- [Mark] Okay, so Frank Cullotta. Frank, you grew up in Chicago. - [Frank] That's correct. - [Mark] And you had involvement
with the Chicago mob, which was called the
Outfit, the Chicago Outfit? - Yeah, we referred to it as the Outfit. - [Mark] Yeah, and your father had a similar kind of path as you, right? - My father, you know, he
never wanted to be a gangster. He was a thief. He was a killer, you know. He was all of them things, but he never went in to be
controlled by any organization, like the, back then it would
have been the syndicate or the outfit. - [Mark] Right. And tell me about your childhood. You grew up with your mom and dad. - Yeah, I grew up I had a sister. She was five years older than me. My mother was nine months
pregnant with my brother when my father died. So my brother never
got to meet his father. - [Mark] Oh, wow. - And she was a very
good mother, at least, I know everybody thinks
their mother is the best. Well, I feel as though
my mother was the best. Woman visited me every
day, every Sunday in jail for as many years as I
did, since I was a kid. - [Mark] That's great. What, tell me about your father. - My father was a, he
was a, not a bank robber, but he would do it I guess. He did a lot of robberies and burglaries. He was more or less a good
wheel man, getaway driver. That's what his reputation was. How I knew all of this stuff
was because of relatives used to telling me as I was
growing up, and his friends, my father's friends. Otherwise I wouldn't
have known that stuff. I just knew my father when I
was a kid had a violent temper, and he was very providing for the house. Very good. He hollered at my mother a lot. He was very jealous,
but very much in love. And I love my father. To this day, I still love him. - [Mark] He's Italian. That explains a lot of it, right? - He died in an automobile accident. He was killed. He was being pursued by
the police 'cause he had, back then they used to
call 'em gas stamps, rationing stamps. And he had a carload of 'em. He was on, he just had been
sentenced to eight years in Des Moines, Iowa because
he got caught out there. I think he was set up. So he was out on some
type of an appeal bond, and he had more of
these stamps in his car, and he took off, and he was,
he got killed in the car, car accident. - [Mark] Hmm, and there's a
connection between your father and, so you met Tony Spilotro, who is a infamous Chicago mobster, when you guys were kids, right? - I guess Tony Spilotro and
myself met at a very young age. I am assuming it was about
12 years old or maybe 11, somewhere around there. It's been a long time,
but it was around there. And my mother finally sent me on. She says, you've gotta start,
you know, go make money. Here's a shoe box, make a shoe box. So I made a shoe box, shoe shine box. Cause I was stealing out
of paper bags before then, I was climbing up the pole
and reaching into the bag, grabbing nickels out and running. Finally, the guy started chasing me. - [Mark] That's how they
sold newspapers back then. - Newspapers, yeah, there were newspapers. It was on your honor. You drop a nickel in and take a paper out. Well, I dropped my hand in
and took all the money out. So I'd, you know, finally
he'd start chasing me. So that's when I start shining shoes, and the main street in
Chicago that I hung on and been up and down all my life is a street called Grand Avenue. So I'm on one side of the street, and I hear a voice yelling at me. "You're in my territory, get out of here," and I look across the street, and I see a guy that was
a little shorter than me. So he starts walking towards me. I walk towards him. He says to me, "This is my territory. "You need to get out of here
or I'll bust your head." And I look up at the
street sign, and I said, "I don't see your name. "What's your name?" And he says, "Spilotro." I said, I don't see your
name on that street sign. And I'll be back here tomorrow. And he said, "Well, when
I come back tomorrow, "I'm busting your head." I said, "I'll be back." So the next day I come back, the next day I come back for, I was there every day for a week or two. And I didn't see this little
guy with this bad attitude. Then one day I heard, hey,
cause he had asked me my name when we were arguing on the street. He said, "What's your name?" And I tell him Cullotta, Frank Cullotta. So when I seen him after a week or two, he yelled to me again,
and we met in the street in the middle, it was street cars then. So we stood by the tracks, and he said, "I gotta ask you a question. "What was your father's first name?" And I said, 'Why?" He says, "I just need to ask
you, and I'll tell you why." I said, "It was Joe or Joseph." He said, "Well, you and
I are gonna be friends "for the rest of our lives." And I said, "Why? "What's the reason for that?" And he said, "My father overheard me "talking with my brothers "about a guy I was having a
problem with shining shoes "in my territory. "When he heard the name Cullotta, he says, "he called me into the room and he said, "find out if that boy's name is, "if that boy's father's name is Joe." He says, "'cause if it is, "you and him gotta be the
best friends from now on "because his father saved my life." And that's what Tony told
me in the conversation. And I said, then I come to find out what took place and how my father saved
Tony's father's life. Tony's father's name was Patsy. Tony's father had a
restaurant on Grand and Ogden. We referred to that as
the old neighborhood. It's up northwest. It was called Patsy's Restaurant, and he was famous for his sandwiches, his meatball sandwiches. What I come to find out
is my father went in there like everybody else around
that area to get food and spend money. Patsy told him one day,
he said, "Hey, Joe, "I'm having a lot of problems
with these grease balls." Grease balls back then
meant the Black Hand. That was the only thing around. There was no Al Capone, no Tony Accardo. So my father said, "Well, what
are they doing to ya, Patsy?" And he said, "Well, they
come in, they collect. "They wanna collect from me every week. "Taxes to stay in business." He said, "I can't afford it." He said, "I'm just a
little business man here." My father said, "What day they come in?" And I guess he told him the day. My father says, "I'll be here
that day before they get here, "in your back, the kitchen. "Do you usually bring him in the kitchen "when you give him money?" He said, "Yeah." So my father says, all right. So the following, whatever the day was, he came in with two of his guys, and they waited in the kitchen. So when this guy come to
collect money from Patsy, Patsy brought him into the kitchen. Well, they got him in the kitchen, my father and his other two friends, and they killed him. Patsy wasn't in the kitchen
when they killed him. Patsy walked out of the kitchen, and then I don't know how
they disposed of his body. But that's what happened to this guy. Well, the word got back to their boss. No grease balls used to
walk up and down the streets putting black hands on doors. And he wanted to know who these guys were. And they was afraid to go by Patsy's because he didn't know if
Patsy had any more guys waiting for him. So he start continuing his
operation around Grand and Ogden by putting black hand,
they'd have a black ink hand put on people's doors, paper, and people would know what that meant. So happened to be one
