KotD4 | Grand Final (Bo9)

but uh in the magenta or pink we have winchester playing as the mongols to start off the series and then we have the viper playing as the vikings very fun sift matchup nilly uh yeah typically vikings more the eco eco-based civilization and a bit more defensively and winchester potentially dictating the game here quite heavily mongols crazy good at laying and dictating the strategies again yeah um this is a this is an amazing sieve match-up because i feel as though you can clearly get a grasp on how it plays out mongols have a hunt bonus in dark age and a scouting bonus in dark age so they want to steal as many resources as possible prevent you from taking your resources and then use those resources to go feudalist fast and rush you down whereas for vikings they don't have any dark age bonuses but when you're in feudal aging castleage they feel like one of the strongest sieves because they have wheelbarrow and then hand carved for free so winchester running forward much like he did in the semi just to steal some goats and he's actually gone home here nearly so he didn't do anything too crazy uh no attempt to steal a rhino at viper's base yeah they traded off some hp there and winchester tried to go for his rhino quite early shot at once but the rhino didn't follow then just a two on wood and we think viper not unlikely that he will play some defensive men at arms or some archers but the big question is what is winchester going to play yeah uh i feel like if it was 2017 we would not even ask that question i feel like we would just be seeing the scouts here from the mongols uh viper's got to be careful with his scout yep he notices it but um we've been seeing a lot more men at arms with mongols this year nilly uh players realizing that the manadar meta is just so strong and that you can just go 20 pop men at arms which most civs can't compete with and it might not be a bad play up against the vikings because you're normally not expecting uh something different from the vikings so if you can get two men at arms faster than them get to the archer faster than them you're kind of beating them where they can hurt you the most vintages are also a person that loves to play like archer range instant blacksmith and with the extra resources you can afford flashing so much earlier maybe a way to force viper into some problems as well and this is what we're always saying right the two ways to beat the viper first of all put lots and lots of aggression towards him and the weakness in game number one true yeah it's very true viper can be a little slow to start at times you know first game of the day type of a situation he always talks about that as does everyone i think but uh i'm sure that they would have been paying attention to the third place match and i'm sure they would have probably had a game or two like even if they just got in against the ai just to get warmed up i'm sure they'll be not sure viper is a guy that gets some fatigue so i think in the best of nine he's not really the warm-up kind of guy okay yeah i i guess winchester maybe yeah that's another thing we have to bring up is maybe that winchester uh if you can drag this out should get better as the series goes on against viper but what's so weird about me uh about me sorry there's a lot that's weird about me what's so weird about that topic of viper and fatigue is i think that you have a higher chance of beating viper if there's less games in a series but i also understand that there is that fatigue question but it doesn't add up if viper really struggles with fatigue i feel like the longer a set goes the better it should be for people against himself oh yeah well the like longer set stuff is more like the math behind it and the fatigue thing would be like looking at the individual game but well obviously we are starting relatively early for a viper set most of the time he gets the prime time gets the really late ones but this time starting 5 p.m his time yep well a bit earlier than he's normally used to but could be a long day best of nines can easily last four or five hours did you see where these goats came from behind the wood line because i think that's gonna be good for viper here um i don't think those were his i believe that was uh winchester's i'm not sure it's very late uh i think those were winchesters yeah yeah he came from the very left-hand side was left to the stone i believe from winchester okay winchester had to steal two of the vipers earlier yeah i see i see the teeth now yeah all right so viper opening up here looks like range defense nearly and it looks like range offense from winchester nelly i want to hit you with a stat okay nice we didn't see a single scout opening in the semifinals not a single scout opening and we didn't see a single game one with knights okay and here again we have vikings mongols we're not even going to see an even thought of going scouts so something tells me that uh players have figured out that maybe men at arm archer or just archer is the way to go despite how open these maps can be but also yesterday for example viper ben franks today winchester ben franks so that obviously takes away the civilization that arguably is the best with scouts that's true wait wait wait did we have oh no no no we didn't yeah it was archers into dense ghosts incidents number three by viper against tornado yep yeah it just kind of makes me a little sad to be honest like i i you want to see knights having a little bit more success you don't want to see crossbow every game uh but we'll see we'll see what happens i'm sure that with so many sieves and a best of nine we'll probably have something like magyars out there and maybe see that scout rush so this is where vikings start to feel stronger uh dark age wasn't too hot he didn't bring in his food any faster winchester did but wheelbarrow now affects all those villagers and viper sees the spearman sees the archer kind of knows what's coming honestly good position for viper to be in because he hasn't taken any damage and he can just sit back with those eco upgrades winchester's not going for a strategy that really hits you real fast here nilly it's a big or a slow build-up rather oh this is the early fletching that i considered as an option right fletching finishing at 11 15 but only one archer out here while the viper is going for skirmisher defense to open this one up i don't see vince defining a lot of damage yeah and viper just delays his blacksmith a little bit more so he gets his blacksmith he clicks fletching like we're also going for horse collar you've been seeing this a lot with these archer openings man i think again two years ago you see archer opening you're skipping a lot of horse collar but if it's just straight archers players have been going for the horse collar upgrade they know there's going to be adding a lot of farms they don't want those farms to expire and teams like an approach that viper definitely took against jordan actually if both players are going for the archer range you know okay it's unlikely that i will take a lot of damage i wanted to say but the scout is coming in wow that was that was really good from finch he just swooped in out of nowhere and surprised viper i think viper will be fine but piper won't be happy to see that he lost a range unit there so there's an archer attacking a house on the right side for vince he does have more numbers right now it's just can you get them into the proper position ah it's not that easy right scout intercepting a bit as well from the viper only 20 hp there and it feels like the viper is holding and well two economy upgrades ahead viper looks reasonably solid yep also a little bit of revenge for viper he'll try and kill this archer with the hill bonus he will kill the archer wow viper great job from him there and so this is kind of the spot you want to be at if you are the vikings sitting behind some walls with some archers with some eco upgrades and now mongols are not looking too exciting as viper uses the scout again he will lose the scout but he maybe maybe can kill that archer yeah trying to chase the other archers down and viper he weathered the storm quite nicely of mongols and now honestly mongols they feel like a really generic civilization while vikings they even get their second power spike reaching car stage and free hand cut good news for vince is he still has solid army numbers if he can maintain that and then mix in something else could be good for him but viper's micro here is so good he forces these archers back and will probably get at least one kill here you think there's there's a couple weak ones in there he gets one he gets two and now vince is falling back to go scouts nearly but scouts aren't that devastating when viper has archers in the mix if it was just skirms from viper then viper will be vulnerable so i think viper will be able to deal with that and villagers run away from the berries now i was surprised that he actually took that fight like low archers tried to make some magic happen but piper was just shooting it down now gets control of that hill here and oh viper already close to 400 foot here quite impressive behind this more archer more skirm double arch range play and he is the one in the aggression at 60 minutes that's something that shouldn't really happen if you're mongols the good news for vince is that i think there's a world here where viper doesn't expect the scouts because if you look at how vince is playing this he's just sitting on his hill and he seems rather patient with the situation so viper does have some weak units in there and maybe a finch pops out with these scouts soon he could at least kill this force i think the bad news for vince is the fact that viper's double range his eco is perfect he's almost full walled at this point so even if he kills a little bit of army he's not gonna do any damage to viper's eco and viper will still probably be in castle age faster feels like it floating quite a lot of gold here now and vince look at that two scouts three more in the queue he needs to do damage with that but as you said not going to be too easy because viper's base is already looking quite nice also winchester's like oh i see an army i need to pounce i need to kill this which is great and he's gonna probably kill this but now viper's army is looping around behind and winchester has to have an idea that this army's over here because he doesn't see the same amount of numbers and so winchester reacts to this he actually is able to kill an archer with his bills but he will lose one villager to this and probably more nearly as viper will look towards castle age let's see if he can maybe save his villagers it was only four archers villagers are being pulled one scout is being sent in viper is on the way to castle age floating quite a lot of wood i'm a little surprised viper didn't do more damage there nearly he kind of hesitated on the hill as he was losing his other army but i guess what he did against jordan yesterday was he just played defense and now he's playing at home and he's got scouts and archers and winchester this is not a bad fight for him viper loses most of his army before castle age such a weird placement he knew about the scouts oh man that is really really untypical and that's something we've seen in so many game number one yeah against jordan it looked relatively similar with all the big fights and well i remember the set against casper viper lost lots of control as well but this time the map still feels really solid and i think he will be able to defend still has the army in the back of winchester's base also picked off a villager on the right wood line finches are now having to use the market and finally clicks up and viper quick walls says vil there a villager you would expect to still die because there's range units from winchester but viper is viper and he's gonna now quick wall and run away no way he saves his bill no way he saves this bill if life is fair he will not save this villager what life is not fair tristan it's not like everyone else out there that's a message to you don't even try okay just watch don't even try how did he save that bill i think i have no idea i think what's even crazier is the audacity to believe that he could save the ville right yeah i i wouldn't have even tried i would have deleted one of the quick walls i would have sent my bill towards the tc and then microed my army that was discussed i would have accidentally deleted the house meanwhile i honestly i probably would have accidentally deleted the villager when i went to click the palisade that's what happened for me holy cow and now viper hasn't taken any damage just a little bit of vital time he's adding his tc now he's getting crossbow he's getting bodkin and he's gonna push forward forward to vince's base and vince is pretty vulnerable to crossbow right now i mean on the front he doesn't have too many resources but there are palisade walls and those will go down very very quickly let's see about that one 30 second timing window here goes for more skirmishers pull double range skirm kind of what he has to account for now and viper even going for all six eco upgrades before minute mark 23. yeah so this is vikings and viper's even extending that further i think he realizes having killed just two villagers how big a lead he's gonna have in this matchup and this is why when you're thinking mongols you're thinking men at arms or some crazy scout rush something more than just one range winchester did so well against leary with with a variety of different strategies but maybe needs to be more aggressive to be able to kill viper today at least in this game it hasn't worked out so far viper picks a ville playing some farms he now sees the opponent's gonna go skirm i'm sure viper is feeling great about this position right now as he will be three tcs at home pretty nice economy behind this one for sure goes for the zebra now as well siege workshop being dropped already has ballistics on the way everything fully in this control yep yep and he's even he's fixing his eco too nilly like right there after ballistics he's like i don't need this much gold anymore let's just get more food let's get more wood now these skirms can be killed by crossbows if the crossbows get decent enough number and these skirms do not have the final armor that's typically what you want to shoot for is that final armor upgrade but vince has six on food nelly so he has six on food he doesn't have wheelbarrow he doesn't have any of his farm or what upgrades in castle age this guy's economy is at the limit right now and viper's just gonna have siege with three tc's at home it's gonna be so tough for vince to do damage here ah it feels like vince needs to want to see all in it here yeah the economy will be completely out of control you already sold 100 stone uh and now soon has the resources to go for a second to see mangano short actually yep scorpions here viper maybe didn't have the gold for the manganese or maybe he felt like scorpion would be enough since these skirms don't have final armor and he can also use the crossbows and honestly i'm really liking the scorpion choice because they don't have the final armor and viper with a bit of dodging there didn't lose too much scorpions have to run away nelly i'm with you i think the only uh unit that could work to kill viper right now is probably the manganell he does have siege at home his vince drops a very awkward tc uh i i think he's gonna have to use siege to kill viper because skirms won't do it and knights or any anything else in his arsenal really will not work no he's sending his magnal over but might just run into viper's mangler here no pepper senses making a little bit further back he knows okay my economy just has to be so much better than yours yeah i mean you get a strong feel for this having played thousands and thousands of games i'm sure vanchester feels it as well right now when you're up against vikings you just know you're just you feel dead right now and you feel the need to do damage all the time and there's an overtop for viper but it might actually end up working out for him he doesn't lose a ville as i say that he does of course but he'll kill the archers and he knows that the only thing he really has to fear would be the siege uh now the scum is all dying at the side mangano nice ground attack down to 19 hp here viper might even consider committing against that manganal and without a villager in sight that should be killed yep easy clear from viper well calculated now he'll just stand on his hill he'll bring the rest of his crossbows over here it's now 73 villagers with eco upgrades in over 50 villagers and manchester just does not as the scout goes down to the manganella what in the world a winchester just doesn't have an answer to this nearly oh man so many crossbow around and what's winston's game plan here he's so behind he needs some massive misplaced by the viper but viper is just splitting up his army as well so even if he misplaces at one front the other two armies should still find damage the thing is one manganell against crossbows is not even all that strong right and viper's gonna have he loses one but he's gonna have backup here and he knows he has ballistics so probably a bit of side patrolling for viper to dodge some shots and then the siege is going to patrol in behind this also hitting the wood line at the same time nearly so he's doing some eco damage eco damage he doesn't really even have to do right now i think viper doesn't have to do anything else he could drop a forward he could drop a defensive castle he could maybe place the castle with one villager in the corner i mean it doesn't really seem to matter this has been all viper here game one yeah soon double the population here below 30 minutes and now take the crucial hill in front of inches of space mangano dan should be better for the viper as well wins that one as well or your winches are running out of options and out of open game number one yep it's the best of nine right so you winchester couldn't have come in here today thinking that he was gonna sweep the viper that would be way too confident uh and he also probably knew that it was not gonna be easy when he saw the sif matchup and he didn't do damage on early feudal so winchester maybe getting warmed up getting a feel for the series this has been over for a bit but viper's going to show us that it is indeed over and it's just so dominant from viper so clean that if you're a viper fan you've got to think this is peak viper this is the viper that i knew you know ever ever since i started watching age of empires man and this is just it's also the power of the vikings but it was so perfect really yeah it was simply clean and that was a big problem right we mentioned earlier mongols they need to make something happen they want to get something done before the 15 minute mark but viper honestly also with a quite good map right yeah double woodline the gold easily walled off and then positioned to skirmisher and archer at the perfect spot okay so i'm going to say two things first off it's very easy to to look at this and say winchester should have done something different because he lost but realistically if you don't damage vikings badly in the first 10 minutes vikings are normally going to do this and viper is normally going to do this so what i'm thinking is why not try and steal an elephant or a rhino winchester consistently in the semifinal would only try and steal some goats and leave it at that would it not make sense of mongols to try and lame viper to death in dark age he found two sheep maybe he was happy with that then he went back also had some hiccups with his own elephant there at the start i'm a big fan to try to make it 3v1 elephants yeah if you're mongols yeah i mean maybe i don't even know where they were but winchester didn't try and we didn't talk about it for that reason but not the safe matchup winchester would have wanted in the mid game not the damage he would have wanted to do against the viper and viper with a very quick and convincing victory i think that game could have easily been 22 minutes 23 minutes winchester playing it on just a bit longer like i said to get a feel so this is nice for the viper as we said multiple times like he even stays in game number one for longer than he normally needs to simply to get a feeling to get his fingers warm and getting his fingers warm and getting the win in game number one sounds pretty nice yeah also i think vikings probably should be rated a bit higher than this but that was one of viper's later picks vikings was very late on the draft from both players it could have been picked earlier by vince viper was probably happy to see it there viper gets his victory uh we'll have a lot of games and a lot of sieves actually they picked it at the exact same part of the draft that's funny mongols is on the other side same pick i don't know if that's a different wave of the draft though i'd have to do the math on that it is big two and a half and a half i know you're really passionate about pointing this out to people which is why i said something yeah it can't be the same wave right because you don't have the same waves yeah exactly so viewers if you don't know what nilly and i are talking about just look at the top of the draft and it shows the order of when the bands come in and when the picks come in and since binchester gets the first let me make sure i'm actually right on this yeah yeah he gets the final band and the first pick and then viper gets two picks the order in which they go back and forth is a little different but a little unimportant now game two has started you didn't see any of the big guns come out like aztecs or chinese lithuanians or britons in game one and we're going to have indians versus burgundians in game two viper with burgundians winchester with indians and nearly yesterday when viper played against uh jordan he made jordan look completely clueless on how to play the burgundians jordan tried to go for the eco upgrades early he tried to play defensive he tried to macro and viper took map control and stomped him um and then dave and i were talking about it and dave basically said that he feels like burgundians and sicilians are just two perfect sieves for viper like he always figures out how to play these sieves i'm really curious about this one because i could see indians being a tough sieve for the burgundians in the middle of the map jordan only picked paganians to not allow the viper to play biganians yeah that's what he said in the post interview and i don't understand why he simply didn't ban them then because he can't play them like he he that's what he said in the interview he doesn't know how to play them he simply didn't want to play against them that's the perfect sift too bad then yeah bands exist for that reason wow that's so weird okay interesting well if you think of what burgundians are known for they're known for good economy and they're typically known for uh going knights into cavalier in the mid game indians have camels and then the pergonians go for one of their other options which might be the halves uh or pikeman let's say if we're talking castle age against camels we've seen indians have a lot of success with going skirmishers crossbows and cavaliers indians have been one of the most dominant civilizations in king of the desert throughout the whole event so not a bad spot for winchester to be in civ wise yeah i i think also like indian camels against bogonians not sure if it's that easy yeah i feel like even though indians have strong camels and 1v1s the second you go into those camels there's so many good counters to that you know and camels can't kill villagers you're not really doing any strong offensive play might be the first game though where we have a scout opening really remember we didn't see a scout opening at all yesterday didn't see it game number one vikings mongols here's game number two winchester with indians viper burgundians and with burgundians you want a very closed off map hard to find with king of the desert and uh not really what viper gets here he's got a few of his woodlines with pawns in it berry four berries very forward gold yeah let's see how greedy he's going to be we have known him to be one of the greediest players and still somehow make some defense happen he can reasonably wall the bottom though i can see walls with the stone i can see waltz in front of the berries and then mainly defend the area with the gold although he still has a gold in the back so viper maybe more developing his economy to the left-hand side could be an option for him yep i kind of like that idea we'll see viper hasn't decided on where he wants to place his lumber camp yet so he's just sitting on the straggler for a bit but it looks like he's decided this is probably one of the best places for it and what type of approach should you have with indians here nearly you know burgundians can research their eco upgrades one h earlier so you know you need to apply pressure in the previous game he went for range opening to apply pressure you think that there's maybe a different strategy