Asmongold Reacts To "Is WoW Classic Casual Friendly?" - MadSeasonShow

is Wow classic casual friendly [Music] oh I know what you're thinking classic casual friendly how dare you well at least that's what I would think whenever someone brought this up yeah but this idea has a bit more weight than you'd think not I mean before the game was released even the developer said that this game is made to be casual friendly escorted from the computer yes you never quite had an exclusive preview of the game all the way back in 2001 this was during the quote hardcore era of mmo's XP I would have never played runescape I hate a runescape I thought it was dumb not runescape whatever that ever EverQuest yeah EverQuest I would never point EverQuest cuz I thought it was just a [ __ ] ass game and it looked like trash so like yeah for anybody didn't know like they made wow specifically to compete and take the casual audience away from EverQuest and obviously it worked last item less and even permanent death we're not only present but they've been coming amongst the drivers and the gameplay design a piece holy [ __ ] I'm with it okay maybe that's a bit dramatic yeah it's still you'd be pretty pissed can you really consider classic folder Warcraft casual yeah well that's what we're setting out to answer today yeah MMO is complex so it's hard to pin them down into just casual or just hardcore oh god in this video I wanted to cover each end of the spectrum and bring up points for and against this idea and at the end trying to make a conclusion I think we should first define the term casual gaming has changed over the years gone are the days of retro gaming we're successfully finishing the game who was never guaranteed this is drew yeah that's so [ __ ] unfortunate man like I remember I would literally [ __ ] that blockbuster right here I would write my [ __ ] initials E on the Super Nintendo cartridges that I would rent so I could go back and rent them again and continue the same game that I was playing like that was all the time man like this is like that's like [ __ ] peak 90s and yeah yeah my mom actually gave me the idea and anyway so I I don't know like what makes a casual to you guys before he gets into what what what in your mind defines a casual life is pretty good back then yeah cuz we're all like [ __ ] like 9 years old and we didn't even know what taxes were like so yeah of course life was good 2 hours a day so yeah I think if you play two hours a day or less is that a is that a casual argument I mean the way that I've always looked at like kind of it depends because there's like so many other different ways of playing like classic two two three yeah two hours of day two hours a week I don't know I would say less than less than maybe like ten hours a week how about that less than ten hours a week does that seem fair yeah maybe somewhere around there I mean I guess everybody defines casual differently I mean you know it just depends yeah yeah like ten hours a week or less maybe even like 15 hours a week or less it depends on like I don't know everybody has their for definition let's just keep going let's see what his is bring in time were you rented games because you didn't have any friends to play sports with yeah and then you wasted a few days of your miserable pathetic existence yes trying to get past the first level of super ghouls and ghosts yeah give up yeah break something yep and return it yep back then that's right advantageous to make these Adam show us all whether they were eating quarters through an arcade machine or farming little kids allowance out of blockbuster one thing was clear they're effing hard and if you manage to fit one it was an accomplishment they're ridiculously [ __ ] all however as I said gaming has changed surfing today an expectation and the outliers today are the ones that are just mildly difficult is one of the reasons why the Dark Souls franchise is so popular this one of the few mainstream games today so Rawls mindlessly slug your way through it with little to no punishment today many say it's unforgiving and hardcore but if your word released 30 years ago most anything's gonna be Unforgiven I'm forgiving in hardcore if you try to take on five of the [ __ ] a three of the [ __ ] things while you're standing in the poison and blight town well you've got the little buzzards there were little little wasps throwing dirt at you whoever the [ __ ] wherever the [ __ ] he got this footage the guy is an idiot the guy's a straight [ __ ] idiot like oh yeah it's like wookie yes a Drake sword - he's got the Drake sword and he's playing like that the guy I can't it's not from me all right I did not do this like I figured this out the first [ __ ] time like this is so you guys know there are people that are even worse than me at this game so to say that it's run-of-the-mill in terms of difficulty yeah it wasn't that hard so why am I talking about all of this well the basic point I'm getting here is that collectively the definition of what is casual and what his hardcore has changed quite a bit in fact and this brings us to world of warcraft released 15 years ago now most people would say that the world of warcraft was casual and during 2001 again no permanent death no item loss on death and not even any XP loss it was unique in the sense that she didn't want to