Teflon Sean on Beating 9/10 Murders, Alpo, Wayne Perry, Rayful Edmond (Full Interview)

okay here we go we have Shawn branch aka Teflon Shawn in the building who's the author of the book money murder mayhem and is a notorious figure in Washington DC history throughout the 80s well number one thank you for joining us today I'm pre-sales you had well is your first time here so I want to get into your whole story so you grew up in Washington DC correct oh my life okay and you had a mother she was a warehouse employee yeah hex warehouse good and I guess she also sold Avon on the side yeah you know husband was uh it was still the Middle Ages watching her yeah that was the hustle back in the 80s and hey Vaughn yeah uh and your dad was actually a hustler himself correct okay and I guess he he's from the Dominican Republic but he's half Dominican half black no he's asking he from States he from New York and uh his father was Dominican yeah as far as Dominican my grandma was a black okay and your dad was actually out on the streets yeah he was in streets like how old were you when you first started seeing your dad and realizing what he did where I I didn't when I was young I didn't he kept me shielded from he kept me away from me so I didn't really know until you know I did pass away and I started hearing rumors a lot about what was going on with him out there okay and at one point your dad got murdered yeah and this happened in front of you know I just dis depth that part of the book I had it um I kind of I fabricated that a little bit because I wanted to make the story interesting okay well how does your dad lose his life he died from cancer actually very life oh okay got oh I'm sorry for your loss hey che all right so you grew up on the 2000 block of uh the street and Izzy yeah and that was kind of a working-class neighborhood but it was down the street from Montana Terrace right down a stream so for those that don't know DC explain to me what Montana Terrace was in that time Montana turns was um a notorious housing project mine that was known for you know valise and getting a lot of money was a gold mine I was doing so in any given day you could have and I'm just throwing a number over there 30 40 people out there that can get rid of close to a kid Cody that's how much it pumped up there and that's no exaggeration anybody know about Washington anybody know about Montana turrets back then the 80s knew that that was one of the gold mines in Washington okay how big was was this was this project uh fathers radius that can I couldn't tell you but um it was pretty big it wasn't as big as you know some other projects in Washington but it was it was big it was pretty big okay and you came off the porch at 11 years old ain't 11 years old right this was 1982 correct so there was a situation in elementary school that introduce you to the whole drug game right so tell me about that it was a situation will friend of mine where he came in front of mine later and uh name-o and uh ma'am oh we was cool and most flash the bankroll on me one day you know and I'm be kind of like bump heads in the hallway you know me kind of class because you know he had a popular he was popular I was probably you know I mean and um we was bidding on each other just one day we happen to come together was about to fight and he seemed that I wasn't gonna back down saying he was gonna back down and he he asked me if I want to go start with me show me a bankroll so I'm thinking you let me as oh he stole it I didn't know nothing about the game back then you know man I didn't know nothing about it so I'm thinking he stole the money and when uh he told me he had treat me and I asked somebody to get this money from me tell me us so when he said hustle I'm like I'm still clueless like you hustle ways like mad Mart anyone going she told me on Montana no it showed me what it was you hustler I got a couple bags in my hand and it kind of snowball from me okay so he gave you five bags of cocaine initially right told you what the prices were and says and told you not to get caught exactly all right so then you took those five bags and did what I sold I so he showed me he showed me the ropes my most showed me a lot I didn't have a clue I didn't know who to sell him to nothing so I stood there me the customers and show me the books I hired went and uh during that process man I stumbled up on some notes and uh I just took off okay was this your first time being around drug addicts yeah okay and you know these are not the most pleasant people to be around so here you are an eleven year old kids still in elementary school and you're dealing with adult drug addicts all right right and you know these guys will do anything for a hit yeah what types of situations was happening early on as a kid or when doing this kind of hand-to-hand cells well I mean it wasn't a whole lot um it wasn't a whole lot of interaction with him you know I mean it's like they come and they say you have a whole half was fitted out holes 100 hours and I'm you gave him one bag he won a half you give him to it they want to hold and they they give you the money and that's it they are here so it wasn't no hold out in agony with him okay and how's the police presence during this time the police present wasn't it wasn't thick they come through you know man but the way we had set up where the older cats at the time had to set up with the police couldn't come through the alley because I'm the bird cakes the couches and the trash cans the abandoned cars that was blocking certain pathways who the stripper was hustling that they couldn't get up through that alley so when they had to come through this Street wait and run past the rec center by the tiny guy with the car by the time they pulled up a guy with the car somebody's seen him and they alerted everybody else to me they dispersed okay and you weren't the only 11 12 year old that was out there now so selling coke there was a bunch of kids doing the same thing watch out yeah okay so the older guys were kind of recruiting the young kids to sell form yeah it was that was the way it was because you know later on I found out if the older cat in the old cats get the younger ones to sell the product and they get quote you get a slap on the wrist pretty much in the juvenile system but you ain't gonna do no time but if the dog the older dudes get caught with it they're gonna get a boatload for they're gonna get a [ __ ] for the time if they get caught so that's when I was recruiting the youngest you know to do their work okay and you start out with powder cocaine in the beginning yeah do you remember when it turned it's a crack it's hurting the crack I know I know they was it was freebasing pry light 86 86 84 86 it's tough to start turning the crack around that time when I got exposed to did you see a big difference as as the crack took over the powder cocaine yeah tremendous difference because um the difference was between a coke head that snorted and a crack head that smoked it through the pipe was it was that level of gig that they was chasing when I smoked the coke you know they they get that level or geek and then when it come down they they chasing like that they're higher chasing that geek filling again so that's what make them Conti come back for that's what make the craving even more intense for okay so here you are 12 years old you're selling drugs and you're coming home with $2,000 in your pocket how are you explaining this to your mother she never knew she never knew I will hide my money it was times when uh she needed money for groceries of bill or bills or something like that where I would fake like I was going through the car wash or the Safeway hustling bags or you know me in the car wash wash your car car you know just slider a couple hundred and she was cool with it she just thought that I was washing cars or hustling bags at the grocery store now in the book you said that you saw a man get his head blown off over a couple bags of coke that your friend Sean was selling did that actually happen yeah yeah that was um that was a crazy moment in my life man I was kind of like a turning point for me to know that how seriously speaks was and how serious my senators was when I witnessed