Christian Muslim Debate got a little hot – Missionary said ‘We hit the wall’ and left

don't say yes and I say God in the Old Testament Jesus didn't show up and tell them Jesus wasn't not didn't exist okay so how would you go no we didn't take the ball it's just logical I've hit the wall okay you did yeah see and any commandment in the Old Testament was coming from Jesus okay predictable it please got to do what you got to do yeah I guess not sure it's the bill cover you know should we just get here bismillah r-rahman Ibrahim in the name of God the most beneficent the most merciful we welcome our friend add to our Ignace enter and we are here to have a friendly discussion ok the word emphasis is on friendly alright we are here to have a friendly discussion about God about purpose of life and about how to achieve paradise sounds fair is the camera running yeah yeah ok can you see if it's the timer is going on the red button is flashing ok well first of all I would like to say thank you very much for getting together having an opportunity for discussion I the three of us represent two different worldviews to different faiths Islam and Christianity and with that being said I see it as we both have the same problem so what's that problem the problem is is that our parents or our culture that we were raised in told us what to believe and okay so when you're little you believe what your parents or your culture tells you and when you grow up then you have an opportunity to ask the question is what I believe correct because I think you would agree with me that either Islam is right and Christianity's wrong or Islam is wrong and Christianity's right or they're both wrong correct correct but they're not both right one can be 100% right but both cannot be hundred-percent right if they are then we are saying that you know God is a God of contradiction I agree 100% so our purpose over here is not to put down each other's fate our purpose here I believe in a friendly way is to share our faith and we will do and I will do it and most of the time I will use the whiteboard so in that way at least you would know what Islam is and where we are coming from not only that we will try to give you as much evidence as possible from the scriptures from history from the life of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and obviously at the end of the day no one can force anyone the Quran says in chapter 2 verse number 256 that there is no compulsion in faith all we can do is share our faith invite you to the faith and then leave you at that and we depart with a smile with a handshake and leaving the door open for future such discussions okay now can I back the card up a little bit go funny okay so the thing that brought me to meet Abdul was this sign that's on the tristate that's put up by game peace.com or dialogue calm calm okay so anyways and it says find Jesus in the Quran mm-hmm and he's in there many times so we don't need to discuss them but then it says find Muhammad in the Bible so I know the Bible pretty well so that's what brought me and I had the chance of meeting Abdul and we discussed that and and then I wrote a letter back which I gave you later that I disagree with the aspect of is Muhammad in the Bible so what we can do is act for us to discuss the topic we need to create some proper context okay so why don't we create that context I will briefly go over what Islam is and within that then we can introduce the topic so that will be a better way with that context to discuss find Jesus in the Quran and Muhammad peace be upon him in the Bible sounds fair because you know if they jump into it right away we may they may not be able to do proper justice compared to if we connect historically both of these individuals muhammad peace be upon him and jesus peace be upon him connecting them to some place in history some place with God some place with the scriptures in that way we can do the best justice to their topic sounds fair that's fine except that isn't what I thought we were gonna talk about we will talk about that okay yes yes we will come to that obviously and I sense you since you came here looking at the sign and disagreeing or any comment that you have we will touch upon the topic obviously okay right let me quickly use the whiteboard and you can you can stop me anytime but it's better that I just complete my thought so and then obviously once I am done sit down then we can discuss that and then we can right away come to the topic of the prophecy but I will still ask you you know IDI will stop you but I won't stop you so it you may have heard the word Allah have you yes okay so when we Muslims when we use the word Allah we don't mean a different God there are many names for God in different languages like in Spanish it is deals in Hebrew it is what what is the name like in the Hebrew Bible perhaps Yahweh Jehovah maybe Elohim different names but they are all referring to the same one God in Norwegian it is good in Aramaic language the language of Jesus it is Allah or Allah the creator of the universe or in English the creator of the universe correct in Arabic it is Allah so when we say the word Allah we are not worshipping a god of the Muslims the Arabs we are worshipping the same Almighty Creator even the Jews and the Christians whose native tongue is Arabic when they have their Arabic Bibles wherever the word God occurs in the King James Bible they have the word Allah in there and these are the native Jews and the native Christians of the Arab lands so that shows that even they acknowledge that Allah is God in the language of Arabic there's number one so number two is what are some of the attributes so we say that God is eternal if any entity which is eternal does not need to have any parents miss God always existed we say that God is also all-knowing he is all-hearing he can hear us he can he's watching us he knows our hearts and minds our thoughts and we say that God is also all-powerful he doesn't have a family like ours his one his unique no sons no daughters no uncles aunts grandparents his one his unique now two important attributes of God is that one is that he is a loving God Quran says many many places like in chapter 2 verse number 190 and different places God is a loving God and God wants to guide humanity so two of the names of God in Arabic is that he is a loved adult means his love he's the source of all love and the second attribute is that God is al-hadi that means he wants to guide humanity now what Islam says to guide humanity God himself does not come down and