Islam vs Christianity Debate: The Choice | Asrar Rashid vs Christians

this evening we are going to be hearing from three people although there are more stuff on the stage but not everybody will be speaking and I will shortly introduce our speakers I'm firstly just going to set out some basic house rules which I hope that the speakers and our audience will all abide by we're in an academic institution one of the finest in the country we want this debate to take place with good academic decorum so firstly advice for the speakers to be respectful in your exchanges not anticipating any aggression but if we do get to a point where speakers are getting abusive towards each other we will have to stop the debate I'm also going to request that our audience do not heckle when either side is making their statements nor in anybody else's questions if audience members are heckling or being aggressive or abusive in any way towards each other or towards the speakers we will unfortunately ask for you to leave we do have colleagues who are undertaking security duties this evening we are hoping we won't have to call on them I know the last debate that we held here we didn't need to and I'm sure we won't need their services this evening but it's good that they are here keeping all of us safe the format for the debate is very simple they'll be opening statements from both sides lasting 30 minutes each Caleb will be starting and then chef Estrada will follow there will then be a 20-minute rebuttal from each speaker this will then be followed by a further ten minute Roberto before we open it up to the floor for questions so it's quite a lengthy debate it's going to be an epic but I hope you bear with us so our speakers this evening firstly Caleb corner loop I hope I said that correctly Connolly street preacher passionate about spreading the word of the gospel from originally from Australia but living now here in the UK and made some headlines while she was in Australia for his campaign for street preaching of the Bible and we're happy that you are here this evening he will be delivering the opening statement and then after that the further statements will be delivered by how to in touch who's a director of DCC our ministries that's defend christ critique Islam she studied apologetics and the Oxford Centre for Christian apologetics in Oxford for those of you who are unaware Christian apologetics is a branch of Christian theology that defends Christianity against objections and she may want to say more about that when she has a time to do so chef as far as many of you will be aware looking at this audience needs no introduction he's a prominent Islamic scholar and theologian he studied here in the UK as well as abroad in Syria and he currently resides in his hometown of Birmingham he takes a keen interest in matters of belief and Creed contemporary geopolitical issues as well as the classical Islamic understanding of the end of times and I know that's a particular interest of him of his in in recent times he's a seasoned debater he's been here before last year debates with coyote yes the atheist debate which was very popular and I'm sure today's will be as equally popular and we looking forward to hearing from him today I think that sorts all the introductions and the house rules so without further ado for the first half an hour I'm going to ask Caleb to deliver his opening statement on Islam and Christianity the choice well good evening everybody and thank you for coming out to this debate I want to give a special thank you to Israel Russia for agreeing to debate with me tonight he was very hospitable he invited me around his home in Birmingham took me out for dinner and so I just want to thank him for that and thank everyone for coming tonight in my opening statement I'm going to begin by giving you a definition of the Trinity then I'm going to talk a little bit about the reliability of the New Testament the Quran and the hadith and then I'm going to begin to discuss Muhammad and his character as a prophet now when I discuss Muhammad I want you to know that it is not my intention to offend anyone or to insult anyone's beliefs my intention is just to discuss this in the context of debate that's the only context that I'm bringing this up in and I'm expecting strong arguments against me so I'm going to bring the strongest arguments I can within this short period of time but with that they said let me begin with the definition of the Trinity now both Muslims and Christians believe that there is only one God but we disagree in our concepts of that one God as a Christian I believe in the biblical teaching of the Trinity now if you're a Muslim you're probably wondering how we're going to give an explanation or a definition of the Trinity so that's why I've decided to start here we believe that God is one being but three persons now you might ask what is the difference between a being and a person a being is that quality about you that makes you what you are I am a human being and everybody here in this room here tonight are human beings but a person is that quality about you that makes you who you are so we say that so for example I am Caleb Quanah Liu I'm a nice caring compassionate person but what I am that is a human being is different to Who I am that is Caleb coronally so we say God is one being but three persons now that is not a contradiction first to say that God was one being got three beings that would be a contradiction if I was to say God was one person but three persons that would be a contradiction but we say God is one being but three persons it is a mystery but it is not a contradiction now Jesus actually mentions this in the book of Matthew chapter 28 verses 19 and 20 Jesus is speaking to his disciples after his resurrection and he says this therefore go and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name Cingular of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit so we see here that Jesus combines the three persons under the one name because he sees all three persons as sharing that one divine name what do we think about the person of Jesus Christ we believe that Jesus is the eternal uncreated Word of God that has existed from all eternity yet at a certain point of time he came to us and took on flesh and dwelt among us now when we say Jesus took on flesh and became a man we do not believe that he ceased to be God rather we believe that he took on a human nature in addition to his divine nature so that he had two natures one divine and one human this shouldn't be difficult for Muslims to understand because the Orthodox Muslim view of the Quran is that the Quran is the eternal uncreated Word of God and yet came down to us through Muhammad and can be held in your hand in the form of a book so in the same way that Muslims believe the Quran is eternal and uncreated we believe that Jesus is eternal and uncreated the uncreated Word of God and in the same way the Quran has come down in the form of a book we believe Jesus came down in the form of a man but having said all that why should you be a Christian and not a Muslim both Muslims and Christians believe that Jesus was a prophet we would have to agree both Muslims and Christians that Jesus was a prophet and the remote reliable source of information about the life and teaching of Jesus is the New Testament documents we have over five thousand eight hundred and fifty clue handwritten copies of the New Testament part of it is part of these copies are full copies part of them are just fragmented we have an additional ten thousand in Latin and an additional ten thousand in languages such as Syria and Aramaic now it's impossible to go through every book of the Bible the New Testament to prove its authenticity and it's impossible to go through every manuscript for a particular book of the Bible so I want to just look at two manuscripts of the Gospel of John P 52 is housed in john rylands library about 10 minutes walk from here it's about the size of a credit card and it is dated to 125 ad that is 35 years from when the original Gospel of John or Gospel according to John was written e now it's only a fragment so it doesn't prove the whole gospel but we have P 66 which is dated between 150 and 200 ad which contains almost the entire Gospel of John that's between fifty or sixty and a hundred and ten years from the original now furthermore we have with the witness of the Church Fathers sent Irenaeus one of the early church fathers who was executed for his faith by being beheaded tells us that John wrote the Gospel of John now sin Irenaeus gets his information from sent Polycarp so Polycarp gets his information from the Apostle John himself because he was one of the Apostle John's own disciples how do we know these people are telling the truth well as I said sin Irenaeus was executed for his faith and Polycarp was burned alive and he didn't quite die so they fed him while he was still alive two wild animals in the Coliseum so we have a very close connection between the Apostle John then Polycarp and sent Irenaeus and since these people were martyrs who died for their faith it's very hard to believe that they would be to us about what they tell us furthermore scent Irenaeus tells us that all the churches in all the world believed in the four gospel accounts of Matthew Mark Luke and John they all believed that the Apostle Paul was an apostle of Christ and they all believed that he helped the Apostle Peter established the church in Rome now in addition to the manuscripts that we have of the New Testament we also have the writings of the early church fathers we can construct the entire New Testament from just the writings of the early church fathers within the first 300 years but why should we believe the early church fathers well as I was saying about Polycarp and sent Irenaeus the early church suffered almost 300 years of heavy persecution that would really make the persecution under isis look like it was being done by a bunch of choir boys the early Christians were crucified beheaded they were flogged to death and when they were flogged to death you would see their inner organs of their body and you would see the entrails of their body they were fed to wild animals burned alive and torn apart by horses limb by limb attached to separate horses and their bodies ripped apart and the bishops were always the first ones to go for example Cindy Rheneas when he took on his bishopric the bishop before him had just been martyred himself so it was a very dangerous thing to be a Christian and there was no money in it that is for sure but oftentimes some Muslims try to argue that we don't have the originals and therefore the ones we have must be corrupted but it's worth noting that we do not have the original Koran either we do not have the parchments that were written down on during the life of Muhammad we do not have Abu Bakr's copy at all we have none of the copies that were done under oath one we have no Quranic manuscripts at all from the 7th century which is the century that Muhammad died the earliest Quranic manuscripts we have are from the 8th and 9th centuries now although the animal heart of the Sunna manuscript dates to the 6th century the text itself is dated to 7 between 710 instead fifteen ad that 78 to 83 years after Mohammed died and the Sun a manuscript as well that is dated to that time contains only 63 verses out of six thousand two hundred and thirty six verses of the Koran but what's even more staggering is the oldest copy of sati Bukhari the oldest copy of sahih bukhari is dated to 1000 AD both paleo graphically and chemically that's three hundred and sixty-eight years after Muhammad died in fact there is no hadith that dates earlier than 1000 AD and this hadith this manuscript of staple carry contains only three books the book of taxes the book of fasting and the book of pilgrimage and only the book of taxes is complete the next manuscript of sahih bukhari is dated to 1150 ad that's over 500 years after Muhammad died sometimes Muslims like to bring up the variants or Bible critics like to bring up the variants within the New Testament when Sahib will carry sorry when Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim and other Imams collected the hadees muslims know that they sorted through hundreds of thousands of hadith stories that were being circulated about Muhammad within 200 years of his lifetime the number can go up into over a million so if we talk about variants we've got a big problem when it comes to the hadith so I would argue that if you think sample parry is reliable then you should have no problems accepting the reliability of the New Testament that is the first reason why I think that you should be a Christian the second reason is that the central message of the Christian faith was prophesied in the Jewish Scriptures and remains there even to this day there is many prophecies that I could look at in the Jewish Scriptures but I want to look at one in particular and that is in Isaiah chapter 53 and this was written 700 years before Jesus was born and we have copies of it that date between 150 to 300 years before Jesus was born so this was written well in advance so Isaiah 53 and I want to just read you two verses you can read the chapter in your own time if you like verses 4 to 6 this is what it says surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering yet we considered him punished by God stricken by him and afflicted but he was pierced for our transgressions he was crushed for our iniquities the punishment that brought us peace that his peace with God was on him and by his wounds we are healed we all like sheep have gone astray each of us have turned to our own way and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all the passage goes on to say that he was cut off out of the land of the living and was buried but God saw the travail of his soul and brought into life and prolong his days this is a very clear prophecy of somebody bearing the sins of the people of Israel of all of his people and it says the iniquity of us all and suffering in their place for their sin and bringing peace between them and God through his suffering Jesus interestingly applied this prophecy to himself in the Gospel of Luke chapter 24 verses 46 and onwards and there's many places in the Gospels I could read you but let me read you this one this is again after the resurrection of Jesus it says this then he referring to Jesus open their minds so that they could understand the scriptures he told them this is what is written the Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations beginning at Jerusalem you are witnesses of these things so here we have Jesus in the gospel applying this kind of prophecy to himself saying that the Messiah must suffer for stings just as the gospel says now this is also confirmed in the historical records of the Roman Empire the first century AD there was a man named Tacitus who was the proconsul of Rome in his time very high position second only to the Emperor and he records the death of Jesus in the annals of Imperial Rome saying that Jesus was killed under Pontius Pilate with the extreme death penalty so the Christian faith is rooted in history in prophecy and in reliable records such as the Gospels having said