winchester should think of i'm really clueless i i'd rather play with bug onions than against paganians it feels like lots of people try to do something really aggressive and carcinogens try to skip fuel age and go for some pressure like huang style i certainly know like they're booming even though that's strong with indians always feels wrong and we see him with four on wood so it's not going to be the scout opening viper changing his build order by the way he's got eight underneath his tc on food it can be a little tough to be able to keep build production going and get the wood upgrade early on if you keep six on food so viper adapting he'll have less on wood right now than winchester but he will also be chopping wood a little bit faster um yeah my my outlook on it nilly i'm actually the opposite type of player i would prefer to be playing with indians because i always get punished when i try and play greedy like viper's going to try and do it for gundians but um the way jordan played burgundians was he tried to wall which is a natural move you want to wall up with burgundians because you want to protect your eco but i think that on this type of an open map you can't full wall full wall is just suicide i think it's too expensive it's too much villager time walling and then also there's very good chance they can break in anyways at the same time i think you have to respect something like small walls viper will might maybe do small walls around his wood lines and then take this into a feudalized battle so i still like man-at-arm archer i think with indians you save a lot of food behind that and unfortunately and it it may be a conversation for a different time but i just really think that the pro players have shown us that the wall nerves have actually made mana arms stronger right if you can't get your full walls down scout rushes just feel so weak and the only thing to punish the small walls then which is what people have to do is mended our marcher and so i i think regardless of this if we're going to see that a lot there goes bench with two militia right now and dark age it's like winchester could also play drought chef c because burgundians they aren't getting any aggression out viper we know that he's trying to play greedy feels very likely he's already walled and just do two militia and then you can still squeeze out a reasonable like 17 minute castle edge timing and get a crossbow aggression there and viper he he will struggle to punish that when we talk about viper's scouting that barrack started going up a second ago viper spotted it so he knows that the melissa are going to be coming over he now has time to prepare his walls he actually didn't do the best of jobs because that one villager yeah there we go that one villager needs to be walled in dress fc seems so risky but i can see your argument that typically burgundian sit back maybe you just want to race the castle age here i think he'll probably go to militia to take some map control as winchester's done so frequently in this tourney and then go up to feudal age okay let's see how the viper is trying to approach this one still no farm upgrade but obviously didn't put down any farm so it doesn't need it yet might even wait for both uh heavy plow yeah for placing down the first farms push them one zero now and yeah winchester is not going to play rush into fast casa he's playing rush and for we'll follow it up with some futile homie is there a world where viper doesn't even add a barracks and he just goes for both of his eco there's a world where he walks in the militia no way no way viper this is this is now two moments in two games where viper has shown his class with freaking quick walls man and now he doesn't need to worry about these things i mean he he does have to respect them a little bit because the palisade balls will go down imagine being winchester right now you make it to the finals you're like i can do this because i was the underdog against hera yo and and leary and now he's beginning to think maybe i can't do this oh god my first passion vince is even adding another militia he tries to fight them free he's gonna try and free up his voice i mean he can get mad at arms it's not like viper is going to fight that just yet viper did add the barracks and a crucial moment here as viper's faster to feudal he's actually going to be able to get hits in winchester scout and viper's just gonna go for a range i really like the range opening because he sees the third militia and he also has the other militia trap if he wanted to fight with melee units like scouts you would of course have to delete the walls viper clicks heavy plow then canceled and clicked bowser i think he will delay it even longer and we'll try to finish those two sheep and only then go for it but he has very little wood he only has those five villagers yeah the main wood that's it yep and then maybe some straggler trees to take but you definitely write that for viper i think getting the wood upgrade makes more sense very weak scouts for both we will have a rain oh we have a stable for winchester what i i don't like that move really i don't think he has the food income no i like it if he can produce a few more scouts actually he's got two and q and he's got three wilson q so this could actually be fine hmm interesting most of the time people advise against that because one of the defense against the drush is small walls and one of the defense against scouts are also small walls so most of the time scouts shouldn't really get too done well somewhat too much done yeah but apparently manchester feels like okay maybe enough map control will be guaranteed by going scots a viper again scouts it look he saw the stable so now viper has time to make spearman that's the risk the risk is they just need to make two spearmen and then your whole scalp play is very weak whereas if you were to go for a range opening you can compete with their ranged units and viper spearmen are useless so viper's got both castle jico upgrades in he hasn't had the best of time with wood efficiency i have to say maybe if he could get two or three more villagers on that lumber camp i'd feel better about that and he's just going to brace himself for this attack this is an attack that winchester thinks is going to be a surprise to viper he thinks that viper's only going to be on archer's skirm i don't think he's expecting there to be three spearmen soon to be four spearmen for viper ah crazy right yeah that should not really be a thing like how well it's like vince said trying to outsmart which is trying to be tricky worked out so well again larry yep but viper knows what's up and how much he needs to scout against finch and this is where it gets tricky right because the whole semi-final with viper jordan dave and i were talking about how jordan was playing the same way as the viper and now he needs to play different and now we have finchester trying to do something different and you and i are sitting here saying this is why different doesn't work this is why this build order doesn't work now let's see maybe winchester could get a bill pick here piper has the spears but they're out of position good job winchester he will kill that villager the viper was close to getting his famous quick walls down and so it pays off already i'd say nearly this little scout rush well you're not really gaining too much of like yeah if you get a second villager now we are starting to talk viper's trying to ward the one at the top but i think she will go down most likely as well or will she yeah two spearmen there but patience from viper and uh he's to build a lumber camp on this forward woodline or pull the villagers back to farms or something there you go he's getting wheelbarrow now viper a little late too gold here though nilly that he might not be able to have the gold at the proper time actually now i take that back i should be fine five equal upgrades against two here viper could even consider going for gold mining yeah it's it's cheap right it is discounted so gold mining upgrade not the most expensive fighter will add the blacksmith and he's kind of done what you said nilly he's walled to the left using the stone he's taking the bat gold so viper realized pretty quick that this is a map that he can work with as we see fletching now for winchester winchester's gonna have some archers and he's going to have quite a few scouts now this i like he has bloodlines in queue as well i like this from vince do not allow viper to just sit back in a lot of other games players would transition towards castle age but not in this one this is good three archers only though i think the viper should be able to defend this also just adds more and more walls knows that his economy will find in viper yeah he often goes really greedy but realized okay fletching is a must here and it's likely that he will take the sill i don't see vince are doing too much well the thing is bloodlines is in but there's four spearmen for viper so if vince can take out the spearmint vince could maybe win the game right here can he take out all the spearmen and the archers are going to focus down these the uh sorry the skirms are going to focus down the archers there and winchester just committed to the engagement and that's a really good engagement for him nilly there's now zero spearman for the viper and viper will have to quick wall all of his resources but why should he not be able to do exactly that gold looks a bit funky though that will be ugly to wall but viper yeah without any archers around he's not that scared of all those scouts there's a hole this could be so problematic but you're right no ranged units viper really needs to wall off the front so range units won't get in here i still think and of course burgundians have been working off the eco upgrades and all that but i still think that finchester is in a good position he's got plenty of food behind this he can still go castle you could argue he can even make it faster than the viper and this is an awkward position for viper's woodline right now won't be awkward anymore but maybe a sign of things to come for winchester if he clicks up the castle age first just felt like winchester like three more archers and this could have been indeed the win for winchester there you could have pressured all the wood lines could have been so annoying but simply didn't have the resources for that and that's how the viper with this crazy good quick waltz somehow made the defense happen yeah this game is all about timings right and i think if it maybe if vince had the archers earlier then vince wouldn't have the food to go cast like faster because he would have gone archer range over farms at that time but i think going double range is a really good idea and what's exciting about having research bloodlines is that if he wants to go cav archers bloodlines does affect your cav archers and give them more hp so finchester didn't over invest into upgrades for scouts that he's not going to use he probably won't be going for camels here i would love to see three ranges for winchester but if he's honestly if he's going to do that nearly he does not need 20 farms i think he is over farmed if he's going to be going for archer units he's going to have so much food floating yeah especially if we wanted to go for cafes we often see villagers being pulled away from farms not really the case right now winchester still some control maybe he goes for a crossbow light calf composition is that a thing well i was gonna say i prefer cav archer after crossbow but now i see him getting armor maybe it is a thing indian like have a pretty good against archers but it's not like viper has only archers viper's got a pretty ai army comp at the moment he's got spears skirms archers so many resources in the bank uh but no stable for viper so i don't know if he's going to be going for those famous castle age cavalier the only one archer range right he's not really committing in any direction second gold upgrade by him now what um i'm not sure if that's really worth it or if it's just showing off yeah he consulted okay i was wondering if it completed or if it was canceled there's a stable for viper i feel like the stable's really late right we haven't been super critical of viper here but if you're gonna do anything with that stable you need to have that stable up before castleage whether it's the cavalier research or whether it is the uh you know the production knife yeah i agree would have loved to see it 30 seconds earlier viper for now focuses on his crossbow upgrades drops it down at tc not unlikely that he goes three tc's and then maybe later switch onto like four stables much better game from winchester though winchester is the only one who's really applied pressure in this game as expected and look at this viper i need to play defense mode again he can use his crossbows to focus down everything that's here but if inches or breaks in and finchester comes in with light calf or maybe some camels could be a different story for the viper but it seems like manchester realizes he can't quite break in yet he does have camels on the way and he is making cave archers the viper does a genius move and is adding a scout and he will try to figure out how many seas adventures are going for is he trying to play fast imp what's happening here but he also heavenly needs to care about the attack through the center yeah looks like he's gonna go scorpion crossbow he also has some spears around but imagine if finches were to somehow win a fight in between these tc's and take that hill in the back viper would lose the game there it's a good tc from viper to protect those villes and he sends villas to stone so he might see coustier in the future as he's going to think for a castle but if viper can defend this there's that scout on the move nilly so he does see the tc and viper says okay i'll go three tc's now as he's gonna add a tc to the north also on stone but the scorpion goes down still there's another scorpion for viper and it just feels like winchester doesn't have quite enough to really go for a strong convincing push oh and scorpion might even survive no it goes down but cross was still around spearman enough therefore the defense and viper has to be happy with this defense here's the thing though the gunians do not get our blessed burgundians typically are about eco and then they're stable units so there still needs to be some future unit comp for the viper but i'm thinking it might be the nelly he's he's got two tcs sending villagers to stone right now now i felt pretty aggressive in that regard for sure obviously the defensive castle expected to be next to the barracks next to his main goal there potentially on the hill and viper will be safe against the ca rates as well the timing on that it's got to be so frustrating if you're revenge every time he goes to do something against viper the timing's been right for viper but i think what you need is a bit of patience right you can't expect to get those kills every time against them but you have to continue to ask questions of viper and maybe he will break like on the wood line here to the west you could see the crossbows get some value there possibly see if viper reacts to this viper does react to this and having hand-carved his villagers are speedy and he doesn't lose a single ville but i like it from finch yeah yeah so do i now next question being asked at the top let's see if viper continues with his answer which is always religious nope yeah i saw this matchup before it was slam against valeza so i think that's a pretty high level matchup that we could maybe make comparisons from and indian cav archer and hussar was was the way to go there um and the burgundian players sat back much like viper is right now but they weren't really able to take any control in the game and that's the problem with viper's approach is he doesn't have any control and it's just he's stuck in a corner right now nearly i'd like to see winchester maybe think of getting relic soon but right now i'm loving the army movement from him oh yeah indeed my bustle needs 100 more stone crossbows trying to defend the front army is moving in at the left-hand side now viper a bit late with the reaction i think he needs another tc at the bottom yeah it seems like it winchester oftentimes won't want to dive into the back of someone's base because he knows he'll lose his army but if he were to make it back that there's so many villagers for viper he chooses not to probably would have lost oca he's going to loop them around and finches are impinging right now nilly viper is nowhere close viper has 10 on food he's got the farms but he's just been relocating villagers so much that the balance isn't there how can he thought that like i was expecting this was full carcinogen aggression like upgraded ca that's normally pretty expensive tristan he also got armor he also produced scouts at some point i'm telling you man indians forget about their units it's just their cheap villagers their economy is insane and this means he'll also save food so he can get the upgrades on the cav archers he can get bracer he can get chemistry probably a world where soon after we could see heavy cav archer but also a big difference in the economic approach is that winchester did not send any villagers to stone piper's had maybe like 20 of his villagers on stone throughout castle age the viper should have a lot of defensive castles even though he'll be stuck in gas leagues for a while maybe even 40c play there could be an option and then the big questions like winchester yeah you are in but no castle mud cannons could take quite some time viper should have a lot of tools to hold and delayed so he should get in with a way better economy also there's now a chance if finches too aggressive that the crossbow skirmisher come from viper could actually kill some ca i think it'd be wise for winchester just to pull back and i think we'll see a siege workshop from vince yeah vince wants to go bomber cannons nearly and that will take time but viper's still very far away from even clicking in so i think bomber cadence could work to pressure viper's buildings oh tcc 70 ca will find some villager kills or will they one down now focusing on the scorpions oh is this siege workshop going to get denied i feel like that's a yes but it's going to be super close no it's a no as i said and uh nearly get it together man and uh he's gonna make a manganelle from that as well but yeah that's a good position to produce bomber cannons from i think viper though could just drop a castle on that siege workshop ah he goes for a market left yeah i wouldn't mind that cost a year now as well cross was trying to trade off against the ca as long as they can chemistry the first upgrade the adventures they clicked so really thinking about those bomber cannons but the siege workshop's good if you have army control i think he was is a little early with this and i do not see what manganese going to be able to do now and viper will just force him to make another siege workshop elsewhere but still viper has no control and viper's going to lose his army an army that's not scalable and winchester's just going to add another siege workshop finchester has a very strong army right now and he's going to be pushing viper soon let's see oh god our defense here i don't what do you think about that i don't like that he already has double castle it feels so much more natural to go for a third castle yeah maybe he felt okay left hand side it's just cheaper maybe you didn't want the left-hand side long-term castle and then double gator obviously is cheaper are guard towers affected by are effective against hussars though i feel like compared to a castle it's pretty ineffective oh well maybe but how many hustles are we expecting from the left-hand side i think viper maybe wall a bit more there yeah i think you can make an argument that you could just stonewall it instead of even making the guard towers but this is what happens even the viper he's put himself on the back foot he's under pressure and so you know you you're doing a million things at once you make a couple defensive decisions and then the casters sit there talking about it for 40 seconds and you've already forgotten about it so here come the light cav from winchester also interesting to me that he's going for camel right now i think finchester is expecting viper to commit to coustier this game but viper still not even in the imperial age now we'll take some time because he obviously will deal with that rate quite easily once they get there and they're taking a reasonable fight there with these gums against the ca yep remember viper in castle age also the burgundians do not get the final armor upgrade for their ranged units in imp which means their skirms are still a little lackluster we do have bomber cannons for winchester though and he has a lot of them um or he's got two but he will have more and that is a lot right now for viper because viper doesn't have an army he he has excuse me he has an army but it's a weaker army huh scums need to go back to a relatively low as well we now see winchester even selling food to 44th walmart cannon so viper getting his first armor upgrade his first one i actually had to do a double take because scale boarding kind of looks like plate barting and i was like wait what viper's an imp but no he's getting his futile aged cav upgrade viper is going to try and dive here in the castle to take out those bomber cannons but if he doesn't nilly or even if he loses his entire force to do so i think this could be really really tough for him in the future here is he trying to take this big engagement i would be really surprised the viper i think he's only trying to buy himself some time but he's not fighting the kills against the vomit now he does have 128 villagers viper's at 160 pop in castle age also kustia have a charge attack so their very first attack is eight plus 25 so in theory you want to go in attack and then run away wait and then fight again piper much like the bot that he is is just going to make skirms just going to make pikes just a big mix of units here but that is a big mix of imperial age units against him and i think the perfect number of bummer cans i wouldn't even make more than four truthfully i like that a lot as well because he is now threatening the fight again piper i think he's just trying to buy himself time does have a lot of stone but imp is still three minutes away he has clicked it now i still wonder if this all scales well for viper as he goes in here nilly he's going to lose his kustier there's no doubt about that in my eyes just how many bomber cannons will he kill and the answer is three oh and that's a lot of time yeah the winchester will get a forward castle up in exchange but now heavily attacking into pikeman not a lot of production by him now even population still crazy still wondering what will viper do is there a world where we see the revolution i think the revolution would probably lose him the game in this situation but it's worth reminding people that flemish revolution is a technology the change that turns all of your um your eco into flemish militia so if i were to click it he'd have about 160 military problem is he'd have no siege to push castles he then would have no villagers to bring in further resources so i do not think this would be the time for that upgrade also an indicator is that he stopped at 138 villages normally if he wanted to go for it we would see him at 160 something in that ballpark but he thinks nah not really not the greatest unit against cavalry archers i don't have enough siege like t90 said over on the other stream and therefore he mainly goes for some more trash units trying to make a hole happen i love this from vince he's not being tunnel vision and you can completely understand how he would be tunnel visioned in this scenario he's spreading out viper was getting away with murder here on the right side or the north side with the gold those villagers are going to die and also winchester started to to take a peek over to the left side too now viper's got crazy resources but he's not really going for any strong gold units here and it seems like that castle is finally as he makes its imp going to fall over here bracer ah more as well did he even go double little blacksmith something i really like yep that makes sense because right now time is the most important thing for viper and he doesn't have a lot of it he's getting as many upgrades as quickly as possible but nearly light cav counter skirm have archer counters help so you could look at it the reverse way as well but typically gold units are more mobile they're going to have more hp they're going to pack more of a punch and any time they take an engagement against their counterpart and viper just it's either his villagers die or his buildings die or everything dies here viper needs a fight we'll be more gold efficient for sure now moves in upgrades a line quite nicely bomber cannon still around viper needs to repair a lot of the camel's already died it's true not the best unit control there from finchester also uh doesn't have too many