Mohammed Hijab vs David Wood | Tawheed vs Trinity | FULL DEBATE!

Sam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh before we start we're gonna have quran recitation by co-written wa for a few minutes sanam re comfortable Ducato min ash-shaytani r-rajim bismillahirrahmanirrahim or the kafir' Molina ball more than I see Roberto my wallet my c4 we are bunnies solo dolo hell don't be what'll Duncan in know who me you're me love you by the Harlingen one volley mean I mean so look what a conformal Lavina know that Sonny's son I mean uh heed me the one and I am a son levena the bunny boo now you know what you are you're still feeling Oh merci beaucoup [Music] you're bounnam you do Nilay mother Nicola couldn't bottle one enough one long was Sammy running bismillahirrahmanirrahim what a miracle oh sorry cool film working was all about cooler Shane mahalik unless you da-da-da-da-dah what does that mean Dooney he Arnie Nadler gonna say [Music] lacunae jung-geun enthusiam boom [Music] if so call the joy Oh [Music] walk on isoclinic debuffing here to learn a book or don't [Music] hamdullah Mossad wa sallam and I said nah Rasul Allah Allah le haut Sophia's marry your college Muslim Student Association is very proud to present this event and before we start this event we actually want to thank our sponsors grassroots Dawa Muslims give him back and Salam initiatives so we have brother Muhammad Hejazi who's gonna give us one minute speech before we start Salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa arigatou hamdulillah to Solomon also Allah he was Avila and wallah your brother Mustafa hijazi Ricola here so I'm basically here to represent the and introduce the co-sponsors mainly we have a grassroots Dawa NYC Muslims giving back and Salaam so just to run through each of them so grassroots Dawa NYC is aid our organization more focus on Street Dawa initiatives in the tri-state area mainly New York City and so what we do is we go out and we convey the call and basically set up a dowel boots in our New York areas and the popular areas such as Union Square Park Times Square different areas in the Bronx and the Queen's everywhere that you could possibly think open in New York boroughs and so this is a call to invite each and every one of you to join this initiative allah subhanaw taala says in surah al-e-imran in chapter 3 verse 104 where Allah says letter arrives to you a small group or a nation that enjoins in good and forbids evil and they are successful and Allah also tells us in chapter 3 verse 64 the same surah 'julia a Hello Kitty reptile of Allah Kalimantan so why am banana when you come and learn about Allah he says all people of the scripture come to common terms between us and you that we worship the one true God and not ascribe any partners to him and so this is highly relevant today to today's debate this is essentially a dhow initiative and there are much more to come so please join this to join the effort there's our Facebook grassroots that WA NYC for more information as for Muslims giving back similar work Dawa but they also focus on providing to the homeless and the needy so if you're interested visit MGB I'm JB inshallah and finally Salam is actually the organization that Muhammad had job and alle da WA work closely with in fact they're the founders and initiators of of that organization and so you can find more information by going on their site specifically I think it would be of interest to look into their podcast which deals with a lot of the polemics and its conceptions in Islam today and so Jews Akram law here and may Allah and Allah make this a fruitful evening coming up next introducing himself is brother yeah brother Ali Dawa I said I wanna come where I mentally better care to before I start when a prince almost ponder what Allah the most merciful the most just or praises glory and gratitude belong to him for the works that we do as you guys know from the YouTube videos that we do for the past couple years hamdulillah we've reached a vast amount of people I'm gonna in total we've reached fifty two million people every month we reach two to three million people we serve this organization not just me myself a Mohammed II job we shouldn't just get the credit we have our teachers Shah Mohammad Sheikh Muhammed of man and the whole team may Allah bless every single one of them salam stands for sharing affection love and mercy at the times that we live sadly a lots of people have hijacked our religion and be the extremist muslims don't need to mention their name you guys know what I'm talking about and be it's non Muslims who lie about religion on a constant basis so Islam is there to give the people a pure understanding by deconstructing false narratives and reconstructs in pure minds so people can understand the true essence of Islam so that is what Salam is about you can check out our website in Shalala you can check out check out our youtube channel and that's exactly what we're here to do and today's debate is in shower start of that and we thank every single one of you guys who have come here today may Allah bless you guys make to answer Allah this called successful and that's about me Allah grant you guys John Salam alaikum warahmatullah better care to thank you very much brother ala Dawa so before we start this event I want to make sure to inform people why we are hosting this event as your college Muslim student must say we're something that we're seeking to host a respectful and friendly dialogue debate between two key figures David Wood and Mohammed a job both of these respected figures have expertise in their core beliefs that said the topic of the debate will be Trinity or Tahiti the debate will focus on the essence of God from both Christian and Muslim perspectives it will be as it will be an educational discussion form expanding on core theological concepts there will be significant references exchanged both from the Quran and the Bible so before we start I just want to make sure that the audience has have this clear we there are gonna be multiple opinions in this in this debate so I don't want anyone to feel offended this is we're here to learn about each other's perspectives if you feel easily offended please do not react and at the same time if any of the speakers make any make any statement that you feel that is a very good statement or you feel that you agree with clapping is sufficient we don't want any verbal cheering or something like that this is a very very educational debate clapping is sufficient so without further ado I would like to introduce my co-moderator bir salim rahim [Applause] so this is how the format of the debate is gonna start we're gonna have 20 minute opening statements for each speaker then it's there's gonna be 12 minute first rebuttals and then eight minute second rebuttals then crossfire examination were where the speakers will be asking each other questions each speaker will have six questions to ask the other speaker and it will take two minutes to answer each of the questions then we're gonna have 5-minute conclusions then as you can see there are mics in at the front where there's going to be a Q&A session where you can ask where you can ask our brothers a brother Hamid a job and David would any questions if you have please keep everything respectful if there's if there are any any disrespectful remarks view you will be escorted out so without further ado introducing our first speaker dr. David Wood so just a little background on dr. David Wood he's a Christian evangelist and preacher David Wood is a member of a society of Christian philosophers the Evangelic old philosophical society and the human society he's a former atheist David became a Christian after examining the historical evidence of the resurrection of Jesus he's a contributor to the books evidence for God 50 arguments for faith from the Bible history philosophy and science defending the resurrection and true reason Christian responses to the challenge of atheism David has a PhD in philosophy from Fordham University and has been in more than 60 moderated public debates with Muslim atheists and other Christians and that's a little background on our first key speaker dr. David Wood and without further ado introducing our his opposition brother Mohammed hijab [Music] [Applause] a little background on a job he's an academic researcher and media host he is a debater and public speaker who engages in discussions and polemics on wide variety of topics including religion politics and society he completed a politics degree and a master's in history from Queensbury university he has taught and instructed courses on humanities and languages in many contexts he has numerous Jazz's and some Islamic Sciences and has studied in multiple Islamic seminaries in including the shinkichi Institute which employs a traditional Meridian style of teaching the sacred sciences mister her job is currently doing further postgraduate research in Islamic studies at the School of Advanced Study University of London so like I said just please keep everything that I said in mind and I think we will start with brother Mohammed a job giving us his 20 minute opening statement [Applause] [Music] you know the Quran tells us to Allah Allah kilometres away no no way no come lnamidal Allah the first thing we are asked to do when were engaging with Christian people is to come to common terms that we worship none but allah subhanaw taala and that's something we really need to think about we need to think about the common grounds that we have with Christians there's lots in common we believe in Jesus Christ we believe in the Messiah we believe in him we love the Messiah who believed Jesus I believe that he was born from the Virgin Mary there's a whole chapter in the Quran dedicated to her well of course the elephant in the room or the difference of opinion is in the fact that we as Muslims do not believe that Jesus was divine or that the Holy Spirit is divine today's discussion ladies and gentlemen is about her head and Trinity so heed is monotheism to believe and worship in one God the Quran says put it below I had the love summit that say he is Allah one and only the eternally besought of all the sovereign the Trinity is defined by the after nations Creed in 500 AD Athanasian Creed as one divine person that one divine being divided into three divine persons the father the son of the Holy Spirit the father is God the Son is God the Holy Spirit is God but there are not three gods but one God it goes the father is Almighty the son is almighty and the Holy Spirit is Almighty but there are not three or Mighty's there's one Almighty this is what the Athanasian Creed says now to be honest with you I've heard David would speak before and I've noticed that there are three common fallacies that he falls into quite often one of them is a fallacy called the - Kok we fallacy which is an appeal to hypocrisy another one is a straw man and a third one is the red herring these three fallacies are employed by him quite often and he talks about Islam extensively as you guys may know in a negative way Salaam Initiative has put up a database of all of the major misconceptions against Islam being answered and this can be seen in the link below I also want to give credit to one team member who has made a website called many prophets one message which can also be seen in the link below you can see more information about them now to cut straight into it the question now is this the question is when we look at the Old Testament do we find this idea of the Nicean Trinity because the Nicean Trinity is very specific after the Constantinople Creed in 381 the idea that the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are three co-equal Co eternal independent beans remember those words co-equal Co eternal independent persons of the one being of God this is the Nicene understanding of the Trinity now having said that guys when you look at the Old Testament do we see this because when we look at the Old Testament we find the Shama chapter 6 verse 4 Shama Israel at the Rio you know I had here o Israel My Lord our Lord is one load here when you look at the first commandment chapter 20 verse 3 of Exodus you find there's no God beside me I'm your Lord and is no God beside me you find in Isaiah chapter 43 verse 11 once again the discussion of I'm you God and besides me there is no Savior now someone might argue about the word eloheem and this is the weakness of the argument it's a weak linguistic Cartman order him is a majestic plural they would argue look there are nine thousand pronouns in the Bible which relates to God's name let's take for example Genesis chapter 1 verse 1 Bereshit Bereshit bara Elohim the word baja means he created whenever you find a pronoun in the Old Testament referring to eloheem you will always find it in third person male singular one more time third-person male singular you don't find a plural version of that you don't find the a pronoun which is pluralized so now the question would be is this a Jew who is acquainted with the Torah with the Old Testament why would one ask him to realign his belief his theological doctrines into believing in a triune God when in fact he's been instructed quite explicitly in fact in the Old Testament not to break the commandments you see it gets a little bit more interesting even when you look at the New Testament now we're not the New Testament has different Austen authors there's 27 books of the New Testament you've got Paul who's written up from 7 to 13 books in this dispute that's exactly how much is written John written many books who is John we don't know who John is by the way we don't know who John is but yes Paul had a kind of exhortation Christology there's no doubt he did believe that Jesus was divine and a good example of that is the second Philippians to him but he believed in a kind of supposed racialism how do we know that because if you look at line 9 to 11 it's quite explicit that God gives him the name so he didn't have it before Jesus did not have the name before and he makes above all names so that he believes in a kind of subordination is now a subordination ism it's a hierarchy within the Trinity remember we said and I see and Trinity is three co-equal Co eternal persons of the Godhead Paul didn't believe this he believes in a hierarchy John believed in an incarnation Christology in the beginning was the word and the Word was with God everyone knows the prologue John chapter 1 yeah but the question is this who is John his gospel was found some 95 ad this is the time it was found in 95 AD that's some 65 years after Jesus's disappearance the irony overall is that you'll find in the Gospel of John for example passages like John 17:3 where explicitly mentions that the father is the only true God explicitly mentions this and this was such a thorn in the side of the church fathers that Augustine a major church father who died 430 ad and who who wrote an exegesis on John you know he said he rearranged the words of John chapter 17 verse 3 he changed the word order so as to make Jesus and the father the true gods this is how severe it was when you find mark chapter 12 verse 29 that you came to Jesus asking how to be saved and what did Jesus say did Jesus say and Mark by the way is the most ancient manuscript of all of the Gospels most ancient Gospels what did Jesus say did he say you have to believe in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit as co-equal call eternal independent beings he said no he said he referred him to the Shema chapter 6 verse 4 of deuteronomy that's what he referred him to he didn't tell him believe me as God or believe the Holy Spirit is God of all these things No so you see real entry that the question is where do people Christians today where do they get their information of the Trinity you'll find that in Matthew chapter 28 verse 19 it talks about it's called the baptismal formula where the father and the Holy Spirit is mentioned going the way baptizing the way the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit and so Christians use this as just proof ok journeys in the Bible now the users to say look the Trinity is in the Bible now but why don't they look at Luke chapter 9 verse 26 because Luke chapter 9 verse 26 has a different triadic formula where there's the Father the Son and the Holy Angels yes the Holy Angels not the Holy Spirit so why don't we infer a Trinity from this this is the question now we've had these debates before and they've been done before and it's usually okay we'll get a vague verse here and I'm big over here and we'll start talking about these things but here's an interesting question now how did the earliest generations of Christians interpret the New Testament corpus you have church fathers who are the most learned men of Christendom people like clement of rome Polycom origin people like those individuals none of those church fathers for the first 300 years listen to what I'm saying none of those church fathers for the first 300 years of churches stream inferred a nice C and Trinity from this can you imagine 300 years 10 minutes Eve even Julian who died 240 80 to Julian who dubbed or coined the term Trinity us which was later translated into Trinity he was a subordination assistant he believed the hierarchy within the different persons of the Godhead the interesting point here is you have someone like you have someone like he'll operas he was taught by a rainiest massive church father Justin Mata massive church father he taught origin of Alexandria a massive church father and he writes in his book against the heresies in chapter 22 what does he write he talks about this group called the Ebionites who were around around 70 AD 40 years after the disappearance of Jesus and they believed that Jesus was not God that he was a prophet and that he was the Messiah there were other groups like the monarchists who believed the non divinity of Jesus it wasn't just the EB Anais some monarch eNOS also believed that Jesus was not divine in the way that Trinitarians make out to be no one spoke about the Holy Spirit God co-equal and coeternal and independent with the father and the son in the first 300 years that discussion is completely gone so this is quite interesting ladies and gentlemen you know why because you could say from this that we're the Islamic position of the non divinity of Jesus and the non divinity of the Holy Spirit was represented in the early church the Nicean Trinitarian position was not who I say that one more time he wants to hear it okay where the Islamic position of the non divinity of Jesus Christ was present and the non divinity of the Holy Spirit was present in early Christian church history the Nicean Trinitarian understanding of the post Constantinople creed was not proved me wrong never proved me wrong give me one person for the first 300 years of church history that detailed co-equal eternal independent father son Holy Spirit give me silence me prove me wrong I want to be proven wrong today I want to