that you know I was still a kid and uh all I remember I remember like it was yesterday when uh a guy in a black trench coat came up and uh shot another guy in here with a shotgun I think I really didn't I couldn't even tell you if I saw the body drop my song fog on my bike in the holidays you know I pedaled fast my lower legs can move on that bike okay I didn't know it was a shotgun a shotgun at close range it's considered one the deadliest weapons on earth having someone's head blown off close range with a shotgun the amount of blood and gore that that must have entailed Mustaine just crazy yeah it was some it was crazy times a monetarist man you've seen a lot you know it was it was a lot going on in any given minute a person can lose their life for the smallest thing up there okay so you're focusing on on selling drugs and it got to the point where you never even went to high school never went to high school okay and you were getting arrested during this time hey I got it I got arrested at home in 88 that's my fur adult cases i catching juvenile charges but it was it was it was mr. Magnusson it was a slap on the wrist type of [ __ ] I caught my first serves adult case that um anything I've still a juvenile so I was tired of sixteen Charles is adult and that was a murder one okay and we're gonna talk about that a little bit later I just want to talk about what what led up to that so you're getting you're getting caught by the police but it's little slaps on the wrist so were you going to juvenile hall and coming back yeah yeah I was I was going juvenile facilities and I was coming back and throughout that there was that journey right there I've met a lot of guys from other section of DC that was doing their thing like I was I was at the time I'm thinking that he let me old twenty thirteen year olds it's not doing how we doing it over this side of Northeast but I end up connecting and meeting with some guys from I was sick of sex of the city that was doing it just as the same as we was doing okay and you actually met Wayne Perry in juvenile right okay and Wayne Perry was generally considered to be a pose hit man later on what was your relationship like with Wayne man was cool I wouldn't you know we wasn't we didn't hang out together nothing like that right we respected each other you know man I knew what was up with him he knew what was up with me you know we was cool that's basically it we are number you know we formed as a kind of a bond with each other out of respect for each level of because of our level of violence this [ __ ] that we was you know capable of so we we knew what we were dealing with when we was dealing with each other okay so then at 16 years old and I'm going off the book here you connected with a local hustler in the area I guess you call him Rocco yeah in your book and you end up going to New York City and coming back on a greyhound with five kilos of coke right what was that the first time you actually were dealing with that type of way yeah that's the first time I seen that that much weight that much you know man when I'm when we took that trip in New York that was the first time yeah okay so now you have a bunch of weight and you can't move that yourself so you start to build up a crew yeah you know my crew was on any given like I say how Montana was it was like everybody ate nobody was was you know starve and nobody was scratching the plate for some crumbs so let's say for instance if I got fire keys I'm breaking them down with five of my men and everybody gonna eat on the same level it ain't gonna be no big eyes door use in my circle I might be the one to orchestrate [ __ ] you know I mean I might be the one that can move a little better than them and and connect with people and and build rapport with people better than them but we all gonna eat on the same level okay and these guys were called the Montana boys right and you guys actually locked down Montana Terrace I mean now Montana wasn't locked down by no not not by one particular crew or group you know I mean it was just um you know it was different levels of [ __ ] you know I mean we did our thing I was her guys at Montana did that thing was no one big you know crew of people you had different people in different different sections of Montana turns that was doing anything as your drug operation starts to grow it attracts violence it attracts the the jack boys who don't want to sell drugs they'd rather Rob the drug dealers the kidnappers the the extortionists the dirty cops everything else like that so the violence level starts to step up you talked about in the book how you used to carry a chrome 40 with you everywhere and a bulletproof vest so you would wake up in that in the morning put on your vest and go outside every day like a war every day okay was that process like to go into that type of environment with walking out of the house every day knowing that that might be the last time you ever walk out of your house I didn't think I didn't think that way flat you know man think that this would be the last day that I walk on my height on my house and the be honest with you back then the way my mind works back then I love that [ __ ] you know I'm saying be honest with you like I look forward to coming out and going on a block and just doing my thing get with my man get with my circle friends you know and we just breathing that air mater the city was just taking that air that aroma of all the gun smoke that's in the air around DC at the time so you know it was just it just you had to experience and it had to be there to really know and when I'm talking about how to atmosphere really was you know I mean it was that [ __ ] was what we live for well we talked about the situation about how you saw someone get their head blown off with a shotgun in front of you was that the first time you saw someone get shot yeah yeah okay so at what point were people starting to shoot at you though huh I want to say men oh it was a situation where I had allowed myself to get involved in something that I was supposed to get involved with because of the early I'm from and it was some guys that uh that got into it with another group of Hustlas man for my whole never south side of Northeast and uh by me being from Montana and been you know the hitter if you will you know I mean denim they first though it felt as though that and we get Shawn out of the way then you know we cut the head off the horse in the body one fall whatever right but um it didn't quite work out the way they planned so you know many days we did well you got to be known to someone they'll get his hands dirty it came about because like I said I had a crew that was on they weren't known for violence it wasn't known for that it was known for you know it was Joey almost pretty boys they like the flattened they like the flat code letter to get dressed go to clothes message the older women and they were just real good dudes so by me being the one who had an appetite for violence I'm not gonna let nobody curry my my man my circle so I was always the one that would step up and show that this this side or this crew right here I need to be [ __ ] with my and we ain't any habit tell me what painting houses or being a painter what does that mean I'm pretty sure man you know what me I'm pretty sure you do you know I mean paint houses main paint houses okay does it mean that blood gets on a house am i off base right now I mean I mean what I do paint houses my favorite color was red okay got it so you you have this crew of people and you know people get together for different reasons than people have family ties people are you know roll with each other because of money but but you guys had a very different type of relationships a relationship where you guys would actually die for each other right you would die over death over dishonor you would you die over accusations if someone said that you were a snitch or a cooperator or or something of that sort so what exactly held that crew together to that extent we're here we'll head out who together was loyalty you know was loyalty man you know we had built this strong bond when we was kids before we even got in the game so it wasn't it wasn't like we just met guys you know