Malcolm & Martin: Intersecting Visions of Justice

>> Hello everyone. Thank you so much for coming out tonight. Welcome. Assalamualaikum. We are delighted to have you with us this afternoon. My name is Jumanah Saadeh. I'm a staff member at the University of Michigan Biological Station and part time grad student. Assalamualaikum. >> And last year I served as the president of the Muslims Students Association. And I'm a recent U of M alum. >> So, before we get started, I do want to state that while we were unable to have CART services provided for the lecture in real time, the live stream is being closed captioned. And the event which is being recorded will also have closed captioning. And we do have ASL interpreters present today. Thank you again so very much for being here tonight. This event could not have been possible without the support of so many people and by the grace of God. It would take too long to name each person. But I do need to acknowledge a few key individuals. Dr. Debbie Willis of Rackham Graduate School who nurtured our initial idea. Dr. Lumas Helaire who patiently advised us throughout the planning process. Our guest speakers Dr. Su'ad Abdul Khabeer and Stephen Ward who consulted with us on the event and helped it to blossom. Of course, to our keynote speaker Imam Omar Suleiman for flying out midweek of this exciting and important event on allyship and social justice. And last but certainly not least our families who supported us over the past year as we made this event come to fruition. We are so grateful to the village that it took for making this event happen. Thank you to all for coming out for this event. And we are very delighted to have a MLK symposium event outside the traditional months. Thank you also to our sponsors especially the Office of Diversity Equity and Inclusion, the Office of Academic Multicultural Initiatives, and the Ross School of Business to name a few. We had over 30 units from across campus donate funds so that this event could happen. I - the full list of sponsors is listed on the screen. And also, on the backs of your programs. Please join me in giving them a tremendous round of applause. [ Applause ] >> When Jumanah and I attended a similar lecture last year, taught by Imam Omar we were captivated by his presentation on the depth and complexity of the dialog between Malcolm and Martin. We both immediately saw the benefit of bringing this discussion on movement building, to the University of Michigan. We're especially excited to honor Malcolm and Martin's unique ties to Michigan. And to this very campus. Malcom X spent much of early childhood in Michigan and later returned on several occasions to visit the Nation of Islam's Temple One in Detroit. We extended an invitation to members of that community which is now known as the Masjid Wali Muhammad but they were sadly not able to come due to last minute emergency. Dr. King visited the University of Michigan in November. >> We're here. >> Oh. Well they're here. Masha'Allah. >> Give them a round of applause. [ Applause ] >> Dr. King visited the university of Michigan in November of 1962 where he gave a speech just behind us in Hill Auditorium during the height of the civil right movement. In so many ways our campus, our state and our country have been shaped by the long moral arcs of these two men, their families, and the movements they pioneered. So, we would be remiss to not mention these ties. We also want to take the opportunity to inform you all of the Islamophobia -- of the MSA's ongoing efforts with the Islamophobia Working Group around Ramadan 2020+. In April 2020 the MSA and IWG will be hosting open seminars for both Muslin and non-Muslin students. So, please keep an eye for the schedule which will be released during the winter semester. And we hope that you all will join us God willing for these exciting community events. We would also like highlight two events happening through the Arab and Muslin American Studies Department. On Thursday September 26th there will be film screening A Muslims Guide to Marriage. And on Wednesday October 9th AMAS will be hosting an interact - and intersectional discussion titled Latin X and Muslim. So, now I'm delighted to introduce Dr. Lumas Helaire who's our mentor and who is serving as the moderator for this evening. Dr. Lumas has over 15 years of experience in designing and developing programs for the university - for the university community. He oversees the operations for the Office of Academic Multicultural Initiatives and directs several programs as his role as associate director. He also chairs the University of Michigan's Martin Luther King Jr. Symposium of which this is an official event. So please join me in giving a warm welcome to Dr. Lumas. [ Applause ] [ Background Noise ] >> Thank you. Greetings everyone. >> Greetings. >> How you all feeling this evening? >> Good. >> Let me just say I love that we are here, that felt good to hear the ownership of space. I would like to say thank you to Jumanah and Mohammad for inviting me to work with you on this project. And thank you to the Muslim Student Association for this work on this event. Almost, almost a year ago Jumanah and Mohammed came to me enthused about bringing Imam Omar Suleiman to campus as part of the symposium. And I applaud you Jumanah for the work that you put in over this summer. If you ever done an event you know. But if you have not done an event let me let you know it is not an easy thing to coordinate academics because we have busy schedules. And then to get everyone in this room and get everyone excited. And she put in a lot of thought, a lot of effort and she, she checked in with a lot of people to make sure this event could happen. And she is the one who spearheaded this with the support of Mohamad and myself. So, please give Jumanah and Mohammed a hand. [ Applause ] >> I'm also appreciative to Dr. Su'ad Khabeer and Dr. Steven Ward for the wisdom to include a dialog with this lecture to ensure that black and non-Muslim and female voices are also lifted in this discussion of Muslim and non-Muslim black males. Again, I serve as the associate director in the Office of Academic Multicultural Initiatives in the chair of the University of Michigan's annual Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Symposium. It's a pleasure to recognize this lecture and dialog as the first symposium event of the school year. Though most of the events will occur between January and February acknowledging this one as part of the symposium makes the point that the work of promoting social justice is not a seasonal affair. Indeed, social justice work is constant, multifaceted, multigenerational. It's non-linear and always involved - evolving in our understanding of what it means, who it involves, and where it takes us. OME is just one of many cosponsors of this event. OME is cosponsoring this event as part of our newest initiative called The Particularities a term borrowed from woman and scholar Emily Towns. One of the major challenges in American society is that the characteristic of the dominant group is constructed as the universal and only standard while other groups are marginalized. And we know this. The classic demonstration of this is when history and social studies classes are dominated by European and European American history. And whenever the stories any one group are left out, decentered or distorted it leaves us all struggling to connect with one another struggling to see one another. And while there has been acknowledgement that we can and must do more on our - in and out of our schools. The reality is that there are those who resist the inclusion of all people. The particularities initiative is promoting the simple notion that to understand any story we must do - to understand any story we must do it in relation to other stories. Before we can get to the universal, we must bring attention to the particular stories we have left out. So, OME is collaborating with student orgs, colleges and departments to promote the stories of various groups traditionally minimized in the dominant narrative. And I'm excited that tonight's entree into a particularity is about how we better understand Malcolm story and Martins story as they are discussed in relation to one another. Like many people Malcolm and Martin were presented to me s two giants with opposing strategies for a similar aim. The liberation of black people or the advancement of black people. Yet, as I read their works and listened to their speeches for myself, I began to attend to a broader and richer narrative for each of them for all of us. There is something special in each of their stories and something enlightening when these two independent and largely unconnected other then time and context are viewed together. So, as Imam Suleiman walks us through this exploration, we are all bound to be challenged and inspired to a reexamination in discussing Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. in intersecting visions of justice. After Imam Suleiman's 20 well 25, 35-minute lecture we will be joined by two UM professors Dr. Su'ad Khabeer and Steven Ward who's introduction I will give at that time. Following the dialog, we will pen it up for a structured Q and A with the audience. And there, there are index cards going around. There are index cards going around for you to write your questions to submit for the Q and A. So, now for the introduction of Imam Omar Suleiman. He is an American Muslim leader, civil rights activist and speaker. Suleiman is a New Orleans native who began his tenure as a community leader in his home town and oversaw the hurricane Katrina relief efforts through ICNA Relief a non-profit relief fund. He has since risen to the national scale and is recognized and respected throughout the Muslim and activist community. He was recently invited to serve as a guest Chaplin for the U.S. House of Representatives by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson. Suleiman has focused his energy on a number of significant issues including accessibility, disability, Black Lives Matter, the refugee crisis, the Muslim ban, and the detained children and families at the borders. He is the founder and president of the Yaqeen Institute for Islamic Research a think tank focused on instilling a sense of pride and conviction in Muslims in an era where many are insecure or ashamed and or are questioning due to Islamophobia. He is also a professor of Islamic studies at Southern Methodist University. And as I understand it in just a few months he will complete his doctoral work and will be adding doctor to you title? Congratulations on that. [ Applause ] >> So, Imam Suleiman thank you for your acceptance from the Muslim Students Association invitation to speak to our community. We look forward to your insight and your openness. Everyone please join me in giving a warm welcome to Imam Omar Suleiman. [ Applause ] [ Background Noise ] >> Alright. See if I can figure out how to get to the PowerPoint. There we go. I think I moved something. Assalamualaikum. Peace be with you all. Bismillah al-rahman al-rahim. In the name of God the most compassionate, the most merciful. [ Background Noise ] >> I shouldn't have done that. Okay. While we're waiting on that I just want to thank Dr. Helaire for the introduction. Thank the all of the associations and organizations and departments that were involved in putting this together. I am deep. [ Laughter ] [ Applause ] >> Alright. I might need you to stand right there. [ Laughter ] [ Background Noise ] [ Laughter ] [ Background Noise ] >> See if that works. Yeah. [ Background noise ] >> Alright. Great. [ Background Noise ] [ Inaudible ] >> Alright. [ Applause ] >> Alright let's try this again. Assalamualaikum. >> Okay. Peace be with you all once again. I want to thank the volunteers and all of the different departments and everyone that came together to put this even together. This is not an easy thing to coordinate. And from probably anything I've ever done I've never seen anything as seamlessly coordinated as this event. So, I want to thank once again the organizers, the volunteers for putting this together. I want to thank my distinguished panelists who I'm looking forward to being with. A friend and someone that I admire Dr. Su'ad Abdul Khabeer and Dr. Steven Ward who I had the chance to just spend a few minutes with backstage. But I am sure we will be friends after this event. I hope. Unless he takes great exception to something I say in the presentation. But I'm really looking forward to the opportunity to actually exchange ideas and to talk about what this means for us today. So, let me start off by saying a few things. A few disclaimers. Number one, I am not the most qualified person to talk about this. In fact, both of my co-panelists could do a much better job probably giving this presentation. So, I openly invite both of my distinguished panelists to challenge anything within the presentation and to provoke a discussion about where we go forward. I also teach a course - a graduate level course on Islam and the civil rights movement. And anyone who tries - who knows what it's like to condense hours and hours of presentation into a few minutes knows how difficult this can be. So, I'm going to do my best to try to condense as much as possible into this presentation and still do it justice. With my main goal being to provoke a discussion and to challenge all of us. I'm not so much looking to talk about the legacies of these two great men. Both of whom I'm unworthy to represent. But more so to challenge ourselves with their legacies. And what their legacies mean for us today. I had the opportunity again to come here last year and to talk about the, the life of Malcolm X of El Hajj Malik El Shabazz rahimahullah, Hajj. Just the last year or so just focusing on those last 10 months of his life. And one of the main objectives of that was to actually debunk the idea that Hajj was a lightbulb moment and that there isn't a complex story to Malcolm and that his entire life's journey is not important to that last year in particular. And it was one of the most difficult things that I've ever had to do to teach it here in Detroit. The home of Detroit Red and to teach in the presence of distinguished members from Masjid Wali Muhammad. May Allah bless them for their legacy and their history n this community. And it was an honor to have the members form the Masjid Malcolm's home community. And a Masjid that means so much to the history of Islam in America that were their present. Of course, Imam Twhidi, may Allah bless him, who came at the end of that and spoke. Malcolm flew to Detroit. Some of you might not know this. Flew to Detroit and spoke literally four hours after his home was firebombed, a week before his assassination. Because Malcolm did not take a break from his, from his work. And he felt like his time was short. And of course, it's important for us to remember that whether we're talking about Martin or Medgar or Malcolm all of them died in their 30s. And so, we have so much to gain from them. And so much to extend from the incredible things that they did. So, I want to