Top 10 Most Important Games of the Decade (featuring Rahdo)

[Music] all righty well good evening everybody and welcome to Friday night dice our West 2020 all right we're gonna get going here first of all I like to introduce our guest who's gonna be our guest probably if in the future Richard or righto Hamm so was that an invite yes you hear that from Radha run that last year he did a dump 10 things tum was wrong about you're still smarting I'm sure we were I was going to do a reverse of that this year but we don't have the time that's not what he said originally he just couldn't find anything actually since we're at the end of a decade despite I don't wanna get into all that what a decade is oh god no no no no I agree with him on that's one thing we agree on because the fact of the matter is it doesn't matter I might do this for 95 you know 2025 to 2035 just the mom people's mind a decade into just this second I know so anyway that's the last time you hear us agree tonight now we're gonna talk about the top 10 influential games and I thought that might be an interesting topic I don't know how much of the same things that we have you know it's interesting because I think most of the most influential games like Catan and ticket to ride and dungeons of dragons they came out before the last decade so yeah okay we're not on this so we're gonna do this we're gonna also do it in chronological order rather than importance because it's really hard to kind of pin the importance on these because I think they're important for different reasons yeah definitely and I get what you're saying to about prior to 2010 I mean Magic the Gathering is hard to follow up for anybody as an example magic Dungeons & Dragons of Catan are the Holy Trinity of this eye those three change poor gaming for good yeah I would say we're more in a age of evolution rather than revolution but that's still exciting I still love seeing how core ideas of all and they stand on the shoulder of the Masters who have come before and that's what all this is so we're gonna see what happens there I don't know so we're just gonna go back and forth and going chronological so we will likely I assume will have crossover you want to guess how many four four mmm it should be 10 because you're six wrong so I'll go for three no way well crossover more than all right hi God start all right well I said chronological so starting in the year 2010 and I believe this will be our first crossover seven wonders nope whoa hello okay I I thought this was gonna be wow this is how it's gonna go alright well I mean we have to get some audience participation in the end because yes of course seven wonders is a hugely influential game I've granted it is not the game that introduced card drafting I'm you know obviously Stefan Feld hit it a few years earlier with Notre DOM and there were other games besides but this is the game that came out of nowhere and introduced this to a broad market and really in the ten years since how many games oh their success to you know to the groundwork that have been laid by seven wonders card drafting is such a ubiquitous system now I mean this is kind of like Kahless for for worker placement not the first game to do worker placement but the one that really put it on the map and seven wonders I am shocked I am shocked in a bit appalled it wasn't it it was in the top 20 for me Boca the reason I didn't put it in is that it's a hugely popular but this isn't necessarily about popular games there's gonna be popular ones on here I don't think drafting while it's one of my favorite mechanisms not nearly as widespread as many other mechanisms oh it's starting to happen so I'm gonna give me a laptop I need to search bgg right now it's not used as much as you might think and if I said that there's gaming made drafting popular I thought sushi go might be just as much of a push miss erection sushi go I did seriously consider it was on my short list but at the end of day I couldn't include it and some wonder so I had to give the nod plus now here's where you are gonna mock me and I imagine a lot of these people will say I've never and would never perish the thought there is another element that is more near and dear to my heart with seven wonders the fact that it was originally a three to seven player game and it literally the last second they threw in a two-player mode average two players I believe the free city is by far the best way to play the game easily and it also lays the groundwork for the kind of evolution we would be seeing in the future with otama plays solo play I think a lot of developers have taken inspiration from that lots of stretch you're attributing the rise of solo play to seven wonders I am saying it helped no no no no no I am saying it helped lay the foundation it was a popular game a lot of people loved it it opened a lot of eyes it opened a lot of doors I agree I think that seven wonders had such a terrible two-player version that they made seven wonders duel and people were like oh that's how the two-player version of it should be so on that I agree all right smart guy you have all right this may actually be on your list too because it's also from 2010 do you have any other games from 2010 you'll find out shortly all right well this one if I was putting them in order from one to ten it might be one I think it's that important and that's alien frontiers one word Kickstarter yeah yeah yeah so I mean you know alien frontiers is a good game for many other reasons and it's amazing to look back at it and what did it raise thirty five thousand something like that it was a surprising it came out of nowhere I nobody expected anything like that and it did definitely set a trend it helped it helped kickstart um you know the entire platform for us I don't know if there's a game maybe we have to go back and look at the history like a game that suddenly made Kickstarter huge right hey when alien frontiers came out off the cool idea huh yeah I hope to see more board games use it and then a few years later you and other people said Kickstarter is gonna be huge and ice we'll wait and see I can't deny I mean it's definitely the most driving force in our industry right now other than the internet itself you know Kickstarter is a big deal and alien frontiers and you know it's kind of funny because the guys who did alien frontiers now run daily magic games really small company you know they make vote kingdoms of Valeri and stuff like that but if you see them shake their hand cuz they changed the industry unless you hate Kickstarter then just still shake your hand you know they didn't invent stretch goals okay oh wow I didn't I search for that who ever know that yeah ah this one was so close to my list you did put on I gave not put on my list for reasons that will become clear in a few minutes a long story short yes a hugely important monumental moment in the industry honestly there's another game that I thought was more important in kind of the same milieu and if it wasn't a lien frontiers it would have been something else there were plenty of other games that were coming out right at the same time okay I didn't back it I backed glory to Rome glory the Rome was also a big hit around the same time around black back at this yes in our library no one's playing it with all that trouble to get one then play it on that I can definitely agree gen will teach you how I'm sure she's pleased all right what's your next one all right well I'm gonna jump forward to the year 2012 so you didn't have to wait very long because for me the more important milestone in the Kickstarter saga board games is zombicide I will accept that cuz yeah I think that's a pretty strong discuss I mean it's obvious everybody knows it it yeah alien frontiers set the table zombie side is what delivered the meal and it has defined success I mean the first one that I think the first that did over a million it's the one that has determined now we should always be putting lots of little plastic guys and if it was yeah that has basically set the overall momentum I think there are a lot of games like alien frontiers but zombicide came out of nowhere and was even more shocking so I just couldn't put them both on the list no I agree and in fact zombicide beyond that is a good one for the list because it definitely launched guillotine which helped was eventually turned it into or at least was bought by come on saman come on Eeyore not whatever you're called these days you know that company itself and the miniatures explosion like you mentioned not just that miniatures existed but if you're going back and looked at plastic miniatures before zombicide it's really sad like wow I thought these are really cool they're not you know and so whether you love or hate miniatures yeah that definitely is the case and it also was the first I'd argue was one of the first that started the expansion itis there was a there's a million things to get for it the promos for better for worse yep there's more zombicide promos than games came out that year yeah yeah that's the thing it defines Kickstarter success now and really nothing else has eclipsed tit in terms of influence in that sphere so that's number two on my list from 2012 I'm going back to 2011 okay this is not on your list cuz you're gonna put a different game in your list some reasons it's gonna be the same English equivalent here because I said machi Koro I mean how much code I said alien frontiers and then was when it started yeah said zombicide made it big yeah so now we're talking about legacy and I'm gonna say risk legacy and you'll talk about a different game in a bit don't even lie all right now risk legacy came out of nowhere and risk legacy did a lot of things it started legacy games in general which you may say well there's not that many of them and that's correct there's probably 20 or less legacy games but it's more than that there is campaign games and things are not that we're not really that big of a thing till this came out and this also helped jumpstart the name of robbed a view who people did not know a ton at this point time and it showed people that if you buy a game for the mass-market it's not always bad because this is where that was sold it also blew my mind the first time I opened a box and found delete it in it I think the statute of limitations have had you can probably talk about it now it's actually guide tell me today he said he goes around the legacy games and he said you're gonna find this in the game and I said you know that that's actually in risk legacy he said and he didn't know that he was accidentally spoiling stuff yep I seriously considered that one it was on my list for a long time but honestly coming up at 10 was very hard for me I had an easy 30 I could have sat up and talked about and I just had to make some tough cuts well that's next year we'll do 30 all right that one will come well do you have anything else 2012 where I'm moving on to 2013 oh no we're just gonna do them back and forth because I'm gonna be okay 2012 we're a long time Oh exciting yep alright well then I am going to move on I'm not gonna live in the past like you there's so many more exciting things in our future my first of two games I want to talk about in 2013 is hanami no no no no no no well first of all I am cheating because it did have officially come out in 2010 in some weird little limited way and then it got a bigger release in 2012 but in 2013 it won was it the speed or the kenner I forget it doesn't matter yeah it does because one right off the bat that means it's a huge monster hit and how it does it there's a lot of games into that won that award in our library that no one touches I'm there's more to the airport liner know who your plate venable on see today who played the Apple aunty today yeah what you did one does I remember when I won the spiel des jahres yeah because it's not that good the fact that actually for somebody raise their hand I think works against your argument quite frankly good job ray my hat's off to you but anyway aside from the fact that it was a monster hit Award winner everybody's playing it I know you personally went on record many times saying it's not even a game that's or no or was it the mind you said that about that's them but yeah but anyway to me I do think it is an important milestone in the evolution of board game design because it is a cooperative game where you have imperfect communication between players and that's a very important evolution because cooperative games by