with nothing he's a weaker david prince but then he goes in and just finds all these little things but he's actually slowly amassing he actually ironically becomes very powerful by amassing a lot of the background like little side things going on like kind of like you know bit of a mastermind littlefinger kind of vibe to it or something like that that you know i'm loving your jazz hands as well [Laughter] actually it's funny drew you might like this this uh theory uh cd and jukstra say things about far graves so juxta says fargrave was a secret testing ground created by the magna gee and the massive skeletons you see scattered about were rejected prototypes for mehrunes dagon and then cd says could the giant skeletons of fargrave be refugees from the deadlight the realm of the daedra lord destroyed by dagon these nomadic daedra eventually were unable to reform or replenish their power without their daedra lord or his realm so they became the skeletons we see in the elder scrolls online i do like that because there's nothing decisive about fargrave's law so i really do like i especially like the mehrunes dagon idea that the failed prototype yeah or all you really get um for knowledge of how he was created was that he was created in the bowels of league like the way i had interpreted that would be kind of like if you imagine league like nirn it would be in a vault you know deep in the volcanic center of the earth where lorkhan's power is strongest and kind of built from built from what the deadlines looks like now um that that's where he would have been created but the idea that they had a separate little realm that they just conjured up as their testing ground is a very cool idea it sounds like us playing with console commands like they just like spawned a new scene and they're like kind of commanded in some daydream i don't know if you've ever seen um or red nausica but like it's um like the idea that there was like so it's like a post-post-apocalyptic thing with all these giant like god warriors these giant machines the ancient knowledge that like flattened everything and there's like you'll find like their skeletons and stuff like left around or so but like the idea that when the magnet imagine if marion's dagon wasn't like the only thing that was just basically a series of like flesh-destroying god warriors like just these huge like weapons of mass destruction but he's the only one that like survived the whole thing and then the rest were killed but like he came in on top and therefore he became like the relevant one and everything like that rather then it's cool but this is all such while this is you know there's not a lot to ground all of this it's just speculation really i think that's why it would be interesting if the elder scrolls 6 and you know that the core bethesda team did embrace fargrave and and and make sense of it because there's not a whole lot to go off yeah yeah it'd be cool um we've kind of talked about this one but i can just bring it up again but like king six one four main card cameron is an eylid and his paradise is a perfect vision of ayleid rule you can notice in paradise that only the humans are getting tortured and you fight main car inside an ailed palace his goal was an a-liter revival that's always been one of my favorite theories yeah yeah a few years ago went for it pretty extensively but it does make sense because you do have um you have sources suggesting that um ailed refugees pushed through into valenwood and then eventually onto somerset and uh they it's i think it's there's a quote that says they mingled with the um with the nobility in somerset and you can see kind of like them over time gathering resources gathering power gathering political sway and then planning to really get revenge on men which does make sense with the i feel like i could imagine there's like all these people like syria that's like um you know those like propaganda like hyperborea sort of like montages and stuff but it's like them but for like the aylids and stuff but they're all like they've been like high elves for generations and generations yeah making me think of that that meme that's like fallout law and then it's like yeah what was the song they always put to that like fast flashy like to be fair elves are very prone to this kind of like cope they do it with al maris too like almeris as a concept anyway is their sort of hyphen or some way atlantis yeah it's not real yeah so like by the way but about that theory getting back on track i don't know if the the whole idea like only humans are tortured in the thing because from from my understanding the people in like his followers go to paradise like regardless of of what you know they are and they get put in the wild where basically the daedra are all out and about and can just run and hunt and kill them the ones that get put in cages i'm pretty sure are like the ones that reject this gift of like oh you can be in paradise but there's scary danger so it's like well you get locked in the cage to be tortured like i don't know if there is like a like if you look at the people trapped there i'm pretty sure like i mean i'd have to check but yeah i i would be surprised if it was kind of like oh just all the races of men are trapped in the cages and but what the elvish ones are roaming paradise still being hunted that doesn't sound very like yeah still i don't know it's but yeah it's it part of me it's a cool theory um and i think it yeah it's it's pretty crazy you can't you'll never get a confirmation but that's kind of fun there's that one has a lot more like evidence for it yeah than some of the others i think so it's a more compelling theory um okay here so here we go john martin auriel and shaw are mortals an old man and a nord who waged war in the distant past and they mantled akatosh and lorcan