Islam, Judaism, and Christianity - A Conversation

now it's my pleasure to introduce our moderator the Reverend Amy Heller mother Amy is the senior chaplain at the Episcopal School of Dallas and served as associate rector of Church of the Transfiguration chaplain to the school at parish episcopal and i first met Amy when she was here as an associate for adult formation we're fortunate to have her back with us tonight please welcome the Reverend Amy Heller [Music] thank you it's a delight to welcome you all to st. Michael and all angels and before I introduce our panelists let us be and share among being prayer and share a moment of quiet as we gather our thoughts together to build community in this evening we share let us pray loving God we thank you for the gift of our human family and our ability to bear your image to one another we thank you for our individuality and our shared holiness that moves in and through us into our world tonight in our time together may our hearts and minds be open to listening to one another and to a renewed understanding of the many ways your holy people live their faith in you bless us with a holy curiosity a heart of compassion in a sense of shared life to you O Lord be all honor and praise this night and always amen well it's wonderful to welcome our panelists this evening beginning to my right rabbi David Stern chief rabbi at Temple Emmanuel here in Dallas in Center Imam Omar Suleiman director of the Islamic learning foundation of Texas and resident scholar at Valley Ranch Islamic center and at the far right reverend dr. Krista Radha rector here at Saint Michael all angels it's a fun for me to learn that they are getting to know one another and building their collegial relationships with one another and so we really have an evening ahead of us of listening in on their conversations as they grow in friendship and fellowship with one another in the different ways that they serve faith communities in our shared city so as we begin I have an opening question for you all the question is this what is a commonly held misconception of your tradition and what would you like us to know about that commonly missed I miss self-deception and we'll go from there I would never presume to answer first I thought that was your answer held misconception I would say commonly held misconception might be that the Jewish community is in some way monolithic in either its political or spiritual attitudes and as any Jew will tell you the joke the Jews would use like tell about ourselves as to Jews three opinions which is not only a joke but sort of an ethos the Judaism is built on a spirit of argument and multiplication of ideas so I would say any impression of the Jewish community that veers towards the monolithic is probably missing something central about who we are and how we roll I don't think anyone has any misconceptions Media does a great job of representing us where do I start sort of bullet points there is less than you know we make up less than 1% of the population here in the United States and we have not secretly launched a takeover of the country we're not trying to replace the Constitution which Syria law we don't want to kill everybody we're just as curious as to where Isis came from as everybody else's we don't oppress women in our tradition our tradition is not one that oh oh you know okay that's the one that's that's that's the one I'll focus on just for a moment and I think it plays into a larger narrative that Islam is a cause of destruction and regression and I'd like people to just take a moment to consider that we are a 1,400 year olds religion and that within Islam you had the birth of hospitals and medicine the first University in the world was founded by a Muslim woman our country here in the United States has yet to elect a woman president the largest Muslim country in the world does anyone know where the largest Muslim country in the world is Indonesian Asian has already had two female prime ministers so associating Islam with regression particularly the oppression of women and holding women back where some of the greatest female scholarship has been produced from the Muslim world over the last fourteen hundred years I think is very dishonest and disingenuous so I think Islam being associated with regression and particularly within that regression the oppression of women talk about the other stuff later yeah that's great I probably say one of the common misconceptions would be the Christians are judgmental that we seek only to convert or change anyone we meet and I have conversations all the time especially with those who don't belong to a faith community that they're afraid to show up at a church because they assume that we'll kind of get our claws and them and want to make sure that they change who they are in order to be the kind of person God wants them to be and I think it's so much bigger than that it's more Invitational than it is judgmental it's a commonly this held misconception I think of the faith it may not be a misconception of the people [Laughter] that's fair all right I think again I'll open-ended is to who wants to respond first but it's a wonderful question that came ahead of time from some of someone out here do we pray to the same God it's good softball Amy yeah I just thought I'd go there first I love it theological so I mean I guess I'll start on this one that the name Allah is actually the same name word that is used in the Arabic Bible it's what Arab Christians believe it or not Arab Christians say Allah Akbar which means God is greater so the name Allah refers to what Jesus peace be upon him would have said alors Allah refers to the same god of Moses may God's peace and blessings be upon him and so we have an understanding in our faith that at least that we are not only are we calling upon the same God that Jews and Christians call upon but in fact the Quran says when you speak to when you speak to the people of the book there if you guys look up there was an interfaith initiative called a common word that was initiated a few years ago started between Muslims and Catholics and spread it's based on a verse in the Quran which says say o people of the book which refers to the Jews and the Christians come to a common word that we worship our God and your God and our God is one Enoch Oklahoma it out and out life your God and our God is one so in Islam we have a very clear understanding that we are in fact calling upon the same God of Abraham Moses Jesus and Muhammad may peace and blessings be upon them all thank you I mean I would just echo to say that we all I think understand that our Abrahamic root is the same and although in every tradition not just the three defined here but as Rabbi Stearns already said there are different branches within each of these groups that its branches off of that same root and the way that we understand the creator may be different but that the creator is the same I would echo that and say that it's probably an act of human hubris to put the master of all the universe in a definitional box of human creation so I would echo what my colleagues and friends have said by saying that it is in fact in some ways a violation of God's sovereignty to treat God's sovereignty too narrowly and that it's fundamental to my sense of faith to say that there is one God that we find different paths to that we have different expressions of the change within our own traditions over time that are different in any one moment across a society and it seems to be fundamental to a monotheistic conviction to say that of course we do okay well keeping in that vein and maybe we're gonna we're gonna wander through history a little bit why is it that each of the religions that you serve and that we are part of focus on differences and not similarities answered first the last time yeah it's chrisstambo intersection I think it's human nature to try and define yourself by saying what someone else is or is not that that's that's normal natural I think that it's not perhaps the most mature way to do it but very understandable and so I think over time it has you think within Christian denominations right so so many hundreds and hundreds every time a church splits it's because someone thinks that they know something right that the other people do not know or they believe that they can somehow agree on stuff that this other group cannot agree on and I think you know it's difficult to ever say if your starting place is that we're all going to agree on everything I think you sort of fail at the start to kind of link back to what we've already discussed I always feel like God is always bigger than anything we can ever understand that our task is to try and it's that effort to try that helps shape us over time but to presume that we have figured out that God is this box it's just a fallacy I I treasure difference treasure distinctiveness the same way I want my children to treasure distinctiveness and not have to blend into some great homogenized whole I think the challenge is to affirm difference without letting that difference lapse into hostility or antagonism but seems to me that identity either individually or communally depends upon acts of distinction and I think strives for distinctiveness if that doesn't doesn't mean we don't recognize commonality across those distinctions but I treasure it you know in the in our faith tradition we have a recognition a few layers of brotherhood