break your keyboard in half every time he died and it's one of the major reasons why it became so successful it appealed to that untapped mainstream audience of people who wanted an MMO to play and I'd feel like they're going through a torture rack every time they logged on yeah I mean the question EverQuest there's there's so much anxiety about it it's like if I die I lose experience and like all this other [ __ ] like of course I don't want to deal with that nobody would want to deal with that goddamn today well good idea about a game dude I figured the best way to do this is to tackle it Gork Lee let's take a look at the aspects that most would deemed to be casual and classic okay and sort of compared that to not only the current game but also just gaming in general so for casual the biggest point supporting lists that I always bring up are all of the daily and weekly stuff that you're lacking compared to current yeah in the current game which at the time that this video was made is BFA you have so many things you need to do either daily or weekly in order to efficiently gear your character you have your daily emissary question I feel like that's non cassius which you get every eight hours on three different kinds yes our casual doctrine assaults which pop up periodically the warfarin switch popped up in multiple stages you want to do the scenario once per stage for the cash in the world class for some gear the quest for asteroid and you wanna do your weekly mythic plus your weekly island expeditions to fill up your bar for that s right there's a while since TVP no yep don't forget about that one and of course you'll be grazing yet with the adven tures titan foraging and for difficulties mythical animal and can realistically get gear upgrades on exotic you have your weekly rates the amount of things that keep you on the treadmill your current game the staggering compared to classic well yeah no one is forcing you or putting a gun to your head to do everything but as i said you need to do a large portion of this stuff well they are really because if you're in a mythic guild right and you're in like a competitive raiding guild at least or it's like a guild that is competitive and players in the guild are competitive against each other for raid spots you are absolutely forced to do these kinds of things because if you're not doing them somebody else in the raid is doing them and if they're doing them and you're not doing them they get a spot and you don't that's what sucks about it is it basically caters to the highest common denominator and then everybody else has to play and basically accommodate to that it sucks and by the way guys as soon as we finish this we're doing onyxia okay so if you're unsaved to onyxia please [ __ ] log on please message me we need to make sure that we get this [ __ ] done okay we're gonna have basically an hour and a half to do onyxia so please log on and get this done yeah anybody who's not saved to an ex yeah if you want to optimize your character it comes with the territory of online gaming even if it's not directly there's a competitive aspect to nearly every single one of course it's like when you say you wish flying wasn't in the game and then sodon't says well just don't fly then well that's easy to say when the game is balanced around it yeah just go ahead and put yourself at a massive disadvantage nobody's got a handy got the same idea with all of this daily and weekly stuff to gear your character yeah that's what song and even if you don't get gear there's always a certain power tied to all of this stuff to service the carrot on a stick so to speak all of this takes time and a lot of it and if you do everything it's about right for classic however you do your raids on one difficulty once a week it is that to say that classic isn't time-consuming it's incredibly time consuming all mmo's are but it doesn't come from a place of urgency when you implement so many daily and weekly I think the word that he use there is really good urgency you know whenever you have this kind of [ __ ] where you feel like you have to play the game constantly that's urgency and I don't like that I never have I think that's complete [ __ ] [ __ ] you know they create this feeling where you have to do it oh man I have to do this all man I have to do this you know it's like if you're not playing retail wow you feel like you're missing out in a way and in classic like yeah you feel like you're missing out if you don't do your raid yeah but it's just like a matter of the amount of time and a lot of times needs to log on right you all got in once a week you do your raid versus a BFA you all go in every day to do something or you miss out now it's just too many too many times that you miss out and I think it's fatiguing for players listen to your game you're creating the sense of urgency to rush rush rush yeah I'm get it done in time yes you're gonna lose out yeah everyone else is doing the war front so you better too they're almost out of time so what ends up happening is that a lot of the times you do this stuff because you feel obligated to do it all behind instead of coming from a place of fun at least that's the way I feel whereas in classic since you don't have this urgency nope you can do everything at your own pace and when you feel is right the smart