Michael Franzese on Father Dying, Sammy the Bull, Ori Spado, "Grim Reaper", Jordan (Full Interview)

all right here we go Michael Franzese welcome back good to be back glad how are you doing during the whole quarantine and so forth you know I've been asked that many times but I spent almost three years in the hole in prison so this quarantines me a walk in the park for me but you know I'm not too bad I know right compared to solitary confinement this is this is great piece of cake well you actually have some new businesses that are forming so for example you have a pizza franchise called slices that's correct yes okay an ex Mafia guy starting a pizza restaurant I mean it's well listen goes back I got one of my old relationships that I know for 3540 years there's been in a restaurant business forever so he came to me about a year and a half ago and he says Mike I want to go back into pizza and I said Tony I said come on everybody and their brother has pizza what are we going to do that it's different long story short he spent a year and a half researching and we came up with a a pizza that's delicious amazing and a concept that separates us from everybody else we're franchising we've got four stores now and we're continuing to go and today you know I live out Newport Beach we're getting word that there's going to be protests and riots here so I got to go protect my store because it's gonna be right in front of of where my store is so we may see a mole some old schools kind of things happening today blad we'll see hopefully not okay so what if a group of protesters were looters in this case approach your store with baseball bats glad they're not going to take us easy I'll tell you that I mean you know I'm old-school in that regard we protect our own so hopefully that doesn't happen we don't want any confrontations and look I respect the peaceful demonstrations and I protect I respect the protest there's no doubt they have a right I think we need change in this country but when they take it you know across that line and they start destroying businesses and going after people you know that's when we put a stop to that well apparently in your old neighborhood in Brooklyn the old mafia guys aren't taking too kindly to all the looting and so forth no and they shouldn't I mean I got word last night that bunch of my old associates well Friends of old associates from Staten Island handled some business there last night I mean why should we accept this I mean these people have no right to come into our neighborhoods and destroy our businesses and go after our property that's absolutely wrong well you grew up with a father who was not only in the Mafia but was always surveilled by the police always followed always harassed and so forth and I remember one of your interviews you said that you grew up hating the police that's correct I did okay and apart from them harassing your father like why did you hate the police so much well you know I saw my dad as my hero I mean he's my father and and I saw law enforcement as the enemy and in many ways because of the way they conducted themselves I mean I had a few skirmishes and this is ought to be clear this is mostly this was FBI agents and these were you know detectives assigned to the organized crime division it wasn't beat cops we didn't get involved with beat cops but these were detectives and at times they just didn't conduct themselves properly man I had many skirmishes with them you know growing up and I saw you know I saw them as harassing my dad harassing my family so you know that's the mentality that I had growing up okay what kind of skirmishes did you get into well you know I mean I told this story often I mean I was 10 years old playing ball in the street and a kid throws a ball over my head we lived on an incline so the ball rolls down to where two detectives were sitting in the car well as the ball approached them the guy in the driver's side gets out of the car and he stops the ball with his foot he was a big guy and he had a suit on and when I got to him I said hey officer can I have my ball back and he looked at me pulled his jacket aside he had a gun in there and he said this is for your old man one day you know kind of Stu Gary stuff when you're 10 years old so you know stuff like that and then when I got a little older you know and they would surveil my dad once in a while they would surveil me and I would take them on a wild goose chase and you know go through you know different areas of the neighborhood and they would one time they tried to arrest me for it but they brought me home to my dad instead so a lot of stuff like that and then you know I actually had my first encounter real skirmish with them I would say when I was walking the line with the italian-american civil rights League and Joe Colombo you know actually got pretty well beat up I wanted them by a bunch of them Billy's clubs and also I mean I had my fill of that no doubt well a lot of times you have criminals with a badge just like how you have criminals on the street in your experience how often do you see dirty cops that are really just plain criminals who feel that this might be a better way for them to make money well listen you know back in New York during that time you got to understand you know New York was kind of the we were the stronghold for the mob throughout the country and we had 750 made guys throughout all five families guys that actually took the oath we had a lot of associates so within that group we had a lot of friends neighbors relatives that were cops detectives and so we had a relationship with them and as a result you know they would they would do our bidding for us at times because of the relationship that we had so you know I saw many cops on the edge so to speak and you know during my time now I want to make this clear I don't think that's the rule I think that's the exception and then again you're talking about mob guys who really know how to maneuver and work with guys and so on and so forth so you know we knew how to get these guys to do our bidding allow them to make some money but again that's the exception not the rule I don't want to make this clear because I know a lot of people listen to this I do not believe I believe that the the cops that are doing the wrong thing today they're certainly in the minority that's not the it's not the general way that these people work it's it's a minority and you know the lad people talk about racism racism exist everywhere it's going to exist until the end of time it's just it's a fact of life no it's among cops among doctors lawyers priests you get it it's just a fact of life we have to learn how to deal with it how to control with it and hopefully how to eliminate it at some point well when you see the writing that's happening I remember there was one video that was circulating it was like this white guy that looked like he wanted the polluters to burn his store down for the insurance money insurance scams at least in the movies of the Mafia seems to be a big thing were you involved in this type of thing when you were working yeah big time because you got to understand my targets flat back in the day I aimed high I went after the government defrauded the amount of taxes I went after the banks they got a lot of money they were insured by the FDIC and I went after insurance companies because they can afford it so yeah I was involved in a lot of insurance scams as a matter of fact I had an insurance company that was located in the Virgin Islands that was their base and I would get them to write financial guarantee bonds and these bonds would be used to guarantee loans from the banks and the banks would would use them as collateral so back in the day yeah I did that and I beat the insurance company in the banks I didn't care like I said I ain't I I didn't go after the little guy on the street that was just my way of dealing with things yeah I mean it's a crazy time right now did you watch the video George Floyd getting strangled I did what did you think I think it was horrible I think that cop was totally out of order I think all four of them should be held accountable there was no excuse whatsoever that cop that was there was people on the streets telling him to stop you know George Floyd was telling him he couldn't breathe I mean that was 100% out of order and I don't know why all the cops haven't been arrested yet I'll be honest with you yeah well at this time of filming the main cop Derek has been arrested in a believ charged with third degree murder and manslaughter you know three cops have been fired but not charged we'll see what happens they're supposed to be new developments every day so we'll see well since our last interview your father Sonny Franzese passed away yeah he was over a hundred right he was 103 a hundred and three I mean we should all be so we should all be so lucky to live 203 you know that's true of Ladd but what people don't understand you know my dad went off to prison in 1970 he did 40 years out of the last 50 of his life in prison and I tell people this yeah he lived to 103 but nobody would have wanted his life for the past 50 years of his life it was that bad I mean look you know he lost his daughter my sister died of an overdose of drugs my brother was a drug addict for you know the story 25 years eventually turned informant against my dad he contracted the HIV virus my mother died in 2012 while my father was in prison the last years of their life I can only describe as being ugly because my mom you know held him responsible for everything that went wrong in her life 33 years without a husband and it was just you know one thing after another for him so he suffered greatly those last 50 years of his life but yeah I mean look he was a fighter he was strong he had a strong will to live and at least he died out of prison which for me was a blessing for him yeah I lost my dad last November I think shortly after our interview so it's too sorry to bother that's tough you know and look I looked up to my dad we had our differences obviously we had a a different ideology in the latter part of our lives but you know I respected him