when we started it we all started together we always broke together we always eat the school lunches in running out of the corner stores with bag of chips and cookies and sodas together before we even seen a dime so when we was you know doing petty crimes that way and one of us might get caught by a purse or neighbor made citizen give us up nobody never told on each other so it was always that that that the way that bomb was formed that way that lords he had built up within it within us that kept us from uh you know ratting on each other and crossing each other and violating that code of old murder if someone said that that Shawn was a snitch what did that mean in the streets that means I'm probably gonna be a dead man if that was the case but um you know that ain't with me I don't have a scratch nowhere on my honor right but what I'm saying is how serious was just the snitch jacket back then in DC it was it was it was deadly if you was labor as a snitch you wasn't going you wasn't gonna live long point-blank period and if even if you wasn't a person wouldn't play with someone's reputation that way and put a label on some buy or bad bonus somebody if it wasn't true so if somebody suspected you of being a snitch they're not gonna wait around and see if you're gonna go understand the court of law they're gonna get rid of you and be wrong later that's just the way it was do people ever get killed by calling someone a snitch yeah if it if it wasn't true if they calls him by a snitch and that person was no snitch he gonna he gonna put that work and I'm gonna give you a good example we're from a guy from killing Street Saint Benny Lee Lawson you know man man man god bless his soul but he was um targeted by some crooked cops they wanted to put a bone out on him because he wouldn't never give them with the type of information they were looking for with the guys that he was you know doing business with and when he really he wasn't giving up their information the police say okay with this what we gonna do we gonna put it out there that you a snitch and when they did that Benny when I've been a homicide division before I want to say it was a Maggie lemon and just let loose in it I think he killed like two homicide detectives in an engine like three wait you mean to tell me that the police will falsely accused this guy of being a snitch they put that out on the street and in retaliation he goes into the police station and starts killing cops facts you could look it up his name Benny Lee Lawson okay I assume he got killed by the cops no killed a minute yeah Wow okay how many crooked cops were there during that time right a lot of times the guys with the badge or just as crooked as the guys on the street man that's too many tonight I mean I don't even know him oh I just know that I'm there it was a lot of crooked cops man an exclusive DC man someone was on you know they're they're going drunk buses and get keys of coke from guys and then put it back on the blog as if they never you made the bus okay were they doing that to you nah but they did it when I found out later he did it to UM they did it to one of my partners I did the one of my parts yeah gotcha okay so when we talk about DC a lot of names ring bells and and one of them is rayful Edmond and this was like a big brother to you at one point yeah he was he was a mentor yeah oh okay so he was one of the biggest kingpins in DC right all right so was your relationship like with him in the beginning in the beginning it was some it was like big brother little brother relationship no me I remember him telling me man that um you know I mean just some pay always pay attention to my surroundings you know I mean and um stay away from the boys [ __ ] and get money so I said watch you know I mean and um I said Emma later miss certain to certain degrees with the way that he um he dealt with people you know I mean he was always he was always generous he wasn't never like the type of person that you know look down on somebody because they had less so those those particular traits and his character I try to implement in my as well and uh you know we had a we had a real good relationship in the beginning right and he was one of the most like flashy and flamboyant guys out there yeah one of them yeah okay but then he gets arrested right and after he got convicted he became an informant yeah and I mean I looked up a story you know I guess they said that it was because of his mother getting convicted but then his mother was also already arrested and some of the original indictments so he ended up cooperating and he's now actually part of the federal witness protection program i'ma say this about Redman that story that they he pumped out there but he only did it because the save his mother that's that was some [ __ ] man ray got weak you know I mean ray got weak I'm not gonna sit here sugarcoat it like I say you know I [ __ ] with him in the beginning but once you violate that code of honor and you you do that then then now I don't had no rap for you I don't [ __ ] with you at all I don't give a [ __ ] what we did the pass together or how much never had from your parents again I mean how much love I had for you in the past if you cross that line and violate that code of honor I'm not [ __ ] with you so I'm not gonna sit here and and and and you know and say that that was the reason why he told point blank Prairie he got a week may turn to a [ __ ] in there yeah week well rayful cooperated and gave information on 20 murders right did you know some of the people he ratted on yeah I knew prime majority oh oh wow yeah so all these guys that you knew were suddenly getting picked up and convicted off of what rayful said yeah it was like I say my way turn into something else man and turn into something that you know I didn't recognize no more you know I mean I had respectful for this man you know and and really looked up to him like a big brother but once he turned it to this other person and you put you you know you put a badge on per se you put a badge on are you working with the law it just it just flips how you know a person procedure now how person look at you how a person respect you now you don't get no more that so you know he'd never he never he never he didn't he didn't do it for his mother he did that [ __ ] because he got weak well right well with other people that he told on he's still doing life in prison yeah I mean you know they say about to get out song so who knows okay so during this time a lot of guys for coming over from New York and hustling in DC they're they're bringing coke over 2 DC song at higher prices and then repeating over and over again Kevin childs was one of the people that was doing that during that time and he said that at one point DC just started becoming too deadly that a bunch of his friends started getting killed in DC and the violence level was getting to such a degree that he has just stopped doing it well for people you know you knew got killed in DC way more way more than okay how many people did you know that got killed in DC exclusively I couldn't even count on I couldn't even I couldn't you know a ridiculous amount of people lost their lives in DC like I mean if I had to put a number on it I well over 30 people probably lost their lives in DC throughout the time I was dead and this was over drug deals gone bad robberies anything that falls on the umbrella selling illegal narcotics you know there's no rules ok did you yourself have any problems in DC you always have problems you know it's how you go about resolving ok do you remember that time yeah I remember you know clears date like it was yesterday ok what was it about the New York and DC guys that started true all this violence it was um it started off as a you know a good partnership between DC and New York like I had some partners that came down from New York that I'm landing at Milan senators that became like brothers to me and to this day we still you know hold a tight bond you know I mean one of my brothers that passed away which is dementia Benson you know man and um we still me and the other guys we still held on to a close bond a tight-knit bond that was formed back then in the 80s you know me so it was always love