Asmongold reacts to "Negativity in the WoW Community" | By Hirumaredx

negativity in the world of warcraft community in this video we'll be discussing the negativity in the wow community what is it why are people doing it is it even justified yes of course it is and to start this off let's discuss negativity bias negativity bias is a psychological phenomena where we treat negative events as more important than positive ones for example of course you're having a great day at work things are going well you listen to an excellent radio show or podcast on the commute to work but then a co-worker makes an off-handed remark that you just find irritating then you find yourself a stewing over those words for the rest of the day and then when you eventually get home and someone asked how your day was your reply isn't always terrible suck even though it was overall pretty good except for that one negative incident it's the same with everything right it's the old [ __ ] story you build a hundred bridges you suck one dick you're known as a dick sucker you walk down the street you shake a hundred hands you get slapped in the face once you're gonna remember the slap this is a pretty common occurrence of people yeah and research shows that it's most likely just rooted in basic evolution the tendency to pay attention to bad things and overlook the good things could have been literally a matter of life and death and those who are more attuned to danger and paid more attention to bad things we're just more likely to survive they're the ones that saw the basics of negativity it makes sense right because like whenever you're a caveman and you see a bear and you pay attention to that [ __ ] bear imagine the guys are like yeah there's a bear over there but there's also a squirrel and he's really nice so let's focus on the squirrel and not think about the bear how do you think that guy did an evolution that dude was gone millions of years ago he's done he's finished we got people that care about bears he's dead bias is that when presented with two equally important pieces of information you'll treat the negative one as more important even if by an objective measure they're exactly the same in importance this is why bad things tend to grab our attention studies show that negative news is more likely to be perceived as truthful since negative information draws greater attention yeah it seems that's one of the worst things to me dude is there people oh bro i'm just telling the truth that you a piece of [ __ ] it's like why is it why is it every time that somebody's like oh i'm just being real being real is followed by being a real piece of [ __ ] the truth is harsh no if people are [ __ ] like that it's not the truth is not harsh like people are just [ __ ] [ __ ] and they say [ __ ] like that to rationalize being [ __ ] it's not that much it's not complicated it's really not if you've ever seen someone say they're just giving their honest opinions or they're just a very truthful person it's almost always followed by a negative opinion or a negative statement because in most colloquial english languages the term being real is synonymous with pointing out negative flaws and of course if you don't believe me i'll have actual links to scientific studies in the video description that you introduced yourself and a great article would summarize it for you if you don't want to look through scientific papers because they're quite boring now let's go over a fun little statistical analysis you see i the person creating this video about negativity actually puts out a lot of negative videos so i have a great set of data by just looking over the numbers of the videos on my other channel okay i have two main types of videos over there the top 10 best of and the top 10 worst of and if i take the numbers of those videos average it out remove the outliers in the top and bottom 5 for some of the best possible data we can get the premium stuff the kind of numbers that would make your statistics teacher proud the worst of videos performed three times better on average and in statistical terms that's ridiculously significant it's not something as well like a 5 difference or even a more moderate 25 different it's a 200 difference in views negative videos just get more attention because people are more likely to click on them and then youtube rewards those videos by recommending them more because they're more opinionated it's like as i said you're walking down the street yeah it's because they're out of the ordinary well they are though right i mean to a certain extent i think so and it's not i'm not saying that negativity doesn't just like intentionally like attract more attention i think to some degree it does but it's more complicated than that get on them and the attractive topics will just keep drowning in more views thanks to being recommended to more people yeah which just kind of repeats the cycle the youtube algorithm has a system of where the rich get richer and you can't get much richer than making a negative topic video although i will say there are diminishing returns negativity true but for the most part that doesn't matter and the benefits outweigh the negatives to the point that you could legitimately just make a channel dedicated to only covering negative topics and perform pretty well now i'm sure i wonder has anybody ever done that i wonder and so yeah there's plenty of that right of course yeah there's plenty of that and uh negative topics do i think draw attention to an extent i think positive positive i remember like my tour gas video was really popular and i was like very positive about tour guests like getting hyped up about new stuff or doing a new raid or something like that always is uh is very popular but i do