- Just a quick heads up, some of the topics that
we will be discussing in this episode are quite graphic and quite grotesque at times. This is mainly about Chris Chan and the history of Chris Chan, so-
- It's all about it. - It's... And it is a very disturbing story. I would not recommend Chrome casting this to the entire family. - Yeah, don't watch this with your family, watch this with headphones if you have to, avoid it if you're not... If you're a little bit squamish. - There are some
sensitive topics included. - Yeah. - And also we apologize if
we say the wrong pronoun for Chris, we're not
doing it intentionally. We'd be no LOL at. Yeah, thank you so much, enjoy. (instrumental music) Welcome to this episode of "Taste". I'm Connor and I'm here
with the boys as usual, Jerry and Ghana. And today we have an interesting guest, a rather unusual one I might add as well, Geno Samuels. Hi, Geno, how you doing? - I'm okay. (all laughing) - Just okay? - Just okay? - I'm very okay. - So, there's probably a
lot of people who don't know who you are or what your work is, some people might be
familiar with what you do. You do a YouTube series
on the very notorious and infamous Chris Chan. - Yes, I do. - Yeah. - It's a very extensive series. - Yeah. (speakers drown out each other) - Extensive is an understatement
from what I can tell. - So yeah, obviously there's a... If you don't know what Chris Chan is, or the law behind Chris Chan, it's a very strange tale of the internet and one that I don't feel
qualified to talk about. - I don't think any of us are
qualified to talk about it. - How would you explain
what you do to somebody who doesn't understand
anything about Chris Chan or the internet essentially? - Okay, well, I talk in
depth about Chris Chan and if you don't know, Chris
Chan is a certain person who's received a lot of
attention over the years from various online forums
and online groups for his, and then later her unusual actions and- - That's an understatement.
(laughing) - Unusual actions, yeah. - That's a very brief introduction and very simplified introduction there. Also has been bullied a lot. So yeah, I guess you could say
he's kind of the forerunner of a several online groups, several online, I guess... I don't know what. - Yeah, it's so difficult-
- It's difficult man. - To describe what he's all about, right? - You kind of have to go
chronologically year by year to really get the full story obviously. - Yeah, so this is- Oh, go on. - 'Cause I had not heard
of Chris Chan until like, I think a few months ago. Cornell introduced me to one
of your videos and I was... 'Cause he couldn't believe
that I hadn't heard of Chris Chan as someone who
had been on the internet, he was just like, "What?
How have you never heard of Chris Chan?" - Gone's been on YouTube,
since which year now? 2000- - 20... 2007 - So, basically the start of YouTube. I found it, "How dare you? How dare you be on this
website and not know anything about Chris Chan?" - See, 'cause I knew of
things associated with Chris, which we'll obviously get
into later in the video. But like I... When I heard the name Chris
Chan, obviously knowing... 'Cause I'm Japanese, right? (all laughing) So, when I hear something Chan, I think like, "Oh it's
just like a character or something like that." And then when I realized that Chris Chan was an actual person,
I was like, "Oh, okay, now this completely changes things." - So, the reason why
this episode came about and why Geno is here today is that I've been watching Geno's series. Now Geno does... Well, I call it kind of a
mountain task of documenting everything and I think what
episode, we on 59 right now, is that correct?
- It's 59. - So you have made 59,
roughly around 30 to 50 minute videos, 50 minute videos. - How many hours of content have you made? Do you even know? - Of course, many people
have calculated already. It's over 40 hours. - [Both] 40 hours! (both laughing) - So, this is a 40-hour documentary, Michael Jordan is eating
his heart out right now, the last dance, eat your
heart out, you know. 40 hours of content, and it
is just this very fascinating look into and a side of
the internet, essentially. - It's like a really interesting
just like case study, Isn't it? Almost like a person on the internet. - And I think it's just so... There's nothing like it on the internet and to have just such material,
like the sheer scale of it is really daunting and
trying to convince someone to start watching, 'cause the way I try and get
people into a Chris Chan, this whole thing is not because
I don't particularly care about what happens, but it
is almost like a TV show at this point, which we
can also get about later whether that's ethical or not and you know, whatnot. But you know, I get my
friends into the documentary, I'm like, "Please watch
this, it's insane ?" - When you introduced
us to Geno's documentary at your old place, that one time, and I saw that there was
45 episodes at the time. I think I was like, "Oh, is
this what it feels like to try and get someone into one piece?" (all laughing) - No, I was about to say
the exact same thing, (all laughing) 'cause I saw the episode,
it was really interesting. And I looked at the rest of the episodes and just the sheer length,
and I'm just like, "Oh, no." (all laughing) - It's like-
- It's daunting to me. - I know, 'cause just from
watching episode one, I was like, "Oh, this is so interesting,
I wanna watch more." But just the sheer amount just made me kind of fall back a little
bit and say, "Oh, my God." - Yeah, I think I started
watching your series around episode 9 or 10. And that's when I started watching basically whenever you
uploaded them and yeah, it's been one of those things
where the longer it gets, the harder it is to
convince people to start, (all laughing)
because it gets so daunting. I think what happened the
evening I showed these guys the series is that we'd
had been drinking a bit and we were like, "What should we watch?" And I was like, "I know
the exact thing to watch at midnight, let me put it on." - Yeah, we finished watching
all the super monkey ball speed runs and we were like,
"What else can top that?" And Chris... Cornell was like, "Watch this." (laughing) - So, we started watching it. I don't even know how to
begin talking about this topic because it is so difficult to explain if the viewers don't know anything, and I imagine the viewers don't know much. - How would you describe Chris
to someone who has no idea who Chris is? - Okay, Chris Chan is
an autistic individual, who through the process of bad parenting and their own afflictions
caused themselves to both become a subject of bullying online. And also in turn, they did
not learn to avoid the trolls on the internet, by addressing them all
the time only brought them into a bigger mess. - It just a case study of what
not to do on the internet, and that means every single aspect. - It seems like for me, from an outsider, 'cause I think out of the three of us, I know the least about this topic and it just seems from what I can gather, it's kind of like the
perfect storm of someone who has a very susceptible
to what people say about them on the internet and being trolled and just kind of the worst
trolls possible, egging them on. And you just see the result from that. - Yeah. - And that's... I mean, it says a lot when you
can make 40 hours of content and you're not even up to date yet, are you with the full story? - Not even close. - Yeah, I think there was- Obviously people might know
a lot about the recent news that happened as a Chris
Chan or Christine. (laughing) How do I even say this? - I'm only afraid to say it out loud. - Yeah, had... You know, a lot of
people like their mother, (all laughing)
unfortunately, Chris, I'm trying my best to say this
without getting demonetized. - A lot of people like them, but I think Chris- - Chris took it to- - Chris took it to another level. - Yeah. - (indistinct), but the
reason why it was so... It was covered in like a
lot of mainstream outlets 'cause it was so despicable- - It's trending on twitter as well. - It's like Chris, Christine had a sexual
intercourse with their mother who I believe has
dementia, is that correct? - Possibly. - Possibly, okay, I don't
know, but when you see clips- - But is very old. - Very clips, it's very concerning. - Almost 80, or I think around 80 now. - And you know, it's obviously... Incest is legal and the
fact that it is just insane. It is... And quite frankly, It feels like the worst timeline to be on. It felt like... You know, we can get into it
later what happened after, but how do you... You know, when you start
to introduce the topic of Christine, how do you talk about it
to people who have no idea, who wanna know about it in a sense that, okay, you've given the basics
of who Chris was back then and how it all started, but how do you describe the
documentary that you make? - It's a deep dive into
a certain individual that I guess for the most part, Chris was mostly known for the videos on YouTube for a very long time. But then I started
exploring their a quickie, which is their own dedicated Wiki based on everything they do. And I found so much amazing
information and interactions and content, which gets
ignored a lot on YouTube. So, I decided to compile
as much as I could, as much interesting stuff
as I could into video form to make it more digestible
on YouTube, and- - Oh, so you just read all
this stuff, you're like, "This is so interesting, I
wanna repackage it in a way that is more accessible." - Right, yeah. - Wow. - So, how did you get
involved in this initially? - Initially I wanted a video
series just like mine to exist, but no one had it around,
so I decided to make it myself
- Yourself. - Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. - And- Goja, go. - No, 'cause like... I guess what motivated you
to get into this kind of... 'Cause it seems like
there's an entire culture around Chris Chan right now. - Christorians. - Christorians, yeah. - What's a Christorian? - Christorian is a person who
knows pretty much everything about Chris. - Who is a part of Chris
story. (all laughing) - It sounds like a meme, right? - I just could imagine
someone (indistinct) like, "I am a Christorian." - Professional Christorian, yeah. - Do you... I mean, are you technically one or do you refer to
yourself as one or does it- - Do you identify as a Christorian? - People refer to me as the
go-to Christorian at the moment, yeah. (all laughing) - You sound under contempt
when you say that. - You're the face of all
the Christorians right now. - It's a burden I must bear. - You know those memes where it's like the people
holding up the world, the army, and they're living peacefully at the top. It's like Geno Samuel, (all laughing) the founder. I feel like it has some aspects
'cause you do seem almost... You hate many aspects of
it, is that fair to say? - I wish there was something
more to my identity rather than being a Christorian. - Right, right, of course. - But, yeah of course I can't blame them 'cause it is the thing
that I'm most known for at the moment, at least. - Yeah. - It's also... It is just your... I think when a lot of people
see that you've made 40 hours or nearly 60 episodes on something, they do think, "What drives
a man to do such a thing, to make 60 episodes?" And I think if I remember correctly, when you've been doing this, your channel got deleted
at some point, right? - Yeah. - So, your channel is
called GenoSamuel2.1, plug in the description. So, I think because it got deleted during the first ones, is that correct? - Yes, GenoSamuel2 was
terminated for bullying and harassment. - Right? - And that was for the Chris Chan episode? - That was the Chris Chan episodes, I was up to part 12 at that point, yeah. - I think this... I think
I remember this happening and I thought you were gonna
quit right at that point at some point, no? - Yeah, I did quit. Actually made part 13 and then released it on a different video hosting platform. But then after that I
decided, you know what, I'm just not gonna do this anymore. - Yeah.
- Yeah. - Yeah 'cause what I wanna know is, did you know what you're
getting yourself into when you started this project? (all laughing) - Well, at around part five, I got already 10,000 subs on YouTube. So, for that I made a Q&A
video, answered some questions and people asked, "How long
do you think it's gonna be?" I said, "I'm probably gonna
get up-to-date around part 15." So, I really had no idea about... (all laughing) - Well, yeah, because
it's just insane that, 'cause again, I've seen a
couple of your episodes, right? And it's just insane because
it's like one episode isn't just talking about one core thing, It's just a compilation of all
the things that just happened in chronological order. Like on average, how
long does it take to make one Chris Chan episode? - From the start of
writing to the publication, maybe three to four weeks. - Jesus. - Oh my gosh. - I mean, yeah. I can't think of the amount of research that has to go into it,
right? 'Cause like, yeah. - What is your research process for this? I wouldn't even know
how or where to start. - Yeah, do you talk to a
lot of people in the QNT, do you ask them, "Hey, what
happened," if you're not sure? Like what is the whole process? - Very rarely, I do talk with someone, but I mostly go through the
quickie and then the QB farms. - What's QB Farms? - QB Farms is a certain website which is focusing on
discussions around people online who do laughable things and are affectionately or unaffectionately referred to as lolcows. - Yeah, 'cause there's a
whole website called lolcows, well, right, which is separate. - As a different thing, yeah. - Yeah, there's a different website, but that is like the type of person, generally someone who
just makes a lot of drama, does a lot of very questionable things. - Yeah, my understanding
of QB Farms and lolcow was always just like a place
where people go to talk drama about certain people in life. - Well, I feel like fochan
is just unfiltered garbage that is sometimes funny, but
also extremely questionable. I feel like a lolcow, if I'm
very centered on the creators online and very much about
people who are doing stuff online, whereas fochan just do anything. - Yeah, anything goes, yeah. But wasn't... Correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't QB Farms started for Chris, like to document Chris? - Yes. - Yeah. - Yeah, it was originally
called quickie forums. - Goje, did you know that? - I did not know that.
- Oh, okay. - Well, there you go. (all laughing) - We're gonna learn a lot
today, ladies and gentlemen - So, yeah. It was originally called quickie forums and the reason it developed into QB Farms, it was because it was
during a certain dry spell of content from Chris Chan when they were not being
active online for like a year, so people started making sub
forums about other people who are similar to Chris. And then after a while
they decided to abandon the quickie forums and
then get a new domain and call themselves QB Farms, which is apparently a result... It's actually based on a mispronunciation that some other lolcows said
about the quickie forums, they're pronounced it as QB forums, so that's how it started. - Oh, right. - And so, quick is... Is that just Christian Western channel? - Chris Chan Western Channel. - Which is the name. And that is essentially the
universe or like, what... Is that what Christine bill, is that... Correct me on the... There's so much information,
it's very hard to keep track. - Yes, Chris started
building their own world, I guess during their teenage years. In late 90s, they developed this concept of a Quick Ville, which is
the city of quick Christian. (all laughing) - I'm sorry, I'm all yours? - So, there is... There's just like this whole- - It's a fantastical world. - Do you know what Sonichu is? - No. - Do you want to explain what Sonichu? - I mean, yeah. Okay, so I think quick ville
was actually before Sonichu. So, it was just like (indistinct) Sonic shoe came about as
a high school project, Chris was doing a design
class where he had to design his own CD and he wanted to
put on Sonic and Pikachu, I can't remember was
it a Sonic or Pikachu. And the teacher said you
couldn't put in any copyrighted characters, so he decided
to go around that issue, combined sonic and pikachu into sonichu. - And that became a
very iconic meme online. - Yeah, so I found out
about the whole Chris thing because I knew what sonichu was, you know, being on all
sorts of internet forums back in the day, you would
just see sonichu out of context or used in some other- - Yeah, I remember I
saw it online, it had... I thought it was a rip off. - Yes, right? So, I thought it was just
like one of those funny memes that someone created, right? And then I realized,
"Oh, sonichu is linked with this person called Chris Chan." And then that's how I found
out about the whole world of Chris, and then I just
went deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole essentially. - So, you know, when you
watch your documentary, it starts out, I mean
quite positive, I'd say. Well, not positive, but I'd say hopeful. You know, you get introduced
to Chris at the time and it kind of becomes this... You get to see Chris on
TV when very young, right? When they won a competition. And you're like, "Oh, okay,
it's going pretty well." And then you start to get into
some very personal details about Chris, which I always
found very concerning how they were... How did you get this information? - Yeah. - Because there's... When you get introduced to
Chris, you learn about Chris. You learn that Chris is autistic, that Chris is very obsessed
with games and stuff. And then somehow we get a
very detailed explanation of Chris's school life,
how they had at the time multiple girl pals, as Chris
always refers to them as, who then we all found out later, Chris's parents asked the girl pals to be friends with Chris, so that Chris had friends. - There was just so much
personal, intimate details that I don't even think
I have about my own life. - Yeah, there was like a
medical record or something or psychiatric records. - Yeah, it's like psychiatric
evaluation, right. - How was that... You showed this in your episode of Chris and I just sat there in awe. I mean, I don't even know
where mine is, if I have one. Where would I get this. - This isn't information
that should be published. - Was this all self published by Chris? - Some of it was, the
documents, the school papers, the medical records were
actually, I guess, illegally taken from their property. - Oh, wow. - It was at a point much later
in their life at around 2014 actually, there was a troll
who got into their dumpster and took out all the papers. Yeah. - Jesus Christ. Fuck (indistinct) - So, people have been
going to Chris's house and just dumpster diving constantly, and just trying to get...
