Top 10 Good Games with One Annoying Rule

[Music] so [Music] hey everybody i'm tom vassell i'm z garcia what's happening i'm mike d'alessio welcome to top 10 blue games or we're very if you notice we're we're we're and with the blue clipboards we're on fire we are i have a nice clipboard but you do you've got a padded clipboard over there you have that nice padded clipboard this is my own personal clipboard i didn't know we were allowed to bring clipboards from home tom this is michael grove we had to use company or you know issue thank you clipboards all right so today we're talking about top 10 games that we like with one annoying rule for me when i made this list there's a lot of games where i could say well i don't like all the rules or you know if there's i mean yeah yeah sure this rule is so terrible i hate the game there's a lot of games like that yeah i don't like this right therefore i don't like the game i didn't put those on the list because i don't like the game right yeah this was a tricky list for me for a couple of reasons number one i don't like house ruling games i just for some reason it just makes me uncomfortable right so so i don't really even necessarily think i would be using house rules to get rid of these rules um and also when i think about games i found when trying to put this list together that i don't necessarily do well at remembering specific individual rules i think of games like in a holistic way i kind of know how the game works right but i have to be sitting down in front of the game to remember a lot of specific rules sure the way it hits you like no i don't like that so then you forget about it right so i have a feeling both of your lists i'm going to be like oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah for sure no if you will with these um these are so esoteric yeah yeah that one's i don't think they are but and i also have a mix of things i just deal with and things i do change okay i change almost all of mine with the exception of two um now i only change a couple but none of them are there's very few very major ones anyway yeah be because if you change that you change the whole tenor of the game sometimes yeah yeah yeah right this has to be games that you do like and that little thing is annoying but then you you deal with it right because otherwise yeah otherwise otherwise it's just not not games we don't like right correct i'm curious i'm very very curious what you guys put in your list and i normally want to cross over right you know what huh i said the crossover thing you said is great [Laughter] yeah you think we all have one crossover at least okay i feel comfortable in one i feel comfortable in one crossover i'm gonna say you guys have see you have to mention this one thing you do not yes okay that's on there so two crossovers really gosh okay there's only one i feel comfortable crossing over and it's only with with tom i see how it is mike oh wait he's calling it well you're my one annoying rule new number one that's right delicio let's get started that's what it usually is hey number 10. look i figured this could be a potentially controversial list right i mean anytime you talk about games particularly i think it could be it's so inflammatory maybe incendiary number 10 is not no no it's the opposite i i decided i want to start calm right it's something that's probably wrestling the whole thing is directly i don't think anyone's gonna have any issue with this one uh i don't think this will create any kind of controversy at all so my number 10 is ankh that's right the merge rule so yeah really yes uh as soon as i knew we were doing this list and uh you know i i thought okay is this gonna make it on the list and i'm not putting it on here just for fun just for show i really think this fits because i like the game obviously i rated it an a it could go up i don't like the merge rule now like i said a little while ago i'm pretty opposed to house ruling i don't know if i'm going to play this without the merge rule i just need to be very careful that if i'm introducing this game to new people that i go very very very hard into hey this is something that's going to happen be prepared if you don't like it you know if you're if you're trying to have an open mind um but wow that looks speaks a million no no no i just i'm i'm amused about it but i want to clear something up before we go farther yeah we decided on the topic of this list yes weeks ago because we knew it would take longer to do before we had even played on right and anku's not on my list i just wouldn't um also not on my list that's fine stay on your own i i understand judging by the the ratio of comments it's too new that's why it is new and i knew that that was a little bit of a risk on this one but that's okay based on the ratio of comments in our review or in any place you see this talked about percent or about the murder ninety percent of the conversations are about how about that merge mechanism and there are people out there that love it that it's certainly you know innovative there's no question and part of the resistance could be that it is but i'm putting it on there because it's a rule that just like i said in the review i think it's very clever i just don't think it's a lot of fun so that's why it's on my list but i still think the game is great i have only anywhere to go up from here there you go i'm setting me next yeah yes okay well i might really are super safe bets now i mean this is like after us we can do whatever we want i mostly ranked these by the way kind of based on how annoying it is that's kind of among the package i mean the game how much i like the game doesn't really go up in a steady fashion i agree with from least annoying to most annoying yeah basically yes so this number 10 is a pretty simple tiny little thing it goes away immediately at the beginning of the game i just think it's not the best way to do it and that is king of tokyo in king of tokyo the first player who comes you begin out of tokyo right and the first player who makes it into tokyo is whoever first rolls a claw or two or three or all five and they do nothing they get you in and you score a point but you don't damage anybody you don't do anything so rolling more than one on the roll that gets you in is garbage and i've actively seen almost in almost every game you see players like roll three and then like re-roll two of them try to get away from the claws which you do not normally do in that game right i would much rather there be a a rule in place where someone at the table begins there and we start the game got it as opposed to there being a rule to just sort of get in the first time and then it's never not occupied again it seems like a weird rule this does not bother me at all i just wish someone would be again there like do a roll outside of the game everybody roll most claws you begin there and now we start the game you know what i'm saying i do i just don't like that you can have a very wasteful first route roll like that where you're like oh look at all these claws what do i get you're in tokyo now great so okay again this is a minor one but this is my number 10 and i really don't like it i don't like the way the game starts but i don't change it it goes away you know three minutes in it goes away but i don't love it yeah we actually had someone ask in a super chat if we could say if we change the rule or not so ankh we have not played long enough correct to to do that which is another reason i put my list because i never tried it without it uh bgo deck asked that and then okay gator dave said yay for mike but that's not worth talking about dave said yay for mike that's right he'll he'll turn on me by turn by by pick eight don't worry um so anyway my number 10 is also really minor in fact it probably bothers almost nobody but it bugs me just a little bit because i love this game a lot the game is dominion i love dominion it just bugs me the ending condition is simply when the decks are gone or when the problems are gone the game ends and i think it's just very easily amended it ends as soon as everyone has had the same number of turns that's it it's because it's not equal it's a very minor thing dominion has a tiny tiny first player advantage not massive um tiny first player advantage uh so i just play that way as long as the other people table are good with it i'd rather play that way again very very minor yeah i bet if you didn't even say it people wouldn't even necessarily oh i think about it though because you're sitting there like oh they're going to run out of that deck yeah i would like one more turn and if and it's like well you had one more turn than me if you got two points and you beat me it feels like yeah what even is the reason i guess for not giving people equal turns in that game that the shuffle evens out i give it maybe okay but it doesn't see it ends instantly so you could literally have one more turn and it's really good three people have a turn and the fourth person doesn't or sure again this is very very very very minor okay but annoying there you go fair enough [Music] roy was saying not to talk when we come in so trolling wrong all right my number nine uh you you both brought up some uh minor nitpicky you might say here we go mike is bringing the heavy hammer if angus you're 10 i don't know what else we can do i'm it's not a big deal but it does i've always found it a little annoying and this is another well-loved game and it's well up by me or it wouldn't be on the list this is from wingspan any ideas what the what the rule is this might be fun guessing what the rule is oh that's okay that was a good idea uh it's not easy to clear the tray in the middle no you can't clear the tray yeah it's not yours it's not that it clears it's very minor it's a nitpicky little thing uh you trigger the bird the eggs don't mean anything to different colors no no no i wouldn't count that as a rule it's it's managing the bird feeder the food in the bird feeder the whole idea of you you roll the dice you the the food you're gonna choose you take outside of the bird feeder inside the bird feeder if everything is showing one face then you can choose to pick those all up it just feels a little bit i agree it feels the slightest bitcoin i agree and it's not a big deal right but it it's in such a