become a human animal or creation God remains God and he appoints prophets and messengers so what I would do now is I'm going to draw a timeline so when God created Adam God did not left Adam alone on his human shortcomings and human fallible nature from day number one God wants to start guiding Adam to the truth so the main message that God gave to Adam boss submission to one God do not worship animals do not worship the Sun the Moon the creation but only submit to one God only follow him he is the creator you are you should be submitting him so as humanity was increasing around the world then God gave the similar or the same commandment to all the prophets and the messengers so I'm going to write down here some of the messengers and the prophets which are in the Quran and you may know by your knowledge we consider Noah as a prophet Abram Moses son I'm skipping many many they are like literally hundreds and thousands and David let's say Jesus who we consider as a mighty prophet and the last one the Quran mentions was Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and peace be upon all of them so God gave the same commandment to all the prophets that they should go and tell their people that do not worship humans and idols and creation but only submit to one God so that's submission to one guard concept in Arabic is Islam so if you take this concept that you are worshipping absolutely one God no partners no sons and daughters and uncles and aunts if you take that concept and translates into Arabic it becomes the word Islam so we say that Islam was not founded by Muhammad peace be upon him Islam is a guidance was given by God to every single prophet means we say that Abraham Abraham his mission was to invite his people to submit to one God that means to follow Islam so what do you think is the name add for a person who follows Islam like you have Christianity and Christians Islam and Muslims correct so in that sense we say that every single prophet was a Muslim we don't consider you know Abraham to be a say a Jew or a Christian in fact the Quran says that he was neither a Jew nor a Christian but he was a Muslim when it comes to no ha and the rest of the prophets of Quran says that the same message given to you Muhammad peace be upon him was also given to all of them when it comes to Jesus the Quran says in chapter 3 verse number 51 in Arabic it says in the law ha Robbi were abu qamha buddha has a Sarah Thomas Topham the translation is so Jesus is quoted in the Quran and God is saying about Jesus that verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord worship Him alone and that is the straight path and then when it comes to Muhammad peace be upon him God also revealed the Quran which we consider as the last and the final book right Quran and and there are many passages in the Quran that speaks about the oneness of God one of them is chapter 1 1 2 so the translation is God is saying verily Allah or God is one God he is eternal he's needed by all he begets not nor his begotten and there is none like unto God really simple so sometimes the youth the Muslim youth or the Christian youth or other youth or other people they may ask me or abdulqadir the question if Islam is the one in the only faith then where did other faiths came about so we believe that if God would have revealed all the face then God would be a God of contradiction God is not going to say to one set of people it's ok to worship idols but the second set of people it's ok to worship humans to the third set of people you know that's wrong but only worship one God if the same God would have revealed these contradictory messages humanity would be confused so we say God from the beginning only sent and revealed one consistent ideology one fate and we say that faith is submission to one God which is Islam quickly how did other faiths came about some people so this is the timeline and this is also the right path the path of submission to God which is Islam so we say that some people they moved away from the oneness of God and they started to worship idols that's how we say the faith of Hinduism came about all right worshipping of idols some people they started to worship the Sun you know the Sun in the moon today is cloudy but sun the moon so there's how the faith of atenism came about not atheism Athene ISM some people they started to worship actually they took away the concept of God and they all retain certain rituals that's how the faith of Buddhism came about right Buddhists and then we say that some people they elevated a person a creation of God a prophet a messenger to be son of God and divine equal to God and we say that's how the faith of Christianity was created so all of this phase we say that they are man-made faiths they are deviations from the one right faith God appointed prophets and messengers to bring these people back again so he can save them and they can go to paradise so that was the mission of all the prophets and messengers I can give you some quick references then I will wrap up so it says about all the prophets coming with that same message chapter number 16 verse number 36 that God has appointed messengers and prophets and Warner's to all the people and all the nations of the past and their message was to invite humanity to the worship of one God when it comes to know how Abraham Moses Jesus of Quran says chapter 42 verse number 13 same message same main ideology given to you Muhammad peace be upon him was given to all of them when it comes to Abraham chapter 3 verse number 67 says that Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian but he was a honey if he was a Muslim when it comes to Jesus I have mentioned this over here right but let me also give you ad since you have the Bible open some references from the Old Testament and from the New Testament now it's important Abraham he came before Judaism was canonized he came before Christianity but he was a spiritual person he used to worship one God so the Bible says that when Abraham had to worship God and bow down before God he used to bow down to only one singular entity example Genesis Chapter six seventeen verse number three all right also when it comes to Moses he was a absolute monotheism you know the very first commandment in Exodus chapter 20 verse number three exodus chapter 20 verse number three says that you should not take any other God besides me means God is saying that absolute oneness again Moses mentioned so this is also mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter five verse number six exactly the