with swings I think what happened what went wrong was um when you got outside influences might get in another person ear and and pump this venom out with them and poison it in tell them these dudes from New York they don't [ __ ] with you they only down here to use you man whatever they come down here whatever they brain kill him and take it from and we can sell it and we can get on one ourselves we don't need them no more okay well in one of those New York guys was Alpo and after the whole situation in New York where his man got killed and he was responsible for the murder I guess he'd really set up shop in DC full-time and you would actually knew Alpo during that time well I knew um I knew who he was I had no Dennis what I'm doing I had no dinners were Out Boy at all whatsoever okay and Wayne Perry was literally his hit man during that time did you know anything about all that all that [ __ ] that was happening around that no our porn Wayne situation now I just would get glimpses and pieces of what was going on with Wayne if I run across him and you know we're talk and you know I kind of like forewarn them before I even got to that day you know from what I hear about our posed characters that he had to be trusted you know I mean and I'm he's a snake and I told Wayne like my I think you might need to separate yourself from that but Wayne I think was was happy with the situation he was in and was pleased with whatever output was giving him with and he wasn't he wasn't hearing me he wasn't hearing no why well ultimately Alpo ended up telling on a lot of people was Wayne was one of them too right yeah totally yeah okay when you heard about that what you think I just shook my head because I told him you know I told him and I'm once that once it came out the output did telling him and I was able to see Wayne again I didn't want to tell him I told you so but man I told you so man you know I mean you should have went on a man and got rid of when you had the chance to get rid up now look at you okay so then 1988 rolls around and I guess in the eyes the court system that's when they first really started messing with you during that time so I guess right before your 18th birthday you got arrested with a warrant charging it was second-degree murder while armed and this was the the Patrick Cook case right ah can you talk about that case at all I was the jury hey hung on that case they found me not guilty on first-degree murder and uh the jury I had a mistrial on second degree murder it was um it was an unfortunate situation man where a guy man um he got in their own persons business man and he got stabbed and and that's what it was okay so according the report you got arrested because there was a witness that stated that you were the one that did it and he had known you for two or three years but during that time witnesses weren't very reliable so what happened with that particular witness that would took the witness ended up he ended up being a victim herself later what do you mean he ended up being a victim of his um his violation to the cold you know I mean in the neighborhood like you don't that was an unwritten rule like you don't even have to turn on by I don't tale that's just was something when you come out the house you knew not to do you knew you knew not to tell nobody before you come out the house from even your aunties your uncle's your grandmother mother somebody when you got a sibling or a little cousin and they do something wrong and one of your older relatives smack you up against the head and say my don't you be telling nobody so that's when you first learn before you will come out of the house that do don't do no telling so when you had it and these type of environments somebody that's telling the wolves is gonna be on you because now you can't be in a neighborhood no more if they know you would snitch they know you're a rat they don't want you around you can't be around them or you either gonna get exile out that neighborhood exile and if that's the only place you know that's the only place you grew up bad where you gonna go if somebody kicked you out of Montana where you gonna go you can't go no neighborhood so when you try to come back I do snitch you're gonna end up in a dumpster well you under beating that case but the police were really on you at that point court documents described you as a murderous drug gang enforcer with the reputation so frightening that few people would dare to testify against you so then we get into all the other cases also court documents they described you as a feared enforcer and contract killer on the streets around Montana Terrace almost every crime in which you were implicated in occurred within walking distance of the complex so the police were really out to get you at this point the fact that you beat that first case they didn't give up right how's your interactions with the courts and the police at this point it was um they had they had built double a sick vendetta against me man because I'm you know the level of success I guess you could put it that we reach in the joy game and nobody would never give him no information about that and so every time I body drop or if my name was even mentioned in that earlier in the same breakfast is murder then they automatically assume that I had something to do with it if I didn't do it if he did it or he knows something bout it how many total murders did they try to implicate you in 10 10 okay well there's a situation where you're acquitted of a charge that they say you try to kill a man who had implicated you in a slaying but victims witnesses familiar with the reality of life in the streets consistently declined to testify against you fearing the alleged reputation for violence a key witness to a homicide which implicated you in a police interview but then the witness Arlen J Badu actually refused to get on the to get on the on the stand and say he'd rather go to jail for life than testify against you so I guess in the rare case they actually charged him with perjury and sent him to jail because even though he made a statement against you he refused to get on the stand and repeat that statement right can you talk about that I mean you know it's um it was unfortunate man that home he had to be put in a predicament no man but um I give him props for you know trying to correct this wrong trying to fix the wrong he done with implicating me in this murder you know I mean I still don't I still don't know you know have no no Dennis my still had nothing to say to him but I do respect the fact that uh he knew he was wrong and try to correct that wrong by by not getting honest and and taking that time for perjury okay well eventually the jury got deadlocked and then they finally gave you a bond for $25,000 how long were you locked up and you got that bond two years at a time okay how did it feel to be out at that point I didn't get out oh when they gave me the bond they um I was in the process of paying a bomb and um they've rushed and got it won't I never want for another murder okay so then in the next seven months you got arrested two more times so then you had a handgun charge which you're acquitted for and then in early July 1990 they said you were involved in the shooting the previous month for which the witness recanted right so once again there was a witness that said you did it and then they changed their story afterwards all right he talked about that it was the like I say it was the pressure the streets man you know I mean it was it was like the police that get these peoples in the Homicide Division all down the preset and they co hearse these statements out of them they're co-hosting statements out um and pump fear in them and then but then once they get back to the community and realize the harm that these police put them in the danger that they put their lives and their family lives in then that's where you know you get the recaps or the statements and the changes and all that well finally with the whole cook case the judge actually dismissed it with prejudice which means that you can never be charged for it again regardless of what evidence comes out later on how did it feel to beat that murder charge my name is um it was a big relief man was it it