that why do I think that you should not be a Muslim first of all the Koran fails to engage meaningfully with the Christian concept of the Trinity if you're a Christian and there's not many Christians in the room here tonight but when I first began reading the Koran the first thing I noticed is that the author of the Quran didn't seem to understand what the Trinity was and every time it tried to attack the Trinity it was attacking a straw man argument for example it's speaks of the Trinity as the father Mary and the son it speaks of the Trinity as three separate gods you see so the author of the Quran doesn't seem to understand what the Trinity is in fact Muslims today are far better at their attempts to combat the Trinity than what the author of the Quran was when it was written in Muhammad's times the second reason why you should not be a Muslim is because Muhammad is not mentioned in the Torah or sorry so the second reason why you should not be a Muslim is because the Muhammad is not mentioned in the Torah or the gospel why is this important in surah chapter 7 verse 157 we read this those who follow the messenger the prophet who can neither read nor write ie Muhammad whom they find written with them in the Torah and the gospel with them you see this Sura is saying that you can find Muhammad mentioned in the Torah and the gospel that was with the Jews and Christians at the time of Muhammad now we have at least 85 tourists and manuscripts from before 150 to 300 years before Jesus was born led by Muhammad and yet there is no mention England of Muhammad whatsoever the third reason why I think you should not be a Muslim is because Muhammad was not a good example to follow now again I want to stress that it is not my intention to offend anyone I'm expecting strong arguments against me and so I'm gonna bring some strong arguments here it says in surah chapter 33 verse 21 indeed and The Messenger of Allah Muhammad you have a good example to follow and I'm going to bring up the issue of Aisha insane bukhari hadith number 534 we read this narrated by Aisha that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated he consummated his marriage with her when she was nine years old Hashem said I have been informed that Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years until his death now Mohammed died at 61 years of age which means that when he married are you sure at the age of six he was 52 and when he consummated the marriage he was 55 and she was nine now hands up how many people would give away their daughter and on your daughter to a 55 year old man do we have any people 55 year our years I hold an older here that we can you know connect with you I don't think we would seriously do that I don't think we would seriously do that secondly there is good reason to believe that are you sure was prepubescent when the marriage was consummated in sahih bukhari hadith number six month three yo we read this and this is before the marriage narrated again by Aisha I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet and my girlfriend's also used to play with me when Allah's messenger used to enter my dwelling place they used to hide themselves so these were little girls that were hired this Commission he was coming but the Prophet would call them to join in to play with me then it says this the playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden was allowed for Aisha at that time as she was a little girl not yet reached the age of puberty now then we've read in sake muslim hadith number three three oh nine narrated again by Ayesha Ayesha Allah be pleased with her reported that others apostle married her when she was seven and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine and her dolls were with her so the previous of this session was allowed to play the dolls because she was prepubescent and here we say it says in this sake I did that she was also taking her dolls with her when her marriage was consummated MRA and I've never read any hadith which would suggest that she was not prepubescent and this is very strong evidence to suggest that she was indeed prepubescent when she was married therefore Mohammed is not a good example to follow and the Quran is false there are many other had discs that talk about this by the way the second reason why Mohammed is not a good example to follow is because Mohammed married his adopted sons wife there's a story in the history of our tabary volume 8 pages 2 & 3 in the English translation when Muhammad went and visited his adopted son is a Eid II bin Mohammad Sayeed son of Mohammed and Syed wasn't home but his wife was home and when she got up to answer the door al tabary tells us that Mohammed was aroused by her and he turned away and he said glory be to God glory be to God glory be to God now as I need later found out about this and he offered his wife to Muhammad and said he would divorce her initially Muhammad didn't accept them and so then zai ye he couldn't look at his wife this is in our time this is what me this is our cavalry that says this he couldn't look at his wife the same anymore and he divorced her and then Mohammed received a revelation permitting him to marry his adopted son's wife and that is in the Quran and the saddest part of this story is that because the Arabs considered that it was an act of incest at the time mohamad then received another revelation which is in the Quran canceling and making void all adoption and even to this day Muslims cannot adopt a child and cannot pass their name on to them so for this reason I would argue again that Mohammed is not of good character is not a person we should follow and the Quran is false second another reason why you should not be a Muslim is that Mohammed did not respect the institution of marriage in sahih bukhari hadith number five one one eight we read this while we were in the army others messenger came to us and said you have been allowed to do the mutter marriage so do it and what a marriage is marriage for lust it's temporary marriage and in the very next idea so he will carry five one one nine it says that this was a marriage marriage velocipede last as little as three days three days now what is the point of having the institution of marriage if it will only last for three days this is not the kind of thing that messengers from God should be advocating therefore Mohammed is not a good example and the Quran is false now this last one is the last one about marriage is in sable curry and if number three three seven one now Mohammed at this point his armies were out they were fighting their enemies and his soldiers were away from their wives and it says in this hadith when you read it that they were suffering from being away from their wives and so they were sleeping with their captive slave women and they wanted to sell the slave women after sleeping with them and so they were withdrawing before you know what so that they wouldn't get them pregnant and then one of them went to Mohammed and said do we even need to do this and Muhammad said they didn't need to do it for whoever will be born will be born so Mohammed and you cannot say this is consenting sex because they were still planning on selling them read the hadith for yourself I was still planning on selling them so they had had intercourse with them but let me just say quickly it is not my intention to insult anyone I think the Muslim community here is nothing like this very friendly I'm hospitable people and so it is not a reflection of how I think about you this is just an academic debate about Mohammed the last and final reason why I would reject Muhammad as a prophet is because Muhammad's death proves that he fabricated the Quran in surah 69 verses 44 to 47 we read this and if he Muhammad had forged the saying concerning us Allah we surely would have seized him by his right hand or with power and might and then certainly would have cut off his life artery his aorta and none of you could withhold us from punishing him now may I suggest this is exactly how Muhammad died after Muhammad had attacked a Jewish town a woman who had become a widow as a result of the battle brought a meal from Muhammad found out what his favorite meal was and poisoned it Muhammad Eider and was poisoned and as he was dying he says this in sahih bukhari volume 5 book 59 hadith number 7 1 3 narrated by Aisha again the prophet in his armor in which he stopped in which she died used to say o Aisha I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Kaiba and at this time I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison Muhammad died in the exact way he said he would die if he was fabricating the Quran now this wasn't a quick death this was actually a long slow painful death which lasted three years now some Muslims try to argue that the meaning of the word a water in the Quran he said that the word originally translated is different to the one in the idea and this is true but the translate both words mean exactly the same thing the translation I'm reading from is the motion can translation his translation of the Quran is authorized by the University of Medina and the hadith is also translated by motion not only that but motion Khan is actually a has a degree in medicine and surgery and he worked for the Ministry of Health in Saudi Arabia so he knows what the aorta is they order is the vein that pumps blood from the heart to the rest of the body and Mohammed died by that poison cutting through his aorta and causing internal bleeding I want to close just by talking a little bit about sin there is a hadith which i think is very good it's in say Bukhari had this number six 3:08 and it says this a believer sees his sins as if he was sitting under a mountain he is afraid it may fall on him whereas a wicked person considers his sins as flies passing over his nose and he just drives them away like this my question to you is how do you view your personal sin in your life do you view it as a mountain that is going to come down upon you or do you view your sin as a flyer as flies around your nose to wave away when people say that can't God just forgive me there's little things and big things this is looking at your sin as though it's just flies buzzing around your nose that you can brush away Christians view sin as though it was a mountain about to fall down upon them and that is why we look to Jesus Christ for salvation Jesus Christ and his substitutionary death who when he voluntarily took our place and took our suffering his death is the only way that we can find forgiveness for our sins so my time got three minutes I want to ask you just quickly if we were to have an election for a prime minister between Jesus and the honey and their life was their manifesto who would you vote for would you vote for Jesus or would you vote for Muhammad as a Christian I don't need to vote for Muhammad I would vote for Jesus 100% Jesus is the perfect example of holiness Jesus is the perfect example of love Jesus is the perfect example of compassion and Jesus is the perfect example of mercy and is through Jesus alone that we can find salvation so I want to just thank you I'm now going to ask chef astrov to give his opening statement again he's not ashamed if you notice in the presentation not a single verse of the Quran was quoted individual my interlocutor went straight on to the hadith that's like me not quoting the Bible to Christians and moving on to extra religious relate richer because hadith is not above criticism even sahih bukhari there is like you have criticism of Bible criticism there is a critical method of reading hadith literature and when I had this report is solitary in its nature the text can be criticized by scholars even though they say sorry what they mean by Sahih is that the overall work is Sahib individual schools have rejected solitary reports solitary reports means one person comes along and says this occurred a scholar can come along and criticized that narrator and say that this narration is incorrect this is found throughout the Islamic works fertile valley and other works but you notice child marriage is prohibited in the Quran but that was not quoted child Mallett marriage is prohibited in the Quran so when Muslims read a hadith which contradicts the Quran they can reject the hadith that they do not reject the Quran secondly that would be Hadees relating to the marriage of Aisha there was a method of the Arabs that when they would pass into their teen years they would mention their age through the numbers they would say for instance I was seven years old and this half Buhari as well one of the companions he says I would lead my tribe when I was seven years old I would leave them in the prayer every Muslim knows that a seven year old is not permitted to lead the prayer what that companion meant he was 17 years old and this is also a Jewish habit also so many of the scholars when they read that hadith of aisha radi low honor they say that this because i was cognizant of what was occurring she's reporting the event herself a six-year-old doesn't have cognizance of what is occurring so they state that the age was in her teen years many of them have said that but even if someone does not acknowledge that the age of consent changes from anthropologically from time to time you come from Australia where you killed off the Aboriginal people the Aboriginal people had their own culture and way of doing things when the white christian went there they killed off the aboriginal people but Aboriginal people they had their own culture in the Arab world 9 was the age of consent meaning a woman a girl was considered a woman for consummation of marriage at the age of 9 in Yemen the law was only changed recently so anthropologist will tell you that you do not judge a culture with your modern outlook on a previous ancient culture this is of course even the Christian apologetics and criticism of the marriage to Irish our Dalarna was only brought up after the 1900s no Christian ever brought up the marriage of Aisha prior to the 1900s why because the standards had changed cultures change a woman was no longer considered a woman at the age of 9 because of mental maturity and therefore the low change with time so when Christians bring up the marriage of ice and they failed for instance in the Catholic Encyclopedia of course being an Avenger in Vangelis you will deny the Catholic interpretation they mentioned Mary was only 12 years old at the time but you can easily reject that but you went straight from the Quran to the hadith now there is a reason for that Hadees has categories there are Hadees which are accepted there are Hadees which are not accepted and there are hadith which may be classified as aji but the text goes through criticism scholarly criticism scholars can come along and critique the actual text of the hadith it was good I will go back on to some of your points what I wanted to present first was that some of the things that you mentioned were relevant to what I wanted to mention for instance cytostatic unity which is with regard to Trinity you mentioned being in person I willing in fact qualify your statement for you what you mean to say God is one entity with various attributes this is what you intend to say but you use the word being a person the correct