same the Ten Commandments people asked Moses the question about God so he mentioned again in the book of Deuteronomy chapter six verse number four he said here o Israel the Lord our God is only one right not multiple not any combination but one as in mathematical one when it comes to Jesus interestingly it's important in the Gospel of Mark the second Gospel chapter number 12 verse number 28 a person came to Jesus and asked him a million-dollar question that of all the commandments and the Jewish people used to have 613 commandments and this person wanted to know of all the commandments which one is the first the greatest of all the commandments and Jesus as a prophet of God he replied in mark chapter 12 verse number 29 here o Israel the Lord our God he's one worship him right not worship me not worship some other entity worship him with all your heart mind soul and strength and that is the first commandment he said a aligning himself with the rest of the prophets but as some people moved away from that first commandment and formed their own fates God then brought and appointed his last and the final prophet and last but not the least anyone who believes in all the prophets worships only one God follows the books the original way that they were given to those profits not the current diluted versions and then follow as a guidance the last book the Quran and the example of Muhammad peace be upon him Islam says that through God's mercy those people would go to paradise alright so the Quran says in chapter 2 verse number 25 anyone who has the right belief miss only worshiping one God no humans no idols no creation but only worshiping one God and doing good deeds has been brought by in the Quran and through Muhammad peace be upon in his example God has promised paradise for those individual no ifs and buts right guaranteed by God's mercy but then God says on the flip side of it you know just like when we went to schools and colleges if we don't obey the professor the attendance policy the participation the assignment supposes the finals there would be consequences even the places where we work there are consequences if you don't obey the policies so if people they worship someone else instead of God or along with God and they die like that obviously there would be consequences they would be hell fire but it's it is not up to me or brother Abdul Qadir or any Muslim to to label people here or people here ultimately God on the day of judgement will bring us back to life and he will question us and he will analyze us that did we had the right belief did we do good deeds based upon God's criteria but it's not the good deeds themself it is the mercy of God that will put us into paradise and we hope and pray that by God's mercy God's love God's guiding nature all of us we worship God so we can go to paradise I mean okay thank you were you able to comprehend at least from the Islamic world view you said okay right you know questions that come up in my mind as well first of all you said it's because of God's mercy that people can be saved so my understanding is that they maybe have done a lot of good things but they have no assurance of salvation because in your words Allah will do whatever I'll is going to do you have no assurance even if you've done fantastic good things helping people that are destitute or whatever that you have no assurance as opposed to the guide of Christianity he has extended mercy and grace to everyone and if they reach out and accept that by believing in him that they will get that gift of grace solid before this include that point it's important I hear the word guaranteed is there a guarantee if a person has the right belief and doing good deeds God mentions in the Quran that he guarantees those people eternal paradise and we hope and pray that all of us me him I mean even you inshallah if you come this side God will guarantee that but we have to fulfil certain criteria for it having the right beliefs and doing the good deeds based upon God's criteria well yeah I understand in Islam you have no assurance of salvation well I mention less you died in Jihad or something like that there's a versatility crunch I would try to paraphrase in English it's God saying to Prophet Muhammad it says the Prophet tell the believer tell that you tell my slaves meaning you and me tell my people that don't be disappointed from the mercy of God Almighty he will forgive all the sins that you could do yes for the Danube on jamia he will forgive all the sins he says but there's one sin that he said will not forget which is if you associate any divine partner with God Almighty that is a one sin that is not going to be for forgiving other than that whatever sins no matter how monumental they may be God says that I will forgive jamia jamia means all of them except one that if you associate divine partner and this is the standard position of God Almighty and this is our belief that God will forgive our sins okay well I I don't want to get you know that as far as I'm concerned going through this is not I mean this is good and thank you for giving it but then you said that Mohammed is the last prophet who determined that he's the last prophet how the water by Joseph Smith so sure what what about all these other faiths that have come since then the Jehovah Witnesses you know so anyways that's a question that comes up you're saying Muhammad's the last prophet and if he's a prophet what did he prophesy okay fine so you know I think history will show that he didn't prophesy anyway well he did many thinking the time the Prophet so then you could say he's the last prophet but anyways no no but so we have the response to it we have the response you know it may appear as if you you may be thinking you know we are just saying that without evidence there is first and foremost the biggest evidence is that Quran itself says in chapter 33 verse number 40 that he is the seal of the prophet his hotham and have been the seal of the prophet but it's important for you and me to know that we take her on is the word of God because it has evidences for it to be the Word of God first and foremost you know brother ad the Quran mentions that the author of the Quran itself is God number two the Quran has many prophecies in there so this is not the work of Muhammad peace be upon him we believe it is coming directly from God through Muhammad peace be upon him so one of the prophecies in the Quran which is in chapter 15 verse number 9 so just a translation God is saying that that this revelation is from God and he will protect