Witnessing to Mormons | Lynn and Mike Wilder

thank you Pastor John hey don't don't clap for us it's all about him isn't it we're just instruments okay my note maybe kind of not very sweet but he's working his best through me and so we give him all the glory okay hey we're excited to be here tonight you know we were here last spring and this this is a wonderful church you know I walk into the church a lot of times I mean we're in churches all over United States and just the fact that it says Bible Church in the name that's a good indicator okay just the fact that there is a cross here and it's a cross back there and as a cross on the building and it crosses other places that's also a very good indicator because we know what the Apostle Paul stated in Corinthians 1:18 for the preaching of the Cross to them that perish is foolishness but to us who are being saved it represents the power of God remember I was thirty years without the cross and I used to wear my LDS garments that I've replaced those garments with this little thing called a cross praise God so we're so excited you know the weather was this wonderful last spring and the weather is wonderful today you know we might just move here since this is such nice weather I mean it's very counter well we live in Florida it's kind of warm in the summertime and I assume it's not warm here but but anyway we're excited to be here we've traveled a long way but we we got smart now we got an RV okay so we're RV and for Jesus and now this fall in December we have been married 44 years that's pretty good right but that that's nothing that's nothing for a married couple to survive six months going 14,000 miles in the United States they should get a certificate that's okay so I mean it gets so stressful sometimes in an RV when you're traveling just the two of us I actually got on my I got a app on my phone called RV divorce attorneys so but but we're surviving it's getting better okay so but anyway god is this great he's using us and and we're trying this preach the good news that's all we're trying to do we're trying to preach the good news of Jesus okay and that's all we want to do for you know there's a lot of things and Christendom out there when you watch TV and things it just doesn't sound right that's why I'm so excited to be in churches like this they really get the point across okay they know their word yes yes so anyway let's get started here now Lynn just retired as a professor okay so when she speaks you have to pay attention okay there will be a quiz at the end okay and if you pass you go to heaven and if you don't pass well you'll have to speak with dr. Lynn again okay so though their work out the details well let's get high do you have to click yes I'm a man you know I always had the clickers so okay we have to point any particular direction okay so there we go this is just about us no this is actually about how I guess this is about us sorry about me it's about him okay but you know as I mentioned it in in the church I mean in traveling speaking of different churches the Amer this lady who were out is she came she must have follows like three different places and never time afterwards she came up to me and says oh hello I'm so so I'm a Calvinist I said well that's nice okay and then in our place she came up to me later on and says Oh hi it's me again I'm gonna Calvinist sighs well oh that's nice and then she get her the 33rd time and I says I try to be nice I said look if you want to be a Calvinist that's okay but I don't think standing at the pearly gates saying your accountant s is going to get you in okay I think the fact is that it's all about Jesus okay if you don't be a Calvinist that's fine if you want to be an Arminian that's fine but it's all about Jesus he's the one that's gonna get you in okay for us my son always states this he says it's not about the name that's above the door of the church it's about the name above all names right so when people ask me you know who are we well I just say I'm a I'm a biblical Christian I'm a believer I'm a disciple of Jesus and I think that will get me in amen so but anyway moving on here so what we have here okay clicking on you can read that this is Adams Road ministry so yeah let me tell you a little bit about Adams Road we last time we were here we told our family stories so probably some of you know that we won't run through it tonight but the long and short of it is our our oldest son served a Mormon mission in Russia our second son in Denmark our third son went to Orlando started bumping up against mostly Southern Baptist evangelicals in Florida ended up reading the Bible reading the New Testament twelve times during his Mormon mission until one Monday afternoon went to his knees and salvation came to our household he was kicked off his Mormon mission called an antichrist they tried to excommunicate him and Mike and I I'm a professor at BYU he's a high priest we live in Utah and we cannot figure out why he's in so much trouble right well he had stood in front of his Mormon leaders and the other missionaries and he had professed that he was saved alone by grace through Jesus and that he he did not say that he believed that Joseph Smith was a prophet or the Book of Mormon was true he simply testified of Jesus and that was what got him in trouble my he ended up challenging his parents to read the Bible we did begin to read the Bible and we got saved so Adams wrote as a ministry that's been around 12 years the one I was just talking about is our son far to the right his name's Micah Wilder and then the son the tall one in the middle is our second son who served his Mormon mission in Denmark he also came to saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ the one on the left is now our son-in-law one of another missionary that my canoe and started sharing the Bible with who came to salvation then married our daughter now the fourth one in the yellow dress has been with they Adams Road ministry for three years anybody in here heard their testimonies they've seen them they're actually in the area the next week I pray that you'll go on their website and try to see them she is out of polygamy she's out of the LeBaron colony in Mexico and two days ago Monday night we did a presentation in Colorado City and there was a salvation of someone out of polygamy now how's that for God sure didn't see any of this coming and Lyla has been a real asset to our ministry go ahead baby this is Mike's in my ministry you'll find us at unveiling Mormonism calm go ahead why don't you just give me the clicker well okay thank you all right this is our first book 2012 if you know who john ankerberg is he's a Christian apologist he had us do a six weeks show with him and Sandra Tanner on Mormonism you can find that this book unveiling grace is our family story and the family of the first twelve people that got saved out of Mormonism because Micah got saved on his mission probably has been hundreds maybe thousands at this point it's in a book this book was a virtual download from the Holy Spirit to me guess how I learned to write BYU made their professors write so that we would have articles out there and be well-known and God took that ability and had me write a book tell the story and then Mormons read it and sometimes come to salvation and the Lord but also Muslims we've had Muslim converts anyone who's kind of in legalism and understands the difference between works and grace this is our third book it came out last Thanksgiving this is because God laid on my heart folks who had left Mormonism and gone to the New Atheism there are lots of those folks and so this is kind of an apologetic for why you should believe in God why the Bible is reliable that kind of stuff okay and there it goes okay I understand that Eric Johnson's coming to speak to you soon all of them in all of the ministries that witnessed Mormons we all kind of work together we know each other there aren't that many of us we got together