There are Only 2 Genders (2nd Edition) | Change My Mind

they talk about trans people intersex people that used to be referred to as hermaphrodites which is a phrase that that we don't prefer anymore we find it to be very triggering and offensive because of the line that has been used to store okay but it was like that like there's a certain well not kind of like you know it wasn't hermaphrodite a medical term welcome to another installment of there are only two genders change my mind unedited conversations with people on the street usually we do this on campus but during summer break that's kind of hard to do so before we start because this is a long one I wanted to show you how this conversation ends up with our second person who claim to be intersex and got a little hostile and the reason for this is because of the length of these conversations if you ever feel like we're talking around in circles or getting off in the details you'll see that they come back later on and they matter that's key when having a conversation and finding common ground [Music] rain is not societal the biological makeup of a brain I'm saying you don't want to mate right so what I'm saying the brain that you call the male brain or the female brain with what you did not me I'm saying is closer to that brain that that you were referred to as a male brain you refer to it that way so I want to make sure I'm correct that you believe there is a male brain generally and a female brain generally what I'm explaining my answer when I'm giving you my answer okay my answer is you are referring to as a male brain is what I didn't you did that's why it's important you brought this up male brain and female brain I'm trying to understand what you brought up I didn't bring up male brain so that context matters because we are going to rewind all the way to the beginning where you can see that intersex girl works for this person who approached me transgender male-to-female Danielle Skidmore actually running for Austin City Council in district 9 how are you would you like to change my mind okay thank you very much appreciate it oh great thank you very much what's your name Danielle Danielle Danielle absolutely so Stephen and if you're familiar at all with the show this is just where we engaged in civil discussion dialogue and issues that are usually pretty controversial they result in talking points with a lot of people and I can see full-length conversations so I believe there are two genders okay welcome to change my mind binary granny you can ask are you transgender I've been ready this morning that's okay now Sonia literally I'm like oh my gosh right right conversation so um what what do you believe is wrong I guess about my statement you say there's two genders yeah I think I've come to realize I'm trans right young we are the way we are like my phone my own collagen two amino acids right biological variation is sure right it doesn't diminish his right but it is now like why I'm trans the took me 37 years what I knew to be true work my way through the stations of my reality which was that I don't know why sisters right like okay so wanna make sure was kind of unwrapping this not carefully you said the truth of your reality that you are a woman okay um how do you know that's the truth yeah presumptious no that's okay that was there was presumptuous but correct okay well I think this is an obvious it big confronts the LGBTQIA community that preferences sexuality preferences as far as I'm attracted to women that's that's a that's a preference obviously so it's an eight I was born I like women and biological earn a male because I have a penis and the hormonal profile in chromosomes of the male that's I know that it's true that's true to state that I'm a male that you're the male your ear mail because your ex why I didn't simplified xy2 multitude of factors I have a male brain I have a male body everything from bone density to my hormonal profile - yes my penis all of these things pretty clearly would file me in the cabinet under male biologically like in the spectrum like the spectrum of biological variation you're in that big collection of people that have all of those things yeah that's all right like two-thirds of 1% of the best number our transgender sure uh at which in Texas is like a hundred and thirty thousand adults right yeah for reasons that are still unknown don't have all of the biological components that you describe don't align as cleanly as yours do okay um well you say you know unknown again this goes back to you said your truth that you are a female you asked me why am i a male I hope that I've answered it as clearly as I can so I would return that same question to you because I think we need to start with a presupposition there needs to be the same amount of validity to our arguments as far as us rationalizing them right you said the truth that you are a female you were born a male how do you know that's the truth I was born a transgender okay and how do you know that's the truth how do I know that's true yeah like that then what biological context is it like is it validated is that the question yeah how do you know that you're not simply a man who believes he's a woman like why do you know so why are you why are you attacked at the women oh there's a lot of biological mechanisms in there namely to procreate since the beginning of civilization he has attracted same-sex attracted their intrinsic reality well they can it's a sexual preference I think that's very important because the sexual preference is different from biology right and this is what I find also pretty interesting to me is right now they're teaching that you know obviously you're born gay but gender is a choice and that to me I don't I don't I don't I just don't agree with so which and how do you know you speak you say that you're a transgender you were born a transgender woman right but I would assume on your birth certificate it said male right so at some point you made the decision to live the way that you live right now correct yeah at some point I made the decision almost a decade ago too Gilson Shayla I felt for being different right and at some point I made the decision to about my truth and start trying to reconcile it with to reconcile with a side of society that pretty hostile to people who are so it was a question of they're fighting fighting