Top 10 Games We've Cooled On

[Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] there's a lot of energy in the office right now there's something going on i'm tom vassell i'm z garcia mike d'alessio i'm waiting for z to finish i feel rather collected myself mike i feel calm do you feel cool no i'm not following this whatever joke you're trying to cool down he's collected cool and collected man i know i'm not working for you and your bad jokes what's happening right here that's my man i have aged overnight because i'm a grandfather now you can tell and okay so folks welcome to the dice tower we are going to be talking today about games that we've cooled on so this is a list basically we liked or really liked and all mine all these games i really liked them in fact six of my 10 have been in my top 10 in the past try to top that there mike not impossible all of mine are currently in my time they would have teddy did this top ten that i did this year yes no but so i like them less and none of them i would say i dislike now but there's been a tremendous drop for various reasons yes correct that's kind of where i'm at i don't hate any of these i apply all these almost yeah there's only one let me see only one of these that would make me vomit oh the rest i can god some of these i actually still like but they had really large drops you know like not in the top ten many of these are not even in my top 500 anymore yeah yeah my number 10 is castor oil the game my mother gave me castor oil when i was a kid watch out back up you better have a really long arm when you're feeding them that castor oil because uh you got a surprise coming comes back up no i was able to keep it down what's wrong with you a castor oil it makes you uh okay let's move on is that what we're talking about let's move on here we go this is the i don't know what's happening syrup of ipa hit number 10. my number 10 is my number 10 is a game that i still respect you know there are certain games that you're like i really respect this design i think it's you know a really brilliant design but it's just not one that i want to play anymore and i think part of it is kind of how i've changed as a gamer this is a game that i uh one of the earlier games crazy enough because it's heavy this is dominant species so i still respect this design tremendously you know and and i still love the theme which is what really drew me into this in the first place i got into this game again relatively early in my gaming uh hobby career and um when worker placement was still even kind of novel to me and i was like oh this is kind of cool and kind of the order of operations was very novel to me but now it's at a point where now you want miniatures well no no it's not even about that of course the look of it is not the best but that's not what keeps me from playing it what keeps me from playing it is a the length it's tremendously long and if i'm going to play a work replacement game it's probably not going to be one that is quite this long and also the constant kind of re-evaluation of who is dominant in a particular area that that kind of constant arithmetic that you're doing it's it's it just is not really what i tend to look for in games now but again really have a lot of respect for the design and the importance that this game still has in the hobby i think it's a very well-liked game it is it's just not one that i find myself wanting to play it's just like if someone asked me i'd be like you know i tell you probably not it's just it's too long it's too much upkeep of you know you know i didn't think of this one but this this could be in my list in a sense because i remember people ask me all the time like your review is so glowing and it was i was like amazed it was amazing but i keep coming back to the four hours you know and there's a lot going on and you could also i've learned as time goes by you could get two and a half hours in and go oh i'm not going to win yes yeah and there's other games i feel that give some i'm not gonna say many other games combined sure sure i don't want something like what's name the game the name of the game many other games give me that similar feel yeah the new one is actually i haven't played maureen the new one is better i think it's close i still love the theme and i still love the asymmetry of you know playing as a particular you know type of species but uh yeah it's just not one that i want to play much anymore unfortunately that's my number 10 dominant species my number 10 is a game i very much like it is my tent because it's the one i guess i've cooled on the least that's sort of how i arranged yeah same here um but it just basically got squeezed out by two other very similar games that will always supersede it at this point and that is imperial settlers wow the coolest coming in hot imperial settlers lives right now for me personally in this uncomfortable position between empires of the north and 51st state one retains the theme but reworked a lot of the mechanisms the other one has a really cool theme distinct from this uh setting a little you know empire setting mechanically it's it's different enough i i do think that somebody could be comfortable owning both and playing both but it does hit a lot of the same parts of my brain so i find myself i found myself i should say the more i brought this out finding flaws or having them become more glaring because i have more things to very much directly compare