day, my mother come home, and there was one on our
door, and she looked at it. She didn't know what the hell it meant. So when my father comes home, she says, "Joe, somebody left
this thing on the door." Well, he went crazy, and he, you know, and then he found out where
this guy went for, the boss, but it happened to be his under boss, the boss's underboss, goes for a haircut. And he caught him in the barbershop, and he killed him in the barbershop. Then he thought to himself,
or this is what I was told, he's got to get the head of this guy, the head of the organization. So by this time, the head of
that organization of black hand went in hiding, and he
took his wife with him, and they found out that he
was in a motel with his wife. They kicked down a door,
and they killed him in bed in front of his wife,
didn't hurt his wife. That was the end of the black hand. So then soon after that,
the outfit became, you know, Al Capone and these guys. And they wanted my father to be involved, and he didn't wanna be involved. He didn't want nothing to do
with any type of organization. So that was basically
the story of my father. - [Mark] That's a great story. So that paved the way for
the mob in Chicago really. - Oh, yeah, I guess,
yeah, through all Chicago. See, there's a street in Chicago, and most of these guys that
were connected to Al Capone lived on that street in Chicago. It was called Taylor Street. And that's where, it's called
the 42 Gang come out of. That means there was 42 bosses,
42 guys that were made men. They'd come out of that area. Sam Giancana, Teets Battaglia, every, I could go on and on, but I'm not. It's too long. And they all come out
of that neighborhood. All old guys, right? Now they'd have been over
a hundred some years old. And Tony Accardo, Tony
Accardo as a matter of fact, lived in the house in front of our house when I was a little child,
maybe four or five years old. I didn't know that, he was
probably nobody back then. I liked Sam Giancana I would always refer
to him as a man's man. - [Mark] So you've had interactions with so many big and
powerful mobsters from-- - [Frank] I could go on and on to the interaction I've had with mobsters. I could be here a week, and
I'm not gonna be here a week. - [Mark] Just pick two or three that you think are
particularly interesting. - [Frank] Milwaukee Phil. I've, Jack Cerone, William Assina - [Mark] But go, but tell
me about some of the, like one or two of these
individuals' personalities. - [Frank] Personalities? - [Mark] What made them, what made them unique and interesting? - [Frank] Well, they were all, each one of them were
unique in their own way. You know, they all had tempers. Some of 'em were narcissistic? - [Mark] Narcissistic - [Frank] And some were
more just the nicest guys in the world. So you had to be careful how
you treated each individual. You'd know what they were
before you even got to meet 'em. So if you were half smart,
you'd know how to handle 'em, you know, on a speaking arrangement. - [Mark] Yeah. - [Frank] Now Milwaukee
Phil, I always felt as though he growled when he talked. Sam DeStefano was a psychopath. I worked for him too. I've seen him in action. Definitely out of his mind. Teet's was all right. Teet's was wild too, Battaglia. James Torello, Turk. I liked Turk. I used to steal with Turk. Turk became a boss too. Joe Ferriola. We call him Joe Nagall, great guy. But you cross these guys, you were gonna get fucking whacked. - [Mark] Yeah. - [Frank] There was no doubt about it. You were gonna get whacked Like I said, I could go on all day. I met Tony Accardo two times. I didn't talk to him on a level where he would be like my
going by, "Hey, buddy." None of that. I respected this guy so
much, anything he'd done because he was a gentleman. He never talked down to people. He knew who I was when I was 18 years old. When I was 18 years old,
this guy knew who I was. Shocked me, but that's
how the word travels in that circle. When they know a guy's a
tough guy or he's capable, they watch you. And one time Tony Accardo told me, "Hey kid, I know you are." And I looked at him. It was in a pancake house. And I said, "Who are you, sir?" He said, "My name is Anthony Accardo," and I said, "Oh, my God,
it's a pleasure to meet you." I was like shocked. You know, 'cause I heard about him. And at that particular time, Paul Ricca was the boss of the Outfit. All right, Paul Ricca was
the boss for about 10 years. So he says to me, "I know
all about you, Frankie." He says, "You got a bad temper." He says, "You could go
a long way," he says, "if you control your temper. "Just some friendly advice. "And by the way, who are your friends?" He wanted to know who my
friends were next to me. So I told him, and the
guy's like, Oh, Mr. Accardo. And then the next time I had a stop, Willie Messino used to work
for, I mean, I'm sorry, with Accardo by, he used to
do things for Accardo's house. Accardo had a monkey. Tony Accardo had a monkey. So poor Willie Messino was
put in charge to the monkey 'cause the monkey would
tear up the basement. So one time I had a stop there and pick up something from Willie, and Willie was saying,
"This fucking monkey." He says, "I'd kill him," he says, "if I could get away with it." And then Tony come home,
Tony Accardo come home, and he looked at me, and he waved, and I said, "Hello, Mr. Accardo." Always Mr. Accardo. He says, "How's my monkey doing, Willie?" Willie, looked, shakes his head like that. I left, I said, "I gotta get out of here." But yeah, I know, that's
the only two times I talked to the man. - [Mark] Tell me about Larry Neumann, who was somebody you also worked with. - Larry Neumann, strange
that you say that. They talked about a lot of
vicious guys in the Outfit. And there were like LaPietra,
LaPietra, his brother, Jimmy. Vicious, crazy bastard, scary guy. I think Larry Neumann was worse than anyone of the worst
they had in the Outfit. He was a Jewish guy. I met him in a penitentiary,
Stateville penitentiary. He was doing a buck and
a quarter, it's 125 years for a triple murder. He did 11 and a half years on it. His father paid off the parole board. His father was very wealthy. So that's where I met Lefty. We worked in an assignment together. They called it the detention hospital. They refer to those guys as the goon squad because we would do what the guards didn't
have the balls to do, get crazy people out of the cells and bring 'em to this detention hospital where all the psychos were. And that's who we would watch. There was eight of us. So we control that
floor, that hospital unit with the psychos. And that's where I met him. And then Larry joined me
in later years in Vegas. - [Mark] But he was, he was
a killer that took it to-- - He was what? - [Mark] He was a killer, but he took it to another level, right? - I referred to Larry
Neumann as a serial killer. He enjoyed killing, and it
didn't make any difference how he killed you. If he had to cut you up in
pieces to get rid of ya, he could do that. You know, I mean, the guy
had, he was just an evil man. He was an evil man. He died in the penitentiary. He went back to the, I put
him back in the penitentiary because he, I testified him
on a murder he committed, which he shouldn't have committed. - [Mark] So, so eventually
