The Real Life GOODFELLAS: Mafia Boss made $8 Million a Week! @michaelfranzese

you were about 17 when your dad got sentenced to 50 years in jail she was kind of like the John Gotti of his day very high profile always under investigation always a major Target of law enforcement so I grew up with that when my dad was ready to propose me he said I got to ask you one question son if you ever had to kill anybody could you do it under the right conditions Dad yeah I can do it he said that's the right answer there was certain things I did in that life that I was very uncomfortable with quite honestly I kind of stepped outside of myself hey I've got an order this has got to be done there was six of us the night I got made five of them were murdered we were told straight out you deal with drugs you die you become an informant you pay with your life your best friend walks you into a room you don't walk out again he would bring guys in there and actually murder them chop up their bodies and and disposing them as a matter of fact one of the guys responsible for that is getting out of prison fairly soon we didn't obey the law we didn't care about that you know we would do whatever we had to do we bringing in 6 7 810 million a week you know but they said to me look look you're either going to cooperate with us because he's implicated other guys or we're going to indict you for what this guy is saying I said take your best shot I told him right then they had me in lockdown for 29 months and 7 Days in solitary you want to get out of here you know just talk to watch leave me [Music] alone welcome back to the true Jordie podcast everyone who knows me knows I love anything Mafia related all the gangster movies I'm addicted and I'm so to say we have got one of the Real Deals in studio today it's Michael Francis you got it thank you for coming mate good to be here all the way from America um you're going to be doing a tour March 15th starts in London yes excited for that and you're going to be around for a while so there's loads of opportunities for people to come and see you right yeah three- We Tour Brian and and the reason I came back I was here um not L this summer but the summer before and it was such a great tour people were wonderful I didn't realize how into the mob stuff they are here in the UK but uh we had I think 15 dates and uh it was great you know I met so many people and uh just was excited to come back so I think we're at three weeks uh probably 12 cities and uh very excited so can't wait yeah well people people have to go and check you out cuz I've been obsessed with your YouTube channel for years now and I want to give a little bit of background for people who may not be familiar with you because by the age of 35 Fortune Magazine listed Francis as number 18 on its list of 50 most most wealthy and Powerful Mafia bosses and apparently generating up to $8 million a week it was a life of crime for 28 20 years on the street arrested 18 times eight years in prison um even name checked in the good Fell's movie which was where a lot of people would have heard your name before without realizing It Good Fellas is a movie that I am I've just watched a million times what was it like for you to be named in that movie well you know I was kind of shocked I had just gotten out of prison and so I took my wife to see the movie and you know she's not into all of the mob stuff she lived through it so I had to almost drag her to the movie you know so it was funny Brian the way it opens up it's pretty graphic you know stabbing him in the car and all that so my wife turned to me and she said is this what your life was really all about and I said come on honey it's a movie they make things up don't don't worry about it no sooner I say that then they have the bar scene and there's Michael Franc so she looks at me I come on let's go we left right cuz I'm saying this was a different family but I knew Henry Hill very well I knew Jimmy Burke very well so the writer Nick pedi he put me in there he said Michael you had name value you know we wanted to put you in the film so it was kind of a you know I didn't expect it but um you know it's uh so many people have mentioned that now because the film was you know one of the best films ever in that life really and your named in a scene that is Iconic in that right before the how might funny and all of that bit so it's a bit that everyone always wants to rewatch and uh you mentioned Henry Hill obviously it is a dramatized version of reality how far away from reality was that movie in your opinion well the movie was pretty realistic as far as the characters the way they were depicted the story was pretty well on tap but you know and I teased Henry about this Henry never looked so good as he did in that movie yeah that was a handsome man playing him yes and they made him a lot more important really than he was in that life cuz he there he wasn't a maid guy obviously cuz his dad was a was an Italian but you know Henry had some issues I mean he had a drug issue had an alcohol issue so he wasn't that prominent in the life but uh you know hey it was a great movie they did a good job and you know I actually seen a video of Henry as an older man going back around the old neighborhood and even still being very frightened you know in his older age even well let me tell you what happened I'm in uh terminal Island prison and I'm doing my time and I was in there for a couple of years and I I walk out into the yard and we just got out of the chow hall and I see a guy and I kind of recognized him I didn't realize it was Henry because he had he had really aged right so I go back to my cell and the lieutenant calls me into the office and he says to me Michael uh did you notice somebody in the yard I said no what are you talking about you he come on Michael it was Henry and Henry at that time was on separation from all of us because you know had cooperated and all that and he looked at me and he said you know Henry just pced up he put himself in Pro protective custody because he saw you and you know he's in trouble I said he's got nothing to worry about with me so we're going to have to ship you out they were going to ship me out I said hey I've been here for a couple of years is close to my ship him out right so finally they did but uh that was kind of the last encounter I had with him wow yeah and in terms of like you know the entertainment side of things the depictions that we've seen so many times is there a a movie or a TV show maybe Sopranos or a movie that you look at and you go you know that's the closest thing they got to the real life yeah well a couple you know the uh this was the 1996 HBO movie movie called Gotti and it was armanda Sante and Anthony Quinn brilliantly done I mean armanda Sant played Gotti so well Anthony Quinn there was a scene in there that gave me the chills that Anthony Quinn did it so well and it was pretty accurate because they did it right according to the surveillance tapes and the and that they had on him so that's that's my number one as far as authenticity if you go to uh Donnie Brasco I thought that was uh Al Pacino's best role I knew Angel uh Lefty really well he played him so well uh you know then listen Casino was great you know was a good movie uh obviously Good Fellas um there's there's a couple of good ones out there and when you get scorsi and that crew together they can't make a bad movie I mean it terrific can you remember your first sort of realization of what this was when you were a child like being understanding of Mafia well you know Brian my dad uh was such a high-profile figure back in the late 50s and 60s he was kind of like the John Gotti of his day very high-profile always under investigation always a major Target of law enforcement so I grew up with that my dad was constantly being arrested charged with you know criminal activity he went to trial three times we had agents around us all the time surveilling us so even though my dad didn't discuss it in the house I mean he had so much media and everything I kind of knew what was going on even at a young age but you know the real eye openening thing that happened with me Joe Columbo who was the boss of the Columbo family my dad had gone to prison and we were at a uh an Italian-American civil rights League rally at Columbus Circle in New York and uh you know he had put this whole league together because he said Italians were being you know harassed by the FBI and it was that day uh I was up on a stage with him he had called me over to hand me some brochures that he wanted me to hand out about the league and I walked 12 steps away from him and that's when he got shot it was an attempted assassination he got shot he eventually died from the wounds he was in a coma from that point but that that made me realize hey this is the real thing it was the first time I had witnessed something like that so can you give us an idea of what the Columbo family was like and and and what kind of characters were in there and what the status of that family was in New York well you know I always say the the golden years of the mob in America of Coen or in America really from the uh the late 40s right through to the mid 80s so I was in that era because obviously my dad throughout the 60s I uh I really got involved in the Life in 1970 when my dad went to prison and I became a maid member in 1975 so I was in the midst of what I call the golden years and the Columbo there's five families in New York and the Columbo family is one of the smaller ones we were we had about5 made guys we had a lot of Associates but guys that actually took the oath and um I mean look it was a real deal I mean you know that's that's it was during a time in New York we had a lot of power and a lot of control we controlled all the unions we had a lot of political power and we had a lot of power on the street you know so I was in the midst of all of that and that was a time when you know Joe Columbo Kine perso who was my boss uh Fat Tony solo the boss of the geneves I mean Paul castalano John Gotti that was the era so I mean I you know I knew all of those guys and I think from what I read up you were about 17 when your dad got sentenced to 50 years in jail now even if we remove the mafia element of it that's a hell of a blow to a young man to probably lose what was probably his Hero at that age you just describe what that was like for you it was tough because my dad was he was 50 years old when he went in and he got a 50-year sentence to figure hey you're going to die in prison you know uh and it was a blow because my dad was my idol he was my hero growing up and to have that loss like that was was very very tough but you know and I say this Brian my dad obviously did a lot of bad things in that life so did I you know during my time but that particular crime that my dad did all that time for he did 40 years on the 5050 uh he was innocent of he was 100% framed I investigated that case thoroughly we spoke to every witness that testified against him they all recanted their testimony we gave him lied detective test proved they lied at the trial and the FBI was complicit in that with him so as a result that I had a real hatred for government because hey they framed my father took him away destroyed my family the whole bit so it was really a blow and you know prior to that my dad didn't want me involved in the life he wanted me to go to school be a professional be a doctor and it wasn't until that he went to prison that my life changed and I got out on the street basically to help him out cu without that he's going to die in jail so I mean it was a life-changing experience for me it was it was Bank Robbin that they framed him for is that right he was supposedly masterminded a nationwide string of bank robber he gave the order to the to the bank robbers and uh you know it's just a bad case we can never get it overturned could never get the conviction overturned did you ever want him to snitch like just to get him back did you have a wish that he would when you were young I I didn't understand that concept back then you know but no but you know what really what got me with him is my dad was out on parole five times and he kept getting violated for association with other criminals you're not allowed to do that when you're on Federal peole and like his third time I started to get upset with him I said dad our family's falling apart you got to get away from these guys you know you you can't make make it here in New York you're too high-profile a figure but you know that was his life and uh you know as a result he he stayed in it and just kept going back to jail I don't know if this is the same way for you but obviously in my life sometimes I feel like I've become my dad's dad like how did your you know relationship with him evolve over the course of that time as he's imprison aging and you're Now sort of rising the power outside of jail well yeah it was kind of maybe a little uncomfortable because you know I become a soldier in 1975 1980 I was elevated to position of Captain and he was a captain when he got out so we were both equal ranks at that point wow but he really couldn't do anything because of his parole situation and I was doing everything you know so it made me a little bit uncomfortable because I always looked up to my dad as being you know up there and then we're kind of equal in that life even though I gave him all the respect because you know he he deserved that you know he was kind of a you know a stalworth in that life