- That happened at least once, I don't think many people
did that, you know. - It's kind of crazy. - Maybe just the one time, yeah. But people do go there
and take updated pictures of the house, for example, and their lawn. - So, as someone who doesn't
know much about Chris Chan as a whole topic, so what
are some of the most notable things they've done or
that we can mention, I could say that I've like gone with them, such a notoriety online. - At this point, is there anything that
they haven't reached? (laughing) - Like... 'Cause for me, I'm just like, okay, so you talk about Chris Chan being like one of the
most documented people probably in history on this one and just seeing the first
part of your documentary, I'm just like, "Yeah, I can see that." Like, I don't think someone
has had such intimate detail be leaked or put out into
a public space before, but what are some of... How did they gain notoriety
in the first place? That's what I'm so curious about. - I'll start in 2007, when photos of Chris were
posted on fochan, I think, and then maybe something awful.com. - Yeah, I remember that forum, website. - Yeah, so people connected
the dots and showed off the pictures as this is
the person who created the sonichu comics. And look at him, it was
kinda like a freak gawking. - Right, which is something awful. They should just like post
anything that was awful, quote unquote, where they
thought they would just mark it. - Yeah, yeah.
- And that was the thing. - Yeah, so that's how that started. And Chris noticed this
and started making videos, addressing rumors and
correcting the record. - Yeah, I believe one of the
most boring things it is where you could definitely tell
this is going to take a turn for the worst in the
documentary that you made is that at some point, Chris has this brilliant idea
of just releasing everything- - Yeah. - Just handwriting an absurd
amount of personal information, probably penis length
included at some point in the, you know. - So, yeah the way that she
fights back is to basically dogs herself. - Yeah, which is a
really strange strategy. - Yes. Yeah, this was in response
to the encyclopedia Dramatica page, which was made about
Chris Chan at that time, yeah. And apparently according to Chris, they were fed up because they
got a lot of details wrong. So, I wanted to correct that and adds context to
the information, which- - Sounds like a disaster. - Basically adding a footnote, it's all the information. - And Just like you see a
fire and you're just like, "Let's just pour oil on this." (all laughing) - No, that's not how you burn
a fire, here let me help you. (laughing) Jesus. - Yeah, and he called this
task information overload. (all laughing) - I love that. I love that Chris kept calling it that, it's like, I don't think
that's how it works on the internet, maybe in person, if you (indistinct) I would be like, wait, what? - Which I imagine he was kind of thinking that the encyclopedia Dramatica page would be like a malfunctioning robot. If you feed it too much
information, it's gonna explode. - Yeah, right.
- He thought that. - Maybe it's like feeding a logic bomb, it's like an alien or something, right? It's like a part two,
like a movie or something. - And encyclopedia Dramatica again, is another drama website. - Right. - It just... It's like encyclopedia
of people who have done, well drama things, it's literally just documented. There's a lot of- - Yeah, there's numerous
websites that are horrible like that. - Oh yeah, I... You know, it's unfortunate
that some people go on there and then correct the record about them, I still don't think that's
an act that's been done. I thought that most- - Yeah, that's definitely unprecedented. - Most people on there tend
to not go on there and say, "Hey guys, no, no, I
didn't actually do that, I did this instead." (all laughing) And I think... So, that's when... That's like the... Correct me if I'm wrong, that is one of the
biggest catalysts, right? To what kick started the
fascination that people have with Chris. - Yeah. And it basically fed the
trolls because they received so much information, so much personal information
about Chris and this included one particular drawing of
Chris and their friends at the time, their female
friends being satisfied (Cornell laughing) in a certain way. And yeah, that's... That got a lot of
attention too, obviously. - Right. - Yeah, I think later
on Chris also mentioned, or Christina at that
time mentioned that yeah, they thought that it was
okay to draw sexual pictures of someone because they
weren't actually taking, like doing the sexual
thing to them or something. - Yeah, also Chris in a video... Oh no, Chris in a
personal email said that, they made that drawing in order to release their certain urges instead of acting it out in person. - Wait, personal email to who? - Personal email to the female friends. - Oh Go... Oh yeah,
justification, I do remember this. This was in a previous episode, right? So they were like, "Oh, I'm
not gonna do anything to you, that's why I'm drawing
stuff so that I don't do anything to you", which must
be an extremely concerning email to receive. - This person is just like
the human yikes machines. (all laughing) Like, whoa, whoa. - Well, that's the
problem is that every time when you watch this documentary or when you're reading about Chris, which is just worrying in itself, every time you want to give Chris a chance and root for Chris, something happens where you're like fuck. - Yeah, every time she's that
close to gaining the Dolby, she does something that gives- - Especially early on, I feel like in the start of the... In the history, you very
much are rooting for Chris to just stop. (all laughing) To stop. - Just get off the internet. - You know, raising money
for charity or something. And I think that was
one turning point for me where I was like, "Oh, for fuck sake" when I was watching this. And I think it was... I don't think they do this anymore, but Chris, at the time,
would you say racist things and it was quite homophobic very often. - Yep. - And it was just to the
point where I was like, and I wonder how much of that
was due to the environment that they were raised in. - Absolutely.
- Yeah, yeah. - I feel like it raised
very difficult questions where it was like, is this your fault? Or is this your environment's
fault that you were raised in and you haven't been educated better- - Like is this how you are
or orchestrated by people- - Well, it's hard to say, because I feel that they're
very impressionable person, I felt like you can definitely
tell whatever that was told to them as a child was
stuck with them quite a lot. It's a very conflicting thing, especially 'cause Chris does have autism, quite severe autism. You almost want to justify certain things, but then every single
time you want to justify, well, I'm sure it's... Something else happens, where
you're like, "For fuck sake, I am trying my best to
want you to do good- - I'll try to be on your side.
- I'm trying my best here. - Yeah, I'm just like,
you know that domino meme. - Yeah, it is literally that. It is literally the massive domino. - Like Chris Chan draws
Sonichu and then it ends with sleeping with his mother. (all laughing) Like, I'm just like what
happened in between? How did we get to this point? 'Cause you know, it's... I don't even know where to begin about, 'cause I do want the viewers
to kind of understand the certain milestones, if you will, and kind of run through it, just so- - The notable points - Just so that people can kind of... Who don't know anything about it, can understand roughly the timeline. So, in 2007, this all started, right? - Correct. - And I don't know when
the trolling saga started, but it felt like it
lasted a millennia, so- - What's the trolling saga? - I feel like there was like 30 episodes where it was just trolling. - I mean, yeah. - There was so- - It was 30 episodes, but it's like in the span of
two years, chronologically. - Yeah, it's... The problem
is, is that there is, I feel like the recent
history of Christine has been very not well... No, not well. - I think you meant to say Chris story. - 'Cause the Chris story is a- - Correct terminology. - There's not as much essentially. I feel like there was a lot
more recordings of trolling and staff and just the amount of it. - There's a lot still, but it's mostly confined
to long Twitter rants and a threads on Twitter
and not that many videos, which I guess is not as
entertaining to most people. - So, what kind of trolling
are we talking about here? - Oh, there's some egregious stuff. Do you wanna?
- Oh, sure. Things really started to kick
off in around 2008 I guess, when trolls decided to
pretend to be females online, interested in Chris- - (indistinct) - Which is-
- Right, right. - Yes, of course. And that to happen many times actually, Chris kept falling for it every time, which was unfortunate- - Every single time. - Every single time. - So, you think like, even... It's like how many times. - They wanted to- - Have 10th catfish? (all laughing) - It's like how many
catfishes before you're like, "I've seen this one before,
this looks awfully familiar." You know, one thing as well, that is really concerning about Chris and this whole documentary, especially at the earlier
years is just how much Chris wants to have sex. - Yeah, I like... 'Cause I think that's the
only way that you could fall for catfish that many times, right? - It's just very uncomfortable. - She's just once a girl. - Yeah, how did he refer
to girls at that point? Because I remember the- - A boyfriend free girl. - [Both] Boyfriend free girl. (both laughing) - We need an entire encyclopedia- - This is like... This podcast will not do it justice. Hopefully what we can do is
give you a basic introduction and a quick rundown of
the important events and that if you really enjoy, or you are extremely
intrigued by what you hear, you can go and watch
Geno's videos about it, but we'll talk about it. And yeah, boyfriend free girl
is one of my favorite phrases of all time. - By the way, that's
officially called a quickism. - Oh, okay. - A quickism? - A quickism. (laughing) - So, these are all words that are used? - Used by Chris. Invented by Chris, kind of quick. - It's like... It sounds like a story,
like a made up Story. - You know, the thing
that's very concerning about Chris Chan the whole thing is particularly earlier on it's the way that he talks about sex is
very much almost like watching a caveman speak about sex. - Yeah.
- Right. - It's like, I need... I want sex. It's just like there's no emotion. - No intimacy or anything. - There's no mention of wanting
to be close with someone. It's just, I just want to have sex. - It's not so much like I wanna make love, it's more like, I just wanna procreate. - Yeah. - Like vibe, right? - Yeah, it's really strange. And I think that also starts, like you said, it starts
the trolling saga, which has some really
disgusting points which I read. So, they start trolling
with the cat fishing and then it goes. - We're not at the discussing point yet? - Oh no. - What? What? - It depends what flavor of... 'Cause, I feel like there's
a little bit for everyone and sort of disgusting. - What is this, an ITM repeat? (all laughing) Just a little something for everyone. - Whichever thing disgust you the most, at some point, Chris has
been involved with that. Like whichever thing disgust
you, whether it be... I think one thing that I
think was the first thing that happened, that really
caught me off guard, and I knew that this
documentary was not going in good places. I can't remember if this was
the first or what, there is... Many of the trolls, I... Correct me if I'm wrong here. When they pretend to be
boyfriend and girlfriend, they would like convince Chris that they were like almost
dating, is that right? - Right.
- Right. - Then they would ask Chris for videos of him doing certain things at the time. - Videos and pictures, yes. Close-up pictures of
certain body parts, yes. - Yeah, and I just remember
I was taking a bath one time, watching this documentary. (all laughing) I was just like, clearly just chilling, 'cause you have a nice bath
of Japan, I was chilling. And I just remember it was like, and then Chris bought the
cake and then filmed himself sitting on it, and I was like, "What?" So... - And then you had to scrub harder. (all laughing) - And I was like (screaming). - I'm not clean enough. - I'm not clean enough - So, why did this all happen? - I think it's just the way to see what Chris actually do this, just to challenge
Christian in a way as well. And I guess this also
comes as a consequence to the state of venture at that time where you could be
anonymous a lot more easily. - Yeah, it was very open. - I mean, sounds like
they were limit testing. - Well, it was like that, that year it was like
the wild west as well where everyone became- (speakers drown out each other) - Yeah, mid 2000s incident was terrified. - Yeah, that was-
- Oh my God. I remember mid-2000s internet man, It was literally like the lawless place- - 'Cause I think at the time I was mostly on new grounds at the time. And that place was truly like... If it was the wild west, there would be duals
happening left and right, people getting shot down. - Yeah, and this was
for two years, mainly. The main... - Mostly two years. - And was this because
Chris's just extremely active in responding or was this
because there was just a lot more of it, like a lot more
trolls than there is now. What was the reason why
there was just so much in those two years, do you think? - Well, it helps that Chris provided many entertaining videos,
I kind of created content for them to laugh at. There was this certain group, a very close knit group
called the private developer of corrupted citizens. (all laughing) - Like, I don't even know
if you're making it up. - It's almost tragic with the- - I feel like I'm being trolled
right now. (all laughing) - It's sad that a lot of the trolls sometime just seem as
pathetic as Chris sometimes. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And watching this, you're like, "I don't know who's more pathetic. The guy trying to get Chris
rubbing a cake in his ass video or Chris, it's... I can't decide. - Just how you feel when
I'm talking about fate. - Yeah, this is as difficult
as fate to get into, I think. - The Chris law is more
(speakers drown out each other) - I think Chris law is in
his own world in this one. - Yeah, definitely. - Evening Wiebes, baby man here. And today's episode is sponsored by honey. You know how these podcasts ads go, we read the spear blah-blah-blah. We will give you a promo code at the ends, but this one's different
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sponsoring this episode. Back to the video. - So, this trolling group, the PVCC, which is actually named
after a thing in Sonichu, the comic series. So, Chris made this name
up, it wasn't the trolls. The PVCC was also the name
of their community college, or the Piedmont Virginia community college renamed as the private
Villa of crypted citizens. Because to Chris, that college
symbolized a very dark time in their history because
the Dean of the school prevented Chris from posting
an attraction sign on the wall, asking or looking for a girlfriend. - Chris would often post
signs across the school and then also around their
area and just advertising that they wanted a
boyfriend free girl, right? - Yes.