and they edited this book but we each wrote a chapter on how we witnessed a Mormons and actually tonight that's what we're going to deal with this how to witness to Mormons this is something highly recommend missionary 9-1-1 dot-com if you want a witness to Mormon missionaries do you know you can go on Mormon daughter work or LDS org and actually sign up to have the missionaries come to your house highly recommended it's a good way to hear what they believe and to practice talking with them and what that does we would prefer the Mormon missionaries to be speaking to strong Christians instead of speaking to nominal Christians that get pulled into Mormonism percent of their converts come out of biblical faith yeah so so anyway you could just keep them tied up there for four or five six months a year or two and then they don't have time to desert other people so starting in September we started a podcast called unveiling grace talks all about grace you can find it online unveiling grace podcast.com these are all resources for you to use now we always begin by saying this we were Mormon for thirty years we love the Mormon people these are good people who believe in Jesus they believe they have a saving faith our parents were both Christian we we marched into Mormonism at 24 we were there for 30 years and I can tell you no one I knew a lot of Christians in Indiana I had Christians in my family I don't recall one time that any Christian ever stepped into a conversation with me about what I believed or who their God was or what the Bible said now people say well would you have listened I don't know maybe I would have but how are they to hear unless someone preaches to them right now they are a very different face except they're told it's not but it is and so we're gonna examine some of those things tonight that would all be new information to them the things that the Bible says that would be against Mormonism actually let's talk a little bit about this Mormon culture okay these are wonderful people they have great reverence for their leaders do you know that when I was at BYU the Prophet used to come sometimes since speak in the Marriott center in the big basketball Center we professors were allowed to be in the tunnel so that when the Prophet walked by we could swoon or whatever I I really had this just overwhelming like rock star kind of thing for Mormon leaders and that's how they feel about their leaders they tend toward political conservatism but not always proselytizing is certainly important to them they have all these missionaries around the world outward appearance is important to a Mormon they believe that they can tell I thought when I was Mormon I could tell if you were Christian by how nice you were Christians typically judge whether you're Christian by what you believe and what the truth is what right but not so with Mormons so if you're being unkind to them or kind of in their face or to direct with them or bashing with them you're you're likely not going to get anywhere right The Book of Mormon says contention is of the devil so they see if you present something opposite Mormonism and you do it in an unkind way that's gonna look like contention to them and if you were to direct you might actually hear them go I know the church is true I know Joseph Smith is a prophet I know they just default to their testimony and then you're probably not going to make any forward progress make sense so your recked approach is not typically something that's gonna work with our good people achievement is very important to them yeah one of the things and we really encourage in especially if you listen to Micah's presentation you need Christians should be known for love and kindness right I mean that's the gospel John if you read and understand what Christian we can teach the truth but we can treat teach it in love and kindness you see the missionaries on the street I mean by sium I'll go up to them and say hi you know be kind to them ask them if they're hungry I am lunch or whatever and just try to develop a relationship with them and show what it's like to be a true Christian okay then if you have them at your house and remember if you have the missionaries in your home teaching always remember do not have any weak Christians there because they can be drawn in they might hear something so make sure the people there are sound in their doctrine and just ask them questions Mormons let them be the expert and just ask them questions when they say a concept and said well that's really interesting here's a Bible verse that I don't know how to explain us but could you read this and could you reconcile this verse with your scriptures with your teachings and let them be the expert but let them look at it and a lot of times when they read these verses Ephesians 2:8 9 or whatever case may be that kind of go because they may never read those verses before openly so but but do things with love but do not be ashamed to the gospel of Jesus Christ but do it with love family is everything to Mormons they are very traditional and accept traditional gender roles if the parents are LGBTQ the kids are not allowed to be baptized into the Mormon Church LDS scripture and the prof actually trumped the Bible so Mormon General Authorities give us a word once a month in a magazine called the ensign and twice a year they have a big conference called General Conference I believe it's either this weekend or next weekend it's right about now where they hear from the General Authorities and those words from the General Authorities are like Scripture right and those things Trump the Bible well why do they Trump the Bible because Mormonism teaches that we believe the Bible to be the Word of God as far as it's translated correctly but it's not always translated correctly so they literally believe the Bible's been corrupted and things been taken out of it that's what the Book of Mormon says so most converts going into Mormonism come right out of Christian faith folks who don't know their Bibles and that's he grew up Baptist I grew up Presbyterian went to church every week but we couldn't have told you how you got saved right didn't know our word Mormons dislike contention and their allegiances to their one true church and they have very sacred things that they keep from the public so if you don't know them those are Mormons those are many Mormons now Jim Catlin is a pastor in Utah at Main Street Brigham church and he's the one who did the missionary 911 call landmines if you're trying to talk about faith with a Mormon there are a certain place you probably don't want to go or the conversations going to blow up and not go anywhere okay one of the things that I said before is void contention second a void behavior LDS consider disrespectful or unkind don't get in their face that does not look very Christian to them okay the other thing is you probably don't want to dress in short shorts because that is disrespectful to a Mormon I mean those are things you might want to think about they dress modestly and if their temple Mormons there they're going to have sleeves down to here and they're going to have something at least this long because that's where their garments are and they have to keep them covered up avoid pressing to talk about deeper doctrinal issues with Mormons I would avoid talking about polygamy or racism you know there are 26 scriptures that say dark skin is a curse still in the Book of Mormon and the pearl of great price Normans are very offended by those things they'll say well we're not racist anymore you know our prophet had a revelation in 78 now blacks can go to the highest tavern and stuff DNA evidence those kind of things can be really offensive to them our approach is to have conversations based on the Word of God there are all kinds of things in the Word of God that are opposite Mormonism that I didn't know existed in the Bible and you're going to present those in the kindest and most wonderful way and we're