so first there is one of the early Islamic scholars Laveau's Adi recognized a few different layers of brotherhood so they said first there's the Adam II of the the children of Adam the Brotherhood and sisterhood amongst the children of Adam that there is a universal brotherhood that exists there and then it becomes a Brahimi an Abrahamic that there is another closeness or a distinction of Abrahamic brotherhood those who who who claim the father Abraham peace be upon him and then there is the brotherhood with in Christ and Islam and that Muslims also affirm a position a unique distinction in position of Jesus Christ peace be upon him and then there is a muhammediye which is the Muhammad's those who believe in the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him affirming a brotherhood amongst themselves but then it's really interesting because these obviously get closer and closer and closer and there are differences even amongst the followers of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him but the verse in the Quran and every time I get asked what my politics are I say that there's one verse in the Quran that sums up my politics well I thought column not any atom we have honored and dignified the child of Adam and so the children of Adam are to be dignified when there are political agendas at play division is the tool of people in power to distract to distract you from from actually focusing on what's keeping society down so division is a very it's very easy to point to someone who's different than you and say that's your problem not me and if you figure that problem out then everything will suddenly disappear and so in you know I don't want to get too political here not yet at least that I want you guys to like me at least for the first 30 minutes because once I start getting too political they see but what I would say is that that's where that's where sectarianism that's where division becomes ripe is when there is an agenda at play and there's something to be gained from dividing people and it's just a simple question that we should ask who benefits from our division who benefits from this idea of the clash of civilizations extremist groups here and abroad of different faiths and flavours all all you know are able to fester because of these this this idea that civilizations are a constant and constant strife and that two groups of people cannot get along and so we have to always be in strife and always be fighting the other so that we don't actually rectify ourselves and I'll follow that thread we often talk about differences as problematic and so when I've been to interfaith discussions like this or even interdenominational ecumenical or anything like that it does seem like there's a tendency to want to reduce things down to the most common denominator right so to try and go water it down and distill it down as far as we can so that we're all the same rather than acknowledging the differences and then seeking to understand them and it's that lack of understanding of the differences that exist that I think actually causes a lot of the mistrust and the growth of hatred and perhaps even allows people like us to to allow I suppose that kind of hate and bigotry and intolerance to hate to say thrive but maybe well I I do so I'll be political so you don't have to be so but I think the part of the part of what the current cultural climate does I think is give disagreement a bad name because difference and distinction means disagreement and disagreement again can be a very healthy engine if it's in a healthy society Omar and I disagree we have lots of serious and deep conversations with one another as colleagues and friends and there are things we agree on clearly and there are things we disagree on clearly those disagreements are precious to me they help me clarify my own thinking they force me to develop empathy for the thinking of someone for whom I have boundless regard and so I think that the problem is that now that everything is so toxic we become afraid of disagreement right and that's to our own detriment and so I would echo what you're saying Chris I think that the the the lowest common denominator thing is not only misrepresentative and dull it's dangerous because it casts disagreement somehow as kryptonite and thereby limits our capacity to understand each other ok so I want to be a little more personal and reflective for each of you for a moment in your tradition and in your faith identity what is the most beautiful or loving part of that that you value the most just in your personal identity as as your purpose 8 that you live what is it that you say when I wake up in the morning this is what I love about being Who I am and the faith that I hold dear you shall love the stranger for you were strangers in the land of Egypt you stay a little bit more for people yeah I'm not the sound guy again rabbi Stern if a higher church voice I'd use it you shall love the stranger for you were strangers in the land of Egypt the reminder that the recognition of the dignity and the divinity inherent in the other is at the core of the Jewish covenant with God that is a source of pride and beauty to me and as Chris said earlier that doesn't mean there's always a difference between the doctrine and how it's enacted by complicated communities that doesn't mean that we get it right all the time I would even try to guess a percentage of the time that we get it right but that is a horizon of decency and justice and holiness for me that I am that I feel blessed that it shines a light on my way so I would from at the theological level the I would say clarity as a Muslim there's there's great clarity in our theology as to who God is what his attributes are we begin everything that we do in the name of God the most compassionate the most merciful that's how we there's a very personal relationship that we're able to develop with God and so we call upon him in the name of God the most compassionate the most merciful there's also a connection to to a multitude of prophets so i you know i when i speak to someone who is jewish i learn as they are speaking about the old testament and some of the stories of the prophets that came before because in my tradition we affirm those prophets and when we speak of jesus christ peace be upon him danaiah then i can relate to that i take great interest and who he was and what his mission was and and have something to relate to there so there is a there's this there's a wholesome theological clarity but then at the societal level Islam has a very clear social justice tradition it's a liberation theology at its core that's that that's what's made it appealing to many of the great civil rights leaders and activists that we that we that we've had and enjoyed in this country and elsewhere there's a there's a great there's an explicit anti racism tradition the last sermon of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was or the second sentence of that last sermon was that there's no superiority of a white man over a black man or of an Arab over a non-arab there's an explicit anti racism tradition there's an explicit tradition of treating people with dignity and with honor and with love and compassion even if they don't belong to your faith so they're it's it's the how pristine those concepts are and we can find a lot of those concepts that are under you know they're at the core of our messages of loving the neighbor do to others which you would want to be done to you those are things but I'd say this that I often find that that a lot of the things that people think about Muslims are actually true about Christ are true about Moses are true about what I mean by that is that I think that the sanitizing of Christ the sanitizing of Moses the sanitizing of these great prophets you know and I say peace be upon them and it might annoy annoy you sometimes but that we say that after the name of the prophets and and consistently that Jesus was a man that was radically devoted to justice and I can appreciate that and yes yes there's turned the other cheek but there's also there's also a Jesus that was angry when there was injustice and that spoke out against it and I think that when you look at the prophets of God they were not they were not pacifists in the sense that they did not take a passive attitude towards the injustice in their societies they were not merely theology but their theology transformed their societies and they were able to connect that to the vulnerable and profits were never popular with power structures so you know power structure is always appropriate and commodify profits but they were never popular with power structures and so to me that's what I can draw from that explicit social justice tradition that's amplified in the lives of all of those prophets as they're told within the Islamic corpus I think in for Christian different Christian groups there are moments in the story of Christ that seem fundamental perhaps the number one most important and that's perhaps shifted for me some in my life but in my as an adult what has meant most to me is the idea of the Incarnation right when Christ was incarnate in the world God came into the world present in this person of Jesus of Nazareth there's so much that can be done with that idea so much richness that we can understand about God's compassion and love and presence faithfulness but where I think that impacts me is in the social