- Wow. - It's very strange because
I think the lack of awareness is just always the Achilles
heel came to Chris. And I believe, for example, there was a period where Chris
got kicked out of the mall. - At least once, yeah. - For putting up signs. - It wasn't signs, it was loitering. - Loitering? - Loitering with like a- - Looking for boyfriend free girl, - Right. Yeah, like- - So, Chris would approach
people right at the mall? - Yes, they would, as well,
and maybe throw a rock with the red string attached
and try to lure a girl. (all laughing) - You're making this up. - It's called the red string of fate. - Oh, right, that's popular
in Japanese culture. - I think so, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, in (indistinct) and stuff. - Literally, like your name. - Yeah, your name has in like
on the pinky here, right? - Yeah, yeah, the domain strings of fate. - But instead of a pink is just a rock. (all laughing) Just throw in people. - So, Chris was literally
fishing for girls. - That was at least one
attempt at that, yeah. - Okay. - And then, yeah, Chris was actually very
infamously dog piled on by security guards and thrown in jail, I guess for a little bit, but then released and then permanently or temporarily banned from the mall. - Right. - The local mall. So yeah, that was an issue for Chris because that prevented Chris from going to the go-to hotspot
for boyfriend free girls for a time. (Cornell laughing) - I kind of take it
seriously when you say that. - What I find fascinating, right? Is that from an outsider looking in, you want to feel sympathetic
towards this person 'cause they are getting
the worst of online trolls. But at some point, you just hear a story about something that they do. And you're just like,
"What is wrong with you?" - It very much pushes the limit
of how much accountability you put on someone, especially when Chris does
have like quite severe autism. It's very difficult to feel like, man, if this was an older person, this would be totally your fault. But also how much can you... Like I said earlier, like there's so much factors of like, you can clearly tell the
upbringing was questionable, maybe, I don't know how
good the parenting was. I mean, I'm not a parent, I can't judge, but you have to have
learned some of these things from somewhere, right? - What for you was like the sympathy line that Chris went over the
line and you're just like, "Nope, there's no way
I can review anymore", if there was. - Were you- - if there was a sympathy line. - I mean, I'm not... Personally, I'm not very sympathetic, but I'm especially not
up to the recent events. - Yeah, yeah. - Recently now it's like
there's no sympathy there. - There is like- - All sympathy is gone. - The sympathy line is just
like in the dust at this point. - Yeah, like I said, remember I was watching
it and there was parts where I genuinely felt like
sympathetic towards Chris. I wanted to see Chris do better. And then there was just a rant about why Chris hated
gay people at some point, and I was like for fuck sake. - But was that orchestrated by the trolls? - No, no, no, that was the... I believe a lot of the issues
of upbringing with Chris is the parents who were very
old when Chris was conceived, the father was 54 and the mother was 40. So, they were already
old time kind of people who didn't really
understand what autism was when Chris was diagnosed with it. And they were kind of
afraid of letting Chris go to a specialist school for
autism to treat it in any way. And just... They kind of pretended
that it didn't exist and kind of try to- - Right.
- Yeah. - I would be absolutely crushed
if I found out my parents asked someone to be friends with me. That would be... I wonder if that did affect
Chris at all, if you- - I don't m... Did Chris even view it that way? - Eventually they found out. Yeah, but at the time it was... They were very happy. It was the happiest time of
their life as they stated many, many times during their high school. - Yeah, it's almost- - What's the backstory behind this? - So, Chris had a lot of
girl pals, is that correct? - Yes. - In school.
- Who are girls, but not girlfriends, just friends who are girls. (speakers drown out each other) - As you would call it. - And you would see a lot of the pictures of Chris's earlier birthday parties would be with these girl pals. Later found out that
Chris's dad had asked, I believe maybe their parents
told them to be friends with Chris, right? - It was kind of an amazing situation where this was a later trolling attempt, I think at around 2015 or so, Chris themselves tried to
organize a high school reunion so then they would finally
meet up with their girl pals one more time. But during this time, trolls decided to pretend to be gal pals and stated in their
emails that their parents only asked them to be friends with them in exchange for like money or good grades or whatever. And then Chris asked their mother, "Is this true?" And then she answered, "Yes." They're just coincidentally got it right. - Wow. - Geez. But, I'm thinking because even
up until the whole trolling saga point, that I think
a lot of these trolls knew already so much information
about Chris's past or anything. So, it's like, did they get
it right coincidentally, or maybe there was like
some hunch being like, "Well, you know- - It's also really sad watchi... Oh sorry, go, go, go. I interrupted you, you had a question. - Oh, no, no, I was just saying I wonder if it was actually a coincidence or maybe they had a hunch of some kind to be like, "Maybe the
parents did actually do this and let's just run with this story"? - I guess it was a hint, yeah. That means how likely
is it for these gal pals to be so close with
Chris, honestly, honestly? - Right, right. - Yeah, reality is sometimes
harsh unfortunately. - I think one of the things that- - Did you just quote fantas?. (all laughing) - Reality is harsh. - Reality is often harsh. - Be whatever I want it to be. - I wasn't even aware
'cause I've never even seen the fucking meme. - You've seen the memes
you've seen the memes. - I've seen the memes,
I don't remember them. - You know, subconsciously. - That meme was living rent
free in my head somewhere. - There was the one thing
that I felt very sad about watching this documentary
is Chris has clear nostalgia and almost want to be back in high school. - Yeah. - And the fact that Chris
never grows out of it. - Yeah. - That's what really just
felt very sad watching 'cause you know, this has been going on, we have videos of Chris's, God knows however young and
going up and just never changes and always wants to be back in high school where things were simple and had gal pals. - Was their high school life good? - Probably, compared to now. - So, they claim. - Right, right. - They claim it was great
because they had gal pals and yeah, that's it really? - Also, I believe, they used
to frequent the local game store an awful lot as a
child, is that correct? - That one, I'm not too
sure about personally? - Well, I mean, I feel like when you... People have a lot more patience
when you're a child, right? And I felt that Chris
had a lot of luxuries, probably the fact that
people would probably... They wouldn't question a lot of things and they would also be a lot
very patient with some things, I'd imagine that people aren't
ready when you're an adult. People are kind of scared,
like there was a whole arc, if you will, with Chris in the game store. - Yes. - Where Chris ended up- - Arc? - Arc, yeah an arc. - There's arc's in the story. - There's multiple arcs. So, Chris used... How did this start with
Chris in the game store? 'Cause you're trying to
explain this rough arc to Gone. - Okay, Chris went to a local game store where they played games and bought games- - Pokemon trading card? - Pokemon trading cards, yeah. And could play games on
the TV as well on the way we at that time, I believe. And that's where they
met their female friends, which they later drew, you know? - Right. - In certain way. - Threw a rock-
- Yeah. (all laughing) - So yeah, in this game
place, Chris really liked this female friend and got a
way to touchy several times, way too many times, even
though she addressed this in emails privately, but
Chris continued to do so. And eventually that relationship
fell out after the image was leaked by Chris and themselves. So...
(all laughing) - It's like, who is every... Who leaked all this information? It's always Chris. - It's always Chris, yeah. - So, yeah. And after that point, Chris still continued
to go to the game store for a little bit longer before they start causing
way too much trouble with the manager getting very annoyed by their constant hogging
of the TV, of the games. Possibly even shouting racial slurs at the African-American children, so- - Every single time you
wanna root for Chris, just so you hear something,
you like for fuck sake. - Yeah. - Fuck. - You know, I get it if
like Chris tried to approach the girl to be like, "I just wanna be in a nice
relationship with you, not in like a weird way kind of thing." And then they're just like, "No, I'm gonna do the worst thing possible to try and move the relationship forward." - Had to be racist towards kids? Really, really? - It's like being a nuisance. Hogging the TV is one thing. - It's almost... It's like- - 'Cause I mean, one
thing worse than a racist, a child. (all laughing) - It's like a comic book villain a time. - Yeah. - It's almost... It's like a domino video, right? Because like it's so textbook
racist or in some ways where it's like, you can't
make this up, no one would do, no one would act like
this and sorry, carry on, carry on, the game store. - So yeah, they were banned. And after about nine months
I believe, Chris made a video on YouTube addressing the
manager of the game store, thinking that if you put his
name in the title of the video, he would just magically
see it and see this video addressed to him. (Cornell laughing) - Well, like the manager's
real name in the title? - Yeah. (all laughing) Honestly, yeah. - You know, because people
just going onto YouTube and just typing out their full name, and they're like, "Who's
made a video about me?" - Yeah. - Maybe it wasn't his
name in the title at all, it was like the stock DV, like SMQ005 or whatever. Chris started the video with,
"This video is addressed to the manager of the game
store, blah, blah, blah. And please let me back,
I learned my lesson." - I remember this. Yeah, I do remember this. - Right.
- And the manager's like, no? - Yeah, that... About half a year, maybe after
that, Chris was convinced by a troublesome gal pal or a
girlfriend online to go back to the game store and try
to get themselves unbanned. They actually recorded
the conversation privately on their person. - Of course. - Because Chris's girlfriend, e-girlfriend at the time, as far as they knew thought
it would be a very good idea. And like, they would be
able to threaten the manager with like, "oh, you said this, and"... I don't know.
- Try to use it as blackmail. - Try to blackmail. And then the manager said no, and just kicked him out again. And I think threatened to call the police. And then on the way out,
Chris called the manager a Jew and-
(all laughing) - You know what I mean? You see what I mean? - Jesus. - That happened, right? - Yeah, that happened. And then other things happens, yes. About another year after that, Chris went back to the store
with their mother actually. And this was after their
elderly father had died already. So, they went back to the
store because they saw a new banner up on the store saying, "Under new management
or under a new owner." And to realize that the
manager of the store now became the owner of the
store and became angry again, they were kicked out and on the way out, the manager of the store was
run over by Chris's car twice. (Cornell laughing) So, the thing was- - Not accidentally, right? - Well, the thing was, we're not really sure what was
the order of the situation, but both Chris's mother and
Chris themselves were driving the car and each took
a turn to run over... (all laughing) - To run over the manager.
- This is pretty horrible, this sounds like a fucking looney tunes?. - It's fucked up, you can't make this up. - It actually sounds like a
looney tunes skit at this point. - Right, right, right. - So I'm not sure who did it first, like did Chris accidentally
do it and then- - Swapped, your turn. (all laughing) Finish this job, please mother. - Or maybe they thought
that the second time, the other person driving
would cover for them, you know, like- - Right, right. You take the blame. - It was me. So, then let's run over one twice. But anyway, they were both
charged with manslaughter, no wasn't.
- Manslaughter? - No no, it wasn't manslaughter,
it was grievous bodily harm or I don't know. there was a. - Was the owner okay? - The owner was okay actually, and he actually wanted
the charges to be dropped or at least lessened. - Damn.
- Oh. What a nice manager, after all
this shit they went through. - So, we got racism,
homophobia, hit and run, is this person just speed
running hate crimes now? - There's more, probably more. - No, she's trying like 100% hate crimes. (all laughing) like get the most achievements. - It's like a bingo list of crimes. It is shocking how many
you can accidentally commit when you're really not aware. - Yeah, it's Chris Chan,
the original gamer. (all laughing) - The completionist. - Oh, God. - I mean, some people might say that Chris might be the first
let's player in a way. (all laughing) - Yeah, 'cause Chris... Christen videos of little big planet. - Chris made a video on
little big planet back in 2002 or three, and they were
narrating their actions over it, which makes like- - That's a less play. - Like one of the first
less plays ever, yeah. - Holy shit. - And the... And that review was actually
published in the Nintendo game magazine, was in the
Nintendo power was it. - [Both] Nintendo power. - Wow. - It was actually published... Actually Chris had two things
published in Nintendo power over the course of their life. - It was like an animal crossing video, if I remember correctly. - It was animal crossing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. And they were talking
about what they were doing. And one of the first things that Chris did during their narration in that video was saying that they
were a high functioning, autistic Virgin. - This is something that Chris
often mentioned very often, is, "I'm a high functioning,
autistic Virgin", which when you watch it, it's like what? You're just not used to hearing that. - That's like four words I
didn't think I would hear them next to each other. - Or someone's self-proclaimed,
which is bizarre and the whole... Like I said, there's arcs, right? And the game store is over like 10 year... I don't know, it is quite a long time if I remember correctly. - About five years now.
- It's quite a long time. - The game store arc. - And also watching this
documentary, it's kind of... 'Cause it's all in chronological order. It's concerning how often
stuff gets revisited and Chris tries again. - So what other arcs are there? (all laughing) - Well, like I said, the trolling one feels like
it lasts forever, initial. I mean, Chris is always
being trolled with it. - Did it ever stop though? - It didn't really, but there was like... I feel like- - The fourth ninja war arc. (all laughing) - Just kept going. - Yeah, yeah. It's like the Mongo arc that
you wish ended 10 years ago, but it just kept on going. And like, there's some
really apparent trolling that was done. And again, some of it is
so bad that I do still feel sorry for Chris. Like, you know, wouldn't
he shove stuff up is, you know, member at the time. - Up his member? - Did he do that or was it his butt? - It was the butt hole. - Which isn't very good. - Obviously, yeah. But yeah, this was a very unfortunate, very dark episode in Chris's life where Chris believes that
that e-girlfriend at the time was being kidnapped by their
evil brother or whatever. And also their PlayStation network account was also being hacked and held hostage. So, Chris had to choose which
one would you prefer to save, your girlfriend or your PSN account? - And which? - Which they chose? - Chris chose the girlfriend,
but by choosing so, Chris believed that they would get both because they made the right choice. (all laughing) - Like a Bible, I've
made the right choice. - Exactly, yeah. - The five pounds. - Yeah, it's the money or the Bible, the money or the Bible. You get both of you pick the Bible. - Wow. - Yeah, during the course
of of this debacle, Chris was tasked with either I think, burning their Sonich
Magellan, which they fashioned out of like Play-Doh or clay- - Very iconic piece?. - Yeah, yeah. - Either burn it or put
it up their butt hole. So, Chris chose to cut it
up into smaller pieces first because it was too big. - Of course, of course
totally understandable. - Don't bother at that point,
it's already destroyed. But don't burn it, we're
gonna put it up your butt. - They'll put it back together
afterwards, all right? - What was the logic behind cutting it up instead of burning it,
is this ever explained? - No. - It's just like, what... If you're destroying it, why not choose the
option of destroying it? - Well because you can still
put it back together, right? - Maybe Chris thought that
they didn't have access to matches. - Oh. - I'm not sure. But just kind of ironic,
given what happens later, but- - Yeah, yeah. (speakers drown out each other) You don't know? - I don't know. - I'm not sure.
