Talking to the LDS Woman, by Becky Walker

okay so we're talking about women today I guess I'm the token female this year all right chip just kidding what I do is I'm gonna ask Keith is my husband my lovely assistant haha to pass these to pass these outlines out but it's kind of like in school you know or they say don't turn the page or whatever I don't want you looking at the end until it's time because we're gonna look at that together okay so obviously I the outline is mostly blank because I want you to take notes I'm a teacher at a college so I'm very you know you need to take notes that's just the way it is so I thought I'd provide that for you so you can take some things home that are hopefully valuable let's see what else was I gonna say oh we do have t-shirts our green repent or repeat t-shirts if you're interested we have them up here at front afterwards just to kind of tell you about our ministry my husband and I founded evidence ministries in 1995 I believe we are missionaries to Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons we live in San Antonio Texas and we have three great kids and they're not here they're not going to come til they're old enough to participate and nobody is yet so oh well I get to come and not be mommy for a while also so we are our ministries in San Antonio we do things other places too like I said with Jehovah's Witnesses as well and just a little bit about us in our life I homeschool and I also teach part-time at a college in San Antonio in the music department so I kind of get to be in all kinds of different worlds so it's fun it keeps me kind of schizo sometimes but whatever you know I survive okay so the topic for today is talking to LDS women some of this is going to be specifically about women but some of it is really going to apply across the so and and I kind of sensed yesterday that chip didn't want me to spend a little bit of a good time on impossible gospel stuff and there any of you who haven't really ever learned the impossible Gospels I see a lot of new faces is it kind of new to some of you guys okay well for those of you who had where it's not just sorry and you know take a nap or whatever and come back and when we get to something else that's fine I understand but the the very first thing on your outline is what kind of condition does our heart need to be in because chip said it earlier that if we're going out there and we're not prayed up and we're not ready to be there or there's some junk in our life or going on in our world we need to get rid of it so I wanted to look at Matthew 9 36 through 38 with you guys most of today I will be using the King James just because we need to respect our audience and use what they use but for some of these passages they just don't we read cry quite the same way that I like them too I like the NIV so that's what I'm going to be using he says it's the non inspired version but I don't care I still like it so Matthew 9 36 through 38 if this isn't a passage about Manti I don't know what is when he saw the crowds he had compassion on them because they were harassed and helpless like sheep without a shepherd then he said to his disciples the harvest is plentiful but the workers are few asked the Lord of the harvest therefore to send out workers into his harvest field so you know if if you just take a minute sometime and just stop and pray and look out over the crowds of people in the streets another fun thing to do is if you really want to pray over pray this passage over these people you know put a jacket on cover up your cross your t-shirt whatever and go up to the side of the temple and ask permission to go up that little walk to that's to the top of the temple they'll let you and get a picture you know when it's full of people and it's just this overwhelming Wow all of these people who are just sheep without a shepherd the harassed they're helpless they're they're their victims they're not the enemy as you guys all know so that passage just really means a lot to me and to me it helps us to get us in the right frame of mind with who we're dealing with and that they're just really suffering and you'll see that some more as we go on so and also the the funky Greek word there I don't not a Greek person Rodney is but I can't even pronounce it but when you when you get your concordance out and you study little word studies and things that were there with how Jesus felt about the people when it said that he had compassion it's it's referencing his bowels it's referencing Jesus's bowels and how they were churning basically because of how broken he was for the people and again if that's not a picture of you being gripped to your core I don't know what is so just just think about that that's how Jesus feels about them also I wanted to have you guys turn to Ecclesiastes chapter 5 verses 1 & 2 the reason why I want to look at this passage is for two reasons because I know there's a lot going on here when we're in Manti there's people to talk to everywhere you can spend hours and hours just sitting around you know with great fellowship but please make sure that every day you're taking a little bit of time to just sit and listen to God with nobody else around you know if you got a find a stall in the bathroom to get away from everybody or whatever just do it and I really like this passage because of just how clear that is guard your steps when you go to the house of God go near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools who do not know that they do wrong do not be quick with your mouth do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God God is in heaven and you are on earth so let your words be few that's a good passage that I like to think about a lot when I when I think about how I'm gonna prepare my heart to go out there let my words be few Lord you tell me what I need to know shame Ecclesiastes 5 1 & 2 yeah just kind of chew on that a little bit today Lord you speak I'll shut up you know let me hear what you have to say so anyway one other one other story I'd like to share that that helps me also think about what our heart needs to be like before the Lord is something that happened and very early in my Christian walk I was not raised as a Christian but when I got saved I was also you know I've always been involved with music and I had just auditioned and got to do this cool thing where I was going overseas to sing with these people it was a Christian thing and I was on and I lived in Hawaii I grew up in Hawaii so if you guys talked to Polynesians and you know and you want to send him my way I'd love it Rosanna and I are best friends in Hawaii in high school so we both love talking to him Tongans Samoans whatever just send them our way we can speak speak Hawaiian stuff with them but and anyway so I was on the plane from Honolulu going to California where we were gonna do our rehearsals before went overseas and you know I was less than a year old in the Lord and pretty pretty psyched because my life had been very different before I got saved and things were drastically different now and so I was on the plane feeling pretty good about myself you know hey I got into this singing thing and I'm gonna go sing for the Lord and people are gonna get saved and I'm gonna look good you know all that kind of stuff especially as girls we like to do that kind of stuff in our heads with ourselves and the this is this is back in the days when they used to serve food on the airplanes remember that what they like bring you a tray and you had utensils you know that could possibly be weapons a little plastic forks whatever anyway and and with with the meal was a package of salt the little white things you know that are perforated