be proven wrong to be silence me tell me one church father for the first 300 years of church history that said the Holy Spirit was co-equal Co eternal independent with the father a son please please give me there give me the records is a historical investigation you just give me one I will be quiet I will apologize I will apologize in front of everyone I will apologize in front of everyone yes now it gets a little bit more stickier than that because if you look at a book called the Christian doctrines early Christian doctrines by Jane D Kelly conservative Christian scholar he details exactly how this Trinitarian nice the internet Aryan thing came about if you look at chapter 5 is a very interesting read go and read it it's that you had for example Athanasius who was a very ardent trinitarian around Nicean times and then you have Hillary upon tears they were advocating the Trinitarian position then you had the Cappadocia and fathers who are Greg Greg revenues I'm Z as director of Nyssa and part of the grape and they bath of the so called great they are the ones who advanced the Trinitarian position the question is who gave those guys the authority to interpret texts like this and to overrule all the things that came before why now the last thing I want to talk about is the rationality of the Trinity because this has to be mentioned now the Trinity asked Thomas Jefferson mentioned is an unintelligible this is what he says an unintelligible idea of platonic mysticisms that three are one it's a contradiction ladies and gentlemen that you have fathers almighty son Almighty Holy Spirit is almighty but they're not three all that is about one Almighty that's a contradiction that's why Randolph rah-rahs robbing his book common sense Christianity talking about the hypostatic Union because now you have Jesus who's 100% man and 100% God tell me what is a contradiction if that isn't it's like saying X is 100% a square and 100% a circle Randolph Ross a dismiss this is impossible I can't believe this he's a Christian now as its mentioned five minutes left in the introduction in the introduction he mentioned that David Wood is part of the evangelical Christian philosophical society his Boston superior someone called Paul Koplin Paul Koplin wrote a whole thing talking about because talking about social to determinism and basically he tries to reason in the same way as Nabeel Qureshi did in his previous debate by the way with Shiva rally he says a look the way it works is he said look I'm a being and European yes I am Muhammad her job I'm a being I'm a human being David was a human being but how is differentiated from who that's what he said how is differentiated from who this is the idea that Paul Koplin and William Lane Craig and these social Trinitarians believe in that how is differentiated from whom that's not correct that's false you know why because you can only differentiate from how from who when you have a multiplicity of instantiations in any given genus say that one more time when you have a multiplicity of instantiation in any given Gina C in any given class let me tell you I mean I can't differentiate between me Mohammed you God and David would unless the two of us because if there was one human being the how the rule would be that the what said that one more time if there was one human being the who would be the what and the what would be the there would be no differentiation you have to establish now and this is a third thing I want to say how you can have a differentiation from who and how without having a multiplicity of instantiations in any given genus which means you have to admit first that there is more than one god for you to differentiate between them as persons and by the way this is an unbiblical unscriptural thing the differentiation between person and a being it's an unbiblical thing I would like to see if it is in the Bible where it is in the Bible so just to summarize what I've said because I've only got three minutes left these are the questions I want the answers to today question one why is it that in the Old Testament you do not find the Trinity mentioned or inferred and if it wasn't further why haven't the rabbi's the Jewish scholars for 4,000 years of Hebrew history inferred it that's question one question 2 how is it the case that if the Trinity is explicit in the New Testament that for 300 years of church history Nicean trinitarianism was not inferred by the church fathers question 3 where give me one person of the first 300 years that says that the Holy Spirit was Co eternal co-equal independent with God one name I will apologize in front of everyone today yes I will apologize question for how is it the case that how can you rationalize this contradiction of the Trinity when you have a hypostatic Union someone who is a hundred percent man and 100 percent God are you telling me to believe in a squared circle today sir is that exactly what you have for me you want me to become a Trinitarian square circle and then you have another thing the Father is Almighty the son is Almighty in the Holy Spirit Almighty the Quran refuses chapter 23 verse 91 now Alabama home alabama they would have tried to outstrip each other deal with the Quranic argument you like to attack the Quran you will see today that the panic argument will suffocate you it will suffocate you [Applause] [Music] [Applause] number five one minute left in fact I think four questions is a lot for this man if you could do with four I'll be grateful to him I want to say one thing before I can't find you might be thinking why are you being quite firm with this man today you know James why he's a very respectable scholar of Christianity and he's a good man yes he is and he refuted this man because of his mockery this man makes mockumentaries against Muslims and he refuted him on the basis of a verse in the Bible first Peter chapter 3 verse 15 where it says be respectful and honorable what is the point of causing social Disko Asian what is the point of attacking a people making a mockumentary of Muslims drawing the Prophet playing him in the thumbnail all those things and you know it's going to offend the Muslim community isn't that high time at the age of isn't it high time at the edge of Islam of five seconds and racism that we stopped this was salam aliekum wa rahamtullah again [Music] [Applause] thank you very much Mohammed after that wonderful opening statement and not without further ado we have dr. David Wood with his first 20 minutes of opening statement [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] he'd jam this thing in there all right I'll just leave it like that can't overcome that strength all right well good evening I'd like to thank Mohamed hood job for challenging me to this debate and for crossing the Atlantic Ocean so that we can share our thoughts with you I'd also like to thank grassroots Dawa and the Muslim Students Association and all the other groups that were involved in organizing and planning and hosting my prediction is that tonight will be what what young people called epic see now what's the difference between the Trinity and sowhy well one is admittedly so utterly confusing that people wonder how it can possibly be true the other is the Trinity yes you're going to find out that I think that the doctrine of tawheed which oddly enough we didn't hear much about in Muhammad had jobs opening statement I'm convinced that the doctrine of tell he'd at least as it was taught by Muhammad is vastly more confusing than we hear about today so let's compare them and we'll start with the Trinity why do Christians believe in the doctrine of the Trinity we believe it because we are forced into this view by the triune God not because of church councils the church councils were forced into that view by the triune God for Christians we have certain amount of data that we work with everyone has some data right we look around we see the world we see that it's organized in certain ways we know that there's a moral law there are hundreds of millions of people in the world today who believe that they have witnessed miracles all of this helps us formulate a concept of God but Christians also have the Scriptures the Old Testament and the New Testament and when we start reading the Scriptures things get very interesting very quickly so these are the first two verses of the Bible long before Christians came along in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was without form and void and darkness was over the face of the deep and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters so we've got God but then there's a distinction it says and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters later in the same chapter opening chapter the Bible verse 26 we read then God said let us make man in our image after our likeness now two obvious questions one who was he talking to and two why does he say let us plural make man plural I mean make man in our Laurel image the plural of Majesty right well the Jews didn't use the plural of majesty so why is he using this it's just a mystery so far we don't know yet but as we continue reading the mystery gets deeper in Isaiah 9:6 the Prophet delivers a prophecy for to us a child is born to us a son is given and the government shall be upon his shoulder and his name shall be called wonderful counselor mighty God father of eternity Prince of Peace a child is born a son is given and this child is said to be the mighty God how's a child going to be the mighty God in Isaiah chapter 48 verse 16 yahweh is speaking yahweh is the speaker and he says draw near to me hear this from the beginning I have not spoken in secret from the time it came to be I have been there and now the Lord God has sent me and his Spirit Yahweh is speaking and Yahweh says that he has been sent by Yahweh along with the spirit of Yahweh how can God be sent by God along with the Spirit of God well we just don't know still later in the Old Testament zachariah 12:10 Yahweh is again speaking and he says I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication they will look on me and the one they have pierced and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son Yahweh will pour out a spirit which causes people to repent and they will look on Yahweh whom they have pierced and mourn for him as one grieves for a lost son how can an immaterial God be pierced unless he takes on a body so the Old Testament concludes and leaves us with a lot of questions about how to reconcile the claim that there is only one God with some intriguing hints at plurality then Jesus comes along Jesus tells his followers that he's the final judge of all people even though the Old Testament says that Yahweh is the final judge of all people Jesus says that he's the one who raises the dead at the resurrection even though the Old Testament says that Yahweh is the one who raises the dead at the resurrection Jesus calls himself the lord of the Sabbath he claims to be the lord of the Prophet David he claims to be the IAM of the Exodus he claims to be greater than God's temple Jesus tells us that he has an absolutely unique relationship with the Father that he can answer prayers that he's present wherever his followers are gathered that he is with his followers forever and that he has all authority in heaven and on earth he even makes the startling declaration that all things that the father has are mine but Jesus also prays to the Father and he claims to be from the father why would Jesus make claims that only God can make yet also be drawing attention to God as the father in John 14 through 16 Jesus says that after he returns to the Father he and the father will together send the Holy Spirit the Spirit is sent and yet as we've seen the Spirit was with the Father at creation psalm 104 verse 30 says that the spirit creates the universe the Spirit is omniscient in first Corinthians omnipresent in Psalm 139 and eternal in Hebrews 9 these are divine attributes and the Spirit is distinct from the father and the son so what do we do with all of this well if the father is God and the son is God and the Spirit is God and the father is not the son and the son is not the spirit and the Spirit is not the father and there's only one God the Trinity is the only way out and that's why I said that we were forced into this view by the triune God himself now my Muslim friends tell me that this concept of God is absurd even though we got it from God through the missions of the Son and the Spirit my Muslim friends tell me that I should reject this confusing concept of God and believe in something much simpler the Islamic concept of God but I've been going through your sources for a good little while now and I see some serious problems with the doctrine of tahini let me give you a few examples first Allah praise people ask Jesus is God why does he pray I have to remind them that we're Trinitarians makes perfect sense for the son to speak to the father makes much less sense given the Islamic concept of God for Allah to pray in surah 33 verse 56 of the Koran we read surely Allah and His angels pray for the Prophet o you who believe pray for him and salute him with a worthy salutation Allah and his angels pray for the Prophet translators try to hide this by translating it as Allah and his angels send blessings or show mercy or they praise Him the problem here is that what it says Allah does is Salah and you know what that means you know there are perfectly good Arabic ways of saying all of those other things every Arab speaker in the world knows that Salah means prayer and it says that Allah does Salah so who is Allah praying to second according to the Quran most of Allah's parts will die the Quran and the hadith refer to a las face his hands to right hands in fact fingers waist Shin feet and so on now there's a tendency to interpret scriptural statements about God's bodily parts figuratively if we say God's eyes see everything no one thinks we're saying that God has eyeballs but there are most Muslim scholars themselves are the ones who are arguing that descriptions of a laws face and hands and feet and so on have to be interpreted literally not simply anthropomorphic Allah ten minutes left so Allah has a literal face literal hands and so on and yet we read in the Quran Sura 28 verse 88 everything will perish except a laws face which means if you arts if you are taking these parts literally and the only thing that survives is a laws face then allows face has different attributes from the rest of his parts perishable versus imperishable third the Quran is an eternal person while Orthodox Islamic theology insists that that Quran is the uncreated speech of Allah and Co eternal with Allah that would be interesting enough we can't forget that according to Muhammad the Quran is also a person who intercedes for Muslims and Sahih Muslim 1874 Muhammad says to his companions recite the Quran for it will come on the Day of Resurrection interceding for its companions and how can a book intercede for people Muhammad explains in musnad ahmed and sunnah inhibin maha where he says the quran will meet its companion on the day of resurrection when his grave is open for him in the form of a pale man the quran will say to him do you recognize me he will say I do not recognize you it will say I am your companion the Quran who kept you thirsty on hot days and kept you awake at night so the Quran which is eternal and uncreated appears as a pale man speaks to Muslims and then speaks to Allah on their behalf again this person this pale man is eternal fourth the Quran isn't just personal it's multi personal and I hear from Muslims that that's impossible even though the Quran is an eternal person who appears as a pale man and intercedes for Muslims there are actually multiple persons within the one nature of the Quran in Sunan Abu Dawood 1400 Muhammad said there is a surah in the Quran which consists of 30 verses is referring to sura al moe it will intercede for its companion until he is forgiven so a specific chapter of the Quran can appear and intercede for those who read it but Muhammad isn't done so he Muslim 1874 he tells his followers to recite surah al-baqarah and sura al-imran because these surahs will come as two flocks of birds on the day of resurrection pleading on behalf of the muslims who recited them since muhammad mentions three different sorts of the quran which have their own distinct personalities their own knowledge I think we can say that all of the surahs of the quran have their own distinct personalities the quran will some read today is thus one in essence as the word of allah but a hundred and fourteen in person the personal chapters come as flocks of birds pleading on behalf of muslims I see lots of Muslims smiling and laughing this is what your prophet said your prophet I think it's funny too but I try to I try to try to hide that a little bit fifth the multi personal Quran has a mother Christians claim that Jesus is the Son of God the Quran responds Sura 6 verse 101 how can Allah have a son when he has no wife notice that the Quran discern assumes that filial terms taught terms referring to offspring have to be interpreted in a biological sense well if we can only understand these terms biologically we have to ask about the qur'an's mother so at 13 verse 39 allah blots out what He wills and confirms what He wills and with him is the mother of the book whom al-kitab the Quran smother is in the presence of Allah I would normally be happy with some metaphorical meaning of something like that but it's the Quran itself which says that we have to interpret claims about Jesus being the Son of God biologically so if we have to interpret these claims biologically then I have to say if the Quran has a mommy who's the daddy 6 Allah spirit who is eternal and the co-creator of life is a person according to Islamic theology nothing that is a part of Allah or that originates from within Allah is created but the Quran says that Allah breathes out his spirit this means that like Allah is eternal speech the spirit comes from within Allah and is thus uncreated and eternal Allah creates man in sort of fifteen by fashioning a body out of clay men breathing a spear hybrids left the Quran says that Allah strengthens Jesus by the spirit and that the that he strengthens all true believers with the spirit but the Spirit is a conscious agents who can appear in the form of a man the spirit appears to Mary and speaks to her and surah 19 and then breathes into her just as Allah breathed into clay to create Adam oh so the spirit is an uncreated eternal co-creator who is sent by Allah in the form of a man to perform certain tasks and if he can strengthen believers wherever they are he would have to be omnipresent some divine attributes all over the place here vii islam deifies muhammad when muhammad would spit his companions would rush to collect the spit and they would rub it on their faces they would struggle to save his used ablution water if a hair fell off his head they would rush to grab it after