Former Mafia Captain Michael Franzese | Hotboxin' with Mike Tyson

but the one guy there was two guys that were high-profile like that that there was a hit on and/or they were thinking about it one was Giuliani and the other believing that was Geraldo Rivera oh really yes and I told him this when I he interviewed me wants us and I was on Hannity with you Oh like you almost mic he almost died hey everybody welcome to another episode of hot box and I'm Evan Britton and I might die somethin like that sounds serious today we've got Michael Franzese in the hotbox welcome thank you so much to be here alright Mike good to be here thank you so much for joining us I don't know I mean I think we just need to start where you grew up I'm on YouTube I what the on YouTube all the time deal with have you pitching you to I think yeah we just have to start back at the beginning yeah let's do it back in the beginning well I grew up in Brooklyn Greenpoint section and my dad was the underboss of the Colombo family back in the 60s so I grew up in that environment and he was a very highly publicized you know for some reason you know I found out later on with all the guys around they seemed to just pick my dad as kind of the main guy the media guy the guy that government was after all the time so I grew up in an environment where we had law enforcement around us all the time I grew up actually hating the police I hated them because my dad was my hero and they were kind of like the enemy you know always looking to indict him arrest him always around the house you know their tactics back then were very different than they are today today everything is very covert you know you got a lot of informants a lot of you know high to low we break the law yeah and yeah back then they had seven or eight different agencies following my dad and they'd have a car parked around my house 24/7 so wherever we went I was one of seven kids we had a parade of law enforcement vehicles follow and I got into many scuffles with them you know had many many incidents and so I grew up hating them and a my dad he was indicted three times in the state for murder for grand larceny and some other thing he beat all of those cases but then in 66 they indicted him in federal court for masterminding and nationwide string of bank robberies convicted and sentenced to 50 years it was the longest sentence for a bank robbery conspiracy case ever given up to that point loses all his Appeals in 1970 and they shipped him off to Leavenworth Penitentiary to do his time so I was you know my dad wanted me out of this life you want me to get involved I was actually a pre-med student at Hofstra University in Long Island but when he went in I was you know I was devastated I mean 50 years she was 50 when he went in figure you know it's a death sentence yeah so you know Joe Colombo was very close to me at that time he kind of took me under his wing I started meeting a lot of my dad's friends and I just lost interest in school and I went to see my dad you know Mike I'll never forget I said dad Mike robbery I mean you know what is this all about and he looked at me and he said son I was framed I'm innocent I'm not a bank robber and I believed him and until his day I'm telling you my dad did 40 years on that on that sentence and he did it for a crime he didn't commit my dad was no bank robber and so I said I gotta I gotta get you for something they got yeah they do and they on you they're on you he beat him so many times I had to do something you know so you know at that point we were in the penitentiary in Leavenworth then he said look if you're gonna be on the street and once you're on the street the right way and it was at that point that he proposed me for membership in the family and that's how things thought it kind of started for me now listen how were you when you became a made man I was uh when I became a recruit and I was 22 yeah and I took the oath when I was 24 two years later I thought listen how do you your mind feel like I'm yeah so I'm a made guy in the neighborhood nobody could [ __ ] with me put their hands on me but I can [ __ ] with you how did you do that look my mentality I'm a young 20 cent euro guy Hey I don't like this [ __ ] guy but I love his girlfriend kill that [ __ ] that's my main time you know me if I want this kill loan you know me if I want that [ __ ] house he ever been [ __ ] him if I was a mom never so does that that took hold in your mind you know Mike no honestly I got involved in a life really to help my my father I mean that was my whole motivation help me feel feel self and absorb this stuff from the mouth and my be so self-absorbed yeah but you know what it happens I mean it's a rush because you know you got a ringside table or if you go people give you a lot of respect and you know you try to carry yourself the right way you don't want to abuse the honey but you never had that before nothing important it's not it's never like this I'll give you a little bit at a time it's just all at once boom you made yeah but understand I grew up with it you know I mean look I I spent my childhood in the Copacabana meeting everybody from Sinatra on down so you know my dad was that kind of a guy I mean when he walked into a place I mean he was he was a different guy who really looked up to him they really respected him he carried himself well and he was he was a tough guy I mean there's no question about it you know so I mean I grew up around it and I really admired and respected my dad but when I got into the life you know I want to do number one I wanted to get him out of prison so I worked hard on that and number two honestly I want there to be the best possible mob guy could be so one second fifth year would it mean you know in that life you kind of make your own way ahead guys a give me an example we had I took the oath in 1975 all right on Halloween night actually the works of us that night that took the oath and we had a hundred and fifteen made guys guys that actually took the oath out of the hundred and fifteen 20 of us were earners the other guys were just the maids we bring in money yeah we were earning earning really from everybody else the other guys who got him a union job whose doing a little bookmaking you know trying to scratch out a living so I was determined to make money and I had a head for business and I used the life I knew how to use the life to benefit me that way so I took advantage of that you know when I got involved in a lot of different things and you know I I came upon a scam I'll tell you what happens Mike there was a guy a guy Italian guy around me right he kept coming to me he had a guest a couple of gas stations on legality at like a wholesale operation so he comes to me and he says Mike he says you know I got these two guys from another family they keep trying to extort me he said you got to help me out because I was kind of a guy on the island when I moved out there I did some research on this guy and I found out that he had testified in a case a civil case against the governor's brother at the time so I don't want having eaten two of them right he kept coming back kept coming back he said to me listen if you help me out I got a way to defraud the government out of some tax on gasoline so we got my attention right I hated the government so I said well explain it to me so he tells me this little thing ice all right we're gonna go into business together so I want to form a new company that's it so I get rid of the two guys that were bothering him I got him get rid them go away and I put this guy Vinnie around me I had a guy around he's a big guy right he was a butcher big scar across I said a real ya real for biases many watch this guy Larry let's see if he's got something tell me what he's got about two weeks later he comes to my house on a Saturday he used to bring me meet every Saturday it was my butcher and he's got a box on his shoulder and I agree he's a gold medal hopes with money I'm saying what are we doing with all this meat we're having a party or something I don't know about it he says hey chief coming to the kitchen it ain't meat puts the Box on the table he opens it up three hundred and twenty thousand dollars he said this is the first week steak in the gas business smells like gasoline right I didn't care what I smell like but he got my attention so what happened Mike over the next eight years I took that from three hundred and twenty thousand that week to almost ten million a week we had about 350 gas stations people weren't getting that one how many people do you have in your crew that was getting that money well you know I was supporting a lot of people the guys at work and I was kicking up to the family I was giving them two million dollars a week you got two million dollars a week that buys a lot of loyalty as you know you know what I mean so I would think of two out hell yeah I would say go ahead man do what the [ __ ] you want to do yeah and so they made me a captain 1982 elevated me to that position and I grabbed I got a deal with all the Russian guys out of Brighton Beach you know they were my partners to whatever great partners like a sharpie real quick what does it mean as a captain do you have people under you yeah that's what I'll tell you to rank you got a boss an underboss a capo regime you know consul Gary and Kansai area and a capo regime the cop reasoning there's a captain and then the next official position is soldier when you come into the life when you take the oath you become a soldier and then you you either stay that way you go up from there and when when are you made whether you have made guy you know listen at any point no no no you gotta go soldier see what happens dad sends me I'm now Joe Colombo had been shot that's near 71 and Tom DiBella was the new boss he took over he's dead now and I sat with Tom and he says Mike I got a message from your father he said you want to become a member of our life is that true I said yes he said here's the deal from now on 24 hours a day seven days a week you're all called to serve this family that means if your mother is sick and dying and you're at her bedside and we call your service you'll leave your mother you come and serve us from now on we're number one in your life before anything and everything when and if we feel you deserve the privilege the honor to become a member will let you know and you're in a recruit period where you have to do anything you know everything you're told to do to prove yourself worthy and you know listen people ask all the time number one question my killing did you ever kill anybody do I get three three top questions number one did you ever kill anybody number two where's all your money buried number three where's Jimmy Hoffa better yeah top questions all the time I can name him whenever I go it doesn't matter so you know after about two years I prove myself worthy and then we got called in on it was Halloween night 1975 in a secure place in Brooklyn and we all took an oath so then you became captain I became a soldier when I when I came in in 75 in 80 they elevated me to position it did your father know Luciano yeah oh yeah your friends