was a heavy burden lifted off my shoulder because I was young I was I was 1718 years over the time when I was faced with a level of uncertainty about my future that I couldn't I couldn't comprehend the time I didn't know what was ahead of me so when I beat it it was it was it was a burden it was a heavy weight lifted off my shoulder I felt relieved okay but it didn't end there did so then there was more charges there was a gun charge in Washington which entered a mistrial and a dismissal and there was another one in Maryland where you were found guilty right I guess you were arrested on the 2400 block a 14th Street and they found you hiding in a car and found a pistol the club in the glove compartment right but then you're actually acquitted for that gun charge how does someone find you how does the police find you in a car with a pistol and then you you beat that case I mean the lack of evidence you know my fingerprints weren't on the gun the gun was on loved in a glow Department and um I want to say I might have been in the backseat at the time so you know I had with the expertise of my good lawyer mr. Bernard Grimm you know he um was able to uh you know get me a quitter in that case man he was able to put perform in a courtroom to a level where he proved that um this gun was not - so were you hiring attorneys during that time or were these public defenders yeah um I had one attorney Bernard Grimm okay at the end of the day how much money did you spend on attorney fees ah maybe close to 100 down okay all right so then June 1990 this guy named Vincent Knight was shot on the 3100 block Rhode Island Avenue and he said that you did it you get charged with assault with a dangerous weapon but then their charges dropped when Knight said said that it wasn't you yeah tell me about that situation I mean Vincent Knight was a red man you know and I'm Vincent Knight had I'm like a good brother a good friend of mine who I love like a brother and I'm I tried it I want to him and try to give him a mix make sure he went to court and he told the people the truth about what happened with that situation and that you know the wrong person is locked up for that and um he said he would do it I'm tired come around for him to go to court and make them changes in the courtroom he didn't do it you know he got his ass bus so he had up recanting later on yeah okay so then February 1991 you get charged with carrying a weapon which they say was a submachine gun and this trial ended with a deadlocked jury and the handgun possession charge was dismissed right how did you beat that one it's a you know I mean it was like I saved my ass the lack of the lack of evidence a shitty prosecutor work and one hell of a turn okay so then July 1991 Nathaniel Matthews is shot to death an alleged contract killing over cocaine dead he was shot near an outdoor basketball court you get charged with that what happened with that case it was um I was uh I was acquitted okay put it in sufficient evidence once again yeah in a good attorney so then there's the Glenn case July 92 well told police that you threatened to kill her family and you had an obstruction of justice case against you which was once again dismissed after the woman changed her story right what happened there that's what happened Oh for while I for the record I didn't threaten nobody's family you know I mean that was just um that was a plot and propaganda from law enforcement to try to get me arrested for that charge and I'm just to hold me the bill build up cases on me for some other stuff they just were trying to give me all the streets okay and you're not beating that case right all right so then there is the Michael Green situation so I guess this involved you and one of your close friends so tell me about what happened with that well um I don't know Mike I never I didn't know Mike you know at the time when uh we went to this particular neighborhood I went to see a buddy of mine that I'm you know to pick up some money and in the process of me getting this money Mike comes across the street and says some to a friend of mine that was with me now I know the buddy of mine that was women can hand itself so and in the Saturday was playing so when I'm engaging in another conversation with the guy that told me my money my money was short so I got I got a attitude about it like man you had too much time to um give me my money and you playing and you still sure so with my gun in my hand and might end up making a comment to me about having this gun in my hand and before I can't even respond or react my co-defendant end up shooting Mike and head okay so the both of you are on trial but there's witnesses that are saying you did it right one whit because you're one witness okay now in all these other cases the witnesses would be scared that recant they changed their story they wouldn't show up to trial or whatever but this time this witness actually kept their story this witness was locked up and they dragged him from the County Jail he was there in Virginia and brought him in the courtroom put him on the stand and uh this guy got up there and fabricated this story and lied on me everything that he testified to that I did was actually with what somebody else did but at the end of the day I know he's lying he's know he's lying but the jury don't so and throughout the process of that trial when the case seemed like it was it was crumbling the judge uh resets the jury for the weekend it was Friday he resets the jury for the weekend told him to disregard any media coverage about this case because they are reporters in the courtroom and while I was in deliberation Sunday a newspaper article came out on the front page of the Washington Post not the Metro section the very first page of The Postman you pick it up you see this picture me and they label me the Teflon suspect at the time that's what that title and I named Teflon come from I did not get myself their name and it was a plaque from the media and a prosecution office to UM get me convicted of this crime by throwing cases in there all the cases that you mentioned that I was acquitted of and I beat this was the only way to they could leak this information to the jury is putting it in the paper they couldn't bring it up and quote because I was acquitted in light of the stuff everything I was acquitted or dismiss so they couldn't bring it up in quote so the only way they can get this information to this jury is to push it through the media so once they read it you know me they came back to court Monday morning and found me guilty okay now there's only been two other people that have been called Teflon before you there was John Gotti and Ronald Reagan correct and now they're calling you essentially Teflon Shawn right and you you feel that this front page newspaper article influence the jury to convict you based on all the other murders that you beat the other nine murders that you beat there was heavily in films of course no doubt my mind and in this particular case you didn't do the murder but your friend did the murder and he actually managed to walk away without any charges not any convictions right now after you got convicted your friend actually tried to help you correct let's talk about that he he um he gave me a written affidavit and was wouldn't testify understand that um I didn't do it that he was the one that did it and they got the wrong man convicted for now explain to me why someone who just got away with murder literally would then write a piece of paper to say no I'm the one who did the murder give me 25 years to life or whatever the penalty is so I'll never see my family ever again it was um it was a cold man it was a cold that we we abide by and we live by and die by in these streets and like I say once you violate that cold you can't come back from that right and when you have someone that to kill you choose you right choose your family right and you see that this person is going down for something that you've done it's honorable and you don't have it in these day and time no more and I commend them for his effort even though it didn't work and I still had to fight my way and through litigation in the court system but I commend them for that honorable effort him stepping