their very nature can be a bit static they lack a certain esthe because really the only way they can surprise you is just giving you a deck of random cards to draw Hanavi says no you know what that surprise can come from your teammates because we can't you and I sit and strategize out every little thing that we're about to do and then just see the plan come together that's why so many people are turned off by cooperative games because they are really exercised in math an efficiency that's impossible with a Navi your teammates who cannot just say exactly what they want you to do can only give you oblique clues and then you have to intuit and that makes you work in a much more integrated way with your teammates and it's the beginning but we have seen tons of games since then I mean it's become a very common subset of what is I think the fastest-growing genre coop games all these games um you know mysterium growing genres co-op games is it that's a question I think say they're rolling right lately I'll be talking about them very soon actually I'm gonna highly disagree on this one okay despite whatever I think a hobby doesn't matter the game itself was very popular for sure yes there's maybe one game that copied it I think the imperfect communication between people was already existing thanks to things like shadows ever Camelot and Battlestar Galactica I don't I know that's that's a very different thing I agree semi cooperative Raider game is different than a cooperative game I think Konami was fine I just don't think it had a of impact on the industry as a whole I don't think so again we'd have to go to boarding be but I'd be able to show you every year year upon year we are seeing more games that are all about imperfect munication coming up with new and different ways to do it I don't have it later on the list but I really wanted to put mysterium on as an example mysterium draws a lot is Hanavi meets Dixit as an example and that's it I'd be way that's mm yeah I gosh okay by what happens what was a bigger thing and I think anyway I didn't even consider this cuz it's wrong now let's go back to 2012 alrighty alright 2012 is still in my opinion at this point in time of the last decade the most important here so many amazing games came out that year not again that that necessary of my favorites but games that changed the industry as a whole and I think clearly Lords of Waterdeep is on that list now Lords we're deep doesn't get played as much today but hands down it brought so many people into the board game hobby from role playing they're like hey attention to dragon board game and when I first heard about it I heard then she dragged her worker placement and I rolled my eyes you know whatever and I played it was really good I enjoyed it but lots of people play that and said this is what board games are like and got into the Hobby that way that game is still in print today people still talk about it today and I don't know if there's anyone here who got into the Hobby that way but I mean I can't tell me people I talked to who said Yad Lords were deep was one of my first games a gateway game that bridged role-playing games and brought them into the Hobby yeah I completely agree that's another one on my very shortest of short list yeah it was and I mean and you say it Rafi I know for a fact it brings people in the game because at the time it came out I was still in the video game industry working full time and it was a great gateway for me to turn my fellow video game addicts you know who love fantasy who love you know never wear Knights and a million other you know fancy role-playing games well hey let's play this over lunch like and you're right it that becomes the beginning of an obsession it's a great gateway and there were plenty of other gateways prior to it but when you're talking about Catan and Carcassonne and ticket to ride none of those have the literal sex appeal of you know going out and fighting dragons and whatnot so I mean I think that's actually a really important element to I don't think you use the word literal there and if you are okay I'm taking us back off my list all right what do you okay well I'm gonna move on to 2013 again and my next one is a game that actually might be on your list now I think about because it did come out in 2012 but in 2013 it got the spiel nomination which is something that really elevated it I should probably just say what it is though rather than tell a story leading up to it I'm gonna talk about quicks yeah no yes yes yes yes I have actually because this one I mean obvious for as I'm concerned this is not the first role in right game it's not it is not by fancy oh yes yes but if you go back I I actually this is the one I research the most because I wasn't clear about this one and actually several people who I talked to recommended and I did want to I wanted to try and eyeball and find exactly when did this explosion really start it didn't start in the 50s with Yahtzee it started with quicks because if you look at the you know borghini be human search by every year how many games came out in this genre in the years leading up to clicks we were getting two or three or four every year right after it got nominated it doubled the year after that it doubled again quicks got two standalone expansions it was the game that everybody was playing it was a monster hit in large part again because of that spiel nomination and month it's after that that you see I mean it is patient zero for our modern obsession with role and rights and if you want we can go outside and I've got the data to prove it [Applause] physical I'm not talking about tennis I did you that died I don't know I've thought about this too right I thought that we're all right and I couldn't pin it to a single game I I needed help to do it quite frankly and so I actually talked to people who were really into this genre and what and they told me it was quick like no it couldn't be really I mean you know I was expecting more you know welcome to and you know the the cooler more sexy new ones but no you go back and you will actually look dad is patient zero that's when it exploded because it was a monster hit and everybody realized they're pretty quick and easy to make I'll speak in a quick and easy my next one is also from 2012 although I don't I try to remember if it was big in 2012 or not but that is love letter it's a love letter did two things one but we did did the audience just groan we're literally anyway nevermind um so love letter for that caused a very brief boom in micro games now that's died down to a manageable there's still micro games being made button shy games and other people make them and it's great for a while everyone tried to make love letter it was part of a shared universe which fell apart almost instantly and then they made 6000 versions of it but love Larry did two things one it made the micro games two it made people realize that there were games that came from Japan and not just Japan but all of Asia and a whole and you know the 90s were the year that European games came German games specifically the next decade was you know France and Italy and all those other countries and then America came into its own and then this year I thought it was when we saw Japanese games start coming in I agree with everything you just said there again on my short list here's why I kept it off the list because again I had to get it down to 10 and you say yourself micro games were kind of a bubble they were huge for a couple years and I don't think they've been any significant way change the direction of the industry they have not I mean everybody chased after that dragon for a little bit but people kind of moved on except with a few exceptions button shy and that's why I just couldn't put it on I don't think it has long lasting ripples the rolling rights gonna be a bubble to you watch three or four years they're done I'm telling you that right now it's already lasted three times as long as whatever bubble it might have been but I will say old games he keeps publishing like 80 of them no I see here cuz I'm not mocking alright alright it's just not the same if he's not in the room right I'm still pretty bored you have to direct more to me that was my pick okay you're that guy yeah there's gonna pick them yeah uh-oh I'm just gonna keep on moving forward to 2014 yeah I'm stuck I'm still in twenty five I'm excited um this is an expansion actually viticulture Tuscany okay um you know obviously there's a lot of stuff that was in there and I'm certainly not gonna talk about Jamie's attempt to make it a legacy game because that was the Blessed said about that the better I believe yeah I agree I'm actually kind of responsible for that though as it turns out because I I thought it was a stupid idea here you go Jamie where did you get that idea so there were a lot of cool things in there and you could actually point to it as one of these games not the first game that you know just gives you such a huge volume of module so throw in but they I didn't really give it for that it's one specific module it is the o-tama module I'm coming back to the fact that Tuscany is certainly not the first board game certainly not first euro game that included a really deep well thought out solo mode but it is the one that named it and giving something a name has power and it is post that now otama or automata pending on how you pronounce it which is actually the worst part of it nobody knows how to say for sure I pronounce it no you I imagine you will agree that the solo gaming is on the rise no no I agree but I would argue that it was the race for the galaxy expansion really but I had the robotic things in it Alexa I mean this was not the first one I am pointing this one out certificate again I I thought the rise of solo game is important I did want to try and find what's the game that really turned the corner and I think it's this and in large part well one it's because it was done by Morton and Morton is mr. o-tama now he runs an entire the o-tama Factory that puts it in all of Jamie's sent subsequent games and several other games as well so he out of it I don't understand anything you just said who's Morton Morton Oh Peterson I believe thank you yeah Morton Peterson is the designer developer of the Oh Thomas system which now Factory it is call his company is called otama Factory developers hire him to make solo versions of their games okay yeah and this is where he got his start and but again it's a dumb little thing but I am I shouldn't say that because I'm just giving you ammunition but you're doing giving something a name is I think really really important if it's a name that sticks that everybody uses Oh Tama is now synonymous with solo gaming every wants to know what's the o-tama in this particular game if it's sports solo and this is where it started this is where it was created and that's why viticulture Tuscany viticulture itself is a lovely working place we had some neat ideas in the to the big work or the small worker but Tuscany I think is a very a very important milestone in the evolution of our industry I don't know if that's good or bad I don't think anima is actually that used that might I see lots of games are like they have soul rules they don't use that word in them uh it's pretty okay I accept it you are my people [Applause] 2012 staying in this year because it's good all right so I look outside the bigger picture rather than just people playing by themselves but with others oh you people need to shut him down I'm calling for a boycott now that that you are out of step with the future sir the futures people playing by themselves the past and the future have you ever played a video game those are all playing by yourself bud okay I did make him for 20 years so I kind of do but that's okay oh so okay so what well one day I think about the industry as a whole and I like seeing things kept in business and so a lot of stores are in business solely because of Magic the Gathering but in the last decade many stores also had a humongous boost in sales thanks to x-wing miniatures game straight up it was a big deal it brought a lot more people in haami people who like Star Wars when it was popular hey man I'm just telling the truth here ha ha so x-wing was huge you people don't realize I think how much x-wing sold oh by far fantasy flights highest selling thing it's at a point where I think it may be twice as much as the second highest you know it was a really big seller for them it made their