yeah my dad you know 102 years old he's the oldest living mob guy in the world well you not only your father he was born in 1917 yeah 1917 now when you start figuring out because you could basically do anything as an earner yeah you can make it's just about how you make the money we couldn't get involved in drugs okay that time we were told straight out if you get involved with drugs you die what she always hands off now what guys doing it they were doing it on a side of it uh but you know which it was crazy because I seen a lot of guys get killed over it yeah were you and John Gotti associate I was friends with John you know John and I I tell you about John why do we like him so much no I mean so much that the psyche of the society was I think number one because he he made no bones about who he was I'm a mob guy I'm god I'm up guy and I want to be anything else that's it so he was true to that and the way he carried himself you know he just he became a media star you know I want he kept beating the government and you know what I mean but socially he was great our good times we would meet in clubs all the time business he was very hard to deal with very hard but you know we got along we had a few scrapes he and I but I like him I like his family I still know his face you're locked up at the same time yeah we were yeah we like the same thing at each other play cause we played car yeah we were robbed we were an MDC together we waiting trial yeah well you ever locked up with Sammy I was yeah in the same place touching distance yeah what was that like you know I always say this on John Gotti's worst day he was a better guy than Sammy yeah on his worst day I mean I wasn't a fan of his he had kind of a Napoleon complex and it was a small guy and he was just very arrogant so a lot of people didn't get along with him you know he was a different crew than me but we still not get along but I'll tell you this Mike I know how you feel about it but it's a guy that admitted to 19 murders and the government makes a deal with him and puts him back out on the street I mean this is the time stone they want to they want to yeah but I mean come on 19 murders you make a deal with a guy like that and put them back on the street you know what he was doing then he got involved in ecstasy yeah in a club that I was involved with on on Sunset Boulevard in order to keep the yeah I'm at Key Club remember to keep Sunset I was involved with that and he was there was selling ecstasy in the club he just got out about a year ago go family yeah stay on a street name job yeah yeah is the idea of you know letting a guy like that out letting him come back to society there's the idea that you're getting something bigger in return like what is the psychology of that of that system they needed Gotti I mean they wanted him and he beat them so many times he was you know thumbing his nose in their face and they wanted him and they were willing to make a deal with anybody really yeah you know you know what happened I'll tell you what happened in our life there was there was a lot of respect there was also a lot of fear what happened in our life when guys on the street started fearing the government more than they were fear in our life yeah that's when everybody started flipping and turning and it was it was unbelievable when did that change happen really in the 80s you know when they started using that racketeering law I was in I was in the next cell with Sammy and I'll never forget he was we were in NBC and we were talking through the you know through the air conditioning vent not inking whatever was in the floor because you couldn't talk at a wall there but we got talking and for some reason he didn't sound right to me you notice things were not sounding the right the way he was talking and then they came and took him away not too long after that huh but you know I kind of resent this because people say all the younger guys really couldn't stand up like the older guys but my answer to that you know if thirty forty years ago you've got ten years you got 15 years anybody can do that you do seven eight years you get on our parole you go back to your life today they hit you with a RICO charge it to 60 you got you got 20 years right off the bat no more parole meaning you're doing 17 and a half minimum and if you get 20 on a RICO case you're lucky I was facing 150 years Wow honey and they would have gave me every bit of it because when I was in MDC I'm watching these guys going to trial Mike they're coming back 300 years 90 years I said man I'm the youngest guy they're gonna give me five thousand years I'll never get out of jail but you know I took my shot anyhow I mean I I took a plea and I did my time but fortunately I beat him a couple of times so they wanted a conviction on me but that's why guys didn't stand up nobody stands up it's very hard you know you know one guy that's my dad my dad didn't give him five million years he's never seen a word to anybody he was that kind of a guy why don't you think hey why do you think he's um what do you think it's nothing for people need to live that life they need to make sure they feel this for me I'm not doing this cold I don't care that can kill me why do you think they have to have that mentality to be part of that life yeah it's that mentality like some people that's not even part of life just like that why would why would somebody want to do something like that you need to be involved in a life where to be an informant know don't give a [ __ ] I don't care they give me a hundred years you know there's just there are people say but I think I'm not like that no no do me one rear got it like that yeah and that's my dad well Persico jr. my former boss I mean these guys they're just they're old-time guys yeah yeah and it's like I'll die in jail that's it my dad my dad the worst thing you could ever call him missus that you're an informant you can call them and never that he just can't accept it it's not part of his many people take the life that well that life thought gave them honor even lean so that's what he did so something yeah it Mike you know what the best thing that happened to that life on the street the movie The Godfather yeah I'm telling you I was I was younger than it was in myself it was in 70s but you know Joe Colombo was involved in that movie I remember really oh yeah he actually edited the script he took the original script had the word mafia all over it he took it out he made changes in it and they had no choice they had to do it but after that saves the family after that movie came out guy started to walk differently they started to dress stiff treated them differently treated him different being black of some Browns it being I get mafia guy that's [ __ ] like God you can get away with anything the cops [ __ ] with nice you never got a ticket the cops brought you presents rich et across the cops you know me yeah nice rule the [ __ ] van Gogh the big kind of guys respect you didn't this with you yeah they don't know your [ __ ] name you don't even meet them you meet that [ __ ] boys they're business partners are their lawyers to business with you there's the truth hasn't living that life that's all everybody I always had all that they wanted to be involved if I wanted to be involved with tomorrow they had a history of that you're gonna make some money be involved these Italians they're gonna get you money and you gonna go to jail either and I mention for that you know the reason for that you know there's these other groups out there but if you take the drug business away from them they all collapse and I'm not knock I'm just as the truth yeah but with us we survived and prospered for well over a hundred years under some very tough conditions the reason for that we infiltrated every fabric of society from the white house right down to the guy on the street in the numbers business we control the unions in this country you control the unions you control the country because you got all that money behind you for political purposes to buy your way into things you got everybody at your beck and call you call this like it built [ __ ] built man they build an every day ten millions of times you can't getin business the country stops we start you don't want the country to start with a [ __ ] you call a teamster he would be on slavery yeah you call a strike with the team [ __ ] you got two and a half million truck drivers stop yeah you taught you call a strike at the docks nothing comes in and out of the country that's tremendous control yeah definitely take us back into you became a captain you're earning a lot a lot of money a lot of income for the family what so what are the businesses then what are what are your options what did you do well you know like I said I had a head for legitimate but look I had a gambling operation I ha 12 or 13 bookmakers working for me you know and the reason for that if there's a bookmaker on the street we're not gonna allow it to operate unless he's kicking yeah so they're always yeah so we had we had a bunch of look and that what a fresh new thinking yeah why would you be on my corner this is where I make my - my favorite live that why would you be a sum of money we're not getting a part of it you know and you know I had a head we had the Union a lot of union control - at one time you know I had the security guard Union with me we had the security guards in nine nuclear power plants around the country whoa so nine nuclear power plants were controlled by a mob controlled Union you know I don't know if you know that deal but a nuclear power plant after it shuts down you have to have security there for a hundred years whoa that's the law even after it shuts down they don't use it anymore because of you know it's toxic and already laughter so you know I had I had some union control and you know I had a lot of legitimate business I had a bunch of car dealerships at a leasing company kind of cost ourselves I had Mercedes and I had Chevrolet a Mazda had a big leasing company so we're doing that and I had a production company out in LA we were making movies and you know you got a couple of restaurants and you got a piece of stuff because guys are coming to you all the time they're looking for money so you give him a few bucks you take a piece of the business and that's how it goes and I was very aggressive so I had a lot of stuff going on back did you ever meet the guy Iceman I never met him I yeah he was she was around us I you know I'm like I don't think I met him I really don't yeah and I didn't know at the time you know sometimes you don't talk about a certain guy but yeah I mean what did your father think about Capone you know my dad's funny yeah you know he didn't think real highly of them that's weird yeah he really did and you know Capone came out of New York even though that yeah came out of Brooklyn to me wasn't that tough no no that tough and booklet they believe Brooklyn after we know that's right oh yeah that's right oh it's just like no [ __ ] yeah interesting how how far back what's the lineage how old is is the mob it's the beginning of time ancient right mafia started in Italy with