Top 10 Enemies of Gaming (featuring Rodney Smith)

[Music] hey everybody I'm Tom Bassel i'm rodney smith and we are here today to talk about the top 10 games I think we're all checking to see if our mics are on the top 10 enemies of gaming batteries if you never might receive Ronnie Smith before he runs his own YouTube channel called yes it's called watch it play where we play games we show you how their plates if you don't want to read that rule book just throw in the garbage we'll just show you how it works I have never done that that's a lie even I've watched Hrodna muck evens everybody seen right if you haven't seen watch it played with Rodney Smith you're not a real gamer Wow okay I didn't say that so one down Mac you didn't quote Rodney yeah thankfully this isn't live we can fix that right today we're talking about the top 10 enemies of gaming and I would be clear that this is for me at least partially tongue-in-cheek no very partially I have some actually very strong comments I'm not worried it's also not specific like number 10 is not Rodney Rodney Smith gaming or even or even like this website board it's more generic than that well I love it too this was a topic when I was gonna be coming here you said here's a list of possible subjects what would you something that jumps out to you and I saw that enemies it gave me that looks really cool if I want to talk about that in fact I was like man I wish I'd thought of that as a topic just to talk about my own channel but I'm glad to be doing it with you guys but I think it's interesting to dig into these are our enemies of gaming things that maybe work against the Hobby or things that can be challenging in the Hobby then we get to talk about that a few minor a little silly though yes and we've done this before we have and I found I made it I went to look at my own list I was like huh a lot of crossover I still have the same beliefs a couple I have a couple of crossovers and some new concepts that I've discovered are a little more relevant to where we are now than they were whenever they'd like to point out some minor little silly but I'm only looking forward to see what you guys company cause like I've known forward to hearing what you've got because you're coming at it from a complete outsider's perspective we've done it before right and I have it as a shorthand we kind of know what we mean you don't really so I'm curious since number 10 Americans would be great but where you go from there is that's your number ten nine Floridians eight is Miami seven whole step six the dice tower 5 Z Garcia okay I don't like it that's a methodology right there it gets smaller well here we go let's find out who these enemies are number gen Americans Americans America it's not Americans I'm sure well it sort of is actually a roundabout way this is I don't know there's anything that makes me sadder then when I get a comment on one of my videos so someone who says this game looks so awesome I'd love to be able to play it I have nobody I could play this with finding gamers in this hobby can be a real challenge for people right you cannot play games unless you're a solo gamer you can't play them alone fun players wanted I did not see that graphic very good oh you don't like this guy I'd like this call Rodney hit the bottom she's very specific yeah but I mean that is I think it's one of the one of the enemies of gaming is trying to find gamers when I moved to Princeton we're down a little island east coast of Canada I didn't know anyone there I didn't know where the gamers were how was anything to be a part of this hobby in any kind of meaningful way die am I gonna play with it you know and I think that's a common problem people have they're not always in places where there's lots of people who want to play games or that they can go to now it's getting better I think there's lots more cafes or more gaming and the internet helps the internet helps to find people as well but one of the challenges of being in this hobby is you kind of need to find people like video games you can just hop on and you'll you just have everyone ready as a potential person to play with you kind of is a physicality to board games needs you nearby so that's true when I play hearthstone I can play just press a button that gives me enough enemies tons of opponents right it's like a computer you guys have gaming groups at you I have game groups I have access to but our people don't group and I can find people my family to play games but there are still those times I'm like I'm in the mood to play a game there's no one at that point I'm yeah right yes no that's good all right sad want to start Thanks yeah I know laughter is your number 10 I don't want any laughter Mike gave me what No all right so the way I organize this is my ten through six so the top half is about publisher issues ok shoes I have with publishers five through one our personal issues right they should have with people okay with the humans and I actually named Susie how you got it and they are and I broke them up in that in that way but I really do think that even though I just wanted to group them these five in these five I do think publisher issues are less problematic as you can easily ignore them as a gamer if you have an issue with what this publisher does or what that publisher does you can ignore that publisher if you want to we're still in that human being is right if you're in a name group and there's someone who breaks one of these rules that's that's a problem there there are the table with you you know what I meant so there you go my number ten is game bloat hmm games that give you not enough not a great amount even but simply too much to the point that they no longer have the time and to play test everything they no longer have the time to make sure what you're getting makes the Mattocks ends still and whatever story they're telling you that's what I mean by bold I'm not saying Ozu love tiny games so of course you would say that no I don't care if your game is twenty hours of play time that you planned on putting out and play tested and has a through-line I'm talking about that game you kick-started and after you kick-started it you realized oh this is more popular than I thought I guess we better add some stuff and we have a couple of months to play test them before we need to go print that's what I'm talking about and there are publishers who do that and you can tell as a gamer right sort of feels like things are getting tacked on they weren't treated with the same maybe loving care as the original core of the game and sudden you've got this extra stuff it's we're gonna slay they just don't have the time right and so it's this idea of like more more more oh this game promised to 20 hours this one has 400 unique miniatures twelve years of content don't get excited this was on my short list I call this kitchen sink yeah you know everything but the kitchen sink yeah but now we're getting the kitchen sink in with it that's the thing like I think we're getting everything a specific example I'm not picking on this company but it just reminded me of this as bezier games when I did the suburbia Ryan you've got 25 player colors you don't need 25 player colors right okay that's fine I mean you you can't get a lot of player cards but then when you open a box like haha so much stuff and it's not really necessary to the game a hundred percent right you don't need it at least that one doesn't require plate testing it's just more colors but y-you really I mean that player can't settle for a different shade of green that's okay I only play forest green you know that's what I'm talking about this is just now we're getting to that point that it's content for the sake of content and honestly it's we're guys I think about it where it becomes an enemy of gaming is it kind of gets in the way of the gaming because I'm going to play this game but there's all this stuff not really organizing you have to do again you gotta get it a set up you got almost stuff it maybe he's a little bit superfluous and doesn't really need it it sure in the way a little bit right and it starts to switch from I'm happy and proud of the games I own to there's so much in these games that I never even see that I start to become a burden to by just the thought of it being as I oh yeah you know it's like you still feel guilty that you own again you haven't seen 80 percent of because there's a new one you know and I haven't seen most of this so it becomes a burden on you you buy a game it you don't really like that much but you're like oh and I wasted all this content so anyway that's my number 10 below vote all right my number 10 I probably don't have to deal with any more you are out of this era hmm yesterday was their marbles event my son turned six my number 10 is toddlers no this is the truth and this happens right people like first of all you could say toddler slash babies right they'll be like hey first of all I love the coming game got to find a babysitter you want to come my awesome game right but then I found I had seven kids I have six daughters and I finally had a son I found that he destroys games for a couple reasons one pure Mouse and pleasure mix somehow and also because he thought that's how they're supposed to be played and it's a little frustrating and it's like a pure enemy of gaming it's like King Kong well I guess that's more Godzilla just smashing sure less babies is what you're saying let's have less babies that's not even remotely but get what I'm saying and it's more of a silly entry right but I noticed it because in the past couple years I've lost more games physically than I've ever lost before well straight up my son's fault not even apologize I said what name names Jim vassal when we had kids you're right past that stage now but yeah it was an enemy to everything yeah but you're right from raising kids then you're approaching part two I am which I'm gonna get to soon to my daughter be like I'm gonna bring over two kids of life and I say this with a smile and I can say this probably more than anything else because I do love kids it's very clear I have got two kids and my grandkids come over but I have noticed you know in it to me the one thing that irks me and if is you and you play me I'm sorry but it irks me when someone says I'm going my kids at my lap don't worry it will be fine and then they're going and I'm like and they're like look I'm gonna go to play with a few of these pieces and I'm thinking I got toys you know they can play with those toys this is not I may never see those pieces again yeah I can deal with that you never add someone's in their lab into them holding the cards with his mouth that's a problem for me that's a big problem I don't put it on my list cuz I don't have kids I'm not gonna invite you over to myself in that situation I know what I mean but I have zero tolerance for that I'm sorry no don't I'll talk about that later because I'm kind of actually no it didn't make the list did it you knew it upset you too much it's basically like it's not on the list right yeah like players that are not respectful of someone else's property be it a game or my table putting a couple of whatever it may be yeah that falls under that category for me let's just be respectful of someone else's property and space it's always amazed me like that people do like when I go to someone else's house with my kids I'm like you wouldn't anything you're gonna die you know something on that effect like we're going to someone else's house and I I let you know I've seen you run across our couch in your shoes you burn our do it at someone else's house and I'll people visit my house who clearly did not have that conversation with their kids right and it boggles my mind sometime like I thought like a kid just going to fridge you get something out you're like and that's what the challenge because an adult maybe you should say something to your child hear an adult you can kind of address directly but that toddler who's sitting in the lap doing and it's like how do I get after the game your child right because you'll be like you shouldn't do that I'm telling you this because your parent isn't I said this was light-hearted alright number 9 I know on the other side of this we're going with better I think alright mine is an American very general maybe philosophical thing expectations or as I would put it looking for the perfect experience now obviously I mean expectations are kind of the enemy to everything a lot of ways sure you set expectations at a certain level now everything's being measured against that and then your satisfaction is gonna be affected by that the the