Dr. James White: Witnessing to Mormons

[Music] why let's at least let this be a benefit people walk for people-watching why did you start coming out to the temple why such an aggressive ministry the the first time we came out in 1983 my wife and I came out of the back with Kawasaki for 40 the 60 ended at Country Club and I sat at the Arby's over there and I looked at this sea of people and I was like oh my goodness and there was there was no outreach going on all right so the next year when we came out we had Wally talk with us and I don't know if you ever I don't think you ever met Wally did you it sounds like a familiar name I know he wrote it he had a book called on the frontlines witnessed in Norman and it was one of the best one of the best most practical and had about I mean he was aggressive he was really he was the last person to die in the Los Angeles Riots do you did tell me about the witness to the to the right rioters and they beat him into a coma and he was the last person to die yeah as a martyr in those in those riots so that was 84 85 as an evangelism project at Grand Canyon college my senior year we arranged we printed the Mormon Jesus tract we came out here with walkie-talkies we we had that was corner one that was corner two we had Corner five down there we had it all I had to turn in a map as to how you you know cover the whole place and that started years and years of ministry out here really until the streets creatures right up and started you know and and I was them I was the magnet for them you were you became the target not behind the target yeah yeah and that was that was the problem so man for years and years and years for my kids this is this is where you are in the week before Easter oh yes was standing on this corner there's my kids back there yeah yeah and so summer may try to make it out this evening anyway so so yeah it's just that's what started it and I'm awful glad you guys have been able to continue it because evidently you're a much nicer looking man or something they don't hate you well okay so this is really important last week there was a well-known LDS blogger and a writer she actually just published a book cuz it's in Deseret bookstores across the country she started watching some of our live streams and some are videos yeah she came to Christ have been in conversation with her so Mormons are watching and so it'd be good I think to communicate to them why it's important for us to be out here why why do we come out here to talk to them because they're Christian too they believe in Jesus there's the name Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints right so why such an aggressive you know form of evangelism why not just you know have a barbecue why show up at their place of worship well I'm not sure I'd call this an act of worship right obviously the whole reason that we've been out here for all these years the reason that any of us move is because we need to know the true Jesus and unfortunately as I was just having conversations with people about this very subject the Jesus the god of Scripture the Jesus of Scripture the gospel of Scripture is fundamentally different than the god jesus and message of the LDS Church and so as a as a result there's a there's a need and unfortunately there's a lot a lot of conversation going on between Christians and Mormons these days the fact is that the Bible warns us against idolatry right it warns us against false Jesus's it works against a false gospel and when you compare what the Bible teaches with what Mormonism teaches on who God is who Christ is what the gospel is those are things we always focused on upon her you know we'd address other things we'd address issues like the first vision or the Book of Mormon things like that but they are always meant to just be avenues to get back to those key issues right yeah who is God who is Christ what is salvation and for the Mormons in the in the audience might be might be attending might be listening this a later point in time the biblical God is a creator of all things in jeremiah chapter 10 god told his people tell the people the gods it did not create the heavens and the earth will perish from under the heavens and from the earth the Mormon God did not create ex nihilo he that he can only organize pre-existing matters the Bible tells you that that God will some day pass away because he's not the true God and that's the foundation of everything else the Jesus the Jesus is gonna be presented here is not the Jesus the Scriptures because he did not create all things the gospel is not the men could become gods if the guy became a man the person of Jesus Christ these are all massively important issues and it's wonderful we get the opportunity to actually address these things with jokes but it was a lot easier back when you were young and I was younger yeah to get more in focus to stop and talk that's right yeah yeah they would surround you circles you'd have conversations the whole nine yards teenagers know in their theology and taking you to task go into the Scriptures wanted to argue with you and that was actually refreshing for them to say you don't know God you're not part of the true church now it's very very different okay so here's something people say and they maybe even saying in a live stream right now at this pageant this is the King James portrayal of Jesus right so we're just walking through scenes of the Bible there's a cemani garden Gethsemane is not quite the same right unless they've changed that since last time I was out here well they have been filling in was a point where they were just member just kind of reading straight through now they've started inserting more and more narration where they're saying and this is why people need to be baptized you know those sorts of things so um but okay so answer that if you would somebody says but this is just Jesus he's dying on a cross he's rising from the dead why are you opposed to that message it's it's an incomplete message and it's and it's a deceptive message okay because it's it if if it is trying to build