by recreating the struggle between the two gods this way auriel is described as an elven king who ascends in order to teach the other elves how to reach immortality sounds like mantling why shaw is called shaw son of shore in that one kirkbride story um and why so often the struggle between auriel and shaw sounds more like a regular mortal war so sort of like i guess to like i did so it's like the idea that that auriel and shaw were these sort of mortals that there was this sort of ancient like lorcan akatosh dichotomy and they're kind of like mantling it like doing the same thing and then therefore have become gods of future things because this is the weird thing with akatosh i mean you maybe you could argue that maybe that the akatosh that uh that was like created in the time of alicia or so on kind of actually is more of a revival of of the truest thing like akatosh is older and more true than than both uh law khan and and i mean that sorry kind of suggests that a lot of the elven gods if they're like orioles contemporaries would have been also mortal they would have been like his allies you know so you're cerebenese your finasters and stuff which the more you spread out it's like can you justify so many of these important figures like trinimac as well you know being the right-hand man of auriel that means he would have been mortal as well and remember two well i mean but but elven pantheons they do kind of look at it in that sort of sense as like super powerful humans but that re-apothecized kind of that they were so great like and then everyone's trying to follow auriel's kind of image of like they made their way back to aetherius because they don't have the same sort of distinction between gods and them they believe they kind of just are the same things at different power states and basically whether access to aetherius or not um whereas they've been like cut off whereas the humans kind of you know obviously see it different so they they put like it's a harsh separation between the two but then again even even the naught it's kind of it's it's an interesting idea and it's like elder scrolls law eso has added a lot of stuff which makes the elder scrolls law far more interesting and really challenges a lot of like the typical sort of elven id series of events like the elves it's funny like how aldemaris could be very deluded sounding and so on it might be entirely fake and that even when you stack that up with like you know there's a good there's good evidence to suggest that the elves um were actually the latest to come to um tamriel and that humans were there before and there were plenty of civilizations well like you know like even like we're talking about aylids briefly but the idea that they actually like got on board with the whole star worship thing um because of the need star worshiping kind of stuff that needs to they later enslaved or something like that like but and you know then there's the ideas that the bosmer were there earlier and so on so there it is kind of interesting that maybe sure and that there was some like and it depends how literally you take sundering and stuff too but like maybe there was some auriel and sure were far more human-like like sorry mortal like i mean and then they're like and you know the further back in time you look the more kind of mythological everything was and and magical everything was both in terms of the story being so uh you know being passed on down so many generations could there'd be so many embellishments but also the kind of idea that as time gets further away from the beginning and the ending of the cycle the less magical it becomes so a lot of the more magical feats of these early figures like auriel could maybe be justified at that time in history because interestingly enough to throw a spanner in the works with that whole theory though if you were to read the historical records of what's happening in the third and fourth era they sound pretty pretty damn magical and crazy as well like imagine you're reading about some first era law but i mean it's not it's the oblivion crisis but it's like oh and and monsters were pouring in and running all over the place and then you know what i mean and mehrunes david well this second era too even like all yeah and then even in skyrim it's like dragons are flying all around the place but some dude who can breathe fire is running around saving everyone like sometimes i wonder if that because that theory is obviously based on but it's whether it's like literal or not but the naturally ancient events are going to feel more mythological because you can't verify how real or not they are like when you consider that like the argonians had this thriving ancient civilization but like well before sort of anyone else was sort of there but like there's all of this time where things are happening or something like you can't really determine like like it kind of feels like that in the elven idea of things a lot of this stuff kind of gets dismissed or it's just like random stuff else you know what i mean like because by the way the reason i pick on the elven thing is because the elven series of like they would claim the most like accuracy and it's generally what's in the games before has been sort of presented as as the truth of the matter mm-hmm yeah i i gotta say i spent a lot of time looking at ascended immortals now uh in manco cameron's realm of paradise and they are interestingly they all seem to be like humans like there's a dark elf but he's part of the like torture crew and then there's the high elf who like decides to help you but he's also in charge of torturing like a lot of the other ones seem to be imperial nord breton redguard red guard imperial breton nord like you know what i mean yeah so you know even if he did have more than one motivation the mancar cat