and I loved him he was my father and for me he was a good dad you know growing up I mean I have to say that what do you think your best memory of your father was you know the best memories were as a kid I mean when he was finally or when I should say when I had him around to just be dad you know you know times when he would come and visit me when I watch me play ball and we went out to eat in times he would take me up to his his business and the record business and I met a lot of people through him at that time the times we spent at the Copacabana remember you know my graduation when he threw a huge party for me in the back of the yard put up a big tent had big entertainment had 500 people there he took me to the Copa 4 to see Dionne Warwick me and you know my whole class was probably about 50 of us you know he had ringside tables and you know those are great great memories of my dad he was a good father growing up I mean I loved him what do you think it was your worst memory you know I mean seeing him you know carted off to prison for what I thought would be a death sentence 50 years visiting him in prison at times you know and the times when you know contract on my life that my dad went along with I was told even though he denied it you know those things hurt and you know it's hard to to rationalize something like that so those are those are tough memories yeah I'm sorry for your loss how was the funeral you know I didn't go glad I there was some trouble brewing in New York at that point in time and I paid my respects with him quietly when nobody was around okay so you mean to tell me that going to that funeral might have caused a violent outburst somehow well yeah it's not that you know I didn't want to become the center of attention there and there was some rumblings in the neighborhood and you know I wasn't there for that this was my dad's time I wanted people to be able to pay their respects I had seen him not too long before that so I paid my respects very quietly to him by myself and I felt that was the best way to handle it yeah I mean there was some drama around my funeral you know my dad's funeral then when I started speaking to some of my friends a lot of one would tell me similar stories like you would think their funerals are the times that everyone comes together or hugs each other but a lot of times that's what a lot of the bad feelings come out the anger comes out the old issues come out and a lot of people don't attend funerals you know my friend Godfrey who's a regular on the show he didn't go to his father's public funeral he went afterwards by himself so yeah I mean this is common and it's unfortunate it is you know and again you don't want to become the center of attention you don't want to take anything away from what people are there for and that's to pay their respects well before I go on I want to just touch on a business you have which is coaching yeah so explain to me what your coaching business consists of you know Vlad throughout the years I've been I've been asked so many questions and people are seeking my advice about business about certain aspects of their lives and I've been doing that you know all along as much as I can but during this pandemic and I've had people ask me all the time I you should be a life coach you should be a business coach you have so much experience in so many different areas of the life and I've been doing that for twenty years anyhow just for people that would come and seek my advice so during this pandemic when I had time to think and I was home and so many people were communicating me through social media and other ways I said you know what maybe this is something that I should really devote some of my energy and skills to so I connected with some people that have been pushing me to do this throughout the years and we created a website and we created a community now where people can actually become part of my crew and we can provide them with advice and information me personally I get personally involved with a lot of people and I try to respond to their questions give them some business you know advice and experience that I have and it's amazing how quickly it's grown I mean there's so many people out there and I guess during this pandemic it's it's been highlighted in their lives that need advice in so many different areas so I'm devoting my time and attention to that what's really great is this community that we created now people are talking among one another that have maybe similar struggles or challenges or issues in their life and they're now talking among one another and getting advice from each other and then you know I'll come on once a week and we'll get personally involved and answer questions and it's been really productive we just started it it's only the last two or three weeks but I'm really encouraged with what I see happen so far now that's great that's great so I like the concept of them joining your crew yes no listen everything with me I mean I still have that old mob mentality in a way so you know other people have members I have a crew you know nice and we'll go ahead and put the website in the description underneath it people want to join they could go ahead and click on it right now we've actually in your previous interviews we put links to some of your books we've actually moved a lot of books based on the stats that I saw have you yeah yeah I get reports so I don't look at all of them but I get reports from our publisher and they're selling books they're happy they're happy very cool very cool well since our last interview I have interviewed a lot of other mob guys or a mob related guys some of which I think you've seen I interviewed John a light did you guys know each other we don't I just remember I never met you on a light he was a different era than me I believe never spoke to him never heard of him don't know who he is he did try to reach out to me a couple of years back and I think in an email or something or I wished him well and that was the extent of it we've had no communication since then okay there's also when this interview hasn't aired yet Frank Cullotta I've never met Frank I know he's in Vegas I know his history a little bit I mean you know when these guys turn and form it you kind of read about him later on II hear about him and he's kind of a mainstay in Vegas I know but I don't know never had anything to do with him at all do you remember when the mob started taking well not taking over but actually launching those casinos in Vegas I do yeah okay was the Colombo family involved in that at all to a degree yeah I mean I had a relationship with people at the dunes hotel at the time and you know a couple of Columbo guys also did and we were involved to a degree it really wasn't our thing totally but yeah we were involved I mean everybody had a hand in I'm a Mars Shankar who owned the dunes at that time I had helped him get some funding for through a union for the hotel that he was building in Atlantic City okay and a lot of us are old enough to remember what that was like we go to Vegas and it's all corporate you know the wind you could buy stock in the wind and you know it's very much of a family kind of environment these days it's it's very commercialized it's really based on all the shows and everything but what was Vegas like back then when the mob was running these casinos it was a lot better I can tell you that you didn't have all the corporate nonsense you had to deal with the Gaming Control Board for some reason they were a little bit more relaxed than they are today today a very strict very stringent and it was wide open and you know I mean I had a blast way back when in Vegas you know back in the late 70s early 80s it was it was just a whole different town and you know you asked a lot of the old-timers that were in Vegas at that time they said it was a lot better when we had a lot to do with it when the mob was in control of a lot of areas in Vegas there was a lot better it was more enjoyable the shows were better everything was better back then now it's it's you know it's different right and you've always been involved in the the whole gambling business I mean when you were when you were active and to the point where you would deal and we've talked about this before you dealt with professional athletes you know these days you actually talk to professional athletes about the dangers of gambling yes and you know me personally I'm not a gambler I'll go play a couple slots and feel stupid and go back to my room that's a good thing I just always felt like I worked too hard for my money to go into a place where I know I'm going to lose it you're right absolutely but you said something interesting in one of your interviews you said that all the guys that you dealt with who were hardcore gamblers all of them told you they could quit anytime but none of them could exactly every gamble would tell you the same thing whenever I want to quit I can stop no problem what is that makes gambling such an addictive thing to people you know it's it's uh it's the thrill of winning it's not even the money it's the thrill of winning because if it was the money they would stop when they got the money that they needed and wanted it they do it's the thrill of winning that that does it I'm convinced you know Michael Jordan said something very interesting recently in one of his interviews they asked him if he had a gambling problem and he said no I don't he said I have a competition problem and you know what in Michaels case that's correct because the gambling doesn't affect his the losses don't affect his lifestyle in any way shape or form he can handle it doesn't matter okay so he doesn't have a gambling problem in that regard because it's not interfering with his life it's not causing him havoc like most other gamblers have to go indoor but he does have a competition problem it raises the stakes and whatever he's competing in to know that he's got money on the line so at him agreed competition problem with everybody else it's a gambling issue you know it's like who was it the other basketball player forget Oh Charles Barkley he said I don't have a