best anecdote I have for it is I remember going to I think it was borage ins one year and I was having trouble finding something I wanted to play and people would invite me to a game I'd be like ah that game looks like it's too complicated too long or this game is that's not what I'm looking for how many people do you have of five players of sixes I know this games anything - I just I was always finding something that I wasn't quite who's gonna turn me off a little bit so I didn't play a lot that day when I got back to the room and Jimmy kg for the Sirica ball he comes in he's he's smile anything how did you how's your day so I played a bunch of games it how'd you find stuff to play because I just played any was put in front of me I just played whatever came in front for my team and I thought I don't I don't do that I'm much pickier than that and it made me think I wonder where to be like just to put down some of those walls and so those expectations and just go with the flow and just kind of play and I have to say I started trying to do that the future conventions and it made a big difference you find yourself playing a lot of that bad games solo well it was actually good the reality was it wasn't nearly as bad all the little things that I was again it's the the problem is saying expectations so high sure you know I mean we're it's like oh this is not gonna be exactly the experience I want even if you found the exact perfect game to play and maybe the exact perfect people you want to play with you can still have a bad time the reality is I think you bring to that experience something you're either contributing to it in a good way or you're not right and I found like you know what if I come into this with a little bit more of a positive and open mind about the experience and what it could be and that worried about what it might not be end up enjoying myself more and I think people do end up chasing that kind of looking for that I need the right game the right number of people the right situation then I'm gonna have fun like I think we kind of make the fun happen a little bit or it's it's a responsibility of everyone at the table to help make that fun happen so I think sometimes chasing a look of that perfect experience which game on the Shelf which I gotta find the perfect game that can sometimes be a little bit of an enemy of actually getting to gaming and playing it's really was about my experience Jaime played games all day I didn't she's chasing this other experience I like that what a good STD that's deeper than the baby my number 9 [Laughter] my number 9 again this is about publishers my top 5 here ok bandwagon publishers is my number 9 okay what does this mean every publisher does this to a certain degree I'm sure like this is pod yeah so let's do that good right yeah rolling right was definitely the one that I choked down um rolling right is high so let's make a roll in right do we have a good rolling right no I don't care make fine a rolling right I need to explode right just not it's absolutely what must be happening I mean call it roll and right if you have to yeah yeah I mean not to pick up any product but um yeah that bandwagon mentality of that's what's happening jump on that yeah what's hot now make one of those bringing me two of them that's you know like you you will always be chasing after something that's hot these things take time by the time you hit the market it's possibly moved on your she's probably undercooked yeah you know you're rushing it out there right you're like always sort of chasing that thing that is like sand sort of falling through your fingers all the time that's I don't know I don't agree with that type of publishing mentality you know I understand sometimes things are too odd to ignore I completely understand that Ruhlman rides are hot whatever trick-taking games are hot let's put one out let's let's keep an open mind as to a trick-taking game we might whereas before we might turn them down let's see what's out there that's great but you can definitely tell some companies some publishers some projects are simply a chase the money jump on a bandwagon kind of project and that immediately turns me off because that you couldn't see through those cracks the gameplay is almost secondary to it's a rolling right that's all it really mattered we just need to get it rolling right under the deck building game this is a deck building game about building decks because deck building and data you are gonna build decks also there's some fantasy and something the deck building it's like okay so we've played those games what have you got what else have you got going on you know yeah that's how it just irks me that that mentality so nine bandwagon publishers stop it I spoke against toddlers women number ten let's jump to the pagers oh now that's not quite true but this is what I think of number nine also person level of schedules just schedules in general and see ropes actually scheduled yeah anyhow I I like you know it's funny cuz you when the kids grow out of being a toddler you're like great I now have someone I can play with right and someone who wants to spend time with me and I can talk to them like a human being instead of saying stop eating your socks or whatever and that's true and then they go into high school and suddenly they're like dad and you're like I do this at home i homeschool my kids and I still every morning I'm like what's going on and over like well at four o'clock I'm going to Sarah's house at six o'clock I got practice here and at eight o'clock this is happening and I'm like oh yeah how am I supposed to get anything done here but that's not I'm not just on my teenagers just schedules in general yeah and especially nowadays where we have legacy games and campaign games and you're like every Tuesday night we're gonna get together and play pandemic legacy like okay and I'm like um well I got this going on and then this is going on in schedules trying to get people together I'm just happy to have anybody at any given point I think legacy games many of those are campaign games what let the what killed them off for a gaming group wasn't that they weren't enjoying the game who's scheduling it regularity was hard to accomplish eight it's great you mentioned kids cuz I get that fair bit on my channel cuz I started the channel with my kids on the channel with me and people asked me now we're your kids how come they're on that on the show any word they're not like gaming or what's going on it's like my kids grew up my daughter like doesn't live at home anymore and Luke yes he still plays games but he's got like an active life you know so did you just hung out on each other porches and just chilled but the kids just they have so much going on and then I'll say sometimes I'll say something that effective you know what I know that you guys want to do this this weekend but I think you can skip this one event and it's like I murdered a baby in front of them they're like we have to go to this event like don't you want to skip out of this yeah or they like they'll join a team or be a practicing like you don't really want to learn to play that instrument or be on that team do you that's but it's not again it's not just kids it's adults I'd be like hey let's get together once a good night Tuesday ensue but like now or Tuesday I do this alright Wednesday round he's like nah can't do it pretty soon there's nothing this is not a fixable one okay some of these enemies you can fix them but again it's not scheduled it's a challenge compared to other hobbies like again with video games you don't really have to skip yeah I can play it 3:00 in the morning right games are different yeah and it's funny I mean we at our local game store they call the meetups diced our meetups I've told them not too many many times they just do it all right there are many dice tire meetups there are no dice tower people there I'll be like we're at a convention it's time they're like well that's what it fit on the schedule like well my schedule says otherwise have fun with the diced our me so then someone comes in to meet up where's dice to her not here no schedules nothing I can do about it I just got a rant a little bit I'm I'm looking forward to when a teenager is gone because then my schedules clear right right sure yeah yeah shut up okay sure [Music] well mine is so similar to your last one I'll make it quick because mine is one of the enemies of gaming is that it requires commitment there's a little bit broader but the same idea really comes down to that timing thing like one of the things I said is one of the commitments it requires is brain power like you've got to study a manual generally before you get to start playing again video game have to read a manual before you can start know they have a tutorial thing you just do it right you just jump right in and start playing books you have to read a book to learn how to read a book while you do but when you're young then what you know it you're good to go but games require this commitment sure investment of time into even before you get to play the game you gotta invest their scheduling that's one of the things they head into that category again right solo games relieve that a little bit you know but the game if you're looking for something more of a multiplayer experience schedule is an issue time is another issue there because I don't mean just within a schedule but it's very hard to pause the game for games a heart pause and other things I sort of put down and get away because you might need that table back that's truly a lot of hobby activies you can kind of pause a little bit easier and come back to later watching the movie you can pause it it's easy to come back to write lasting on that was just face that's it a commitment when you get into the hobby especially you start growing a collection it's a commitment of space that you're giving up to this thing which is a lot of things but board games unlike a blu-ray or something else or even a book the heart is like a pretty giant size you're committing to write as soon as you get into the hobby I mean what are we talk about all the time but couch shelves are using what do you know people talk with the storage of their games all the time because it's a it's a big part of this hobby so what are the enemies sometimes is the level of commitment that's required to this particular hobby yes memory true and so Gerdes is gonna be lack of commitment be more committed now when number eight is very simple I'm not gonna talk much about this one lack of player aids that's a good one I like n publishers if you're putting on a game and could use a player aid mmm-hmm what's going on where is it for crying out loud if your games for players what for poker game I can't tell you how annoying it is have to and we're passing that back important well just put out in the back of the rulebook which then Z's looking at it like I have a rule snake he's like I'm sorry look at the player winter yeah that's it just again if your if your game could use player AIDS put player it's in there if you're not sure I could use player AIDS it can use employer if there's a table you look in the rule book don't put in the rule book have a little thing of another one right have a four oh yeah it was not that much it's not that much commitment wheels alright my number eights a bit adjacent to what Z said first number nine your number nine you called it what no bandwagon podium wagon I called my number eight cash grabs okay so catch crabs are prompt for a couple reasons one the IP I want this intellectual property and a lot of companies just throw out a game with that property someone's excited about that property they play it the game isn't very good happily this is less of a problem an industry than it used to be there's a lot of decent game surprising number of IP based games that are doing there is but you can still go to the store and usually find a game based on something and it's not good the other cash grab was the other half was what you said and I just where someone else did it it made a lot of money let's all do it so it's the same thing it's again it's easy money and my that's one of the problems I have with and I'll be very specific on the role and write is it's very easy for a publisher to make it roll right you literally have a roll sheet yeah and you have a you know you got to make some sheets and throw in a few dice yeah and it's an easy thing to do it's also easy to go to a publisher a designer and say I don't care what the game is you get me I just want your name and there's clearly some games that I played where the designer had it