Did Elke Shake Her Son Lucas to Death? Nonverbal Specialist Analyzes Body Language to Find Out

well hey there idiots welcome back to observe in today's video i'm going to be analyzing the non-verbal communication of steven and elka johnson in relation to the death of their three-month-old son lucas last may [Music] now this case is an ongoing case so everything that i'm saying here should be used exclusively for entertainment and educational value not in any court or professional situation also along with that nonverbal communication is on average 70 to 80 accurate with a little bit of leeway on either side it can be pushed all the way up to 100 accuracy and dropped down below the average guess so we're hoping to shoot for that upper percentage obviously now for a little bit of backstory for those of you who don't know steven and elka had lucas last march and elka who was 19 at the time was said to be reluctant to have a child at the time now lucas's short life was not one of eaves he had to go into the hospital multiple times and they had a timeline of things that will be discussed in this video and covered in this video but he landed at the hospital three months later and was being kept alive via machine and eventually they had to pull the plug and he was pronounced dead now the cause of death was due to him being shaken violently by someone and the only two people that had access to the child at the time were the mother and father now in today's video i'm going to be analyzing their nonverbal communication to see if either of them show any signs of guilt and if so what the reasons for that might be i will also let you know due to this being from dr phil's studio this has been heavily edited with color grading and also much of the b-roll has been removed to preserve the ability to keep this online so there will be large segments of this interview that will be in audio only form but we'll just have to deal with that because of the joys of copyright that's enough chit chat let's dive in so somehow between eight o'clock in the middle of the night he rallied took some food and then deteriorated again to the point of needing to go to the emergency room the next morning so i want to be able to point out some things that i'm noticing just non-verbally and speaking about them and their baseline stephen seems to be a more emotive person in general judging from the other footage that i was able to track down of him elka on the other hand is not as emotive i will point out their blink rates because this will pop up often throughout this video steven blinks a little bit more rapidly than the normal once every three to five seconds and elka nearly doesn't blink at all that is an oddity but a constant oddity in her nonverbal baseline so something that we want to be able to make note of along with that you can see that they are both positioned rather awkwardly in the frame they are not close to each other and they rarely reference each other as the other person is talking this can be due to nerves but it also could be due to the fact that their relationship is put under strain for this incident understandably so let's continue on yes well me and i don't think me and lucas we went i don't think we went to bed until 10 or something like that and i fed him a little bit and steven was in the living room and then that's when i laid him down and then what time during the night did you feed him about probably before we went to bed and then during in the middle of the night like he didn't eat but then i that's like i said i took him that morning so i don't okay so you didn't okay so here's an interesting thing that's hard to gather from this if you want to watch the full episode i have linked it in the description below so you can see all the different graphics and everything that dr phil has put into his show speaking on her nonverbal communication and i will be largely focusing on her nonverbal communication due to the fact that it is very strange compared to stevens now something i want to make clear before i talk about this is that everybody grieves differently and everybody displays their emotions differently in relation to trauma so just because she's acting strangely or not as we would act or as you would act so on and so forth that does not mean that she's guilty what we have to be able to do is gather more information establish some of the universal tells of the universal emotions and their displays and then compare at the very very end to see who is being more suspicious or more odd but now speaking on her body language at this moment during this time she does not use the common expression of recollection which is a narrowing of the eyes and looking off to the side it doesn't matter which side if you believe in directional eye cues i highly suggest you do a little bit more research because they have been largely disproven by a large amount of research so she looks off to the side but there is no narrowing but it still could be genuine recollection now what we're going to run into the issue with with her is that she changes her story multiple times and it seems as though she's trying to fit her story to the questions being asked rather than just responding with what the story was and then that being the answer to the question now this is common in people who are lying they want to be able to fit their story to the questions being asked as best as possible because they don't want to raise any suspicion but that in and of itself when it begins to be changed multiple times begins to be a red flag why would the truth be bent or twisted so many times unless it wasn't the truth let's keep watching feed him during the middle of the night you fed him before you went to bed yeah i guess that's what i was trying to say i don't okay because i thought you said that you fed him during the middle of the night i asked you if you slept with him he said well he's in the bassinet and i said well did you tend to him and and wake up and check on him during the night and you you said yes and you you did and you fed him but he didn't eat very much i'm sorry i i guess i meant to say that he did eat or he ate at 10 before he went to bed and i got up in the night and checked on him and stuff like that but i guess i i mean i guess i didn't quite um i guess understand what you were trying to say this is complicated to be able to understand why she didn't understand so here you can hear and this is kind of retroactively now because i had to take out part of the initial part of this interview where