but it changed a bit because you know and this is hard to say Brian but you know I always looked up to my dad as being this invincible guy and when he came home it wasn't the same you know I expected him like to come out and we're going to take over the family and all of that but it it didn't happen that way so I was a little disappointed I think I put a little too much pressure on him in that regard you know um you know there was a point in time you know I I can share this when our boss Kine persal he broke my father meaning he took my father's captaincy away so my father's a soldier and I'm a captain you know I'm higher in rank I was very upset about that I said Dad how can they do that to you you know you got 50 years you never opened your mouth you never said anything and it was very disappointing to me to the fact where I wanted to go to war with people I was that mad you know but he said no you know abide your time and they used it as an excuse they said you know you're always getting violated so we're going to take you out of everything so that you know you don't have to be part of you just stay there and let your son do everything but I took it as a real slap in the face he was smarter he said just let it go don't worry about it that's how this life is but it was very disappointing to me you were standing on his shoulders essentially to become the person you became so now to see the man who started it all be disrespected it must have yeah like invoked that emotional reaction in you and from what I understand part of the reason it could be wrong but part of the reason they wanted to make you earlier than what would normally happen is kind of as a node of respect to your old man who who did the right thing in their eyes and didn't rat on his friends and all of that so yeah to then take his captaincy away yeah it's a backhanded thing right it it was and yeah they gave him the courtesy CU you know when I got made there was a uh an expression that the books were closed from the 50s right into the mid-70s meaning they weren't bringing any new guys into the family the only way you could do that and this was all five families if somebody died you were able to replace them wow so now in 1975 when I got made there was a ton of guys that were waiting 20 years to become made and I got moved up to the front as a courtesy for my dad I mean I still had to prove myself you know two and a half years but they moved me up in front of a lot of guys so some guys were resentful of that but my dad deserved that respect cuz he needed me on the street I had a to get him out of prison he needed me there so he asked for that and they did it uh and then yeah you know later on to kind of be disrespectful in that regard because they could have said to him look you're still a captain just stay away from everything don't get violated again but to take that away from him was was tough I can only assume from their point of view that like if we do him this favor he's more likely to keep his mouth shut and like we're all in this together still of thing I mean look my father could have buried a lot of guys no question about it and he wouldn't you'd have to kill him for first he wouldn't have even thought of that he was he was the most standup guy in that life that you ever want to meet no doubt I can say how much pride that gives you when you talk about him in a lot of your interviews and I you know I've seen the the sit down with Samy uh gravano and he's challenging you and and I feel like a lot of where your self-worth comes from is like this guy Built Me And He you can't question that you know what I mean it's admirable that he was like that you know what I mean despite obviously being a criminal there was a certain code there that in the today's criminals that we've got all over London pulling knives on these innocent little kids out here they don't have that do you ever look at modern criminals with a sense of like disgust you know I do because I I just can't understand the mentality you know look I never glorify my former life you know because I always say it's a bad life because families get destroyed as a result of membership in that life my family was destroyed you know you know and I I tried to preserve my family when I say my family I mean mother father brother sister destroyed but my family I preserved them from that but you know when I look at these guys today I mean I I I just don't understand you know there's no we had a certain honor and a certain respect about us we took care of our communities our neighborhoods there was no crime in our neighborhood none whatsoever you know we took care of the people that's why even you know a lot of guys said that you know why was John Gotti so loved he was loved in his neighborhood like my father was like I were because we took care of people we didn't hurt people where we were you don't see that today you know I don't know how of these young kids now oh yeah in the United States I can't believe what's going on there I mean they're just wild animals I mean it's it's crazy really yeah I mean crime is is never great but like again not glorifying what your life was but equally it certainly deserved more respect than today's you know young criminals who are out here just stabbing people just to prove they can do it yeah I mean that and that that's happening a lot right now in the UK and London especially um and in terms of being M can you describe that process of what it really means and and what you do and who you're with and that sort of thing well when I was proposed my dad proposed me for membership you know in that life you can't go up to somebody say hey I'd like to join somebody has to propose you vouch for you say you had what it takes in my case was my dad so um after Joe Columbo was shot and seriously wounded a new boss took over his name was Tom Della and I sat with Tom after my dad sent word from prison and he said to me Mike um I got a message from your father you want to become a member of our life yes from now on 24 hours a day seven days a week you're on called to serve this family the Columbo family that means if your mother is sick and dying you're at her bedside we call you to service you leave your mother you come and serve us we're number one in your life before anything and everything when and if we feel you deserve this honor this privilege to become a member will let you know from that point on you're in a recruit period you got to do anything and everything you're told to do to prove yourself worthy and you know Brian I I hate to be offensive to anybody but I got to be honest you know when my dad was ready to propose me he said I got to ask you one question son I said what's that he said if you ever had to kill anybody could you do it and you know kind of a question you don't expect but I thought about it for a minute and I said under the right conditions Dad yeah can do it he said that's the right answer and that's all he needed to hear from me because he knew me you know obviously and um you know look the life is violent at times there's no way to get away from it you know if you're part of the life you're part of the violence we keep it within ourselves but that's the way it is and uh and then you had to obey orders you know there's a lot of discipline in that life you had a meeting at 8:00 you weren't there at 7:30 you were late you can never be late no excuse I don't care if there's accidents if there's an earthquake you got to be on time period you know go there the night before if you have to but uh you know Drive the boss to a meeting sit in the car 3 4 5 hours you know you leave to go to the bathroom or or get a newspaper he comes out you're not there you're in trouble I did that once I know a lot of stuff like that you know you're on call to do whatever you're told to do and you got to prove yourself worthy and if and when you do then you get the privilege uh of being made you know without admitting too much uh you were asked to do a lot of things and and there was there was guys um from what I understand in your story the guys you were made with were murdered as well all five of them yeah yeah wow were six of us the night I got made five of them were murdered that shocked me because in all the movies there's this idea of if you're a ma guy you can't be touched that is the theory behind it but obviously obviously doesn't always work that way no Brian you have certain rules and if you break the rules you know you could pay with your life you're told straight out don't ever violate another man's you know wife daughter sister mother that's death at that time and I know I get a lot of controversy about this you know we were not allowed to deal with drugs we were told straight out you deal with drugs you die and I knew people that made that mistake you know you become an informant you pay with your life you know so there's a lot of things like that you know so you know how you look at it and I don't I'm not justifying but hey we all took the same oath we all understand this is what we're not supposed to do and if we do it we're going to pay the consequences so you almost feel Justified well he broke the rules he knew better you know but again you keep it within you know a lot of people think that when you take the oath of omera that it's an oath to lie steal cheat kill it's not the O of Omer means silence you're never even supposed to admit that the life exists that's what you take obviously as a part of that life you know we didn't we didn't obey the law we didn't care about that you know we would do whatever we had to do but uh and and you know I have to say this you know for your audience murder was not a first action it was always a last resort you know and in our life was very serious only the boss can okay you know if something had to go down the boss would would give the final word on that and then whatever happened happened from that point but I think a lot of people get the impression especially from movies we just went around killing people every day like some of these young kids today not the truth at least not through my experience one thing that really hit me about your dad's story just before we move on from him was that your own brother testified against him and knowing the way you are about your dad I could only imagine that must have been quite heartbreaking it it was it was shocking quite honestly even though my brother had a severe drug problem uh but we never expected it to go to that level um yeah and I was I was at the trial when my brother was was testifying it was like is this really happening you know uh but you know Brian honestly too and my brother was in the WT Protection Program so like 10 years I didn't see him after that I had a 70th birthday two years ago and my wife invited him and cuz he was out of the program and I was like stunned when I seen him you know he showed up I didn't know it was a surprise for me but you know I got to be honest Brian my brother sat down with me and he he said I don't know if you understand the torture that we went through as a family and you know look I had a sister died of an overdose of drugs my younger sister 41 years old she was never mentally stable she passed away at 41 my mother dies 33 years without her husband and her life at the end was a mess and then my brothers did drugs testify it's destructive to the family so he started telling me some of the emotion that he felt as a kid growing up and some of the resentment he had from my dad and I I almost understood cuz it kind of opened my eyes for some reason I kind of survived all of that where my brothers and sisters didn't but hearing it from his perspective I said you know I never thought of things this way you know and the kid went through a lot he really did and uh it's heartbreaking it really is and now a word from our sponsors this podcast is brought to you by flexispot flexispot make the next generation of death so that you can have the best setup but also the most comfortable now the one I've got is the A7 Pro and the reason for this is that standing up is much better for you than sitting down all day hunched over while you're working and how does it work well it's very easy on the little keypad you can program up to four preet Heights at the touch of a button and this one goes from 63.5 CM all 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they've also got chairs and storage to complete your setup to make it perfect just for you so thanks to flexi spot but for now enjoy the video yeah you're quite a stoic person who probably I mean there's a reason you're still here to tell the tale right like you are made of tough stuff uh and I think I watched one interview where you mentioned uh you mentioned your mother there about how you thought that they might have based Tony Soprano's mother on the wiretaps of something that they had in your house on your mother which kind of made me laugh cuz Tony Soprano's mother was the greatest character in that show so I thought what must your mother have been like she must have been such a character um my mother was extremely in she was she was my father's match no doubt about it very independent um you know she she was rough to get along with MH rough to get along with and uh so there was always a lot of turbulence in the house Mom and Daddy it was it was very very tough but somehow I survived it I don't know and the rest of them didn't and it really affected them and I and I kind of understood you know and now my brother and I are close again and I get knocked