term would be entity and quality meaning God is one entity with three qualities is that God the God of the Old Testament or not meaning Jesus is the quality of God you mentioned the Quran being the Word of God what that entails is that God has a divine attribute known as Quran speech but the the Quran that we have revealed to a signifies that divine speech for instance if I write down the word Allah on a piece of paper and you read that the word Allah this written word signifies the name of God the revealed Quran that we have signifies the divine attribute of God it doesn't mean that God's divine activity transmuted into flesh onto arrow into paper unto Health it means that the written word and the spoken word alludes and signifies to the Word of God this is the meaning of the divine speech of Allah so with regard to Jesus being a quality of God that descended and became God in the flesh this same God that you mentioned with your reasoning we should reject the Bible also because in the Old Testament and I will go onto the web verses in the New Testament which mentioned killing also it's not without any wonder that you're soldiers of Christ here means since when did Jesus have soldiers here you have in for instance first Samuel 15 you have where Samuel is commanded what you said Samuel said to Saul I am the meaning this is divine revelation I am the one the Lord the the Lord meaning the same entity that you believe Jesus is an attribute of sent to anoint you king over his people his people Israel so listen now to the message from the Lord this is what the Lord Almighty says I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel no wonder today we have the IDF carrying out acts there today in occupied Palestine listen to what type of things the god of the Old Testament which is the same entity as Christ according to your reasoning which states say I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they Rea like them as they came up from Egypt now go attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them do not spare them put to death men and women children and infants cattle and sheep camels and donkeys they didn't even spare the donkeys this is the God of the Old Testament so by your reasoning and logic we should totally discard the Old Testament first but by logic and reasoning we should also discard the New Testament because according to you Jesus is one of the attributes of God as the word you use the person one of the persons of one being they are one being but he is one of the persons why didn't Jesus object to the father and say this is unjust and secondly how do you even define that lo is evil you go to Euthyphro dilemma here how do you define what is evil is evil defined by the scripture or is evil defined and I guarantee these questions will not be answered adequately is evil defined by the mind or is evil defined by the culture or is evil defined by the scripture which one do you resort to how do you actually define evil so when you say Jesus and the god of the Old Testament one person this would bring me to my first question which is is Jesus the god of the Old Testament or a different gun but you've answered that you said they are one entity the terms you use is one being different persons so then therefore why didn't Jesus object to this second question was where is the gospel of Jesus in his own tongue Aramaic surprisingly you mentioned manuscripts in Aramaic Jesus spoke Aramaic in the Bible we only find a few in the New Testament we only find a few statements of alloy alloy Lema sabachthani why is this retain what they did in fact the canonization of the Bible occurred 300 years later with the Quran you mentioned the authenticity of the transmission of the Quran in our smiles time we make use the tender resection of earth man we can say 18 years after the Prophet if we accept your argument that was man was the one who canonized the Quran 18 years after the passing way of the Prophet but you mention physical copies physical copies you will know every year the Muslims clip rate there are we when they pray Terraria what do they do they recite the entire Quran this has been occurring in Mecca for over 1400 years in fact nearly nearly fourteen hundred and twenty years entire Quran is recited every year by memory there are people in this auditorium that if the Quran was burnt and finished they could recite the entire Quran from their heart not a single Christian to this day has memorized the entire Bible even the New Testament in fact not even meaning you can never have someone leading the prayer and reciting the entire New Testament so the Quran was memorized from it's very revelation hundred and ten thousand companions had memorized parts of the Quran or the entire Quran and who were mentioned by the Prophet as mastering the Quran they had mastered the Quran and they taught it to thousands so even if the manuscripts were dust which they weren't by the way the rear there is in Tashkent in Russia a manuscript described to us man what are the allowed I'll I know so with the Bible on the other hand Jesus spoke Aramaic what they did is that you mentioned the Apostle John and the chain of narration back to John biblical scholars acknowledged that John did not even write the Testament that we have the Gospel of John this Gospel of John was not written by the Apostle John the author is someone else you can check your own Scofield or any other commentaries on the Bible you'll find that John did not even write those Bibles but when they were written they were written in the Hellenistic Greek or Roman culture at the time in order to satisfy the Greco appetites polytheism Jesus was transmuted into a demigod which was not the original belief of Jesus himself Muslims believe in the original Aramaic by the gospel of Jesus that Jesus spoke in the Aramaic language someone may say what's so important about that language if you translate a statement from Aramaic to Greek from Greek to Latin from Latin to English the statement will lose its nuance the statement will lose its real input and this is what happens with the Bible if it is translated of the Quran the Quran was revealed in Arabic if you translate the quran from arabic to persian from persian to although from it will do to english you lose the original meanings and this is what occurred the canonization had had 300 years after apocryphal texts were rejected and when Constantine he adopted the Christian Creed and Constantine was the one who did the canonization of the Bible Constantine was the founder of the Catholic Church that you hate and despise so much they that Council of Nicaea meaning that the church was founded in Rome this is what I mean from that chain of narration that the modern Catholic Church claims its roots back to Constantine that canonization occurred at that time and the apocryphal texts were rejected the canonization occurred 300 years later but the Quran you mentioned the transmission of the Quran some ridiculous things some people bring up they say the quran has variants because of the para earth this of course would work on an ignorant audience but what the quran art entail is different pronunciations of the same word for instance you say Mele Chioma Dean you say Maliki or maybe what behead what Doha just different pronunciation there's no variance there on because they the agreed upon Quran occurred in the time of the Companions of the Prophet peace be upon him so if we use your reasoning regarding B and there are other differences also aside from memorization there is mass transmission of the Quran thousands of people have narrated it by memory in each generation and likewise the language it written in its original language the Bible the gospel of Jesus is not time today meaning you read through the four Gospels of the authors of the Gospels you'll find Jesus went and preached the gospel what gospel was Jesus preaching this gospel that was written in Aramaic is the gospel that is intended in the Quran that this in G is the real engine up these meaning you find Luke and Matthew copy from mark they copy from mark the work of Mark was written first then Matthew and Luke copy from him and what do we mean by variants variants someone will say the quran has variants some one person who came this is a part of the quran of that is a part of the quran but today you will not find a single muslim saying that this verse should be taken out of the quran and they'd remove the verse from the quran and then add a verse back into the quran but you will find this with biblical scholarship for instance you all know so when many of you know regarding the Revised Standard Version how mark the verses in mark were removed and then they were added back because they said the manuscripts are not reliable that doesn't work with Islam if you find manuscripts that contradict the memorization we rely on the memorization first because any Tom Dick and Harry can come and write something place that away in in the soil a thousand years later someone open it and say oh this contradicts the Quran but if thousands of people have memorized the Quran from generation to generation to generation whatever piece of paper we may find that contradicts that will be reject it because the memorization has been transmitted from generation to generation so the third thing that I wanted to mention to you if who has the right to abrogate the law of after Jesus had not abrogated the law if Jesus had not abrogated the law what right was there Paul who sold to to abrogate the law the law was fulfilled by Jesus and Muslims accept this Jesus accepted wholeheartedly the law of the Old Testament but Jesus came to teach the Jews the spirituality and when he was asked to regarding the Gentiles what did he say why should I give give the bread - what - the dots you refer to the gentiles as dogs Jesus according to the New Testament Muslims when they read this they do not ascribe that to Jesus we have a different methodology if there is something wrong ascribed to Jesus we reject it like in the Bible you find a scripture love incest - lot the Prophet Locke slept with these two daughters or two Jacob Jacob slept with his own daughter-in-law why do you not mention this by your reasoning Jacob is not a prophet of God by your reasoning lot is not a prophet of God why because they did these acts Jacob shouldn't be rejected as a prophet likewise lot should be rejected as a prophet because according to you and how do you even define evil meaning a man sleeping with his own daughters oh you say this was not done by his own volition they made him drink alcohol okay but the bible does not condemn it it doesn't punish the God of the Bible doesn't doesn't punish the two daughters of luck but it punished the whole town of homosexuals as Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed but a true daughter to give alcohol to their dad and they sleep with him and they become pregnant they are not punished this is the God meaning he punishes the the town for homosexuality and he doesn't punish the two boaters who commit incest with their own father likewise Jacob he commits incest with his a daughter-in-law and when he commits in such the ancestors of Jesus that are born so in the lineage of Jesus that we find in the New Testament there's impurity in the lineage which Muslims will reject Muslims will read that and say we cannot accept impurity in the lineage of Jesus we as Muslims Christians won't reject it but we will say they can never be an illegitimate child in the lineage of G's in the Jesus so we reject that we say Jesus was born a pure birth he was born a pure lineage so who has the right to abrogate the law you find for instance Jesus when he mentions here in Matthew for instance I have this passage marked off which is makes interesting that Jesus says that you cannot even refer to people as fools meaning which is such a great teaching that Jesus came to fulfill the law Jesus mentions that he came to fulfill the law here in Matthew do not think that I have come to abolish the law of the prophets I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them I tell you the truth until heaven and earth disappear not the smallest letter not the least stroke of a pen will by any means disappear from the law until everything is accomplished anyone who breaks one of the least of these commands Commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of an heaven but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven for I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven you have heard that it was said to the people long ago do not murder and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment but I tell you that anyone is angry with his brother without cause will be subject to judgment again anyone who says to his brother the word is reka is answerable to the sanhedrin but anyone who says you fool will be in danger of fire of health meaning if you if Christians are to preach the Muslims they even use words like fool they break the law of Jesus meaning Jesus is prohibited for even any bad language being used so Jesus came to fulfill the law not to abrogate the law so the question remains who abrogated circumcision was it Jesus who abrogated the the the laws of eating meaning these restrictions of eating swine that Christians eat swine and Jesus never ate the swine Jesus followed the law Jesus not violate the law in fact what was the purpose of Jesus turning the tables in the in the Masjid in an emotional episode the Temple Mount turning the tables upside down why because they were carrying at usury the Jews were doing usury yet you have Protestant Christianity allowing user in one state turned against the Catholic Church they allowed usery and usually now prevails in the Christian world and the rest of the world so they abolish the law who has this right of doing this likewise in the book of Exodus for instance you mentioned slavery in the hadith scholars can come along and criticize that hadith there is no restriction unless the hadith is motivated meaning you need to know what is motivated they make a distinction they read the verses of slavery in the Quran the verses of slavery in the Quran they mentioned my malakut in macomb they give permission for sexual intercourse between a man who owned the slate in that time why did they do this because the slavery was so prevalent amongst the Arabs that the Quran did not sanction slavery it regulated the slavery and it abolished many forms of slavery but did Paul do this the answer is no if you check you check the Colossians for instance chapter 3 verse 22 slavery and Paul you will find where Paul tells the slaves to obey their master likewise officiants chapter 6 verse 5 meaning if you go and check you will find Paul he had trying to abolish the circumcision he had time to abolish the the laws of eating and they even ascribed this to Peter Keith Esther the Apostle keifa's but the it did he abolished slavery Ganser is no idle and Paul abolished slavery this is a question that remains likewise the if you check Jesus what he states regarding his own enemies in Luke 19 chapter 19 verse 27 the Gideon version of the Bible which I have this Gideon version you you will find that Jesus uses more violent language according to the translation and