you ended up doing some, like you started off with some robberies, like a bank and Brinks
trucks and stuff like that? - Who was that? - [Mark] You did, you. - Me? - [Mark] Yeah. - Yeah, you gotta start somewhere, and I started out. - [Mark] But you started
out big. (Mark laughing) These were big. - Well, no, well, I got big quick. I was, I had a car I bought
with stocks and bonds that my father left. So it was an Oldsmobile, nice. 98 it was 55 or so, I
don't know what it was, but it was an older car,
it wasn't brand new. Real old. So I was in the alley doing
something by my house, in Chicago doing something, and this guy come walking down the alley. He had a fedora on like this. He was tall and skinny. We refer to him in later
years as Mopey Jesus. That's what we named him, Mopey Jesus. His name was Bob Spirota. And he stopped, and he's talking to me. And he's got a wad of
money, showing me his money. I said, "Where did you
get all that money?" And he said, "You wanna
make money like me? "I'll show ya." He says, "I need a guy
with a car, " he says. I says, "What do you do?" He says, "I stick up taverns." Stick up taverns. What did I know? Stick up taverns, yeah. He says, "I'm gonna start doing banks." I says, "I don't wanna do banks." He says, "You wanna come with me?" I say, "Yeah, I'll give it a try." But I wear these glasses. I had thick glasses then. He says, "Take 'em off." I said, "I don't know, them
places are dark at night." I give it a shot. So I met him, and we went
on our first tavern heist. It was a fucking nightmare. It was so dark in there I couldn't see. He went in there, and he
shot, he blew off the bottles off the black bar, you know,
off the back end of the bar. Everybody hit the ground
like they were supposed to. I'm yelling. It's dark. I can't see in there. I'm yelling to this image. It was a top coat and a hat, get down, and I'm yelling, get down. And Bob said, "Who you yelling at?" "At that jag off that don't
wanna lay down over there," and Bob's laughing. He goes over, and he hits it. It was a coat rack, and
the hat was set onto where the top coat. And it's dark in there. I'm telling you, I couldn't see it 'cause I had bad vision. So we laughed all the way
to the car, and he said, I told him, "If you ever
tell anybody about this, "I'll kill ya." I told him. And then from there, I
didn't go with him too often 'cause he was a little wild. And then I hooked up with two other guys, Richard Gorman and Paulie Schiro. And we start the, and Gino,
a guy Gino Chiappetta. And we start, we did a couple taverns. One was in Cicero. Should've never went
there, had a shoot out. And it was a bad shoot out. We got away. But one of the bullets went
through the windshield, and parted my partner's
hair Gino Chiappetta. Left a part down the center
of his hair, legitimate. So he says, that's it, but on the way, we caught a rumble from the cops, somewhere when we got closer to Chicago. We had changed the license
plates and everything, and it became a shoot out in the car, shooting back and forth. We got away. But in that shoot up,
we passed Tony Spilotro was on a street, a side
street where he lived. And he was in the car talking
to a couple of his buddies, and we got in back of him 'cause
he was blocking the street, and we were being chased. And, you know, I start blowing the horn. "Move out of the fucking
way," we're yelling. I didn't know Tony was in the car. So Tony knew something was
up, and he told the guy, "Move over there, these guys are, "whoever they are, they're being chased." They pull over. We hit the car, and drew
a couple shots, got away. Got rid of the guns and
everything, the car, see Tony the following day. Was that you? I said, "Yeah." He says, "What the?" I said, "Ah, we stuck up
some tavern in Cicero." He says, there's an
easier way to make money. I says, "How?" He says, "Bank routes." I say, "I ain't sticking up no banks. "I ain't sticking up no banks." He says, "You grab the carrier." He says they go in, and they get money, and then they bring it
back to the business. He says, "I'm doing it
right now with Turk." He was with Torello back then. That's a long time ago. So I says, he says that you
could go with us now and then. I said, "All right." So I got my two partners, the guys I mentioned previously, not Gino, Paulie and Richard Gorman. - [Mark] Yeah. - So we just went on the bank route, and we grabbed a few tellers. People are creatures of habit. They do the same damn thing
every day if they're, you know. They go to the same stores. They go to the same banks. They go to the same businesses. So we followed them. They were very easy. A couple of cars, two guys,
stick 'em up in the car. We used to grab 'em right on the street walking out of the bank. You know, $20,000, $15,000. That's a lot of money
back then, a lot of money. - [Mark] Right. - Now it's like $20, $20,000, right? So we grabbed these people. So then, we were getting
bigger and bigger, making bigger and bigger money, but we wanted to stop
doing them bank robberies because they would start
laying traps for ya. So we did one in Wisconsin. That was the last one. And then we said, that's it. We won't do no more 'cause
the cops are wait for you. And eventually they're gonna catch you. They didn't have all them
cameras like they got now. So then we started doing
burglaries, house burglaries, but they was all tips. Everything we got was inside information. And then I went to jail. Shit thing I went to jail for. When I got outta jail, I was 19. I went in in 1959, I believe. I got out in '60. It was only a year. It was in the House of
Corrections, so I had a, I had a felony reduced to a misdemeanor. That's why I was, two
times, I had 'em reduced. Money, you could always
pay off the judges. So I get out, and Tony visits me. You know, hey, how you doing? I did like 10 months on it. And he said, I got a good
score for you and Dickie, Richard Gorman. He says, the jeweler building. I said, "Well, where's that?" It's The Mallers Building,
downtown on Wabash Street. "And how we gonna rob that joint?" I said. "That's the whole building's
full of jewelers." You know, they got crash
gates that come down and everything, if the alarm goes off. You ain't getting out of there. So he says, "There's gonna
be a New York Jeweler "gonna be in there. "You and Richard get a
room at the Palmer House. "Somebody'll call you when
that jeweler is in the, "that New York jeweler
is with the two jewelers "that owned the jewelry company there." That sounded easy enough. So Richard and I, couple
of times we did it. We parked our war car in Forest Park, jumped the "L," and it'd take
you right down the freeway. And we'd go in Marshall
Fields in the basement. We walk up the stairs, go
over to the Palmer House which it was then. We'd get a room. We'd lay in the room until the phone rang. When the phone rang, and the guy'd say, "Well, your package didn't
come, Mr. Sterling." That means the jeweler wasn't there. So I think the second or
third time we get that call, and said, "Your package has arrived." So we put our top coats on, our fedoras, put the 45's in the briefcase, went across the street
because the Maller Building was right across the street from the "L," which was in the basement, you
know, a subway, I should say. So we took the, we took the
elevator up to the third floor, walked two flights up, took