gambling problem he lost 10 million dollars at the table but here doesn't have a gambling problem you lose ten million dollars you got a gambling problem trust me on that but I have never talked to a gambler let me let me clarify that 95% of the gamblers I talked to say they can quit anytime they want and that's not true I haven't seen any of those group able to quit whenever they wanted they're always in trouble well the term you always hear in the movies is degenerate gambler exactly it's it's a harsh term but it's the truth they just can't stop it's addictive as anything else it says that as addictive as alcohol or drugs or anything else and and Vlad I've said this I've seen more people addicted to gambling throughout my life and a half for drugs or alcohol it's that bad well I guess we're the the mob differs and has somewhat somewhat of an advantage over traditional gambling is that the mob would give you a line of credit so you didn't actually need the money to gamble you gamble with someone else's money and then when you lose it you have bigger problems exactly I'll tell you what happened in in New York I don't know if you remember when they brought off-track betting into New York you know some of the cops would come to us they came to me and I remember and they said all we're gonna put you guys out of business now we got off-track betting and you know mob guys and everybody on the street they loved to gamble at the track you know that's big in New York and I said really let's wait and see why what happens okay you go to off-track betting you got to put your money down that's it they don't give you credit so what happens when you lose that money and you don't have anymore to put down you go back to the bookie they actually increased gambling on the street when off-track betting came in and by the way you know the footnote to that is off-track betting went broke they went bankrupt at some point I can't understand how a gambling operation can go bankrupt they should have put us in charge we would have made a ton of money for them really well now you have companies like draft King draft Kings that are public companies right actually buy stock it's it's a whole different ballgame now now you have these poker tournaments online that you could bet whatever you want I know gambling is now online gambling is now an established legal thing that can be tracked and you're not worried about someone just stealing all your money do you think that that just increases the number of degenerate gamblers out there without a doubt it's always access you know the more access you have you know the more people that are going to gamble it just makes it easy for everybody and look gambling is it's a tough thing to control it really is and look all the leads you know the NFL I mean they tell you they don't want to see gambling in this sport well that's not true they don't want their players in their personnel involved in gambling but they want people gambling why okay if you live in in if you're a patriot fan okay that's your team you're gonna bet on your team okay but if you're a gambler and you have access to gambling okay you're going to bet on all 10 teams that do all 11 games whatever it's gonna be so they they want you got more you you're actually increasing the fan base when you allow gambling on the sport so all the league's they really encourage gambling from people outside of the sport they want it to happen because it increases attendance and viewership and interest than everything else well remember the movie casino Frank Rosenthal aka lefty he got that casino because he was considered the best gambler out there here I find an edge and I remember the beginning they're like you know he knew how the hardwood reacted and he knew if the quarterback had a pregnant girlfriend and everything else like that did you know Frank at all I didn't know Frank no I did not but you knew of him I know of him sure okay from your point of view what kind of age could someone like that get when it comes to public sporting events information is very helpful that's why they always tell you know players in the locker room what goes on in a locker room stays there do not be giving outside information who might be injured who might be having an emotional problem they don't want any of that information to go out because it does give a gambler an edge because remember this flat it's never about winning or losing it's about the point spread it's all about the spread so any information that you have that in some way can affect a player that can then affect the point spread is valuable and look those handicappers the guys that set the odds and and the the numbers in Vegas these are knowledgeable people I mean they don't always get it right obviously but they get it right a good percentage of the time and really in gambling that's all you need you need to have the edge a good percentage of the time and if you do quite often you'll come out on top well you would a story where you saw Michael Jordan bet Horace Grant $5.00 correct what happened was that he they were playing table tennis and they bet for $5.00 and obviously Michael won and he came over to Horace and he said where's my $5.00 and Horace had a warm-up suit on he so I don't have any money on it I have it in my room Michael said go get it so horace goes up to his room okay comes back and hands michael the $5 and horace looks at him and says $5 michael i mean what's what's the deal and michael holds it up and said this is my trophy i beat you and that's what makes me really believe that with michael it's just the competition i mean what does he need $5 for you know but it's the competition so but he's a hardcore gambler don't let anybody kid you he loves to gamble and he's hardcore you gonna blow on anything it's funny you know what I was with Mike Tyson the other night we went to dinner and we were talking about you know he's training he looks great by the way he's in great shape and you know he's training for a fight so I said Mike are you gonna really do that MMA thing and he was with two of his trainers and they said nah we don't want him doing that but I said Mike do you enjoy that he says to me Michael I love to watch - bugs fight I'll watch them fight all night long he said I'm just saying I want to say everybody fight and I want to watch it all night long you know it's it's that's what he's into you know it's that competition is that that adrenaline rush that he gets same with Michael yeah you guys had a great interview by the way on his podcast yeah he's great Mike you know you know he's he's just so real and so sincere I mean he has no filter as you know but I love him I really do I got to like him a lot well since our last interview Oris bado came on my show yes and said some harsh words about you I sort of feel sorry for Michael I gotta be honest with you and I'll tell you white he's living a life that's not his own wife he should wake up face who he really is I'm he proclaims to be a born-again Christian correct right well then that means he reads the Bible right no look I don't go to church I was born a Catholic a diet Catholic I go to church when there's nobody there once every couple of months maybe so I could have a talk with the guy one-on-one I don't know dancing about a Catholic religion I don't know nothing about any religion but I do know certain things and I think as Exodus 20:16 in the Bible if you're going out preaching it then you should live it and I feel that's what Michael should do you don't think he's living a guy living his father's life he's very jealous of his father he hasn't see Sonny in a year he proclaims he's there all the time he claims I use his funny you think I'm gonna use the rat's name and you show me anybody because somebody else - right there - right right because he he said that he felt that you actually [ __ ] show me a 5k1 show me a proper statement show me a reverse proper statement you won't find one in my entire [ __ ] lifetime and not a person has been investigated arrested or anything because of Morris fatal I can look in a mirror I could put my head on the pillow when I go to sleep well what about Michael French hey you want to talk about will you read it huh I got a piece of paper here I got this Lee [ __ ] about him did I know I know you have 50 million dollars in Panama or at least that's where it originally was 100 put it there I know the lawyer I'm not going to tell you his name all right here's the nurses hour Pete oh I know when you saw that interview what'd you think well I didn't see the whole interview glad i don't i don't watch all of these things but obviously you know i have a lot of followers on social media and immediately they say mike this guy's talking about you and so on and so forth that's how i hear things you know cuz I don't watch all the interview so matter of fact Patrick bet David you know value team had called me when he was doing the Sammy the bull interview and he said Mike you know just see the interview and honestly I didn't watch it I watched a little of it because he asked me to watch it and I kind of corrected him in a few spots on that interview but anyway listen I'm gonna tell you about Orion I don't I met Ori one time I don't like gory I'm gonna tell you a story about already Jack Gilardi who was a big agent in for ICM very dear friend of mine you know he's kind of a legend in the business he passed away not too long ago but he calls me up one day and he says to me Mike there's some guy by the name of Orie spotto is up here and he's kind of threatening me and he's using your name and your father's name he said you know what am I supposed to do I said let me tell you what to do the next time he comes into your office Jack pick up a chair and hit him over the head and throw him the heck out he's a nobody he doesn't belong with anybody here don't listen anything he has to say there's nothing he's gonna do to you or for you get him out well Jack's not the type of guy to hit somebody with a chair but that was what I told him about Orie let me tell you this if Orie was around my father as much as he said he does was I must have been a