and I thought oh yeah I'm gonna be the salt of the world thanks Lord for my little encouragement you gave me through this little salt package and then I turned it over and it said break here and I thought oh I guess I'm not such hot snot anymore it and and that's actually what ended up happening on that trip I was I was very broken and very humbled for the people that we were ministering to and it wasn't it that was the first big lesson for me of this is not about me anymore my life up to that point had been very much about me very very selfish very out-there very look at me I'm so great whatever in my in my head anyway never would admit that to anybody but that just really I'll never forget that break here so when you go out there tonight you might pray that break your lord whatever it takes just just for one soul to to be ministered to so anyway I want to go into the next part there on the outline number two what is going on in the heart of the LDS woman I have a website article there - a an article that you you look in the title you see the word prozac and that's there for a reason there's all kinds of statistics and articles and things out there about Utah's high rate of prozac use and and specifically with the women and that is a very long article but it's intriguing to read and I have it with me if anybody wants to glance through it I've got things highlighted whatever but if you really want to learn a little bit more about this topic and spend some time studying it it's a it's a really good thing to look at also I wanted to show you a picture when I was trying to to research a little bit more and to get ready for this I found this this was from an ABC news article and to me this just this is what we're fixing to talk about what do you say I saw that and it just about made me drop my teeth but that's that's what we're dealing with and and I personally I find it a lot harder to talk to LDS women than I do LDS men because of things like this I I see more glassy eyes from the women than I do from the men and part of it is drug-induced and part of it is just you know mind control induced but this is this is the picture of what we're what we're facing with when we when we get to the two women who ok pray for me I can't look at that picture without that Greek word happening you know ok so what I wanted to do from here is there's a there's a lady who is a friend of mine in San Antonio she's a former Mormon she described her experience as a Mormon woman in this way she said that that being a Mormon woman was like being on a pedestal with a barbed wire fence around it with alligators down in the water surrounding this pedestal so try to picture that in your mind but the pedestal then is a prison because she has to stay there she has to stay on this pedestal or she will be destroyed from the alligators all around in the water so these women are really trapped on this pedestal the pedestal is not a pretty pretty thing because this is what it does to them the pedestal is a prison so remember that these women are prisoners and let that help more with your prayer of of break here on a little bit lighter note now is when you know what I need an outline can you give me an outline they now is what I want to have you turn to the the last two pages of what I hand it out just to lighten this up just a little bit because I know that picture is kind of heavy I want you to read along with me on something this little poem you can read at the top where it came from but this was actually you know from LDS an LDS source so I'm not making fun this is this is their stuff but read along with me look at me look at me look at me now you could do what I do if you only knew how I study the scriptures one hour each day I bake I upholster I scrub and I pray I always keep all the commandments completely I speak to my little ones gently and sweetly I help in their classrooms I sew all they wear I Drive them to practice I cut all their hair I memorize names of the General Authorities I focus on things to be done by priorities I play the piano I bless with my talents my toilets all Sparkle my checkbooks all balanced each week each child gets a one-on-one date I attend all my meetings on time never late I'm taking a class on the teachings of Paul but that is not all oh no that is not all I track my bad habits till each is abolished our t-shirts are ironed my toenails are polished our family home evenings are always delightful the lessons I give are both fun and insightful I do genealogy faithfully - it's easy to do all the things that I do I rise each day early refreshed and awake I know all the names of each youth in my steak I read to my children I help all my neighbors I bless the community too with my Labor's I exercise and I cook menus gourmet my visiting teaching is done the first day I also go to do it for someone who missed hers it's the least I can do for my cherished ward sisters a chark resolution chart resolutions and check off each goal I seek each lost lamb on my primary role I can home grown produce each summer and fall but that is not all oh that is not all I write in my journal I sing in the choir each day I write thank-yous to those I admire my sons were all Eagles when they were 14 my kids get straight A's and their bedrooms are clean I have a home business to help make some money I always look beautifully groomed for my honey I go to the temple at least once a week I change the cars tires I fix this things like I cried I grind my own wheat and I bake all our bread I how whole meals planned out six months ahead I make sure I rotate our two year's supply my shopping for Christmas is done by July these things are not hard it's good if you do them you can if you try just set goals and pursue them it's easy to do all the things that I do if you plan to work smart you can do them all - it's easy she said and then she dropped dead so again sort of funny but sort of not sort of awful but that is what you're dealing with when you're talking with these women so let's move on so why do they why do they get so mad have you guys had experiences out there with the women just being like a Hornet right they get mad because they have to it's their job okay because like chip said with the the elderly lady he was talking to last night they're supposed to want to just protect okay it's it's she's a mama bear what a mama bears do when you get anywhere near their cub you dead meat right you're toast you're a snack whatever so if you get near her babies you know especially if you're talking to teenagers she's gonna get mad and she's gonna come rescue them from your clutches you know whatever like we have horns or something but she has to do that because she is the spirit mama right that's the goal she wants to be the spirit mama of everybody here and there so and her eternity is dependent on that role she's got to have that role she's got to have her children sealed she wants to be happy in the afterlife so that is the reason why I think it's harder to get into conversations with women so if you get one you are blessed and handle her gently because again this is this is what you're dealing with how do you start okay I am NOT real smart keith is the smart he's the systematic logical I'm just sort of you know stuff I just pray that God uses my mouth somehow sometimes because it just I need him to but a couple of things that you can do to help things be a little easier don't think like you got to be this my chick out there you know coming up with the right thing to say just start asking them questions ask them about themselves ask them how they how long have been LDS how far back does your family go you know just get to know them on a personal level don't