sorry the mehran's dagon stuff by far takes precedence in terms of what he's like what's clearly motivating him yeah i don't know it's a tricky situation but that's why mankind is fun i'm going to read that i've read the first line of this one but i want to hear it out because i've heard a few people mention this or maybe it's the same person mentioning it a few times but so he has a few but i'm just going to read the first one but it says um the night mother is the daedric prince namira the dark brotherhood worships essentially the void as this idea or philosophy of sith padme but the void is the sphere of namira from the books in morrowind we can guess that the morag tong had a religious schism and those that left became the dark brotherhood i get that mephala is the david prince of lies but it seems unlikely to me that she would split her own cult even if on paper the morag tong serves vivec this is because the morag tong embodies mephala's philosophies or how society should be run they exist directly as a result of her teaching by contrast namira is the enemy of mafaala and i think this makes more sense if we also consider the story from oblivion i like to think that perhaps the night mother didn't just kill her children in the night but defiled them in some way perhaps ritually ate parts of them and that's why she was caught so easily then she lives on as this perpetual corpse speaking to those who uh to those who she calls the listener uh so those who she calls listener it's disgusting same as the ritual the ritual is gross and i bet it smells gross too and i think myphyla would have something different in mind sweet mother sweet mother sends your child onto me if this is unworthy it's baptized blood fear i don't know this sound this sounds to be so fundamentally different from the legalist version of murder that we've seen mcfarland's cult there are other little things such as the hanging up of corpses the prolonged torture and the befriending of the of a spider but this is my head cannon since i don't think sithis is a real god that can be worshipped only an idea um that's a lot to unpack but i think that the i think the most compelling part of it any of the peripheral kind of stuff of like disgusting or like this like kill of course whatever a lot of that i feel is nice but i actually like the most part was the the connection to the void like namira in eso law has been like consistently more and more associated with this ancient darkness the the void itself you know there's the whole like dark heart kind of thing her place in elsewhere's mythology and even the reachment mythology and stuff so the idea that she is um she is actually intimately tied with this concept of like cythus or something is kind of cool yeah i feel like you could have like a tie-in where there's two concepts it doesn't necessarily have to be sorry like two entities i mean sorry it doesn't have to be one entity like it can be both like you know how they say worship gives power to you know what you're worshiping if they're all sitting around going sith sith sithus i feel like that has to give power still to whatever sith this is yeah like i don't know if namira can kind of secretly be like yeah that's me i feel like namira is too like nebulous of a concept to be like boiled down to the night mother and to the dark brotherhood's practices to me it seems more like you know you've got from the khajiit story you have being when law khan is born in the void and born in namira's great darkness it corrupts an aspect of law khan and you could almost you could almost make the argument that namira's influence kind of um corrupts some of mfalla's um principles and her sphere which creates the nightmare and creates the what goes on to be the dark brotherhood's way of doing things as opposed to namira being the soul daedra associated with the mother the only thing i will say too it's like mafala isn't some like she's not like pro-legal like yes mara tom cause it's legal that's like one of her cults like there's other like the spider cult or something that really does just relish in just like you know um murder and sex and stuff to get what you want like there's and there are obviously other smaller identified cults around the place like my father as as a um concept i don't think she's opposed to anything that's not like you know anything that's illegal or something right and necessarily some sort of systematic kind of thing yeah just if you're putting the disgust stuff in there maybe that explains it but yeah i mean the ritual is pretty gross but that i feel like daedra in general are kind of like you know gross by mortal standards like they may ask you to bring them something unsavory as an offering at their shrine in regards to um numera too as like the void connection too to some extent you can kind of like imagine some things are like perhaps like derivative of or make up a smaller part like you know how it's kind of like law khan is born of sithis and sithis is born of like padme or so on and like then you have like anu down to annual down to auriel like that kind of thing they're in kind of like intrinsically connected but it's a smaller more personified version of it like on paper really like noel is a personified version of anu the initial force and so on and arguably auriel the same for annual and so you could say the same for padme to sit this to law khan but it could also be like patami to sit this to namira this sort of concept of like void you know what i mean there is a lot of crossover between what they represent yeah like so you're identifying one personified part of a larger hall also on the topic of sithis not being able to be worshipped like properly i don't know how how true that is because i know uh the argonians they used to like proper worship sithis with priests of sithus