Top 10 Games that are Worth the Effort

[Music] [Music] hey everybody i'm tom vassell i'm z garcia hello and i'm mike d'alessio yeah i'm mike d'alessio hey there man i felt like i i lost a bit of my edge so my voice is maybe coming back that's disgusting it's not coming back you heard it yesterday okay you're right you're a lot better let me rephrase that you didn't hear it yesterday that's correct um so i saved it up for this video okay so we'll see if it works yes what will happen though is if i sound pathetic enough we won't be you can't mock my choice i'm gonna tell you what if you don't i've heard of flawed logic but that's ridiculous if you don't shout the name of every one of your games then they're gonna be invalid speaking of shouting so my office is right there mike was here this morning during the game show yeah he's really loud he's very loved look i uh i have a voice that could move mountains let's just be clear i have a very commanding voice i i like to use the word commanding maybe i'm a little loud i'm very loud especially if i get into it you know teaching tom i mean you have to project right we all taught thank you you have to project yeah this is how you taught with this voice no wonder the kids yeah yeah no wonder pandemonium in mr vassell's class um all right well what are we talking about today's list is our top 10 games worth the effort okay so a game that well what does that mean i'll tell you what it means it means i have a i have a really hard time putting a top ten list together so i started with okay a game is just big and difficult to play and whatever and then as i like really had a hard time with this walked around the office asked everybody then there was sort of the discussion of well the rule book isn't great okay that's a good idea or the game's a campaign game so you have to have people consistently show up or there's just something generally obtuse about it or the setup takes a long time i thought about all of that at the end of the day most of them ended up being because the game's kind of long and complex but you know yeah i did try to come at it from multiple angles and yeah i was part of those discussions so some of the games are going to be but i'll mention them when i talk about the game as to why i think there's an effort there you said everything i was going to say so i'll save my voice there you go smart man see let's get started all right so gentlemen my number 10 believe it look one of the things they say about verb and write schemes right roll and write flipping right one of the one of the the hallmarks of those this verb ready don't call them bourbon right that's a terrible name verb and verb is that better i really do dislike verb and write i just it was a joke well don't ever make it whatever verb and write vocal shouting again command you um one of the things about those genre games is that they're usually considered to be really easy to teach play over soon my number 10 is hadrian's wall and that's because that's a good choice yeah this is a game that you tell people oh we're going to play a flip and write game or a roll and right game and then they see what's in front of them which is two very very involved looking sheets it definitely has a spreadsheet vibe oh my goodness there is a lot going on and chris proposed to this game yeah yeah basically this this is a very very involved game but it is also my favorite in this genre of games bourbon right game any type of something and write games this is my favorite and because the payoff is so good it is it's it's a game where it's not complex for complexity's sake everything is to have these interconnected mechanisms that involve that gives you combos but not the not the kind of combos that you might get from something like sean clever which is also satisfying but in a different way this is something that really allows you to kind of build your scoring opportunities throughout the game and i always love that in games where you have not static scoring you have scoring that you can kind of push towards that's right and so this does it really really well it takes a while to teach it takes a little while to learn and it can be intimidating to look at but it's worth it it's a long teach it is a long teach uh but but it's worth it so my number 10 is hadrian's wall yeah i know no it's definitely worth it sees number 10 gunshot clever right right right exactly i'm telling you i had a hard time coming up with this list because any game i really really like i don't consider consider effort like there was sort of a cyclical nature trying to pick these anyway my number 10 which is in my opinion obviously my weakest pick i for a while there couldn't even remember why i picked it that's saying something um my number ten is santa maria but i am also largely including here the expansion and i'll mostly be talking about the expansion okay santa maria is a little bit of a tricky game i haven't played the expansion yeah right so i cannot i can't argue everything you say is correct here's the thing about the expansion this game's a little tricky to figure out and play but it's a chunky euro game okay the expansion has as many if not more rules than the original game change to some of the rules to the original game but one player only will play that expansion board basically so everyone else at the table uh unless i'm misremembering but it's basically that's the way it works most everyone is playing the same game as the original version of the game with a few tweaks one player has a board which looks nothing like the boards that the other players have has all these new rules has an entirely new game to learn that like i'm saying has as many pages as the original rulebook and yet it's just an expansion it's like it will only pretty much affect that player interesting and still i think it's interesting because the push and pull between how that player's development of his board or her board and everybody else has a cool give and take there's a push-pull nature to it so that's the main reason why i thought about this and the expansion for it i still would recommend it if you're a big fan of santa maria but boy it's some heavy lifting for just an addendum really so my number 10 is santa maria and that extra expense i don't know that i've even seen the expansion for this before like i don't even think i've seen the box oh really yeah yeah like american colonies i think it's called okay okay that's my tent all right um happy new year to alexander thank you happy new year all the way to finland my number 10. yes it's like peter brady it's like doing a top 10 with peter brady my number 10 google it kids no one knows who peter brady is come on they just did a reunion picture thing i don't know who peter brady is you don't really no yeah you do who is your peter brady from the brady ball it's a story oh okay okay i know the brady bunch but i'm a lovely lady i did not know his name was peter brady's pork chops i've also not seen i think the brady bunch you're not missing anything you're not missing anything oh come on i've seen a little bit of it like marsha have you ever had a a cracker and you put some cheese whiz on it you ate it you were like huh interesting but i'm good brady bunch i have not never done that no they're the cheese crackers it's comfort food it's not i reckon i get that can that pressurized can and i keep going until that thing has no air left in it my number 10. is war of the ring um okay for obvious reasons this is sure this is a hard teach it's a two player game so if one person's learning it they'll teach it to you but there's so much going on in this game it's helpful to know all the stuff in the deck it's helpful to know all the things that can happen yeah i thought about putting star wars rebellion on the list but this one has even more i think going on in the game and i i really like this but you really have to get into it you're like i have a fellowship and there's a hunt going on in between turns but there's also a war game and some of the factions aren't involved and you know you throw an expansion even more so but once you know all that stuff it's like ah it comes together like some fine cheese whiz oh no cheese in a box no one has ever made that statement wore the ring this game is like cheese cheese in a box like fine cheese whiz in the box i like that but it's really an excellent game it's it's intimidating to the point where at the last retreat i saw some people with it there and a teacher wanted sign and i was like no oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's because got to step out which then you might say then why is it on this list if it's really worth the