sense that every person in this room God's incarnation happens with each one of us in small ways that we have God in us right that God Ness is something that comes in us period it's not something we can lose and there are plenty of Christian traditions I think in theological ideas that sort of starts with we are bad and need to become good and I think that there's plenty that says that we are good and lose our way and that there's this constant return and turning and reconciliation that happens on our journey and it's that turn and repentance over and over and over again because gods in US and it's an inconvenient truth for me as a Christian that God is in every person because I don't like every person and even the people who cut me off on the street or who yell at me or who do frustrating things or who hurt other people you name it God still there somewhere could be so so buried but we're called to love God and love our neighbor and we're called to love our neighbor because God's in there somewhere and it's through the love that we share with one another that we help that kind of blossom and shine as we as I noticed the time I believe the women of st. Michael will be collecting those questions so pass them to an end I think this way and then we'll have a second round of our questioning in process but we have plenty plenty to talk about and wonder about together I'm mindful of the fact that we are all people of books one book a holy book that is central to the story and of course how we read our sacred texts is very important and so I'm just wondering sort of the approach the literal approach the metaphorical approach how does each tradition speak to the reading of sacred texts whether through worship or study and how is that how it might there be differences amongst the different faith traditions or even better to understand similarities in the big Christian pantheon of denominations there are so many answers to that question as an Anglican Christian Episcopalian Anglican Christian we root ourselves in Scripture first and then develop from Scripture through our tradition and then we welcome in the idea of reason so our actual experience our faithful experience in the world is meant to also inform how we live so scripture is central it is the beginning but I think there are lots of Christians who have start from a place of liberalism and I will tell I tell my Bible studies and groups that I don't think that it's good to read the Bible literally I would much prefer that you read it literately and that reading it literately is what most don't do because most haven't actually read the whole thing and it's not until you see how grand it really is that I think you can appreciate the complexity it is just it's not possible to read our both the Old and New Testaments literally because they literally contradicted themselves throughout the texts right and so that those kinds of specific contradictions are okay so long as you are a literate reader and a faithful reader I like to tell children when we give them copies of the Bible that it isn't a book but it's really a library of books and that you can't simply go front to back as if it's chapter 1 and chapter 2 of 1 nice novel but instead it's this rich incredible poetic and narrative and historic collection of different stories that sort of turn the crystal of truth and you can't just ever pick one verse and say that is everything although people do it all the time right you can find a verse in the Bible to defend pretty much anything that's not a literate understanding and so it's incumbent upon us to go at it as both intellectual but also faithful and to let it speak to us over time and to continue to read it all the time but I'm gonna guess that more Christians than not have never read the whole thing and that's probably a good place to start so there is a social experiment where you guys can look it up online there's a person I believe it was done in the Netherlands who took a copy of the Bible but wrapped it with a cover of the Quran I've seen oh yeah it's like a street and you should look this up read this read this verse from the Quran and people would read it and go oh my god that's I can't believe it says that they are they are who we thought they were that's right right and he takes off the the wrapper and shows it's a Bible and so it's actually quite and this is so as Muslims we believe in the original format of those texts as they were revealed to their - to the prophets again we hold all of these people as prophets and there were original revelations that over time different translations and different versions may have departed from the original text but it's really interesting because and I'm just gonna this is in defense of my faith and and you know David you know how much I love you so don't get offended by this all right but uh if statistically speaking if you take the verses of violence from the Old Testament the New Testament and the Quran the percentage of the Old Testament don't get mad I'm not bad all right let's keep this yeah it's like 5.8% the New Testament was 2.8 the Quran was 2.3 so we're we're pretty you know closer but we win but but it's it's it's interesting to me because Islamophobes an extremist preach the exact same Islam yeah I mean I'm not gonna lie the President and and you know some of those people they sound exactly alike when they talk about my religion I'm like you guys should get in the room and talk about your Islam and can you keep it somewhere and can we build a wall and keep you guys on one side so that the rest of the 1.8 billion Muslims in the world can keep practicing the way they've been practicing the Quran is to us the Word of God it is it is the literal word of God to us so it's it's a little different in that sense from a theological perspective the the role that the Quran plays in the life of the Muslim for 1400 years that's been preserved in its original text there are no versions of the flam and Muslim Muslims throughout history have intentionally maintained the original recitation of the Quran in Arabic and that's why though there are many translations of the Quran and it was translated into persian by one of the Companions of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him still there is this insistence sort of like Syria Christianity right the Persian Church in the fourth century and 5th century recited and you know and Syriac to stay as close to the Aramaic of Christ peace be upon him so there's this insistence on the originality of the text and maintaining the text and reading the text as it is and that's part of the beauty of it in that uniformity that you can have a child in in China or a child in Somalia and they're all reciting the exact same Quran so for 1,400 years there's that consistency that's there with the fourth it's about 600 pages it is memorized by millions of people around the world it's memorized by thousands of people in Dallas if you're scared poof thousands and loosed thousands of people that memorize the Koran word for word here in Dallas Texas right that's or maybe honey no we got thousands I think we got thousands we got a lot of a lot of schools here I shouldn't have said that right but um but the point being is that we have that uniformity right that's maintained by the recitation of the Quran however there's a clear understanding that the interpretation of the Quran is in the life of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him so for example if you were to take a verse of the Quran and say the Quran encourages domestic violence it tells you to beat your wives but then the wife of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him says that he never hit a woman or a servant to her child the interpretation of the Quran in Islamic theology is the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him because if you want to miss translate something if you want to take a word or take a verse out of context I don't care if you're reading Harry Potter right I don't care what you're reading you could turn it into a violent scripture so the interpretation of the Quran starts with the way that it was practiced by the prophet and his companions and then then it goes to scholarship and language and and there are certainly verses of the Quran that have to be read in context just like any book in any scripture so that they do not beat so that they are not hijacked by people that either are to be made extreme through it or people that are to try to portray the face as extreme so the Quran is sacred to us it is the Word of God it's the speech of God to us but there's context there's interpretation but we also have principles that govern the interpretation so that that uniformity is still maintained I think that's one of the things that we we take pride in there's people praying the same way in reciting the Quran all over the world in different contexts and I've been doing so for over millennia how common would the understanding be that muhammad is his life is actually sort of the way in which you interpret the rest of it i don't know that i've heard anyone say it like that before so this is where ninety ninety percent usually when you hear sunni shia you're thinking about iraq or iran because that's in the geopolitical terminology that's when it starts to come about but the vast majority of Muslims around the world are which means soon which is the life of the Prophet the way of the