cav archers maybe there's a world where viper could do this albs are the most important unit here skirms help but halves can also take out the cav archers if they get in close leiper loses this castle here nilly winchester is going to come forward and drop another castle the bomber cannons are rolling away though viper could kill them seems like finch will get away with some of them and that castle is a possibility for him still if he wants to place it are you sure about that one of our six woman cannons now we are down to three trap is under some danger as well and mass trash seems to be a good army composition somehow no way winchester lost all of them except for that one right there and now his cav archers aren't being microed back finchester and now he loses the next one he loses the trebuchet and now that castle for winchester is looking disastrous what just happened i think winchester's trying to make a tech switch into champion thinking that that would be good against trash but as he was doing that nearly he lost everything holy cow oh man and remember last armor upgrade not there for indian champions so could be a big problem they are not as efficient hand cannoneers being added already by the viper he's doing all the right steps but still winchester lots of map control yeah lots of map control but look at the cheeky town center from viper he's just trying to control that gold in what ways he can ridiculous man winchester he needs this game if he has any chance of winning the finals he needs this game think back to the games that viper's been able to claw away from jordan and other players throughout king of the desert viper has been insane probably the best player in king of the desert going into the finals however he has fallen behind and in important sets he always gets a win or two in those games where he dips behind winchester you need this one buddy you need this one a viper has i i mean nearly when i saw him repairing that castle i just figured it'd be a waste of stone and that he would he would end up dying anyways but viper has done almost the impossible to stay alive here yeah sometimes people even consider hyping players to have five resources it's not only wood food gold and stone but also time yeah and it felt like viper's time management was so good over and over in this game with the upgrade timing perfectly there with how he held that castle for so long and somehow he is alive and at pop 180 where i think everyone else in the world would be already in game three this is where we can see the flemish revolution at this point if you can get a few more town centers out of your viper it might make some sense because you will have some siege winchester needs to go in to snipe these bomber kings he's lost so much siege this game nearly it's insane but we'll be tougher [Music] yeah almost impossible to react with such a slow bomber cannon and good job from winchester now finches buying himself time piper still has so many villes that are exposed and vince is gonna oh god his light calf next to the stone he patrolled on stand ground nearly or no attack stance or something he thinks there's like have her killing viper's villagers right now and viper's villagers are going to run away have you ever seen anything so ridiculous oh god the most ridiculous thing since game number one where a dead villager was somehow saved yeah yeah yeah oh my god now viper has time to send the halves oh no okay now vince realizes and he's like did i kill those bills okay i guess i did i guess i guess i killed those villagers good job me i'm so good at this game [Laughter] oh god i already said it yesterday vince sister one of his biggest weaknesses is the overboom and look at that 151 villagers yeah two more in the queue he doesn't know and he can't the difference is he can't turn his villagers into military however i think with these three castles and maybe a castle more towards the south of his eco he's pretty well protected right now viper doesn't have a real rating unit so i think if i'm vince i use all that food income and send it into viper's eco even if you're not getting too many kills just go for it and then you just prep walmart cannons and try and use your cav archers bombard cannons to take the main fight which viper is gearing up for here on this hill look at viper's q though and canon ears bombard cannons he's playing this really methodical just through the center he he knows okay i won't have a great army to fight yeah but his cues will just be full after that and i don't think he's cute to break as well i actually don't think his q is that good i think his resources look good but he only has bomber cannons huge right now granted he is pop capped i think if viper had control of one of the corners uh he would place two more tcs there and with six or seven town centers to add more villagers after the revolution he would maybe consider it but you don't want to go for the revolution if you don't think you can get your villagers back that's always the key a ghanaian wine yards has to be the tech you know generating gold from farms that would be really strong i'm surprised viper didn't research it already wait he doesn't have a castle oh okay so yeah forget about both those things then i guess yeah he did lose two castles and he hasn't placed another one since a viper with a palisade gate just to create some space and he does a good job here he doesn't lose his bomber cannons i think that's the most important unit for him right now also cleans up some champions with the hand cannon it's not bad oh let's see see is still diving goes for the hand cannon is now obviously cannot accept any hits from the woman cannons still feel like viper's army comp is worse and i think his late game position is worse as well with lack of space um and lack of defensive castles but it's just can viper push it back even further winchester has done a great job to recover after that bad fight and man the hand cannons look so bad right now oh yeah well horrible again ca even with a plus four attack i think something they have yeah indeed they do have that but now we can see the queue is completely put there but the viper drops to pop 150. yeah finchester's doing it he's here with champions he's here with the ca he'll have the hustars coming in he has 31 hustlers queued viper's going to lose the game right here nelly i mean you would think so anyways what does viper have after this if he loses this hill he loses his villagers he doesn't have a castle to be able to research the revolution or vineyards and viper calls it winchester it looks a little dicey but he does finally punish the viper for that greed with the burgundians and he ties up the final what a crazy good game by both of them viper would then hold that i've never seen before and winchester got further and further ahead the ca did so much damage and then the bombard cannon mass push yeah and i think that's just the problem with burgundians is that wait hold on a second i'm being told that a player dropped in the game is being restored for game two okay did that make sense as well i was a bit surprised that we had the duty here because viper still had a reasonable queue yeah 150 at bombard cannons there well i still think viper's dead but we want viper to think that he's dead before the game ends 60 farmers as well for winchester he's going champions he has more ca more hustlers in the queue he killed villagers it's the massive hill i think vince's is looking really really good here yeah he's got three relics there's even a fourth out there that he could take actually hidden behind an outpost um he's got the extra resources viper can never push castles i think if viper had a castle and had a couple more tc's maybe the revolution would be his only chance but yeah we'll wait wait for the restore to see this game out in a proper way but yeah the problem with the burgundians in my eyes is just if they're not going cavalier in the mid game feels like it's so difficult for them to do anything does the game id work for you oh no caszini said viper resigned one minute after the restore the game is over [Laughter] so if i ever got back into the game they restored it and then he just immediately resigned as maybe we expected nealy and it's it is officially 1 1 now nice okay well kind of what we expected there in the end i was a bit surprised by the gd timing of the viper if that actually was the gt timing but now makes lots of sense and winchester putting himself on the scoreboard you have to love it yeah seriously and i think that was a good matchup for him but also that's the type of game where viper has gotten wins before uh viper took that really good fight against the cav archers uh in early imperial age and then from there everyone's like oh my god he's doing it again the snake is back but maybe just didn't have the units to go for there nilly maybe it's a different game if burgundians get the final armor upgrade on their skirms or if viper was able to expand to the north or the south in that game but i'm excited i just didn't want to see complete destruction from whoever wins the final i want a competitive series and we've had that now yeah yeah i'm pretty happy with that game as well and viper didn't have a great map also winchester went for quite some aggression just think about like he could have finished this game maybe at minute 18 yeah it wasn't for the viper doing so well with sniping those archers such a nice aggression if you think about viper's mo it's normally be uh creatively defensive and then go towards a better unit with better eco he was creatively defensive and he didn't have a better unit with better eco that's the way i see it well nearly i see this if matchup for the next game and this is going to be a fun talking point we have winchester with the berbers and we have the viper with the huns and it's not the first time we've seen this matchup but berbers went up against mongols or huns are favored because they have camels to counter anything like knights and they have camel archers to counter cav archers this is going to be a crazy one yeah yeah absolutely and the question is though can we get to those camel numbers can we get to kamatas it feels like camel archers so incredibly good winchester then in a beautiful spot castle age though i've sometimes seen berbers even with the mass camels struggling if hans gets to like 25 30 ca yeah and we've also seen instances where and one of my favorite ones was actually an nac qualifier it was doubt against stark i believe oh what a game yeah you know exactly what i'm talking about yeah we've seen instances where going halberdy or siegram can push back camel archers and cavalier but i think if viper were to choose and it's not really how this works he of course drafted his sieves but if viper were to choose he would definitely want to be on the side of the berbers here yeah i think so as well really open map as well tough for hans to wall of the full map and get like the fight that they kind of want with the ca that you shoot go back shoot go back and dictate the fights with berbers you don't mind a super wild game where raids are happening everywhere and you have to split your army that's where knights or camels shine against the shape okay now here's a question because we have two really good captives will we see the crossbow upgrade yes [Laughter] i think we'll actually see the crossbow upgrade from both honestly but then probably some some skirms into nights billy what do you think would happen if crossbow the crossbow upgrade were to be increased just slightly like instead of 125 75 maybe like 150 100. uh what is it is it not more expensive than that i thought it was 120 25 food and 75 gold for crossbow i thought that was the original original price it's more expensive no is it one is it 150 why did it get more expensive well scums elite skirmish elite got more expensive at one point but i don't think crossbow ever did really yeah i wouldn't mind that i wouldn't mind that yeah i think i think it's an easy switch to make people will still probably go scross but craw crossbows anyways so anyways we're in this game game three i for one am hoping that we do not see a lot of crossbow and uh winchester berbers viper huns huns very flexible they do not have to build those houses and you normally think about castleage with them because of their cheap cav archers and that's where the flexibility really feels strong with the berbers you could say similar things because their best age is probably castle h nilly because they have the cheaper stable units all in nights all in camels that's typically where you see berbers shine yeah sometimes they have to mix in some scorpions to deal with the mass ca but they wouldn't really mind that and especially looking at vintage's map this one looks really solid i can see lots of walls being placed down nice defensive woodline gold there is everything safe i really like vintage santas i agree with you viper's map you can make it work but certainly not one of his famed map hacks because the gold berries are a bit more further forward for him and this is definitely shaping up to be a crazy final here and i i feel like this weekend deserved it i really enjoyed the semis yesterday but i didn't leave fully satisfied because they were four ones and then the third place match was a 3-0 this is where all the best games have been saved for them this is where the age of empires gods are going to bless us today as it should be yeah yeah nice i also felt viper against jordan except the britain's skimmer game didn't really have the exciting ones yeah it was always meta it was so clean so standard incredible incredibly high level but i didn't see the highlight scenes yeah well what's weird to me is if you think back to previous king of the deserts and this is why i've circled back to this so many times previous king of the deserts had like three different groups of knights and like ram pushes in castle age but like you think of king of the desert this year hasn't really been a lot of that because of the whole the crossbow meta so i'm hoping that we see knights in this one knights and cav archers would make me so happy and uh winchester is going to open up with a barracks he loves his little two militia drushnilly so we might see the same thing here to get a little bit of map control against the viper oh let's see how much the viper will allow him four on wood by the snake barry is pretty late so feels like a counter drush by the viper okay so more drushing viper doesn't have to build his houses but you start with -100 wood with hunts so the barracks will be a little delayed but after this you're feeling pretty strong to place your mill and place your farms i'm wondering if viper will go for more than just two militia uh vince has been doing two a lot it's enough to do damage and stop the opponent from walling up but he's also not spending as much food which allows him to go feudal age [Music] five on one for viper maybe to compensate a little bit we're starting with minus 100 wood i like that it's getting the berries up now as well or the mill up as well and yeah it seems more like two militia versus two militia here yeah such a good level though viper attracting the militia then you have winchester looking for the militia this is funny actually viper sent his militia behind his barracks the winchester's looking for them right now or maybe he's looking to group up honestly with his militia coming forward he was faster to the barracks after all militia didn't know where to go they were like in the tc and okay now he knows okay it's going to be at the front at the berry so does he know militia they're still confused viper good little quick wall here just to buy a little bit of time they'll also have loom i think viper will actually fight back with the villes here and yeah winchester surely will realize that if he takes a fight there viper's got the bills close to just pull and fight um in the end we should see feudal age uptime coming in pretty clean i'm just curious on if someone will be faster with it feels like vince is gonna be one ville faster with this not that that's really game breaking but yeah there he goes why does the viper already have three farms i think he's made a mistake going with so much on wood here he's got villagers on straggler trees as well as having villagers on lumber camp so that's why viper hasn't clicked up yet so maybe he just feels like this approach is better for his economy but definitely will be later to futile age here also a better fight for vince i think because vince has the higher hp scout so not a bad spot for vince to be in oh militia is lower there and okay okay i quickly need to bend some people my chat sorry go for it have fun i feel like okay i i it's like i cast with dave yesterday and dave's like i'm banning people and then and then now you're talking about banning people like lots of bands man for my co-casters yeah okay check this out i appreciate the discussion but there was some some rough yeah some some words were dropped okay oh you don't agree that t90 doesn't think crossbow should be more expensive i hate you is that what happened no it was more like discussion like about casting who with whom what caster they like life is too short i think it's fine to say i like this caster but being very disrespectful to any caster someone i don't appreciate and all right nilly well sorry you had to deal with that vinces are going two to gold while also making a stable winchester explain this to me oh god he tries to trap viper and oh oh he almost flexed on the viper the gold thing was weird for vince but he did do this in the previous game with the stable opening and viper's looking to scout it right now and uh viper has not seen that yet so he might be assuming a range viper on gold viper actually hasn't decided on what he wants to build yet now he sees the stable has not placed the feudal age military building yet mainly farms feels so weird is he booming without walls okay stable now i kind of appreciate the patience there from viper because the first thing i do when i'm in feudal is i i've already pre-decided what building i'm going to place and then i just place i decide before i go start the game okay that's that's good as well nearly advanced build orders um but you know it's kind of a repeat of the previous game i honestly feel as though winchester going scout into archers here could be one of the most exciting things of this uh this tourney for me because this is not a build that we saw much from him before it would normally be archer's into then scouts but he's reversed it he's now going to gold nilly he's got plenty on wood for the range i think we will see the range soon okay seems like range from both players and archer scout as you said sounds really exciting some spearmint being mixed in as well shouldn't really get too many hits off though yeah let me see the scouts there for vince vince will see the villagers on gold now finch is gonna be like wait a second he's got a stable two and he also has villagers on gold the difference is viper might be a little heavier with the food eco right now but it's pretty darn close also is there a hole in viper's woodline there i think no between the palisade and the lumber cam from the thousand no not really okay it kind of looked like the way the palisades were positioned towards the south of that there might be uh hunts do have faster producing stables here so it does help a little bit and viper of course has the spearmin the spearmen seem to be protecting where he needs them to be and now he's going to send four scouts forward and he's getting bloodlines and winchester is without an archer right now i think the issue in the previous game was he was a little late to the archers to counter viper spearman this game he's going to send scouts back to defense so he at least since his viper is going to be here oh let's see if the villager actually gets a pretty good pathing there should make it to the tc or even back to the gold interesting but viper now with bloodland 4v3 would love to take that fight and finchester's gonna feel so uncomfortable now because he was the one who was faster to futile he was the one who wanted to be more offensive and now viper's on him and viper's got the stronger scouts viper taking good fights here there will be more numbers from finchester so this is the moment for viper he clears up the scout numbers he only loses one and he could even get good hits on the second winchester struggling right now oh man that's really rough for him no upgrades there militia even helping out a bit and low hp scouts viper has to be super happy with his engagement engagements yeah viper's in full control right now the other thing is he didn't need to invest into an archer range so he could just farm if you look at his farm count his farm count's insane so he stayed on stable units against the berbers which in castle anyways is a worry but good control for viper and he doesn't have that much military now which is interesting he could have made more scouts chose not to and now winchester should win this fight i believe let's see well even without bloodlines but now more hp and viper i'm surprised how greedy he played without the archer range right he dropped it way earlier and drops a wild blacksmith and an archer range now i love how open this is though this is the type of game that you want and winchester thinks this is my time and truthfully it is the proper time to go forward especially with how greedy viper has been but i think winchester does not know that this army is coming in so you might need to get some walls down what only four scouts to spearman he has two spearmen himself i think viper is in more trouble than winchesters good point viper does lure the spearman out of position though and winchester may be getting baited a little bit as viper now has to protect us gold but viper doesn't know the archer ranges out remember the viper will have to react winchester will have to react and berber villagers are faster for vince so vince can save his bills leiper now needs to run but the woodline needs to be abandoned as well oh this is so good for winchester he will find some villager picks i think if it wasn't for the viper just shuffling those ridges beautifully did lose one so not quite as beautiful as you would expect but uh now he has to make a lumber kit look at this he's making all of his ecos on the front this is backwards he's abandoned the safe wood lines on the back he's now on the front and i guess viper is just going to make more scouts here but he really needs the numbers to be here and the scouts that were at winchester's base that are now coming back are super low hp so i don't know if he can kill winchester's army easily for archers around this would love to see winchester actually like full fuel age commitment could have been a thing but he obviously would love to play berbers in castle age as well i love the patience from vince viper's gonna pull villes to try and distract don't attack the villagers kill the army from viper if you kill the army from viper then you can kill the villagers it's so close and viper does have bald lines and armor none of those upgrades are in for winchester scouts and viper it seems like he's just barely getting by with the greed here nilly oh but really barely i think maybe one or two villagers might still be in trouble 20 seconds till we reach castle age that's that's disgusting how did he only lose one villager to this one night and he could be okay here i'll try small behind this mainly focusing on the archers and yeah and they didn't even lose that many hp apparently upgrades are a good thinker on scouts yeah apparently but nilly you're right i think the opportunity for vince was while he was sending his archer scouts forward add a second stable at a second range or just all in your production if he went all in futile there viper had no walls and viper would have died to it i think but there's a lot of what-ifs when you play the viper now there's the second tc for him he's sorted out his eco and he's starting to make have archers and some knights that will buy him quite some nice time the question is winchester how will he be able to defend his gold spearmen looking good against the knights but the ca will be the scary thing yep ca will be definitely be the scary thing and you get excited about when you see berbers vs hunts because you think camel archers and cheap knights and camels however camel archers need to be created out of a castle so it's not that simple good walls though from winchester my issue is how are you going to protect your gold from cav archers if you uh don't have a tower i think maybe since the cavalry numbers aren't high enough he'll be fine for now and he'll hope to push back once he gets some units on the field now he will just invest some spearman trying to buy himself some time and i think once he gets like two till four camels out he should be defending that goat quite nicely maybe being forced into a siege workshop is this too greedy from viper i mean he's gone three tc's here this is pretty insane control by the viper everywhere now