think that people to some degree there's and also like there's a bit of like i guess like confirmation bias that goes into the negativity because i think a lot of people think negative things and then they don't want to express them for whatever reason so then whenever somebody makes a video that's negative it kind of allows that person to express how they feel it's like negativity by proxy many of you can think of a couple of channels or wow fan sites that are very negative with their opinions on the game yes and they get lots of views because of psychology and the youtube algorithm rewarding those opinions more than the more moderate neutral opinions i feel like i i don't i don't i don't like that i don't agree with that because the implication there is that the negative opinions are fundamentally wrong and the more moderate and neutral opinions are more right like i i don't agree with that i don't i'm going to listen to it again and make sure i can actually respond to what just science that are very negative with their opinions on the game and they get lots of views because of psychology and the youtube algorithm rewarding right there's another reason why they get a lot of views is because people agree that's another reason is because people watch the video and they agree because if everybody watched the video that was negative and then the video was like oh well [ __ ] this i don't want to watch this video because it's wrong then they would dislike the video but these videos that are negative have huge amounts of positive [ __ ] comments and support behind them and there is evidence of that not always being the case and evidence of that is never one of these big news publications has some random [ __ ] uh you know like freelance writer write some article about 10 things that white people aren't good at and then everybody on the internet gets mad about it that that would if that was like a youtube video it would be down voted into [ __ ] oblivion even if it got that many that many people watching it so there are people that are watching these negative videos and agreeing with them they are agreeing with the video it's very different than watching something and then getting mad about it like yes people you know people would follow donald trump whenever he was still on twitter so they could get mad about every tweet that he would make a hundred percent that happens but there are many people also that watch these videos and agree with them and to an extent i have no problem with this criticism itself is not bad and making negative videos isn't inherently bad either if it was i wouldn't make so many of them myself really it kind of just goes into the specific kinds of criticisms some kinds of criticism is just inherently better than others and some of it can even be downright toxic let's take a look at a post from a developer from another video game community paradox here we go before closing i'd like to note a few things on the subject of giving feedback when i first started at paradox the direct align between community and developers was a major plus for me because i like the idea of talking to the community without having to run every post past three different marketing departments first however this kind of directing community access comes at a heavy cost for us as many of you have noticed we have gotten a little sparse in these forums in the last few months i wonder why even years the reason for this is that often we do face a debate culture that is not enjoyable to take part in where it is taken as a given that the devs are either lazy or incompetent and where everything we do is viewed through that lens not only is it incredibly demoralizing it's been months of your life creating something only to see the people you made it for tear to shreds it is also a debate that gives no one anything we aren't paid a two-way through pages of abuse to find a few nuggets of useful feedback and so the feedback is not acted on a lot of you have access to sources and languages we don't speak or have studied some detail that we aren't aware of such feedback is very useful just a few weeks ago someone sent me a plan of the turkish railway in 1936 taken from an old turkish book so i was able to use that update to the turkish railway setup at gamestart we're not looking for fawning adoration although we will certainly accept it or a forum in which our decisions can't be discussed with a critical eye we want to have your feedback but there is no point to it if it can't be delivered with a minimum of respect for each other if you want to have a form where developers are willing to go answer your questions then it is also your responsibility to build a place where we feel welcome and where we can disagree in a productive and professional manner it costs you nothing to assume that we are acting in good faith none of us wake up in the morning to go to work in order to do a bad job now on an unrelated note so what do you guys think about that because i think that's true to an extent because some people are way too that they're way too vitriolic with what they say but i do also want to say that it's not always just a matter of a difference of opinion like i i think this is again at the end of the day like you have something like the corruption vendor rotation and the devs disagreed with the players on that let's use this example the devs disagree with the players on the corruption vendor rotation but there's no reasoning behind the disagreement there's no reasoning behind the conduit energy there's no so that's why people get mad about it that's why people get frustrated about it is because they're being told something and there's no logic behind it it's something that people yeah respect needs to go both ways how