the French but imagine it had there been back then with Hannibal during that time - yeah under hell not have secret societies when you have civilizations hey way back and then you know they immigrated here to America and it started in the early 1900s for 1900 American Mafia and stuff yeah it's American when you have him in the gone system you know time yeah how can it not be going on I'm probably big business in the Mafia now cooperate America's mafia now if you don't do yeah sell you out will crush you we starve you out you don't take this deal shame shame Machiavellian thought process yeah yeah what is the state of it now you know it still exists uh-huh it's it's certainly not going away not in my lifetime but it's not the same it's really not you know the the government did a I guess you got to say a good job starting any 80s and I give Giuliani to credit or blame he put the last day at Kauffman he really started to use it the racketeering laws effectively it was him so you know in case it can print in my time yeah he you know and he was Italian - he just he gave the story that he visited Joe Bonanno and he got insulted over Bonanno book that he wrote that time so he decided to go after the mob but I believe you know that was he came down from Washington to become the US attorney in Manhattan saw high-profile uh-huh and he picked the biggest high-profile organization he went after the mob and made headlines and it was good for his career now as a guy like Giuliani and danger of you know having a hit put on him or anything like that you know in our life we really didn't go after the law enforcement early it's different you know kill everybody family government they don't care don't care it's a matter of fact they wanted me to do a book signing in Italy and I said you guys are out of your mind you get a body double or something I ain't going italy because they they don't care over there but we never did that but the one guy there was two guys that were high-profile like that that there was a hit on and/or they were thinking about it warm was Giuliani and the other believe in now is Geraldo Rivera oh really yes and I told him this when I he interviewed me once I said I was on Hannity with him oh like he almost mic he almost died yeah I told him off-camera I said there was two guys Geraldo that we really hated one was Giuliani any other was you and he turned white sir sir okay now I said they're dead said I ain't gonna hurt you but you rather do Rivera tried so hard when he was coming up and had this showed he is one to be accepted so what the crowd the love them so bad everybody yeah he was yeah he was he made his name on the empty safer now Capone's safe yeah Al Capone yeah if anything you would have wanted to work with law enforcement as much as possible yeah well you know whatever you know there's so many guys look we had five families in New York and among all of five families we had about 750 guys that took the oath actually took the old you had a lot of associates but there were so many of us that we had so many relationships we had cousins that were cops uh-huh no we had a neighbors that were cops so we were able to get they liked us you know so we were able to move around pretty good you know it was um they did the scientific study and they realized a cup psychology in the criminal psychology is pretty much the same yeah you know I mean they pretty much the thing yeah make sense yeah you got to have a certain mentality be Potter dad I mean look yeah well that brings me to my next question is you cross paths with Donnie Brasco yeah before yeah my friend that was an FBI agent was friends with him I thought wow his friends would would lefty you know his main guy they're here we all right yeah Rogerio he was by the way a great great move amazing I think that Pacino the guy lefty they made everybody fall in love with left that was Pacino's best roll so good but uh so I crossed paths with him because they were from Greenpoint too once or twice in that life I always tease him nice man I'm so glad I didn't do business with you clay I've done a few things with him afterwards you know sorry I left him in the venue so sorry brother man yeah he did yeah him and Sonny black he said he felt bad but you know he had to do what he had to do yeah cuz you know he left he didn't get killed over that but so liked it oh wow yeah and the movie where it shows him taking off his stuff like he was gonna get killed he died of natural causes but Sonny black got killed over Donnie Brasco I'm glad lefty think yeah Wow how was that a one-in-a-million thing or did that happen a lot okay no it didn't happen a lot yeah I mean they I just didn't do that homework on him you know they really didn't I mean you got to go back you know I don't know if you noticed Mike they had a big undercover investigation on me to get Don King he's poor shadowboxing really yeah I'll tell you how it happened that have been so [ __ ] interesting no I I tell you die he's pretty smart though they they send these two guys to me and they told me they want to get into one with an undercover FBI age the other was around Muhammad Ali the guy been a name of Reggie I forget his last name he took him out of prison because she knew the boxing game and they come to me and they say look we got money and we want to get into the boxer they let him out of I let him out of prison they said we want to be in the boxing game but we want to go at the high level I said well who do you want to meet they said Don King so I I roam ants these guys for about six or seven months before I would bring them to Don I get all out Sharpton who was running with us at the time and I said al had the cowboy head or the two guys yeah those are the two pass because they posed as drug dealers from South America so I told him I said look I'm not gonna bring you to King and let's say see the money so the FBI sits in a bank account up and they put they show that they got 15 million dollars in a bank so Sharpton sets up the meeting with Don and that we go to see him before I let these two guys in the room I go see Don I said Don listen I only traced these guys six or seven months I verified the money but at this table don't see anything out of the way talk straight tell him how to business runs do everything legit all right and he does he doesn't say anything wrong it does everything right and we walk out in a room and now I'm getting at my so you got to put up the money and the FBI wouldn't allow him to go that far and then the whole thing fell apart after that but but what do they do this um this [ __ ] look at some papers a let's get in there what do they do they just thought these investors there's something up they start an investigation they shave where it leads that's it so that was a you never heard of another instance of a guy infiltrating her you know not to the level it that Pistone did no I mean he was tried to become turncoat semester I mean it was all to tell you about the relased guy to fill out the windows a human at that time kid rellis remember the guy that it was or a beer Ellis yeah yeah yeah they threw him out yeah yeah murder incorporated all that stuff oh yeah no but with I mean Pistone they were gonna they wanted to kill somebody they were gonna bring him on ahead and they were gonna make him or they were gonna straighten him out I mean he got that far and obviously they had a stop at that point but he got that far wow they really accepted him Sonny black I had loved him well so tell me do you have some people that are just born and forth that you get involved they just want them breathing sorry they would do was guys there that Roy DeMeo did you know him I knew Roy he really that kind of guy he was yeah that's interesting how violent was it how prevalent was the violence town by Roy DeMeo instead Roy DeMeo yeah he was his crew was just a wild crew I mean they they chopped up bodies they put people in Samanta I mean they did they want the old distance yeah they touching these people could be great Greg Scarpa was a guy with us they call him the Grim Reaper he was another guy that he was tough to be around you know he had that kind of that cloud over him you know what I mean Mike it's kind of like Thor yeah yeah actually trying what you say may be careful anybody outside the crew what they think yeah it's kind of one of those guys you know there were some guys that I know that just enjoyed that and there's other guys that just did what they had to do I mean we were all capable we had to do it it's yeah I'm in a room I gotta bathe me for a guy get put to sleep yeah that must be a trip right yeah it's tough that's always where happening that I'm building up here you never saw before the NEC go down even though it might got a you know one of the horrors of that life you know what happened to you you don't know what you were in trouble your best friend walks you into a room you don't walk out again so when they were I had it I had an incident where some Newsday article came out paper on Long Island and he said that I was making billions of dollars so the boss Persico at the time was kind of questioning me says Mike what's what's going on they're saying you're making billions I said jr. I'm giving you two million dollars a week you're not happy I said I'm taking all the risk it's everything here so one night they I walked into a a room I didn't think I was gonna walk out again I'll be honest with you it was kind of a death walk for me and people have said to me why didn't you cut and run it was almost it was robotic it wasn't like you know I'm a macho guy was just hey if this is if this is the because we're am I gonna run right what happened well I'm here all right so it was all right but now they started questioning me about money and grilling me with my Russian partners because you know they had tried to go to my Russian partners to see and and they were pretty loyal to me so they told not everything's on the up-and-up so they were trying I was a younger guy that we're trying to scare me a little bit at that point make sure they knew that who they were the boss and so on and so forth because I was you know I had a pretty big crew at the time this was jealous too little jealous why I don't want to say but you you know how it goes you know it's because the jealous yeah yeah oh yeah a lot of guys went down for the wrong reason man you see a guy that started out you start out before him he knew the [ __ ] guy hanging out in the cold nifty no he got a [ __ ] Club he got a dignity all these [ __ ] [ __ ] on them the nice cars and stuff and you started before Muse here before him yeah yeah cuz you know when I started no I mean I had a jet plane I had my own helicopter you know I was driving all the guys around when I started from nothing now he got that and the old time is they kind of resent that a younger guy you know you're kind of resented so so he said a car magnet um the old man who's the guy used to be with Luciano know this guy Carlo Gambino he musta hated your guys boy you know I do guys out there he would go with the quiet game with the hate you guys shown yeah he was regarded you know the money's