What RUINED VeggieTales? - The Tragic Fall of Bob and Larry

okay larry it's time for the theme song uh yeah bob what do i do hmm let's see i know you play the guitar bob i don't have any hands oh you're right well okay well you play this i don't want to play that i'll look silly oh come on it'll be fun nope not gonna do it it's for the kids oh okay but they better not laugh all right better get on out there a few months ago i got nostalgic for all things veggie tales and it got me to thinking whatever happened to it you know veggie tales that christian cartoon with the cg vegetables who would reenact stories from the bible well i looked into it what i discovered was one of the most disastrous failures of a studio in animation history folks have i got a story for you i thought that veggie tales fell in popularity because they removed god from the reboots something about nbc and netflix downplaying the religious stuff and that's why veggietales failed right oh guys oh there is so much more to it than that on one hand you have a show that was truly groundbreaking on multiple levels veggietales was the most successful christians children's franchise of all time and was also the most successful to video series in history there was even a time when it was one of the most popular kids video series in the world and was only second to pokemon i guess pikachu was a little too strong on top of that veggietales was also a trailblazer when it came to the world of animation and was one of the earliest computer animated franchises their first episode came out in december of 1993 two years before toy story i mean we're talking about a show that was so popular that even non-christian people would happily watch it believe me when i say that's incredibly rare more often than not secular audiences don't really partake in christian content i mean to which i can't imagine why it's so good don't you want to watch bible man what the hell was that but despite the accomplishments of veggietales it also suffered some devastating defeats again i thought that removing god from the series was the only thing that ruined it no let me get the list there was poor management massive layoffs failed spin-offs unfair distribution deals creating a movie that cost twice its original budget bankruptcy lawsuits and ultimately broken dreams and whose dreams were these well that would be phil fisher the creator of big idea entertainment and veggie tales this guy was taken for a ride for an absolute ride and essentially had his creation ripped from his arms seriously i have never felt more pity for a person in the animation industry than phil but phil is very open about his downfall and even wrote a book about it it's called me myself and bob a book that was so informative and good that i read it twice no joke this is the hardest i've ever gone researching a topic i mean i grew up with veggietales and it means a lot to me i i rewatched the episodes listened to the soundtrack i got to interview phil i strictly ate meat for the past five months just to be safe and i even bought these puppets of the characters from ebay because i i actually don't know i i felt a calling i i just like they were whispering my name [Music] so let's take a closer look at what ruined veggietales when it comes to the fall of veggietales no one played a bigger role than that of phil fisher the creator of the show now for the record there's a co-creator named mike naraki but we'll get to him in a bit for now let's talk about phil and how this quiet nerdy kid would go on to make history and what better place to start than the very beginning in the beginning god created them phil was born in june of 1966 in muscatine iowa and belonged to a very christian family sunday service sunday school awanas the works heck phil's great grandfather on his mother's side was a famous radio preacher the reverend r.r brown of omaha nebraska which let's be real here sounds like a rapper's name he's spitting those biblical rhymes with fire and brimstone and you better believe if you're passing me that auxiliary chord in 1923 we're gonna be listening to rr phil was a weird kid his words not mine he said he loved to build things watch tv and that he had no shortage of weird thoughts thoughts that he would share and would get him in trouble with sunday school teachers they saw phil as a class clown and warned his parents of his behavior according to him he didn't want to disappoint his parents so he became very quiet instead but still had these weird thoughts dancing around his head instead of hanging out with other kids phil would play with puppets and would experiment with his family's video equipment by making stop motion films with his toys but when phil turned nine years old something happened that would heavily impact him his parents got divorced this truly shook phil to his core and the ramifications of his parents failed marriage would follow him for the rest of his life it would even play a role in the rise and fall of veggietales legit something broke and filled the day his father left the family and phil would never look at relationships the same way again why trust people when they could just leave your life just so you know divorce is a very big theme in the story so keep that in mind as we move along phil would remain with his mother and his siblings as he grew up but the family moved to glen ellen illinois following the divorce that's where phil would spend his high school years and will continue to advance his skills and movie making and special effects as a matter of fact phil was quickly realizing that he had a real talent and passion for understanding how things worked specifically with films movies such as star wars and tron heavily inspired him to pursue this path and to see where computers and programming could take him he even taught himself how to use mathematical equations to make a ball bounce on his atari 400 according to phil quote computers were infinitely reliable unlike people and then it arrived mtv was a game changer both for television and fulfill see new video music you can't see anywhere else new contests new specials new guest bj's new news he was blown away by the creative aspect of mtv and what it was bringing to the table music videos and content that broke all the rules to an artist like phil it was a revelation to a christian like phil it was more like the book of revelation pelvic thrusting curves on woman beavis and head phil was very alarmed at the ethical implications of mtv and what the channel was broadcasting into the very homes of