effort it's worth your effort i love that it's not worth my effort it's worth your effort to learn if someone else is teaching it okay my number ten [Music] all right my number nine is going to go into that category that you mentioned briefly at the beginning of this video of a campaign style game yeah and those have their own challenges like you said it could be a dedicated group issue that's not the case with my number nine necessarily my number nine is a game called dawn of peacemakers this is a game that is a campaign style cooperative game uh i it's on a lot of my list because i feel like this is a game that i champion tom's not a huge fan of it i still think it's i like to be clear i dislike him he dislikes it he's wrong it's a really good game the much of the effort here comes not only in the fact that it is a campaign style game but you have to uh on each scenario kind of build the map right there's a there's a hex-based board and you have to put out different tiles and sure there's a bit of setup involved and and things along those lines but this is one of those games that i feel there are a lot of these types of games yes this does not feel like any other of those types of games that's correct for tom to the bad for me to the good i feel like it subverts what your expectations are for campaign games it subverts what your expectations are for skirmish games it subverts what your expectations are for cooperative games subverting your expectations is not always a positive no it's not always a positive thing it is in this game to me how many times do you play last year well i actually i'm glad you brought it up because i did restart this campaign last year and actually this year this i did i and i'm not just making it up i really did and the reason was because i played through the whole thing and i was like i want to play through it with a different main character and so that's what i did i started now i haven't finished it yet but i i am like three games in i love these kind of games but this one yeah you bounced off it but i think it's fantastic um i think it really does something different and it is worth the bit of effort that it takes a game to be hypocritical i wouldn't normally call a game hypocritically agree with you called dawn of the peacemakers how do you make peace make the two armies equally kill each other no make them equally tired of fighting they're by killing each other necessarily you might give them food poisoning they don't have to die there literally is a food poisoning card yeah you you want to get both sides to get to the point where they're just they don't want to fight anymore they want to just be done with it okay and you lose if one side defeats the other side i got it you're trying to kind of keep them so that they it's like a war of attrition thing where they're like you know what we've had enough of this we're going home okay so anyway that's my number nine dawn of peacemakers i'm glad you played it this year mike by the way if you do ask me that question i will lie all these games i've played this year don't even try let me see if that's actually true nah okay my number nine is uh one we played oh what you're gonna ask me that's right question have you played it this year i've played this this year so have you oh this is anna 1800 oh good joy this is a good one good thank you i got one you got it i know 1800 is you look at that cover the cover is very attractive actually in a baroque it is actually it's nice um you look at the board and you look at all the tiles that's a player board by the way yeah it's just some player board and it starts to then become a little scary like you said intimidating for uh for the ring first play is going to be a trying experience i think because you you still don't yet see the paths that you could take that will take you the entirety of your first play if not longer gosh yes but i would recommend you stick with it okay it will it will blossom as you discover more of it as you start seeing connections of what bounces to what other what level one thing takes you to level two which leads you down this path or that one there's a lot going on i don't know yet if this was the best delivery method for what the game is trying to get across to the players this sort of grid where perhaps logical things are not necessarily next to one another i agree yes but the game is good it's a good game it works well it's tens and it's got some really interesting mechanisms in there this idea of sort of like getting close to ending the game and then backing off because you drew cards again right and then you get close again to ending the game it's a it's a really interesting system yeah the player driven kind of pacing for the game yeah it's good yeah yeah yeah so um i know 1800 it's it's a good one given it's a good call i do need to play this one i think oh yeah i thought you had played it yeah you should knock it out you should check it out all right my number nine is because of the initial setup okay and then the game setup and that's marvel legendary yeah and i'll tell you why because i like this game a lot i have this game in one of those big containers and every time i think about playing it i'm like okay so i need to make five heroes put them together do you use a randomizer in any way no no no i go here's your guys yes yes yes you have to go fishing for that thing after the app finds it yeah actually i don't use a randomizer ever with deck building i do semi-random yeah where i'll be like yes yes yes yes oh no yeah that's so this one is a lot to set up especially when you first get the box oh my gosh because they're like hey would you like all the cards of the same hero to be together that's not how we transform them yeah it's kind of cool it's even worse with the alien ones yeah because at least with the heroines you can go spider-man spider-man spider-man spider-man iron man yeah the alien ones have a little code in the corner right yes and some card types that look like they belong to the same deck do not yes yes that's right oh my goodness but once you do figure it out it all comes together yeah um and i think it's an excellent game there's just a lot of setup in there so that's sure marvel legacy legendary yeah [Music] hot tea hot tea if you push it farther away from you tom it'll be less hot when you drink it i don't know but you just kept pushing it farther away in the microwave but not in that cup because it's metal we are live right what's going on this is a complete catastrophe my gear number eight please my number eight is a euro game a worker placement game those usually don't take a lot of effort but this is a big complex worker placement game with a ton of pieces that was on my short list as a matter of fact no i went with anachrony anachrony is my number eight okay this is that's that's a good one yeah there's just there's a lot of setup too here's the thing i like the game a lot i'm not convinced the effort is well that new box has ruined me that's what i'm saying i don't have the infinity box which is how long it takes to set it up i have the original game uh and that i think is worth the effort i agree with you when you add in all the expansions then i think that maybe it's not worth that effort but with the base game of uh anachrony i feel like this gives you i was just talking about this with chris earlier about a different game that's not on this list this idea of the the complexity of games being you know it seems like euro games especially are becoming more complex as the years go on right and my thing is the payoff better be there if you're going to do that this is one that is on the heavier scale as far as euro worker placement gains but i do feel like the experience you get is worth that extra effort you put in there are not you know there are plenty of that i can mention that i won't hear that i don't feel like that is the case right but anachrony i feel like is a special worker placement game that does some different things that does some unique things the the complexity feeds into the depth this it's not a game that plays the same every time you play it really has a lot of highs and lows and a good pacing and everything else so i really like anachrony but i do agree with you tom 100 i'm not interested in all the extras i haven't even opened it up yet for that one reason exactly sometimes uh there is such a thing as too much absolutely much all right my number eight is um it's very different from all the other picks on here pretty much because it's a um it's more of a physical limitation or physical inconvenience that i have with this version of the game the game's not easy it's not difficult to