smooth elegant game it's the one time i feel like it just kind of like oh wait um oh wait there's all the same i can and does this the same one if it has the the worm and this on it is that different than just the word which it is that's a unique face so it's just a little thing but this is those are different yes that's a unique face different faces right i don't often run into that because almost no one ever not takes those numbers those are usually the things you do reset the entire pool of dice correct when you do that that's exactly right so it just almost seems like it would be easier to be like when there's one die left re-roll re-roll it but that sometimes it'll be too punishing it's too limiting i get why it's done right but i agree with you that maybe yeah maybe there would be another sort of smoother system to do that again it's just a little nitpicky thing but but it came to mind and so i thought yeah i wish there was a little slightly different way because that's a good idea i have to explain it every time you know multiple times when i'm teaching it is the trickiest thing i think yeah yeah that's a good call that's a good one wow look at that look at that list picking back up oh my goodness finally finally a good thing that's right okay this is one that i think neither one of you guys have played it is a game called via magicka which is a the representative theme no no i gotcha this is the reprint retheme of uh rise of augustus i want to play this one is it in the library i don't know what it did it come through us i reviewed it a long time ago yeah he keeps it with all of his fancy clipboards that's exactly where it is um there's a rule in rise of augustus yes that deals with something that comes up in the game that was removed from via magicka and that is very simple there's a tiebreaker rule okay if two people call bingo at the same time the game's a bingo style game you say audio caesar's what you're supposed to say you don't well you can say that sure but if two people complete cards at the same time right you then check a little number in the corner of the card that's like just the tie breaker number it's like a mine says 37 mine's 52 then one of us goes first i forget which one if it's high or low via magicka does not have that you're supposed to shout first [Applause] [Music] that's annoying yeah and you might think all right does it really matter it matters because you then will score that and and take a new one from the pool is it the end you know game breaking no it's just kind of annoying what are you supposed to say magic juice i don't know what you're supposed to say say something probably that's what you should say and so i really don't like that they removed that rule i get that the game went lighter they made it simpler they made it cuter shorter all of those things but it needs to keep a tie breaking thing because it will happen yeah that's in most games ones or if not every other game at least one so i just i hate that kind of mechanism in a game that is otherwise strategic yeah i'm keeping rise of it again slap a thing or whatever oh come on not not slapping in this game slapping in this game yeah but i hate those games generally whereas i like this game except for that one rule so via magicka i think i house rule this one i just say most symbols goes first or something like i try to find a way to give it order yeah or i have a token go between the players and if it happens then you go and give me the token or whatever rock paper scissors my number nine is one i have i do house rule in fact if i teach you the game i'm i don't even tell you the correct rules um for which game i'm not there yet come on say the game no i'm good i'm oh yeah he's building anticipation no but the second edition of this game i think they fixed the rule for it not quite sure but anyway the game is sheriff of nottingham okay what's the rule the the rules the discard the disc two discard piles discard this manny and draw yeah yes right two discard piles and i know why it was changed the person who did it wanted a whole lot more strategy it slows the game down way too much for anyone to care i've never taught it with one discard pile and have someone come back and go wait i i want it two you should be consistent with the style right this is a light game you know don't get up in there and i love sheriff and i'm it's part of dice tare essentials right right and it's in the diced our essentials well it was part of the star essentials in the dice our essential rules it says to discard piles and i was like to your own thing yeah so that's a good call i i just really that every when we first did it the first time i was like i don't know if i like this second time i highly disliked it so yeah but it's an easy it's a really easy fix right exactly all right [Music] all right so for my number eight i don't think this would be on either of your lists because i don't think you like the game nearly as much as i do i hate it fantastic i hate it more than he does whoa my number eight game is title blades no i like it okay yeah i like it the most of the three of us for sure so yes i want to see if you have an idea of what the rule rule well my annoying thing is there's no player board but uh oh that doesn't bother me at all the annoying rule yeah you lose all the dice when you fight that's exactly but only when you fight monsters that's exactly right i don't like when you go to fight the monsters in the fold they call it the area that you go to fight monsters because everything else you're doing is like doing like stunts right and you you spend dice right they become exhausted and you have to get them back but when you go to fight a monster those dice are gone and oftentimes those are dice you've built up over multiple turns to get to be the most powerful dice because they're upgrading dice right and i get that you know you're fighting monsters is supposed to be dangerous and and also maybe it you know mechanically thins out your dice pool so you're not just loaded up with dice at the end of the game so there might be i stipulate there might be mechanical i'm sure there are mechanical reasons behind it but it again it hits that fun factor for me where it removes some of the fun it's like i i always go to the monsters because i feel like i have to not because i want to right you see what i'm getting at and it's only because i lose my dice and i feel like that should be something you're like yeah i'm gonna go fight a monster i'm always like all right i i've got to fight this monster and these guys are gone these guys are gone now so my concern with that rule and i i don't love it either but my concern is the ebb and flow of the game yeah so if you fight a monster on turn the second last turn of the game right you can't build back up on the last turn so you're like oh okay because it takes so long to recover from it does yes that's that's that that's why that would bother me it's very similar to a small world with like the ebb and flow of when you put something into decline in decline yeah there's some rounds where you're like i should go and decline but it's still close to the end of the game right i'll just hang on with these guys you know what i mean see what i can work out yeah because the final round isn't going to be worth it or whatever so yeah yeah but i i get you that always feels a little punishing right yeah so good game but i don't love that rule all right my number eight pig is an oldie but a goodie this is a card game a thing in which you bid it's called you're bluffing what is the rule i don't like in your bluffing the scoring there's a rule i actually change i do change this it's not the scoring because the scoring is really wonky the scoring is kind of wild because you see there's a there's a horse that's worth ten thousand there's a chicken it's worth ten that's like a thousand i think a thousand and ten a hundred or ten horses are an order of magnitude better of chickens don't you think i mean it has something to do where you can challenge me right back or there's something about a bouncing between very simple okay go ahead in this game you flip a card and then it auctions off when it's your turn you're the auctioneer people bid on it but that is the rule you flip a card and auction it off and the game is too long if you do that okay it takes it outside of what is basically like a quick sort of funny energetic card game it should be you know 45 minutes tops and it'll go way outside of that usually if you auction a card at a time so you auction two cards at a time oh you auction the news okay you auction both off and it has two effects it shortens the game but it also means that you are creating more moments where people have to challenge each other because if you want a horse yeah you gotta flip a horse and a pig and you're like i'm i'm in for that horse you also get the pig right and i'm the one collecting pigs so i'm like okay i'll offer you this for the pig so i like that it creates more interaction between the players you know it is a good rule i will i will follow this rule it's online i mean it's just it's not in the rule book but people have sort of you know done i need to play this game this seems like something i might enjoy this is yes fun game yeah so we have our library because it's worth it there's also a board game based on this which you have not played yet which has some similarities okay card game's a little cleaner especially now i know you can option two cards that's garbage i really like everything i really like i'm gonna i'm gonna roll die and that's my card you wanna go game changer i just broke your rules that's right never mind that my number uh eight is no longer uh your bluff number eight for me is the biggest game on all the lists and i played it more than both you put together and that's ether fields yes that's true i've played it but not nearly as much as you are you putting in are you literally yeah when you draw the card right you go to that in between phase yes and i'm saying no you don't well i considered actually putting this on a lot of changes right but not it's not changed it's now also an official variant it is an official barrier i was doing it first that's right it's called the og tom v variant basically they're like are you a baby play with this guy yes i am this is not how