red-blooded americans [Music] the soul of the nation was now at risk and mtv was the catalyst that made phil realize what his purpose in life would be to use filmmaking as a way to reach out to people and bring them closer to god it would be both his job and his ministry and how did phil begin this journey by dropping out of college he went to st paul bible college for three semesters but then was kicked out for failing chapel phil dude how did you fail chapel all you gotta do is read the bible out loud here i'll do it in the beginning gosh created the in the beginning gosh created the heave up in the beginning gosh created the heavens and the uh it's not gosh is it in the beginning gosh created the heavens ah son of a but college was not a complete loss for phil for it was there that he met the future co-creator of veggietales mike naraki the two were on a puppet team at the college and would go to churches and nursing homes to put on shows [Music] they would even write scripts together to which one would become the future basis for a veggietale short called the forgivomatic needless to say phil and mike really clicked but both of them would fail college and eventually went their separate ways but of course only for a bit their paths would eventually cross in the near future but in the meanwhile phil here needed a job and went back to the suburbs of chicago to search for one but so phil was now a college dropout and was on the hunt for a job in 1985 he found one at a christian video production company in chicago there he would duplicate vhs cassettes remember those [Music] and he would work the graveyard shift but according to phil he preferred that he got to be alone and could spend his free time at work reading up on other equipment and teaching himself how it works as a matter of fact that's how he became a video editor in 1986 the first wave of computer animated companies started to arrive and were being hired to create commercials for companies well it turns out that phil's boss wanted to get in on this growing market and bought something called the bosch fgs4000 one of the first commercially available computer animation systems phil's boss even paid to train him to understand the equipment around this time mike came back into the picture and joined up at phil's company soon after that the boss made the decision to move the office into the heart of chicago and phil and mike both decided to move downtown with it so there you have phil and mike two young guys working at a production company in chicago but then they had the idea to make their own little project on the side called a day at the beach it featured phil and mike wearing sunglasses as they drove a banana car through a cartoon world and a bunch of other silly antics in a way if you replace phil and mike for bob and larry you're kind of looking at the very first veggietales film but after three years of working at the production company phil decided that it was time to set off and launch his own business he wanted to play a larger role when it came to the creative process and marketing of a company in february of 1989 phil launched graphic studios and started to look for business opportunities and clients to work with now a big challenge phil initially faced was affording equipment so he struck a deal with another production company where he would buy time to use their equipment but at night but then a certain someone entered phil's life someone very special lisa lisa and phil originally met at a bible conference and really hit it off like really well because the two got married after dating for like what two years and then they had a kid on the way and to make matters worse phil was broke but money isn't everything yes it is yes it is but real talk phil and lisa really clicked it turns out that lisa's parents were also divorced so the two were able to relate over that in the book phil says that his successful marriage with lisa is his greatest achievement in life which let's be real here is really saying something since phil wrote this amazing song [Music] and that's hard to talk so life was starting to pile up for phil but folks believe me this was just the beginning at this point of the story we're going through the fun underdog phase just wait till we get to the real drama phil said in his book that computer animation would be the key to his storytelling but he also knew how difficult that path would be he even considered going the live action route and copying the successes of other christian shows like mcgee and me which to be fair had some animated segments too by the way folks i watched an episode of this and it is the most 1990s show ever made it's like what horsing around was making fun of around this time mcgee and me was the talk of the christian town and was the show to beat it was very popular in christian bookstores and was handled by focus on the family and tyndall house productions but phil here thought maybe i can do better maybe just maybe i can produce my own half hour long computer animated home video a chance for him to create art and launch his ministry i mean how hard could it be it's one fine looking ministry why doesn't mine look like that in early 1990 phil kicked things up with his pursuit of computer animation and decided to go to siggraph which stands for special interest group on graphics and interactive technologies it was basically a convention for folks who want to discuss and showcase computer graphics there were lots of big people from the industry there but the biggest takeaway for phil was the introduction of a brand new technique called lattice deformation it allowed animation models to stretch and squash as they moved folks this was a game changer for the animation industry and especially for phil even pixar's old animated shorts did not have this kind of animation but phil's could he decided to get his hands on this new animation software and make his half hour long film he would just have to make sure that he had compelling yet simple characters to work alongside the software something without limbs hmm so during the day phil would do work for his clients and then at night he would focus on making his kids show the only problem it's always a problem isn't it money the software fill needed cost around 25 000 but his stepfather was kind enough to lend him the money for the program phil got lucky but still had quite the road ahead of him he had a wife he had a kid on the way and he had a small business that was hanging on by a thread but he was optimistic he got to test out the lattice