ghost because I never seen him I never heard of him until I came out to California my brother started hanging out with him and I know they were doing some drug stuff together so I chase story that's number one secondly I had to somebody in the FBI who came to me and told me don't go near this guy or he because he plays both both sides of the street he's an informant and it came out later that it was I know the agent that he was talking to his my effect it's on YouTube but that he had a whole discussion with an agent so I mean you know if I lied I gotta tell you this a lot of guys this has been happening all my life quick story so that you know I'm 20 years old 21 22 maybe I don't know exactly I'm in a San Suzanne it was a club out Long Island was my father was associated with that club he had a silent interest in it right my father had been in jail I'm in the place with a couple of guys the the owner comes over to me and says Mike there's a guy at the bar and he's bothering this woman there and he don't want to leave he said maybe you can talk to her and I'm a Kim Hyung guy so I go and see him and I said look this is this young lady she doesn't want to be bothered why don't you just leave her along and have a drink you know otherwise I'm gonna ask you to leave he looked at me and he said Do You Know Who I am now you gotta understand I hate that line I hate that line you know who I am I said no Hawaii you tell me who you are he said do you know Sonny Franzese I said yeah I know he said Sonny's in prison I make one phone call to his son Michael and he'll be down here in a minute and you'll treat me a little differently the point being now it didn't end nicely for him I got to tell you that but the the point being that people have been using mine and my father's name mostly my father's my whole life you know this guy's on the internet now didn't talking about my dad because that gives them relevance because what else they got to talk about so they associate themselves with my father there's guys online now that are saying things about me I know why because they get more views they mentioned my name and all of a sudden they get V who's you know so a lot of these guys glad they believe me they just want to be they never were and and what can I tell you I want to make this clear to okay all these guys that talked when we took that oath and we were made that was very serious to us anybody that didn't take that oath you could have been a doctor a lawyer to present in the United States we consider them a sucker that was the word you don't take the oath you're a sucker we had a bond between us there was information that we shared that we weren't allowed to share with anybody else I had guys on my crew that I was very close to I wouldn't share privileged information among made guys with them because I couldn't and I wouldn't violate my oath in that point so guys that talk about made guys most of them are full of baloney because they don't know the real story they're on the outside looking in and they want to they want to be relevant they want to be tough guys and so they mentioned things like this you know but I've been dealing with that all my life it really doesn't bother me I'll be honest with you Billy well after we put out that interview you uh gave us an offer we can't refuse yeah and you offered to do a joint interview with the two of you I did who you and Ari and we reached out to worry about that and he turned us down of course because he was absolutely whatever he said he could never say in front of me because he has to be lying if he mentioned anything I don't know the guy honestly I just chased them yeah I mean we even offered to have armed security in the studio in case anyone felt uncomfortable or whatever else and yeah he he turned us down so of course that would have been a hell of an interview it wouldn't have lasted too long bad let me tell you because I guarantee he'd either run out the door I would have made him look so foolish I mean it you know it doesn't make sense I don't know what but again guys want to be relevant so they never mention the names of people how many guys mentioned John Gotti's name because they want to be relevant if they don't mention John Gotti's name who's gonna pay attention to them you know I mean really you know look I knew John okay we didn't hang out together we weren't best friends we had a couple of skirmishes together a few sit downs over a flea market and a little bit in the gas but you know socially you know we would see each other because we went to weddings together we had to go to funerals together where we were at the same places so you know but other people that mentioned John and they knew him like they were best friends it's all nonsense well I had trust me it really is so I want to talk about some of the people that you used to be associated with the first is Gregory Scarpa who was the main hitman for Colombo boss Persico now this guy had some aliases can you tell me what they are the Grim Reaper that's the one I know of well let me correct something when you say he was the main hitman for Persico this is another fallacy that people don't understand when you take that oath and you come into that life Vlad you are capable of doing what you need to be did what needs to be done and I got to be careful how I talk about this because I'm not one of those guys that go out there and want to brag about you know I killed a hundred guys and all that nonsense okay but you're expected okay to be able to do work when you need when it's when it's called upon you to do it and you understand what I'm saying we're all capable everybody is capable or you wouldn't be part of that life you couldn't take the oath if you aren't capable of doing that now here's the way it goes there are some people you reach a certain level in that life there are some people that that are earners and obviously it's important to earn money for the family so if you have that ability and you know how to use that life to benefit you in business to benefit the family in business well you're going to move in that direction if you're a guy that's basically a hanger-on and you you know you don't have that ability to earn money well then you're going to be called upon to do other things because you still have to have a value in that life so it's not that you're more capable it's just that that becomes your role because you're not capable to earn the money like other guys can so yeah I'll say this about Greg Greg was both Gregor and money okay he was an earner in that regard but he also maybe I should say he enjoyed doing the work he enjoyed it me personally I wasn't a big fan of Greg's he wasn't just a real pleasant guy to be around you know it was that way and I was around him a lot because he was you know we were on Carroll Street and broke them quite a bit but you know you know the story with him a lot of it is exaggerated but a lot of it is true well why is he called the Grim Reaper because it seems like he enjoyed doing the work you know there was some guys they had honestly they enjoyed doing it I mean that was their thing and he I think falls into that category and he it wasn't a very affable guy he didn't have a smile on his face all the time you know he's very serious in that regard so I guess that's why he got the name him I didn't name him but you know she certainly got that name well according to the FBI they believe the heat murdered up to 120 people here's here's my feeling I thought let me explain it guys that I don't know where there's a hundred guys in that life to kill I mean you don't kill a hundred guys when you're in the war in Vietnam I I don't know one soldier that can claim to kill a hundred guys and he's at war where are these guys how could you kill a hundred guys if you killed a hundred guys you'd wipe out the whole Colombo family we had 115 guys so I mean this is it's it it's it's beyond belief that Vlad once somebody is telling you this that every day they killed somebody else every day beat somebody else up it's nonsense now look my father allegedly who was one of the main enforces for the Colombo family they only had him at 30 or 40 I guess he wasn't that capable right and that's according to the FBI but even that my father said that Mike he's dead now I can't argue so Mike I killed a lot of guys but it wasn't what the FBI said my dad told me that he has no reason to lie to me we were both made guys so how do you kill 120 guys yeah I mean I'm going through the story I guess in 1991 they say he committed three murders but then they was suspected a minimum of 80 murders between the 50s and 92 and then in total they're saying from 100 120 people were killed under this guy all right I spent 25 years in that life 25 years fled I can count on on both hands the number of guys that I know that were murdered I spent 25 years I mean that I personally have knowledge of now you know maybe any other families there was stuff but one guy in one family how could he kill 120 guys I find that very hard to believe even if the family went to war my dad was in the war and he can't claim that many killings I mean it doesn't make sense yeah do the math well he was also called the Mad Hatter yeah that's true I forgot that one man had it what's that what's that about again you know the guy he wasn't a likable guy wasn't an affable guy you know he talked about you know violent things more than another guy might have so you know some of these guys were crazy I got me honestly yeah they were a little loony you know and I be he falls into that category well I guess he became an informant like 30 years that's what we heard and boy that was terrifying news you know even for me because you know as a captain I was around him quite a bit and we had a lot of discussions about certain things and I said man this guy is gonna put me in trouble too you know I mean I didn't know so yeah when you hear that you know it's like Willie boy Johnson who is in a gaudy screw you know I was very close to him I was shy lacking money with him and I heard he was an informant for years and years and years I thought maybe I would have a problem with him I never