and like in the ancient days you were talking about and there was even artifacts like that were said to be able to i think to destroy entire crop fields like the fangs of this like elder scrolls online added a bunch of stuff and then obviously in their evolution they came to see him not just as this like destroyer to be feared but also as like a bringer of change to be embraced and that's why they're all in there like you know nothing's permanent everything's temporary don't resist the you know you have to resist sorry the fear of death and forgetting and yeah yeah yeah it's um but it's also to what extent like with everything is as much as it's kind of hard in the elder scrolls because then there's kind of like oh every interpretation is true but then sometimes it's also like there is this is that because there is an underlying truth like if you if you look at a sort of like a light being shot through a prism and then it goes out into a different colors of the rainbow but at the end of the day that light that's being emitted all comes from this one singular source that's the same looking light so with that sort of same principle like in a way what the dark brotherhood worship is sithis is becoming a personification a culturally tied personification of sithis or the same as as the ancient argonians or something or how they see this it's not necessarily like the absolute truth you want to mean because it's impossible from like a mortal point of view to actually see the the ultimate kind of truth or you i would think yeah no the metaphor of the prism is it kind of perfectly encapsulates the interplay of anu and patamay like you know i know being the ineffable light that can't be that's just untainted completely and panama coming along is the prism that allows that to then expand into everything that comes after and it's it's constantly branching out from there yeah yeah that's that's um actually i didn't think of that before like padme as the prism um but uh yeah no it's cool like i'm a possibility too like with that than a mirror thing but i think the voice the void component of that is probably the strongest the sort of namira ancient darkness void connection or her and then like you know the night mother could be a nemeria driven thing as like a personification of that like a sort of idol for them to look after because you know they're the way they sort of in that kind of actually maybe as a as they're both void related-ish kind of entities but you can have have namira as personified by the night mother and then sithis personified as the as the dreadfather so you have their two like mother and father figure of their weird cult um but yeah there you go here's a really meta take by yoji shinkawa we know so mundus is the daedra chrome of lorcom okay but then and the player character in each game is a chezzerine or incarnation of lorcan the ability to mod the games is proof as daedric princes have the ability to mod their realms at will and as they see fit yeah i mean this is the whole like the whole this is the whole like dragon break a lot of like console commands all that kind of stuff it is achieving kim because you're an awareness like you can choose to play by the rules but then you can also console and achieve kim and console commands it's like this is the it's fun but like i don't take it as hyper literally it's the same as like the idea that um the wheel is literally the cd rom of morrowind like you see it on the sides of x realizing that like seeing it on the side it's like oh my god i'm in a cd like this is the wheel whatever the idea of the like the god head being the dreamer it's like you could just say instead of the dreamer it's just a gamer you know yeah exactly but this is that it's the real fourth wall sort of breaky kind of stuff which is it's fun but it's you know um yeah i don't know there's so feather tusk has two theories um so aren't calpers really just a version of the grey march the world gets burned and ends and is reborn but yet nothing has fully changed for the base is still there for the shivering isles it is shayagorath for mundus it is sure it doesn't matter how much jiggalag or akatosh slash aldo and destroy it it will just change and still be there funnily enough sure a spirit of change birthed from sithus has won because he has made orioles akatosh stuck in a cycle of constant destruction slash rebirth and change of creating a new world each time did you catch everything there so start with the prep just i need the premise again what was the premise that the cesarean oh the calpers are kind of just like the gray march oh well kind of yeah to some extent okay but it's also like hard to yeah i mean yeah there are parallels to it yeah but i don't direct correlations not so much because some of this gets the kirkbride kind of stuff the shaw son of shaw kind of stuff the idea that the dawn war it's like they keep repeating but they go you know they go through all of the errors and everything comes back to the big apocalyptic ending where alduin aka akatosh slash auriel or whatever is um the elven enemy at the start and you've got all your warriors from sovengaard and they're going to fight together again and that's going to send the pr the premise for the whole next calper and um but this gets all really like spacey sort of it's hard to get any concreteness i don't think you can handle the next theory okay all right it's from from further tusk as well the second theory is my other and more wild theory is that the hist are the dwemer when they tapped the power of lorcan they created a dragon break and kim and literally landed in both oblivion and tamriel as a shared consciousness brass god or golden sapped hist they clearly are a master of constructs and creating variety in them but without access to limbs for tech they used biology