the game was designed but you can play it this way it's basically i don't like those they the dreams are so much fun we played one live here we had a great time playing it the slumbers are fun twice maybe three times in fact i wouldn't even argue maybe each slumber the first time it comes up it's super interesting yeah that's true after that you're like it's tv and i love the game so much outside that right so yeah that's a big change man i mean i know they made it official like folks were saying in the comments but that's not a tiny sort of change to the rules it is not that's a big one but the thing is it doesn't really change the core experience of the game i would argue well it does though a little bit and that's a question that's why i made this list because i love the game right but that bugs me about it to the point where i've changed it sure and i know it's a huge change it's it's the biggest of any change probably on anyone's list really yeah um but yeah so yeah i considered sticking with [Music] [Laughter] [Music] what you got all right so my number seven i'm noticing that these are all uh either fields very popular you only do the slumbers that's correct i only do the slumbers nothing but slumbers oh so you mike's mics are ranked in board game geek ready that's correct yeah in rank of weight porter or game geek struggle um bloomhaven that's my number seven gloomhaven are you serious i'm very serious what's the rule it better not be that miss card no no it's not the misconceptions i can't miss that's right this has nothing to do with the fact that i suck at this game what is the what is the rule well okay the the the role some people don't like is the actual long rest short rest rule but that's actually a major part of the no it's not that all right it's much less oh communication yes okay it's so annoying to me it's like okay it's limited communication it's like because because yes because you have initiatives and you're and you're not supposed to you can't be like well i've got a 26 what do you have i have a 47 you have to be like i'd really like to go first uh how important is it it to you it's that whole thing i don't like that here's the thing that shows me crazy i was just talking to somebody about this yeah this exact thing and was it i remember who it was but they said they played two players and they had they finally got the cards memorized so they even knew the number they'd be like i'm doing this okay we can do this action if i play solo with two characters right i have complete information absolutely so if i play two let's hide it that slapped myself right so i forget oh yeah it's just to me it just it's so gamery you know it's just so unnecessary i just completely ignored that rule yeah you know what you said you're doing an 88 thanks great the game and if you think that makes the game easier then just crank the level up one night if you think that makes it easy to do if you think that makes the game too easy then invite me to your table and watch how bad we is a balancing factor that's correct i am a self-balancing mechanism in gloomhaven you're guaranteed to lose uh so yeah i just this just bothers me it doesn't need to be there it's it just it's too i don't know i'm not even sure what the point is other than like you said maybe you know some people think it makes it too easy but i don't think i think it just simulates like not knowing what the other person's going to do yeah but you're allowed to say right i'm going to throw a rock you're allowed to say everything else about the cards right so once i know that card's 23 i just need to memorize that that's problematic that's the problem right that's the actual problem it's all or nothing right because if i know the card at 28 it is this and you can say the one part but not the other yeah then i just need to have a cheat sheet you're telling me and that's okay i agree with you yeah it's just it doesn't need to be there i don't think so anyway that's my number seven great game but uh that rule nah my number seven is a uh cooperative game that just got or is getting a fancy deluxe edition actually fancy deluxe that doesn't mean anything anymore they all get fancy deluxe editions not all of them but this one certainly is castle panic oh really is this again the limited communication thing that he just used it is not i don't remember if there is no communication there is some there's a minor limited communication encounter well this is a big thing at the end of the game oh this is i'm sorry not limited communication this is this this is the uh we all won but actually z1 because he killed the most stuff castle panic whoever del whoever deals the killing blow to a creature keeps it and at the end of the game right they get the grand murderer award or whatever we all win they get a trophy but you are the winner right you're the winner you are [Music] you are supposed to sometimes if things aren't if you don't feel the pressure or whatever not kill something or not like damage something so that somebody else doesn't kill it right and you can be the one to snipe it and blah blah blah no full co-op we all just win it's again one of the most ridiculous rules in cooperative games is this idea of we're all going to win but we might not want to help each other out at some point because you might win more than i win it's i will i never have and never will play with this rule it's one of the fastest thrown out rules that i've ever played with personally for sure like i read the rule book and as soon as i read that sentence i'm like well i'll never do that what's next you know what i mean right it goes away immediately but it's in there it's official what i could see is at the end where you just go i killed more than you did you know it's a joke who cares exactly but when it starts affecting my behavior in a fully cooperative game it's a problem that's true yeah if it actually affects what decisions you make yeah i'm like i'm not going to hurt that i have the card i'm not going to do it right that's because you might kill it right you know we're walking again it just doesn't work i just don't think coco semi co-op ideas work i really don't until i'm proven wrong they don't work you're wrong no you're fine my number seven is a game z hates so i don't know that you can guess the rule then it's tales of arabian nights ah this game has rules yes well that's one of the problems right it does have some rules right right i don't know the rule i dislike and tells arabian night is at the very beginning of the game you're setting the point values that you're going to get to you need to get 20 story points and 20 whatever the other points are called okay in game there's virtually no difference between those points except that some things will give you two story points and some will give you something else there's a little trackers on them where you get bonuses basically on how high you are who cares about that rule just at the end of the game say the first person to get to a total of 40 between the two of them wins yeah it's such a nonsensical they said the guy i i don't like it and most people might haven't liked it either because they'll be like i have 30 story points right so i need these points so i'm going to go out and do things oh that gave me more story points right so you don't really even have any agency over which i can't control what kind of points no just the different things that happen so that reminds me of another game which should not make my list i really don't think it'll make your list so i'll say it the ticket to ride rails and sales games of course not i don't like the game it has a similar rule we're at the beginning you take a number of trains and ships remember that oh you don't even know what you're supposed to be you don't know which route you're gonna end up going like you're taking it's like the kind of game that says oh here's three secret objectives draw three and then keep one before you know anything you know what i mean i'm like i don't know i'll keep this one because i don't know yeah this game tells you take 40 pieces between trains and ships and then there's a rule in game to trade some for others i'm like why are you making me pick i don't know which route i'm going right so i'm like oh i'm going to go this way and i've used a bunch of ships you block this little piece and i'm like my math is half off yeah it's ridiculous that rule and it sounds like the same thing yeah it really does except you know i just don't yeah i know you don't like the game but the game you will admit the game is barely a game at all right but have this kind of weird mathy rule in it makes no sense thank you very much we had a super chat in there roy uh someone saw about something z said they house rolled them who was the most helpful winning you just get like an mvp award you still won yeah yeah yeah i guess [Music] [Music] sorry we're really messing with roy today if there's any queue that's missed it's not it's not wrong it's not definitely not roy all right i'm sorry number six um is from a lovely family weight game a game that i love to introduce to players that don't play a lot of modern games this is kakanoko i know this one okay what's the rule the rule is that you can't pick something that's already done that's actually not the rule really yeah that's the rule that bugs me because you're like done done can i take us yeah does it have to do with the die rolling it doesn't have to do with the dog but this is funny there's so many annoying rules out there one of the faces is a third action it is if you get it enough you've played a considerable amount more game than the other players well that's true i forgot about that but yeah i've seen that happen actually um it's kind of a nitpicky thing but that's okay gosh that's who we said are big things they're probably both worse than the one i did yeah what is this is the plot objectives to me you've got three different types of objectives in the game right you've got the panda objectives which is basically eat a certain number and type of bamboo they're harder than the other ones not only are they harder they they the other ones make just visual sense you look at him like okay i need a two yellow and one green uh things in my belly okay good i got that one the other one is just the the height and the type