them sure sure so yeah i just sort of got squeezed down in between those two other games i will go for one of those two which are are superb games not to say this one isn't i just think if you have those other options especially if you owned them already which i did this is gonna this is gonna get pushed out and in fact it did get pushed up it doesn't really surprise me because it was a reworking a 51st state but then 50 first state took all the good stuff that came back yeah yeah that's a that's an interesting idea where games that kind of iterate on themselves to get pushed out you know what i mean so yeah so there you go it's my number 10 imperial settlers so i have some like classics at the beginning of the my my 10 going up there's some more modern where i was even more grandiose but this my first one was a game i played to death so that's part of the reason i cooled on it and i've changed as a gamer that's another reason i called on it and many other games do it better now but for a while this was hot hot hot and that's bang okay i really loved bang when i first came out it kind of blew my mind not just that there was two teams and hidden people but that one person was like there was a third renegade there trying to kill everybody and it took a concept i was very familiar with like to take that play cards on other people this this one for me is the closest to like i'm just not going to play it right i'm not going to play it because there are like 20 social deduction games out there now and you'd probably i don't have to yeah of course there's the dice game too but i got to give bang a lot of credence though i mean when it came out it was so neat and cool it was one of the few games that you could play when bang came out it was werewolf or bang there wasn't a lot of other options this was before resistance before all that stuff and i really liked it a lot i mean i remember this was the first game i ever played at a convention yeah my first convention origins got to and they were playing bang and i was like i know this game let's do it and it was exciting sure and a lot of good memories but it's really dropped that take that without any real recourse they added a ton of expansions to it none of which really changed the game right i think for the better so it was good but it's it's a little bit of a product of its time yeah yeah yeah and so i guess this is the course i'm gonna get to do that because i could also be like well i loved uno as a child i'm not doing that sure i'm only including games of modern era which bang is one of although it is 20 years old now it's pretty old it's from 1997 or or shouldn't [Laughter] anyway my number 10 bang [Music] my number nine is uh another game that again i still feel like it has kind of a in a place of importance uh in the hobby at least to my eye to my mind and a quick interrupt here i think there will be only one crossover period wow yeah i don't anticipate a lot of crossovers one crossover i think i'm going to have one with you tom and that's literally it i'm not that's what i think i think we have the same game i think and i think you and i might have a different one that we cross over on although i think it's only if you thought of it oh okay well wow wow no no no wow only if you were smart enough for once that's not what i'm saying there's a lot of games in the world garcia my number nine calm cool and collective that's right which one was i cool you're right i was calm you were collected my number nine is dead of winter um oh yeah this is a game that i feel like it has a it has a shelf life i guess that's the only way i can put it vindicated here no no i i understand that this game makes a makes an impression doesn't it it does and i will tell you the first maybe five to six games of this right were so good like so good um especially because i played it with the same group and so you start to kind of create little metas and stuff and yeah it just was like this was a game that was an event game we all looked forward to it we we scheduled this like we're gonna play dead of winter and we were all stoked we loved it um then over time we just found that some of the kind of magic the the the novelty of the crossroad cards kind of fades a little bit the repetitiveness the repetitiveness of what you're doing kind of comes to the fore a little bit the different scenarios all are kind of variations on a theme really for the most part i mean and again this is a game i would still play under the right circumstances but i would probably rather not play this anymore i feel like i'm done with it now if that makes sense still appreciated as a design still does some neat things but it doesn't have that wow factor that it did for me the first you know few years that i played it yeah yeah and so again dead of winter is a game that i still think the theme is great and i still think that uh it does have its charms but i think i'm done playing it at this point so that is my number nine dead of winter all right my number nine is um a game that tom and probably several others were quite surprised i liked and yes i've cooled on it a little bit this is merv the heart [Music] it was yes so he shows up and it's like smurf but we're like what happened to you why why you were locked in quarantine yeah all of a sudden he's a euro gamer i've always liked euros this is a crazy thing to say to me is the reason i've cooled on it actually it's not really even the game play last