going to show you how to do that avoid LDS scripture other than the Bible we suggest you use the word of God wine God promises it doesn't return void it is living it's powerful it's active and that is where the Holy Spirit's gonna work with people right okay a point here when there's there's many different ministries out there there's no magic bullet okay so when you're talking with your Mormon friends let the spirit guide you in bring things you know if the concept of you know polygamy comes up or whatever well if they bring it up just say well you know I I can understand we know why you guys might have practiced it and because you say it occurred in the Bible but you know can you show me in the Bible and the Old Testament where God told a man to practice polygamy and they'll go and start looking at Abraham and read it and realize it's not there okay so you use the word of God to defend what you believe okay you don't need to try to defend at this sate well just explain it because so many times I have spoken to LDS people about polygamy and no does say well you know Abraham practice it well yeah yeah he did so did David you know so did Solomon see how how they did [Music] was did not end well but I always go back to Abraham because that's you know the base of it I just say show me show me in Genesis where God spoke to Abraham and told him to take you know Hagar as his wife or anybody and now go back and try to do it because in Mormon scriptures it does say God spoke to Abraham to take another person in fact it actually says in LDS scriptures that Abraham was counted righteous because he had concubines and they bore him children but what does the Bible say about Abraham's righteousness how is that counted to Abraham because because of his faith so that's what you need to you know could point out and so what the Bible says he was counted righteous because of his faith it says this in Genesis but you're saying this okay can you explain that reconcile that you got to get them thinking because they're going to be very you know they're they've been raised in this and they're going to be very defensive of that but you got to get the mind thinking and God will work with that of course you're always gonna start with prayer pray God will show you who he's already drawing to Jesus within your sphere of influence you know the Scriptures say that the work of God the Father is to draw people to Jesus he's at his work all the time 24/7 so there are people within your sphere of influence that God is already softening their hearts showing them truth working with them right but you don't know who it is because you can't see into someone's heart but God can so I think it's a really powerful prayer to ask God who he's already working with within your sphere of influence so that you might step in and have a conversation with with them right here are the Scriptures father's always at his work no one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him and the work of God is to believe in the one whom he has sent now let me tell you this Susan's story real quick when I was leaving Mormonism I was so confused about how to hear from God because in Mormonism I was taught that the more you had an emotional experience the more it was the Holy Spirit telling you it was true so I would stand as a Mormon pulpit tell bearing testimony that Joseph Smith was a prophet and I would weep right it would come from this real emotional place so Mormons believe that the more emotional it is the more true it is so you Christians sometimes don't look like you believe in Jesus because there doesn't seem to be any emotion behind it right it's something that we're gonna talk about so I Mike and I did this Bible study called experiencing God and Henry Blackaby goes through the four ways according to scripture that God can speak to you that's biblical right so one night that Bible study said God's always at his work pray that he would show you who he's already working with around you so I was a professor in Florida the next morning I was a new Christian I didn't think God would do a thing with that I had no idea how big God was gonna work the next day I go down this hall of offices and this woman says you come here I dreamed about you last night my brain immediately goes all I'm for sure that has nothing to do with prayer prayed last night okay so I sit down in her office and she wants me to hear her dream and I won't tell you the whole long dream but here's the long and short of it she and I went to Washington DC together I was leading tour groups and some voice in her head kept saying you see that lady what she says you need to hear and where she goes you need to go she can't keep up with me so she gets in a cab and the cab pulls right up next to me and she tries to get out and the doors are locked and she's beating on the doors screaming what she says I need to hear and where she goes I need to go she looks at me and she says what do you think about that I thought I worked with this lady for four years I don't know anything about her personally that can't have anything to do with my prayer and so I went back to my office I go home that night I I tell the story to Mike oh I'm sure that has nothing to do with my prayer right three days later she comes marching down the hall to my office slams the door sits down need a knee with me and says I don't think you understand I've been praying about personal relationship with Jesus and I think he's sending me to you I'm like whoa hit me upside with a two-by-four this lady's seeking Jesus now I'm in this really atheist environment my boss is atheist she's getting rid of any Christian right I'm almost afraid to talk about Jesus and I'm thinking I have no idea how do you ban July's I'll just ask her question so like did you ever go to church as a kid have you ever read Bible she looks at me and she says well 10 years ago when I was in law school in Europe I joined the Mormon Church I'd worked with this woman for years I had no idea she was an inactive Mormon but God knew that and he knew that if she was coming to Jesus she was gonna have to sort the doctrinal stuff that I was just sorting and just a little farther ahead of her she and her husband eventually came to Jesus it was about a year and a half got baptized they're very solid now in the Lord but I trust that God is at work with people around you and it may not be that dramatic but he will connect you with people who need you and in this area Mormons need to hear what you know right no one ever told me all right witnessing to Mormons has two components first you're gonna use your mind which means you're gonna use your scriptures and Isaiah God says come let us reason together use your mind test the spirits experiment question right that's the God we know the God of Mormonism does not invite those kind of things but when talking to a Mormon you're going to both have a mind component and hopefully you'll have an emotional or heart component as well let me ask you this question when's the last time you told someone about your salvation and it took you to tears when's the last time you describe to somebody that before and after Jesus got ahold of your life and it brought you to tears don't you think that's a positive part of your testimony it certainly is in a Mormon environment because they believe that hyper-emotional ISM means that the Holy Spirit's at work right why can't we have an emotional component to our testimonies as well yeah but we're gonna do the mine thing - I love these scriptures one who wonders from the way of reasoning will rest in the Assembly of the Dead engage your brain right the Bible is very clear we're supposed to engage our brain in faith here are just some secular quotes from John F Kennedy too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought so part of what you're gonna do with your Mormon friends is walk them through this reasoning process the trouble of most people is that they think with their