this is the problem with translation Muslims when they read this they will say Jesus meant and did not say this or they may interpret this but according to Luke chapter 19 verse 27 we find that Jesus says regarding his enemies that he says the full the full in Thai quote he replied I tell you that to everyone who has more will be given but as for the one who has nothing even what he has to be the husband be taken away but those enemies of mine who did not want me to be a king over them in the Jews they didn't want him to be a king and the Romans at the time breathe early and kill them in front of me meaning any verse could be decontextualized sometimes by Muslims sometimes like Christians but there is a higher criticism of any text that we may read so likewise according to the New Testament Jesus is cursed it many people are unaware of this why because of the curse of the law you find for instance many distrust of course as something that Muslims will also reject because what they say or who is writing this poll not Jesus not Jesus Paul is writing this he states all who realize mean dissing ascribed support even though if you check the history history history history of the New Testament you'll find they cannot even verify who the authors are at least we know who behind it was when he was born when he died you said he was one of the earliest manuscript of Buhari again are you unaware that there are manuscripts of hadith which are available today which were written before bucolic that contained the same Hadees and mihari then they available go and set up the Hamidullah dr. Hameed ULA's research on this the manuscripts available in the museum's manuscripts are written it down the Hadees that are in bahagia find in those where so what does it's take its takes all you rely on observing the law are under a curse so jesus said you came to fulfill the law but Paul is telling us all those will rely on the lower under a curse for it is written cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the book of law clearly no one is justified before by God by the law before God by the law because the righteous will live by faith the law has not based on faith on the contrary the man who does these things by the way this contradicts James the brother of Jesus if you read the book of James James says otherwise James affirms the law and action James is contradicting poor James was the leader of the real creature of the real followers of Christ Paul contradicted him and this is why there may be four meetings in Jerusalem four meetings because Paul wanted to abolish the law and James opposed him James opposed him in this there was an early disagreement amongst the real apart the real companions of Jesus and the supposed companion because how do we know even Paul was a companion Paul tells us in a vision he saw Jesus in the region is why you have so many false prophets in America today every atom and will claim that he saw Jesus and will come out with his own interpretation what does Paul say the law is not based on faith on the contrary the man who does these things will live by them Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us and Christ became a curse for us for it is written cursed is every one is home down a tree and anyone who's under trimming Jesus was crucified he has become accursed but you know if they cannot even decide was he hung on a tree or a cross and so it states he redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit Paul changed the teachings of Jesus in order to to preach the tear to distort and give the teaching to the Gentiles those same Gentiles that Jesus said he shall not cast the bread to the dogs meaning Jesus said he shall not preach to the Gentile even the woman who came to Jesus and Jesus rejected her why because she's from the Gentiles and then later Jesus accepted her read those accounts in the New Testament Paul abolish the law so why did Paul have the authority to abolish the law likewise there are a few other things which should be mentioned with regard to Muta you mentioned muta if you had bothered to read the whole Simon read the entire Bible I read the entire Bible before coming I gave respect to the Bible by reading the Bible please do not just read answering Christianity but answering Islam or answering Christianity calm polemicist website come with the serious study if you had read the Prophet peace be upon him abrogating guitar he outra gated the the action of muda muda was a practice that was done by the people prior to Islam and the Prophet for a while left to practice but work end of his life is heap abrogated the entire practice and then Omer the Caliph was the one who forced the abrogation of the practice of mota so a person should at least respect the the literature that he studies likewise and when we mentioned variants we are first John 5:7 first John 5:7 mentions that there are three who bear witness in heavens God the Father God the spirit and many of the Christians will know the verses and God at the Holy Spirit and the son that is find in the Gideon version but then when I checked the Revised Standard Version it's not that is this the Word of God or is this the Word of God you will try to attempt to say this is in the Quran as well with the cuffs and what I'm sorry huffs and wash is just a link mystical difference of pronouncing words there is no contradiction there is no contradiction like Kerala perhaps manikyam indeed Kerala to wash Medicare with Dean just a distinction in how the word is recited but they are not different in their not variants the Shia or the the Wahhabis or the Sunni is the main three sects they they wouldn't come with the different Quran and say this verse should be taken out but in the two hundred denominations we find in America there are people who follow the King James Version there are people who follow the Revised Standard Version there everybody use different Bibles and some of them will dispute some of those verses going back to some of your additional points that you mentioned regarding the character of the the prophet you mentioned the margin I think you mentioned poverty and the marriage of the Prophet - that his cousin firstly the Prophet peace be upon him saw his cousin Zeynep throughout her life he grew up with her he saw her beauty throughout his life and he never lusted after her you mentioned the so stubborn tombery is a source that was compiled 300 years after the Prophet am I called a work that when one since I acknowledged the fact that you are comparing tabary to the Bible that is correct you cannot compare the Quran to the Bible that's good but nobody can be compared to the Bible meaning you can accept and reject verses from the Bible you can accept and reject verses from poverty poverty has if you read his top seed he mentioned he placed everything that is authentic and not authentic into poverty for sourcing purposes not for saying this is our religion babari is not such a word meaning there are verses there are narrations in poverty that you will find that are totally false this is one of them that he placed and if you check the backdrop to that you will find who the people were who concocted that story so the Prophet SAW saying of all his life when he's available his life in a velocity fire in his youth when he reached and by the way his marriages occurred after the age of 50 in the multiple marriages why because they were widowed women and women who had no one to support them that the Prophet had married and some of them did not even have sex with him they did not have even sexual intercourse they forfeited their days they said they do not want that right so he did not marry for sexual intercourse and I've already covered the marriage of I shall which is a favorite of polemicists Christian glimpses because they cannot go to do you know the Christians cannot never critique our concept of God they have to start from the character of the Prophet but as I mentioned if you critique the character of the Prophet then all the prophets in the Old Testament are rejected Solomon married thousands hundreds of women and I mentioned Noah is mated and drunk in the Old Testament all the prophets should be rejected but those things that you mentioned regarding our prophet those things I mentioned that the associate that you mentioned are not similar to the Quran they are sources that can be critiqued so going back to my initial argument is the god of the old testament and the god of the New Testament is saying if you say we have a new covenant if you have a new covenant then the old carbon was God correct in the Old Covenant or was he wrong in the old covenant meaning if you reject the Quran based on law then you should reject the Old Testament don't know why this double standard my time is nearly finished the additional point was regarding the gospel of Jesus where is it and the third point who has the right to abrogate the law I'm now going to ask thank you very much sir and I must say I am very disappointed because within 30 minutes I would expect as a Christian when the topic is Islam or Christianity choosing the right path I would expect to hear actually why should I be Muslim and why should I project Christian faith sadly I did not get any response I didn't even hear why Muslims are museum today so I've got five five pages six pages to rebuttal to God so I'll do my best and I'll kind of go through them as in order and I think I'll start with the last one towards and this is because it came a couple of times my brother gave a couple of reasons on Christian God as well as why he cannot be Muslim because of the teachings of Muhammad and his actions for us as a and for you as a Muslim one of your way one of the ways that you can learn how to live as a Muslim you would go to hadith it is the Haditha t sorry it is the hadith you would call I then I look into the Quran I will not get to hear the options of Muhammad even though chronicles museums they must obey Allah and they must obey Muhammad for you to obey Muhammad you have to go to the hadith I am a dis I am disappointed that Muslims are simply rejecting the Asahi bukhari hadees i will come to that as we go on also i am disappointed that even though the Advanta sahih bukhari museum simply thinking that option e you just go to the web site go to the Google sheikh or our muslim polemics bedside christian politics website and now you do your research from that i think that's simply not true because those references are coming from hadith and i don't think there is anything wrong to be paula missed because i would say if you are all muslims you would agree with me muhammad is one of the best columnist out there so far according to Islamic tradition he does critique other religions and there is nothing wrong with that we heard today in the opening statement while noting about why museums are museums or why should be I'm Muslim we heard that sahih hadiths mind might not be sorry approximate want over 1,000 years ago early Muslim scholars VOC there and Saudi Arabia as they did their research they put together what is reliable what is not Bukhari who was not even from that time period of Muhammad Arabic wasn't his first language he traveled all the way from Bukhara from Persia Empire and he collected approximate 600,000 Huggett and today you've got only seven thousand four hundred ninety five of them because he already rejected 98 percent I think it is not fair to only Muslim scholars that 21st century Muslim scholars simply reject what it is written in it that's not fair question objection came in the opening statement regarding child marriage Mohammed marries with a child and argument came actually it might be in hadith even though there is H issues but it is forbidden in the Quran I think it would agree with me that's simply not true surah 65 first for talking about you can divorce someone who are yet to have their periods for you to divorce with divorce someone who yet to have her period the girls who know what I'm talking about I'm sure some of the brothers know what I'm talking about for you to divorce that child person needs to be mariette in the Islamic marriage marriages marriage because of the sex so you had sex with a child you divorce her and that is child marriage it is in the Quran you divorce them and then you give them waiting periods or not waiting periods chapter is named as a divorce surah 65 so it is not simply forbidden in the Quran even though I strongly disagree that that interpretation of the age regarding the Aishah was very different at the time of Muslims at the time of Muhammad and in early Muslims I would still state that yes I share was a child because my brother already gave you sorry hadith which identifies I shall must play with those dolls which talks about I shall actually there are the hadith talks about eyes she didn't even know how to get home when they went the war she was left behind that is the famous story back shades accusing Sunnis that I should eat fornication that that's the reason because I sure was left behind she what she couldn't get home the question was what I should eat with the gentleman who so her I sure was a child she didn't know she didn't she was playing in the swings I'll she was a child because she had yet to have her period before Mohammed married her in a sexual sense so even though you you can make a statement that maybe they got the number wrong it's not seven but 17 then giving the questioning have come 17 years old person doesn't know how to go home does it does play on the swings playing with the goals I think those are the good questions and waiting for her carrier to come to be wife for the Mohammed and today sorry museum contains over thousand variations from Asha who is identified as the mother of believers but my understanding is museum is asking how can we trust her testimony how can she remember what she did when she was six years old then we have to ask the same question over thousand hundreds in just sahih bukhari there was a comment on music and no one ever critiqued age of asha until nineteen hundreds you know what is the reason for that because it was late 19th Islamic traditions start being translated to English where we had access I am from Turkey I lived in 30 for long enough I have not seen how to translate it in Turkey in Turkish in fact in Turkish in Turkey saving Western countries they didn't start translating in line after 1990s so when I have access to the book when I read it I ask basic questions I ask questions not because as a Christian I believe it is wrong it is wrong one gentleman over there thinks it's all right for him to give his daughter to 54 years old man when he put his hand up but I am more concerned that it has been done by Mohammed who according to surah 33 is the best example to mankind and perfect pattern to follow and Quran comes and confirms that in surah 65 that is the issue there was a comment on Mary and her age is 12 I am NOT I'm not here to defend any information which is not in the Bible Bible doesn't tell me Mary's 12 sake of document if Bible does tell me Mary is not example for Humanity to follow Joseph is not example for humanity to follow but Muhammad is example for mankind to follow that's the argument false I was very disappointed to hear Islamic into Muslim