from oh your brother was a rat you're this and that you know you and I said hey don't it's my family you know don't tell me what to do but I really understand in a way where he's I don't agree with it don't get me wrong you know I don't agree with what he did but I understand yeah forgiveness is a is a thing that I I mean getting older myself now I'm finding it's coming easier and easier whereas when I was younger I'd hold a grudge yes um and I think it's good for you in your old day years now to be able to like let things go A bit you know I found that holding a grudge and uh you know being resentful is is a burden to yourself MH you know if you can let it go and uh and accept things that happened in the past like you know a lot of guys on my on my social media platform oh you know you're friends with Sammy Grano and Samy and I we but buted heads I think you saw and that was real by the way it was real oh yeah but we kind of patched it up afterwards I said look Sammy whatever you did you know whatever I did we did that was our past and there's no sense in taking that you know at at this point in time in our lives and I kind of look at at that with everybody you know I mean why not why was Sami so sort of hostile towards you you know sami's a different character you know um and I got to like him a lot and I like his family his you know I interviewed his uh his daughter Karen was one of the best interviews ever she was so honest so I related to her feelings with her dad me with my and his son uh uh Gerard you know nice people so and I look at that you know you raised great kids you know as far as I'm concerned but you know he was hostile in in the beginning because he's the one that brought it out oh jumped ahead of everybody when you got made and guys were resentful I said hey what do you want from me I didn't make that decision they made that decision you know don't worry about it but you know we buted heads but then I don't know what was on his mind at that point I felt like watching that interview and I I'll give you my opinion see what you make of it he really the identity of him being like that bad the bad man you know the killer you know to then have to be hold a rat by so many people because of the way it ended for him and and listening to the story about him and how people were ratting on him so it was kind of r or be ratted on like really but I feel like that really bothers him and the fact that you also gave up some information MH but weren't giving up people right made him feel like oh but you're not better than me though and there was this in um what's that word uh he he felt a bit like oh I feel like uh what's the word maybe inferior in some way shape or form and he he had that like complex about well he doesn't make you any better cuz we both gave up information so therefore we're both as bad as each other and I felt like he was constantly trying to push you into that yeah I I agree with that I think that was part of it you know because look even though you did something like that you don't want to be known to be a bad guy and I understand that I totally do so I and and I got it afterwards you know um and I think you know a lot of the guys that were in that position that you know cooperated and went into the the program and and testified and things like that I think they don't feel good about it none of them do you know and whatever the circumstance whatever the reason was that pushed him into that you know I don't want to pass judgment on that but I think that was part of it but after we got past that you know and I said Sammy I'm not judging you you're not judging me whatever it it is what it is and then we we put it to rest it's F it's fascinating that these like a guy who's done the things he's done can now just be a YouTuber yeah like that's so bizarre to me all of us you know I mean whoever thought we'd be on YouTube I mean when I sit and think about it at times I said this it's crazy it really is okay so the thing that you are really well known for is being a great earner and if there's one thing I've noticed from all of this uh you know mafia movies it's if you're a good earner people are going to like you uh but you were around killer so like how did you you know they're probably jealous of you being in the good books with the boss giving him all that money how did you navigate that whole situation and how did you amass so much money well you know it's true because I was one of the younger guys too and you have resentment from you know just like everyday life you know the older guys they kind of have resentment for the younger guys you have to navigate that course in in that life because it could be you know things are more intense in that life you know and and maybe you lose a position in in real life in that life you could lose your life you know you got to be careful who you rub the wrong way um do you have to stay humble a lot like you do cuz if you're giving it Cockiness exactly these guys aren't going to like you at all exactly and you have to give difference to the older guys just because they've been there longer and that's it you know and then spread the wealth you know listen in that life Money Talks you know and uh you you kind of separate yourself in that life you have the racketeers which are the guys that bringing the money and then you have the gangsters that do a lot of the work you know and I always say this a gangster normally can't be a racketeer because they don't know how to use the life to earn you know but a racketeer has to be a gangster and a racketeer because if you're called upon to do something you got to do it and um I kind of separated myself as a guy that knew how to earn I mean I knew how to use that life to benefit me in business and went on to make a lot of money and when you do that you rise in the ranks you know my boss was very appreciative of that I made him a lot of money and uh but the other thing is people want to be around you when you're an earner so if you navigate that properly and let people earn the people that are supposed to be earning with you then you do okay you know but you also have to know listen there's there's always a point where even the older guys they can't push you because you're equal you're all equal you know you're told when you become a ma guy we're all equal everybody's the same so you only give difference to a certain point but at some point hey you know enough and you got to put people in their place and that happened to me quite a bit but um you know fortunately I was table I I can say this Brian I didn't make a lot of enemies if I had enemies it was just resentment because of who I was and I was younger but I didn't make enemies I didn't go out there to make enemies you know I always I always live by this the best way to uh defeat your enemies is to make them your friends and I I have that same thing now you know a lot of guys take knocks at me on YouTube and I never respond to them and the guys that were knocking me who I never even met I didn't even know who they were you know but you that's how people start on their platform now they're all coming to me and we're friends because I said to them if you'd ask me maybe to come on your show or do this I would have came you didn't have to start knocking me you know and all of that we can help each other we're not competing Here YouTube yeah YouTube is a big platform there's room for everybody you know but I understand I understand I don't hold it against anybody but you know now we're all friends it's a it's a better way to be yeah you had you kind of had to be a politician back then as well like to know how to play everyone and I I guess that old saying is keep your friends close keep your enemies closer absolutely and another saying that I've come up with lately uh which is not everyone um something along the lines of some people who are your friends are only your friends cuz they haven't got the balls to be your enemy absolutely and and you know the older I get the more I realize that and and from from what I researched one of your biggest money makers was the gasoline business so can you kind of break down how you manag to use uh your brains to to think of getting all lot money out with it well you know it was a guy that came to me that was in the gas business had a small operation and he had the germ of an idea of taking defrauding the government out of tax on every gallon of gasoline and he came to me with this idea and we were able to expand it I was able to help him and expand it into a very major operation when I say major we had uh we ran it for about 8 years and I had over 300 uh about 350 guest stations 325 350 I either owned or operated we leased so we were supplying all of them and then I had 18 companies that were licensed to collect the tax on every gallon of gasoline and then we devised a way to collect it and not pay it I mean the scheme was simple the operation was complex because we had to hold the government off from coming down on us you know and I would get about a year out of every license before the government would come down on us and then we would just destroy that and move on to the next company so we just kept doing it it was a daisy chain and they couldn't figure it out so to give you an idea of the numbers at the height of my operation we were selling a half a billion gallons of gas a month taking down 20 30 40 cents a gallon whatever the mark whatever deal we made at the time so we were bringing in six s810 million a week you know on average so it was it was I I would say this and I think it's hard to dispute that was probably the biggest money-making deal since the days of prohibition other than drugs but we weren't big in the drug business the mafia in Italy big drug dealers we weren't big in the United States so this was probably the biggest operation since prohibition yeah apparently you were second only Al Capone in terms of money generated well that's what the media said I don't I don't want to say yes to that but who knows it's a pretty cool uh title to have and and the drug thing is quite interesting because in all the movies it they they reiterate that as well like you know you stay away from drugs because drugs are the kind of sentences that will make people break and have you ever tried drugs I've never even smoked a joint my life I'm going to be really honest I took one uh I was like 20 years old I was with some girl and she gave me a half of a qualude oh okay a half and I said after that I'm never Wolf of Wall Street I'm never again that was the end of that but uh I hate anything to do with drugs Brian because I saw how destructive was in my own family so never smoked a joint never I mean a prescription if I'm giving one fortunately I'm pretty healthy so I don't have to but but no won't ever touch it cuz you're friends with Mike Tyson and he has his own marijuana PL I'm thinking maybe uh Big Mike will give you a taste well he tried I did his hot boxing thing and he's smoking he says I said hey I'm going to be the first guy that refuses to join so don't give me any I love it yeah but you got wh wine uh companies right I'm in a wine business yeah Francis wine I'm a I'm a big F a wine so hopefully I'll get some of that well you're going to give me your address well well actually I got some bottles coming over here so I'll make sure you get one sure amazing and and going back to this um you know this right in the middle of your life that you were in in the story you were talking about murder's not being as common as what people think right um in terms of the brutality you know and how violent it could be um one guy who's sort of been you know waxing about how you know in-depth and how violent his murd with the ican and you've kind of talked a little bit about him um are you now sort of settled on it was mainly with him or do you think he was the real deal it it was BS with respect to in the movie they had him like a very prominent figure with Roy Deo and all of that that wasn't true absolutely not true I mean I knew Roy fairly well um so they they really you know overplay in in the movie but look I have to tell you this you know I'll men Roy Deo and I don't like talking about people but he's gone now he was a different character I mean Ro Roy was a a serial killer I mean there's no other way to describe it you know and I I like to tell people this the mafia did not make Roy who he was he would have been the same way without our life I mean actually we you know we we made it easier for him because he had you know men a group of people around him but you know Brian I don't know anybody of that caliber that was that brutal that lasted that life you don't last because people say who wants to mess with this guy you know let's get rid of him everybody I knew that was murder first never lasted in that life can you give an example of how brutal he was to people who don't understand the the levels oh gosh well he had a you know I mean they and again the media always overplays this the media said my dad was responsible for 40 murders but never named one you know so they who knows but Roy they said over 200 murders in that life and this was highly publicized but he did have a a method called The Gemini method he had a club in uh in in the city and he would bring guys in there and actually murder them chop up their bodies and and dispose of them and that was a fact I mean that happened as a matter of fact one of the guys responsible for that is getting out of prison fairly soon you know that it was