company huge back then and it was everywhere it was in target it was all over the place it was something that people would play and I let you fly spaceships around and shoot each other it made a miniature game popular very few miniature games really break outside the miniature crowd itself and then it kept a lot of stores in business yeah yeah I thought about that one and you know I as you're talking about it I have to like it it's like this generations magical gathering in terms of its overall impact and like I said just keeping stores alive keeping them just really um and that's all true and well I would definitely say it has a big impact from a business perspective but unlike Magic the Gathering which had a huge business impact and a design impact because it launched an entire style of game that everybody tried to copy and is you know the genesis of what we still play today from Fantasy Flight x-wing gave us a tak wing gave us the dragon wing and nobody it didn't it didn't like you know create a Renaissance of tactical miniature vehicle skirmish that's why I kept it off I don't disagree on that but I didn't say it had to be designed powerful hmm also I'm not saying it's as good as magic yeah important is magic but I thought it was important for 2012 and I agree from a business perspective that's a good call but as a former designer myself I tend for on the design impacted designers all right oh yeah actually does it happen [Laughter] don't even give me some false hope right well that was me no no that wasn't me okay yeah so I'm moving on to 2015 and this is one I was thinking we would have some overlap on I'll be surprised but you've surprised me already so keep it going let's about time stories we'll see okay I've said that's promising all right no I'll just say yes it is on my okay there we go hooray is this our first overlap yes yes I think I'm gonna wait me for different reasons let's see if we well okay um you know there are a lot of things you can talk about I love the time loop system I love you know pushing narrative melding with game play mechanisms but I think the most important thing about this game and you know how it feeds into what comes after is it sets the standard for you know what folks it's okay to buy something that you're only gonna play once and then it's gonna move on oh you know I mean when it first came out there was so much pushback what I'm gonna buy this and I'm only gonna play it once no this is ridiculous I feel to play every board game a thousand times roughly I'm wasting my money cut to a few years later and now everybody's cool with buying escape rooms everybody's cool with um well what ultimately happened to time stories is a whole another topic but I do think it introduced the idea and made people comfortable at the idea that yeah you don't have to get a hundred plays out of a game to make it a worthwhile investment and we see that now in more and more games as we move forward you know with the escape rooms with the adventure game rooms or the adventure games that are narrative driven that are basically you know choose your own adventure style board games all that traces back to the huge success of time stories and it made it okay for publishers to try sure I don't disagree I was thinking more specifically that time stories was essentially the first escape room game yes escape rooms which are very popular and do really well for those of us would love time stories back when it was fun that when you play that first module the very best part of it was solving that puzzle and you solve that puzzle and it was just an amazing moment and I said Wow and then people said hey here's a game that only does the puzzle and you were like what that's great and that really but time story's made that possible yes it's almost a sad story to see how time soars as you know progressed but we got to give it credit for what it did in 2015 all right verax I went back to you cuz that was the same thing I did 20 I did the two so okay otherwise are you out of twenty twelve finally no I just jumped ahead cuz it's time stories I came head hello Bob is gonna have some words with you I'm afraid I hate I'm glad he's dead spoilers by the way sorry folks yikes okay well then even know what happened to him it's a terrible ending don't don't get me started we we could probably do a whole hour just on time stories quite frank yeah probably maybe next year alright alright well I'm gonna go on to 2016 alright this is another one I I'm moderately confident might a major like that's nothing from 2016 I have absolutely no confidence in your ability to be discerning whatsoever I'm really surprised you didn't put mansion demand a second edition cuz I had a hard time deciding which was the game that did that yeah yes and obviously we're talking about digital app integration um it's certainly not the first I don't think you can necessarily give it to Eric Lang either with XCOM there have been other games besides that I mean there was an old version of Scotland Yard that Ravensburger did years and years and years ago but all of those games were pretty much met with resounding I refuse thuds the important thing about magic that Matt or Madison madness is it's a second edition so players were like oh you know these really suck I want to go back to the person no I don't wanna go back to the first edition this second edition is so much better it was proof it was evidence that was undeniable that digital apps can improve the quality of the game because you can do an a/b comparison and that's why I had to give the the app integration into our hobby to match Sandman to second edition no that's good I I'll take it alchemists know I had thought about this one right alchemists I think was one of the persons that did it but alchemists tries to have their cake and eat it too because it's not required you can have somebody be miserable for three hours and be a human computer sitting at the table matches a madness said no because manager man just has the app take over the role of somebody who's stuck trying to put together all those crazy puzzles and keep everything and that's was not the greatest job in the world so I got to give it even though and this is crazy i infinitely prefer the first edition oh yeah cool you dissin validated everything that's okay but I still recognize this I really liked the first better oh my gosh it's a big part of that is installed too though I played with a lot of my work buddies and we had such a blast and that while the app could do amazing things in that game it couldn't do what I could do when I was running the game for them and you know more custom mold great he's a great designer the best better than a computer I'll take that all right let's go back to 2012 2012 is an important year I already I already alluded to this a little bit with love letter but even more so than love letter machi Koro mm-hmm and machi Koro which has now been kind of forgotten in time because of space base but machi Koro what much code did is it started a furor of people going and hunting down these games in asia yeah so I remember when I first got my Chico I got a box of games really you were back from Asia by now right I mean I'm sure you have more of a inside yeah yes I was in Korea like 2010 and that was okay alright but when I got a box of games in Japan brand I play magical and I said wow this is pretty cool but I had got all these little games and they were weird games there was a game shaped like a toilet there was all kinds of weird games that came in and it was like and matcha colas wow this is this is a this could be a big game and it was alright matcha car was a pretty giant game and when this happened suddenly publishers start looking at SN and I started looking over at Asia and heading to Japan specifically but then after Japan Korea was right on the tail of that along with Taiwan and then we did in recent years we've seen Indonesia and other countries coming up and really now there when it's really funny you should see when Japan brand comes the Essen yeah publishers just like hiding in the bushes like all right I'll prick your game you don't even know what it's about I'll do it you know and that's a big deal because I also think it's important to see this kind of design because yes board games are a cross-cultural design type thing but countries tend to bring their own things you know for America brought war games were better for worse that was the thing they were really good at and did all that Jeremy brought these ideas of family and victory points Japan brought this idea of the smaller interesting weird quirkiness to this and these are all kind of combining now to make just the great games that we play now and that's why I think matcha car was good you could also argue it helped launch Panda Saurus to where they are now but I was was a little weird weren't worried about that because there's so many games I could have picked that launched a company that came out over this past decade you know I had looked at for example king of Tokyo launched yellow and you know different games like that but I think machi Koro stands there and now I'm out of 2012 hooray oh really because I've got some other 2012 on my also-ran I was kind of curious if you're just gonna stay for the rest but we can talk about that later yeah yeah yeah ok cool cool cool yeah as although I'm on a quiz you on that a little bit because you you you pulled the Asian connection you're the opening the eyes to what for a love letter and machi Koro but I think you're really giving that mostly to machi Carl right yeah I love what I was talking more about the micro games and just small games in general that because we started kind of going real big with zombicide yeah but there's also still be pulling back and saying hey small games are good you can even call a small game epic maybe yeah ok try to poke we're back we're back to 2016 and now this is the one I know you're gonna read me the riot 4 you're gonna mock me mercilessly so just get revved up are you ready you get though Europe and Regis's like alright yeah per year definitely ok it's another expansion it's oh my Goods Lonsdale in revolt right okay yes obviously no oh my goats has nothing to do with the game I'd say a nice little engine building game alexander fish or one of his early games and all that alexander fischer put out on my goods neat little almost a micro game almost but his first expansion for it introduced a bun two new cards a bunch of new characters and it didn't just say hey open up the box put all these cards in and shuffle and play it brought them to you in a storyline campaign okay and this is the from you well it's not the first game that has a storyline campaign I do believe this is where we can trace back to you know what we see last year with Maracaibo or what we see with Shai Pluto we're seeing more and more euro style games bring narrative in which is traditionally only being the purview of a Mara Thresh it's not okay thank you us alright it's always been you know the Ameri trash light oh you have all these really great dramatic stories and drives you through and you're gonna be playing the game for months or years to see it all the way through and we euro a dry dusty economic fans we have to sit on sidelines we'll just move our chips around and that's about it but long snail in revolt says no no we can actually have stories too we can have characters who you know go on adventures and when you're complete with them they get added to your deck and they become a resource for you can use in Euro style gaming and year-on-year we are seeing more and more games to it first of all it's just been Alexander Pfister it's been kind of a mission of his ever since he came up because he's doing it in literally every game he puts out and most recently Maracaibo last year which I was really close to putting on this list because I think Maracaibo is the game where but I I would have had to do it I would have had to do it fully speculatively because of course it would take five years to determine if it would actually would have the impact but I do think this introduction of story driven narrative to euro gaming is incredibly important because human beings want stories we don't want necessarily just repeated standalone sessions that have no overarching narrative the pulls us together ever since we were in caves painting on walls we have been telling each other stories and to say that euro games shouldn't have stories they should just be standalone is like