sitting in their drawer and the designers like here's the game like we'll publish it I'm like you just wanted the money from that name yeah and I think that hurts our industry more than not more than anything else but it hurts our industry because someone will play these things there's at least eight place I hate my place well I thought yeah no Ezra because if that's your first game that's your first entry to the Hobby like it says what games are you know yeah that actually has hurt people in the past because ip's are gonna draw people in especially to lose right so yeah so cash grabs number seven my number seven is one that I would I would be surprised that this wasn't on your list but maybe not we'll see it is a fear of missing out for as I put in quotations of mine keeping up with the Joneses that kind of hunt for that next game over seven Robert guy sitting there this is got very specific modeling yes that fear of missing out and I'm sure many people have experienced it I have experienced it I see something I see a game looks interesting to me did you cut him and stick it in our studio segment and actually Michael Dilisio said let's just put Robert in the fomo segment up there but that was when he had green-screen himself interest does Robert have a real FOMO issue no he doesn't say him in a bat phone now I see it same okay yeah yeah so I think I think this is the thing that affects a lot people just might gets talked about yeah right and I think there's a mindset sometimes that gamers get into about I need to buy this game not because I even necessarily know very much about it but because I'm hearing the buzz about it and I am afraid about the future experience I'm going to miss out on yes I don't wanna miss out of the future experience I have to buy this game because this game is gonna provide fun for my friends and I like my friends I want have fun with them so I have my must buy this game it's like it's it's the thrill of the hunt it's a chase it's I would argue it's almost a little bit more like an addiction that it is like making a thoughtful purchase now here's the thing I am a hundred percent on board with anyone who wants to buy a games just because they just want to have them like if that's why you're spending that money cuz you just like to have games on your shelf that's fine if that's your thing but I think a lot people do buy games with the intention of playing them and having these experiences and they tell themselves that's why I'm buying this game but then the 50 unplayed games on your shelf are telling a different story right you know they're sort of saying no that's maybe not why you bought that game because you have these experiences that you never got to you're still not buying them it's like almost buying it's like an insurance policy on fun right I need to buy this okay I know that I could have you're buying the promissory note for my for fun later yeah and then you get that thing that you bought for the fun and then you have to go get that next thing because that's the next thing while you're having fun with the one thing that one's gonna bring this could pass you by yeah listen this is not something I say isn't like as a criticism of people really it's I don't know how you deal with this feeling because we don't wanna miss out on that next fun game and that's why I mean the reason why we bought game 10 after we hit nine years we've really enjoyed this because the first time we're so much fun of it it's what you finally want a tent experience like that right this is a difficult thing to solve I guess my solution to it is just try to consider look at your past history of buying and ask yourself are you getting from the games you're buying what need was you hoped you were if not then it might be time to maybe reevaluate or readjust but I think it's a it's an enemy of gaming because you're you're collecting rather than gaming if collecting is what you want and they're also I agree it drives some people crazy how people come up in a froth because they don't have a specific thing oh and it's like you'll be oh be okay you know your life is not less special because you can't find whatever this thing is a little unique expansion or that little thing and it's like there's like a craving in there that's right satiated in it it's tricky and at the end of the day you can't have every experience you can't read every book you want to read you can't for every game you want to play I just got that book from someone you saw it in the counter 1001 restaurants you need to go before you die books so ridiculous right I'm never gonna get to all those restaurants right or even a but if I took that seriously that'd be very problematic could you imagine that that is assuming you eat out every night and somehow have unlimited travel right that's more than three years right of traveling you're doing eating out every single night I have to be super rich willing to work out so no it's ridiculous right it's the same thing with games you you simply won't you know if you must be brutally honest with yourself consider that when you die there will be a game that comes out a week after right that you didn't get to play either and maybe you kick-started it that's myself oh I wasn't going that way you're never paid for it but you also didn't invoke the aside there's gonna be some really distraught widowers widows at some point getting Kickstarter games it's gonna be years afterward packet is always showing up with that person's name under think about that I don't know how you can fix that next I have a weirdly depressing thought but I like it that's a good mind exercise there will always be something you're not playing you know I think it's true it's brutal you've got like FOMO should be like the fun of missing out like recognizing I can't do everything it's ok to miss things it's alright because you know what's happening 3,000 word games are coming next year there'll be something else to change it's not yeah it's empower and every day that goes on the hobby has gotten so big that if you're watching this then you know let's say you're 10 right now you're never gonna be able to go back and play all the games right you know of enough time left in your life there's that many games already existing no no no no you can't do it you can't even play all the ones you would consider good you can't yeah you have to be it's actually made my life a lot easier we go back and forth sometimes in our top tens and I'll be like I can't believe I haven't played that game yet some of those games I've said that about I'm never gonna play and I'm actually okay with that it's okay it's got a lot of good games he has played he said they're really good time I think you'd like it and I still may never play it and I'm okay I'll find you that was my number seven Robert all right my number seven is a similar thing to my bandwagon publishers this is different I and I even find it a little more problematic bandwagon publishers you want to make a quick buck sure okay that's fine this is uninformed publishers and by that I mean that publisher typically a new publisher who is coming out with a game according to them it's a revolution in gaming yeah but it's also basically gone Sean clever it's oh if you're that lucky yeah it's like one for why have you played GaN Xiang clever no I've never heard of it yeah oh okay well have you heard of I don't know welcome to know what's that know so how are you a publisher of these kinds of games yeah you should inform yourself as to what it is you are doing and what else is out there in your realm this is always mind-boggling to me I'll run the people and I'll say you know the publish the game and they'll say something like or they're like Kickstarter no abort your geek is and I'm thinking well I get it the average person doesn't need to know what BoardGameGeek is sure but if you're gonna publish a game you should know it would seem like and that's the bottom that baseline I agree and and I think it's problematic I think it your games probably not gonna be that good you're probably gonna come across foolish cuz you're promising promising things your game doesn't deliver and you may be I'm not even doing it maliciously right because you don't know no you don't know you're like this game is amazing nothing's been done like this in 20 years because in their world nothing has been done that's right they've never played another game right there like they played risk and they're like this is risk but everybody has their own power yeah it's this is a revolution in gaming and then you go wow there are a lot of games like your game most of them probably better than yours because they came from people who stole well every boost oh they stole smartly that's a problem smart thieves a book from you you're going to steal steal smartly okay you can quote me on that that's my number seven that's a back in the box this is a smart stealing of another game Zhi Garcia kudos to you let me see few clever criminal you ever alright my number seven is again kind of on a personal level and I don't think it's a widespread problem but I see everyone's one I just called it finicky people I get it you want your games to be treated well and everyone has a different level so I thought about this a bit on the cruise as I watch people manhandle my game you don't take care of your games no I really do I do the component droppings up but I I care about I don't necessarily sleeve them all now I'm gonna start sleeping them but I'm watching other people but I'm not just talking about Finnick and how you do it but you the way you present it when people come to play games with you and you're like excuse me don't touch that rulebook excuse me take your glass of water table I mean and I get it you want the court and we talked about this through the babies and stuff sure but there's also a point where you can be so problematic to those around you and I've seen that not just an app but on how games are played and I have a weird house rule that I insist that we play and well not no one's ever heard of that or I'm I don't like this kind of game and so I'm gonna be finicky about this I don't know just these kind of people are not necessarily fun people to hang out with in general but they get so caught up the game is more important to them than the people around it becomes like the game becomes like a museum piece or something like are we playing this or we try to preserve this for like generations to come or something like and that can make people uncomfortable table cuz now they don't know how to behave like I'm not gonna wreck your game but am I allowed to be like a little casual about it like it yeah it can be or even I mean just like the specificity 's of the game someone might try to do something fun and it's like excuse me we're not we're not doing that right you know take this seriously [Music] this is a little bit opposite of a few things that may come up on my list but someone is maybe casually talking to someone else and it's like game you know pay attention yes that all look pretty I'll come back to this in a bit because I think you can go too far with that but you know some people are too casual with other people's property no no I agree with that right we're going all-in right I agree with that and that's why I'm being caution I understand that but I I've also seen people where they're so caught up in a very specific of how their game is treated how the game is played that they kind of chase people away no I get that I completely understand that however most of those people that you're bringing over and have to say that to if ever unfortunately those people are trained that the thing you're showing them we're playing or whatever is a cheap like really cheap because they can get monopoly for like $12 sure and be infinitely replaceable because it's been on the shelf since 1920 you know what I mean that's unfortunate that then they they are having a culture shock they're treating it like this is garbage yeah you know what I mean what's it matter like I could probably tear this in half and go buy you another one like down the street yeah come down and maybe that thing is really really hard to replace even if it's findable it's three times as expensive as they think it is yeah I forgot them it's neither sites fault there's a lack of comprehension of what they're sitting around yeah you know I really do think so difficult things where it's not necessarily someone's fault you know it's hard to put blame on somebody but those things still exist their time I think you're right that someone can create an environment where it's starting to feel uncomfortable playing