Lawrence Krauss vs Hamza Tzortzis - Islam vs Atheism Debate
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Views: 4,171,159
Rating: 4.7012572 out of 5
Keywords: islam, muslim, debates, Tzortzis, Morality, Islam and Science, science, lawrence m krauss, lawrence krauss, the big debates, God, Hamza Andreas Tzortzis (Person), Atheism (Religion), Religion (Literary Genre), Lawrence M. Krauss (Author), islam vs atheism, atheist vs muslim, God vs Science Debate, Muslim vs Atheist Debate, Islam vs Atheism Debate, Lawrence Krauss vs Hamza Tzortzis Debate, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9Ll6VDGlro, D9Ll6VDGlro
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Length: 131min 23sec (7883 seconds)
Published: Fri Mar 29 2013
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Hamza Tzortzis said this after the debate. He also has post-debate analyses posted here.
EDIT: I couldn't find anything Krauss said after the debate regarding debate content.
Anyone whos into math, regarding 43:50, does the sum of an infinite series add to a known value per krauss definition.
As a public speaker I think Krauss was very un-prepared, and seemed to go off the top of his head on subjects. It seemed un-prepared and as if he was just going with what was coming in his head. The arguements were incoherent and hard to follow along with because they changed very abruptly. It was interesting, but not very engaging.
Hamza's performance is amazing here and I think he borrows a lot from prof William Lane Craig who btw borrowed the islamic (in person) theory of kalam cosmological argument and set the precedent in engaging with the atheists rationally in an effective manner. Anyone who is familiar with the style of WLC will notice the similarity.
I would love to see Bro Hamza and WLC debate Islam vs Christianity.
I loved Br. Hamza's answer to the question posed at the 1:46:30 mark. Too many times do Muslims try to prove the truth of Islam through science. I'm getting pretty sick of it, and I'm glad he said what he said.
34:10 - Krauss is clearly pissed off. Very confrontational. He continues to call hamza's talk "nonsense", "inappropriate".
34:40 - "Islam is nothing special. Its not special at all". I think we can pack up our bags guys. Someone close down r/Islam. Islam isn't special. :(
35:05 - "There is no differnece (between Islam and other religions)." Yeah, he...really doesn't know what he's talking about. Then he goes and tells Hamza he doesn't know what he's talking about.
35:20 - He makes the same claim that all religion are the same and Islam is only one of them.
36:12 - refers to Islam a myth. Total lack of respect, despite hamza's utmost respect.
37:05 - He says athiesm is described as common sense. As if only those who are athiests can have common sense...really Krauss? Seriously? Wiiiide sweeping generalizations, not to mention its false.
38:35 - "Deductive arguments dont work." I'm not sure he knows what he's even saying at this point."They lead to irrational actions."
39:05 - "your belief is that you can pray to aaallah, then your belief is that oyu can jump out of the 4th story building and land safely." He had to dig deep in his *** to pull that one. Strawman like nothing else.
39:15 - straw man. Falsely attribute Just World Hypothesis to Islam and Hamza. This guy REALLY doesn't know what he's talking about. Like, seriously. He has no knowledge of Islam.
40:15ish - "Some people would rather read an ancient book, than learn, and this (pointing with his hand towards hamza) is very good evidence of that". lol. Umadbro?
41:40ish - he asks hamza if he speaks Classical Arabic to know if hamza knows that it's beautiful. Hamza says no, and he cuts him off without allowing him to finish. I thought Krauss wanted discussion...? Then hamza destroys him lawls. Oh but wait, Krauss has some good ones too!
45:15 - he keeps pointing very rudely in hamza's face. He then, in an arrogant way, says hamza is ignornat...note, in an arrogant way...just in case our athiest friends with PhD's in technicalities will reply back saying, "Saying someone is ignorant is not offensive"
46:00+ish - krauss is pissed. haha. poor guy. I feel bad for him...kind of...not really actually.