it is said the hist give the soul to the argonian and it goes back once deceased maybe they tried to use their souls in a lizard and found the melding of lizard and dwemer's soul made it forget but when it came back that knowledge was gained maybe there are factions in the hist that have different goals those like amora who want all knowledge at the cost of their constructs and those who wish to be free of this permanent trap and create xanmirs to be freed by sithis and those who wish to rule and remain eternal through groups like the anexia kind of this to me it's very the vibe which what i like this is what but this is what bothers me this is why i say dwemer overhyped and stuff like that but it's like the dwemer are responsible for everything it's kind of like the ancient aliens kind of like oh the pyramid stonehenge literally anything of any marvel in any existence had to be because the dwemer masterminds are there and it's just like it's like i mean with the butterfly and it's like is this the dwemer yeah but it's it's just i don't yeah i what do you mean you don't think the history the dwemer yeah well you're right i couldn't handle that you couldn't i'm just gonna say no and refuse to elaborate yeah i think i think the three of us can't handle it that's a that's just it's too big brain for us it's like what it's what's the what's the harm in giving the hiss to the credit for being the hist like why does it have to be the dwemer and why he's mad it does why trees like why are they trees yeah we need to have a podcast of theories that will make scott mad about the other scrolls yeah yeah there's a podcast make scott mad but with theories specifically that like you take really seriously you know he won't do so the argonians are essentially like the the constructs the kind of automatons so the shellbacks who aided the dunmer and the nords in the 2011 pact were actually dwemer so it makes a lot more sense that the dwemer would align with the dunmer than the argonians would but the dwemer disappeared in a war with the dunmer yeah but timer at the time yeah but they've also they've also made this before yeah yeah yeah they could make amends yeah okay oh my gosh argonians are dwemer confirmed i think someone already got the message my theory julian gonzalez my theory is that skyrim takes place tens of thousands of years in the future of the fallout universe cue scott getting mad i mean you can't disprove it yeah that one doesn't even i just like yeah if you want to believe i like and i believe next calper is the pokemon universe like that's what's happening where does starfield slot into it we do know that tamriel was scratched into the paint job of the of the yeah well therefore everyone had a 40 minute video explaining was it actually but like it's not it wasn't it's not it's definitely not perfect no it's not an easter egg it's it's confirmed fact that the dwemer have gone to space it's the dwemer colonization game yeah um man god the dwemer sucks i i i like the dwemer it's just it's very much how much they're given credit for um okay uh here we go this might go i haven't read it fully but here i'm going to read it now caleb lee says predicating this theory on an implied piece of law brought to my attention by you about how water is memory and thus the domain of hermaeus mora most of the intelligent logical and maniacal forces that have ever plagued sometimes literally tamriel have come from the sea dragons slowed come to mind immediately perhaps these entities being partially aquatic are so intelligent because of their connection to the water and the memories of the dead if they were able to absorb the memories of every single entity that ever walked known they'd be formidable for sure it could even explain some of their motives imagine if the slow created the thrash in plague in response to the battle of red mountain for example anticipating further misuse of the heart of lorcan um it's kind of i kind of like the actual i like them also the connection of just hermes mora and the water his memory especially in the khajiit pantheon he's like explicitly attending the libraries of azura under underwater um and that's sort of his like domain and i kind of like that and you know he's you know knowledge memory everything is all and the fate is off is often like associated with tides yeah that kind of um those kind of metaphors are used so but there are other things from water that have nothing to do with or that wouldn't like nereids for example are like these water spirit beings who just seem very in tune with i am i'm connected to this lake and i love it and if it gets cropped that i'll be corrupted so i'm going to protect it yeah but it i think i think it is a cool like i guess at the very least the water is memory relation to like sort of just homeosmore his big inky sort of realm he's an aquatic-ish sort of looking creature in khajiit mythology literal slowdown drag also being um powerful and cities in the water is kind of cool yeah i mean the the water is memories thing is like some deeply guarded secret like it's not yeah this is also a hyper like metaphysical kind of thing yeah you know it would be cool if like in the elder scrolls six you kind of you do kind of like in the phantom menace where they go underwater and swim down to that old gungan city and that's where hermaeus mora is because in reference to the the sort of like you know hidden knowledge kind of thing it's like pretty much a lot of like elder scrolls law that we discuss is all of this sort of esoteric sort of like multiple layers up sort of knowledge that it's and it's not supposed to be taken so literally that you like go drink a cup of water and there's memories or something it's more so like you know memories exist within you like if you look at your like brain it's full of blood all