of the bamboo stocks the plot ones have a particular orientation but there's a rule in the game that they all have to be irrigated all of those tiles have to be irrigated that's not intuitive at all and i don't really know why that rule is there it's just one of those things where i'm like okay why is this here because oftentimes i think it gets forgotten and i don't think it really changes the game all that much um why are these why do they all have to be irrigated or they also have some that they have to have particular improvements on them yes that's hard i will tell you at the end of the game yeah and i'm drawing cards i never draw from that deck right it's harder than the other two they are the hardest ones to fulfill they are the easiest ones the counterbalance of that is and during the end yes drawing from that dag it's the most likely to have already been done correct because you've got more tiles out there and and maybe no but i don't think you can do it if it's already done that was the rule that's a very right the rule is you can score it yeah you can just variant is if you draw one and it's already done discarded or redrawn that's actually the variance that is really yeah yeah the rule of the game is you can just put my list so that balances that a little bit but the way i balance that rule out what you're talking about is i just play with another variant which is in the rulebook right in which the last bamboo stalk on an irrigated tile can never be eaten got it that solves a few problems it makes the panda ones which are the easiest by far it brings them in line with the other ones a little bit those that's the easiest you know this this and this yeah those are very straightforward and easy to accomplish so he cannot eat the last piece right that's the first one it makes the grower the bamboo farmer guy makes his tasks easier okay because you already always have one at least one you always there's always one if it's irrigated right and lastly you can easily see if something's irrigated because it always has bamboo that's true okay so that rule cleans up a lot of those problems for me i like that yeah it's a i mean it's a good game even with these things it's a very light family weight because gamepl seems like it always gets forgotten and i i think it's because it's not intuitive yeah yeah you know yeah i get that so that rule with that you got to try that variant it's it's it cleans up a lot of stuff yeah because i still like the game i just don't love that rule all right what do you got all right my number six is my newest pick i just reviewed this um not that new it's like a week older than that you know as far as like our reviews go this is a game called mandalas stones oh i know what this is it's a very very easy obvious one i almost put this two on that i thought about it but i don't like the game as much as z that's my thing i liked it i liked it and i just didn't i cannot grasp how this was missed yeah it doesn't matter the way it works is you collect these stones there in the in the funky pattern you pick a place with one of the the larger pillars the black pillars there you go around it clockwise starting at any one of the fours around it and you stack up the stones yes right except the first one you take going clockwise from there goes to the bottom of the pile so if you're taking four of them like this this one here goes to the bottom of this one and then those two go to the bottom of the it's the dumbest rule it is it means nothing that's the thing i emailed them because i said i i think i must be missing something here i said even there's there's no functional reason because i could just say go counterclockwise and do it the other way yes right and the exact same thing so why not put that in the rulebook because when i pick things up i your your fingers just automatically shuffle them up you stack them up right you pick one up from each pile you go blue blue blue right you then don't reverse the stack and it doesn't change the game at all this is the least changing of a game rule champion because it doesn't change it is the definition of an annoying rule that isn't a rule right it doesn't do anything no it's all random a but also you can fix it in two ways go clock and counterclockwise and then you end up with the same stack exactly right or i just go clockwise and i stack them the way they are i just ignored the rule i said it was so annoying because it's random yes and this one blew my mind i read it a couple of times i'm like this can't yeah you think you're missing something it doesn't matter right like okay let me think no it doesn't matter yeah it doesn't matter right okay do not go through an extra stacking step for no good reason the game's good but it doesn't make any sense why that rule's in there so yeah mandalas stones ah what a weird thing to not iron out before you put the game out you know what i mean i don't get it i don't get it either my number six is the most obscure one on my list i thought it'd be a bigger game when it came out but it did not and that's neon neon is a city building game where with tiles and you're placing them a futuristic one and how you place them scores you points and you draft them you get a handful of tiles and you draft it okay i just think there's three disaster tiles in the game that just need to disappear okay it's only three yes and here's the problem when you play a disaster tile it's like everybody but the person who played it has to like lose a tile unless you have a certain amount of stuff like i have enough fire stations so the fire doesn't hurt me things like that so it comes around and i'm like i don't want to take this stupid tile right but if i don't take it someone's going to take it and then i'm going to get burned so the person who takes it takes it and they're like whatever you know i took it because it doesn't affect me everyone else hates it because it affects them and uh [Music] yeah just whoever draws it randomly plays it because they have to right and it's so no i mean you draft so you might be forced to eventually just play it because it's the last one but someone always takes it because they just don't want the bad thing to happen i mean if it's in your hand you probably do draft it just so you don't get hurt by it yeah but like the very beginning i have a really good tile that really helps me out and that fire tile and i'm like fine maybe you'll come back around to me and some people really like that some people like if it wasn't for those the game would be better no way yeah just cut those out actually dropped the the rating of the game a whole point for me wow i really like the game but and i know that a lot of city building games on computers have disasters i also always open the settings and click the button that says turn disasters off yeah and then build my big sim city and then turn on all the disasters at one time to see what happens yeah saving it also disasters in a video game affect you right it doesn't doesn't create a power imbalance between you and other players at the table right yeah that's why it doesn't work right because it's like i want to not just make myself better i'm going to hurt you yeah exactly and then avoid hurting me by picking this yeah it's not a ads take that so again it doesn't sound like it has that right yeah i have a theory also on why this game may not have been as popular as you thought it would be because it's called neon have you seen the cover tom i don't hate the cover and get out of my face all right so neon move blue it's thank you andrew smith for your super chat i appreciate it thank you [Music] so when the video stops you go are you ready oh yeah hey i'm back we're back all right my number five is a game though i i do feel like i don't know what's happening i'm the one drinking this and it's affecting you that's correct i am aware that this game happens to come up on a lot of my lists uh but that's a because i like it and also because it just seems to fit a lot of these my number five game comes from wildlands any idea what the rule if you know the game well enough i know you've played it i don't know if you've played it i gave it to you i gave you my copy i don't know if you've played it have you is it a setup no that's my favorite part of the game i love it that's great um it's one particular type of car that's a huge hit that draw two the wildcard it's the interrupt action i don't in the in the way i love the interrupt actually you know it's the one way you hurt somebody so when you're playing this game you have cards that can be do one of three things they're kind of the most powerful card you can either draw two more cards it's a free move action for any character on the board doesn't have to you don't have to have a symbol that's tied up or an interrupt okay so if someone's playing an action you can ah wait wait you interrupt great i love it so far then you you have to be allowed to play one card and then someone can interrupt you the problem is the timing it's like the stacking super annoying i get it but it's i have killed more people with an interrupt than any i mean more people with a with a machete than you have with interrupts i understand why it's there and again i like the game a lot i just wish there was a way to do it that did not it's like we're in the slow this game we're going we're going we're doing our thing we're picking up our gems we're punching people in the face no we have this interrupt with all of these timing rules you have to make sure that everyone's had a chance to play one action i've played in action anyone in i don't know if i could interrupt now and then you have to remember whose turn it was at the beginning first in last style like imagine the gathering rules it just there's a lot of that stuff that you just blows the game to a grinding halt for some reason it just bothers me it's annoying i get why it's there it's not even mechanically bad right i think you're right it can be very powerful i love it situation the most that ever happens is two people it never happens with all three yeah and i just it always makes me laugh i'm like i interrupt like i interrupt you i will say this mike i like that game not as much as you do but i like it and i honestly think the reason i got rid of the game is because of that rule yeah i think it takes a game