he asked the question did you get up and feed lucas during the night and she said yes earlier so now this is where dr phil's confusion is because now she's saying no and now she's acting like she's extremely confused to a very very simple question did you feed him when you got up in the middle of the night not did you feed him before you went to bed not did you feed him in the morning it's when you got up in the middle of the night it's a very straightforward question and it requires a very straightforward answer which she fails to give and she's trying to chalk it up too i didn't understand the question at all now there is the possibility that due to nerves due to the knowledge that this is going to be on national television and due to the fact that she's talking to dr phil who is kind of a celebrity then it could be that she's just having difficulty she's having difficulty computing normally and speaking normally possibly not likely due to the fact that the question itself was extremely basic so she has changed her story which you can't see it but already twice hear what you can see and another time from before and that is a red flag in regards to honesty it's not that she altered the story to be able to maybe add in more detail or say hold on no this was a different day or anything like that she changed it to try to fit what dr phil brought up before because now she has told multiple professionals before this that she did not get up and feed the baby he hasn't been fed since 10. then she told dr phil yes i did do that and then she told dr phil wait no i didn't do that but maybe i was just confused by your questioning of a very basic straightforward question and so she's being caught up and this could be her being caught up in her own lie possibly it's way too early on to be able to establish that but it is a flag that we have made note of and we have to keep track of as we continue on did y'all make a decision to have another baby together or was this a surprise it was a surprise it wasn't a decision that we had made so in that you can hear his words are not flowing cleanly there's some hesitations and there's some stutterings which that can be a sign of deceit but it is a sign of psychological processing mental processing which is not uncommon he hasn't actually spoken much throughout this entire interview so it is common for people who are initially starting in an interview or in a speaking situation like this to have more halts in their language but non-verbally speaking while he's saying that it's a no you can see slight small no shakes of his head which in america the left to right shake means no and the up and down shake means yes so since they are american and that fits in their culture then this would be an indicator of authenticity due to synchronization of their body language to their words so i would believe that by the way they are having another child already now during this interview there is some claims of what elka has said in regards to lucas and the new child that are also fairly telling we'll see if it comes up if it doesn't i'll talk about it myself but from what we can see steven's body language during that time was synchronized which would be an indicator of authenticity stephen how do you feel about it it's a lot of mixed emotions because i'm still not over lucas and i don't think i ever will be you can hear it in his voice it's the knot in your throat the lump in your throat the tightness that's caused by pain or grief or sadness or the fact that you might begin to cry soon this is extremely common in people who are grieving the halted flow of speech is still existent so perhaps that's part of his baseline maybe he doesn't talk very smoothly but from other footage that i've seen he does talk rather smoothly so in this area it's still something that i've made note of that he has these halts but i also can hear the emotion in his voice as he's trying to maintain composure during this time this would be expected in this sort of situation but as i said before we can't really go off of what we would do we have to go off of what they would do regardless he is displaying what would be considered a universal display of grief so that's something that we can add to his nonverbal repertoire and this wasn't something you wanted either elka right you weren't ready to do this yet no i wasn't ready um but i mean i already i was pregnant and i didn't so you can see when she's saying no i wasn't ready you can watch over on stephen's face and he has to do some movements to loosen up his jaw muscles which means that they were probably clinched before not necessarily but the logical processing of that is that when somebody does something to loosen something that means that it was tight or strained before and those clinched jaw muscles are a common tell a frustration you yourself can think of a time that you are frustrated it's quite literally biting backwards or anger or just clinching your jaw in frustration so there's likely some sort of animosity between these two in regards to the child and elka so far has been displaying almost nothing she sounds almost trance-like with her speech she uses some verbatim repetition from what dr phil has said and her emotional state is vastly unclear and while this could be in regards to her innocence it is almost more of a red flag in that she is showing no signs of grief or any display of sadness on any level even on the micro subconscious emotional level that you might see through nonverbal seepages in her eyebrows eyes or corners of her mouth it's completely stationary while this is odd this isn't damning so to speak she still has hope to be an innocent person in this but from her answers her story changes and the nonverbal displays that we've seen so far it's all stacking up against her so far let's keep watching want to have for have an abortion or anything like that um right but um lucas will always be with us well i do have a statement from steven's sister here um this was dated on march 7th and she says i'll never forget when elka said that she was not ready to have a child because she was just too young this is when she worked at steak and shake in our local community because i had asked her how things were with my brother stephen and i asked if she ever wanted future children the whole pregnancy she seemed disconnected elka was complaining about stephen not helping at night and sleeping on the couch because he worked 12 to 14 hour shifts so i will note some things when it pans back over and we can finally