and he's got houses being attacked here winchester he has to deal with that like we're looking to break in from all angles kd 20 to 15 which is remotely close but viper has three town centers and he won't be spending food on uh knights anymore should be pretty easy for him to have quite a few bills on wood but if he bills on gold spam cav archers and also spam villagers out of all those town centers oh gets in there at the bottom by double house to save the day one scout on the wrong side of the front line both players have done such a good job in this game of keeping bills alive i feel like vince could have lost three or four viper could have lost even more than that he could have lost 15 honestly against that army yeah right crazy that was that without the berber bonus at least winchester had the additional speed here come the camels if camels attack have archers they melt them they absolutely melt them the issue is camels have less pierce armor than a knight does so viper will have quite a few ca pretty soon and should be able to hit the sea uh the camels excuse me i want to see if viper saves the ca see crazy yet ten drops a bit more tries to get ballistic now but has hospital entry which is really nice against the camels what number of cav archers would you say is the key to dominate the mid game one mil oh okay um 25 25 yeah okay i typically think 25 is the way um i guess what's unique about this situation is that normally when we're talking cav archers it's a one tc play a viper has three town center economy normally the order is mass the cav archers then at the economy viper has used the faster cast lag to get a pretty significant ville lead as he might even be thinking a fourth tc on that gold over there are you kidding me viper he's sending villes over there and poor winchester just didn't see it oh man and 40c hunt well the map is so open so it only makes sense don't care about iotc time it's mainly to protect the villagers as well and the ca taking a reasonable engagement against the camels yeah chain barting is in so viper has to be a little careful but yes camels are cheap yes camels do a lot of damage if they attack but they still are camels they're still low pierce armor but it's really tricky if huns get here but there you go winchester finchester hits the wood line and camel's not too shabby at killing gills either nilly four villagers killed there manchester will like to see that what he won't like to see is just how many town centers are out for the viper right now we do have a second tc for vince it is on stone so he might be thinking cam a larger but will the eco be good enough to mask the camel archers you need the castle and then you need the time yeah well it tries to go for 30 c but that's a traffic jam there oh yeah that hurts on the bright side he's sending moreville so that the villes won't be idle too long but hyper defending well with the cav archers and he is leading by a large margin here killing more villagers here winchester not reacting fast enough 73 villagers versus 57 viper as double the military lead as well full control here what a what a controlled game by hunt honestly now at some more archery ranges just feels so smooth and all the steps this game very much reminds me of how viper played game number one when he plays for a little bit more control than he did in the burgundian game he's he's able to find the tc spots get the eco on the back of good military numbers and viper even going for another town center okay this is a bit extreme five tcs for viper i thought he was saving that stone for a castle but apparently not what the thing is what i mentioned earlier is like especially on the open arabia like berbers would love to play like small numbers of knights and camels and raid everywhere well if we have tc's everywhere that won't really be a threat and you can simply go for the mass attack with the uca through the center yeah and i mean he also needed a new woodline because he just chopped through that pond i think it's just so easy to play hunts you just spam fills you spam ca and you patrol you don't have to be too cute you don't have to focus on the walls here you see it viper let's see if he reacts he has plenty of time to react and yeah camels need to get out of here this viper is forward at winchester's goal and viper could honestly think of sticking around here he does have some weak cav archers but there's not many camels and one tower won't be enough to discourage viper from diving that the manual is not that scary against a either oh we'll see a 30c now let me find some villager code on the gold viper is at a spot where he will almost one shot these camels if there's any weak camels in there they are going to be gone and this is just the worst position to be in if you're winchester it really comes down to what viper was able to do in late feudal early castle winchester unable to do damage against viper and viper's made him pay here with the faster town centers and the faster cav archer numbers winchester's been playing ketchup ever since but is he really catching up he is not too far behind when it comes to villagers and we mentioned multiple times how nice it is if he gets to come not just but the viper is going for a really aggressive move here i like this and if he places that castle he denies stone from vince vince won't be able to use that long term and that could also mean that viper just continues to drop castles because he can mind that there's just not enough army for finch it's even lower than last i checked it's a 10 now he can't stop this castle nine camels not really strong army 39 ca more in the queue viper continues to play castle age but even if we consider that a trap or could be deciding who's coming out to have it with more castles i would give the edge over the hand player also the other golds are towards the south so viper notices that i think viper could go pretty aggressive here in the castle age we can see something like that look what he's doing he knows he knows yeah he's gonna wall it off that's cheeky well i i don't mind it i also would not mind to see a castle there i think that if finch could drop an ideal castle he would drop the castle on that hill but vince obviously doesn't have the ability to protect himself right now so won't be sending villagers to that hill anytime soon this is this is why everyone loves the huns the the flexibility the openness the aggression piper did so much in this game but in the castle age he has looked unstoppable 50 cap archers and this game continues and continues and uh encapsulates is spoiling that it might not continue any longer but a game sped up there nilly and viper might see the castle oh no he's moving in there for sure camel numbers not that high and pop 175 against pop 110 it's not a capture 8 spoiler the population is spoiling quite a bit as well yeah it's true that is true that is gonna be a doubt castle we didn't think we'd have doubt in the finals but we do have doubt in the finals winchester ends up getting uh or sorry viper ends up getting the victory and it was just such a greedy yet masterful display from the viper [Music] not really sure winchester i think i would have liked the feudal late shot in it's not really where berbers shine yeah but the viper it's so greedy no archery range if you have like four archers two spearmen then sister wins this game no computer yeah i think so so i'm actually uh you might not want to do this but i'm actually going to go back with capture h pro real quick to that point and i just want to see what the resources look like for vinch what do i need to press for that uh press t to show the the pop-up yeah if you have capture h pro and then you can select basically i do yeah and then you can select the time uh it was around 1750 is what i'm looking at right now okay 17 yeah so um this is when you know viper's army goes in it doesn't end up killing any bills and then we have the little base trade right at this point we don't have any additional skeleton queue or any additional archers in queue for vince honestly with two more scouts two more archers i think viper's dead here would you agree yeah feels like it's all like also some more spearman at the front right if he was walled at home and all the spearmen could be at the front the scouts could have never engaged yeah i agree like i'm watching vince run around viper's base he's got two to 300 food he's got 200 gold honestly if he yeah if he had army and q right there viper's greed would be punished and viper would at the very least have half of his economy underneath the town center i can't even say in the town center because he'd have so many pills he wouldn't be able to fit them all in the tc also is looping around the best move because if you take the hand player away from gold yeah also win the game yeah killing both villagers i think killing two gold villagers is more valuable than killing forward villagers well i mean you did force viper to run away from all of his woodlines too so there's value in that i just think the issue was the follow-up because he looped right back around to the front the problem is he just didn't have a little more army and and nilly you know what if i think if the roles were reversed granted viper wouldn't play the same way but if the sieve rolls were reversed i think finch goes futile all in but in the back of his mind he's thinking berbers are castle age civ berbers have cheap knights and cheap camels and that's when i win the game unfortunately for him that was uh incorrect in this game still so sick though like typical viper to just get by there and just just cruise control and castle age really really well played indeed with the defense and we jumped to the end to look at the better statistics then yeah i i skipped through the statistics but you can lay it on me okay and then you know on what to channel to find all the statistics oh look at that statistic oh the statistic's so good i see what you're trying to do here nilly look at that juicy number hmm oh another one apm graph [Music] hey also uh no crossbow upgrade researched in that game i don't need the statistics to say that okay so we had one game without crossbow i i'm showing it on stream as well that no crossbow upgrade wasn't switched well i do see the steps for game four that i can show people it's incas for winchester and it's one companions for viper okay winchester loves his incas nilly and cause could do fairly well against the lithuanians i think lithuanians are a top-tier civ but if it gets to halberdy or ram maybe even some eagles mixed in i think lithuanians could struggle against that we kind of had the same discussion uh but would have been the first semi right wait hold on what we talked about this at some point together i believe anyways and first time i feel it's very reasonable yeah because we didn't cast anything else together so i recall vince head uh mayans oh yeah it was mayans lithuanians remember leary went 1tc and then winchester went for the plumed archer choice that was the game where i mentioned it yeah yeah yeah but obviously we didn't see that and incas have even more options than maya and so we'll have to see but vince has some really good sieve saved up here not that viper doesn't but winchester hasn't played with britain's yet he hasn't played with aztecs yet and you've got i mean berbers he lost with but burbus was a civilization that was kind of lower in his ranking not too shabby here for winchester if he can get a win here tie it up it'll be sick for the finals nearly we have game number four now and game number four is this a must win in a best of nine for winchester well technically no but three one down doesn't feel too pretty for sure i think especially since both players still have lots of their top four picks left you still have some breathing room okay speaking of not too pretty for sure we have this crater that viper's in like i understand what they're trying to do with the hills but what is this ring at viper's base this is ridiculous this is this is so weird i've never seen something like that and map where it's not intended yeah i i think what is intended is a bunch of tiny hills and you can kind of see that portrayed at winchester's base the problem is for viper all the tiny hills grouped together and they became one big hill the viper's going to have an uphill battle you could also say that there's some positives if he controls the hills but this is never something you want to see yeah well especially the goal at the front just feels so rough there right you can never really get control over that one maybe you need to think about towering i think viper could even go for a really small base and just go defensive wood lines defensive gold in the back and berries and go for the main golden castle age that's a good point he did do that with burgundians remember he took the back gold i would like that um the difference here is viper will want to take more control and so let's talk about that plus 150 food for him at the start of the game with this sieve one of the best scents in the game for sure and uh with that they can go for a very fast feudal go scouts go man at arms go archers if it goes into ranged units lithuanians have speedy skirms so all archer sivs should fear those lithuanian skirmishers that said incas they have some good options out there and one of which is the eagle so eagles are great against archers and skirms then you've got viper on nights and it's just this fun little back and forth that i hope we have all the way to the imperial age here sounds like a lovely story to 90 and i would be wanting to join the right here three on wood for the viper the big question is like how early will he go up we've seen something crazy like pop 17 technically you could play top 16 the viper a guy that isn't known to go too too crazy he's more of a pop 18 guy i would think i hate to say it because i have uh kind of complained about it massively but i don't think we're gonna see scouts from viper i think it makes sense against incas to expect militia and or archers and going fast feudal into a range just makes so much sense here if you're able to beat them to feudal and then beat them to archers incas are going to struggle yes they do have eagles that they can make in uh in feudal but eagles produce i think it takes 60 seconds to produce a futile age eagle which takes so long mm-hmm um massive puff there yeah i think it's only 35 seconds then i think yeah it's either 30 or 35 it takes to create them in castle age which is which is good i think if they produced that quickly into late that's all you'd probably see from incas aztecs and mayans potentially yeah yeah maybe and also like empire wars would get way worse than would see them yeah that's true or they're the wife are now sending two more on wood and it feels like pop 19 is his choice now we did talk about how bad viper's basics and i think that's easy to look at and say oof ah that's disgusting however vince needs gold with incas i mean he can go halves and skirms whatever but look at winchester's golds his golds are worse and i mean his wood lines i guess would be better but still his wood lines are next to elevation and his berries are next to some level of elevation so it might not be a ring but i think viper space might even be a little better here feels so weird to say it but yeah vince's space is really open he is relying on that gold and honestly like the main gold position is the same simply with the difference that the viper has a way better secondary gold well viper he was he was oh wait hold on a second what's going on here oh he wanted to trap the army i was wondering why he delayed because he was initially going to go for a small wall but i think viper's playing with fire here if an eagle arrives he could lose a ville oh this is the elevation that winchester needs but what what he's going over here instead what's happening i'm apparently willing to fight this one off scouts not even insiders slowly but surely coming over and what what is he doing what he didn't know the tc was there oh my god dude nilly if viper's willing to fight it with villagers you make viper fight it when he has two villagers you don't make viper fight it when vipers got seven or eight over here i i have to question that decision from vince and then of course the execution to forget about the tc hurts to see if you're revenge fan i kind of knew that the cc had to be in that direction one villager now fighting it off takes the kill and scout goes over there and we will see the stable yes yes the first scout opening of the weekend i think i didn't see leary versus jordan but i would probably guess we didn't see it there either well what did viper just do in hunts that wasn't a scout opening though because didn't he go rush didn't he open with something else i actually forget already this is bad did he go scouts really didn't he go to militia into the scouts just like vince okay i think he said your scout is important for you okay very clearly clearly this matters so much to me anyways winchester on that very vulnerable gold he's gonna need some walls there as the scouts come forward but he's in an interesting spot here because he could just make some spearmint i think what's awkward for winchester is he's got a lot of walling to do against scouts and he's got so much food incas can't go for their own scouts and spend that food so it feels like his eco is a little out of whack here why is he floating that much food quite surprising archery is not coming gold won't be that pretty i think you might even go heavily on eco upgrades here okay viper of course will have the eco upgrades dream scenario for lithuanians to be able to get off a scout rush against this civilization and now have the mobility is just perfect but good defense from vince he hasn't lost any villagers i think it feels awkward for him right now with only seven on wood but he could always fix that and spearman archer could always terrify viper unless viper wants to go for skirms ah scout's still annoying i think i would love to see winchester getting better walls up but obviously that's easier said than done because it doesn't really have the control right now and two scouts squeezing through again so tough to react constantly but he is doing that and he's done a fairly good job still has the spearmen here viper will get some hits and run away viper's really asking questions of him viper can now start to think about attacking spearman if you've got three scouts you probably don't want to attack the spearman you've got five scouts you can easily take out one spearmint venture finchester needs to group his spearmen together now how about what area do you leave exposed then that's the question if you put two next to the berries and we have seven villagers is that an option to go for blacksmith and armor just have the villagers fighting back better well you remember they don't get blacksmith upgrades in feudal anymore oh yeah yeah do you remember that time where the devs removed that and didn't replace it with anything uh anyways uh scouts from viper it was freaking i swear to god they became unplayably bad no it didn't become unplayably bad fair also militia just stand in there maybe you get the armor upgrade for that militia so he can kill something over at viper space i think that's a really good tower uh on the gold i think that this map is bad enough for winchester has to do that it also gives him one less area to have to protect with spearman because he can always hop inside the tower also how is winchester at 500 food right now that's honestly sick macro for everything he's had to do as he sent two villagers to stone behind this maybe he'll think about more defensive towers and the viper not believing his eyes and he's trying to find finches army he knows okay no archers around they have to be somewhere yeah i'm not finding them i feel like maybe the malicious scouting in his base would give viper some sense of paranoia the militia was sitting there and now he's i guess it makes sense to protect your gold anyways but you're right vince is just gonna have time to drop a tower here and winchester somehow survives unscathed he didn't go for any upgrades here nilly and this is so well played from winchester oh my goodness i thought he was going to get completely overwhelmed might actually have a good opportunity to take this towards castle age it feels like it towers forced though and manchester won't really find too much damage either the question is is how big is the timing window going to be here in favor of winchester with his potentially crossbows [Music] and chester now sending his archers out and now viper's paranoia is probably hitting him he's like wait a second okay the tower thing's fine but i only saw spearman and eagle there i do not see any archers so he should be looking for these if vince can get some damage in and be faster to castle age this would be huge and just selecting the second building only now finished that one therefore blacksmith and second barracks the big question though how many barracks is he going to produce out of against there yesterday we saw some mind games only two barracks and a boom behind it i like how he's just got one on stone now that one stone is gonna give him enough stone to get the second tc at the time that it would make sense really fine tuning his eco and fine-tuning the situation i think that this is a good decision from viper to take out the barracks honestly like if he takes out the barracks then finch will have to make more of them and he probably expects some sort of eagle play the vince does also have one archer in the range so as far as viper knows it could also be a lot of archers out there oh he apparently doesn't know about the five archers that are looping around and are more certainly going to find one two maybe even more villager kills viper unaware of this and completely out of position wow so good from vince oh and viper does react instantly but he still loses the villager this will still do damage to him and there's nothing worse than having the units to kill your opponent out there and then not reacting and now look the barracks could be saved at 15 hp winchester repairs the barracks forces the scouts away that might not seem like a big deal but now he has three production buildings for eagles if he keeps it up that was so impressive from winchester nice move ah but some work villager still repairing can he make it home six hp seems like yes yeah armor also would affect villagers in a second and vipers send villagers back to work but winchester distracted and oh man winchester definitely could have got one more there but i still think he'll love his current position yeah i think so as well eagles now plus three attack will easily deal with this army viper needs to run and viper is actually going to play nights here tonight probably your best play but to be off all these farms to have that forward goal just makes things so awkward for you and now he won't have many strong archers uh archer counters because the skirms are all dead and vince is just gonna add the second tc this is the best winchester i have ever seen in my six years of casting this is the best winchester i've ever seen this is so of the good behind this archers will they find more kills villagers are going to be safe most likely piper missing with his scouts that should be a dead film yeah should be a dead fill oh viper saves her and here come those eagles if there was a whole viper could be dead there is no hole viper has the potential have the strongest knights in the game if he can get some relics he still has to be open right at the second stable bit surprised no eagle warrior upgrade though these are just eagle scouts so i don't know if you want to be around those stables if you're winchester i'm just again not playing it too crazy yeah extra titty monastery longer game player yeah he's i mean he's starting to get relics too maybe the whole boom approach suits the relics but my concern for me for him is that his eagles are getting called out so i think the boom is fine but you have to keep some army alive and you have to threaten viper in some way that's a bit sloppy there from winchester those eagles took time and resources to produce especially because it's so costly on gold well we will see 4 30 see now by vince as well goes for some spearmen hmong defense should be relatively easy also he snagged the relic that was pretty close to viper instead of getting the ones that were close to him he knows that lithuanians are going to get that plus one attack on their cave perelic and he got a conversion there with the monk defense nearly though 43 villagers revenge might not look that good compared to viper's 41 however is now three tc's for winchester and if you think about how winchester liked to play incas against leary in a semi-final he loved his castles and kamayoks looks like he's gearing up for that again oh looks a bit like it pour on stone to sea on stone i don't really see him having too many problems most likely he will get i would i wouldn't be surprised if he gets up to four relics here uh viper did just research the like kev