the elevator up another flight, then walked up another flight. Show, in case they had any cameras. Then we walked into the, it
was like a reception area. And we stood side by side, and
Dickie knocked on the door, and the people, guy looked out, he showed a card, investigated. We understand there's gonna, do you have a problem over there? And the guy opened up the door. So he opened up the door, we run in. There was two brothers, jewelers. They were Jewish guys. Zimmerman, I think their
name was, I'm not sure. And the New York jeweler, so we got 'em, we taped 'em up, and I noticed the windows were up, blinds. So I closed the blinds,
and I go to the safe while he's going through their pockets. There's a bag, a pouch
this big, he got it. He said, "I got it." So I says, "Come here." He comes over, I say,
"Fucking safe's open." There's nothing in the safe. He went, shh, he went like that. He picked up on it before I did. It was an inside job. The jewelers cleaned out the safe. When he seen the safe,
the kid was sharp, Dickie. Rich, I call him Dickie all the time. I said, "Ah, these mother fuckers, ah." I went like that. So I got all this shit,
and I hand it to Dickie. And he says, I'm gonna go down, and I'm gonna wait by the "L" for you. I waited five, ten minutes
with these guys in the room. Now, when I was sure he was out of the building, then I went down. Same routine, elevator,
or I walked two flights down the elevator, walked a
flight, elevator, all right. 'Cause them gates come down. These guys scream robbery,
boom, the gates come down. You ain't going nowhere. - [Mark] Then you're stuck. - So I go down, I meet him at the subway. We jump on the "L," boom,
we go to Forest Park, We go to Mannheim Road, where Tony Spilotro was in a
motel room with this guy, Mike, waiting for us to come
back with the goods. Cause he was gonna pay us. So I hand him, we hand him the stuff, but on the way there, of course, we're checking out the pouch, and they're all in, loose
diamonds in the wax paper. Dickie says, "Man," he says, "We're getting less money than we should." He says, "Look at this." And I look, I said, "Holy, fuck." A lot of loose diamonds, I mean, you're talking a pouch
this full of diamonds. And I don't wanna name
how much money we get because I'm embarrassed, but I trusted my friend Tony, right? Wind up as Tony, and Mike and the Outfit made most of the money. So we got rid of it. We went back. Dickie went to his place. I went to the lounge, in
Elmwood Park there was a lounge. And we were watching the news guys, and then it comes over the air. It comes over the air,
right after the robbery now, it's only a matter of two hours. Big, they call it a $500,000 robbery, and it was the biggest robbery in Chicago history at the time. And I look and I go,
but I don't say nothing. Everybody's going, "Man,
them guys really got lucky." I wonder who they were. I'm sitting right with them. Fucking guys never knew it was me, right? Three days later, I get
pulled over by the detectives. They says "Hanhardt wants to talk to you." Hanhardt was in charge
of the robbery unit. I said, "What the fuck
does he want with me?" You know? So I go downtown, I go to, what is the name of it? It was a police station. I can't even think of the name of it now. Shakespeare, so I go there,
and I go up to his office. They take the cuffs off. He says, "You want some
coffee or a donut?" Seriously. And I goes, "No, what do you want?" "What's up?" He said, "I'd never fucking
believe it in a million years." "What, what are you
talking about?" I said. "What are you hauling me here for?" "It's you, fucking did that
robbery, the Maller Building." And I fucking said, "How
does this guy know that?" How did, I only been out of jail a week. I didn't even know he
knew I was out of jail, I said, "What are you talking about?" I says, "What Maller Building?" "What robbery?" He's "I know you've done
that fucking robbery." He says, "You and Dickie Gorman." I says, "You got the wrong information." He says, "I can't prove it." He says, "I just want you to know." And he says, "You can go." I didn't know at that time that Hanhardt was already under control by the Chicago Outfit. So one of them loose mouthed guys had probably told this fucking cop. So you see what I mean? They loose mouths, loose lips, sink ships. So that's what happened. That was, that was a big one. Then I did Brinks trucks,
and all of that shit. - [Mark] What was the one
that you're famous for in down in Calumet City, Indiana? - Aw, the bank vault? - [Mark] Yeah, the bank vault. - Yeah, I'm a kid, still a
very young kid in the 50's. Tony comes to me, and he
says, "Listen, I got a score." He says, "With tree guys that
you don't know, but I know. "And Dickie and you'll be together." He says, "We're gonna do it together. "There's gonna be six
of us, a bank score." I said, "Here we go with the banks again." He says, "No, no, no, we're
gonna go into the vault." I says, "Aw, that's a new experience." I said, "All right." So I get, meet one of
the guys that was there. His name was Joe Lombardo,
and unbeknown to me that in later years, Joe
Lombardo would become our boss. He was just right then and there, Joe was working as a, he
worked the crap games, gambling in Chicago, and he's got his two friends. I don't even know who they are. I don't even know what
their fucking names are. I don't even know. I didn't care. So we all take a ride, the six of us. We go to Calumet City, and I see the bank. And then I see an empty building
next to it, right up to it. But they got two foundations. At least that's building empty. We go through the foundation, double foundation which
would make it that big. I said, "We'll be digging
a week over there," I said, "to get through that." He said, "Well, we're getting
into the empty building. "We go down to the basement." So we figured it out. We go through the foundations. Then we know how many,
we walked off the footage from one foundation to the bank vault because the bank had a basement too. So we walked it off and come
right up underneath the vault. We get underneath the vault,
the day of the robbery. Not that day, the day of the robbery. We come equipped with two
cars, radios and all the tools. We knew we couldn't smoke. We couldn't eat. And we couldn't piss
because DNA, you know, we thought they could get that stuff then. We thought of that stuff
before they made it known. So we did all of that. And it was a lot of work, a lot of work. I mean, the hard part was
going through the floor from the basement. - [Mark] You got concrete. You got rebar. - Very, yeah, with rebar, and we had torches and tanks
and very, very difficult. And finally we get up in there, and we had a little ladder with us, and we got up in there. - [Mark] How many hours did this take? - Full day, a full day to
go through both of them. Exhausted, we were dirty and exhausted, and by the time we got in there, and we didn't have the up to date tools to open up the boxes because
there's double locks, but we managed to open them. We used the crowbars, and
hammers and chisels and sludges. We popped 'em open. We went for the bigger
boxes, the bigger boxes. Anything that was paper, useless to us. We left it there. We took the jewelry and cash. And at the end of the day, we
wound up with $750,000 cash and valued at probably a