it so we can see that from the time of Muhammad peace be upon him up until our time millions of people they have memorized it he memorized it initially as a messenger of God he taught it to his people and they memorized it and that is coming from that time to our time so that's one indication second indication this book is from God God says in the Quran chapter 4 verse number 82 had this book from anyone besides God they would have been contradictions in it not a single contradiction point number 3 the Arabs of that time there were masters in the language of Arabic they were the Shakespear's of Arabic at that time and Muhammad peace be upon him idiot he did not knew how to read and write so if we say that this book is coming from the mind of Muhammad peace be upon him the Quran challenges that if you don't take this to be as a as a book of God why don't you produce a book like this book so this challenge initially came to those Shakespear's of Arabic who were masters of the language from a person who is not able to read and write so the Quran says in chapter 17 verse number 88 all of you coming together the humans are genes you could not produce a book like this they utterly failed even though they were masters the Quran reduced the challenge in chapter 11 verse number 13 make ten chapters like the Quranic chapters they utterly were not able to then God produced the challenge in chapter 2 verse number 23 produce one chapter similar to the Quranic chapter in its eloquence in its wisdom in its guidance in its scientific facts historical facts prophecies history they utterly failed to produce even one chapter and one chapter of the Quran it can be a small chapter that has only three passages put on his scientific facts in there brother edy there are 6,000 passages plus in the Quran more than 500 of them speaks about scientific facts about how the universe began from one primordial mass in chapter 21 verse number 30 speaks about it Quran speaks about the expansion of the universe chapter 51 verse number 47 Quran speaks about the rotation and the revolution of all the celestial bodies in chapter 21 verse number 33 and whorin has solutions for humanity's problems against racism against oppression of women equality of all the races Quran has solutions that what we need so if an authentic witness is mentioning that Muhammad is the last prophet peace be upon him we believe in it so that's the reason we say Quran is the word of God in the Quran itself is same so your question is you know how about Jehovah's Witnesses how about you know Joseph Smith or anybody else correct since this is a valid evidence in the court of law and this valid evidence is saying that the prophethood has closed with the coming of Muhammad peace be upon him we don't take any one of them to be as prophets and messengers okay so people comes you know sorry you know we're gonna we both have our our worldviews in we disagree with each other but my question is in the Quran Sura 19 19 says Jesus was without sin okay sir 47 19 says Muhammad had sinned so I I have you know and I've asked Muslims this before you want to be good you know you talk about being good okay you have to have a good model to follow so why wouldn't Islam follow Jesus and Islam came after Jesus everything that's in the Bible was written before 100 AD Islam came 600 or 700 whenever you want to say it started so why wouldn't your own books as Jesus had no sin so why don't you follow Jesus instead of Muhammad okay so our belief is that every single prophet is innocent they consciously they don't commit any sin okay no Muhammad is sin well you can take a look well our brother is going to take a look at it now okay for the sake of argument right that one prophet committed sin second prophet did not okay the sinless prophet is still a prophet a sinless creation is still a creation sure sure a perfect banana is still a banana it does not evolve into a orange a sinless creation is still a creation a sinless man is still a man he does not become God so if that's your argument that's not true secondly Muhammad peace be upon him he did not committed any sin it's important many a times the Quran is a sharing something with humanity with the Muslims through Muhammad peace be upon him so not that he committed the same what God is saying is that for the sins that you have committed as for God's forgiveness we believe that Muhammad peace be upon him he's not the founder of Islam Islam was given by God to all the prophets and the messengers it was perfected by God in the time of Muhammad peace be upon him and where does Christianity fit in there we say that it is a dilution of the original faith of Jesus Jesus never said you know my faith is Christianity even the word Christianity is not there in the entire Bible it's not there at all the word Judaism is not there in the whole Bible the word Trinity not the concept is there in the whole Bible what is there sure we'll come to the concept but we are all agreeing that every single prophet of the Old Testament all of them they preach the absolute oneness of God none of them they said you know what God is one God is three but as people moved away from this original concept God kept on introducing new prophet new messenger to bring them back again and this is how Jesus was saying this is how Muhammad peace be upon him they were sent Jesus was prophesied in the beginning of the Bible genesis 3:15 talks about someone is going to be sent for the salvation of all those who are coming afterwards all that had sinned all that have fallen away prophesied then there's all these prophecies in the Old Testament that explain who the Messiah is going to be and there's only one person in the history of mankind that fulfilled those prophecies because the it had to be fulfilled before the destruction of the temple in 70 AD and Jesus is the only person that fulfilled those prophecies I mean the prophecy says something so brother it is you you know and I me know that the word Jesus does not occur anywhere in the Old Testament now that's right I totally agree with that it's an unknown but when he shows up and he's the only one that fulfills all those prophecies of the Old Testament they're still Jews that don't believe that he was the one but those who became followers of his are are the the true Christians and so you know when we sit and talk about Jesus never hurt anybody Muhammad killed people left and right any one person he killed Battle of trench okay okay five hundred men would be headed six hundred did he give it to you six hundred okay