going back to the early eighties and saying hey why are there these little cutscenes and miss pac-man why I just want to see the same may he's over and over and over again miss pac-man was an important step and now story is so ingrained into videogames and I do believe given time it's going to be just as much so in Euro style games my particular my jam and I think everybody when that happens because I'm getting spective here some I'm in more recent years I do believe people have to go back and look say yeah that's where it started that little tiny expansion see I agree with almost everything you said until no except for the game no no I agree that story and game is important although Maracaibo um I've watched every one down there playing through the campaign and have a lot of fun as they played just the regular game by I don't think this expansion is nothing I mean it's I'm sure it was fun and everything it didn't sell that well I don't think it had a big impact I haven't heard any designer go well that's the thing that showed me I think you're just making it all up oh that it was that game I think you're reading into it that it was that / - no I mean I when I first played that game I was absolutely blown away by it and have you go back watch my video I made a big deal of it this is the future I said I know you won't I know you don't watch the show and that's okay I spend a couple of weeks watching each one but no at the time I thought it was very very important special and I did I did a game doesn't have to be a monster seller to have an impact on the creating industry that's a day I don't think it even had an impact I think I think it does i think well like i said this is an initiative that's large being pushed by Alexander Pfister who is one of the hottest euro designers working today every one of his games does this without exception who's doing it they're like Great Western trails a good game we all agree on that there's no overarching story in that where if the number of times I've heard you complain about why do developers keep putting these overarching stories most recently in shy Pluto it is happening more and more and like I know it's happening I'm saying that it is a Japanese doing this I don't in what Maracaibo and this other one what other ones it wasn't in blackout yes it wasn't black huh but who's playing these no one is normal people who actually buy four or five games so again you are saying people normal people don't buy Hong Kong blackout that's the difference you said Oh Simon like normal people win by five games a year I agree yes I space face they don't buy Maracaibo the people buy Maracaibo are gamers right who buy 30 games a year so if you want talk about I mean obviously I'm talk about Jennifer's because that's what I'm into when I say regular people I mean regular board game geeks people who do make a game like Maracaibo which is a monster seller it's already sold out second print run it's doing big big numbers within the ride it's not doing a cool Culinaire not numbers but it's doing big numbers for a dry euro and I do believe that it is in part not entirely because it's a great game anyway but I do believe narrative driven gameplay is important it is an evolution five years from now ten years from now you are not going to be able to buy your game that does not have a campaign no way yeah in the exact same way that is not gonna have that is he will come back in ten years I also and in ten years you won't be able to buy your game that does not feature a fully functioning o-tama based solo mode either well that I might agree with you actually but these are the future old man alright I turned 50 last year by the way so it's hi I'm actually old man well I'll I'll be the one to know oh in any way no I just don't see it I don't you I think story and Euro games is a big deal and I think we're seeing more of it yeah I don't think it's gonna take over I don't think every year game's gonna have it and I would argue and there's no way we can know without doing a poll but I would argue almost everybody who plays these plays just the base game and does not go through that story you'd have to do a poll because I would argue the opposite I would argue it is the minority of sourpusses like yourself Rock I don't want all this stuff just tell me what box is to open so I can play people like having stories people like having I never I love story I love this story but I'm just saying some games don't need this story yes pac-man didn't need the story either but it was an important step when miss pac-man started putting story and that's that that miss pac-man cutscenes are the equivalent the early baby step and now you can't imagine a video game without story driven content I believe no I mean there's different kinds of games sir-sir games you just play yes you don't care about this story and other games you play for this I will grant you that I should couch everything with people talk about here's the games I like to play okay there are we agree with 2012 no oh we're shoot no we're at 2015 now what you had said time stories I have two games from 2015 and this one is a monster hit okay because I actually know that what means all right and that's code names all right hands down code names was just one of those games that blew the industry way it was a very few of those that come out that one does not come out every year even like I don't think well I was about to say 1929 I think that's not true but I don't know that any came out no one came out 2018 - but there's that most usually one or two a year code names was bigger than that to the point where now there's like five versions of it it not only kept CG in business for sure but it also said hey party games can be clever we've already seen it they could be clever would Dixit and stuff but this was one that just brought word games back into the public and as extremely popular and this one is basically on the list solely because it's just that big of a hit that it's everywhere people who aren't gamers will possibly have played code names and it's one of the few games to get that big I agree with everything you said the reason it's not on my list because I did consider it is because of a nabi to me looking at things from our design perspective code names is another example of a cooperative game that is all about imperfect communication cooperative well it is it plays a two-player game but besides you and your team it is you and your team are cooperating to try to achieve a goal it is it is functionally klarka game but more importantly it is a game where people on a team working together cooperating cannot give full information to each other I know I go back to her nabhi is the game that put that idea on the map made it popular made it exciting and it is the seed that led not just a code names but to mysterium and a dozen other game what about password then if we're gonna do that password is much more of an inspiration for code names than Hanavi okay good passwords I would say does not have the same cultural impact is wrong because I board game cultural impact nobody is talking about how passwords is changing University but her knobby open obby is a game that actually open people's eyes that made people want that kind of experience passwords did not make anybody seek that type of experience out what are you talking about it's not big now but when password was big it was big sure but I'm talking about games that have an impact on the industry in the last 10 years that have shaped the direction of design it have led to genres being successful and I do believe Hanavi predates codenames is just as impactful in terms of sales in terms of going through it okay you're right but they're both big big sales hits oh you're right you're right code names I would like yeah I like said code names was originally on my list and I had to take it off because I had to go further back and say well where is the actual origin of this what is the game that actually set our current industry on this design path it's not code names because code names owes a lot of its acceptance to her knobby Hanavi doesn't owe its acceptance to anybody huh Nobby came out of nowhere Nobby came out of nowhere no its existence of many things that was it the cooperative games in general yes yes and card games and it was it so skip-bo and and not skip oh by the Dutch blitz where you're putting cars in the same piles anyway what's your next game okay all right okay so we're moving on 2017 we only have two left this is yeah this is this is our last best hope I think do it gloom Haven yes yes yeah all right look what you've done Isaac Children's you brought us together you bridge the gap wherever you are very sighs the why you think so there's a lot of stuff I I think the two biggest ones that identified that are really unique about this game and again important in the overall ongoing and evolution one it it kind of comes back to the Kickstarter element it is what I nowadays call a kitchen sink game because Isaac threw everything in that box and more and or no publisher would have ever published it like that there was a no look you've given us 20 years worth of expansions we can release and I think it's monster success and not just it but King death monster as well but Donathan came to this c'mon there's a monster hit but I think it's more limited its impact but it's the same kind of thing then now everybody says well yeah where's our kitchen sink game where's our game that just throws everything and not just miniatures but 500 hours worth of content guaranteed so that we can show up on day one I think that's important the other thing for me is really important is that it is you know on the surface it isn't a Meritage dudes on a map tactical skirmish game but there's no dice I mean there's a randomizer with a deck but it is euro to its core it really feels like a true hybrid game all the drama all the spectacle all the excitement of an American and all the really super crunchiness and I think moving forward we will see more and more games not necessarily copy the exact mechanisms a draw to play but ok how can we meld that together how can make a really great euro experience it's super puzzly and still have all that pizazz and excitement of a very you know exciting descent style game try to go back to your first point I put on a list I think it upended the industry in many ways because a game like New Haven shouldn't be number one on BoardGameGeek and it shouldn't have sold as many copies as it did but it did and it also bypassed distribution which in the next several years you're gonna see is a bigger deal than people think alright and it sold so many copies said that again everybody copied it I had a major publisher put a Tom why do you like this game it shouldn't work and like it just does right it I don't it's a hard thing to explain and it was followed it beat seven continent to the table yeah it did but said the content it did the same thing and we're saying this happen more and more where these big giant games are being done by independent small people and they're big and they're also to me this is a big hope for the future because we were talking about this before we turn the mics on about oh as minase taking over everything who cares because the number one game of BoardGameGeek is not in as mode a game right it's from a small publisher and there's more that gonna happen the more big people come the more small independence happens and I think it's been pretty good for the industry yeah it's why our interests is so exciting I mean what other entertainment should get something like that happen you know and it's incredible and I love the game too on top of it it's also just an amazing amazing game all right so her a gloom Haven I think we have two here I'm going crazy insane 2019 okay I am shows that good 2018 I look for that year.i I will agree 2018 was a bit of but that was fine it is it didn't have a game all right what is it wingspan yep whoa wow that's that's awesome let me start I think wingspan is important for two major reasons one it brought a female designer to the limelight like we have not seen for a long time and the second thing is is it showed us that we can break away from the same old themes because on the internet all the time you're consistently seeing people writing threads that this is a stupid theme I don't know anyone likes this theme 300,000 copy says otherwise right normal cool themes that ordinary people like like I could get my parents