start off with this image that you see up here actually correlates with a quote. Of course, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. went to India. Many people don't know that. Actually, studied Gandhi and philosophy and tried to inculcate that into his nonviolent strategy here in The United States of America. And Malcolm's - Malcolm and Martins political philosophies were not necessarily drawn from their religious teachings. They were not in conflict with their religious teaching as they saw, as they saw in their understanding and their calculation. I would argue the same. But at - but they drew their political philosophies from people that they admired from movements and trends that they thought spoke to the time and spoke to their circumstances. And there's a quote here that I'd like to start with because it provokes a discussion. "What is a revolution need? Does it need Malcolm and Martin? Or does it need Malcolm or Martin? Was one of them right and the other one wrong? Did one of them have it figure out and the other one greatly misguided and leading the people astray?" Collin Morris who wrote a book called Unyoung, Uncolored, and Unpoor. Wrote, "I am not denying passive resistance it's due place in the freedom struggle or belittling the contribution it of men like Gandhi and Martin Luther King. Both have a secure place in history. I merely want to show that however much the disciples of passive resistance detest violence they are politically impotent without it. American Negros needed both Martin Luther King and Malcolm X just as India had to have both Gandhi and Nehru." And I'm not going to talk about Indian politics right now. Simply the idea that when you talk about any freedom struggle, we usually do ourselves a disservice when we try to limit it to one person. Malcolm had a large group of people starting with Dr. Betty Shabazz and his family around him. Martin Luther King Jr. is Dr. Coretta Scott King in that family. That incredible family. And the people that were behind both of them. The movement is greater than those two men. And at the same time the movement needed those two men. And we often do ourselves a disservice by trying to create the perfect hero which I'll get to at the end of this discussion, that rises victorious above the rest and had the perfect diagnosis. And the perfect role to play. And so, this is the picture that we come to. It's on the flyer. This is a picture that deeply haunts America because it's the only time these two men actually had the opportunity to meet. And as they were coming together frankly, the forces that wanted to see black liberation fail could not afford a Malcolm and Martin coming together and actually working together on a strategy, with their differences of opinion, but complementing one another. And moving the entirety of the civil rights movement forward. So, this was a picture that haunts us because of the possibilities. It also haunted those that wanted both of these men killed because of the possibilities. And for us it was just it was just a - it's just a, it's just a few minutes that they met on Capital Hill. And accidental meeting. And you see them smiling together. But that is not the reality of how their lives actually unfolded. But it is the potential of what it would have looked like. Dr. James Cone who wrote the book Martin and Malcolm; A Dream or a Nightmare, which is probably one of the most important books to understand their two, their two legacies and how they, how they compliment one another. He said, "King was a political revolutionary. Malcolm was a cultural revolutionary. Malcolm changed how black people thought about themselves." And so, if you look at what each one of them brought. In some ways they were unique. Dr. James Cone continues, and he said "Malcolm tried to liberate black people from hating themselves. Martin tried to liberate white people from hating black people." And again, the tragic irony as Dr. Cone points out is that the trigger that was pulled on Martin was a white hand. The trigger that was pulled on Malcolm was a black hand even though there were many hands on that trigger. But the fact that both of them were trying to liberate, liberate their people or liberate a people from things that were cancerous. Not just to them but to the entirety of society. Malcolm's upbringing and Martin's upbringing is often spoken about as the tragedy versus comfort. Meaning Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. could have chosen to live a relatively comfortable life. He was going to be a PhD in something. He could have lived a you know a comfortable life. Not had to involve himself in the civil rights movement but chose to do so anyway. And Malcolm X of course came from a tragic background and he could have resigned himself to what usually would happen to someone in Malcolm's upbringing, but he refused. But what we don't talk about as well is the different political and religious influences that took place early on. And so, if you look at the Garvey-ite influence on Malcolm X and understand that his parents came from that background. And how that factored into Malcolm's political thought. And comparing the UNIA of Marcus Garvey the Universal Negro Improvement Association to the NAACP which was more in line with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s thought. People will often say that Malcolm was addressing an northern civil rights movement reality. Martin was addressing a southern civil rights reality. And of course, there's this quote form Dr. James - from James Baldwin who said "That as concerns Malcom and Martin I watched two men coming from unimaginably different background whose positions originally were poles apart, driven closer and closer together. By the time each died their positions had become virtually the same position. It can be said indeed that Martin picked up Malcolm's burden, articulated the vision which Malcolm had begun to see. And for which he paid with his life and that Malcolm was one of the people Martin saw on the mountain top." I want to address the Muslims specifically here as well. Often we critique America for sanitizing and restricting Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to his I Have a Dream speech. Muslims do the same with Malcolm and Hajj at times as well. Restricting both of them to a singular experience and then creating a narrative out of that singular experience without taking into consideration the collection of experiences before and after. And their full development is an injustice to both of their legacies. So we don't freeze Malcolm and Hajj nor do we free Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. in his I have A Dream speech. And if you're going to talk about both of these men one of their most incredible accomplishments is their ability to challenge themselves, to grow. Growth. They were not fixed in all of their positions. They were willing to be challenged and to challenge themselves. And so, when you read a quote from Malcolm for example who says, "That I want to be remembered as someone who was sincere. Even if I made mistakes, they were made in sincerity. If I was wrong, I was wrong in sincerity." He also said, "There's no better than adversity, every defeat every heartbreak, every loss contains it's own seed. Its own lesson on how to improve your performance next time. All of our experiences fuse into our personality. Everything that ever happened to us is an ingredient." He also said, "That children have a lesson all adults should learn. To not be ashamed of falling but how to get up and try again. ". Malcom was not ashamed of being confronted by the truth. He welcomed it. And the same is true for Martin Luther King Jr. Malcolm did not insist on positions that he did not find to be sincerely the truth. Martin did not insist on a comfortable position for himself. And accept being the hero, the figure that was acceptable enough to make America comfortable, while Malcolm would be thrown under the bus and murdered. Each one of them confronted themselves. And allowed for themselves to be confronted. One of the things that's often positive is that Malcolm is the violent counterparts to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. If you hear about Malcolm in school, if you're even taught about him, you're taught that he's militant, that he's violent, that he's angry. That he was ineffective. And you would think that Malcolm organized the gang and walked around the streets of Harlem and took things by force. The problem with that narrative other then it being just a completely false. Is that it takes away Malcolm's points for actually not committing to nonviolence out of principle. Why didn't Malcolm commit to nonviolence if Malcolm was not violent himself? Malcolm said, "I don't favor violence. If we could bring about recognition and respect of our people by peaceful means, well and good. Everybody would like to reach his objectives peacefully. But I'm also a realist. And the only people in this country who are asked to be non-violent are black people." And so, Malcolm's points was the point that Jessie Williams made that if you don't have an established critique of the oppression you don't get to critique the resistance. It's not fair to burden an oppressed people a people that are being targeted with commitments to nonviolence and those types of things when they are the victims of violence. Malcolm did not favor violence. Malcolm did not welcome violence. Malcolm found it hypocritical to ask black people to be nonviolent when they were the recipients of violence in America, state sponsored violence here in The United States of America. And so, when you talk about the ballot or the bullet as one scholar said, "Malcolm used the threat of the bullet to secure the ballot." But Malcolm did not want vigilante violence in the streets. He did not seek that. And Malcolm's calling out America on its hypocrisy was true because the only time America ever passed gun legislation was when? When the Black Panthers got armed. When the wrong people had guns. That's when America decided to act against guns. And so, this idea that Malcolm is the violent counterpart. And Martin is the peaceful counterpart. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. as we mentioned early on in talking about Gandhi and Nehru. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. knew the role that Malcolm and that side of the movement actually played. He said that, "The nation waited until the black man was explosive with fury before stirring itself even to partial concern. Confronted now with the interrelated problems of war, inflation, urban decay, white backlash and a climate of violence it is now forced to address itself to race relations and poverty. And it is tragically unprepared. What might once have been a series of separate problems, now merge into a social crisis of almost stupefying complexity. I am not sad that black Americans are rebelling. This was not only inevitable, but eminently desirable. Without this magnificent ferment amongst negros, the old evasions and procrastinations would have continued indefinitely." And he said he said in another speech he said, "But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without at the same time condemning the contingent intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative then to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say that a riot is the language of the unheard and what is it America has failed to hear?" And so, if you listen to the content the substance of those two messages, they're not necessarily in tension with one another. The idea was that the burden should not be placed on the African American as they were the greatest victims of state violence here in this country. There's also this idea where you see the strategies coming together of shaming America into compliance. Dr. Martin Luther king Jr. one of my favorite books of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was On the Side of My People, which is fascinating that he wrote in his mid-20s. I'm sorry not. I'm sorry. Stride Towards Freedom. On the Side of My People is a different book. Stride Towards Freedom Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. talked about the strategy. And this was of course in the wake or in the context of the Montgomery bus boycott. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said that, "America would not be activated." There were plenty of people that were sitting at home that said that they weren't okay with what they were seeing. But they were not necessarily moved to actual action. They didn't like it, but they would turn the TV off. And it wasn't necessarily enough to activate them. And he said that. "People would not move until they saw black men and black women having their heads busted open with police clubs in the streets." Hence exactly what you saw in Selma. That America had to be moved to a point of why we can't wait to a place of urgency. Not necessarily a place of disgust. You could not simply say that this is not right. But you had to actually be moved to action. And Martin understood that America had to see images. And America had to be moved to appoint where it would be uncomfortable with itself being at home. I can tell that I thought about this in the Muslim ban. When the Muslim ban was legislated there were many people that came to the airports. And they had - some of them had never met a Muslim before and had - didn't maybe even have a particular good opinion of Islam, but felt like thy couldn't sit with themselves with such a blatant violation of our so called religious freedom here in The United States. And our liberty here in The United States. So, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. of course it's not an exact analogy wanted to see people move to action. Malcolm also understood that America did not want to be shamed on the global stag. And here's the thing, slavery did not end because America suddenly came to a realization that it was wrong. Okay? America's foreign policy was being complicated by the images of segregation and the images of police brutality that were being broadcast around the world from here. Back in the days when we were at odds with the Soviets, they used to put images of segregation and police brutality as a sign of how backwards America actually was to posit communism as a superior way. When Malcolm goes around the world and shames America and actually takes the strategy of going to Africa in particular and asking African nations to prosecute The United States of America on the global stage, it complicates America's foreign policy. Because America cannot act like it is morally superior to the world and then use that to justify all sorts of unprincipled intervention. And so, you have Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. of course working at the domestic level with Selma, with what's taking place in the south. And you have Malcolm actually going to Africa and Malcolm of course by that time after Hajj had a status in the entirety if the Muslim world Africa and otherwise and using that to put America on trial on the global stage. And