six hundred he was there that was his authority he during his lifetime he commissioned or was part of many many battles where people were slaughtered left and right so back to you know maybe in the Quran it says that's okay but there's no comparison Jesus loved everyone whether they believed in him or not Allah only believes in those who love him so are you saying that God has unconditional love do you believe that yes okay then they should not be right but nobody is going to also judge when Judgment Day comes exactly right yes so God does not have unconditional love if it were true then they wouldn't have they would be why are you saying I I believe he hears love there's such a thing as called tough love you know so I have a person even if you associate a divine partner with God and make elevate a human's person to the level of David God himself would he still for let you go that you believe that there's another person who as far as Christianity is concerned Jesus is God are you sure I'm sure that that's what Christianity believes let me ask you this ya know before be changing to a new topic our brother and he brought a few points which are not historically scripturally - and one of those points is that you know Jesus is a Prince of Peace and we consider him to be at the Prince of Peace and then you said you know Muhammad peace be upon him II engaged in many battles you know many suffering people got killed and you mentioned the Jewish tribe and how do you respond to them yeah yeah so the response is coming right so before we jump into the divinity and the deity of Christ it's important should i erase this yeah okay fine [Music] no Prophet Mohammed peace be upon him where you get started I just happen to think you were you were saying you know there's many words that don't appear in books and that's really where this whole discussion started is find Muhammad in the Bible Muhammad does not appear there in all the characteristics that are described in John that refer to the counselor that's coming it's impossible for my so he will also come to that topic okay so let me quickly respond to what he said then the two topics we will cover right after one is the divinity as you started and one would be the prophecy sounds fair so let me just write down here divinity so we don't forget it and the prophecies all right so really important historically Muhammad peace be upon him he received revelation in the year 610 about 600 years after Christ the main crux of the revelation is the absolute worship of one God the people in Mecca most of them they were idol worshipers some of them they received the message of oneness of God submission to Vanguard Islam some of them they rejected you know just like when Christ came Jewish people rejected some people embrace well the concept was there that means submission to one God even the word Shalom writes Shalom peace sure so we say that the followers of Moses we call these Muslims that means they used to submit to one God right so in the year 610 when God started to reveal the Quran to Muhammad peace be upon him some people agreed some people did not he gave them the choice he did not kill them he gave them the choice literally some people who did not believed in him they started to come after his life so God commanded him move to Medina so this is when the migration took place in the year 622 so about 13 or 12 years after the Prophet preached over here right God commanded him to move out him and his followers because people were rebelling and they came to assassinate them yes right and some of them they got killed means so some of the idol worshipers they killed prophet saw from family members some Muslims so eventually they ran for their life with God's commandment when they came here they found many Jewish tribes there were many Jewish tribes they were living in Medina as you may know from history now one of the very first things that Muhammad peace be upon him he did he wrote or he dictated something called a constitution Medina charter really important Medina charter the Medina charter says that the Jewish and the Muslim people would be one people we are going to look after each other the Jewish people you are going to have your autonomy freedom of faith and culture and synagogues and justice system and penal system so within Medina they were given a true autonomy now the Jews signed the contract the Muslim signed the contract that they're not going to side with the enemy we are going to protect and take care of each other so this was a Constitution signatories where the Jews and the Muslims headed by Muhammad peace be upon him so what happened was as he moved to Medina these people they keep on coming army after army to destroy Medina and obviously to just take care of the whole Islam itself so the Prophet had many many defensive Wars this LOM is not a pacifist faith Islam is a practical faith if somebody is coming after you you're calling him defensive yes is on the offenses whole life he started with a robbing his own people in a caravan during Ramadan so you know don't call it defense because he was on the offense killing people left and right all the time so what happened was before he moved over here they took away the houses of the Muslims and the property and the kill people so they had blood on their hands and they had property Muslim property as they were moving in their caravans with the Muslim property and those murderers they were going to Syria and Lebanon right to sell the Muslim property so prophet's army they intercepted them and it is a do just interception you know just imagine if the Jewish people would have intercepted the Nazis who killed the Jewish people heard the Jewish property what we would say to them yes there's the best thing the right thing you know those nasty Nazis exactly the same situation ad they were the Nazis of that time yes history I came here to have a discussion about what was on the sign on the on the toll road and I also brought up the fact about you know some things that you just keep skirting away from I don't I don't need a history lesson on I'm you know I disagree with almost everything you've said so far I will give you a references from non-muslim authorities you know because you mentioned a few historical errors with all due respect you said that Muhammad peace be upon him he killed he murdered news innocent people what I am saying is that there was a constitution of course you have to look at the proper context people okay let me just wrap it up in two minutes okay fine so the Jewish people so in