to play this I could you know showed us to somebody who would not want to play Dungeons or dour Middle Ages games okay I know that those people love both of those and that's fine but lots of people like Birds there's an Audubon bird-watching Society my dad made me watch Birds when I was a kid I still mad about that okay but I know people like it I read books about it and I'm good I just like that themes like this are that popular I'm really pleased about yeah I agree with everything you just said it's actually drawing parallels to what you talked about earlier with water deep which is a great gateway for for fantasy geeks for videogame fanatics this is a great gateway for for your mom for your fur for normals for the muggles out there what your mom doesn't like birds no I just said it like you ever say something I'm not bringing your momma into it don't worry so I agree with everything you just said there obviously is such a huge smash hit I mean I was shocked when my wife was on Facebook not too long ago and said is this the wings family played there's an article about it in Better Homes and Gardens yeah it's a big deal oh yeah it's a big deal so I agree with all that that was one reason I put it on that and that's really kind of more of the business side but to me there's also been a very important design side to it as well I mean at first glance you might say well it's just bird game it's an engine builder it's pretty straight forward but here's the thing I think Jamie was brilliant to package this game and present it and sell it as a gateway game along the lines of a ticket to ride or a Carcassonne but it's not it is a heavier gamer geek style game I agree and it's a game I mean if you if you look at the second printing where they really leaned into the fact that look you know cuz there's like special hey don't open the whole deck just open you know these decks and let's you let us take you further through the first four or five turns of the game kind of thing they've really leans to the fact that this is a game that anybody can pick up and play but it doesn't have to be a really super elegant streamed streamlined game like kick a ride it can be a game that people start playing say oh my god this game just keeps getting deeper and deeper and I think if other publishers want to follow in Jamie's successful footsteps and of course they do they have to it's not just the fact that it's a fresh theme because there are other bird games out there they did not catch on like this beat Mott's and other ones um but nobody else that I can think of really pushed hey this is this is a game for everybody but it's a game that y'all hardcore game geeks will come back to and enjoy on a deeper level and I think that's huge the the stealth gateway game you know or the stealth gamer geek game it looks like a gateway I think we're gonna see more of the hot 210 list yeah yeah and I think that's a big part of its success too so that's why it made my list alright alright that's it that's our top ten yeah I I believe that means I own the dice tower now I'll expect those Kickstarter checks in the mail oh I can do that right now there's nothing left alrighty so what you had you said you had a couple that you wanted to totally make a third money oh I made a list of 30 I've got the whole thing right here and all of my almost rands 2012 2012 was a very big year there were a few ones that you didn't mention I'm surprised he didn't mention mice and mystics mystics really affected plaid hat games yeah I'm not sure it affected much I think mice and mystic leads to what Brian locket is doing with above and below these narrative books they did become a basis of gameplay hmm I thought that's Brian that's an interesting yeah yeah I am so I really thought long and hard about that one I did have love lair I did have machi Koro I did have Waterdeep I did have sushi go I also had suburbia almost because not there's anything super special about it's a pretty straightforward tiling game but Sim City um you know I mean there there were other SimCity no more games take off I mean I know suburbia that okay or well but it didn't we didn't see like a plethora of city building games yes we did because the suburbia though there's no I do think so because I think you have to look and say yes suburbia came out it was a respectable hit it made people say oh this is the game that makes me feel like I'm playing Sim City on my table there have been other games prior to it but that none of those really caught hold and then you wait a few years and then more of them start coming out because other developers needed time to try to catch up so that's why I wanted to give a nod to suburbia but I couldn't because I had to come up with 10 and you saw my 10 was flawless I'll let I let the judge that history will be the judge yes yeah and actually a 20-18 I III I really wanted to put down brass Birmingham as somebody agrees as another important Kickstarter milestone I think we're gonna see this more and one where we are starting to see more let's go back and get an amazing game that is ugly and make it look like the most beautiful thing you've ever seen and then let's make over a million dollars on Kickstarter I agree but I would have picked Android netrunner that was the one I thought about interesting because I took an old CC gene and gave it a you know that new life that's a good point and new everything on that regard I also consider king of Tokyo I'm surprised I fully expected to acquiesce and say yes it was an important game even though I hate it why is it on your list it's a bit a big deal because I like you too took you a lot but I it just didn't make the top 10 okay I'm terraforming Mars I considered but it's hard to say what terraforming Mars has done other than let a lot of copies that's done mad but we haven't seen a ton of copycats yeah we might as time goes by them it shows that artwork doesn't matter that much oh and you were right to assume that I was gonna call out pandemic legacy you were gonna do risk I was gonna do I didn't and you kind of mentioned it um to me I love it I think it is important but I don't think it's really made any ripples we have a half a dozen really impactful ones we have a bunch of people trying I own estate Inc lacy games are just too hard I don't think they're balls got to do a top ten like well when I get to be ten really exactly exactly yeah and I just think I mean it's just it's we're never really going to see them take off they're always going to be a nice little thing that's going on in the background so I I just couldn't say it was that we're seeing kind of an amalgamation and you use that weird expansion to talk about it but yeah in reality we're seeing campaigns getting a big deal not just in your games all kinds of games so I think that can lead back to both pandemic and risk as kind of kick-starting at people like okay maybe not legacy but maybe I could do a campaign I'm in a sense so there's like there's like I'm tired of spoilers with games it's getting really old you know is it not okay talk about this I just did a thing where we had to bleep out I was showing pictures of pandemic legacy on a video I was recording and it spoiled it because some idiot put spoiler pictures on BoardGameGeek unless that was you and which pace were glad to all right well that's the top 10 influential games of the decade I'm sure that if you're watching a video later on you will have major disagreements or agreements feel free to post those in the comments and we'll talk about it there but before we run out here we're one if anyone in the room had any questions regarding this or anything here's your chance and we're gonna repeat the question where are you going sit back down anybody will repeat the questions so the camera can show sir all right yes sir okay so we're asked about chronicles a crime where that one would be I thought about chronicles crime but if I'm gonna give Chronicles a crime I would have to go back to match the madness first that's exactly right I was one of my first thoughts I almost immediately dismissed it because of mansions of madness now I will say that chronicles crime took some dynamic stuff that we haven't seen before but time will tell I think with that yeah I don't know if QR codes are the future of the industry no but it is selling extremely well totally totally with good reason yes sir okay so the question is in regards to games and influences the industry in the way we did not like yeah specifically calling out exploiting non-gamers fans of the oatmeal exploding kittens I was so happy that I was able to go and look it up and saw the cards against humanity' came out in 2009 so I did not have to talk about it yeah you're right cuz we would have had to put that on the list exactly yeah because it definitely adds influence Dobby I can't tell you my emails I get from people like you thought cards against humanity' was bad like do you watch the show here I'll tell you what though so we exploding kittens Ben give it all the garbage we want you know good bad game it did get people to look at Kickstarter and the people made exploding kittens have hands down the best booth at conventions if you've ever been to Gen Con or Essen and seen the exploding kittens booth I I'm jealous that I didn't think of that idea they have a booth where you go in and you put in your money and you press a button and they do little skits and it's stupid and people people line up I'll stand there and watch it for a while it's extremely entertaining I may not like the game itself that much I haven't played at it read the rules that was a big sin am i playing it I did play the throw through a burrito game but um that doesn't bother me it doesn't bother me that game like that does really well I'm glad that people play games like that is a good question and I'm wracking my brain because I'm a relatively upbeat person and I'm trying hard to think of something that I really hate about the industry or any direction well I am I am on Zillow I'll head over to you then oh thank you well let me tell you now I just before I got it's weird I'm glad Kix there exists alien frontiers I'm not happy with a lot of manipulative things that happen on Kickstarter where people are trying to manipulate by the game now without that much information or my favorite specials all those early bird specials stretch goals that are already ready to go but we're hiding them on purpose and well you don't like the carnival huckster nature I really don't and that's problematic I find but I wouldn't know where to pin it on any specific game or even a specific company because lots of people do it to the point where we have to do it when I run my Kickstarter each year I make stretch goals because people just expect them it's a necessary and it's frustrating because it's just something people want to happen and you're like whoa all right it's it's there and people like excitement right and I worry and I keep saying this I'm worried that we're always talking about the cult of the future you know my most watched top ten list each year is the top upcoming games there are 1500 games downstairs right now you can play and people are like and then some publisher will show up and say here's a game no one's seen yet people you know it's like well what about these other games but that is a good question but I don't know that there's any game I thought hurts the industry that much what do we think about the recent explosion of ID games that are just fine and we were just talking about this me and Z because we're saying people always ask us what's the next modern trend in gaming and after the recent announcements at Toy Fair and such as like its IP I mean I think there was like 50 to a hundred of them that have been announced recently and you're right a lot of them are ok or good you know I'm fine with that I rather that then there be bad ones yeah I mean those are gonna appeal those are just gonna bring more people to the table and if they come in and they play a game that turns out to be fine that there's a much better shot that they'll go back to whatever is replaced Toys R Us and get something else and not only that I'm getting more jaded as time goes by I'll get new games in the mail and I'm like yeah that's pretty cool and everything but I was so excited to get kool-aid man for Funko version yeah he's been in my house for two weeks now I haven't been able to talk about it but kool-aid man is in Funko person I love that okay I am so excited that the