casual friendly yeah another point that many people will bring up in classic is that the classes are more straightforward and easy to understand yeah of course to be honest with ourselves here the classes ain't plastic at the very basic level are easy to understand and also in some circumstances at the more advanced levels they're also very easy to understand such as this class that we're looking at right here and the damage breakdown that we see yeah this is actually a very very easy to understand class I mean the rotation for crafts majors is crossbolt that's it yes that's the whole thing and guess what they top the meters are you capable of pressing one button well come on in no I've been very vocal about class balance and classic versus current I prefer classic overall because I feel like the classes are more unique they all have their own roles to fill and in the current game I feel like they homogenized everything to such an extreme degree that you lose a lot of identity yeah in classic the majors are the AoE class they are concurrent most classes have pretty amazing you every class is the a lesson only druids could battle rez and incur in anyone with engineer can battle rez the druid was unique because they're so nimble and now it seems like every class has some sort of insane speed burst or oh crap but they don't so on and everyone can do everything they still just undeniable is that most classes today are harder to play at a very basic level you're using more combat abilities and you have more practice to make for a more complex and well the classes are harder to learn in retail that's the issue is that like even if you want to say like the game play like in the rotations are simple whenever you understand them if like you put a new player in front of classic and you put a new player in front of in front of BFA you give them a max level character I think it seemed to me a lot easier for somebody to figure out how to play a classic character versus a BFA character and I got that amount of time that you have to spend learning the class I think is super important because if you don't that then or sorry if you if you have that so much then it becomes like people don't want to figure it out they just get overwhelmed like I mean it's completely [ __ ] like I don't even know what else to say almost feels about one interesting rotation yeah in classic there are still intricacies to master yeah particularly in PvP there's a lot of depth I've always said that while the classes in classic are easy to learn they're quite difficult to master mainly talking PvP here we've watched more the difference between a bar and a good hunter in classic PvP more so than there is in current because I feel with everything being so bursty there's less room for error but as far as DPS rotations are concerned at the very base stop DPS by the line for casual players reside there it is very simple yeah but it's a double-edged sword I think that's true you know the majority of the classes and everything you know and classic are very very simple you know in terms of you know their raid rotations and you know the only real intricacies that you need to work into and like move into with classes happens in PvP now you can play the entire game in PvE and be a brain-dead idiot and you'll be absolutely fine and by the way you can do the same thing in PvP and get about you know 80% of the way there to and win a lot of fights anyway especially if you have better gear than somebody so I do think that like in classic like you don't have to know that much about the game you can just basically press your two or three main abilities and that's about it and unless you're playing against somebody who's like super serious you know you're gonna sometimes you'll come out ahead I think it's cool that these classes are unique and that they have young roles to fill but the issue with that is that they have their own roles to fill there are clear winners and losers whether it be DPS thinking or healing warriors are the best tanks that's for attribution paladin's aren't the best DPS true neither are moon Ken's throw this is something that isn't casual friendly the casual player is very likely to just pick a class and say oh I'm gonna be a balanced DPS druid that's what I'm on did I think that there's a guild for everyone and with how easy people are going through these rates you'll be able to find a spot as a balance druid certainly yeah a process gonna be harder could ever yes there's star chicken and I mentioned PvP earlier as you may have seen already the PvP in classic is very versatile yeah or do you see two on two matchups lasting for 20 minutes yeah with everyone able to do everything this is commonplace in the current game it's why they dampen heat give by eight different [ __ ] counters like that's why is there's like a hundred and fifty different counters to each different ability I mean that's you've got eight different interrupts three different stuns you know two different full heals five different defensives on each team and you've got to play through all those it's like a it's like it's like a game of literal three-dimensional chess and it's really really complex and unless you play it all the time you don't know what the [ __ ] going on after a certain amount of time in arena classic you can blink and you'll