hopes our fears and wishes rather than with their minds and of course we've all heard this one now this is a Mormon scripture how do you tell if something's true in Mormonism if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you therefore you shall feel that it is right so sometimes you can reason all day with the mind stuff with the Mormon and if they have some kind of emotional connection none of that matters now doesn't that seem odd that would kind of shut down your mind and faith and only use the emotional we literally in Mormonism called it blind faith I was to follow the Prophet blindly not to second-guess or necessarily even think it through so you're going to need to let them know the Christianity you can use your reasoning powers in right okay that's actually my can I have about a dozen presentations that we do when I do this when I always do Andy's testimony how many here knew Randy Andy Poland out of Mormonism in this congregation last time we were here he and I had and Mike had dinner on Saturday night after we spoke four days later he was no longer on this earth we thank God for Andy and his strong testimony he knew the Scriptures really well he has a wonderful testimony on YouTube that you can look up called Fross prophet andy poland and he tells how in Mormonism feelings took him a wrong direction and he eventually learned that he could not trust his feelings he also had to engage his brain and he did eventually leave Mormonism and go into ministry now I was surprised leaving Mormonism to read some of these scriptures wait a minute I can't use feelings the heart is deceitful above all things out of the heart come evil thoughts one of them listed is false testimony and I thought you mean I can stand at the pulpit weeping and that might be not true that was a huge AHA for me and sometimes we just don't see it but I always think about Paul you know he went introduced to gospel to the Galatians you know years later years later they they started slipping away and so he wrote an epistle a letter to them explaining you know what they should continue to believe and it's amazing and all the Christians should know this is that you know in chapter 1 Paul states that if I or an angel comes before you and he states it twice this is how important it is if I or an angel comes and teaches you another gospel don't listen run push that person away even myself you know what I've testified to Christ if I come back in 20 years and I'd say something else don't listen to me and we need to do the same thing we need to not go by feelings nothing wrong you can have a testimony of feelings but it's got to be backed up by the word okay when the feelings contradict the Word of God you may have a problem there that's your test okay and John states it so well in first John you know he states you know we must test all things so when we're looking at something where we'll you know you know doing this if it doesn't reconcile with the Scriptures I mean what you're going to do maybe okay but you can't say it's from God and that's the warning in in some way our Mormon friends have gotten so far off base and that because they've had one spiritual experience I've I've had many spiritual experiences in the LDS Church but then I realized it could be a count of counterfeit when I have used to be in the LDS Church and I would have people that would go to the LDS temple and they would do endowment work or baptisms for the dead for some you know great-great-great-grandfather or something like that and then they would have a vision of that person saying thank you test it with the Word of God is that something that's taller than the Bible no so is that really them or was that something else that they saw so just you know and you have to you have to know that they're sincere and what they've see and what they believe but it may not be correct according to the Word of God so how do you step into a conversation well great KOCO uses a tactic he calls Columbo tactics so you remember Columbo with this coat excuse me I just have one more question you know you're going to use questions and you're going to plant ideas through your questions this is not deception this is a very kind way to get someone else to rethink something right okay so you're going to ask genuine and innocent inquiry to stimulate thinking and since Mormons can be easily offended asking questions to address topics and conversation is a good way to be non-threatening Jesus used questions and scripture brilliantly so Columbo is a tool where you're gonna use questions and the Bible together and you're gonna avoid the landmines that offend folks but you want positive things that are gonna draw them to Jesus how many times have you told someone else about an answer that you had to prayer when's the last time God was even in your daily conversation see one of the things I didn't know from Christians was who your God was how he said you got saved how he literally showed up with you in freaky ways like that answer to my prayer and Mormons don't pray like you so when's the last time you prayed with a Mormon and just talk to God like you were having a conversation with them and that's really impactful because Mormons don't pray like that here's another thing when's the last time there was some amazing thing that happened like a healing and you shared that experience with Mormon do you know that most Mormons would say they don't know those things exist outside of the Mormon Church because they have the priesthood they have the direct line to God so just knowing that you had some kind of that experience that's powerful so Mike and I used to hike a lot and I had this problem with my right knee and literally one night I laid my hand on my knee and prayed and boom no more problem with my knee I had no idea God could do that kind of thing but then I need to tell somebody right because that came from God and it's not just for me to feel good so that someone else can know how big God is right and yet I think we Christians just don't open our mouths so we're gonna use a question similar to this and I'm gonna give you ten different subjects that your you'll want to have conversations with Mormons about how have you resolved the fact that the Mormon scripture teaches this but the jesus said the exact opposite in the Bible and when I say this to Mormons they'll say there's nothing in the Bible that Jesus said that's opposite Mormonism do you know what's in the Bible that might be opposite Mormonism well we're going to show you let's let's pass those handouts out so you're planting the seeds of the word you're presenting a dilemma those are only $50 a piece if you don't get one I would write this down it's called an LDS doctrine topical guide this is on the Adams Road ministry website you can download it free you can get the PDF it's 25 pages what are in those 25 pages 40 things that Mormonism teaches like there was a great apostasy you need to appear righteous you need to do baptism for the dead you're born a child of God you shouldn't be contentious man can see God there's marriage in the next life these are all things that Worman ism teaches 40 things Mormonism teachers and all the scripture in the Bible on that topic one of the things and Christians do this also is never just take one verse and drive that point okay Mormons do this very well they'll take one verse and then they'll you know go off in a different directions you know in 1st Corinthians chapter 15 you know Paul speaks so well thou shalt they do which are baptized for the dead if the dead rise not at all then why do we do baptisms for the dead that one verse they go off in a different direction and they built a hundred and 60 temples throughout the world what you always need to do is read a chapter before in a chapter after to get an understanding what the topic is about okay so do you know when somebody camps out or when your mormon friend camps out on this scripture like they'll talk about apostasy and