greatest thing ever so that's my number eleven yeah I hate to say it you've literally drunk the kool-aid don't let us end on that please somebody asked a question in the back yes sir okay so the question is to clarify we're asking what is the game that pushed publishers to make games better production-wise well it's a ladder for sure but side Mexicans minions doesn't count it's a billion-dollar company making oh no I'm serious they do whatever they want they I don't think they even made money on that game that's not a fair thing I don't think that even push the industry I will tell you my choice for it cuz it was on my list from 2014 splendor a splendor is a nice enough little engine building game I firmly believe it owes all success to those wonderful poker chips and just playing with them I did and and that and I again I think from the perspective of publishing history oh my gosh look how well this did because they really splurged they didn't have to those could have been little cardboard punch-out chits and in any other game they would have been and splendor would not have been the game that it turned out to be and I think after that well let's get a zoo let's get a bunch of other ones but let's also apply that to big games as well let's which culminates now in wingspan i I think Splinter I could probably make a case for that I think it might be Days of Wonder too though that's a good idea but Days of Wonder didn't incur and nobody else was chasing after them Days of Wonder was all by themselves for years I agree so I don't know what that mean cuz now every game needs to look like days of one yeah I don't know what it was I still think I may not be signed either I don't know that's a good question I'd have to go back and look at the timeline here let's go back 2012 but it wasn't in 2012 it was after 2012 actually alien frontiers that's a pretty cool production and people like Wow Kickstarter lets you make a game look nicer so it could have been arcadia quest it could have been you know all kinds of yeah it's probably just old it's a bunch of stuff I mean yeah it's been a long time coming basically I agree just as the industry gets bigger it's gonna happen because there's more money for people to spend more they put in to devote yes no no I didn't know nothing guys that it's not a big deal breaking news no I said we don't worry that Oh asthma days taking over everything okay so the question is about the asthma Day new replacement part policy which we were also talking about before the show a lot of people are talking about it I just read an interesting thread on reddit about this where somebody said that they bought a game from asthma Dame and it was sitting on her shelf for a while they've actually opened a shrink wrap and found they were missing a sheet of counters so they contacted asthma day that's what I said contact your store so they contacted miniature Market which was the invention market said it's over 30 days old so too late out of luck they had another game where they were missing something rather so they took it back to the local store that sold it to him at a local store said we never heard of this palsy we're not switching it out so follow the dots I don't think it's gonna change anything all I know is that if it's a bad experience to me as a consumer a Byzantine one time I'm not buying another game from that company well that hurt Asmoday probably not you know but no in fact several other companies the question is that the companies filed suit several companies have very publicly said online we're not going to do that because I want to look good they're like whoa you can ask us for part you can ask us for asthma gate parts we got some in the back Jamie stankmeyer wrote about it Christmas Lake Road oh I mean there was a lot of people who talked about it Bonica will give you a part right now if you go ask him his pocket totally random pulled out of a box but something he'll take it from the library downstairs yes ma'am okay so this is a futuristic question about 2019 and 2020 games we already gave her wingspan yeah from 2019 other than a wingspan I'm not really seeing anything I mean not even tanning great any girls neat but I don't think it's there 2020 Janey Grail is a follow up of goo maven it's another thing that's loyal alright so for 2020 I mean what the wait and see um there's always things that surprise us well I'm sorry someone shouted something the crew I think the crew is cool I love the crew but the crew is definitely a follow up on the mind which I almost put on my list by the way uh yeah it was also on my first thoughts I just had to keep going back to where it started yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah let's feel winning game but the crew is trick-taking and cooperative so that's why now I I mean I think it looks neat but it's just a mixture of other stuff yeah we really can't tell to the other it's by its very nature you can anticipate these things they they're there does not be rich because I've got as many cops Ken board game rich I mean yes there definitely is misconceptions of that regard restoration games in general has been good for the Hobby for sure and bringing back games in general like I you know we talked about considering games I considered the racing one downforce and just because again they're bringing back these older games look at that but brass Birmingham is still probably the best example of that okay and I considered that one too yeah all right Wow yes okay so your question is should we be giving credit to the fans who's first started making some apps to do various tasks like shuffle the cards in Dominion and or put the space alerts CD since no one owns a CD player anymore you know online fans are always doing stuff and definitely publishers get tips from them but I would pick any of those there's a big difference between a shuffle where for Dominion and what man choose a madness does I mean I still don't know how mansion Menace does some of the stuff it does it brings the game to life in a way that I have yet to see a game be brought I mean I don't get scared at playing betrayal house on the hill mansion matters makes you feel a little spooky yeah well dark hair is that out yet oh that's a piece of garbage that's now start you talking no just like okay it's okay Tom oh it's okay it's okay it's gonna be okay Tom yes sir so the question is how easy will be to do unless Everett is over the next 10 years yeah basically are we gonna be able to come up with 10 big important my word I can make a top 10 list on anything I know I mean we not that's not true I mean there's we get ideas but yeah I love it I mean we could have I mean me and Z did a series where we went through the decades and I could do a 10 most influential games per year yeah you know just there's so many games I hear 10 per year you know 500 no no but I could have I could have and yeah I do think so I I think there's often an expectation that ok well it's the next Dominion or it's nothing and I don't think that's necessarily fair I think the the more mature our industry gets it is more about evolution rather than revolution but evolution is incredibly exciting I don't know why anybody looks at that as a second cousin I mean there's so many cool things happening every year there are tons of really cool games and sometimes they're just simple little tweaks that really blow up in a mechanism sometimes they make you think how to play games completely differently but I think they're gonna still keep coming we are such a baby industry this industry is basically at the oh it's a The Birth of a Nation stage if you were to think about in terms of cinematics we've had a few big things please put aside the cultural your racial issues but just in terms of you know a birth of a nation yet they study that in film school because it was such an important milestone in the the evolution of your games is that prehistoric hair color I think so I do I really do I think we're still I mean that's why I draw attention to pac-man we are in the pac-man stage of our industry actually on this I disagree I think we live in a golden age I think board games are here now we're not at the beginning we're in the middle of it and I would say that the decade of 90 that the decade of 2000 to 2010 was had bigger and more changes than 2010 to 2020 I would agree that I mean but that's not and that is that is the nature of it because also were teenagers now I don't know I think I I'm still looking forward to bit more exciting I think there's still a lot for where I am to is I don't think we're at the beginning I think we're in the middle of it mmm time will tell yes sir okay god it's so the question that we both deal with on a daily basis is how long before the industry gets to the point where we can't follow everything 2018 it's already happening oh yeah I know I would have had to come back to 2012 it was a very good year right now I mean but we we can't cover everything and I tried for the longest time I said okay we'll cover everything I hired the Z and Sam say cover the stuff I don't cover then I bought on other reviewers and said cover that stuff and now we just don't get to all of it we try and I and I definitely read a ton I feel like I know what's going on off the times you can't keep up so why try why nobody expects to watch every single movie that comes out every year nobody expects to read every novel that comes out every year there's a sickness among us that we feel like we have to play everything and forget about the stuff from two years ago cuz we have to play the new thing it's okay I agree this comes in a fact every year we do to dice our awards and some people like look I would love to be on the panel but I haven't played all the games from last year then nobody will ever do awards you see it's just not possible at that point in that all the time people say well did you play this game no and you know what that's it and I I it took me a while and I'd say maybe in the last couple years I've just come to peace with that there are just some things some games I'm never gonna play that even last year there are several games that Z reviewed and played and I will try to get some at some point but I'm not that's okay if I don't know I can't play all the games honestly I am so lucky that I have this built-in filter I only play games to play well the two I only play games that don't feature I mean so I can ignore 60% of the industry right now and that saved my bacon I don't know how you do it being oh yeah how all I ever did it the omnigamer it's just amazing to me so my hats off to you and say yes sir okay so this is a good question I decide what we're gonna cover you go first I just said well I know you do a little bit different way than I do oh right okay well basically publishers contact me all the time and I and they well you covered this game this game in this game I say send me the rules I I have to have read over 10,000 board game rules by this point uh and nine out of ten that they send me I read them I say no this is not gonna be a fit for us usually it's because that's easy for me to dismiss it because it does but sometimes it's like oh this is a really terrible game I still tell them oh I'm sorry is just not gonna be a good fit for us but the employer might say why it wasn't a good fit but yeah so I just say no nine times out of ten and the 10th one when it comes to it or and I have to do this this is a self-preservation thing a few years ago my wife and only gaming partner said to me one day I don't feel like playing games today oh my god the show's over III have to do something and I realized it because I used to be a little bit more laissez-faire alright I'll try anything because I'm a games alright I just love the study of it I mean I realize my gaming partner if it's not fun she's gonna tune out and and then I'll have no one to play with so I am just I'm super strict everybody says I'm way too positive that's because I do my diligence I do my homework and I just say no a lot I break a lot of hearts I mean really I do I mean because I cover a lot of Kickstarter games and I and if I do a video that helps move the needle and I know that but I have to say no because oh my gosh our games be scrapped or any other number reasons so now you know if you got one of those emails your game is garbage there is a Cleary's of code I have a very specific code I use so for us it just if it looks cool yeah and I make no apologies for that we get games all the time in the