part of Roy hopefully he's he's changed his life and calm down a bit but uh it was pretty he was a brutal guy no question about it of all the guys you met in in your own family and your like close um work in relationships maybe was there one that stuck out to you as the one of the scariest guys you know the only guy that I ever had to be concerned about and that was scary to me was my boss Kine perso he was a real he was a real deal an oldtime tough guy no question about it he was a street Warrior and I had to watch myself with him because he had the power of life and death over me he was a guy did you say he was nicknamed a snake or something call they called him the snake yeah that was the reputation that he had I got along great with that's a worri and nickname in that line I mean I got along great with him you know we like until until I walked away then he was very upset with me but he was already doing a 100 years in prison at that point but um you know people say well you afraid of Roy Deo I had no reason to be afraid of Roy Deo you know look I have to say this Brian we were all capable of putting a gun in our hands and doing what we had to do so I didn't have to worry about anybody yeah except my boss if I would to step out of line so I didn't worry about anybody else in that regard but I had you know I was very mindful of doing the right thing so that I didn't put myself in trouble and guys in the mafia are always portrayed as having multiple women you know the gumar thing and that like on The Sopranos the the waight I'll be greeting him as if he hasn't seen him in a week when he seen him last night yeah is is that the way it was with multiple women or it is part of the life I'm not going to I'm not going to you know disavow that but it's not as as out there as people make you know as you see in the movies and the media it wasn't that guys didn't respect their wives I mean they did but you know it's a lifestyle where you're out six nights I was in a club six nights a week so you know who's in there and then of course you know women are attracted to us I have to say you know whether it's the money the power the bad boy image or who knows you know so you have women around all the time so if you put yourself in the Lions then so to speak you know it's part of that life I heard you telling a story about a gay guy in the mafia and I wondered if that was something that uh was you know happened every now and then or if it would be exposed or death really oh yeah no absolutely frowned upon you you'd be in a lot of trouble wow you'd get killed over that oh yeah wow without a doubt yeah you can't I mean you better not expose that wow yeah instant I mean cuz we're in such a different world right now right and I think even for people who watched all these movies even just to hear that is quite shocking you know um no it was I mean it was did you ever hear of that happening to a gay guy no no well not as part of our life no now you know the ironic thing is that you know back in the ' 70s a lot of guys were involved with gay bars mhm you know cuz we wouldn't let them operate unless they were paying us off you know so I mean we were involved with gay bars but you couldn't be in that lifestyle yeah no could wow did you ever have a friend who just disappeared one day like and no one ever you won't be seeing here anymore like that sort of thing that you see in the movies like where a guy you've known for 10 years just gone and there's no explanation no questions we were one of the Waring families there was three wars in the Columbo family during my lifetime wow that's a lot you didn't see that in the other families for some reason I don't know why but um yeah there were there were many guys that I knew one day were gone the next you know one of the most horrible things um there was a lot of things that you witness in that life but I had a guy around me he was actually around my dad first his big Tony his name was real tough guy standup Soldier guy he comes to me one day my dad was away so he was under me he was one of my guys and he said to me I'm in a lot of trouble I said what happened he says I got involved in a little drug deal and the boss's son was with me we sold to an undercover agent and I said I got upset I said how could you do that you know we went through that and I said all right don't worry about it I'll straighten it out you've been a guy for a long time you're very well respected he said no they're GNA blame it all on me he said the boss's son is GNA skate on this and they're gonna blame it all on me don't worry about it this and that and that right I get on a plane I had a plane at that time and I head down to Florida I get to Florida and I get a call from another one of my guys she says Mike and I got to believe this I said what he said Tony went into a phone booth and blew his brains out and the reason for that you know one of the horrors of that life you make a mistake your best friend walks you into a room you don't walk out again and he had said I'm not going to let that happen to me I'm not going to walk into that room he was so scared that he had violated that that he took his own life went into a phone booth cuz I knew his wife and and he he called her up and he said I love you I love the kids and she didn't understand what he was doing and boom I mean that's the kind of fear that that life could put into you and he was an old-timer so he he understood so that was a shock to me it was like wow you know how could you do this you know but even though he knew that I would go to bed for him he was even well cuz look you're told straight out you know your best friend is going to walk you into that room so even though I was trying to assure him he said Mike I know the life too well you know what I mean yeah so so much like Good Fellas that in regards to the the scene where like Henry and um when Joe pesy walks into the room remember and he thought he was being made and boom and uh and that's a reality of that life but but even even for example when Hen Henry Hill is talking to Dao's character and they having dinner and he's like he's he's narrating over going yeah I know he's terrified and he's he's he's plotting he's telling me everything's going to be okay it's not going to be okay he's the one who wants to kill me exact and that's kind of must have been how your guy felt but like in terms of you hearing that news that's the sort of thing that plays on the mind for days maybe weeks months afterwards how was that for you knowing that you had that conversation with him and even though you reassured him it didn't matter like well it it was shocking to the point where I had my own experience that way you know Brian when what happened was there was an article and I I'll relate it this way I mean that was devastating to me because I knew him since I was a kid I used to when I was a kid I called him Uncle Tony he was that close to me in my family my father was like one of his right-hand guys so it was shocking but um and I'm saying man you know he didn't trust me and I understood that but you know know when I was making a lot of money there was an article that came out I think it was the Long Island press that said that I was becoming powerful enough to break away from the columbos and start my own family no truth to it it was like a fictional story had no truth whatsoever but it starts to get into people's heads and like I said we were a Waring family so my boss started to get a little I got a big crew I got the Russians involved with me my dad still had a lot of juice I'm making tons of money making friends with other family so you're a threat yeah so it's like I'm perceived that way even though I wasn't right so I get a call one day my dad's on parole Mike I got to see you so I go see him boss wants to see us tonight I said okay what time you want me to pick you up right because he was uh on parole I used to drive him well they want you to come in first they want me to come in second I'm not going to go through the whole thing I didn't want to do that because I said that why they're going to separate us let's go together you know no no no no no they we got an order we got to do it that way long story short I argued with him a little bit but then gave in I drive into Brooklyn and to meet with another guy who I knew my whole life Jimmy and uh I had to park my car I got with him cuz the boss was on Parole so we had to make sure we didn't have a TA right nobody was following us we get to this house in Brooklyn where the meeting was going to take place and I get out of the car Jimmy walks behind me there was a guy sitting in the back who I kind of recognized but didn't know him well and he walks behind me and I'm saying this isn't right something's not right here I don't like this setup I'll be honest with you br I got scared I said man they walking me into this room I said that stupid article I heard they they went and tried to talk to some of my guys and right away I'm thinking I'm in trouble and uh we go down a steps and it was probably a 30 yard walk from the car to the basement I almost when that door opened I almost fainted I I said I know the setup they're going to gu boom I'm going to get it right in the side of the head right um but I can tell you it it made a difference because it was set up that way to scare me there's no question about it and that meeting I never I mean obviously I'm here it worked out okay but it stayed in my head and I said man I'm making all of this money and I'm being put on the spot I'm bringing money into the family I says I can't trust anybody here and my father father didn't do the right thing that night my father was in there before me and he kind of threw me under the bus hey if my son is stealing money I don't know anything about it he does everything I don't do anything I'm on parole he took the high road I found this out and I was like wow you know and that I didn't say anything for two years I didn't say you don't in that life you don't speak at a turn you don't discuss things with anybody you keep your mouth shut your feelings inside but that had a B major impact on my decision to walk away that must have broke your heart to a degree it did break my heart because I said to myself man if this life can separate Father and Son cuz my dad and I were tight I said what do we really have here you know it was it made a a big impact on me it's I mean look I always relate things back to the movies whenever I'm hearing your stories because that's kind of like a Fredo moment of like like we were supposed to be tight and now you're you're playing both sides like I thought you know I mean and um and for someone you've idolized your whole life who you have so much respect for to do something not honorable towards you it's heavy that like it it really hurt it really hurt and you know when I was I'll never forget Brian when I I when I talk about this I it was a summer night in August I could practically smell the flowers that's how intense my feelings were exactly and people said to me why didn't you cut and run and I I said well it wasn't heroic it was kind of robotic I said I was so much a part of that life I said if this is it this is it I almost gave in to my death MH how crazy is that when I think about it you know but you get so programmed you get so part of it that it's part of who you are and you face it that way sort of brainwashed almost like the Army cuz you kind of are soldiers a lot of you guys and that's of the mentality is like you you know soldiers will run to their death cuz it's been what they've been told to do from day one exactly yeah but you know what Brian it helped me later on because when I walked away from that life I knew I was going to have some trouble you know people weren't going to just let me go uh but I already knew I said well I faced death once if I got to face it again I'll do it for the right reason it's almost like it helped me later on cuz I didn't have that fear I mean ironically what it was supposed to do it did the opposite it was supposed to give them control but it actually made you more Fearless because you were like well if you're going to take me I'm I'm not going to I'm not going to go quietly next time it's going to be a lot different and I can only assume the am the sheer volume of cash you were bringing through the door could have been one of the main reasons they they gave you the warning and not the final shot that night yeah no question about that and you know I we sat down you know what happened we were at the meeting and they're questioning me I started getting mad I'm saying man I'm bringing all this money in and now I'm being put on a spot because of some stupid article that was written in a paper I said when they write articles about everybody else it's false now they writing something about me it's true I said I don't know this there's nonsense their real insecurities were getting triggered it wasn't yeah yeah so I wonder if you getting angry helped your case a bit there cuz well you know you can't get angry with the boss so I I I caught myself I said wait a minute I'm walking out of here let me just you know and then when it was over you know hey have a glass of wine and hugging and everything is good you know no yeah how we ready kill you half now exactly this is crazy exactly and I got a little nervous cuz my dad wasn't in there when I went he had already gone he went in first and I'm saying where's my father oh he was here he he's left now I'm saying to myself did he really leave