sitting in you know sitting in the spot that a head of state would sit at the OAU. At the Organization for African Unity. Malcolm actually sat there amongst all of the heads of states and the premier's and the presidents and the prime ministers from African nations. And Malcolm said that, "You have to do something about The United States, because The United States is guilty of war crimes and genocide against African Americans, against black people here at home." That complicated deeply America's foreign policy. And there's a book that I'd recommend everyone to read. It's called Cold War Civil Rights, Race and Image of American Democracy. By Mary Dudziak. Cold War Civil Rights where she talks about why America actually took - why the government took steps to seemingly address segregation and racial inequalities in this country only to the extent that it allowed America, that it allowed The United States of America to maintain a certain standing globally. What does this mean in terms of internationalizing the issue of the black American? Well for one Malcolm was always an internationalist. He was an internationalist even in prison. And one of the tragedies of Malcolm is that he was surveilled by the FBI from 1950 until the day of his death. Because in 1950 he wrote a letter to President Truman from his jail cell in opposition to the Korean War. And because of that he was called a communist. He actually self-labeled the communist at that point in 1950 to be fair. And in that climate in America was placed under surveillance. And of course, as his profile grew the surveillance was only going to be expanded on Malcolm. So, he was always an internationalist. Malcolm was widely recognized as, as the first civil rights leader to really home in on the Vietnam War. And the nature of the Vietnam War to connect colonialism to connect what was taking place in Vietnam to what was taking place here in The United States with the black American. This picture, this famous picture of Malcolm at his assassination. If you look right behind him there is a Japanese a Japanese woman by the name of Yuri Kochiyama who is a great civil rights activist. And she was a Japanese civil rights activist or a human rights activist that was seeking justice after the nuclear bombings. After the atomic bombs that were dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima. And she was someone who found in Malcolm a person that would uplift her cause. Malcolm did not see that uplifting other people's causes diminished his own. In fact, he saw the importance of connecting those causes. So, Malcolm would champion causes that were not necessarily convenient. That were not necessarily - that would give no mobility to his specific cause. To liberate his own people. But instead he saw that was taking place at the global stage of colonialism and what he called European colonialism and American dollar-ism. Malcolm saw that it was the same system that was wreaking havoc on the world that was wreaking havoc on the inner cities here in The United States of America. And so that's why you'll find Malcolm in 1964 going to Gaza, going to Palestine, going to the Han Uniz refugee camp. And uplifting the issue of Palestine. Being the first black leader to uplift the issue of Palestine. And he actually penned an essay of the - about the occupation and about the world turning a blind eye to the injustices that were done to the Palestinian people. And he used a profound a profound expression. Malcolm said that, "Often what happens is that an indigenous people are taken of advantage of. They are buried by all sorts of injustice and tyranny. And then years later another generation comes and doesn't know how to distinguish what took place and simply sees two people's fighting each other. And the naturally comes to the conclusion that one people is regressive. And the other people is not. And doesn't understand the origins of conflict." And he said, "That's essentially what was done to the entire continent of Africa." That the average American - American would look to Africa and would see all of the coups and all the rebellions and all the warfare. And would come to that type of conclusion. That these are a people that need to be to use the president's language tamed. And can only be governed with brutality domestically and globally. And here's the expression Malcolm used. He said, "So you clip the birds wing and then you blame it for not flying as high as you." So, you put people in horrible states and then you count on the forgetful memory or the or the way that that memory is then told or cast in the future. Malcolm said that, "We have to elevate the struggle from a civil rights struggle to a human rights struggle." And his last speech at the London School of Economic in Europe was titled The Oppressed Masses of the World Cry Out For Action Against the Common Oppressor. In Malcolm's last speech at Columbia University he said that, African Americans so sort of internationalizing the struggle now. Was not just as far as, as far as you know the Palestinians or the Vietnamese or the Japanese. No, Malcolm saw it as much broader than that. And of course, Malcolm also had a focus on Africa. He was a pan-African. And some scholars have even mentioned a graduation of sorts from black nationalism to pan-Africanism particularly in his later thought. Malcolm tasked both African nations as well as African Americans to connect with one another. He said that, "African Americans must help Africa in the struggle to free itself from western domination, because no matter where the black man is he will never be respected until Africa is a world power." I met Chadwick Bozeman and I told him I said, "You know Malcolm was the first one that thought about Wakanda. But he thought about it more so on the kill monger probably in the kill monger conception." But you know but that idea of Africa as a continent being strong, being restored to its full dignity and honor. And that having worldwide implications where you usually see anti-black racism penetrating everywhere from north America to the middle east as well. Right? Europe and all over the world. In Asia. So, it was important for Africa to be restored. Malcolm also said, "African nations need to take action against The United States for crimes committed against the American negro in The United States." He wrote on his - from his last trip to Africa. And Malcolm spent the last 10 months of his life you know the majority of it was actually was international. Malcolm said, "I want to dismantle the entire international system of racial exploitation." John Lewis and Donald Harris were sent at the time by the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee to Africa to meet Malcolm on his second trip to try to fully grasp the person that Malcolm had become. That any country he went to in Africa he was usually addressing the parliament at this point, a president or a prime minister. And there was a wave that followed everywhere that he went. Meaning he was being - he was successful in lifting up the condition of the black man here in America and removing that barrier and that isolation between black people in America and the continent of Africa. Dr. King of course takes on Vietnam later on. And this is what James Baldwin was spoken about - what spoke about with Dr. James Cone speaks about in his book. From a political perspective King could have rode a wave in his last few years. And accepted a status of one who is never too dangerous who stayed within the realm of prescribed protest. and did not shake the establishment. Malcolm was assassinated in '65. King could have stuck to a script. He would have been more popular. He would have retained not just popularity in white America, but he would have retained popularity with black America as well. By King taking on the Vietnam War he lost a ton of support. The NAACP distanced itself from king. And you know a dear friend of mine Reverend Dr. Michael Waters always reminds people in Dallas that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. could not find a single black church that would give him a pulpit after 1965 when he actually came to Dallas. Where did this come from? Moral conviction. He said, "I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world my own government." And if you read Kings sentiments of antiwar it started with critiquing how much - if you look at '66 to '68. It started with critiquing how much money we were spending on war as opposed to here in the inner cities in America. Then it moved onto something else. You start to see King's tone shift towards the hypocrisy of sending black men off to their death in Vietnam to fight for liberties that they would not enjoy here at home. Some of the famous lines of Mohammed Ali when he resisted the draft. Then something happens in the latter half of '67 into '68. King starts talking about it from the perspective of the Vietcong themselves. "The babies on the other side of those bombs." That's not a popular stance to take because ultimately when you challenge America as a patriot you still need to challenge it from the perspective of the benefit of America not what is morally principled. Not what is a, not what is a - the right stance to take. And Dr. David Garrow he said that, "It would be a mistake to read Dr. King's speech Breaking the Silence as merely an antiwar statement. It reflected his widening world view that chronicled domestic poverty and military adventurism overseas. Infected the wealthiest nation on earth just as much as deep rooted racism." King said that, "If America's poison autopsy was to be opened one day, Vietnam would be prominent." We would see what was done with Vietnam. And I want to just give you this one quote by him. He said, "A genuine revolution of values means in the final analysis that our loyalties must become ecumenical rather than sectional. Every nation must now develop and overriding loyalty to mankind as a whole in order to preserve the best in their individual societies." Think about what Dr. King would say if he heard America first with all of its implications. That this commitment needs to be a greater commitment. Michelle Alexander wrote an article in the New York Times this year earlier this year called It's a Time to Break the Silence on Palestine. Also sort of building off of King's philosophy pointing to the fact that the student nonviolent coordinating committee in 1968 started to address the problem the Palestinians as well. And started to broaden its perspective on that. Alexander said, "King argued when speaking of Vietnam that even when the issues at hand seem as perplexing as they often do in the case of this dreadful conflict, we must not be mesmerized by uncertainty. We must speak with all the humility that is appropriate to our limited vision. But we must speak." How much time do I have left by the way? [ Background Noise ] >> Ten minutes? Okay great. Now, with that being said in the process of uplifting because I'm going to check - we have to challenge ourselves with Dr. King and with Malcolm. In the process of uplifting other causes and them recognizing the international nature of this and making these connections. We cannot dilute their initial cause, their primary cause. And the severity of the crimes that have been committed and continue to be committed against black people in America. No other cause should seek to appropriate it. Instead it should honor it. There was a popular statement I want to say for or five years ago. Muslim is the new black. No. Absolutely not. And less we forget that Malcolm here in Michigan. I'm sorry it wasn't in this university. It was at Michigan State University. I'll say it really low. But January 23rd, 1963 there was an MSA Egyptian student, not to call out the Egyptians. Sorry. There are wonderful Egyptians around Malcolm too. But there was an MSA student from Egypt that started to ague with Malcolm about his approach. About his doctrine. And Malcolm responded and said, "Listen we are brothers. But an Egyptian who comes to America should realize the problem confronted by black people in this country. And when you see us being chased by a dog the best thing for you to do is wait until the dog stops chasing us. And then ask us some questions, especially when you should have come a long time ago and help your little brothers whip the dog." So, the reason why I bring that up is because there's this - so America freezes King in I Have a Dream not when he said that my dream has turned into a nightmare and started to articulate Malcolm. Sound a lot like Malcolm '65 to '68. Muslims freeze Malcolm in the exact same place which Malcolm becomes suddenly color blind. And yes, it's true. Malcolm no longer indicted the collective - indicted white people on an individual basis or talked about the white devil. He did talk about this idea of seeing people in their fulness and judging people by their character. And you know working together in that spirit. But Malcolm's critique of white supremacy was only sharpened after Hajj. And a lot of those speeches that we assume were pre Hajj. Because if you watch the movie it's like Malcolm went to Hajj then he died. And that's kind of like how we we're really forgetting those last 10 months of the formation of two organizations The Muslim Mosque Incorporated and the OAAU, the Organization of Afro American Unity and what that meant. And Malcolm showing direction with his thought. Articulating a political and religious philosophy that are not in tension with one another. And that do mean something for us. And that do need to challenge us. So, what is Malcolm's roll with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. in that last year? When you start to see these two people coming together. And what does it mean for us? The expression of solidarity in a meaningful way is important. Malcolm did not simply stop some of the things that he said about King. Malcolm sent a letter, a telegram to MLK which you see up here on the screen. June 30th. He says, "We have been witnessing with great concern the vicious attacks of the white races against our poor defenseless people there in St. Augustine. The federal government - if the federal government will not send troops to your aid just say the word and we will immediately dispatch some of our brothers there to organize self defense units amongst our people. And the Ku Klux Klan will then receive a taste to it's won medicine." That sounds great when it's private solidarity right? Except Malcolm sent a telegram to George Lincoln Rockwell on the exact same day that said. "This is to warn you that that I'm no longer held in check from fighting white supremacist by Hlajia Mohammad separatists black Muslim movement. And that if you're present racist agitation against or people there in Alabama causes physical harm to Reverend King or any other black Americans who are only attempting to enjoy their rights as free human beings. That you and your Ku Klux Klan friends will be met with - will be met with maximum physical retaliation from those of us who are not handcuffed by the disarming philosophy of nonviolence. And who believe in asserting