- It's like one of the... It's one of the most biggest
plot points in the whole story. - We haven't even got to the plot twist? - I'm so invested in the story. - It's like one of the most
well-known plots in the story. - I might know if you remind me. - Maybe we'll talk about it later. - It's in part 39, by the way. (all laughing) - Part 39. I remember 'cause this was the
part that I was waiting for to happen because I'd
heard so much about it, that I wanted to know. I know it's insane, it's insane. So, yeah, there's... Chris put the thing up their butt and filmed it.
- Up their butt. - And obviously in your
version, you sensor it for that. - I believe it was like a
Skype call or something. So, the person acting as the girlfriend and also the evil twin brother, they were the same 13
year old boy, by the way. - 13 year old boy?
- 13 year old? - 13 year old boy, doing this. So, yeah.
- What? After the shoving, they revealed themselves
to be a 13 year old boy and that the girl never
existed, which distraught Chris. There were other-
- We are naturally. - Yeah. There were other members of
the trolling group in the call, but just listening and being muted. But after that, they came
out and said, "Jesus, stop." Like they knew- - Yeah, I remember this. - They knew that this boy
went way too far, obviously. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - It's so disgusting that you know, that only like a sick kid
would ask someone to do this. When I was 13, I think
I was just playing Jenga or something. I don't know
what the fuck I was doing, I certainly wasn't thinking about that. I wonder how do these kids do this? That's like throughout this thing, it's almost as much as Chris is doing some really apparent stuff. I always find that everyone
involved was also very guilty of doing some really heinous things. - Yeah. - And it felt like anyone
who went near this cesspit of drama was just dragged into
doing really horrible stuff. - I must say it just sounds... The entire thing just
sounds like a shit show, like figuratively, unliteral. - Yeah. - It is the worst part of
the internet in every aspect. It shows every single,
terrible thing a troll can do. It shows the terrible nature of what feeding trolls does, you know? I don't think there's... And that's why it's
almost hard to look away 'cause it's so fascinating. - Such a magnificent train crash, right? That you're just like- - It's like the train
crashes and does 10 backflips and then lands and then catches fire. - Yeah. - It's just almost like everything that... It's just so insane. And I think that's why,
again, you should go and watch Geno's video on it or videos. - Hold on, you guys blue balls
and me with this (indistinct) - So, there's the whole trolling thing. (speakers drown each other) - I don't know, is this the best talk? - So, yeah, go ahead. - So, the trolling with the
the fake girlfriend thing went on for quite a while, pretty much until Chris's father died. When- - This was two years, right? - About two or three years, yeah. So, after that they decided, let's leave Chris alone,
they've suffered enough, I guess that was their thinking. - Yeah, two years later, "I
think we've done enough damage. I think this is enough." Like it should have been
stopped at the Medallion- - Yeah, right.
- Shoved up. - Yeah, so there was a solid
year where Chris didn't do much except occasional Facebook posts. Yeah. And then fast forward to 2014, where in the middle of
the night, Chris was, I believe trying to make a cup of coffee and the extension cable which connected to their coffee maker, it was like draped over
their bathroom door and like their constant
opening and closing, like damaged the wire, it caught fire, the house caught fire. Yeah, it was a- - You also have to understand
that at this time Chris's house is a hoarder's house. - Yeah.
- Oh. - So, you know when you hoard stuff, your house just goes up in flames. - Yeah, of course. - That was the problem as the
reason why this was so janky and the reason why the
coffee machine was so fucked to begin with, is 'cause
there was no floor space. - Right, right. - And I believe there
was two or three cats inside at this hoarder's house. - Yes.
- Oh, no. - Did the cats... I
don't know if the cats... I assume the cats,
unfortunately didn't make it. - One cat died. - The weird- - Now I'm sad. - That's what's so sad about this, is that in some aspects you
kind of don't feel sorry that Chris ruined their
own life, you know? 'Cause you almost... You know, this is done by yourself, but I think the most
unfortunate part about this is, not only is all Chris's parents dragged into all of this mess, but also pets as well. - Yeah, it's just like
other innocent bystanders just got involved. - This manager got ran over, there's many points in this
story that is so sad just for... Again, it's like a vacuum. If you're involved with Chris in any way, generally not good stuff was happening. Yeah, and the hoarder's house. There's pictures of it, I'm sure we can... We can show it on screen, right? It's totally fine? - Yeah, probably fine. - It's fine. This is what it looks like. It's pretty bad, it's very, very bad. - So, was Chris the hoarder
or was it the parents? - Chris was mostly not the hoarder, actually Chris's room was the most tidy. - His mother, right? - It was Chris's mother, yeah. She was the hoarder. And actually resulted in a pretty, I guess infamous video of Chris who after posting a house
tour video on YouTube- - It was just insane to think
that you would post a tour of that place. - Yeah. - For a girl, obviously. - Right, right. - "Girl", as far as Chris knew. Chris's father found out and
demanded that Chris take down the video off of the internet, which was kind of an
impossible task to do. - Yeah. - And then during the
recording session where Chris was shouting at the
camera and all the trolls to take it down now, now, now, now, now, Chris's father walks in and
they have this little discussion About Chris's father saying, "You know, if the health
department sees this video, we're gonna be evicted. You just stuck a knife in our backs and killed us with your
video", is what he said. - Wow. - So, it was very- - Jesus. - Yeah, crazy video?. - When you're watching this video, you have to watch the video
to get a real horrible sense of scale, it is essentially
like a jungle gym. You can't... Even the camera doesn't... You can't see anything,
it's just junk everywhere. It's just too zoomed in. So, every time you're looking around, you can't get a sense of scale of anything because it's just so much stuff. And obviously, you know hoarder's houses are basically just fire hazards. I mean, there's a reason
why you get evicted because you can't do that. - That's exactly what happens, right? - Cockroaches, pretty whole. I believe the cats were
also sick at the time, is that right or they weren't? - I wouldn't be surprised. - Oh, you can't be healthy. - There were other new later cats, who became sick in the house, yeah. - Right, I remember watching
a video when they moved to the new place, which was given... Was it provided by the government? - There was a new, temporary rental place. Yeah, That was provided
by the house insurance. - And yeah, I remember there
was the point of this video where you could hear the cat and it sounded like it was dying. - God. - It sounded very bad. - Dogs too. - Yeah, the dogs as well, right? - No, leave the animals out it. - Right, it's a horrible story
and I think it puts into... You often ask the question
of how ethical is it to watch all this stuff and
document it and talk about it. Is that something you often struggle with when you're making these videos? - Yeah. I do, yeah. - Yeah. - Well, I think one thing about
your video that I could get is that it seemed like you weren't... It was just pure documentation, right? You weren't putting your opinion into it, it was just pure, "This is what happened." And this is just a pure
documentation of things you can already find on the internet. - Yeah, it's kind of just
laying out the information and kind of leaving it up to the viewer to make their own opinions
about the whole case, whatever it may be. - For better, for worse. - For better, for worse. - 'Cause I think that's
what really attracted me to your videos is that yeah again, there was just no input from
you, but also made you a quiet, kind of a mysterious figure. You always start the videos
saying like, "Who is Chris? What drives him ?" I'm like, "Who is Geno? Why is he making this video?" (all laughing) Which is why
I wanted to bring you on 'cause I really wanted to
learn more about you as well, and what drives you to make these videos. 'Cause I feel like it takes a mental toll, I imagine having to document this stuff. And there are some lines
that you have to say out loud 'cause you narrate Chris's words. - Yeah. - And There's some very funny
out of context clips of you being like, just shouting
really funny stuff, putting stuff up your ass. (all laughing) I'm so sorry, I hate to do you like that. - Is this the burden he has to bear? - Yeah. - It is the burden. - At which point were
you just committed to... I mean- - Yeah, yeah. - That way you were just committed to, I assume completing this thing. I mean, you've gotten this far, right? - I mean, I was committed
since the beginning. Imagine just... I was not expecting this to
last this long, unfortunately, but I do understand that some
parts may be a bit boring for some and just a
constant, maybe Facebook, like readings of Facebook
posts or tweets, for example, which I do cut down as well. But I find it interesting
and relevant to the story, which is kind of a conflict for me. - Every enemy has its failure odds. - I find that's what makes
your videos so compelling is that it almost feels like
no stone is left unturned, it's like every single thing is included. Is that fair to say that you
include pretty much everything. - Not really. - Not really? - Most things, most things, the things that are really not
interesting or not relevant to the development of the story then yeah, I do skip over them. - How much stuff is... When you have the episode- - Yeah. - How much stuff in between
tweets or Facebook posts is cut, like if you had to give like a ratio of like how much information makes it in or not in the video? - Possibly about 1% doesn't make it out. (laughing) - Oh, so nearly everything else goes in? It's like literally
everything goes in, all right? Wow. - I mean, it depends on how
much detail and on how much time I spend on it. Like for example, if it's a
vaguely interesting tweet, for example, I just
mention that that Chris talked about this or like
if it's more compelling, if it's more interesting, I just read word for word
most of it, for example. So, I spend more time. - Yeah, because I was about to say like, if you would've said, "Oh, about 20%", I was gonna be like,
"Geez, how much content is there on this person?" My God. - (indistinct) - I already watched your videos and I go, "Mike, this is more information
than several generations of families that have on the internet, let alone just this one single person." - Oh God, I remember... What year did Chris transition? - 2014, I believe. - Right, and it is a
very disturbing phase. - That's what I like- - Disturbing phase? - There's a lot of stuff that Chris does, and later Christine, they're
very like worrying I'd say. - Right. - What happened a lot... - What's the line of warring. - I've already had a lot of
warring things this episode. - So how did this start? We know the... How did all of it begin with Chris. - The transitioning? - Yeah. - Chris very early on, exhibited some interests
in being a female. Like for example, writing
on public posts in a troll creative forum, which was
made to appear like a fan site for Chris Chan, but
they're all just trolls. - Yeah. - Yeah, of course. - Chris said that sometimes
they thought that maybe life would have been better if
they were born as a female, but since I was born with... But since like God delivered this package, I must like fill it, I don't know. Something like that. Chris had a lot more poetic than I do. - Yeah, of course, of course. - Then Chris are leaking some... Chris was sending nude
photos to other girlfriends- Which I featured Chris trying
on their mother's underwear and bra as well. - Right. - So, (indistinct) as wearing as well. - Yeah.
- Yeah. - And then after that, another
e-girlfriend convinced Chris that maybe they would feel better jogging because they were very self-conscious about their man boobs bouncing around. So, she suggested maybe
Chris wear a sports bra. And then Chris discovered that
they really liked the feeling of a sports bra and pretty much
never took it off after that point, honestly, until they transitioned
and started wearing women's underwear full time. - Right, right. - It's like some people
suggest that may be Chris was influenced by trolls
saying some quotes exactly that Chris was convinced to become a female to
explore their feminine side. - Right. - This is questionable. No one's really sure how
this happened, but yeah, Chris started first
identifying as a lesbian soul in male body, something like that. - Okay. I'm not very well educated
on this stuff, it's very... I try to, but it's quite
a lot of information. - Yeah.
- Yeah. - And after about another
half a year or so, they fully embraced the identity
of the new name Christine and changed their gender officially even on their driver's license. So, it's quite legit at this point. And they do use gender
transitioning medication as well. - Okay. Right, right. Yeah. - I say concerning 'Cause
during the first phase, it was very much a DIY transition. - That wasn't the first phase actually, that was a quite a bit after. - Was it? - Yeah. - I feel like... 'Cause that
was what stuck out to me. - What was before DIY? - Well, Chris decided to expedite matters, first by listening to
binaural beats on YouTube. - What is binaural beats? I sill don't know what that is. - Binaural beats is a type
of like a humming noise that's supposed to influence
the way your mind works. And it's kind of change
you in this certain way, like for example- - It uses a certain frequency, I believe that it almost acts
as like a type of hypnosis of sorts.
- Right. - It a lot of... Is it bull shit? Is it... - There is actually science behind this- - Is this a well-known thing, this is the first I'm hearing of this. - This is very much like a music like- - Is it really a real thing? - I mean, there is some science behind it, but like the whole thing
of like hypnosis and stuff is very debatable. - I mean, binaural beats
making you feel uncomfortable or comfortable, yeah. I can see that happening, but changing you from male
organs to female sexual organs is (indistinct) - Chris was trying to grow boobs. - Boobs. And then Chris was actually
going to the actual channel of these binaural beats
and asking the uploader, "Will this binaural beats
video cause my testicles to develop into ovaries
or will make another video about that or something like that. - That's very sad 'cause in some aspects this is where other
aspects of the internet failed Chris, right? Like this is a predatory thing too, I don't know if they encouraged it. They said that, "Yeah, you'll
grow boobs from listening to this beat." That's bullshit. And also when you're desperate enough, as I imagined Chris was at the time, you were willing to believe it. - I mean, I'm sure Chris has
fallen more of this stuff with like... 'Cause this was after the trolling phase. - Right, right. And didn't Chris end up in
hospital for trying to... So, this is a very disturbing thing, they believed the opposite
sex organs were inside. All they had to do was cut it open and they did indeed do that, right? And they ended up in hospital. - What they cut was the
space in between the- - The dush, right? - I believe that's- - I believe that's a way to call it, yes. - I think it's called the gutch. - I think it's called the gutch, yeah. - The gutch, gutch. - Skin between the balls
and the butt, right? - Yeah, they cut that one.