don't think it has to be this big sales pitch right off the bat I never do that I'm not good enough for that and and also this this is a really big lesson that there's a lot of advantages to working with Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons at the same time because you learn things that are different to each group but that you can feed off of one and off of each other and one of them that I've learned so thoroughly from from meeting over long periods of time with Jehovah's Witnesses is remain in the student role and that's harder to do when we're here on the streets of Manti but if you don't come at them especially with the women if you don't come at them as if you think you have all knowledge and all vast experience or whatever and you say teach me you know ask them to give you their testimony or something you may think well great that's crazy why do I want to hear their testimony it's the same thing I hear all the time just to give you an opportunity to say okay wow that's different you know that that's a that's a testimony different than like when people share in our churches our testimonies are all different or you know just just use that to bridge a gap but listen listen to what she's saying let's see here's another idea oh this was crazy this was yesterday we go to shower at snow college every morning and there's a couple of girls walking around in the showers and you know I figured they were probably LDS and you know they could figure out really quickly that we weren't and we just started talking in the locker room nothing spiritual nothing heavy but you know she saw my Christian t-shirt she saw me put my cross on I saw her putting her garments on in front of me which is okay but so it was very obvious that we were not the same but we just talked friendly you know what do you do for a living found out about each other I did step out a little bit and I said hey there's this really neat thing going on in anti city park tomorrow this lady named Susan is gonna talk and I you know I told I invited her to that and said you know told her that Susan had come out of polygamy and that it was you know a very intriguing story so I'd at least threw that out there and invited her well I had also described you know that or told her that we'd be out there on the streets are you guys going to pageant yes you know and so I said well my husband's out there too you'll you'll probably find him because he wears this big black hat that I can't stand but whatever it's a good way to find him so lo and behold last night just from talking in the locker room when we have like sorry to say this not all our clothes on you know we're talking in the locker room and she comes and finds me last night on the street but she found Keith and then waited for about an hour and a half while I was talking to somebody else waited to talk to me and my head is still spinning from talking to these other two polygamous guys and I turn around and there she is hi I'm going oh wow okay yay here we go let's keep going so you know just you never know just little stuff can can do something and we sat and talked until the pageant started and I won't get into all the details but I didn't have to do much she understood where I was coming from as far as using the impossible gospel I didn't have to use but a few verses and she was hanging her head and saying I know I know that I felt that you know and it was I didn't get to do as much as I wanted but she ended it sort of abruptly because she wanted to go find her friends it was getting dark but we prayed together and she had tears coming down her face when we finished praying I don't know what God did with that but you know something something small that you can use you just don't know what God's gonna do with that so start in you know polish ways like me while you're getting dressed also remember that you are a witness you are not a lawyer think about that in the legal sense you know play it out in your mind ok when there has been a crime committed the witness just gets up and says this is what happened you're not the judge you're not the lawyer you're the witness that helps take some pressure off too and this is a small thing but I've just seen this over the years when I start talking to somebody especially a woman I don't care how bright it is out there take off your shades they need to see your eyes they need to see that you're not like I said on an Amway kick of just trying to go through some approach or some outline with them it just makes a big difference and if you're squinting I've had I God has answered those prayers and I've had big Christian guys see that and come stand behind them and pray and block the Sun for me on purpose because they knew that that I couldn't really see them and I was struggling God does amazing stuff like that so maybe that's not very profound but take your shades off ok now going on to number 5 here how can we show them God's grace what we're going to do as we go through the impossible gospel stuff a little bit is I want you to think of your studies of the Old Testament the the impossible gospel outlined that we use that we teach others on isn't anything that is original to us because God did the original impossible gospel in the Old Testament he used the law over hundreds and hundreds of years to show people that they couldn't keep it that they could not please God with their sacrifices you know back then it was animal sacrifices today in Utah the sacrifices are in the forms of little cards you know though that whatever that to prove their worthiness through their Sam Scott card I mean temple recommend so that's that's their sacrifice that's their efforts to please God represented in that little card that's good for two years you know I'm not being facetious for those even listening online who maybe don't know that but that's that's the reality temple recommends our a little card the way the oh great the barcode yeah so so the Old Testament was there to convict people of their sin to show them that they needed a savior well we're gonna use LDS sources the same way that God used the Old Testament and a lot of times when I'm talking to LDS people with their sources they really kind of wonder will sir are you saying that you believe this nope you know I'll say nope I don't believe that these are Scripture but I know that you do so I want to I want to talk about what your standard is in what the best or your religion has to offer and how you're going to hope to please God through this system that you're following and another thing that that's fun to do that if you've had prior experience with LDS people reference your past conversations with LDS people in order to guide the discussion where you want it to go okay you can do that and and like I said asking questions I said that in the beginning for instance less than a year ago Keith and I had a wonderful several month long stint with some sister missionaries at home in San Antonio somehow they didn't get the memo of who we were and they showed up and we had lots of good discussions and we went in depth on the impossible gospel stuff only going off of what they said using what they said and then going to the church website and studying with their permission of course in this oh no don't look at other stuff oh yeah there's a lot of stuff out there right right but we can use your church website you.this is more something you can do at home you can use we can use your church website to learn about your church teachings right oh right right right okay well here's what we found this week and here's our questions you know you can do the same thing with your discussions on the streets if you have Mormon friends at home