against myself and then even after I did that I spent trying to accepted the truth and I'm like how do i reconcile with that I'm an engineer a civil engineer I'm a parent congratulations child right like how can I be who are you I am three years and eventually I realize that I don't have a choice like you morning right and with right so 40% transgender people can I pause you right there really quickly just first off I hope that I haven't been hostile I know you talked about the great okay good because I know we disagree but I certainly don't want to be disrespectful to you personally even if I disagree with your site I don't find that we disagree okay okay well I'm glad that I'm glad that way because the last thing I want is for you to feel so you've been sat down and it's been a you know sandbagging and and you've brought up into Anthony Bourdain you brought up a suicide rate I think that's very important you know it's about 41% it doesn't get better after hormone replacement therapy or even actually doing the the full sex-reassignment surgery so here we are right I will disagree with you okay I think the data shows that when people are able to live their lives as themselves accepted in their community in their social networks that's their friends and their family they're not stigmatized when they don't lose their job when they don't they aren't ostracized and like our state legislators spent the past last spring and then called as much essentially to demonize my existence based on somebody's you know I don't honestly sincerely held religious belief I'm not sure why but would have basically challenged my very validity as a human being right then yeah people can be frustrated and scared and terrified and hopeless and then kill themselves but in my community when people are able to live their lives and are accepted and able to you know aren't discriminated right and then their suicide rates fall dramatically the single best you can do for somebody who's lbgtq of any sort especially trans is recognize their truth and accept their humanity well I would disagree with you there and first up I think you made a couple yeah I thought let me explain why you made a couple of presumptions maybe they're not trying to demonize your very existence maybe they just disagree with you and maybe doesn't come from a Christian perspective maybe it comes from a scientific one maybe it comes from a perspective of a medical perspective for example at at Johns Hopkins I think we're having a conversation you and I right now right good we're good thank you though in the suicide rate statistic anecdotally I'm glad to hear that your group of friends do better because one thing I definitely don't want people attempting suicide and one person not just my friends I mean the data from the National Center for transit quality that quality Texas HRC it's not it's not like my anak friends the scientific data shows that when people are not discriminated we are transgender individuals who are able to live their life whether they you know just transition socially or hormone replacement therapy or surgery or whatever when people are able to live their lives their mental health is better well statistically it's an accurate statistically the suicide rate doesn't really improve after I know I'm sex reassignment Saffy but maybe that's something we can policy okay let's assume it's comparable let's assume it's slightly lower let's let's go with that I've seen the study you're talking about and it might be slightly lower it's not dramatically lower but I think this is predicated on the idea and I don't think it's an ill founded idea that because of discrimination because of societal pressure because of feeling like an outsider people have more mental health issues people are more prone to depression people are more likely to attempt suicide if they feel ostracized and isolated right yeah if they're treated as less than human I would I would agree but the fact is minorities generally commit suicide or attempted far fewer numbers for example white males are two times more likely than black men the transgender attempted suicide rate is higher than American slaves they're Jews and concentration camps are we to believe that they have they been treated more poorly in modern America than American slaves or Jews and the statistical reality that nowhere else do you find that suicide rate outside of some serious psychiatric disorders including those who have been enslaved right which might suggest again that this is a this is a not a truth as you said people may perceive it as a reality but it may not be it may not be ideal to treat it just telling people that that's the truth that's a reality when it's in conflict with biology and they're armed and their brain in their biological makeup because it can have catastrophic results and how many gingers are there because now we're talking about non-binary right I know your genders are there I don't I think gender is a continuum I think part of our so like this is my take on it right and this is my own personal opinion and how do you identify just so I make sure why do you say that as a woman let's transgender woman so you say transgender woman I like you know I'm comfortable owning the fact of okarians I don't know that any of us has a responsibility to own anything about our own individuality like I don't think you anybody needs to walk down the street and say hi I am a heterosexual man or I am a homosexual woman right like I but for me I'm comfortable being visible right sure I'm lucky that I get to live in Austin and I get to be visible and not suffer too many consequences now the reality is I am a very small sliver but I weren't quite and professional right my murder rate if I were an african-american transformation like 30 times more like yeah I am so african-american men are much more likely to be murdered than whites into so big part of that is right it unnecessarily drinks is real right and that's by other black my truth like our gender identity we are in our brain from birth before before we're talking about any kind of hormonal replacement okay yeah his various across all of us that I like I'm at peace take the science approve there was a study that was presented this summer I forget the researchers and think we're Belgian or Dutch and it was presented in Spain Barcelona like a month ago that doing