see them again in the footage there she has a swallow in regards to what's being said about her which they're not positive things they would be very damning or condemning things in regards to this case she's being talked about as if she didn't want children or wasn't prepared for children and she has a postural shift and she also has a pretty evident swallow in there as well both of those can be signs of nerves or agitation in regards to that now this could be because she's just hearing somebody more or less kind of trash talking her and it being brought up on national television but the other alternative to that is that it could be that it's true and she's very uncomfortable that it's being brought to light i have to keep both of those in mind as i continue forward because they help me understand who elka is and who steven is in relation to her throughout this entire interview by the end of this i'll be able to give you somewhat of an opinion but as i said before the opinion side of things is going to be separate from the science because the science is limited in regards to one single interview and my inability to interact with them personally so we'll get a gray answer with that and i'll give you as black-and-white of an answer as i possibly can here at the very end let's continue watching she consistently complained about lucas being fussy when my brother was around she acted completely different it was like a light switch in her personality he only saw the loving side elka had taken the baby out of the house so it says he only saw the loving side before that he raises his eyebrow one eyebrow just slightly which would be a curiosity expression and then shortly after that he lowers both of them together which could be a confusion or frustration expression as well regardless he's not privy to this information and it's showing up on his face so this might be the first time that he's heard these sort of allegations towards elka and coming out on national television that's where you can see it lightly play out in his subconscious movements of his face while he was sleeping and claimed the dog had jumped on the baby and that's why he is fussy and needed medical attention i went to my brother's house and told him elka needed him at the hospital and he had no clue the baby was sick or hurt lucas didn't make it elka seemed so much lighter and free meanwhile my brother was heartbroken and distraught she mentioned to me that they would just have to be careful who watches i want to be able to point something out here as far as emotional responses to what's being said so dr phil is doing an intentional thing here where he's reading a very controversial subject a very controversial body of words here to be able to see how they react and for me that's very handy because he's basically doing what i would be doing in that situation to begin with so as you can see on stephen's face he's looking down to the side but you can see the action in his eyebrows and his eyes they show pain or grief they could also be seen as maybe exhaustion or weariness as well regardless they are matching what is being said and the weight of what's being said meanwhile if you pan over to elka here she is just sitting there it's almost as if she's waiting in line once again i use this again and again for people who are very detached she's waiting in line at a dmv waiting to get her driver's license she looks bored uninterested and extremely detached now as i said before everybody grieves differently and that's very true in this situation she is more or less being questioned on whether or not she killed her child and she's showing us very evidently through her displays that she doesn't care that she's being questioned about it now why is that we might ask is she innocent and is that why she has no reason to show any display or is it because she just doesn't care in general well if steven's sister's word is anything to take for it it's more likely that she doesn't care but we have to really take steven's sister's word with a grain of salt because she's going to stand up for her brother rather than her brother's wife so kind of keep that in mind as you move forward but it is still something that we have to take in as information to be able to consider for the entirety of the interview not just honing in on one tiny subject or another let's keep watching their next baby i guess meanwhile my brother was willing to do anything to get justice for his son and has been willing to do so since day one now i want to be very clear that that your mother and your sister are advocating for you and they're both being critical of you elka and so i i i just so i will say something here obviously dr phil's calling out that mother and sister are obviously advocating for brother and son not for elka but in regards to them being critical to her we see another swallow pop up so we're trying to keep track of when these specific tells come out and what they're related to so that when they come out later on we can have a log of why they came out before why that might be later so in this sort of situation where she's having more criticism pointed at her she has two instances now of having a swallow in there which is a sign of nerves or agitation so if that pops up again that substantial very over-the-top and overt swallow that gulp then we might be able to infer that she is agitated about what's being said so that just helps us understand the rest of the interview more clearly now for those of you who don't know because it's not really covered here and i didn't say it super clearly in the background side of things what happened the morning of is that lucas was showing signs of perhaps having brain injuries that morning he was not eating he was not making normal baby sounds and to put it lightly he just looked different this is very common for babies who have been shaken so instead of waking up stephen elka took the baby in quietly by herself in the morning to the er which is odd that is strange regardless if you don't have a child consider your pet being in a similar situation if your pet was acting very strangely not eating and looks wrong and then you secretly sneak it out of the house and take it to the vet or do you let your significant other or whoever's living with you know what's going on and then go most people will say that they will go and let the other person know before going off to the er the er is a fairly big event going to an emergency vet clinic is a fairly big event so the fact that elka decided to keep it