- Somewhere in there about that. - How many outlets do you need? - Uh, just two. - All right. Charlie ... Charlie Jones. Charlie, you were the
Warden at, uh, Holman Prison in Atmore, Alabama? - Right. - How many years were
you the Warden at Holman? - 30 ... oh, well, I was Warden for 18. I worked in the prison system for 35. - 35 years. And you grew
up where? In Alabama? - Right here. - Tell me about your childhood. You had both of your parents? - Yeah. - How would you describe your childhood? - Ah, just normal. I went
to school, finished school, went to college, finished
that, uh, come back here, built a house, and uh, I'm nine miles from the prison. I lived here most of the time. I've been moved around
all over the state at different prisons. - How many prisoners
did you have at Holman? - Approximately 1,000. - And you had death row inmates at Holman? - Right. - Holman's the only prison
in Alabama that has the ... - Right. - ... death penalty ... has executions ... - Right. - Right? - As the Warden for 18
years, what's your view on the death penalty? Do you
see it as an effective way to control crime or keep ... keep ... keep society in line? - Well, I think you have
to on .. on, uh, bad cases, uh, you can't ... you know, certain things, you can do other things, but
the way death row was set up, uh, it's pretty bad. You have
to have a pretty bad crime to be put on death row. You had to have a combination of murder robbery, murder rape, or something
like that before you qualify for it. But, sooner or later, these other non-serious crimes, in my view, have to be done
other ways because the ... the tax-payers are not
going to pay to have all of them locked up. There too many of them. - It gets expensive. Right? - Yeah. - So as Warden at Holman, part
of your job was to perform the executions. Right? - Right. - You were using the electric
chair or lethal injections? - Is was the chair. - So by the time a man
gets to the electric chair, where do you see your role
as the end of his life? Do you see it as you're
responsible for that? You're the one that's pulling the trigger? - Well, technically I guess I was, but a lot of things happen
between the time that he's arrested and the time he
has to sit in that chair. It's a long, drawn-out process
that can last as long as 20 years; sometimes longer than that. - There's a lot of steps
a suspect would have to go through before he sits
in the electric chair. Right? - Yeah. It ... a crime committed, and there's an investigation, and then they follow the
investigation until they arrest somebody. And then he's arraigned,
and then he's tried, and 12 people sit in judgment on him, and if he's convicted,
he goes to prison ... goes to death row. Then his appeal process starts, and it is long and drawn out. The Alabama Supreme Court,
Court of Criminal Appeals, State Court. It can last on and on. - So by the time he gets
to the electric chair, it's pretty certain that this
is ... that he is guilty? - By the time ... yep. Well, not always. There's some time they can
go right up pretty close to the time, and the attorney
come up with something that he appealed one last time to the Alabama Supreme Court, and they'll give him a stay. It don't always last. It might last a day. It might last a week. It might last three or four years. But most of the time, once I'm served ... or was served with a warrant ... a death warrant, then it's getting really serious. I'd get that warrant 30
days prior to the date, and during that time, the
attorneys for both sides ... they get busy, and they try to come up with something to stop it. Sometimes they do. And by that time, most times, they didn't. - What does that death row
inmate's last moments like before ... before he is executed? Can you describe that? - Well, you're talking about the day-of? - The day of. Yeah. - Well, the day of, he's ... the inmate would spend most of the day with his
family on the visiting yard. We'd leave him out there
approximately two hours before the time to get him ready. And we'd take him off the
visiting yard, escort him back to his cell. The execution team would get him dressed, shave his head, shave
his ankle ... left ankle, and get him ready. By
that time, it's right around 12 ... 12 a.m.; 12:01 a.m. And they ... they would call me. I
would be in my office. I stayed in my office ... - 12 a.m. Midnight? - Do what? - Midnight? - Yeah. - Yeah. I'd stay in my office
while they did that in case we got a call from the
governor, or from the Attorney General, or from
the Court, putting it off. If we didn't, then somebody
would man the phone while I would go to the death chamber. By the time I got down
there, they've got him in the chair, strapped in, ready to go. By Law, I had to read
that death warrant to him. And I would ask him if he
had any last request or ... ... or statement. Most of them didn't. If not, then I would tell the two officers in the death chamber to make him ready. Final ... final readiness was putting the helmet on him and putting the ankle bracelet on him. And then, I would leave the death chamber, and go in next door to the equipment room. The two officers would come out. We didn't want to leave
anybody in there with him for fear that somebody might
pass out and fall into him. And once they come out, they'd give me a signal: Tap on the door. And it was all over with. - It's just a flip of a switch? - Press of a button. - Press of a button? How did this effect you
personally, doing this? - Well ... - How many did you perform? - I did 17 men and one woman. - How did if effect you personally? - Well, that's a good question. I've never let their problem become my problem. And I didn't put them
there. I didn't go out and arrest them, and
sit in judgment on them. Once they got there,
that was their problem. And they knew that. And I tried to treat them in such a way, and my staff
treat them in such a way that when the time came,
you know, we didn't have to look away from them. We
could look them in the eye, and let them know what's
fixing to take place, and what to watch for, and
you know, "Here it comes." And afterwards, you know, it lays on your mind. It did me. But not a guilt thing. Just hoping that I had done everything to be sure that his case was as
perfect as it could be, that there was no way me or
my staff the cause of him having to sit in that chair
when maybe he shouldn't have. If he shouldn't have, then
it was somebody else's mishandling; not us. So, you know, I ... I don't lose sleep over it. To tell you the truth, I very seldom think about it. - What kind of reactions