imagery studying right your functional MRIs on brands of transgender children to a poor HRT this is there have been some studies that have done and the most famous study was the remedy study what's the what's done folks who might have been in transition or poster yeah and this study has been children who identify you know at a young age pre-puberty many before any kind of medical intervention and studies are showing changes in differences in brain structures that are independent of whether somebody sort of estrogen dominated or tossed around could you um describe brain changes what do you mean by that describe you mean what the studies were showing yeah I don't know because I haven't actually read the medical like the medical the paper itself I read the abstract okay information can I just wanna make sure I'm understanding of we just jumped around the best want to make sure I'm understanding what you're saying so that there you're saying there's a more recent study that showed children pre-transition transition let's say a boy who identified as a girl actually had brain differentiations from the standard mail bringeth salvation a transgender girl right her brain has structures that they're observing with imagery now that are more consistent cisgender girl than they are with a cisgender boy okay regardless of chromosomes we write lists of external genitalia um I haven't read this recent study I'm very familiar with Rometty study and then the more comprehensive study afterward which which said that the changes only occur after hormones are administered but it is interesting that you burn enough so that wouldn't that would presuppose then that there is a male brain and a female brain yeah right I I think there is a male brain okay so then that would sort of I know would have to dispel the idea that gender is a social expression because you said it's a spectrum but if there is a male and a female brain that's a good point right then how does someone be born with a male brains of female humans I think I think our gender identity okay Israel and intrinsic and they based in biology that's something that took me four decades to really to work through sure because of everything else socially around us the pressures for conformality you know conforming and because quite honestly being trans isn't easy I can't imagine Yeah right so but and all of my friends everybody that I like when I finally came out and started coming out and I had circle of trans friend almost universally like when we talk to each other we all have the same lived experiences that we knew this from a very early age and what we struggle with is how do we reconcile that with the rest of society so yes I think gender is real an intrinsic is we believe there's a male brain and a female but I think that there in all of our brains very beautifully so and I think that there are brains that are well I'm our only male or female I think there are brains when we talk about somebody who might be gender non-binary who are somewhere in between but just they are I don't think that there's a binary for anything but your point about so how many genders are there how many genders because he talked about demonizing hey I don't want to demonize anybody yeah I guess the Blasket guy was going out with a Harley there's a trolley the thing oh is it okay so what was I talking about sir before that truck oh yeah I don't want to genders I don't want to demonize anybody got a person you're looking at state laws that misgendering could be considered some form of assault or misgendering could be hate speech it's important if you're presenting this argument as your true somebody proposing legislation that exists in Canada already misgendering is already a crime and it's been proposed here in the United States and so it's very important that if we do that okay let me just clarify okay I I spend a lot of time at the Capitol all right yeah and I don't know I hope I don't have to spend a lot of time next year at the Capitol all of us feel the same way all right yeah sorry about other things not exactly a party but I don't see I haven't seen anybody proposing that somebody oh yeah it happened all over the place for example in New York if you're a landlord and you do it you can be sued and in Canada Jordan Pederson is someone I would I would really look out for like I'm not gonna argue or disagree with you because I don't like without those so you wouldn't want any kind of laws like that the misgender you wouldn't want any pronoun laws really like that oh now laws no I mean I I think mmunity right I think that we should have protection non-discrimination protection that's afforded to well then it has to be defined like any other protected group so it's important I mean you've talked about your truth and you living within society yeah I think the issue with people who disagree with it first off the biological basis obviously the suicide rate there are a lot of concerns but also right now we're restructuring all of society Western society to accommodate less than one percent of a population how are we reached and if we're going to make sure I might have let me just finish up if we're going to do that I think it's important for me to know if I need to use the right pronouns and not be accused of demonizing someone even accidentally hominid Jen how many pronouns are there how many genders are there you know that if I use she/her for you right sure made a mistake right that's a mistake right and if somebody I think it was may deliver an insult you're not mate this wouldn't be a mistake you looked at me and assumed as you said male heterosexual and that's fine I'm at this point if I chose to you see but yeah no she instead of he or more like just that right get it wrong and then somebody says hey you know it's she right it's a timer it would be respectful what if someone says 'hey what if someone has a different gender that's not in the binary wants a new pronoun and what if i won't be compelled to use their language which right some languages how many genders are there how many gender how many pronouns are there what do we do with people who don't use a proper tone treat everybody with respect right so if you korean said i would prefer that you use they/them right because i'm non-binary or CC er okay which is like a new term yeah which is actually an old term ZZ ER is older than