upgrade he's hunting for the monks could honestly get two here oh no run away monk run away that monk goes down the other one might actually make it back to the town center as vince is coming in with relic number two there he goes into the tc well played vince but well played viper it's annoying there to see number three by the viper as well won't fall behind an economy too far i would assume big question stole is how many ranks is the viper going to get also my thought process is is nightline even what lithuanians are gonna need here in the future viper fails to kill that monk loses the light cap but yeah i mean relics are no relics do you really want to be going knights against the save that gets cameo can help i think that's a little dangerous well maybe it's just the long term plan putting the threat a bit into the head of your opponent as well yeah they commit a bit more and then the big question like lithuanians how wild are we going to be is champions an option probably not because then slingers could be on the field there is definitely a timing with knights where they are going to be stronger much stronger than the pikeman interesting how viper just left that one relic there but he should get two one's on the way back and the other one he left behind the tree because i think he spotted the other one and he wants to get that as soon as possible and she's just adding a hat drop it off in the mid midfield there so weird yeah very very casual like he's probably like we'll just save that for later there's nights around unlikely that it will be contested manchester he's not working towards that one at the bottom that's a bit surprising to me i mean if you think about it he doesn't really have the army to contest it i guess if he gets conversions he does but maybe he's just maybe he thinks he's done a good enough job and he just wants to wait for kameoaks now okay not a big fan of winchester's castle though i mean he'll probably make more but personally i would have liked to see the castle in front of his main gold because that's a real spot of concern i am maybe felt because he already had the tower there that already is guaranteeing him some defense oh my god the archer from vince can i kill that monk vince microwave microwave more shots two more shots oh my god if that wasn't uphill the monk would be dead but wait here come the eagles vince must have noticed this he's clicked pikemen now which i don't get because he only has four spearmen and he can make cameos and then down goes the monk okay but still i think the viper should go into that direction like more likely that he will get to the third relic then vince star will and yeah i agree with you would have loved to see kamayuk over pikeman chemical just better pikemen are they not they have seven base attacks 70 hp there's four base attack 55 hp viper doesn't get a monk over there soon this could be a problem sorry what'd you say obviously they cost gold so that's a bit of a problem or like a bit more of investment but simply like they're fighting formation it's just so much better with the range oh man when will viper build this castle because vince is about to drop a forward castle on viper viper's army is protecting the monk getting the relic oh this is such a bold move from finch i love it no no no on the hill on the hill yeah there you go perfect and viper senses this and viper just leaves the area oh viper defensive castle there feels like both castles could go up viper sends more but this started a bit earlier yeah also viper getting bod canero which will give his castle extra range also he's making some skirms so it'll affect the skirms of course and vince thinks twice about it and vince is going to bail on this castle but no he's just repositioning the bills my bad is that enough can the class arrange the builds um i think it can with bodkin oh no oh no now it's a 75 castle and nilly if he completed this castle he's in the perfect spot because he could then click up the imp and he could just push viper with trebs now vince sister's having some problems and he has to decide on what he does here he's just gonna drop another one right behind it he just bought more stone that looks so ridiculous and he still cooks up to him oh that's funny oh what a weird choice you said he couldn't contest the relic because he didn't have enough army but apparently he felt like he had enough army to build a forward castle into the face of the viper yeah the thing is i don't know what's more important or no sorry i do know what's more important i think it's better to give viper the relic and take the hill as opposed to take the relic and give viper the hill um my issue is viper just defended from that so perfectly and was able to delay it at least temporarily so uh winchester loves his forward positions he's just got to make sure that he doesn't lose these villagers to this castle he would need some forward bills here oh she's not focusing on the belts casa will go up oh my god like should it not automatically aggro the villes here it did before crazy maybe it should it certainly didn't viper lost his knights nilly viper with four army what a final this has been vladimir does have a greater economy though he's at 90 eco also has the three relics you see a university for him so i think in the back of his mind he's expecting more infantry but he thinks he needs uh hand cannons and bomber cannons which are great options with lithuanians oh it will take some time to get to those numbers true chemistry has to be the first click once you get them really uncertain on if it was the move to take viper's gold here if you're winchester you did lose two villagers there i think but i guess that's viper's gold and the more you take if you lose the position the less viper will have eight on wood right now for finch which is not a lot i think okay i think he's making a new lumber camp actually oh yeah he's sending yeah but it's just there okay okay hey cameo trebs that's the plan for now he does have forward castles so if he loses these castles and he's committed towards cameo it could be a long-term issue for vince but i think he just wants to get these these castles up for trebs chemistry takes a long time to complete for viper i love that we're seeing masonry here yep it's a very good technology for viper but my issue for viper is if he's gonna be going hand cannons it's gonna take a full two minutes to get any hand cannons out yeah 90 seconds for chemistry and then he needs to produce the hand cannons yeah but is he getting threatened really right now like the hand cannons he's not really fighting right there are some raids but he has enough tc's as well i would have the thoughts or at least but can we actually they're just going straight through the tc yeah well that's it's good thinking from vince because he realizes the guy doesn't have anything and he knows that he's going to be trebbing down viper's castle and viper's rams are not going to accomplish anything here except for maybe maybe baiting some of that infantry into the castle fire while it still stands oh later shouldn't really get too much done either trap not in the greatest position at the top viper loses that castle castle of winchester's still up the chain cannoneers kind of have to be the heroes yeah they do and hand killers should be good but the problem with hand cannons is that they're very slow and they are still low hp i'm looking at these cameos melt everything and i feel like cameos if they get close enough to the hand cannons could probably kill them too and we know vince has the castles now and vince sees the other castle from the viper too and that's bad for viper he was hoping that would not be spotted winchester with so much pressure here 20 population lead he's denied gold he's denied stone he's taken out castles and he's looking for more what a great spot for the russian to be in oh yeah absolutely and can your numbers now at eight is producing some more but not the easiest defense finally bombard cannons maybe another seeds workshop in the main base of the viper could have been nice as well to snipe the traps of inch did vince get redemption because i see he's getting monk upgrades with block printing if he has redemption he's just expected this and can counter this perfectly he needs to save the monks though if he could save the monks he could convert the bomber cannons with redemption no no he lost all but won and now redemption is on the way and viper could actually push up this hill now what is this game nilly viper's populations at 130 he's still repairing the castle he might take out vince's castle he does sick performance from viper now viper's holding this castle potentially maybe winchester's even focusing away from it what he's now trying to kill the main tc instead of the castle maybe he realizes that he wants to at least destroy something before he loses the position nilly this is winchester giving up on the hill you should probably run away with those trebs now and redemption just a few seconds too late and winchester's castle will fall after that volley wow dude wow what a game this is i cannot believe this the monk gets killed off hand cannon bomber cannon op for the viper and one converted camera you for the viper now dealing with those traps actually trap repair is coming in but viper has such a good army we need to see the transition winchester is going for elite scumbags yeah i mean throughout that entire time winchester has been correcting his eco he's got really good eco now he can go into skirm which is the counter to the hand cannons but i'm just i think this has been the most impressive game of the weekend for me for both players this has been exceptional al viper didn't lose more to that i'll never know i think there's four monks man if redemption would have been a little faster maybe it would have made all the difference but now if you're vince you can't commit to camayoq you're going into skirms because you have to and viper should be thinking about how to deal with the skirms you could easily see viper go for something like hustar here yeah it's very reasonable remember he still has three relics so in the long run cavaliers might be an option the big question is is that maybe over gold investment yeah true i mean he's got 32 on gold maybe he just makes he's honestly queuing up skirms maybe he matches the inca skerms with his own skirms that's really smart to be honest because lithuanian skirms are the superior skirmishers hmm is the upgrade right oh that's true so incas would have no minimum range for their skirms and then lithuanians would have extra armor yeah i think i prefer extra armor yeah and and the speed as well would be very helpful though it seems like viper right now is going to be grouping his skirms with his bomber can so they'll probably run at the same speed oh there we go vince that's what he needed converts once it instantly couldn't get a shot off he doesn't have stone either nilly but he does have another monk and he does have good skirm upgrades viper's got to be a little careful here the treb is going to be the hardest thing to deal with if you're winchester you can't convert a treb from range and you see the monk go down well played viper as you have cameo oaks on viper's gold oh my god that has a lot of exposed villagers tell me viper's gonna notice that at some point he will okay now he's pulling the villagers but lots and lots of losses there for sure now some upgrades there for his horse's viper he's doing a nice job of expanding the one but cannon one trap the castle is falling yep castle will go down and the monk unable to get the important conversion another monk goes down finches more villes nilly but vince is is struggling to get military to deal with viper's composition right now and also some of the military for vince which is very low in numbers is actually the cameo so the guy just hasn't not been able to get the skirm numbers out and if there's still bombard cannons out the bomber cans will take care of the skirms and now more rc ranges but those are kind of being built where the viper already has his army yeah it's tougher to get the numbers then if you can't really reproduce in the back of your base there's also been a few instances and he just fixed it now where finch hasn't even had army in queue like he does have good farm count and good wood count he should have consistent skirms in queue right now viper's been a little slow to reinforcements it's just been this army and now maybe viper's dealing with some other things and you're gonna see his reinforcements come forward but he's taking losses he's falling back viper now getting calf armor it's 160 pop versus 160 pop i hope the game continues to be like this but nearly truthfully this is the best game of the weekend for me it is shaping up to be a sick 1v1 game oh yeah uh well let's see what the army composition is going to be here viper only 39 farmers not really the numbers that we want to see from a player that is thinking about hustlers now finch with 11 villes in queue at 140 villes but he's about to lose some so i guess that works out and vince uh losing villagers in the north as well viper's keeping an eye on that gold and now we have elite eagle an upgrade that i kind of missed being researched earlier because we were just talking about skirms and hand cannons vince looking to raid and viper noticing it wonderfully just house walling and trying to buy himself some time for the hand cannons indeed that's what he is doing vince's population looking better relic still incredibly even and when it came to the extra gold both of them contested in the north and in the south viper is banking so much gold right now he is a greedy boy 2k gold 25 on gold with the three relics and i guess he'll be spending gold on bomber cannons hand cannons but no sign that he'll even consider cavalier the lithuanians do get winged hussar so they can go from light cap to wind tussar as an extra trash option would be nice remember no last attack upgrade when it comes to the melee units for lithuanians it's one of the last balance patches as well so not the craziest unit ever still still missing one of the weaknesses of of incas is just that they don't get hustles they don't get stables look at the resources revenge he needs to stop making bills i'm gonna add more barracks now but i'm just thinking what does vince go for here that he's not already doing cameo is a bad choice because he doesn't have castles um eagles probably your best choice but that's a lot of resources to work with he's even getting killed so he can sell resources at the market and get more gold in return holy you cow to love it by the way the viper went for herbal medicine something i don't really understand do you think maybe lightest might be the play here with all that gold that the viper is getting it would be a very viper thing to gain advantages with this army and trash army for the next 5-10 minutes and then finish off the game with the gold army though maybe i don't foresee viper doing anything too different right now he does have wing tussar in i honestly think winged hussar and hand cannon is really really strong i mean he's mopping up these eagles the pierce army that the eagles have doesn't matter against hand cannons and plus vince doesn't have real opportunities to raid because viper's got really good defensive castles and viper's even gonna add another castle here towards the south you look at vince's army uh vince's eco sorry there's hussars running right in right now vince is gonna struggle to defend from this oh yeah that's going to be lots of dead villagers that was kind of the end in the viper versus jordan game as well yep suddenly pop 200 and then full spam of light kev and jordan drop down to pop to 120. and this is the moment that i thought we wouldn't arrive to for another 10 minutes like viper getting good value from the trash army now nilly i could see those castles producing some latest certainly he has so much gold i think yeah maybe just control more hustlers put them all on the field make sure that your opponent is not getting on to too much of an army that could potentially kill your lightest army at one point yep yep the latest or lightest whatever they're better against halb or against like melee units and paladin would be paladin is better against the range units because they have extra pierce armor but viper's just everywhere nearly he's raiding in the south he's raiding in the north vintage's pop is not bad but the positioning is as he reacts time and time again here he did get fabric shield so he now has additional armor for his eagles he's not sure if eagles are really the unit as the hand cannons are still looming large for viper in the south i was so good at controlling this and now he has control over both gold spots or both additional ones something that winches doesn't like tries to send three eagles swiper instantly reacts and hustlers finding more and more kills okay viper has a siege tower either in queue or on the map i'm trying to figure it out it must be in queue somewhere yeah he has a siege tower coming out of the middle siege workshop i'm very curious to see what viper will do with that because he denies that castle but only temporarily just the waypoint i don't even know i i imagine it's a misclick but not certain like do you put hand cannons inside the siege tower and go over the wall i'd laugh if he siege towers over the stone wall near the edge of the map it just ends up next to the palisade wall maybe it falls off the map i don't know i that could honestly be to uh soak up some aero fire or some unit attack but my guess is there's probably a misclick yeah all right a lot of fields though yeah lots of eagles lots of bombard cannons there's very few skirmishers here so the hand cannons are gonna eat this infantry for breakfast but vince accepts that because vince just wants to force the units back great play from finch if finch can take out the bomber cannons he could take out the castle and he's still alive in this game as viper sends hustars into his eco again huh population was so bad behind the viper he knew that this fight wasn't looking to be too bad because he knew the real story wasn't vicious as equal and winchester saw the siege tower and tapped out yeah i didn't realize vince's pop was so low there i mean i saw him at 100 fills but he was at 50 60 army i guess his main force was that force diving on viper's castle and in the end piper still had a bomber cannon to snipe the traps and just didn't have defensive castles and that was such an exceptional game nilly like it definitely started to shift towards viper after he cleaned up the push on the hill but man from winchester's defense in futile against scout skirm which i thought would kill him on an awful map to viper recovering and then viper somehow pushing those the double castle push back that was such a good game do you think that maybe if redemption came in a minute or two earlier winchester saves the castles or do you think it would only delay the inevitable and viper would end up taking that hill um tricky questions like you don't need to run into those conversions uh i don't i it's so tough to judge i think this scenario was just so aggressive i think lacking masonry really hurt him yeah and yeah where could you really jump i don't think redemption would have changed too much okay they don't have a better answer for vince but even though winchester lost i think his approach of going forward castle was the play how because if you sit back with defensive castles and you can't spam hussars like lithuanians can i think it's a losing battle usually and also if you think about how good viper played the semi-final when the britain commerce game was sitting back defensively in post-imp that would be another reason why i'd say finch would want to avoid that so uh vince just played that so well and he ends up not getting the win viper looking to be in the driver's seat here up 3-1 it is a best of nine of course so viper would have to win two more games of a potential five more games but man i hope every game we see whoever wins or loses i don't care i just want every game to be like that one that had everything yeah yeah it was really a game of age vampires we had the nice early aggression winchester squeezed out the fast castle and then the lots of aggression the fight for the relic nice aggressive mid game super aggressive move by vince and a nice end game yep and then also a siege tower for the memes right like life was an exceptional game and then a bunch of people are gonna be like hee-hee-hee siege tower what was that you know gotta love it dude gotta love it okay now now we i'm seeing the civilizations yeah tricky sieve matchup for the viper right because byzantines for winchester and viper having japanese feel like the only bonuses that japanese have over byzantines would be the cheaper mills mining camps and lumber camps but beyond that byzantines could do everything that japanese can do or better how could a samurai against cataphracts samurai get wrecked by cataphracts however samurai do have a weird bonus where they have a bonus against other unique units so yeah but another thing to say is that elite cataphract is a lot more expensive yeah yeah yeah true true together there is that time window where maybe viper could go samurai but i'm thinking both have full upgrades on skirms and archers but byzantine skirms are cheaper byzantines get siege ram japanese get only capped ram byzantines get bombard cannon japanese do not get bomber cannon um honestly even if it goes into hussar byzantines get hussard japanese only get light calf without the final armor it just feels like a sick matchup for winchester to maybe get a win here huh i would not mind that at all obviously a strong opening for japanese could be men at arms followed by some skirmishes lots of regression but we've seen the viper failing with that yesterday yeah that's a good point i mean we are getting ahead of ourselves but that's kind of the job of a caster you know if we just sat here and talked about the present dark age would be a little boring so winchester with a pretty good sieve in our assessment but viper is the king of of knowing his time windows nearly whether the time window is dark age feudal age castle age post imperial age he normally finds that time window and i think that time window's got to be early feudal here with some heavy heavy feudal age pressure just to stop byzantines before byzantines get rolling i'm just imagining like how the casting would work if you only talk about the presents like not even anticipating like maybe they're not taking the board if you're assuming nothing like though oh okay viper built two houses oh okay bill said eight miniature now oh wow viper's got two yellow carpets and two red carpets next to his tc oh god that's basically what low either legends is by the way because in louie the legends you never know what people are going to do you don't know if they'll create villagers or forget to create villagers or make houses or make mills or lumber camps what's your typical feudal age time in louis legends i was i guess i can't say it depends i mean if we're talking the true lovely little legends like true like 500 600 yeah let's say 500 elo futile age time is probably like 13 and a half 14 and a half minutes okay okay okay and 20. uh that can depend but i would say a little maybe even a little higher than that okay okay um and then they typically just like click all the upgrades that they know exist and they don't really wall or they don't really make any military and then eventually castle age comes in and that that could be like 24 25 minutes that's like if there was a low elo meta that would be it but certainly this would be different and you are doing this for a living yeah it's so fun dude it's amazing it's so much more fun than having one scout rush in an entire weekend i'm kidding i actually love i if i had to choose between high level age of empires and low evil legends i would probably choose high level age of empires but it's good to have options why aren't you hosting show matches tuesdays then you mean like low elo show matches no just high-level show matches on tuesdays well because variety is the spice of life oh if i if i only did if i only ate pizza then pizza would not be as good as pizza is if i have pizza once a week it's the same you can see that if i can never have sex because if i once have sex it could be good i'm sure that's the reason why right yeah the reason is just just to make sure that very good thing is uh that's quite as good as we go forward right that's also why i've never won an h empire's tournament to make the first time feel even more special see nearly as someone who's actually won an s tier age of empire's tournament i can tell you that i would love to win another one and it feels fantastic and i'm sure that i would win or i i would feel great if i won every tourney much like viper has over the his career but this is how he made dark hd interesting but winchester going for his barracks again and winchester's gonna send militia forward viper went mill first and this barracks