play at all what i'm talking about here is cleopatra and the society of architects i considered this big old giant box edition okay this thing is a reprint of the one from days of wonder which is very easy to play would never make this list this edition is cumbersome you have to physically build things and then as you build the columns of her palace and the walls there's all this just finicky placing of things to make it look gorgeous to passers by but annoying a little bit to you the player okay yeah however i think the game play here and the modifications that have been done to the gameplay from that original edition are worth kind of dealing with this what's funny about it is this is supposed to be the selling point yeah that's good i'm talking about it like oh you know i'll put up with a garbage edition to play a good game no no this is supposed to be the the awesome part of this whole package it's kind of annoying it's almost it's again too much right i need an engineering degree and putty and whatever to put this whole thing on the table i don't need it to support mice life you know what i mean it's just a it's just a game yeah um but it's worth it it's worth it i think it's a fantastic game i really enjoy it and uh you know passersby will enjoy it too so that's my number eight love this game huh okay first of all chris has asked me to mention that i'm not sick i just lost my voice and it's coming back i'm working hard on bringing it back i used to lose it once a year um oh i got z's mug that's he likes which i felt bad about after i bought this for myself i thought i should have bought it for z why thank you well i can see the scheme rising off that yeah come on now goldilocks really she did say it was true thank you thunderstone quest is my number eight this one's even more set up than marvel legendary but it's even more of a payoff um but it's even more of a setup if you do epic thunderstone quest so if you pull my copy from the library here it's not thunderstone question you can't even play thunderstone quest you have to play the epic version which has a little bit of every card in it and that's more work to go in there count out the things separate them put it together unless you bought they did have a kickstarter special box you could buy that was like especially for that yeah you might not be able to find that also you take those extra cards and you throw them away which i did do you don't you won't go back this is the way you play this is the way you play it you recycle them this feels like a dungeon crawl mixed with a deck builder now that's a good combo that's why it's my number eight thunderstone quest quest i like it [Music] [Laughter] [Music] cult of the new i'm cult of the new my number seven is sleeping gods folks sleeping guys you were mocking yourself with yourself yeah yeah yeah i'm i'm leaning in to you what was your night what was your number eight my number eight was actually an accurate that's not that new number nine nine was done at peacemakers not that new hadrian's wall is relatively new yeah it's two from this year two out of four let's not get caught up in the details yeah is a big epic sandbox game a campaign style game that takes there's look your table i don't care what kind of table you have you could be sitting at the knights of the round table table it's going to be filled with stuff there's a lot of components there's a time investment time investment and and and you know you're marking things down you're writing things down there's a lot of time and energy that goes into playing this game sure but man the payoff yeah i mean it's fantastic you have to play through the whole game you really do it's not that could be like several days if you assume you break it up i mean it might be like a you know campaign sure but i'm saying there's a lot of games like i used to play dissent and there were several descent campaigns that we never finished right but i still loved it right here i would not be happy unless i finished this is a game that you need to you need to play through it and the thing is once you've played through it you haven't played through it you've just finished that mission that voyage you went on sure you do play through a game what i'm saying is it's not one of those games where you finish the campaign and then you put the box away or you give it to somebody else i mean you could play many many campaigns of sleeping guys you find different stuff you just go in different directions you know uh just a fantastic game i know that people have been annoyed when we've mentioned this game a lot of lists because it wasn't available but it is now becoming much more available to people so if it is of interest to you i highly recommend you check it out it is a game that is very worth the effort you're going to put in time and effort and setup wise uh and if you do play it over multiple sessions you they have a save system but there's an effort to that too they've tried to make it as manageable as possible but there's still an investment in getting everything put away and put back out but it's worth it it's worth it in this case so sleeping god's my number seven there's another good parameter if the game has a save system yeah it's like is that worth the effort you know what i mean 100 there's a few games that do that now all right my number seven is uh a deduction game called the search for planet x oh search your planet x is a deduction game like i said that uses an app and wrapping your head around what's happening in the game can be a little bit tricky i like it right it's a bit weird it's a bit weird but man that first play i had of it there was a lot of not even trying to understand just reading the rule boy but just sort of understanding what exactly am i supposed to be doing yes you know uh once that clicks and that might take a bit but it'll it'll be the same that that one game i think like once that clicks this game is excellent i think it is such a good out-of-the-box deduction game yeah this is not one that feels like by the numbers like you know remove a piece and find that thing because the answer is sort of made up for you i just find that really interesting i see what you're saying um yeah it's like i mean it is in a box i don't know what confused you no you said out of the box as opposed to what other kind of deduction games that are like like you need to you need to get more more pieces to make them better no like the in the box would be clue remove a piece of information i ask you for something do you have this thing no okay i take a note that that's in the box okay okay outside of the box is something that where conditions cascade and this cannot be next to this it's like that puzzle that logic puzzle it's yeah like this camping next to this kind of uh you know celestial body but this little extra body has to be within two of this other kind of celestial body which which way do you play between one and one there's an advanced very version right gosh i don't remember but it's definitely one i've played this year i wasn't gonna ask you that and this is more effort than something like cryptid oh yeah right oh yeah yeah yeah yeah actually i considered cryptid but the effort would have been not making a mistake is really the only thing that's exactly right like if you make a mistake you ruined the game right so the effort is just being attentive but this is more effort than that oh it is you you have to you have to make your brain work in a much more out of the i didn't almost set out the i was asking how it was being used i'm here to clarify correctly and to um drink a tea that's my number set okay so one of the things that if you did not game in the 90s or the early aughts you did not get the pleasure of pay stubs oh yeah not paid for german games pay ups oh stubs that's what i thought what are you talking about paste ups yes like for german games yeah pasting uh english language on german cards when i played wallenstein for the first time i there was like 20 cards and i was like fine i'll do just those yeah yeah this game i put on the list because i think you should paste it up and that's trump fabric oh what an interesting choice yeah see this one's different right yeah i like trump fabric but it uses this is a theme thing for you it is a theme thing for me but look i know every time i say this there's always one person like you don't know all those movies from the 1920s no old man um i know like three of them so they have lots of pay stubs paste ups um sheets on board game geek that you can print out and i did although i did it like yeah you need to know you got to do it again yeah yeah because yeah it's going to be like will