because this person is so specific that's true again it's not just about this way the treating the game is also people who are finicky about the game itself it's being played um I'm trying not to spoil my future ones coming up I'll come back to the dimension this is wild wild [Music] all right well my number-6 maybes been sort of talked about previously as well III called this one half-baked games I'm talking here specifically about oh good good I'm hungry those look really good I'm talking about where there's maybe a lack of development so I'm not saying when someone plays a game it goes I didn't like that that wasn't my kind of fun they should have just made this different I'm talking about where it could be like art the art of the board it's beautiful it's attractive and really eye-catching but not at all functional it's getting in the way of the gameplay so the development that wasn't there they said we're a hire great artists great we're gonna have a good designer but we're not gonna doesn't develop how that's going to fit together and that can be a real enemy of gaming because now that game it looks so great looks so fun to play is getting in the way of itself in a way that's what's one thing it can be basic things like just editing typos you can come across and there's mistakes on the cards or things aren't printed properly or whatever that's another half big thing this is my own little personal pet peeve but inserts they don't hold that they go to the trouble of making an insert for the game and it doesn't actually hold the cards properly like I agree ran into this today the insert has two cards and I'm like I and there's a little finger slot that goes halfway down right I have to turn the whole box up sit down holding in some of the other pieces to drop those cards down right deck of cards in the plastic insert you put the deck in the top six cards are floating it's flushing it but then you realize that the indentation in the plastic is only halfway down the bond is gone another inch it's like this happens all the time I do not please someone I don't get it may someone explain to me why you make the insert for the Kurds the exact height of the cards you've got it's so much room yeah I know this is silly now but you're right it's so finicky people it speaks to the development process what's going on in there that those things aren't being basic things so I just want to know what's the thought process just go back to the player AIDS do yeah that's a player a type of thing to works like you know what this game we've made is really great but people keep having trouble with these 5 rules play rate would solve that boom but you have to play test and find those things you resolve them but happens unfortunately those things get found once it's published and then we find them we as in gamers as a community and then they're stuck with it at that point you kid it's not easy to patch a game right so and then you bought it as an early adopter because you're an idiot and then they publish it again in three months because FOMO and it's MIG and it's all been fixed but now you're stuck with one that is not as good as the one that's out now you're thinking that's ok it's the same game really I don't need it again but when you forget is they added two new cards yes you you need to buy it again yeah this is good luck we're getting out all right my number six is also a very simple one and again it's my last one that's besides specifically about publishers dishonest player counts on the boxes that's true got that really good morning it won if your game I'll give this scenario we're talking about about new new gamers right people discovering games possibly discovering a hobby through your game right if someone discovers a fantastic game of yours it's brilliant at four even batter at five but they play with two because you on the cover set it plays with two and your game sucks at two they now hate your game and if that's their first entry to the Hobby they might now hate the Hobby like rise that's what Bobby Gates is good this doesn't feel right now I thought this game was supposed to be funny it's like there's no jokes between us and I thought it was supposed to be interactive but we're not doing anything right whatever the case may be it's your fault as a publisher because you put two on the cover when you know you shouldn't have and I'm sorry you know when you shouldn't it's painfully obvious you know I'm thinking of science because Jamie stigma in the rule book said look you can play this at seven or whatever the McCanless but i don't recommend it but i know some of you will try it but just warning that's not what this like I like that that's fine like that little bit of a caveat going there yes technically this game does play til whatever but I don't suggest it to you I would even I would even be okay the Box said two through five best with three four five or best with five or whatever yeah great I now at least I have a view you gave me a warning you know right but exactly no but wider ranges sell more games I get it if you say two through six you're likely to sell a few more copies I get it you're also likely to piss off a few people especially that two-player game oh yeah by the way there's five extra pages of rules you have to read because now we have like an autonomous thing or whatever like it'd be nice to know that up front but I'm going to be playing a different game because I have like a whole different way of different set of mechanism so that review I watch for their time not great the game was at four or five right now she Kelly and I'm different game actually area yeah and publishers are constantly pushed for this the game will come out that's three to five and they'll say listen we got we want to sell more copies find a way to make this work for two and if you can put a solo game in there then there's even some worse were some games they'll put two to eight but you only can play eight if you buy two copies of the game that's real [ __ ] that is really especially sometimes it says that on the buyer but doesn't always yeah you got part of the game haha so there you go that is mine dishonest player counts on the boxes are my number six again this is enemies of gaming and so I'm not necessarily always picking things that we can deal with this is not it this is a problem just in general and I've had more of my games lost to this and anything else I think and I included humidity in there okay so this is actually not what you think it could be someone's spilling water in a table alright water leaking in your house sure you you left your thing right I've lost when I get back from Korea I used those dehumidifiers the ones that just sit there and have like those little balls in them and then it feels like water right and I use those in Korea because I didn't have I didn't have I didn't run air in that house so I did it the game is to stay fine and I accidentally left one in the box with the games and I lost five games straight up from water humidity in Florida here we got to be careful also if I can be more general in the broad scale there's these things called hurricanes which are a lot of water and wind but leaking in houses someone's spilling something on the game and these are you know there's a lot of times I've seen someone spill water and it's like okay quick let it all dry out the game never goes back to where it's been yeah warbie humidity like again warping games like alright why don't your copy looks so good everything's flats I'm off losing a different climate and black there we went - we played a game I remember that we got it at gamma we went to meet pecan and we opened it up and then when the game was over the lack of the desert air was like yeah and again this is you're like well look over the same as the others well yeah water is an enemy and I'm just making a list fire is as well acid that's coming up is something people deal with sandblasters I'll never forget when I lost my game question would you lose it to acid was it the Joker [Laughter] I things are getting serious now I'm a top 5 that's it now it's on now I'm talking about people well not me oh yeah your are the people now and this one's not a people thing although people are behind it I'll tell you that much this was near and dear to my heart it's bad rule books a box you open that box of a game I mean the fun is right there you can see it look at those cool currents and the miniatures and the board and everything looks awesome the fun is right there except it's not it's not right there there's this 25 page document it's between you and one is as it turns out robux bad rule books but books are part of it I deal with rule books unless of course there's a good video but look at that in a minute but bad rule books are then they frustrate me so much because it's already bad enough that our hobby regards people to have to read a 20-page rule book gross if that rule book is then poorly written there's things that are missing contradictory I can't find things then you're just adding more barriers to this thing that you sold to someone on the promise that this is gonna be fun you're just making it less and less fun as time goes on before I didn't get into the game this and Rule books of this weird thing that exists again that don't exist in other hobbies like video games or books or movies it exists in video games maybe item a that's true that's true and there was some pretty fun rule books for video games back maybe by all those were good days there are some good days but that's it's in a way I think bad rule books and the responsibilities on the publisher to play the game and play test it and blind play test it that's the biggest solution to MIT so many of the problems right I sit down to the game within five minutes I found problems and like anyone would have found this problem anyone it tells me that there's a there's a step that was missed after all that beautiful work was done the artwork and everything else someone didn't sit down and go okay you've never played this game before try to learn it let's see how you do and what's tripping you up and you behind those right you'd find those issues right away and yes if you had a little bit of trouble with the rulebook there are places you can go like my channel for that people what's the description easy it's called watch a play in the description we'll put 10 better channels we're doing that to learn game then watch it then watch it play I had a hard time narrow just at the turn let's move along shall we oh man that is brutal alright my number 5 you kind of touched on it with the water spilling thing messy eaters is really what I'm calling this you know and this is sort of a catch-all for people who spill things we've already said toddlers is a messy eater yeah you you we're talking about dusty snacks we're talking about grease we're talking about mishandling someone else's property we're talking about the general lack of respect for something that doesn't belong to you I don't care what it is it's a game or anything else this is maybe comes from growing up and not a lot of things maybe that's it maybe people who grew up with a lot of things and easily replaceable things right I mean that wasn't like something that was inculcated in them you know but you need to take care of other people's stuff cuz it's not yours you want to rip up your own thing is go for you paid for it or it's you know at the end of the day it's yours but yeah being a messy eater just kind of miss handling other people's property it's a problem and then if you're the one who says something because it's your thing then you're a jerk that's unfair you're putting someone in that situation yeah like don't be a man follow the nasty human being yeah you would be my number 5 is always on these lists because it's my personal biggest pet peeve with gamers yeah out of them and that is analysis paralysis but why here's the thing and this is the problematic and if you're my gaming grip and watching us I love you all but there are sometimes new people show up now new people show up to my game group and I'll be like hey you want to join me as we play a game when no one's ever played before and hopefully it's not bad yeah there's also people who don't say oh I'll play a game with you and I'm thinking uh and then that game which is a fun our game stretched out to three hours and that person doesn't enjoy it anymore also you go to a game meet up and you get stuck with one of these people and you're like oh I'm here for a fun night of games except there's no s it's a fun night of game right right and that's the only thing you did and I and and yes