the Battle of hood Muhammad's companions men named Malik collected the blood that ran from Muhammad's wound and drank it Muhammad said the fire will never touch you this isn't how you treat someone you regard as a mere human being today however no one can drink Muhammad's blood or rub his saliva on their faces but Muslims still address him directly in their prayers most of the time when lessons are praying they're reciting words that are directed towards Allah well there's a part of their daily prayers where they say assalamu alayka by johann the BU now that does not mean God please bless Muhammad that is peace be upon you Muhammad they're speaking they're laughing and they're speaking directly to Muhammad in their daily prayers they're talking directly to Muhammad in their daily prayer this assumes that he can hear them and so he hears them all over the world in which case he must be on the present interesting for a mere human being viii islam deifies jesus without even realizing it Allah is uncreated and eternal but as we've seen there are two uncreated and eternal persons with Allah his word his eternal speech and the spirit that he breathes out and yet answer for verse 171 even when the Quran is asserting that he's only a prophet it refers to Jesus as a laws word and as a spirit from Allah as if this weren't enough Jesus goes on to create life in exactly the same way Allah creates like a lot of fashions of man out of clay and then breathes his spirit into it what does Jesus do he fashions a clay bird and then breathes his spirit into it and this gives life Jesus is co-creator no wonder his followers started worshipping Him ix Islamic worship draws extensively from the polytheism of seventh century Arabia during the time of Muhammad the polytheists of Arabia would perform Tawaf walking circles around the Kaaba why did they do that because they were following Abraham no they believed in seven planetary deities who circled the earth and so they walked seven circles around the Kaaba in order to honor these seven planetary deities Muslims do the same today but not realizing where the practice came from there's also the black stone this was one of the pagan idols became part of Islam you kiss it and it can be an expiation for your sins but according to Muhammad the black stone itself is conscious one minute left we read in termini and Nibin Maha The Messenger of Allah said concerning the stone by Allah Allah will bring it forth on the day of resurrection and will have two eyes with which it will see and a tongue with which it will speak and it will testify in favor of those who touched it in sincerity so this isn't a random lifeless Idol this is a living breathing Idol so in the Koran we've got a loss swearing by literally everything we'll be talking about that in a little in a few moments given that we find these things in the Muslim sources I'm truly interested in how we can sit here and poke fun at the doctrine of the Trinity now the real basis i find for reconciling these texts with the doctrine of tawheed is that muslim scholars don't let you know this stuff which is why you think it's funny when you're hearing it time is up dr. wood now we're gonna start our second part which is the 12-minute rebuttal and going first is mr. Mohammed hitch up and you can go ahead I think that said some career-ending embarrassing statements today I mean to be honest with you after 20 years of researching Islam you come with this okay let's deal with one one by one spirits of God hovered over the hovered over after the God created the heavens in the earth okay no problem it's that's not to be God no problem let's go to Zacharias in Old Testament chapter 6 verse 5 there are four spirits so are there seven gods now because the word in Hebrew is Roja and you wouldn't know about Hebrew because look I I think not only do you not know Arabic but you don't know Hebrew and you're making a big mistake by trying to interpret the book the biblical text in this way there's two words for spirits in Hebrew language is raw which is the same as the Arabic in the raw the word Ruach is here in Zechariah chapter 6 verse 5 talking about four spirits so tell us why if there is a spirit and it's God then how comes there's only three gods so three persons of God and and there isn't seven for example he says that food that Jesus is called the etymology fallacy that's you know his benefit is Emanuel etc God is with us Elijah is also what Elijah in the in the Hebrew language means God is with us so if if that makes Jesus God then Elijah is also a God we'll move on where else did he say I am statement if you look at the New International Version of the Bible the I am is actually not translated as I am but I will be and there's a whole discussion on that and to be honest with you frankly I don't even take the Gospel of John to be completely authoritative and neither do the majority of biblical scholars anyways 95 AD it's a long way he says Allah says that Allah is on the island maybe and he's here saying that he prays to the there's a difference between you suddenly laho and you solidly Allah in the Arabic language I knew this was going to happen I knew I was gonna have to give you a free Arabic lesson here today I knew it and that's why the translators brought for not to the Prophet you don't know what the words in Arabic meaning gotten here speak so solid this even come on please don't embarrass yourself Allah has parts he says Muslim scholars say we should take this literally which Muslims scholars which Muslims scholars he says kullu shay'in helical ilaha in surah qasas chapter 20 of the quran means everything is destroyed except for his face and this means that allah all his body parts will be destroyed he has body parts and these things first of all the word cool in arabic doesn't necessarily mean all a sub hero book alcool vomited on and he said and he shows with examples that what cool doesn't mean all I'll give an example in chapter 46 of Quran so laka to them Miroku Lucia in Vietnam behind for a spa Hulagu our ulema Sakina whom that the wind destroyed everything cool Lachey the same words here in surah qasas everything was destroyed except for the houses if it meant every single thing it wouldn't have been the houses would not be there so what cool doesn't mean that an Arabic language once again it's a problem with language he says that this is exactly his words he said the Quran is a eternal person tell me one scholar in the history of Islam who said that this is a lie he says the Quran is a you have to it will come as a Shaffir on the day of judgement so if this is the question the output Butterfree I'll help you yeah if the Quran is an attribute of God how can it intercede for you this is what he's saying right it's a good question this is a good question well it's not a proper understanding of the hadith this is the only good question you have I'll give it to you this the only good question you have the hadith says EPCOT al-quran so it's not that the Quran ie the attribute of Allah that will intercede for you on the day of judgement but it is your pure of the Quran and the fair web you gave the Quran which means the reward you get from the recitation of the Quran not the Quran as an attribute of Allah yeah he says therefore is 114 persons of the Quran - cocoa a fallacy - cocoa a fallacy I told you to do it an appeal to hypocrisy so hey are you admitting that having more than one person or the being of God is wrong because you should lead trinitarianism then well obviously as we know there's no one in the history of Islam that referred to the surah of the Quran as persons this is wrong you don't know about Islam here you're being educated he said well I'm talking level sake but he didn't know the Arabic but I'm going to give him the side of the Arabic in chapter 6 verse hundred eight of the Quran where Allah says that Allah does not have a mate so does this mean what does this mean that biological they had the discussion biological really and truly how can you have a begotten son there's only three options number one biology number two adoption and number three metaphor and if you say it's not biology and it's not adoption it must be a metaphor so Jesus is not a son of God okay and then he says that the profits they played you know this time to get his hair and the spit and these things okay well if you think splitting when someone makes you a god well that's what he implies then I wonder why you look at every other verse of the Bible as implying that Jesus was God because for you as spit that's that's making me a god now I mean don't embarrass yourself in front of me as-salaamu alayka I said this means that he's interceding because it's a narrative voice assalamu alayka we say this in the shout every time it's a narrative voice however let's not say it's a narrative voice let's give it to him he says this must mean that the Prophet Muhammad is omnipresence yes he's omnipresent let's let's have fun with him today there is a hadith in Bukhari which said that whenever one person does Salah on the nebby which means blessings and praise on the Prophet blessings on the Prophet the angel will carry that and give it to him it doesn't mean that he's hearing it everywhere the angel is moving around this is from the will of Allah and if you didn't know that now you do he says that's Kelly Mutulu the eyes have been referred to as the word of Allah must mean that he is divine so although the Quran says clearly that he's not divine no it makes a mistake he is divine why you all over the place your family all over the place it's embarrassing Karim Allah is defined in chapter 3 verse 58 of the Quran what allah subhanaw taala says in the masala eyes and the lie and the like a Metheny Adam hala home interurban fumaça allow cool very cool five minutes left he said to him be and he was the word is defined in the Quran as B so Allah says be and things are just like he said be with Adam he said be with Jesus and he was he says that there are seven planetary things in Arabia and these things I mean how can you make a judgment first of all I have for that I didn't see a rough you didn't say yes I give you a reference here it says Bacardi whatever even if it's got a reference how do you know that the practice originated from that and not from Abraham after all Abraham even in the Old Testament yes he existed pre existed before Jesus even though you have you know the physical Jesus and he was there in the desert and you have in the Book of Psalms mention of pilgrimage so if this is the case that I wonder why this is mentioned now this is I think this is all that he kind of mentioned I want to give you one principle ladies and gentlemen that will destroy everything he said the Quran says chapter 42 verse 11 leisa chemistry Shaykh warhorse Samuel was here there's nothing like him you can't do to be or tamseel' of Allah anything that we see in the Quran talking about the hand talking about the face all of these things you can rest assured because of this verse and the other verse well I'm a California had that this means yes this means it cannot be compared to anything you imagine let's do the cool observer collapse are in the Quran anyways I mean every Muslim knows this but the idea is as implicit admission here that I've lost this is this is where I come up with I've lost yes we know Trinitarian it's been so confusing but I'm gonna show you how much you know tell hate is confusing as well I have admitted defeat therefore I'm going down I'm going down and we'll try and take you down with me that's that's really what you're trying to say to me David would I know by the look of your face here you probably agree with me let's be honest look at his face everyone it is the gentleman take a look at his face yes anyways I've got a few minutes left let me recite some Quran because I've done with this guy allah subhanaw taala he says in Chapter number 19 verse number 31 about Jesus is what we believe about Jesus Aulani Navi johnniemorrow can also achieve exactly madam - hi chipiya Vasily - young Moya oh hi the lake is Ivana Maryam : hot in addition him Tom Oh little happy if he and McConaughey Dom um so bhajana so vahana who either for in Paula Hawkins a when become fa'budun see welcome beam me machete Minami the ISIS said jesus according this is guys Christians this is what Allah says in the Quran listen to it tell me if this is not a better model for you be honest this is Jesus he says I am the slave of Allah of God he gave me the book and he made me a prophet just like in chapter 8 mark mark verse one minute left yes 48 people thought Jesus was a prophet in the Old Testament and the New Testament time in the time of Jesus when he was alive Jelani Mubarak an animal contain he made me blessed wherever I am this is what we believe of Jesus he made me blessed wherever I am you know well Sonny was so light he was a Katie madam to higher and he told me to pray and to give charity so long as I am Alive you know this is what we believe about Jesus Christ what Bertram be really dirty I was good with my mother well I'm a jabberin Jackie I wasn't that arrogant person well sallim ala are you morally - and peace be upon me the day I was born and the day I die and the day I will come back to life that is Jesus son of Mary the one who you didn't about is Archon allahu khairan [Applause] before we start on dr. David woods rebuttal I'd just like to remind fell audience verbal cheering is please please refrain from verbal cheering clapping is sufficient enough and we just like to remind both speakers to stay on topic and be respectful towards the other speaker thank you and dr. David what do you have the floor thank you again Mohammad in my opening statement I laid out a basic case for the doctrine of the Trinity and I claimed that the Islamic concept of God is a more confusing than what we're normally told I pointed out that Allah prays and he said well there's a difference in the meaning of the verb here well the Quran says repeatedly that Allah prays and guess what he prays in the Hadees as well and what's interesting is there are even Muslim translators who are acknowledging this and translating these passages as Allah prays so I should Bewley I've got a ton of Islamic books translated by her respected around the world from riyad salihin The Messenger of Allah said Allah and His angels and the people of the heavens and the earth even the ants in their rocks and the fish pray for blessings on those who teach people good so Allah prays who's he praying to Allah hadith alkyd SIA translated again by a Muslim translator hadith number 216 the Israelites said to Moosa does your Lord pray moosa said fear Allah o sons of Israel Allah said o Moosa what did your people say will so said o my lord you already know they said does your Lord pray Allah said tell them prayer for my servants is that my mercy should precede my anger if it were not so I would have destroyed them Allah prays that his mercy will triumph over his wrath now if Allah is praying what he's praying for self-control here apparently right he wants to punish them but he prays for self-control this is not me this is these are your hadith and your translators translating these passages as Allah praying why because that's what Salah means if I'm wrong give me give me the linguistic basis for for saying otherwise second I said that Allah has various parts but only his face is imperishable which means that different parts of law have different attributes that's just what it says and it says everything will perish except his face so if you're interpreting the parts as literal parts we've just got a problem here right it gives the qualification and saying everything will perish and I understand it can say you know everything this or everything that it's saying that everything perishes except his face it's drawing the only the only exception there which would mean that certain parts are parts with different attributes unless Allah is just not clear in his Quran which he claims to be clear over and over again third I said that the Quran is an eternal person these Allah is eternal word but he also takes the form of a pale man now it's kind of hard to hear because over there but I think Muhammad replied that it's your own recitation that appears Steve now that's interesting enough if your own recitation of the Quran is appearing as a pale man but I don't think that's what it means because of the next point which is that individual chapters of the Quran appear as flocks of birds to intercede for you so if individual chapters of the Quran are appearing and pleading for you then why wouldn't the entire Quran as a whole also be appearing to you so it seems that it's not just talking about your own good recitation or something like that but the book itself he says I am the Quran now by the way this is a very interesting and I think it might be a source of problem here Muhammad says well who refers to these Quran chapters as persons and I think there's a little difficulty here this might be why he's having trouble understanding the doctor of the Trinity if he's if he's misunderstanding this word person here and and and how its applied if a flock of birds can talk and has knowledge and this flock of birds knows what you've been doing they know that you've been reciting the Quran they intercede for you they plead to Allah on your behalf well those are qualities of what we call a person in philosophy right it's communicating like that it has it has certain kinds of knowledge it it appeals to people and certainly this is what we mean by the term person and by the way because we're talking about origins of Islamic practices if you go to the early Islamic history there were goddesses there were many people in Arabia who believed in you know in a kind of hierarchy right where they believed in Allah and they believed that Allah was the main deity but they believed in lower deities and these were intercessors now Allah Allah Sandman odds were three goddesses and they were called the exalted cranes they were the birds that would carry your prayers to Allah or they would fly up to Allah and intercede for you and why is this interesting well the goddesses are described in terms of birds who go and intercede for you but Muhammad after introducing tawheed says that it's actually chapters of the Quran that do that for you now they appear as flocks of birds to go up to Allah and intercede for you now if I ask any Muslim in here hey if someone believes that there's God and then there are these other beings who intercede and fly up to them and enter and intercede for you and plead for you is that polytheism monotheism every Muslim would say that's polytheism okay well if there are these flocks of birds around and they are the eternal speech of Allah and they fly up and intercede for you and they plead on your behalf what is that it's pure monotheism that is very interesting he says no one refers to the Quran as a person or chapters the Quran as a person again if you understand how