they them right and linguists will like debate you know which is more linguistically correct and i think that you know the language isn't attempts to describe so if you asked me to use they/them yeah I would I would say them because I want to respect you right notify inadvertently said he right instead I wouldn't consider that hate speech right well for example I asked you if you were transgender when you sat down there I've asked people that who were transgender and they were immediately very offended yeah but again I have to know so that I don't miss from misgender you so that I don't get into trouble this is this is a societal fear it divides us more than it unites us and I'd ask you to respectful way with that but well you should have seen this lady in an arbor she wasn't happy about it wasn't happy that did you asked yeah transgender I think it's a very personal question right and I don't think it's paper if we go back to how many genders are there how many pronouns are there for going to restructure society I think we need to know yeah but let's go back to why why does my gender identity like in moving about society yeah why this whether I'm trans are not mattered to you yeah well because it's a central building block for society the American family we see statistically that children do better with a mother and a father in the household it's the biggest determining factor right it's the biggest determining factor in poverty crime whether they go on to college whether they end up in prison whether they have a family of their own happiness mental illness mom and dad and his dad is specifically still in the household I mean we talk about these social drop programs welfare we talk about improving education if we could have more families with a mother and a father with the children there would be nothing that could affect the productivity and the happy outcome for sure yeah I believe that your I believe that all children blanket statement do better with a mother and a father and now so what about that family arrangement it is intrinsically better than fathers or dr. Crowder and transgender mother it's a fair question I believe that a lot about it is what about it is better rather then it's it's not the majority right but how is that intrinsically better right well the reason the statistics would reflect that as far as productivity now it comes with children is because and in my so that these are the statistics my opinion and again you have a lot of sociologists and scientists who look at this I think it's pretty straightforward I don't I don't believe that two mothers can provide everything that a mother and a father can provide a child and I don't believe that two fathers can provide everything that a mother and a father to provide a child I don't believe men and women are interchangeable I think that's the core issue right now when we say genders non-binary that's a spectrum and we haven't gotten definitive answers on any of this we're saying that gender is interested of answers that's that I think we do I think we do yeah I I don't know that we do I don't like in my life when I'm moving about the world when I'm practicing as an engineer or taking care of my son like one of my chromosomes look like it's not it has nothing to do with how I'm able to interact with society and take care of him and not a lot to do with it I like I'll tell you my lived experience is that just as capable of taking care of my son now as I was before and in many ways better because I'm no longer fighting with the crushing burden of knowing something to be true today and not being able to live it so then when you talk about people in a family that is a you know a mother and a father being somehow healthier for children I I come back to so much of the health in our families and in our lives has to do with everything else in our social stigma that were in it so yeah you know something my reality now since my reality my true my true what's the reality the true thing is what matters to find common ground what my luxury is the truth for me it's that sense just another way of saying my truth what was the truth biologically what's the truth and all creatures are phenomenally complicated and the truth biologically is different one of us leaders truth biologically sure is is different but it doesn't make it any less human doesn't make him any less human so there is no truth just like just like an eight week old fetus is no less human than a baby and that's why I'm pro-life this is human DNA this is a genetic code this determines your show so no I don't think that anyone is less human just like I don't think so what's my family members who are bipolar I've had I've had suicides a family is that my truth is not really able to say a whole lot you I haven't really gotten many words in I haven't really able to express my opinion but I've continued well I wanted love and then I think my truth and the truth is the question that I'm trying to figure out yes that what I hear from you and you keep saying what is the truth is that there is one singular answer for what it means to be human or what it means to be male what email we're specifically discussing gender on that for gender and what I'm saying is there's not mm-hmm there isn't there's never been through history there's never been when you look at literature all the way back into the Bible it reflects you know the historical record reflects that there our biology our humanity has always been beautifully complicated so it's not this is not I don't disagree with that statement but I do disagree with the idea that gender is a spectrum and that there's in a limitless amount I just disagree with that yeah Danielle thank you Dan I appreciate you taking the time I hope I hope this has been productive for you as well as myself I really do appreciate you sitting down and we're having a civil dialogue even if we disagree listen honesty about civility and I think you should have but at night Emmett or a request yes is that imagine a world where people were debating whether you were as legitimate from your humanity he hates you I'm not debating this here legitimate in your humanity and just as I'm not debating that somewhat that my relative was bipolar illegitimate she met I'm saying imagine a world where you are yeah but I'm not I'm not suggesting you I'm talking about our society right I