deformation for a client and they absolutely loved it phil then made his own character for test run and created nerf ball guy which was a total success that ain't right but then he realized that he needed characters that were even more simple monopod bodies no arms no legs if there was going to be any effort on these characters it was going to be focused on their eyes and that was a brilliant decision considering that most cg characters at the time had rigidized that lacked expression phil wanted to capture the cartoony eyes from the old days of animation like with daffy duck or bugs bunny it is legit amazing that the limitations phil faced would actually provide a solution that would make his characters truly stand out and now we get to the part where the magic begins wait magic no no no that's witchcraft so phil had the technology and a rough idea of what he wanted to do now he just needed to finalize his characters what about uh talking candy yeah hey that could work hold it said lisa fisher you know moms are going to be mad if you make their kids fall in love with candy bars oh my she's right said phil talking vegetables would be much more palatable so phil decided to create a cucumber character who he nicknamed mr kuke ah sweet an early version of larry it was like part of his evolutionary process phil and mike also started to brainstorm stories for the show and thought about doing spoofs on classic literature like the grapes of wrath and it would be mike who came up with the name for the show phil then went to a company called david c cook to see if they wanted to invest in the production of veggie tales now they like the test footage of mr kuke but they were only interested in selling the show not funding it phil then went to tyndall house and they said the same thing no dice phil was really starting to feel the burn his kid finally arrived but he barely had any money despite this he was determined to push on with veggietales and sold as a call from god and here's an interesting fun fact phil actually pitched veggie tales to nickelodeon back in the day when they're on the hunt for their first three nicktoons they considered the idea but ultimately said no we don't do computer animation jimmy neutron laughing in the distance well it wasn't all doom and gloom yet but phil finally came up with bob the tomato and officially had his veggie duo ready to go heck phil would even go on to voice bob and mike would voice larry after that the two put together a short featuring bob and larry as a way to pitch the show to potential investors but nobody was interested it got to the point where phil could barely afford food and for the first time since his journey began he doubted himself he thought maybe god was wrong on this one but according to phil he got this random check in the mail for four hundred dollars from some anonymous source and saw it as a sign to keep pushing forward so he kept at it he even got some advice from his mother about how to portray christianity in the show number one do not portray jesus as a vegetable good call phil's mom jesus christ that's jesus number two try not to imply that the vegetables can have redemptive relationships with god don't show the vegetables praying unless they're playing the role of a historical or biblical figure and number three try to communicate to kids how god made each one of them unique and he loves them very much she said that is your most important message that advice would serve phil well as he pushed forward but then something amazing happened phil got eighty thousand dollars from a friend just a guy who was like hey man i really believe in what you're doing and it needs to happen which is like incredible i mean none of my friends have given me eighty thousand dollars to which at that point are they really even my friends you know who you are well strap in folks things are about to take off for phil he got a chance to pitch his show to some christian ministry that aired kids shows in the middle east this mysterious stranger from the ministry who couldn't even reveal his name due to security reasons okay well the guys took a deal with phil and said we will pay you 110 000 in exchange for 11 episodes of veggietales boom there it is phil finally secured funding and now it was time to make a show allow us to introduce ourselves 1993 and the gauntlet has been thrown down phil and his team had to crunch out a 30-minute computer animated cartoon before christmas a computer animated show well that's new and would be very challenging but phil had the power of god and vegetables on his side okay so what do we have to do yeah we need some animators okay said phil so he hired chris olsen and robert ellis okay boom done next we need some voice actors um mike we'll voice half the cast uh why don't we just voice the characters and maybe um i don't know lisa lisa you can voice junior how about that okay boom done next we need some music uh how how about this guy named kurt heineke who works as the music director at our church and has zero experience working on shows now as often as phil would run into bad luck this was a particular occasion where phil was very lucky cause kurt was amazing and in august of 1993 phil changed the name of graph x studios to big idea productions and he and his friends and his family were trying their best to hype up people for the arrival of veggietales and would send out letters to other families and friends to get them pumped up and honestly real talk that's kind of cute here's a letter in the mail of a cartoon cucumber that my son's making please watch it no but oh no the christmas deadline was quickly approaching and by the skin of their teeth the team was able to make their deadline the first official episode of veggietales was completed complete phil had a policy in mind for veggietales to make a christian show that wasn't just good for christian viewers but for all viewers and i truly believe that he achieved that like i said at the start of the video i knew non-christian families who loved the show and would watch it all the time that's truly a testament to the show first off the direction big idea went for the animation was brilliant focusing on the eyes and face of the models gave these characters such a massive edge when it came to expressions so many expressions then there's the music for a guy who was new to producing music for videos kurt absolutely knocked it out of the park the songs and veggie tales are in my opinion genuinely fantastic and still hold up to this very day while researching this video i