would you see from the men as they approach their last day? - Not ... not a lot. Most of them was ready. They would ... you know, we
would take them out of their regular cell 24 hours ahead
of time and put them in what we call the Ready
Cell, the Death Cell. Once we got them down there, and they were away from all of their friends on the cell block, they settled down really well. I can only recall one that seemed like he ... he carried a grudge to the chair, but the rest of them didn't. They let it go, and most of them, at one time or another, during that short period,
admitted what they had done. - Eventually they admitted their crimes? - Yeah. Yeah. Not all of them, but most of them. - Is there one in
particular that stood out in your memory? - Yeah. But I can't recall his name. He ... you've seen people that carried a ... I don't
know what you'd call it, but they were mad all of the time. You had to be careful
how you spoke to them. You'd say, "Good morning," to
them, they'd get mad at you. That's kind of the way this guy was. - What do you think the core cause is of a hardened criminal's behavior? I mean, do you think it was his environment? Or his family? Or his brain chemistry? What do you think is the cause
of what makes a criminal? - I don't know. If I knew
that, I could probably rest easy the rest of my life. I don't know. I think it's a combination of things. I think a lot of them
grew up without a father, not knowing who their father was, and getting with the wrong
crowd as they grew up, taking ... making bad choices, and going around, trying
to take away stuff that didn't belong to them. - It all goes hand-in-hand. Doesn't it? - Do what? - It goes hand-in-hand. - It's ... you know, to
answer your question, I think it's ... it's just
... it's a combination of all that stuff. - You're retired now,
but in your decades of working in the prison system, how have you seen criminals change? I mean, did you see they're more violent? How are they different now
than they were in the past? - Uh ... - Drugs are a bigger part
of the picture now. Right? - The what? - Drugs are a bigger part
of the picture now. Correct? - Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. Most of ... not on death row,
but regular population ... most of the inmates in the
regular population that it maybe didn't come to
prison because of drugs; but drugs was always involved. - How do you look at this
part of your life that you ... that you had? I mean,
this chapter of your life? It's certainly very unusual. How do you view it? - Well, I guess I look at it like anybody else looks at
something that they do. A farmer, or whatever. It's something that I did,
and I knew what it was when I took the the job. It wasn't no surprise. You know, I knew that eventually that I'd have to do that. And now, you know, I look back on it, and I know I did everything I could to see that they were treated
... not just at death row, but all of them, they were treated right, wasn't abused, and at the same time, now, we didn't ... we didn't let them us
do us that way either. But we didn't have that much trouble. And I look back on that as that I did all I could to be sure they ... they were treated right. I've met them on the street, and they would run to me with a hand out; and you know, some of them I'd recognize, some of them I didn't. And
they had to tell me who they were. I've had some of them tell
me, you know, that I'd kept them from getting
into bad trouble in prison, and I knew by something I
could gauge what I did, maybe ... maybe I did all I could to do what was right. I don't ... I don't have
any regrets of anything. And the main thing, I
mentioned it a while ago, I did not let people
put me on a guilt trip about what I had to do, and I did not allow the inmate's problem to become my problem. They had to do what they had to do, I did what I had to do, and they just have to
let the rough end drag. - All right, Charlie. Thank you so much for talking with me. Very interesting. Thank you.
Why’s he look like an irl character from Meat Canyon
The Soft White Underbelly channel on YouTube is phenomenal. It has really provided me some perspective of the difficulties people face and the reasons why people can end up in such dire straits. I think Mark Laita does a great job in these interviews by giving people space to tell their stories while providing sympathy and kindness.
Having said that, some of these stories are really hard to listen to, almost all of them have to do with some aspect of substance abuse and many of them (especially the stories from women) involve sexual assault and rape. If you are sensitive to that sort of material I would not recommend these videos.
Thanks for sharing this.
The executioner says you have to have committed a serious murder to be executed in America, but is that really what the evidence shows?
Just last year we find another example of an innocent man executed: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/07/us/ledell-lee-dna-testing-arkansas.html
There are more: https://klau.nd.edu/news-events/news/troy-davis-story-highlights-risks-of-wrongful-conviction-and-execution/
I spent 30 seconds googling
Any serious amount of time spent researching this will show evidence that this claim that only serious murderers are executed just isn't true.
Edit: The executoner also says that executing a person is cheaper than life in prison, again, the evidence of this has never been produced.
https://ballotpedia.org/Fact_check/Is_the_death_penalty_more_expensive_than_life_in_prison
Looks like Bob Pogo from F Is for Family
Soft white underbelly is an incredibly culturally important journalistic endeavor. I urge anyone who has not already to watch the interviews Mike Laita held with the Whittaker family of West Virginia. The family is made up of several children and kin of double first cousin parents.
https://youtu.be/nkGiFpJC9LM Pt.1
https://youtu.be/l4aAIF-iW9U Pt.2, a follow up some time later.
Interesting watch but not exactly surprised by anything he said. I'm not calling him a liar but he was hardly gonna come out and say "I spent 30 years working my way to the top of a system which I don't believe in, but the fat paycheck and being able to abuse the prisoners made it all worthwhile"
Why does he look like that
OP, the channel that this came from is phenomenal! I’m glad you posted it so others can check out the channel on YT.
Thats the last face you see? Talk about cruel and unusual punishment