I'll read the first part and I say see there's an apostasy you need to read the rest of it to see what happens okay and just like you know that verse on baptisms from the dead Paul when he speaks about it he was talking to a group of people he says what else shall they do which are bad but now he doesn't say we so he identifies very quickly and those are the questions you would need to ask you know somebody baptisms for the dead are not the Christians right what else so he explains it very well in the first part of the chapter because it's he's talking to a group of people who do not believe in a resurrection and then he takes it on in through the whole thing so so just always remember but here's a great one go ahead and read that one about the apocalypse so what I'm gonna do now is quickly give you ten topics that you can step into without the yes if the missionaries come to your door this is probably the very first one they're gonna bring up they're gonna teach you that after the original twelve apostles died their church went into a great apostasy an order were in other words the church that Jesus set up became corrupt right it disappeared from the earth after the Twelve Apostles died they call that the great apostasy and this is the verse that they use in King James it says let no one deceive you for that day will not come unless a falling away comes first or a rebellion comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed okay they only take the first part of that verse for that day will not come unless a falling away comes first so there they'll say this falling away happened when the Twelve Apostles died let's read the rest of that verse it says and the man of lawlessness is revealed who's the man of lawlessness no no now my friends in California think it's Trump but we don't have a biblical understanding of that yet but but anyway okay hurry the man of law yeah I'm afraid you're gonna get off into politics here we go who's the man of lawlessness the antichrist has the antichrist been revealed do we know who the Antichrist is no that's an and that day will not come unless the rebellion comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed so I'm assuming when the man of lawlessness is revealed there's going to be a falling away or rebellion happen at the same time right there if you just read the verse it refutes what Mormons say that that says and that's often the case with scriptures that they'll use now here is a wonderful one that refutes that teaching because it comes from the mouth of Jesus Matthew 16:18 on this rock I'll build my church and the gates of Hell won't prevail against it now wait a minute I will open the Bible and turn to Matthew 16:18 and hand it to the Mormon missionary and they're the experts on their faith and I'll say to them you're confusing me with this great apostasy idea because of something I read in the Bible do you mind reading it out loud to all of us and telling us what you think this means right I would say 9 times out of 10 they've never seen that verse they have no idea it's there and they don't know what to do with it because it exactly says the opposite of what Mormonism is teaching them now I don't do this to be unkind or to hammer just to bring to their attention that Jesus himself said something that appears to contrast Worman ISM right and then ask them how they would explain that or if they can explain that to me right because I don't know so what this guy does that you're looking at is give you tons of Scripture like that that refutes each of those Mormon teachings or Aleve gives you scripture to talk about when you're on that subject right yeah you know when I was you know back in the 80s when I was a ripe old age of 36 I became a high priest and you know I was very proud of that I mean at that point I'm a high priest in the LDS Church because of certain callings that you have men become high priests not realizing in the Bible there's only one high priest okay during the Old Testament they only had one high priest and now we only have one high priest and that is the man Christ Jesus who will never die who will hold that office forever and ever but see I didn't know that you know you know Hebrews you know chapter 1 2 1 it speaks so clearly the writer of Hebrews states that in past times God spoke to us through the prophets but in these last days he has now spoken to us through his son Christ Jesus or Jesus Christ so you know it goes on through Hebrews and it says you know he becomes our high priest and he sits at the right hand of God and so forth but a lot of the Mormon missionaries they will not know that a lot of them will sit there and their father might be a high priest you know you would say whoa so so is your dad a high priest well yes can you reconcile how that explains it because the Bible only speaks of one high priests he had to get them thinking so here's the question how have you resolved the fact that the LDS Church teaches there was a great apostasy of his church but Jesus himself said he would establish this church and the gates of hell would not prevail against it did Jesus not know what was going to happen is that mistranslated in the Bible you've got a problem and there are lots and lots of these so if I do this for a while with missionaries or with someone who's LDS they'll eventually maybe say to me well you know I don't trust the Bible you know in the beginning don't want to say that right we're on the same page we're all Christians that kind of stuff they might admit they don't believe the Bible and this is my next question write this one down then do you trust the words of Jesus and I've never had a missionary say no absolutely I trust every word of Jesus and guess what there are lots of him that hit against Mormonism and what do you do with that right and so if that's the case and they eventually tell you they don't trust the Bible there are plenty of verses that I have just given you on that handout or you can look out in the Bible that come directly from Jesus himself okay the second thing you're gonna have to deal with and talking to Mormons is the Word of God right they don't believe that the Bible is the Word of God only as far as it's translated correctly and sometimes it's not the corrupt Church took precious things out of it you know that's what the Book of Mormon says right so you're gonna have to deal at some point with whether the Bible is reliable and whether it's the Word of God the Bible I heard a pastor say once the Bible says 3,800 times it's the Word of God do you think God's trying to tell us something that it's reliable that it's sharper than any two-edged sword right okay okay every Christian I'm gonna make you practice this in a minute every Christian needs to be armed with the evidence that the Bible is reliable as someone asked you or hit against your Bible what would you say well we have 66 books 40 writers written over at least 1500 years and it's internally consistent that blew me away as a Mormon when I start reading the Bible Wow this is the same message over and over and over and it doesn't contradict each other Mormon scripture is very contradictory the Book of Mormon says one thing about God the doctrine covenant says there are three separate gods the Book of Mormon says polygamy is an abomination and makes God cry and the women cry right Doctrine and Covenants says polygamy is an eternal principle and will be lived during the millennium and in the next slide so in my Mormon scriptures how could you use your brain in faith because it's not internally consistent but I didn't know the Bible was cuz no one told me the Bible is perfectly internally consistent there is justice and mercy from Genesis to Revelation it's the same story you have an old law you have prophecies you have fulfillments you guys know the story you have more than five thousand eight hundred New Testament manuscripts that still exist in Greek alone if you're looking at those in other languages from