time i played this i had a good time this is one of those games and it's not a particularly expansive list but this is one of those games i dread teaching straight up dread it this is a game if somebody said how about that merv game i'd be like okay tomorrow we can play i need to go get the rule book go home study yes watch a couple videos it's just a bear to teach there's a lot of moving parts and they're interesting and i like what's going on but boy i would much rather not teach you you know it's just one of those things so yes chris what's the point chris is in a hundred percent so you gotta teach chris now crap chris and camilla he can teach him do we have one in the library i need to borrow a question read the rule books study it maybe watch a couple of videos maybe this video to remind me don't make mistakes again but have you ever watched your own video to learn to remember the rule to a game yeah me too i haven't um all right anyway merv my number nine my number nine was i believe was on the list the last time we did it that was called top 10 turkeys or something back then um this is a game that's out because i've changed as a gamer i'd no longer like these unforgiving type games and also there's like three or four games that have replaced it and that's age of steam this was in my top ten okay i really i this when i first played this it blew my mind it because it was we use this word a lot but age's theme is elegant you know there's the only so many actions i mean you look at that board that elegance personified right there i can see the species from here chef's kiss but as you play it like you're like wow every action matters everything is strategic there's there's a little bit of luck the way the cubes come out but you're just it it blows you your mind but then steam right railways tycoon i was like wow railways of the world railroad tycoon whatever i can do the same thing on a bigger map but i don't feel as stressed when i'm done right right right and some of the things like the more income you get the there's that income reduction that happens every turn and that feels like a dated mechanism at this point a little bit yeah um also the look and i know there's a new version out there and everything but this is this is i guess this is the second one on the list so there's two that i probably won't ever play this again it ran out of steam for you tom is the issue the problem you had with this one is it ran out of steam that's the problem chris is just giggling wherever he is uh but i like age of steam a lot i mean i had a lot of good plays of it there's a lot of maps for it but i feel that that's time for me is over there's a lot of other train games out there i'm yeah discovering that wide world and this is just i'm done i only played this one time and it uh the gameplay felt on rails [Applause] [Music] all right my number eight is a game that i still love the theme um and i guess the main issue i had with the game is still there and i was hoping almost for a reprint where they kind of worked on the issues that component issues that it has my number eight is ex-libris this is a game that i have been dissuaded from playing it because of component issues sure as odd as that sounds no you can see it right there the tiny tiny tiny text which is critical on these on these tiles this is a game i feel like i would play more if it was more usable and i kept thinking look this is it had a bit of buzz when it came out they'll reprint this they'll fix those very clear and well established issues no instead they'll they'll print a different game about the mystical language and a different game and so this is one that i feel like it's a missed opportunity because i don't play it because i find it a pain in the neck to play like it almost works against itself and and so i just wish this was one that they would you know maybe do something about because this game shall remain shelled it there you go that's right it stays on the shelf because it happens so it's not it's not a problem with the design it's a problem with the production and i wish it got addressed i would maybe give it another shot but it's not in my collection anymore because i didn't it isn't the dice our library but i have i hope no one asked me to teach it right yeah same thing for me i like that i thought there was a lot of interesting stuff going on but you're right usability on those tiles and that's really it it's the one issue but it's a huge issue but it's a big it's an every turn every player turn issue knowing what those abilities do it's just a worker placement game you need to know what happens when you go there right yeah i agree and they keep cycling out there's new ones that come in and they all have a different power i'll have a different thing so you're constantly having to read those tiles so it's a shame i missed opportunity it's a it's a fine game but not worth the effort at this point it's uh it's a fine print but uh that one doesn't work wow yeah it kind of does and it doesn't ship it off uh my number eight you hear your responsibility uh keep it down in here uh my number eight is uh one that i was i played a lot of it and i think uh the rules are part of the problem here but also just set up and sort of the procedural nature of the game how much there is and i have a lot of it legends of andor is what i'm talking about here [Music] legends of andor is a game i still own i still respect is a good word for this