up and trying to take his beef to cut a man loose that didn't even do it well why did the judge not accept that that statement from him at that point because they had it who they wanted convicted of it already you know me they wasn't gonna take this conviction back over someone that they were trying to give four years just based off that statement anyway that I would have to get out of jail and I had to fight my way through the arm to the court system man - um do appeals okay so you get 25 years 25 tonight on grass he's headed to prison Darren Fox has more on the three year old charges that finally stepped on that dub the Teflon killer castellón John they nicknamed the diminutive John branch until the day the 23 year old what he plans ISA is out of ten charges against him today he got 26 years for the murder of Michael Green you're 23 years old at the time correct how does a 23 year old except being told that they're gonna be in a cage longer than they've been alive I didn't accept it at the time when I when I first got convicted I didn't accept death you know I mean I wasn't gonna have a few this subject because I'm in my mind I think that I had enough money and it's strong enough a legal team to UM to put together the best appeal for me and give me out I didn't expect to do no more than five years but when that time got the rollin on and I get the exhaustion all my remedies in quote I came to terms with what my reality was at the time so I adjusted and I adapted to my environment and made it a major part of my lifestyle when you first heard the 25 years did you cry did you did you break down or did you you know take it like a man that's even possible that's impossible there's something like oh do no cry man that's that's what that's one thing I don't do yeah I said that man I stood firm on my on my ten I accepted what was handed down to me and I did it without complaints I did it without crying I did it without bitching you know I mean and you know I learned the knife in that situation be honest with you black you know I mean I think that if I didn't do that time a lot of good wouldn't it came out of item out of me you know me they pulled some good out of me and they they pull some positive thinking out of me that I didn't have him he had before you know me I changed the nightmare was there a certain degree of well I got convicted of something I didn't do but there was a lot of stuff I did that I got away with so at the end of the day 25 years is fair yeah yeah I end up running across um a mob way from uh from Jersey I think in from Jersey Nicky Scarfo in Lewisburg and man [ __ ] Carphone talked about it before and um on a regular and I know forgetting to tell me like you you know about poetic justice so you came but you made it balanced I was just right for you so everything that you got away with you got away with it so just take this on the chin man and do this time like a man and make it home the right way well in prison you always have the the gang situation you also have the geographical situation you know you got DC guys that stick together at the New York guys stick together then you have the Crips the Bloods the black guerilla family the Latin Kings the list goes on and on how much of that politics did you have to maneuver and what came from some of that affiliation and the violence that comes with it well I know Elm coming in the system you know with the reputation I had and the the appetite for violence that I had I was I was I was kind of I'm gonna say a hothead I knew how to I know how to think but I wasn't going for that and I was quick template so I was anybody that was trying to bring harm to any in my home is there I was definitely on the front line with it but um the politics about about it all his own knowing you know when to insert that violence and we're not then inserted what's worth it and was not worth it and um I ran across some guys man that was blows mac-11 Pistol Pete see murder scene no baby heck you know just to name a few that I'm I did a time where there was blood it was from cents money murder and we became cool [ __ ] so it's all about the you know the personality of the man and and how he deal with others to form these bonds and we create understandings with each other day hey if something happened with my home in yours before I go to violence before we build a yard stablish ever bring it to me first and let me deal with it if it's a situation that I can't deal with all its to the level where you know my homies want blood as a form of payment or as a form of whatever then I can't appear to be weak either so at certain times I gotta I gotta make the call of that my homies know like let's go you know man but for the most part I tried to look for other measures man other alternatives to dead these situations before I forget bloody well on the street you are known as a shooter but when you get into prison there's no guns so if something violent occurs you have to be up on that person right you have to either use your hands or you have to have like a knife or some sort of weapon that you make yourself right and you know I talk to a lot of guys who did a long period time they said that 99% of the guys there were shooters on the streets they do not want any level of violence in prison because they're just not used to that level of savagery you yourself how many violent situations were you involved with in prison well Mercedes right that may be true with some guys right but um I know a whole lot of guys at that statement don't apply to and myself included because that first case you talked about in 88 it was it was a knife involved so a gun gun was um I guess you could say my tool of choice later you know I mean but um I had hey I have found myself and um not a lot but you know a few a few violent situations man where I had the arm I had to use them I had to use a knife okay how many stabbings were you involved in in prison is two or three maybe three okay in 25 years so not a lot yeah and you end up doing the entire 25 years yeah day four day okay cuz most times you hear what was your case to stay case or a federal case thank you okay cuz in state cases I heard that you get sometimes you know only 50 percent of your time federal cases you get 85% so what prevented you from getting any time off well the court that I've come out of this is superior quote they arm you got to do 85 percent at that time so and then you have to see the parole board and they gotta make a determination based off your your institutional behavior you'll record your program achievements anything at s so if you eligible or if they first though you ready for society so either during the 25 years it was no girls here at least for me I still had to see the parole board in order to make it home and they kept turning you down now I made it the first time okay but that was 25 years yeah so you go in at 23 you get out at 48 I got over there 46 46 so literally half your life was spent in prison right what was that first day out like uh it was um I had a Lions going through me man you know me I ain't been a society in 25 years so it was a lot going on aside me I was overwhelmed and then you know my city had changed so much that when I got back in the city my head was on a school because I didn't know where I was that so a lot of things looked different and um I just was happy man I was I was happy and [ __ ] to be home my doll that time you know well you get locked up what was in 1993 I got out of 92 92 and you get out what year and 2017 okay so at the time that you went in I was 46 my bad yeah well but but I'm saying from the time that you were locked up there were no iPhones that there was no World Wide Web I mean Michael Jackson was still alive and on top of the charts yeah I mean hip hop was still a relatively new thing you get out and it's a completely different world like what was the hardest thing to adjust to after you got out well um learning to drive again was um was probably the hardest for me right with the phone you know I had a lot of practice where I was in because somebody's attitude I was in you know we was able to get our hands on some of these new technology right but um the hardest part for me was um I was nervous when I