intercession that Islamic Museum in rotation of the Christian God even Muslims and Christians agreed we believe in one God but today I was extra disappointed here that Muslim things Christians believed God is one entity with three qualities that's not what my scripture teaches my brother I think explained very well Christian secretly teaches there is only one God and God doesn't make joke about it he is very serious when he says there is only one God and this one that is identified as three persons God the Father is identified as God got the son as a person identified as God who also identified as the Word of God took up human nature came and dwelt among us and got the spirit identified as God they are not three entities be nice I know crime doesn't understand the concept of what I believe when it comes to God a lot of things I believe in three gods a lot of things I believe in Allah Mary and Jesus that's not what my Christian scripture teaches and that's not even my brother explained and clearly that's not today Muslims believe that was a comment on Quran is the eternal world of Allah but it signify is the word of God currently according the Islamic tradition I did check some of your YouTube videos short and you believe that Quran is the eternal Word of God eternal Word of God tech of book nature comes and entails humanity the will of Allah it doesn't tell people about who Allah is but it tells people about the will of Allah and eternal word of Allah is very important parently because it is the right recitation of the eternal word of Allah is going to intercede for people on the day of judgement it is the eternal word of Allah which the rods recitation of the surah is going to appear and give account for you on the day of judgment Jesus on the question comments on the Trinity Jesus you said Jesus being quality of God know Jesus is the eternal Word of God Jesus is the king of kings lord of lords who took up human nature cat came and dwelt among us Jesus Christ is person in God head okay that's very very simple I am very disappointed to hear actually very argument which kind of identified Jesus as entity in the Old Testament 1 Samuel chapter 15 also I just didn't understand why this passage came up because Quran which Muslims put their trust and it turn it on it confirms the story of Samuel where God is judging people because of their sins and every living beings even the donkeys and museum shouldn't be surprised for that because same thing happened in the teachings of Islam same things still happens and parent they just side information for you sir and kites are very very similar to Isis I don't know where you stand on the place of Isis but God is just destroying them that was a question on the that is the gospel of Jesus in Aramaic I'm not sure why this question comes because Quran doesn't even tell me Jesus spoke in Aramaic and then he left the gospel in Aramaic Quran doesn't tell me that and the Gospels are here which is the earliest historical that writings regarding the biography of Jesus are actually written Greek Jesus spoke Aramaic he spoke Hebrew and he spoke Greek but his disciples people whom shared life with him choose to write the Gospels in Greek and if there is a gospel in Aramaic I would love Allah to express that in the Quran because Allah doesn't say that and the gospel which and the Torah which Quran is talking about is in the position of the Christians and Jews at the time of Muhammad and I look at the earliest manuscripts today I've got 5852 or 56 I'm not sure exactly the number Greek manuscripts and when I look at the Matthew I see it is writ Gospels of Jesus are written biography of Jesus are written in Greek we do have translations lots of lots often is to check them out so I would I would love to get the reference for that I also heard that difficult scholars acknowledge that Gospel of John is not written by written by John I would love to get some references for that I think it is helpful for us to remember when we pick and choose the scholars as a museum you're more important scholar is Mohammed after Mohammed it is Bukhari and then how this would follow okay your most important to color is Mohammed whom according to you delivers the message of Allah to you through angel and of course you wouldn't be surprised that when we look at the crown crown does confirm the disciples of Jesus whom museums had a problem with Paul but Quran doesn't have so far problem with that and then we look at the Islamic teachings here I have the biography of Mohammed with me I don't know where you stand in the biography of Mohammed evening you suck it mean he shot one of the earliest biography of Mohammed you ever had it's pretty much fall in love with John and Paul and confirms you can check it in the time of question announcement it confirms John wrote on biography of Jesus so there is no problem for Muslims to accept John gospel because Mohammed and early Muslims were okay with it I am disappointed that to them the first hundred two colors are not happy with their Islamic teachings doesn't realize thank you we talked we talked about it on the canonization of the Bible around the canonization of the Quran I would love to remind you all as a Muslim Quran has been actually officialized in 1924 we are not talking about the Koran which Muhammad didn't write it down I'm not talking about the Koran which is burned under the Abu Bakr I'm not talking about the crown which got lost eaten by sheep or forgotten I'm talking about this crown officialized in 1924 in Cairo University 1980 I'm talking about Arabic 1984 it has been official eyes for whole world you wouldn't be surprised today in my possessions I have told to seven different Arabic crumbs with over 90,000 textual variations and when it comes to the canonization of the Quran o Biden cup even in my suit I'm sure Muslim scholars are value on those people they were disagreeing regarding which to rice needs to be in the crown did you know there was a time and place 116 chapters were in the Quran did you know there was a time and place there was only one hundred eleven chapters of the Quran but in some how you end up having 114 chapters of the Quran with lots of missing verses I would love to get a historical reference on the moose moose off in Tashkent to be the crown of Othman I am afraid to tell you none of the Muslim scholars will back you up because that is 8th century or ninth century Quran even though all the top of it it says this is the crumb from put one that is simply not true because it mine by that time was dead and then I will take other four pages in my next [Applause] every layer of nan Ibrahim it seems a aside from this marriage is a Disney there's no real arguments you have you firstly you miss holy the Quran chapter surah total arc by the way memorized the entire Quran surah totala mentions the women that do not have the period is referred to women who have passed the age of menopause and there are some women who do not even have the mensies meaning they're biologically it's possible for a woman not to have menses also it does not mention children it does not mention children so why are you clearly miss quoting the Quran it doesn't mention the word Sabiha it doesn't mention the word Sahira it doesn't mention any of these words use the Arabic check the Arabic unlike the the Christians we said Jesus spoke Greek there is no proof for this he lived in a Hellenistic period but the Aramaic language they spoke spoken in Syria to this day the Aramaic language he spoke Aramaic in fact lol o Lema sabachthani which is coated this is the original tongue and he's calling out to God alloy Eloy why he's God calling to God and why does he say God you have forsaken me on the cross why does God say to God you have you have forsaken if they are one entity wife got going in the Garden of Gethsemane and frustrating and then saying remove this cup from me meaning this trial that I am going through additional to that you mentioned al imam bukhari as being the second authority of islam that is false allemande o hurricane and at least two hundred years after the holy prophet he compiled a book which gathered earlier traditions into a book he is one of the many compilers of hadith you said why are Muslims rejecting a hadith now read the commentaries of style bihari on that retiree and earlier commentaries they have criticism of the text like christian scholars who took the verses from mark out their criticism of the Bible scholars have criticism of Bukhari and other texts you'll find that in fact whole body and underthrew body in all these books it's a common thing from over 800 years ago likewise you mentioned Aisha was lost you didn't mention to them what happened she was lost in the desert anyone who's been to two Arabian Peninsula by the way you referred to savvy as sadly a thousand years ago it wasn't known as savvy became known as savvy recently she was lost in the desert and anyone who's been lost in the desert will need a guide even the Prophet himself needed a guide to take him from Makkah to Madinah in the migration so she was a young woman lost in the desert and she was lost not because she was a child she was lost because generally anyone becomes lost in the desert needs a guide who can guide them through the pathways because they're gonna have the m6 in those days likewise you mentioned the and after the nineteen hundreds they got to know about this I'm sorry we lived under I am from Kashmir in the Himalayan mountains the British ruled us from the slate 1700 we dealt with the British my grandfather was in the British Army they knew our check they got translations of books like he died from the early 1800s they didn't colonize Turkey that's why you're unfamiliar but the colony addicted he wasn't colonized Indians colonized and the works of Islam were translated in the eighteen hundreds so why didn't they criticize because the age of consent changed internationally by the UN and others the age of consent changed over time the only reason why you're pressing on the point of Aisha is because you cannot critique the belief in one God you cannot critique like Jesus himself he believed in one God like they were the reason to be a Muslim is because we do not believe in a myth we do not believe in a demigod we do not believe in a Hellenistic Greek of Roman myths we believe in the creed of Jesus himself who said Jesus in John you're reading John's and that Jesus says in John 20:17 jesus said to her do not hold me for I have not yet ascended to the Father but go to my brethren and say to them I am ascending to my father and your father to my god and your God meaning he was saying God is referring to another God as his God and no God makes no sense you confuse some of the things regarding entity if you talk to real Christian theologians like trained theologians they will tell you that the the entity of God is what is has is one substance but has three forms that's what they say meaning to train to theologians not polemicists so some of the other red herrings that you mentioned the Koran eternality of the Quran the eternality of the Quran the attribute is eternal God activities general the Koran signifies that in turn like if I write the name of God I say Allah g'bye Jesus at Eloy we say am I very similar but you say Allah Allah signified the word Allah signifies to God likewise the the revelation of the Quran is a revelation of the written word that signifies to the diviner to be different to saying God came in the form of flesh and God came or the accident of God descended and the man became divine that is a pagan concept and that's the main reason my questions regarding the abolition of the law were not answered and said actually you did encounter any of my points an addition but you said that the story of Simeon is is in the Quran if the Quran orders the murder of women and children and you can quote that to me that the Quran has killed the women and children and the oxes and the houses and the donkeys and everything else you miss quoted the Quran for a second time that is something which is very understandably additional to that you said Amalekites alike Isis does that mean you go and kill the women and children of Isis is that what Christians believe Amalekites if Isis are condemned the terrorists you the terrorists should be trialed in a court of law and with in accordance with the law of Jesus but does that mean you won't kill the women and children of Isis and the animals and everything else that's wrong about in syria today so additional to that you mentioned that the language of Jesus was a Aramaic I said to you where is the original gospel of Jesus you said it's there the Greek gospel and you have copies of the Greek gospel jesus never spoke Greek and you can never prove this even is harp you mentioned before I won't even stop Trinity in the Quran you say the Quran is called Trinity Christians themselves had so many sects that they differ a God read on all the area nights and the ouvea the different sects of Christianity Christians themselves could not even define Trinity in fact the Catholics are marrying the Trinity you mentioned that the Protestants don't follow believe Mary is a role model but Catholics are marrying the Trinity so Christians amongst themselves you why are you not why are you are using a Cavalier approach with the Islamic books meaning I will not decontextualize any of the verses of the Bible but you can easily quote an apocryphal text if I were to bring all the apocryphal Bibles today and all the apocryphal Testaments and use that as an evidence against you that would not carry any weight even his house book is open to criticism like that the text of Buhari is open to criticism there are texts like Sahih Muslim has a variant of a hadith in the back of him now the scholars go ahead and criticized the text itself it's a common thing they also say if I had this contradicts the Quran we go with the Quran we abandon the hadith it says it's a family not only a manuscript of Islamic legal theory like a solution she is a normal Muslim method use the additional thing you said regarding hundred and eleven chapters in the Quran again this is taken from a report of even much food that there are three commonly recycled chapters that we have in the Quran every day we recite Surat al-fatiha and we also recite two chapters as a prayer a prayer every day so Abdul loving muscles didn't add them into his personal copy he didn't add them and his student narrates that are delivering a suit didn't place these three chapters in his personal copy it doesn't mean Abdul Alim Sufis are rejecting those chapters this is again D contextualizing a report just to fit a narrative now additional to that you mentioned osmanthus house did you know 100 years ago this month most heart was in the grand omayyad mosque 100 years ago and during the French occupation the grand omayyad mosque was burnt down and the most half was burnt with it authentic this is known in known history so just from 100 years ago the in grand Abed must the MU stuff was there until the Masjid was burned down during a French occupation it's a very simple thing so my points remain but I wanted to mention to the end something with regard to how do you understand the law because in we find for instance