did thank God but yeah I mean it was it was frightening information when you hear that about somebody that was so close to us right because you use a capo for the Colombo family yeah and you're a captain so that's that below a capo no it's the same thing listen the the technical Italian mafia term is capo regime that's it okay but you shorten it to say capo but the technical term its capo regime that's what everybody among each other we called each other capo regime soldier boss underboss consul Gary that's how we spoke among each other okay and I guess Scarpa as he was working with the FBI he was tied into the whole Mississippi Burning story where I guess the FBI brought him to Mississippi to go hunt down the Klansmen that were involved in the murders and he actually managed to do it that's correct yeah crazy he eventually contracted HIV correct and believed he died of AIDS right he did he died of AIDS well there's also Roy DeMeo another guy another guy that had a crew and you know they did a lot of work no doubt about it I didn't have personal involvement with Roy I knew him we met but you know it's another crew but he did a lot of work no doubt where I he was with the Gambino crime family correct and once again well they're saying that his crew killed over a hundred people you know they throw these numbers around but they're not identifying these people you know like okay they said let me tell you another thing glad if somebody's going to get on here and say that they killed a hundred people they're either in one or two categories first category is they cooperated with the government okay became an informant got immunity for all their crimes including murder okay second category they never really committed the murders so if you never committed the murder you can say I killed a thousand people what's the difference okay so you form you're in one of those two categories I'm gonna tell you something I had to do things in that life I don't want to talk about it why should it I don't have an immunity I'm not an informant okay and I'm not proud of what I did so what do I want to talk about I don't think people want to hear about that stuff I don't know maybe these mob enthusiasts or these mob junkies and there's a lot of them out there well groupies whatever they want to hear that stuff I'm not interested in talking about that right because you did an interview on BuzzFeed and you had to answer questions and one of them is have you ever killed someone and you were like I don't want to talk about it I mean look it's like I said I don't have immunity for things like that not at all I never cooperated with the government to that degree where I was given immunity for my crimes you know so and and even if I were you know if if I didn't kill people I would say yeah killed everybody what's the difference you know you if if that makes me a tough guy then yeah I killed a hundred people I'm not going to get in trouble because it never happened well I remember on the Tison podcast they asked you if you ever saw someone get put to sleep and you said yes yeah and this is during one of these uh you know meetings uh what do you mean during a meeting well a sit-down like I sit down the chores into a murderer essentially well that doesn't happen at a sit-down blood no does it no I mean you may be cold in for that but if that's gonna happen it happens before the sit-down it's already it's already happened you may say you have a meeting you have to attend but by the time you walk in that door it's over there's no meeting okay so will you've walked into people where that's ended up happening well let's put it this way I know of people that that happened to yes did they know what was about to happen no no I mean one of the horrors of that life and I have to say it now is that you know you're called into a meeting you don't know you're in trouble you made a mistake it's already predetermined you walk in you don't walk out again I mean that's a factor that life it's an ugly fact that life but it happens right I remember in an interview when you first became a made man you and your father had a conversation he said as close as we are after you know if we have to do something together afterwards we never talk about it again my father said to me if you and I ever went out and committed a crime of any nature once one second after we committed that crime if you ask me about it I'm gonna say I don't know what you're talking about so that's how I was brought up that's what I understood so to me there are no war stories I don't like to go back and talk about things that were of a criminal nature because it doesn't serve any purpose well another figure that you knew or were associated with somehow was a Nicky Scarfo yes who was the boss of the Philly crime fell directly had an interesting story because as he was going through his his trials and arrests and everything he had a son named Mark Scarfo who actually tried to kill himself and essentially succeeded he tried to hang himself they managed to just you know stop him from dying but he went into a coma and he was in that coma until he died so it's actually his son killed himself and it was allegedly because of all the pressure of what his dad was doing yes so tell me about Nicky and in this whole story well listen I'm not familiar I mean I don't have personal knowledge of that story in other words I wasn't a part of it it wasn't there a different crew obviously from Philly but I knew Nicky fairly well and I liked Nicky a lot you know I had a good relationship with him and the main thing that we were doing we were going to organize the security guards in Atlantic City so we were planning to do that together as a result I met with him you know a couple of times in that regard because he had control in Atlantic City but yeah that was a very sad story look Nicky was you know he was he's one of those little crazy guys I would like to I would say even though when we sat down he was but look there is a lot of pressure on the children of guys in the mob I mean look my sister became a drug addict my brother became a drug addict my if you listen to my brother talk he says Mike I don't know how he came out of that life anyway normal and I said well bro you you didn't come out normal you know you had a lot of problems he says well I don't know how you survived this well I don't know either I guess I'm just blessed but it you know it's a whole different atmosphere of growing up especially when you have somebody as high-profile as Sonny Franzese or Nicky Scarfo I mean it's it's a lot of pressure it really is right right I mean because when you hear these stories you know because his son when he hung himself was 17 right I mean he can he was still in high school and when you hear these types of stories with the families of these mob guys you look at that story then you look at your story with your family and it's not much different disaster and is this essentially most families are like this you know I'm in touch with with three sons of fathers that were in that life three of them whose dads were murdered or doing a lot of time in prison and every one of them have severe emotional problems severe and they you know they took to me we talked and we had you know I advised them or whatever as best I can try to minister to NAMBLA but I mean it's a lot of pressure on the families and you know young kids they have I'll tell you something it's it's I don't know if there's a relationship between this two but I'll tell you young kids have a problem some of them coping with things my friend is the chief of police over at UCLA Chief of Police he said once a month we have a hanging there from a student that can't accept the pressure of being in UCLA and succeeding I was shocked at that statistic he said almost once a month well imagine what guys have do with these young people have to go through and with it with a father in the mob who's getting arrested who's getting locked up police come in six o'clock in the morning today you got money tomorrow you have nothing problem with the you know your mom going through all that issues [ __ ] I mean it's tough it's very very tough yeah I bet I bet yeah I mean I can't even imagine being woken up at 6:00 in the morning and my family getting arrested and so forth but that was just a regular a regular occurrence for you guys you know how many times I went through that I mean my dad was arrested five or six times and they always come at 6:00 in the morning guns blazing microphone outside the house come out with your hands up the rest of the neighborhood looking on what's doing everybody now knows who you are you go to school you got to hear all the nonsense you know your dad's a Mafia dad you know I mean this is a lot for a young person to handle I mean my sister's couldn't handle it my brother couldn't handle it properly so I understand I don't I don't know how honestly I don't know how I got out of there halfway normal I really don't well at one point you were actually paying Noriega correct what for exactly well we were we were use in Panama as we had a compound in Panama when I was in the gas business and the reason we chose Panama because it was a country that Noack had no extradition between Panama and the United States if we ever had to go there for any reason I never looked at that that would be an asylum for me but my partner Larry I Rizzo did and we were actually paying off Norio Noriega so that we can maintain that compound and be assured that if we had to seek asylum there we wouldn't have any problems and it didn't work out that way for I original but we also were using Panamanian companies to run our gas business with because you know a Panamanian company at that time we only needed a company to have a bank account and a Panamanian company at that time had bearer stocks so you didn't have to fill out a lot of papers if you held the stock you own the company so it was very simple we had like 18 Panamanian companies how much did you pay Noriega total I you know I it was really dealt through AIA Rizzo and Noriega but we were paying him upwards of 50 grand a month hmm right I just interviewed uh