that you've talked to things about or you talked to them about things you can say well I have this Disgaea or whatever and we've been talking about grace or whatever you know whatever you whatever you want to guide your discussion to with the people on the streets use that as a starting point to get them in the direction you want to go and and it's it really works beautifully because then you're not attacking them you're just asking questions about your friends at home who've been talking to them who supposedly believe the same things you know and you can throw things out like correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I understood that the missionaries taught me is that correct or did they not have it quite right or whatever you know so that it's it takes their defenses down especially with the women you want to take their defenses down it's not about point counterpoint with the women that's more of a guy thing I think for I'm making a general statement I'm not saying girls aren't smart I'm just saying you get in a different way until you can get to the point you got to have them ready to where they're ready and want the count the point/counterpoint stuff so I hope I'm not rambling you guys get it okay okay my heart's going okay so pray for me not to ramble okay so anyway we're going to use the Old Testament approach using Mormon sources another thing that I want to throw out before we get into the the real sources is that I promise you bet you money that when you start into this with them you are gonna have them look at the reference read it for themselves and they'll start explaining it something entirely different you know some story that they heard at some fireside or something there Bishop said on the topic that has nothing to do with the standard that you just read in their scriptures acknowledge their story make a nice comment whatever yeah let's get back to that but I'm really interested in what your scriptures say because that's the authority right you know stories are great to illustrate but you've got to always point them back because they are not going to want I kind of I kind of relate it to you know when you your training and your your house training a dog and you they have a accident on the floor and you're supposed to like take their head and shove it in the stuff you know to make them mmm smell it and then whack them with the newspaper okay that's that's kind of what you got to do when they go off on their little trails you gotta you got to get them back in the yuck to let them see the Yaak to let them smell the yuck so that they will disdain the yuck so they won't do that anymore okay I hope I'm not being I'm not trying to mock I'm just saying that they're gonna want to go somewhere else really fast when you start showing them this stuff but you've got to get them back in it get them back to the yuck okay so Moroni 10:30 to grab your Book of Mormon okay so our teams are go through very very good training with Keith my training is a little different so it's probably not quite as systematic but I'm just gonna throw I know a lot of you have probably heard these verses ad nauseam you know but I'm gonna just throw in a few little tips of what I like to do especially with women too to add humor or to take the pressure off of them and to maybe put it on someone else so that they can see things clearer if you're not you know talking about them all the time so Murrow 9 1032 yay come unto Christ and be perfected in him and deny yourselves of all ungodliness and if you shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness and love God with all your might mind and strength then is His grace sufficient for you that by His grace you may be perfect in Christ and if by the grace of God you're perfect in Christ you can in no wise deny the power of God so obviously if you know anything about English grammar or whatever you can see very easily there's an if-then statement ask them about that ask them do you see that what do you think about that is it is it ordered properly did he did moroni I get this right you know throw out things like that just to go just to make them see that okay yeah this is literal so and then easy question to ask for them is what are the requirements for grace according to this passage you know ask them think of like a recipe when you follow a recipe you've got to know whether what are the requirements upfront so that before you go to start making it in your kitchen you don't want to be running back to Walmart every two minutes to get something you get all your supplies together so air mints so that you can have this grace you know come out of your oven or whatever how do you how do you put this together well get them to look at the verse that's key look at the verse and tell me what the court requirements are for grace not what you think the requirements are for grace because that's what they're going to want to talk about what they think get them back to you to this obviously the requirements are deny yourself of most of your ungodliness oops okay right I changed it I'm gonna do that all throughout our discussion I'm gonna purposely change things number one to see if you guys are staying awake and then also to give you ideas of how to throw in stuff that's not there to get them to see what the passage really says so deny yourself of all ungodliness and love God with your might mind and strength so we have four ingredients for grace okay for things to get this grace that we want so all right so then you just again you just start asking questions what does all mean you know get them to tell you it all means you can joke you can say hey you know if you study this in the reformed Egyptian haha what does all mean in the reformed Egyptian is it something different no it it means all it's it's all encompassing it's nothing missing its it's there's no there's no lacking ingredient it's completely there so all ungodliness and then love God with all your might mind and strength and ask them how they're doing ask them what they think about that ask them if they're able to do that you know throw stuff out to get them to see now they're not gonna like it but again bring them back to it anyway don't let them go off so then another another good easy passage to bring out from here and it's funny when you're talking through stuff with them sometimes God will direct them to bring up one of these very verses that you're wanting to get to and it's so exciting when that happens or I'll show you an example a little bit they'll bring up another verse that maybe you've never found that totally supports what you're saying and that that's coming up in a little bit but anyway second Nephi 25 23 I'm sure some of you can quote this one by heart also but for the sake of the recordings and videos we'll go ahead and put him on there hi youtubers I met one a youtuber the other night he came up to me and stranger come out to me shaking my hand knowing my name and I was like oh no yeah so but he was he who's LDS and he was actually not angry at me which was another miraculous story but we won't talk about that here so um before we labored diligently to write to persuade our children and also our brethren to believe in Christ to be reconciled to God before we know that it is by grace that we are saved after all we can do okay so up until the last 1 2 3 4 5 up until the last five words that sounds biblical right sounds like okay yeah I can deal with that if it weren't for those last five words that aren't in Ephesians a lot of them think that that's really what Ephesians 2 8 through 10 says they think that those words are in the Bible as well but they're not as you all know so oh one thing I forgot to