there's big arguments and you shouldn't push people they're taking their time but for me it's an enemy of gaming if I want to play a bunch of games and I'm stuck playing the same one or I'm sitting there bored to death while this person who first of all forgot it was returned for two minutes so I there's jokes and skits all the time where like the person you're like are they still moving do they know and yet I I was in a situation just a couple weeks ago I was playing a game with someone and I was sitting there watching her they're just sitting there and staring off into space and then I was like you know it's your turns are like I know and I was thinking oh then word you're moving you know I this is this is a tough phone because people will push back against as you said going like well come on you can't rush people people want to be able to have the time to think out their turns and stuff but the thing that I always come back to is that if there's one person at the table in particular maybe who's taking let's say on average like five or seven minutes for their turn and everybody else is taking their turn in one or two minutes it's it's unfair because every this person is is taking more time for themself in this group activity than anybody else and if you instead of the beginning of the game before we sit down just to be clear everybody we're all gonna take seven minutes for our turns so that means this game it's three turns I'm seven it's going to be five hours long whatever it works out to be everyone we said no thank you I'm not interested I don't think anyone would agree to that game right so it's it's clearly unsocial 'if it's essentially unfair that one person is taking more time for their turn and it's almost always because they don't want to make a bad move or they want to win the game that badly which is not that important especially enemies of gaming I'm trying to get new people into the hobby and I just and I and one of those gets in the thing and it's just not fun for that person I think that you hit the nail on the head there with the it's not that important to win I know think it is to them I think that's the difference well that's an enemy of gaming I don't disagree with you but I think those people are not any less smart than anybody else sitting down at the game I really don't probably more smart they could probably do it faster than the rest of them they're just making 100% sure that they are making zero mistakes that everything has been calculated to perfection and that they will win this game why because apparently it's that important to them I agree with you that's unfortunate it shouldn't be that important I do think there's people who were it's it's it's that or that they're afraid of making a mistake or looking dumb in front of the group and yeah that's a big that's hopefully where the group culture can kind of like say don't worry about the first game that doesn't matter who wins I agree I agree honey on this game you're not gonna I'd also let that look looking foolish fear is maybe the group you're pulling with would do that but you need to settle those kinds of terms you know it's it's okay to make a dumb mistake it's okay to not win no one thinks you're looking foolish you know that's important yeah I agree no alrighty [Music] well my number for a Q ties into what you're saying so I'll try to make this one relatively brief but I called it breaking the social contract because I think that gaming has obviously there are some things you might say publicly in a game group you might be like hey we start this time we try to end by this time or hey please don't eat food around the games you might have some things that are publicly spoken but you hope that there are certain things that don't have to be explained out and I think those are parts of the social contract that were just unspoken that we agreed to when we sit down to a group of not just friends but sometimes strangers you never met before you kind of hope there's some unspoken rules I think analysis paralysis is one of those ones that I kind of put in that category because it's like they can't really have a time limit your turn must be done in three minutes you know with the timer I mean could do that I suppose some games do do that we generally don't be very on front you just hope that there's a general understanding it look if you take your turn seven minutes every time if we all did that we'll be here all night so just that doesn't work we've got to kind of agree to something that's sort of common most that's right that that was one of the things there's basic things like being overly negative throughout the game if you're somebody just complaining about how the game is going for you again it's an unspoken social rule if someone's doing that that's bringing it I think bring it down for everybody else right being a poor loser being distracted being on your phone you know like so you don't know what's going on during the games he's sticking a whole extra list I'm sub-top being too competitive a thing that you mentioned there right that can be against like the social contract as its own for 14 I did it I did it darn it you didn't do yeah so the social contract not spoken things that people need to do to make a an evening an event be enjoyable for everyone all right I guess my number four then it was gonna be this but now it has to be people who when given rules feel like you know I've got my own channel on younger people listen to what I have to say so I guess this is a top-25 instead now number four has to do specifically with a lot of the things you said but I'm going a little more specific here impatient learners I'm this folks let's just go the rest of the list yeah exactly this is specifically those people who you are sitting down in a green that I'm going to teach you this game I know that some folks are not great teachers and I know some folks over explained games easy right here you do that with a purpose though there's a reason you doing um yeah and this is that person who is really to only good can we just start let's just start let's learn yeah I guess I'll figure it in it's unfair to the third person sitting there that doesn't really know what's going on yet isn't good even if it's just us - if it is if it is just with one person I will just start mm-hmm and they will be lost immediately yeah you know what I mean well this so I let it happen yeah I just let it happen and then oh yeah in 30 seconds they're about to ask me to to actually explain it dad that's a pet peeve it's annoying I understand that needs to be a balance there of me not just rattling off every possible card hmm totally get it okay but sometimes you are jumping the gun a little too quickly yeah we got to come to an agreement somewhere in the middle I agree and I think it's really as an enemy of gaming because of that third person the table or the other people the table who are like don't want to know if they're ready to jump in I guess maybe it's I'm the problem because I don't understand yet but you were hurting that person's ability this experience hey you think you've already got it then just sit quietly and listen and let this other person over here get what they think they are absolutely then you know carry on with your turns will be with the fastest play on the table innocence yours grow so much right exactly so here you go that's my number four impatience and learners right all right I don't want people to think I'm the old man get off my lawn type thing too late but he already brought the porch already in this yeah well my number four on this could say is texting or I mean it could be cell phones in general what does this thing oh that's great thanks good okay well done look I'm not I have a lot of cell phones in my family my kids are under cell phones all the time I've sat there with my wife and I said I can't believe I remembered distinctly I we were at a restaurant several years ago and I said they can't believe those two people are at the same table at a restaurant and they're both on their phones I can't believe they've done that and now I've done it myself with my wife we've been at the eat we're just like okay so I get all that and I'm not gonna say there should be phones at the table but don't sit there and tell me I have this phone for emergencies which you then apparently have for the next two hours sure right I don't even mind that you text people at the table you get a text and answer it fine by this size with the rules I have people who sit there and they text the whole time the rules are being explained and then they'll be like I didn't know that that's because you're an inconsiderate rude jerk who was on your phone when I was explaining the rules and then this constant and again I don't care that you are on your phone except when it's at the detriment of the game where every time it's your turn I'm like hey it's your turn Oh would you do watch yeah if you can text and be in the game are you okay with that I'm not trying to say no cell phones at the table that boat has sailed I'm not gonna fight yeah and I think a lot of people will potentially come back and go oh come on sometimes there's gonna be emergency we're not talking with that we're talking about those clear situations where someone's just got another social engagement then clearly rather be doing or at least equally be willing to do and board-gaming doesn't really afford that like I know goodies you're gonna be equally at the table with the right I don't think that's what it is I think it's that board-gaming isn't enough fun for that person yeah yeah I really think so addicted to their phones that amounted like the you know if you put it on a graph the length of time to the like a pipe of water right you have mounts of water coming out of it over an hour it's just not enough that person needs to turn on all those faucets they need more stuff happening you're actually you're someone who is very much like that you don't do it during gaming because gaming is enough but like you love to watch a movie while you browse the internet or whatever and work at the same time I like multitasking but there are some times where you have to go turning yourself I've done that before I'm typing an email and I start I'm like trying to watch a movie at the same time I alright movies off I'm on email or I'll stop the email want to move in sure it happens but with gaming but that's on my own time sure sure so no I guess I play hearthstone against the computer not against another opponent play against a computer I'll play a few turns and I got caught up in something be like oh yeah that's right I was playing hearthstone I'm not affecting anybody that sure sure but if I'm playing a game with you guys and then I look and you guys are all waiting in line who you are affecting someone yeah I'll just attack one thing on there I think everything that I find difficult just personally if I'm playing a game with somebody in there on their phone a lot I start to feel like you don't really want to be here with me like I start to take it a little bit personally like you sure I'm not enough for you like I want to be I want to feel like you're engaged in what I'm doing and then I'm engaged in what you're doing and you're just not invested in me it starts to feel like yeah nothing second fiddle going on in your life Jerry low-hanging wasn't even yours yeah all right well my number three the placement of this is quite intentional because my last one was talking about the silicon social contract right and then all I listed were 25 different things right I have my own little sub top ten this one is a lack of social tolerance in other words not tolerating the flaws on the people those things I just listed all those things that bug me that's a problem sure but then not being able to navigate those myself and suddenly getting worked up every time maybe someone grabs our phone they look at something and yes I agree there's certain where it's too much but no there's people who just get they're looking for something to be upset about or bothered by or whatever right so these pictures yes it's fun yes so just being a little bit intolerant of other people's foibles because we're all coming to these games with flaws I'm a flawed human being and I'm gonna be at that table and I'm gonna do things they're gonna know where the heck out of use at some point in time you're gonna do something's gonna annoy me the only way this is going to work is if we kind of allow for some amount of grace there amongst us you know like look that's the thing that Ronnie does is kind of annoying but overall I enjoy playing with them okay I have my own