like Aramaic maybe Egyptian from the Middle East of the time you have more than twenty five thousand now they're not all complete a lot of more fragments but let me tell you the average passage of Scripture we have 800 manuscripts with every passage of Scripture do you think if one of them was mistranslated or messed up we could find that out with 800 copies but do Christians know these things these are important things to know living in Worman territory I did not know that about the Bible No when told me I was just told it was corrupt 25,000 archeological digs that proved the people places events of the Bible actually happened do we have any from the Book of Mormon that's a good question a Christian can ask a Mormon you can tell them all of this evidence and then say surely you have this for the Book of Mormon to write the maps yeah how important how God has kept this word together honey use your mic yeah okay everybody's heard about that Alexander the Great okay well if you go back and study the manuscripts there's only like four manuscripts to talk about Alexander the Great and Alexander great lived what 300 BC when he did the events conquered you know the the known world at that point but these manuscripts are dated about 700 AD I mean it's a huge difference in time but we don't question that but we can compile the whole Bible with everything we have within you know second century and third century documents I mean I mean we even have you know a document of a John John 1:1 which is a 125 ad that individual fragment of that mark they think it's from the first century yeah so it's there it's the same thing I always teach my friends about well it says a you know man you know Shakespeare we all know about Shakespeare right we have no original manuscripts of Shakespeare they're probably the closest one is like three to four hundred years after his death so when I'm with my Mormon friends I said well did you ever go see Romeo and Juliet oh yeah oh that was wonderful I said yeah it's really pretty good but you know I really don't know if it's translated correctly because you see we don't have we don't have it there because they'll always go back well we don't have your original manuscripts same thing with the Book of Mormon we don't have any original manuscripts the closest one we have is the one that Joseph Smith has an 1830 and that's you know 1,400 years after the end of the time so we have a fourteen hundred year period between the end of the Book of Mormon time period you know 600 or 400 AD - when Joseph Smith came up with it in 1830 so that was when he start playing this game about the Bible is not reliable you just have to ask questions about well how many manuscripts you have on the Book of Mormon what time period and so forth yes there was just one the plates and they supposedly have gone back to heaven yes yeah so given the fact that there's linguistic historical archaeological plant animal DNA doctrinal and other evidence for the Bible and that it's overwhelming from sources that are both religious and secular do you have similar evidence for the Book of Mormon right you can ask that in a very kind way making the assumption that if it's true it should have these kind of things one of the things that overwhelmed me as I'm reading the Bible was it's as if God wants people to be saved he's made it overwhelming the evidence for the Bible is so much more than any other document out there and you can just go through everything nothing else has anything close to it and yet we need to be able to articulate our Word of God right I wish we had time we're not gonna okay the third thing you're going to get into with Mormon is that they believe in a living prophet and that the prophet of the Mormon Church is the one who speaks for God right in fact there are 15 men at the top of the Mormon Church that supposedly hear from and speak for God that would be the prophet his two counselors and the 12 apostles they're called prophets seers and Revelator's so this is one of the temple recommend questions in order to be a temple goer in the Mormon Church you have to sustain the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints as the prophet seer and Revelator and recognize him as the only person on the earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys okay but we have good scriptural evidence that big prophets are no longer needed since Jesus came to earth Luke 16:16 this is a great one the law and the prophets were until John the Baptist since then the good news of the kingdom is breached so in other words Jesus came and brought the gospel so we he doesn't need to talk through prophets anymore and that doesn't mean we don't have small be prophets but they're different from the Old Testament large P prophets okay and Hebrews 1:1 you referred to a minute ago long ago many times many ways God spoke to our fathers by the prophets but in these last days spoken to us by his son so if Jesus is really God and so wonderful and came to earth and spoke for himself and people wrote it down why do you need a prophet is he not able to say everything that needs to be said you know a lot of times when you you speak with your Mormon friends you know it you know I can't because I I was removed from the cross for thirty years to me the cross is very very important I mean that's where the work was done that's where we were saved and you get me talking about there Krauss what can we add to what Jesus did on the cross you know you have to really take it there what can I know she ate with God well Jesus did a lot on the cross but what can i ago she ate with God that I can add to that nothing I have nothing to take back to the cross except my belief in Jesus now he did it all it's not about me and my works it's all about him and the works that he's done for me amen that's that's that's really you know you need to get it because and in Mormonism the cross is not spoken of it's not talked about because in Mormonism the atonement happened in the Garden of Gethsemane and all they happened on the cross was his death he could've been run over by chariots and it's the same thing what happened but that the the thing about it talk to your Mormon friends about you know we don't worship the cross we revered across and go you know Paul speaks so clearly about this he says you know I boasts of nothing but of the cross of Jesus Christ okay I pick up my cross and carry just looking here about the references of the cross and I mentioned earlier you know for the preaching of the Cross is foolishness to a lot of people right but to Christians it's very very important to us so we're running short of time and I think we want to do Q&A so I'm gonna run through the other topics certainly at some point you want to talk about your Jesus Mormons are very offended typically if you say this is another Jesus but you certainly can bring up characteristics of your Jesus that will be different than the characteristics of their Jesus right without actually saying it this is the Jesus of Mormonism he was a spirit child of a heavenly father and a heavenly mother there might be seven several heavenly mother's he's the spirit brother of Lucifer but also you and me he atone in the garden not on the cross they don't talk as much about that anymore that certainly the first 10 prophets are so taught that it was a partial atonement because Jesus atonement did not cover all sins there are some unforgivable sins according to Mormon scripture the cross is not revered it teaches salvation by works and then if you've done in us works grace will kick in and this Jesus worked his way to godhood started out as a man and earned his godhood okay and then you know who the biblical Jesus is but many of those things are opposite right so at some point you'll want to talk about Jesus and then who is Heavenly Father to you the LDS teach that God has a body a flesh and bone as tangible as man's one day I was in the Mormon temple and it just hit me wow he can't