mention from Moroni 10 sorry see pray for me scatterbrain when does the grace apply after okay even going back to Moroni 1032 if you do this then okay there's a time sequence there that's inherent in an if-then statement like I said I'm not real smart but I do learn some logical stuff from Keith and an if-then statement is there it's it's just it's telling you that there's a time thing same thing with the word after it's a preposition I've learned that through homeschooling so after tells us that it's not before it's not during its sequence okay so bring that out with them so so when again from this passage when do I get the grace after let them answer though I know you're gonna want to jump in and just preach it but hold back let them process let them think let them go and because they're thinking I really don't want to say this what do I do you pray while they're doing that and then let them come up with what the text means it's after okay so and this has been really funny this year turn to Alma 1137 I have just been loving this verse this year it's my favorite one I've actually been starting with this one more a nice and to you again Alma 1137 you guys all there yeah okay ooh that you cannot save them in their sins for I cannot deny his word and he had said that no unclean thing except for you Heather can inherit the kingdom of heaven oops therefore how can you be saved except you inherit the kingdom of heaven therefore you cannot be saved in your sins okay so how many unclean things can inherit the kingdom of heaven right Glenn says big goose egg right No nunca nada you know throw out however many languages you can say 0 or whatever you know to get them to laugh no unclean thing that doesn't mean that God bless you that God is gonna make an exception for you or me you know if you don't if you don't want to harp on them because like I said with the women you got to kind of be gentle put it on yourself okay so if I'm unclean is God gonna let me in just to be a nice guy and they might they might start to say yes they they do that a lot they like to say well but you but you know you don't seem like you're really that bad and you know we all have our weaknesses or our flaws or you know but I think I think God will will accept you you know cuz you're a nice person and you know you you love God and you have kids and you have a family and no doesn't matter no unclean thing and and ask them again point them back to here does it mean what it says or should the Prophet change it that's a good question do to do also to again get their head back in it should the Prophet have to maybe fix this passage a little bit if it doesn't mean what it says because he could do that right I mean he's got that he's got the direct line with God he could he could fix it to say what you're saying very easily just throw it out that way no laughs but they'll get it so so you need to get out of your sins and how are you gonna do that okay that's that's the big question that's why I've been starting with this passage a lot this year what does it take in your system to get out of your sins because I I like to not don't put Christianese in there don't talk about you know sanctification or you know don't use some big theological term I like to say dumb it down for Becky make it really simple and just tell me you know everybody on this earth no matter what their religion is they like to know how do you get rid of sin and that's what it all boils down to in any religion is what is your solution for sin so that's when you can really get into the meat of this because you can't go there without getting rid of your sin so right throughout here yes did you question oh they agree 100% oh yeah no unclean thing you can't you can't be that's where we're going okay that's our this is good you're thinking okay so now somewhere in here this doesn't always necessarily go in order my advice to the ones who've never really used this approach if you want to call it that is memorize the reference these references memorize the reference and memorize I don't know three or four words that describe what the passage is saying so for like Moroni 1032 you could say you could memorize if-then requirements for grace or something just to help you stick it in your brain because they're gonna say things that are gonna tip you off to oh use that verse next you know it's like God saying here's what they need to hear next when they when certain things come out of their mouth so you know the next one that I'm going to use first Nephi 37 I usually wait for the tip-off on this one when they start saying well God knows that we can't do it he knows we can't be perfect he doesn't expect us to be perfect there's all kinds of incredible sources with true to the faith and you know gospel principles and all that where you can go yeah he does really expect perfection and they know that deep in their mind that yes he does expect perfection but to me you know I like to use the other books as backup but I want to use their scripture first because there's no wiggle room when you're using their scripture they can't get out of it they can't give you the excuse oh he wasn't a prophet when he wrote that whatever you know it's still your book then if it's not right then they should not sell it okay whatever anyway so so so first Nephi 37 the tip-off that I use that I look for is like I said well he do is we can't be perfect okay well then you know when I've had Mormon friends over the years this is this is me talking to the Mormon now when I've had Mormon friends over the years they all you know the good ones anyway I went to seminary right right yeah did you go seminary yeah okay so they all know this one and we even talked about it with the missionaries because they brought it up that you know what first Nephi 37 says because you've memorized this one right right get them to quote it if you want if not show them tell them they haven't done all they can do and it came to pass that I Neifi said unto my father I will go and do the things which the LORD hath commanded for I know that the Lord giveth no Commandments unto the children of man ty save he shall prepare a way for them that they may try to accomplish the thing that he commandeth them uh-huh okay so for the people listening elsewhere other than in this room maybe not looking at it doesn't say try I threw that in because I want them to see what it is saying by getting them to correct me they're realizing what it doesn't say so I mean correct away that's fine correct me correct me Molly Mormon help me understand what your religion really teaches and then show me how it's better than what I have which we'll get to that in a minute but so he gives no Commandments under the children of men save you shall prepare a way that they may accomplish the thing that he commands them so again get them to interpret it once you get past the stories and maybe have to do this a few times to get them back to look at it they will have to admit that yeah it is saying that any commandment he gives you says that he thinks that you can do it okay this this is my little one-liner I memorize with this verse this is the Nike verse you can do it okay it's it's totally within your realm of possibility to keep the commandments did you have questionary I've never had that objection no because the word accomplished okay I mean that is such a type a type word accomplished right for men it would be conquer whatever but for women it's accomplished gotta got to get all these things done today you know got to keep the bread baked got to get the kids ready got to have them all looking perfect and I and I tell them that and I'll joke with them about that and I'll say you know i'm i'm