in Corinthians verses 34 and 35 which applies to women it states every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonoureth EES had and every woman who prays or prophesies with the head uncovered this another head it is just as though her head is shaved were shaved if a woman does not cover a head she should have a hair cut off and if it is a disgrace for a woman to leave a haircut or shaved off she should cover her head this is this is in the New Testament how do you explain also in the New Testament in 1st Timothy in that you find that quote this second quote is from first Timothy that course was from 1st Corinthians 11 6 the second quote is from first Timothy 2:11 you find a woman should learn in quietness and full submission this mind of Quran in the Quran women were allowed to speak a woman disputed with the Prophet Sunnah tal Mujahideen are revealed an entire chapter giving the ruling to the woman the caliph Umar stood up a woman objected to him women were not barred from speaking but look what Paul says this man that you believe is a prophet a woman should learn in quietness and full submission I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man she must be silent so Adam was formed first then Eve and Adam was not the one deceived it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner but women would be saved through childbearing if they continue in fact love and holiness with propriety Tommy Robinson in the light when they quote the Quran through the media today they don't call these things these are in the New Testament not in the Old Testament but the question still remains why did God who is Jesus according to you all that the killing of women and children also he said in the Old Testament if a woman intervenes when two men are disputing her husband is disputing when she intervenes her hand should be cut off also in Deuteronomy and Genesis all these different rulings are found which denigrate humanity and you said law I said to you how do you define good law and bad law you still have not told me does God define good law then according to your reasoning we should abandon the Bible likewise in we find so many different passages which in the Old Testament which you say Jesus is God therefore Jesus educated all those things but in the Quran you are unable to furnish anything of that nature found in the Quran in fact you misquote in the Quran regarding the remaining men of menopause or women who do not have a biological hate so this is very shameful these questions remain my questions remain is Jesus the god of the Old Testament or a different God why did Jesus become the land in the New Testament and the Prince of Peace in the New Testament but in the Old Testament he was a god of range vengeance why did he change his character likewise where is the gospel of Jesus in his own tongue I sent you a canonization of the Quran if we accept a resumption of the Quran was done 18 years after the Prophet the Quran is memorized from every set a decade children memorize the Quran in its entirety no one can bring a manuscript but where is the word of Jesus in the Aramaic language likewise who has the right to abrogate the law why the poor legislate this for women according to the New Testament you should not even be speaking I do not agree with that I do not agree with that in Islam you are permitted to speak a woman is allowed to dispute with the man it happened in Islamic history I shall who you mentioned was one of the main proponents for women in early Islamic history she even led an army she even led a long that's well-known in Islamic history like what she told the men so many different things but why did Paul do this why this blatant contradiction which is found so finally I will move on to remember you didn't answer first John 5:7 why in one Bible is it different and why okay if someone said the Quran we are today you said earlier you mentioned 37 variants of the Quran that is false information those are different the rationale for an orthography is one the orthography is one the pronouncement of certain words is something which the Quran was revealed in which is known as the cleara art that is not a variant variant is when there is a total different meaning meaning in one dialect of Arabic you say like tomato and tomato very tomato and tomato medically only Dean Malachy only Dean that's all it is that's not a variant there's no different teachings in the thirty-seventh rings you claim to have that is deception and Jesus taught against deception a person should not use deception additional to that you do why is John Addis first John 5:7 different in one by one and different in another Bible why is Mark the verses of mark taken out from one Bible and found in another Bible please explain that very simple point regarding the last chapter of Mark in my Edition in this edition you have for is for instance you have this passage and at the bottom they place a footnote most early manuscripts omit mark sixteen nine to twenty and that's found in the RSV the RSV in fact published an addition the the standard version without those verses with that was that's not time in the 37 prints of the Quran for you to say other university commissioned the Quran you had the people laugh here they laughing because these are not ignorant Muslims those arguments may wash with someone who's ignorant of Islamic history the other universities just published a Quran with the Quran which is a mode of recitation it's a mode of recitation one group recites like a what boar hair another group research what Borja just a mode of recitation do not use deception like you have used deception regarding the menopause of women and said to the Christian followers or people who are unfamiliar with that ruling that it's children child marriage in the Quran how can it be child marriage in the Quran and when child marriage when surah nisa it mentions that when you when I Jung orphans come do not marry them until they pass the age of puberty when it mentions that very clearly in the Quran in the surah potala the chapter of divorce is referring to women who have menopause because sometimes when a woman passes the age of 50 she has no periods and when she has a long period what happens is a man divorces us so they say how long should she wait this is the ruling so you clearly miss quoting the Quran in order to beguile the people and take them away from the true teachings of Jesus towards the end I will demonstrate to you that in fact I am the lover of Jesus and the true follower of Jesus and I will show you that how toward the end of their last 10 minutes how I'm the real follower of Jesus and we will wait for that moment in short 10-minute rebuttal to the shakes Roberto from I just read the Quranic verse to you and then you make your own judgment surround 65 verse 4 this is the word of Allah and Allah 10% and go who no longer expect except ministration among your woman so that means women who are in their 70s 60s 50s when they are old if you don't then they are waiting pay these three months and those who have not menaced rated yet so it is talking about group of woman in the first group it is talking about all females who do not have their period Senhor in the second group it is talking about those who are yet to help their parents according to all doctors if the cutter included if you oppose included they are identifying this for children because they are in young age they are not having their periods so you can divorce them just remember for you to divorce them you need to marry victim unit you had sex with them that shows I did not use section because I do not worship a God who deceives so that was simply Quranic verse for you I read it we clarified that I'm not sure why this come up at the end of the conversation regarding the head covering regarding the head covering and the authority of the woman in the church can you please can you please put your hand up if you are Christian in this role so we have 99 percent of the room is museum I will submit to operate off the church in my preaching when his 99 percent museums got baptized we have a water here you can get baptized you can be mind brothers and sisters we will treat this as a church then we will discuss the authority of the woman on the submission woman a place of submission but I am very disappointed that again Islamic tradition and Islamic hadith actually talks about you do not put women in authority I am not sure why I shall fail to follow that hadith when it comes to the head covering I am sorry that you did not hear the rest of the 1 Corinthians chapter 11 because it simply clarifies my hair last time when I checked this was her and then I washed it this morning it is had my head covering if you read it and of the chopped' a little bit patiently even know and while my head is my head covering head covering steps into the Muslim world so that museum woman will be identified and they do not get abused because what happened to the soda according to Islamic tradition but I'm gonna go back to the where I left the reason I didn't respond to your question because I had only 20 minutes you gave me five pages comments and in your opening statement you did not even reason for us why I should be Christian why I shouldn't be Christian and should be Muslim therefore you have to wait as the time consumptives I'm only in page 2 just a clarification for sake of Muslims not so it's not sick of the sister Christian sisters and brothers the sake of the Muslims it is not true that Tashkent Musa Tashkent Quran is from time of it one that is not simply true you do your homework please do not take what people say what I say go and check it out as I'm sure you noticed I am the one who is in this room and my brother is the one who is giving reference museums I have not given any reference therefore I cannot handle the references they given they haven't given there was a comment on the recitation and memorization of the Quran I'm sure which you're already identified as educated Muslims you know that reason Quran is written down because people who memorized the Quran daily died in the battle it was only 70 of them and then listening world suddenly I don't know how to save this word nice may be translated freaked out they got conscious they got subconscious they are losing the Quran therefore they wrote it down and as they write it down if you believe that you memorize the Quran very well I would really really appreciate couple of people to stand up in this room specially those one who memorize the Quran very well recite for me adult breast suckling verses recite for me surah 33 verse 127 and recite phone with the Russian verses if you memorize those verses was in the Quran of Oatman above Othman and agua they are not in today scrub if you memorized it I would love to hear the dissertation of that I would love to get reference regarding what is the reference that actually monkey copied from mark that that command does mate but there is no reference if you travel today around the world yes there are children from age five learn to memorize the Quran and recite the Quran I think that is very amazing but you know what they recite different currents I'm sorry that you don't believe what is the physical evidence you can check them out and I am sure you would you would know English is not my first language Arabic is not my first language but in English and in Arabic fight and kill are two different words and in the Quran you can see these variations that's just one example that was reference asked regarding Jesus speak Greek or not he didn't speak Greek but actually referenced I was given regarding Jesus is calling woman dog that is actually very awesome passage confirms how Jesus there is no any other way how Jesus got himself and in that passage Jesus is engaging with Greek woman for Jesus they engage with people probably Jesus was practicing his Greek story of love story of so and also Jesus called this woman dog that wasn't installed there is a there is a man in Old Testament there is a man in Old Testament identify the scallop in Hebrew definition for that language dog and he's identified as the one who followed God with all of his it is amazing compliment given to the dogs who are not belong to the Israelites Lord and his example with he slept with his daughters love is not prophet in Christian faith it is prophet in Islam with faith and people does simple things which Lord did Jacob well as you said it's Jacob but actually pleased to check that that Judah he was best saved and slept with his a daughter-in-law he was thinking deceived sinful people did simple things and Bible records that I don't have that much time to respond all those objections but I am happy to if anyone brings something the question on Lunsford I can't respond on let me tell you something King of Kings Lord of universe logic of cosmos not only step in the discard but he stepped in this world gave his life for Humanity on the cross and turns that humanity and says would you like to spend your eternity between in that cross Lord Jesus Christ asked people to make marriage covenant with him wherever you stand today Lord Jesus Christ is the one he can only give you eternal life wherever you stand today you know if you've got Islamic Jesus you will never get that eternal life thank you now the final statements [Applause] we'll be shaker straws and after that we'll be offering the floor for questions Manila him firstly to start with the verse of the Quran I've got the Quran opened in front of me in the original Arabic tongue unlike the New Testament which we do not know that the New Testament in the Gospel of Jesus in his original tongue the Quran here States the verse that you quoted it mentions regarding the women well is nominal Mahima Nisa equal the first one is regarding the women inhale the site it mentions in near term is a doubtful for a double Siddartha to assuming they're women and the second one which is mentioned when he let me Adina those women who do not have the height which is the women in menopause the third category were allowed to marry the women who are pregnant the women who are pregnant this is the third one please go to Quran correctly do not denigrate the Christian faith by miss cult in the Quran in order to just to win a polemical debate secondly the points you mentioned again another misquote that 70 people who are memorize the Quran they died no thousands of companions that memorize the Quran a war occurred in which 70 memorizes of the Quran died not all the memorizes of the Quran and Allah brought the elan came to abu bakr umar and he said there is an urgency because 70 memorizes of the quran and i abu bakr himself memorize the quran omar memorize the quran multiple companions and already memorize the quran do not nitpick in order to make a false argument secondly you said stoning in the quran was in the manuscript of a smart that is incorrect you cannot ever source that what omar said was that the words of the Quran in the lifetime of the Prophet the stoning was recited but then it was not added into the recession of a smart it was not added into the reception of a smart because the ruling the ruling remained but the recitation was abrogated and is quoted correctly meaning if you're gonna make an