think your mishegoss Turing I think if someone says there's two genders you think that's demonization I think that's an event I think I'm asking you go into your heads be sure imagine navigating the world yeah where people come up and actually challenge your legitimacy yeah which I which I've done my truth well I'm sure which I've done I'll grant you that I've done yeah and like imagine living in that space where strangers sure can debate whether and on yours yeah it's not about legitimate it's about the truth they're debating as to whether that is legitimacy in the truth so what's the difference between you yeah well there's well there's a big difference when it's your truth or my truth and we're talking about legitimacy legitimacy would be much more conquering with the truth if someone says the gender is not a spectrum if someone says there are two genders and that the biological research would back this up and that I don't think it's productive to continue down this trail certainly of a limitless gender spectrum that's not quite a question your legitimacy as a human that is questioning the nature of the condition the nature of how you identify and why that is the case and the ramifications societally so then you're implying that there's something wrong with me I am implying that I believe you're incorrect I believe you were born a male and I still would believe that you're a male yeah I won't miss gender you might imagine in a world where people could tell you that you're incorrect well that happens all the time yeah it's it's just it's not a good feeling but this isn't it no I appreciate it Danielle thank you very much I think friend here would like to get in thank you very much appreciate you taking the time now enters previously mentioned Danielle's intersex employee you'll note a little different tone this is a I have a long line of ginger genetics what's your name Alicia Alicia Thank You Alicia I noticed you were there for a long while with your video Danielle nice yeah Alicia yeah my name is Alicia Alicia nice to meet you Alicia Alicia and it's funny I heard that y'all are doing this and I texted her and I was like I'm on my way should I go girl I'm already there okay okay so yeah kind of a double team action but not in like on purpose but just kind of accidentally that's weird phrasing of that too but anyway how so well I actually wanted to talk about the biological aspect that you're yeah well let me present my premise first and it's important that people anyone was here who wasn't here for the previous conversation this is designed to be a discussion that hopefully opens a civil dialogue I believe in searching for the truth I my presupposition is that there are two genders and if you would like to change my mind on that you're you're more than welcome sure well so I've heard my boss talking a lot about a spectrum not just in terms of like gender identity but also in terms of really any biological training right that humans like humans exist on a spectrum whether it's a Rachel spectrum like there's people that are half or something or whatever likes it biologically we're all in a spectrum something can grow facial hair and some can't like some of its defined by their chromosomes some of its defined by hormone levels some it's defined like we all I think you would not refute that we all exist biologically on a spectrum in terms of our phenotypes right and how how their assertion certainly differentiations between people for example you can have a multitude of men similar tall some are short some are fats and depends on my red hair brown hair yeah but they're all men yeah it's nice to when we can agree yeah well so in terms of that spectrum and where I hope that like my existence can shed some light for you I was actually born intersex which means that like you would never know this and no one who's ever you know been with me sexually would ever know this either but I was actually born with XY chromosomes and so instead of having a uterus and ovaries I had internal testes then removed from me by doctors who come from kind of your perspective and some similar perspectives that we need to normalize people to fit these like society driven standards of what a human is or should look like but so for me my question for you is if I irrefutably was born intersex like I can move it that's okay you don't know how all this I don't like to get my like yeah thank you there's another thing this whole birther thing right that's like proving birth or situation yeah the whole birther movement right like needing to show her birth certificate so I proved our legitimacy as humans I'm looking back to Trump and Obama and everything anyone related that was silly so if if it is irrefutable true that I was born intersex and that actually almost 2 percent of the world's population so 150 million individuals worldwide were born intersex a normalized through surgeries or otherwise if we are born somewhere in between in terms of our like biological trades ok then how can it not also be true that we might identify somewhere in between in terms of our gender and how that presents itself like certain people are born for example with breasts and a penis or they might have ambiguous genitalia or like me you know like I was born with like I hate that I have to sit here at a table if you're talking about my genitalia I don't believe any human should ever have to do that you don't have to well the reason I know right and that the reason I am is because there are people like you and you know that are I was about to say with respect but that don't respect basic biology people's identities and like that was kind of my biggest argument against the bathroom bill when I was arguing Skol course is like if you want to pass a discriminatory piece of legislation at least open a bio textbook first like it's not hard like right these are just like basic science okay so a couple of things there first off I hope they don't feels like forced you to sit down here in anyway you were forced me conversation and the existence of it that's what forces me because there are people who like are so fed up with having to legitimize their existence on a daily bigger when you don't have to do that right like you you were born in a way where like no one is challenging that and that's something that I read my boss talking about it's nice actually it's