do you expect the players to respect the developers if the developers don't respect the player's time the developers the ones that can make the game and change the game and whenever the consistent the same things happen over and over and over it's exhausting like people were very very reasonable during bfa i would say so especially compared to how things are right now with shadow ants and nothing changed they just did the same stupid [ __ ] the whole time man like i the thing is like i don't want to sit around and [ __ ] coddle some developer and tell them that half of their ideas are good when they're not like i can yeah the insults and stuff like that but i'll be honest with you guys i think that they are incompetent i do i think they're genuinely incompetent i think they either don't care or they're incompetent that that's a hundred there's no way that you can do something like the corruption vendor rotation and not be incompetent it's just impossible like and i'm just so [ __ ] sick of hearing that that's negativity you're right it's negativity and it's deserved because i'm getting my time wasted by somebody who has no [ __ ] idea what they're doing it's crazy man like i've tried to be reasonable every [ __ ] past oh they're making it better oh they're making it better i'm sick of hyping people up because they do something that they should have done to begin with oh wow let's get excited that we added something into the game that should have been there since day one how many times are we gonna get taken advantage of like this i'm tired it's so stupid i [ __ ] on the devs so much yeah because they're making [ __ ] that's why i'm because it's [ __ ] the content sucks doing tour gas two times a week for no [ __ ] reason sucks it's trash it's not good there's nothing that that doesn't even doesn't do any favors for anybody the devs and i i am very positive about a number of things i think the raids are great i think the dungeons are great i think some of the mounts are great they do too many reskins but some of the mounts are great but these systems are [ __ ] garbage they are [ __ ] garbage and they're i'm sick of making excuses for it i'm sick of coddling these 35 40 year old men around into doing something that they've done wrong systematically for three years like bobby kodek didn't tell them they needed to make conduit energy bobby kodek didn't tell them they needed to make uh you know the shadow ends rares not drop their special items for all classes there's no no the bobby kodak didn't tell them to do that they they thought that up themselves but what if he did i guarantee you bobby kodak doesn't even [ __ ] he doesn't care okay he just wants to make the money let me let's keep watching the video the thing is with this is like i i think that videos like this are really important but i always worry whenever videos like this get made because sometimes i think that they're used to mask legitimate criticism and write it off as just being negative or criticizing or whatever so videos like this are good but i think that we need to there needs to be a line let's play a fun little game let's go over to the wow forums and type in one little phrase followed by pretty much anything and that phrase is why does blizzard hate blank the fun thing about this game is that no matter what you type in for that blank you'll find something in the wow forums let's start with an easy one why does blizzard hate the alliance now let's try why i mean can you be surprised here's the thing right it's like but there's truth to this there's always been a horde bias in the game there's like everybody knows this like there's been a horde bias in the game the horde racials are better and on top of that why does blizzard hate how can you not ask that ask that question if you're trying to mythical grade in in wow right now is it is it blizzard's fault ultimately i think it is yeah a hundred percent but of course people are going to ask that does blizzard hate the horde yeah now let's try why does blizzard hate night elves why does blizzard hate battle pets why does blizzard hate trains each time you're bound to find a threat or two about even the most niche topics and there's a good chance someone is 100 convinced that blizzard just hates a particular thing now this is just a fun little game that was mentioned to me by another youtuber who doesn't make wow videos it's funny and definitely has nothing to do with the current time yeah it's actually it's funny getting back on topic constructive criticism in the negativity there's this assumption i see a lot whenever i'm reading negative posts about the game online either on forums reddit threads or just youtube comment sections since people will like to complain about the game on just random videos of mine that have nothing to do with their complaints yeah and a lot of the time i see this underlying assumption that the developers themselves are purposefully trying to do a bad job like for example the covenant campaign the covenant campaign for basically all four of them is mostly required in order to max out your renown and you get some neat rewards for doing it so it's something that pretty much everyone has to do yeah and in that vein the questing is ridiculously easy and it's basically there just to show you the story so i've seen complaints about it which basically go along the lines of why is required content so ridiculously mind-numbingly easy when blizzard has proven that they can make solo content fun and because the content is so easy for an experience which is basically the culmination of the storyline of fighting off against the big bad evil guy why is it that it's so easy you could afk through half of it and still succeed and you know what yeah very fair