Prophet peace be upon him but that means is that his life and his words are authoritative they they have they carry authority and they they are the first place to go to and interpreting the plan otherwise the interpretation is not governed by any by any anything that is divine itself and so we believe that the prophets spoke in a way that was divine and they acted in a way that was divine so every prophet was infallible in this level so the prophets lived the message in the best way and so you look to them first and then you have differences and obviously evolving contexts and sometimes where some texts might not be appliable applicable so I think that we try to have a balance between the letter and the spirit of the law you know try to maintain both and certainly benefit from the wisdom of other texts the wisdom of other scholars the wisdom we we take from stories of the Old Testament and stories of the prophets that came before but then the authority what is the final authority if you will that's that's where it becomes that way I'm interested to know what David's gonna say here because when I listen to you talk about interpreting through the Prophet I mean I think for for Christians where we most often almost every time disagree is not what Jesus said or did it's all the other stuff and as a as Kris what do you mean by all the other stuff yeah well say what are you talking about yeah well for example like letters of Paul right where Paul as a as a I mean say a prophet an apostle was planting churches all over the place and then when those churches would run into trouble or they didn't understand something or someone would ask a question then they would write to him and then he would write them back and so his letters in case that's not commonly understood he's answering a specific group of people in a specific place about a specific question or questions but what often happens is that specific answer for those people is then extrapolated to everyone in all time everywhere and it's often where it flies in the face of perhaps what we see about Jesus is kind of radical inclusion right he always did the stuff that people didn't like and we naturally kind of our human nature is to begin to take what is very broad and narrow it and most of the time I think if you look back in the way the different denominational groups have split over time it's often about theology that roots itself in not the Gospels and I often will in Bible studies encourage people to say okay so you read that say in an Old Testament book or in a New Testament letter what do you think based on how Jesus lived that the answer might be and it's that step of interpreting through the Prophet or through Christ that I don't see happen as often as I wish can I if I if I may here this is something that reading into a lot of times we try to read into scripture what's not there but we want it to be there so badly that we will twist concepts so that I can't so that we can somehow validate our own approaches and our our our intentions and that's very dangerous when you're reading scripture that you either look solely for inspiration when you want to so the the Holy Scripture turns into you know a website of quotes so I'm looking for a good quote for my wedding card I'm looking for a good quote on the word search keyword searches and stuff like which which now that there is not for that there's a lot for the calamity you know you can you can literally do that so I'm looking for a verse on this right now yet but it's not it's just to give me some sort of inspiration right now to make me feel good about my situation or to quote at somebody so rather than religion being a tool or scripture being a tool that humbles me and then instructs me I abuse it to instruct or judge or throw at somebody without living it at all the most beautiful description of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him that that I found and it's challenging is that his wife was asked after he passed the way she said how would you describe him you could describe him in one sentence and she said he was a walking foot on that's how she described he was a walking ad to me that's beautiful because a lot of times we know this is clergy there's that great play that was that that was that I forgot I think it was called the Christians actually it was about a clerk yeah yeah yeah you guys all yeah so the the departure once you're in the public space especially as clergy you in in the process of preaching it's very easy to fall into hypocrisy and very easy to have a different life at home and be perceived in such a different way by your family and by those who see you frequently and I think that's across the board for for clergy or public figures as a whole so hearing his wife describe him as a walking foot on that means that he practiced everything that he preached and to me that is the ultimate goal is that this is the standard this is perfection this is where I need to get to whether it's in my family life and my social life and community life and there's some times where you read the stories of these sages and you say well I can't get there and sometimes actually discouraging like these stories of selflessness and sacrifice and mercy and compassion that is so far beyond anything that I've ever been able to strive for so sometimes it's like well that was them and so I'm you know I'm not going to even try to do what's in my capacity for me the way I read that is this is the standard this is what I need to try to attain this is what I need to try to get to though I never will be I never will be Christ I never will be Muhammad I know we'll be Moses I can try to be those people I can try to be those men and I can try my best to live up to what they did and so the scripture the text has to challenge me to get better not be used by me to make me complacent with my situation or worse to for nefarious you know for nefarious aims I'll be a little contrarian because I think this isn't distinction first why to talk about Bible study here at st. Michael is to what you have to recognize the history of superb Bible teaching that's taken place in this church that's the first thing of which Chris is a discipline which Chris carries forward in in splendid ways so I want to say that I also should say which I should have said the beginning which is that on on Omar's behalf and on my own to thank you all for your hospitality and having us here tonight certainly better parking here than I get a temple manual I I get the trope of Jesus Mohammed Moses but I think to would you it doesn't really ring true right for a couple reasons first Judaism for Judaism classically the incarnation of God is in the word and everyone after that is a teacher or interpreter of the word I don't walk around telling our religious school kids to emulate Moses because Moses does some stuff I don't want them to emulate I don't really think frankly the Bible is a book for children we need to filter it very clearly and closely whether it's five percent or two-and-a-half percent or whatever it might be I'm yeah no part but but this is but this is to the point that not and I only speak for the Hebrew Bible which is really the only one I know it is not it would be a mistake to look at every verse of that document and assume it to be prescriptive right when you cite what one army did to another army which would go into the five and a half percent have I mentioned that which we go in with which would go into the five and a half percent that's not there as a prescription it's there as a description through certain human eyes of something that took place you know alongside some river between two warring armies i similarly do not read every verse of moses as something that says emulate what's happening in this verse some verses i do right moses is certainly revered in the tradition particularly for his humility and so when we talk to kids about humility we talk about moses as a model of humility but i think the idea that the best way to understand the word is how it was enacted by x figure is probably not a Jewish idea it lends itself to a certain kind of hagiography which I think Judaism resists and I believe so now to go back to Amy's question if you were to let's say that each of these traditions has a range from and I'm not using fundamentalists as a dirty word here I'm using it as sort of meaning the literalist end of the spectrum of interpretation right so let's say each of our traditions has a fundamentalist end of the spectrum people who read the sacred writ with a particular literalist frame and then a more metaphoric interpretive liberal reading let's call it okay without attaching any contemporary meanings to those words the in Judaism even the most fundamentalist reader okay if you go into the most traditional Academy of Jewish study and you look at the page of scripture that they're studying literally what you will see is in the center of the page a rectangle that might have six or eight lines of scripture and then it is completely surrounded on all four sides by commentary if you can see that picture in your mind that is how Jews read scripture that it begins with divine revelation and then it is not only accessible to but it depends upon human interpretation to reincarnate what is already incarnate in the word itself so that's why I would think in general I'm not saying that Judaism doesn't have its instances of hagiography and holding up