our right of self defrense....by any means necessary." Malcolm sends that to George Lincoln Rockwell in defense of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Can you imagine what this did to Hoover's FBI? Can you imagine how frightening it is to see that level of solidarity being expressed between these two people who were supposed to be at war with one another? Malcolm deliberately supposed to be - deliberately his messaging supposed to be delegitimizing King so that he's not taken seriously by his people while Malcolm is portrayed as an extremist that has no role in the movement. And now you see this expression of solidarity despite difference. And meaningful solidarity despite difference. As we know Malcolm went to Selma. And if you watch the movie it's not very - you know don't take your history from movies. That's all I'm going to say, alright. So, what actually happens when Malcolm went to Selma. Malcolm said, "Let me be the scary alternative to Dr. King. So that Dr. King's goals can be achieved. They fear me more than you. And if they see me coming around, then they're going to be more willing to accept your demands. Because they don't want to see Malcolm's flavor bleeding into the south." And so, here's what happens. Malcolm was always - if you watch Malcolm's interviews in Selma. They're brilliant. Because he's always ambiguous. And he's intentionally ambiguous. He says, "I suggest you give Dr. King what he's asking for or else some of us are going to try to do it another way." But he never said what another way was. And he also made it a point - and by the way you know the - there - you know some have actually put out the idea that maybe the reason why that Malcolm was not harmed when he went to Alabama going into Klan country was because there this idea that Malcolm had a force that was traveling with him. And if anyone put their hands on him then they would be in trouble. So, Malcolm went down to Selma to express solidarity. And this is a picture of Malcolm sitting next to Coretta Scott King and she says describing this moment, "He leaned over and said to me Mrs. King I want you to tell your husband that I had to planned to visit him in jail here in Selma. But I won't be able to do it now. I have to go back to New York because I have to attend a conference in Europe. An African student conference. And I want to you to say to him that I didn't come to Selma to make his job more difficult. But that I thought that if white people understood what the alternative was that they would be more inclined to listen to your husband. And so that's why I came." Coretta Schott King says, "And of course I thanked him. And I was naturally somewhat surprised because I didn't expect him to say that. I don't know what I expected but he had such a gentle manner and he seemed very sincere. And I kept thinking about what he had said. And the way that he said it. And of course, within a couple of weeks or more he was assassinated. And it affected me very deeply because I had met him now. And I felt like it was such a tragic loss. For days I had this pain almost like this feeling in my chest, a feeling of depression. And just feeling as if I had lost someone very dear to me. And I couldn't quite understand. But then I began to realize I guess what an impact he had made on me in that very short period of time in knowing him." So, this is a special moment that we have. And I want to take it now to the legacy as we go into our discussion and what this means. If you open up a textbook. And I don't expect you to read all this text. Martin is made into the perfect hero. Malcolm the perfect villain. The goal of this is that every illegitimate form of engagement is legitimized through King. And every legitimate form of resistance is delegitimized through Malcolm. And so, if you can create the hero and create the villain the one that should be - should not even be considered in the first place, then you can more readily appropriate Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. And they struggled to not become reduced to symbols even in their own lifetimes. One of Malcolm's quotes after Selma in fact he said, "Of the Muslims I'm too worldly. For other groups I'm too religious. For militants I'm too moderate. And for moderates I'm too militant. I feel like I'm on a tightrope." So, Malcolm understood what was happening with him also. And here's what I want us to do. You know if you go to YouTube and you search - there was this experiment that was done I think I was in Denmark where they took a copy of the bible and they put a cover of the Koran on it. And they walked through the streets and they read certain versus about violence and women and things of that sort to just average people in the streets. And said, "Can you believe Koran says this?" And people were just outraged. And then they took off the cover and said, "Actually this is the bible. Are you a Christian?" And so, it was, it was quite telling alright. What, what can be done when you take things out of context. But sometimes I think to myself it would be really - it would be fascinating if you took a quote - a book of quotes of Malcolm X covered it with Dr. King or vice versa. So, I'll give you two quotes. Malcolm said, "Ignorance of each other is what has made unity impossible in the past. Therefore, we need more light about each other. Light creates understanding. Understanding creates love. Love creates patience. And patience creates unity. Once we have more knowledge about each other we will stop condemning each other and a united front will be bought about." Sounds very Kingish right? Dr. King says, "The majority of white Americans consider themselves sincerely committed to justice for the negro. They believe that American society is essentially hospitable to fair play and to study growth toward a middle-class utopia, embodying racial harmony. But unfortunately, this is a fantasy of self-deception and comfortable vanity." Sounds very Malcolm-ish. Malcolm is looked at the symbol of disengagement with anything political in America. But one of the things that Malcolm was to reveal on the day of his assassination was the platform the OOAU which would include a voting platform as well. So, you could look at it in two ways. Malcolm said, "The Organization of Afro American Unity will organize the afro American community block by block to make the community aware of it's power and it's potential. We will start immediately a voter registration drive to make every unregistered voter in the afro American community an independent voter. We won't organize any black man to be a democrat or a republican because both of them have sold us out." So, you could take that, and you could say well Malcolm was talking about a different democratic party. Or you could say Malcolm is not you know Malcolm would have rejected any type of voter engagement. Or you could look to Malcolm the core of what Malcolm was saying which was this idea that when you organize, organize n a principled way and do not be uncritically loyal to any politician or any party that only shows up when they want your vote to get them over the hump. So, you could take something from that. Every year on Martin Luther King's - on the anniversary of his birthday the NRA tweets a picture of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Does anyone know what they put in that picture? Every single year. In 1956 Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. applied for a gun permit. Which is true. What they don't put in there is that he was denied. So, every year they tweet it out. And so, you could take from that you know this complete rejection of you know was it violence? Was it nonviolence? Or did he at some - or did he consider this idea again of wanting a gun in the face of so many assassination attempts and threats for himself? Both of these men had a religious organization and a political organization. And this is something that I also want to caution. Will bring it up in the discussion. Sometimes there's a hostility to religion and you know there's obviously a type of religion that I think we should all be hostile to. But there's a hostility to religion that's found in spaces which is unnecessary. If we're going to be true to both of their legacies you can't remove the you know you can't remove the Baptist minister, the Baptist preacher from Dr. King. You can't remove the Muslim from Malcolm. Muslim mosque was just as important to Malcolm as OAEU. In fact, he formed it immediately out of the nation of Islam. And the SCLC was just as important to Dr. King as the student non-violent coordinating committee. So, it's important to do so. These are pictures that I want you to look at. This is a picture I took of the spot of Malcolm's assassination in the Shabazz Center formerly the Autobahn. If you go there, you'll see the difference between it and the Lorraine Motel the spot of the assassination of Dr. King. Malcolm said, "When I am dead, I say it that way because from the things I know I do not expect to live long enough to read this book in it's finished form. I want you to just watch and see if I'm not right when I say that the white man and his press is going to identify me with hate. I know that societies often have killed people who have helped to change those societies. And if I can die having brought any light, having exposed any meaningful truth that will help destroy the malignant cancer - the racist cancer that is malignant in the body of America then all of the credit is due to Allah. Only the mistakes have been mine. Malcolm fully understood that he was going to be vilified. That he was going to be intentionally omitted from books. But he keeps coming back. He keeps coming back. His autobiography keeps coming back. Malcolm in all forms of resistance keeps coming back. Malcolm as a symbol keeps coming back. And so, there is a failure to completely omit him. But you can see the difference between his grave. If you go to LaGuardia and you take a 30-minute drive out to Ferncliff Cemetery you'll barely be able to find Malcolm and Betty's grave. It's actually one tombstone there. Whereas you see the appropriation of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. He is celebrated. But we have to ask ourselves, is he being celebrated as Dr. King? Or what of Dr. King is convenient to America in changing both it's past and it's present? And so, we come back to the statement of Medgar Evers. "You can kill a man but not an idea." And I wanted to end with this. The unfinished business of the civil rights movement. A lot of it is economic. This is actually from the - one of, one of two intersections. Martin Luther King Jr. intersections and Malcolm intersections in the country. It's in Dallas where I live. In south Dallas. One of the worst areas in the country. Dallas ranks last in the country in racialized poverty. It is a segregated as anywhere else in the country. And it is an insult that you would have a mural that says believe. And you have all sorts of, all sorts of horrors and terrors that continue to reign on people there in south Dallas and around the country. And I want you to realize that it's 2019 and Botham Jean was shot in his apartment. A young black man was shot in his apartment complex sitting on his couch. In an upscale condo. Sitting on his couch watching Thursday night football, when officer Amber Geiger walked in and shot him twice in his own living room. And his home was searched to find anything to incriminate him while she had days upon days to wipe out her history. And then to be taken in for a photo - basically a photo op. A 20-minute experience of a mug shot. And just yesterday Dallas tried to vacate, or they tried to move her trial somewhere else over a year later. And this is now 2019. Jordan Edwards is now. A lot of the things that are taking place are now. So, we have to take to ourselves how would Malcolm and Martin's legacies have lived out today in regards to the continued racialized poverty that takes place, mass incarceration, police brutality. And again, connecting to the inconvenient struggles seen that we are enriched when we see the connection of those struggles as opposed to viewing them in isolation. I look forward to the discussion with my distinguished panelists. Thank you all very much [inaudible]. [ Applause ] >> Well Iman Suleiman. Thank you very much for that. I took away several notes. But I would like to just reiterate this one. Do not get your history from movies. Very important. Every year at the annual Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. symposium has a theme. The theme this year is the miseducation of us. Us in capital letters and having the double entendre, double meaning of The United States and us as individuals. And so, I think it fitting that today this first event gets us to think about the ways in which we have not been fully educated about the two of the greatest heroes in this nation in this country and in this world. So, I really appreciate Imam Suleiman for what he has brought. Please give him another hand for that lecture. [ Applause ] >> Now before I bring the speakers up, I would like to introduce our esteemed faculty. Dr. Su'ad Abdul Khabeer is a scholar activist, scholar artist activist who's work examines the intersections of race, religion and popular culture. She is the author Muslim Cool Race, Religion and Hip Hop in The United States. She has a deep commitment to public scholarship and reaches diverse audience through her one-woman solo performance Sampled: Beats of Muslim Life. And her leadership of Sapelo an online resource on black Muslims in The United States. Dr. Ward is associate professor in the department of afro American and African studies. And the social theory and practice program in the residential college. He was the founding coordinator of the urban studies minor and serves as the faculty director of the semester in Detroit program. He teaches courses in African American history urban and community studies and Detroit history. He is the author of Love and Struggle. He's the author of In Love and Struggle; the Revolutionary Lives of James and Grace Lee Boggs and the editor of Pages From a Black Radicals Notebook, a James Boggs Reader. He is a board member of the James and Grace Lee Boggs Center to nurture community leadership in Detroit. It is a critical part of my duty to make the audience aware that Dr.'s Khabeer and Ward did not merely accept an invitation to speak today. But they were very engaged in the planning process and ensuring that the event included dialog and diverse perspectives. The true measure of scholarship is not only in the works you produce but also in how you choose to engage the world in sharing that work. So, what we have here this evening are three individuals who have been very thoughtful in how to engage one another and the audience in a way that seeks the impact us all. So please put our hands together as our speakers come up. [ Applause ] [ Background Noise ] >> What? >> So, what I will ask these - the - Dr. Khabeer and Dr. Ward to do is if you could open up with your reflections and thoughts from the talk and or also the - what you would like to see come out of this dialog. And I believe that we have tasked Dr. Ward with the responsibility of keeping the conversation flowing. But I'm pretty sure that will not be difficult with the panel. And I will be back up in about 30 minutes. So, if you see me walk up on this stage you know what time it is. Alright. Thank you. >> Alright. Alright. Alright. [ Applause ] >> Hello everyone. >> Hello. >> Hello. >> Let's thank Lumas again for guiding us please. [ Applause ] >> And let's thank Omar for setting us in flight. [ Applause ] >> So, each of us will say a few words or thoughts or reflection on the presentation. And also, the second part of what Lumas said equally important not more important our vision, the direction for this conversation which includes our dialog and the question and answer. So, the first thing I'd like to say I start where you started. Which is toward the beginning of your presentation you said you invite a challenge. And I think you were saying it in the vein if something you say someone, one of us perhaps has a disagreement with or so forth. And I don't - so I'm starting there. But I'm not dealing - not that part about it. Just with the information gave, the respect that you gave, the analogy you gave was wonderful in many different ways and we'll get into that. But I'm emphasize - what I would like to emphasize is that willingness to be challenged. And in fact, I think one of the most things is powerful - one of the things most powerful about Malcolm and Martin in different but mutually reinforcing ways is how they constantly were challenged. And how they challenged themselves and how they challenged others. So, and you gave us some sense of that in some of the examples. But and so, forecasting where I think we should go I think that also is something that we all can take from studying and learning about Malcolm and Martin is the ways in which they challenged. We know they challenged the status quo. They challenged racism. Thy challenged the country. But they challenged themselves. They challenged their communities. And they offer so much. In the way that you presented them I think really helps us to see that. So. That's my - yeah for now. >> Yes. I'm sorry. I was a little bit late coming. I teach a class and I forgot about that so. But I did catch I think a good chunk of the presentation. And I think the thing that I wanted to - my reflection. One of the first things that came to me was thinking about Malcolm. Because several times in the talk you talked about he was the first to do x, y, or z. And I think what's important, it's always important to think about these people coming out of communities, right? And specifically, I was thinking about his parents, right? Earl and Louise Little. And I don't know if you mentioned them or not tonight. So, I don't know if I did that. But I was just thinking about - and their relationship to The United Negro Improvement Association and being organizers and leaders in that group. And so, this idea of you know where does this idea of his commitment right to black people and to black liberation. And this notion of international sense of that, right. Because Garveyism and the movement you and I hate right it comes from international trans nationalist black pan-African perspective. And also building on other right sort of scholars and activists male and female right that came before him, that were along side him that I think are also important to sort of understand who he was and his impact, right? And I think that often times one of the things that happens is we think about these people as individuals. And they become these like you know almost untouchable, right? And when they become untouchable then we also fail to see our own capacity, right to sort of make change and to really have an impact both sort of whether it's kind of on the everyday level or the extraordinary level. So, that was one of the things that came to my mind. And I'll just say one other thing too was about the internationalism that you spoke to, too. And I wrote down on my note. I was like okay, so I said internationalism, right? A connection without anti blackness. And I - for me I was thinking about you know I think people, and I'm speaking specifically sort of in Muslim community context but also I think in broader black indigenous communities of color when this idea of you know let's think about what's the connection between you know what's happening in Detroit to what's happening in Palestine. You know let's think about those connections. I think black communities have a history of thinking that way. I think black communities have a history of demonstrating solidarity with other communities and other efforts. I think the reciprocity can often be lacking. And I think that, and I think that happens in a number of ways. So, it can happen in ways around direct organizing. But it also can happen in ways around you know how we imagine or understand who people are. And who should be where at what time and what place, right? And so, I think there're some levels to that. But that was another thing that came to my mind. So, how do we in thinking about moving forward right how do we encourage and live out this sort of internationalist transnational sort of really this notion that white supremacy is a global order, right that white and non-white people are suffering from. And so, we want to do something about that without right perpetuating either anti blackness in the form devaluating black people or sort of using us as props, right? And as images to sort of push forth something else that's really not sort of undoing what we're trying to undo. So. >> Do you want to say anything [inaudible]. >> No, I'm interested in hearing from both of you. >> Well it - okay. Well it's to be a dialog. So, I'm going to make a statement and then it's going to veer into a question to you if I may? >> Sure. >> And it's about sources in a few different ways. So, you began - part of what you said the purpose here to debunking some myths, right? The myth of Malcolm being frozen in the Hajj at that moment. Parallel to how you say Muslims have done that parallel way - parallel to way many have frozen King with I Have A Dream speech. So, called I Have a Dream speech because my view is that, that speech could have a few other names. Listen to it and listen to the refrains of other language other titles it could go by. And so, that's in and of itself not important. But I think it speaks to the more important point that there are parts of that speech which are why he gets frozen, which to make him more tenable and less threatening. And as you were saying to cut - foreclose or cut off the ideas the movements, the struggles that he was thinking and doing in those five years, the rest of his life, after '63. So, and I'm also thinking about a couple times you referenced the movie Spike Lee's film on Malcolm X, right? So, I would like to double cosign or cosign Lumas' cosign of your statement of don't get your history from movies. Documentaries are different. But movies. Now Spike Lee's film did play an important role in the early '90s of helping to bring attention to Malcolm. Ut as history it is flawed in many ways. So, I'm agree with you. So, that's - so what I mean by sources. Okay well that's one dimension. Another dimension what you just referenced this thing about the sources of Malcolm and Martin. Your presentation also debunks the idea that they - and you're calling for us to actively reject that they are these individual. We need these perfect heroes. And these two are these individuals who stand alone. So, what are the sources of their commitments of their ideas and the other struggles? You were just referencing family, community and the movements. I mean. >> Yeah. >> They both helped make social movements. But in some equal measure the movements help make them. And that's not to offer one above the other. But that's a way to understand how change happens and how change agents become such. So, I'm thinking about what are the sources of them so forth. And I'm sorry. I didn't finish the thought about the movie and other things. What are the sources which you helped critically engage, what are the sources by which we do learn about or not learn about these two figures? And we could say so many others. You reference a few. The movie. School, what we get or don't get in school. So, ask yourselves if we had, what we have then mislead. Should I do it. Run amuck. He reasons the ways in which we have learned or not learned or mis taught about Malcolm and Martin. Let's interrogate what those are. Those will be my sources. And on the other side of that is what sources do we go to, to learn, to relearn, to reengage and to learn more deeply? So, all this is driving to the question of I'd like to ask you if you could talk to us a bit about the sources that you have drawn from either for your presentation here or even a deeper sense the sources you've drawn from leading on your path to learning about and now teaching about these tow figures and the ideas and struggles that they represent for us? And then what they can teach us. >> So, I'll speak to you know a few of those things. One of htm honestly, I didn't want to speak to quickly on, but. So, we talked about the UNIA and we talked about Garveyite influence on Malcolm and sort of that shaping him. And the back to Africa movement. And how he understood that in his lifetime. One of the things by the way about the movie the Spike Lee movie was a little better in terms of accuracy because it was based off of Ballwin's screenplay of Malcolm's life. So, it was better. It wasn't perfect. Still don't take your history from movies. Something else really interesting at the end when Mandela said the - when he read those last few words at the end of the movie, he didn't say the by any means necessary part because it was considered too politically volatile for him to say that in 1993. So, they cut it off - cut back to Malcolm because he didn't want to say it at that point the by any means necessary. So, they cut it out at that point back to Malcolm. I think that - I'll speak to - I'll just say a little bit from my perspective on these thing. I think it's important to if you're going to learn about a figure to first and foremost think about the living history that interacted with them. So, you know, you know if you're talking about Malcom and Martin there are people that were living that were around them that could speak of them. You know so whether you're talking about literally children in the case of Malcolm you know and Ambassador Attalla Shabazz who's done a great job really extrapolating and debunking I think the idea that his life was linear as she calls it. That it wasn't a collection of experiences. So, that wasn't 1964 lightbulb moment and that's it. You know she does an incredible job of debunking that. I think it's important to listen to family. It's important to listen to the close friends. It's important to listen to the confidants. For the MLK 50 I you know I took my family on civil rights pilgrimage. At that time my daughter was eight and my son was five. And we went on a bus literally with a bunch, with a bunch of people from Dallas and drove across - got to Memphis for the MLK 50, for the moment 50 from his assassination. Stood in Medgar Evers carport, in the blood-stained carport of Medgar Evers. Where Emmett Till was drowned in the Mississippi delta. Went through Selma. Went through Birmingham. Went through Montgomery. But one of the things that I found most meaningful was actually talking to people that were Martin Luther King Jr. neighbors. Like I mean when you walk into people's houses, you saw pictures of him on the refrigerator. You know pictures of him just being in the house. Like my kids sitting in the secret room where the freedom riders used to sit. You know that's - it's literally because someone knew someone. These weren't necessarily museums. So, I would encourage people to listen to firsthand accounts and experiences where those are online. I'm sure Dr. Su'ad could talk about the after Malcolm project and some of your work on that in particular with Malcolm. And I think that obviously reading their own words. Reading their own works. Taking the time to actually read, read them to the point of their death. To not freeze them even in regards to stopping yourself at reading to a particular point. And you know with Malcolm the autobiography has been so transformative, but it doesn't stop there, right? There was this diary that he intended to publish after his autobiography that started with his trip overseas for the Hajj. But you're in Detroit. You can go to Masjid Wali Muhammad that I was talking about earlier. I mean that history is so alive here. And it's important [inaudible] to interact with that history as much as possible. The other thing I want to just mention to what Dr. Su'ad mentioned about. It hasn't been reciprocated. I agree with you entirely. And I think that one of the things that we have to challenge communities with is that you don't just latch onto a cause because you think it will give your cause mobility. That is the peak of hypocrisy. It's a double standard. It's not acceptable. And one of the ways that I remember that conversation peaked in the Muslim community was when Stephan Clark was murdered. And you know I saw Stephan's body. I went to that funeral. I interacted with that. And you know there was a -this sudden attention that a lot of people had when they found out he was Muslim. Like oh wait we have to pay attention because Stephan was Muslim. And so, I think it's important for us to understand, to take the time. I mean just watch a few documentaries, right? You watch - you said documentaries are okay. You know you watch I Am Not Your Negro. >> Not all of them. >> Or you want 13. >> Not all of them. >> Yes, not all of them right. Some of them. But take some time to understand how mass incarceration works. How the - what structural racism actually looks like to understand it. And then, then you know you'll realize I think a lot of people, a lot of Muslims in particular that come from - that do come from immigrant backgrounds. Again, it's they clipped the birds wing and you know you don't understand this disparity took place. You don't get the history. You don't understand racialized poverty. You don't understand police brutality. And then you start to realize, wait a minute this is all deeply connected to the experiences. Though it's not analogous it's deeply connected to that experience. And I can tell you that personally I think it's connecting with a human level. No person shook me more than in terms of police brutality cases then Jordan Edwards. I thought Jordan Edwards would be America's Emmett Till moment because of the circumstances of his murder were so gross. But I mean then again, we're dealing with Botham Jean now. But you have the 15-year-old kid. They said he was a straight a student. He had the perfect grades. He was the perfect kid. Loved. He didn't have any alcohol in his body in the autopsy. He was just playing PlayStation. Came from a loving family. Debunks all