timing tells me it could be men at arms but also is japanese and this timing is slightly earlier than you could afford with any other sieve okay okay so aggression to be expected but vince's walling off will have quite reasonable berries woodline he went for the more exposed one instead of the one next to the berries yeah i see that interesting choice there from the viper probably expecting that he's going to be going for more lumber camps here and viper is going to do exactly what i feel is best here early feudal pressure byzantines do not have any eco bonuses so viper already taking advantage of the bonuses that we think will separate him from the byzantines saving 150 wood on these eco buildings and he's on his way up and honestly this could be man-at-arm into archer but it also could just be a very fast archer opening hey i'm curious to see what we will have here my prayer okay now q is a militia huh someone said someone should host a tournament with casters only finals between nilly and t90 would be interesting that would just i can't i have one tournament win that's estier and i cannot i will not be involved in that because i want to hold that over nearly for the rest of his life nilly would beat me guys actually right now i'd have a little bit more of a chance but right now is your best chance ever yeah probably yep probably ever yeah yeah yeah so anyways on that note since you're in charge of tournaments and whatnot i'm thinking i want to host an event next weekend what do you think about that what kind of event uh 1v1 event with some up and coming players who are pretty good but not quite good enough to get into the top 20 top 30. yeah so without me [Laughter] all right all right they're well played viper hits feudal gets some hits there on the scalp and he did make the militia so the men at arms are running forward finchester scout has been tagging along with his militia there's a chance that finchester won't know this is coming but holy great walls of russia over here from vince what in the world is this he just needs to make sure there's a palisade oh god could they squeeze through there no no they can't viper even lost half of his hp there he could debate on canceling man at arms if he didn't get his wood upgrade but i think he's able to squeak by here but winchester with good defensive plays here i think he recognizes how this matchup will go nearly he just has to keep himself in this one okay militia doing quite a lot of damage against the house look at how fast it's losing hp yeah and that is with extra hp for byzantines i'm not even sure if one village is enough to repair i i'm with you on that he will get more hp soon no it's going to go down and no winchester oh man just add a couple extra houses or maybe add some palisades there this is what viper needed viper kills the ville off to a great start and also we'll have some range units coming forward behind all this oh he's opening the wall oh that's ballsy okay vince not scared of those three-minute arms on the edward line again anticipating the viper to move around and well he's doing exactly that and speaking of of ballsy or gutsy moves viper is just going to place the mill on the hunt on the front and he's just going to hope that vince doesn't notice that davinci has plenty of problems at home and now honestly the palisade could go down pretty quickly as well the japanese man at arms on the hill and skirms now being produced one archer for the defense piper with a big big aggression here i love to see it people in my chat are arguing over if i actually won an s-tier tournament yes it was a 10k tourney it was battle royale so no one really cares except for the winner but technically technically i'm pretty sure that an s2 turn is only non-invitation you have to have qualifiers to have a nasty attorney hidden companies technically had an invitation as did nac i don't know you have to have qualifiers like it was don't ruin my dream don't ruin my dreams just stop okay let me think it alright let me think it winchester kills the archer and now we could kill a villager from viper viper trying to do a lot right now and i think this was risky and if winchester can get a veil pick as winchester tries to block the quick wall winchester will like his position he gets the vil pick uh-huh and all of a sudden he is solid two and a half villagers ahead here the viper had so much idle time tried to make so much happen here the what was the pop 23-minute arm play oh my goodness nealy look at viper's idol tc time one minute of idle tc time so he's behind in villagers because he didn't create any now you've got the byzantine player on skirms you've got the byzantine player walt and this is the perfect scenario for winchester yeah he has to love it there's no way he will be broken look at that he doesn't even bother to finish off that last minute yeah maybe having mercy on him because he's feeling so confident at this point i don't know but i don't see a world where there's any bonus that looks good for japanese from this point on in the game not saying that viper can't win because they're probably both going to play into some ranged units anything can happen but in terms of bonuses the eco bonuses for viper are pretty much already been used granted he still can make cheap lumber camps but that's whatever and then byzantine's just all about the cheap units and the better units ancestor lots of success against leary by going fast in privilege byzantine's arguably the best civilization at that yep we see it again so far mainly scum is not really the imp unit but maybe if we would see transition into more crossbows later on yeah viper i think kind of having to play by uh by his reactions right now and he expected the skirms he did not get fletching he now sees the skirms have arrived and he is to run away good job not losing any villagers but now that scout gets hit by the cheap spearman a great microphone bench there that's so good from him women's still full hp yeah and the second spearman is arriving as well and viper won't have skirms pretty soon good job there from winchester uh great timing on everything here this viper has now invested food into scouts and viper's getting destroyed here this this is an awful position for vicer to be in only now going for fletching viper trulian some problems and this is again the viper tried to play super aggressively try to play wild this reminds me of his bulgarian game against jordan yeah a little bit and maybe it's just not like if you were to reverse roles obviously viper would probably excel but i think viper as good as he is with everything maybe he's just not the one to kill real fast in feudal age he gets little advantages stems that into later stages of the game and he felt that pressure not do what he needed to do so far in this game it's so good from finch i have to say because i feel like that when that first spear came forward it should have died but he somehow kept that alive and then it bought time for the second spear yeah really nice micro nose oh my god the whole still at finch's base you're kidding me the hole is still at finch's base or he didn't plug the gap i don't know what's happening no way i'm not sure either somehow it's open and archers and scouts are in should be some dead villagers make it too oh man i mean vince still could be fine as he always saves himself here nearly with the good quick walls but jeez that was so avoidable for finchester as he's on his way to castle age third villager dies and there's low edge people it's just like going back to work no way oh wait wait no she won't survive viper will get her and there's not another one no way another one another one that bothers me that i couldn't think of what to say that brings me so much pain because vince had done everything right except for that hole in the wall and now while vince is still in a good spot because he's the much faster castle age he's given viper a way back into this holy cow that's got to be frustrating for finch but a massive difference in up times here finch is going to be up after 21 minutes viper will be up at like 24 minutes which is remarkably slow no no absolutely and still no real control over his map look at that it's like buildings everywhere it looks a bit like an empire wars generation like so uncontrolled no real proper base design just felt like he built the buildings not really for the long term but just like okay i need them now yep piper we'll see that stable he's got an army of one scout and five skirms so a single night i mean even without the night winchester can probably push that army because he has more ranged units the viper with the ville lead but bench also with the potential to always just add a second tc and catch up with bill's i think finch will still be okay here nilly i'm not producing any army right now i think we need to see more skirms for him otherwise how does he think he can survive have you ever seen viper have two and a half minutes of tc idol time in this type of a game that's crazy long right that's that's five bills essentially well he is a guy who on the top level is someone who cuts some corners and is idling a bit more than for example hera or larry that go for tc and then think okay when can i squeeze in the upgrade sometimes the viper is going okay i want minute arm now i want fletching now but yeah it's untypically high for sure i think maybe early feudal but mid-feudal that was a bit tricky i think maybe he was microing his archers when that happened and tc goes up for vince vince also pushing viper off of gold off of two woodlines piper running to the back of his base half his villagers are running right now and what is viper gonna make here viper's gonna go skerms this is what we said skirms against byzantines who have cheaper skirms and and the byzantine player already has knights out six skirms now one knight it's not a scary army by the viper but this is like group of scums that are half dead scaring me too much either is this game perhaps a sign that maybe there's a bit of fatigue for the viper at the moment or do you think it's just yeah byzantines vs japanese and the sif matchup's just too tough i think it's not fatigue it's game five it's not the craziest games and well the viper tried to make something wild happen he loves the controls controlled games and this certainly was none of those yeah there's not many crossbows here for winchester but he's gonna loop in with his camels and knights also has the skirms on the other side i mean it's 19 military verse seven and even that number of crossbows will end viper's game if the skirmishers are not in the mix and viper skirms oh and the crossbows get through all viper skirmishers are not going to be enough here oh man this is too nice trying to micro them away viper basically no military left yeah and finches on two town centers producing villagers behind this you've got to imagine and and very patient here i like the patience and he'll find the villagers here on the gold and winchester thankfully for him actually get some uh redemption after that mistake if that would have been a game ending mistake he would have been frustrated with himself think about how far ahead he was before that right that he loses four or five villagers there and still has such a massive army and castle age time advantage and viper i'm surprised that he is trying to fight this one off still it looks so bad for him so much army in this face when i get tired and or frustrated and this is the only reason i asked about the fatigue i got like six different lumber cams three different mining camps and i'm constantly relocating bills and even if i'm not losing them i'm just like continuing to play because i'm i think i'm fine to relocate so that's why i brought it up it just still looks so messy he's got no wind condition if he just goes skirm surely but you know what as i say that he's got a decent number of them he hasn't lost more villagers than winchester but uh i think he will in just a moment as the crossbows will hit the woodline on the other side scums are a good unit to defend even against like camel crossbow composition now goes for another tc uh more crossbows though finding the kills like you mentioned i love how winchester has used this army in the back of viper's base to buy him opportunity for the other army if he would have just fought and died and viper would have never lost those villagers on the wood line he would have never had to leave the wood line delete another house and have it be this messy i also love the amount of units that winchester's making he's making crossbows he's making camels and he's making skirmishers so he really isn't letting viper rest at all here as he's still producing out of all his tc's but he does make a mistake he runs underneath viper's tc and that's an army down for winchester plus the other army is being lost as well camels went down there crossbows will fall after it and viper with the military advantage 12 villagers behind viper i don't want to say he's still in this one but i understand why he didn't resign okay yeah do you think there was a reason that we saw camels from vince i think viper made a knight or two but do you think it's better to make camels because it's cheap with byzantines or maybe make a few nights because i think the knights would just do so much better against viper's skirm play i agree with that not sure what army he was expecting initially obviously he saw viper going for some knights and therefore camels made a lot of sense now that viper is mainly on skirmishers it feels like camels lose their value a bit i feel like vince's eco is going to have some problems here soon he's going to have too much on gold his wood efficiency is having some some hard times hyper on two tcs i i could i'm with you nilly i could definitely see a world where viper could maybe start pushing out across the map and someone had said over here it's like viper's so good with comebacks good on him for staying in this see what he can do here in this matchup hmm okay cross for skirm for the viper it's going for some upgrades but obviously mangano is pretty solid against that yeah my issue with vince right now is just that he doesn't seem to know what to make he's making skirms crossbows manganese and uh camels and i think if honestly if he would have just committed to double range skirms and crossbows with ballistics he probably would have been fine but the camel's kind of sprinkled in the siege kind of sprinkled in he doesn't really seem to know what he wants to make but man is this position still really strong manual losing some hp the viper is trying to cut reinforcement knowing that he can't really take the fight against the mangano but that's what he thinks but actually is doing quite well it's still really sloppy with this manga at the front yeah he's trying to do a third tc now on the wood line and the stone vince may be flirting with the idea of him but winchester's army can't really push into viper's base and this is what viper needs he knows he's behind but he knows he needs to try and do some type of counter attack ballistics on the way to nilly so there's plenty of opportunity with the ranged units on the field for the viper but just not too many areas to hit for him right now as he chooses to maybe turn around and mop up vince's army that's coming home oh but we are going on the way to mph winchester if he gets brazer the viper's army won't do too well trying to chase this army down though the viper's still lacking ballistics and i think he will be surprised by the early environment system just just go three or four range skirms at this point just skirm skirm arbalest uh of course a future castle bomber cannons maybe rams could be helpful but when you have this big of an eco lead and you're on three tc's the only way you lose this game is if you don't mass enough skirms if you're vinch and vince is going to try and hold to the hill oh man there's a chance that viper could do this there's a slight chance viper could maybe do this no ballistics for winchester right now nearly and he's behind in the numbers second siege workshop viper trying to dodge this knight could maybe go no he won't go anywhere mangano hits have to be crucial there have been some really big hits so far and i also like how his ranged army's been able to get away manchester evening the numbers should get another volley off at least and yeah viper doesn't have a crucial area vince's eco to hit with his army and he also can't hit the force from vince great job from vince who's still only on two ranges though only two ranges seems really bad and one of them is super exposed will be interesting mega no not popping viper will get to kill nice one manchester you got to be careful now uh moving out with that army he's going to try and get behind viper i guess and trap him bracer he's getting arbalest bracer and ballistics good upgrades here viper also distracting the farming eco piper's eco isn't looking too hot either only 16 on food he's got a lot on gold 24 on gold as i guess he's just doubling down on the siege and he's going to test winchester's micro here nilly register stood a lot of tests this game brazer finished obelisk will finish as well and then castle age army really good choice yep and then winchester's showing you that so it's been a little dicey it's been a little messy for winchester uh but he is here he is in the imperial age and he still has an eco lead and now he has the tech lead though not a numbers lead i think he's just gonna wait and be patient there are the ranges he's been so far ahead in this game nilly hasn't been as clinical as maybe we expected but i think there's no doubt in my mind anyways he will end up pushing viper back here i mean viper could go for a defensive castle oh viper with a big shot wow why why did winchester move into that he was using his range so nicely just allowed a big headshot for the viper oh yeah another shot even oh another head shot and he can get another volley who's with the man oh my god finch you can't keep letting him get away with this he's got 16 army in him viper has double the army now and vipers continues to send forward more siege and i think vince will be distracted and even lose this loses a few more units to castle age siege now he's splitting he sees microwave now there you go well played winchester who does have to clear up viper's uh raiding force in the north now or i guess the east let's see how he tries to do that obviously scarborough should be fine especially if i would be sitting on the tc but sits out of range for now remember the arms and skirms for finch have more range than viper's army so even with lesser numbers you should push that it's kind of why we've been expecting viper to die and yeah viper's going to go tower defense now but bomber cans are already out for winchester okay then the question is agatha was going to be the answer there obviously against obelisk the good option i think once the bomber cannons come out you start to have a lot of questions could just be going skirms here he seems to be making a lot of arms arms is fine too i guess eco has been so messy this game overall for both players has been the messiest of the series oh yeah yeah probably well both kind of wanted it like that right but with lots of aggression now sends villagers in to kill the bombard cannon what are we witnessing well we have villagers to repair the bomber cannons too so it's a party okay that's funny hyper 90 villes and now the military counts even but you have more eco for vince and you have imp army for vince viper is pretty dead still no imperial age for him and vince is gonna is gonna uh drop a castle right on viper's face as he's trying to go to him viper heavily using the market will try to click up to imp as well got our defense towards the top but that cost it's just going to be so good yeah and how do you stop it can you stop it manganelle goes down so that won't work ombud cannon will just take out viper's town centers beneath it he's got two tc's beneath it not to mention the farms and the wood and the gold bomber cannons can't be stopped and finally vince he's had time to breathe and so he just keeps sending units forward and it was a messy game very messy game but winchester gets the win and it is three to two here in the finals viper uh just unable to really execute in futile age in this game nearly yeah just fell behind the minute arms although they distracted a bit slowed down the viper so much behind this one as well and yeah we're often talking like how efficient minute arms are because yeah you get onto a lot of food get your farm eco set up and then we go into archers but the viper we tried to go early minute arms skirm follow-up didn't really have the farms and winchester with a clean defense although we had some makeups obviously yeah of course and i think winchester had his the match up to help um in some of those hiccuppy moments like if you lose those bills and you're going up towards castle age and the sieves are more even i think you're starting to feel a sense of dread but instead he he took advantage john nilly tell me if you relate to this uh everyone's different so i'm not sure i want to make sure that i'm not the only one let's say you play three or four really clean games win or lose doesn't matter but really clean games where you you don't have any mental fog and everything's good and then you have one game yeah you try i know i do too um but then you have one game where it's like super messy holes in walls kind of scatter brain awkward just like that one i think both players had a messy game can you just snap out of it when you get into the next game and go right back into that clean crazy precision or does your mind kind of stay in that that fog that existed in the previous game it depends a bit on like how i screwed up right if it was like a bad shift matchup and i tried to make something happen it's way easier to forget about that game and jump into the next one yeah compared to okay i played a clean game but somehow everything felt off okay well in my eyes there was some things off there economically for both players like that that was sloppy for both players so i'm just i wanted to bring that up before the next game because it's just an interesting thing that we need to touch on um the mental aspect is so huge in sports but also esports and i think the fatigue maybe we'll be setting in a little bit as we go deeper into the series but truthfully it hasn't really been the longest set of games we've had a few go to imp but a lot end in castle h2 yeah and also remember it's for right now they only played five games yeah they started early in the day it's not crazy although like when did we start this we started like three hours ago right yeah three hours ago okay for five games in it's not not that short either yeah of course for me it says two hours 50 minutes and i we had like the draft as well so i don't know but yeah i think when i hit three hours playing that's when i start to dip a little bit i just wanted to ask you on how you feel everyone's different like mbl can play game one the exact same way he plays game 25 um because he just has a lot of stamina uh some players are like that some players are not yeah well viper had lots of best of sevens in his lifetime some sets were even longer remember you cast a set of his best of 11. and he still made it happen but we had a break in that one oh they did do like a half time break for the best of 11 yeah yeah 11 and best of 13 yeah yeah i i mean you and i have had this conversation i think we learned different mindsets on this i think s of nine for arabia is probably fine but i would never go over best of nine personally as a tournament host i think that going over that is just excessive and it doesn't it gives it increases the quantity of games but it does not increase the quality of games and it does not help you determine a winner i think best of nine for rabia's fine if it's non-arabia i personally would would stay with my best of sevens okay okay yeah i i think my nsc approaches were a bit wild there half times at least but yeah that's kind of like the tournament organizer trying to squeeze everything like viewers are tuning in for the finals sure yeah but are you just really turning into a six hour finals and watch it the whole time no i mean it's it's funny though because the game runs a lot smoother now we have less lag and we also have i would i think it's fair to say less drops and less restores than we did before the definitive edition never came out but really long best of fives best of sevens were were more common back in the day because we had restarts and uh restarts meaning you don't like your map well before five minutes you can call restart and then you go back to the lobby and then doubt has to go to smoke shisha for five minutes before they restart it and like you'd be sitting there half your day almost if you were playing best of fives and best of seven so it feels like we have maybe longer uh sets with gameplay but less down time and less other shenanigans we had best of nine finals with like both teams having three restarts i remember that was the wsvg cast