actually not true I would but you know we're gonna get to my personal history okay so you mentioned a couple of things there I wanna there isn't we we used to until it realized there was a legal liability of someone if maybe Danielle can get you a bottle of water because you know unless you want someone saying that it poisoned you when I would ever do that yeah sure you can understand so you mentioned basic biology basic biology textbook and then you immediately followed up with how someone identifies yeah I think they're two separate issues now I understand that your intersects we've talked about this several right so then what can i yeah so we've talked about intersect so another thing I would strongly disagree with statistically you said 2% of the population or intersects at almost every leave it's 1.7 significantly lower than that particularly in the Western civilization by much like there's only a dearth of data though as well because what happens is doctors will play God and make a decision about what biological sex a child should have and so they perform a surgery and sometimes their parents aren't even made or like with foster children right like the state makes these decisions so like so you higher than Tyson have a printout of like a biotech book with me but I don't want to argue it the only reference of biological texts are irrefutable truths right we can talk about your opinion right but like I don't want to argue with you about science sure what you haven't seen in an irrefutable truth so let's get to what the truth is so you believe it's higher than 2% 1.7 and well you said because doctors play God the number is likely higher oh yeah right exactly yeah and so and because this is also like when day two started being selected right like sure is after a lot of these decisions have been made there are people that aren't told by their parents or by doctors and don't even know until maybe they don't get their period or you know something like that sure like it helps them realize that they've been more different right so I want to make you believe is higher than 2% of you believe the statistic you've use is accurate because you just said biological truth I want to make sure information right now they're not information as I just mentioned is not necessarily fully comprehensive sure so you believe it could be higher I want to make a set I mean by God okay I would say the statistic is significantly lower from the literature that that I've read but again let's remove intersects from the table because we're talking bout transgender we're not generally talking about intersex or intersex Kleinfelds are genetic anomalies that was my question yeah let me enter your question why would their gender so so biologically there I'm not gonna be allowed to answer at any point I let me just clarify my question cuz you said I'm talking about intersex and you're talking about transgender but for me this is related because if people are born in between like in terms of physical manifestation right sure so then why should they have to choose I'm a male or a female if they were not born a male or a female like yeah that's my okay so I'm gonna go back to answering your question yeah all this was was very imperative and answering your question because if biological realities people need to read a textbook and then you mentioned how somebody expresses themselves how they identify there are two different issues I'd like to address them separately if we can because I agree well let me answer why I am going I'm answering your question people are so if we take away I'm just gonna keep talking as though you're polite here so if we take intersex and when you take for example blind Felder's we take for example intersex we take Klinefelter's we take genetic anomalies that are very outside of the norm I think so for example there are some people we've talked about this earlier there are some people who are born without feet there are some people who are born with webbed hands there are some people who are born with 12 fingers and toes but if what we teach in biology class is that human beings have two arms two legs two feet ten fingers and toes we don't teach biology we don't identify biology based on certain very based on outsiders yeah we don't that's not we teach biology it's not how that's not how doctors treat biology so let me go to yours so I want to I want to separate what we were talking about there intersex and a very small percentage versus transgenderism people who choose to identify you aren't or in that way but keep because you keep pressuring me on that left let's go to intercepts let me ask you this were you among the statistical reality where you had some very distinct primary sex characteristics as intersex because the vast majority of people born intersex are not LGBTQ AIP activists they're people who are born with very clearly identifying traits it's not just right in between the vast majority have micro penis and large clitoris set internal testes and it's pretty easy to identify so what was that the case with you yes I was identified at birth as being intersex okay but not everyone is because as I meant it was a case where you were identified as a female pretty quickly at primary sex defining traits in that of a female I was I was assigned a female because of the choice of the doctor that worked on me right but like I was born in between so for me like a doctor made a choice that even though I was born in between even though they knew because of a what's like amniocentesis so they knew before I was born that I had X Y chromosomes but because I was born with a vagina they knew that I was intersex but because there's a doctor again who plays God and makes the decision because it's all what's gonna go on the birth certificate I was assigned a female over okay so you didn't transition later on in life no no okay so my question again for you is just I just because the statistics would reflect that the overwhelming majority of people born intersex are not just born directly in between the two there's a very clear delineation is identifying sexual characteristics of them so not too it is true but so moving on from the intersex if we remove that I think that you are I think that what you're saying is is correct I would certainly separate you someone who is born a certain way that you know more about the science