people as the best and brightest embodiment of sacred call but in general we're going to look to the word and the application of our own wisdom and the wisdom of the tradition to the word more than we're gonna look to specific into individuals as the embodiment of the word thank you do we have to go to the next question it reminds me of Romney's what was a 48% moment or for me so yeah I would this is a this is actually one of the things that I actually deeply enjoy about our discussion is if we're gonna talk about it from a purely theological perspective so how do we reckon with this I think that every generation is going to be challenged with how much access how much unique access do you have to text the previous generations did not so what emphasis do we place on consensus so for me you know looking at looking at every Muslim as capable of accessing the text and deriving their own interpretations is very dangerous I'm not saying that suggested yeah I got you so there has to be a layer now in Islam we don't have the hierarchy within the you know as a similar to both of the traditions up here that we don't have a hierarchy beyond the Prophet Mohammed peace be upon them so scholars are judged by the Sunnah by the practice of the Prophet not vice-versa so if the Islamic scholar comes and says I've discovered something that for 1400 years hasn't been there and this is when it's all it's meant all along and nobody else got it right then we're not going to take that scholar very seriously however context evolved and we also and I'll say this just as we look to the past and this is a really difficult thing for people to swallow sometimes we love to judge the past and to think that everything and everyone in the past was behind us and that we we somehow represents this epitome or or the most refined version of morality now in the 21st century here in the United States give me a break seriously give me a break I mean there's a saying that that uh that if I was and I got to get this right because I always mix up the two terms that I was a conservative 20 years ago and today I'm a liberal and I have not changed the single one of my views or Knox's office if it was a liberal 20 years ago and today I'm a conservative and I haven't changed a single one of my views so everything is changing the way we view morality is changing the way we view our social contexts are constantly evolving but can we look back and say every body in the past had it wrong on this and this and this not now there are some things that we can say that for sure all right but then just in general the lenses and how we perceive society and I'll give you you know when we're talking about the profits in particular the profits of God so in Islam we we would remove any attachment of immorality to the prophets and we would ascribe that to human innovation that these were men that came afterwards that ascribed immoralities to the prophets as opposed to immoralities of the prophets themselves committed and I think this is where it gets tricky because if you're and it's a question that we have to wrestle with Old Testament New Testament the god of Judaism the god of Christianity the God of Islam we started off this discussion by saying it's the same God while laws changed and prescriptions changed the very nature and essence of God who legislated and who reveals was the same God and so God was not was never immoral God was never cruel God was always merciful God is always most gracious and compassionate and just and so legislation that we look back on or scripture that we look back on it we go yeah either we're misunderstanding it or miss applying it or we can I mean I could say confidently that there are many things that are ascribed to many pro2 to the prophets that I reject as a believer of those prophets and I'm offended on their behalf yes when I when I hear certain things ascribe to the prophets of the past so - there's a there's an out there there's truth to what you're saying in the sense that it's not well I would just push back it's not the prophets themselves it's those that interpreted what they wanted to of the prophets and just like what you had mentioned we usually get in trouble with those that came afterwards in Islam we usually get stuck with what some jurist in 9th century Baghdad right okay that's where we usually get stuck because we want to honor that jurist cuz he was great in many ways but then it's like you see that sentence in this book and you're like tonight can we just take that out can I you know when we don't use whiteout anymore we just you know but how do we take that out so that's where we get stuck as well usually I have a question what about the what about the potential for an arc of moral growth of one of these figures over time is that anathema or is that possible I wanted to follow up sort of on that idea of immorality that there was where's their humanity a prophetic like that problems that they encounter the mistakes that they make as they are human rather than taking that away as something that was put on them later did I hear that right I think so in Islam we our our definition of infallibility to the prophets is that they were incapable of major sin or of ascribing to God a partner so they were capable of mistakes of slip-ups of minor sin but they were not capable of major sin so that's where that's where the Islamic definition of prophets or how we categorized their mistakes and you got to understand that sometimes when I say I believe in Christ or I believe in Moses or I believe in Abraham that does not mean that as a Muslim I believe in every story about Christ Abraham or Moses peace be upon them all that is found within Judaism and Christianity and let's face it that within Christianity and Judaism right there is there are different interpretations of who these men were and who these people were and so you know I think I'm talking too much now but I'm gonna just I would just say that that's where it still goes to the man that told us the stories of those prophets who compiled those stories of those prophets and which stories made it through and then how were those stories that were told by men interpreted by other men that then reached us and so that's where that's where I would I would say that we have to we have to be as critical of that or we have to start there before we go to the prophets themselves and say hey you know that that's something that that I reject with the Prophet himself you don't agree so a challenge yes you you were the first one I know you guys put me in the middle for a reason [Laughter] isn't that a form of sanitizing we do we'd use the word you would talked about sanitizing before in terms of you know that we we whitewash the the prophetic and justice anger of these figures is it a form of sanitizing to say that if there's anything uncomfortable that's attributed to the Prophet I'm going to say the problem is in the attribution not and the Prophet isn't that in and of itself a form of sanitizer that's a good question I and I would say that it would be sanitizing if before I look to the attribution I look to what I like and don't like and then I toss it out or accept it on that basis but I will scrutinize every attribute I yeah so in Islam we have you know we have a very strict method of scrutinizing Hadees which are sayings of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him there are some hadiths that are so beautiful but they're not authentic from an Islamic perspective like if I'm true to the signs of hadith and I'm just like I wish it was authentic because I love it and I love this attribution I love the story but it's not it's not something I can describe so as a Muslim I start from that place is the attribution authentic or not if it is then what's the context I want to understand the context because I cannot believe that a man who was used as a vehicle of God's revelation himself lived an immoral life so I need to I need to look at that I need to look at the attribution then look at the incident itself if I've determined that the attribution is authentic then what is it that took place and how do i how do i grapple with that particular incident what I find interesting about this is that for for Christianity the the root idea is God's redemptive work in the world right into Redemption is a change and so mistakes and problems aren't a problem because it's just true and we're all in that same boat together and it's I might steal David's word that arc that redemptive work over time not necessarily just a single individual although yes there's that too but it's also as a world like the idea of a kingdom of heaven is not this other thing but it's something we work toward now right then we are working we are redemptive agents in the world and are called to spread that that redemptive truth of God and so to say that even our prophets weren't part of that work to me kind of undermines I think what the Christian kind of root of redemption really is so it goes to the definition of a prophet and Islam and then it goes to the definition of what we classify as a major sin so the story of Adam and Eve is the story of mankind that Adam who's a prophet made a mistake so the major sin here when I when I class a major sin that that you know I'm talking about murder I'm talking about the you know I'm talking about a different category there's a very specific category of major sin in Islam but redemption would