quiet and not let steven know that she was going was suspicious for me i'd have to ask why from the behavior standpoint of things why did she do that for what possible reason could there be maybe stephen really needs to sleep he really needs to get a lot of sleep and rushing your three-month-old baby to the er doesn't even compare to the amount of sleep that steven needed to get that could be it alternatively she wanted to go quietly because there's something else there those are pretty much the only two options let's keep watching want to make it clear that people have to take what your sister and your mother say stephen with a grain of salt because they're clearly advocating for you and trying to protect you and elka did you say that the dog jumped on the baby and when did you say that um the dog did jump on the baby and stephen was there when the dog jumped and was this on the 10th or the the day before it is fascinating verbally speaking here so dr phil refers to the baby as the baby and so as before elka verbatim repeats him saying the dog did jump on the baby keep in mind this is still fairly recent that they have lost their son lucas now correct me if i'm wrong but parents out there if you were in this situation would you refer to your son as lucas his name which you gave to him or would you say the baby because dr phil said the baby i can't speak on that front because i don't have a child so i'm not going to assume but due to the large number of people here this will be an accurate statistic rather than just people assuming so you let me know in the comments below would you have said your child's name in regards to that or would you have repeated dr phil verbatim and said the baby it's just a question that i would like to be able to ask and i would like to hear your feedback on this is a common practice in deceit as well as a person will verbally distance themselves from whatever they are talking about for instance consider when bill clinton said i did not have sex with that woman that woman is a verbal distancing from that woman and in this case elk is saying the baby instead of my child or lucas that is another instance of verbal distancing from that baby so it's an unfortunate display and it is another tick against elka in this sort of situation but it is not concrete evidence that she is the killer we still have to gather more you took the baby to the hospital is this the same time frame no it wasn't i don't remember the exact time or like the day of when that did happen but i do remember it happening it was uh when my other son's grandma was here visiting and seeing lucas and my dog gets really excited and jumps interesting so here we hear the correct verbiage coming from stephen he says my other son because the other son is not involved in this storyline whatsoever this is about lucas but then when it comes around to lucas he uses lucas's name which they gave to him which is a sign of connection instead of the baby which elka used from what we can see so far steven had a connection with lucas and elka did not and due to her other behavioral patterns that she's sewn so far this is not going well for her she's showing far more signs of being deceitful dishonest and detached than she is of being in grief and being attached to her son and sad that he's gone that's not good news for elka let's keep watching around and she had jumped from behind her and landed on lucas i just i just do not remember the date when that did happen but it wasn't mother's day it wasn't the day before lucas went into the hospital with serious brain damage no it was not on the temp this is an open case so that is important to note as well you can see that during that response it was very quick and very synchronized to be fair this could have two different reasons for that one it could be because he's rehearsed it but from the rest of that he hasn't rehearsed what he's saying you could tell by how many halts and hesitations and um's and us there are in there as he's trying to formulate what he's going to say as he goes along that's common in genuine recollection as you try to hash through and figure out what your memories actually are telling you i would believe him on that front during this entire time not shockingly elka is sitting there completely detached from the situation it's under investigation by the kansas bureau of investigation and stephen has acknowledged he's the prime suspect here and i want to look at a timeline because if we look at the key events according to stephen here on february 7th lucas was born on april 27th the doctor says that lucas was underweight and the hospital notified the agency but on the 29th a second opinion says no no this baby's normal weight i don't even why they would involve interesting right when that second opinion is brought up elka does another classic swallow that has only come up before in times of pressure and agitation so why does it come up there why is it centered around that second opinion also in regards to that why is that second opinion if you look at this timeline why is that second opinion the only positive response to the baby's condition lucas was born then a doctor says that he was underweight and then they get a second opinion that said no he's totally fine and then another doctor says that lucas's ribs have been fractured and then he doesn't eat and then shortly thereafter he's dead so that one second opinion is an anomaly in the story the timeline itself and then elka has her common and notable gulp centered around that second opinion i wouldn't buy onto that second opinion's source it seems to be odd and it does not fit in with the rest of the evidence and elka's nonverbal communication shows that she's agitated or nervous around it question is why logical play out is it's likely not true let's keep watching dcf in approximately april 30th stephen says that lucas had fractured ribs that were dated that on the 11th he was told that there were fractured ribs that were dated that they were healing which means they were at least a couple of weeks old now prior to may 10th when lucas was fussy so during this time stephen is blinking rather rapidly at least once a second maybe a little bit more but he's blinking rapidly during those times that is a sign of psychological processing he's also narrowing his eyes and looking off to the side this would be recollection not everybody does this but it has been shown by ai to exist regularly in people's expression base while recollecting so if he's doing that that's a good sign