under the mattress and I'm just the salesman and nothing I he didn't want to be by he was she was that kind of very low-key guy I know in those guys yeah and Phil into that yeah I know a lot of the sly guy we all respected those guys too yeah Philly spent a lot of time there upstate New York you know Russell Bufalino there the movie that's coming out now is all about the idea the one that Scorsese did with net perhaps man yeah oh yeah it's gonna be a good movie it's gonna be a good movie that's the guy that allegedly you know killed off huh all right huh so he wrote a book and they're doing a movie everybody's in it now it's gonna be a good movie no doubt Oh Scorsese always comes yeah Goodfellas Goodfellas great movie Casino who would you guys kill and why would they be killed well you told straight out obviously you turned snitch you're dead uh-huh you get involved with drugs you're dead you dishonor another man's wife how do you order how do you think they allowed you how do you get out of a lot how do you prove this guy's lying a lot of times you got a lie to prove that you're innocent well you know here is it here's the thing you know when you sit down on another made guy we ever sit down or we have a dispute right you're a made guy I'm a made guy if I call you a liar I lose the argument at the table you always had to be respectful you couldn't call somebody else you lie you had to try to outsmart them to win your point because if you break the rules at the sit down you lose automatically so you had a you had to learn how to be very cagey and very technical not to fall into a trap not to let somebody get you so upset that you could name are you telling me what this guy named the Anastasia guy wasn't how but you taught me Albert Anastasia talk down and had a decent conversation with the person can't do it at the table I'm telling you now maybe if you're the boss you do what you want but you're not supposed to really yeah you can't not yelling at somebody and if you yell you're gonna yell in private yeah there was a lot of times when another made guy called him every name under the Sun but if we were with people never but it was just me and him in a room because then he'd I call him a lie he calls me a lie we each deny it there's no problem but you can't do it in front of another guy it's all order and everything that we since the beginning yeah oh yeah even more so among the old-timers there now yeah such an interesting world ma'am and did they like Louisiana did your father like yeah my my dad liked him yeah like lucky like how did he feel about the deals and stuff in the game like it like you know Lansky liked him yeah he told me about him he thought it was a very quiet guy Lansky no sir yeah yeah yeah my dad you know he sold he knew everybody what was it that got you into prison I ended up by they took me to trial four times Giuliani tried me on a big case I beat all four cases well and after a they were coming after me on the gas business and my partner was turning informant he got locked up on another case they pulled him out if we had a compound in Panama and we were actually paying Noriega for stuff well and so when he he went on trial for some other deal that he had and halfway through the trial he says to me I'm not going to jail he says we got a compound I'll run everything from there so he leaves he goes to Panama because at that time there was no extradition between Panama in the United States or you know what the feds did they went in there in the middle of the night and he kidnapped him and brought him back to Florida whoa put him on a plane broke door down in his house pulled him out put him on a plane brought up to Florida as soon as he got there he started flipping on me so I know I'd have problem with the gas case so after I beat Giuliani's case I had leverage with the government because they wanted a conviction so I made a deal I got a ten-year sentence at a twenty million dollar restitution and I had to give up the plane helicopter and I wouldn't did my time but what year was that that was in I took the plane 85 and I did eight years on on the 10 which was maximum but I just knew that the life was in trouble I said forget it I get a convicted here on something gonna give me a hundred years I'm dead so I had a shot to do it and I said let me take my chance I'd rather do a couple of years in jail and come out and least have a life and I was still a young guy you know at that point so you remember the hit well if they hit that dumb when he took over when God he took over and Tom got Paulie Castellanos yeah yeah it's box yeah you know what happened when they have well you know we all down when they we all knew it yeah we all know what yeah when did things like that they don't Ward circulates quick yeah yeah do families have fright leaf a.m. the Gambino family and the Luque do they ever have wards with each other no that stuff ended back in the 30s and 40s whenever there's a warmth you know it's always a civil war it's always within the family huh you know power usually was gonna be the boss and never with another family no never with another family at least not in the last 50 60 years but we had we had we were pretty rough family in Africa we always killing each other always huh over doesn't happen like this Sam I'm gonna cage you again being alright and we're in family with cousins we're cousins and you have a problem with a guy and so on and I'm mad because you man this man so can your cousin kill them yeah that happened before you yeah I'll figure that yeah I'm sure that would happen my family than this family this guy pissed me off he did somebody killed my friend a family member yeah yeah we always helped each other out stuff like that you know what so the the stuff the stuff between family members that was all somebody lied to somebody or dishonored businesses fueled you know if your umbrella territory this belongs to me and you shouldn't be involved you know to deal ahead buddy we got involved in a flea market believe it or not which was big business in New York I know if you remember and blowing big business right so I had a guy in there who was an accountant and he had two partners one of the partners was it was a drug addict he was selling drugs in a flea market so a guy comes to me he says Mike if you get rid of this guy for me I'll give you a piece of the market I said okay so we chased the guy out of the market about a week later I get a call from John he's Michael you know that kid is with me I said John how is he with you we never your name he's dealing drugs and I supposed to be doing that we threw him out nah he's with me I know him a long time he only made a mistake with the drugs he's not really a drug addict that's okay let's look at his arm you know but anyway so we have this whole big dispute over it you know we had to sit down with the boss and everything so what I said I said look I can never get along with John in business I said so I'm gonna ask him to buy me out knowing that John would never take that you know I don't buy you you don't buy me out I buy you out so at the end of the day did you have a big ego oh yeah really well he really did my I gotta say it I mean look I admire talking negative about him but he had a big ego tell me what is this they didn't mean me yeah it was awful he was but it was fun to be around you know yeah me it was good that way but so he ended up buying me out of market well he took it over and they collapsed about three months later but they probably took everything in the mark and brought it home you know who knows we got a little sketchy for a minute yeah but again it was never like do you ever meet Carlo Gambino I met him when I was a kid who's Carlo died in 75 but I met it with my dad yeah yeah 76 all right yeah but yeah well from the outside from the outside in it can feel like every moment as like as a life and death moment yeah even know is it that way you feel that way when you're in it or you just accustomed to the stakes so you don't think about it that way well you do at times you know you look you always have to be a little bit on edge not I don't know if that's the right word you got to be on your guard always because you know if you make a mistake especially if guys are gunning for you like I said I'm a younger guy I'm making all this money you know like my boss kept wanting me to introduce my guy Larry to him the guy was pawn this week and I would refuse I said look I don't know if this guy is gonna stand up if I bring him around everybody and he goes bad I'm gonna be in trouble for it so I said I'll keep him with me and that was a good excuse so they could never meet him because I know why they want to meet him at some point in time they they take them from me you know they take them away from me but but uh so you always got to be watching yourself you know you can't make a mistake because you pay with your life so you got to be very careful you know I'm that way even told to now I mean I'm walking down the street one of them they can't talk to you for a minute please you know what everybody thought these amenities my gif I'm crazy [ __ ] I never know what's gonna have you look I had a good guy around me that I knew go of my life and he was involved in it and he got involved in a case with the boss's son it was a drug case and so he came to me and he said Mike they're gonna kill me over this I said they ain't gonna kill you they're not gonna he said naw dude you're gonna make me take the weight because the boss's son is not gonna go down for this hmm I said tonally don't worry about it I'm gonna straighten it out before I could straighten it out he ended up killing himself that's how scared he was gonna get K blew his brains out in in a phone booth I was like stunned so I mean you know you you you know you got to be on your guard you can't let your guard down you can't make mistakes that you know could be very costly hmm I'll tell you something that that'll shock you should in 1986 they wrote a article in Fortune magazine 250 biggest and most powerful mob bosses in the country was huge always half the magazine and they featured six of us I was one of the six they had a chart with the 50 of us on there according to rank and wealth and power and all that now I was number 18 I was a youngest guy on the list gadi at that time was number 13 he hadn't been made [ __ ] and don't ask me how they make a list like that never ask from a tax it was all nonsense but it sold a lot of magazines what his with not nonsense out of that list of 50 33 years later 48 and I'm a debt well one of them right now is doing life in prison and I'm the only one that's walking the streets so that's the kind of life that is right 48 guys dead in 33 years that's a lot Wow but then I can I go from it I'm from Brooklyn I go like this I look at it like this I wasn't going nowhere anyway where was I going you know yeah I going anywhere I was gonna dive right on the neighborhood not a [ __ ] bench doing nothing that time I sleep when they're Dyson's just walking up stairs you know what was that doing I had a chance to [ __ ] girls I would've never [ __ ] before my life have