that is very simple right and because because that car the way they explain it is there's three things it does yep draw two cards move anyone or interrupt this is the next page exactly right like um no that's not that doesn't mesh with the rest of it i like the game so much because mike is beating on z and z is almost dead and mike's like now what i'm like excuse me i got this right it's so fun but is it worth it that's right that's my number five wild lands interesting number five is also wildland interrupt okay okay fine so my number four actually interrupt now my number five is a weird one um i don't even know if you guys will agree with me that this is a rule very disagreeable number five is mansions of madness second edition you don't like the app i like the app i think the app is excellent what on earth is it is it like an insanity rule or it is not an insanity rule okay i get the because i was just saying incentive rules will be the thing okay you see this picture here okay yes i see the picture every time uh in the app it says to summon a monster the rules say you grab the monster you slide this little token inside of the base and you put the monster wherever the app tells you you don't like that whole monster that's what i do i take the cardboard token yeah and i put it on the board yeah and i throw the monster out of the way that's what it is you don't like miniatures is what i have i'm fairly certain at this point i have for all the monsters right just gotten rid of them i think i brought them here and i upgraded mine to paint it cool monsters i think i hate these monsters i hate these miniatures like i hate no other miniatures ever made they are they are really obnoxious i get it there that's a fantastic square right with a couple of tiny windows and a slab of cardboard you gotta slide in there and then look through these two windows but with a big chunk of plastic on top it's the worst thing and here's the great part those cardboard squares have artwork of the monster that you then hide in a piece of plastic right and i don't even think the minis are that good am i these are terrible they are just bad but fantasy fight i don't remember they made that overpriced line of painted miniatures no you were going somewhere else sure yeah yeah no just keep going trust me on this trust me on this just keep going over price you're like you're done stop that's all you do interrupt no they made it so back in the day when matches the madness and arkham heart were very popular this was before this was before the second edition okay right they came out with these pre-painted you could buy a pre-painted investigator like three or four bucks and i was like oh if you want to get all of them for the games yeah you're paying hundreds of dollars this was a precursor to kickstarter um so i bought all the monsters because they've sold them on discounts at certain points okay and i replaced them and then it's harder it's a harder choice for me because i'm like i have this cool painted miniature i get it yeah that i'm now hiding this tile right if it's just a gray i'm with you but if it's with the painted miniature i'm like wow it looks kind of cool though just hate them i get that it's a miniatures game and i now don't have the miniatures being foreboding on the board but speeds up the game it increases legibility it is so much better ignoring the monster minis i keep the people but the monsters i just let them go right i like the game way better now i really do i enjoy it way more now yep so that's my rule for mansions of madness second edition definitely not a rule but we're going to let it slide no that's not the one i picked on because that's a huge rule yes all right yeah that's not what i said israel stacy says he agrees with you that's right i love it all right my number five is a game that is not sold currently it's both out of print from both companies that made it and it's coliseum oh interesting and again if you've ever watched us play it live i play with my variant so you don't even notice telling the story of this no okay so it's it's in the trading phase of oh you're right god it's turn-based isn't it yeah so in coliseum you get a bunch of tiles and then you need completely different thousand ones you got and then you can trade with everybody but it's i go mike would you like to trade with me no z would you like to trade me no okay your turn might go z i just play open trading i'm like i'll give you these two for that one great and and we're all talking back and forth and yes there's a small disadvantage that if you're not a fast talker you might lose out tough luck it's so much better that way faster it cuts 30 minutes off the time frame that's true that's a huge deal it also feels more in spirit with the game quite honestly to play it that way yeah it's so weird that you roll and move and like wheel and deal yeah well this is closer i mean this came out quite a bit ago sure uh it's closer to catan remember catan had that trade thing i can only trade with the person whose turn it is that's true so there was that but sometimes there's a three-way trade i'm like i really want your yellow you're like i want white i'm like oh z is white it's a map z yeah it's a match rate i mean but it really does and if you do it one at a time it slows the game down it's crazy and again it really functionally doesn't have any reason other than like you said maybe if if you're rewarding for being the quickest right what i mean right right which one honestly wouldn't be a good reason to make that trade oh i heard you first no i mean you're going to want to look at where people are now you still are in the game and you're still like oh you're winning so maybe if it's between you and right and mike i'll pick mike because we know he's clearly not winning um yes what do you think mike hates the merge rule so much didn't you i had to do it uh that's a good choice i 100 yeah and now i'm finished with my number five and we're moving on to number four now go nowhere and that's why i got ready chris oh we're back go ahead my number four is what's happening today well it's you know supposed to be an annoying list my number four is from a race game that we talk about quite a bit here on the channel this is jamaica all right um game i like quite a bit but there's one rule that just bothers me and i think it's mostly because this is again a pretty much a family weight game right this to me this particular rule feels ultra gamery and i don't feel like the rule i'm thinking of i like that rule which one okay every time you fill a hole it has to be with something different it's not that one okay that rule is fine i actually like that rule too so it might be that going backwards thing which is which is a little wonky yeah it's the paying for the space and then you have to back up that might get you into combat it's just it doesn't believe they are changing those in the new printing there's something being changed with that rule there you go that means i don't know what the new rule is because i haven't seen a rule book in english right okay and i know they're reprinting and i believe the only thing the only thing changing is some sort of paying for a space and moving backwards yeah that that rule just always felt incongruous it just didn't feel like the other rules in the game which were so straightforward it's the only thing when i teach that game and i teach that game a decent amount that i always have to explain and explain and explain right when you stop you pay right and you stay there if you cannot pay everything you pay as much as you can and then move backwards until you get to a place that you can pay and pay and stay there right okay so if i go through another place i can pay partially do i pay that no you just pay partially the first place right and then you keep going to you can't pay the whole thing it's yeah yeah and it might just say you can't pay it so move back three or something something i mean there's because you can be sneaky you can actually end up at places you know you can't pay go around the inside of an island right to get to be able to pay and then come back in on the outside and pick up treasure get that cove right because go backwards those don't have a cost i get it that you can pull off tricky stuff like that but generally it's just annoying i agree the rules are are a little clunky right right right so uh again this is a game i like but i don't like that rule i'm excited that they're actually i hope it turns into i don't know what the new one is i don't know if it fixes necessarily that right i know they are changing something there in that area of the game all right maybe it's something as simple as if you cannot pay the whole thing don't pay anything like i really don't know what they're changing right but they're they're that's the only thing being targeted and the rule book of course was and then he will be left out because he's already done one of them that's true give us another annoying component component no how about a an annoying rule instead okay i'm good with that number four where are we at number four there we go my number four is another big epic game called zombicide black plague i know what this is you might what is it what do you think it's a splitting role 100 yeah it's got to be splitting rule right but you said you said black plague that's just because this is the version of the game you like this is the one i have known whatever whenever a group of zombies can reach your figure that they are moving towards by two equidistant paths you will split them as evenly as you can if there's anything left that one splits itself into two of the same figure and they each take a path if it happens again here it again will happen that figure will once again split if there's two paths to there and it is the most like it's a game that attempts to be thematic right and it is the least thematic answer to a problem i've who cares yeah like if there is a an uneven number right pick one pick a path right it's crazy they seem to keep reiterating on these like clearly dumb annoying things like if you shoot into a space the original one if you shoot into a space you have to hit your friend first first yeah huh what okay we're gonna get rid of that rule that's right then they got rid of that one and then this one zombies