of my existence than I did I'm not the literature that's there and I want to talk about our sides agreeing or being able to have productive conversations I think that maybe that's a first step in in y'all's camp is like not assuming that you know better than everyone else who deserves experience I don't just like I don't interrupt well I'm sorry you're you're interrupting my day by questioning my existence and my boss's existence so I'm not gonna apologize for it I didn't question your existence I haven't questioned your existence and I haven't interrupted you and I'm haven't said that I know more than you only you have done that in this conversation so right now we're a crossroads we want to continue with this conversation and it to be civil and to disagree record it as am i watching it now so we remove intersex and very small percentage of outliers let's say it's the 1.7 I don't agree but we'll go with that now we're addressing the transgender issue that gender is a spectrum so yes um why how many genders are there why do we go with that because it's very separate from the genetic anomalies of intercept right gender is a societal construct so as my boss mentioned there is a spectrum so some people identify purely female or purely male some people identify in-between you already talked about the different pronouns that are available and it's based on your you're something intrinsic that you are born with in your head so we've proven for example that in terms of sexual orientation that being gay is not a disorder it's just like a biological reality it's a human condition right and and being transgender is the same thing it's like you're born there's actually studies that have come out now that transgender brains more closely aligned with the gender of the brain that they identify with than the brain of how they were born can i address that sure I have a question there so you said so I want to make sure I'm not misrepresenting you're a few you said gender is a societal construct those are your words it is yeah okay so if gender is a societal construct how can there be a male brain and a female brain as you just described because there there are brains that fit like more if we're thinking about a spectrum right like there's brains that fall here on the spectrum it brings the fall here on the spectrum like each brain biologically is different like we know this because of genetic variance and so some people identify more with traits that we categorize as female and and so those brains look more similar to those who I'm sorry about we want you're taking us you said it's a societal construct and are you making a biological argument is there biologically a male brain and a female brain that are different there is biologically a brain that is closer to a binary example of how people identify people who identify as male and and and present that way their brain looks more similar and so even if they have been with a body that based on what we talked about in society or you know phenotypically like having certain like genitalia or you know gonads that like that we would say our female they're brain still looks more biologically similar like when doing a brain scan just someone who identifies as male like there's more may being that exists on that spectrum can you can you see how for me that's that's not a super clear answer I want to make sure that I don't get your presupposition incorrect there are generally male brain a lot of generally I know that like getting people to repeat the same n no it's not none of this will be ting for like an outlier that you can then cut and slice it to something none of us will be a dancer another question none of this will be edited none of it all of us from beginning to end the fist goes up if this interview but we don't put up an interview that is edited so I want to make sure that I understand your your your point of view here there are what is they're generally considered a male brain biologically and there is generally what is considered a female brain biologically gender male and female but they're just like biological makeup of the brain is not societal the biological makeup of a brain ever I'm saying you don't want to make right so what I'm saying the brain that you called a male brain or the female brain with what you did not me I'm saying is closer to that brain that that you were referred to as a male brain you refer to it that way so I want to make sure I'm correct that you believe there is a male brain generally and a female brain generally what I'm explaining my answer when I'm giving you my answer okay my answer is what you are referring to as a male brain is mold I didn't you did that's why it's important you brought this up male brain and female brain I'm trying to understand what you brought up I didn't bring up male brain like what society's referring to as a male brain whether that person was born regardless of their genitalia and their physical presentation to the world their brains are more similar in certain ways and that is because there's a spectrum of types of grains and so there's a brain that's like that and then there's a brain that's slightly to the right on the spectrum and then one that's slightly to the right of that and and there's this whole spectrum of types of grains just as there is a spectrum of types of skin color or facial hair all these different things that we've talked about right like and so what we have found is there is actually a correlation between this identity and a brain that looks a certain way so people aren't making something up it's like something that intrinsically that they are born feeling and identifying in this way feeling and identifying it that way and this is important because the biology and the identification of two very different things so I'm going to continue along the premise which you originally expressed there is I certainly grew through biology there is a biologically defined male brain and female brain they're different they operate differently there are different developments and different portions of the brain they fire differently they have different levels of neurotransmitters and they respond to stimuli differently there's a male brain and a female brain absolutely there are some anomalies there are some very very very huge number of outliers in between but not much there is a male brain and a