smith and you know he's still a star but not like he used to be you know yeah justin to kelly is in there [Laughter] there's a one negative star actress or actor who doesn't matter it's paris hilton oh my gosh yeah but it's still better than the original but it's worth it because it makes it it's a good game if it's a really solid game but i think without that cool theme it's just not worth it to me as much yeah it's themed about making movies and you didn't like the dream factory parody one it's okay yeah i'd rather just say it and i get that you can't but you can't do it that one had sort of silly just slightly off names from the real people's names like it was clearly at the time of the quartz in there that kind of thing yeah and ryder was in the game even he was a director he was like the one star director a minus one director no no he's in my copy oh he's also in dream factory oh yeah yeah i know i leave that he could be the one director and he's like ha joke and i'm like indeed um so anyway hatred man i won't stand please i was laughing at his joke gotcha this is a good choice because it this is an interesting way to approach this list well thank you no that's not what i yeah i did not think of this at all i stuck to the topic but that's you know that's nice too oh no that's nice too sure yesterday i was quiet patronizing decision discussion earlier yeah i was quiet we heard weeping out in the library z was like i can't make my list i had a really hard time coming up with this list i was walking around aimlessly looking at games i'm like no do i like it enough is it worth the effort no yeah it's really hard oh all right so that's my number i'm trying to do what chris is saying here big get your hat on my head yeah there we go [Music] all right so one of the uh kind of parameters that i used in this list is that there's a particular style of game that i think is particularly difficult to teach and learn and that is games that have a large amount of asymmetry going on because you teach a core rule set but then each player has something that kind of adjusts that and everyone kind of needs to know what their how theirs works and so my number six is spirit island which is i thought you were heading out in the oath thing there we're still early in the list this is my number six number six uh spirit island is not only uh effort in that you have each spirit has its own asymmetrical powers that plays differently and you have your own deck of cards which it really helps you to know how they work but it's a very complex cooperative game in general i agree this is one of the most complex uh cooperative games out there in my opinion it does have kind of a walk a beginner mode to learn the game a bit where the cards are like yeah specific order yeah they they recommend yeah and that helps but this is still a game that you're gonna have to to have a learning curve there is a learning curve here yes and it is absolutely worth it it it this is such and i know that you don't love this game as much but but i think this is a fantastic fantastic cooperative game um and i do think that it's worth the effort to to learn how the different spirits work and what their strengths and weaknesses are and a particular spirit might seem very very weak and you're like how are you supposed to win with this spirit it's all kind of passive but learning how they might interact with the other ones all of those kind of nuances and subtleties that come through playing it just kind of add to the experience of the game and so i really really think that spirit island is a special design and it's one that takes effort you know if someone wants me to teach this to them i'm going to be happy to do it but i'm going to let them know look buckle in we're going to be here a while you know you got to be ready to to kind of sit through it so that's my number six i agree with this one yeah so far your list is very good no except for that dawn of peacemakers okay that's fine your list is also good i don't know okay don't no retconning that um you know what this makes me realize mike as you mentioned the where everyone is different like really different not like a little special power sure sure i think that's where i draw the line i think i don't like games i like the now the word went away everybody being different is asymmetry yes i like asymmetry in games i have my own unique power or i do something slightly different i think games where everyone does something different has their own station has their own whatever i don't think i've liked one of them yet except two player two players not sure the same right like raptor two player doesn't count almost all right but like merchants cove how was the two player game of merchants cove different than playing raptor in the sense that you are playing oh raptor's fine actually i think no i first of all you're awake i think rather asymmetric than merchants ah i disagree i think it's that idea of like now we have to sit here and teach for five minutes or ten just for you that's i think what does it for me okay you know what i still have games like that that i don't like i've realized now like i just had an epiphany we played space cadets mm-hmm and we taught everybody we played for like five minutes and we got the cards like switch positions oh that would drive me nice yeah z was ready to flip the table no yeah no no no no no no way so all right well this is very enlightening so far mike i appreciate it tiffany yes uh my number six is detective city of angels detective city of angels is a good call yeah yeah yeah and uh there's a certain sort of procedural nature to running the game and you really should have someone who's running the game as the chisel i.e the the person you know yeah and i said in the world yeah but you can't do that if you're just getting it for the future for the first time you can if you immediately like quickly spoil the case for yourself ah right so there's a lot of effort in a few different ways but one of them is if you are the chisel you know everything like it's a whodunit okay so it's an investigation game you as the chisel the dm i'll call it um need to know the whodunit and why and where good clues are so that you can use that information to mislead some players or not you need to have the case spoiled for yourself so ideally and the rule book does say this you should be someone who played not as the chisel just played through a case and then you can dm it for a different group yeah now knowing that stuff obviously someone has to be first you know what i mean but um and then again also being that role running the game is can be very detailed there's a lot of sort of minutia you need to be mindful of i still think it's worth it this is one of the best it's not really deduction is it it's kind of investigative yeah uh games out there where you are questioning characters you're traveling around the board and strong-arming people for their cash you're not the most squeaky clean gum shoes in this game um yeah not at all have you ever played that video game la noir i have not played this reminds me of that a lot yeah yeah yeah so i i still think this is worth the effort it's it's got a good call it's crunchy it's gonna take some sort of getting used to even but it's worth it very good game detective city of angels my number six spot there are some companies where almost every game they make could be on this list so you already said anachrony from minecraft is one of those companies a lot of their games are trash um orange nebula are you about to talk about orange games two games no because i think vindication is actually not that hard no it's really not that hard to teach okay i'm talking about awakened realms yes yes because well now they have awakened realms light but there are other games yes so i only put one on my list which one well i already saw it right but but i wouldn't i i i did not see it i could get this to be on youtube i guess uh the one with the weird white hole in the cupboard yes yes this i expected this ether film feather fields i expected that well i thought about technic grail i considered both actually although tanic grail has a much better tutorial system yeah i mean it really walks you through it but i played ether fields more yes and i'm more fascinated well have i it doesn't matter i like this one better but it is a lot of work yes to learn this game there is a lot going on and you could say that for all of the waking realms games and you play it with the quote-unquote variant now you have always played it that way it never was a variant before and now it is what variant where you kind of skip some chapters yeah yeah yeah you're right