we use the term that should end the confusion as for the Quran having a mother will melt kitab No he pointed out that well if you're if you're saying it's not literally biological then you must be saying it's merely metaphorical and no not in the Jewish or Christian scriptures son of is used in a variety of ways and so the appropriate and the appropriate response to Christian theology would be explained to you explain to us what Jesus sonship means and that would be explained in terms of the doctrine of the Trinity but no Christian has ever meant that Jesus is the biological son of the Father so if Allah is telling Muslims in the Quran and I bring this up because I hear this from Muslims almost every day well how can you believe that God had sex with Mary well I never heard of a Christian believing that where are you getting that idea from getting it from the Quran from Allah so the point here is if Allah knows what the Christian doctrine is why doesn't Allah say what the Christian doctrine is and then explain why it's wrong he just never does Allah tries to refute the Trinity doesn't know what the doctor of the Trinity is he thinks it's it's Allah Jesus and Mary who are three separate beings who just work together that's not the doctrine of the Trinity what's he responding to likewise with the sonship of Jesus he gets it all wrong so you've got a problem here either your God doesn't know what we believe in which case he lacks knowledge or does know what we believe and he's deliberately making fun of it or misrepresenting it if he's deliberately misrepresenting it then that would be an ethical problem six I said that a laws spirit is an eternal person who takes the form of a man to carry out tasks again having trouble hearing down there if there was a response that please remind me seventh I said that it's LOM deifies Mohammed said well you know Mohammed spitting and stuff doesn't that what's that got to do with him being God that's not that's not the point the point was Mohammed's just a man the Mohammed's just a man Mohammed's just a man and then you see how his followers acted towards him and it's clear he was much more than a man Tim when a normal human being is walking down the street and spits you don't say oh I have to rub this all over my body Muhammad's companions did if a hair falls off a normal human beings head you don't say oh I need to grab this I need to save this if someone is bleeding a normal human being is bleeding you don't say hey let me get that running blood and drink it this was acceptable behavior from Muhammad and his followers and how if you saw anyone doing this if I said hey there's this place somewhere in South America or something and they've got this guy down there and whenever he spits they rub it on their faces whenever he washes himself they collect the water so they can rub it on themselves whenever he bleeds he gets cut they drink it you say oh look at this idolatry look at this paganism that's exactly how Muhammad expected his followers to act and for some reason whenever it's in Islam it's still just pure monotheism I said that Islam accidentally deifies Jesus calls Jesus a laws word and a spirit from Allah now keep in mind those are the two eternal co-creating Co eternal beings with Allah his word and his spirit now this is interesting Muhammad said mamita job said that the Quran calls Jesus the word me because Allah said be and he was so Allah said be and he was and this makes him a laws word now that's very interesting because uh according to chapter 16 verse 40 of the Quran that's how Allah creates everything that's how a lot creates me so Allah created me by saying B and according to Muhammad who job that's how you can identify someone as the word of Allah what's that make me I am the word of Allah according to Mohammed had job so if you reject anything I've left if you reject anything I say for the rest of the evening you're guilty of rebelling against Allah's word as far as Islam drying its worship from his basic practices from the pagans of Mecca really notice you can read in the Muslim sources that the pagans are walking these circles and kissing the black stone and so on you can also read that they believed in these seven planetary deities that are circling the earth so you can read all about their worship what you have to believe if you want to reconcile this with Islam's you have to say Abraham set that up walking the seven circles and then the pagans misinterpreted it at some point and they started walking seven circles around the Kaaba for a completely different reason so you'd have to believe that and then as far as the black stone well it was a black stone and then it became part of their pagan worship and then got brought back but keep in mind this is seconds a rock that it's going to appear with eyes and a mouth and you kiss it thank you very much dr. David would [Music] now we're going to enter into our second phase of rebuttals with shape each speaker will have eight minutes each you can go ahead mr. Hamid hey John you mentioned again this issue of Salah Allah and I've told you the difference I don't know why kept repeating him he says person worked fine lives in three minutes yeah he says person this shows you that the sort upper he thinks he says he thinks this means that the chapters of the Quran are persons I wanted always wanted to do this yeah to take a word from Dwayne the rock Johnson it doesn't matter what you think it doesn't matter what you think flock of birds and the man who comes with a pail man yes this is in good deeds and this proves my point once again that the pure of the Quran is what is represented the web you get the rewards for doing the good then it comes that's what the hadith is talking about the man comes in in a good form this is the hadith in Bukhari he says a lateral also a master at the local commerce buds intercession means policies him well mentality has found that 111 me chapter 2 verse 255 over on who will intercede with God except with his permission it's one part of a verse which refutes all of your claims about intercession in fact he says home means mother it doesn't all only mean mother don't tell me about Arabic language you asked me about Arabic language in this in this forum you ask me you don't tell me you ask Muhammad what does the word mean you don't tell me it means this no I tell you it means mother yes it doesn't only mean mother we say Omaha telco tube the the main books it means something foundational Quran says the main city is come on man don't waste my time with this he says he said he actually asked me for something linguistic he said what's the linguistic basis that the Salah what is it what does it come from it's logically the word Salah comes from the word Selah Salah means connection so it could be any connection it doesn't necessarily always have to be prayer and the word actually Salam means do i yes this is the root word but it comes from the etymological root word Selah which means connection it could mean any connection silat or 'him for exam connecting with your family members you don't know these things he says the quran gets the Trinity wrong and he's talking about chapter 5 verse 116 of the Quran where it talks about did you tell your mother that you can take two of us as law - beside God it's not talking about the Trinity in this verse where does it say this is the Trinity and then describe it the only the verses that describe the Trinity for example chapter 4 verse hundred seventy one of the Quran other places the Quran like chapter five with the brother was reading it never tells you what the Trinity is which is why for example many scholars like MJ Mian as a jobber sahi many scholars actually did say the Trinity was the father son in the Holy Spirit but some scholars differed with them in exegesis it doesn't matter there were three in Arabic tell us that means all of the kinds of Trinity's that all of the Christians have ever believed in all of history so the words fellows and Arabic is all comprehensive it doesn't say that the word Trinity is married it doesn't say that the Quran you have light against the Quran and then he says here the raw the Rope of Allah subhana WA Ta'ala this you have to understand basic basic rules of grammar of Arabic Udolpho but not Allah not cut the lemons the coming of Allah is that another person I would help you I would help you it meatball 4 means actually I'm not going to go into it to be honest with you it offer it go to a basic Arabic you know textbook you're wise mobile food logically is the first thing the Arab students learn let's not waste my time with this piece you've come here 20 years of research and it's what you present don't waste my time it says here Islam accidentally deifies Jesus because he is Kelly Mutulu why does the Quran call in the Kalima because it's stressing the fact that Allah said be and yours to make an emphasis a point of emphasis for Christians who believe otherwise and then the pagans pagan sources even given E now realize ladies and gentlemen this man put Christianity under the bus he threw Christianity under the bus today I asked him for questions none of those questions were answered those questions were answered by our minutes la is the Trinity in 300 years if it is a basic natural inference of the Old Testament how could you have 4,000 years of Hebrew history no one has inferred it if it's a natural reading of the New Testament how comes you have 300 years 300 years and no church father believed in 1920 ISM the way that you believe today why are you back projecting anachronistic Allah superimposing this idea that was advanced and crystallized by the Cappadocia in father's in 381 and putting it and forcing it you're the one force again forcing it on the New Testament more egregiously you're forcing it in the Old Testament you have put you have done a shameful service today for the Christians you have not defended Christianity today you should have brought James white with you or someone like that seriously you should have brought someone who could have helped you you are saying me and Adnan and Ali versus you man you should have brought someone with you seriously what's going on here 20 years of attacking Islam 20 years of attacking Islam 99% of your content is anti Islam and all of those things you brought today were dismissed in four minutes you couldn't handle the questioning I gave you four I gave you four questions I did the servicer of answering all of your questions you didn't even answer all of mine how dare you how dare you what is this seriously and the reason why once again I apologize to all the other Christians here why this man has made mockumentaries against Islam he's attacked Muslims aggravated Muslims we know his story he's not any regular Christian ladies and gentlemen the class is less aware the Christians are not all the same if it was James White I would have shown him the utmost respect if it was William Lane Craig I would have shot him the utmost respect if it was any of those guys I would have showed them the utmost respect for this man no no no no no no read the Bible I will teach you the Bible today please stay on topic okay no problem I've got to one minute and a half and I'm pretty much done I can't believe it should I give it as a charity to him I'll give as a charity - you have a minute and a half charity for Muslim - you go ahead starting our second rebuttal 8 minutes dr. David would you may start that's nine and a half he said I got as charity thank you thank you I'd say guys take all the charity all right well I guess we'll start off with the four questions I always I know we had more rebuttal time and I didn't think they were too terribly difficult to answer so let's go through them question number one why is it the Trinity mentioned in the Old Testament well I point out multiple passages multiple passages where you find a plurality and the question is why you have this plurality if it's just this pure monotheism that Muslims believe in i quoted isaiah chapter 48 verse 16 where yahweh is speaking and yahweh says that he has been sent by yahweh along with the spirit of yahweh how do you make sense of that note to be clear that is not that is not a clear statement of the doctrine of the Trinity but to say that these passages refute the doctrine of the Trinity that the Old Testament refutes the doctrine of the Trinity wait a minute we'll keep this time even the go-to verse you have lots of verses that sound like polar ality you have to interpret those away if you don't want to believe that the Old Testament is actually calling for saying that God is plural in some sense but even the go-to passage the Shema which he said it in in the Old Testament and the New Testament that's the go-to verse that's the go-to verse that proves this pure monotheism you know what the neshamah actually says shamalia sorrell Yahweh Elohim Yahweh Akkad now we insert extra words in there to make that a complete sentence what that actually says hear o Israel Yahweh it's name of God hello hey new means our God Yahweh means our that's God one that's what it says here Oh Israel Yahweh Elohim Yahweh one that's what it says names God three times and then says one now this is a Jewish commentary on the Torah wanted to quote this because there's a commentary on the Shema itself the comment taken they say here o Israel Yahweh Elohim Yahweh is one these three are one how can the three names be one only through the perception of faith and the vision of the Holy Spirit and the beholding of the hidden eyes alone now that beef by the way these are Unitarians here but the fact that they're discussing a kind of try unity in the go-to passage for Muslims around the world to say this refutes the doctrine of the Trinity and they're describing it in Trinitarian terms again not the Christian Trinity but try unity of the names there if that's your best you're going to need something better so you find plural throughout the Old Testament in various passages why doesn't the why doesn't God specifically say Trinity well I think it's very similar to what you find when Moses comes along and God says to him Abraham Isaac and Jacob knew me but they did not know me as Yahweh now this isn't just talking about the name is talking about God's character so think about this God is bringing a covenant God is bringing a covenant to the children of Israel with Moses and then he says I'm revealing more about myself than I did to Abraham Isaac and Jacob now think about this according to Mohammed ajob we'd have to say oh well why didn't they know this earlier stuff then why didn't they have the same knowledge well Christians and Muslims believe in progressive revelation God can give more now think about what God did there he's giving a covenant a new covenant back that we call it the old covenant now but back then it was a new covenant he's giving a new covenant and he says giving you a new covenant and I'm going to reveal more about myself to you so according to the Old Testament what does God do when he brings a new covenant well the pattern is he gives them a deeper understanding of who he is so why doesn't the Trinity just clearly define I mean why doesn't the Old Testament clearly define the doctor in the Trinity well in the Old Testament as well Jeremiah chapter 31 a new covenant is coming it's prophesied in the future the big one is coming the big covenant is coming well don't you think God's got some more information in store for the people of the new covenant when this new covenant comes I do and who brings the new covenant well Jesus it's Jesus entering the world and then the Holy Spirit being poured out where we find out about the inner life of God and this is correlated with God's plan of salvation four minutes left so why isn't it clearly mentioned well that's how God works a progressive revelation he does this throughout the Bible he keeps giving them more and more info nation especially when he's giving a new covenant Mohammed ajob says white in the church fathers from the second third century and so on give fourth century descriptions of the doctor of the Trinity nothing about this in the first century the books of the Bible are passed out and they're they're sort of individual books there's not a collection yet so in the first century you've still got books circulating as individual books by the second century they start getting collected let's think about how Christians are there there you've got farmers you've got fishermen and so on you don't have this early on this professional class of theologians that builds up over time and for the first three centuries Christians are and Christianity is an illegal religion and persecuted they can't get together for big conferences to do stuff and to and have and to have discussions like this the first time they're able to get together and have these big these big councils is in the fourth century and that's what they do and it gets ironed out very quickly so the problem as far as what's revealed to the Christians they have revelations about the father about the son about the Spirit these things are given to them one they need the tools of exegesis for saying this is what the Holy Spirit did this is what Jesus did how do we understand the eternal nature of God based on this well that's kind of difficult work to do ladies and gentlemen it's kind of difficult work to do so that sort of thing takes a while and they don't have the terminology how are you describing God being one in essence or nature and three in person they don't have a there's no language to apply to the eternal God they eventually settle on some but that takes time but throughout this father as God Holy Spirit is God son is God this is revealed in Scripture if every church father in the history of the world had gotten it wrong that wouldn't change what the Bible teaches and by the way just imagine if if we're going to be discussing the nature of the Quran or something like this and I said well you know we got Sunnis and Shias and these earlier heretical groups and everyone's getting stuff wrong and so on well it's LOM should be defined by the Islamic sources and the teachings that you could draw from them just like Christianity should be defined by Christian sources question three was who says that the Holy Spirit is co-equal and coeternal which part of he's God don't you understand right if the Holy Spirit is God they say uh where do you say co-equal and coeternal with the Father like later creeds say where does it say where did they say that earlier one minute left he's God if I say the Holy Spirit has the attributes of God you can ask well what about all these later distinctions it became very important to them later on when they're dealing with various kinds of heresies they come up with the terms to respond to the heresy but all of these are based on going back to the scriptures and seeing what lines up with them and finally how can we reconcile the contradiction of the Trinity I don't know what you mean by contradiction contradiction