all hold people hostage you'll never get me you're never gonna be brains and they uh yeah so they got rid of it but i really i really don't like this rule it was i actually have a decent amount of house rules for my own copy of this and this is one of them for sure yeah i like pick where they go or i roll a die or something just you know come on it's don't it is it doesn't make any sense so that one's out zombicide black plague no splitty dumminess nana my number four is the first one i wrote down oh because it's the longest house rule that i've made and whenever we make these lists everyone always mentions it because i don't actually know anybody who doesn't play with this house rule okay and that's carcassonne i don't play with it you don't yeah what is the rule the rule is you draw at the beginning of your turn and then play and the your change is you draw deanna your turn doesn't everyone play that you don't you play draw at the beginning yeah slows the game down way too much i don't like carcassonne to be slow i don't play it that way because i don't play carcass on whatever i don't like i love carter zone and i i actually draw you draw the towel at the middle of your turn just so that the beginning is extra slow that's right i expect you to think where tiles might go despite whatever you draw whatever is talking about you draw the tile at the end of your turn it just makes so much sense the original rules were kind of like hey everyone helps you decide where it goes and which does happen to some degree because there's always a point where i'm playing with someone i'm going you only have these two spots i'm usually saying that because they are still looking like i'd like to point out these are where you can play that tile it sounds like we play with different people when i play carcassonne i am usually teaching someone who is for whom carcassonne is not a run-of-the-mill game right so i absolutely do have them draw at the beginning of the turn and i absolutely expect them to be watching me on their turn instead of looking at their tile i you better watch me play that's right and see what a master tactician does if you want to get better forget it um i do i actually do follow the rules side note i often i would say half the time i even play with the draw three tiles and play one of them i thought that might be what you were going to say but but i that that actually then does the reverse and slows the game down again yeah it does uh because you've got more but that draw at the end of your turn i'm still mind-boggling but that's not part of the game almost i will take this rule and put this with almost any game where there's a lot of games where it'll be like draw the card at the beginning of your turn and then play and i'm thinking have the person draw at the end of their turn so they can think about their turn you say so that people can watch you no they're on their phone they're on their phone i'm sorry not a miles i remove the phone no i'm sorry i feel very strongly about it this way draw at the end of your turn carcassonne [Music] so we'll use your car to move the body got oh oh uh okay so my number three is a game that um probably will not be on z's list because he does not like it you don't know that but uh my number three comes from pandemic uh any idea of what the rule is for pandemic the game is pandemic yes is it only everyone watching hands is the only thing it's so stupid it's so stupid in no only if you play the simplest version in the book it says you're supposed to keep your car you must keep your cards hidden however you can tell everybody what you have you don't play with that what's the point this is the same as his castle panic you know alpha gaming is the point big time oh my gosh i don't know to me this is a 100 i play with this rule you don't play with open hands i do not play with open hands unless i know the people playing oh man and i know they're not alpha gamers oh my gosh have i had some bad games of uh a pandemic with open hands really like terrible games and i think it's happened at this point to me at conventions because people sometimes consider me like me like the pandemic guy right right right so they need or they for some reason think that i'll be maybe impressed if they like flex their pandemic muscles sure and so where is the pandemic muscle the pandemic muscle it's right here brother so my brother yeah i've seen so i've seen some folks sure take over pandemic absolutely but again just to show off how well they can do it but but we're but for the purposes of this list i think this is a stupid rule it's annoying because again this gets to that larger issue of alpha gaming is this a game problem or is this a player problem maybe you're changing the game to help alpha gamers no i'm changing don't play without the gamers i'll change the rule and then i'm changing if if you can tell this per if you can tell z i've got karachi in my hand how is that different than having karachi sitting right there on the table because you might not tell me why wouldn't i tell you we're both trying to win this game you might just not remember to tell me i'm saying it it simulates me not knowing everything you're thinking about at any given moment i i guess i just i fundamentally don't understand this idea of i have these cards in my hand i can tell you specifically these are and it's not like they're cards that have a ton of text you're basically saying i've got that i do it with people i don't know right usually because it helps that whole like i don't know what to do can anybody help me get over here mm-hmm hey kawhi you you sort of have people converse about what's happening if i and i don't do this hopefully but you know if i look around the table i'm like you have over there two extra actions here's what i think i should do i'm gonna go here here you can play that and then i can go an extra one and cure there right that good i'm gonna do that because i've played this game 150 times so i'm gonna do that right and you're gonna watch me do it and that is curved a little bit if i require you to tell me you have it i i guess i just again i think this is a a people versus game probably i get it i'm a big proponent of alpha gaming is not a games problem right you know i am yeah yeah but i think that if you're also then like baiting the alpha gamer by putting cookie crush both ways in this argument someone's you know they're they have a predilection is that the election yeah towards alpha gaming but they shouldn't be playing this game then you should not also they'll be like gosh i'm such a lost little lamb i do know that he has had bad experiences because he tells me about it i mean there's that guy we need the car for anyway i just i don't know when i read a rule like this in a rule book and i'm just like this fundamentally makes zero sense i get that you know what i mean so anyway there we go that's my number i'm curious i'm curious what people are they're agreeing with both of you no then i will not have it my number three is the first one i thought up thought of i wonder if you knew i thought of this one because you gave me like an annoying look when i said like okay well i've got one i gotta figure out the other nine i'm waiting to hear it but it's your number three it's not your number one it's not because it's an easy rule to just ignore okay it's that kind of thing like you were just talking about this is my version of what you were just saying okay days wonder no okay this is a game called witch of salem oh same okay same right cooperative would mention this but i i i don't mention it because this rule is so bad it made me dislike the game and now i might have to go back it's well it's not kind of you can very very easily ignore though right okay yeah but it actually made me just like the game we're all cooperating to stop cthulhu yadda yadda right there's moments yadda yadda is the worst of the yeah there's moments in which you will appear at a location on the board you flip over town look at him put it back and you find out if there's a gate there you need to close or if it's a brick wall right and you cannot tell other players so you're like [Laughter] hello and so somebody else might have the things needed to close that gate but they cannot ask you right hey steve can i go close that gate she'll be like well you're like i said yes all right it's the dumbest rule with these people running around town and i guess when you run by someone like hey should i go that way like i guess he can't tell me i i actually dislike the game because of that rule yeah it's so stupid here's the funny thing when you go to look at a gate you can flip it face up on the table just leave it there everyone can see it if it's there or not and the game is still difficult it's not like it's a difficulty curving kind of thing you'll lose all the time still so i just don't get why that rule is there it's one of the gamiest rules right i don't know what they were trying to simulate i don't because people do speak in this universe um like what did you say yeah it's just you must learn for yourself yeah exactly um witch of salem easily uh thankfully an easily ignored rule and i really do like the game but i just i just don't teach it like tom said just don't talk about it don't teach and when you go look flip it done this is a don't ask don't tell rule my number three is that pretty much crossover with z um okay and you just set it for your number four you said zombie black plague yeah i'm saying zombie sigh but it's whichever there's two rules and you said the one the splitting dumb but the one that annoyed me and they did fix this and zombies right uh my word this whole shooting into an area it's dumb and you are if you shoot i i would understand things like hey z struggle with a zombie if i shoot into that space i might hit z right but no the rule was you will hit z correct no matter what i shoot straight up not yes so stupid it's a total weird rule just make it that you can't shoot in there right right no it's like if you shoot you have to hit your friend first meat shield rule yeah it's just dumb by by zombies not like a smart terrorist no no no yeah you know no that's a good one yeah they get rid of that very quickly they did and like you know pretty much whatever was after the original zombicide which might have been