criticism yeah i didn't even think of that as a problem but now that's been pointed out why do they make it so easy well it's because the developers are literally brain dead and couldn't make a good game if they tried and the only reason they force you to do it is to increase engagement numbers because they don't care about you having fun and actively work against the players whenever possible oh and also okay i i want him to use i want him to [ __ ] write out another one of these patronizing paragraphs about why they did corruption vendors or why they have conduit energy patronize me about that because yes i agree i agree that yes people do take it to way too high of a degree but yeah it's a problem like that's not the reason why people are saying it like yeah obviously some people are a hundred percent but here's the problem is that like if you're talking to like for example right now i have is 41 000 people watching the stream there's at least three hate watchers here i i know you're here maybe you're banned in chat and you're just watching and you've got your second account on [ __ ] nordvpn on your phone and you're gonna be like i [ __ ] hate you you're so stupid like you dumb and you know like this half the viewers yeah sure you mean oh yeah you mean 30 000 yeah sure look all i'm saying is that there's going to be negative people and i think it's not fair to like the thing is like it's complicated it's very very complicated and uh there's there are no simple answers for this kind of thing because like you have community managers that are supposed to make this not so much the case and they're supposed to be the ones that are kind of the liaison they basically tank the uh they tank all the hate and then they take the good stuff and bring it over to developers and i think that's that's important but at the same time like things like the the covenant campaign being super easy the reason why it's super easy is obvious like anybody who can't see that is dumb it's super easy because they want everybody to be able to complete it regardless of who they are like i i can't see how you can look at it any other way then apply for a dev job and fix this [ __ ] well the thing is like i don't look you don't have to be a chef to see a steak is undercooked man like you don't have to be you don't have to go and do that like it's not that complicated so they're out of touch yeah the premise of this complaint is entirely reasonable the conclusion is not this is an excellent example of unproductive criticism the flaw pointed out is a pretty minor complaint all things considered i actually think that the reason that the forcing engagement numbers is not a flaw i'm sorry it's just happened too many times it i don't think that i think the other two are are [ __ ] stupid yeah of course their brain dead could make a good game it's right yeah that's stupid uh the the last sentence is two but two but them trying to force engagement numbers yeah i i agree i actually agree with that because it's happened it's happened too many times but it is pointing out something which could be perceived as a legitimate flaw although the conclusion drawn from that is just to assume the developers did on purpose because they're being malicious now here's the thing with the developers i'm sure many of you have seen the articles about how not well paid most of them are in comparison to other gaming studios or tech companies that require the same skill sets yes and yet developers are clamoring to get jobs at blizzard and they post it very excitedly on twitter whenever they land a job there because there's tons of passionate talented people who want to work on the game yeah if anything's true i would assume the complete opposite very prestigious you can make more money by just making videos about world of warcraft than being a developer on the game that's true they do it because they're very passionate about it or at least the game design itself and game design is very complicated and you don't always want to give players exactly what they want that was one of the main arguments as to why people voted classic wow to remove all the conveniences that blizzard gave players for them so the underlying assumption that all negative traits in the game are done because the developers are malicious just seems wrong and it's more likely they're just trying new things and just not really hitting the mark then why they keep trying the same new thing over and over how many times do you miss the mark until you decide to yourself uh you know what this is maybe you shouldn't keep shooting the bow and also like he's right and i actually wrote this in my thing that the developers they give players what they want and they don't have the insight to give players what they need i i don't think that they understand what players need they don't understand the reason why people want something they only listen to what the players want and they can't discern from that you can't like reverse engineer how a player says that you can't reverse and near what a reverse engineer what a player says into why they feel that way like the developers can't they can't make that connection and that's the problem it's it's like an example of this is like the solo queue is it i don't think solo queue is the solution i think the problem is actually that players don't interact with each other in pvp anymore there's tons of reasons for that that's the real problem and solo queue is just a symptom of that problem that's where the quote comes in with everyone assuming the worst intentions of all game designs and the example i gave with the covenant campaign is the real one i found on the internet from a prominent source too yes i will say though that bad feedback like this is thankfully