is saying that a statement is both true and false at the same time in the same sense no Christian says that God is one and three in the same sense never met a Christian who said that we say that God is one in essence or being or nature and three in person if you say that's false well I mean think even a slob believes that God is one in one sense or there's one in another way God is one on the level of being more than one on the level of attribute his mercy tramps over his wrath you don't say that's another God why because that's a level of attribute we have the level of person not the Radio Times [Music] that's fine mister her job yep if you want to stay seated for the crossfire that's conclusions no collisions we're actually about to do the crossfire okay questions with so you can go ahead and ask the first question to dr. David Wood and he will have two minutes to respond well let's just start with the questions you didn't answer which church father for the first 300 years explicitly mentioned that the Holy Spirit is co-equal Co eternal with God again from the Bible on the Holy Spirit is God now here's what I don't understand if you take someone like Tertullian or something like this and say who calls the Holy Spirit God and the question then becomes well when did he say he's co-equal or Co he turn what do you think God what do you think these guys mean when they say the Holy Spirit is God what do you think the Bible means the Bible calls him eternal what do you mean koete urn Allah if he's eternal then he's obviously Co eternal with the father so I'm not under it's like you it's like saying if I tell you I am the current president of the United States and you say AHA but where where are you claiming to be Donald Trump well if I claim to be the current president of the United States I would be claiming to be Donald Trump right I don't have to say that other thing right so if you say so and so is God or so and so it has the attributes of God it just doesn't make it just doesn't make sense to say well where is he co-equal with the Father echo this these are one minute these are terms these are terms this is language that was used in later councils to clarify right to clarify I mean I could turn right around say where does the Quran say that the Quran is eternal well that's a conclusion you draw right that's a conclusion you draw from various things that the Quran says it doesn't say that right you have to interpret it that way I don't understand why you can say okay well the Bible says that the father is God the Holy Spirit is God son is God and therefore as far as the essent as far as their essence they're all god they're all Yahweh and therefore in that sense they are co-equal so what you have is later church fathers saying okay if they all share the same essence then in that sense they're co-equal why would they why would you expect someone in the first century to use a word that came about to clarify something in the fourth century I don't know thank you very much dr. bud you may ask your first question in towards mr. ha job yes going back to Allah praying because I'm not just trying to mess with you guys here really I'm really confused right because as I pointed out you have Muslim translators translating passages in the hadith saying that Allah and His creation prays and you look at the Quran and it's using similar word but this is different this is the Quran and you know it's multiple passages and then Muslim translators are translating it as praise and then you have I think it's terma D which which use it and it won't translate as anything it just says a lot of performance it's a lot right they won't say what it means because if you say it means praise and you're going to be confused and if you translated it something else well then you're gonna have to nail down a definition of the word so what should this word mean what should this in the in the Quran and the hadith how should this be translated and why are even Muslim translators now translating his praise if there's this clear other meaning I have two minutes I don't think I need two minutes to be honest with you I think I've dealt with that extensively the world salah solidly Allah is different from so Leela and this these are horrible basically these are certain propositional words that come after the verb and depending on which of those words come it differentiates the meaning completely so because it says Allah Allah and you will never find anyone the Quran verse says leave for example after the Asolo respective syrup of mahon surah Salim linguists and Muslims clearly concludes that it means blessings etc now obviously just looking at the Quran on a cursory level if you read it in English translations of the meanings you'll find that there are certain verses of Quran if you are just if you respect your intellect you will see that it does not tell you to pray to Prophet Muhammad does not because it tells you only let ela he'll and the Quran says Leila allow only God is worthy of worship you know these things so one minute I appreciate that you've come a bit more humble this time and you said I'm confused I hope I hope you have understood this now and if you don't I think we should blame your intellect and your lack of knowledge that's that's that's the state it should be right now but just just to kind of touch upon what you said because I do have a bit of time back so Julian he was a subordination list so Julian was a subordination is he died 240 I don't actually think you read his works I don't believe you read his works his primary source materials all stipulate he does use the language of the 4th century men but he does not use it in the context of the Holy Spirit and so therefore I conclude that so Julian was and that's why he's deemed as a heretic by the Catholics he's and and by the Protestants he's deemed and other people are deemed as heretics so it's a back projection based on later developments of the church and this is something you could not deal with basically in this second in the end in this particular in this particular debate thank you very much mr. job you may go on forward with your second question all right so you spoke about the attributes of you spoke about the attributes of the holy spirit etc I'm just going to give you one example I mean it's a very easy question in mark chapter 13 verse 32 it says only the Father Knows when the hour is now I understand why the son might not know because it's the human sight you see it's the human sight so he you know the god side might know about the human but what about the holy spirit why does the Holy Spirit not know when the hour is [Applause] after two minutes dr. hood well the Holy Spirit is included we have elsewhere that the Holy Spirit searches the mind of God knows everything that God knows if you look at what Jesus is doing there when he says when he says know when he's referring to the level of human beings by the way if you if you guys like that verse that's uh if you believe Jesus said that then Islam is false because notice you've got father and son that according to Quran allows a father to know in the highest relationship you can have with Allah as a slave to master relationship so you believe that then Islam is false but if you look what he says there already he sets up a hierarchy says the day of their time he says no one knows referring to the level of men and then he says not even the angels so that's the entire created order no man knows not even the angels not even the son only the father so even in this verse you're quoting he's putting himself one minute left he's putting himself above all of creation he's putting himself above all of creation and so the question is why wouldn't why would Jesus say that he doesn't know the hour well there's there's a long explanation which I'm not even sure it is correct but usually we would we would explain this in terms giving the easier one here you're interfering with my time here they straightforward one is Christians also believe in the canosa's when Jesus takes on human nature they find this in John one and Muhammad mentioned earlier the the him to Christ in Philippians where it says he was in the form of God but he made himself nothing taking on the nature of a servant and we believe he actually took on the nature of the surface and limited himself in that way if you believe it's a problem by the way I mean think about it the Quran doesn't contain verses that the eternal Quran has and yet you still believe you have the Quran even certain things have been withheld from you so thank you very much doctor would [Applause] you could start your second question right now uh yeah I'm confused by this claim which you made earlier that that Jews Jews have regarded the doctrine the Trinity as polytheism Jews never saw any plurality in the Old Testament that's simply false before the end of the second century AD it was very widespread to see a plurality within the one God this is from Benjamin's summer from the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York who writes no Jew sensitive to Judaism's own classical sources can fault the theological model Christianity employs when it allows belief in a God who has an earthly body as well as a Holy Spirit and heavenly manifestation for that model we have seen is a perfectly Jewish one a religion whose scripture contains the fluidity traditions whose teachings emphasize the multiplicity of the Shekinah and whose thinkers speak of the sefirot does not differ in its theological essentials from a religion question its questioning so if Jewish scholars who are acknowledging that the turn to Unitarianism only arose in the second century as a reaction to Christianity to set themselves against the Christians more how can you say that Jews never saw this when it's widely understood that they did have two minutes thank you for that question he talks about in the last part of his speech the Shama and how it can mean three gods now he's speaking about he spoke about three minutes about Prophet Muhammad spitting I believe you me I I think that generally speaking if you saw if you give your exegetical interpretation to a rabbi I think you would spit at you because I don't think anybody of the Jewish in 4,000 years of Hebrew history has ever believed in what you say that they believed give me one primary source of any Jew that believed in the Trinity one dog give me Benjamin summers is a secondary source material you're meant to come here with academic information and I've always I've only mostly quoted you primary source materials you're an academic you understand how it works in academia give me a primary source material of a Jew who believed three co-equal Co eternal independent beings you will never a persons of a people of one God you will never find this one minute left okay in that minute since to be honest with you I mean it was pretty easy to answers his question actually I'll give it to him man I don't need to I'll give it to I'll give it to him is it my turn to ask yeah okay I'll give you a primary source material Justin Martyr was a was a church father as you know who was very early I think he died 110 or something like that ad and he wrote a book called the first apologies in chapter 21 of this book Justin Martyr was having a conversation with a pagan okay and he said to the person the pagan he said to him that just as you believe that Jupiter is God and there are sons of Jupiter we believe that the father is God and Jesus is the Son of God my question to you is this how can you assure us today that in the first 300 years of Christian history that there has not been a Greek mythological influence in the formulation of the Trinity you have two minutes afterward [Applause] well we we have first century documents right with the the possible exception of Luke they're all devout Jews they had utter contempt for the religions of the pagans of the polytheists the scriptures that they appeal to are the Old Testament these guys were thoroughly Jewish they appealed to Old Testament prophecies they are devout monotheists the the views they came to have about Jesus and the Holy Spirit came from Jesus in the Holy Spirit they didn't go up to Europe and get something about Zeus or something like that so we know where their beliefs came from right the Jesus comes in the world Jesus makes all kinds of claims these guys many of these early Christians went to their horrible bloody deaths proclaiming that Jesus is Lord one minute left if they were just sort of trying to compromise or picking up something they heard in in the market they they wouldn't have to deal with that sort of thing as for as for Justin Martyr now Justin everyone acknowledges that Justin Martyr makes a bad comparison but he's actually appealing to the Rome leaders to stop persecuting Christians making a plea here stop stop killing us stop the persecutions please we're begging you and in this it's well you know we believe Jesus the Son of God you believe in sons of God so why are you guys out here where you why are you guys out here persecuting us you can't draw a tremendous amount of that about our theology coming from them especially when you have Old Testament passages about the Sun the Messiah and the Messiah being the Son and the son being the mighty God thank you very much doctor would you may ask your third question yes Toki [Music] when we look at all the things we have here we have the eternal word of a law which is Co eternal and so he's got his Co eternal work with them we've got a spirit we've got all of these different things going on and then you have the word tell heed to describe it which doesn't simply mean oneness as I understand it's right it so since you're talking about the Arabic here as I understand it comes from Mahad ah which means to unify and therefore tawheed means the unification but if you're unifying something then you're bringing different things together and so if we look and we see these flocks of birds taking the place of the pagan goddesses and interceding for you and things like that could this word tell heed means something beyond oneness here when we see all of these different things if Allah is trying to avoid anything but Touhey and you've got all of these different things and things that are Co eternal with them and interceding flocks of birds how do we reconcile all this okay thank you so here is a we equal a muster in the Arabic language yes you're right to say it comes from the Arabic word Waheeda which means unifying something and it could mean different things in different contexts for sure now the Quran let's look at what the Quran actually says the Quran says cool who Allah who one more time one more time thank you one more time one more time okay okay ahead in Arabic language means the one and only yes there was this difference we were hit and I had warhead could mean something which is cardinally counted there's cardinal numbers one the first second third yes what I hate yeah but a hat can never be so means one and only that's what the Koran says in one of the smallest chapters when you say that the the Quran one minute left the Quran this is this is a must-have okay these are pages and this this is these are pages right we don't believe these pages and this ink is Co eternal we don't believe that John Jennison I'm saying these pages and this think this this is not we don't believe I've never said no Muslim has ever said in history that this is co eternal it's never there not even the martyrs it have said this by the way from Lhasa of not our rights we don't have to say three ad aah so no one has said that what we believe is that the Kalam of Allah which is the words of Allah are an attribute of God without mchb we don't make we don't like in it and that the Quran spoken from Allah is a subset of that attribute that's our belief not this physical thing here that you see where the paper contains we don't believe in that thank you very much miss Punjab for mr. Depp Sark sets forth questions it's a friendly reminder please turn your cell phones off or keep it on silent so it won't distract the speakers thank you very much you may go ahead mr. and job thank you very much the course I have is looking at a lot of your content online in the past week or two I found that seemingly I mean you can correct me if I'm wrong yeah you seem to make a moral case for Christianity in a moral case against Islam I watched one of your videos with someone called Elliot a thin his name was and he made the point if he asks you a question it's on the record he said if Jesus and this what we've been talking about today is the author of the Old Testament if Jesus is the author of the Old Testament how can you explain all of the things which is deemed as immoral because as a divine command theorist I would expect you to believe that all of the things in the Old Testament in terms of injunctions if that had been made by Jesus who is meant to be the author of the Old Testament God the triune God would have been good but you actually said it's bad there are lots of bad deeds these rewards there are lots of bad things in the Old Testament now if Jesus is God and he's the old four author of the Old Testament and he has bad injunctions how can you reconcile the fact that God a maximally perfect good being could give us bad injunctions Doctorow do you have two minutes yeah I don't recall saying bad things I have to take a look at the clip I did acknowledge that there all I said there are all sorts of things in the in the Bible that bother me I do recall saying that and what I mean by that is I'm a philosopher I'm a former atheist when and this would go for the Quran as well when when you know things that passage is talking about Hell or something like that eternal torment or warfare something like that oh those things bother me it doesn't mean I reject that they're from God okay those are I've noticed a mindset in Islam that if you accept Islam you you can never really think critically about it and I I can't I can't be like that so always I'm always wrestling with issues Old Testament and New Testament and with the Quran as well so as far as as far as them the moral case if we're talking about Old Testament passages looking at those things yeah I would say these things are these things they're you know the one minute left entering the land of Canaan and fighting the Canaanites and so on those things those things they make me wonder sometimes but if you believe that Jesus rose from the dead then you have to say okay if Jesus rose from the dead then if I'm going to listen to anyone tell me about God I'm going to listen to Jesus and so if he's Lord then hey if something bothers me that's my problem that's that's my problem that's something I have to wrestle with God accepts that we have to Russell think the Psalms are filled with people really really wondering why certain things are happening and I don't think that's a bad thing and I don't think God thinks it's a bad thing when we look at something and go wow that's really