black played because blackpix got some years on it now pretty much got rid of it it was quick yeah they made several expansions of zombies first okay that's true that's true you're right you just wonder how you know obviously they went through a lot of play testing how did this not just come up i'm telling you this was the merge of its day yes well no but when we brought this up people defended it all over the place i remember that that's that's why that's why this was the merge of its day yeah yeah absolutely like most threads in the original zombie side are about like that's very true guys what do you do with the shooting into a space rule that's a thing um this has bothered me in most games though back when i play warhammer 40k there's there's shooting and then there's hand-hand combat right and there was the rule and the version i played i don't know where it is now you could not shoot people in hand-hand combat okay fine because you might hit your own people or whatever so what they would do is someone would get a really powerful guy who's really good at hand-to-hand he'd run into a squad of your guys kill them all get a free rush into another squad guys kill them all get afraid and i was like after a certain point i'd be like you know what forget our guys i'm shooting them that's right you know yeah we'll lose a guy or two but come on now the army to the swim tank yeah so i that sort of thing always bugs me yeah yes i realize shooting your own people is a thing right yeah sure but but there's obviously when it's cracked up like you will shoot the game you're going to hit your your teammates so weird yeah it really is odd [Music] i'm giving it a one okay so my number two is um is it a rule isn't it a rule you're going to have to determine this oh it's it's um it's an ice cream flavor it is it's it's a great old one called yadda yadda this is coming from um lords of water deep and so on and so on any idea does that do the mandatory question it is the mandatory question yeah 100 i don't remember this what is it the mandatory question it's that little stupid question give someone i can just spend like two people and get two points but it's so annoying all it does is like yeah they're building up towards this great quest you know this 20-point quest it's like oh here you go deal with this stupid little you know sweep the dungeon floor quest you got to deal with right that's my story okay yeah it's just it's just annoying i don't think anyone loves expansion thing or no no it's in the original game i don't hate them as much as mike does but i also never play them unless someone's winning by a mile then i might go okay i'll play it yeah it's essentially a take that card that's all it is and it's again certain rules annoy me when they feel incongruous from the game and that this is another one of those where it just feels like it doesn't fit right right everything else you're doing makes sense you know you're playing a particular kind of game it has those kind of familiar things i'm building buildings i'm sending out my adventurers on these quests take that i just it just doesn't fit right it doesn't fit and it's such a little thing and it's so easy to just this is one of the things i i will sometimes have called if it's with people i know and they are like yeah i don't like these quests we just take them out like if i'm playing with my wife we just take them out there's no we neither one of us even if we get them we're never going to play him on the other person sure right uh so i don't know that slows somebody down i guess i guess a chair to that [Laughter] yeah i see people saying there's no way to pull back i get that there might be some you know that there's might be some mechanical reasons but i just wish there was a better way to deal with that then i wish there was a better way to deal with a runaway leader than these little piddly mandatory quests that they do give you points you gave you a boy [Music] yeah they're just obnoxious they're obnoxious and annoying it's the sound of the cultists for yadda yadda yeah and they just keep going [Music] that's my number two i just if it was up to me i would just have to take him out of the game completely all right my number two is another one i thought of uh very soon and it said this is what you were just trying to him that on my last one from days of wonder shadows over camelot and the rule is you cannot tell someone what cards are in your hand you cannot tell them the numbers you're holding the card your number between one and five that's it right but you can hint and what you're holding in your hand here's the thing okay the cards go between one and five and you can say things like i have a very high card i have a kind of like a middle car higher than average card higher than average but not too high really they go between one and five i got it right you know it's just it it's so dumb because you either can't say anything and that's what i think it should be by the way or you just tell me what you're holding because i can figure it out yeah the game is easy it's the most like it's the goofiest like roundabout way to tell someone something without saying something right it makes me think of that whole meme on on twitter it's like tell me you're a millennial without telling me you're right or show me your this without saying it this is like you know tell me you can count to five without counting to five right come on yeah this is dumb this is dumb i really don't like this rule and um unfortunately this is not there's not a great way to actually get rid of this one yeah you kind of have to go all or nothing you're gonna have to do it yeah right because you do i usually go the other way i i let people be super obvious and then we just kind of roll around you laugh at the mechanism right right i mean like at the room i can really help you yeah yeah yeah so anyway shadows over camelot i wish there was a better way to deal with that one but there really isn't so that's my number two my number two is another sort of crossover with z i just picked a different game okay so my game is marvel legendary ah and this is the same thing as castle panic i i just when we fir i remember there are some games i remember i remember most games i played but i remember distinctly me and eric went over and they taught us the game for the very first time and they were like oh and there's gonna be one winner and i was like oh okay that sounds interesting you know back then i wasn't as violently anti semi co-op so i assumed back then it could still work i was a naive fool and we sat down and we're talking co-op i'm like so oh the person who kills the most monsters wins or i mean who defeats the most villains wins it's like well but we all win and the guy's like yeah but that person really wins right but we all won yes but that person wins like they didn't match and then it's worse because i had friends uh matt hosey and someone else they went to origins several years ago and decided to enter a marvel legendary tournament that's just terrible where someone wins but it's a in co-op games so you're like uh okay i can help you i shouldn't i won't i don't that breaks cooperation you play you win the game but the guy who got the most points goes to the next round wow i at some point you're like i'm not going to win so guess what no one is yeah at some point i'm like i'm hoarding all the kansas that's correct um i don't care about the zombies yeah oh yeah i ah i really really hate that rule i agree yeah [Music] all right well my number one is a direct crossover with tom and a somewhat crossover with z and it shows how much i agree with what you just said because my number one is marvel legendary absolutely this was the first thing i thought of when you when you brought up this list i'm like okay well this is the one that i know i'm gonna put on there and then i have to work for the other nine uh this is just so obvious and i don't even know that i have as much of an issue with the concept of semi-cooperative games but this is really just a co-op i mean this is a cooperative game they tried to mess with there's a couple characters in the game that you give wounds other people there was a they tried to lean into that i think what the villain said they tried to lean into it and everyone's like shut up yeah no part of that yeah the game is a cooperative game you're superheroes you're fighting against enemies it's a cooperative game right the whole concept i don't need to belabor the point you covered it very well i just think this is a ridiculous ridiculous rule it was the first thing that came to my mind when we were covering it i really really again though this is also of all the rules of the list it's the easiest you could even not tell people right unless they got done that what's this tiny number on the card you're like ah it's for some stupid variant no one plays right yeah i don't even think about it i just play it as a co-op every time right all right my number one is a little bit more of an esoteric pick and it's something that certainly does not happen in every game in fact it's a rule a player has to choose to do but when they choose to do this in a game it grinds the whole game to an absolute halt for the next for the next five minutes you're like oh i'm gonna go get a i'm gonna go get a coffee because this is factory fun okay uh i don't know factory fun one of the rules you are allowed to take is restructure you guys know that oh yes yes yes i do remember this you can restructure your machines oh my gosh that means you can take that that you're looking up there on the screen and say i just drafted a new one and i can't fit it anywhere and you can do one of two things with it you can throw it away or you can restructure this by pulling up piping pulling up the machines re-piping in different directions oh that's awful and trying to fit in the new one here's the problem usually eight times out of ten that person realizes hmm they still can't get it in there right either i still can't can't do it or oh i'm spending about 27 points just to make 10. okay i'm not going to do it i want to go back so you need to put it all back where it was could you do this every turn theoretically you could do this every turn if you want to i think yeah most people don't do it i will certainly discourage you from