not very prevalent in popular youtubers at least i think asthma gold for example does a great job with giving constructive criticism thank you he's one of the biggest wow critics and is very vocal about his dislikes of certain parts i sure am but does so in a constructive manner without assuming ill intention by the developers whether you agree with or like the guy or not i do i want to say i have to correct them here i do actually think that they have ill intent with some of these systems like there is no way that you do a corruption vendor rotation and you don't have ill intent i i'm sorry like it's just there's no way there's no [ __ ] there's no [ __ ] way i i can't believe it i won't believe it like same with the conduit energy i i don't believe it makes no sense but i personally disagree with some of his opinions on the game but that's because everybody plays and cares about different things in the game yeah which is a good thing to keep note of when getting all of your criticism from only one source that's very true so let's take two statements one of them is that the developers only design the game in a way to increase engagement metrics the other that the developers design the game in a way so that players will have fun the statement on the left is a negative opinion and this statement on the right is a positive one at first glance this statement on the left seems more true because it's negative whereas information about the subject is pretty equal it's about just as much information that players have access to which would suggest either one being the case with probably a little bit more information pointing towards the second opinion however if you state the first opinion no one will question your sources and in fact you'll be hailed for telling it like it is if you quote the second opinion people will immediately respond with a hesitance and probably ask how you know this or the very least question the validity of that statement even though objectively speaking we have about as much information on both of them being true although having one of the opinions will have i disagree with that we literally have the we've watched for three years we've watched the uh the earnings reports the quarterly earnings reports that are used as as success metrics that are then given to the investors so we clearly know the reason why we think that engagement metrics are the way that developers measure success is because those are used as metrics as metrics of success in the quarterly earnings report to shareholders like that that's why being called a truth teller and the other will be met with less favorable comments generally in the variety of being a paid blizzard shill you have to justify your opinion more if it's a positive one and you don't have to explain anything if it's a negative one now i don't know about that like dude people will try to pick apart the [ __ ] that i say oh my god dude people will try to figure out some little [ __ ] uh you know inaccuracy and what i say they yeah right yeah [ __ ] right i i think that like there's tons of people that will do that and especially because like you have the people that they will they will reward blizzard and they will say anything that blizzard does is right so you're going to have people that are both sides like it's like if you go and you read some of those threads of like people that have legitimate criticisms you can very easily find people that will always try to find the bright side or the good part silver lining in whatever gray cloud blizzard gives us so it's always um yeah you don't lose 30 of your of your population of people playing the games if you're if they're fun if they're good right like there's clearly something wrong like it is obviously clearly directly like evidently something wrong so this is an argument validity of the criticism this is about propagation of negativity well the propagation of negativity is circumstantial around which the exam about the examples themselves like saying that wow sucks versus saying that wow is good i think is probably a better example because they're both they both have the same degree of information right like those are the the statements they gave earlier are unequal because one of them implies a certain degree of of knowledge about the game and uh the other one doesn't so like i think people will say the same thing like there's people that say both of them but i i see what you're saying though i do last point every year on april fool's i make a video on my channel where i argue an unconventional point like i love it those are my favorites those are so good and these videos are written in a way where i'm not telling any lies and the videos are presented in a way that makes the points come across as kind of reasonable and pretty much every year the videos are thank you so much and change a lot of people's minds on those topics just remember that a lot of news videos and scathing criticisms written on public forums present their information in the same way as my april fool's videos they're not telling any lies they're bringing up good points even it's just the conclusions are about as ridiculous as saying garrosh is a good guy and that's the real problem of the negativity in the world of warcraft community constructive criticism is great and healthy for the game it's just the criticism that's on the same level as my april fools day videos are a little bit toxic and to end off here's a quote from the wow diary a journal of computer game development to kind of put it into perspective that people have been complaining about the game since before it came out and there isn't any more bad things about the game today than there were in the early days we just have a lot more people on social media that