Jorge Valdez you know who he is no I don't think so well he was one of the big drug traffickers during the 70s and 80s he's a Cuban guy that was affiliated with the Colombians got it and at one point he had a plane that you know was filled with drugs that crashed in Panama and you know he was arrested and he was actually tortured by Noriega mhm and then later on he said how he end up being locked up in the same prison as Noriega and he said how great it was to actually see the guy you know locked up later on the u.s. actually ended up invading Noriega and then locking him up how did you feel when you heard you know years later about what happened in Noriega well how about how do I feel when I walk into the same prison and here I'm in the yard in there here he is in this cell right in front of me looking like a monkey in a cage with his low orange suit I walked out to him and I said you know do you remember me you look at stuff I used to look with that military uniform and I didn't say a word to me or anything like that but Noriega a bad guy well he wasn't bad with us but everything that we heard about him yeah I mean look I never was in Panama never visited I never had to go there so I can't speak you know personally about the experience but from what I understand he was he was a bad guy yes and you guys actually bribed politicians quite a bit we did yeah okay cuz I guess at one point well in order to get the gas business going you'd have to keep bribing politicians to get all these licenses and everything else like that we paid them off to get me in particular paid off so we can get licenses to collect the tax you had to have a license as a wholesaler to collect the tax now would it just simply be a political contribution or is it much more stealthy in terms of how you get him the money it was well we did a lot of political contributions at the time for a lot of the heavyweights in New York but there was more to that there was envelopes there was envelopes what's the most you were given what's the most you've ever given a politician under the table for me at one shot it was 25 grand okay and back then 25 which was significant money right and I guess but again it's that that's at one shot and a lot of times that was consistent right and I guess at one point the mob controlled all the security guard you unions that's correct where all the I guess in nine nuclear power plants all the security guards were controlled by the mob yeah I was actually with fella by name of Danny Cunningham that was my Union I controlled that and you know I don't know if you know this but at the time I don't know if it's changed when a nuclear power plant was shut down you had to have security there for a hundred years after it was shut down so we had security God's basically around there doing nothing and getting paid but it was a great deal I bet well the more I go through these mafia stories and interview people and so forth the more it seems like a lot of people ultimately end up cooperating now know you yourself you didn't put anyone in prison but you did cooperate somewhat with the feds John a light he cooperated you know against John Gotti jr. Frank Cullotta he cooperated he was in the witness protection program the list kind of goes on and on and on ultimately what percentage of people who do you think cooperate versus you know take their time all right let me let me I think we have to make a distinction here because this is obviously something that it's very sensitive to me when a guy becomes an informant enters the witness protection program and starts going on trial and putting people in prison that's one category and and Val I've been on trial five times in my life I want to tell you this I have never and I'll take this to my grave I have never seen an informant to cooperating witness get on the stand put his left hand on a Bible right hands swear to tell the truth and lie through his teeth and that even included my brother when my brother took the stand against my father when somebody cooperates and becomes an informant they do that because they don't want to go to prison they can say all the things that they want they can say oh they had a turn they don't want to go to jail because the FBI tells him you got to spend the rest of your life here you cooperate with us we'll give you a break that's why people become informants okay that's exactly why in my case I want to be clear I I took a plea I took a 10-year prison sentence 15 million dollars in restitution five million in forfeitures there was no cooperation agreement at all in that plea it's a matter of public record you can go and look at it that was it I had done almost four years in prison when I was picked up in the middle of the night and brought into Chicago with this whole Norby Walters thing okay I had 18 months to go maybe less sixteen months to go on my time and I was out on the ten years because back then you could make parole but even if I maxed out with good time I had 16 months left to go the only reason I took the stand against Norby Walters number one I was subpoenaed and number two because they threatened at that time to lock up my father and my brother because of involvement would noir be I didn't want my father to have any more aggravation and they had me on tape giving Norby what not me I'm sorry they had my brother-in-law delivering two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to Norby at that time okay to be his partner what happened was Norby was threatening people I was in jail he was threatening these athletes with using my name I didn't know anything about that was in prison when I took the stand against norbi okay I had first sent him a message I said norbi they want to give you 16 months co-op take the plea okay you've been using us for 30 years in your life take the plea spare me the aggravation spare my brother and my father he refused to do it when they came in all I said was look I gave the guy 250,000 it's on tape I know Norby all my life yes he was associated with us as far as what he did I don't know I was in prison that's the testimony they had me understand a half an hour that was it okay so I didn't get enter in a cooperation agreement and I didn't testify against anybody else I didn't put anybody else in prison what my thing on it because you give me the opportunity to say this Vlad so I hope you do print it they brought me in while I was on parole to testify against John Rigi because I had information and an informant had told them that I was John riggies partner we were collecting $2 tariffs and every window that was brought into Manhattan in the construction of a building we John Reid and I were partners I refuse to cooperate against him because he was my friend ten days after that they violated my parole and threw me back in prison so all this nonsense about me being a dry snitch it's all nonsense now let me clarify this - okay yes I talked to the FBI now in general terms about stuff I mean I I shouldn't say now back then okay yes I cooperate with the police now they take me into prison I speak to young gangbangers and stuff like that but I want to make this clear nobody ever went to prison because of Michael Franzese ever and Nobby Walters never did one day not one day I knew what I was doing with Norby I understand this stuff I've been around it all my life he never went he never did one hour in prison so nobody ever went to prison because of Michael Franzese I appreciate you letting me say my piece thank you but you see a lot of other guys do it yes yes listen let me tell you something in my opinion the racketeering law the bail Reform Act they changed everything because under that RICO statute you get so much time that guys just didn't want to go to prison for that length of time no more parole they abolished it you couldn't get bail you're either a danger to the community or a flight risk okay the government won what happened was the fear of the mob was transferred to fear of the government so guys say I'm not gonna go to jail for the rest of my life and they became informants that's it and in that regard okay the government won they had all the tools to make people turn and you saw you know there's a great line in one of the movies of the Bronx Tale I asked when Sonny was asked you know what's better fear or love and Sonny I think said fear not true because that fear can be translated or transferred to somebody else and that's what happened in our life but when somebody loves you they're gonna stand by you as much as they possibly can but when fear can be transferred to something else and that's what happened in my former life fear was transferred to the government guys started cooperating and it wasn't a young guys a lot of old guys cooperated - a lot of old guys just to want to spend that time in prison right because since our last interview Takashi 6:9 ended up testifying against his entire gang exactly we we counted it he helped give out over 77 years to all the guys that were that he was involved with and two guys who are waiting life sentences right now so and he's on the stand he's telling him everything and as he you know after he came out he's playing the victim oh these guys kidnapped me oh these guys threatened my mother and everything else like that but ultimately what I always try to push is he only started to tell when he was facing a bunch of time himself he put a hit out on someone that's on video that ended up involving the shooting later on that he paid for he was getting people robbed he was causing beef with people and so forth and then when he got caught with a gun and stolen property and the video of him putting a hit out and he was facing 47 years he told on everybody and now he's you know hip hop's you know rat who raps raps about writing I mean when you look at that what do you think again he didn't want to do the time he didn't want to go to jail it's why these guys informed they don't inform because they had to change your heart I want to say this and and and and I'm using it as an example as Patrick asked me about Sammy the bull and what do they think about his testimony and I heard what Sammy said Sammy said that