occur with all of the prophets with all of the stories of great people and there are stories of redemption that are told by the prophets themselves so the the work of God the entire the entire concept of salvation in Islam is that you do your best but your God is most compassionate Most Merciful and so so long as he finds you on the day of judgment having tried your best to attain that mercy then his mercy will will overcome your shortcomings and so there's a saying of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him that no one enters paradise by virtue of their good deeds but instead by the mercy of God that does not mean free pass you don't have to do anything that means you will do your best you will strive but you will fall short because you were created in a way that you you are meant to fall short but it is ultimately the mercy and the redemption of God that will overwhelm you and enter you into paradise but that doesn't mean my point is that the vehicles of God's revelation the prophets themselves and again this would take a lot of deconstruct sure because who tells us the stories of Christ which stories of Christ are authentic from a historical perspective if we were to take a step back and judge it from a purely objective perspective whose story of Christ wins and becomes mainstream whose story of Moses wins and becomes mainstream there are that the methods of extraction are different as well amongst ourselves and so with that there are certain stories that maybe you're thinking of when I say that you're gone huh so I'll give you an example Noah well give me the story he was naked and drunk on the beach we have so that we don't read that part in church so so that that attribution from an Islamic perspective we don't have that attribution in our text of Noah there yeah so what would make your attribution more historically accurate than my attribution to Noah do you understand what I'm saying here it's more fun it's more fun and you know I was I was talking to a young Muslim the other day was taught you know we have the story of sacrifice the sacrifice of Abraham that Abraham sacrificing his son now Jews say it's Isaac Muslim Said's Ishmael but how could a man sacrifice his son how could God command a man to sacrifice his son and the Islamic answer to that is that Abraham saw a dream that he interpreted that way but that that was not God never commanded him explicitly go slaughter your son and that's where the miracle took place and it was a ram rather than his son so we don't attribute immorality to the prophets mistakes they made mistakes but those mistakes would not compromise the integrity of the message that they had and that's where that that's where the difference lies I think all right I'm gonna pull us back a little bit from the wonderful text great door that I opened not it's like overhearing geeky theology [Laughter] practicalities in all traditions head covering is a part what does that mean why is there head covering in the various forms that it exists within each of the religions for men and for women and isn't only for it times of worship throughout the culture what is the role of head covering I was in Christianity it is absolutely about humility before God no question I mean how many of you grew up either Catholic and I definitely saw my grandmother cover her head when we went to church no question you would not go into a church without a scarf or they kind of look like doilies I don't know but certainly out of humility humility for being in God's presence he ever isn't it ironic the difference between how a Muslim woman who covers her head is perceived in a nun that has nothing to do with the media that has nothing to do with conditioning or engineering so I would look here's the thing in our tradition and Muslims love being asked about their faith and not told about their faith like usually here's how an interaction interfaith dialogue for me usually is this walking out of Walmart you guys and then it's gone you know it's like okay well we could have had an exchange that's all the interfaith monologue yeah I have those like six times yet there are Muslim women that are here today that cover their heads ask a Muslim woman how she feels about her head covering and if anyone forced it upon her or if it was a choice that she made at some point in her life as a means of devotion and humility before God and I guarantee you that you'll be surprised by the answer so you have I'm actually inviting you all the sister I see a few sisters here you're good with being asked about your hijab in the story or hey ok good you're all good with that so you may ask them that question don't ask me that question and ask ask those sisters because when they decided to cover their heads and why they decided to cover their heads it isn't in this America in 2018 hats off literally to the Muslim women in in this country that insists on their Americanist and insist on their identity because what they are doing is an act of resistance to bigotry because they're insisting that there is no that is an insistence that know I will be an accomplished woman I would and whatever that accomplishment looks like and I will insist on my religious identity and it is just as oppressive to force a woman to take her head covering off than the force that her put it on so when you see France and you see a woman on the beach you know who's wearing the bikini god forbid a woman on the beach wearing a swimsuit that covers her entire body in her hair because she wants to enjoy the beach but she also wants to abide by her religious obligations and you've got police officers going to the beach and humiliating that woman and stripping you know stripping her of that of the of her identifying cloth and then doing that in the name of secularism and modernity and progress that's the point we need to look to what we need to accuse our own our own lenses and our own constructs and I'll let Muslim women speak for themselves as to why they chose to cover and why they what what they feel about that obligation other thing I throw in is because you can do a nice I assume you could do it in other traditions also certainly in Judaism you could if you wanted to be if you wanted to prejudge you could look on a bus in Israel and based on the kind of weather it's woven whether it's velvet how big how small you could like people who really know Israeli sociology could actually tell you a lot about a person right now we're and again it's a prejudgment but there's head covering and then it get like as we said from the very beginning it's also sometimes used as a sociological marker well speaking of sociological markers talk about interfaith marriage what does each religion say about it repeat the question interfaith marriage what does each religion say or teach about interfaith marriage Omar I just spoke for like 15 minutes yeah you guys gave one-word answers so it's a lot harder to say something with just a few words don't you think so is the question what what our traditions teach about interfaith marriage or just say about I just want to point out it's not the rabbi who answered a question with a question yes I think is I think it's a sense my guess is behind the question having not written it is this sense of is it acceptable is it in traditional Jewish law it's prohibited in contemporary Jewish practice there are many rabbi specifically rabbis of my denomination who would officiate you would never find an Orthodox rabbi officiate an interfaith wedding you would actually and and a conservative currently the current regulation of the conservative rabbinic Organization is that if a conservative rabbi officiates at an interfaith wedding they're expelled from the organization so it's so it's a strong traditional prohibition in the more progressive and liberal denominations that there are plenty of rabbis who do officiate I would certainly say that there isn't explicit tea this is one of those moments where I cannot speak for Christianity right but I think that in most cases individual clerics have some flexibility on how they approach this most of the time marriage is considered kind of in that pastoral category certainly as Anglicans or as Episcopalians and I would say probably Orthodox or Romans it is sacramental and when a sacrament when a sacramental moment is shared that is a set that is shared among people who believe in that sacramental experience however there is flexibility in that I think it depends on a personal in our tradition we are not compelled to marry anybody and I have declined multiple couples just because you know God knows they're not supposed to be married sorry and so if it's different I mean I wouldn't say that that we have a responsibility for to baptize someone who wishes to be baptized that we were responsibility to bury someone that needs to be buried that those are those are responsibilities that we share but things like marriage is I think it a reforming of Family and starting something new and most I would say most Christian clergy would really want to encourage a Christian identity in that new family even if perhaps someone did not come out of a Christian tradition that would still be very strongly encouraged for sure so within the Muslim community to the preservation of identity the Quran was revealed over 23 years so the way we look in the Quran was not revealed in one shot but rather between the age of 40 and 63 