of the time and like what is um where are your memories or something like that and the idea is like you die and the water goes back into the earth or or whatever stuff but that is memories in there and this all kind of other like he always manages to fit existential dread into the past what do you mean i just said your brain's made up of blood no no no like the tone of like we're all gonna die and go back to the earth like that's the meme yeah but i tell you what skate legend says what if that wasn't really a sword the lusty argonian was talking about yeah um you can't have spears they don't exist in the older scrolls in uh from after morrowind so you know it's just uh see these are reiklings do carry them don't they um they got like stubby things here's a quick one wendy danielle the void knights were one of uh lord harkin's failed attempts at corrupting the sun but that's a moon thing like getting rid of the moons plus if i feel like he would do it more often and it's but like the moons isn't even part of the problem i guess yeah maybe it doesn't yeah i mean look when i was really really really young i think there was a time period where i thought the sun and the moon were the same thing so there you go i was just keyed in brainlet confirmed [Laughter] uh yeah um fan theory by mo lags balls magic is dying out we will never see a return to the magical diversity of previous games because many spells and techniques have been lost with the fall of the mages guild the common people even elves will shun magic more and more and most skilled wizards now keep their knowledge to themselves instead of sharing with an organization if you're saying magic is dying out as in like the practice of magic is dying out you could make that argument but obviously magic itself whether or not it's being tapped is going to be there for the for for people to use yeah i guess it's just the idea that what we saw in skyrim with magic being more shunned is just going to be like more and more which like it could be i mean skyrim's quite a you know anti-magic place particularly in the fourth era but a lot of places would be a bit more after the oblivion crisis happened yeah and it's it's also like yeah a lot of it comes down to like you know gameplay choices it's justified but it is a while a long gameplay ago but i think it's just called like post-apocalyptic skyrim or something but it's the theory that basically it's in terms of like it's a it's a it's an apocalyptic sort of series not necessarily like oh it's it's the fallout world kind of things like as in the genre but more so that it's it's a time of like if you were to put it out like most likely stuff yeah like most of the population is all bandits um and then you have like these small like city states or so on but you could compare that to like you know here's your megaton or something it's your white run but like outside of that they're overrun by bandits and creatures and or forsworn or all kinds of other groups like in terms of like there's not a and there's all these ruins around of like more ancient civilizations and things yeah yeah but again like bandits it's probably there's a lot because you need to fight them because you need enemies to fight yeah but there should be less of them soon what with uriel septim being assassinated yeah they'll all stay in the 200 odd years ago so you'd think they'd be way less bandits so that's the post-apocalyptic skyrim how about the prehistoric skyrim secret secret videos yeah coming soon it's me just spoking out about how cool needs are and how like elves like humans and stuff on them on tamriel before elves all because uh it'll make sense man there's heart there's hard evidence for it it makes far more sense in the broader narrative of ancient history well apparently uh michelanius thinks drew is a snow elf oh you do have a your shirt could fit what blue eyes white dragon yeah it just feels a little bit like glacial maybe yeah maybe it's because i look so pale in this light i want to see not pale what what else do we have um the i'm trying to go through something like try and find the ones that uh the thalmor are a prophetic representation of the microsoft acquisition by ryan henderson well he's on uh skydog 631 the the empire would have collapsed on its own shortly after the events of morrowind regardless the oblivion crisis was just a nail in the coffin what do you think because they're yeah do w what do we think about that i'm trying to i'm trying to like by the way in future guys please please throw in extra points for your theories justified like so why do you think that the events of morrowind would have a drastic impact on the empire like i actually can't really think of anything drastic that would affect the empire from that yeah i know like borrowing's powered there's a lot after it i think there's a lot of like dialogue piece from memory there's a lot of dialogue pieces that talk about the empire being in like fractious positions and other lands and stuff like that like they're kind of cause like you know as a setting for a game a empire in turmoil is far more interesting or at least areas that there's things going on is far more interesting of a setting than if yeah but for sure but that's every empire right like on the fringes and stuff they'll when they get big enough there's always going to be problem areas oh also the the talos aspect the the wolf guy saying that um it's on its way out like sometimes yeah yeah diet whatever and yeah there's a few things like that um but i guess that could be true like you know but it's hard to tell like i don't know why specifically i feel like there's that thing you got to divide between like what is thematic evidence and what is hard evidence so like thematically it makes sense from now that the empire is like crumbling further like if