John was going to turn against him and put all the weight on him that he had to take all the weight I'll tell you why I have a problem with that Vlad and that's why he testified that's why he turned because John turned on him in that way I'll tell you why I have a problem with that John and I had the same lawyer at that time okay he had Bruce and I had John Jacobs they were in the same offices I would go up to the office and I would hear there was 2,000 hours worth of tapes on Gotti and his crew and I listened to some of those tapes with with a couple of the guys that were listening to them right there was no way John was all over those tapes saying things admitting things there's no way he could transfer that to Sammy John was the boss so I have a problem believing that John was gonna lay all the weight on Sammy because it wouldn't have been a good defense number one and number two honestly I don't think that was John style I really don't but what I said to what I said to Patrick when you forgot to as Sammy he testified against 35 other guys it wasn't only John okay now I'm not gonna say anything maybe Sammy didn't want to do the time maybe had another reason I don't know and it's not for me to comment on that but for me for the most part guys snitch because they don't want to go to jail and do that amount of time they don't want to die in prisons yeah me and uh Sammy had a phone call where we discussed potentially doing an interview uh he's uh he's a rough guy that personality is still there still there still know what got me in the interview Vlad you know it got me I got to say this because it was funny in a way the Machiavellian mentality you know Patrick asked him he said hey you know all these murders that you admitted to 19 murders and he turned to Bonnie's will nobody ever asked me how I felt when I did that murder and he said I was at a funeral and I was staring at a guy who was laying in the coffin that I killed he says and I was mad at the guy look what you made me do that's what I mean I cracked up at that point it's not funny I mean I understand that but I'm saying wow look at that Machiavellian mentality blaming the guy in the coffin okay that you had a murder him that's that's unique I got to tell you that well the Mafia was always a very secretive organization but then you said when the Godfather movie came out everything changed yes I mean obviously that was I was just starting out when the Godfather came out I noticed that guys were more outward about who they were you know it was different right and what I didn't know was that Joe Colombo actually edited that script yeah Joe Colombo looked at the script he took the word mafia out of the script it was in there several times prior to that but he deleted it and I don't want to say he rewrote the script that's going a little bit too far but he made sure that there was nothing in there that he felt was offensive to our lifestyle and listen can't say did damage it was a great movie it was one of the greatest movies ever made so he didn't hurt it right I'm sure that his talks with Scorsese was kind of interesting yes you know cuz uh when I interviewed Frank Cullotta he was actually hired to help work on casino so then in 1995 Martin Scorsese ends up releasing the casino movie which is based on this whole story that we talked about and you're actually a consultant on that film yes and you would actually sit on set with Martin and you would basically give your opinion on whether this was accurate whether it was not accurate and your character was played by Frank Vincent your name in the movie was Frank Marino Tony's character was played by Joe Pesci his name the movie was Nikki some total Center Oh mm-hmm and you know to me I feel that casino is Scorsese's best movie period oh do you really well thank you very much yeah I liked it better because of me that way they'll admit it to Nick Pileggi and Martin with Scorsese will admit that I give him the insight I tried to correct every cushion at exaggerate you know that has to be people need to be they like violence people are crazy they like violence so they add on to it you know yeah hell of a movie hang hell of a movie and I did sit there and a director sure right next on you know Scorsese was interacting with the real guys yeah in the creation of these movies in that in the first Godfather movie there was a scene with a horse head ended up in that guy's bed and you said that you never did anything like that but you did some similar things well Alyssa that was unique I mean I wish I would have thought of that but but no I'm only kidding but it was it was a very memorable scene I mean look you know we we would try to avoid violence Vlad actually I mean obviously I mean honestly I should say I mean I did it was kind of a last resort for me so if we had to get a message across to somebody it's not as dramatic as a horse said trust me but we made people understand that you know do the right thing so we don't have to go to the next level on this and without getting into detail on it you know certain things that I you know you just don't talk about well my final question is this and I'm saving it for the final question for a very good reason when you and I did an interview a while back and we talked about the murder of Michael Jordan's father and there was always the rumor that it has something to do with his gambling and you felt there was some sort of connection between this event and joins gambling I interviewed Daniel Green who was one of the two guys convicted of Michael Jordan's murder who's actually doing life in prison right now mm-hmm now there's two guys involved he said the guy who I interviewed said that the other guy killed him and then went to him to help get rid of the body the other guys saying they were both together and the guy and Daniel Green was the one who pulled the trigger essentially these are the only two witnesses in the whole situation and they got caught because they were driving around in the in the Lexus and we're making phone calls with the car phone and and you know and other other things that pretty much guaranteed them life in prison now when I asked did Jordans Mert Michael Jordan's father's murder have anything to do with gambling or the Mafia or anything else like that he said absolutely not he said there's absolutely no truth in that this guy had pulled over on the side of the road he went to sleep the the motel he was next to was a drug spot was a place where drugs were bought and sold there was prostitution and so forth there was a lot of illegal activity he was in the wrong place the wrong time someone saw an easy robbery that turned into a murder and that's what happened - had nothing to do with Jordans gambling when I tell you this what do you think you know I mean I listen to that also with Michael I watched the witch what I thought was a great documentary I watched it and I have to believe that the guy is telling the truth you got to remember back in the day I was around you know the NBA and I was doing a lot of sports things at that time and there was a lot of rumbling and there was a lot of not a lot but there were a few people that allegedly were in the know that was saying it had something to do with Michael Jordan's gambling I think that's been debunked I don't think that's true at this point in time but it certainly was being talked about at that time because Michael had that gambling issue and so on and so forth but I mean I would I would tend to believe what we're hearing now and look these guys I guess would have no reason to I mean it wasn't mob-related I don't believe that I've never said that but I did hear that it has something dude what is gambling at the time but again you know rumors always abound when it comes to somebody like that so I would have to say that you know that was incorrect information at the time right just to put it in perspective these guys were 18 at a time yeah that they drove around in the stolen Lexus for a week right and the guy that I interviewed ended up making a rap video at his house wearing the jewelry from Jordan's father the the watch and the championship ring that Jordan gave him in a video that they found so these were not I you know criminal masterminds that are orchestrating this retaliation for for gambling debts these are two dumb teenagers who were living in trailer parks at the time that got caught up killing someone who was extremely important and now are doing life in prison because of it well what you just said you know describe certainly puts a lid on it for me I mean you know what's a mob-related a month mobsters do silly things at times but not something like that so yeah you know I'm sorry if I even inferred that at the time but that's what I heard I mean there was rumors going around and you know everything was heated at that time with Michael and and people were just speculating but I'm glad to hear that well I'm not glad to hear what happened but I'm glad to hear it had nothing to do with Michael because that would be a tough thing to carry around in life well look I've interviewed everyone around the murder of Tupac and other mythical figures like Jordan and for years the story was so Suge had him killed the government had him killed the cop switched the bodies and so forth and I've interviewed not only people that were there with Tupac during the murder but I interviewed ki fede who was in the car that killed Tupac and they laid out all the events and all the events have always matched up to the guy they beat up in the casino came back with a gun and killed him which was the obvious choice but to this day people don't believe that no no it was really shook Suge killed him so you own his record masters even though here's a guy that's three times the size of Tupac in a car the car is randomly sprayed up from front to back and you mean to say that you put a hit out on someone when you're sitting in the car with them it's ridiculous yeah it is and and just so you know shoulds lawyer is my lawyer you know and I've known him for 35 40 years now and I don't believe she had anything to do with that well you talk about David Kenner