good because we keep giving you all these expansions that's right well there haven't been any in a long time there's one in the front i'll take it i have to go learn merv first uh but the game is there's a lot going on in this game this is the kind of game that you're thinking oh adventure i'll be the dwarf well hold on slow your roll there you need to read the stack of cards and go through all these steps and then when you hit this read card b2 go to b3 now pause play a little bit then when you hit that step read card c it is very much a sort of scripted idea it works pretty well in this game and then you add in a second box as big as the first with a lot more stuff then you do it again a third time it's a lot it's a daunting game i think that's what it is if i set aside a gay a day and i'm going to play legends of andor i think i'm going to have a great time but it takes that kind of forethought and commitment and that's why i've cooled on it it's just not coming out i really like this one still i think it's a cool game but yeah it just it's a lot of setup there's a lot of baggies in that box yeah that are like three tokens for one scenario for one dude that sits on a tower over here yeah it's that kind of thing so my number eight legends of endure that's how i'm saying it now eric summer would be happy with my number eight oh no how dare you sir my number eight is citadels wow now here the thing about citadels is i remember this is one of those game experiences i remember the first time we played it yeah and i went to a game cafe in korea we sat down and played it and i was like again we played i'm like i can yeah i was just ready to keep and i played it many many times and i still this is what i would still play now i just feel like the the brilliance of citadels and i think it is a brilliant game but now again we've seen this stuff used in more fulfilling games yes and it is possible i disagree with eric he thinks it's a bad game because you can get hit by the assassin multiple times now part of that is bad play on eric's part if you won't watch this um but but also there's ways that mitigate that now you can even take the assassin out of the game because almost every copy now of citadels comes with multiple things to put in there right yes right but it's just that i play citadels and i go i could play mission red planet right you know which is i think a superior more fulfilling game citadels again has that thing where you can play with a lot of people but i don't wanna no no you don't really wanna go too crazy with the player count right and then and then everyone always says you maybe you should play with less than eight buildings then just put it in the rules at this point you know they could have i don't know it just i like it i almost put fist to dragon stones here too um i actually i almost put bruno for duty's picture no don't joke wow but it used to be like if you said for duty manny game i was like yeah i've cooled and bruno we're no longer dating oh um we don't know there you go i was waiting i didn't do it i stopped i chewed on my tongue i just said we don't anyhow come on you gotta say it no you have to sing it once you're done talking about this go ahead anyhow i really still enjoy the game i think it's fun it's a great introductory game to many things but i'm i'm not as excited about it at all anymore who made this game we don't talk about it okay that's fantastic [Music] [Laughter] [Music] all right tom you've mentioned you've said a phrase a couple of times today that we don't talk about not that one okay uh that fits many of the choices and this is the first one i think that fits this vintage no i've changed as a gamer okay or maybe i've learned more about what i like and don't like as a game sure because some of these games were ones that were some of the first ones i played and i was like so excited oh this is something new this is something different my number seven is seasons um and i've learned that many of the things that this game does are just not things that i particularly like as a gamer ccgs actually because that's what i write that it has a very ccg feel this kind of playable card game collectible card game where you are basically at the beginning of the game drafting cards for the whole game right and that is just not what i like as a gamer it doesn't make it a bad game it makes it a game that i don't particularly enjoy but i do remember that when i first played it i was so taken with so many things you know the the production of the game is is beautiful and then and the way the dice work and then the resource management and those things were new to me and so it was kind of like i was excited about the process but now i've learned that i find games like this tedious um this is this is the game don't like this one yeah a lot of people still like it um and again i'm not saying it's a bad game i'm saying it's a bad game for me it's not the type of game that i enjoy thus i have cooled on it um i would not say it's a bad game but it's not a game that i choose to want to play it just is not what i enjoy in gaming you know what i mean um i'm more of a tactical gamer this is a very you know you have to basically plan out what you want to do at the very beginning for the whole game um that's just not what i enjoy so seasons of the game that again i think it's a fine game it's just not one for me i haven't played season since around when it came out yeah i don't