you're right but even still i've played with those for a long time there is a lot of work yes and but you know what it's so much fun there's so much involved go watch our live playthrough of it now i'll be honest not every dream turns out as spectacular as that one did but they're very fun and also the guy designed this needs to visit psychiatrists his dreaming this is another one where i feel like the experience you get is so unlike others that it's worth that effort you put in you know and that's part of the effort is the fact that it is such a weird thing it is yeah like you're getting into the game you have to understand or accept all this weird stuff very quickly to sort of start getting up to speed we're in a dream yes it's dark there's some weird thing coming after you or something accept it so we can start learning right and then it is a dream world means that you can't even have the structure of things that you can like that you can ground yourself yeah there's nothing to hook yourself into anything this is a true and absolutely true right yeah yeah that's a weird one there you go either fields all right my number five is a game that i'm supposed to be teaching to you at least and maybe to you as well at some point i don't know um and i think you both have been teaching me i'm supposed to be teaching it to you guys at some point thomas silcom found it that has never happened to him no one teaches vassals it's a game that you know i just told them we do have it in the library i now allow z to teach me games uh in the library games i need to play it's there's a new tea game but you're not going to teach me that no shouldn't teach anybody 1800 you already mentioned i learned go home already it's not it's not as new as any of those games then i'm not playing it okay that's true that's true you are cult of the new time my number five is pax premiere second edition oh yeah i keep putting this off yes because it's intimidating it's not super intimidating well no yeah it may not be the reason why you're not playing i don't know we play it by the time we play it we'll be like oh it's so easy mike because you've built it up so much no no go online i'm not the only one who builds this up this game is one that look the core like it's like a lot of these types of games the core rules themselves are not necessarily the most complex it's just that this is another game that doesn't have as many touch points it looks so easy i know picture so when you look at something like that when you're placing you're placing pieces on a board right you expect that those are my pieces yeah okay well at that point okay so when you're you're yellow you put that yellow piece on the board that's fine then later in the game you might decide you're not yellow anymore oh dumb i like playing yellow so that's the thing it's one of those games that the actual rules it's mostly card based and so you've got a bit of a tableau but you can't you can't get too uh attached to the cards in front of you because they may not last long you might switch alliances you might have cards that that get removed a lot of the things that you kind of take for granted in modern euro style games yeah those rules don't apply in in pax premier second edition it changes things it's it's a design that is unique very unique and as such it's a bit harder to learn and i think he's trying to talk us out of no no him teaching it no no i'm looking forward to teaching you guys the game i want to well over a year i've been waiting for you guys to tell me let's play the game no and it's also a game that has a lot of cards and the cards have different things on them so you have to kind of get comfortable with how the cards work it's not look you guys are heavier than say lost cities yes you guys have both played heavier games than packs premiere second edition but it is one of those games where you're you've played oath right it's the same designer oh it is yes oh okay okay you see how it's just like yeah it's a card game okay but it doesn't do things the exact same way you're used to that person's brain is it's kind of wired differently when it comes to games approaches game design differently right and for some what if i played if it was rue yes john's company which i was tricked into playing okay the guy was like oh this was not that long of a game sure lies yeah you got got i got guy yes yeah so anyway i think this is a a very very good game it's very much worth the effort but yeah it's not easy to teach and it's not easy to learn but it's worth it it's a really really i think special design and uh that's why it's my number five pax premiere second edition i like it i might try that mike all right my number five is kind of a crossover with uh tom this is legendary encounters alien or predator honestly for the same reason absolutely everything you say everything you've said already good luck sorting this thing out when you first get it don't you dare drop this box um and get things jumbled up and then just there's so many modes also in this one and the predator and you can combine them no this is one i used to own i used them both actually i like the game it's a neat game i i like what's going on but i eventually got rid of it and i had them combined too like i just put them in one box was great because of that very reason it's just it doesn't come out for me you know what i mean i'm weak-willed but if you are a strong-willed gamer i think it is worth the effort because the game is neat and if you love the theme predator or aliens um you're gonna enjoy this game you know it's it's very engaging and many ways to explore what's in there but boy it's trying it's a little bit of a trying experience so yeah legendary encounters alien predator whichever number five all right my number five is not a particularly difficult game to learn but a lot of people are intimidated by it because of the iconography and it's if you haven't played a game very similar to which is only a few it's it's hard to grog and that's race for the galaxy oh yeah that's a good call actually i've taught this game many times oh andy nice super chat thank you very much thank you andy wow merry christmas yes anyway uh race for the galaxy there's a lot i saw someone earlier bet 100 bucks i don't know who they were betting against that i would mention this congrats you won money you win from somebody um listen this game is a hard rollover do you first time you play people every time i teach you people go i don't know what's going on yeah i'm just playing cards but if you put that effort in this is where it's worth the effort it's not the effort of learning the game it's the effort of understanding it which is a little bit different i mean some people would put chess in the list yeah sure i did not but chess is an easy game to learn but it's a hard game to master yeah yes in fact some people might say five minutes to learn a lifetime to master except that that's uh you know othello but uh i don't think is that othello that's a shakespeare said that we're such a dork but kudos um yeah yeah yeah anyway it's worth learning this game i've met many people who played it once and said it's too random there's too much luck involved with it it's too late it's too quick it's too quick to have those arguments no i agree tom yes yeah and go play the online ai that's what yeah that's true that's what i was like it's like the name i thought i was decent at this game and yeah around the block to be fair you cannot trust that the deck is random in that yeah that's true i do trust it i know but that argument could be made whereas if i just shuffle it i can put it on the table you can't question that you can shuffle it yourself if you're a brian drake question oh brian drake should not be trusted around anything you shouldn't be around cards agreed yeah yeah no this is a good spot i agree we love you brian drake all right my number five race for the galaxy all right my number four is on this list solely because of setup and the fact that it is a bit of a campaign game but each individual game is so short that you're spending almost as much time searching for tiles and pieces as you are playing the game but i love the game so my number four is arcadia quest um this is a game that um you think so yes yes because they're usually what three games in a campaign uh well it depends i guess you can go three to five right and there are some three game campaigns aren't there oh maybe it's something weird oh yeah yeah so yeah okay so so five um technically six but all right well oh because yeah because you can have a boss thing the the amount of time that you have to kind of go through and find it yeah i know