yeah ah yeah okay I know David for a long time he's uh he's a great guy I love him and I don't believe she got anything to do with that okay because David Kenner was considered the mob lawyer when he went over to uh to death row well you know he I don't know if he was a mob lawyer but we trusted him and he represented a lot of guys and until today I mean I spoke to David yesterday so he's representing me on it on a legitimate deal contracted okay so yeah he's a great guy all right well I need a David Kenner interview I'm gonna I'm gonna hit you up for a favor here David is terrific you'll love him no have you ever interviewed him I've never even gotten a contact on him before he's such a shadowy figure yes I feel he's a great guy I don't know if he'll agree to it but I'll talk to him about it how does he feel I mean he wasn't shug's lawyer at the point where sugar got his 28 years all right no I don't believe so did you ever talk to him about how he feels about his former business partner being in prison for possibly the rest of his life not in depth not in detail no but like I said I know David a long time and and as a result of that I don't believe she got anything to do with Tupac let's leave it at that yeah I completely agree well Michael Franzese thank you so much for joining us again glad if I can say one more thing because it's I think it's very pertinent through the things that we're going through now and I know you know I've gotten some tremendous followers as a result of these interviews people that I still associate with you know through social media but you know with respect to what's going on now again I totally condemn would happen with that cop and Floyd I think it was a hundred percent wrong I think the culture of that Police Department and a number of police departments across the country needs to have a real good look at it I think it's a cultural thing starts at the top you know really and they have to kind of change the attitude and if there is racism unghh these police departments they have to do something to change that without a doubt and I stand by these protesters and these demonstrators I think is power in numbers and I think when you have a gripe like this it's good to get together because people listen when they hear numbers but I believe in peaceful protests peaceful demonstrations I do believe there's something more behind these rioters I think that they're trying to cause chaos there is outside groups that are stirring them up I think there's enough evidence of that to support that and I totally you know I totally condemn that those actions but black lives matter to me no doubt about it I have a lot of black friends and a lot of black friends in prison we used to hang out together play softball racquetball together and I've had black friends my whole life and we always got along so I just hope that something good comes out of all of this I really do and my heart goes out to Floyd's family mine as well might as well very sad time right now hopefully by time this part of the interview airs things would have resolved to a certain degree meaning that some laws start to get changed things start to really move in more of a positive direction but I mean at this date Donald Trump is not addressing the underlying problem of what's happening he's just underlined he's just addressing the riders you know he thinks that quelling the riots is gonna fix the problem it's not yeah I know that glad but look you know I know there's so much I mean look any time anybody can take a shot now I'm not saying you are at Trump they do but you know Obama had eight years to you know I gotta tell you this I met Obama I pictures with and we met on a beach in Hawaii really enjoyed you know a short conversation that I had with him and I was very high on him becoming president I said wow we have a black president we know racism exists in this country here's a guy that can go do a lot okay make a lot of advance towards ending some of this racist nonsense that we had and he was a real disappointment to me I don't believe he did that during his eight-year term you know and I give you an example the city of Chicago his town okay I don't think he visited that town once in eight years there's more murders in that town then there is across the country why you know I felt oh boy could have got in there okay and spoke to some of the black guys that are doing all of these killings and said hey get together here and I know how I would have spoken to them to really lay down the law and stop all of this nonsense so you know you can't lay the blame fully on Obama because this has been going on for a long time but I think it was a it was a missed opportunity with his presidency and that's why you know Biden to me is a joke I mean this guy's been around longer than the tree outside that's a hundred years old and what has he done you know if he thinks he's going to come in now if the eight years as vice president and he's going to resolve everything it's nonsense this is going to take the whole country it's gonna take dialogue it's going to take work it's going to take counseling no one person can handle this but you know hopefully we do get it under control because it's a horrible thing that's going on it is it is and hopefully it will be improved I mean like you said racism will always be there but hopefully it will be improved and they'll be some laws enacted that's where we hope some of the some of the cops will actually start to feel the ramifications of these types of murders and this type of abuse of their power they should and and and I'll tell you I think they need to charge all four of these cops you can't stand around and watch this for nine minutes and not do anything about it blood and I think they're all responsible they all need to be held accountable yeah and you know I'm just gonna end it with this the whole the whole concept of a policeman is usually not something that the best-of-the-best aspire to like when do you hear like a valedictorian at a high school say hey as soon as I graduate I'm gonna become a cop when do you see the best and the brightest say I'm gonna join the police force you never hear that some people say the FBI or the CIA or something you know in those regards or some people want to be a district attorney or or a judge or something like that but when do you see the best and the brightest aspired to be policeman you never hear that so you have these group of people who are somewhat underachievers becoming this huge group of people who have guns and don't usually have ramifications for the violent actions they do against the people that they're supposed to protect so I don't know if you look at the underlying things where you could actually attract better people into these organizations I think you'll see a change over time that's quite possibly I mean I you know I can't really speak to that but I will tell you one exception my daughter okay my daughter Amanda who is a college graduate graduated San Diego State she was gonna be a criminal justice attorney that was her desire while she wakes up one morning says dad I want to join the police department and I was stunned I said what she said yeah I want to do some good she said I really feel that that's where I can do the most good very bright young lady educated and she really was committed it committed to doing it problem was Santa Monica Police Department Newport Beach there's a waiting list you know you couldn't get in otherwise she might be wearing that badge today but and so hopefully there are a lot more people like her that we just really committed think they can do some good in the community so look you know I know I know a lot of good cops and I know a lot of cops that I'd rather not associate with so it's like anything else is good and bad in anything but again starts from the top the culture like I heard the the mayor in Minneapolis say that he knew that there was racism going on in the police department for a long time well you're the mayor you're in charge of that why didn't you do something to change the culture of that department this is where this whole incident started why didn't you immediately get in there and say hey we got to make some changes grab a police chief that that is is sensitive to this and is going to make some changes if you know that this is permeating throughout your department I heard that I was like stunned that's a little late for him to be saying that should have said it when he became the mayor okay and I just don't want to lose the irony of what you just said okay the mix that you mean to tell me that the daughter of a captain from the Colombo crime family who stole hundreds of millions of dollars so the government is now going to be a cop well she's not now I mean thank god she's got two children now and she had to get off of that but she was really committed she went through chaining she did everything I mean and she scored very very high and I had some friends in the police department in Beverly Hills that were actually sponsoring her cuz she scored high she did terrific but there was just too long a waiting list and then she got married got pregnant had my grandchildren so that didn't happen but yes and the irony in that I mean I would talk to my wife and said do you believe this our people are really gonna believe this I said I don't know if she'll arrest me if I did something wrong I said she's that committed so so she might have done it I tell you she's jeez that's her you know that's her mentality you know I got to tell you all my kids very law-abiding my wife she wouldn't stand for me doing anything wrong at this point she's had enough of that you know she tells me straight out yeah you better do the right thing because I'm not going through any more of that nonsense and I okay oh man all right we're gonna end it at that Michael Franzese thank you so much always a pleasure all right Clive thank you you take the next time stay safe yes sir you too all right man

Channel: djvlad

Views: 889,865

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Id: cGPRHO88qs8

Length: 85min 39sec (5139 seconds)

Published: Wed Jul 01 2020