of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and so it was dealing with the evolving context as well when Muslims were in Mecca which is the earlier part of the revelation the first 13 years there was an absolute prohibition on interfaith marriages so Muslim men and Muslim women could not marry non-muslim men or non Muslim women and there was also a prohibition on eating meat slaughtered by anyone that was not Muslim so those are sacrifices obviously a big part of the Abrahamic story so the the sacrifices of others were it was not accepted when the Muslims moved to Medina when the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him moved to Medina there is a vibrant Jewish community and actually the first constitution in the world according to some historians was the constitution of Medina you could actually look it up where Muslims and Jews agreed upon certain obligations to one another and certain things to each other at that point there was a verse that was revealed in the Quran that relaxed the prohibition for men Muslim men marrying Jewish or Christian women and relaxed or did away with the prohibition of eating sacrifice eating the meats of Christians and Jews and that was in that new interaction that was taking place so certainly even with that relaxation of prohibition on Muslim men being able now to marry Jewish women and Christian women it still was not encouraged that was discouraged actually very early on and in the in an effort to preserve the Islamic identity within the marriage but when it comes to food thankfully I can eat kosher yeah and we got some really good kosher food and dogs is it it's better in New Orleans where this is a hangout with rabbi Chloe but Muslims can eat halal and they can eat kosher so they can eat meat that's slaughtered by Christians and Jews as well as Muslims and I got me a little hungry and is there one requirement to be who your faith is there one requirement all right can you think of a requirement to be your faith tradition are we doing a conversion right now yeah in our tradition it is the testimony of faith which is not an alum Mohammed almost a little odd that I bear witness that there's only one God worthy of worship and unconditional obedience and that Muhammad is final messenger and that statement affirms six articles of faith which is belief in one God and and monotheism belief in the messengers and prophets belief in the scriptures belief in the angels belief in the day of judgment and belief in divine decree and predestination so that's those are the six pillars of faith that are implied in the statement but it's fun to make someone think when they're about to become Muslim that we're gonna also baptize and we're gonna we've got a pool in the back of the mosque so that kind of their eyes get really why also when someone becomes Muslim the way that Muslims celebrate as they say Allahu Akbar and if you haven't warned a person before they become Muslim that everybody in the mosque is about to chant Allah Akbar and they've been watching certain news channels yeah they get really scared that's always I always try to make it a point to explain like that's how they're gonna celebrate it doesn't mean they're gonna kill you it means they're about to come hug you so [Laughter] Christianity is definitely an orthodoxy so it is grounded in right belief and the belief being that God's redemptive work in the world was made complete through the incarnation of Christ and that our move toward redemption and salvation is through the belief in Christ and the rest of it is details that people need to feel good but that is that's the common starting place I think Judaism is distinguished here also tends to put plenty of emphasis on deed as well as on Creed if you wanted to look historically the Jews or people before they get to Mount Sinai so they're actually identified and behaving as a people before they enter into the formal signing of the Covenant in general what you end up with in later rabbinic Judaism is sort of two core ideas what's called Elohim ahout and all Hammad's vote Ohama hoot is the yoke yok II of God's sovereignty and vomits vote is the yoke of the commandments and that one way or another there has to be participation in the Covenant both of those days so it's a it is it is both about accepting a notion of one God in all the world as well as accepting in some interpretation a life of musical of living according to covenant in commune I just share with you the coolest Muslim t-shirt that's out there there actually there's actually a t-shirt I cannot be Muslim if I don't believe in Jesus it's actually a t-shirt that some people wear that's pretty cool wow that's good so another question from our gathering tonight what is your biggest fear as it relates to your faith in Dallas and worldwide maybe let's focus on Dallas what is your greatest fear right now and where we are well we're the only community well we're the only Muslim community in America that regularly has white supremacist groups in front of our mosques with long rifles that's pretty scary and it's it's routine it's routine in our community there's no other Texas has 10% of the country's hate groups we have a lot of hate in Texas we have a lot of hate in Dallas and we have had a lot of Islamophobia in Dallas and we have had my she turned 8 last week my 8 year old daughter all you know she asked me the questions she said if Donald Trump becomes president are we gonna be killed and so what children are ingesting and internalizing I'd like to think that and this is I think part of all of our faiths that we we should work with optimism that as a person who believes in God I can't afford to be pessimistic we're playing the long game if we're preaching inclusivity we're preaching love and mercy and tolerance and justice and these ideals that for most people even if they are lived they are not part of the mission of those people as people of clergy of faith people who believe in God and people who want to make Dallas a more loving City we have to be willing or we have to believe that we're gonna give our children a fighting chance to be able to realize that I don't think that dr. King I don't think that dr. King really believed that he would achieve everything that he dreamed of in his own lifetime so for me this is this is pretty bad and with a lot of other izing dr. Greg Robinson who's the foremost scholar on Japanese internment in the United States he has a book by order of the president in which he talks about how the Japanese in particular were able to be treated that way as opposed to Europeans that came from countries that were also hostile to the United States and prevailing racist attitudes allowed for racist policy allowed for discriminatory policy what that means is that it was so it was it was easier to other eyes the japanese-americans than it was the German American or the Italian American or whatever it may be it was easier to authorize them so as a Muslim look it's in our situation it is a statistical fact that Muslims do not commit most acts of terrorism domestically or globally it's statistical you can't argue with it it's objective research data that Muslims do not kill more than other faith groups and that Muslims do not commit most terrorist acts or mass shootings in the United States however the way that a San Bernardino is treated as opposed to a Las Vegas puts us in a situation in which we feel like at times we can't win because we have to defend every lunatic that takes one life or 16 lives whereas other groups of people are given a pass even when a person may be claiming their faith or belong to their their group and could murder 60 people without anyone facing any repercussions for that and our children have to bear the if you think about how unjust that is I wrote an article yesterday that we're not been seeing on CNN and and it's and it was I am NOT your American Muslim and I'm and and to be honest with you I started off with the last detainee at the airport and DFW was Jesus his name was Jesus he was a 33 year old Iraqi man who served the US military and was named Issa which means Jesus and had a broken pelvis because of an attack that he suffered from serving the United States Army and we held him at DFW and he almost died out of pain back there because of the Muslim ban one year ago what does that say about our Christianity what does it say about our patriotism what does that say about everything that we claim to hold near and dear and so it's a losing battle if in order for a Muslim to be dignified they have to be American with a capital a a Patriot with a capital P a Democrat with a capital D or a Republican with a capital R we're just not willing to live up to those standards because you don't have to like me but you have to respect me you you could hate the Quran but you've got to treat me in accordance with the Constitution and so we will insist on our rights and I pray that we're able to form I am optimistic because I do think that we're forming coalition's now that we would not have formed in our complacency that we would not have formed if if the the myth of a post-racial America continued to persist in the media and that that that idea that we've moved beyond all of our rifts and discrimination was able to survive so I think now the it's it's CodeRed it's it's raised we're alert and hopefully that radical hatred is forcing radical love and so I'm optimistic that we'll form coalition's and