doing this uh the game is only gonna do it if we ever played it again i'm doing it for sure the game is only like eight or ten rounds so you know you don't normally run into that problem but you could do this normally it happens near the end of the game if it's gonna happen at all and i quit can you do it in the sequel the sequel forbids you from doing it to more than like one or two pieces got it okay they they they said in the set in the second one there's like you can change two machines or something something like that there's a rule that fixes it in the second one factory funner they also there's a few things that are clear reiterations of things that they noticed were problems but that one being allowed to restructure and then invariably having to go uh i want to go back i want to undo this all i have to remember where it all went no i'm out is a nightmare i got to tell you knowing that rule makes me i would i would avoid this game because you will not need to worry about it though normally you don't need to worry about it you take the machine and you go i cannot restructure this for less than the six points this gives me because every time you add a pipe that's a point you're paying i can't do it so i will throw away the machine and you're done and we move on to the next round you don't try to like pick it all up off the ground of the factory floor and put it all back down everyone else is sitting there waiting for you to do this for minutes at a time yeah that sounds terrible it's the worst um so that's my number one that's the one that i was making the list i'm like i that doesn't happen all the time but when it happens boy i hate myself yeah so i wrote that you know that's my number one i would want no part my number one is anticlimactic because it is a crossover with z and this one is easily my number one way most annoying rules shadows it is shadows yeah but i also when i was thinking i was like just in every game yes look i don't mind if there's no communication like the mind right although even the mind has the problem where they're like in meta what exactly can you how much information can you give can you snarl frown whatever um things like the crew are very specific you have limited but you put the card down put the token here that's exactly what you can do yes i'm great with that limit it but you tell me what i can and cannot say in fact games like kanabi yes they give you very specific words you can't say this right but it's games like shadows and i love the game but again it's that whole i wonder if i can help you yeah okay then you can't because you have a one right limited communication is so hard to pull off and it gets back to kind of one of your pet peeves in gaming in general is wishy-washy rules if you're going to tell people they're limited in something you have to be very specific about what they're limited to can and cannot do unless it's a party game or something right right right you gotta you know put any party games on our list really right no whatever yeah but those are a huge i have a huge problem with a lot of limited communication games for that reason yeah because that line isn't really drawn in the sand there's too much interpretation for me i don't like that the crew is a good example though i think of where it's done well that's true right because you can exactly say right it's here or not and then you're not allowed to say anything else right and that works and but the mind is the big argument in the mind because i'll say can i pull my cards back and just or just put my hands my card like this right and that's i'm not playing for a while right because i have high numbers but people will say you cannot do that you cannot communicate at all you can't count your heads out at the same time i'm like well what can i do just tell me give me some ideas right it's even when like in a game it will say i like trading games but when they say for example you could trade anything for anything list what i can trade right yeah tell me do it because can i can i you know there might be something wrong with my great victory can i give you my victory points you didn't say i couldn't do that right yeah you're right you need to you need to lay it out there for him well those are our most annoying rules in games that we do enjoy before we pop out here folks do you have any that we missed or that bother you we'll quickly mention them i saw several people i put up a poll on this several people mentioned the farmers and carcassonne but i love the farmers in carcassonne i think i think teaching them is a pain right i think that's that's the other thing where it's kind of incongruous it's a very if you take farmers out though then the game loses a lot of its they've gone through like three versions of the rules right for farmers yes that doesn't help farmer score uh farmer score no no no farms score right three points no four points no back to three they keep changing them that's the problem yeah what do we got yeah what else do we have here oh let's see here winter the trader can mess with you and even if you kill a trader they can come back and yeah well dead of winter i just hate most rules because it's semi-co-op right right i don't mind i i still have some affection for uh dead of winner even though i understand so yeah some people complain about the first round of jamaica because there's like everywhere everyone goes they all land on each other and there's like a round of fighting sure early fighting in jamaica yeah i i wish it would uh not happen for the first couple rounds well you could again that good house roll that you could rule that out i try not to do it like mike said i try to avoid house rules right doors and dwellings of outer valley i'm not sure what the doors are the doors of the adventure cars the first car that's that's flipped up for each color that's in the game is a door card oh i see ice and i guess maybe if you maybe the issue that that ben said scott there has is the idea that when you go there you take a card you can buy another card or you can put one to the bottom of the deck and so maybe if you were putting door cards to the bottom because they're the easiest ones to get oh i didn't think about that one which adventure games you have to restart upon death yeah you're right like bloodborne just said that and that's a rule that i'm like oh no we died we're going back to the beginning of this mission we're not restarting the whole game right right right right that's good um the rocks in gloomhaven ride already too soon it's a year and a half too soon uh let's see here galaxy trucker with only one hand but is there a standard auction power we change it to blind auction it's so much better no blind auction power grip would totally change the game the math is so tight and power credit would be hard to do that yeah uh downforce letting you bet on yourself that's interesting i've i've i'm i've thought about that next game i play i'm going to try that you can't bet on yourself and you shouldn't try to win it might change the game it will change the game you can't do worse that makes no sense you have to be a lot too better at yourself i would try to actively do worse tom right or like i would try to do well the first half to get your sucker bet right and try to lose at the end sure but it still makes it a game it makes it a weird game which the closer i get to the um the closer i get to the race to the end i like step on the brakes i'm trying time stories oh time stories is huge yeah scythe rhythm walk i can't think about the side brother walk cause i think it's a good rule i agree it's just thematically makes no sense it makes no systematic it's there for a mechanic i can cross the river but only if there's mountains on the other side only i considered putting that because obviously i like the game very much but uh and it is annoying so it's it's a that's a good choice it's it's a tough thing to to teach it is um right to the point where sometimes i want to pick riverwalk just so i can't stop forgetting which ones i can go into right yeah that's a special ability that is a great there's a good one uh what else we got a lot of you are just saying weird stuff um the photosynthesis letting someone sit in the middle spot for the entire game no one would do that what kind of a jerk would do that [Laughter] that is super annoying building your your three level tree and just sitting there in the middle yeah that sucks yeah okay i don't remember it that well monopoly rolling doubles gives it another turn that is always a weird thing about that game right if you like rolled and got bad and paid someone and then got another turn but then again the game came out in you know the early 1900s we're fine that's true that is true all right well mention stuff in the comments later on when we're done um and thumb up things that you agree with right and then that stuff will float to the top and we'll see rules that people got again we didn't pick a lot of games that we hate because no no no right you got to pick little things we deal with in fun games we will play someday we'll do that we'll do a top 10 games i hate because of one rule right my number one factory fun i won't play that game you would i think like that i might i might like it i hate that rule though we'll play this i got rid of factory fun and kept us thinking about it okay all right folks we'll be back tomorrow morning live gameplay at 10 a.m so come and join us live there there will be a contest and you'll be able to jump on board there other than that we're done for now we have more videos coming up today check them out i'm tom vassell z garcia i'm mike d'alessio have fun interrupting yada yada [Music] you

Channel: The Dice Tower

Views: 123,683

Keywords: board game, board, game, dice, card game, cards, catan, monopoly, tower, dice tower, vasel, review, tom vasel, vassel, settlers, gaming, GeekUsername: TomVasel, board game review, boardgame, uno, ticket to ride, apples to apples, educational games, educational, top 10, juegosdemesa, Brettspiele, ボードゲーム, brädspel, jeuxdesociété, משחקילוח, 보드게임, deskováhra, graplanszowa, bordspel, 棋盘游戏, gioco da tavolo, desková hra, gra planszowa, настольная игра, trò chơi trên bàn cờ, jogo de tabuleiro, لعبة اللوحة

Id: 5VXY4oqyTDg

Length: 86min 19sec (5179 seconds)

Published: Thu Aug 12 2021