that. They tried to use that if to say that if he was a pot head and you know had a 2.0 then his death could be a little bit more tolerable. But the reason why Jordan Edwards death resonated so much with me, because I got to know his father. And so, I started seeing my kid in Jordan. And I started seeing myself in Jordan's father. So, listen to people. Talk to people. Listen to people. So, interact with history and interact with the present by listening to people. Sitting down and actually listening to people and trying to connect at that human level. [ Background Noise ] >> What would any of us - one of the things you referenced was appropriation. And Dr. King in particular how he's ben appropriated. Is there anything any of us would want to say now to build on that about how we could think about - of course, we want to recognize and challenge appropriation, misappropriation of their legacy as others. And also, how that can turn us towards thinking about how we can actually use their legacies to understand, engage and transform our own world? >> I'll say something. Something else that you mentioned during I guess toward the end of your lecture where you were talking about the telegrams, right that Malcolm sent to Dr. King. And he also sent to the KKK and the conversation he had with Coretta Scott King. And it made me think there's this - I found this it's like a article on this website. It's called indigenous action dot org. And they - and it's called - it's about his accomplices. It was like accomplices and not allies. That's not the exact title. But it makes its argument these indigenous activists make this argument that we don't need allies. We need accomplices, right? And this idea that - and that really struck like it really resonated me thinking about moving forward and what to do in the question of solidarity. Is because an accomplice right is like you - you're - it's like you're doing a crime together right like you're in it together right? You're both like if you get caught like you know we're both - right, right, right. We're both you know catch a case. Like we're doing that together right? And this idea and there's this sort of certain level of like risk involved. A certain level of intimacy involved. A certain level of understanding involved and being that as opposed to sort of an ally. And so that and the example you gave right reminded me of that right. Because as you mentioned you said the idea is that not only was he sending a letter of support to Dr. King but he also directly confronts the people who are right, the people who are going to hurt Dr. King, right? So, it doesn't you know so that - you know so it doesn't stop there. And so, I think you know because I think you're right, right? When even I mentioned reciprocity. The thing about black folks is that we still do it anyway right so, they've been playing us forever. But we're still like I mean - now seriously. Like I mean I was at Palestine, Bosnia whatever it is right growing up. And I still go right? You know what I mean? Even thought the guy who will like the Yemeni dude who owned the Bodega on the corner where I grew up you know was sling crack to my neighborhood right. But you know we - but I still care right. And we still know right. Because that's just one guy. And he's also implicated in a whole bunch of structures as well right? Like he - you want him to make better choices right. But he also right is dealing with sort of what white supremacy Euro-American imperialism looks like in Yemen and in Brooklyn where he's at right. So, he's also navigating that. So, you recognize that right? So, we're going to do it anyway. But this question of like accomplices right. And how do we get to that level, right? How do we get to a level where we're really in this sort of together, right? And I think - and there's a lot of talk too about things being incommensurable and there's certain things that can't be. But I don't know I think there's a way we can kind of try to figure out how to do that right. Like thinking about indigenous group and like what is our relationship right to right indigenous communities, settler colonialism. All that kind of stuff. Like you know what, what is our relationships to those things? And how can we be better engaged? And related to that was just a question also on organizing as well. And I lost my thoughts. So, I'm going to pause here. >> Well may I pick up with. >> Yeah. >> That and add something to go along with the idea of accomplice? I want to invoke my comrade and friend Tawana Honeycomb Petty. Her name is Tawana Petty. And she's an activist and poet and she performed under the name Honeycomb. Detroit based activist who actually will be doing, be doing a workshop on campus in a couple weeks. She's doing one in Detroit on Monday which [inaudible] CAST Community Action Social Change minor and the school social work will be participating in. And he has developed the concept of co-liberation as to move through and beyond allyship or allyhood. And her idea is that for white people who want to recognize their place in our society, recognized by privilege. But her point is that rather than ty to help black people or the people of color that recognize that you too have been dehumanized by racism. You too have been dehumanized. Not in the same way. Not to the same magnitude or extent. But that your own humanity is corrupted. And so, that acting against racism, against a broader structure of oppression that you can see yourself as co-liberator. And it's not to make all people - recognizing that they're not equal society, but that rather than this ally where again you don't have - you just offering something. But seeing yourself as co-liberator that you have been corrupted and you have some work to do to overcome that. So, I offer her and her concept to go along with that. >> You got your [inaudible]? >> Yes. >> So, there's like a refrain. Organize, organize, organize, right? And so that also thought about too this idea that it's you know - like recently there was this article that came out where there was a person who was saying that they participated in some government programs. And people didn't agree with them. And they were like but I told those people you know we got to be inside and outside, right. People say that all the time. And I was, and I've heard this before a number of times. And I was listening to it. And I was like what is really bothering me about this? And I was like you ain't organized. So, it's not like people you on the inside and you organize people on the outside. You're working together right? So usually that's like I'm doing my thing. You're doing your thing right. And somehow right we're going to, we're going to reach the promise land, right? And so, when you mentioned this idea of like his conversation with Coretta Scott King reminded of that too right because it's like here's what I'm trying to do, right? I'm putting you on to what I'm trying to do right. This is you know let's try to figure like and no one else has to know. This is a private conversation between you and you know the two od us right? But were organizing right. And we have a strategy to do something. And I also think that's important right. I think, I think - but of course you have to like again have that connection and everything to do that. But it's important to like to actually organize. >> To articulate. So, that's a great point. And it's kind of what I was getting at. And it's even you know we talk about Martin being used to legitimize every illegitimate form of engagement. Malcolm being or used to delegitimize every legitimate form of resistance. You know a lot of times you're undermining the other person. And part of that is communication. Like you need to tell people what you're doing. People need to know what you're doing. Part of it that I think that - because there were people that engaged in unproductive resistance. And there were people that engaged in unproductive engagement that would have happily - there are people that will happily throw their communities under the bus for you know individual elevation. You're going to find validators to be used against your community no matter what. You can't change that. That profile is going to exist in every community that you're going to have someone that's going to be weaponized against their own community because they're willing to trade in their integrity for money or for access or of power. But obviously not everyone is like that. And that is a great conversation I think right now where you're talking government engagement. So, I've, I've never been in the White House. I've. >> I went once. >> Been. You went once? Yeah. I've been on the outside of the White House. I gave a Khutbah on the White House lawn. That was fun. >> I wrote a letter to the president. >> Oh, okay. >> Open [inaudible]. >> So, you read a letter. So, I've never actually been inside. I've been but I know I think that some people - like I would not put two Muslims that have gone inside to your point before you even said that in the same category. The point is are you still you? And are you raising the issues that need to be raised whether you're sitting at the table or you're outside? Are you compromising on your values on your principles? Are you no longer articulating bold stances because you're afraid that it will compromise your position? Are you not connecting with the rest of the community and letting people know what exactly you're trying to achieve? And one of my 2019 goals - it's getting late in 2019. Is to do a better job articulating. I mean I think there's a lot of frustration with leaders in the community that we don't do a good job - good enough job of actually telling people what we're doing. Frameworks. What are your frameworks? What are you operating out of? What do you - how do you judge whether or not something is a legitimate engagement or not a legitimate engagement? We might have it worked out in our heads, but we need to do a better job of communicating that to other people in our community at the leadership level and to our communities as a whole. Maybe not to the same level but to some extent so that it's not just - it doesn't just seem like it's a bunch of individuals rising and then acting as gate keepers to their community. Or even worse being weaponized against their communities. >> So, one of the ultimate goals can be to empower members of the community, right? The power of community. So, people within them have those critical consciousness that they can, they can do that type of evaluation. >> Uh-huh. >> So, we have a few minutes before we move into questions. >> Can I ask you a question? >> Yeah. I suppose so. >> So, one of the things that came up to me also when I was thinking about - when I was listening to talk today, and this -- you mentioned this too about how Malcom X he established the Muslim Masque Incorporated and LAU. And I was thinking about you know it's like Malcolm X and El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz right was black and he was Muslim. And all the time right. And - but in the, in the ways he gets frozen as a villain right in some activist communities and in some black communities right. His Muslimness gets kind of you know. He's just a black nationalist or a pan-Africanist. >> Right. Right. Right. >> So, I was wondering if you might comment on that being the resident non-Muslim on the stage. In terms of if you've seen that or what you think might be going on with that you know? >> Well so I suspect there's many things going on with that. And I don't think that I would have the vision to see all of them. So, one or a couple of things going on I think is that Malcolm meant so much to so many people. And it - during his lifetime. But then after his life. >> Uh-huh. >> I mean Malcolm is the central figure for us - for the animating the emergence of a social movement that he never was a part of because he didn't live through it. The black power movement which emerged immediately after his death. And he was this main figure you now intellectual and political inspiration for it. But he wasn't actually a part of it. So, I imagine that's part of it. Another part is that I would suspect and I invite the two of you and others to work with this. He was a Muslim - he had a couple of different iterations if you will. So, I mean he was in the Nation of Islam. And then left the Nation of Islam. And left is a mild way to say what happened. And then embraced another form of Islam. He's - his identity as a Muslim was continuous but it's, it's context and expression were different, very different, right? And so that means, that means different communities, different identities can attach to him or not. So, I imagine that is part as well. And then finally because his - for him the political struggle and his identity as a Muslim were unified, but he - but that wasn't there for so many others. So, others who weren't Muslim could be and were drawn to and inspired by what he did. So, I suspect those are some of the reasons why. But I offer that as a starting point. >> Yeah, I mean I think - I just I mean. So, I put you on the spot. But I also bring that up because I do think one of the things that I've heard other people talk and I'm particularly into the sort of contemporary activist spaces is this way in which sort of black Muslims - like so sort of people want to connect to Muslims and they skip over right the black Muslim that there. Or something like oh like oh I'm [inaudible] Muslims. Okay let me go find this person right. Like I'm a black [inaudible]. Yeah I'm yeah I'm black from wherever and I'm like oh let me find this other person. But my cousin Rashid 'm like oh you know whatever. You know. And so 'm just interested in thinking to is like you know like you - it's like you know but we'll claim Malcolm. And it's like well if you claim Malcom right and he's black and Muslim it's like you can't have him you don't want us. You know what I mean? >> Right. Right. Right. >> So, like in that way I was thinking about it too. Yeah. >> So, I think there's - maybe they're other people who have thoughts on that. And we're moving to questions now. So, Lumas is going to guide us through the questions. [ Background Noise ] >>So, as you can probably tell - as you can probably tell it was just really getting good. But that typically how it happens right? We warm up. But we also know that the evening is running a little long. And we wanted to make sure we had an opportunity to go to some questions from the audience. And there is one particular question I would like to offer and ask first. And just make a distinction from my question and an audience questions because I will read the audience questions as written. But even before I ask my first question, I want to urge the speakers to bring if you can some of your experiences. Because you are all activists, right? So, your introductions are very much about your professorship, your academic work. But we're in front of folks who know the complexities and the struggles of taking this from theory into practice, right? And living this out in the life through the academy and also beyond the