i get it yeah there we go put the glasses on professor um actually you have to get the different monsters out you have to get the right cards for the right monsters you got to find the tiles you got to build the rooms you got to put the tokens out you got to build your team and then in between the scenarios you're going to buy things and that it takes a lot of time for what is essentially a dice chucker but man it's such a fun one it really is it is just such a silly fun game i feel like it gets the tone exactly right um it just i don't know this is a game i have nostalgia for i i understand that maybe there are designs that have come around since then that maybe do the dice chucking thing better but like even you like starcadia quest more i still like the original arcadia quest this is the one that i still have kind of those things yeah yeah this is still the one that i want to play i got it right you did get it right i'm impressed so it takes a bit of time to get it up and get it going and play through but i think it's still worth it i still like arcadia quest i still want to play it that's my number four yeah i think i fall on the wrong side of that of that equation you put forth where the game does feel too slight and random like for the effort for me got it yeah no i get that i i totally see where some people feel away it just doesn't for me right uh thank you to the rock rock we can smell your super chat yeah and also thank you to eric silva my word happy new year to you thank you very much brown oh everybody's being so nice guys oh fantastic my voice keep making those uh shakespeare jokes yes it's amazing um all right where are we we are number four sir my number four is uh claustrophobia 1643 and this one is on the list for a few reasons can't read the title that's one of them certainly the game is quite large it takes up a lot of room it's made up by tiles that are big old chunky tiles there are a lot of icons there's a lot of iconography and sort of figuring out and timing and all this and at the end of all that it's for only two people yeah you know what i mean you have to figure all this out take up all this room on the table um understand what's going on and it's just for two yet it is one of my favorite two player games ever i think it's a fantastic quick um very much a sort of punch to the gut kind of game for me it's one that wastes no time you will play this game in about as i i mean you can do it in 45 minutes sometimes i don't say like anywhere between that and 90 minutes let's say and it just immediately is tense and exciting and uh threatening and it's one versus one so one player is sort of the hunter and the other one is the humans trying to accomplish something sometimes just get out you know find an exit and get out of these catacombs but i really i really think it's worth it it's uh tremendous looking it's a you know just attractive and uh it feels epic i don't often call games epic but this one has that feeling for me so i i think uh claustrophobia 1643 here is an epic game and warns even though just for two players going through all that stuff so my number four pick my number four pick checks two boxes the difficulty of learning checks mix then i like checks makes as chris yee walked into the room somehow this is ridiculous yes but it also checks the box of you need to play it multiple times to get good at it because you actually have to know the game oh i what is it twilight struggle it is okay did you see it again because i feel like that's happening i did not see it again but when you said you have to know the decks really do yeah you have to play this twice and if you play against someone who's played the game before you will get destroyed also when you first play they're like you can control you can play a card and put area control out where anywhere here oh but where should i go it depends on the card you have in your hand wow wow yeah yeah yeah it does not handhold you at all it doesn't but once you know how to play it it is on point yeah it is fantastic a tremendous game and it's very similar to war the ring in this way but i think this one rewards the effort even more but also requires more effort yeah i i've played this but you're you're right in the sense that i've not played it enough to where i feel competent at it i feel like i'm just like playing cards and doing the best i can but i feel like if you did have two players that had equal knowledge of the cards it would be just a great experience so there you go my number four [Music] all right my number three is on the list for much the same reason that my number four was which is that it's a lot of setup for a relatively quick game that has a lot of dice chucking elements to it is that the way this game works what's that this list you're saying it's they're worth the effort yes that's what i'm saying that but this is the reason the effort is in mostly the setup for this game okay what is it it's vengeance yeah oh vengeance yeah speaking remember this game because this is a game where you are kind of building these dens you know the idea is that this is one of those right it's one of these revenge movies you know you get wrong at the beginning of the game it's called the wronging where you find out who has done bad things to you and then the rest of the game is you are going into these kind of crooks dens and trying to to defeat them and defeat their bosses and that is built up by putting out these tiles getting tons of minis that really honestly have no purpose other than their minis 100 they could have been tokens but if you really want to get into the thematic immersion of it the minis kind of help in in my opinion i know you don't agree with the telepart and they should not be yeah okay get them painted yeah you can get it painted or what have you but the setup is is is arduous there's no question about it but this is a game i do and i played this one this year too i keep coming back to because it just doesn't feel like any other game i've played and again much of it is because i think they do such a great job of thematic integration of this i just love this idea of you have a montage uh portion of the game where it's like those you know you're building yourself up you're you know you're training you're getting skills and then you're going into these dens and that becomes a dice puzzle game which i love right i love diced puzzle games and so each of those dens are essentially a dice puzzle game yeah but it takes a long time to set it up and you got to get all the minis out and you got to separate the cards and which dens am i going to be fighting and which gangs am i going to be going against but it's worth it to me because i keep coming back to it i keep it i've had it for many many years i've had many chances to call it many chances to get rid of it one of my favorite covers imagining the story yeah yeah this is a very good pick for this list i will say it's i mean it just so fits on the list yeah because you're right there are so many things that really did not need to be there and if you are okay with it and you are you might even find they add to the experience then it's worth it yeah but yeah man this felt like uh you know sometimes you feel a little game and you're like man this is like a big game in a little box right this is a little game in a big big box and they are coming out now with a roll and right version of it so yeah so i wonder if that's gonna be the one that's finally the size of the game for me you know we'll see yeah as long as they can keep that thematic element going i'll be i'll be interested but but yeah i really like vengeance it's a it's again another one of those games i seem to kind of champion every song because not only people talk about it yeah yeah that's true uh okay where are we at here we go uh my number three is uh a legacy game that i find to be the more obtuse of the pandemic series that's two of course yep legacy season two uh is weird it is it's kind of and i'm not gonna spoil anything in case you still want to play it it's just sort of a bit backwards and it's in its ideology there's some game to game tracking that you need to deal with i can't believe we're uh showing a picture okay the picture's legit is a picture is just uh that's that's initial setup mostly okay well i did not put a picture in there that somebody else did that's not a spoiler i'm going to go ahead and say that uh that was not my fault it's not a spoiler please uh can you zoom in target your emails to uh chrissy anyway no i think again it's just sort of you have to stick with the same group there's all the things that come with a legacy game anyway yeah yeah but if you know