rough now I really wanna I really want to think about that so I don't see that it's any big problem if something bothers me but I'm convinced that I have good reasons to believe in Christianity then 10 seconds I don't really see the problem and that's why I would still accept it because Jesus rose from the dead thank you doctor would you may ask your fourth question yes in the hadith I'm wondering because when Allah says however you want to translate it he says he prays and the angels pray therefore you pray it's like he's setting himself up as a model so however you want to translate that that's not the one I'm not talking about that but he's setting himself up as a kind of model for behavior but in hadith we read Muhammad saying that if you swear by which hadees yeah this question yeah if you swear by anything other than Allah you're committing shirk and setting it up as a partner with Allah so if Muhammad says that swearing by anything is committing shirk and in the Quran Allah swears by literally everything he swears by all kinds of things and then says he swears by the seen and the unseen then if Muhammad says doing this is shirk and Allah then does it with literally everything doesn't this sound more like pantheism then if everything is set up with a partner as a partner with Allah so it's mainly about what sort of things a lot has to do when Muhammad lays down rules like that you have two minutes thank you shift by definition can only be done by other than Allah by definition because it means associating partners with allah that's what that's what shirk is associating partners with Allah so Allah can not it's not within a lot attributes to do it's not possible that's not a possibility right so the question that you ask is about how comes Allah if the person will be had and validly of course maybe Heather always in the world fedorov and oldest he makes equal Qasim he does always in the Quran well Allah even doesn't off by himself a fellow arabica like me noon I had to hack him or give him a shot ever been on so the point is why does Allah have the ability to do to make an oath with anything he wants and we can only make an oath with Allah because Allah owns everything one minute land to allah we belong this is the reality yes oh and the scholars say and the scholars say whatever allah makes an oath off that becomes weaker more of them so on it becomes an important thing in the sharia okay now really truly just to because some muslims might be confused with is it true that if someone does a custom with other than allah that they've committed major this is not the view of the majority of scholars all right so they say that this is a minor kind of just for the filthy things don't make takfeer of your friends they're saying oh my mom's life yes don't do in excommunication of them so that hopefully answers your question thank you you may ask your first question oh yes this really interesting is a follow-up from what you said before because it seems to me that it was not a satisfactory answer you were saying that you were wrestling with with these things in the Bible wrestling grappling in your mind about these things in the Bible in the Old Testament you seem to think that morality yes can be achieved you're a philosopher yes can be achieved from other than an objective noise it is your suggestion that an objective morality can be achieved from other than the objective law so I want to understand as a are you divine command theorists do you believe that the injunctions of God must be perfect and if if you do believe this how can you explain and you did say bad it can easily be retrieved on the internet I listened to it just yesterday you said the Old Testament has bad things in it you said this yes how can you explain that a maximally perfect good God at one point and time put forward injunctions which could be bad or which otherwise bother you can you explain them have two minutes doctor would Oh I mean if you mean hey you know there's all kinds of really bad things going on in the Old Testament yes very very bad things going on in the Old Testament right it's a history right but I mean you you could take any history book and say oh look at all these bad things going on if you mean that things you know that did I say well you know hey you know I'm wondering about this that's not just me I mean I'm a diagnosed psychopath right I don't have I don't have bad feelings about these kinds of things the reconciliation is that in the New Testament God is defined as love right we're told God is love which we only understand in a Trinitarian it makes no sense for God to be loved from all eternity but in the light of the doctrine of the Trinity with Father Son and Holy Spirit now we can see how God can be loved from all eternity not just not just one person within God so if Jesus says that we're told that that God loves everyone women left that we are to love everyone that we are to harm no one that we are to seek peace with everyone we're told these then I have to obey these kinds of things and so the difficult part the difficult part then becomes what would I do about these Wars and so on given what I now believe about God and so that's where the struggle comes in fortunately the bible does deal with that right jesus says jesus says Moses allowed divorce in these certain in these circumstances because of the hardness of your heart but from the beginning it was not so now look at what he said here this is not the will of God God is allowing certain things at certain times because of the hardness of your heart so even according to the Bible that is not the ideal situation that is not in silence will for Humanity God looks down and sees a world of sinners and then has to deal with that right and it's not always it's not always going to be pretty but the New Testament affirms that the situation's in the Old Testament were not always ideal thank you doctor would you may ask your fifth question yes chapter 61 verse 14 of the Quran Allah says that he aided the true followers of Jesus until they became uppermost now I suppose you can interpret that in different ways commentators such as Yusuf Ali interpreted it specifically to mean that Christians the Christian followers of Jesus took over the Roman Empire and that that's how they that's how they became uppermost and and more powerful than the Jews who rejected Jesus but we know that the Christianity that took over Europe took over the Roman Empire believed in Jesus death resurrection and deity and the Trinity by the time they did and so why would Allah help the wrong Christians if there were earlier Christians who believe the right thing why did Allah help the wrong ones according to the Quran according to the Quran thank you according to the Quran the disciples of Jesus the how are you were Muslim this is the answer okay the Quran says about the Haroon in Chapter three of the Quran fish had been now Muslim moon let us know let we bear witness that we are Muslims meaning what not that they believed in Prophet Mohammed know that they were submitters to God in the same way that Jesus wasn't John chapter 5 verse 30 I don't submit myself to my own will but the will of God so why did Allah help the hilarion in sort of stuff in chapter 61 of the Quran also the al Imran chapter 3 of the Quran because they followed Jesus and he was a prophet of God and so therefore Allah he helped them because he they followed the true prophet at that time and that true prophet which we believe in as the Messiah was Jesus Christ so it was nothing to do with the Roman Empire this stuff's here is null and void you will not find this anyway all sorts of stuff this thing about the Roman Empire no no this one you will not find this in poverty you will not find this in code to be you not find this in Lucas here you will not find this in any of them a more fastidious works it is something I don't know what you've got it from but here is the the initial point is that the how are you the disciples we have a good opinion of them yes and that is why I say to you and I've been saying to you for the for the whole discussion you will not find a polish apostolic succession for your beliefs as a Christian you will not find apostolic you will not find an open Stronach provenance back to Jesus Christ for what you believe you have to go further back in time you have to back project you have to take the ideas of the later people and basically and in Islamic terms make it up there you have to render heretical the earlier people we as Muslims we believe that the earlier peoples of the prophets were the best and then they became worse as it goes on to us Christians believe in the opposite and that's a disaster of a belief [Music] Thank You mr. Harib and you may ask her sixth and final question related to this I want to just ask this question one last time because I've given him many times in this debate an opportunity to us this question okay my question is simple I appreciate that early church fathers believed that Jesus was God some of them did believe that some of them believed he was God but not co-equal that he was in a hierarchy some of them believed he was God but not in the same level as like subordination isn't right I am asking a question if they could designate Jesus as God's co-equal and coeternal and they used that language respective to Jesus can you give me one person who has interpreted the New Testament yeah for in the first 300 years who has said the same thing about the Holy Spirit because if you cannot the frank truth is you have a baseless foundation for your belief for 300 years people would have been the farmer as you know what the farmer the fisherman the you know the butcher the teacher all of those individuals are damned to hell despite the fact that they had the Gospels in front of them because they couldn't make the natural inference of the Holy Spirit being God can you give me one person church father first 300 years who designated the Holy Spirit as co-equal Co eternal independent the same language that they use in Isaiah for the Holy Spirit please do so I'm shocked that people still take this you're who called the Holy Spirit Co attorney the Bible calls him eternal the Bible calls him eternal that language that specifically he said here's a counsel in the fourth century that came up with a specific way of phrasing things well that was to help people avoid confusion here so if we're saying that the Holy Spirit is God father is God the Son is God if this is revealed in Scripture there's only one God guess what that's what they were believing time if someone objects at some point and says I believe that the Holy Spirit is not eternal well then in your Creed you need to clarify hey this guy doesn't know what he's talking about the Bible says that he's eternal so he's Co eternal with the father and so they put it in a Creed just to be clear Creed's have no authority beyond the scripture one minute left there's this scripture but it's a lot it's 66 books covers 1500 years 40 different authors right there are threads running throughout the scripture right the purpose of the Creed is to say here's a little short list of the essentials here's a short list of the essentials to make sure that you're on the right side of being an Orthodox Christian and so I put a little Creed there just because oh so-and-so is coming to a different position and he's contradicting the Bible therefore we need to make we need to make sure we mentioned Co eternal here right but the Co eternal does not come from the counsel the Co eternal comes from the Bible right and all of the claims about the Equality of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit those come from the scripture acknowledging them all as Yahweh 10 seconds and so you're basically saying hey why are you using language of clarification later on that you didn't use earlier well the earlier people have said we understand he's God so [Music] before we start our QA each speaker will have five minutes for that inclusions anyway he started why shouldn't I what's that no no I mean he started with the question so oh yeah I wasn't counting so I wasn't counting but you have the six questions there's one final question okay this is kind of a side issue but I was wondering about it because uh Mohammed you mentioned the Ebionites as early as an early group who didn't believe in the deity of Christ the Ebionites as I understand them we're a group they didn't have the Bible they only had parts of the Gospel of Matthew so they had parts of the Gospel of Matthew and in that part of the Gospel of Matthew even have the beginning but they also rejected the virgin birth they didn't believe that prophets actually got revelations from God the prophets spoke on their own wisdom so if we're taking the Ebionites as the true followers of Christ here what we have to reject Islam as well okay thank you now I've never made the claim that the Ebionites are the true followers of Christ that's something you have said that's not something I've said I've just made the point that they had the Islamic position on two aspects the non divinity of Jesus Christ and the non divinity of the Holy Spirit now they didn't have the Bible do you know why because they came before Jordan they came on 70 AD John came 95 AD [Applause] I don't know what to say they only had the Gospel of Matthew because only Mark Matthew and Luke the synoptic Gospels were available to them they had those synoptic Gospels now the thing is when you when you talk about what they actually believed in I gave you a primary source material Hippolytus he said who was the student of the rainiest and who was a student of Justin Martyr and who taught origin of clamp origin of Alexandria he said in against the heresies chapter xxii what they believe you can go and check it if you don't believe me it's a primary source material now one minute left I've got a minute I will use a minute now the point you said here about the Holy Spirit is absolutely null and void you know how many things in the Bible are coded our eternal look at mill Chizik the mill Chyzyk he didn't have a mother it didn't have a father in the book of Hebrews he was eternal bring you into the Trinity bring him into the Trinity today bring him into the Trinity today if that's your only parameter if that is the only thing you have you said God just because something is referred to as cos in the Greek it must be a co-exist Co eternal then bring Paul in bring the devil in because they're called Theo's as well [Applause] now as it relates to how long of all left okay as it relates to the Holy Spirit gregory of nazianzus and gregory of nyssa they blow in church documents primary source materials you can check the website many prophets one message it has all the references they quote we didn't know people were disputing about what the Holy Spirit is some said it was a creature some said it was God some said was this some said it was that we did not know that's what they said it's not an argument from Silence I'm making it's an argument from evidence thank you very much good job dr. wood you may start your five-minute conclusion or switching well thank you thank you again a couple side notes here who says the Ebionites for to earlier our earliest reference to the EB Knights was from 140 of course they they they could be earlier but the point is these were people who had one part of one gospel and there were certainly there were certainly the rest of the Gospels around during the time but they are they're regarded as a radical offshoot of Judaism so to lay them down as authoritative again these are these are guys who didn't believe that prophets spoke from God they didn't believe in the virgin birth and so on so these guys are the closest to the true Jesus then we have to reject the Islamic Jesus they said no kids it echoes eternal now you have to understand what what the author of Hebrews is doing there he's talking about the descriptions right we don't have really time to go into this if someone wants to bring it up in the Q&A ask about Melchizedek when we can actually go what he's doing that he was not saying that Melchizedek Melchizedek is eternal certainly not claiming that so and the last point just because something is called a God in Scripture doesn't mean it's a you know it has divine attributes and is not God yes we understand the term they us in the the term Elohim and the Old Testament can mean various things the question is how are these terms used of Jesus how are these terms used of the father how are these terms used of the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit is creating the world in the Bible the Holy Spirit is eternal in the Bible so they just brush that off and say one of the things are called gut yeah not in the same not in that way right you could say oh those are false gods they're you're calling them you're saying they're their gods in some way you're using the term but you're not applying it seriously when we have Father Son and Holy Spirit these are used seriously of Father Son and Holy Spirit so as far as what we have what we have tonight again we see in the Old Testament we see from the opening verses of the book of Genesis and throughout the Old Testament various claims of plural within the one god Jewish commentators have mentioned this modern experts in Judaism acknowledged that prior to the end of the second century where the Jewish community swung very hardly in a Unitarian direction there was widespread agreement in the Jewish community and Muhammad had job how did he respond well show me where they say co-equal Co eternal father son holy snow one's claiming they knew that the point was you think they had this towhee dish belief and they just didn't write what did what did the scholar say and what do various Jewish scholars say that's the doctrine that Christians believe in would have fit in very comfortably with what Jews prior to the second century at Finan there would have been nothing therefore for a Jew to claim about to complain about in terms of theology they would reject they wouldn't reject it by saying oh that's a confusing doctrine of God is the point they say we reject Jesus as the Messiah that would be the main complaints of Jews during the time and what have we seen on the other side right and here's what's interesting Christians have a lot of data right we have the Old Testament passages we have Jesus coming into the world and we see the various things that Jesus did and the claims he made and since he rises from the dead we have to take those claims seriously so when he's claiming to be the final judge of all mankind or when he's claiming to be the one who raises the dead at the resurrection we recognize the kinds of claims that he's making and then when we find various claims about the Holy Spirit we take those seriously and we say all right everything that God has revealed to us we have to take seriously and the only way to take it all seriously is with something like the doctrine of the Trinity one minute left we