argument against that at least quote the context correctly additional to that he said children recite different or odd this is false that's why everyone laughed because we listen to kids reciting the Quran inside in Saudi Arabia in Syria I studied in Syria have been to Egypt I've been to Morocco been over to over 15 different countries now we live in the modern age typing on YouTube the different types of neurons they're not different parents they may have a different mode of recitation this is another misquote you keep using which is taking it totally out of context it's just it's like tomato and tomato as I mentioned the example earlier you mentioned locked and view down the limit I said even if Judas in the lineage of Jesus is tainted then because according to the New Testament there is a illegitimate child in the lineage of Jesus how can you believe there's a impurity in the lineage of God I mean first God doesn't even have an image but if you ascribe your lineage to God I can't even believe there's a legitimate when in the Old Testament states that a legitimate child should not even enter the the the places of worship there are verses that say that in the Old Testament and the additional questions were not answered meaning I'm attempting to answer all your points was Jesus cursed you never answered that according to your have we cannot become Christians because the New Testament is telling us that Jesus was cursed we cannot become Christians in fact atheism is more of a rational choice than Christianity that's like majority of Christians turned to atheism is there's no rationality in Christianity now I've said you I will prove that I am the real fellow of Christ but before going on to that there are two challenges one is in the Quran in the Quran there is a challenge that after the Muslims and the Christians are debated in the lifetime of the Prophet the Prophet challenged them to a mutual cursing that the Muslims will say the curse of God be upon us if we lie and the Christians are challenged to say may the God that made the curse of God be upon them if they like I'm sure you will accept the Quranic challenge that I would say openly now if I am a liar and I am false may God curse me you are challenged to accept to do the same that is the challenge from the Quran but then you have a challenge also from mark the verses that were taken out by Jesus ascribed to Jesus himself where Jesus says whoever believes and is baptized you wanted everyone to be baptized yet so you're baptized will be saved but whoever does not believe will be condemned so you're baptized and this is what you should be able to do and these signs will accompany those who believe these signs should accompany you in my name they will drive out demons I'm sure there's no one possessed by a devil here but nevertheless they will speak in new tongues so you said you cannot speak English well but you should speak in tongues you should be able to eloquently put your argument across according mean speaking in tongues the Apostles are able to speak in any language to the people that they convey the message to additional they will pick up snakes with their hands they will pick up snakes I do not have a deadly snake but I have the next thing and when they drink deadly poisons are bruising with me when they drink deadly when they drink deadly poison it will not hurt them at all yeah rat poison look it will not hurt them at all they will place their hands on sick people and he stand up there's a brother Ali who is in his blind he is blind he is volunteered for this you see and they will get well so we have a challenge Jesus has told us who his true followers are if they are baptized today's Christians 200 denominations even if we abandon Islam meaning for a secular world order because really people hate on Islam because of Sharia law they can never debate the concept of God in Islam they always debate Sharia because the Sharia law is the only law that's opposing the UN and all the secular world angular world water but if we placing that aside if we abandon Islam and we have two choices atheism and we have which is more rational than Christianity the second one is Christianity 200 denominations you stand as Catholics are wrong Protestants within themselves you have Baptists seventh-day Adventists you have Jehovah's Witnesses secretary Chu's from Jesus has told us that the true Christians can be poison they can kill people like Ali are you able to fulfill that challenge are you able to drink rat poison the rat poison is here for anyone to come and drink the rat poison and if they cannot release a safety cap on here I leave this they they should be able to drink rat poison and cure any and those will be the true followers of Jesus so this final thing that with regard to the challenge of the Quran meaning after we discussed you said white and Muslim firstly any of the laws you find in the Quran mainly most people leave Islam because of the laws like Paul wanted to abandon the laws there are Christians today I want to abandon the laws meaning restriction in Quantic and hamburgers from McDonald's you cannot eat pig you cannot drink alcohol too many restrictions the woman is commanded by God to cover the man in order to keep his gaze low these are laws which people find straight so they abandoned the law now when they they you want us to abandon the law but the law itself Jesus came to fulfill the law if we didn't have dietary restrictions you could be like the people in China eating snakes and reptiles and everything and anything dietary restrictions are there so a person learns self-restraint we fast in the month of Ramadhan so we learn self-restraint the law is there for a reason but then you criticize the law and the character of the Prophet but I'm saying to you if you criticize the Islamic law your own books Jesus says bring my enemies forth and kill them you've not answered that the New Testament says Jesus is cursed in fact there's a potion in which the Bible says Jesus everyone went to hell meaning it states that the meaning Paul writes this and that Jesus went to hell after being crucified you he died according to them and then there's a contradiction Jesus is calling out to himself so he says oh god why have you forsaken me but you're telling us he's God so God is calling out to himself and saying why have you forsaken me he's given no explanation for that likewise he is calling out himself by saying in oil oily mess about honey likewise the god of the old testament he is ordering the killing of women and children and you have still not and you said it's in the Quran that's not in the Quran you you have not been able to produce that story of Samuel from the Quran with the Quran orders the killing of women and children in fact in the hadith it solved much transmitted from the Prophet peace be upon him that you cannot kill women and children it even tells you you cannot kill own people it even tells you you cannot kill the the monks and the Christians they are protected even the trees cannot be cut the Christians never talked that in the hadith ever there's a conduct of war in Islamic law and if there's isolated reports that contradict that the scholars will have a critique of those hadith that's why you rushed off to quoting Hadees and even the forum is complete you miss coating the Quran because that verse I just mentioned to you verse four it does not say what you say you're relying on translations because you are used to using translations for the the Bible so this Bible maybe they translated the Bible the language of Jesus from Aramaic to Greek and from Greek to Latin and even in Latin they hid that from the people in the European the Middle Ages from the in the Dark Ages but Islam the Quran was never hidden the child had memorized the Quran in Islamic history the Quran was never hidden everyone recited the Quran in Christianity now we can read the Bible and we can check that there is violence in the New Testament also ok that completes the statements from our speakers we've heard lots it's been too controversial and passionate the floor is now open for questions please raise your hands people shout your questions we have microphones and they will be brought to you all those who have a question I will find you we will try to ask a question to each speaker you have one question please stop making it to a speech we want to try to get through as much as we can so there's let's see the question there first of all and then the next question is there in the middle comes up my question is to the I'm sorry the what's your name sorry I apologize that's referred to me as the Muslim okay thank you very much for how you spoke as a Christian I just wanna ask you on we believe the Bible says that Jesus Christ is the truth awaits and the life that no mountain gets the father book through him as Christians we believe that we've all sinned and done wrong before a holy God so we get right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ you let the perfect life and die for sinners like me so in the Muslim faith how does one get right with God is it my wigs or is it by faith and if it's my wigs then what do you do about your past sins because if God is holy and pure he can't forget your past sins so what do you do about that so if you could just explain thank you very much for your question of three minutes with regard to your question firstly salvation is through Jesus Christ we as Muslims accept this it means teachings of Jesus Christ likewise salvation is through the Prophet Muhammad the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon them both but what we refuse to accept is divinity of Christ that Jesus worshiped one true God we believe that the sins are forgiven by that one true God now you're saying past sins how can they be forgiven God does not need a blood sacrifice for the sins to be forgiven even in the in surah hajj when am i mentioned the sacrifice given in the Hajj he says that the sacrifice the blood and the meat doesn't reach God but the trueness of heart if you have a true heart you are in the kingdom of God you are forgiven by God by acknowledging Jesus Christ and acknowledging the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon them both as messengers of God and not as gods themselves not as divine that passage I mentioned to you God that Jesus says the saying that is the true teaching of Jesus that Jesus took people to God but then what happened the teachings of Jesus were distorted by porn how were they distorted by Paul Paul is responsible for what we know as the New Testament today the New Testament is whether words written and compiled what this question is had at what reference is there that in the book of John the book of John go and check scholarly in Protestant commentaries on the Bible they acknowledge the fact that the book of John is not by the Apostle John it was written decades after Jesus decades after Jesus the New Testament was written and it was written in a Hellenistic Greek old environment making Jesus into a demigod when they made reasoning for demigod Allah sent the final prophet to clarify this issue Christians today cannot refute us on that so they resort to tarnishing the character of the holy prophet so they bring up the marriage of Asia or the wars and these type of things but when we study the Quran correctly and we understand that they may be some support for hadith that their narrators may state something incorrectly we reinterpret those Hadees or reject some of those Hadees but but I said this is a contradiction why because the old testament contains worse things it contains killing of babies you notice they are saying god sanction the killing of babies we are not saying god sanction the killing of babies the old testament is saying this so by that reason we should reject the old testament christians should reject the old testament salvation of your sins remember God doesn't need blood sacrifice all we believe is when you succumb to your human nature you turn to God and God forgives your sins yes so when we believe that when Jesus obviously we believe that there are three persons within the one divine being and I think I gave a good explanation of that so Jesus is speaking to the Father now when Jesus became a man he also became a servant of God in order to be the perfect man and be the foot and take our place on the cross because if he had to his own sins to pay for then he couldn't take our place so Jesus is speaking to the father in that particular situation but I just want to respond quickly to a couple of things there as well said and remember the hadith I said about sins being like a fly on your nose this if you believe Allah can just forgive you if God can just forgive you you're looking at your sin is just a fly on your nose we believe that scene is like a big mountain about to crush you so we look to Christ now see if God is just if God is truly just he must punish us for our sins to be merciful is to not give you justice now we look at sin as though it was a mountain about to fall on us but we look at Christ we look at Jesus as though he willfully came in and took our place for us and in regard to the last chapter of Mark we don't not all Christians except that last chapter the reason why is it's big it's not in the earliest manuscripts that's exactly what as I said it is not in the earliest manuscripts is that that satisfy your question in regards to that why Jesus he was speaking to the Father does that answer your question I would just add what my brother said and in Christian scripture it makes sense because we believe in triune God God the Son and God the Father do not act independently thank God like teenage child who does her own thing they work together I guess my question would be to you in surah 33 verse 56 Allah does salat for Muhammad who does not love to select Allah is one being moneth who is the one who hears the salat of Allah I think those are the questions in your three time it could be helpful for you to think through okay thank you I've just got ya gone so just in regard to Jesus becoming a curse for us this is basically what Paul is trying to say is Jesus took the curse of the law for us the curse that we couldn't bear Jesus took that for us that's all Paul is trying to say now Jesus obeyed the law perfectly and when it says cursed is everyone who relies on the law it's talking about people who rely on the law for salvation so it doesn't actually apply to Jesus right thank you still got a second suspect we're gonna take a question there I'm just going to clarify the speakers have three minutes to answer each question in that time if they want to rebut something that a previous speaker has said they are allowed to do that I know some people were a bit concerned but Gail is going off topic there from the question but the speakers are allowed to do that because that's three minutes it's for the audience to decide whether you think the answer was satisfactory or not okay thank you very much for all of you and I believe that we because there should be called I guess the the wave against anything people like religious we should gather and we see common in our both believe I I attended a Muslim I attended church and I found out 95% we have a same young stream the problem