pandemic this one will challenge you in different ways and therefore the effort is greater i think but very much worth it very interesting captivating game uh it stands out for me thematically mechanically from pretty much all the other legacy games and you're probably not saying my favorite i'm saying it stands out and you probably need to keep the same group that's a that's a part of it yeah yeah so there you go season two do not show that picture again chrissy is defending himself i got chris's bag there anyway all right my number three is on the list for a lot of reasons it's a great game one of the reasons is the effort is finding you someone to teach you the game because i would say 90 to 99 of the people who play this game you don't want to learn it from them i'm probably for a lot yeah it's especially true for this game okay um i have no idea where you're going with this one this is magic the gathering oh yeah stomp fantastic logic that's a good point it's true though right it is very true that guy was like hey you want to learn you're like no yeah yeah yeah that person is probably just going to destroy make it a great experience but i'll tell you what if you want to see a good experience watch z teach mike how to play this yeah earlier this year he did a really good job he also crushed me no it was actually very close i don't remember no it was it was a competitive enough game yeah yeah here's the thing i think magic is a very good game but it's overwhelming so intimidating the rule books even for you get like some starter decks now whatever and they only give you some of the rules because they just assume someone's going to teach it to you very true which i really dislike wizards that's a stupid thing to do there should be a very basic book i agree 100 um and then you know yet like the people at the shop will gladly teach you by destroying you yes yeah now you might find a good teacher and there are but that's part of the effort but also it just feels like there's a million things and there is a million things although you don't need to know all of them you don't need to learn it you just need to play there a little bit if you can magic's a really fun game i'm not even talking about the effort of the collectibility and the price yeah i like magic just going out buying a couple decks it's the same cost as a board game yeah and it's a really solid board game you buy any two starter decks from in the last decade from the same set they almost always work really well against each other they're very well balanced they feel thematic they're interesting so that's not it you don't you you don't have to get caught up in the collectibility i don't um right except for that quick short lord of the rings not like i'm a dnd one yeah caught me real quickly and i was like get your hand back yeah yeah they almost got you yeah um but it's worth it because it's a really solid game yes there's a reason millions of people play it you know collectibility and all that aside but i think it's worth it it's very intimidating that's why it's on the list yeah that's a good pick you got to go at your own pace i really thought this would be on your list no no um it's a good pick i just didn't think of it i will maybe would have put it on the list so i also want to comment said netrunner but i'm not sure for me that netrunner is worth the effort yeah i like it but i feel like the effort is not as good as the game if that makes sense i don't know how to explain it i don't know it's comparable to magic if you're all the same traps that we just thought magic i can be like i can teach you some basic rules in a few moments netrunner there's a lot more going on you know what you're probably right also you can't watch what i do in that runner because you're doing something different because it's very asymmetrical something you said you hate it yeah yeah [Music] you know another thing about magic that can be intimidating to new players are unique keywords and things along those lines my number two has a similar issue lots of keywords lots of specialized vocabulary it also has android runner no it also has a long setup it's also very difficult to teach and learn because of those keywords and it's a relatively complex game lots of keywords you have played this i taught you is it reason yes i should have asked that's on your list it's recent ish i mean it's not this year what's a game with a lot of weird keywords lots of keywords i don't know yeah you could have gone with two guesses it's from chip theory games which weighted it oh crossfire cloud spire is my number two i could have actually said too many bones but i and they're both worth the effort but i think clouds fire is a greater effort did it feel like i think cloud spire for me is really worth mike's effort yeah yeah yeah right he taught me the game and i was like i'm glad you did that part right because i was so caught up in my faction alone correct it's also asymmetric which is on top of it so yeah look it's a beast there's a lot going on a whole lot going on but man this is a cool game it's really cool if you like this style of game which is kind of like moba-esque tower defense individual player powers units that you get to build your unit stack and they all do different things and you have to kind of see what are they doing and act accordingly you have to be able to think uh strategically and tactically this game is fantastic but man is it an effort it is an effort because you get the core rules down which is significant and then you have to learn your keywords because each faction has their own keywords and you eat you get a double-sided player aid which is you know three-point font yeah which has all of these new keywords right that are attached to your units which are represented by poker ships so um but it's worth it if you put in the time if you get to the point where you're not spending more time kind of going through the mental energy of how does this work and you're spending that same amount of time in how can i be successful that payoff someone already said payoff is my my keyword here it's true i keep using it but it's true that's what this list is about to me right right is there it's a list of about his payoff worth it worth the for these games and this this one is for me and again i agree with that tom for some people it won't be you know this is very much a lifestyle game and i think those types of games also fit on this list very well this is a lifestyle game for me it's worth it for you it might not be but but i really think cloudspar is terrific a lot of work though a lot of work monica says double double double-sided that's correct nice call out monica are shooting marbles on this list i know all right my number two is a crossover with uh mike oh this is definitely not cloud spire no oh sleeping gods yes yes oh okay i was like what sleeping gods you've already put it very well it's a lot you make sure you have space make sure you can leave it set up yeah um walk away but it's worth it it's a great story i took it down and put it back up did you it was something i loved it i left it alone last time we played it was like you know it took 13 hours or something just just left it uh jumped back in would go i would go and eat something finish eating jump back it like take breaks like that it was a campaign by you know in all its definitions but um yeah it's worth it it's fantastic great story great story great artwork that's it yeah that's my number two all right thanks fancy filmmaker thank you all right my number two was on the list we talked about setup being one of the things this is my favorite game with the longest setup oh mahave no it's not that long of a setup not the way i have it now oh okay i was not on youtube escape hero escape oh i should have thought that was a that was the game i was sure would be on your list yeah so there's two things about your escape one have fun finding it um you can but you have to craigslist as your friend yeah um but secondly um it's a setup it takes a long time to set that stuff up now if you like building lego bricks you know you're fine my daughter got a couple lego things for christmas and she built them christmas day boom boom really i was like wow okay i'm glad i didn't buy one of those to give you an hour of enjoyment but that's i mean it's still a fun activity for many people but um i like it but i'm kind of like come on come on if i could snap my fingers and build it it would be done sure um but it's a really fun game but it's it's an effort to find it and to build it yeah hero escape yeah this is one i thought would be on your list [Music] hey the long guys showed up yeah that good timing