be omnipresent if he's limited to a body started out as a spirit child became a man earned his godhood he's still progressing they have something called eternal progression father son in the Holy Ghost are three separate gods and the LDS deny the Christian Trinity and this God is married to a heavenly mother and perhaps several okay the God of the Bible is a spirit he's omnipresent omniscient omnipotent the God who has a body of flesh and bone who has to eat and sleep and maybe have sex is not the same God right you see how that brings limitations and he's not any of those three so how have you reconcile the fact that the God of Mormonism the God of the Bible are different they have different natures and they teach different ways to salvation okay there's the other crooks who is God and how do you get reconciled to him both of those things are different in Mormonism and then okay priesthood Mike was just talking about Hebrews read about the high priest Jesus is our only high priest and it's a non-transferable priesthood and yet Mormons have thousands of high priests I didn't know that Hebrews said there was just one and Jesus was it the next topic is how can Jesus teach two different ways to eternal life right the Jesus of Mormonism ask them about and use the term eternal life because there are two levels of salvation in Mormonism there's general salvation and there's eternal life eternal life is exaltation that means getting to the highest heaven and it has to be earned okay so use the term eternal life in the Bible eternal life is a free gift and Mormonism eternal life it's not a free gift it's something you earn by earning a temple recommend doing all these temple ordinances okay right in there missionary manual here is their definition of eternal life to live forever as families in God's present that's not a free gift that's something Mormons must these are just a few of the ordinances required in order to earn of course it's by grace you've been saved through faith not your works number eight is temples you know what as a Mormon I didn't know anything about the Old Testament temple read up on it what happened in the Old Testament temple well they had sacrificed this morning and evening slip a lamb throat right atonement for sin it was just a foreshadowing of what Jesus would do when he came so when Jesus came the temple veil was rent from top to bottom Mormons have put the temple veil back up have a veil in their temple and they have temples I thought the Mormon temple is just like the Old Testament temple but I never bothered to go read Leviticus it's not so that's a topic to have with it I was flipping channels one time it's a thing that men do I happen to just see I was a rerun or whatever but it was Donny and Marie was on some channel it might have been to view I don't know what it was but they were talking about you know eternal marriage and everything and Donny stated this he says what happens in a Mormon temple today is exactly the same ordinances that was practiced like in Kings Solomon's Temple ICO really you know I mean either he's lying or they just don't know okay but that's the thing you could ask your your Mormon friends you know they'll they'll say well what really happens in the Mormon temple day so we really can't talk about it cause it's sacred I mean you've probably heard that term before well in you know Jewish times when you know King Herod's temple King Solomon's Temple yes if you would you know if your Gentile and you got up to so close to the temple or past a certain line you know we've been on Temple Mount you know if you'd gone past this line here you then killed period okay it's not and you know they they protected their temple but we could read in the Old Testament exactly what they did there it's not secret okay it's sacred to them but we know what occurred there we can read it in the Bible today you know always love when well love the verse when you know Christ speaks about he says you know what I speak in your ear shout from the rooftops you know he was not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ when he was arrested and taken before the Pharisees then they asked Jesus what do you teach he said I've always taught openly don't ask me what I teach ask my disciples for there is nothing done in secrets it's always open that's the good news people about the gospel it's nothing we have to be ashamed that we can preach it out loud we can shout it from the rooftops we just need people to hear it we you we probably should tell you that Mormons use the same religious language as you they're gonna say I'm saved by grace Jesus died on the cross you're gonna go wow they're Christians - there's not one religious word between Mormonism and Christianity that have the same meaning their angel is not your angel their angel is a dead man who came back from the dead as an angel that's not an angel in the Bible there are all different species grace they'll say I'm saved by grace they love to say this now their grace is not your grace look at this right from their website divine grace is needed by every soul however there's always a however grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient hence the ex nation it's by grace we are saved after we can do that's not your grace if you look up in Mormon encyclopedia the definition of their grace is an enabling power God gives you so you can live the commandments and you have to do that to earn right all right and then the last what do you think grace made we're Paul meant when he said that grace right is free and then the last thing is cross I prom I pray I I believe that God placed you right here for such a time as this people say to me our Mormons really leaving the faith do you know that some of the estimates are as much as 300,000 leaving per year now talk to them every day I could open my phone right now and just read the emails to you that I've just received today they are leaving leaving leaving leaving many they were told they had the same God as you the same Jesus as you right they're taught your lessers and their graters you have a little the truth and you have the Bible in it's corrupt and they had three perfect scriptures on top of it so when they leave Mormonism do they ever think to come to you for answers not typically because you're not telling them how awesome your God is and how reliable your Bible is I pray that this week God will bring each of you somebody who's seeking Him we have about 10 minutes for Q and a yes they're very formal in their prayer he asked about Mormon prayer they used thee and thou and they have a certain way they have to do it dear Heavenly Father I thank thee for this this this and this I ask thee for this this this and this in the name of Jesus amen that's to be your prayer pattern Christian might go Oh Lord I've had the most crazy day you just shut up I kidding but that is really impactful to a Mormon and they might say to you well it's like you know this guy right the personal relationship is very different from this formerly throwing up your works that you might be saved you remember Fiddler on the Roof Debbie yeah you know I just loved in that hell he just God this just speaks to him and that's the way we should he's he's our papa he's our daddy he's there to help us and he's reaching down okay you know it's amazing how man thinks in Mormonism that you can become a god well God can become a man but man can never become a god right amen that's that's the whole difference when we think of your God and when you explain your God to Mormons how high he is he existed before the universe was ever created he's outside of time he's outside of space he's outside of material you know the Bible itself it says in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth that verse itself contradicts everything that we were taught in the Mormon temple which we were getting the most enlightened teachings in Mormonism does that one verse so a couple more questions and then