now why we we we raised you standing against everyone we need to go back to the book itself I know as a Christian be written there but Bible to be written hundred years of the the Jesus passed and yes the Quran should we need to go back to the basic we need to go to the Quran and most of you the Muslim you're talking about the hadith the Hadees is Buhari he's not he's not Arab in 16 years he collected 600 600 thousand yes and you end up at seven thousand so there are too many talk about the hadith the Quran itself if you talk awesome the Quran you will see if you find the reality so you talking about the Hadees now and use now today and tomorrow will be different and different places so if a hadith is not respect what if you have depended all the hadees yourself your question my question all the religious dependent christian and muslim that because the Hadees look at the okay I'll answer your question firstly if you notice in our discussion I pointed out to my interlocutors that they should not be citing hadith first they should be going to the Quran so you acknowledge my point additionally the Quran is misquoted again you said you saw Luna and the Navi is that God is praying to Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu you sell the force or praying for firstly the word you saloon if you know Arabic meaning you should speak in tongues because Jesus said the truth Allah should speak in tongues is a hominin it's a harmony it has multiple meanings this is common in the Quran you have one one word when applied to distinct individuals carries different meaning if you don't understand art then at least refer to lanes lexicon go on google and write in Glens lexicon and check the web you saloon for instance the word your saloon can come it's from the Urrutia sala usually which means to burn burn something so you can you a person like you would end up translating is the god is burning the prophet well here to build a mistranslation it's a homonym word unfortunately you are unable to do that with your Bible because you do not even know Greek you do not even know Latin you do not even know Aramaic which many Muslims know you do not even know Hebrew you cannot even resort back to your original texts we can resort back to our original texts with regard to Caleb's point and since the hadith means when a Muslim has a small sin and he deems it like a fly on his nose or a mountain this is referring to repentance and Muslim sins he sees a mountain of sins and if he plants and turns to God straight away this is the meaning it doesn't mean that we take the sins lightly it means when we do a sin we turn to God straight away because of our human nature additional to that there was a point which aside from sinning with regard to God I mean Jesus calling out to so God a God came in the form of a human being and when he came in the form of a human being he called upon himself this is what we have been told so God came in the form of a human being and he called out to himself and he said to himself why have you forsaken me he said why have you forsaken me meaning who is calling out to who this is the the illogical aspect of Christianity which why much of the Western world has abandoned Christianity because it has no roots in a rational basis our discussion originally should start from natural theology natural theology is the recourse of the mind to reasoning our faith first before starting from Scripture if we started from reasoning alone our Islamic Creed of God which you have not critiqued you only Pilates use a lunar point which is a hominin and I'm still waiting for drink is rap talks because Jesus when Jesus said that meaning if if you fulfilled those miracles of healing ally and disciples of Jesus why am i doing someone else's sin and if I commit a sin why does it require someone else to to be punished for that so the example I will give you is if I would be just thank you so in regards to the first question so what was the what was the first question in just remaining salvation through Jesus okay yeah so yeah yeah okay so you are not being punished for adamson that was the first question that you asked right we do not stand before God because of Adam's sin I do not stand before God because of Adam's sin I stand before God for my own sins for my own right secondly there's only two ways that it can go in terms of justice either you can pay the price for your sin which the Bible says isn't it in hell or somebody else who is righteous and who has not sinned can offer themselves to take your place now in our culture we don't find that acceptable but in ancient cultures it was actually considered quite noble to come forward and offer to take somebody else's place so just because we don't accept it in these days or today's modern culture doesn't accept it doesn't mean that it's not right I think it's a noble thing that somebody can come forward and willfully take your place on the cross did you want to say something you can your second argument is false because that's our Christian scripture teaches your brother is sinful person your twin brother is sinful person like your only differences he failed to kill the people you killed that's the only difference but that doesn't mean your twin brother is very good and righteous person in the story of Christian scripture it is perfect God man steps into the world it is not my brother who is sinful it is not my mother who loves me he/she wants to take my place it is God looks at us and he says no they can't do it I love them I want them but they come to it his son is willing to give his life for people like you and like me and that is he is not under any obligation he does that out of his grace and I am grateful that when I stand in front of holy God all I am saying is thank you Lord Jesus Christ you thought I was good enough that you laid your life down your life down for me to regard the poison quickly sorry just in regards to the poison as I said that that isn't in the earliest menu so the poison it doesn't work and also in regards to but even if it was in the earliest manuscripts I did not know I would love to know actually if you can drink that poison because remember guys what Mohammed says just drink the poison get a date it should help you okay date can someone going get the date and also can someone check if it is poison or not [Music] is the question if that is poison or some deception is going down a lot so you can check them that's right thank you got a question down here and then we're going to rapidly moving to close now I can see a few more hands we'll try to get through as many as we can I want to limit the I'm going to limit the responses to two minutes now because we want to finish just around nine o'clock okay and the Sheikh who was going to prove that he's the real lover of Prophet Jesus before me okay with regard to what calleb said that it was an honor for people to die for the sake of someone else in previous cultures and it's no longer honorable then that would mean he should accept the marriage of either of the Ilana because it was a cultural accepted fact fact at that time it's not accepted anymore additional to that you mentioned a few more points but I cannot remember that maybe the poison is taking its effect I said is it real that I do you see it's a matter of fate this is a natural yeah it's real but basically we had a leader for you to kill and poison to drink now you said that you do not believe those verses are a part of the Bible yes so you're telling us to believe in a Bible which has verses that you yourself do not believe it meaning what kind of religion is this that some one group of people I think these are verses from God and another group of Christians are saying that these are not verses from services a cut a contradiction so so the Quran says do you believe in some of the book and reject some of the book so this is a big problem for Muslims because we accept all the Quran from beginning to end but you have just acknowledged that this aspect is not from the Bible so to conclude the reason why a person should be a Muslim is because in Islam we have truth belief in a monotheistic transcendent God and which is a perfect absolute being and if anyone believes in human being a man God demigod they are in fact falling into paganism and away from the true true religion of God okay thank you my question is for the Christian people how do you define the Sigma sin is transgression of God's law that's a simple way to answer it's okay to kill donkey say sorry okay do magic donkeys and babies I can't quite understand why is it okay donkeys and babies okay yeah in that passage it's a good one to answer to quickly in that passage that there is a similar argument in the Quran where somebody who Moses is following and learning from kills a child and it's through 18 and they it was something and the Prophet responded to Moses and said that the reason why killed him is because he was going to cause his parents pain now the reason why God ordered the killing of the Amalekites was because they were going to number one persecute Israel and try to destroy them in fact one of them sort of survived which was her an Haman and he tried to kill all the Jews in Babylon and in addition to that they were going to try and lead them away from the religion so God because he knew that in the same way in your Koran has a story where somebody is killed a boy is killed because he was going to cause his parents grief in the same way this is much more serious God knew that the Amalekites and the Canaanites were going to lead Israel away from the worship of God and they knew he knew that they were going to try and destroy them so he ordered them all killed in the flood of Noah lots of things human beings and will beings like that I am just gonna give quick respond to the concrete because I didn't get a chance to respond Islam I'm sorry to tell you that but Islam doesn't teach monotheism Islam doesn't teach chocolate how it is unification islam teaches all of us pray to someone for muhammad it is in arabic and even in the hadith you can you can you can no Adam please no you cannot what Allah praise Allah prays for that confidence it is not me just talking okay maybe you love a chance next time there's a question here okay so my questions the cuddle and the Christian side so I listen to your point about the Trinity I just wanna refer to the Bible King James Version John 3:16 where God talks about being great question I'm glad you brought it up um the the word begotten there is actually it can mean just unique so Jesus is God's unique saying now how can God Jesus be both God and the son of God that's the real question so if we were to say someone was the son of Satan we would say that would be an evil ungodly person right and I think at the simplest form to say that someone is the Son of God is to say that they're a godly person you can look at em it says blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the sons of God you see Kings are called the sons of God Israel is called God's Son many other people angels are called God's Son but Jesus is uniquely God's Son because he is the only one that he's actually perfectly godly so begotten means unique that's what it means it doesn't actually mean in the Greek there a procreation it just means that maybe he is unique Jesus is uniquely God son because he obeys because he perfectly represents the godliness of the Father did you understand in Islam giving attributes of Allah [ __ ] and names of Allah to something gas goes against target accordingly Islamic Scripture according to Islamic Scripture Allah does share his attributes with Jesus according to Islamic scripture when Jesus creates with his breath much faster than Allah according the Islamic Scripture Allah shares his attributes with Blackstone when you kiss the blackstone your sins are being forgiven and Blackstone is going to the malachite point that you mentioned revenge code refer back to the these First Samuel you'll find that a malachite was revenge for Israel and it was taken on the revenge was taken on later generations this way I believe the modern Zionist State of Israel may be taking much of its violence from the Old Testament much of the violent to stay violence is taken from that day and you mentioned you mentioned the Quran mentioned the story of Hitler and killing of a child the point of mentioning the Amalekites point to you was that you cannot debunk his love through Sharia because then you fall into UT fros dilemma how do you define evil is evil defined by the mind or is evil defined by Scripture meaning the Christians have the same problem but I will tell you in Islamic theology the evil is defined by the scripture in Revelation that's the correct method in Islam we define evil by the scripture you mentioned again you start doing so you are not supposed to be speaking in tongues because the the passage you are saying is not a part of the Bible so we're not supposed to believe in on the Bible because they are telling me that there are verses in this same Bible that are not Bible so in the same Bible it says you should be able to speak in tongues now if you are able to speak in tongues you will know you Salone as multiple meanings you keep mentioning that point go and check Lane's lexicon it's found online go and check even hands where a dictionary a very simple dictionary even a person like yourself can understand that dictionary a third point that you mentioned with regard to the question that was mentioning regarding did God beget a son in the old editions of the translation reads a translation of the Hellenistic manuscript known as the New Testament the word sired was used go and check the website going google and write sire sired means and a man has sexual intercourse with a woman and impregnates a god-sized jesus this is so this is what is a mention you know they use the website for farm animals so that is what is exactly which is fine so those are some of the additional point I think reasons for becoming a Muslim Muslims have retained the law Muslims have retained the purity of Mary because in the New Testament Mary is a sinner also Muslims retain the purity of Mary the purity of Jesus Jesus is not cursed and you said he's not he is not cursed God read the passage again it says Jesus was cursed because the curse of the law was taken away by Jesus hence he became cursed and entered hell the the New Testament tells Jesus the Quran does not curse Jesus so for Christians the best faith to choose is Islam because Islam exonerates Mary exonerates Jesus honors Jesus and States Jesus wasn't crucified on the cross because in Roman times when a man was crucified he was crucified naked he didn't have the saddle clock he didn't have the napkin tied around he was naked and it's not says he wasn't naked that is all we have time for so we're going to and with that I've been asked to remind you of the feedback forms that are in front of you some of the exercises are working to organizing these events they don't charge for them please do fill in the fever form before you need

Channel: Madinah Society University of Manchester

Views: 70,046

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Id: Tk0mtJ7cdl4

Length: 149min 6sec (8946 seconds)

Published: Fri Feb 21 2020