listened to the soundtracks on spotify and was like whoa wow these songs are catchy silly songs with larry is legit some top-notch stuff then there's the writing sometimes the episodes had original stories and sometimes they were reenacting stuff from the bible the bible this is the bible you questioned the words of the mighty jimmy regardless the writing was always on point it wasn't afraid to have fun even with biblical content veggietales was able to put its own original spin on these tales from the bible even the dark stuff remember that story from the bible when king david was envious of this soldier's wife and sent the guy to the front lines of a battle so he would die and david could hook up with his wife the bible's wild okay well veggietales used that plot for an episode instead of king david you got larry and instead of a woman he wants a rubber ducky from junior that being said larry still sent the kid off to go to war and the poor kid came back with ptsd [Music] you know for kids [Music] and of course the characters are a lot of fun bob larry jr jimmy jerry paw grape nezzy they all have unique interesting and defined personalities that work well off each other for example bob is the straight man and larry is the silly goof good stuff that's a good dynamic there are even adult jokes in this show now they're not dirty and they went over my head when i was a kid why did the chicken cross the road weed eater like this bit with the irs and how this peach was trying to claim larry's cookies as an adult i find that hilarious and there's also plenty of references to pop culture stuff like star trek or the holy grail as a matter of fact i am very certain that the humor from monty python was a huge influence on phil and mike i fought in your general direction overall veggietales was more than just a show that used computer animation it had strong writing great characters catchy music combine all of this with clever computer animation and you had something that was truly one of a kind and people were starting to notice phil was flown out to nashville tennessee to talk to a guy from a christian music company called word records in may of 1994 they struck a deal and word asked for 11 episodes provided funding and would be a distributor despite this investment of money big idea was almost broke and was barely keeping its head above water since costs were very high in august of 94 the first two episodes of veggietales finally arrived in 750 christian bookstores now as far as world records go veggietales was not the first half hour long cgi show that was claimed by the crash test dummies but veggietales was the first cgi home video series and the first cgi series of any kind produced in the united states now despite being the first in a few categories initial sales were very low and people at christian bookstores were not really going for it phil even considered at this point selling big idea but then phil's lawyer said hey i have a friend who wants to give you fifty thousand dollars but in exchange he and i get to own a percent of the company phil said in his book that the donor and the friend of his lawyer was jokingly called mr silent since he worked remotely this guy would also step in to help with accounting a big idea so the team was growing and with this new cash phil even brought on two more animators tom dannon and ron smith ron would go on to be a key player at big idea and was the guy behind a future series at the studio called 321 penguins we'll talk about that in a bit but now it was early 1995. sales were still pretty low and phil was feeling the burn but this vegetable powder keg was about to explode so what caused veggietales to blow up in popularity a key thing to remember is that veggietales was primarily sold in christian bookstores unlike walmart the people who worked at these bookstores had more freedom to choose what they wanted to put on the tv well it turns out that these young adults and college kids who worked at these bookstores really liked veggie tales they like the animation they liked the jokes phil even got letters from adults who were like hey my husband and i love your show we even threw up veggie tales themed party for our friends by the way we don't have kids phil was like wait what oh looks like these cool college kids were eating their vegetables after all i said i don't want any damn vegetables all right that's it young man no bible stories for you tonight and guess what it was catching on after that phil got a call from a company called good times video which was known for making terrible rip-offs of disney films they were like hey how about you dump these christian distributors and get with us we can sell you talking vegetables at walmart unlike them but if you want to do that you gotta tone down the christian stuff phil thought it over but ultimately turned them down veggietales was his ministry so taking god out of it would completely defeat the purpose phil kept his faith enter bill halgen this larger-than-life 50 year old guy who cursed like a sailor but prayed like a saint he smoked cigars he slammed down booze he walked around in crazy suits with custom patchwork pants with clashing colors the guy was an absolute chad and he was there to help phil he offered to do all of the business stuff that phil was too busy to take care of so phil made bill his vice president of licensing by mid-1996 big idea was blowing up sales were finally exceeding expenses nice and phil decided to step away from animating and instead focus his efforts on more of a leadership role at the studio kind of like what walt did for disney as a matter of fact walt was a massive inspiration to fill he admired walt's creativity his movies his accomplishments phil wanted that he desired to be the christian walt disney his words not mine 1997 would be an explosive year for big idea productions videos were flying off the shelves and breaking records and the merch books clothes costumes puppets [Applause] and numbers were up across the board phil might have stepped down from animating but he found himself incredibly busy rubbing shoulders with big names in the industry and getting hit up by companies who wanted a piece of that vegetable action now a big part in our story and i mean big was the arrival of dick leach the owner of lyric studios and the father of barney the dinosaur phil really liked [Music] dick and appreciated that he was a man of conviction and principle lyric distributed multiple franchises and would be a good pick for veggietales since the previous distributors were