turn to Islam and we find all kinds of things that are just confusing right you know I talk about a lot praying and uh it means sending blessings they're perfectly you say but occur right we know how to say that why does he use the word that's prayer so much so confusing so confusing that even Muslim translators are now translating it as Allah pray of different circumstances a lot praying for self-control so that his mercy can triumph over his wrath and we find this over and over again that you have an eternal word that there is a spirit that proceeds from within Allah that you have a man that his followers were we're drinking his blood all of these things if we said again goddesses are interceding with you with Allah you would say polytheism but the Quran is doing in the form of birds who know things who talk and it's pure mana ten seconds left and so when we see this over and over again Islam looks like it's trying to copy Christianity but just doing a really bad job of it thank you very much dr. word five minutes David wood has been more interested or more concerned with trying to disprove Islam today than defending Christianity he talks about the EBN accent as being a radical offshoot this is a historic way of rendering history one man's Orthodox is another man's heresy gospel Gospels he says in one other time he says the Gospels were not present at the time of the church father this is a lie or a missed reading one with misunderstanding he should be reading his primary source materials almost all of them refer to the four Gospels all of the major Church Fathers referred to the four Gospels let's say from Justin March onwards 100% this is something well known look at their works Athanasius he's the one who made it a short list of what is going to be the Bible right he made a short list in mid 4th century the 27 books of the Old Testament now the question we could ask is who gave him the authority to do that to include in God's Word to take out of God's Word this is God's Word this is not good why is the Gospel of Thomas not in the Bible why is it he's making the decision it then became quite popular it was an organic thing it wasn't in the council that these are the 27 books of the Old Testament that's another issue when we talk about the Bible what are we really talking about there's issues with the Bible there is no chain going back to Jesus everything that we have called a hadith an authentic hadith has a chain going back to poor Muhammad or Allah and that's what you don't have and that's why our books are preserved and yours are not that's another issue he says he believes in progressive revelation in the Oh in the New Testament or light that's very good you know why because I agree with him on this point I want to end with this I agree with him I believe he's right yes the bible does talk about a progressive revelation which is why it talks about the upcoming prophet and that's why if you read isaiah 42 ask answer me this ruin history has come to the kaito right there arabs has made the people of Celle the mountaintops rejoice who in history went to the arabs and made the arabs rejoice defeating his enemies in military warfare and this is not something we're shy about by the way this is something we're very proud of very proud of this is something we're very proud of because our prophet is a winner and military winner it's part of his prophecy that he was going to do that that's what Deuteronomy chapter 18 says that there was going to be one of the ways to tell a true prophet is through prophecy every single one of the prophets Muhammad's prophecies came true look at the Quran it's a way Christian an honest Christian could come to terms who is this man of mohammed salah salem do the research were like he's right there is progressive revelation why it did not end with jesus it continued to perform mohammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam and that is why in the Quran it doesn't mention progressive revelation hot tip in the beam is the final prophet if you really want salvation well lie all that said and done 20 years of attacking Islam documentaries you know making fun of Prophet Muhammad dressing up as a woman and these things no problem well I I believe I'm speaking on behalf of all the Muslims here yes I will forgive you and the Muslims will forgive you if you repent today I will forgive you in the Muslim we will forgive you if you repent today I want to give you one piece of advice sorry I'm just making corn I want to pick I want to give the Muslims and my concluding speech one piece of advice which is you'll find that in 1st Peter chapter 3 verse 15 that someone asks you a question you know about what you what you hope you know then speed speak to them respectfully yes honorably respectfully mocking Muslims you know dressing like them and these things that's not respectful be like James why be like William Lane Craig we can have we can have more fruitful cohesion in our communities man we want to have cohesion we as Muslims I'm putting that yes I'm putting the olive branch now to the Christian community we don't want it we will never the Francis well that's a super late in a Down Avenue life is over I don't do very I chapter 6 108 do not curse their gods we're not allowed to curse the gods or other people the Bible is the same ladies and gentlemen the Bible says don't don't cuss look at first Peter chapter 3 verse 15 don't curse us don't mock us because like today you will be shown the truth in a very harsh manner you'll be shown the truth in a very very embarrassing manner and that is the reality ladies and gentlemen come humbly turns out you've come humbly and you'll be received humbly give us your hand and we will shake it only if you respect us in the first place boss salam aliekum wa rahamtullah again [Applause] thank you very much mr. job we would like to thank both of our speakers we're gonna start taking the questions right now so for any questions for dr. wood for him on the right any questions for dr. and mr. hijab for him over here please no doctor yet is here oh okay give me okay Oh what are the rules [Music] I want to make sure that the question no I mean about like time and stuff like that don't just sort of like that if we can all be try to be as quiet as we can we're gonna start our Q&A right now isn't working testing thanks first question is going to be to brother head job on the right over here this is for brother head job this any questions for mister hijabi to start over here questions for mr. haire job just to clarify questions were missing her job over here question for dr. would would be over there we'll start the first question he's going to do too is the mic working okay okay please if we can stay as quiet as possible so we can hear the question so one thing that doctor would a lot of multiple times during both your intro your Buttle as well as your conclusion was the fact that Muslim scholars claim that companions during the prophets blood with your level of intellect I mean with dr. Woods level of intellect and profession I'm sure you're well aware of one of the most basic teachings of Islam which is regarding our diet which is halal and Haram we're forbidden to eat anything or drink any type of blood in any form if you you know have any doubt you can look at sir 6 I have 145 so you know with the claim above us Muslims Karl scholars saying that the Prophet the Companions did indeed drink the prophet's blood can we get one incredible name that of a scholar that did in fact say that [Applause] I'm having trouble hearing hairdo can you repeat like no generates a collision was missing shooting there's a verse in the Quran that stated that drinking blood or eating any type of planet yes so she she asked if you can provide an actually proven scholar that states that the that the Sahaba or the Companions actually drank the blood of the Prophet is that it was that question yes that that was the question so no I'll give you the source okay go you want to another floor see what take it down don't worry about this oh that that's uh that's in that's in Scottie Illya I'm sorry Cuddy Illya I can give you the I think the reference like okay so this is a Shiva by gaudí Elliott has mohammed IBN saud halakhah described related that I said to the Prophet when you come from relieving yourself we do not see anything noxious from you he said I should do not know that the earth swallows up what comes out of the prophets so that none of it is seen although this tradition is not famous the people of knowledge still notice the people of knowledge still mention the purity of his feces and urine there was also the time when Malik Hibbins and N and drank his blood on the day of hood and licked it up the Prophet allowed him to do that and said the fire will not touch you so this is pages 35 through 37 of sg5 thank you very much dr. wood next question for mr. job god hi some good debate things you probably debate you kept saying that there was no apostolate succession for the Trinity and basically until the Nicene the council I seen there was nothing about the Trinity no but no French father has said anything between Jesus's death and three hundred men whatever ad or whatever that occurred one question for you then can you name one person between 33 AD and 583 ad who said anything about Islam because there was no apostolate succession for Islam either so it was the exactly what he's saying can you can you think he was basically saying that if you could mention if you can mention a source from 380 33 8 d 33 they told me Jesus's crucifixion so about the time of 583 ad win when your prophet began he said yeah please but he was started in fighting with him you can actually speak into this they might just need to turn that mic up high so I was asking you you know one of your core if questions were you know what's the apostolate succession between the Trinity Trinity there was nothing mentioned by the church fathers between Jesus's crucifixion and the council tonight may seem can you mention one person historically who has talked about the possible succession of Islam between 33 AD and 583 ad when your prophet began when my prophet began long ago I don't get it sorry what were you think he's basically asking for a reference from 33 82 583 to 5 a very well if it was mentioned that the prophecy Islam was coming what sorry guys I'm really I'm not doing it on purpose a source where or any-any is he talking about Islam or Christianity he's talking about Islam ok 33 8 D so if a deeds not it's like I know I know it was there reference that it's not something to portray that would say that it's not is coming okay it's landing submission there's a reference to that in the Bible John chapter 5 verse 30 because it says I don't submit myself to my own will but to the will of the Father is Islam linguistically that's what Islam means so that's in the Bible we don't need to go to 33 AD is out it's alright I mean is that a question yeah yeah sorry one more view one more time I'm not understanding the question you're saying that there's there's nothing about the Trinity between 33 AD and about the the council of nicaea this is the props of your argument or one of the things you said the most yeah but by that same definition we have nothing between 3380 that sticks anything about anything what not anything the crown for most of things in the crop or Islam yes okay as Muslims we don't believe that the Quran was revealed to Jesus we believe it was revealed to Prophet Muhammad right so obviously the Quran because it was not revealed to Jesus it would be no reference to it because it was a final Testament that came afterwards you see so when I made my argument I wasn't I did not make the argument that the Trinity was not mentioned yeah the Trinity was mentioned by Tertullian I did I mentioned that I mentioned the Nicean Trinity of 381 and after that which stipulates very specific parameters as to what the Trinity is and what the Trinity isn't that was my argument yes so I didn't say the Trinity is not there in the first where the 300 years I said then I see and Trinity wasn't there that's what it's Latin my my point was that if you don't believe that Jesus is divine you don't believe that the Holy Spirit is divine like many money Arkin it monarchists and even I didn't believe then by definition you believe there's only one God worthy of worship right and if that if that's what you believe then you're a Muslim in a sense because you you're submitting yourself to one God so from that perspective I think the case can be made thank you thank you [Applause] one question over there for dr. wood alright so um can you hear me properly dr. wood I just want to make sure a little bit all right I don't know if I'm in a bad spot that's the only mic I could hear really well just loud am I better now all right so my question is regarding the equality among the Trinity so in Matthew 28 verse 18 Jesus says that all authority is giving to him and on in the heavens and on earth and then in John chapter 16 verse 13 it states that but when the spirit of truth comes he will be he will guide you into all truth for he will not speak on his own authority but he will speak on what he hears so if the Holy Spirit is God why doesn't he have any authority to speak thank you if you look at if you look at how the Gospel of John is using these terms it's the the emphasis in these passages is not is not that the Holy Spirit is not God or that Jesus is not young he's trying to show that there they are one in other words in John chapter 5 right Muslims love to bring out John chapter 5 where Jesus says of my own self I can do nothing check-check we're good says of my own self I can do nothing they say aha right there which is parallel to the spirit doesn't speak on his own on his on his own authority right if you look at what's actually going on there at the beginning of John I mean earlier in John chapter 5 because Jesus is calling himself the Son and saying that he can work on the Sabbath because the father does notice Jews are not allowed to work on the Sabbath Jesus says but the Father works on the Sabbath and so do I right when he said that they accused him of claiming to be another God right he's a rogue deity he's a separate so what he does there and the rest of John chapter 5 that's where he claims to that he's the one who raises the dead at the resurrection he says that he's the one who is the final judge and he says that we have to honor him just as we honor the father right so keep in mind we have to you would only honor someone the same way you honor the father if he has the same nature nature and attributes as the father so when he says when he says that he can do nothing of himself or when the Holy Spirit does not not speak on his own authority what these are saying is they don't do these things separately as separate deities from the Father because that's the accusation as soon as you start saying some things are divine they start accusing of saying there's other gods so the emphasis is he doesn't do this on his own all right thank you very much dr. wood we're past the halfway mark right now and q8 so we're gonna try to speed it up as much as we can so we'll limit each answer to one minute for both speakers so I think the next question is for mr. hi Jeff and go heavens big yes I have a question for mr. headshop I was wondering since the thrust of your argument hinges on David's inexpert flaw knowledge of Arabic don't you think it's a little odd that the will of God can only be discerned by people who speak in his own Taric language spoken by less than 5% of the population or population and which has many dialects and isn't even spoken by the majority of self-professed muslims and what do you think of the fact that there are people who are very learned in Arabic who even born in Arabia who have the same epistemological morose scientific and historical critiques of the Quran thank you a question the question was about the Arabic language of the Quran and you were saying that is it is it the case that only Arabs can access the Quran in a nutshell is it why is it that only 5% of the population can access this and the rest cannot now there's a difference between understanding the fundamentals of a religion yes and trying to do X Jesus yes exegesis is when you try hermeneutic ly to go into the text and understand it holistically and for that you require language ability for that you require whether you're doing with the Bible or the Quran you require to have some kind of ability to understand the language otherwise your hermeneutic will be necessarily limited now just quickly as I do have a little bit of time answering the question or the point on on John that that David talks about Don John Chapman second John chapter 10 verse 34 Jesus clearly says why did you call me God I mean they were about to stone him when he said this and he's really is referencing Psalms 82 so if you really believe this God then why is he saying didn't didn't you say this of old like you are God's new er gods in other words it's a language of the people and that's one of the biggest problems server sorry sorry holy good you can go ahead question for dr. wood I have one question for you it has three co-equal parts but I assure you that it's just one question try to keep it to one we're trying to get as much instance three is one you can ask it would you agree that the concept of the Trinity has evolved over time what do you say about Revelation chapter 22 verse 18 to 19 where it says I warn everyone who hears the word of the prophecy of this book if anyone adds to them God will add to him the plagues described in this book its etc etc etc and can you explain Matthew chapter 7 verses 21 to 23 where Jesus says I never knew I never knew you get away from me well there he says not everyone who says not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but only those who do the will of my father so he will say I never knew you I don't understand what what the problem is there Jesus calls himself Lord but he's saying not even not to you don't just call him Lord and then and then you're fine moves the other part what do you would you agree that the concept of Trinity has evolved over time oh no the clarification of the concept right whether you're talking about the Quran whether you're talking about the Bible you have historical events you have revelations from prophets statements and so on and if you're coming up at the Creed you're trying to clarify it you're trying to make it as concise as possible so yeah they had to cook they had to figure out how to say things in using certain terms in language but matryona God is eternal right the triune God is eternal our our descriptions our descriptions may take time but that's not it that's not the Trinity evolving that's our concepts being clarified and what about the third part where I said what do you say about revelation chapter 22 verse 18 to 19 where it says I want everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book if