am I going to get I mean all these emotions am I going to get killed here who's standing behind me all this stuff is going through my head and I might have been visibly showing him that I was nervous tried not to tried to keep my composure but you know it is what it is but then like I said it started to turn to that you put me on a spot here are you kidding me you know and then you seem like an angry guy either so like if there's one thing that comes off with a lot of even the videos he did with Sami and you're very calm composed considered and I I always think that that's why you're one of the people who like lasted the way you did but in that moment for you to say I I was losing it shows the intensity of the situation yeah it it was very I mean look I remember every little detail about about that night it's it's amazing it's probably one of the most standout things in my life the role of consiliary is something we've uh seen a lot in these movies and I I wondered if you could educate us on the the power of one and how they are selected the conso are is totally the selection of the boss you know that's his advisor so so to speak and his real role he's supposed to be an intermediary between the soldiers the men and the boss cuz if you have a problem with the boss or something you can't go directly to the boss you're not allowed to do that if you're a captain you can but if you're a soldier you can't so you go to the consiliary who's the consiliary allegedly for the family the problem is if you go to the consiliary with a complaint about the boss you're probably not going to last right because he's the boss's handpick guy so you you don't do that but you know it's good to have a consiliary that will disagree with you and not just yes you to death because you're supposed to run things by him in the family it's a powerful position don't get me wrong but you know I've noticed in that life you know that the consiliary and the boss are always it's almost like one person you know they they have the same thought pattern the same everything so you know with me I just stay in good graces with everybody that's how I tried to do it I suppose the the best idea is to pick someone who will um contain your impulses and try and help you lead in a more calm way like rather rather and good thing is the consiliary normally um deals with the other families also so you have to have a guy that's been around that knows how to deal with people that's that's kind of well resp obviously well respected so uh every consiliary that I knew they were all Old-Timers so when you get arrested and you are on trial uh in your position I assume the the guys and the family are worried that you're going to say the information to the cops um did did at any point did you say anything looking back at it that you regretted to the cops when they were interrogating you no well during my arrests you know and I had so many of them but um I don't think anybody was ever worried when I was on trial five times uh because at that point you know there was no reason for anybody to worry about anything you know the controversy with me afterwards after I walked away then everybody was worried okay cuz you're going to cooperate what's uh what's really going on and the feds added to that because they put it out there you know they put my name on a witness list of trials that were going on and so people thought I was coming in to cooperate but I never showed up because I wasn't doing it that's what the feds were doing and look I spoke to the to law enforcement but I didn't give them any information that could put people in prison you know I knew what I could do and what I couldn't do and mainly I put a lot of stuff on myself you know so look Brian I was never willing to go into the Witness Protection Program I was never willing to put people in jail that was something I wouldn't do I would never cross that line but I needed to show the government that I was really out because I wanted them to leave me alone basically I was so high-profile I arrested 18 times three racketeering cases two Federal one state you know leave me alone I had enough I'm walking away from the life yeah you want yeah this is what I did and this and that and that yeah there is a cause on oer and all of that but that was my limit and just just so they leave me alone and then when they put my name on the witness list everybody was nervous including my father but I kept sending my father message Dad I'm not hurting anybody don't listen to these people I do 5 years in prison I get out on parole for 13 months I got a lot of trouble right both both sides who's looking to kill me who's looking to put me in a program it was a mess 13 months a mess I violate my parole they put me back in prison so now everybody's saying why would they put this guy back in prison if he was going to hurt anybody the in the discovery they see my name but then I never show up so that's when they realized okay he's not hurting anybody you know so things started to calm down but this was a long period of time you know you know look uh you you got to do what you got to do if you want to preserve your family I get it but to me there was a limitation I wasn't willing to put anybody in jail I and I told the FED that I said I don't care what you say I said don't ever asked me about my father not one word we'll ever discuss about him about anything and they they understood that I said just you know I'm not doing it period they must have had much on you in order to put stress on you to try and pressurize you to give people up or stuff like that they oh yeah they you know they're tactic back then we we're indicting you for murder we're doing it I mean they hit me with everything I mean when I was in prison they put me on diesel therapy Shi me to all different prisons around the country picked me up in the middle of the night put you on a plane you end up someplace you don't even know where you're going can't visit they don't tell your family security reasons then they had me in lockdown for 29 months and 7 Days in solitary you did 29 months solitary 29 months and 7 29 months and 7 days you remember every day they had me in solitary you know claiming it was for my own protection because I walked away from the life but they were giving me the business and during that time you want to get out of here you know just talk to us leave me alone you know so they're making it as hard hard as possible they break you absolutely and you know look there was a recent video and you know the guy that prosecuted me said you know Michael could have put everybody away he was with Fat Tony and he was with pero and he the guy said it the prosecutor right on there but I wasn't willing to do that so do you think you've got the credit for that that you probably should have had though cuz I see the way like when I was watching the way Samy was talking to you like it wasn't like that like when I hear 29 months solitary confinement and you didn't break that deserves like respect that like and I'm not saying you don't get respect but those people should owe you a level of gratitude for not doing that well I think afterwards they did you know you know what happened there was a when I was getting out of prison finally my second stint there was a there was a guy that was trying to implicate me in a bunch of murders he was an informant right turns out they threw him out of the witness protection program for lying but the the fedit came to me at the time and they said listen this guy's imp in you and all of these deals I said well he's lying you know and this was before they found out that he was lying I said the guy's a liar but they said to me look you're either going to cooperate with us because he's implicated other guys or we're going to indict you for what this guy is saying I said take your best shot I told him right and I went back to my father at the time and I said Dad I said if I cooperate with this guy I said everybody's going to get hurt I'm not going to do it tell them to leave me Al alone and he told him that you know he told my boss and everything leave Michael my son is not hurting anybody and that went a long way and then what happens the guy that said all of this they threw him out of the program for lying he was a bad liar he lied about so many things so you know fortunately that went and nobody got hurt as a result of what this guy was saying but there was so many instances that happened Brian that I when I think about it you know how fortunate I am that things just fell into place for me I mean it was a lot of work on my part too but I had to you know be very fortunate that the way things broke you know honestly you've navigated things incredibly well in in one of the most stressful situations but to to put solitary confinement into the mix yeah can you describe you know what that does to the mind for that many months on end well let me tell you this I I I am dead set against solitary for young people MH it's mental torture it's it's hard it's very very hard I saw a lot of bad things happen guys that couldn't handle it after a period of time and there it was tough for me it was a faith issue I mean that's when you know I I really got into my Bible it's uh it's when I was really in a search for the truth and what motivated me is that fedon initially said you're never get out of here alive you're going to spend the rest of your life in solitary so now I'm thinking of Eternity what's real you know my wife was a Christian my mother-in-law is a Christian so I doing my search and I had my wife send me in a whole bunch of books about different faiths and that's what that's what really sustained me that and my strong determination and desire to get out and be with my wife and my children you know my kids and so I didn't let it get to me it was tough don't get me wrong I had some very bad days in there but um you know some reason I was able to navigate it but it's it's hard it it really is it's hard it you know I've always I've always was kind of assumed because it is a bit cliche my dad was in prison a lot of my life and it's kind of like the the thing that happens is men go to prison and it seems like from the outside looking in they start panicking that you know they're going to meet their makeer sooner or later and they better start apologizing for what they've been up to while they've been here and maybe they're just trying to get into the Lord's good graces before they meet him um but do you think that there was it felt like there was more to it for you when you were going through such a literal dark and and reading the Bible do you think that that made you grow as a person yeah no question no question I started to look at things differently my mentality remember mob mentality all the way I started to see things differently you know one of the books in the Bible that was so attractive to me was the Book of Proverbs because it was such a Wise book you could you could take God out of the equation for a minute and just listen to the wisdom of Solomon brilliant brilliant and I started to see things differently and it really did change my mentality and my heart to a to a degree and prepared me for what was you know a new life you know Fish Out of Water I'm coming out of Brooklyn and the whole mob thing going into La whole different atmosphere and now trying to live life legitimately in the right way and take care of my family so it was a good preparation for that um and it really I started to see things a lot differently really did it obviously the you know the is all about essentially what you should do and how you should live your life did it make you feel more guilty than you'd felt previously about the things you'd done to people um it it it made me confront myself you know there was one verse if you notice I have it on my arm and it says uh it's Proverbs 16:7 when a man's ways are pleasing to the Lord even his enemies are at peace with him so it's one of the first verses that I read that really got to me because it was the first night that they threw me in a hole and they told me you're never getting out of here this is it you'll never see your wife and children again and it was the first time that I was scared I said I I have no control I'm a controlled guy by Nature yep no control I lost it they beat me and when I read that verse I said man I've got nothing but enemies on both sides UPS say me the people on the street I said man I'm going to lose my wife and kids I'm done and you know I'll tell you how serious was I used to demean people that were suicidal I said you're weak how do you not face up to you're weak that night I wasn't suicidal but I kind of understood I wanted to just lay my head on that c and not wake up because I said I'm going to do this to my family I visited my father 25 years my mother practically lost on mind I said I'm going to torture this woman I don't know if she going to leave me my wife I said just take me away I wanted to lay down and not wake up it was that serious so when I read that verse it was almost like man's ways of pleasing to the Lord I looked back I said who are you kidding I said you got to confront what you've done in your life and I really started to think about everything what I had done during my time in that life and I said this is bad and yeah I had regrets there's no question and so I didn't you know in in the life you justify it hey we all took the O right everyone does this that's why I'm laughing I've done it justify it but you know what you could say no also yeah