becoming more and more unappealing with their questionable business practices with lyric at big ideas back they could become big like really big despite the success of big idea around this time drama was starting to flare up with the team more people were being hired at the company and the personalities were starting to clash also the question came up should the people we hire be christian this is a christian ministry after all or is that too unreasonable so the more people they hired the less christian big idea would become phil was kind of caught between a rock and a hard place with this one he was afraid the christian vibes of big idea might scare off employees and to phil he hated the idea that others could mess up his life by leaving him don't leave me but there was no time to worry about that phil had a dream a vision to take on the big money-loving unethical giants of the entertainment industry disney viacom warner brothers all of them soulless corporations who stood for nothing and did not care about the heart and soul of america but big idea was sharpening its blade and was ready to offer a company that actually had morals and stood for something decent phil allows himself to hope for more than glory such mad hope but there it is against a secular world against all odds we can do it we can take down the corporations we can win phil wanted to make something truly significant something that would outlast him he thought god wants me to make a great company and phil was ready to commit everything to that dream his goal for big idea to marketly enhance the moral and spiritual fabric of our culture through creative media to build the most trusted of the top four family media brands within 20 years well if you're aiming to do that you probably need a ceo so phil brought on a business mentor of his this guy who was previously a ceo of a billion dollar insurance company phil was floored sales were going up videos were being sold at walmart phil was being invited to speak at conferences and conventions and big idea was getting a ton of press coverage heck it was getting so good that other christian companies tried to get a piece of that vegetable pie bibleman gaither's pond and of course the critically acclaimed joshua and the promised land no no there would even be shows that would satirize veggietales such as drawn together snl and the simpsons that's when you know you really made it now phil had confidence in the growth of big idea he was hungry and wanted to see his company get big fast and since he was the majority shareholder he had full control so there was nothing to worry about right right the team was growing presidents vps hr pr marketing veggietales broke records in 1998 and sold over 6 million videos that year alone it had become the best-selling christian video series of all time phil felt invincible big idea could truly take on the world and become a media empire something to rise up and challenge these unethical corporations literally nothing could go wrong so here we are the beginning of the end sure things were looking good for phil but all of that was about to come crumbling down and the canary in the coal mine mr silent he said to phil i'm concerned about the growth of the company we're spending too much money and phil replied by moving the location of big idea to a larger office it was after all god's will the studio was even catching the attention of disney since some of their own animators were quitting to go join phil and his team yep mickey mouse had officially noticed bob and larry i'm gonna chop you up and put you in a salad and feed it to my dog not pluto goofy that dog oh you could stop calling me a dog i'm a sentient creature but things were about to take an ugly turn the staff started to fight more often marketing people were starting to tone down the christian stuff on the big idea website in favor of a moral active demographic christian employees were trying to witness and share the love of god with non-christian employees leaving bible tracks at their desk well i just don't like that mom h.r did not like that but phil did not want to fire people he did not want them to leave his life [Music] also phil mentioned that he wasn't having as much fun anymore it was all business this business that he was stretched way too thin and then treachery was abound so it turns out that the president cfo and other executives of big idea were meeting behind closed doors conducting business and estimating numbers without phil's knowledge lines were officially being drawn in the sand phil and mike were then about to make another critical mistake creating a cinematic veggietales movie it was called jonah and phil and mike thought it could work okay so the passion's there what about the finances uh kind of we'll double back on this up until now 1998 veggietales video sales were going up exponentially but 1999 would be the year when sales would finally slow down by a considerable percent in 98 sales increased by 200 percent in 99 it was only 10 and while the sales dipped the staff only continued to increase in size and expenses went up with it they were paying for a larger staff and the cost to make a single video of veggie tales was now around a million dollars uh oh is that the sound of a clock ticking it's time to stop the list of problems started to grow and fast strap in folks this is about to get ugly the suits of the company were pushing phil more and more out of the picture meanwhile employees were leaving big idea because it was too christian while other employees were leaving because it wasn't christian enough and then the cost of jonah continued to rise what they estimated to be around seven million dollars in production cost and seven million in marketing would eventually cost more much more and then this dream building that phil was trying to secure for big idea in lombard illinois blew up in his face they thought this building would cost around 10 million dollars psych it ended up costing 17 million and the bank they were working with would only loan out 8 million this folks in my opinion was the first real big blow to big idea productions and it was only going to get worse the project was canceled and big idea lost 4 million in their investment for the building ouch phil then took a much needed break after that but came home to absolute chaos it got to the point where phil sat his executive team down and had a let's talk kind of meeting it did not go over well and the president of the company refused to talk to phil until he apologized sales for big idea in 1999 