i believe uh yeah like it was like nations cup finals canada versus china i think before wsvg or something like that and i think it took seven and a half hours to finish and imagine seven and a half hours for what like 500 viewers yeah on good days on good days on good days yeah right 400 something like that i'm not at all saying that you should compromise on good tournament settings for viewers because i think you can have good tournament settings and they have good viewers but like on paper that just seems so crazy what we did back then man oh that's a 10 minute spec delay holy moly yeah 10 minutes back delay oh god all right well maybe we'll have to sit down and just talk about the good old days sometimes put that into a video but we have this game maybe one day maybe one day we haven't been around long enough yet um sicilians for winchester and tatars for viper oh boy fun civ match up here nilly and it always is interesting when you've got the sicilians involved someone wise yesterday said that sicilians are being played against best if you just go for strong gold units yep someone's very right very very wise yeah and i think sitars should shine at that we've often seen them go for lots of ca go seen them for maybe go night maybe go kashic so i think this could potentially be one of the weaker matchups for caesareans yep now i can agree with you on that yeah i mean the logic is everyone talks about how you counter the sicilians because you can't make things like elite skirmish you can't make pikeman be as effective with any bonus damage so simply don't play into bonus damage at all just go for the kill and also in terms of the approach nilly guitars are a very all in civ as is you tend to see fast ballistics behind the free thumb ring for their archers and then on this map you've got hills everywhere you can do 25 more damage on the hill as viper is going to try and steal some goats here this is crucial oh god how is this play out the goat trying to get the three goats here tries to go on the hill maybe you could split them around okay let's take the fight from the hill goes for that goat now don't let him kill the goat oh god this is crazy and yeah just splits them and talking about hill bonus right typically in age empires you get 25 percent but it's asked another additional 25 points but obviously minus 50 percent from sicilian so to task doing 37.5 wait wait a second wait wait a second wait a second the sicilian resistance the bonus damage applies to the tatar hill bonus i thought it just applied to units i'm pretty sure that's a bonus damage i mean i guess that makes sense but i never thought about it um 37.5 sure okay all right i'll take that the timing on winchester's elephant was perfect and if viper brings these goats back and it looks like he will successfully he gets 50 more food on his goats it's funny i have two people responding one person says nealy's wrong the other person says nobody's right boy thanks mom [Laughter] oh jeez well map wise you've got a very forward goal for the viper so another reason to be offensive but he has a gold in the back as well to use map for winchester i could see being awkward with the forward berries in the hill but i'm sure he'll like the back woodland and the gold so as far as map gems go pretty fair pretty standard stuff okay now someone needs to go into the editor and please tell us yeah this is where honestly t west is probably listening and he's like all right i'm just gonna make a video about this because it's a really interesting thing uh nah i think it's too too basic right it's like one question so maybe like i think would be like the mystery of hill bonuses well there can be other examples to that too right like i'm sure that the hill bonus for tars is one aspect of the video and then you have regular hill bonus is one aspect of the video but that's not bonus damage so maybe not i think you could maybe think of some other examples i'm being told the video has already been made and spirit of the law confirmed that sicilian bonus does not affect hill bonus i have i have one saying i saw the spirit of the law video and nearly is 100 right it's so dumb oh god this is amazing man this community is so smart i love it at least 50 of them yeah but at least 37.5 of them oh god there goes vince on the way up i mean this is really what makes age of empires amazing though the fact that we nilly uh not that we are the the supreme leaders when it comes to knowledge but we don't even know 100 on some of these things yeah i only know 37.5 percent of the game is that is that a new thing we have 7 out of 10 and now 37.5 is that those the memes only for this game okay perfect it probably would get boring after this game the viper later much later through the feudal age but that's because he's got the drush here and viper trying to get that bill is using the hill bonus may or may not have more or less damage output but kills the villager i think that's the first time we've seen a two militia josh kill a phil in this final a winchester getting a taste of his own medicine and that hurts man tricky stuff scout only 35 hp here as well and viper now clicks up to futile age himself we'll get some nice control and one of the few games where winchester didn't open with the drush of the law should do math on what percentage of the time caches are correct about stats don't give them ideas uh well nilly this is a prime example of of how going scouts can be punished on this open map he could have pre-walled it of course probably could have done a better job scouting but the two militia thing just allows you to have a little bit of extra control before the feudal age shenanigans start and viper will be happy here he will know that this will probably be a scout build from finchester but he's got a little bit of walling completing in the south and he'll probably just go into some spearmen and some archers that said he hasn't gone to gold yet and you probably need to make a few extra spearmen when you're up against the sicilians no yeah or you adjust wall because you think your cases my spearmen will be weaker and the viper is sending three on gold maybe just an archer defense here and won't care about that one too much maybe just one two spearmen for the very early aggression event we'll see this vince sees the woodline he is so late to scouting vipers eco good job here being annoying viper should start to play some walls if he's expecting the scouts actually no i think the timing is going to work out and this is really why you see the two militia play over the three because if he added the third militia he would have spent a little bit more food would be a little later to feudal age and then these two scouts would be arriving there'd be no spearmen so that's why the meta changed do you think the meta will shift back to three militia on uh like non in the desert versions of arabia i don't know i don't think so i think people i i i think the map didn't really make a big difference in this interesting it's a bit the wall thing yeah the walls i think yeah okay just just curious viper with five military only two for vince but vince did get his wood and farm upgrade so his eco is going to be looking pretty uh he gets plenty of food on the sicilian farms 300 plus on each farm and he's adding a range at home to go into some skirts okay well viper blacksmith and goes for the farm upgrade enjoys his sheep having more food and takes a little fight there to be one scouts now gets away not too much killing happening yeah not really i feel like the natural progression here is for viper to add a stable over the next couple minutes because he needs an answer to skirmishers or he can get his archers forward and sneak and get damaged in on vince before vince knows what's up but by press the blacksmith now andy's got the range you'd expect fletching see scouts and vipers near future if finches still plays open isn't viper open between the blacksmith and the woodline there i think this could be pretty scary i think he is winchester didn't notice that though i'm trying to look oh i i mean i'm full zoom on that that's definitely a hole also exposed towards the south but the scout's really unable to do anything if the spearmen are around viper trying to kill that uh scout from vince where did his archers go didn't he have both sides oh okay vince might be a little alarmed by that because vince just saw one archer and there was no flag on the range that doesn't add up sneaky from the viper i think what happened there was he didn't mean to send that fourth archer forward but the gather point was there from when he had ejected these three i think he had him there to fight off one scout that was chasing his scout yeah maybe it's very possible here comes vince very dangerous army viper spearman out of position but viper's gonna run right by just passing and vince doesn't see it oh boy oh this is gonna hurt vince so much he does react but the wood lines back there one villager down it's gonna be at least two you think and of course all the idol time this is painful meanwhile will winchester be able to return the favor with all the damage here doesn't seem like it at least not for now a viper will not have the scout numbers yet the wise move from viper is to run away from the wood line i i like that move [Music] because if he went in with one scout he'd go in too early two villagers have been killed by viper by the way he's microing down the skerm it's not any harder to kill sicilian skirms it's harder to use skirms against sicilians it's the perfect approach from viper so you will get another ville and now there's nothing at the wood line anymore viper can just take his time huh and he's fine most of his eco is still working yeah to move some villagers but he just needs to wait for like four scouts and he's fine yeah that was a little sloppy from vince now the one thing that's interesting here is that well as vince runs right through the town center and will lose everything now oh just going to say the only thing that's interesting is that viper doesn't have as much on food vince has plenty of food income so viper will probably have to use the market to have a competitive castle age but still now what does winchester have against scouts and archers ah not too much probably has to defend with some skirmishes here but viper in full control five villages ahead nice military lead and viper knows okay i don't have that much on food moves out to the deer yeah also has the farms i think with that much on gold he will probably mark it as well and buy food this is it's sloppy at home for viper but it's certainly not as bad as vince really just doesn't have the units scouts on the field means that winchester is going to need some spearmint and the way the the typically works is that the archers pick off the spears and the scouts pick off the skirms but it's easier said than done let's take a look only two spearmen around are just trying to dodge now a scout joining the party the viper i think this looks good he simply has the stronger army he does i would love to see him even making a little more in the way of scouts because only two scouts is a little risky not be able to kill the skirms with only two full upgrades for winchester viper losing some marchers here and he's just gonna send the scouts into vinci's base which isn't bad because there's some weak villagers from earlier and that could lead to a villager kill with the hill involved piper goes in winchester coming home with his full army i'm civilization regardless yep and oh he saw the weak one on the wood line went in for that viper with the mark it clicks up here and nearly i kind of asked after game number four is there a chance that maybe things get a little sloppier i still feel like it has definitely the quality of the play overall has gone down a little bit overall but i think finchester man he didn't scout like he scouted so well in all the other games for the drush and then he didn't see that army come in and now viper's gonna be ultra sneaky with the other archers oh man finchester's having some big problems they're just not even trying to chase this one down is he is he trying to go for the counter attack that feels well he hasn't actually seen those archers in two minutes maybe a minute and a half because what he did was he pulled all of his skirms back when the scouts went in they completely lost the archers okay but still you have to sit at home now i think i agree yeah you never move out but maybe after losing five bills he feels the need to move out doesn't feel like it's gonna make any sense though when the enemy can add a scout or two even if they're in futile he does have patrolling spearmen he is also adding a donchian on his gold so it seems like he yeah even with the house wall we'll know that viper's gonna head this direction sneaky sneak from viper to the other side winchester will miss this and that uh will be good for viper because he knows he can move out comfortably now without having to worry about the skirms now waits a bit longer probably waits for bodkin and crossbow to click and then moves out has an easy defense with two knights at home oh viper is he he sees army in his face but it's no threat at all yep viper is going to come in near the mill in the front winchester will react to this will winchester know the other army's coming in look at that good job from vince man say what you want about the last five minutes but that was good from him prepping the house wall and building the dungeon were two very important things but it still means he's still far behind crossbows could still range some of this eco the farms and the wood will be in jeopardy oh god and cross was now from two angles can reach the that wood line he can only drop in the center this is so ugly for vince and vince would need to wait for for upgrades vince would need to wait for units he loses his seventh villager he does bring all those skirms back now to kill one of viper's armies could maybe kill both the viper isn't careful fight for microring one of them and not the other one right now so okay winchester will get the military lead and a little sloppy from the snake as i think he's going for the crazy boom here third tc going up for viper okay catch the upgrades yeah and obviously with the extra sheep will be pretty fine for him actually a crossbow survived at the left-hand side on the left-hand side oh yeah but here come the knights okay viper keeps this crossbow alive and kills the skirms with the knights i'm gonna lose it come on viper you should lose it yeah here we go okay okay okay but you notice how we haven't really had that conversation of oh my god it's hard to counter sicilians because of how vipers played this right he's going crossbow knight and it's a sicilian player going into trash units sicilians are not byzantines they don't have cheaper trash they don't have any bonus where they do more damage with their trash units so it's just not the spot you'd want to be in if you're vince but unfortunately for him he is here as he's going to add a tc on the left side very risky because viper has the knights there but winchester can wall this one off has his army around as well and he will go up obviously some dead would because he will delete those houses hyper got some good value from the knights though is getting an attack in buying himself some time and time is what he's needed here i say needed he hasn't really needed it i mean he's he's brought himself the time but he could have done with less time 58 bills for viper it very much reminds me of the uh huns versus berber's game where viper just falls back he's gonna go into cav archers and he goes for the town centers and he just invites the pressure um let's take a look at the attack now i think it's siege workshop could actually be something here for the viper well he does need to counter the skirm and crossbow it doesn't have the cav archers yet so it's either knights or it's siege or you could just play musical chairs and you could just run to different woodlines which is viper's current choice there's musical chairs yeah you've never played musical chairs i think i didn't know the name of it but like where the music stops and yeah yeah yeah that's musical chairs what do you got what did you guys call it okay well uh like traveling to jerusalem is the german name but oh really pretty sure there will be different names for it yeah yeah yeah okay well there's the siege workshop for viper but winchester's pushing in pretty far here and it's worth the risk at this point because he needs to find damage but viper's tc's are just perfectly positioned vince hasn't been able to kill much viper's cav archers move freely to the front and only on two tcs and oh god his oh no he's not god he's on three i'm sorry but he has recovered there hmm this is a tricky phase of the game and i'm a bit surprised that vince is going back maybe he feels okay the counter attack needs to be answered he's sitting on three tc's just still feels like viper is in so much control he runs in he forces a reaction from vince and then he just runs away it's so easy to do when you've got the ca and it's so easy when you had such a good feudal age i mean he had a good dark age too right he stole the goats from winchester and then he also killed the ville and from there it was just the viper's just making the better decisions i've actually had less questions over civilizations and and just more questions over gameplay which is how it should be and like we're even getting relics right now it honestly feels like this is not even torny viper right now he's just like uh rated game let's be greedy let's boom because i can do it i'm that good ah well he also goes for knights he was around with some ca he is going for mangonels he is getting kashik next most likely and now well trying to find what his manganal is going to achieve winchester doesn't have the greatest counter yeah i mean normally if you're not ahead in economy you need to be ahead in military and winchester unfortunately is not a hidden economy or in military here his army is so much more vulnerable not only to just the knights but also the siege that's out there cav archers are better against siege than skirmishers and crossbows are this could be forward castle territory for viper he doesn't need it i think he'll probably opt for safe defensive castle with like three villagers or something viperesque but um yeah oh the phil's coming ah okay but i would have agreed i would have agreed if your sentence finished 30 seconds earlier i would have said yeah the typical whiteboard thing to do but oh not this time at least so my thought is against sicilians this is a potential to throw the game if you commit to a forward castle they can build their own castle so much faster but he's still got so much army viper's thinking about it he's going to repair his manganell viper is going to place the castle vince does see this here it goes but i don't know if vince can even complete his 720 stone went for the ground attack but a bit late knights are moving in i don't really see vince are finishing this one oh and he might build castles faster with sicilians but he doesn't have the army nilly so the forward castle from viper was the perfect play it denies the gold it disrupts the economy and from here viper can do anything we could see the keshiks like you mentioned keshix could be huge and winchester's just toast here that army's gonna get wiped up there's no way this army survives he can only run for so long okay never mind he deleted the house uh tries to avoid the magno shot there but it doesn't really matter and uh should we say it is the drop or help just a gg okay just a gigi winchester has just been getting outclassed and he got completely outclassed in this game by viper who was quick to the decision to go for the militia he surprised winchester in feudal age he had the proper defense and counter attack it was a perfect game three archers killing four villagers defending from the scouts and the skirms with the scouts and then the booming castle for the eventual castle drop can viper be stopped by winchester at this point viper is one win away and he needs one win out of the next three potential games it's going to be so tricky for the russian three in a row and we will have to take a good look at the civilizations then yeah viper's ability to go 3tc was there's been two games in this series where his ability to go 3tc is because he's able to get the cast light so much faster without taking damage the hun game and the guitar game and he just he just steam rolls from there there's no stopping him if he gets there yeah yeah yeah he and the hands game he went to like five dc's or something yep he's such a macro beast and every single time we see him dictating the game and playing his comfort zone yeah it just feels like we we would need illyrio herrera in their prime to really contest that yeah of course leary got stomped by winchester 4-1 and hera also got stomped by winchester 3-2 if i recall maybe 3-2 doesn't come off as quite a stomp but winchester beat yo hera and leary like a lot of the names you'd bring up as to who could kill viper and he is here and he hasn't been able to find an answer either [Music] i still think back to uh the scouting for vince because the players have done such a good job scouting this series and and the two militia drush is so common getting surprised and losing a villager on ferry forward berries i think is a misplay you've got to either have it walled in if you haven't scouted it or you have to scout it [Music] it's not walling in your berries just in 2021 feels so sloppy you've seen so many players doing it over and over again and especially with those open berries maybe he felt okay the timing is so early it can only be two minutes and i can fight it off but as we saw the viper found the kill there and also how long he took the fight against the first two militia felt wrong it looks like i i made some mistakes here in my draft okay so winchester has uh he's got ethiopians britain's aztecs remaining and bohemians excuse me viper has chinese he has vietnamese saracens and khmer like chinese is the one that stands out to me that civ is probably his best overall civilization there but also britain's and aztecs can give chinese some problems and really any sieve that viper has remaining some problems yeah britain's an ad6 should be some pretty solid win potential games and i think we need to see them well latest next game yeah and i think this game could make a lot of sense and i already saw the civilizations winchester is going for his second pick basically the britons and the viper will come up with the khmer play and khmer bittens we have seen that yesterday and today already um and and it's actually exciting to me if this game goes late because i was very curious on how the game would have gone between jordan and viper if it would have been flip-flopped and you had jordan with britain's and viper with khmer because i think viper would have won from jordan's position with khmer jordan wasn't able to finish off viper as he was britain's and now viper gets to show us what he can do but the key here for vince is a mass of archers that's the key massive archers big ball of crossbows i know cheap tc's with britain's is also very strong and i'm sure winchester will do that but i feel like if you're falling back to town centers without archer numbers with britons just not building up towards anything exciting and you'll have some problems oh yeah well unless you go wall of traps but yeah yeah i can absolutely see that and winchester we have seen him play fast in quite a bit and we have seen lily play that one today as well so could be an interesting strategy the viper though a person that could be good at making something happen and carsolates to punish that okay if finchester ever needed a helpful map jen this would be it this is the most open map jen i think we've seen so far in the finals but if you look at vince he's got one back wood line back berries back gold viper's got two wood lines similar to vince but they're both forward and the berries and gold this forward tough for the viper here yeah yeah i actually like vince's does map more yeah it will be ugly when it comes to walling the front but simply has to be some buildings and a really small base and everything has to be in the back just like you predicted so we have khmer civilization known for a strong scout rush okay we have a very open map probably the most open map we've seen in the finals will we see a scout opening from viper well we will see uh rhino already taken here plus two sheep this is really bad for winchester who's already pushing some ostrich oh no this is huge like you can recover if you lose a rhino you lose 400 food you can recover but if you lose two sheep and also the rhino that's where you have some big problems we have not seen a lot of heavy laming in the finals here but viper may be realizing how strong the britons can be and how open the map is runs forward gets the lame and vince is just running forward blind hoping he's gonna find this i think he has to accept that he's not gonna get it nearly