academy. And those things look very different. And it's very challenging to walk that line at times. And asking you to remember that in this audience there are community members and students who are looking for those very particle and pragmatic ways to push themselves into doing this work some more. So, with that I want to get this question out of the way. So, we know that Martin and Malcolm represent open criticism of the state, right? And they were heavily surveilled during their life. In what ways were Malcolm and Martin's lives impacted by surveillance? How would they respond to issues of modern-day surveillance from the Patriot Act to FBI informants, to artificial intelligence being placed in communities? [ Background Noise ] >> Okay. So, I think - I mentioned the term that I wanted to give a little bit more time to before I get to the surveillance thing which was prescribed protest. Malcolm's fear was of operating within prescribed protest. And so, you only - you know and that can happen with civil disobedience. When civil disobedience in a way becomes civil obedience because you're going to start and end at the time that you're expected to. You're going to - you're not going to actually disrupt anything. I think that when it comes to civil liberties in particular in the post 911 era. And this is where you talk about how justice actually intersects. DHS as an agency was formed out of an Islam - in an Islamophobic climate under George W. Bush. ICE was formed under DHS. Counter terrorism? Are you kidding me? If anything, they're terrorizing communities. I mean in Dallas in particular where ICE raids literally terrorize the community more so then any other place in the country. We had six times more ICE raids then any other city last year in Dallas. ICE was born out of an Islamophobic agency, right? An agency that was formed in Islamophobia and then you have this agency that was formed. Obama expanded ICE. And expanded some of those crack downs on civil liberties in his administration. Of course now, we know where we are right now. We're seeing the ugliest ending of all of those, all of those interventions. What happens to us unfortunately is that Americans cannot if - when you say abolish ICE you're radical. Because people think it's some sort of historical institution. It's like no. If you have a driver's license you're older then ICE. It's not a - it's not a historical institution. It was formed out of a lie. So, you don't just need to abolish ICE you need to abolish the premise of ICE. You don't just need to abolish The Patriot Act. You need to abolish the false premise of The Patriot Act. That makes some communities more dangerous then others and hence crack downs on them more justifiable to the American mind. And so that's why I'm highly critical of engaging in any of those programs in any way that offers you know in the name of trying to curb them. To lessen the damage. Those programs should - any engagement with those types of programs suggests some validity to its premise. And so there needs to be a sense of actually trying to reclaim civil liberties. And I think that with Malcolm who was surveilled from '50 to '65 until his death. With Martin who was surveilled until his death. I think that both of them would have probably taken a similar stance on government surveillance and on some of the things that are taking place there. So, we need to reclaim that, that fight because again we let the news cycle dictate our thoughts. Like who's even talking about this stuff now? Like where are you even hearing about The Patriot Act? Where are you hearing about you know some of those crack down on civil liberties. So I think we need to, we need to not just seek to invalidate them and organize around invalidating them. But also pointing to the faulty premise that they were introduced upon in the first place. [ Inaudible ] [ Laughter ] >> So, well first let me send Tawana Petty who I mentioned. One of the things she's working on now is challenging project green light which is a right now this moment in Detroit this effort by Mayor Doug and his administration to have these cameras all over the city that - in using the - what's the name [inaudible]? Not drones but. >> Face recognition. >> Face - thank you. Facial recognition to surveille the - essentially the whole city and particularly marginalized people in the city. So, there's - so this is about contemporary [inaudible] to the question or the Lumas prefaces of the question for people to learn about this now. Identify and challenge the premise that under which is - under and you can be engaged with people because they're our communities. Some people in front, who are engaged in this the broader struggles against project green light. And other efforts in the city of Detroit in this effort to remake the city. >> I have a - it was mentioned in my bio that I do a one-woman show right? And the segment of the show I talk about sort I, I take excerpts from press releases from the Chicago Joint Terrorism Task Force where they talk about Muslim men, black Muslim men, Arab Muslim men who were arrested or charged for terrorism, like alleged terrorism. And in all of - and I take excerpts from this report verbatim. And in all of these cases there was a cooperating source right an informant. All of the cases. I then link that to the recent release of the FBI's surveillance of what they call black identity extremists right talking about black activists. And then I had found recently a letter written by my mother, may she rest in peace, when she was in college in '71 at Ohio State. In the letter she talks about Dick Gregory coming to her campus. I went online to look to find like a newspaper clipping for the letter. The first thing I found was Dick Gregory's FBI file. And in Dick Gregory's FBI file they also talk about his visit to campus. Her letter doesn't talk about - so in one - in her letter it says that the black student organization on the campus was nominated Dick Gregory to be president of Ohio State University. But her letter does not indicate that she was actually there at the meeting. The FBI report does indicate that they were actually there at the meeting right because the names are redacted. And they say on this date these people decided to do this right. Which reminded me then of the NYPD surveillance of Muslim Student Associates in New York City. Which also reminded me of the recent report that someone came out about San Diego where they have all these cameras now in San Diego. And there was a report I think it's CAIR [Council on American-Islamic Relations] San Diego in which they looked at where the cameras are and like there's like aa high proportion of these cameras around the masjid, the Mosques in San Diego, right. So, thinking about what that meant to their lives. We know that surveillance was used right as a tool right to disrupt their personal lives, their family lives and to sort of disrupt the movements that they were a part of. And today the same thing is happening. And so, I think how we should respond to that going off what they both said is to one educate ourselves about what's happening. There's a lot of noise. And it's really hard to pay attention sometimes, right? But to educate ourselves about what's happening. Find the people in the communities who are working on that. And if you don't work with them you can support their work with your time or your money and your effort. And just remember right the FBI is not your friend right. I think that's really important. Like they're not your friends. These institutions they're - they weren't designed to be your friends. They were not designed to help your communities. And so, you need to sort really keep your third eye open and you deal with them right. In a away - and the ways to educate yourself specifically when you're stopped by the police etcetera. But I think it's important to recognize that law enforcement, law enforcement agencies like they you know they come - so they emerge right from slavery. They emerge from sort of trying to track right black people and keep them unfree right. They emerge you know from sort the genocide of indigency. Yeah this where they emerge from right. So, these institutions that's their legacy. That's their history. And so, you know we say abolish other stuff too right which I guess is more radicle now. Bu tin any event I think at the end of the day I think we have to educate ourselves and stay connected so that we know what's happening around us, so you don't get caught up. >> I need to add one point to that because I think it's really - it's fascinating to me how when you watch Muslim Twitter. And how there are literally faceless people that can drive entire conversations in our community. It's incredible to me. Like I watch it every time. And it's like faceless people. If they're even people, bots that can drive entire direction in thinking in our community. And like no one stops to think this guy is like Abu something. And he's got Elmo in his profile picture. Like why, why are we taking people? So, we have to think about the way as technology has evolved how are other ways I mean if we - it's no longer just the guy that is praying Fajr next to you. You don't know if you can trust that person. And I'm not saying this to make us overly paranoid. It's to make us cautious. Typically, what happened in the post 91 era in particular is you'd have these people that would up to the masjid and then they'd start telling a few youths hey let's go play paintball and let's prepare for Afghanistan. And I'm like wait a minute you know we're doing Jihad and ha, ha, ha. And then it was Allahu Akbar and that got on camera. And then you ruined the kid's life. What does that look like now with online conversations with extreme vices in different directions that drive trends? And like we just have to be smart about what's happening to our community because as surveillance and infiltration will only grow with the means by which they can grow. And we just have to be smarter and more cautious about that stuff. >> Thank you. So, when we opened up the dialog I charged the speakers would be open of course. And then I just came back and I asked them to also charged them to bring a little bit more of their working themselves to this conversation. So now I want to charge the audience with something. As I read the questions. We all come in with our understandings of this work. Or understanding so X and King and we came here tonight to be pushed. And as I read these questions I think - I just want to remind everyone to be open to being pushed. Because there's something that I think is missed when everything feels comfortable. It's important that we are in some ways we embrace the discomfort when it comes to thinking about these things. Because again we're in a sea of water that hadn't - that would have us think one way. And that one way maybe antithetical to communities sometimes. So, we must learn to be comfortable with being pushed. So, with that I will ask the first question. And you may not push it. I'm not saying you will. But. So, how do you think America can learn from its history and present brutality against the African American community in order to address our current violence against the Latin X community at home and the Palestinians conflict abroad? How do we call us American's to action? [ Background Noise ] >> I started last time. >> He did start. >> The first part was how do we learn from the history. >> Mic. >> First part was how do we learn from the history. Second part was how do we push people to action. >> Uh-huh. [ Background Noise ] >> Well one thing I guess pushing I suppose I think it's important that - because as someone who identifies as Afro-Latina I think it's also important to recognize that sort of African American and Latin X are not always these things over here. So that's just one thing. So, push. I think how can we learn? I think we learn - here's an example. There's this term that academics use call comparative racialization. And this is a term that basically means how one group gets kind of racialized as you know as a threat or a problem by its association with another group. And so, and example that I used one in the class related but not the same was that when they - when the people were coming for asylum when it first started happening. And Trump was like oh and there's some like Arabs or Muslims or something there, too right? This idea that like these - the people seeking asylum were this threat and they were even more threatening because there were these potential Middle Eastern. I think it was middle easterner's wright that we also sort of you know sort of coming over the border like to. [ Inaudible ] >> Right, right, right. To get us all. You know this kind of thing. So, I think one of the ways that I - one of the ways that I think is helpful to think about this is to think about the ways in which right sort of myths about black people for example, can compliment right. Sort of myths about other groups right. To sort off be you know sort like - so they're threatening in this way and that reminds me of how this person is threatening in that way right to see those connections. I think is one way to think about this. To think about sort of in terms of just our -- how to understand the history. Because I think that it's important to recognize you know this is not, this is not new right? This has happened before. And so, you know I say like you know black people have like you know, you know what did I? I had - I'm trying to the phrase that they used. But you know they're like you know they're threatening, they're hypersexual. You know these things they have. You know they're violent you know they're you know they have large butts' etcetera. This kind of thing, right? And then it's like Muslims you know they wear scarves and they have beards and they blow up stuff, right? Like this like you know these things they work in similar kinds of ways. And so, I think thinking about one when you know how sort of black people, people of African descent have been made into threats. And then also how they've bene made into signs of American exceptionalism right? Also, how they've been - oh no were okay because look at these people now type of thing right? So, you can see how that's happening with hthis group you can kind of track it and see how it's also doing with another group. Because they're actually working together to uphold the same sort of system. So, that's one thing I would say about that. And how do get people to change? A push or whatever. I mean that's like you know what is the answer to life. But I mean like you know like I mean, I mean I just speak for myself personally. I think that similar to sort of my thing about Malcolm and like family. It's like you know I come from a community, right? I come a community. I come from a family. And people who sort of educated me from a very young age about what's going on, how to see the world. And really instilled in me sort of a kind of a sense of purpose around these things. And so, and I think you know one way to get people to change is to help people find that purpose for themselves. And