one of the wars call us the war of the trench ten thousand people they came to destroy Islam okay the Jewish people who were living here they sided with these people they became enemy combatants they became spies as the Muslim army to fight these people who came to destroy Islam the Jewish people they were compromising the Muslim women the children and the innocent people and they sided with the enemy they became enemy combatants and they broke this contract for that reason those people who did that they were punished in any country you know our country - if there are any enemy combatants drone missiles are sent out people are getting killed why because we are they are siding against our country our democracy our people our soldiers exactly that's what the Jewish people did so you have to have the proper context and who's saying this you know Karen Armstrong dr. Karen Armstrong she's an Orientalist she said they committed treason they committed high treason and that for that reason they were punished but there were many other Jewish tribes according to her there were many other Jewish tribes who peacefully lived there the Prophet didn't do anything to them so this is the proper context so we say that Jesus was the Prince of Peace and Muhammad peace be upon him he was the Prince of Peace in all different aspect alam is a practical faith if somebody comes after my life your life what do you do what do i do we call the police we call 9-1-1 if you have a security security a lot of them be presage we do we follow Jesus Moses Abram all the prophets you do not find you either follow Jesus or you don't follow him you don't follow Jesus you follow Muhammad the book that he wrote Jesus himself followed Moses yeah Jesus followed Moses any situation he was under the law of Moses he didn't bring any law what to follow him so we follow Jesus see the thing is such like that you buy hip not sinning anything are you implying that he will a God saying he is big and difficult so what so that's what we're sorry okay what do you make of those clear-cut indirect verses from Jesus himself that clearly said that the God of Israel is the God Almighty the God of Abraham and he is not God and he categorically says that I am a man I am a human being this is not one versus the multiple vs. let me give you one is he's our man Wally schirra life form of Jason I would like I would like you to respond to these things but it says that now you seek to kill me a man who heard the truth from God so who who is in his mind he's thinking that who is God and who is himself and he says whatever he says if he heard from God Almighty why was Jesus now wrong let me finish this I said at one place he also says that my doctrine is not money but the man who sent me so whatever he preached is not constructive his own mind this is what he got from his God Almighty who he says he is his God now you seek to kill me a man who has heard a truth from who God so himself is identifying to the man and he's identifying God Almighty as a separate being from whom he is getting his message I understand he is thinking I understand the difficulty of the Trinity Trinity I'm talking about tell you you have to talk about the Trinity because that's where the confusion comes in but when you get the question of why was Jesus crucified and I realize you you the Islam says oh that wasn't Jesus that was on the cross but that's a whole nother subject I think you're switching I want you were stuck with Jesus said you respond to this when he says himself see the thing is you have to pay attention to what Jesus is saying not to somebody else who is saying something about Jesus we're talking what he said that's exactly right I totally said when he says that you saw that they may know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you sent who is he talking to okay can I answer now please thank you yes who is he talking to when Jesus was in front of the Pharisees and they asked him who he was and he gave an answer but it is it they said that's blasphemy what he what Anthony is I don't have it memorized but they said dad you die as lebretia I want you to tell me what was that why was Jesus crucified did he say something because of blasphemy that's what the Pharisees you just yes I'm actually código scenario you said he was asked the questions right and he answered something and then they understood him some way I want you to tell me what was his answer okay and tell me that one he says that God and Jesus Christ who is that who is he asked telling that he's the only true God who's he talking to I want you to respond to this verse that this is clear-cut I mean you don't need the tools of implication to explain this verse to me this one you wanted to add to the look at maybe I can help actually what he said that he was a so by the varices he said he doesn't want to deal with that this was actually he wants to learn want to talk about that this is so clear that you are the only true God he said John 17:3 he says now this is life eternal that they may know you the only true God and I want you to can you can you pay attention to this thing just I'm still looking here I really who I would really like you to respond to this verse because if you are not praying to the right God you basically are wasting your breath and your time you can mark that down you can come to it right by the end you can mark it down the thing is that this is there is no respon recorded by Jesus in that scenario but let him look up at you know if it takes time then we can deal with other passages as brother abdulqadir has mentioned all right so that passage that you mentioned right john 17:3 sure sure it's really important for us when we when we put a label to any person that he is God's Son of God prophet my senior brother Eddie go ahead talk you know I mean I disagree with almost everything you're saying I'm saying that when Jesus was in front of the Pharisees yes and they asked him who he was he answered them and they said yeah they said that's blasphemy what no the important thing is look at how they reacted they said that's blast me and what as well asking you and I asked me what was his answer I want you to tell me what was done who he was this is important but this is not able to find that maybe next sitting you can but it's okay if you cannot find it right now okay go ahead action again since you made this allegation about this let's close this chapter at least you have to acknowledge that the Jews and the Muslims they had a treaty and the Jews broke the trainee who is saying this