he's trying to follow along with this in his head if you look again at elka she has shown no emotional change she's not trying to recollect and she's not emoting with the situation could that be her tentatively yes that could just be part of her baseline but from the other footage that i was able to find which is limited but the other footage i was able to find she does emote just fine she can smile she can laugh she can emote with the seven universal emotions that everybody has just fine but she's not here and she's not in regards to these very intense questions and very implicating questions it's an oddity let's keep watching barely ate and stephen was with the baby from three to eight and uh elko went to bed uh with lucas after they noticed that he was not himself and was making guttural sounds then may 11th 15 hours later elka took lucas to the er without waking stephen up steven still asleep two days later may 13th stephen and elka make the very heartbreaking decision to take lucas off life support because they're told that the child is essentially brain dead and there's no hope whatsoever of regaining any function once again look at steven's eyes and his eyebrows they are telling in this sort of situation you can see light inflammation around his eyes which is common before tears or deering tears or after tears and you can see that his eyebrows have a light furrowing and a light upward turn in the middle where the glabella is also common in sadness or grief during this entire time of a very traumatic recollection of a very short life of lucas elka the mother shows nothing she doesn't demote she doesn't seem to care at all i know that i have said this again and again and again but i'll continue to say it just for the sake of making sure that everything is kept into perspective people emote differently to various traumas and there is no universal way of telling that somebody is grieving there are universal expressions of grief that if displayed you can fairly well rely on them meaning the emotion itself but that doesn't mean that every person will display them that being said elka's complete detachment from the situation begs more or less one of two things either one she's completely detached and she doesn't care or two she might be completely dissociated from the event which people who have gone through trauma can dissociate from events that doesn't seem to be the case here but it is a possibility that we're keeping in mind this this precious child died in your arms stephen correct yes that's correct that's when he when he passed you could hear it in his voice yes that's correct as he's trying to work past the knot or lump in his throat caused by grief and tears meanwhile she's bored as all get out at least from what we can tell nonverbally let's continue yeah and i want to be very clear here elka you're very straight up clear you say you did not hurt this child accidentally or on purpose in any way whatsoever before she answers we need to be able to keep our eye out for things to pay attention to one we would like to be able to see if she says no that her head has micro movements of no also dr phil words it to where he said are you dead certain positive there's no possibility for a gray area it's a black or white answer did you or did you not so in relation to that she should respond with a black or white answer yes i did or no i did not those should be the answers that she gives let's see what she gives and then we'll figure out what we feel about it afterwards they can say what they want about your parenting or your decision to wake him up that morning or whatever but you're saying i did not hurt my child period paragraph didn't happen you're very clear about that correct yes okay and uh okay so he switched it around to where i did not hurt my child as that true or false and she says yes now interesting things about her nonverbal communication during this time first her tone changes dramatically instead of it being a confident and rich yes she has a very shallow very high pitched and fragile yes and then immediately presses her lips together thereafter she has no head movement she has no blinking she has no other noticeable non-verbal tells during that time but those two tells show that she doesn't believe what she's saying or she doesn't have confidence in what she's saying it's showing a high level of nerves and that tonal change that pitch change in there as well that also indicates intense nerves which would be a sign of insecurity or possible insincerity i would not take that response at its face value i would want to push more at that just from that small display there because she doesn't sound convinced of the words herself so why would i be convinced of them myself i would ask more questions let's continue you spent mother's day at your grandmother's house with family and you had lucas with you interesting she has another swallow in there which you can see and then she also blinks twice rather rapidly and all of it's being centered around what she did on mother's day the question is why why is that the case what happened on mother's day that we don't know about that she does that caused this odd display was there some conflict during that does she know something that we don't know we're not sure but something happened during that day that we don't know we're not privy to um and so there were a lot of witnesses around you at that time and there was another swallow in there as well so there's been two swallows two blanks all centered around mother's day now the swallows in the past have always been centered around agitation pressure and nerves so why are they popping up prevalently here it's a very good question that we don't know the answer to you didn't see him every minute but you were around and you were cognizant of what was going on so you were there with people and people were there with you so there were a lot of people around observing you that can attest to the fact that you were with your child and things were moving along normally correct yes correct as far as your stewardship of the child so she says yes correct she leans back just slightly which isn't a big deal that could also be just to open up your airway a little bit when you're speaking because you can slouch loud and it gets harder to speak unless you open it up that could be in there she also has a partial smile for the first time ever and this is interesting to me why is she now having this partial smile in regards to this why was she nervous about it she also has another