upon the idea that people already understand what these things are but they don't realize the actual message of Mormonism they don't actually recognize Mormon Church claims to have the only priesthood only their baptism is valid that they're Jesus is a very different Jesus and the Christians if they're if they're playing on what we already know without giving the specifics I find that deceptive right I think you need to be I it used to be up front right back and back from the olden days the first time I saw this there was stuff that Adam and the Melchizedek Priesthood an exaltation of godhood and and it was Mormon right as in Brigham Young Mormon yeah guys in beard Mormon and you said people actually you you would catch people walking away before right was it with people like leaving because they were shocked by it in terms of well no my heard somebody tell me it seemed like people were like this is not no I never had anybody come up to me at that but you back then it was primarily for the Mormons yeah so it was very Mormon right now it's meant to you know you'll hear Christian hymns being sung I heard holy holy holy once yeah yeah and it's like that is that is Blessed Trinity you talk about a cultural appropriation that's all right so it would be good we talk about that like the right god the right gospel yeah if you if you have the wrong God the wrong gospel you're wrong enough to lose your soul you don't have the right God to worship you don't have the right means to God so what's that what's the big issue with Mormons in terms of the gospel and this is again for those latter-day saints that are watching this right now and say what is the difference we believe in grace you must be saved by grace so for all you can do after all you can do so talk about that because that's an important distinction people have to understand no Joseph Smith had no concept of what the biblical gospel was he even added to the Joseph Smith translation when in describing God in the in the Bible God subscribes to God who justifies the ungodly you know I faith because of what Christ has done by grace he justifies in gather Joseph Smith changed that and says the not justify the ungodly yes sir did the word not be Christ he could not begin to conceive and understand right of the true nature of grace yes Mormonism does not understand that man is dead in his sin that man is a rebel sinner man Mormonism views that use man as as this individual who is who is generally good I mean Adams fall for examples of fall upward in Mormonism right that is not the biblical teaching but any stretch the imagination that's not why Jesus Christ came to die he didn't come to die to just simply make it possible that we can be freed from Adam's sin and be responsible for our own salvation as the Grand Richard said in a marvelous work and wonder yeah totally different message and a totally different goal we're not being saved to become God's we are being saved to be human beings who are now united with Christ and are functioning the way that God would have us to function that is we are glorifying him will never cease to be creatures and unfortunately in Mormonism since there is just a there's just a spectrum there's a there's a you've got God men and angels different levels of exaltation no these are totally separate categories of being in the biblical revelation so everything's different even though we use may the same words the whole goal and the whole essence of this video to do that's right so from a Christian perspective they the main thing the big thing is in terms of salvation peace with God now complete forgiveness of sins a right saying before God clothed in his righteousness so that I have peace with God there really isn't a consistent and defined doctrine of justification in Mormons right that's a difficult thing it's very hard I mean you you'll read one general authority another general Authority they're all over the map yeah and yet it's the central message of of Paul's epistle to the Romans yes but it's very clear that the Joseph Smith did not understand the message of Paul's epistle is wrong yes on many many levels yeah so Mormons will often talk to Christians about there's a general resurrection we're all raised in and then there's these three levels of heaven and there's exaltation so for that for the latter-day Saint they say we're saved by grace after all we can do and you must be obedient to the laws and ordinances of the gospel and so for the for the latter day say the goal is in terms of salvation ultimate exaltation and it is becoming a God and Goddess of your own planet one day happen to the god of this world and that's the goal right so in terms of when we're speaking to a Mormon when we say salvation we're thinking peace with God today repentance and faith union with Christ His righteousness credited to us as a gift our sin has been given to him exhausted completely God's wrath exhausted as God really can't have wrath because he was never a man lived another plant had to go through this process that's right that's another important aspect of it right and at just that point that's important it's fascinating Joseph can't understand how can you say that God justifies the ungodly that's got to come out because from any human perspective I mean God God says it himself he says the one who declares the wicked righteous is an abomination if you say how does God do it exactly if you don't understand that the free gift of God in Jesus Christ you understand that the son himself gives himself you understand that that this is God giving himself upon Calvary's tree if you don't understand all of that that's right since you don't have a finished sacrifice starts in the garden there's no true union with Christ as there's no wrath of God being fulfilled all of us if you don't understand any of that then you're not gonna stand how God justifies the ungodly while maintaining his own holiness that's right because your God isn't actually holy anyway since my self is redeemed that's right he's still growing in knowledge well according to so and here's