dr. Karen Armstrong who is saying this the truth is a book written by interfaith partners they are saying yet Jewish people that committed high treason they became enemy combatants this is a historical fact there is nothing yet you know I this is not something subjective you know it feels good it looks good now if it's true it's true it's a historical fact they committed crime in they were punished for it in our country people get punished when there can be crime any country okay so let's close this one here so let's come to the divinity of Christ see you right after that then we will come to the prophecy and my part is that single most important topic in any religious discourse is who is garden who is not God because whatever our grave affair whatever else you are doing you are is distributed if you're not praying to the right God doesn't matter who else your friend doesn't matter how how righteous you could be my point is this when you hear Jesus saying this that he's talking to his God he says you are the only true God I'm kind of surprised add and then you are not paying attention to this words you're looking for something that he did not say and you are ignoring something that he did say it's a brother and there is a word verse up there John chapter 17 verse number three okay that brother of the Hadiya has brought up looks like you're still more to find that you know even if he finds that I can tell you sooner he did it this one he did not say anything no no so the point brother ed is trying to say is whatever his reaction of Jesus he committed blasphemy in the eyes of those people so let's deal with that also as soon as you give us the attention there's deal inshallah see how could we do my point is that we can put our life on something which is clear and obvious or something which is vague and ambiguous and actually it's not even then it's mute Jesus was mute you can say anything but you're not paying attention to what he did say and then you're looking for something but he did not say how logical is this honestly to me all the religious discussions have secondary importance the primary thing is that who is God and who is not once you form the right God you have a chance for salvation okay can I read the Bible what the Bible says now yeah thank you Matthew 26 62 the high priest then stood up and said to him don't you have an answer to what these men are testifying against you but Jesus kept silent then the high priest said to him by the Living God I place you under oath tell us if you are the Messiah the son of God you have said it Jesus told him but I tell you in the future you will see the Son of God seated at the right hand of the power and coming of the clouds of heaven then the high priest tore his robes and said he has blasphemes why do you still need witnesses what does blasphemy it means he said it was God he said he was God he said witness it I just read it to you if you say was God did Jesus say he was gonna show me where did Jesus said he was God I want you to show me why does it have to use those exact words why not can't you say things in many different ways but what did the person that was standing right in front of him how did he interpret it what is the alternative to I am God what is alternative you can say something in many many different ways then what what about this was what he says that he is talking to God Almighty the god of history and says you are the only true God so what does it mean that that means there is a Trinity where did you get that so anyways so so brother ed you know any interpretation hermeneutics of any any scripture there are passages in any Scripture and we all agree with it some of them are explicit some of them are implicit do we agree with them whether it sure okay now here are the passages about Jesus explicit and implicit if you don't agree with this I have an elaborate book but let's start with this we agree he was born so he was born and according to you he died okay that's even explicit he performed miracles by whose power power of God power of God read and there's explicit so this is in chapter 5 verse number 30 of John he was born Matthew and Luke both mention it okay how about this one here do we all agree that God is all-knowing okay before I mentioned this point did you say that Jesus was only a human and also hundred percent God I have five minutes fine do you say that Jesus was 100% human hundred percent God or just 100% human what's your position I would go with your first statement that he was both 100% God yes percent okay fine and we know that Jesus Jesus were saying he was not all-knowing who says that gospel of mark the second Gospel chapter 13 verse number 32 the person not just person people came to ask Jesus when the last day is going to be and Jesus he replied of that day and of that hour no one knows it no human no angel neither the son but only the father is including himself that he's not ongoing but definition God has to be all-knowing and you said that he's hundred-percent God either he did not knew the future that disqualifies him to be God or he knew the future and he's like God no why do you say he's lying because if he knew the future but then he said I don't know it he said only one entity knows it and that entity is not him nor the Holy Spirit but only the father right so only father knows that when he becomes God then he knows that when he's man he does not know it no but to you that's what he's saying well he didn't say that you said that he's hundred percent God as God went well he's got he's a hundred percent God when he's man he's one hundred percent man he somebody can cease to be God pardon so he cease to be God and then become a man so at one point one point he's God and the other point he is not God is that is that true he's in a different form no no but Jesus no but but rather a dimension he is always 100% God you said that his hundred percent human and it's 100 percent God so when they asked him the question he was still hundred percent God and then he said I don't know it only one entity knows it and there's not him so Jesus was not all-knowing and did Jesus worship some other entity he did Matthew chapter 26 verse number 39 he went to the Garden of Gethsemane and he bowed down his head on the ground as a Muslim because he was a Muslim and he prayed to God take this cup of death away from me not my will but your will but answer then the person I'm trying you respond to when he addressing to see when two people are talking to each other the way they address each other that clearly identifies