gulp afterwards so she has a small smile she has multiple nervous displays and she has these odd postural changes in there my question is why especially the smile why does the smile exist there now smiles could be in regards to fond memories smiles are directly related to the emotion of happiness and the following emotions that surround it but smiles are related to happiness so she has a smile there we have to ask why does she have nerves and a smile in regards to her being seen and noted at mother's day events why would that be could it be a duping delight sort of situation to where she is telling a lie and this helps her lie and she's smiling because of it perhaps could it be because she has an alibi for that situation now so that people have seen her there everybody has seen her and this might be her washing her hands clean because she has an alibi it could be in regards to that it could be in regards to fond memories of the day itself but that doesn't fit in with the nervousness centered around it regardless the nerves with the smile is an odd spike in her non-verbal communication that i have to keep track of and considering the rest of the context i would lean towards it being something that she's seeing it as getting her out of the repercussions of her actions perhaps that makes more sense in context than the other options but it's still not a solid scientific fact let's continue watching you uh you turned him over in good shape and uh then things went downhill from there now did it happen during that six-hour period or did it happen sometime earlier and it just obtained at that time and we're going to talk about that uh in just a few minutes when we come back because i'm here with melissa who is steven's mother stephen and elka who are the parents of lucas who died tragically on may 13 2020. the authorities have made the decision that there was foul play here this child developed a subdural hematoma lapsed into a coma lost brain function and never recovered and they had to take the child off life support and i'm talking to these parents about what happened and uh elka so making a note of the tiny little blip of them that we actually get to see there stephen doesn't seem to be emoting but he does have a postural change he has multiple blinks in there and you can still see his eyebrows are lightly furrowed this is partially his baseline due to just the shape and natural falling of his eyebrows but you can also see that they are lightly tensed in and of themselves once again in regard to elka we have seen absolutely nothing there's no response there's no emotional response there's no emoting at all on her face or body very interesting the lack of activity in and of itself is a red flag let's continue you and stephen grieve differently uh would you say that's true that the two of you grieve very differently so she already nodded during that time you could barely barely see it but she already nodded so we already know that she's gonna say yes to this yeah that's true and you know and i i want people to know that interesting she says yeah that's true and a slight smile of contempt enters her face and this is different from the smile earlier the smile earlier reached both corners of the mouth this one is only on one side that is a sign of contempt that is a moral or intellectual superiority display that's what contempt is so our question is why why does that pop up here why does she have contempt showing up in regards to how they grieve we don't know but it's definitely not the kind of emotion that you would hope to see from a grieving mother contempt is never in that repertoire especially in regards to the other parent who is also grieving contempt has no place there why does she have moral or intellectual superiority in regards to the grieving process very interesting people do grieve differently and i know this has been many months since this has happened and uh a lot of people would say i'd be crying every day for the rest of my life and uh i'm sure to some degree both of you cry inside every day and will some for the rest of your life and i i give you both the acknowledgement i'm frustrated that at this point it's not showing their faces this would be another one of those very implicating questioning and sentencing areas dr phil is saying i'm sure that you also have cried maybe even inside and you will continue for the rest of your lives i would love to see their emotional responses to that but i don't have the ability to do that because it wasn't on the original footage and it's not in this reactionary footage either so i don't know i don't get to see what their responses are to that line of thought i think it would be a telling line of thought to be able to see their responses to but we're limited here that people do grieve differently and i don't judge either one of you for that what did y'all think about what dr jenny had to say i mean it makes a lot of sense does that lead you to believe that this baby was shaken yes that it does and that was we pretty much already know that from the hospital goodland so he's showing a lot of displays of insecurity here shrugging he has halts in his phrasing again that weren't there before and just so you know there's an entire segment where a specialist comes on and talks about physical trauma to babies and so on and so forth and that's what they're referring to now if you want to be able to see that just watch the video in the description below but he's showing a lot of insecurity around that and i don't know why i would have to ask what is this centered around is he being insincere is he telling a lie or is he feeling simply uncomfortable speaking about the terms that his son came to pass away we're not sure but it is something that we have made note of the one in children's they all both have told us that it was the only explanation of those types of injuries it's not something that actually really happens on an accident elka is part so he has some eye shifting in there looking off to the side breaking eye contact strangely it still could be related to nerves he also has a swallow in there and this is neither implicating nor excusing him from the situation it's just more information unfortunately stephen doesn't give us much to be able to work off of in regards to implication we don't see too much that could make us assume that he might be the killer and elka doesn't give us much to make us assume that she might be in grief so there's not much information for us to go off of in this which could be considered odd it