the point is if you don't have a biblical doctrine of sin you can't have a biblical doctrine of grace and Mormons don't have a biblical doctrine of sin just how radical our our our corruption is and I was talking to a latter-day Saint last week holding up a sign drove here from Washington to come and talk to us he actually said near the end of our conversation he said that he had no sin that day oh he had not sinned at all and and I thought to myself this is I said to my said I think that you really don't understand the holiness of God and His law if you can exactly if you think you love God perfectly today with your heart soul mind and strength and your name as yourself as a matter of fact you just did sin because you lied so so if there's a latter-day saint watching this right now what do you want to communicate to them what is the essence of the gospel message why we're here I was just taught to explain to a latter-day Saint the fact that I said you know when I met with my first two more missionaries in 1982 elders Reed and Reese when we met twice on a Monday and a Thursday at the end of that last meeting I didn't know all the things I know nothing now about Mormonism but I knew that what we believed was fundamentally contradictory and different and I said to them you know someday you're gonna need to know a God V God that does not change your God has changed he may change tomorrow the very way that you have peace with him may change it's changed in Mormonism mm-hmm you once had to engage in polygamy now you don't who knows what's gonna happen in the future Supreme Court decision yeah you have a God who has changed and who can change again someday you need to know the God who does not change and when that happens I hope that you'll remember me or the God will bring you into contact with someone else like me who will proclaim to you the true God who says before me there is no God formed there have been enough for me before the mountains were brought forth or withouts form the earth in the world even from everlasting to everlasting thou art that's the only true God now if your God did not create everything if your God became a god he's not God yeah he doesn't exist he can't save you the God who sent His Son Jesus Christ into this world is the only one that can bring you salvation and that's not the God of justice and so if a Mormon says to us when they hear that message okay I see that this is not the biblical Jesus I see that this is definitely not the biblical God what must I do to be saved what's the what's the message to do I do I need to now find the right church do I need to make sure I'm linked up with the right type of Christian you certainly need to find well obviously the other thing that needs to be referenced which we have talk about too much and that is the fact that there is only one divine revelation from God yes they're not many and the revelation that has stood the test of time is called the Bible not too vocal Mormon doctrines for a great price and when you know I remember a former missionary that talked to once he said you know once I became a Christian I started looking at my Bible that I carried when I was a missionary and I had all this stuff marked in it but all the stuff that actually talked about what it really means to know God and the truth it's like I had never seen failed there yeah so what you need is you need the Word of God and yes you do need a good solid grounded church and good solid ground and Christian Reformed Baptist that's one group I know some really strong OPC folks that's right like that's right they're doing their thing and but but the important thing is to find a church where the Word of God is honored honored as the Word of God yes where it's the center of the message and the center of what defines the Christian faith and you need to bow the knee to the true and living Jesus Christ cast yourself completely upon him holding on to nothing else yes though if you're holding on to anything else trusting in any of your own goodness or anything else no it is either all gonna be that true Jesus Christ or nothing at all so are you saying that it's not a matter of certain steps I need to take right now I need to work my way to understanding enough about this biblical Jesus like tonight how do I have peace with God is it do I need to self completely and totally upon him say you are my maker my Creator I recognize that I am sinful in your sight there is nothing I can do you are truly God I am truly man I want to believe the Gospel as it's revealed in your scriptures embrace him now and then begin looking for that that church because I realized sometimes that can be that can be a process don't hold off your peace with God while you're trying to find something it may be difficult in our modern day to be able to locate yeah yeah peace with God and then all the rest comes okay we'll get settled awesome thank you

Channel: Apologia Studios

Views: 60,126

Rating: 4.7891212 out of 5

Keywords: Jeff Durbin, apologia studios, apologia church, hidden camera mormon temple, mormon tabernacle choir, I am a mormon, southpark mormon, Joseph Smith false prophet, book of mormon, mormon documentary, james white, dr james white witnessing to mormons, mormon temple, apologia mormon debate, intense debate with a mormon, james white mormon debate, james white mormon, jeff durbin mormonism

Id: ie9pv-Td0ko

Length: 17min 14sec (1034 seconds)

Published: Sat Jul 14 2018

Reddit Comments

[u/mlokm]

Good video, thanks for sharing.

[u/AdmiralKurita]

Go James White, truly one of the best debaters and presenters of Reformed theology! (For some reason, I have been consuming more his media than that of fellow Muslims.) Certainly, one of the best champions of the work and power of God, as opposed to the work and power of lost and arrogant men. I really don't know about the 1689 stuff.

What do the people here think about the Eastern Christianity notion of "theosis", since the linked video talked about the notion of Jesus' death making it possibility that one could become "gods".

[u/Flyfoxpro]

He did.