live in houses I would have never lived in my house drive cars I've never would've drove in my house be respected by people who would never respect me if I wasn't in this business that's worth my life I give me Mike this that's what's my life there's this rule you know I always say if you're a part of that life and you die of old age and you die free you've really accomplished something there's a stuff life yeah and like you know I mean you're a survivor come on no doubt about that you get through all that stuff yeah I don't knock those guys because I know what they're facing if they don't get involved with this literally I don't I don't want to say stuff but from my perspective this is always gonna be better than this yeah something's gonna be always better than nothing how you gonna know respect people disrespect your mother in front of you your wife your sister in front of you this is nothing no one dare carry your parents bags they walk them upstairs they help them which life do you want yeah he's right look you come into their life they tell you listen wherever you go around the world you're gonna have somebody to back you up nobody's gonna have a screw your mother your sister your brother you got high brothers all over the world how do you a beat with that oh you a big strong guy they could check that real easy they'll need a bully at the bat yeah you know makes sense I I do a lot now with with professional sports yeah I wanted to get to them you interviewed Nick Saban didn't you yeah yeah I'm gonna be there Friday I'll tell you what I do I talked to him about gambling they were very worried about gambling yeah I played football I remember those talks all the time did I who'd you play for I played for Arizona Wildcats for college and then I played for the Jaguars and the Bears oh okay well I I don't think I don't think you came and spoke to us but we definitely had the gambling talk so I was gonna I was curious that's what you talk about with them yeah gambling in relationships with and yeah just give them life lessons you know because lot of these guys think they're invincible yeah so here's what I do I tell I tell it cuz I did over 300 colleges right I call the universe it football team but a lot of times all the student athletes but I said look I want the biggest guys in the front row biggest guys all the line men all the biggest guys yeah and then I'll get through and I'll go to one guy said hey you big guy right six-foot not like you yeah I just stand up there look at me I just stand up were you free three times my size stand up right so they'd get up and I said man I wouldn't mess what you want to feel I said you'd tear me up I said forget about it I said I want to tell you this and I'll put a little line down answered you cross over that line you come into my world and I'll leach I'm gonna make a [ __ ] out of you and I gotta tell you Mike they like look around and it's silence in the room I said now sit down and you sit down and you know because look you got you gotta make an impression with them because gambling did [ __ ] you up man I got to tell you it's I see some of these guys get destroyed over it you know I'm like you know you know I was in the house I was training for a fight when they said they didn't want me to be a lot of strip didn't let me know though so they put this big mansion right and I said to myself wow I like this I like to buy this house I said I was saying I'm how much is this house he said well we don't know right now because we just got it from somebody they had a debt to the hotel you know wow this house its losses a so we have to be tell now there's a fellow in the house mouses right talk to the guy did you buy the house they won't let us out no luckily gambling was never something I was that interested in know what it was not attractive to me as you see my friends you know they're little got a little entertainers right they losing social minds just so meek I try to get my stuff they want to fight me they never had a mean bone in their body uh-huh yeah it's just so pissed the sauce and cooking car you know we had we had guys from beyond from the Jets and you know a lot of the local teams gambling without sure I get a bookmaker call me up this is back in the eighties now and he said Mike so-and-so player he's into us for 200 grams should I cut him off I said why would you cut him off you're writing it down on a piece of paper I says let him get into you for a half a million and then bring him to me and for sure they would so they come in I said I should sit down I said you owe me some money how you gonna pay well you know it's not like today we're making millions back then it was a little difficult I'm a big fan of you I love the team you don't have to pay me now you're gonna pay me five points a week on the morning every Friday you bring it here in cash and if you don't come here we'll send somebody to see you don't worry about it go out and have a blast well they'll do that for five or six weeks and you know what's happening they're running to another town that button with another bookmaker to get more in debt bring them back say what happened you missed last week and that big let me tell you how we're gonna work this out you're a quarterback first three times you get the ball you put in and any other receiver your running back yeah you pick like you put it on the ground too right that's it we'll worry about the rest you do that for me I'll clear the debt that's it wow what are you gonna do yeah oh you want me to do it you want me to do yeah okay cuz really what did they lose entry on a piece of pavement I like to you know you gave him anything you know but and a lot of it I got to tell you about athletes they're not good gamblers no it really not I can't tell you how many of them got in trouble well pleasure seekers yeah big-time pleasure sequined adrenaline me the rush exact oh yeah hold if they know we're in a hole dig give me the rough looking she's so competitive and what is a gamble you it heightens the state oh my god raises the stakes yeah I said I had buddies gambling in hotel rooms on the plane you know to and from games all the guys were [ __ ] guys loved hey I see once this is funny because you know I love Jordan to me still my all-time favorite basketball player but we were at a security meeting what's with the NBA Michaels playing the head of security for Table Tennis they're playing for five bucks right of course Michael wins he wins every day so Horace's got is is a warm-up suit on and Michael says where's my five bucks all right so I don't have any money it's up on my room he looks nice to go up and get it he goes up he comes down he hands Michael the five bucks I witnessed at all and our salute I said Michael five bucks this is yeah this is my trophy I beat you as soon as pocket and walks away I said wow this is intense yeah yeah you know but I get it I really get it yeah I'll be honest yeah I'm not a gambler I didn't have dup but I enjoy a game when I got money on it just you know I get more in oh yeah for sure you know I gotta be honest yeah I know I know guys who love it it's just really good off I mean look at the businesses now that are being legitimized with like draftkings and all the fantasy football it's crazy listen I'll never forget when off-track betting came in to New York right the cops came to us we're gonna put you guys out of business I should really let's see what happens because what happens wolf track betting you got to go in you got to put your money down at the window they don't give you any credit and what happens if do you lose that money you come back to the bookmaker and you because we give you credit and you gamble it actually made us more busy because now more guys were gambling than they were before Wow and you always lose you're gonna lose at some point yeah in fact an elf this is even tough today I don't you can't for some reason I don't know if it's him anything you can tell me people like doing business with them all oh yeah it's exciting no I don't know why because maybe it's been so long they've been accustomed people uncomfortable with the debt right now we're really uncomfortable from last year last what since the since the eighties seventies sixties he's been uncomfortable with the government you know you know why I'll tell you what everybody thinks that we would sit in our social clubs and we would target a certain business didn't happen like that they would come to us why hey we need money we're never gonna snitch on you we can help you we'll protect you they would come to us this whole guest thing the guy came to me I didn't go right it happened like that all the time they come to you head figure this guy's gonna protect me he'll give me money you can't tell the government I pay you next week I promise I pay you next week you can't tell him that he doesn't hear that he doesn't see that he doesn't hear anything uncle so yeah he thinks you and kick you out and takes everything exactly did you ever have to [ __ ] people up for their gambling debts or for their debts in general that wasn't a mob person you know what most of the time you didn't have to do that because just there if they're scared enough that they're gonna come around yeah but every once in a while you had to make an example out of somebody because they were just too wild Oh - well you know the thing is they would they'd lose money with you go to another bookmaker here like we didn't know we're all connected but we all knew what was going on I think they don't yeah yeah yeah but uh you know every once in a while okay guy got out of hand and you how to make an example you know it's just the way it is oh that's you know now that we don't have but what happened that we have neighborhoods that we no one knows anyone know it's not even half a block like a to build of the Little Italy now yeah tell me the missus consumed a goddess club on a mulberry there was Mulberry Ahmad one or the other I went by there it's like a clothing store you know the ravenite so I wanted today I just you know whose club this was yeah I see why don't you have a sign up there John Gotti's former club US you have people standing outside they want to come in and buy I don't want to be associated with that I said why not it's business right you don't even know it's the ravenite when you walk by it I'm saying that this was John's Club nothing Wow crazy do you ever see or talk to have you talked to Giuliani I I met him one time what yeah it was at a was forget the the oil was a football organization action actually that it's out of they have every year they give an award to top coaches and I had spoke there a couple of times and he was the keynote speaker at that time oh yeah it was okay I always tease him I something only got a beat you what did you try yeah and then he fell into themself he throwing things maybe I'm a truck now spin it you know to they ask me I you know the I got a little bit involved in this whole investigation because I knew some of the people around Trump and they asked me if the Trump have a deal with the mob nicest you guys like you would never never land I said he was a developer