seems less odd in stephen's case because he has shown emotional depth on some level he has shown emotional reactivity to various topics to the idea of losing his son so on and so forth and then elka has just shown almost nothing at all it's very strange if you suspect that stephen lost his temper and and shook this baby i mean he was well when according to you and stephen he was well when you dropped him off at two and not well when you returned at eight and it seems no one was around the baby she swallows in her lips part she's only done that before when she's about to speak and also the swallow has only shown up before in areas of agitation nerves pressure so on and so forth so there's something going on here hopefully her words will clarify that but there's something that's about to happen from her she's about to say something fairly weighty let's see what it is for six hours except stephen how do you reason through that in your mind elka um i don't really know um but every time i saw like stephen with lucas he was a really good dad to him you know the reason i will say this this is the first time that i can remember correct me if i'm wrong first time that i can remember of elka saying lucas's name which is interesting that it's been 12 minutes of my reactionary video and much longer of the actual interview itself that she has mentioned her child's name very interesting she also doesn't directly answer the question she says i know that when i've ever seen him before he's always been a good dad and that doesn't really help and so in that sort of situation with her dodging the question that heavily then that could be telling and there's okay so i'll i'll break down my my processing for this say she said yeah i think he did it that would be very outright and overt response and there would be a whole slew of nonverbal tells to hopefully be able to add to that add weight to it in context and we would watch him as well but she didn't do that instead she said well i know that he's been a great dad outside of that which could be an indicator that she doesn't believe that steven did it and she doesn't want to say no i don't think he did it because that then implicates her which she doesn't want to be implicated if she did it she doesn't want to be implicated for doing it she doesn't want attention brought to her for that so when he asked did steven do it and she answers well i know he was a good dad she's not saying yes he did it she's refusing to say that that could be just born out of her compassion for stephen perhaps or it just could be her answering strangely but it does make sense in that context so it's an interesting thing that she just did verbally there and it can be telling but it's obviously not concrete enough to be able to say yes she's obviously guilty or no she's not i'm asking this stephen is who are the possible people with access to the child stephen you had access elka you had access uh there we'll refer to this individual as a trusted babysitter because i don't want to name somebody that's not here to speak for themselves but there's a trusted babysitter uh that had access to the child and was around the child there were some stephen has some odd blinking patterns here his eyes seem to be dry perhaps or he has the need to blink often now the physiological reason for that is that his eyes are dry and he needs to blink or he's tearing up and he needs to blink but the psychological reasoning for that could be that he has to process or something is happening in his mental processing in relation to that he also has a small nod in regards to bringing up the babysitter does he perhaps suspect the babysitter of having something to do with this the babysitter's not on the show so we can't really go through that line of questioning there's no way that i can see the babysitter to understand of whether or not they are guilty or even suspect in it but it doesn't seem as if they are also it would kind of imply that the babysitter was there overnight as well due to the timing of the injuries that caused lucas's death so it's just fascinating i find it fascinating that steven's body language spikes this way in regards to the mention of the babysitter family members at your grandmother's house that morning is that correct yes that's correct do you guys know something about this if there's something that you haven't said or you haven't told me or made public if if either of you had a weak moment if you've unintentionally done something here if an accident occurred if anything happened is there anything that you know that we haven't talked about that that we need to i was always careful with him i don't know like if maybe someone just accidentally bumped his head or accidentally maybe like pressed on like a soft spot or something these are very specific things to do with the head of the baby which is common in these sorts of situations but i find it interesting that she says i've always been really careful and i don't know if someone did specific things very specific things that was never the question it's interesting verbiage that she uses here and very specific verbiage why is my question why does she go into those specific explanations for things i don't know but it is an oddity and maybe could have caused something like this i'm not sure i wish there was anything more i can add but after having my first son they at least the hospital here made us sit through the purple crying and talking about shaking baby syndrome and when it's okay to set them down and walk away and i've always taken a lot of pride myself for being a very patient person so there's nothing you can think of stephen and you know elka you mentioned like pushing on the soft spot or something is there is there anything that you know maybe a child was playing around and did something like that on mother's day he was around a few kids but i don't know if they would have maybe done something like that stephen as i told you so you can see again the small smile coming up centered around mother's day coming from elka that is very curious to me why does that small smile spike there why does it surface there and like i said before there is such a thing called duping delight as proven by dr paul ekman and what is the case in these situations is that a person who is lying will have a small smile when they feel like they have successfully pulled off a lie and that would fit in this situation if elka has done something terrible to her son lucas and she needs an alibi a reason to not be implicated for that it