- Pretty deep cut, right? - [Man] Perineum? - The perineum is anal,
there's lot's of words. - Oh, fucking no. I'm not educated on this, I
don't touch that place often. (laughing) - It is the perineum,
also called the taint. - The taint. - So, that's the acetates
between the hole and the taint. - I'm so sorry viewers, I'm so sorry. - We using scientific terms here. - Chris believed that in this
space was where their labia would be if they were born as a woman. - So, they... - So, they cut it open and posted photos. - They posted photos? - Oh, yes. - What? - Wait, after the act? Like after they cut it? - It must have looked like a crime scene. - Jesus. - That's fun to me, I
don't know. (all laughing) - Poor man. - Geno's like I've seen once. - I can't tell if Geno, if you've been broken by all of this, You've been so numb to it for so long. - It's like a war veteran now. You're like this doesn't faze me anymore. - Murder, "Do you know what sound a man
makes when they die?" "I do." And I like it. They went to hospital for it, right? - They were very reluctant
to go to the hospital because they thought they were- - They were infected, right? - It could have been. - It could have been long
enough to be infected? - Yeah. - From my understanding,
it was very worrying. - You could have like- - Yeah, no shit. - You could have done
no abscess or something and died from it eventually. But yeah, eventually trolls
convinced Chris to go to the hospital and get it checked. - Oh, the trolls convinced
Chris to go to the hospital. - Which is weird because then later on, I'd say from this point onwards
is where it used to be like, kind of like almost
torture hostage situation where it's like, "I wanna torture you, but I wanna keep you alive." Because a lot of the
trolls and I believe the... Especially what happened a
little later on was the founding member of the QB films- - Right. - Often would financially look after Chris and would help manage Chris's finances. - Right. - Wasn't it that later
there was a group of people- - People would oft... They did a go fund me right after the... Something after the- - Watchman or something, was
that what they called it? - The watchman is a different thing. (all laughing) - This is insane. So, these people who
originally were trolling, Chris ended up then- - Supporting him. - Supporting Chris and
almost being protective over who can have contact with Chris. - Right, yes. Yes, they were. Yeah. - It's weird, right? 'Cause it feels like a hostage thing. It's like, I'm gonna feed you
food and take care of you, but you're still my hostage. - This is the weirdest
core I've ever heard. - It's very strange. - Yeah, the thing is
after Chris's father died, the main trolls behind
all that kind of stopped their trolling. And then we moved on to
Kiwi farms, just like, as an observation kind of
thing, and looking after Chris. But the other trolling that
happened after that point was made by other people which
were not affiliated really with the original core. - Which then, there's like
tons of different factions of people who are obsessed with Chris. - Yeah, so who are the Watchman? - The Watchman was a group created- - Created a comic drawn by Frank Miller. - Pretty poor (speakers
drown out each other) - Watchman (faintly speaking) Anyway, Watchmen were a group, which were created for the sole
purpose of protecting Chris. - Right, right. - Which did not work at all. (all laughing) They're broken up at this
point when it was revealed that some members of the
Watchmen were actively involved with trolling Chris. - Oh, my God. - Backstabbing the watchmen. - Well, this is why it's
such a fucking mess, like every single person involved is... Has questionable motives. - Yeah, because I only
found out about the watchmen from the recent events, right? And there's like three
or four other groups, or something that were all
involved in all this stuff, and they will have their own names, and staff like that. - When did documenting
Chris really reach its peak of popularity? - Peak of popularity? - Well, now it's very popular. - Yeah. - But before this, I definitely felt like there
was an increased people who are benefiting and profiting off of Chris in many ways, by making content around
Chris in a almost harmful way. - Yeah. - This is definitely a
more recent phenomenon in the past few years, I think. - Which is... I feel like where it started, it was kind of improving and
Chris was not really involved much and people were not
really trolling as much. Then when the popularity
of documenting Chris, I swear it feels like it then became... Started going backwards, and this trolling start
to get worse again. - Kind of coincides
with the idea guys song. - The idea guys? - The idea guys. - What's that? - It's another group, another
trolling group, which- - How many trolling groups are there? - I still have the names. - There's a new one every month. - Yeah, okay. Okay, so the idea guys. - So, the idea guys were very
detrimental to Chris's psyche because they convinced Chris that all these different
alternate realities, alternate dimensions of like anime land and all these cartoons actually existed, and you could travel to
them inter dimensionally. - Oh, they were the ones.
- Yeah, they were the ones. - Yeah. Okay, okay. - Yeah, so- - And to this day Chris
still believes that- - Chris still believes that. - They can access this
different dimension. - Yes. And Chris actually believed
that at some points they were possessed by
Sonichu and other characters- - And that they were Sonichu, right? - Right.
- Or something like that. - Like they were... Like it was Sonichu
speaking through their body for a solid- (all laughing) - Don't worry about it,
don't worry about it. - It's a bad omen. - She was just like, "All
right, I'm gonna hit out, this is a bit too much for me, man." - Anyway. Yeah. Sonichu was apparently
talking through Chris's body for about half a year, honestly. - It's just like... You can't explain, it's so
hard to keep up with this. 'Cause even when we watch
the whole series in depth, it is so confusing and
there's so much stuff and we've barely even touched on the fact that one of the main aspects
of what Chris was doing was making a comic about Sonichu before the stuff was- - Yeah, yeah. - That's what really started
the whole attention on Chris, because their are comic
was so crazy and Atlanta? and people realized that Chris
was actually using the comic as a way to live out their own fantasies like getting- - Like a self insight. - Like a self... The worst of self insight, yeah. - The main character was Chris. - Basically. - So, they believe they were Sonichu. - Right, for a little bit. - And then there were all the
characters as well, right, from whatever, it was like rosechu. - Rosechu is Sonichu's love
interest and wife, yeah. (Cornell laughing) - And is also... I believe
Chris also at many points would include real
people that would die or- - [Both] Yeah. - In school or something, right? - There would be the main villains, but no one actually died actually in Chris's comics, Chris believed that
the Quick Vale was real and they didn't want
to cause that much harm to the characters because
they would feel hurt. - Right, Right. - You know, he really believed this. - I say right, right. (speakers drown out each other) - I totally understand
what's being said here. - Yes. - I'm totally following,
what's going on right now. - Also, one other thing that
I also found very boring was Chris's spending
and lack of financial- - Okay, where did Chris
get an income from? Now I'm curious. - Chris has a social security
or disability payment calls, which Chris calls the tugboat. It's about $800 a month. And this is what Chris uses
to pay off credit card debts and buy Legos, which brings
Chris into more debts. - Right. Chris gets money and immediately
spends it on toys, legos, which is very disturbing
'cause I think Chris's mother at the time, wasn't working either, very old, knit and they were
mainly relying on the income that Chris is spending. - The mother must have already
been retired at that point? - Oh, they were lay out. - No one's been working in that family since the 90s, I believe. - Right, right. - There's a very chilling
video later on where Chris is getting the mother to
promote Chris's selling of merchandise- - Yes. - And saying that they need
money for food and stuff. - There's several videos like that. - It's very concerning stuff. - Like merches in like what? - Handmade merch by Chris. - Oh, it's like the Sonichu
medallions and stuff like that? - Yeah, there were medallions,
there were signed photos, I believe as well and
stuff like that, yeah. - It's all very concerning stuff. - And I assume it's the
trolls that are buying that kind of stuff. - I mean- - Just to like fuel the fire, I guess. - At this point, are they really trolls or they just like almost like fans scout. (speakers drown out each other) - It kind of sounds like
a symbiotic relationship where Chris feeds the trolls, and these trolls feed Chris. - Feeding Chris. Yeah, it just doesn't end. Yeah. - And by acquiring objects from Chris, they become part of Christory in this- - Yeah, that's... No, no, that's so serious. These people are very invested in it. - I love that story, I love that story. - I love... I enjoy, I really enjoy
keeping up with it, but also I do feel like I'm
consuming something bad. Like I am taking part and
helping and fueling a very dark side of the internet. - But it's just so insanely
fascinating just because again, We've never had anything
like this in the history of the internet. I feel like it's so outlandish, right? Like it's... Is it a- - I know you in the history of the world? - Honestly, it's just so... Everything about it is just so outlandish, it just doesn't sound real, yeah. - I think because everything
that should have protected Chris failed. - Right. - Everything that should
have been a safety- - It feels like this is almost
like a case study, you know? - Yeah, how not to parent, how not to... - How not to act on the internet. - Yeah, yeah. - Literally a case study of
how not to do everything, pretty much. - Yeah, yeah. - It feels like. - Anything about this, just don't do it. - Do you feel... When you're... Because obviously you're
making a documentary- - Yeah. - How do you handle dealing with the, I guess the moral
implications of it sometimes and struggling with that if you do it all. - I usually don't. - Yeah, you're just like whatever, just power through. - Yeah, 'cause I convince myself that I'm just documenting, it's all right. - I agree, you know, I don't see what you're doing
is anything inappropriate or wrong by any means, right? - Yeah, because it's not
like you're one of the trolls that's pulling information out, right? - It's out there. - It already existed out there. - But I think by watching it
in its entirety or watching it in parts, you really do
just end up feeling sad about the whole situation. - Yeah. - Whereas I feel like
if you hear little bits and you get very tailored information in a way that leaves
out important details, you might be more likely to
participate or fuel trolls to join then. But if you watch, I feel like
if you watch the documentary, there's no way you can be
sitting there thinking, "Yeah, I wanna join in and troll." You're just like, "Fuck man, Jesus." - Yeah, definitely. - This video is sponsored by Final Gear. Final Gear is a maxed out RPG that is set in an apocalyptic world. It'll soon be released in the
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September 30th in the U.S., Europe and Thailand. One of the main reasons I
reached out to you and asked you to come on the podcast
is well, first of all, I found out that you lived
in Japan, which is great, very convenient for us
because we only let in person guests come on. - Yeah. - And two, obviously there
was some massive, recent news at the time of recording, this will be published a little later. And I kind of want to get
into the most recent history. And obviously if people- - Christory. - The Christory, Christory. - Come on now. - Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. - I wonder every time we say Christory, Geno's like, "Fuck". - Part of you dies inside. - It must feel like whiplash. You know, like we said
that was very big news and I guess let's talk
about the very recent his... Chris' story, sorry. - Yeah, yeah. You got it. - About it, 'cause I think
the viewers who don't know anything will be intrigued
or viewers who do know will want a little recap maybe. - Yeah. - So, what would you say
is like the very recent, where it began, I guess. So, what the arc or whatever, if you will. - So, this all started at
the end of July of this year, when a certain phone call was leaked, like a discourt voice chats. It was like between Chris
and a certain female party, a real female by the way. - An actual female. - Who was actually
obsessed with Chris, right? - That's a different female. - Okay, okay. There was somebody genuinely
wanted to be with Chris, who was in this group, is that correct? - Yes, yes, there was. But this is a different, this is a very disgusting
female, trollsome female. And they were chatting
away and Chris revealed very casually how their
recent developments in their relationship with
their mother was going and how it started and how the- - When did this development start? - I guess June or July of
this year, as far as we know. - Right? - Yeah. Chris was exploring the mother's body. - This is actually sickening. - It's so disgusting, it's so disgusting. - It's quite crazy. - But I remember when it
started, everyone was like, "Please say psych, please say this is a joke." I remember that even the
QB farms members were like, "No, no, no, I'm sure there's a mistake." - Yeah. What was originally leaked
was a four and a half minutes edits of the call, which
was very heavily edited, which originally removed all
mentions of the female party in the call, so we didn't hear her at all. So, it sounded very fake and edited. So, we thought maybe like- - A bit stitched together. - To make it sound like
that, but not later at another point, a nine
minute call was linked with the full context and no, Chris was I actually
doing this apparently. - Geez. - I was hoping that that
Chris was astral projecting and maybe in their
minds, having intercourse with their mother in Quick Valle- - You just wanna justified in
any way to make it not real. - Please don't be real. - I-
- Of course. - I know I saw that argument quite a bit when the news first broke out because the whole thing of Chris, with the whole Quick Valle thing being almost in this delusional world. So, I think the biggest argument
was that they just imagined that they did stuff with their mother. But in reality we have
no proof kind of thing, other than this call, obviously. - Yeah, Chris was talking
about how at first she said no- - Oh, no. - And how she was very confused. But then apparently Chris
satisfied her in a way that their father never could. - It's... You can't make this up. It's so fucked. - I actually feel physically sick. - Yeah, I do. I feel it's disgusting. - This is like every bone- - This is the most disgusting episode. - Like every bone in my body,
I think this is the worst. - I definitely feel we
need to put a disclaimer at the beginning of this episode. - Yeah, we're gonna have to.
- Because yeah. And what's more messed up
is that this all came out of Chris's mouth, as well. This wasn't paraphrasing or anything, this was like their voice. - It was how proud, I think Chris sounded was very disturbing and
how almost happy they were, it was very disturbing. - Yeah. - And it was just... You know, for every time you
feel that Chris understands social norms or understands the situation, there's just another one
that slaps you in the face where you're like, Chris
has no understanding of what the fuck is
right or wrong, I feel. - I feel like I've heard
serial killer stories that are less disturbing
than some of the stuff I've heard right now. This is just going like
so many stages beyond what is even comprehendible
of what a human mind can do. It's... - If someone wrote this in a story, they'd be like, unrealistic,
this is bullshit, this is stupid. No one would ever do this. And it's just like... It's just so sad. And then also Chris later did get... Is Chris currently in prison or in jail? - Currently in jail, yes. Because- - Rightly so. - Yeah.
- For incest charges, I believe. - For incest charges, yes. 'Cause over 200 people called
the local police department after that call was leaked,
and Chris and their mother were actually first separated. Chris had to find some
other form of accommodation for a while while their
mother was being checked in a health center. Chris was at a hotel and there
were lots of people outside the hotel recording and
taking pictures and waiting for a celebrity to come out of the doors. - Yeah, it was disgusting. - The trolls immediately found where they were staying, right? - It was just disgusting
these trolls doing this, like, what's wrong with you? This is not something to
try and get a scoop of, this is just tragic. - And then the police come
around and Chris was arrested publicly in front of everyone. And then Chris said that
the merge was happening, like the merge of dimensions
of cartoon and reality were happening. And I was like, "Chris, doesn't realize
what they're getting into." - No, no, no. - I mean, I actually... Because when I saw the news breakout and I think there was a
guy who was live streaming the entire thing. - Yes.