mail so I would say at dice tower come 30 games a week and that's probably accurate that's a lot right to be well over a thousand a year game show up and when they show up you open a box you're like ooh that game will probably get reviewed we open the box we go huh that game probably won't but it might and the game that looks awesome might not but and that's not fair but you should have made your game look better yeah you know and that's just the way it is and so it's it's gut feeling more than anything else it's I do I know the designer do I know the publisher do I know whatever whatever does it look interesting but not every game gets reviewed and if you see Brian drake's reviews your he gets a box for me every once in a while I'm like hey I'm gonna send you a box of fun which is a straight-up lie and Brian's like all right and he's like can I review some good games of Mike yet so you were using good games and then he reviews those and sometimes he's like hey that was a really good game you sent me I was like oh okay what about the other ones he's like well that one was a really good game on your second so that that happens and then every once while we're like you know what that games been on the show for a year and a half it's never gonna get reviewed also that companies out of business already yes sir okay so the question is is splendor kind of the engine building game or a game that got a lot of people in the engine building no race for the galaxy Dominion they're both engine building San Juan I mean dominions especially I mean people don't realize it deck builders are engine building games they're just really crappy engine so you can't rely on its am I wrong that's a little engine it never does what it's supposed to do I keep putting all the good cards in they come out all wrong sure I'm sorry mister back arena yeah but but I do actually think splendor is a great gateway to engine building because usually engine building it does require some heavy lifting it requires deeper diving you know and lexa I drew parallels to wingspan cuz wingspan is just a straight of all three engines at once try to manage all that and Jamie was brave enough to try and sell that to regular people instead of board game weeks and it worked humanik kind of as a gateway type thing though I agree now I don't I don't think splendor was that impactful in that regard I think that it just it hit paydirt but I think other other people were doing the same thing at the same time no it didn't reinvent it it's not like it's not like it's amazing the right place at the right time you think for splendor that's my thing and the poker chips yeah and it's the poker chips pull people in and then they say well yeah this is pretty nice I'd like to play another game like this I do think it has that sort of him same thing I think this I loved Emerson and he's down here so but century great great game that I think is he better than splendor but again it was very similar to stuff that's come before but this year Marvell splendor that's gonna reinvent the wheel you watch I cannot wait for those poker chips all right we'll take a couple more then we got a lot people go yes sir all right so seven wonders duel why did Ron why did rod not consider that seven wonders to players better than seven wonders duel I'll let the internet handle that Curt come at me under stool is a great great game I don't think it necessarily revolutionized dueling I mean I think it builds on the shoulder of you know cosmos is two-player line I think it's very game it's just not for us because I hated I love military in seven wonders in that it's just always just to transfer points I but suddenly they turned it into oh I'm gonna burn your place to the ground and you talk of war it's not playing that place to the ground I don't have to play a game that's all about me what happens when I push you all the way the end I know I get an instant win but along the way as I'm trying to get that instant win I do destroy your stuff okay there was no destroying stuff at least prior to Armada in seven wonders which is why seven wonders will always have a place in my heart sure uh yes ma'am yeah dude where's that on your list okay so that's an interesting thing yeah so the question is about kids games is there any of those games that made the list and you mentioned my little size what was the other one - grab my first journey here's the deal kids games are extremely fickle sales-wise I don't care how good they are like I said my little scythe was amazing I said take it very first journeys amazing both of them discount bins already I know but it's the way it is right and so I'll push them and I'll talk about them and I'll say they're great but very few kids games MYSA mystics is the closest you know because it was playable with families and there are games that work with kids Rhino hero of all things you know stuff because adults don't want to play games with kids that much they want to play their games and I guess they're not necessarily being discerning consumers sure and I just it doesn't hurt when about say Toys R Us you know it doesn't happen when you go to the store and I have all these garbage kids games that are really really cheap and that have commercials that tell how really awesome they are and so and the kids will play them just as readily as my little scythe yeah they will I my kids are the children of a vassal the dice tower and they like garbage game I am consistently I'll play a game with him and I'm like well that was a bad game and they're like my daughter's like wow that was pretty good I'm like well I won't be mentioning that in a review I apparently have no taste I will never forget I got this game about Noah's Ark way back in the day I played it with melody and Amy and it was a rollin move and now he was making I've never played a game like this where you roll the die move around the board because I brought her up right to not even see those games and then she saw it she said that was pretty cool dad can we play more of those games No so but I'm telling you it's funny people ask all the time will you review children's games more and I said dice now reviews more children's games than almost any other major review channel they are consistently the least watched thing I put out I'll still do it because I think it's important people don't care they buy garbage for their kids they really do my kids play roblox it's garbage okay there are many better games that I'm sorry but there are many oh sorry kids there are many better games out there quality wise but kids just want to have fun and they don't care about all the important things we do and so it's it's really hard to make inroads oh I'm gonna get lynched by a mob of kids I think you can take them it's okay yes okay so the question is app integration is that could that be problematic for the future to the point we're actually not interacting with each other but we're interacting with our devices no 100% agree yeah that is more of a straw man argument than anything else but like you mentioned we all put in our goggles we're not interacting that hasn't happened like the thing I love about chronicles grind people like I don't want a phone at my table and I'm like but you're actually taking the phone from that guy who always texts and you're using it for the game and he's like any like I would love to let you text but we're using your phone for this game that's better at the end of the day um we've had digital chessboard since what the 60s or the 70s people still go out and buy regular chess boards people play with real chess pieces people want to touch things as a species we are very tactile you know focus and this will never replace that this is just another component this is just a set of dice this is just some cardboard chips it can just do a few fancy things that the other ones can't that doesn't necessarily lead to a ready player one future where wall-e where we're all just in our VR goggles I mean and yeah I would always rather look at this guy's face than a VR approximation of it when we sit down to play but I I but I mean I 100% agree on it not only that video games move in that direction my kids play Mario Party in Wii Sports and and you know the the switch where they're in the same room with other people I mean I really feel like that's moving the other direction and I really think that a lot of this stuff where people don't want to bring phones table that's perfect that's it's your prerogative it's fine totally I don't mean to but a lot of it is Luddite behavior frankly and if you do that to kids and the teenagers and the Millennials you're turning them away from gaming because you're basically saying yeah the stuff you like that's garbage just call it looks like stuff that would bring you in yeah that's nice let's do it the way your grandpappy did it yeah next year they saw I was getting a free iPad no that's not Tim's out here is he all right all right one more question yes ma'am so the question is when we're paid to do a review is it obligated to be more positive than not you don't take money you don't take that filthy lucre at all well I've never paid to do a review ever in fact I did paid previews I think six years ago it was the last one I did but that was a preview and I was super clear about it but I've never taken money to do a review the only thing that we have done paid play throughs and we'll act like we're having fun which which I would say 95 percent time we are because I'm gonna have fun playing anything anyway but I won't take money for a review and I feel there's a geek list on the internet about games I've given negative reviews to but I don't want to because I want the freedom to say something about a game if it's not good or not for the longest time I was vehemently opposed to taking money for my videos because I come from the video game industry where there is a real issue with no reviews being bought and all that I mean I've seen it firsthand for years and years and years so I thought I'm above all of that and then I moved back to America and then I had to start paying for healthcare and then I realized oh well maybe I need an additional revenue source and so I have started doing Kickstarter previews I'm very very clear I label them as previews not reviews I very much wanted you to say look here's the game I'm just gonna show you - and is you know what objectively as possible but my viewers insisted demanded that I still give my personal opinion so all I can do is say hey folks I was paid to make this video I'm about to tell you what Jen and I thought of it please remember I was paid just go watch the run-through itself that's objective and here's what I think and I because of my very very strict vetting process I'm very comfortable saying exactly what I think because if it was a crap game it never would have made it to the table because I don't want to waste my wife's time and that's basically what it boils down to not only that I would say we're very fortunate in the industry I don't even have publishers trying to do that publishers will try it as for maybe a pay preview for kicks their game but I don't know I every once in a while gets a email from a publisher who doesn't know much about the industry you know how much is the cost for a review and we're like free or sometimes we'll say how much the ones I throw me off is when they say how much is a dice our award cost and you know what though that's because there are places it's especially in a toy industry where you can buy an award but no it doesn't happen now they the bigger more grandiose question which we don't have time to get into necessarily tonight is if a publisher says hi to you and is nice to you or they give you promos for your Kickstarter or whatever how does that affect you relationships relationships that's a much deeper thing and you just have to dig deep in integrity and you gotta you gotta call the shots but the only thing I can do there is stand on our work it as a viewer it's caveat emptor you have to decide whether you trust us whether we whether we warrant that and I like to think we both have done our time and yeah yeah all right well the people here want to go back and play their games and some of us want to go to bed so we want to thank everybody here we're about to turn the camera off so if you're watching on their channel thank you so much we'll see you guys next time I'm Tom Bassel bye everybody and we'll see you next time [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]