then also to be - and to help them find the supports they need to sort of live that out. Because it's also you can't you know it's difficult - you can't organize alone right? So, similar to what the Imam was saying around you know speaking to people and learning from people and talking to people. Like you also have to like get off your computer and your screen and like actually see people in the flesh, breathe the same air you know like. That also I think is a big part of [inaudible]. >> So, I'm going to say quickly summarizing what's been said. To study and learn. And then study not necessarily in the formal sense, though that could be valuable. But with and intention with a purpose of learning going finding the premise to challenge a premise. To study, learn and connect with people. And then I would maybe slightly misinterpreting the question on purpose. But I would throw it back to that person. But to all of us have you asked yourself how you - what is it that will - that gets you activated? Andi think each of us can try to develop our own sense of how change happens, that studying for the purpose of seeing how change happens and then how you can be part of that. >> Should I - yep. I will - I'm going to say this because I know that we're running out of time and to just to sort of build off of this. When you engage something in the form of activism, engage it out of a sense of conviction. Like really understand why you're there. Be intentional about it. And connect it -- specifically by the way to the Muslims in here you know where you can connect it to your - to the Seerah and to the prophetic person biography and just live it. But connect it to something that's deeply meaningful to you. And have that conviction. Act from a place of conviction. One thing that think when we're talking about the faith question is, I don't know that Malcolm without the spiritual fuel that he had would have been who he was. I don't that Martin would have been the same person without his spiritual fuel. It's important for us to engage things out of place of conviction. To deeply understand issues. And then to focus. You know there's a gripe with performative activism right now. Activism is not showing up in 20 protests a year coping a selfie. And putting it on your social media with a really cool profile picture. And a lot of hashtags. Study two things one, two issues that you can really, really have meaningful impact in. Immerse yourself in those issues. Learn those issues. Be present in other things that speak to your convictions. Be present. Right? Show support. But immerse yourself deeply. If you're really passionate about antipoverty, immerse yourself in antipoverty policy. Work, work, work on antipoverty. If you're passionate about criminal justice work on it. If you're passionate about immigration you need to go beyond you know tweeting out families belong together. Like it's got to be more than that. So, immerse yourself deeply in something you care about. If you're in the MSA, be in something else too. It's not a - the MSA's great. I know that you all brought me here. So, support your MSA. And I deeply believe in the MSA but be involved in something else too. Be involved in something that's deeply meaningful to you. Choose something that you really care about. Champion that cause. But - and be a part of it. And connect with it at a spiritual level. Connect with it at an emotional level. Connect with it so that it's not leaving your head. It's not leaving your thoughts. You're constantly thinking about how you can make a change in the people's lives that are affected by that particular issue. Please immerse yourself in those meaningful things insha'Allah. Don't just jump around. Think about things that are important, that are meaningful. And to the - you know to Dr. Su'ad's point like I see it all the time in Texas. Like I remember when the whole dreamer's thing came out. A lot of people were assuming that it was you know it's just a Latino issue, right? It's - this has nothing to do with you know anyone else, right? It's Hispanics. And it's isolated to that. And then you start finding out like okay you know this brother, this sister and - in Texas we have a big - alhamdulilah - Latino Muslim community in Texas. But you know you start finding out that hey you know my friend from Afghanistan who've I've been hanging out with all these years, I never knew that they were a dreamer too. And then it starts connect - now it shouldn't have to come to that, but it does. Sometimes you're confronted when it's closest to you. When something that you cannot escae. You can't turn a blind eye to someone. And then you realize wait a minute this issues far more then that person. And if thy feel this way and I feel this way that, that way so and so feels this and so and so feels this way. So, it's the same paly book that's being used against different communities. Ultimately it comes down to this. What it comes down to is that this community, whatever communities being targeted is not civilized or worthy of human dignity and dignified policies and practices towards it. Whether that's domestic or foreign. Because I can tell you having see people in cages at the border of El Paso, McAllen, Juarez, Tijuana. I've seen it. Tornio. I've seen those people and what they're put in. That would not happen at the Canadian border. If America saw children with blond hair and blue eyes in cages and stacked on top of each other in concrete warehouses things would not proceed with business as usual. So, we have to be honest with ourselves that people have been stripped of their human dignity. Therefore, policy towards them is not dignified. So, you need to work on the human dignity part. And in the meantime, work on the policy part as well in a meaningful way. [ Applause ] >> Alright. We are at time. So, I will ask the speakers to just close with 60 second message to the community, if you will before we bring up Mohammad and Jumanah to give us an official closeout and actually present gift to the speakers. 60 seconds if you will. >> 60 seconds. Start now. Okay so I think one thing that Omar's presentation helped us to see that Malcolm and Martin if - if they were growing together it wasn't like this. It wasn't like they were going meeting in the middle. It was like this. So, they each were growing. And that - and so, up until the last day. That is inspiration that I think that we can take from them. And each of us now individually in our collectivities in our communities can and should recreate the world. I think that's where we see the various struggles. The various problems with the world. We have to recreate it. >> Okay. So, I think I will just reiterate what was said about the spiritual - having that that kind of spiritual resource. I think that there is like that mentioned too sometimes people will see this opposition between kind of sort of doing sort of, sort of working communities, doing activism in your spirituality. Right. Right now like Muslim community in The United States there's this really kind of weird conversation about that where there's a sense that oh we have to Islamize like our activism. And I think that it's weird because it's like you know if you're - if you're principled, if you have purpose right if you're connected right to people then what you're trying to do will naturally be inclined right Toward God the divine higher power etcetera. Like this will naturally happen. And so, I think it's important I think for people to sort of kind of listen to their own selves right. As they're sort of doing this. And also thinking about what is activism? Because that's also a loaded word. And sometimes you're busy and you have this and you have kids and you have that. And you working you know like 12-hour shifts. You can't do all that kind of stuff right. But there's like this Muslim tradition right where the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam says right a smile is charity right. And so, we know that in a lot of traditions giving charity is a very good thing right? But what if I don't have right. A smile is charity. So, I think the same thing is true about activism right. There're all these different kind of ways and really small ways that you can do something right. To push us forward. Or you can see something crazy happening on your street or in your job and you say something right. Or you make sure that this kid - the kid who lives next door to you who's parents or whatever. You know they're all these little things we can do right to push us forward. So, if you're - if you can't you know join the organization. If you can't do that like think about right if a smile is charity what are the other small ways in which you can also be engaged right in pushing us forward in an everyday way. >> Yeah, I think I mean - just to piggy back off of that it's purposeful living. I think the word activist is very loaded sometimes. And you know and sometimes someone introduces as an activist I kind of look around. I'm like where did that come from? You know like you know Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said, "I'm just a Baptist preacher." Like I'm just an Imam. Leave me out - don't call me an activist you know. But it's purposeful living. Being purposeful about your life whether it's in private or in public. Whether it's in the capacity of a family - within a family or within a leading role at an organization. It's purposeful living. And here's what I'll say in conclusion about Malcolm and Martin and heroes in general. We make two mistakes with heroes. We either make them so perfect and infallible that they're inaccessible. Or worse we, we lower them until they become tools of our own deviations. And you know like means of us assessing things that they were actually you know categorically opposed to in their being. So, heroes are meant to be emulated and you know whether it's the best of people or whether it's someone that was getting there. They're meant to be emulated. Even prophets of God are meant to be emulated, right? So, we are supposed to emulate them and find them in our lives and unlock purposeful living. And if you, if you live longing for the divine and you don't let trends dictate you. You don't let power dictate you because you're thinking about His power. You don't let trends dictate you because you're thinking about His principles. You don't let you know you're dictated by that longing for the divine, ikhlas, sincerity. Whether it's in private or in public it's going to purify your worship and it's going to purify your work. I'll just call it your work. It'll purify your work. So, you need to purify your worship where the sight of God becomes so beloved to you, that whether it's just God watching you or God and someone else watching you you're thinking about the sight of God. That's what sincerity is in worship. Some thing with work. Right. Your work. Make it try - you know create that longing so that you are constantly at it. So, when the news cycle moves away from that kid in Juarez because right now, we're not talking about kids in cages because they're talking about something else right now. You're still there. When the news cycle moves on from Jordan Edwards and Botham Jean you're still there. When the news cycle moves on from the child in Gaza and Palestine or the child in Kashmir you're still there. You're always there because you've connected for something other than the moment. You've connected for the one who dignified that person and enable you to work for that person's dignity. >> Alright. So, let me say thank you to hanging with us for so long. Only about five more minutes we want you to hang with us because we want to definitely celebrate the speakers for what they have just done. And I want to just say again the importance of considering your sources, committing to read and I think something else that was touched on a little bit, but remembering people's parents. I like how Dr. Khabeer started with you know talking about Malcolm's parents. It helps us to humanize people when we see that they are part of a family. They're not just again an individual. They come with a community. And sometimes even remembering someone's parents and children's goes a long way to humanize them. And for us to connect to them. So, now I would like to bring up Jumanah and Mohammad so that they may present the speakers with some gifts. [ Applause ] >> And real quickly I don't know if this was stated. It might have been stated. It's definitely on the program. There were a lot of colleges and departments and units that supported and sponsored this event. But there were also a lot of student orgs as well. And it wasn't just the Muslim Student Association that saw this as important. It was a lot of different groups who saw that this dialog was important because people recognize that with these two men stood for was deliberation of many people. But they also understood that the strategies and tactics used for any community important for all communities. So, just want to put up and highlight again that various student orgs are a part of this. And we encourage you to continue working with one another to bring these dialogs to campus. [ Applause ] >> Wow. What incredible evening. Thank you all so much for sticking with us. I know it was long, but we are so grateful to you for staying and participating in this important topic. Can we have an enormous round of applause for you guys the guests. [ Applause ] >> Thank you all also to Lumas for highlighting that this was a collaborative effort between the Muslim Students Association and several other student organizations. They are also listed on the program on the back along with our co-sponsors - co-sponsoring units on campus. We have a small token of appreciation for each of our speakers. Imam Omar, Dr. Su'ad, Dr. Ward, and Dr. Lumas. Thank you, thank you, thank you for your support and for your participation. >> Thank you. [ Applause ] >> We hope that you'll enjoy these local flowers in you space over the coming days. This lecture was both livestreamed and video recorded. The recording will be edited, and closed captioning will be added. So, we'll be sure to send out that link in the next, in the next couple of weeks. So, stay tuned. And please share it widely. It was an important topic. And again, we want this to be as accessible as possible to everyone. We do have one final note. For anyone who would like to pray Maghrib, the sunset prayer, we have a prayer room set aside on the fourth floor of Rackham. So, if you just take the elevators or stairs up to the fourth floor, it's in the east conference room. And it's literally that way. It's in the farthest corner of the building. And inside of that room the qiblah is indicated. So, you'll know where to pray. Thank you so much. We appreciate you guys sticking around. And we hope that you have a pleasant evening. Assalaamualeikum. [ Applause ]

Channel: University of Michigan

Views: 1,340,889

Rating: 4.4106908 out of 5

Keywords: university of michigan, malcom x, martin luther king jr, Iman, Omar Suleiman

Id: OZgED6sl30c

Length: 127min 17sec (7637 seconds)

Published: Mon Sep 30 2019