friendships and relationships that hopefully will give our children a better chance to do away with those divisions [Applause] here in Dallas I think that the most dangerous thing for us is that this is a segregated City I've lived in five major cities and I've not lived in a place that is so separated and I think the separation is maybe not bad for the reason you might think it's it's exposure and it's simply just knowing other people it it is so easy for me in my world of work and school and grocery stores and whatever to really only see people who look like me and who might believe like me way too easy and when that is the case then the natural exposure that we have to people who just aren't like us is so low that we can't otherwise and in places where segregation where there is a big mix you just you kind of have to learn about other people just because they're around you right you're working with them you're shopping with them you're in school with them and you figure out that they're just people and that that I think for Dallas is is probably the heart the biggest hurdle that we have because geography physical division is really difficult to get over really difficult nationally perhaps I think that there is no way to read the story of Christ as a story that is not about incredible lavish abundance abundance always and yet I think that especially Christian groups have not been living abundantly for a while and when we guard ourselves and are concerned about lack and try to shore up what we have to not lose any of it we're not actually living faithfully and that kind of the abundance of God is so tangible and real that if we don't claim that back that confidence and that courage and that love that abundance provides and and empowers us to be we're not going to grow we're not going to be a force for good we're not going to be able to claim our authority for the good that God calls us to be in the world and I think that's that Christian groups particularly in America have have that reckoning that is coming a lot faster than we wish it were I've you worries first is I I sort of believe that anti-semitism is a constant I believe that in some periods in places it's more submerged which I'm very happy for but and I'm really not sort of anti-semitism out a primary shaper of my Jewish identity it is for lots of Jews it's not a primary shaper of my and I say that without judgment it's it's not a primary shaper of my identity but I have an awareness of it I have a sense of vigilance about it I think that we've been relatively fortunate in Dallas but I sort of don't really take it for granted and it may sound paradoxical but the other thing I'm worried about in the sociological category is assimilation that Jewish achievement and Jewish integration gets so cushy that we lose track of who we are as a faith community as an historic community as a distinguished and distinctive so I worry about that and I see that as a big part of my responsibility and I'm going now shifting away from the sociological towards the more explicitly faith dimension of Jewish identity I worry about complacency I worry that we'll take all the parts that are warm and joyous and the connective and self-affirming which thank God there are deep reservoirs of and neglect our obligation to justice neglect our obligation to enter into the space is uncomfortable gotten to collect our obligation to hear the stories that are uncomfortable neglect our obligation to see what's broken and to work to be healers of that breach so I worry that that we don't rise to the level to which our tradition calls us can respond for maybe just faith communities in general I think assimilation is an interesting idea to put forward because one of the things at I grew up in Florida which a lot of people call you know the sixth borough of New York and I had we call it God's ante room God answered that is not wrong so we used to have bumper stickers that said when I am old I will move to Michigan and drive slow so point being though when I grew up I knew I had lots of Jewish friends and every Saturday morning they would trot off to Jew school right and they would learn how to speak in read Hebrew they would learn stories they met friends of mine who were raised in Jewish families did not make the assumption that they would figure out how to be Jewish unless they were taught by their church right by the synagogue or their school or their Community Center and I think that one of the differences that Christian groups have to embrace is our culture is not Christian right it is it is yeah I mean nominally there are some words that perhaps culture uses that have Christian roots or but you know America was founded to be this place of diversity right and of equality and we have slowly almost so slowly that we don't even like to admit it become a place where we still think that people might become Christian just by osmosis of being in America not true and it has not been true and it's really basically not been true for any person in this room right I mean as many generations of not being true and we have yet most Christian groups have yet to cop to that untruth and we do not take seriously enough forming people to be Christian in the way that I think my friends up here their traditions don't make that assumption because that there is nobody thinks that just by being in America you're going to learn how to be a good Muslim right everyone say no no and so we to a place where that tradition is passed on and taught and honored and respected in the same way that that anyone who is Jewish does that and Christians have got to own that more and that's a danger because I think as people of faith all of us will lose if we don't realize the necessity of formation and we just assume it will happen thank you so believe it or not gentlemen it's after 8:30 wait I know zoom whoosh there goes so I can't help but end on a wonderful question I don't know who wrote it it's kind of a circle back to when we've all got together before we came in here and I'm sorry I don't mean to upset the questions tonight have been fabulous there are many many others that I'm sure we're going to figure out a way to address in communication from this evening but here's the last question and I did not write it see what is the best priest rabbi and a mom walk into a bar joke [Applause] I should qualify that can be shared in a mix yes in this room in this sacred space so I told them this earlier I actually when I pulled into my to the parking lot tonight I googled a rabbi a priest and an imam walk in a bar just like figured you have to know one of them right I didn't know any of them and so here's here's what came up right a rabbi a priest and an imam walk into a bar and the bartender looks at them and says what is this a joke I would think that it would be something about you know something about the Muslim being violent the mom hitting someone over the head with a bottle they shared on Howard's even though so yeah I mean it's gonna be one of the stereotypes right but I'm pretty sure it ends with the mom being violent I mean she's gotta be that way so the moms eyes are gonna break the bottle on the bartender's head or or the priest is gonna get it so and yet I think we would all agree that often the better conversations for understanding are going to happen in the bars and the restrooms or around dinner tables then they are going to be in our segregated places of worship on the weekends and so maybe that can be that great takeaway is to find ways in our communities to come together around tables around places where we can engage in conversation and laughter [Applause] no honest hours I was just going to say I don't drink but I'll but I'll say this that david has become my favorite coffee so we've we've done Jabba me up and that's excellent the best we've done and I've got to bring you out there as well so I love coffee all right that's right so real quickly just to end us I want to say a big word of thanks to Amy for moderating us tonight for David and for Omar for being here with us tonight and a thank you to all of you for the women of st. Michael for everyone who helped put this together Saint Michael is really honored that you were here with us tonight in this sacred space for a sacred conversation and we hope that it does not end here for you that perhaps you will stay after for the reception that will be out these doors in our garden cloister our parlour and all over the place stay and have conversation look around the church and see somebody you don't know and go meet them and go ask them who they are and why do they why are they here first of all what do they believe and maybe make a new friend and perhaps we will all continue this dialogue for good that will begin to change our city in our world so thank you all for being here tonight [Applause] I hope the Geoghan goes I'm good

Channel: SMAADallas

Views: 1,579,740

Rating: 4.8669467 out of 5

Keywords: interfaith, dialogue, panel, discussion, dallas, texas, tx, smaa, smaadallas, st michael, saint michael, st michael and all angels, saint michael and all angels, episcopal, church, imam, rabbi, islam, judaism, omar suleiman, david stern, amy heller, temple emanu-el, yaqeen institute, valley ranch islamic center

Id: INIG636SnU4

Length: 93min 36sec (5616 seconds)

Published: Mon Jan 29 2018

Reddit Comments

[u/Lfcsafima]

Wish we could have more muslims like him to represent us