pretty much a workaholic and i have those tendencies so man when i read this passage and it says accomplished i say give me a list right what do i need to do to accomplish this religion what do i have to do to accomplish this thing called forgiveness because you you you give me a goal and you tell me what to do I'm gonna do it and they'll say yeah we can tell okay great well then you know then I need to know what what do I need to accomplish and and not try to accomplish but that I can do it the other one there the little one right next to first me five three seven on your outline this is one of those moments go ahead and turn to Moreau and I 733 years ago when the the Mormon missionaries behind the the gates of the temple used to be allowed to come out and play they're not allowed to come out anymore I don't know why actually I do I'm just being facetious but um hang on I can't talk and flip at the same time so anyway there was these three sweet missionary boys and one of them just happened to be from Hawaii so it was really cool name was elder Aki ona and if you're out there elder love you and please keep listening he brought this up that was just great because he it showed that he understood what I was saying Marone 733 and Christ have said if you will have faith in me you shall have power to do whatsoever thing is expedient in me I was like dang that's really good elder you know exactly if you have faith and they'll tell you I have faith just like you we have the same faith my faith in Christ is just like okay great well if it is then you have the power to do not to attempt not to do part way to do great and you could even say show me your faith show me your works you know nah maybe not but you'll get them off on a tangent for James too but anyway so that's just another little side verse if you want to memorize as another Nike verse DNC 1:30 on through 33 now this one is good to use then they start trying to poopoo their sin and make it like it's not that big of a deal and this one is really really fun for me to use also again there's all kinds of creative things that you can do personally to to get their defenses down and when they start trying to say that well you know there's some sins that are kind of they're just imperfections or you know just little small things or whatever and then there's the big you know adultery and all that again I like to then insert parts of my personal testimony which I grew up Catholic and we were what Keith says severely Catholic and and I knew very well that there were mortal sins and venial sins and I'll talk to them about that and I'll say wow you know okay so so you know that if they start talking about degrees of sin obviously all the all of you are thinking James 2:10 right you want to just throw James 2:10 at them and be done with it and go no go with it let them let them say that there's different kinds of sin and I'll say oh wow so okay so so like in Catholicism we were taught that there's mortal and venial sins and I would describe and they'll say yeah yeah and I'll say well do you I said are you aware that those are not in the Bible that those descriptions and they'll say oh yeah of course not of course not you know there's no mortal and venial sins yeah yeah right that's just you know unfortunately they've got it wrong there but guess what there's a finger wagon in their head because you're talking about the same thing with Catholicism it's the small sins are the the venial sins and the the big ones are the mortal sins and so okay well then if if that's true for Catholicism then is there a passage in your scriptures where it talks about which sins are not so bad and just wait you know just let them have silence because because you know I want to really avoid all of them but I'd like to know which ones aren't that bad in the eyes of God and they won't know what to say so this passage D&C one is along those lines for I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance nevertheless he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven and he that repents not from me wait a minute yes okay he that repents not from him shall be taken even the light which he has received from my spirit shall not always strive with men saith the Lord okay so I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance so if I'm gonna categorize some of my sins as being smaller isn't that looking at sin with a more of a degree of allowance because it's not quite as bad maybe and what was it one of the sister missionaries at home said something like she said well well I don't I don't commit you know really grotesque sins my sins are just but it's mistakes and she equated it to when you her when you're filling out a scantron in school and you bubble in the wrong bubble she said that's what some of our sins are like and I went wow maybe your sins but not mine you know again show me the list of the ones that are just getting the wrong bubble I don't think there's any bubble bubble sins I think they're all pretty bad you know and that's what this passage is saying again you you can use that phrase the least degree of allowance okay I can't I can't use the least degree of allowance with my sin so then getting on to this this next one DNC 58 42 and 43 okay so somewhere in this discussion they're gonna start trying to play the kind of like it's kind of like a linchpin of the topic of repentance and again I don't know why but this year I have been just really focusing on this topic with all of my discussions because again this this teaching of theirs they think gives them some wiggle room out of their sin but really it doesn't and that's what we want to kind of teach through this section is 58 42 and 43 behold he who has repented of his sins the same is forgiven and I the LORD remember them no more sounds cool by this even know if a man repented of his sins behold he will confess them and try to forsake them okay again for those of you online it doesn't say that it says he will confess them and forsake them there's no try - okay but that's what they're gonna want to try to do to get out of this try ha ha that's what they're going to use to attempt to get out of this passage that you as long as you're doing your best you know they'll say that as long as you're headed down the right Road as long as you're pointed in the right direction yada yada yada okay well but if I'm repenting do I want to try to cover my sins with with true repentance or false repentance well you might say well what do you mean well what would false repentance look like ask them to teach you what is what is false repentance and they'll obviously say something like false repentance is when you say you're sorry and you're not going to do it again but then you do it again okay great I don't God's not interested in that right right okay I don't do that so what is true repentance true repentance is for sake right he will forsake them what does for sake and again they should know their their doctrine everybody this year that I've talked to has they'll say yeah you never do it again when you take wedding vows you know and I'll show my wedding ring and say I took a vow to forsake all others does that mean I can go visit my old boyfriend no you forsake all others gonna get a name in yeah yeah so so uh what even on Facebook yeah that's okay so forsake all others means you don't go there anymore so if true repentance means you don't go there anymore and you keep going there which kind of repentance is it Molly you know get her to tell you or him you can use this with either but I'm talking about Molly right now which kind of repentance is that what is God interested in the true kind or the false kind you might have to say that 