you were to compare it to like you know roman empire allegories or stuff like that or points in history if you were to have a look at like the symbolic thing of the dragon and the crack on the bottom and so on the very fact that you can join the stormcloaks and separate and then they've just lost so much already i think it's um thematically it's cool like this thematic evidence for it to decline and be reborn but yeah and at the end of the day it is the it's the dominion who kind of set the downfall of like obviously the downfall of the empire is gradually happening but it's the dominion's fault for it to actually get into the position it's in now because you know the events of morrowind obviously the people who are most affected by that are the people of morrowind um so while the empire were not in conflict so much with with morrowind morrowind is much more going to be much more easy to kind of bring under control of the empire without the tribunal there by the way i uh uh i made a tweet a while ago i'm just like i just just i didn't really just stir up and just see what happens that people don't just like how slalo did nothing wrong was the kind of thing i just threw out there but the point i was like trying to like i don't know this isn't really a theory it's more i guess probably falls like with a take but like how slalo like from like what you would personally enjoy in a society is far more in line with like your beliefs or values or something like you know valuing diplomacy commerce and like you know they were even like half of house lalu um you know nobles and stuff aunt dunmer and so on they're far more cosmopolitan you know you even get to king hell seth he officially outlaws um slavery but all of that doesn't really matter because like you know a few years later red mountain erupts and blows up and argonians invade for revenge it's like too little too late kind of vibe but um and you know halal that's the point of thing is that there is obviously like you know corruption and stuff and like i think it's the brother of duke vadim draen he's like the um leader of the common tongue kind of thing um but at the same time like on the surface at least the values or so on working with the empire stuff like that but it's kind of it's just kind of funny to be like on the reverse to be like no no the the house lala the bad ones the indirel or the good ones the ones that are like pro slavery pro religious dogma pro like you know what i mean i think your take is more like they're the less sort of multiple bad yeah but i mean but the way you phrase it is like everyone will be like no they did nothing wrong yeah yeah it's just it's just a meme take but provoke it but like yeah like how slalo as like seen as the bad guy the great house is like they're different and it's like yeah working with the empire it's sort of sold out the thing but it is kind of in the idea of depends what your interests lie in if you want to because i love morrowind and the dunmer the tribunal and everything but it's like it doesn't sound f it is like a religious like you know theocratic state it's like as if the pope was like um you know king of the world kind of uh black it's but to a more like the actual application of religious law and stuff would be um superpowers with the idea of the empire crumbling if we tie it back to the oblivion crisis if it wasn't for the oblivion crisis you would have had a lot of cooperation between the empire and house lalu who would be much more prominent were it not for the effects of the oblivion crisis because in the oblivion crisis the the empire pulled all their troops out of morrowind causing way more um you know hatred among the the people of morrowind so if you don't have the oblivion crisis as the kind of setting in setting and turn like losing everyone around them the empire could really have had quite a good thing going with house lalu lalu i think it's also hell seth um they they were allied with um house dress at the end of it like they managed to get an um to ally themselves with house dress and get cooperation from them which are historically a really like so i'm leaning on the exact opposite of this guy's take i feel yeah if it wasn't for the oblivion crisis the empire would have been doing drastically better after the events of morrowind that's probably yeah i mean i feel like that's just fair i think he's yeah i guess they're saying is it's like oh it's going to collapse one day but i feel like that can be said of like pretty much all states ever like every there hasn't been a state yet that well you know what i mean like we're in the one we're in now but like the chances that they live in [Laughter] yeah okay well i think um i think we covered a bunch of theories if we didn't hit yours and you think we should have do comment it on this video because we'll use this video as the source for all our next um theories in the next podcast we'll do more of these because they're always fun but do try and throw in um supporting points like otherwise we have to do more work to try we need to like it's not our job to think of stuff to support your theory yeah yeah i mean like we're just critical flesh it out but you gotta like you know like give a little bit of supporting evidence so we know where you're going with it but again just to be super super clear this video comments on this video nowhere else not back on the community tab we will be sourcing from the comments on this video with that said thank you for watching social media links are in the description as is a link to our merch or patreon if you want to help support this podcast and we all look forward to nerding out with you again very soon

Channel: FudgeMuppet

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Id: t-u9ejmiupg

Length: 63min 45sec (3825 seconds)

Published: Sun Feb 27 2022