be dead boom there it is there are matchups where you're pretty much guaranteed to lose unless the other player is afk or so okay again this is the way I prefer okay but it's not very friendly to casuals really and again there's wrong with that but casual Warriors aren't going to like the fact that frost mages can take them to 100% to 0% in one frost Nova or that fear lasts until you're dead yeah so it's casual friendly in the sense that these classes are easier to play at a basic level and not casual friendly due to the balance or lack thereof I did mention rating though so let's get into that a bit now if you've been following attention to the rating scene you may know that the two rates in classic Onyxia and the molten core hardest [ __ ] through quite quickly Oh what even in week one like the guild Apes I didn't even have a full rate sixties that's insane in the desert big props for that for the purposes of this video though we should engage the difficulty of these raids based on the top 1% or as the average guild which at the point that this video was made should just be starting the molten core and onyxia that being said overall the raids are easier compared to the first run which is what most people expected I think I do well they're easier than they were in classic and I think what Mad Season says right there are raids are easier taking into account mythic mode and current I think the raids are easier than heroic mode 2 honestly I think that if you took if you took the people that I did the last raid with right the molten core raid with I'm pretty sure they would have a hard time clearing normal mode they really had no idea what they were doing it was a terrible run and it's like you can obviously have really really bad runs like that but at the same time you've got to have I mean you you I don't even there's some points where it's like the classic rates are so easy but there are still some times that people manage to fail and they fail on such a spectacular level it's just incredible you think that people overstated a bit I personally think that people will have a hard time with a q40 yeah next rammus in particular the difficulty in rating with classic isn't necessarily complexity with the boss fights you know they're pretty straightforward they sure are like you don't really need a deadly boss mobs in classic ideal it's more just from wrong execution and trying to manage this super spiky damage button with 15 years of experience under our belts this time and not to mention the advent YouTube and just the ease of information at general such as appearing lists and having they're definitely easier living game boys so it's casual friendly in that aspect but there's another side to it the good thing of not having four difficulties in rating is that there's one Regnerus yep there's no LF our ignore us the normal heroic mythic history purple and victim can't beat them there's an alternative if you don't get a piece of loot that week you can't downgrade to a less powerful verse stop don't even shows a good thing I think it's table tame the sense of it being a world one path to completion as convenient as Ella fires to have within assuring that everyone sees the content in my opinion it D legitimizes the rating seen as versus us and it allows you to significant killed searching and social process which are crucial and I'm the most in classic it was a big deal to work together with your guild in a tune and gear up and get to know each other well yeah cuz I do legit amazes everything like it's like you kill Ragnaros on heroic like who cares so you didn't do it on mythic idiot they say oh woah you killed a shara oh well you did on normal mode you haven't even done a heroic yeah and then after you doing heroic who cares because you didn't do it on mythic and then you and I met again I took all well you didn't kill it fast enough it's just there's you can never win you never feel good about succeeding that's the problem it is like it with the raids you have one difficulty of the [ __ ] raids you do the raid the raids done that's it you don't need to reinvent the [ __ ] wheel that's why it's my opinion on the rise mum can I picture us me private server this is factual vanilla I'm pretty sure and finally get into these raids and see Regnerus or NaCl so it's a weird story going on with raiding here with how straightforward it is it's more casual friendly yep but due to their just one it was Sophie little Tino ala far yeah it's not casual friendly so give each side a point here I guess well it's not lazy for us we touched on it a little bit let's talk more about gearing yeah this is pretty similar to raiding it because it's not such a straightforward thing the gearing in classic is more straightforward that's why people like it there's no LFR bone river's edge you can't Titan forage I can't proc speed leech a socket you get bone river's edge that's the best one you can get you're done Don and say what you want about the azurite armor and Titan forging systems you have to relent that it is more complicated it is or always create some abilities which are considered the best but they are still more complicated than classic hearing just the fact that best in slot lists exist for classic not really occurring should say enough so classic gearing is case that's a good point you know