totaled 38 million dollars in 2000 the executives were estimating 77 million that was very optimistic and worst of all the estimated cost in 2000 were going to be around 73 million and most of that was going toward non-animator jobs phil did not like that in january of 2000 the numbers were in and big idea missed their forecasted sales by 80 percent and at that moment phil decided it was time to fire his president the guy had been screwing phil over for long enough also a bunch of other executives were let go or straight up left on their own accord phil was trying to clean out management and in the process he crunched some numbers and then it dawned upon him things were really bad big idea desperately needed money it got to the point they were going to run out of money in only a few months and they still needed money to finish their movie but they were 20 million dollars short of being able to complete it so they reached out to their bank for help the bank was willing to lend them a helping hand but there would be certain stipulations if big idea wanted that fat loan they would have to be kept on track and meet certain numbers if not the bank could foreclose on the company so phil signed the agreement in august of 2000 one month later and they were out of compliance meaning the bank could shut big idea down right about now you guys are probably thinking this is the worst it gets but i'm not done yet in late 2000 the expenses for big idea were skyrocketing and sales were also declining jonah was in production and money was extremely tight so tight that phil had to cut down his staff yet again all the executive people were practically gone by this point except for a new president who stepped in temporarily the new president did some number crunching said that big idea would be out of money in 60 days turned to phil and said what did you do to veggietales uh where are we on our oof counter two so far well there's number three despite the cutbacks it wasn't enough and in may of 2001 phil went forward with a massive layoff and it broke his heart he hated to see people go but it was the only way to cut cost unfortunately it still wasn't enough and phil was left with yet another hard decision he could one fire even more people and only deal with veggietales episode once or twice a year or b throw a hail mary in hope that the jonah movie is a huge success to phil choosing option a would be akin to losing faith in god and he wasn't about to do that phil and mike also had the idea of doing a spin-off of veggietales called the cartoon adventures of larryboy but it would be done in flash to save time and money by the way phil if you're watching this you said in your book that dexter's lab and powerpuff girls were done in flash that was wrong who do you think you are yeah get on my level get back to me when you have a youtube channel i already have one stupid what have you ever done with your life except for making my childhood big idea also launched another series called three two one penguins that was headed by chris olsen who at this point was essentially running the animation studio the hope here was that big idea could leverage veggietales and use it to expand their brand with other shows guess what didn't work a lot of fans didn't care for the visual style of larryboy while 321 penguins wasn't nearly as popular as veggietales but cost almost just as much to make that would be oof number four and then as is the running theme and phil story things got worse so it turns out that big idea never officially signed the contracts to give distribution rights to lyric studios instead it was more of a verbal agreement which meant the contract was not legally binding phil only signed up with lyric because he liked dick and knew he was a good man who kept his word if anything about lyric ever freaked phil out he could walk away from it well it just so happens that dick was selling lyric to a company called hit entertainment the corporation who owns bob the builder thomas and friends and a bunch of other kid franchises and to make matters worse there was no way for phil to talk to dick about it because soon after he died in a freak accident phil did not want to sell veggietales to hit but he also knew if hit did not own said property they would most likely not promote it as much as their own franchises so in early 2001 phil made the decision to leave lyric and signed up with wea instead which was the music distribution company at warner brothers ironic phil wanted to stand against warner but now needed their help they offered to advance enough money to big idea so they could finish jonah though they would eventually have to pay them back and 10 days after announcing this deal with warner hits entertainment slapped big idea with a lawsuit why are you bullying me they were mad but the lawsuit could wait we got a safe big idea first uh we have multiple ways to do this after all there's the veggietales concert ah wait never mind that failed well there's the merchandise ah shoot that money belonged to the distributors well what about the movie yes the movie or hail mary of the veggietales arsenal this will save the company right folks are you even surprised anymore at this point i think you know the answer according to phil jonah needed to make at least 18 million dollars in order for big idea to walk away with a profit with fingers crossed jonah was released in october of 2002 and made around 25 million dollars at the box office now half of that money went to the movie theaters and the rest of it well it went to the company that marketed the film so overall jonah was a financial failure and it was not going to save the company coupled as failure with the impending lawsuit and massive layoffs and it should be no surprise phil wasn't in the best place mentally he felt like he was losing his focus with his objective for big idea and everything was coming undone but he still had faith phil thought god was going to save big idea uh yeah sure it was now winter of 2002 and animators at the company were starting to leave and instead we're going to blue sky studios to work on robots not the machines the movie yeah remember that film uh it's got robin williams but whatever big idea had a bigger problem to deal with the lawsuit ladies and gentlemen i welcome you all to the end game of our story now big idea had already burned over 2 million dollars on legal fees so far and begged the ceo of hit to settle out of court he said no this guy was out for blood and it was time for a court battle in this corner weighing over ten