Channel: The Dice Tower

Views: 189,549

Keywords: board game, board, game, dice, card game, cards, catan, monopoly, tower, dice tower, vasel, review, tom vasel, vassel, settlers, gaming, GeekUsername: TomVasel, board game review, boardgame, uno, ticket to ride, apples to apples, educational games, educational, top 10, Rahdo Runs Trough, Richard Ham

Id: 2B3Yaj-Ytto

Length: 94min 41sec (5681 seconds)

Published: Thu Mar 05 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/1slinkydink1]

List is in chronological order, not order of importance. I tried to add a general reason why the game was added for a quick reference since it's not always clear. I should also add that I included the reason that the person stated but it wasn't always agreed upon by the co-host.

Rahdo

1. 7 Wonders - Popularizing card drafting.

2. Zombicide - First massive Kickstarter, started 'lots of plastic' trend.

3. Hanabi - First big 'imperfect info' co-op

4. Qwixx - 'Roll and write' that caused a rapid acceleration in the genre.

5. Viticulture: Tuscany - Introduction of Automa solo play

6. T.I.M.E. Stories - Board games as an experience, limited plays (akin to escape rooms)

7. Mansions of Madness: Second Edition - App integration that was vital and embraced

8. Oh My Goods: Longsdale Revolt - storytelling added to euro games

9. Gloomhaven - kitchen sink game, quickly rose to #1

10. Wingspan - Female designer, atypical/broad theme

Tom

1. Alien Frontiers - First big Kickstarter success

2. Risk Legacy - First legacy

3. Lords of Waterdeep - Good introductory game for RPG fans

4. Love Letter - Micro game trend

5. X-Wing - hugely popular, could find it everywhere, well supported

6. Machi Koro - Started trend of looking to Japan for hot games

7. T.I.M.E. Stories

8. Codenames - Massive success, appeal to those who aren't gamers.

9. Gloomhaven

10. Wingspan

[u/blarknob]

Rahdo's taste in games is the polar opposite of what I like, but his passion and enthusiasm are great.

[u/ldjarmin]

For those who keep commenting “I didn’t watch the video, but the list doesn’t make sense”...please just watch the video. While you may not agree still, they do give lengthy defenses of each choice in the video. There’s a reason why it’s 90 minutes long. The list only makes sense in the context of their arguments for the games.

[u/irrational_design]

So, these seem to be not their favorite games or the best games of the decade, but rather the ones that they think had the greatest effect on games that followed afterwards.

[u/KingMaple]

I love Rahdo, but D'HAMN :D

[u/glokz]

I think those guys summarized the decade very well,

Myself the games that changed my experience with board games and thus I can tell they were important for me:

1. Lords of waterdeep - one of the greatest board games that I could easily teach my non-gaming friends and it was always fun
2. Castles of Burgundy - Stefan Feld. This game changed my experience with board games, the game I always think I am not playing enough.
3. Eldritch Horror - this was Arkham Horror casualised, making it easier to understand and not spending whole night with the rulebook.
4. Game of Thrones 2nd ed - this game was a huge heap from hardcore warfare games and casual euro games. People are getting into personal conflicts over this one.
5. 7 wonders - one of the best casual games alongside with Catan
6. Five Tribes(with expansions) - this game brings satisfaction as no other game does and expansions highly limited possibilities of plays thus making it more dynamic game, in other words it fixed what basic game had a problem with.
7. Seasons - this was my most played online board game that I've played . This game is huge for dueling but requires dozens if not hundreds of plays to master it. I never had the box though.
8. Robinson Crusoe: Adventures on the Cursed Island - This is the best Co-Op game ever. Everything makes sense in this game, it's very hard to win (although mechanics offer dummy players like a dog which makes it possible to win). If you never tried it and you like the feeling in pandemic when you think you lose but somehow you make it through - this one is hell of a ride.
9. Sushi go - yeah this game is literally beach KING. It does not work with high winds but it's possible to trade cards safely and play it outside. One of the best portables ever.
10. Avalon / One night ultimate werewolf- yeah, that's mafia game but those two together are most powerful versions and you don't need anything else. I have never played secret hitler but based on reviews this could be here as well.

Honorable mention: Agricola, while released in 2007, I only discovered it in 2011 and it was my first board game ever. It was one of the most complicated games to master I ever tried mastering. I used to play it a lot in real life as well as online. I believe I have played over 1k matches online. For me it's like counter strike of board games.

[u/nakedmeeple]

These Tomdo videos are always fun. I used to watch both of these fellas all the time, and I like them both, even while my tastes have twisted and deviated away from theirs. I will say that I feel like Tom's list was vastly more on-point. There's a few possible omissions. Pandemic: Legacy seems like an oversight. There's also a few I would question, like the Automa? Hanabi?

[u/TomTheKeeper]

Story is a cool tool, but in the end, in games, it's a tool, not as important as the game.

Gloomhaven is so big because the story elements don't derail the experience, it's added flavor. I don't think adding story will be the evolution of euro, but rather a tumor that will grow out to be it's own niche.

[u/tilttovictory]

I can't deny the entertaining chemistry between Tom and Rahdo.

However, I think I wouldn't find Rahdo as off putting if he didn't continually conflate his arguments as a means to gain support.