20 times for them to see it but keep saying it they're worth it but from here I like to go to DNC 82 seven and I usually like to paint a picture I lost my clock Rodney oh there it is boy I got a move yeah DNC 82 seven I call this the chutes and ladders verse because I have little kids and they like that game and now verily ice and to you I the Lord will not let any sin to your charge go your ways and sin no more but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return saith the Lord chutes and ladders you guys know the game yeah you land on the wrong spot you go all the way back to the beginning and you're not happy about that with Mormonism when you commit the sin and you repent and then you commit the same sin you go all the way back to the beginning and it's all heaped back on you and they know that and especially the women they feel that that's why I showed you that picture earlier that's why the girl when we were praying last night that's why no for sure that's why she was crying at the end because she said she understood that she felt that and again also I'm not going to turn to it now but I've got the reference there teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith page 148 is a dynamite passage to use because it says that daily repentance is not that which is pleasing in the sight of God when they tell you that repentance is a process and that you should do it every day I'm thinking in my mind Bolsheviki you know I'm sorry but it's that is not what is pleasing in the sight of God according to their religion and Joseph Smith said so yes I'm sorry it's it's on your outline teachings I put T PJs just to abbreviate teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith page 148 is is what I like to use to answer their claim that that God is pleased with daily repentance he is not not the God of Mormonism anyway I should say just to clarify okay so alma 34 we got to go there i'm just gonna talk through it it's a long passage but god has also been used leading me to use this one a lot this year and sometimes just going straight to it because if they want to start saying that we can do it later okay so you're a little thing to memorize if you want to memorize memorize alma 34 and something about no afterlife or something like that because that passage uses the term this life i don't i think about eight times or something i have a mall circled so when we look through it and we see it they see all the circles my little notes this life this life so i can't hope that i can do it later and again i like to reference past discussions with mormons to take the pressure off of them especially when it's been missionaries and say okay though told me that I could that I could believe the Book of Mormon literally and totally without any flaws and they will fraternal and they will say yes without any flaws so alma 34 says that I can't do later I got to do it now and if I don't the end of the passage says I'm sealed to Satan so if I've been through that temple and I've done everything that your religion says I need to do and I've procrastinated my repentance and again if you need to remind them that true repentance not false repentance right I want to do the true repentance if I've procrastinated that then I will be sealed to Satan and I always yeah yeah Aaron said forever all right it says the end of the end of it says and this is the final state of the wicked and I like to throw in there when I'm reading it and this is the temporary state of the wicked and they'll be quick to correct me and I say great it doesn't say that it says final kind of like is that your final answer on the show right whatever what's it called millionaire or whatever yeah yeah so final means what in the reformed Egyptian it meant final okay so also I always like to throw in that you know they so want you to rely on your feelings especially the women okay well I'll tell them honestly when we were meeting with whatever missionaries and talking through all this stuff and really delving in I didn't feel very good so are you sure you want me to trust my feelings because if you really want me to trust my feelings I don't think I want to talk to your missionaries anymore and let's say no we want you to talk to the missionaries well then how come I don't feel good when I talk about how your religion tells me to get rid of my sin I don't like it it stinks I can't do it you know and I always tell them then don't teach me anymore just shoot me now please because the more I know the deeper kimchi I am in because I've got knowledge then I why am I not doing it and I also like to put it on myself and say okay if I have trouble with you know getting angry with my kids sometimes and they can relate to the you know tell a few stories laugh a little bit whatever okay so if I can do that if I'm supposed to be able to do that with that sin you know how do you how do you do that and I and I'll joke around and say have you done that Wow you know can I please you know no I can't do that and I also like to use an example sometimes of again in my own life I'll say so is it kind of like this you know I'll say I'll look around I'll say I used to smoke like all kinds of stuff used to smoke so but god has gotten ahold of me praise the Lord and I don't do that anymore and I have no desire to ever do that again and they'll say yes that is that's what you got to do true repentance see and else I see you can do it you did it right yeah great have a party I did it with smoking what about lying what about girls coveting that's our favorite sin as girls we covet all the time whatever it is hair figure house husband whatever baby her height why doesn't my baby be quiet like yours or whatever okay so so you got to do that I got to do what I did was smoking with all my sins Wow how do you do that anyway so I'm gonna just fly through some of this stuff on the last page eeeek okay so they are gonna talk about the heart the women will definitely want to say but God knows my heart right you guys all heard that okay and I always go that's what I'm worried about God knows my heart and they'll say what do you mean you're a nice person no ask my husband you know God knows my heart that doesn't comfort me and they'll say well why not and I'll say well don't you know what the Bible says about our heart does it say good things no and here's a slew of verses we're not going to have time to go through them now but for the folks online my favorite one to start with is Jeremiah 17:9 and what you can do if you're you know if you don't have a lot of brain juice like me and you want to just memorize one reference then in your Bible next to Jeremiah 17:9 put the other references so that you just remember I mean just memorize one reference and what it's about you can say this is your your scummy heart verse or whatever and then you can have the rest of them right there at your fingertips Genesis 6:5 Genesis 8:21 that was that was pre and post flood where God said that there was nothing good in their heart ever at anytime or something like that look it up Ecclesiastes 7:20 and also 9 3 similar stuff I wrote on this next one Romans 3:10 through 18 again one of my ex Mormon friends when we were going through this the first time the cycling through sorting out issues and stuff she said oh this is the we are scum thing huh and I said yeah this is this is there is no one who does good no not one there is none that seeketh after God their throats are an open grave all these great things that it says about us in our heart that's that passage Ephesians two three we are by nature good people it doesn't say that it says but you can use that when you leave your throne showing it to them we are by nature