thousand pounds barney the dinosaur and in this corner wayne hold on uh never mind it's above the tomatoes now fight the case would go from 2002 to 2003 and took place in dallas texas during this time the president of big idea left the company and by april of 2003 only 65 people worked a big idea on the back end the video sales for jonah were going well too bad phil did not see a penny of it since that money would go to distributors but you know what hey shut up it's time for law stuff phil hated the court proceedings and found them dreadfully boring his lawyer even told him hey phil try to look more interested well the argument for hit entertainment and their ownership of lyric boiled down to this there's actually three main points one even though there is not an officially signed agreement there was a binding agreement based on the original offer letter between big idea and lyric that since the offer letter was signed by dick and the return correspondents from big idea carried a signature on a fax cover sheet that those documents taken together constituted the binding relationship even though dick's letter clearly said quote there would be no binding relationship until a formal agreement was signed two lyrics lawyers made the argument that the wording on the potential contract said quote approval of which big idea will not unreasonably withhold and said that big idea was walking away from lyric and hit because phil was being greedy that he was leaving only because he wanted more money and that was it and that was not a reasonable cause to walk away they admitted that big idea had the right to approve of his purchase of lyric but that they quote unreasonably withheld approval and finally hits lawyers made the argument that big idea had given hit dvd rights to all of big ideas videos even though the contract only said video cassettes only their evidence big idea sent two videos on dvd for lyric to use for test audiences only the lawyers for hit pointed to the dvds and noted the logo of lyric on said covers see they said they gave us dvd rights marriage is blinding and that makes me king see phil thought that all of these arguments were completely stupid to which they were it was a total stretch of logic but that's corporate law for you but this brings us to the final death blow for big idea they lost the judge and jury agreed with the lawyers from lyric and hit and gave them everything 11 million dollars in damages payment for legal fees and of course big idea itself 14 years of phil's life work was ripped from his arms in an instance despite losing in court phil was determined to keep big idea together as one entity he pulled a 363 bankruptcy sale which was a way to keep the company together and operate as one instead of being stripped for parts and sold separately that was a smart move so in 2003 there was an auction for big idea between companies and a bidding war ensued the winner a company called classic media with a purchase of 19.6 million dollars now bob larry the entire veggietales cast no longer belonged to phil sadly the pain for phil did not end there he got angry letters from fans and from ex-employees and ultimately he asked himself why why would god bring a dream to life only to see it die for the record i am going to approach the following from phil's perspective and beliefs so keep that in mind over time phil realized that he made a false idol out of big idea that he was too obsessed with becoming big and doing it quickly that in the shuffle of it all he lost focus on his ministry and god phil's original plan was to do what he was doing for god but according to him he lost sight of that and only cared about his own dreams in his book phil says quote beware your dreams and his personal dream was to become the next christian walt disney to provide a strong option for people who want to watch movies and shows from a company with strong ethics he had tunnel vision and in the process of reaching for the stars he fell he fell hard and you want to hear the most soul-crushing part of it all you're not ready for this uh the irony in august of 2005 the verdict for the lyric lawsuit was overturned in federal appeals court but by that time it was too late the damage had been done big idea had already been sold off and there was no way for phil to get it back hey what did i say you know what i told you all this was going to be a sad story well guess what the story is not in there but before we move on let's do a quick recap of the main things that went wrong for phil and brought the original run of veggietales to its knees number one high cost big idea spent a lot of money and hired way too many people folks money is the name of the game and big idea for the majority of its run always seems short on it number two poor management phil admits that he does not care for being the ceo or president of a company and would rather pass that off to other experienced people well that backfired because these people did not have the same goals as fills in mind instead they had unreasonable goals that would eventually sink the company number 3 the movie this was a bad idea from the get-go it was way too much way too soon especially with the other problems in the mix it took away manpower it cost a ton of money and here's the thing the movie itself wasn't bad if only big idea could have waited a few more years then maybe the movie might have been a success number four distributors i feel that out of all of the problems i've listed so far this one was the most out of phil's hands he played by the rules and had an understanding with a guy who was cool with him but then that guy died and the new owners went for phil's throat in hindsight maybe he should have signed a contract that he found suitable with lyric instead of letting things be if he did it definitely would have helped him in court but ultimately phil blames himself he said that his strengths built big idea but his weaknesses brought it down that he was too eager to go big and that was his undoing well you can't say he doesn't own up to it despite the lawsuit bankruptcy and auction this was not the end for veggietales you see classic media was now the new owner and oh wait hold on i'm wrong they were bought by dreamworks wait no hold on they got bought by nbc universal oh wait wait they were bought by comcast what what what just happened so technically uh comcast owns veggie tales huh well veggie tales would eventually find itself on tv in a show called veggietales on tv it was repackaged episodes of the original veggie tales and it ran