wife's not that big a demon that maybe not that make a deal of course again not contradicting what we said earlier there are things they're gonna be breaking point things for me I'm gonna choose over time you continue those things maybe gravitate over to this table and play with those other people instead it's gonna do that thing but especially at conventions and things where you're in mixed company with strangers sometimes I'll see somebody I don't know just like kind of call somebody they're taking too long for their turn or so we perceive you know or maybe they're I don't know fiddling with something on the table and there's the way that they get reacted to is a little harsher that makes me comfortable that's like hey we're here for like a limited period of time let's show a little grace to everybody this game will be over we can all go our separate ways you know we don't have to be the gaming police all the time right yeah I think this might be a little bit where I was kind of with finicky people to some degree where they're very in time but that was articulate fool see Rodney's number seven good speak well I know understand oh I get it you know I think you're right I think that concept of being graceful so basically Ronnie said why are we doing this list he does you can't say anything number three is we should love everyone just to make it even worse for these guys I think that is one of the gifts of this hobby unlike and I don't mean to pick on video games cuz I like video games just as much as anybody else but you can be the biggest jerk on the planet and still find people to play with in video games because you're just always cycling through new people all the time and board-gaming gives us an opportunity to learn to be better people because you have to interact with other human beings in like really and sometimes in uncomfortable situations games create uncomf I'm suddenly lying to you in this game or something to do it so that's aggravating me I still want to keep playing with you how we never get back to confront that I think gaming is like a gift in that way unlike some other things you can just kind of run from I don't like it I do with you ever again I have to deal with that problem there's my button well thanks for watching our top 10 today as we gonna say okay my number 3 I think you might have barely touched on it long a while ago in the list here but I didn't know what to call this but I'll explain it I'm calling it Borg gamers as in the Borg a here's what I mean by this okay I'm a tree bolt please you need to stop doing this this is people who feel the need to convert everyone around them their family their one-year-old pain their non-gaming spouse to be like them to play their games anything other than that is but a stepping stone to that my husband just played that you just learned to Ticket to Ride moonhaven what what do I need to teach them next in order to get them to play I'm not that or whatever whatever a soccer carry on yeah this is my child was just born you said this yeah I think we're done the last four we started yeah what's a good intro game so that they can eventually play Agricola right you're insane okay also you're very inconsiderate maybe your husband or your wife or your kid hey don't want to play games you should be okay with that but B might want to just play games that are as difficult as tickets are ride that might be blitz for that right but you feel the need to push your borg agenda on them so that they can stop playing ticket to ride that they were perfectly content with and then play wing span and then play Goom Haven right why right because the Borg is convinced that their level of fun that they're having is the level of fun and then I realize that that person is playing Ticket to Ride is having the most fun that they could really get it up like out of that gaming experience they're not going to have that learning I mean you would if you just played glue maybe you'd have the same fun no that's like with my mother used to tell me just eat that squash you'll like it no I don't like that right you like squash today a little bit I couldn't I had to be honest but you know I mean like my agree on hundreds I know that my experience can be your experience if you just do what I'm telling you you will have the same experience I'm having and that's just not how it works that's not true like it simply not true it's that idea of like you being your entire whole world you need to see through through other people's eyes put yourself in other people's shoes pick the one you what happens at amusement parks like my kids will be like to one kid like ride the roller coaster you'll love it right kind of ride you like you're wrong they're not I guarantee you they will not they know more about themselves than you do about that and the people are like that you know some people and I just it's a huge pet peeve of mine see I see these threads all the time online you know it's like all these experiences significant others are having or kids are merely invalid and just stepping stones to what they should be played to what they must enjoy that is really dismissive behavior of people and I think they're real the one of the real problems with it is that you will find the situations where yes you did take someone from splendor to gloom and then they had a great time just because there are some exceptions to the rule doesn't mean that that's the rule you should fall hi that's why I'm leave it don't don't hang your hat on a couple of cases where you were able to get someone into that it's that thing that destination you wanted them to for a lot of people it won't be the same well I said we'll get a resistance along the way also and then like they hit a wall and they go oh I guess you know wingspan wasn't the right stepping stone now I'm finding another game I'm pushing in there I'm getting you to blue Haven like somebody might say like yeah you know I really enjoy ticket to ride this is a little complex oh it just it's not that they are happy a ticket to ride no no you just pick the wrong next step right I will find another next step you need to stop alright my number three here one my number three is a crossover and it's rulebooks yeah I mean you know you have a channel oh it's not it's not even just bad rule books I was actually thinking enemies again yet is bad rule books but rule books themselves they're really difficult and I would argue that I read more rule books than almost anyone alive for games and there are so many times open it up and I'm like know what other game is there because they're they're a pain and having designed a game writing the rule book which I had to do for that particular game was extremely difficult got extremely negative reviews well-deserved and it was really hard and I know good rule books but that doesn't mean I'm good at writing them it's a very difficult thing will me bling as a name you won't often hear but will me bling jr. writes really good rule books he takes the rule books and puts him down he's the people out of a lot of companies hire him to do that right and there's other people who are good at reading books and there's a lot of people who are not and it's very difficult and I can't many times I have gotten angry while playing a game I don't get angry often playing games but I got angry at the rule book yeah where I just wanted to punt through books I've been there yeah it's so frustrating it's like how could you not have anticipated somebody would ask this question yeah it's mind-boggling to me and just their rule poorly laid out I'm like flip flip flip flip flip where is a stupid rule don't abort game geek which I know about but not everyone does I can't tell you how many people would probably have bought a game opened it up with like whoo oh this isn't like monopoly which is actually a more complicated game than people think but they know the rules to it sure so I'm really thrilled when companies like fog of love have a walkthrough thing right or they have a QR code that says want to skip the rules or like very clear laid out rules that help people there's a lot of there's a lot of companies are doing a great job of this there are so I want to be clear on that things are much better than they used to be I think on the whole especially amongst the bigger companies I think they've learned this and as you said if people get higher maybe you're not the one to write your rules but there are people you can hire who will do a good job editing your robots I just like it's a barrier to the hobby in general time and I don't I don't think that's a bad guy I don't think what's a bad thing I don't think it's a it's gonna happen right I don't think it's wrong to be intimidated by a rule book they're a pain in the neck and I distinctly remember when it happened with video games because I used to buy video games and I remember they came in boxes that were a little smaller than this I remember that like the game came then with the big rule book and you flipped through it and the first time one came without a rule book and I was like you know and they're like here's a tutorial oh okay and that taught you the game I was like weird right but that's how it works now yeah so so do whatever you can to lower that barrier the barrier can't I really remove if we can make it better we can make it better make sure you are yeah number two [Music] all right right number two this one I I listed as a lack of diversity and representation in the Hobby I can only talk about this particular topic from my very limited experience as somebody who where I grew up I was kind of in the majority I was never a minority my church or my school and my workplace everyone looked like me for the most part so I can only talk for that narrow experience but what I do remember as a kid playing games was that I would often pick the character who looked like me there was people to choose pick from I pick race the white guy with the brown hair and if I got lucky maybe brown eyes too I wanted to be the hero and I'm playing the eyes huh well I could find they've had options you know and that was the thing I don't think I had options you know and I I wanted to be the hero in the story I was playing I want to be the knight who's gonna go you know fight the dragon or whatever I want to sort of embody that maybe it's a lack of imagination to make it I just I wanted to put myself in that situation and I felt like growing up that the board gaming hobby gave me lots of great options to do that like I felt like I had lots of options to pick from I could pick something that looked like me and I don't feel like the Hobby traditionally did a good job of offering that option to other people who didn't look like me it was usually if there was like six characters five of them would be guys white guys and one of them would be a woman in a chainmail bikini you know like that was that was what you were picking from that's when I felt like you know what I mean and there's a subtext to that as well I think which is when you see yourself in the options that are being presented it kind of communicates to you this is for you I mean because look we're we're making a game we put all let's just say white guys as the character to pick from it's kind of communicating that's who this is for to play you know I mean and so I think I think that it's changing I think in good ways I think we're seeing more diversity in the options of games but I think that's because people have been advocating for it often times in the faces of other people who kind of go like man who cares what's the big deal you know I feel like that hopefully that shift is happening because people are saying I want this to be seen as it's an invitation to more people who don't just look like like this guy does you know what I mean so I think as an enemy of gaming is is limiting the scope of what games can look like and what they they can be I have one other quick little example I want to mention because I'm BoardGameGeek there was a there was a thread that got started there was around the time Google I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that right from that game yeah goo gun yeah yeah there was literally cover and someone just posted the thread they said look I'm Chinese and I'm really excited at this game coming out because it's sort of set in the init Chinese setting but the the outfits that people are wearing on the cover this is not what they would be wearing in that era there was just a polite little you know this could be changed that'd be awesome and that created quite a conversation of people a lot of people are going like what's the big deal and