objects of Wrath man you know wrath that's what you do when you see your kit then mean or be a bully in some other kid wrath right you don't want your kid to be seen as a bully so you go after your kid and you train them don't do that or whatever you know mama wrath relate to them with the mama wrath right or if you see someone going after your kid that's more wrath I guess anyway Matthew 15 17 through 20 and Mark 7 18 through 23 are the others that we're not gonna have time to look at these are lists of sins in the New Testament and this is just me but I when I look at Matthew 15 I look at the sins are listed those seem more like guy sins but so as not to let the girls off the hook the other list is longer and to me that seems more girly since but you know they're all sins and it's a list of them and it says that they come from the heart says these thing it says what you put in your mouth doesn't make you unclean right that was correcting the Old Testament thinking of unclean stuff to eat or whatever it's the things that come out of your heart that make you unclean where does it come out of Molly does it come out of my imperfections does it come out of my upbringing you know some other excuse no it comes out of my heart you can't you can't get around that it says it in King James as well as other translations okay so I am just gonna the next little topic here was about worthiness but because of course that's what they all want is to be worthy sure check it out the one thing I do want to throw in though that it that has become a little fun thing to do also is in Luke 7 verses 6 through 10 again changing the passage to make it say something else this is oh that's Matthew sorry guys dead air okay this is the Centurions servant story and he is he's going to get his his servant he'll healed and he wants to use us to come and Jesus is saying you know yeah but the certain Aryan says I don't really need to come it's just your word that's gonna do it and when they came to Jesus they besought him he said that he was worthy for whom he should do this you can point out that so when Jesus heard these things right he saw that he saw the great faith of the Centurion he marveled at him and he turned about and said unto the people that he should get thee to the bishop and fall and to follow the steps of repentance so you can be worthy and get your temple recommend you know change the verse no he didn't say that he said you're healed it's just his word it's it's not it's not what the church lines out it to be so anyway the last thing I guess I'll I'll skip all this other stuff in Luke oh just for the passages though Luke 15:11 through 32 that's the the story of the prodigal son and if it can if it comes up in a conversation sometimes I'll talk about how I was a prodigal and you know Wow what would have happened if I was that prodigal when I came back if my family were LDS would they have received me with open arms instantly you got you got some steps to follow a girl you gotta get yourself you got to do this process you better read miracle forgiveness and you better have your interview with your bishop and you better get back on it would not have been the story in the Bible if that was an LDS family and they'll understand that and the last one is Luke 18 9 through 14 and this is the story of the Pharisee and the publican in the temple praying note to self in the very beginning of that passage this guy who was the publican it says that he was unworthy but where was he he was in the temple hmm just something to think about so the Pharisee obviously was there to prove his righteousness the publican was there beating his breast saying the kind of like that we are scum chapter you know I can't do this there's nothing good in me but God praised his faith and because he took inventory of his heart and he was honest with his sin to close Romans 10 a lot of times if I've got a very short snippet of time with a Mormon and they just they just are going to give me five minutes or whatever and they tell me something else and they'll say you know well what what is the difference what what do you what are you getting just give me the bottom line I like to use this one Romans 10:1 through 4 and again I'm gonna change a few things I'll say okay this is where I'm at this is Becky brethren this should be on my tombstone brethren my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Mormons actually says Israel is that they might be saved for I bear them record that they have a zeal for God but not according to knowledge for they being ignorant of God's righteousness and going about to establish their own righteousness you can throw in worthiness if you want right there they have not submitted themselves unto the worthiness of God for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that holds a temple recommend it doesn't say that righteousness for everyone who believes they won't want to read it that way but that is what it says so whose righteousness the ultimate goal of Mormonism is it to stand in your own righteousness or it is it to stand in God's they'll want to have both ways according to this you cannot have your cake and eat it too it's either one or the other you're either gonna stand in God's righteousness or your own righteousness and whose would you rather stand in Mali you know I would much rather stands and God standing God's righteousness because mine is yuck so um I guess that's it thanks for listening oh wait no no sorry one more thing very important I have got to read you this this is from an ex-mormon from San Antonio and she is an amazing person her name is Paige and she asked I asked her to give you a few thoughts she was here last year stuff prevented her but in my opinion what LDS women most need to hear or see on the streets it's Christian women who are real people they need to know that Christians do not consider themselves to be better than anyone else that they are not speaking from a place of superiority but rather from a place of humility they need to see the peace and joy that comes from perfect living not from sorry booth not from perfect living but rather from relying on a perfect Savior the image that keeps coming to mind is love all caps these women need unconditional unfailing love if they can see this kind of love emanating from the Christian women on the streets then they may be able to accept it from the one only one who can truly give it from the LDS perspective saving face and appearing to have it all together are so important these women need to know that they are loved and accepted by both the Christians on the street as well as by their Lord and Savior they need to know they do not need to be worthy in order to have the help of the Holy Spirit they also need to understand that Jesus is their Savior not their example mostly they need to know that they are not being judged or tacked attacked for their beliefs but that rather it is love that motivates you to be there the only way I know to do this on the streets of Manti is to be yourself be friendly be outgoing engage people you meet in conversation when you stand in line to get a drink at the concessions be friendly and talked to people in Walmart in McDonald's in the showers whatever treat the entire time you're in Manta is an opportunity for God to use you and not just a few hours on the street before the pageant stand is an example of Christ allow the Holy Spirit that is in you to work through you remember there are many of us praying for you Thank You Paige

Channel: Aaron Shafovaloff

Views: 17,048

Rating: 4.2402234 out of 5

Keywords: Becky, Walker, Evidence, Ministry

Id: mJxiOjvy0eg

Length: 74min 34sec (4474 seconds)

Published: Sat Aug 21 2010