million dollars in jewelry, but you don't get that. You get a quarter of it, you know, whatever the price is on jewelry. So then I come to find
out the Outfit gets 20%. I said, what the fuck. One of the guys didn't wanna pay. I don't know what happened
to him, but we all paid 20%. So I wind up with 50G. 50G at that age, I was a millionaire. - [Mark] Yeah. - It took us a day to count the money. We brought it up to this guy's house. The one that didn't want to give 20%, and it was like a full-size bed. And I remember we got
singles, five dollar bills, twenties, hundreds, and we're putting them in thousand dollar wrappers. They covered the bed a foot high. That's how money was on
that bed, a foot high. Our hands were totally green
from counting the money, totally green, the ink. And then we took our ends out,
and we'd left outta there. The guy had his windows
blocked off, boarded up. His wife, couldn't go in the room. He put a padlock on the door, and it was a good feeling
having that kind of, I immediately went and bought a new car. I bought new cars every
time I did something. I had a reputation as a car buff. People would say when your
ashtray's full of cigarettes, you'll sell it tomorrow. I'd sell it. I'd buy cars, three,
four cars a year easy. And I like cars, you know. I still like 'em. As you could see. - [Mark] Yeah. So you never got caught for that? - Never got what? - [Mark] You never did time for that. You never got caught? - No, I got, the one
Brink's truck that I robbed about five or six years later, a guy rolled in the case,
became a witness in the trial. - [Mark] So you got away
with it, except for that. - Oh, I spent the money. It was $366,000. - [Mark] These are big, - Big scores back then. - [Mark] Big scores of that era, right? - Then another one I did
by myself, Brinks truck, and I didn't have to
kick in any money then. - [Mark] That's what I was gonna ask. Did you have to give away 20%? - But I did give the guy
20% that give me the tip. What he did was this guy's
grandfather or uncle, I forgot, worked at this warehouse where all these armored
car trucks would pull in at the end of the day. A lot of 'em don't have enough time to go to the bank and drop the money that they collected all day. So they pull it into
the garage, the truck, and they'd hang the keys up on a pegboard. And then the old man, there
was a janitor in there, it was the kid's grandfather or uncle, sweeping, he'd see, you know, he'd know what was going on and wash the trucks. So the kid told me, he says, you know, my grandfather was, tell him I says to look
for a two-man truck. It's gotta be a two-man truck 'cause they're open all the way through. And if he sees one,
tell him to get the key. Tell him I want the key. I want the number of the truck. And when he spots it, gets it all settled where he knows he's got it,
I'll meet him that night. I'll go by the side door of the building. I'll knock on the door three times, tap on the door three times. He can hand me the key. He'll hand me the key, and I'll give it to him back in an hour. So I did it, and he hand me the key, and I made a wax impression of it. And I had a key gun in the car. I put some stuff in there to make it hard. And I made it, I made a key. I copied the key. - [Mark] Yeah. - So then I went back, and I gave him the original key back. I knocked on the door, he
opened up a little hand. I never seen his face. So for about a week straight, I followed that truck every
morning they left there. To see if it kept on
going to the last stop, and it was in Schaumburg. And they stopped, their last
stop, and they go have dinner. They go in there, two of
them cops, Brinks drivers. So I said, this is gonna work. They're right on time. Creatures of habit, that's the route. So then when I went in there, I went up to the back door of the truck, open up the door. I had their cap on, you
know, and a gray shirt. Open up the door, reached
in, grabbed three bags, pulled 'em out. I didn't lock the door. I knew what I was doing. I didn't like the door
because I know when they're, they're gonna be missing these bags. They could say they fell
out of the back door. This wasn't an inside job. So I just pushed the door closed. Threw the bags in the car,
war car, and took her off. Then I cut 'em open. I wound up with $90,000,
by myself, $90,000. I didn't have to kick no money in. Hard bags to open up. They're like nap, I mean,
they're real hard bags to open. I had to cut 'em open. And the next day it was on the news that some bags fell out of a truck, and they would appreciate
it, there was a reward if they were returned,
and I started laughing. I got away with it. - [Mark] That's great. - So all the guys were saying, man, I wish I woulda seen that
money laying on the street. I was laughing. So I never talked about that. - [Mark] So, so then at
some point you kind of, you got into being a hitman. - What? - [Mark] At some point you
got into being a hitman for the Chicago Outfit, right? - Yeah. - [Mark] Can you tell, like Sherwin Lisner was one of the people you? - Sherwin, Jerry, I call him Jerry Lisner. Sherman, that's what his name is. I call him Jerry. He was a, I don't know. What would you call a guy that would con your parents
of of their life savings? He'd defraud 'em out
of their life savings. And then they, you know, that's sad. So this, I didn't know it at the time. So this guy introduced him to me, and I talked to him,
and I didn't like him. He was a weasel-type guy, ya know. But every time I bump into the guy, he'd always cozy up to me. You know, I even thought,
get the fuck outta here. So I'd have a drink, and he'd
have his old lady with him, you know, big, tall
blonde with a boob job. She was beastly. So that was as far as my
friendship went with this guy. Now he gets busted, I
guess in Washington, DC. 'Cause if you go in front
of a federal grand jury in Washington D.C. that
means that you probably did whatever you did wrong in Washington D.C. I don't know he's going
in front of a grand jury. I have no idea. One day Tony calls me, and he said, "Joe Pignatello
wants to talk to us. "He's got some important news to tell us." I said, "What is it?" He said, I couldn't talk
to him on the phone. So we meet Joe Pignatello. Now Joe Pignatello owned
a restaurant in Las Vegas. This is where this took place. It was called Villa D' Este. The legitimate owner of the
place was Sam Giancana, Mo. He owned the property and
the business, and he did it, he put it up because he
likes his own restaurant. So that's the way he was. And Joe Pignatello was his driver. So he put everything under Joe's name. Everything was under Joe's name. So Tony and I go and meet Joe Pig. I call him Joe Pig. So he says, he's telling us, he says there was a lawyer
in there that has a client, and he said that his client was testifying on two guys in Nevada about a money laundering
scheme, something like that. And I said, I asked him who the guys were, and he said, "Frank
Cullotta and Tony Spilotro." And the lawyer says, "Do you know 'em?" And Joe says, no, I never heard of him. Joe says, "I never heard of 'em." So he continued talking to the guy, and then the guy left, the lawyer left. So Joe said, "He said he's
testifying on you guys "in front of a federal grand jury." So as we're walking out of the place, now he don't say it in front of Joe Pig. So we walk out of the place, he said, "You gotta kill him now. "You gotta whack him." I said, "I realize that." I says, "But I could