52:40ish - Krauss goes on to talk about human evolution and says, "Suddenly in the middle of the desert where no one can see it, he takes some poor shmoe and says, I'm gonna tell you the truth. And not only that, Im gonna aloow you to save humanity. And if people dont believe you, they are going to go to hell for eternity." He goes on to protray God as "masocistic", I think he meant sadistic, but I dont expect much accuracy from an angry person like Krauss.
Well, a) he has no respect for someones prophet refering to him as some "poor shmoe". I dont believe in Vishnu, but I dont tell Hindu's, "that wood rock thingy over there than you bow down to...yeah, that....thing". This guy has no tact, no respect, and a lot of arrogance. b) he doesn't know the concept of the hereafter and assumes that anyone who goes to hell is there permanently. He doesn't know the discussion that take place in Islam and assumes generalities to be true about Islam.
53:30ish - Asks why God always reveals His message in private. This is #38734 of the ongoing list of the instances in which Krauss shows he has no understanding of what Islam says.
56:00+ onward - derails of the topic and delves into social issues which was besides the topic of the debate. He ran out of material and is pressing hot button issues. In a debate which is about that, that is acceptable, but this is just another demonstration of the fact that Krauss is running of fume.
57:00 - Hamza says "having homosexual sex in public doesn't even happen where you're from." Krauss apparently has emotions. He was just ranting about Islam, belittling Hamza and the Prophet by reffering to him as "some poor shmoe", and depicted God as "masocstic" (which he actually meant sadistic, and now he becomes offended. Seems like genuine emotion...
57:30ish - He says, "homosexuality is natural, in all animal species which occurs with a 10% frequency." First off, that's not very common but more importantly, this has nothing do with Islam and the debate about does God exist. To say, "homosexuality in animals is seen, so therefore God doesn't exist" is just ridiculous.
I skipped a bunch but THIS part is the best:
Hamza: Explaing to me why incest is wrong Krauss: It's not clear to me that it's wrong.
Krauss says societies have had an emprical evdience to why incest is wrong? Where? When? What is the evidence for this? To say, "genentic defects" is not only not the answer, but it is the answer that have come up with only after realizing and understanding DNA and genetics. So 2000 years ago, the reason someone didn't want to have incent marriage or sex is because "It causes genentic defects". Please....
Krauss goes on to say that "there in an ingrained taboo in all societies becuase societies want to presist". Yet when making this arguement, athiests say that's not a valid reason. ookay. He goes on to say that a brother and sister can have sex while using contraception. I feel like I am watching a man dig his own grave.
1:15:40ish - Krauss says, "your Islamic god is a creep, worse than saddam hussein". Subhanka, haadha buhtaanun atheem. La hawla wala quwwata illa billah. Allahumma in lam turid hidayatan lahum fal'anhum la'nan kabira. SubhanAllah, subhanAllah, subhanAllah. La Illaha illAllah muhammadan Rasulullah. Krauss has no respect WHATsoever. WHATsoever.
1:16:30 - he confused the hadith for praying 5 times a day vs 50 to mean taht before the Prophet saaws that they were required to pray 50 times a day. Again, he doesn't know a single thing he's talking about.
1:16:45 - goes on to describe god in the most awful ways without regard for the sensitivity of the subject.
I'm getting kind of tired of pointing out how many times krauss makes a Krauss out of himself. I think we all get the point that he has no idea what he's talking about and is thoroughly humiliated by not having a single shred of tact, respect, and most of all knoweldge of what the debate is actually about.
To sum it up hamza destroyed Krauss
Krauss' whole demeanor was very disrespectful. Pointing in Hamza's face, raising the tone of his voice, cutting him off repeatedly, etc.
The part that annoyed me the most was the that whole rant where Krauss said that its implausible that god waited however many of billion years to send a messenger to a select group of Arabs. He went on about this so adamantly and ferociously. It proved to me that he literally had no idea what he was talking about, and had done absolutely no research on islam. Because in Islam we believe in all the past prophets and we believe that there's thousands upon thousands of Prophets sent to civilizations with the message of God. I'm actually really surprised that Hamzah didn't bring that up.