you know okay you may face consequences but that's a choice you made I made the choice to go along with it so yeah I started to confront my own demons so to speak during that time it's funny should say that cuz in the past couple of years I've definitely tried to be like I've tried to make those changes of of the not living the way I used to and and being that person that I used to not that I was a really bad guy but I'd make selfish decisions a lot of the time and I found it a really painful process in in looking at everything and trying to do the right thing cuz sometimes people don't always want you to do the right thing you know what I mean and it can be that you know an emotional situation to be in for sure oh you know what Brian I found this you know it's it's a message that I give to these young Bang Gang Bangers I tell them listen you are who you hang out with that's it in life there's two things you are who you hang out with and your path in life is going to be dictated by who you're account accountable to you know accountability is everything when I was on the street I hung out with all criminals I was a criminal I was accountable to my boss I was accountable to my oath when I came out I have to credit my wife with this because she's an incredibly she's an honest person she's very very committed to her faith and the influence that she had on me number one I didn't want to disappoint her and number two she wouldn't stand for me doing anything wrong so she she helped me change my mentality to a great degree and then over a period of time when you're around somebody that's so consistent it really helps you and she she was a major force in my life I was ready for her you know I had gotten a lot of stuff out of my system and fortunately I met the right woman to keep me in the right place yeah everything you're saying is very applicable to my own life in the last few years of like clearing out people who shouldn't be around you you know like uh a close person to me calls it like cutting the Dead Leaves off the tree to let it grow better and and like you say the people around you you know can be a huge difference but also the woman in your life can make you or break you without a doubt and this this that's one thing I've talked to a lot of cuz I see young YouTube guys getting a lot of money and I'm like pick the woman carefully 100% And I'm not just talking about the ones who give you a good time and all that like think about this Lads that's one one of the things that I think young men they don't understand the level of importance until it's too late 100% yeah you know and to bring that up I don't I don't know what you're feeling do you know Andrew Tate I do I do I've had a bit of a running with him I I don't I understand that some things he says are touching a nerve with the young men of today and I definitely get why cuz they feel directionless but I hear the point of young men they need guidance right now AB I think that that's uh it's something that they're crying out for now because there are no good male role models out there man the family unit's been destroyed exactly you know and to me the root of all the problems that we're having is the destruction of the family there's no question you how many guys you might have experienced the same young men I met in prison that were in prison you could write the same script for every one of them broken home no Father Figure no Mentor that's it bottom line they're like little wild animals they gravitate to the street they get to the local gang banger drug dealer before you know what they're in jail and and it's also why relationships are breaking down consistently because young women aren't viewing they're not being raised anymore young women to view how a man and a woman are supposed to talk to each other so for me personally when I started dating uh you know women I didn't sort of understand until now why so many women don't know how to communicate with men and it's because they've never watched their mother and father do that in a functional way they don't say it so they don't have a clue so they women are now talking to men men themselves and they're wondering why it's like a volatile relationship all the time and you see these toxic relationships is because no like the old ways of communicating and the specific gender roles in my opinion anyway of a man being a man and a woman being a woman ironically worked absolutely and and now we've gotten so far away from that it's almost like we've got no chance of having like thousands of successful relationships the way it used to be well it's funny that you say that here in the UK and it's exactly the same in the United States and you know I do agree with Andrew on on a lot of things I mean men being men the problem is that you know people view that if man is a man and acting like he should that it's demeaning to women and it's not in any way you know it's actually a benefit to women and you want a strong woman nobody's saying we we don't I need a strong woman my wife is is the best balance for me in life that I could imagine because she's strong she's independent she also knows her role mhm and I know my role and it's different but we and the young fit perfectly exactly exactly and and this is what young men and young women have to understand you know be who you are as as what you are you're a woman I'm a man and we compliment Each Other Well I think femininity is the most underappreciated quality in the modern era like so many women now are giving up like the femininity and the way they're portraying the themselves the way they're talking the way they're acting all over their Instagram stuff like that like the the softer and more gentle you can be towards a man they'll have them wrap around their little finger and I'm like you've literally got the superpower right there in your hand you don't even know how to use it because he never been shown but like if you communicate with a man is soft gentle feminine way we're put you in your hands ladies absolutely it's mental like you aren't even cuz they think by like stamping their feet being aggressive being masculine will get them their way because it's probably worked in their household when they were younger it's like but when you try do that at 25 and upwards with a grown man that's why your relationship is breaking down 100% um you know there's a lot of um backlash now in you you United States with feminists who finally saying you know the women that that bought into this they said we bought into a big lie absolutely cuz now we're 38 39 40 years old we were told we never needed a companion we didn't need men in our life and now we can't find one well the C AR very good at cuddling like when they die um but like um um and another thing is like for me feminism I understand why women felt the compelled to want more power and yes they weren't treated the way they should have been but it's just been such an overcorrection now and um and ironically it's like well well done you're all taxpayers like the rest of us like you've given up your role in the home where and like now a lot of these women are wanting to buy back in and go oh actually I want to Pro protect a provider who earns all the money and I can just stay with the kids cuz that's actually what I want to do but they're 40 years old and it's too late exactly and it's happening all over exactly but you know my wife a couple of things I mean I don't let her put gas in the car I feel that's my job my girl I didn't I would never I do that I put gas in the car you know I I do I do everything for her not that she's not very capable of doing it on her own and she'll do it on her own she does respect in it yeah she doesn't demand me to do it but I hold her in that high esteem she deserves that as far as I'm concerned ER hey look in my case I'm gone 8 years my wife Stu stood by me you know totally committed took care of the kids raised them properly went through hell with me would you know contract on my life all the stuff she she had to go through so she's earned every bit of that and more you know so but she's capable of doing it on her own it's not like I'm demeaning her like but some women would look at that as oh you know you think I can't do that on my own well of course you can but if we're if we want to go out of our way and do that for you and it makes us feel good and it treats you a certain way why are you mad about that some some some some women I see interviews and look they go viral because they're they're ridiculous sometimes so they they're meant to be triggering but I see someone who want it kind of both ways they want the independence but they also want the guy who's going to do like everything and I don't know I I'm really glad that I am got to pick a wife out of the future Generations God bless these young men out here if they watching um but yeah I I completely see where you're coming from M so we were talking about the time you were in jail and obviously you mentioned your father's time in jail and he being framed how common do you think it was for people in your business to be framed by the police back in the day normally an investigation starts a crime is committed and then law enforcement investigates the crime right well with us guys they don't know what the crime is they're investigating the guys waiting to see what crime has committed you know so um it's like reverse engineering it they must have done something they must have done let's figure out what it is so they surveil us they watch us they talk to people they try to find out he's got to be involved in something we think we know what it is and so it gives them leeway to you know what I mean to exaggerate to a point where it's fra and my dad's out andout frame very simple these bank robbers really robbed all the banks they just created one meeting and said my dad was at that meeting and ordered them to do it that was it wow one meeting he ordered them to do it but the banks at robberies actually took place and and what happened is the FBI put the my dad's name in their thinking they knew my father they knew of my father because of of his reputation and so it was easy to set it up and the jury bought it you know the jury bought it but the thing is in the federal system you don't need any corroboration you can be you can go to jail on the basis of one person you know telling a story about you if the jury buys it they buy it normally they'll want to present a little bit more than that you know but uh it's a tough system and you you've been put on the spot quite a few times about oh have you killed people d d and I seen Samy sort of you know putting it on you a bit about well what did you do and you were like I can't say um but I've got a hypothetical question that sort of brooches it cuz I was thinking about this um knowing that you can't say anything like to that level but let's just say hypothetically if you had have taken another man's life in the in in the life you were in the character you have and the person you are now someone who is religious and really believes and doing the right thing it seems let's just say that you're on your deathbed one day do you think that if you had have done that that you are the type of person who would say that on your deathbed or do you think that you would never speak of it well let's put it this way I uh I made you know I'm Christian and I made my peace with God and fortunately as a Christian you don't have to make your peace with anybody else um but you know I'm I'm going to say I had a sit down with Jordan Peterson okay great man brilliant guy I've had him on the show and he said to me my I said look Jordan you know there was certain things I did in that life that I was very uncomfortable with uh I did them anyway and he said well how'd you do that and I said well quite honestly I kind of stepped outside of my myself and did what I had to do and then came back into myself and and I think that's how I approached it hey I've got an order this has got to be done boom but then Jordan said to me well is the real person the person that steps out of itself or the person that steep back and I said whoa I said I'd like to think it was the person that I stepped back into because I don't have those same thoughts now look am I capable of doing I'm a made member of that life of course you're capable um but I'm not I'm not at Liberty to talk about anything I you know to me to me it's offensive to to people to talk about there's other guys that brag about it I don't understand how they do that you know and my father taught me something once he said to me this and and it stuck with me and it it might be one of the reasons why I didn't have certain trouble in my life he said to me Mike if you and I were out and we rob robbed a store 15 seconds after we robbed that store if you say to me dad that was a good deal we did I he would say to me what are you talking about he said why would you ever bring it up again why would you put yourself in trouble or expose yourself he said you never ever have to talk about something that you did done finished when it's illegal activity so I that's always been in my head you know I also said something to Jordan This is interesting he said Michael how do you feel about lying and I said well my dad again put something in my head I would never lie to hurt somebody I might lie to help somebody and he looked at me he said well lying is lying I said I know but I'm lying to help somebody you know for instance you know my son you know got himself in