tell you this much, Tone, "They're gonna call me in
front of the grand jury "before I get the opportunity." Sure as shit the next day. Knocking on my door, I open up the door. I knew they were there. I seen 'em through the peephole. They didn't hide it, you know. They put their thumb up, but I could. So I opened up the door, and
they slapped me in the chest with a subpoena to appear in front of a
federal grand jury in D.C. So I said, okay, so now
I gotta get a lawyer, a lawyer out there in Virginia. So I go to the yellow
pages, and I get a lawyer. Fuck, I don't any lawyers in Virginia. And I got lucky and got a good lawyer. He didn't charge me a lot of money. So I flew out there to meet
the lawyer to go to court. First time I met him. We took, they got some kind
of an L or a train system that brings you right there. We go there, and I go in a
room to strike first attorneys in there with a couple of FBI agents. They're asking me questions. I'm lying, lying like a son of a gun. They're satisfied with my lies. They put me up in front of the grand jury. I give 'em testimony. I lie. I created stories like you can't imagine. I don't know where it came
from, but I created 'em. I get off the stand. They were all pleased. Now maybe they were pleased
'cause they knew different. They were going indict me for lying. I don't know. So when I get back to Vegas,
Tony says, "What'd you say?" I said, "I lied, what am I gonna say?" I said, "But you're the target." "They ain't calling you. "They called everybody else." They don't call the target, you know, unless they wanna put
you in jail for 18 months 'cause they know you're
gonna take the fifth. He says, "Well, now you gotta hurry up "and kill this mother fucker," he said. So a week goes by, he's
like, "What's the matter? "Why is it taking so long? "You want me to do it?" I says, "You ain't gonna
do nothing no more, Tony. "You know that, you're talking shit." I says, "Give me a little time. "I gotta get a guy." He says, "Don't bring Neumann with you. "Whatever you do, don't bring Neumann." I said "Why?" He said, "'Cause if they got
birds, dogs, cats, and kids, "he'll kill everything in the house." I said, "All right, I won't bring him." So I did mention it to Neumann. He says, "I wish his wife's there." Meaning Jerry's wife, "I'll kill her." I say, "You can't go, Tony
don't want you there." So I got somebody else,
and I killed the guy. I killed him in his home. - [Mark] How'd that go down? I mean, how do you? - How'd that go down? - [Mark] How do you
actually kill somebody? - Well, the guy came to Vegas. The hitman, the other hitman, and when he got to my
place, we got to my place, I called Tony's. I mean, I called Jerry Lisner's house, and I said, we became friends now. All right, we weren't
getting along up until that. I said, "How you doing, Jerry?" I said, "I got somebody you could rip off. "We could make some money on." "Oh, come on over." I said, "I ain't going over
there unless you got your, "if your wife's there and kids
there, I ain't coming over." "Uh, no, they're not
here, nobody's there." You sure? Yeah, I'm positive. Just happened to be at a war car, a car that you use to do crimes in, fictitiously owned, you know,
registered I should say. We grabbed a car, put the guns in there. I can't wear gloves. One gun, police radio. I can't have a walkie talkie. I can't have none of that. So the guy that's gonna be in the car listens to the police radio. And he's got all these stuff
that we're gonna get rid of after I kill this Lisner guy. So I go up to the door. Bing, bing, I knock a couple of times. I ring the bell, and I wipe, I try to wipe it with my Palm because I can't wear gloves because you'd notice it right away. He opens up the doors. I look to the right, I
look up the stairway. I'm listening. I says, "Your wife ain't home, your kids?" "Nah, nah." "You sure?" "Yeah." "Everything's cool? "Yeah." "'Cause I don't wanna talk." He turns around, boom, boom, boom. I shoot him in the back of
the, five times real quick. Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. He runs. He looks at me. Why are you doing that? I'm thinking, this guy should be dead. I was told to kill this guy with a 22 and use half loads from Tony. I did that. It was like shooting him
in the head with a cap gun, pellet gun. He runs, I chase him. When he gets into the kitchen dining area, the garage door's there,
leading into the garage. He hits the garage door button to open up their overhead door, I hear the door going up, and I hit it, and it stops the door. Stopped the door maybe
two feet, three feet. Meanwhile, he's down on
the ground between my legs. He's bleeding all over the place, and I gotta finish him. There's no way I could leave him now. There's just no way you could leave it. You're this far into it. So I ripped the cord out
of the water machine. I tie it around his neck,
and I pull it, and it breaks. This guy is not supposed to die. So now I reach over, I reach over, and I grab, they had knives in them peg boards they put them in in the kitchen. I reached over, and I grabbed it. He's still there. And just as I'm ready to come
down on him with the knife, that little garage door opens, and I'm, now I gotta, and
whoever it is, I gotta kill him. I don't wanna, but I gotta. What am I gonna do? So I go like this, it's
the guy, my partner. I go, "Jesus, you scared
the shit out of me." He said, "I counted the shots." He says, "And you didn't
come out, and I was worried." I said, "Did you hear
anything on the radio?" "No, nothing." He says, "None of the neighbors called." He said, "I brought extra bullets in." (Frank laughing) I couldn't believe it. So I take 'em. I take the shells out, put
'em in my pocket, reload it. He puts the pillow in back of his head. I put one in front, and
I emptied the bullet out in the frontal part of
his face, the bullets out. Then I say, "Come on, we'll
throw him in the pool." "Why?" He says, "Isn't that a little theatrical?" I says, "I got blood all over me." I says, "I got, from the gun,
the powder, come on, you too." Come on, drag him, throw him in the pool. We go into the pool up to our necks. The guy goes in the water, and he sinks. And we leave. That was it. Got rid of all the stuff. Came back to my place in our underwear. We rode back in our underwear,
and then I took a shower. My hands, get that shit off from the pool, and in case there was any remnants of that gunpowder, you know. So did he, later. And then I drove him to
the airport and he left. - [Mark] So when you get an order, from-- - Huh? - [Mark] When you get
an order from like Tony or from somebody like
that to hit somebody. - Gotta get an okay. - [Mark] Is it something you get paid for or is just something you just do? - Whenever you're ordered to do something, when I hear people say you get
paid for it, that's bullshit. There's no paycheck for killing anybody. If they order you to kill somebody, whoever orders you that's a boss, you know that they got the
okay to tell you to do it. It goes in front of two or
three bosses, and they decide if it's right for you to kill
whoever you're gonna kill. Or they come up to you and tell you, "All right listen, you gotta