got back behind the wheel again okay one of the things that I hear from guys that have been locked up for a long time like for example I interviewed a little D he was the crack kingpin of Oakland during the 80s and he did I think like 27 years and he described how his biggest adjustment was in prison if you bump into somebody like violence has to break out at that point if the person doesn't doesn't apologize and doesn't respect you whereas he's walking around the streets people are on their phones bumping into each other and no one says anything and that was a big adjustment for him I got was to the airport and mailing I took that Airport and seen all these people moving around on the cell phones if you've seen that expression on my face I was in another world man like I was the look the look that was on me was like a person that you just let out of a cave I mean that's how long I had been gone like when I seen all these peoples on the phones with a hairnet on texting and bumping into each other man it freaked me out man because I mean because it was so these people were moving so fast all right and then in prison you got to be kind man you've got to say excuse me if you bump into somebody man you you know you got to say excuse me you got a you got a you know because it's a respect thing so when I say you know you people bumping each other with the head now I don't we're not a freak and I'm like man what this is crazy cuz prison rules don't apply in society right what was the the hardest thing for you to suddenly put yourself out of a prison mentality and now into a societal mentality um it was something similar to that like I know how to separate the two my mind don't work that way I'm not I'm not constantly locked up you know I mean I know now that I'm in society and certain things and certain ways that occurred once I was in jail I can't do that out here and but one of the things that I noticed in that was um and we spoke valise in a matter of seconds if it happened in prison was when guys cut the line so when I'm in certain restaurants or somewhere and the guy cut the line and just walked up to the counter I'm like God I am like don't you see me standing right here but I had to quickly turn it off and realize that I'm not in jail no more I'm in his face and if I do something to this man I'm going back to prison so that was one of the things for me that I'm I had to like quickly separate the two I didn't know that I'm not I'm now I can't yoke this [ __ ] by the baggers collar and slam his head and gets the counter or you know me slam him on his neck okay I couldn't do it so I just go wait wait man well you know I mean what I'm trying to do what I'm trying by this is obviously not as important what you trying to get so wait get your [ __ ] back out the way so that's how that's how I start earning well another thing that I also heard from guys like Lil D and in Freeway Ricky is that when they went in they had a bunch of money a bunch of property jewelry whatever else and they left that with their close friends and family and so forth and by the time they got out all that was gone right the same situation with you yeah pretty much you know I mean I hate like I said I had um I had a pretty big the first attorney tag you know you know over the course of 25 years I didn't I didn't call home to ask somebody to send me nothing I didn't have to you know I mean and I had two kids at the time so a lot of the money that I did have I was able to say what was spent on taking care of my kids and I'm making sure I don't want nothin in prison to and making sure that my pure lawyers is paid you know I mean my people could get to me whenever they wanted to get to making a plane come see me wherever I'm at in the country so yeah a lot of the money that I had accumulated and saved up was on a star star dwindling quickly start to starve a berating real fair well you you stuck to your code you didn't tell anybody you did your 25 years but at the end of the day you lost more than half your life in prison you probably kept in contact with your kids but you didn't get to raise your kids right your two kids grow up without a father right where both of you guys missed out you missed out on raising your kids and they missed out on having you around you didn't come out a multi-millionaire you know with millions of dollars and you're you're living lavishly at this point when you look back on your life and your decisions do you regret anything no I don't have no regrets I don't handle dress at all bleh I probably wouldn't change nothing be honest with you you know I mean even though I was cooking off the streets at a young age and away from my kids and been away from my kids 25 years it was um it was a learning experience man it was um something that I'm it may have saved my life who knows you know I mean but um no I wouldn't I wouldn't change the thing and I don't have no regrets I live with you know what I've done and I said the consequences of what was handed down to me for whatever I done or whatever I didn't do you know me because while I was incarcerated you know I was able to learn a lot of skills me I was able to meet a lot of good people in there you know I got my associates degree in that with a number one to Congress on the streets you know I mean I wrote I wrote a book I wrote screenplays I design clothes you know I'm a I became with dental assistant in it you know I mean I became a concrete polisher and like I said I got my degree so a lot of that things that I was able to accomplish while I was incarcerated I probably would've never done if I was on the streets well you ultimately got convicted because of a snitch and even though you weren't the one who did it snitching is what got you in prison right someone else snitching that is and I remember when I interviewed Freeway Ricky he was convicted for life in prison at one point as well he ended up beating it and coming out but he says something interesting he said that when he first got locked up he was upset that you know this guy who was his plug who he made millions of dollars for snitched on him and then once that wore off he realized that when it comes to the drug game you have to accept this niching as part of the drug game so if you're gonna sell drugs you have to know ahead of time that at some point someone's gonna tell on you and that's probably gonna end up putting you in prison that's a good way that I'm a freeway Rick looked at that but um yeah that comes with it you know I mean it definitely comes with that you know I mean but there are consequences that comes with those actions too so if you're gonna violate this code and you won't become a snitch then you got to be accept those consequences come with those actions as well it's just it's just the way the game is man and if you run the player to that level you can't be made you just got to deal with it have and and and insert consequences man you got to you got to put down for those actions when you look here for example Takashi six nine who who told on the nine trade Bloods and ended up getting all these guys football numbers how do you feel about about that as someone that because I'm assuming when you got convicted do they offer you some sort of deal they say okay look we know you know about some other murders and drug deals give us a little bit of information and we'll we'll shave that 25 years down not I didn't they didn't come to me with no deal at that at that particular time but um when they thought that I was gonna make parole and I was coming off a pro day they came to me a boat ask me a lot of question about some cold cases that um and told me that they can help me get out of prison but they didn't know but they didn't know about my parolee situation so even if I wasn't you know up for parole it wasn't nothing they can get for me man I was I was willing the man um lay down for what I believe it and if it called for me dying and when themselves did not then so big that's what it'll better what's your take on the takashi situation and the ninth ray bloods yeah I mean whatever come on take me on he's a hat he's a rat snitch [ __ ] that's what it is well you have two kids how old are they well I have one now my son passed away about