would make sense that mother's day where she was around other people would be her alibi her way out and in that case duping delight fits perfectly otherwise it's just a nervous smile which it still could be people smile in response to nerves it's an odd but common reaction so it could be that but that doesn't line up with the rest of everywhere else where she has been nervous it only shows up centered around mother's day so either one it's a duping delight sort of situation two it's a nervous smile centered exclusively around the nerves of mother's day which would then be a why is that the case or three she's having fond memories of mother's day which doesn't fit with the rest of the context out of those three the more likely and more supported version of that is duping delight but it's not the only option your best defense is to give them an alternative explanation if it isn't you then what did happen they're not going to find that you're going to find that for them just saying i didn't do it's not going to get you there i i i know that as well that i know saying i didn't do it just saying that without being able to provide another alternative isn't a great defense so i am aware of that and that's why i've been trying to do everything that i can to find something palpable that they'll take and look at and be like oh we'll look into this yeah you two need to talk and you need to figure out if there's an alternative explanation here if you didn't do this somebody did and you guys need to deconstruct this and figure out who and where it could have been do you have any doubt about each other i don't have any doubts about elka okay so we're gonna wrap it up there because actually shortly thereafter the first episode of this closes down and it starts having copyright and music and b-roll and all that so i couldn't use it anyways so we're gonna go ahead and cut it off there he says i don't have any doubts about elka and he has a lot of his stammering and stuttering and insecurity gestures in regards to that so my question then again is why does that pop up there his nonverbal communication shows that he's not feeling confident in those words so why on earth would we so let's go ahead and summarize what we saw non-verbally from both of them and then i'll give you my opinion so speaking from stephen we saw multiple points of emotional responses to the recollection of trauma we saw genuine recollection expressions and common phrasings and patterning centered around a person trying to tell the truth he has not shied away from bringing attention to himself acknowledging the fact that he has no alibi and he knows that's bad so he's trying to figure out what is going on these are all things that are common in people who are being genuine who are not at fault not guilty then we see elka who has very few emotional displays a repeated tell of a gulp centered around areas of pressure agitation and nerves then she also has times of contempt in regards to the grieving process and she has a small smile that pops up every time mother's day and the activities they're in are brought up these are all curious as well we have to try to figure out what these possibly could mean from stephen we seem to see synchronized and genuine body language from elka it seems to be the exact opposite if anything it's extremely and overtly detached now that's all that the science can show us if this was a case that i was personally working on i would sit down and ask them more questions and continue to probe and push at these areas that seem questionable i would want to ask elka about the day the mother's day events see if i can get her to recount everything and then see if i can find any inconsistencies that she has changed her story which i forgot to mention that she also has multiple instances of changing her story centered around the patterns of lucas right before his death that's odd as well so i would like to ask her those questions and i would like to push stephen harder in areas as well now let's go ahead and shift over to my opinion side of things based off of what i've seen i feel fairly certain that elka is guilty she had no emotional responses to the mention of her child she used verbal distancing in regards to her child and she seems off all the way around which seeming off is not science obviously people can seem off and you can have an incorrect gut feeling but based off of the context and the evidence that we have gathered i am all but certain that elka killed lucas once again this is meant exclusively for education and entertainment purposes it should not be used in any legal setting or professional setting so that's my video let me know in the comments below did i miss something did you disagree with what i said do you have experience outside of this especially in regards to child rearing that i am not privy to how would you respond in this sort of situation with the massive numbers of people that can respond to this that will give us a demographic rather than people assuming it's a very big difference between those two if you have five people that say yeah i would do this that's just an opinion but if you have 5 000 people that say i would do this that's a statistic so let me know in the comments below how would you have responded in these situations and that will offer clarity in and of itself i hope you did enjoy this video i will continue to follow this case as more evidence comes out and more footage comes out and if you did like it let me know in the comments below because then i will know whether or not i should continue posting videos for it so let me know if you did like this video hit the like button if you want to see more like it hit subscribe hit the bell if you would like to be able to see things like impromptu live streams or the videos a little bit sooner if you would like to be able to see some exclusive content follow the links down there for patreon you want to sign up for audible use my audible link and that helps the channel out and i have some merch down there as well but those are all of my pitches to you and uh that's all that i've got for the day my name is logan and you have been oh so awesome as you always are and i will see you in the next video cheers guys [Music] you

Channel: Observe

Views: 383,120

Rating: 4.9270897 out of 5

Keywords: Logan Portenier, Observe, Mentalist, Lie to Me, body language, nonverbal, psychology, React, Analysis, lying, detection, reading, behavior

Id: ictOq6DbbMo

Length: 57min 5sec (3425 seconds)

Published: Tue May 11 2021