gearing and in retail allow is like much more of a gray area you know it's very hard for you to know okay well this is good this is bad this is why this is why it's not you know and yeah I totally agree everything to waste players time monopolize them oh yeah it's just like all these little things to waste your time in retail Wow where it's like classic everything you know and to some degree it feels like you're working towards you know a goal whereas like in retail you're just working towards a slot machine like III III don't know as I said I'm really excited to see what they're gonna say this year with Blizzcon because I feel like there are so many people that are in my shoes and they feel the exact same way about like the way that retail Wow is just basically a slot machine with so many different elements and I really think that they're gonna kind of tone that [ __ ] down in the next expansion because I just can't see them not doing it I mean they're said to they've said two things so far that yeah and kind of nice they've said they've insinuated that something is going to happen to Titan forging yeah and that they they said that the pruning might have gone too far and that they will look into you know reeling it back and putting some back some ability so those two things alone it tells me that maybe they're reconsidering a lot of their design choices and maybe they're pushing it in a better direction but well that's the same we'll have to see but I totally agree I mean I think what I'm waiting to see is I want to see them give you deterministic gear that is what I want as right gear was a very good first step as right gear for all of its fall backs and setbacks and everything is deterministic you get the eyes right gear at 4:15 or 4:45 or whatever the [ __ ] it is now and that is it you cannot upgrade it really besides like getting the pieces on it there's nothing random about it and I like that as well friend live with those respects but on the flip side if you can't kill Rick morose you can't kill him like I said yeah but you may laugh at now since again people have been kind of blowing through these raids yeah but what if it's C'thun or Kel'Thuzad again only time will tell but if you're talking about the casual player I think they could have a pretty tough time with these rates what's your job just having one path to this loop and also something I haven't mentioned yet there's no personal mood in the rude awakening for a lot of people that's right like the Masek you have to compete against others for your load which with 40 man rating has been pretty interesting to say the least now I am on the streamer server which is always gonna be 200% more spicy yeah but already there's been a ton of drama with who gets one ninjas are bound and at the end of the day not enough loot to go around ok these bosses dress it's gonna say me alright for 40 people so it's inevitable that but you say me and it's not a very casual friendly thing and it's not even getting into the more abundant and chance in the whole world buff situation which is a whole other story so let's again just give a point to each side here casual friendly in the sense of how straightforward gearing is and not casual friendly in the method of obtaining that gear let's talk about all of this stuff class balance rating during PvP and so on comes after leveling us so it probably should have talked about this first impact but this is a category that most would put in the non casual back then it was super casual like I mentioned with no permanent death item lesser than XP loss but as I said standards have changed I think like casual unfriendly and everything in terms of like leveling taking longer and everything like that I think that only is true in the context of making the goal of the game getting to 60 because there are a lot of people who like leveling and just playing the game and adventuring through it and don't necessarily have an in-game mindset and it's like whenever they're playing the game their primary goal is not to get the 60 nowadays I think that a lot of people that play classic their goal is to get immediately to 60 but there are a lot of people who just say hey you know what let's relax and just play the game and see how far I get and I think that element of it is casual but yeah if you're trying to get to max level as fast as possible of course while classic is more unfriendly because it takes way longer and casual today has a different meaning if you want to compare it directly to the curtain came I'll go more casual and straight of being able to buy levels yeah and that's not even getting into heirlooms dungeon finder no group quests no war mode to tackle PvP IFIF you're getting ganked all questing content being syllable gold being easier to obtain yum being straight-up purchasable which makes a lot easier together you can stop flying mounts and much more yeah too much to go into detail okay honestly you've probably heard all of this a hundred times yes that's suffice to say the leveling and classic is harder not just more time-consuming but also harder no longer can you just pull 5 mobs at once and never stop to eat or drink sometimes you have to stop you drink like mmm do I really want to pull these two murlocs well I'm a warrior so I guess not let's just play it safe I've done they stop any