- Yeah, yeah. - It's another lolcow, if you will. - Yeah, so one of the
lolcows was live streaming the arrest of Chris. - This guy seems so pathetic. - Oh, yeah, an absolutely
pathetic human being. But like... 'Cause the guy was shouting at Chris like a fucking paparazzi,
you know what I mean? Like, "How do you feel like? What's going on in your mind right now?" And of course, you know Chris is- - Chris is smiling very jovial
throughout this whole arrest. - But what's so disturbing is that, throughout that entire time where Chris was talking
about the dimensions merging and that they have Sonichu
and Rosechu in their presence or whatever they were
saying the entire time, again, they were smiling
like they have no idea how much shit they're
actually in right now. - What (indistinct) did Chris understand about being arrested? I don't even think Chris
understood what was happening. - Also, I believe they were
plugging their channel as well while he was... Well, I think, yeah they
were plugging their channel or something like that. They were plugging their
channel in a lot of places, and you're just like,
"What are you guys doing?" - There was so much wrong
with that live stream. - Yeah, yeah. - I kinda just wanna bleach my ears listening to all this, man. - It was really hot to
sit through the footage, but my God it wasn't... Yeah, it was insane.
- Yeah, as fucked as it is, it's also super fucked to have
the sheer amount of people that are trying to just
milk this for content. A lot people were making really
terrible click-bait videos that are like 10 minutes,
didn't include anything, and will just put Chris's
name and the title 'cause it was a hot topic. - Of course. - And I believe you actually went on, you announced a hiatus
after this happened. - Yeah, I was actually originally
playing a hiatus anyway after part 60 came out. But in light of these events, I thought 59 is close enough. So I released 59, I guess as
scheduled, maybe a day after the arrests or so, and then I did a hiatus stream
saying, "I'm going on break until next year, see you around." - It was just because of the allegations. - Because I want things to cool down, I don't want to take
advantage of this situation. So, I'll back away for a bit, yeah. - I mean props to you.
- Yeah, super commendable. - It'd be very easy to
be like, "You know what? This is part of the highest search terms, the best SEO for Chris Chan right now, you know, it's everywhere. Every video about Chris Chan
is getting a million views, I could just pump it out right
now and get two mil", but... Props to you, man. I do- - That's big boy move right there. - Yeah. - Oh yeah, you won a lot
of respect points from me for doing that. It must been a tough call. I'm sure a lot of people were like, "No release the next part,
tell us about all the details." - Actually, most people
were very understanding. - Really, really? - Actually, I was very surprised. - I mean, I guess from the seriousness of the situation, right? - Yeah, when it happened, did you get like a barrage
of messages and emails? - I did, yes. They're slowed down for now. Yeah, but I probably did get
two or 300 Twitter DM's saying, "I'm so sorry." (all laughing) - I'm so sorry. - Oh, no. - I'm sorry for your loss. - It's like a personal loss, like a family member or something. - Jeez. - Jesus.
- Is this the end then? Do you think this is the end of the story? It's a very quiet part
of the story, at least. But yeah, since Chris is
in prison now or in jail actually, awaiting trial
in September I believe, there's nothing coming out of Chris. Nothing at all, so it's very quiet. It's just speculation and discussion. - I do hope the... 'Cause in courthouses in
America, you can just turn up, can't you? - You can turn up, but I believe there's
laws against recording. - Yeah, you can't record. - You can write an
account of what happened. - I somehow have the
feeling that we'll get some audio recording. - I somehow have a feeling that the trolls are gonna find a way. - They're gonna find a way. - It's gonna be so sad, this is already discussed enough. Last thing you want is 20
trolls in the courthouse, just giggling away,
watching this all go down. I don't know, it's- - Don't be that guy. - This is why this whole
thing I say is a suspect. 'Cause anyone involved
with this in most capacity is a piece of shit. - Right, 'cause (speakers
drown out each other) (all laughing) - You know, I... There are a lot of
people who are out there trying to take advantage
in any single way they can so they can get a quick buck. - Yeah, exactly, exactly. Man, it's just nuts. The
more I think about it, I'm just like this, this
would be the greatest told, fictional story of all time. And then you remember nothing
is fictional about this. - I think the most horrible
thing about this is that, this is real. - Yeah, exactly. - This is actually like... This actually happened. This happened in real life, and it's just so well documented. - And it's just like all these
events when you hear them separately, they sound like that would be- - It would be the worst
moment of somebody's life. - Right. Of somebody's, it's like
one of those things. And to think that that
all came from one person. - Yeah, that's why I think, he will say most
documented person history. I don't think that's correct. I think it's just the most
embarrassing documentation of someone in history. No one has taken as many hours as Chris, no one has self given that many hours. The sheer amount of disturbing stuff that has been self documented, you know. Serial killers haven't reached this level of fucked up stuff. - Yeah. - We've had serial killers
with more like class than some of the stuff
that Chris has been doing, which is boring to say. - Yeah. - You know, Again, the whole situation is very sad and I've never wanted
somebody to lose access to the internet more than Chris at many points. - Yeah. - Yeah. I mean, Sometimes you see people
online and you just think you should not have any kind
of internet presence at all. And I think this is just the worst example of just like what
everything that can go wrong and everything that has gone wrong. - When I found out that Chris
had a Twitter, I was like, "Oh, no. Oh, no." - You know, I feel like Chris is... Well before this, before
this drama happened recently, Chris had been pretty tame online. - Yeah. - Chris, I think had actually commented in one of our videos. - What? - I believe so. - Really? When? - When we spoke about Chris on "Taste". - You're serious? - I believe Chris had
actually commented on it. And a very normal comment. - Right. - And Chris had been pretty chill I'd say, was pretty calm about most things. - As far as we know, yeah. - Until the shit storm happened, it was the calm before the storm. - Right. - What was the arc before that then. - Arc before th... - I feel like it was mainly
like a lot of people were hoping that and Chris was, it
seemed, was getting better. And that was generally calmed down a lot, and wasn't doing as many
questionable things. Is that correct in saying. - Yeah, definitely. Right before this happened, there was a certain
book published on Amazon comparing Andy Warhol to Chris Chan, and- - What?
- Why? - Because apparently it was
a legit argument for that. - All right. - There was some interesting
comparisons there, actually I was in contact with the author before it was published and he gave me like a advanced copy, seemed pretty good, I guess. - Yeah, you went through it then. - I guess it was good, I didn't
read too much of it though. Didn't have much time, but Chris apparently did have enough time. They bought it themselves and
they were reading through it and yeah, they were enjoying it, actually. - That's what's weird, is that Chris participates
and consumes all the stuff about themselves. - I mean, in a sense there's
like kind of coolness to being compared to someone
like Andy Warhol, right? As much as like some weird
shit Andy Warhol has done in his life, but he's also an artist. And so, I think to Chris would be like, "Oh cool, someone says
I'm like Andy Warhol. That's kind of fancy." - What's most sad about this whole story is that at any point
during Chris's earlier life could have been salvaged if their parents just took
away the fucking internet. - Right. - Take away the PS5
something, just do something, like a complete lack of
parenting in many ways. - Yes. - Yeah, definitely. - How on earth was Chris
posting all this stuff online, and the parents had
absolutely zero knowledge. How did that happen? And
if they did have knowledge, why the fuck didn't they stop any of this? - Maybe because they were old age, right? It could be, maybe like a generation gap. - They didn't understand the impact of- - I don't think they
understood the internet. - I just feet like everyone in their life has just failed Chris. And it just feels like now Chris is now just a part of that cycle as well. - Yeah. - And- - Well, it's what happens
when your parents fail you, and you take... You often pick up... I'm sure we've all done it
where you've picked up aspects of your parents that you're like, "Oh God, I wish I didn't pick that up." - Yeah.
- But little things, you know? But normally with most people,
it's little quirks, you know? It's like- - Or like, it's things you say, right? - Yeah, yeah, it's small behavior, not life destroying
habits most of the time. - Exactly. - Yeah. - Scary. - It is a chilling tale
about parenting I feel, most of the time. Where do you think it all went wrong? Or where do you think
Chris was failed the most? And how much blame do you put on Chris? - That's tricky. Yeah, a lot of the blame
goes to the parents. At the very beginning,
they encouraged Chris to see the world as
against Chris, you know, because Chris had autism and
they were treated differently, because Chris had autism and
any action that Chris did could be excused because Chris had autism. - Right? - So, kind of... So, Chris was raised with this
understanding that the world was bullying Chris all the time. - Which is not something you
should teach to your kid. - So, Chris was given the mindset of, "I'm always the victim, but also I can be excused for my actions." - Yeah, because the parenting was so bad, Chris was mostly raised by
television, by cartoons- - By games. - By anime games, by pornography as well. - Right. - Chris learned most of the outside world from those sources. And Chris would often say
things that would be like cliche lines in a TV show, like, "It takes a real man
to admit his mistakes", he would say that and thinking that that
would solve the problem. - It sounds quote out of a TV show. - Yeah. - Not so much of reality. - And they were
infamously, in their videos would do the claw of fail, as they say. Like this, a threatening gesture. - Right, right. - Like a cartoon villain. - Oh, they're like "Damn." - Like, "Damn you." - And always took off their
glasses for dramatic effect, as well.
- Right, right. - It just feels like a lot
of that is also motivated by trying to have sex as well. - I mean that's- - Which is also caused by
the media that Chris consumed as this amazing goal
that one must achieve. Chris once stated in a video That some of the life
goals were driving to Ohio, which Chris completed, playing the lottery,
which Chris completed, and the virgin breaker was
still not completed yet. So, Chris was aiming to
tick that off the list. - This feels like the
monkey's palm of wishing. Chris got the wish
complete, but at what cost? - I was gonna ask before her mother, did she ever lose her virginity? - Yes. - Okay, really? - To a prostitute. - Oh, that's right. That's right, I remember this. - The prostitute arc, of course. - Of course. - I remember that. - The very... - Of course. The oldest profession in the world. - Honestly, I feel so
bad for the prostitute. - It is... Again, you present a scenario and you pick the worst, worst choice. It's like going through
heavy rain, pressing nothing. You know what I mean? It's literally the worst
outcome and the worst input in an RPG or something, it's... You can't... It's favorable, but just how
many bad decisions were made back to back to back to back. And still, Chris always found a way to get a fucking internet access. - Yeah, and it just sucks, right? Because you know, they
were given the choice and they always pick the wrong choice. And it's like, because no
one was there to lead them in the right direction, all right? - Because the trolls were
the only ones who had contact with Chris.
- Because the trolls were the only ones, and
of course the trolls are gonna lead them down
the wrong direction. - It feels like in a way that
Chris was raised by trolls, you hear about people being
raised by wolves and whatever. (all laughing) - Honestly. - Because some of this stuff sounds feral. - Yeah, it really does. - It does almost sound on like that level of just a case study
where you have a child that's just raised by wolves
except just replace the wolves- - Living in the mountains. - Replace the Wolves with like the most... Like the lowest internet
trolls you can think of, and this is what you get. - Yeah, very unfortunate as well, I think the time around Chris was raised was definitely like the whole
American pie era of films where sex was the goal. - Oh, yeah, yeah. - If you were a young boy, 16, it was like everything was about... Even when I was growing, I'm sure you guys felt the
same about everything in media was like- - Get laid, get laid now. - "Oh, my God, you're gonna
lose your virginity tonight at the prom", that's how it was, you know? - And as the movies who would say, it's always at the third date, so Chris always specified that
no sex before the third day. Yeah. - But I imagined if it came
up in the conversation, I'm sure Chris would have
been delighted, yeah. - Yeah. To add on the being
raised by trolls thing. Chris was actually given lots
of reasonable advice, I guess, by the trolls during
that era of 2009, 2010, like, "Clean up your room
and stop and get a job and get at least a part-time
job in Walmart", for example. And trolls were trying to make
Chris realize that Sonichu could never make the money
because it was an amalgamation of Pokemon and- (speakers drown out each other) So, they wanted Chris to
give up on that fantasy and be more productive in
society, which Chris did not do. - But at this point, Chris had
never been made to have to do anything that they didn't like. Chris had always just doing
whatever they wanted to do. If Chris wanted to play games all day, Chris would play games all day. So, it's kind of... I think it's hard when you've
gotten to the age of 20, 25, and then you're suddenly told, "Hey, don't play video games anymore. Don't do these things online."
- Yeah when reality slaps you on the face.
- Start working a nine to five", that's
never gonna happen. And if the person who's never
forced to do that by parents or an external force, of
course, it's not gonna happen. I only worked in McDonald's
because my parents told me it was a good idea and I wanted money. So, I wouldn't have done it. (laughing) - But what's so weird is that this... Those same trolls who were
telling Chris to get a job and clean his room with the
same trolls who were like, "Hey, you should shove
your mendolin up the butt." - Yeah, right? - I mean, what do you
think the trolls wanted out of all this, because- - It's the entertainment, probably. - Entertainment, yeah
and more sonichu comics at that time, they were
really, really looking forward to (speakers drown out each other) - It was like a hot commodity at the time. - Really? - Was it that... Why did
people want more of it? - Sonichu was more known than
Chris for a very long time as an internet meme. - Yeah. - And then now I feel like
it's very much flipped. - Why did the Sonichu cop
the comic gain popularity? - Well, because Sonichu as
a comic was created first by Chris when they were, I think from 21, from 21 years old. And it looks like it's drawn by someone considerably younger, like
a five-year-old for example. - So, Chris didn't have the
most amazing art skills? - Chris did not. - Right. Or storytelling skills
- Shocking. - Better than me. - Or any king of skill honestly. - Right. - So, that's why this
ridiculousness of the comics was the appeal for a long time. And also Chris started to
focus more on the Chris and Quick Valle rather than
Sonichu a lot of the times, and beating up- - Trolls. - Trolls and the security guards. - In the comic - Yeah, in the comic. - Yeah, yeah. - Whenever anything bad
happened in Chris's life, often it would be appearing in the comic as like a kind of, you
know, when you get insulted and then you go back home and you remember how you
should have responded, it's almost like that way. Instead of being like,
"Ah, I should've said that in the moment." Chris's like, "I'm gonna draw the scenario in which I come out on
top as the Sigma man. - It's the thoughts
you have in the shower. - Yeah, yeah. - Shampoo bottles clapping you. - Yeah, exactly, exactly.