in New York he had to deal with us like every other developer because we control the unions if you wanted to get anything done you had to come to us now we didn't party with him he didn't come to a social club not that I know if you didn't do it with me but of course he had to deal with us you don't get anything done back then unless you dealt with us what about Coughlin those guy were you friends with those scuffle I knew I liked Nicky I like Nicky yeah he was a good guy I liked what was his reputation the work ever the worst yes it's the worst stuff I like it guy it was always a gentleman around me yeah we were going to unionize the bartenders and waitresses in Atlantic so you can't imagine go to think they don't need this big yeah it was tough guy okay he was tough guy he was he was a man as far as I was concerned anyway well the guy that always terrifies me the most from any mob movie is Joe Pesci in Goodfellas you know these guys like you know yes I did he Joe Pesci is the best mob guy a vault and there's no doubt about it nobody plays it like him yeah he's the best so there are guys like that yeah oh yeah shoot a guy in the foot yeah at a [ __ ] card game yeah well Jesus dude yeah now let me tell you something you know I the guy told Jill used to hang out with the guy that got him on the scene he died I remember you still would be around John Columbus he was the mob guy which guy now I got a really good Joe Pesci around and the show business and stuff or Jimmy Burke no the real guy in the real life well Jimmy Burke and Joe work were very close Jesse OH in real life oh oh yeah you mean the guy did he Frankie Valli no the guy the guy was the head of the crew back then I don't know I don't know that was awful this guy smiley a real Bob I don't know I brought Joe around he's not but he Joe knew him I don't know it's the awesome guy he was awesome guy remember did you up my team if I met them they had all those tough guys around them did you ever meet Mike no we never met no when I was a kid I met Tony Solano yeah did you meet Fat Tony insane cats kill to seek us oh really yeah it was just I didn't know because these guys grew up in the same neighborhood you know I like I'll tell you a story with Tony he gives me a call he like me he gives me close me up one day just come and see me so you know boss of another family closure you go so I go to Harlem I go on his club and you know what Tony looked like a short guy kind of stocky where the fedora and smoke the cigar right out of central casting so it looks at me and he says hey Mike what are you doing with this gas business I said I Tony I'm doing good he should you make money I said yeah Tony no complaints I'm making good he's I got these five mama looks around me they can turn three sentences like that he says you give them a job I said yeah Tony I'll take care don't worry he's what were you doing I said well I got a bunch of gas stations how about I put him in charge of a gas station and they'll watch it for me he said I said but Tony don't let them rob me you know these guys that robbed you I'll cut off the hands there is but you don't have to do that this is but just sees it don't worry yeah yeah he said he said so he said he said don't worry about that I said Oh heshes how much you're gonna pay him so now I'm thinking I don't want to insult the boss right it says Tony that's how about I give me fifteen hundred a week in cash each he says fifteen hundred give them five hundred give me the thousand as you got it dawn oh god he was he was a character I like them though he was he was funny guy but he was he was powerful guy him in a chamber I'm sure there exist though they were all characters but listen I think about this holiday and this is probably a look at the used to from this given generation how do you because they're almost like Kings almost like yeah in human form yeah how do they handle that you know some guys handled it well god I mean Diamond Jim Esposito I read about him he used to make sure he he [ __ ] every virgin before they get married yeah before they get married he had to [ __ ] them he got killed eventually but death was his thing I don't know but it could be probably and you want to I got it there was a guy in our family as a soldier that I was close with there was two brothers they had two killed their father they killed him home father because it was screwing around and other guys daughter or something so one day I'm driving were in Brooklyn I'm driving him home and he gets out of the car and he said don't leave yet I said alright so I'm waiting he goes up to the front doors ringing a bell nobody answers right he comes back he gets in the car he says let's go Isis you're not going in he says nice you don't have a key to your own house he's not got a key I said why don't you go in he said cuz nobody's home I said it's your house he's Michael he says ever since that incident with my dad I can't walk in any place in my house alone I think his ghost is there it scared the hell out of me he said I haven't been alone in my house for 30 years that's how it got to him like that you know we thought like maybe I'm people had been around to kill people if I come they never think it if I ever bring it up this me what the [ __ ] you're talking about you crazy [ __ ] are you talking about Mike and like in the bad with Nick but then what [ __ ] might think you buggin out Nick mmm whoa nothing really happy don't you [ __ ] never happen they're cool you need anything if they okay me money or mine cool nothing I put a most part that's how guys were yeah no that's it yeah I think yeah that's - it's gone you know talk about they don't brag about it don't know my father about it that's true when my father told me from a young age if you and I did something the minute it's done 30 seconds later you asked me about on what you're talking about crazy right what the [ __ ] you talking about my hair yeah they always think somebody's gonna bring fitting-out hey then you say this yeah cuz it's your mouth to get you yeah let's face it exactly its facial so when you go and talk to teams about relationships what do you talk to him about listen I always tell them that straight out you know you are who you hang out with in this world that's it you put yourself in the wrong crowd the wrong element you know you're gonna end up going that no matter how strong you are you can end up going that way at some point or you're gonna be thought to be going that way because of who you're hanging out with so you've got to be a leader and not a follower just stay away from all this and I always tell them to look 6 9 foot for 20 years in my life six nights a week I was in a club always that's where we hung out I never seen good stuff happen after midnight in the club yeah you know everything that's right that's true it's not not at midnight but cook through hooks man yeah Brooks and hooks that's it and they'll ask me question I got told I soon let me ask you question you're standing at a bar you're talking to a girl with a good time some guy walks over and he's not spent rude on you right now you're a tough guy you're not gonna take it what do you do you get the guy shot you knock him out he's on the ground what do you do after that I said what do you do I said let me tell you what you're doing you leave the club get out why because I can't tell you how many times I've seen that happen guy leaves comes back with a gun who comes back and shoot that's absolutely that's gonna happen you know me unless he just knocked out all day on the floor that happened to a guy in Jacksonville right right before I got in there this guy Richard Collier he was a starting right tackle big guy big huge dick say I had 30 40 was at a club Thursday night out with some teammates talking to some girls some dude had a had a what you would think is nothing an altercation words exchanged with some dude later that night they're sitting in their car outside this girl's house dude rolls up shoots into the car drive by shooting the dude paralyzed yeah I mean well told him win lose your drug get out God you don't state sensitive you know and I feel a masculine he's being stripped you just Himalayas yeah that's really the reason why to park got killed it's not the fact because they really didn't [ __ ] the guy up because there were too many people they really couldn't [ __ ] up the kid baby in a million [ __ ] ma but he was humiliated that he was on television that everybody was [ __ ] on top of him and I him million them and that's really why he did it even like Tupac you know but he was heavily based on him getting the basket he was but it appeared like helium stomped out and that's the reason couldn't handle it is that just a primal thing shame humiliation yeah we were so much that even exalt us to success our shame like you talked about like we can't you know as fighters as people I think we we have to we feel this need to earn honor or to gain honor and we get it from the whole time anything and the whole time well we don't realize that we're bored on earth yeah if you're not a [ __ ] thief minions by the time you thin you're not pickpockets snacking team robbing houses you ain't [ __ ] you I'm no respect [ __ ] your mother smack you beat ya ass in front of your parents your parents or some [ __ ] [ __ ] we're strikes shoot yeah every penny I had getting money if you want some respect you know you ain't get no respect you're not a criminal without breaking your house he's right back then it sound rude yeah those are the guys that got all the respect right that was it and you know you looked up to guys like that yeah nobody brought the Japan your family and stuff people knew you little hustle out the industry get money in our neighborhood in Greenpoint we never locked the doors at night there was no crime if there was any crime in the neighborhood it was us yes who did it yeah there was never we never had any issues like that well how do you tell these guys to I says if you're gonna carry a gun do you make sure you know how to use it and be ready to use it it's not a showpiece yeah I carry otherwise don't it'll put you in more trouble yeah you know yeah you see you know you see it with the football guys a lot you know I'll tell you whenever I leave a party I'll tell them listen you got a gambling problem you got an issue email me really I don't need to know your name I don't work for the school I'm not part of enforcement I should email me if I could help you out I will Evan it's not failed yet I did over 300 schools by time I get back to my hotel I've got emails well every single time yeah you know a lot of time on my friend is having a problem right there a basket yeah yeah and it's all different issues so what do you think about the guy that don't succeed the guys that oh dear the guys that get killed by cops are the guys we killed wing warfare what are they what were there now right for Ken oh I can't even I like to touch us to make us really this and that where I want to go Oh I think everybody's here for a purpose I don't think nobody's here yeah you know for us Moses yeah the purpose was somebody's here the purpose why we're all