trouble the cops came to me did your son do this I'd say no I want to help my son he's my blood he's this and that and he had an issue with that and it started to make me think you know Michael you can't justify lying lying is lying is lying but I don't agree with that I'm going to be honest with you if I had to help somebody somebody in my family I I may lie to help them there also White Lies which are seem to be less hurtful to people yeah yeah but to lie to hurt somebody and lie to put somebody in trouble no that to me is very offensive and it's it's cowardly I wouldn't do that and keeping your mouth shut even to regular people say for example if I'm talking to a young YouTuber and they're starting to get a lot of money my advice would be keep your mouth shut because people are envious and envious people found envious people will stab you in the back the first chance they get and that's on on everyday level like and you you know this is the world of YouTube crisis um so um apologies I shouldn't say that in front of a religious man like yourself that's okay I get it no but um but you know what psychologically you're talking about what Jordan Peterson said and he has an interesting question because you've lived a life with people around you who were who were able to kill and kill many people the average person the average people how able to do that do you think most people would be if they were in the situation where no one finds out and you're put on the spot you got to do this or else this like where do you rank average people in that sense I think it would be hard for some but I think most could do it you know I I'm going to say something that's kind of controversial and and and I hope people don't get me wrong you know but you take a young man 18 years old you put him in the military he's trained to fight and kill mhm you know and the way I look at it is murder is murder if you have the ability if it's in you to kill somebody it's still murder it might be justified don't get me wrong because you're fighting for your country you're defending people I get it and I'm not comparing that to murder in the mob because they're the different reasons but you're still capable of doing that you know what I mean you're committing a murder whatever the circumstances are so I guess an answer to your question I think I think a lot of people are capable of doing that if they were put in a situation and yeah like this is I got to do this and nobody's going to know about it cuz some of the things you hear I don't know how it is here but I read things in the papers every day I cannot believe some of the things that are happening I mean women killing their husband killing their kids and it's like it has to be a mental illness issue with them but uh it's more prevalent than we think you know we look at murder as the ultimate sin and probably it is but it happens quite a bit I mean yeah and it's obviously generations of of of people Savages building up into society that we have now like this is it was very common like you know when when especially back when the laws were nowhere near strict and the ability to stop people from killing people was nowhere near and speaking for myself like I think I'm a good guy I would never want to murder anyone but in the circumstances if it's me or versus another guy then like you got to do what you got to do I suppose if you had to defend yourself or defend your family no choice is that really no you're going to do it I think I think most people can do it in that situation you know so it's in you as a human being again it's it's it's look you separate that from people that are just insanely murderous you know we we've known them um it feels like when you're describing some of those guys earlier that almost you know the mafia was the vehicle for them to um enjoy that thrill like you said they were just serial killers who happen to be in the mafia but if they weren't there they would have been out like lunatics exactly yeah exactly that's that's the truth so you mentioned earlier about leaving the mafia can you describe how that felt when you finally felt free and you know how that came about how because to Mastermind that must have been really difficult you know it was difficult I would for for a long time I struggled I would go to bed leaving the life wake up no I can't do this and for me it was it was probably even more difficult because the relationship I had with my dad and not wanting to betray him in his mind you know so it was really a a struggle an emotional you know struggle with me and when I walked away you know I'll tell you a story I got violated just before I got violated my dad called me he was on Parole and I was out in California I was on Parole and he said we need you back here the family's going to war we were have another war in our family overpower right struggle and he said stop your nonsense walking away we need you and I was so torn Brian so torn I said man how could I turn my back on guys they need me and blah blah blah and I'm back and I would again I was trying to figure out a way how to break my parole not really tell my wife and go back to New York and see what I can do to try to help in some way decide that I would be on and I had made the decision to go back I said no I got to do this I was feeling just terrible well what happens just after I make the decision I'm walking out of a bank and there's 15 agents they violate my parle and I'm going into solitary for 29 months and 7 days I was in solitary the entire time the war went on oh wow I get released in the war is over so was that a blessing in disguise absolutely absolutely a blessing in dis guy I probably wouldn't be here right now had I engaged in that so you know fortunately and again to me it's a faith issue you know God had a different plan for me for sure because I had made the wrong decision I had made the wrong decision dumb decision and I would have destroyed my life and my family and everything else obviously the the mafia still exists to some degree um how do you think those guys look at you now well since there's a whole new generation of guys everybody in my life that I knew dead or in prison they're all gone and I think uh I don't think they have a real resentment towards me I honestly don't and I know that because of you know I'll share this with you there was one guy that was my Capo Jim he was my captain and I was very very close with him and he did some time in prison he got out and he was the boss of the family for a while and when I was visiting my father uh my father said let's go see him he wants to see you so this was an oldtime guy this was after everything and but we had gotten along really well so I think the attitude on the street was he didn't hurt anybody you know it's okay I honestly and I don't want to come off the wrong way I think a lot of guys saying man because they see I have a life for myself I got a wife I got kids I got grandkids we're on YouTube we're doing things I got I think a lot of guys say you know what I I wish I could reach that level or have that peace in my my life and have that you know I think there are guys cuz look it's a tough life to navigate man and I believe a lot of guys in are in it if they could have lived their life differently they would did you have like any vices that you turned to you know cuz you said you weren't really a drug guy but you know like when a man's stressed in pressure men do things do did you have a vice that you would use to take that pressure off honestly no I mean it's unbelievable I never drank really now I love wine I mean yeah I drink drink wine obviously my wife and I we go to Napa Valley we enjoy that and again I I attribute a lot of that to my dad my dad was very disciplined in his behavior he didn't smoke he didn't drink you know he didn't do drugs ever he hated drugs you know so and I really wanted to please him and emulate him and so I mean I that's why you know people oh your dad was this I said hey when I was growing up he was a good father he taught me the right way he taught me to respect women he taught me to have integrity you know so a lot of people oh but your dad was a killer he was this he was that my issue with my dad was this and I I I'll bring it out you know I after my mom passed away I sat down with him and what got me is that he didn't take responsibility for the destruction of his family and he would say to me he would actually blame my mother blame this and I and I said Dad you need to take responsibility he said nope not my fault I got framed if I didn't get framed none of this would happen I said dad you didn't get framed because you were a doctor a lawyer or a priest you got frame because we're mobsters and that's what they do we understand that he could never accept it accountability is huge isn't it in in forgiveness like it's very hard to forgive someone unless they're coming to you with good faith yeah now he might have accepted that internally but he couldn't say it out loud and it it I had I had an issue with that with him cuz he blamed my mom for a lot of things you know and I said come on you know and and initially some I would blame my mom I always took my father's side always until she got sick and was passing away and I spent a lot of time with her and she said things to me that never I guess because now I'm married and I love this woman and I looked at what my mother said from a different perspective and my wife understood my mother a lot better than I did she said what do you expect from this woman look what she went through and I never looked at it that way we looked at things differently yeah so she opened my eyes and I was more open to what my mother had to say and you know I don't know you know it's it's amazing I don't care what age you are you can always you can always learn more mate when when we're younger I feel like we judge our parents so harshly until it's time for us to be that age and to and to live that life and all of a sudden you see it through those different eyes and you realize I forgive you for a lot of this now um and I understand how just how hard it is my mom died when I was younger and I almost feel like now as I'm older I'm getting to know her still and understanding her on a totally different level almost as like her equal now I'm like oh so this is why oh okay I get it and um it is a phenomenal thing that we have to go through and I was just sort of wondering if when you go to sleep at night do you have a dream about the old days is that sort of replaying sometimes or are you completely clear of it right I got to tell you this my wife shocked me the other day because I fight a lot in my sleep oh I don't know this but the other day she was so moved by it she took a video of me and I was actually really fighting I was angry I was this again I maybe the demons come out during that time I don't ever remember anything really but it happens a lot and she said I said come on it can't be like that but she showed it to me and I was like it was scary for a minute it was like uh something possessed meh I'm I'm not kidding and I said wow I don't know maybe that's when it comes out yeah I guess maybe that's kind of like going back to the Jordan Peterson thing of like you know is it really the other side of you or is it just Tu away somewhere and maybe when your unconscious you know is allowed to come out at night maybe it's rearing its head a little bit yes yes yeah we're going to have to get your wife a baseball bat or something just in case I know sometimes she'll shove me I said what are you doing she do you realize what you're doing I said of course not I'm sleeping I've got I like the end the interview with a few sort of general questions just to see what they bring out of each guest cuz I think that it's sort of interesting so of all the time you you know you spent on this planet what's the hardest thing you feel like you've been through believe it or not one of the toughest things and one of the things I'm I'm very angry about what's going on in my country my youngest daughter I have five daughters two boys my youngest daughter was very much in love with a young man 24 years old and they were going to get engaged and he was actually my videographer you know he was doing all my video work very talented in that regard and uh an athlete 6'2 good-look guy wonderful disposition just a wonderful young man well I'm speaking in Chicago he was initially from Michigan so he was living in my house in in uh California we had a guest room and I'm on my way to the airport and I have ring on my phone where I don't know if you have that here the video comes up and it's 6:00 in the morning back in LA and ring comes on the door of my house is open and police are walking in and out of my house I'm like what the heck you know what's going on all these things went through my head then I see the paramedics so now my wife and daughter are home what happened I'm going crazy I'm trying to call nobody's answering make a very long story short this young man took an Aderall Aderall that these kids do they try to stay up to do their test in college right that was laced with fent andol within 10 minutes collapsed on my bathroom floor and died Oh my he was poisoned wasn't an addict he was poisoned right so my daughter was so traumatized uh Brian that for six months we couldn't go back in the house I thought I was going to have to move it took her it's only the last three months this happened a little over two years ago that she's come out of it but to see what