take care of so and so." You don't question it. You do it. If you don't, then you become the victim because they're not gonna come to you if they didn't think you would say, you were gonna say no. So that's the process. - [Mark] Have you ever-- - So when I killed Lisner, I did ask Tony, "Did you get a okay on this?" He said, "Yes," but he didn't, he lied. I found that out later. - [Mark] Did you ever
get convicted of murder? - Convicted of it? - [Mark] Yeah. - I got immunity from prosecution. - [Mark] Which is why
you're able to talk here. - Yeah, I got immunity from prosecution as long as I cooperated
with the government. - [Mark] Yeah, we'll
get into that in a bit. - So I could freely talk
about stuff like that or else I wouldn't talk about it. And I'm not bragging
about it, first of all. You don't brag about stuff like that. It's not nice. It's not right, but it's
no different, I say, and some people say, "Well how could you put
it, compared it to?" It's no different than
being in the military and killing a lot of people
that you don't even see. - [Mark] You'd been given an order. - You know, that's it, you know. - [Mark] Yeah, do you,
I mean, so do you have like memories of these murders? - No. - [Mark] Or are their psychological
repercussions later on? Or do you stay up at night
or anything like that? - I do not have any repercussions
in thought or memory about the people I killed because I'd be in a straight jacket. It's just something you
wash out of your mind. You have to do it. And that's something I'd done. And if you can't, that's the way it is. You just, you have to get
it out out of your head. - [Mark] I think it takes
a certain personality type, certain series of traits
to be able to do that. - Well, you have to be to
start with a little strong, strong character, strong inside, a willpower to forget, you know, to try and forget I'd done it. The only time I remember this nonsense is when I'm interviewed about it. Otherwise I never talked about it. Never brag about it. - [Mark] Never comes up. - It's nothing to brag about. - [Mark] So Tony, Tony Spilotro
continues to move up, right? - Oh, yeah, by, well, he
was the boss out there. In Vegas, Tony was the boss. I was his underboss. - [Mark] Was he the boss in
Chicago when he left, or? - He was a boss in Chicago. If he went back there, he'd be a boss. You gotta remember though, if you're not in the state
that you're a boss in, and you're in another state, you don't control that state anymore. They got another guy that'll take it over. If you come back, you may
jump into that position again, whatever territory you had. It's, so he couldn't be a
boss in Chicago, excuse me. - [Mark] Yeah, so how did
your relationship with Tony change over the years? Because you started off-- - Tony was getting more paranoid,
more paranoid every day. - [Mark] Right. - And I used to see it as very obvious. And, but yet he always
was in the limelight. He managed to keep
himself in the limelight. He'd always come to my
restaurant, cost me a lot of heat coming to the restaurant all the time. He caused me all this heat, trying to do a legitimate business. So he started getting more
paranoid, more paranoid. And I told him, "You
gotta slow down, Tony." "What do you mean?" I says, "I could see it's
getting a hold of you, "all this news and all of that." He says, "Well, they're lying." I said, "Of course they're
lying on a lot of things." I said, "Ignore it." He said, "You know that fucking RICO law. "They could put you in
jail for that RICO law. "They can lie all they want. "They put you in the newspaper. "They show association, put
you in jail for 20 years." Which he had a point, you know? So I start noticing it more and more. Tony was falling into, more involved with his
family, his wife and his kid. He was becoming a guy that I
felt didn't want to go to jail. Wanted to become a
family man, stay at home. He's not in Chicago now. Now his next step I thought
would be leave Vegas. Let somebody else come
out there and be the boss, or try to leave Vegas. He wanted to start a new life, I know, cause he used to say, "I'm
fed up with this shit. "I'm fed up with it." And he was happy to, you
know, have a son and a wife. So I always got strange
feelings out of that when he was doing that, and I don't know what his plans were. I'll leave that up to your
audience to figure it out. But I could see he was
getting a little tired of fighting the police, the newspapers, and he wasn't gonna run anywhere. It wasn't gonna run away,
in other words, disappear if he had a case going. He wouldn't do that because of his family. He loved them too much. He wasn't gonna leave because if you leave and go to Hong Kong or wherever you run to, they'll get you. Eventually they'll get you. The feds'll get you. Somewhere along the line they get, don't forget they got millions
and millions of dollars they get from the taxpayer, tax people, the taxpayers, I should
say, to go after you. So and he knew that. So Tony would never run,
nor would his brother. That's the way it is. - [Mark] And then
eventually something came up where he put a hit out on you, right? - He did what? - [Mark] He, there was a hit. You were in prison, but
you heard a recording? - Yeah I was pulled
into an interview room. I was found guilty on a case, and I was pulled into an interview room by a couple of agents. And they told me that there
was a contract on my life, and I told them get the fuck out of there, 'cause I know the game. They play this game. They all play that game. Whether they're agents or regular locals. They have to do it. He said, "My responsibility as
a federal agent to inform you that there's a contract out on your life." I said, "Get the fuck out of here." And I told the cops,
send me down to my cell. So they bring me down., and I says, "If you're not bringing me to," they had me in the dormitory. "You're putting me in a cell." He says, "Because there's a
contract out on your life." What the fuck? Then the radio comes on. "Bring him back upstairs." Like, again? I go back upstairs. They got this recording. They want me to hear,
listen to some message, listen to some wire taps. So I listened to the wire tap, and I hear one guy on the other end, and it's saying, "What's
going on out there in Vegas?" And Tony said, "I can't control this guy. "He's like a loose cannon." Meaning me. So the agent says, "What did you hear?" "Who do you hear listening to?" He said, I'm not ready to
talk to you about that. So he stands there silent. And then a guy says, "Well,
who's doing all them, "who's whacking people
and all them robberies?" He says, "That other guy, I'm telling you. "I can't control him," he says. "He's got a tough crew of
guys that are with him." He says, "Every day I think
they might take it over, "take me out." You know, and the guy says, "Well, then you know what you gotta do. "He's gonna make bond isn't he?" He says, "Yeah, he'll get an appeal bond." He says, "Then you gotta
clean your dirty laundry." Well, fuck. Let me tell you something. I've had 39 friends in
my lifetime, maybe more, that were killed by the Outfit. I didn't wanna be 39 or 40. So I went back down to the cell. I thought about it overnight, got up in the morning, and I told him, "Get a hold of that agent that was there. "I wanna, just get a hold of that agent, "I wanna talk to him." - [Mark] But this is, this
is, the recording was Tony. - Yeah, it was Tony. - [Mark] And this is somebody