from 2006 to 2009 on a channel called kubo kubo it was even the top saturday morning cartoon during its run but this was also the time when the new owners started to downplay god in the show i actually got to ask phil about this and he said quote i was upset when an mbc deal resulted in the classic episode being degotted because i had been told that wouldn't happen and i was involved in that project i stepped aside when it became clear the shows needed to be secularized heck i mean there were religious groups that were fuming that they were taking god out of veggietales one member said quote the series is successful because of its biblical worldview not in spite of it that's the signature to veggietales end quote honestly you know what that's a fair point the show did start off as christian after all but then things got weird with the netflix series uh both of them veggie tales in the house in 2014 and then veggie tales in the city in 2017. phil and mike still worked on the shows as voice actors but that was it instead of them the series was led under the command of doug tanapple buddy i don't even know how to say your name but i don't really care he was the guy who was a creator of earthworm gem [Music] not my first choice nor my 87th both of these series featured redesigns of the characters as the characters had more yeah anime eyes i guess in my hability also the stories in writing weren't nearly as sharp overall i did not care for in the house or in the city and it just proves that phil and mike really knew what they were doing originally and let me tell you the veggietales fandom did not care for these reboots either i found this crazy forum post from like 2014 that said the following quote no one in this series is cute even larry the cucumber i've been crushing on since i was eight looks like what comes out of your bud if you eat too much green stuff really it's it's larry that larry's hot larry's your crush well that's a new one oh by the way someone replied to this and said quote you're gonna burn in hell for the rant you made [Laughter] oh man these fans go hard despite the crushing defeats that phil suffered throughout the years there was a silver lining he got a second chance in march of 2019 it was announced that the broadcasting rights to veggietales was picked up by trinity broadcasting network a christian-based television network they wanted veggietales to return to its original format and also wanted phil to be a writer and director on the show heck they got the old band back together phil mike lisa kurt it was like seeing old friends again the show is called the veggietale show and the first episode was released in late 2019. i watched it and it feels a lot like the muppets with how they put on a show and kermit's running around backstage with his clipboard trying to keep things in line it's like that but with veggie tales the writing is familiar the jokes are funny the characters look much better and overall i dig it again phil and his team brought something unique to the table when they were originally making veggie tales so it's really good to see them back on the show oh and by the way the first episode is about making peace and at the end of the show bob straight up apologizes to the rest of the veggietales for letting them down and ask them to forgive him if that is not a metaphor then i don't know what is so in conclusion after sharing this long story of success and failure i have to say this i both pity and respect phil this truly was a story about a man who was original and brilliant how he built something amazing but unfortunately flew too close to the sun and came crashing down and here's the thing he admits it which is refreshing since most people don't like to admit their mistakes and considering all things veggietales was a pretty groundbreaking show and was very good during its original run i rewatched it while working on this video and the show absolutely holds up despite its old animation it's truly a testament that veggietales was built on creative animation great characters in writing and very catchy music it was more than just christian vegetables or early cg animation it was one of a kind and that is why it became a global phenomenon honestly it makes me wonder what could have been if phil could have stayed in charge but in hindsight it sounds like things played out in a way that ultimately worked out in phil's favor he sounded miserable during the late 90s and early 2000s and seems much more happy now i suppose all's well that ends well again i have a lot of respect for phil i know not everyone is on the same page when it comes to religious content but i see phil as a genuine guy who meant well he never struck me as arrogant or mean-spirited just a guy who was clever with his creations but was taken for a ride while reaching for the stars perhaps to fill for admitting his faults learning from them and moving on that takes cuts overall i hope more people will see the original veggie tales in a better light and realize how much of a footprint it left on the history of animation and all thanks to a nerdy kid and his religious vegetables well we're out of time for today but remember god made you special and he loved you very much bye bamboo speaking of which where are my god-fearing vegetables where's larry [Applause] i have to use that actually [Music] [Music] you

Channel: Saberspark

Views: 1,554,045

Rating: 4.9550405 out of 5

Keywords: saberspark, saber, veggieTales, what ruined veggietales, what's ruining, what ruined, video essay, the fall of veggietales, whatever happened to veggietales, phil vischer, christian, animation, cartoons, big idea, veggie tales

Id: HwU5OBbt41Y

Length: 67min 11sec (4031 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 04 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/sessl]

GET THE LUBE AND TIS...jk I'm just excited it finally releaassedd

edit: aight my keybbors brokwn

[u/RinebooDersh]

This is fascinating, it’s sad that the guy who created a cartoon I loved and even my mom and nanny were fond of got screwed over the way he did.

[u/emirmendoza]

A lawsuit killed VeggieTales. A lawsuit that does not make sense. But that's the law for you.

[u/emilysong2000]

Saber: This video is my magnum opus.

Me: You got that right, Saber!

[u/MrDanKHimself]

Very interesting story. You did a great job telling it Saber!

[u/emirmendoza]

The appellate (appeals court) decision which reversed the trial court judgment against Big Idea: https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-5th-circuit/1078873.html