here together now I agree with that I know yeah a lot of things are not by chance no doubt yeah but you know listen how much time did you do I did eight years that's the straight eight no I did five I got out on parole I was out 13 months I violated and they put me back in for another 35 months so and I did I did 29 months and seven days in the hole well if that like I'll be honest that's not easy no you know anybody tells you different that's the objective to really break you make your a game we weren't meant to be so low we were meant to be social yes I mean a lot of guys I mean look I printed I finally really psychologist at that group people yeah and the worse thing yeah you know the only time a guy should be in isolation if he's a danger to everybody else or a danger to himself but as I'm especially these youngsters that they put in it's terrible what they do because they drive yet never looking when I was lights went out at night I heard a lot of moaning moaning his screaming scream me I'll be honest with you what got me through you know I uh I turned that's where I became a person of faith mmm I had a Bible a book sent into me and and my faith and my drive to get home to my family is what you know kept me sane cuz I got I lost about 22 pounds I got sick four times from chicken told me poison from chicken so I said look I'm not gonna bring me anything else bring me cereal bananas and that cup of soup but two years that's all a cup of soup right of love couple I still need him what up dad forget it but uh yeah I couldn't eat anything but you come out of there some books so good huh you could get books [ __ ] again you get newspapers from maybe five days later so you keep I had a Sony Walkman but I didn't want you to want to keep you didn't want to know what's happening outside they keep saying five years and a couple of days later face yes don't know what's going on you know you had a Sony Walkman and the only thing I cared about it used to tell where I was they put the phone in yourself buddy he could talk but the only supposed to give you maybe 15 minutes a day so I used to get to God and he used to put it in my cell at midnight so I can make calls you know on even to us it might don't worry about it leave it but uh you know showers sometimes you got to showers a week they pull you out at all they put you in a shower they lock it sometimes they bring the SH out to yourself click yeah some places they do that but I'll tell you those times they locked me in the shower and then they got some disturb and they leave you in here for three or four hours in there you know [ __ ] yeah it was tough honestly it's a tough bid to get through that but you know you do it got to do it on have a choice you guys seen Pappy oh yeah I was all then undead little Allen yeah yeah what's that recently and yeah commitment yeah well he get what he gets thrown into isolation it's [ __ ] just wall mind man you have to you have to I mean it it seems like you would go crazy and a good putt to his role with he's great movies it's genius did you guys ever see the HBO movie Gotti yeah you saw that right I haven't seen played guy - what was his name I'm on the song yes oh you haven't watched that movie that was that was on a level of God from really well that up Anthony kwaini yeah I was pretty hot you're who - Anthony plenty played - all right yeah what's his name got killed it was a country with cancer yeah I mean he died it cancer yeah O'Neill della Croce brilliant he was brilliant and I watched that movie is one of the best you'll ever see you guys watch it terrific really Dobby I mean I don't know what you have any more questions from God he's kid Sammy's kid they ever talk to you I spoke to junior yes but I was closer with his daughters and his wife and I was with Julie Julie was about 10 12 years younger than me yeah when I was on the street he wasn't coming up yet now junior doing time right now John jr. you know he's I know he was going to a city where they they what they did to him they took him to trial four or five times song jewelry's I mean ridiculous waste of money and time and everything else and I thought the form of killing you to this death yeah I guess this is killing you know stress plus listen I I was on trial 7 months with Giuliani 7 months I get acquitted cost me well over a million dollars I had a million dollar bail between investigators lawyers and plus I had to prepare for the case every day for a year prior to going to trial so they get you one way together yeah what was it that made you say I'm out of this well for me I met a young girl she's now my wife for 35 years and I met her on a movie set I was producing but you know I just realized that the life was over her as we knew it and big and I became too high-profile I knew there was they would never leave me alone until they put me away forever it would never happen so I said let me try to make a break I moved out to California didn't work out I mean you know everybody got upset with me yeah how does that go baby probably can't just well no way no I had a lot of trouble and a lot of trouble Mike my former boss he had got convicted on the mob commission case and he went Persico he just died in March but uh if he was on the street I would have had trouble well he took it very personal when I left very personal he was very upset with me was it even on you right yeah it wasn't something like you can go and have a conversation you know you can't you know I would I wouldn't have left the room yeah you know guys how did you survive I said well you got to understand something one of the dangers of that life is like I said they were walking in a room you don't walk out again so I spent 20 years in that life I knew it intimately well I knew what the guys were doing what they wouldn't undo it so what do I do I move out to California I change my whole lifestyle what do I mean I don't go on any more clubs I don't walk my dog at seven o'clock every morning I don't go to the same restaurant every Tuesday night because I you create a pattern in your life of guys who looking for you okay we now to get this guy so I just really was very disciplined in that and you know it's one thing to walk you in a room okay it's another thing to send a hit squad across the country kill you and get away with it could you go away for life for life for murder so and then you know over a period of years I just outlasted everybody yeah everybody is dead dead or in prison everybody yeah did you have a situation like you know every now and then you be around it might come in he made you nervous oh yeah yeah I've seen you know my antenna was always up so I'm always watch and you know I get em - oh my god that you know and yeah Mike I was in church in Jersey I stayed out in New York for ten years right I go to church I'm speaking at this church in Jersey and I see three guys from my life walk in different crew but I knew them all I said man it's gonna be my first confrontation right so I walk right up to him I said what do you guys want and so we came here to see you I said what do you want to see me about it's like the oval came right back right and he said not we want to hear you speak I said really he said yeah I said okay and then their wives walked in after them so I said okay I said this is legit as far as why they here but right away I got I said this is gonna be a problem you know I mean look I see somebody that you know cuz look I'm out there all the time I'm in public everywhere I speak all over the world yeah you don't know who's in the air who's coming up to you signing books and you see a guy so I'm always kind of leery you know I'm always watching let's put it that way you never think of the guy out there they [ __ ] it for old times yeah for the old play of boom and somebody wants to make a name for himself you're in a club they notice me make a call to New York I walk out in a parking lot boom I'm God you gotta you got to think about it happen so quick huh yeah but I mean I don't live in fear I'm being honest with you I mean you can't live like that but I'm aware let's put it that way yeah that's the fast you know you just have so much effluences on people you know mob life they dedicated a whole museum and they get for it the mob museum yeah it was awesome till you go through it at my ass five years oh wow no way every year that don't know how people come in there oh yeah that's really interesting stuff I mean but and they did a good job with it really it's good they did a really good job but it's a good place it's awesome I have to check that out for sure do you have any questions from this mic what's that Mike Mike you know I told him when I first met her just now I said you know what I have I have a lot of respect for Mike because he's just so honest and sincere I mean I noticed that over the years watching you so many times and I respect him because he's a survivor you know I went through all of this stuff and look when you go through all this stuff in life and you come out you don't have to stay on top but you come out in a position you're in now you got to respect that now I have a lot of respect for that and I'm not just won't smoke I'm being honest um I'm just grateful you know I don't know what's going to happen sometimes you know I was just I was just rerun relapse on drugs an old diesel year ago you know you know it's all about giving up yeah it's submitting to life and I tell someone to see him you see he was a man of faith I think everybody even the atheist when it comes some part of their life to come - well I do believe I'm a believer yeah and you can't die you know if you have any kind of um real logic of who you are it's almost I I don't know but I'm not people think how do you die because you believe in it there's no greater greater being than you did you the greatest force in the world and it's not greater than you did you have to bow - how did you go to your grave thinking down it's hard I'll tell you what my that night that they walked me in that room I was I grew up as a Catholic but I wasn't religious at all but I was praying man you think you're meeting your maker you worry how do you dev you but that's what this is what I want to ask you have you been around like this thing you know and this guy's give me the dice on yeah like we all hanging on the clovers in here we are drinking talking you know it's got a good I'm probably 20 minutes if not an hour and be lucky in an hour huh yeah it's it's it's tough it really is I mean you got to be you got to have kind of an animal nature if it doesn't bother you you know look you know I did things in our life that were very unpleasant but what you do is you know my you kind of step outside of yourself for a minute life yeah yeah beg him DC you [ __ ] smell the [ __ ] when they dining [ __ ] comes out most of the time they don't know what's happening you know if they walked in a room it's boom and that's the end of that you know they don't even know but I mean I've seen guys pretty scared and they walked in the room said everything will be all right Mike and there's my fear that yeah but on the way there it makes everything will be all