that you've been tight with for how long? - We were 12 years old. I don't know how many
years, I was 48 or 49 when I rolled I think. - [Mark] But you were very close. - Oh, when these guys,
when I heard them said it, my eyes started watering, you know, 'cause it broke my heart. I don't give a shit about jail. Jail, it's just an inconvenience. Guys like us make it in there. It's not some place you look to go to or relish the thought,
oh, I can't wait to go. If you could avoid it, of
course, you're gonna avoid it. But to hear this guy talk
about wanting to kill me, having to kill me, and taking all the weight off
himself and pushing it on me, it bothered me, troubling me deeply. But it took a lot for
me to become a witness. I wasn't raised this way. It took me 25 years to get over the fact that I was a witness. 25 years I hated myself. 25, and I'm bullshitting nobody. But then I became, actually,
I'm a religious guy now. I really am, and all these things are behind me, and I done the right thing. He was dishonorable to me. I would have probably got killed
in jail or on the streets. - [Mark] Right, either way. - I made the wise choice. It was difficult for me
to also become a witness because of my mother and my
family, my sister and brother. You know, I don't want
'em to be disgraced. They'd have to live with that
'cause they're still living in that area or were living in that area. But time goes by and time heals all. It does. 25 years later, I could
go back to that city. I could, I was back there recently. I could go anywhere I want. Nobody bothers me. They all understand. They understand why I rolled. They didn't like it at first. They were very mad. They said, why would
he do that, meaning me. Somebody had a fuck him around pretty good for him to do that 'cause
he's a standup guy. They're referring to me. What the fuck did, they referred
to Tony as the little guy? What did that little guy do to him? They were starting to dislike Tony a lot because of his brother, the two of 'em. And that's it. - [Mark] Well, that's the
ultimate fuck around isn't it? - I can't hear ya. - [Mark] That's the ultimate
fuck around, isn't it? Somebody fucking, they're
trying to kill you. - Yeah, you know, I mean, come on. You know, I mean, like I
said, 39, 40 guys I know who were whacked, thinking,
well, I'm gonna be all right. They ain't gonna do it to me. They like me too much. Your best friend brings
you to the gallows, boom. That's it. - [Mark] Yeah. - Okay? - [Mark] So Tony, what
happened to him eventually? What happened to Tony eventually, he? - Tony was, eventually,
you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Eventually Tony was murdered. And I told, well, I got a call. I was in the witness protection program, an FBI guy, his name was Dennis Armley. He said to me, "Tony and his
brother Michael disappeared." He said, "Where did they run to?" I said, "They didn't run anywhere." He says, "How do you know that?" I say, "I know Tony, they're dead." He said, "How do you?" I said, "I don't know, I'm
telling you they're dead. "Tony's not gonna run." I'm on the telephone. I'm in Mobile, Alabama. This agent's calling me from Vegas. - [Mark] That where
your witness protection? - Well that was one of
the first spots I went. - [Mark] Yeah. - And he says, "Well, I'll get back to
you in a couple days." Couple days later, he didn't
have to get back to me. It was on the news that they'd discovered
the bodies in a cornfield. And he said, "Where do you
suppose they were killed?" They have dust in their lungs. They weren't killed in no cornfield. I said, 'cause they got
dust in their lungs, probably when they threw 'em in there, that dirt flew up in their mouth. I said, "They were killed in
either Cicero or Bensenville." Eventually you'll find out. And I was right. There were killed in
Bensenville in a basement. He said, "Well, they
were beaten to death." That tells you right then and there. It was in a residential area. I'm telling this agent this. It was residential. They can't use a gun. They could use knives. They could choke him. They could kick him. They could beat him. He said, "Well, there was
no physical marks or bruises "all over their faces and back." Then they beat 'em with the metal bats or they kicked 'em or they
punched 'em, whatever. But they beat 'em to death. - [Mark] So when the hit is-- - I didn't like the idea of that, but I didn't like, you
know, it bothered me. It really bothered me that they were killed like
that, in that fashion. But I did understand why because they couldn't make, shoot 'em. - [Mark] So when a hit
is put out on somebody, is it typically guns,
knives, baseball bats? - Whatever you choose to do. Whatever it calls for in that area - [Mark] Whatever works. - Yeah, if you choose
the, you could use a 45, use a 45, use a 22, use a 22. You've gotta use the knife, you've gotta use the knife. Whatever the situation calls for. You gotta use dynamite, use dynamite. Riga caro, whatever it is. - [Mark] So what do you think the, I mean, I'm trying to get a handle
on the psychological traits of somebody that has a life of crime as opposed to like say just a
regular law-abiding citizen. - A regular Mickey the Mope. Yeah, you know, I respect people that, and I'm not bullshitting
any of you's right now. I respect a man that
works from nine to five. They make good money, and they save money. This is the life they choose to live, and God bless them for it. I choose the life I wanted to live is because I found it glamorous. I did find out that money don't last long 'cause easy, and it's
not easy come either, but I'm gonna use that term. Easy come, easy go. You gotta remember,
we're up 24 hours a day, thinking and robbing. Business guy or a guy
that works for a living, he's sleeping eight, nine hours. We're out there spending money. So you, most guys that were
in the Outfit died broke, died busted. I'm not even gonna go into that list. There's only a few that had
a lot of money at the end, only a few. You spend money, you got too many hours. I respect the working-class people a lot. Now some of these white
collar crimes, another story. Biggest crooks in the world. Let's go to Washington D.C. - [Mark] Yeah. - I don't wanna get into politics, but they're all criminals, Republicans and Democrats
alike, big liars, all of 'em. We were saints compared to these people. The only thing is they didn't kill people, but they kill 'em another way. - [Mark] Yeah. (both laughing) - Anyway, I thought I'd throw that out. - [Mark] Right, thank you
very much for talking to me. - No problem. - [Mark] Your stories are amazing. - Thank you. - [Mark] Thank you, man.
Chicagoland locations mentioned: Grand and Ogden and “The Old Neighborhood”, Taylor Street and the ‘Forty-Two Gang’, Statesville Penitentiary, tavern robberies in Cicero and Chicago Police shootouts, robbing Jewelers row on Wabash via Forest Park > the El > Marshall Field’s > Palmer House, Mannheim Road, Elmwood Park lounge, Calumet City bank vaults, Schaumburg, Bensenville
Video published on 10/7/19. Frank Cullotta died 8/20/20, aged 81, due to complications of COVID-19
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Cullotta
Thank you. This is excellent. Well worth the time.
Watched a good chunk of this. Super interesting.
Did he have a son, Duncan Cullotta?