(all laughing) - And during this time the
trolls were accusing Chris of being gay, which
Chris did not agree with. - Chris was very homophobic at that time. - Very homophobic and very, very straight, according to Chris. So to prove this, Chris drew an entire episode of the comic where Chris's character
in Sonichu and Rosechu have very explicit sex in the so-called (indistinct) comic. - How do you prove you're not gay? (all laughing) That's how you do it, clearly. - My God. - That was the thing. - But then actual... 'Cause you know, I understand
Sonichu and Rosechu, not real IP's, right? But then later down the road,
weren't actual IP's used in the- - Like Mutu was a character, right? - What? - Yeah. - Eventually, I guess I
didn't go up to the comments that far, or I think Mutu's
only married to Chris. - Yeah, Mutu is married... That's right, that's right. Yeah. (Cornell laughing) That's right. Mutu is married to Chris in
the Quick Ville dimension. - That's right. - No. - No?
- In this dimension. - Oh, in this dimension. - Sorry, Gone. Sorry to leave you there. You know, I feel like these
details aren't important. This is not an important detail. - Well then, what is an important detail? - I don't know, I think
it's an important detail. (all laughing) - Why is it an important detail? - Because we have a person who
is like, "In this dimension, I am with Mutu." - Just go to a smash tournament. - There's a difference
between meaning Mutu and being with Mutu. (all laughing) - Why Mutu? Why... - I don't know. - I think it's Mutu's hips. Damn, damn. - I've never looked at Mutu
and I'm just like damn. - He has child-bearing hips. - Of course. - It's not a boyfriend free girl. Like, is that what Mutu is? - A boyfriend free girl. - Yeah, it's a boyfriend free girl. - Is that in the pocket
description of Mutu? - Mutu have no gender. - No gender, yeah. - Oh, how very progressive
of Chris, of course. - Yeah, Chris used to
be anti asexual, so... - Anti asexual? - Oh, yeah. - Chris had a problem with people who didn't want to have sex? - Right. The gay people and the asexual people too, because I believe that Chris
was once rejected by a girl, and because she said
that she was asexual, so. - [All] Ohh. - And I think that's why. - It was kind of sad. I was like, that seems like
a very weird hell to die. - At least twice actually, at least twice. But anyway, the Mutu thing
is because of the idea guys. - Right. - The previously mentioned
trolls, which convinced Chris that they were in the
relationship with both, with both throat, threes. There's three husbands and
wives, Mutu, Magichu and Sonichu, and Chris or Rosechu. - A very progressive, I think. - Wait, what was the second word? - Magichu and Sonichu. - What is Magi channel. - Which is a different character
from the Sonichu comics, magi channel. - And they put the idea in Chris's head. - Well, yes. The marriage idea, yes. - Well-
- Why do they do this? - Yeah, why? - What did they have to
gain from convincing Chris they were married to Mutu? - For the rules. - For the lols, of course. - For the lols. - This sounds like the
worst offspring of inception that I've ever seen. - Yeah, of course. - This is literally the
worst inception movie. - There was a very troublesome
accounts during the idea guys saga where the idea guys convinced Chris that they were holding Chris or rosechu, their love interest at the time, hostage and they were torturing her. So, in order to stop
them from torturing her, Chris was forced to do many other things such as film videos urinating on the floor and then having s... - Like on a carpet or
a laminated wood floor? - I think it was the carpet.
- Ah, for fuck. - Again, the worst choice. - Fuck man, like... Okay, carry on.
- I think it was the carpet because I didn't get to
that part in the doc, so I'll get to it later. But anyway, yeah. So, then Chris was told to
have pretend sex with a pillow while all star by smash mouth
played in the background. That was a thing. - What the fuck. - I'm sorry, that's just funny. - No, it's terrible. - It's almost funny to think about, but then at the same time- - It's just the song choice. - It's the song choice. The song choice. - I was disgusted and for some reason, I heard all star mass... Smash mouth, I'm like (all laughing) I just don't know what
other kind of reaction to have, honestly. - Yeah, I don't know whether
to laugh or be disgusted. - And Chris did it obviously. - Oh, my God. - And another trolling group
at a later point leaked these videos on Chris's own Twitter. - Right. - Yeah. But anyway, also the idea guys
managed to extort over $6,000 out of Chris. - Fuck. - Okay, that's not cool. - That's not cool. - Yeah. - And this is where the
owner of the QB farms and another elite group of
former trolls got together, contact Chris-
- What makes it elite? - Yeah, elite trolls. - (indistinct) on trolls. - We're gonna put in the special forces, put in the big guns. - What is an elite troll? - We're an hour and a half in
and we never even mentioned the man in the pickle suits, I can't believe this. - Well, what? - How could we forget the
man in the pickle suits? Of course. - This was an earlier
trolling attempt back in 2009, 2008, 2009, where Chris
went on a real life date, if you will, with a female
troll posing as a girlfriend who was then snatched away
by a man in the pickle suit because Chris hated pickles
because it reminded them of penises, of course. They're super straight, so- - Right, all right, all right. - Yes, that's why. - It's not that he doesn't
like eating pickles. - Oh they hate pickles too. All pickles, eaten or just seeing. Anyway, the guy behind
the pickle suits costume is actually the
administrator of the quickie and he's one of the moderators
on the Chris Chan forum on QB farms, So he's like a big shot still. - Wait, wait, so a dude in an
actual pickle suit arrived? - Yes. - During the day? - Yes. - And took the girl.
- Yes. (both laughing)
- What? - You know what, if that
happened to me on a date, I would probably be fucking
traumatized as well. - This is so early on that I think I've forgotten about this. - Yeah, this is part 11, by the way. - Clearly a Rick and Morty fan. (all laughing) - Funny shit I've ever seen. (indistinct) - What does it have to
do with the elite trolls? - So, the man in the
pickle suit and the owner of the QB farms and another
troll got together and seized Chris's discord accounts,
which was used to communicate with the idea guys. And from there they found
all this information and they found then
the addresses and names of the idea guys, and tried to report them
to the FBI actually. - Oh wow. - Because this was extortion
of money across state lines, so it was a federal offense. - All right, all right. - So, they even called the
idea guys mothers to no avail. - I mean, 'cause I assume
they were all children, right? - Teens at least, or maybe early 20s. - Probably scared the
shit out of them though. - Probably, I think
they stopped after that. - Oh, yeah. - But yeah, there was
no case against them. Chris was still out $6,000. - Geez. - Well, they were out until
a go-fund me was established by the owner of the QB farms
to get Chris a plane ticket and to go to a my little pony
convention in California. They raised over $5,000 and
like maybe less than a week after that was the phone call
concerning Chris's mother- - Right, they were just about
to go to the my little pony, 'cause they were obsessed
with my little pony and Chris of course, and the Sonic series. And I remember that there
was a whole series of Chris complaining about Sonic in
the new series of Sonic. - Man, we missed that too. (all laughing) - Right. - That was back in 2014, God damn. - There was also like the... My favorite like troll who was the... Probably the most talented trolls, like the liquid Chris one,
is that what it was called? - That's very good. - We should just go in
chronological order, we just skipped everything. - I'm just sorry,? - Okay, it's not really
that important to the story, but also, The liquid Chris is
probably my favorite part, 'cause it's probably the
most tasteful in all of this. - I love as well how every
time a point is brought up, you say that the date like
it's a real historical thing. (all laughing) - Highest school is 1945, Germany. (all laughing) - You say between 2014,
when did all happen. - And I know how people feel
when one piece fans talk about their rocks now, it's like,
"Oh yeah, the big mama." - I'd say the only tasteful
troll in my opinion was the liquid Chris. - Yeah. - Where someone did a spot on
impression of Chris's speak... The... - Like speech pun. - Very good, and filmed videos
as Chris and taunted Chris by saying they were the real Chris. And it was very, very well done. And the way that they would speak is like, it's very good. And they would... They challenged Chris to
like a sing off or something? - Yes. How this started was liquid
Chris as he became referred to, actually started posting
videos on YouTube as Chris just for the entertainment of his friends. And then after a while, trolls noticed this and wrote
emails to Chris about it saying, "Oh, this guy's
trying to steal your identity, you should probably address this." And this is how they became
involved with each other. And to prove who was the real Chris, they would do several things. Like, for example, I mean the actual real
Chris or solid Chris, as they were referred to at this time. (all laughing) - Solid Chris? Like solid's nanny, right? - It's literally the plot
to metal gear solid, right? - Yeah, yeah. - I'm not even joking. - Exactly. - Okay, okay. - So anyway, solid Chris
posted their real address, their phone number,
their driver's license. - Proving it was them? - Yeah. - Oh, my God. (Cornell laughing) - So, why? - Because they were the real- - They were the real, only
they would know Chris. It's like that meme of someone who... When it's like, "Hacker,
who knows my address. Me who knows it longer. (all laughing) It's literally that meme. - Yeah. - So yeah, and then after that, Solid Chris decided that the
best way to go about proving this was to do a sing star challenge, where they would pick three
songs for the other to sing, or it was like something like that. But anyway, the best singer
would be voted the champion. - It's like fucking American idols. (all laughing) - It's bizarre how Chris
chose this, that's what's- - And they're amazing 'cause liquid Chris was actually a pretty good singer. (all laughing) - And very good at playing guitar, right? - Playing guitar. - So, actually just killed the songs (all laughing) and Chris was terrible. That's what was so amazing about it, is that it was so funny. - My God. - Yeah. And then, yeah. And after the contest was over according to a technicality,
liquid Chris won. And then, they decided to
call it quits and leave. And according to the liquid
Chris storyline on YouTube, he went off to get married
with his girlfriend, and then go to Richmond and then joined Nintendo
and make a Sonichu game, for example. Yeah. And then Chris was very angry with that. - 'Cause they weren't the
ones making the sonichu game. - Right, yeah. - The fake Chris. - But it was very well
done trolling, actually. It was like where you're like, "Okay, trolling isn't too
bad sometimes, very tasteful, very funny." - That just seems like the tasteful prank. - Yeah, basically, because
there's no repercussions in that, right? It's just
good fun for everyone. - No one's getting hurt. - I feel like that is just good content. - Yeah, that's good content. - I mean, solid Chris was very angry. He was really entertaining
videos, I guess. - But it's not like life
ruining things, you know? - It's not extortion money
or anything like that. - Exactly what you have,
compared to the other stuff. It's like, "Oh wow,
something somewhat tasteful." - Yeah, right. - And then obviously
there was the whole saga with Chris and Sonic. - Chris and Sonic, yes. So- - Like the real Sonic? - Sonic, the hedgehog. - Right.
- Yes. - Not the fast food chain. (laughing) - That's a different Sonic. Anyway, this Sonic, this was in relation to the
new Sonic game at the time S... - Sonic Boom? - Sonic Boom, that's it. Yeah, the new TV show and game, Which of course featured
very wild redesigns of the characters, including
a Sonic, the hedgehog with blue arms, which was incredibly
offensive to Christine. - Right, right. - Incredibly offensive, oh my God. Chris- - They were very angry, right? - Chris would rant on
Facebook and they would demand that a game store would
stop selling Sonic Boom. They would even buy Sonic Boom merchandise and break it apart and
repaint their arms tan. - Jesus. - And they encouraged a
boycott of Sonic Boom, even though they were purchasing
Sonic Boom toys themselves. So, yeah. And then of course,
they went to a game stop and they tried to change
the Sonic Boom game covers with one saying, "Please
don't buy this game, Sonic's arms are not blue." And Chris was banned for that. And then Chris went back
again around Christmas, 2014, and then they were kicked out again. But during this point, someone
noticed that Chris was there. They started filming a
short video on their phone and on their way out, Chris pepper sprayed a GameStop employee. - It just doesn't sound real. - One thing I want to know is, has Chris ever had a single
real friend in their life? Have they had like an
actual human connection? - I guess their gal pal
from the game store, which Chris ruined that with that image. - Right. - Yeah, probably that. - So, that was probably the one time where they had somewhat of a chance? - Yeah, 'cause she actually had... The friend actually had a brother who I think was also
on the autism spectrum, so she was more understanding
of Chris's needs. - Right. - But obviously not that understanding. - Yeah, pretty much everyone
in Chris's life failed Chris in every single way, which
makes this a very tragic story and a very compelling one. - I mean, it's just... It's sick, it's fucked up
and it's also sad, right? Because it just seems like Chris has just never had a proper
human connection in their life and yeah, that's pretty fucks. 'Cause everyone needs like
a real human connection. And if the only connection you're getting and the only communication you're having is with internet trolls, and not just like light
internet trolls, but like- - I think I would lose
my mind if I had that. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly, I would actually go insane, which I think Chris is right now. - Yeah. - Which might explain
why Chris is so involved in this whole dimensional merge thing and why Chris astral projects into these different cartoon dimensions like hyper dimension, Neptuna
was also very big for Chris. - You never wanna assume
someone's mental wellbeing, but you have to have great
concern when you see the stuff that Chris has of late,
he was very involved with. And even though it seemed harmless, you do have to wonder
why, what had to go wrong- - Right. - For someone to believe this stuff. - Obviously in the case
of Chris, everything. - Yeah, I remember
there's also many points with the Sonic thing was... Chris was demanding, like getting responses or
something from Sonic or something. Was there a point where they... Chris was very angry because Chris thought that they included Chris in the show. - Yeah, Chris actually did not think so, but everyone else thought so because there was this character
on the Sonic Boom TV show, which was a crazy Sonic fan, which looked a lot like classic Christian and trolls thought or observers of Chris thought it was Chris, but Chris denied it. - Right. - And it has very similar. - Wow, and I remember they would... Chris would spam voice actors
a lot of my little pony and staff and demand them to,
I don't remember too well. - Just weird demands. - That's on Twitter all the time. - Yeah, this was because Chris met them at the my little pony convention. - On a (indistinct) hour, right? - (indistinct) that was a long time ago. That was 2004 actually,
before the internet thing really kicked off, but yeah. Yeah, Chris was in contact on Twitter with these voice actresses
because they showed compassion for Chris during their
meetups at the MLP convention. - Right, which I guess tipped
Chris off the wrong way. - Chris could not let go.