can make their opinions heard louder than before this quote is in relation to when blizzard added the rested experience system we have today in addition to designing the class mechanics rob pardo can take much of the credit for making wow accessible to casual users he came up with an elegant corpse retrieval system that ameliorated the post-death anguish previous mmos embraced he made leveling much faster and implemented a rest system that rubber banded the rate at which hardcore and casual players leveled instead of punishing players who played the game non-stop robb rewarded casual players for taking sensible breaks yeah as per usual the fans on the forums went berserk about blizzard turning wow into a care bear game and that we were forcing customers to limit their time but after a week the hysteria blew over the public reaction was annoying but rob and the designers held their ground the rest state bonus system remained after tweaking only a couple of its values those are the kinds of things i agree with that so there's a lot actually to say about this video there i actually have a lot to say about this video and i think that the the one thing that i want to say about that is that the difference between the arrested experience and let's say the legion legendary system on release is that we can look back at this decision and say that it was a good decision whereas we can't look back at the legion legendary system and say that it was good or we can't look back at a number of these other systems and say that they were good so i think that's another difference is that yes obviously the the most extreme opinions do absolutely dominate the most conversation and the reason why they dominate the most conversation is because they are extreme they they grab people's attention that's absolutely true but the reality is that those people are a minority those people are the extreme five percent that will say that blizzard you know they will celebrate being able to give blizzard seventy dollars for the burning crusade deluxe edition or they will celebrate uh people quitting the game because they want to feel better about what they did because they hate wow like these are not the the majority of the population but they are the loudest extremes so they feel like they're the dominant voices but they're really not uh the the reality is that a lot of these decisions here can be looked back at in retrospect and you can see the you can see the design idea and you can see the wisdom and the ideas and i think that's a completely different paradigm than if we look back at the wisdom in not trading as right armor and there isn't any there's no like you're right these kinds of things look great in 2020 or you know like hindsight's 2020 or whatever you want to say but there are plenty of other things that do not look that great in hindsight there are a lot of mistakes that blizzard did make and i think that's what the the difference is do you have examples of extreme positivity at the same rate as extreme negativity the point is in balance yeah i think there's more negativity yeah i definitely think so yeah i agree with you yeah i mean that's not a that's not a reason like i'm not debating that at all so the thing is that this is uh i think the video is important it definitely is but i also think that there's a lot of um there's a lot of circumstantial things that are going on with the game now that i think do rationalize a lot of people's frustration i absolutely think so and i know that might be pop might not be popular or whatever but i think people that are really mad and frustrated about the game right now i think that especially if like if you're a mythic raider you're probably fine because that's like the only thing you care about but like i remember talking to like just those two or three random guys that were pvpers the other day on my stream they didn't like how pvp was going and they're not streamers or anything they're just people that stopped playing the game and stopped caring i i've been extremely here's the thing right is that i've caught a lot of really negative criticism for uh for like liking the essence system in 8.2 i caught a lot of negative criticism for thinking 8.2 and mechagon and nash guitar were great a lot of people didn't think so i did think so i think tour gast is not as bad as people think it is i think it's how often you have to do it um it needs to get a lot better but i think that it has potential i got a lot of criticism whenever i said island expeditions could be improved and everybody else wanted them thrown out and thrown away like i i got a ton of really i got a ton of negativity because of that because people disagreed with me i've been very positive about those things i've said that i liked cataclysm that's another one i really enjoyed cataclysm uh people disagree with that too and there have been other things that i've said and been positive about that people have not liked overall i mean yeah there are things that i'm negative about but i don't think that i'm just constantly negative or i wouldn't have these opinions about things that people disagree with of course [Music] you

Channel: Asmongold TV

Views: 268,326

Keywords: asmongold, asmongold reacts, asmongold wow, asmongold highlights, world of warcraft, asmongold tv, ZackRawrr, hirumaredx wow, hirumaredx asmongold, asmongold hirumaredx, wow worst, wow best, asmongold youtube, shadowlands, wow is dead, wow dying, wow dead, world of warcraft dead, wow negativity, classic tbc, classic tbc deluxe, classic tbc store mount, classic tbc boost, classic burning crusade, wow community, shadowlands bad, classic wow, wow classic, negativity, wow

Id: 9-qlLaAYceg

Length: 33min 18sec (1998 seconds)

Published: Sun May 09 2021