I will tell you one last wonderful story go ahead and then right behind you yeah yeah yeah only the holy spirit knows that but isn't that a wonderful opportunity but somebody's coming do you want to talk about God that's an open door that's like those missionaries knockin on your door and wanting to talk about God don't yell at him tell them they're in a court cult and get off your doorstep my goodness God brought him right to you right you say come on in the water's fine the water the Word of God the water and you see them chocolate chip cookies yes right right how would I address that sometimes they have to logically walk them through the families forever thing okay think of this there God has a body of flesh and bone so he can only be one place at one time so a good Mormon man's gonna go to the temple and he's gonna earn his godhood he's gonna have his family around him and he's gonna live with God well wait God can't live on this planet and this planet at the same time in this planet at the same time if he's not omnipresent and he has a body of flesh and bone that combines him right sometimes just thinking through these things logically here's the other thing about families forever your kids grow up if they're righteous Mormons they're gonna earn their godhood have their own planets and Mike and I are gonna be over here on this planet how's that family living together well this this way I always explained that okay when Lynn and I were LDS we'd be a holy righteous team okay we have our own planet and we'd be raising our own spiritual children and our children have their own planets but on Easter and Thanksgiving and Christmas we'll get in our galactic van and go across the universe and visit them until they say well dad it's nice to have you need to go back home so then I would go back okay well you know we would probably see an RV today but go cry yeah so let's say it does not make sense okay it sounds so nice about eternal families but until you put it into Mormonism concept that yeah okay my children will have their own planet and my planets over here and where's God well he's on a planet near Kolob that's Mormon scripture and used to try to reconcile this it just I just tell people says look we're part of the family of God once we become believers of Jesus we become children of God and there is only one family okay we are now adopted into that family and we will be together at this great feast okay with Jesus taking the bread and the wine and the food and the fruit and whatever we have there and that's the family of God do you have to get away from the concept of a husband and wife and children it's one family it's a much bigger family and my dad who's a Baptist will be there and my uncle who's a Presbyterian will be there and we were all unite and be one happy family the other thing I have to help Mormons understand when they transition out because they lose their family so a lot of times right is that there's this huge family of God and God can replace that mother-daughter relationship with a mother from the body of Christ and it might be a wonderful relationship very emotionally and mentally healthy right with someone that also knows the Bible and can pray with you and those kind of that's very foreign to Mormons because biology is everything and yet think about that that's making your family an idol between you and God isn't the point to love God and worship God right is family really to be an idol above God other questions yeah I don't have my glasses on like that's people waving out there any other questions here very good question yes sir yeah Oh usually to tell my wife what to do but then he asked him what were his duties as I okay my duties as a high priest in in in the LDS Church we used to meet as a body of high priests okay we had a group of high priests and we had elders and but God just recently changed his mind on that so there's no longer a group of high priests the high priests and the elders meet together as one body to get these days I'll have to go to an LDS chapter a chapel sometime and see what it's like but we would meet as a group and we would consider ourselves religious righteous holy men and because we were high priests but you become a high priest due to the nature of your called in the LDS Church so if you're called as a bishop or in the bishopric which is like an assistant pastor you have to be a high priest obviously if you are a high priest group leader in the LDS Church which no longer exists I guess you'd have to be a high priest okay if you served as a state president which would be over like twelve congregations of wards individual chapels like this church okay you'd have to be a high priests or if you served on the High Council you had to be a high priest so it was only given to men in relationship to their calling okay so I when I was 36 iris became a high priest because I was called to the High Council okay and then I traveled to different congregations and work with bishops and so forth at that point but you just don't become a high priest because it's a fun thing to do and you never asked to be a high priest I like to be a high priest could I've no it doesn't happen that way so oh I wish we could go through some of those though we don't have time and I will close by telling you a story that happened in the last month this is how God is on the move we were in Utah a couple of weeks ago right before we got to Utah we had the first ex-mormon Christian conference in Salt Lake ever it was awesome well three days before the conference I hear from a woman in Springville right down by Provo this is her story my 18 year old daughter got saved and started going to a Christian Church she's very LDS her husband's at Brigham Young my daughter got saved I was livid at 19 she got cancer at 20 she died so last October 30th this young woman of 20 died the mother goes through her effects fines my book unveiling grace and a personal message for me the mothers live it that that apostate took her daughter out of the church right I had nothing to do with it I know who met her daughter someone else gave her the book probably had me write her a message the mom trashes the book then she's thinking maybe I should try to figure out why my daughter would have made that decision so she starts investigating biblical faith and her faith so here she is early September and she's questioning her faith and now she wants a copy of the book to read so she gets a hold of me I'm thinking wow I think God's at work here we just happened to be headed to Salt Lake for this ex-mormon Christian conference why don't you just come I'm thinking she'll never come right she shows up on Friday night stays the whole time comes back on Saturday goes to all the sessions one week later she shows up at an Adams Road event our kids ministry that we were at in a little Church in Springville Utah the woman shows up and she says to me I want to tell you a story on the way home from the conference I went to my daughter's grave and I gave the rest of my life to Jesus I have no idea what will happen to my marriage but I'm committed you know the Holy Spirit just reaches in and saves people whether we're willing to step into it or not but he's doing that to Mormons right and left right now you know how you hear those wonderful stories about Islam people having visions of Jesus and dreams of Jesus I don't know if the Lord is calling a remnant out or if this has always gone on I've only been a Christian about 10 years but I but believe me he is moving through the Mormon people so please tell them about your Jesus we give him all the glory amen thank you for caring [Applause]

Channel: Redeemer Bible Church

Views: 18,501

Rating: 4.7020059 out of 5

Keywords: Jesus, Bible, Redeemer Bible Church, Arizona, Gilbert, Mesa, Bible Church, Truth, Understanding, God, Mormon, Mormonism, Teaching, Education

Id: okUiA1dmtvg

Length: 86min 26sec (5186 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 11 2018