right yes good you know it's it's it's not a good feeling you know some guys that feel that they know something that happened you feel that do they know something's gonna happen there oh yeah yeah when you get that sense it's it's tough you know you can't mask you I'll kill who you are yeah you can't mask that mother I must be a pig when that happened you must see something's different today you have to feel that feeling you know something that's different today you mean I know you got a Dobby Missy something's different - yeah who knows yeah cus my my mentor is funny he knew Italians and looser mob guy but he always disliked them obviously the only people with Italian people he was mad at that he didn't like that cuts was one of those old Italian point in 1906 like you know those guys from seaboard in the u.s. cus I think so yeah he was the only one pointing at me work yeah but um he's the kind of Italian guy that said like if he looked at these guys one of those guys Pauly D in those guys what's those guys name what's it come on you know Paula Deen those guys who shows you know I'm talking about Jersey Shore Jersey Shore like cuz he's the older guy so he thinks 70 60 or 70 if he feeds Jersey Shore here say they're not Italians uh-huh they're not Italian and so I would never saintly you can send both of us in another Italian in my mind well how does he look the doesn't mean they're not Italians but he had that play Titans had dignity and pride it's just like the worst show on ever was Mob Wives oh my god I saw that it just yeah what was the deal with that Mike they weren't even mob wipes I don't know what they were you know i I've never seen anything like that Milo it was horrible and I have won three or four seasons yeah baby still going no I don't die don't die oh might be I hope not it got me sick did you know this girl no I I knew Sammy Gravano store yeah yeah I know and I knew well Gregg scope is thought it was an in it but we did an interview together once but that was a sick [ __ ] and it was probably like now it's a charade ridiculous I mean look first of all Mob Wives they didn't know anything we never said a word that I'm about anything they do not then you know and girlfriend maybe knows a little bit more but the wife never nothing interesting that you said when those dudes came into the church and you saw their wives you knew that yeah yeah yeah mob guy you know he's always been in the mob like guys like Al Capone and John Gotti and you see John Gotti is neither a DJ I believe I was watching on YouTube and he still to this day she's trying to clean that name everybody's cleaning their name up he'd be [ __ ] all them stop using the name Al Capone then you always always follow them I mean and then when she doesn't then people look at like what the [ __ ] give me I Capone's the [ __ ] man what are you trying to clean up [ __ ] his image up you know that's the people look men men look a guy like Al Capone's [ __ ] you mean what's wrong with him and a boss that's what they that God is a boss what's wrong with him he gave us our ball if I manhood what the [ __ ] you know I I hear more today because of the state of our government you're gonna tell you how many guys said the mob would have run the government I mean to run the country but in them I go absolutely ic- it was better when the mob had Vegas all the old-school guys fada it was better than forget about there's no robbery no gang bangers shootouts out here you can't even you can't even get a meal on a cop you got to spend $100,000 to get a meal nothing when we ran with Natalie backing away by faith definitely got the puff thing back in the day there's so much better but everybody says that so when you guys we never are spills I want the benefit so much better no muggins it's so interesting yeah you're too young to remember but back in the seventies name I love Vegas back then you were free we adapted that you knew not to [ __ ] with nobody you knew right [ __ ] you know you come in with these way Italians don't [ __ ] with them we know that the [ __ ] we'd be fine missing some [ __ ] away you know you never be seen again that kind of [ __ ] Wow well Michael it's been a pleasure huh what do you do my where are you going right now what's that oh no I Thursday I go to Alabama I'm gonna speak it oh yeah that's awesome I got that I got a couple more schools this year dand you know I speak in churches a lot my cab writing books got a book for you about Evan I didn't know I would have brought one but I'm sorry yes I got your address I love it to you and Frenchy and love them you know I'm doing a television show Italians are people from the neighborhood not who will not mob-related but the deep end too but they're not you know in the mall did they say hey you made the right decision or yeah I really feel that way but they can't faint but can't say right I you know yes sir flame before me you know your owned by people so I'm doing that I'm going on tour in in United Kingdom in October so I'll be in Cabo next week I'm gonna go down there for a week to rest voice and that's it you know life is good no complaints still have your challenges and struggles you know but you didn't ask to stop yeah so as you know one date in the next you never know yeah but you think about you must figure out all the ships I said that this really actually exists I think about my life I said wiped all these tough guys on the corner and hanging did this really actually exist it was fun life a lie that's really what happened oh you knew you never seen anybody in a corner no no with a loss or people hanging on in the corner you only knew where to find somewhere you go to the cornet Shack gonna find nobody yeah you don't even let your kids out in the front of the house too late yeah can't believe gunfire I mean honestly that's why I don't do gun scared for my and I'm having a great neighbor I missed anything I have a gunfire on the skin nothing better happen over there Mike so yeah yeah we got to get together out there I would love for sure yeah I live a course three from Fashion Island right over there and I'm in a pile again hell yeah yeah do you golf Mike yeah we go no is that a monarch odd Mahna Mahna Mahna got beautiful you know Nixon one oh that's right you know what my son was telling me but I was out of town he said like seven is that's right at monarch like this for sure about how thoughtfully my wife want to buy a house over there I was beautiful we're in mana cuz monarch is beautiful yeah yeah really nice that whole area how can you beat it hey you like you have horses back in the day they run I had a Trotter know that this thing work you know man abhi I saw a horse in the other day the beautiful sauce in the world I said I want the whole thing that off my dough my cost about so this horse since the most people are gonna buy it I'm gonna get on the web and keep it I'm gonna take it home with me put it in the backyard somewhere what a tenth of an acre where qahal attackee is Arabian horse Arabian horse what's it called come in here both car a car attack e are you gonna tell you right now [ __ ] up right now because I'm fall in love with this hell I don't know what my dried horses no love with it yeah it's the oldest horse breed to ever live where they want for you know six only ten thousand dollars but it's let them to be a bit yeah good stage I'm livin in Tustin right around here we got horse they told me I to close by was gonna be like two million dollars there's a good rise find out for you huh yeah love that you're gonna be riding it I'm a ain't gonna hold it kiss it Walker I want to get it I want to get a young baby around six months or something it's beautiful horse it's beautiful look it's born like that with metallic fur it's born like they're all of them as metallic for firm look at the ish and they don't have no septimius fat no they're all muscle there's no feather you know thoroughbred have fat and they burn the fat of this have no fat on it well no fat nobody's fat was well if total muscle 100 the same muscle understand incredible that's the next thing of this is my next love I love it they do you have a horse ranch I don't know but on our property we could put a horse man yeah well you you get that horse you're gonna be one around it all the time well that's all I want to I want to do you want to be around am but I think it we should get to yeah you have to be a little serene oh yeah I've never been like crazy look at this [ __ ] man see the metallic fur fur on them I never been this big and they got 12 packs look at him look no [ __ ] fat golly that is beautiful there's 7,000 years old wow that's amazing a cult techie and all day I never heard of it they fought against the I'm the Russian Empire and the Russians beat them and so they took all the horses it's amazing Mike you have to take it well F to do a hot box and at the horse ranch yeah I like to do that I'd be joke I don't even know why I never wanted to have never thought about I was didn't think about race Mike he's won a pathetic when did you see it three days ago well he called while I was on a YouTube and I saw this thing's made settings more beautiful animals in the world let's check this [ __ ] out I'm animal guys that fight I've seen the white minding their stuff and then I realized the way mining them from nature perspective is interesting is a mistake huh something so beautiful is a mistake so God made a mistake from that beautiful and so we went to the horse and I thought a horse and I said holy [ __ ] I'm that that one I wanted a [ __ ] I never had a horse never was crazy about horses any I'm what that well it's all mr. beauty no net all the calls to it and everything and then I gotta go to this plate come Turkestan where they originate from you're going there yeah is that your next trip there's a couple weeks is it not I'll make it part of it okay before it gets too cold yeah it's awesome them great time well thank you so mad you found me of it yeah okay that might really glad you came yeah we got to get together I could I get my Frenchie we'll meet up out there absolutely yeah I know who he is yeah Mike I'll take us out for watching and listening everybody be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel hot boxing with Mike Tyson check out our website hot boxing podcast calm until next time I'll never Britain I'm Mike Tyson I'm Mike Francie's do you want anybody know where you at talk to you it's okay I'm all over YouTube Michael Franzese calm I'm on Facebook Twitter the whole bit so you you want to get in touch with me you don't have to go through Mike and come directly yeah hit him direct alright everybody right here okay [Music] [Music]

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Views: 6,582,038

Rating: 4.8803201 out of 5

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Id: lNlR3lfnLR8

Length: 93min 13sec (5593 seconds)

Published: Thu Apr 02 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/RavensWorldOrder]

Franzese seems to say the same exact things in every interview.

Edit: He says some things that I’ve never heard him say before. He said he knew and liked Nicky Scarfo.