running into account that this is all mandatory thing in classic I don't think we can consider it very casual friendly Oh grats I personally think that it's kind of exaggerated sometimes how difficult it is to level but still I think it's hard enough to where most casual players will have a tough time with it depending on their class taking there's like some there's sometimes where classic leveling is genuinely hard but you have to like get a group like that's the thing is it's hard solo and it's like for example there are like non-elite quest areas that are really hard to go through as a level appropriate player I think the best example of this is like the you know like the place where you have to rescue like captain or Colonel whatever Keshawn in red Ridge Mountains and you have all those Black Rock champions and like the Black Rock that works and everything and the reason why that's very hard for so a player is because aggro they're all they always aggro another one like you pull one and it a goes to you pull one and a grows three which is more like it and it's difficult to do for like a warrior for example we're like a rogue for the most part I mean obviously there are some people that are able to do it sure but for an average player I'd consider it very challenging so I mean for for something like that yeah of course it's a lot harder but if you go in there with a group it's a [ __ ] joke and I think that's the thing that a lot of people don't take into consideration with leveling and like the difficulty with leveling is that if you play with a group and you play the way that boys would I think probably intended you to play then you shouldn't have too much trouble it's hard when the mobs kill themselves so yeah there's that too into account not only the difficulty of the mobs but the other stuff I mentioned like the time-consuming travel Yemen like a gold just smell training and so on and it's not even getting into the more miscellaneous stuff such as the greater need for grouping and interacting with people professions being tougher to level weapons skills the PvP system being an insane grind no gear tokens to catch you up so you can skip raid tiers and it goes on and on and on so what conclusion can we draw here yeah well as what I said in the beginning mmo's are too complex of a genre to put into these neat little arbitrarily defined baskets because really depends again as an FPS game it's a good pointy a side scroller which I drew comparisons to in the beginning of the video they're tremendously huge worlds filled with a hundred different things to do and a hundred different kinds of people to me some of them casual friendly and others not so much the reason why people love classics so much is that it satisfies both crowds if you consider yourself part of the hardcore crown you'll find several things to invest hundreds and hundreds of hours into whether it be here gear the professions gold making PvP ERP or whatever or if you can only plan the weekends you'll slowly level your character 260 by Title V lines but you'll get there and you'll make some friends along the way they've been trying to kill and do some babies endgame who knows maybe even some casual raiding good classic is casual friendly and it's also casual and friendly now nothing right is like do you know what's a really good advertisement for wanting and join a guild watching my MC run last time you watch that and there's nobody that sees that that doesn't say okay I want to join a guild now this is ridiculous and it's like that's why that's why guilds are so great is because obviously you can have like runs were you know you have half the raid that can't understand one mechanic and you're like man can I please just join a guild of people that know what they're doing and that's the whole reason why people do it I think that in classic it became much more of a thing and if you're looking for an answer to the question is classic more casual friendly than current it's a subjective thing but I personally think it is no daily emissaries of daily world quests table missions incursions war fronts island expeditions for difficulties of raiding nothing to give you the sense of urgency that you must do these things or you're missing out there's beauty and simplicity which is a less art and modern mmo's I think and your exact look has been so popular and one of the reasons why there's such a big demand to bring it back overly complex or do we define it I hope you at least find the video entertaining or interesting liked it if you liked it and I'll see you in the next one peace I agree I agree I think this is a overall I think is more fun more casual but we hope you enjoyed today's [Music]

Channel: Daily Dose of Asmongold

Views: 367,858

Rating: 4.8369722 out of 5

Keywords: asmongold, asmongold reacts, asmongold wow, daily dose of asmongold, asmongold twitch, asmongold highlights, asmongold youtube, world of warcraft, asmongold moments, asmongold classic wow, asmongold wow classic, classic wow, wow classic, asmongold mad season, asmongold madseasonshow, madseason, madseasonshow, madseason classic wow, madseasonshow wow, madseasonshow classic wow, madseason wow, asmongold madseason, asmongold classic, classic wow casual, wow casual

Id: EAViy5L0GR4

Length: 31min 8sec (1868 seconds)

Published: Tue Oct 22 2019