anyone adds to God will add to him the plagues described in this book etc etc well the book of Revelation it the author I didn't know he's gonna be writing last book of the Bible he's talking about his prophecy his prophecy and book of Revelation don't take my prophecy and add a bunch of words to them so he's just saying hey don't head to my prophecy here and act like it's my prophecy that doesn't mean you can't clarify concepts right so thank you very much question for mr. hijab yes a question for mr. David I'm sorry I have question if I'm I still work for mr. would would have to take questions on the surface at first anyone wants answers go ahead Louis up I had a question for you yes are you certain that you will be going to heaven Janna as according to Islam says you yourself know does that concern you maybe David will go to heaven and I will go to hell that's a possibility you know I mean I as a Muslim I can't guarantee and you know Christians say Christians say that you know god this is one of the arguments that you can't guarantee you it's off the kingdom of heaven yeah yeah that's true that's true that what why is that amount to the falsity of Islam I mean what logical reasoning is that anyways the point is say for instance you're a Christian and you believe that if you're a Christian you're going to go to heaven but even according to your own belief system there is a possibility a logical rational possibility that for instance you'll die upon Hinduism or atheism or do Judaism and in which case you will have to you have to conclude that you cannot be perfectly sure that you're going to heaven because that would mean that you have perfect knowledge of the future and not only do you not have that perfect knowledge not it not even the Holy Spirit had that knowledge thank you very much mr. Knab you may ask you question to dr. wood are y'all quick yeah he said in the beginning that the guard was in the heaven and he was his the spirit was hovering up over the heaven and it was a mystery and the mystery was supposed to be revealed but it went on more into dark that mystery never got explained if I am if I'm pushed towards the Living God to be a mystery it will be Hinduism when God comes to multiple incarnations to earth in order to fix people does that mean Christianity is a subset of Hinduism what it claims Jesus came as a incarnation of God [Music] if in Hinduism it is a common belief that God comes as incarnations and I suppose you also believe that Jesus came as incarnation of God onto the earth to fix people and to teach the morality does that mean Christianity is a subset of Hinduism in terms of its beliefs no you can't say anyone who believes in an incarnation is a subset of Hinduism if someone who has never heard one single thing about Hinduism which would have been first century Jews believed in an incarnation has nothing has nothing to do with with Hinduism just because you have some sort of parallel in some way like oh but there are many religions that believe in rising from the dead I mean they all stole it from each other so no right next question for mr. job yeah oh yeah guys thank you for coming thanks Danika Mohammed and yeah so my question is like there's a question that Divi dude asked about the fact that the Quran says that Bob sorry oh the Quran says that the followers of Jesus was supposed to be uppermost and so like I was wondering what you are understanding of that is because I thought that them being uppermost would be that they're the ones who are going to overcome over the disbelievers and so we obviously know that Chris the Christians who were there during Muhammad's time we lived in the Trinity and so like I was just wondering what happened to Jesus's disciples according to Islam and why did they why were they not able to counter the faults yes disciples about this as well jululu ladina Tabaka focal Edenic of Iliamna p.m. talking about the Howard Ian it says that we're going to make them higher than those who have disbelieved until the day of judgment yes so it's talking about the disciples of Jesus we believe that those early Christians were on the truth let me repeat the Quran says very clearly that those Christians will go to heaven those Christians will go to heaven they believed in Christ they were follows Christ they believed in his law etc now there's a difference now as a point of demarcation between the early Christians the disciples and then the church fathers and those who came up to those so the point is as Muslims our Creed is we believe Jesus was innocent of all of this that his followers were innocent of all of this and that he and that they are people who are honored in Islam and whoever says anything wrong about the disciples in Islam has left Islam because of something in Islam yes which is very clear it's a clear point of a feeder for us yes if anyone curses the the Hawaii on the disciples this is covered because Allah he says Virgil which means disbelief Virgil Medina at about a focal Edina control a abou camera at the same time a lots of merit Allah says Allah cut Khafre Ladino Kahlo innallaha hulusi have no Marion the ones who say that Jesus is gone they are disbelievers as well so it can't be both ways can't be both thank you very much one question for dr. wood before I begin David Wood said that the Companions of the Prophet deified the Prophet well when he died Abu Bakr told the people that he told the people that the Prophet has passed away but God is alive and he can never die Sahih Bukhari book 64 hadith 472 now before that was just a clarification my question is in the Old Testament God says he is not a man Hosea 11 9 and he is not the son of a man numbers 23:19 and he has full knowledge psalms 147 Jesus is a man he calls himself the son of man and he doesn't know everything Christians will say that was before he took on the body and he took on the attributes of man but doesn't this contradict Malachi 3:6 where the Lord says he does not change [Applause] I was like 12 things you know it was one thing try to answer whatever you can all right as far as yell we understand that Muhammad has died that the problem is that Islam keeps taking these things like the black stone and the Kaaba and Mohammed and treating them in a way that is far beyond what you would expect for a mere creation so yes I understand you know Mohammed died and is not a God in that sense I'm saying they're showing reverence that should never be shown to a mere human being as far as God not being a man or the son of man have you looked what's what's being said there God is asked to change his mind he said God is not a man that he should that he should change his mind so it's saying his character is not going to change which is the same thing you find in Malachi God is not going to change his character or in that way it doesn't mean God can never do something different in some way or that God can't can't enter creation he starts enters creation repeatedly in Genesis right he walks in the garden with Adam so he appears to Abraham so God does that's not what they're talking about as far as as far as God changing house the best I could do in one man one question from a surgeon job yes the Prophet Muhammad is a lever Salam uses the Bible as his basis to validate his prophethood especially in the words of Jesus Christ when Jesus Christ said I'm going to the Father and now sent to you a comforter the Spirit of Truth like one of your famous apologists and making that refers to that scripture as the validation for prophet muhammad's like prophethood now what do we make of what Jesus Christ said emphatically to his disciples that they should go and wait upon him in Jerusalem and then the spirits will come on them and in the book of Acts we witness a spectacle where the holy spirit comes to the disciple as cloven tongues on fire and we see a significant transformation from in the lives of the disciples and from death even the Roman government could not resist the power and the demonstration of the Holy Spirit at work in the disciples and over the years Christianity has spread not by sword but by the demonstration of the love power of the Holy Spirit how do we reconcile these demonstrations of the just one request after this we're gonna have to sing just two more questions and try to keep your questions like like you know as simple as possible all because you know we're trying to take as much place as I can but you know it's impossible with you stretching the questions like that because we have limited time so okay so there are a few points the first thing he said it's about taking the Bible as an authority yes the Quran says the in GD that told up but the original one center of Moses and Jesus and the evidence of that is chapter 5 verse 46 where it talks about Feiner embodying the item in the miriam and then it goes well yeah bima anzala avi the lamb here is a lamb Talia al Ghul Toby says this meaning it goes back to the previous passage and the next verse chapter five verse 48 says well mo Haman and Ali that the Quran is a guardian over the Bible yes this book is a guardian over this so it's an authority in as much as it does not contradict the Quran according to the Quran now that's point one point two about Christianity not being spread by the sword is a misreading of history actually if you look at Constantine and the Theodosian code actually the only way Johnse spread through the Roman Empire was through the sword look at the primary source material but the three billion code from Philadelphia videos is the second he enforced Nicean trinitarianism by force according to all of the historians across the whole of the Roman Empire until the pagan religions of the Romans were completely dissipated not to mention of course colonialism not to mention of course the Spanish the colonists not to mention of course one of the biggest one of the biggest casualties in war in human history yes one of the biggest was when the Spanish Empire and the French Empire and the British Empire spread it's your country in Africa it spread it everywhere don't tell me wasn't spread by the sword by the sword why are you talking about the difference between Islam and Christianity in this regard was a slam spread organically whereas Christianity required a man was an empire at that time spreading forcefully we fought as Muslims the bigger enemy you were the bigger enemy fighting the smaller people that's the difference don't tell me about these things this is a long history history thank you brother he's out for your answer to your question for dr. wood dr. wood it's an honor to be here I want to first thing speak closer to my place I want to first thank you I converted to Christianity this year January 1st and part of it was because of their answers that you have given me so thank you I've watched a lot of your debates with shivir le and others mister the job is talking about William Lane Craig and how respectful they are but I mean if this doesn't work out maybe you can do some stand-up comedy but you asked me you asked somebody asked about not kids attack so could you please explain who Melchizedek was in the Old Testament thank you Oh with Melchizedek well we're down to one minute now but if you look at what the author of Hebrews is doing he's saying that the Jews already had their own priesthood the Levitical priesthood but the Messiah is going to be from the order of Melchizedek so he basically says what are the differences in the descriptions in Scripture he this is a guy who reads some kind of codes into the Bible right he's looking for codes in the scripture they took this very seriously so he says what's the difference in the description textually between Melchizedek and and Levi and that's going to tell us something about the Messiah so he starts doing this haha well we have a genealogy for Levi we have none from his attacker right and so he starts going down the list and then he draws a meaning out of it he's not actually saying that he's eternal or something like that he's saying according these passages we can learn something and his conclusion is that the Messiah is eternal not that not that not that Melchizedek is thank you thank you doctor so mr. president I'm sorry mr. president mr. president so this is the final question yes okay of course okay yeah a question for Mohammad hijab yeah a you sir have been complaining that David were mocked Muslims sorry you have complained that means they would have mocked Muslims yeah and you have been mocking him all night okay that's right my question goes around to Authority you have been attacking the authority of Christians on which a Thor 'ti we base our faith on Trinity sorry yes okay and you see this like you believe in church more than Christians do and let me tell you why because you asked for church authorities Church scholars Christians who have somehow in certain time talk about the Trinity let me tell you and teach you something about Christianity tonight I'm willing to learn from you number one is Jesus Christ our authority is the Bible so when we sign scriptures we're citing a lot more than Augustine that you worship okay can you put the cookies there word is that Genesis 1:26 a woman can speak air here right okay so much I posed a question go ahead 1:26 says then God said let us make my kind in our image in our likeness and 27 says so God created mankind in his own image in the image of God he created them male and female he created them God is speaking by himself sir okay he's wrong question and he calls himself him verse so either you believe in Genesis you will be Moses which wrote the Genesis or you don't believe in you're a bad Muslim [Music] and there's got the question to answer you of your face I want to understand how that you claim authority on Muhammad yep who had among multiple wives at what Asia house on six years old according to others please please settle down I want to understand I want to understand excuse me excuse me miss you either ask a question this is not a debate that you are not debating you know ask a question you neither ask a question anyway thank you very much okay no actually behind you little behind my mind oh good answer a question actually before before that happens we have mister Hadj job he wants to answer the question you know yeah why do I'm why why my firm and assertive with David woods is because he spent 20 years of his life mocking Muslims and Islam accumulating more than 15 million 60 million channel views attacking Muslims in Islam which has led to brothers and sisters of mine being attacked on roads in this country exacerbating Islamophobia this man is not going to get with nice treatment from me he's not gonna get it this guy is not James White this guy is not William Lane Craig this guy is not respectable so he will not be treated with respect now he now just because your boy was smashed to use Cubs words it doesn't mean now that you're gonna give me a settle down please yes now point number two here point number two she mentioned many things multiple wives oh look look at the Old Testament please you said you'll talk about the Old Testament Abraham had three wives Solomon had three hundred wives you're very lucky that Islam capped at four because if it was in Solomon's time there would be three hundred now really and truly now I don't understand why why you must be very upset with me like this I mean why were you not upset with David would when he was mocking the Muslims for for for ten years why you're a parent you miss our hypocrite okay get the next question I would add this I want to end this on a good note so we have one question no no this side this side this side this side we're trying to get him first okay we'll get you up go ahead as I go on would what presented or what percentage of Christians had memorized the entire Holy Bible [Applause] the rules and everything this is never can you please settle down so I can answer the question what I know is that most of the Muslims memorize the Koran quickly position and do you know any Muslims any Christians that memorize the Bible quickly or are any any percent of them well the the Quran is designed for an oral culture to be memorized easily there are hundreds of thousands of people who have memorized dr. Seuss's green eggs and ham does that make it the Word of God ladies and gentlemen I'm trying to be respectful here so that's because these are young guys here Christian and Christianity the Bible is meant to be a book that's read right that's the idea they they they wrote Creed's and you would memorize Creed's we have some of them they wrote songs they memorized songs but the books of the Bible are written down to be books and to be read in public the Quran the Quran is meant to be is meant to be is meant to be memorized so there are different kinds of Scripture why you would say Oh a book that's more memorize the wall or something like that is must be more of the Word of God or something again that would make green eggs and ham much much more the Word of God than the Quran because it's much much he's it easier to understand a little side note as far as mocking Muslims because it's been brought up like a thousand times I haven't I haven't I haven't responded I mock teachings of Mohammed right like like dunking flies and drinks and things like that and if you say that's not what I read about mockery in the Muslim sources right I mean when there was a polytheist there Abu Bakr said go suck a lot close your ears if you're a child he said go suck a lots clitoris to one of the polytheists they're mocking the beliefs of the polytheists over and over again we find them mocking the beliefs if mockery is bad then you've condemned your own god and your own profit so okay please settle down please please settle down Shay settle down seriously this is not you guys claim to be Muslims it's not how Muslims act this is not how Muslims act you guys want to represent Islam we have brother Muhammad a job here he's done a very excellent job you basically undoing everything that he has done tonight please be respectful and we're gonna end our Q&A session right here thank you very much for coming we're gonna have food in the cafeteria right across an Academy Court building thank you very much for coming New York College Muslim Student Association thanks both dr. wood and brother Muhammad a job thank you so much actually [Music] you

Channel: Digital Mimbar

Views: 547,226

Rating: 4.7069283 out of 5

Keywords: islam, muslim, muslims, islamic, quran, koran, allah, muhammad, mohammed, mohamed, prophet, hadith, sunnah, shaykh, imam, lecture, khutbah, khutba, ramadan, bilal philips, sufi, salafi, hanafi, hijab, nasheed, nashid, almaghrib, dars, halaqa, bayan, convert, revert, shahada, dawah, da'wah, maher zain, sami yusuf, atheism, science, atheist, qur'an, recitation, surah, afasy, religion, religious, deen, madhhab, shia, sunni, Tawheed vs Trinity, Mohammed Hijab, David Wood, FULL DEBATE, S.A.L.A.M Initiative

Id: ZyhvQ0O4yxI

Length: 187min 20sec (11240 seconds)

Published: Sun Nov 11 2018