all right so oftentimes when we when we talk about what lists we're going to do the first game that comes to mind ends up being my number one and that was definitely the case for this list i suspect crossover material here but go ahead really okay you no i don't think anyone's gonna pick this i did not pick it if it's what i think it is what do you think it is i think it's oath what do you think it is i'm not saying anymore okay you're close root it's rude yeah okay yeah so my number my number one is root it's not it's actually not it's the same game because i considered oath and i do think oath is not the same i do think it also oath is worth the effort however not as much as ruth rude is i mean this is a game that i feel like it is such a special design it really is it's it's like it does so many things that i normally don't like it really is a war game i don't really tend to think about liking war games it is very obtuse um the rules are not written in a way that i that that my in a way that works for my brain right i had to reread the rule now i was thankfully i was taught this the first time i played it but that wasn't enough you know i really enjoyed the first time i played it when someone was teaching me but then when i went to play it again i felt like okay i need to read the rules again and then i need to watch a video then i need to watch the rules read the rules there is good news now now you can play the app which is the best board game app that's out there and it will teach you how to play all i really think i almost would yes if someone's like please teach me root like buy the app i don't want to buy the app yes i'll give you this app and then we'll play the game that good at teaching you the game yeah and this game is tremendous this is gonna you know this is in my my top game today i don't want to give that away because we'll be doing those soon specifically this is one of my favorite games and i feel like for many years this is going to be one of my favorite games this is a game i feel like is an evergreen i feel like this is a new classic title i feel like it is in some ways changed board games since it's come out i feel like there are a lot of games that owe a lot to root um and so this is one that that is worth the effort and tom makes a great point i was going to mention i'm glad you did if you're scared of it if you feel like no i i want to play it it looks interesting but it's too tough that app is i can't overstate how good the app is do you find yourself uh drawn away from the tabletop experience by the app no and that's the reason why it's number one and i'm also glad you asked that because i still like he handed you the card before we started yeah no i didn't i still like the interrupt this is still a game that's very interactive and it's as much about the people around the table the app is great at taking a very complex game and making it so that you can play it by yourself you play by yourself i would not play against someone else with the app right no i would not but the game of root the tabletop experience of root is as much about the people around the table as it is about what the game is doing that's another hallmark i think of cole's designs is that it's very much about you know the table jeremy says he has five bucks and said buy someone there you go buy someone rude all right you gotta get you gotta play root for your what's happening yeah yeah all right this is my number one done i'll get it and i'll play it um well going from a game that is all about the people around the table to my pick in which i usually play by myself my number one is oh nye room no i thought the shuffle is shuffling and shuffling shoveling is so painful but worth it no okay i get the logic i mean the the idea no i'm talking about arkham horror or lcd oh yeah yeah yeah yeah arkham horror a lot lots of rules lots of again the card sorting stuff we talked about in legendary you'll come across that here um positioning everything where it goes um but the story driven stuff the the way that the game manages to simulate a lot with uh just cards is is worth it to me so i think i've talked about this a lot but it's it's a great game and i think very much worth it so matt is gorgeous and i do suspect that i spoke too soon and you do have possibly a crossover with that rude pick i don't actually okay my number one i thought for sure would be on mike's list okay um now i'm worried i missed something you messed up no no no no maybe you just don't like as much as me maybe you can't hit a rock gloomhaven well it was not on my this because i don't play blue maven i played jaws of the lion and i don't think that one is more effort this is well it's still a lot of effort yeah you're right it is we walk through a lot of scenarios to get up there that's true gloom and has a lot of rules going on and it is a lot of effort for people but i think the experience is amazing i play a lot of these different games and sometimes i'll pick another game over gloomhaven um because the effort's lower sure you know like adventure tactics it's a lower level and i can put my kids right i don't think my kids want to play goom haven yet they might yeah i don't know you know but for me it's still a really solid game it's still fantastic sure it's a lot of effort going on jaws of the line makes it easier to learn but there's still that effort into playing the game there's that for that being good at the game there is right the main thing that that i think jaws align does that helps with effort is the map book which is a game changer for me yeah really i've been dragging my feet i'm playing glue maven because he said he's going to make that book for gloom that's going to be that will be a game changer that's my word i want that book for sure for sure that's a good call all right so i noticed a couple people said twilight imperium yep just nozzled on my top 10. some people say kingdom death monster incidentally before we recorded this it was spread on the table and i was i'm learning the rules for it we will get kingdom death monster played i suspect it won't be in my top ten but that could just be me that one says gross someone thought they that i would have merchants cove on my list and it's not there because i don't think it's that hard to teach or learn no that's why it's not online it's not that it's a fantastic game it's not that hard so yeah oh and someone said we should have mentioned ti4 we just did yeah it doesn't have to be on my list to make it valid right um besides what you mentioned like 200 times in the comments [Music] so yeah there's a lot of different games on list if you're watching this later on mention yours in the comments you know of course yeah or if someone else mentioned it thumb there is up a lot of people are saying mage knight uh i know that that's tonight yeah somebody else if i played game and i played google map in fact thanks be a thumbs up if you thumb up this video that helped us out a lot here's the deal so this is the last live thing we're doing here as soon as we're done here i'm going to stop talking in for a while um for probably the rest of the weekend but um the uh we have lots of top 10 lists many of them were already pre-recorded during our winter spectacular they're being posted up although there's some new stuff too like i did my top best-selling games of the years coming out this weekend and there's more stuff coming next week i can't even talk about all the stuff coming up next week but you'll see it there's some interesting some interesting stuff there's interesting coming next week also our kickstarter starts in 13 days i think january 11th so have you heard of this kickstarter z yes there's folks there are so many cool promos coming oh man there's a lot of really good stuff some of the games we talked about today have promos we have promos for like maybe two of them but anyway until next time i'm tom basil i'm z garcia i'm mike d'alessio thanks to chris and roy for putting us together we'll see you next time [Music] foreign [Music] you

Channel: The Dice Tower

Views: 177,612

Keywords: board game, board, game, dice, card game, cards, catan, monopoly, tower, dice tower, vasel, review, tom vasel, vassel, settlers, gaming, GeekUsername: TomVasel, board game review, boardgame, uno, ticket to ride, apples to apples, educational games, educational, top 10, juegosdemesa, Brettspiele, ボードゲーム, brädspel, jeuxdesociété, משחקילוח, 보드게임, deskováhra, graplanszowa, bordspel, 棋盘游戏, gioco da tavolo, desková hra, gra planszowa, настольная игра, trò chơi trên bàn cờ, jogo de tabuleiro, لعبة اللوحة

Id: I6sYSRQsoUs

Length: 74min 29sec (4469 seconds)

Published: Thu Dec 30 2021