I'll be honest with you like when I read that I also kind of went like what is the big deal like I don't know any of the history I don't know any of the culture around that if I'm playing this game I'm not going to be thinking about who was wearing one on the cover that was my internal feeling and then I had this other thought but you kind of turn it on it I got thinking what if somebody made a board game about Canadian Mounties which someone should do and on the cover it showed a Canadian Mountie and they were wearing a purple jacket like a purple Members Only jacket or something and that was the uniform they put them in I had to admit I would be like but no they were a sharp red Serge that's part of Canadian culture and history like that means something to me why did they not care enough to just figure out what would make sense there culturally if that is part of the selling point of their game they're selling the game partly based on a piece of Canadian culture this is going to appeal to people who are you know right it's right Neil - so I just like that allowed me to see just a little hint of oh this is why this would matter to somebody because this means something to them it's not just okay we're putting cubes on a table there's something beyond that so I think a little more sensitivity to that in gaming is is a good thing and it's it's what prevents I think the officer that is kind of an M&E to gaming which I'm not sure if I'm saying eloquently enough but that's that's sort of my family that's what everything you're saying today is eloquent and we're gonna just have to retire I think you put it very plainly but I mean well put but also it's very plain what you are saying is not flowery myself yeah when I look at these games and if I can step outside of myself which we've been talking about I've been talking about finding that ability right right and put myself in that person's shoes I would look at this not see myself right right now I would feel like this isn't for me that's a very simple way to put that I think I hope that make some kind of option number my number two all right my number two is a pretty straightforward one it's gonna bother a lot of people this is alpha gamers is my number two mm-hmm it is you always say it's the people problem that a game problem I do that's why I put it on the people side not the publisher side because it is not a publisher problem okay talk to us about this one this is the idea that people are saying well this game is so prone to alpha gamers mm-hmm I get that some games are more prone to alpha gamers than others of course your rules for your game you say this game is played without communication yes there's fewer alpha gamers of course no one's talking in it right but it is not a problem I guess so it is not a problem of the game there is a gamer problem it is it ties back to that guy who has ap because he must win we are all playing a game together right there's one person over there sitting there was played this game six times with two people that I've never played and I'm the fourth guy and sentence seems to be they feel the need to tell everyone what to do because they must win right I want to you know there's like a little meme online with like a cartoon guy holding the other cartoons lips shut saying like let people have fun online or something like let people whatever it is and I'm like you know I feel like I'm guys should grab millich let people discover things okay because that's what they're taking job you're right that's what that alpha gears taking away robbing someone of an experience you had yourself right discovering this game they don't I don't need them to win I need them to have fun you know what the heart of the journey is discovering a game this isn't just co-op games we often assume sometimes that people are pretty stupid coming to a table and unfortunately this is often directed towards people who don't normally play their hobby like I'd seen it happen a lot with spouses women particularly us they'll sit down and their boyfriend or just someone at the table will be like well this is what you should do yeah well you could point out a few options but you better be that way to everyone if you're doing it first of all and then secondly don't play their turn for them there's one couple I won't play with actually because that happens I can't stand I'm playing against one person twice it really bothers me it's like they'll go on them do this alright you you need to do this there's this and this maybe they can make their own decision and I think that's really bad and it's really uncomfortable for new people you come in sure they want help sometimes sometimes they don't sometimes they just want to make their own move it's also a way to give someone help and pointers that's what I said I think you should not it's not alpha gaming you know I've taught I've taught cooperative games a lot sometimes a lot of the same one like pandemic I can teach pandemic I can make sure you're having a good time ideally I can help you figure out what's going on and maybe things that are good ideas maybe things that are bad ideas without telling you what to do right so can anyone else everybody can do that but telling someone we have to have it played this a lot yeah so you to win need to do this is a problem you're more concerned about winning at that point than playing and if that's the case then roll a die a six-sided die right I don't know one through six you win okay then go away I'm sorry you're too worried about that it's you're playing a game because the best way also for that person who's learning for the first time to get to the place where that other person that is not by being told what to do it's by making the mistake it's by a bad place let them local the CEG's let them figure it out like oh that probably wasn't a good idea let them find that out don't mean that worried about winning play with it because you're more experienced and you're probably better at the game have a little fun challenging yourself oh boy they're about to do something really dumb you know next turn I'm gonna see if I can help them solve this how we gonna help me patch up this hole in the boat now yeah right and I think if they go well I'm thinking I might go over here and do this thing which is maybe not a great idea what do you think should I do I'm like yes do it yes yeah yeah do it I mean that's what you want to do do it it's like the kids a traitor it's when those questions are posed I know a lot of alpha gamers try right you're like I'm gonna be quiet but then someone's like well I don't know what to do should I do this thing which is probably again not a good idea but they can't help being like no you shouldn't do that that's a dumb move you can do this thing no just let them make it like here are the four options what are you doing that do I think it's a good idea sure let's let's do it let's see what happens yeah yeah anyway that's a big one for me and that's my number two my number five was ap analysis paralysis my number two is very close what Rodney said earlier it's a D I'm positioned disorder yeah which is FOMO I think the ball use of this term yes here's the thing again if you collect the coton of games more power whatever I don't care how many games you have or don't have but when this becomes the hobby for you and again if it's your hobby that's fine but I feel like it's unhealthy and it is an enemy to gaming when I'm like hey do you want to play this game no Aybar III think I already had that one what else is there what's new what's coming out I say cult of the future or when you tell other people you kind of mock other people for having that maybe game but aqueous disorder also comes in effect with a single game God have everything and you can't have fun but this actually came into play with our recent Kickstarter we ran there was we had a card come that came out for a game attain it Grail I think or something like that right and someone was like people were saying I'm gonna go rate the game low because I don't have everything for the game now and they were mad that they didn't have something that's not even existing the car hasn't been made yet yes yeah it doesn't affect what you've done and it there are so many people online who pat themselves on the back with the whole I got out of magic because it was you know cuz I spending all this money on board games and it's not like magic yes it is it can be you're probably spending more money now and these people they go out and they hunt down every promo card every expansion and then they act like everyone else needs to do that too I'll be like who the plaintiffs who do you have all the expansions no mmm you know no it's okay right we don't have to have everything and you don't have to have everything for gaming in general you don't have to have a specific game I won my fair game we've been talking in Cosmic Encounter if you don't have Cosme encounter your collection I'm not judging you on that you might not like it you don't have to have it why would you have games you don't like that much right yeah you can't play every game you can't own every game so I'm kind of you said to playing I'm kind of going on the owning yes you just can't get it all cuz ain't Pokemon there's a none you know and also I really remembered the moment where it like cling like a bell for me I was in Korea I had at the time at 1400 games and I was thinking I'm getting a good collection why I don't know what it was like a light bulb went off I was keeping games I didn't even like but it made the numbers of my collection bigger why am i keeping these games I don't even like them what are they why are they are they there in case someone else comes in and goes I was looking for that garbage even game that no one else wants to play you don't want to play them right and so I got man once I started pulling that band-aid then I was like this is a game that I thought was okay I'm never gonna play it again I should get rid of that too it made life a lot better I think there's something freeing in that that's for sure every time we say this there's gonna be comments it's ironic I know we do channel especially did I start pacifically yeah we're we're always talking about new games and will say this is a great game check it out and stuff but literally we don't mean everyone should check out every game we're taking a look at that one game at that point in time and saying is it good or is it bad I really like it but I don't mean for everyone to get every game and we can't stop people from having these acquisitions and disorder we know people like promos that's why they're in our Kickstarter sure right but at the same time you don't got to have everything for every game you will have an unfulfilled life because it never ends it will be more never be over you'll never get everything ah it's a terrible way to live so acquisition disorder my number two well here we are written number one on the list and I choose one that I think it's gonna dovetail into what yours just was using a healthy gamer right yeah I called this the serious gamer all right and I like capital asks serious game now this is a this is a little bit of a nuanced one because let's be honest serious gamers people who are really passionate about the hobby blow really into it there are also the people who usually are starting game groups they have the nice big collection of games to help share with their friends and their advocates they they know all the new stuff coming up they can top educated way above the hobby and help fast-track someone maybe who's new into some really great game so serious gamers are great I think I'm probably a serious gamer myself imagine we're kind of serious gamers but there is this weird joke or smile about games it's serious business there's a little tipping point though into certain kinds of behaviors where I going oh this person's really serious about gaming and I just got to get uncomfortable I remember there was an example recently on Facebook I saw someone made a post they were getting a game set up this was a quite involved game to set up so they'd set it all up there like and they just little post saying games all set up and really excited to play never played before does anyone have any tips for learning how to play this game and someone responded with yeah I have a great tip pack it all up put it back in the box throw it in the garbage because that game sucks and I want it I want it all mine I want reach through the screen and I understand what that person's doing they didn't like the game and they just want to like I don't know warn someone off or whatever but like that is