maybe he'll get lucky and find his goats or maybe he'll steal something back from viper but viper with a great start to the game i bet a weird pathing though they're trying to get to cc i think he's trying to buy himself more time so that the sheep finishes yep and he can get to the rhino now let's see if viper takes his other rhino because there's an opportunity for vince to steal that vince could commit to this viper could try and just bring in the rhino now or viper will allow vince to take it there's always that argument still 35 hp on viper and he's sitting on that hill oh took the first hit here and just getting away i think just killing some hp from winchester scout is something that i've seen for example the gau do there just straight off that you have five hp your opponent has 20 hp true and then they won't go for the rhino steel back do you think granted i think you and i could have a whole conversation on if we want a laming allowed in our 20s all together but with laming being a thing right do you think that they need to make a change on how much damage a rhino or board does against the scalp because viper's got what did he have 35 hp he only lost 10 hp and was able to steal 400 food well you you know the answer to the question interesting i think it's horrible for competitive esports to have such a high variance thing but yeah i i made a video about that one that was one of my best click youtube videos ever and the one with the highest download rate i've ever had so i know that a lot of people are heavily disagreeing with me there and to not start a fight let's just keep it at that and i at least believe that gaming is way too easy and it's not punished enough yeah i i would like to see that i i always say that maybe the board should be on the side of the back which we did for hidden cup but also i think if i had my way i think that scouts would receive more damage there's no way you should have that much hp on a scout after stealing something that important scouts are both kind of weak here as they're engaging in the middle and all viper's trying to do is prevent winchester from catching up on food he's just trying to be annoying here i doesn't want to eat any more hits though and register yeah even pushing him to the wrong direction so nilly do you want to hear uh interesting tidbit of information that i tested and learned the other day oh yes so you know how the majority of players the way they push deer or ostriches they just click right in front of the animal and then the animal runs forward and then they repeat that not really what they do but yeah go ahead well well okay you're probably gonna say they use uh follow and so i'd say maybe half the player base uses follow half the player base uses the click and follow overrides the click so if like you are if i'm trying to stop you from pushing in an ostrich and you click right in front of it so the ostrich is about to listen to you because you commanded that first and i use follow the follow overrides the click way of doing it which means that you can disrupt someone from uh from pushing their deer a bit easier that way does that make sense oh okay okay so both should just spam follow then yeah and i don't know what happens i didn't test i assume it's just the first person to the party uh gets to push the deer in but uh i saw a viper playing barrels or something and i noticed that viper was using follow and he kept disrupting barrels and borrowed three or four times couldn't get his deer to move and i went back and watched it and that was the difference so oh nice viper's gonna go scouts here i think exciting times and he's certainly got the food for it so i'm happy to see this as for binge he just does not have food underneath his tc and he is on the brink of losing the finals here viper needs one win of the next potential three and if viper is able to do that viper will be the king of the desert for champion 20 000 to the winner 10 000 to the second place player which isn't too shabby reed rhino ten sheep against one rhino six sheep and we see both players opening with scouts hmm how do we think this is gonna go nilly oh boy i mean not even that it's also as the farms expand with this type of a build even more of an advantage to viper because he doesn't have to drop off his food at uh his other buildings here as he goes for a barracks now interesting of course didn't have to make the barracks before the stable but i didn't think that he was even necessary yeah yeah i think that's what viper kind of learned over the time now that khmer delayed barracks could make lots of sense for them that village obviously will never die with the house next to it so that's just wasting hp here for vince is what i would think piper tries to go for the wall go for the house oh no no well oh now he runs to the house yeah i see what you're talking about oh hit him wait it died britain's op with scout rush nearly that's what we've learned so far this game anyways continue okay for a bit on the sloppy side the barracks a bit late and now we see the villagers have to fight again and i'm saying it again we shouldn't see villager loss but we just found one earlier yeah this is true good recovery from winchester i mean up against it from the early stages here and if this turns into a game where he can make archers you're always going to be liking his position but what i don't like is that he's got two idols on his wood line he only has seven on wood hasn't corrected that for quite some time and viper also i i just you know you've got to think he's got more opportunities to do damage right now as the briton player cannot hop into houses that is of course the case for viper with his khmer aries running out in 100 foot the viper still has endless amount of berries if he wanted to think about that one but obviously going into heavy farming his food economy is looking great and viper now scouts the villagers on gold question again is will he stay on scout or will he add some archers himself archers feels like the natural switch for both if there's going to be a lot of spearmen out i think the key here for viper is he has to prevent winchester from walling up this awesome map of his because with the direction winchester's going with these houses i could see vince that's an interesting range placement i actually would have made it to the right of the house but i could see vince just walling in his gold in his wood and viper doesn't really have that option and his face is really open here the gold especially there at the front i wouldn't mind seeing a defensive tower at the goal but we have not really seen the viper commit to that too much he will play it pretty similar to his hands game and we'll try to go for upgraded scouts as a defense yeah might go bald lines which is why he has two on gold whoop quick wall quick wall did you hear me say that the other day is that why you brought that up yeah yeah the sad thing i was so proud of that comment and only like two people left i was so sad i was laughing so hard that i couldn't type yeah well thank you nilly on facebook i saw you it's funny i saw you in chat and i was like i'm not sure if that's nearly if that's a newly imposter but i determined later that you were watching my horrible post damp gameplay i was for for an hour it was enjoyable until the third hour then i'm just like i wanted to die forging and bloodlines now and winchester also has quite a few scouts it feels like viper spearmen need to all be together to engage against that and winchester i think very ambitious with the way he's trying to wall this could be a villager down and more as viper arrives to the gold and will viper engage he'll have the hill here nearly he could engage against three spears and he does and spearman dying heavily here oh boy oh boy or boy has to pull the switches away from gold meanwhile those scouts are chilling on vince's side now taking the fight against spearman so poorly oh man and he doesn't have upgrades he doesn't get access to bloodlines and he's off of gold and he doesn't have many archers and vipers farming eco is insane only one to one with the eco kd but look at the worker efficiency last minute it's 58 for vince as viper gets another doink there on the farm perfect spot for khmer as well nearly they didn't have to switch into anything other than just their stable units they can continue to spam those farms viper is in the perfect position to win the finals here oh man and it just feels so anticlimactic that in the last game of this tournament potentially the lame was such a deciding factor here viper is playing it brilliantly after that yeah still think winchester has made some mistakes since then um but viper has just he takes advantages and then he takes another advantage and then he finishes you off and that's where we're at right now viper's thinking about castleage gets to the hill good upgrades gets the hits before the spears arrive runs away well done viper look at all those bodies there look at that he didn't lose or maybe he lost one scout yeah it's 41 trade or something really nice move with the hill spearmint not there does maybe have to worry about the archers but he's going to take the engagements and he knows he needs to keep this army away from his base because he doesn't have skirms yet he's on the way to castle h viper commits to that fight now ends up running away lost to scouts nearly but also killed archers so i think it's worth it oh let's see probably a second stable continues with the scout production not too many villagers on gold here i need something i think the defensive tower is needed he's going to add a house so he can hop into remember that game earlier where we said vince needs to go all in futile i think this is another one if he goes spear archer and scalp he could just force it so viper has all of his villagers inside of his houses but that's a lot to ask things though i think kimura are better in going light calf than hunts that wanted to go knights plus ca in that game i'm trying to do the math on this to see how many of these villagers can fit inside houses at all viper even pulls the bills attacks the spears and goes back to work that's cute he stalled scout production though like heavily he's still on five and he doesn't have any in queue what is this i'm surprised as well i think he should just go full scout light kev will clear this one up did he oh he's there i'm i'm surprised yeah he will kill a villager it will kill another villager and oh man it's just crazy vince sends all that army forward doesn't kill anything and then viper kills two villas just like that oh and village just fighting against archers that's not a thing that's not how age of players should work and viper was the khmer og man he played with khmer before they were good before the farming bonus he always toyed around with the khmer has some awesome videos out there with that and even before light gap comes in viper will be able to clear this army and vince is on the way to castle age but winchester will have no control he's not even walled yet nearly i think he'll just get overrun by by knights and scouts oh it feels like it well winchester will have a lot of what is that hidden barracks he's putting it out of the map winchester to be fair that could be trap spearman there's a two-time hole at the right side of the board yes i mean nearly to be fair the first archery range in blacksmith placement was also really weird the second archery range is in the back of his base he's got gaps everywhere he didn't even really really try and string any walls together so i i think like i called it after the byzantine japanese game winchester just has really dropped off a little bit since then maybe you know the pressure maybe exhaustion to be fair viper's never let him breathe in any of the games since that's what i wanted to say or maybe it's just facing the best stage of vampires player we've ever seen viper just off the back of winning the first age of empires 420 and everyone's like oh my god if you're spending time playing other games how are you going to perform and to be fair maybe there's some players you could you could say did underperform in this tourney because of their time on age of empires 4. but now viper's here and just like doing dances around winchester who killed leary who killed yo and who killed hera like it's the easiest game of his life this is crazy but still remember viper could have easily lost in the round of 32. that's true i think that woke him up a bit when he almost lost to say my name 2-1 right he was down 2-1 against say my name yes and a shaky game five or an intense game five yep that would have been one of the biggest upset of like the last five years honestly like we're losing in the round of 64. almost happened ever since then he's looked unbeatable but winchester's still alive in this game not in a great spot but viper also hasn't gone hugely offensive i'm still disappointed viper didn't make more scouts while he was on the way to feudal because i think if he did that he would have still a solid amount of food but he'd have had light calf with a bit more pressure on winchester also that's true in the in the genesis tournament in the round of 256 or something he he was basically dead as well and had a 50 minute game against symtom so you're saying the best place is like right when the tournament starts yeah yeah probably probably you just have to be so basically you have to be way worse than viper and then you have a chance is that that's how seating tends to work uh maybe maybe i can do it someday god scouts killing villagers on this tc for finch he does take out a scorpion but he's got no control here commerce scorpions so strong they've got eight range so they have the same range as these crossbows all really nice oh those crossbows are clumped up and we have an 11 villager elite but the viper was relatively late with dropping his deceased second and third one flying in though yes it's true also good micro from viper a good micro from vince to finish off the scorpions piper took out the stable so vince couldn't make any knights but vince says i don't need knights i just use my crossbows who cares about that the army count tells me manchester has a chance here especially because viper's just tossed away a few scorpions no repair villager and no real mass of knights he kind of dropped his game plan of trying to use mobility once he lost those two scouts and just tried to force the issue but 31 military for vince with britain's this is doable for finchester woohoo but amivario is going to be nice for the wi-fi he goes for elephant scorpion elephant scorpion i mean it's just so expensive nilly he does have three tcs as well this is where vince has to win uh he has to take good engagements now if if he takes a poor engagement and then hopes for a good engagement yeah man out of position thirty one oh no before pokemon rip and now the crossbows are going to run into another scorpion this is this is so bad for finch viper's just going to have so many villagers so many elephants at this rate well nearly the elephants run in right to winchester's eco viper also has knights in the back convinced the zico that could be the killer blow i was wondering where those nights went the army from vince has done no damage offensively finch's economy is destroyed over 20 village elite i think vince is trying to make something happen with that last army more we'll find some villager kills himself most of the pikemen will die though but basically losing is starting to see yeah i'm starting tc and winchester who made it here against all odds he was the underdog against many of the big names he beat as he was here today he says gg congrats and viper man he deserves it he deserves it i went into today thinking there's no world in which viper loses and he proved that nearly he's better in all situations of the game whether it's micro macro or understanding awkward civ matchups yeah comebacks from viper but also you know shout out to winchester because winchester proved us all wrong and made it here and i think he was probably a worthy opponent for viper in the finals absolutely great great performance honestly super entertaining games as well and yeah i think winchester against viper was more entertaining than the jordan against viper sets so i'm super happy that this was our grand final yeah i mean i think it was also more entertaining than the winchester vs leery set because finchester smacked leary and then viper smack jordan i think for winchester he's still got to be so pleased with himself right even making it to the semis and losing i think he would have been pleased because that was his biggest achievement ever uh to get that deep into a big age of empires to event but after five or six years of just hammering away 2021 has been his year he performed really well to get into hidden cups perform well in red bull wallows there's a few other events that he did well into and then making it to the finals against viper and getting two wins off him is not too bad for him so he in my eyes is clearly the top in the top ten right now nearly which i might not have said at the tail end of 2019 or 2020. well he went into this tournament as seat number 10. yeah okay relatively fitting and ah could make a good argument here to put him into the top eight even i mean he did beat three players who many have in their top five just saying he beat hera yeah he beat yo and he beat leary and they lost the viper so we won't jump to any conclusions on that but i'm happy for finchester i'm also very happy to see viper back on top he deserved it um neely thanks for casting i think we're going to hop in and both try and listen to the interview and then maybe uh we could touch base after that and then we can uh call the day sounds great to me all right chad one sec uh bear with me here i gotta get out of the game load up the stream we're gonna see if there is a interview still going on on memstream we're going to listen in on that see if vipre has any insight and then i do want to talk to you guys and thank you guys like kilpatrick and seth and sean and axe thank you guys for the support but one moment um instead of bringing viper in for an additional interview which would just be exhausting for him we're going to listen in uh once this begins it looks like we have it together let's talk about some of the games you've just played viper i want to ask in particular about game number four just colossal pressure came across uh the map towards you throughout that entire game how do you deal with it what do you do to prevail under such enormous pressure you know when other players would would throw these games away under the amount of pressure that's put on you somehow pull through what's the secret i'm guessing we're talking about lithuania's incas so i don't know i i felt like he was in a very good spot but i still felt like if i could get him get some gun power out i could potentially pull it back but yeah i mean it's just like in those situations if you make one crucial mistake or even like small errors you're just dead so you have to decision making has to be like spot on uh if something like that happens and i think i made the correct decisions i think he was maybe a little bit sloppy with some of his units uh also the fact i sniped four monks with my three or four months with my bomber cannons which could have been potential game turner frame yeah that was huge yeah just all these small things uh slowly added up for me but it was a very tough game the blink 102 approach all the small things ma'am you've got anything here i mean that game was insane in my opinion the lithuanians game and also when the series are that close viper those kind of moments that is look like you are a complete corner just snipe all the monks it's multitask like this can can change the the series as a whole i mean it depends on the mindset of mentality of people right some people might get more flustered by things happening in games uh but i feel like winchester is a guy with a very strong mentality so i don't think maybe he was disappointed that he lost that game but i don't think it uh like bothered him for the rest of the series okay oh god i'm sorry i wanted to say all the time yeah i wanted sorry bye for sorry sorry my friend i wanted to say such a troller that you should see vince is the reaction after lucy did game and maybe you will change your mind his reaction in the camera because he felt that he had that game with incas because actually his position was insane yeah it makes sense right yeah yeah well don't go babysitter or maybe i just wanted to zoom out a little bit and talk about the tournament more in general um we've seen a couple of things throughout this tournament particularly the uh the two militia rush which has become sort of very fashionable uh throughout king of the desert for what are your thoughts on this what's the best way i guess to implement it and also to defend against it so i knew vengeance was very fond of that opening i asked my teammates as well today like what they think are the best ways to deal with that just to counter it by doing the same or how to react and i got a different answer pretty much from everyone so it was a it's definitely a very new thing still but in the end it's it's a weekend rush that kind of accomplishes the same but yeah i think it's a it's a nice approach to just by a little bit of time and get some like presence i want oh viper to open that package yourself anything else well i just wanted to to ask you as a whole like maybe i'm going to too far i just wanted to congratulate you i really think that i don't know what you think today i don't remember a mistake at all or a big mistake by your gameplay like but you almost didn't get a whole or a bad decision when you lost it because simple your opponent played a little bit better in that game i don't know if you feel that this can be one of your sharper gameplays in ever because i got that feeling to be honest i would say there definitely were a couple of mistakes in there i think life were made played jordan was like more flawless in terms of execution compared to today but i think my decision making today as well was kind of spot on that's fair yeah i'm very happy with my performance overall but i mean at the same time it's it's somewhat some of this is lucky as well sometimes you pick a good match up by by chance right there is a little bit of fortunate uh circumstances now and then as well and then also some saves shine on different maps like brigands for example if you get a really good map then they are great if you get a bad map they're not that great so it's like a little bit of luck involved as well here but in the end yeah i'm obviously super happy with winning nice interview from viper there nice interview he's like the thing about viper is he uh is incredibly humble humble in victory and humble in defeat but for a guy who destroyed the scene for four or five maybe six straight years until 2020 happened and he had a quote-unquote off-year uh you know he he certainly has got a good head on his shoulders um ggs uh thanks thanks to mem for hosting thanks to everyone involved with casting with me thanks to all the viewers who showed up and uh have enjoyed the casting i hope my casting was solid for you all um i obviously love the cast age of empires too i love to cast events we like to do our side content like the legends and community games but for the big ones um it just meant a lot to have you guys here today i don't i don't know i have to look back but i think we had a viewer record on the new platform which means a lot so thank you thank you thank you everybody um especially you guys you know for for making the switch to the new platform and being here it definitely means a lot to me um as for a lot of people immediately are like more tornies more tornies more tornies as for more tourneys i'm gonna make a video and probably upload it around christmas time on kind of what i expect the future of aoe2 esports to look like because it should be a rather interesting year 2022 there will be age of empires events but if you remember 2019 and 2020 was like literally non-stop events overlapping events all the time and i think aoe4 will have some effect on that but i know there's going to be events in the new year i can't tell you in that video but i'll just kind of talk through what i expect that because i know you i don't want you guys to think there's going to be no age of empires 2 events no things for me to cast i will cast aoe4 from time to time but i'm mainly going to stick with aoe 2 because i love av2 that's just honestly how it goes i love av2 you

Channel: T90Official - Age Of Empires 2

Views: 150,467

Keywords: Twitch, Games, Game, Age, of, Empires, Two, Definitive, Edition, AoE, AoE2, AoE2DE, AoE2HD, HD, DE, Age of Empires II, II, Facebook, facebook, face, book, Face, Book, FaceBook, game, games, gaming, Age2, Age4, Age of Empires IV, IV, Four, AoE 2, AoE 4, KotD, KotD4, king, the, desert, dessert, vinchester, vinch, vinchest, theviper, viper

Id: CgIAgFXa3e0

Length: 215min 32sec (12932 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 14 2021