who is who right Jesus and God are in conversation and then you can tell who is who he is talking to God who God of Israel John 17:3 he says this is life eternal that they may know you the only true God why did he not include himself I had he separated himself I can't I got an answer there but okay now is it my turn no it's your turn okay I'm mr. justice just kind of to wrap things up sure sure because we can go on forever talk to you heard all day I do but you know this is not what I thought I was coming here for we were going to come right from this to the prophecies but then you said you had to go well so anyways you know we all worship somebody or something and in your own book it says Jesus had no sin and it said Muhammad had sinned so the question is why don't you follow Jesus and put him above everybody else and why all this killing so you are fully flopping and I don't know what you don't want to leave you already responded yeah about what happened to the Jews in the proper context we also responded that all the prophets are sinless in that passage it does not say that what Muhammad peace be upon him so don't come back to it even though that's been explained already okay well I think we've hit the wall as they say and I appreciate your time and just the opportunity to have the conversation but you know when it goes back to where we originally had a relationship was that Muhammad is not in the Bible because when you read the Bible and the verses right around there it specifically states that it's the Holy Spirit that's being referred to and the other verses that might use the word spirit you know that you have the they just just one second that you would like to say well that's referring to Mohammed no it's only referring to the Holy Spirit there is director brother ed does he receives revelation from somebody else the Holy Spirit isn't Holy Spirit according to you 100% God but in that passage John chapter 16 verse number 13 and 14 it says he is not going to speak of himself whatever he hears that's what he will speak Holy Spirit if his God God does not have to wait for somebody to give him the revelation it uses the male pronoun he seven times and it says that Jesus has to go for that entity to come if Holy Spirit was already there the Holy Spirit was already there when it says then when he leaves it will come it means to come inside and then dwell but still he was already there he was already there yes and Mohammed was not there does he has to wait for some other entity to give revelation to the Mohammed was neither so the point is it says in that passage he's not going to speak of himself whatever he hears that's what he will speak so that shows a deficiency in that person that person is not all-powerful Almighty he has to wait for some other more powerful person a higher person a higher being to give him the revelation and there's not your theology it is not Holy Spirit it is a male pronoun see the same guys know she gives Jesus in the Old Testament where do you find the name Jesus you noticed you imply it right you compare verses and to make your judgment that's your judgment this is not in the Old Testament same way these verses the brother has mentioned to you they all point out to the one person which is Muhammad if you say which show me where the name is you can find Jesus in the Old Testament but how can that be Holy Spirit you have not really Jesus is now mentioned by name exactly Eric heuristics aren't identified and when he shows up he's the only person in the history of mankind of fulfilled those prophecies so uh you know it's important that there are many points that we disagree with Muhammad peace be upon him in the context of what the Jews did he was a head of the state you know president of a country there has to be checks and balances if someone is rebelling and compromising the harmony the justice peace of a country they have to be certain punishment he let go of them many many times but he came after the life and the compromising of the society for that reason historically every scholar agree with that what happened to them was do do justice and even Jesus peace be upon him when he comes in the second coming says in the revelation chapter 19 he's going to slaughter those who will not believe in him how is that the Prince of Peace and the Old Testament Jesus killed many many people even the babies he commanded in the first samuel chapter 15 verse number 3 go to the Amika lights utterly destroy them the men the women the children and the infants Jesus is saying this this commandment how can he be a prince of peace but you may say there's a proper college okay he allow if you believe in him then there is no problem at all there is one God and he is the one guy why did he ordered killing of babies you're Jesus not the Quranic Jesus Quranic Jesus is sinless he's the Prince of Peace like all the prophets why did your Jesus commanded killing of innocent babies you mean in the Old Testament but he was the god of the Old Testament yes was he not the God of the oldest of the Old Testament had given these people plenty of opportunities to believe in him and when they got to the point where they weren't going to follow him they had to be done away with it was the judgment that God no said Jesus don't say yes and I say God in the Old Testament yeah Jesus didn't show up until the diesel doesn't not didn't exist okay so no we didn't take the wall it's just logical I've hit the wall okay you did yeah see and any commandment in the Old Testament was coming from Jesus okay so so important our brother ed I hope and pray that the oneness of God and Jesus as a prophet of God is what we believe and we invite you to believe that along with the Quran and Muhammad peace be upon him if you want to come back in the second sitting brotherhood we can discuss it it's up to you no I appreciate your time and the chance to speak and I'll be praying for both of you okay if you will also pray for you and you also pray to God directly not through an immediate or God helped me to find the truth I know you are one let me follow the faith of Jesus the faith of Jesus was absolute submission to one God thanks for coming may God guide you my brother and may God bless you man bye thank you very much

Channel: Sabeel Ahmed

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Id: lfpUf1VkFn4

Length: 67min 33sec (4053 seconds)

Published: Tue Mar 24 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/[deleted]]

That's Dr. Sabeel, I see him at my mosque all the time. He's a really nice guy.