female brain okay but the entire world exists on a spectrum and then there are limitless genders and limitless brains how do you determine what's right with the literature how do you run a scientific study if you're saying there's a limitless number of grain types and a limitless number of identification types how do you line that up as a study if myself threaten your daily existence then why do you care it does it does nothing for my existence I believe the restructuring of Western civilization based on I don't believe genders fundamental interchangeable I don't believe men and women are chained to Western civilization is right is what you're saying because they're that's a different conversation but yes really yes so the whole white supremacist and Western perception of society is what is I don't believe white supremacy is right at all well Western civilization is arguably founded by the colonization by white people of people of color that existed are right now Western civilization they are not found in wealth white supremacy at all so I believe Western civilization a civilization that allows people to live freely the civilization that freed slaves a civilization that brought you that iPhone technology paved roads plumbing the Romans of that earlier on but was very primitive yeah I believe Western civilization is right and a fundamental role in Western civilization is that of male and female and I believe that that is very important as it relates to what we teach children very important as to how we rear children very important as to how we jail people if we're going to define pronouns for going to define gender identification I think it's important if we're going to change the entire fabric the makeup to identify what it is so with that how many genders are there you'll have to excuse me that I'm having trouble engaging with someone who feels that Western civilization is the right way which is founded in these certain principles that I just mentioned it's not the only way and that America first mentality is actually what's causing the degradation and like our falling of event our status in the world American exceptionalism really or your exceptionalism of your viewpoint if you really where would eat where wait uh where would your mind it's not open to other ways of thinking what's it here's one thing if you're looking to change somebody's mind coming in very aggressive and interrupting I'm angry I'm not it but that's not a good way to change somebody's mind I you asked me a question and then I try to answer it and then you stopped me halfway through it and ask me a different question or tell me that I'm not responding to your question so forgive me if I'm frustrated yeah well I'm just trying to get clear answers to understand your presupposition and then you you were the one who brought up for example male brain female Brandon said no brains exist in the spectrum let me let me bring this up this is a very new thing you know that modern gender theory it's not an agenda non-binary where does it stem from no I'm asking you because you said it's not a new thing I'm saying it's not anything okay so where does it come you got Roman mythology there's all different types of humans if you look at Hinduism or certain religions outside of your white I imagine you're Christian correct Yeah right outside of that societal and world view there are a lot of different texts that are very very old that talk about all different types of people you talk about trans people intersex people that used to be referred to as hermaphrodites which is a phrase that that we don't prefer anymore we find it to be very triggering and offensive because of the one that has been used historically okay but it was like that I like that word right like there's a certain well not kind of like there it wasn't hermaphrodite a medical term no now the medical term is intersex because the medical community understands that certain phrases then are used to marginalize other human beings until peoples was it a medical term and so people stopped using positive medical terms so medically they're also used to be signed called phrenology which was measuring like the heads of black people and saying that they were like scientifically less than others there also it was a medical terminology while your counter to be very racist and bigoted and outdated marginal the reason I bring it up things that kind and open-minded humans do not use sure well is my response to your question well reason I bring it up is because you brought up from African compared to the n-word was the n-word ever a medical term you know I don't and the reason this matters again is yesterday's medical term is today's hate speech society can't keep up and that's why definitions matter that's why gender matters that's why biological studies not like it's so hard for those people and not the people who are marginalized yes I believe it's important I believe it's important for both people to be in a society and fun conversation I really do thank you very much you see I appreciate it I'm sorry I don't have a box of tissue let me give you let me give you a real cookie Simone de Beauvoir in nineteen forty nine that's where modern gender theory started then it goes to Judith Butler in the 80s and 90s viewer you like Samantha bee of course not because you actually made it to this end card you are a miracle of the internet I would say subscriber hit the notification button but I don't really know what that means on YouTube you might not get notified anyway but you can join up at laterthe credit com / mug club that's mukil this wonderful hand etched mug and you get to watch not only clips but the full one-hour Daily Show every single day that was redundant because I said daily but every single day but we're gonna keep it anyway because we shoot these end cards a whole lot in one afternoon we're scraping the bottom of the barrel with this one

Channel: StevenCrowder

Views: 13,621,478

Rating: 4.7791467 out of 5

Keywords: steven crowder, stephen crowder, louder with crowder, lwc, mug club, not gay jared, comedy, politics, culture, news, entertainment, funny, right, left, conservative, liberal, libertarian, Change My Mind, There are only two Genders, Two Genders, 2 Genders, Austin, Intersex, Transgender, Leftism

Id: hUrBKFG9Ilw

Length: 50min 39sec (3039 seconds)

Published: Mon Jun 11 2018