you're taking your opinion so seriously like you believe that you need to tell somebody that what they're about to do this is the thing there but they're excited to be doing is not worth their time like what a buzzkill in the name of being a serious gamer I can't help but see it you're taking your thoughts and your ideas so seriously and I see this all the time and someone talks about something excited about that game sucks you shouldn't play that that's a waste of time that's like a like a level of gamer who I will say there is a difference between saying that game sucks and saying I think your opinion is invalid I will say that all right I'll say a game sucks all day long yeah yeah but I also don't think if it looks good to you you shouldn't play it well I think I think it's you know it's context to like I would hope I don't know like if someone was like saying if they were expressing I'm really excited to play in this game I wouldn't want the first thing if I thought it sucked I probably wouldn't say no no course not I mean but in conversation in the context time I saw it's not a game I really enjoy we're just talking about game I like you know but it's the context and some people sound like that alpha gamer they can't help themselves they go centered nature yeah the end of the day that's what it is it's about being self-centered to a degree okay this idea of my experience is more valid than yours right I'm not going to negate your experience right like I'm just like you shouldn't they gave mine if I think it sucks right in my world and so that's your truth right yeah that's my truth exactly but if you're excited to play that game if you love that game that is then your truth and I shouldn't invalidate that do you know I think that's insanity yeah these people who show up and say well why do you like it hey you should throw it away you should pack it up it's it's bad game not if they like it it's you're enjoying it then that's that's that's a win that's okay it's really good it's good okay for me really different from you I don't go to a not to enjoy it so if I go to a movie and I enjoy it then I've had a success if somebody else went to the movie they didn't enjoy it doesn't make their experience invalid it wasn't a good movie for them but I kind of want in that situation because I enjoyed myself we want people to enjoy ourselves right that was one thing I'll just say a couple quick other things with serious gamers I think serious gamers unfortunately talk in-game or speak they talk about euros Tamara trash that's fine again in the context for example what we're doing here this is a board game show where two board gamers often times right but I think you you'll have something new at the table and they'll throw terms and stuff around not being sense to the fact that nobody knows what you're talking about right it's you've been in the Hobby so long you forget what it's like not to be in the hobby yes and I think that and you need to probably find yourself brushing up against people who aren't in the hobby a little more frequently honest right because it'll bring you back it's because that's that's an enemy of gaming I think sure because it turns people off they go this sounds very esoteric and confusing I don't understand what this person saying and it sounds like there's all this stuff I need to know I need get started don't find yourself with a sliding scale of how difficult the game is I had that right on here I they pick a serious serious gamer picks a game for new people to play yeah me go we'll play gloom it's not that complicated no it's not that complicated and yes and I'll be like yeah damn well is like you didn't say yeah your scale is before it boggles my mind that you go the dance squad leader and it's the weighting ranking on board game gigs like a 4.5 which means someone didn't read it lots of people didn't rate it a 5 then what is yeah what is nothing I just say like just dial it back a little bit be passionate and purge it from there and then just check yourself every now and then just check yourself try to remember what was it like before I was in gaming yeah and they just try to recalibrate occasion when I grew up playing 18 X's but give me some more stock but be excited love the games whatever be passionate but boy just be careful and there's lots of good serious gamers there's lots of people were serious about gaming and they're not you know they're aware and conscious of these things but just be cautious of those little blind spots we sometimes have yeah I thought this might be your number one this is very uh no it's very again very well put together I think you have a lot to talk about there a lot so on pack for people who are watching mine is nothing like that mine's really kind of very seriously okay it's a very serious issue right I think it's a not as intellectual body odor yeah gotta you gotta wash you need to wash yourself with you know your see a routine you need to maybe I consider aromas that you can you know apply to yourself you need to consider that the the scent perhaps that you are trailing behind you you need to maybe consider that other people are not as accustomed to your body order as you are yourself I'm being tongue-in-cheek no it's just you know it's it's it happens it happens unfortunately and it's a stereotype that we kind of go hahaha about because you know what it's largely true that's there are a lot of folks at conventions and gatherings and get-togethers that do have a problem with it and I know look sometimes I'm not trying to be insensitive I know sometimes it is a medical condition and if so then it is what it is I assume they've talked about it with the doctor and tried to figure out a solution I can't like that that's fine I'm talking about people who are just you can tell they're a little under the hygiene bar isn't quite being met maybe a little more cavalier about it yeah yeah considering it's a good tip just in general because again gaming is a social experience we're generally sitting in pretty close proximity to each other not only is it like but and that body odor thing isn't Nestle but we might traditionally think of sometimes like you need to apply a little more do during whatever sometimes it's you've applied a little too much deodorant like a little too much cologne mr. axe you know you've put on like you sprayed your cell you coated yourself and sense I just want to not know you exist please use that quote of Rodney's to know that you don't exist it's like special effects in the movie you just you don't want to notice that they're doing it just this is their I think that's a sigh I agree I agree like I did I don't I don't want you to smell like a rose because that's like too much also like we want certain levels sanitary well there's a few perfumes I smell now's like like that yes yeah I know it again it might seem like a weird patty number one but it is also one of the most no pun intended anything of that polls you're on the screen it's one of the most potent hard to ignore things you might discover at a gaming table it really is when you're being obnoxious at a gaming table you're probably not being obnoxious all of the time if you smell bad it is with every breath every breath all right go my number one is a crossover with Rodney it was his number one I called him uber gamer there we go the biggest enemy of gamers gamers themselves and this comes across oh you guys so d so many ways you know I I we make a lot of jokes here on the done the dice tower about the heavy war gamers and heavy eurogamer's and and I get it they play different games and we do and that's that but that really bothers me sometimes so this was a really funny thing to happen at the gaming meetup that we did on Saturday mm-hm which it happened to me so it didn't bother me that much but I got there early it opened up at 11:00 so I I got there at 11:00 a bunch of other the heavy eurogamer's came in I sat down I start setting up some game I was gonna play and the heavier gamers there was like six of them they're like okay well we're gonna set up and we have enough people for one game mate it looks like we have to split into two games then someone else called and said they were there and a guy said yeah we're gonna have three games total going you know and I said I also have a game and they looked at me like oh yeah that's right you're playing a game - and it was got it silly right hahaha but it's not that funny in a lot of ways because we kind of looked down in my game Meetup there's a guy who comes every time with monopoly and life and all kinds of stuff and I can look at him and go not as good as me my games are better his games now I won't play his games with him unfortunately I just don't want to play those games but he's not less than me though both players are not less than men yeah that are there the Magic the Gathering players are not less than me right and the war gamers and eurogamer's guys are just something they are also not less than me they're just different and we often kind of just we we kind of scorn and in this studio and inner thing we joke back and forth about that and I will mossad bye guys he plays light games which isn't necessarily 100% sure but we'll make fun of that right we'll make fun back and forth but I gotta be really cautious on this and I burned myself in the past where I have kind of put down someone else's games and they bothered them something I'm someone if I walk by a table now someone's like hey what do you think of this game I'm like it's a trap don't have that problem if somebody does ask me what do you think about this game and I don't like it I will tell them I don't like it it's not so much even that I think it's not even I'm asking it's my love of talking and I might accidentally volunteer that information in a joking way like oh you're playing this I won't play that and not everyone finds that as funny as I am right right so I've been cautious on that but it's even that it's that whole you're not playing like the war gamers I've said this for years they chase people way for many of them chase people away from wargaming because I someone come in and be like I like axes and allies oh I guess this isn't for me then right and a lot of times that game meetups I'm really cautious on that it's the same reason you place you teach someone a new game it's probably not best to beat them by 500,000 points they may not want to come back my goal is to make gaming enjoyable for people not to destroy them not to prove that I'm better than them not to set my hobby is better than them and I almost put the Hobby here because the hobby sometimes an enemy of gaming people get caught up in the reviews and online stuff and that's more important than the actual gaming but I just burr gamers themselves now again I realize that we are gamers are so preaching to the choir to a certain degree yes but I jump out there and I'm in gaming and I have to realize that I'm playing games with people to teach my favorite game and people go that wasn't bad thinking I have no taste you know but they're just different and it's a mindset I really think it's a mindset cuz it's not wrong to think war games are the best thing ever and other games aren't for you or whatever that but that that mindset that goes from I really enjoy the system's what really I find fulfilling to and people who don't they're missing out or there's something wrong with their taste or whatever that is that's where it shifts into something else that I don't like I that's where it becomes an enemy of gaming because again that's what drive people away oh I guess I'm not not playing the right games you know well that's it folks yep that's good I liked it yes tell us what do you think Brody yes thankful for Rodney coming on board and bringing up the class level of the dice I'm really looking forward to reading the comments and see what people say about this list reactions by ruling your other people come sure you guys said things I didn't think I'm sure other people will say things I didn't consider you can almost Edwards Tom can smell all righty well thank you guys for watching until next time I'm Tom Messner m-z Garcia and I'm Randy Smith will happen game [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]

Channel: The Dice Tower

Views: 200,320

Keywords: board game, board, game, dice, card game, cards, catan, monopoly, tower, dice tower, vasel, review, tom vasel, vassel, settlers, gaming, GeekUsername: TomVasel, board game review, boardgame, uno, ticket to ride, apples to apples, educational games, educational, top 10

Id: ytUUQhKdzL0

Length: 101min 8sec (6068 seconds)

Published: Thu Feb 20 2020