- Yeah, yeah. Like I know I shouldn't be dumbfounded because this is a podcast and you know, we need to keep talking, but
I genuinely don't even know what to say. - This has just been me
like the past half hour. - I'm trying to add onto
the conversation, anything. - I just don't even
know what I want to say, like, where'd you go from here? - I don't know. - Surely there must be many
points where you're like, "Fuck, I can't do this. I can't keep documenting this shit." - Has there ever been points
where you've just legitimate gone like, "Nah." - Yeah, when I stopped
making part 13 originally, went on a break for
about nine months or so, then come back with 2.1. - Well, I mean like anything
that Chris themselves actually did that made you go, "I don't want to document this." - I mean the closest thing
was the recent events which encouraged me to go on a break. - Right. - Because you were saying... 'Cause you were saying that
the court case was September. - September, 16th was, I believe. - So, probably by the time
this episode comes out, we might have new information
about it right, at this point. - I mean at this point, I
just want the story to end. This story needs to end. - I just hope the judges never lets Chris have any internet connection. That's what I want. (all agreeing) But I also worry if the
trolls are about to find a way to do something. - I mean, it seems like this has bled very clearly into real life. I mean, it obviously has
with the trolls showing up at Chris's house and it's just... I don't know, it's like the
line has been blurred so much that there is just no line anymore. Yeah, it's... - It's the wild west. - It's like now it just kind
of seems like this is the shit you would expect to hear on
the deep web or something. But no, it's right here in
front of us for a lot of people. - Scary. - Some of the most disturbing
things I've ever heard in my life probably, especially coming out of
the internet and yeah. Like I just... This story needs to end. - I thought I've had a
lot of fucked up stories from the internet. And then I'm hearing all this today and I'm just like, Jesus. - Yeah, it's not good. It's not good. - It's really not good. - You know, one thing
that I have to wonder is quite difficult as I've experienced something similar myself, is when you're a creator
who makes something and often a certain type of video, is it difficult being stuck in the category of the guy
who talks about Chris Chan? Is that something you struggle with? - Yes. - Yeah. - I think the word you're
looking for is pigeon holes. - Yeah, 'cause I had a
similar thing when I started my YouTube career where I
was only doing a certain type of a video on a certain type of app. And it was like all I was known for and it was what everyone referred to me as that guy who does X video. - At least your username
isn't that, like me? - Sure, his show is called the Anime Man. - Sounds kind of fucked. (all laughing) Anime content. - Yeah, he doesn't watch Anime anymore. - No, no. - It's the biggest lie. - Yeah, the biggest lie on YouTube. You know, is there any... Is there like a plan? Do you have something you
wanna try and branch out to? - Oh yeah. Actually my channel is
called GenoSamuel2.1 because it's actually
originally my second channel. So, my first channel is devoted to music, original and covers. So, that's what I've
been doing a lot longer than the Chris Chan stuff. As far as Japanese things go, I guess I'm most well-known
for doing a cover of plastic love, which kind of- - You did? - I did, I did, it got
over a million views. - Oh, shit.
- Wow, nice. - That's my other thing
that I'm known for, I guess. - Nice. Geno for plastic love and Chris Chan. (all laughing) Two very different things. - Yeah. - Also there's the GenoSamuel3, which is where I post documentaries that are not about Chris Chan. - What about Yokai. - I do a series about Yokai, yeah. - Oh, cool. - Shortest videos about
Yokai and hope to branch out onto other topics. - Yeah, nice, nice. - Would you like Japanese
folklore and culture and stuff like that? Well, I simply ask 'cause
you're in Japan, right? - Mostly focused on yokai. Other docs will be about
different topics, wide range. - Yeah, people are probably
wondering why you in Japan, what brings you to Japan? - Well, I've been interested
in Japanese culture for a very long time. - Right. - And I started teaching the
language myself actually, when I was still in the school. I was learning their
writing systems and reading and writing, myself. And then, I got into a
course in university, which allowed me to do a
year abroad study in Tokyo or in Japan. I didn't know if I was
going to Tokyo at that time, but yeah. So, that allowed me to experience Japan and then decided to come again and work as a English teacher. - Nice. - So yeah, that's where I am now. Spent a year in Hokkaido, which was... I don't know. I don't know, man. - I mean, I'm jealous. - I love Hokkaido. I've only been on like vacations there so- - Exactly, exactly. If you have to live there for
a year in a very small town of 5,000 people, it's quite
a different experience. - Which is the majority
of towns in Hokkaido. - Exactly. - Most of Hokkaido is pretty desolate. - Yeah. - So you couldn't talk to anyone? I should've known it was very little. - Yeah, my Japanese
skills are not that good, and everyone's English skills
are also not that good. (all laughing) So, kind of stuck in the ruts. I was employed by the City
Hall or the Town Hall. So, then I would provide English
lessons to all the schools in the town, which was like three of them, preschool, primary
school, secondary school, or the junior high school. So yeah, everyone knew me. Everyone looked at me everywhere I went. - You're the Gujian. - I'm the Gujian, yeah. - I mean, at that point you
are just the token foreigner. (all agreeing) - Did you enjoy teaching English? - I did, yeah. I eventually got used to it
and I enjoy the fun of it. - You got used to it. (all laughing) Sounds like an acquired taste. - I mean, it was tough at
the beginning, of course. And of course, Hokkaido has
some very gruesome winters. - Yep. - Actually almost died
at one point, which was- - What? Well, do tell. - In the winter? - Oh yeah. I was at school and we
were called by a blizzard, a very terrible blizzard. And we have to send all the kids home and all the staff home. I had to walk home, of
course I didn't have a car. Over the course of the walk,
I got really cold obviously. And there was snow getting in my boots and my feet were freezing,
which is not good. I could barely walk because
of the wind and the snow. When I got to my house, I could not open the front
door 'cause it was frozen shut. - Oh, my God. - 'Cause the doorframe was
metal, so it just froze together. - Oh, my God. - So, I decided to go back out
and go to a convenient store to buy an electric lighter, in a vain attempt to
try and heat up the door and melt the ice. Along the way I got really
sleepy and I thought- - Oh no. - Maybe I should take a rest. I really wanted to do that, but then- - It sounds like hypothermia. - It is hyperthermia. - It is hyperthermia, man. I thought I was gonna lose my feet. But yeah, I managed to
struggle my way back home and pulled this out as I could, because of course in Japan you
have to pull the front door open, not push it in, which very difficult in that sense. But yeah, I actually managed
to open it after a while and heat up crazy stuff. - Did you have any lasting
side effects from that? Are your feet okay? - I'm okay. - Yeah yeah, just like your feet's black. (all laughing) I can't walk anymore. - I imagine that was very close, because I could not feel anything. There was no sensation of touch at all. - You just wanna teach English. (all laughing) You just wanna (indistinct) - I just wanted to teach English, right? - Man who wants to teach
English almost lose his feet. (all laughing) - So, how long you been in Japan for? - On and off, about four years. Spent a year as a study
abroad student in Tokyo, and then one year in
Hokkaido, two years in Tokyo as an English teacher
for an afterschool thing. Yeah. - How much do you have to
speak Japanese in your class or do you use it for your work at all? - Zero, zero Japanese for us. - What?
- Yeah. - Really? - It's an all English environment, yeah. - Oh, so all the kids
are speaking English? - Oh, yeah. - Oh, wow. - Is this like a cramp
school kind of thing? - Not a cramp school, kind
of like a afterschool, almost like a daycare. - So, you never got a chance
to improve your Japanese? - Right, yeah. (all laughing) - People are always online when you talk about living
in Japan, like, "Oh my God, you're not fluent in like
one year, what the fuck?" And it's like, you don't understand, when you're here to do certain things, you don't get the opportunities
that a normal person would get living here, you
have to go out the way. - I mean, even with our jobs as well, we're always talking with
English speaking staff, people overseas and stuff like that. So, it's very rarely that
you have to actually talk to Japanese people, unfortunately. - It sucks because you can't just, unfortunately just absorb it via osmosis. You actually have to go get this, go out and put effort into learn it. - Yeah, you kind of have to learn it. (all laughing) - It's a thing which you do, which most of us hated in school. As an adult, you have to
choose to put time in it. 'Cause one thing that you
don't really think about is how much time you have to
put into actually learning an activity, and you have to
put time and effort into it. Whereas as an adult, I don't think it's any
harder to learn a language, it's just harder to find
time to commit to it. - Yeah. - In a perfect world, I would wanna take like
a year off of my life just to fully commit to
learning Japanese, but I can't, I have a job and I have commitments. And I think as an adult, that's
just much more harder to do. - Yeah. So, you've always been
really creating on YouTube for quite a while really,
or just creating in general? - I'm a compulsive creator. - Right. So, is there like a next step
of what you wanna achieve after you're done with this documentary? - Interesting that you say that 'cause I did actually come
in contact with two producers involved with creating
content, for example, streaming services or
even Hollywood actually, concerning Chris Chan obviously. - Oh, wow. - But yeah. So, they see my work and of
course they see dollar signs after this recent debacle, so. But yeah, so we're interested in
maybe creating something. I'm not sure yet if
it's possible, but yeah, either American network or Netflix, Amazon, maybe streaming, I don't know. - About Chris Chan? - About Chris Chan. - Damn, oh fuck. - Like a feature. - Honestly, it could be... You know, true crime is
all the rage right now. - Honestly, yeah. - This is now a true crime
story, unfortunately. - This is like... This is a Netflix level story. The thing is like an avengers level three. - Making a murder looks
like a joke to this. This is like making your Chris Chan. Honestly, this is- - Like black mirror thought it was dark (all laughing)
until this story happened. - We're gonna have a five
season Netflix show about this, (indistinct) do it justice. It's... Oh my God. - Yeah. - That would be very cool. - I'm just curious, how much longer do you think
it would take to catch up- - To catch up? - To the story. - 'Cause you're at what? 2017? - 2017, yes. - All right, all right. - November, 2017. Part 60 will will go into 2018, finally. So, maybe another 10
episodes, up to part 70. Yeah, maybe. - This is like the anime adaptation, like catching up to the Mongo, right? (all laughing) - And then, when it catches
up to Demongo, what happens? Do we delay the episodes? - Stall. - Yeah, what happens? - Yeah, it's... It has to be... I don't even know how I would
feel being in your shoes. I don't know, you know. I'm sure one hand, I really want this to conclude. On the other hand, I'm like, "Oh God, what am I gonna do after this?" - Exactly, yeah. - Yeah I guess, other than the movies or any other future plans that you have or creating stuff or music- - Do you want to be done with this? - Yeah, that's a good question. - Kind of. (all laughing) But if the opportunity
arises, like for example, if I can get something done with Netflix, like I can get my name up
there, this could be like a- - A stepping stone. - A stepping stone. - Yeah, absolutely.
- Exactly. I mean, I feel like now
you must be the go-to guy for information about this. - As they say, I am the Chris Chan Guy. (all laughing) - The go-to Christorian. - You've been the only person who has been able to present it in a way that it doesn't
make you feel like you're in some weird internet forum, kind of finding out about a guy who you shouldn't be looking at. Whereas I feel that the
video is very much presented, like we said, in an objective
way that makes you not feel too bad for consuming it. Whereas I feel like if you're
reading it along, you're like, "This is weird." - Yeah, like "I shouldn't be
here" kind of thing, right? - Yeah, like "I don't know, this is wrong. Like I'm fueling this", right? - Yeah, yeah, absolutely. - Well, I mean, I wish
you the best of luck. I really wanna see what else you can do. I'd be interested in
what other documentaries you could pull off. God knows that you've proven
your dedication to a subject. I think no one can question that. - When you go deep on a subject,
you go deep on a subject. - If someone's making a
documentary about anything, I'm like get Geno, man,
that man has gone in hard. (all laughing) Massive props to you man. I have absolutely massive
respect for the sheer amount of work you've put into this. You know, I don't think I've
put one 10th about an effort, it's just something in my life. So, congrats, I guess. - Thanks. - I'm gonna go and watch
the rest, I promise. - You should, you should. - I'm on episode 10 right
now, I've only got what, like 50 episodes to catch up on. It's all right, I can do it. If I catch up on one piece,
I can catch up on this. - Yeah, I was about to say,
I caught up on one piece. I'm gonna catch up, with the rest of- - You should watch it,
it is very compelling. It's very well done,
Geno's done an amazing job. And of course, the
links in the description to all of Geno's channels,
check out his music as well. And his third channel
where he does documentaries on stories about Yokai, right? Damn. You don't plug yourself any more, anything else you do? - I'm good. (all laughing) - Well, there you go then. - Yeah, man. Geno, man, thank
you so much for coming on. This has really been a pleasure. - It's been an... What was I gonna say? - This was the most different
episode of "Trash Taste" we've ever done. - It's been an enlightening episode. - Eye opening to say the least. - This is probably the least
tensions we've ever took in an episode. - Yeah, right? It's almost a themed episode in a sense. But, yeah. - I've just- - It's definitely been
an educational episode. (all laughing) I don't know if I've wanted to be educated on a lot of the stuff,
but now I am apparently. Oh, but it is also been fascinating. - Yeah, it's super fascinating. - Yeah, I don't know what else to say. It's probably even like the
episode where I've found it the hardest to talk. - Yeah, right? - Sometimes I was just like, how do I even react to this stuff? It's... - Other than making a
just dumbfounded face. - It's just gonna be like
me making YouTube a reaction phases throughout like two hours of this. - Exactly, we should
get a thumbnail of this. - It's just like the
thumbnail faces are just like. - Just use me and Gone
for the thumbnail faces 'cause we made many this episode from listening to these stories. It's absolutely insane. - Is there anything you'd
like to say to the viewers before we end this, any final thoughts? - Final thoughts. Chris Chan's story is
very, very complicated and it can serve as a lesson
for many things in life, serve as a lesson what
not to do on the internet, how to behave in personal
relations as well. Well basically see it
and think for yourself. 'Cause that's what I really
encourage with my series is that you make your own decisions, I'm not gonna tell you what to think. - Yeah. - Thank you for bringing such a good moral to this absolute shit
(indistinct) of a story. And yeah. - But yeah, let's thank
the patrons as well before we forget, - Oh my God. Sorry patreons, we can't
(indistinct) this one. - Yeah, sorry Patreons, you
have to have your name on this. - Yeah. - But hey, if you like to
swap the show, then make sure to go to our page on
patreon.com/trashtaste. Also follow us on Twitter, send us your memes on the sub-rater and if you head our face,
listen to us on Spotify. And thank you Geno for coming along. - Thanks for having me.
- Yeah, thanks very much. - Yeah, all right. - Bye. - Bye. - Check out Geno's channel. - Bye. - Bye.
- Bye. (instrumental music)