this young girl went through my daughter that I love you know she's my only child out of seven that I was with since birth No Interruption with prison so we're very tight and my wife found him too so the two of these women the two women in my life were traumatized to watch her go through this was probably the most difficult thing out of everything that I've experienced and we're talking a lot that that I had to go through and that we had to go through as a family and it's it's got me so angry because I know what Going H coming down on our Southern border all the drugs that are coming through a 100,000 people a year dying being half of them being poison Reon not even addicts with this stuff that's coming through so I I think that's the most and I'm I'm be honest with you I'm so angry about it right now that I have to pray to sub my make my anger subside because you don't want your anger to get the best of you you make wrong decisions but it's something that's uh even harder than being in a hole I hear that like I really feel like that pain and uh I think it says a lot about you that my question of what's the hardest thing you've been through was watching someone else's pain yeah and not your own so you know I respect that you have a lot of empathy for your daughter and uh you know I hope that you can get through um what is going to be probably you know a few more years of dealing with this to come to terms with it cuz a death like that it it it is a sudden deaths are I've I've known them and they're very hard to to deal with you know especially your daughter being so young so much for her to go through and uh yeah I mean that is so difficult it's tough and fortunately for the last three months she starting to this was the in other words she's been okay for a week and then boom goes back into depression but these last three months she's been like for two years we couldn't celebrate Christmas we didn't have a Christmas because it was just too hard for her we understood to watch your someone you love go through that pain it's oh gosh it was it was torture and and and they say it is true like time is that healer that that people like need and um you just you just uh I'm assuming that you're getting a counseling and that sort of stuff to try and help her through it therapy our church was terrific and I got to tell you this Brian do you love animals I certainly do man yeah she we have this uh Siberian Husky I fell in love with this dog like you have she's a wonderful dog but what she's done for my daughter oh my gosh it's like she's been a breath fresh air in the house and my my daughter actually travels with us she's not with us now because she didn't want to leave the dog because we're coming back for the tour and we have other things planned so she didn't want to spend that much time away from our little NOA so I always enjoyed animals and loved animals but now it's like this is like a child in our house she's been so well appreciated I was just saying this recently in the last week to someone like they animals but dogs especially they're like they're like batteries they literally charge everyone up with unbeliev what they do what's your biggest regret up now I have a few but you know I have a couple um I was married early on before I met my wife for a short period of time I had three children with her good woman nothing negative to say but one of my biggest regrets was not being as close with mainly my two daughters I had two daughters and a son my son is out with me he's been with me for 15 years uh but my two girls I never was able to solidify that relationship number one because I divorced their mom and we were separated and with my I didn't only leave them I left them because I went right to jail so I was like really gone out of their lives and was never able to repair it to the point that I should M and I take the blame for that it's my responsibility as a father maybe I didn't do everything I should have done I don't know but that's a deep regret um and the other regret is you know not as a person of Faith we're supposed to share our faith with the people that we love I didn't do that to the right extent with my dad I feel that I could have done more and it was just very hard for me to communicate with him on that basis that's not an excuse I should have still worked it harder but I didn't and that's a regret because you know as a Christian we believe in heaven and hell and you know hopefully my dad is where he's in heaven and he made his uh his uh you know his peace with the Lord but if that didn't happen am I somewhat responsible because I didn't do enough you know so it's something that's going to stay with me until I find out you know put it that way who was it that inspired you the most in your life well early on it was my dad I have to say that and it's been my wife I mean she yeah absolutely my wife she she's not only has she inspired me she's kept me on the right track I'm not perfect don't get me wrong I mean I she she has she has a work cutout for with me let me tell you I'm not the easiest guy to keep on track all the time and I've made mistakes in my life you know look marriage is difficult when everything is great but when you have the pressure that we had eight years in prison all this kind of stuff the mob mentality um it's even more difficult but you know we were totally committed to one another and here we are 38 years later through all of these conditions but she has uh inspired me to be a better person and to to do the right things and she's kept me on track for the most part years what's your tip uh if if you had to give one in terms of as a man you know uh being a good husband well you know they say happy happy wife happy life you know again it's look no matter what nonsense maybe my wife knows that I love her very much I in many ways put her on a pedestal because she's earned that she deserves that and I enjoy treating her that way you know and in turn she gives me everything that I need you know she's very compliant in that so maybe that's the wrong word I don't want to you know she's yeah yeah yeah I got to CH you may fold on a questioning exactly she uh you know she does the right thing with you know so we compliment each other well um yeah man and we're opposite in a lot of ways okay she's I got to say this she's a better judge of character than I am yeah you know and with my wife you don't have too many She'll always love you she'll pray for you but if she thinks you're not the right person you're going to have to work very very hard to get back into her Graces cuz she's very intuitive that way I tend to be easy you know and she'll tell me you're making a mistake then no I don't don't worry about him and she's writing should have made a better mob boss than you she might she might have but uh and she's very protective of me also you know she watches uh this and I appreciate that well yeah I mean cuz now you're a man of value you're you're you're literally able to help all these people which means people want to be helped so I'm assuming she's got her eyes peeled and uh that's a healthy thing because kind of like what we were saying about the consiliary role that you were saying earlier is you don't want to consiliary who's a yes man who's just going to be the same as you and a relationship is a lot like having you're both consiliary for each other I guess like that sort of absolutely and fitting in where each other or weaker makes for a better scenario in my opinion than two people are identical um and in terms of your life who do you feel was the one that let you down the most um I think it was my dad you know in the end and I I don't want it like it's I'm not complaining about it but it was disappointing to me the way in both of those areas number one you know what happened that night I felt it was a betrayal MH and number two not taking responsibility and another thing you know after my dad was um was violated for the third time you know and the family's falling apart excuse me I said to him dad our family is falling apart you need to get out of New York let's go to Florida California whatever and put the family back together forget everything else prioritize the family yes he wouldn't do that and as a result the family's destroyed and I initially I didn't hold that against him but later on I said he could have made a he could have walked away my dad earned it hey you know what I got to worry about my family I'm on parole I can't associate with anybody and nobody would have held it against him exactly because of who he was his position yeah but he chose to his his bigger Allegiance was to that life the problem my dad had his legacy meant everything in the life not as a husband and a father reputation over reality exactly and when I realized that that was wrong it was very disappointing yeah and I he he should have been a different man in that regard yeah and I always relate things that people tell me to my own life and that is that reputation of a reality thing is definitely something I've been aware of lately like cuz when everyone starts knowing who you are whatever the reason is it can go to your head and it can become the number one focus and it it's such a mistake it's an easy trap to fall into that many men especially cuz we have egos right we want everyone to know how great we are course how why else would I be sitting in front of the camera um but you know I have to uh being a better man is always the most important thing to me now and I'm glad I've sort of in my 30s managed to figure that out uh because I've seeing some men as you've described there kind of it's too late yeah to put it right and that's such an important thing and I know young men watch this show and if they are listening like if you aren't happy with your who the real person is definitely is you've got to figure that out quicker than what people think of you for sure yeah and you know Brian I have uh I visited prisons quite a bit and you know kind of ministered to men in there and this is what I tell young man I can't tell you how many guys 50s you know late 40s 50s early 60s and they turn around they'll say to me Michael look at my life mhm you you know what did I do I wasted all these years all this time I don't have a wife now I don't know what I'm going to do I'm spending my time in prison you know and and they don't realize what they're doing to themselves you know until reality really hits and it hits hard and that's why I tell these young men listen you're only young once do the right thing and young so that when you get old you're set up properly you're older years and um you know a lot of a lot of young guys may oh I have time I have time no you don't have time do it now get yourself in shape now in the right way um do you know you one that hit me when I turned 35 because my whole life I thought by 35 I'll have it all figured out and I turn 35 I thought I need to make some big changes here the clock is ticking exactly yeah um but see there again you know that's when you need guidance you need mentorship you need people telling you things you know one of one of the things that I attribute to some of the success I had is I was always a good listener I paid attention to people and even now if somebody like I'll sit there and wow if somebody has something smart to tell me I want to pay attention I don't know everything you know I can learn and uh and and being a good listener when people told me to do things that were smart I tried to pay attention to that and it pays off in the end there's no question well my last question mate um and this has been fantastic by the way one last question how would you like to be remembered my legacy um a good husband a good father to my children grandfather to my uh to my uh grandchild and just that you know he did benefit the community and the people around him and basically that's what you want to be if you can be known as that or known for that you've you've lived your life okay well that was amazing I've thoroughly enjoyed this one one of my favorites uh this was Michael Frances on the true Jordie podcast you can catch it to uh he's coming of the UK you can watch his YouTube channel you can buy the books I'll put all the links in the description below thank you very much Michael really appreciate well thank you Brian and I have to say this this was you you got things out of me that I haven't spoken about before and I really appreciate that and I have a lot more to talk about on the tour but I just want to thank all the people of the United Kingdom I I mean I've been more accepted here than anywhere in the world and people are always nice and gracious but to a greater extent here MH uh and I really appreciate that and you guys have won me over so amazing amazing we'll keep coming back um don't forget you can check out the two out links in the description below if you haven't already hit that like button subscribe to the true Jordy YouTube channel thanks for watching we'll see you on the next one thank you very much Michael Brian that was great loved it I really mean it good job you know thank you very [Music] much oh

Channel: True Geordie

Views: 240,050

Keywords: Mafia, Michael Franceze, Gangsters, Mob, True Crime, Godfather, Goodfellas, Scarface, John Gotti, The Krays, Mobsters, New York, Sammy Gravano, The Sopranos, Tony Soprano, Tony Montana, Real Crime, Joe Rogan, Al Pacino, Robert Deniro, Coffeehouse Crime, Jeffrey Dahmer, The Iceman

Id: oq6qWl1hxzg

Length: 107min 24sec (6444 seconds)

Published: Wed Jan 31 2024