four years ago my daughter's um 28 Oh what happened here son my son um he had a seizure and uh and hit his head on a thermostat and I kept having these seizures then why he was having seizures he had an arm stroke right out of that and when the coma never never came out of it were you locked up when that happened yeah I was not good I was at the end of my bed soon I was does a father get that type of news in prison because you can't even go to the funeral right now I'm gonna tell you man you know I from that from that experience I learned a lot about empathy from that experience you know I mean it because nothing I don't care how much I've been through in my life without experience what I seen what I've done but I didn't do I was money I had I mean cars I had whatever none of that [ __ ] mad at man none that [ __ ] matter and nothing that she could prepare me for the pain I felt from losing my child so I learned a lot about empathy and coming to realize the harm and the pain that I caused and other people cause to these mothers and his father's out there that um their kids was laws to gun violence you know man so with with me feeling that way I um I changed my way of thinking and I came home and got what for a program got with this program called the car mr. and uh we became mentors to these young adults out here and also we're for no initiative I would get a community called father fact that these motors free DC where we trying to stop some of these senseless murders out here with some of these kids it's killing each other for for nothing so it kind of gave me a purpose banning it and when my son passed away and I spread that feeling it gave me a purpose now to UM get out here and try to say some of these young guys lives man the best way I can do it Weatherby through my experiences or just you know just being a mentor being a big brother so to speak and just educating them about the law educating them about the consequences of their actions and just try to stir them in the right way man and um say some lies do you think up to up to that point you're a sociopath now I don't think that but some people might okay you know when you look back upon your history you know when you're in the middle of hustling and you're making money and you're living fast you don't think about the long term implications about what you're doing right you know you you moved kilos of cocaine throughout DC which became crack which was taken by mothers they were probably pregnant at the time which turned into crack babies right which created a cycle of violence entire communities and areas were destroyed and never fully recovered people that were killed they had kids they had grieving mothers they had brothers they had friends things that you had your hand in yourself caused a lot of destruction right when you're doing it you probably don't care but 2530 years later do you think about that and feel any level regret yeah um I feel bad about you know I definitely do man because I seen some of my friends mothers you know get strung out on it man I'm thankful mine didn't you know I mean but I'm I remember you know being and I'm chopped I was at Montana one day man you know they just served they just serve crack through the door through it through the uh through the mail slot at the door and um I remember man uh one of my buddies come back and telling me that I'm another one our buddies Mother's is at the door and asked me what should I do and at the time you know I didn't have no I didn't have no compassion for crackheads I didn't have no no sympathy for crackheads I just wanted the money so I told my server you know I mean but when I look back on it man I'm you know I'm I'm dead wrong for that you know I mean because this is somebody that I knew I grew up with and here it is his mother's bike rack for me so you know when I look back on it yeah I was I was wrong man and I wish that I'm it was something that I could do to change it but you know can't do that now but uh yeah I feel some kind of some some some kind of a sense of regret Bob that if your daughter came up to you and said dad I want to be just like the old you I'm gonna be the kingpin of DC I'm gonna not make all the mistakes that you made I'm gonna outsmart the law and I'm gonna make a billion dollars what would you tell her man I would let her know first and foremost man that it ain't worth it you know you know they just look at how my life turned out and look at the years that I lost look at the years that you lost to be able to spend with me and for me to be able to raise you right you know I mean those are chances and risk that you take when you get in this game so you know it's inevitable it's not a matter of if it's gonna happen it's a matter of when it's gonna happen so one or two things is gonna happen even you won't lose your life to the prison system or you're gonna lose your life to the streets end up in a box one of the two yeah and that's always been the story time and time again with a lot of guys that have been in your position all of us said that they wish they had gone down a different path because bawling out cuz how many years did you bawl out before you got locked up I had um I had a good run man maybe from 89 to known 88 to 92 so for four years of living the highlife for every year that you lived the high life you did six years in prison yeah yeah it's not worth it's not worth it don't balance out you know at all at all well Shawn I appreciate you coming in and telling your story uh I think a lot of people especially in DC have always heard the name and have always known bits and pieces but I think it's powerful to have you actually lay out your whole story and let people know you know I think it's commendable that you never told that anybody that you actually adhered to the rules indeed your time I think most people would have crumbled tonight most people would have instantly talked about who could I tell on right then and there as soon as the cuffs got on them right but you actually stood firm and did a quarter of a century under horrible circumstances right and it sounds like you you've gotten your life together doesn't sound you're gonna go back anytime soon now and us seems like you're helping people as well yeah you know we tryna we trying to do the right thing out here man I'm trying spies on people man and I'm show them that you could come from that life you can do the time but if you don't change your mindset and try to apply some positivity in your life Dan you know me you're gonna find yourself not getting off the square one you know me so you know like I say I've been doing a lot of outreach work man and I'm trying to - you know man some classes with some of these youngins to teach them you know writing skills they keep ask me about my book money murder mayhem and you know how I wrote it in how long is going to take me to write it and how much money I made off of us one of the questions I get from a lot of youngest but I'm I'm trying to inspire some people man to do the right thing man you know I want to shout out to Mustafa and Yvette Tyreke the type of experiment for help me put together this uh this amazing novel so for everyone that that's enjoying the story right now there's a much more detailed version of it right in money murder mayhem which I guess is loosely based right on your life right we're not gonna say which part is right we're not well we'll let the reader figured out yeah we let them figure it out we'll let them figure it out it's a dope book we read it before the interview and you guys could click on it and purchase it for yourself I do an audio book of it yet now we're working on the audio book now as we speak man I got a young lady man that um it's gonna reinforce man that I'm that's amazing she's great so I think they're gonna enjoy the oil but when they come out and I got the secret coming out with two songs so I need people to be on the lookout for that and pick up money murder mayhem if you haven't already got it that's what it is man I appreciate you coming in shot you said you had me man no doubt peace

Channel: djvlad

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Id: RDjIGkfVySs

Length: 81min 4sec (4864 seconds)

Published: Mon May 25 2020