know i liked it okay it seemed like everybody around me liked it more than i did and i just never played it again yeah i wonder if i'd like it trying it again now you know what i mean it's been so long yeah yeah you wonder that's one i might have to come back around to yeah apparently i'm tedious that's fantastic okay okay ah my number seven is a game called lewis and clark the expedition yes no yes wait this is this is the normal game right yeah yeah yeah this is the one you thought come to my side i'm coming to your side no i never liked this game okay and that's for that you said come to your side you did deal with that okay i will be speaking to cute whatever h well you're you're flustered now yes [Laughter] the main reason i've cooled on this one is uh everdell actually oh interesting i find them very similar in play experience they're both about putting workers out on the board okay or playing cards for stuff interesting i would have never thought of this in comparison with everedah i just find them very similar in field i know this is a race technically you're racing you're moving down the victory point track very slowly you know what i mean yeah yeah um that's really what it is but i find that on your turn you it's either a worker placement game or a card manipulation game or card play game yeah and that's the main dichotomy there it's two things mushed together it is yeah i find everett dell does a lot of the same things on this turn i am going to place a worker oh no you went where i wanted to go or you know i do you don't and i go there and i collect something or i play a card so i find those two halves pushed together yeah the games are not you know not direct replacements for one another and i might be an outlier here but i find them very similar and i just like everyday better which is why i've cooled on this okay okay it's also again there's a lot of issues with the game that i have always felt and when you play other stuff that you do like and is similar i.e everdell and they become more prevalent things like it doesn't scale well i don't want to play with more than two yeah and i could play everyday with three i could play with four whatever um it's kind of long it's all those things just all that stuff i like the theme in everdel a lot i love the artwork and the cute critters and all the things going on in that game so yeah it's i applaud your bravery is that a little bit of a narrow sort of path to cooling on something no but that's i get it like anything i'm picking the one best answer or the one best reason i'm sure there's a lot of other reasons but i'm going to focus on the one biggest one whenever possible my number seven lewis and clark the expedition this could have been on my list too for different reasons but it could have been on my list as well i mean i don't dislike it but i never find myself wanting to play it all right yeah it's not that i dislike it again i don't actually dislike any of these all that uh ralphing stuff at the beginning was ingest yeah yeah all right my number seven mike i was wrong oh we have a crossover wow all right ready and also it happened like five seconds after i said i won't have any crossovers with mike and then he said dead of winter and i was like oh okay that if you're going to be so wrong i feel like mike be like mike if i could anyway uh yeah man the first one i played this just blew me away right and it really is a great experience it is and you could talk me into playing it i it's long it is long yeah the crossroads thing is awesome and i'm still really disappointed that i haven't seen it in more games but they finally did it better i thought in the um forgot waters game yeah right and then every once in a while in this game you just have a terrible game yeah and while i thought the idea of personal objectives is a neat one i am slowly coming around to z's side on this because yes come to my side no no come on come on [Laughter] i've got you yet no but ah yeah you know it's just sometimes it's game breaking and then i don't know i just wish there was a reason to [Music] do things in a game that you want to do just for thematic reasons but not for gameplay reasons that was compelling enough for me to be like yeah okay i'll let myself go just so you can have a better game or whatever i'm hoarding food cans oh i'm hoarding cans of food whether you all die to zombies or not if that's what i need to do what the game is telling me to do i'm going to do that right and someone said in the comments that i hate send my co-ops and it's a semicolon that's true but i always looked at it as and again as maybe as me i played the game as i have total victory yeah regular victory which means the group won but i didn't complete my personal objective so technically i lose but in my head i'm not going to be one sure right that's that's my reasoning that away is that an actual thing in the rules though do you remember i don't think so no no no no you straight up blues but i i would at least be like well i lost but it's kind of like the guy who like dies but the rest of the expedition makes it you're like that guy's a sucker okay and other people are saying play it as a pure co-op you could but that's not the game yeah and if you do play it as a pure culp i think it takes away some of the aspect of it it does it really does but all and also that that what's it the winner die frostbite what's it called oh the the devil die exposure die sometimes it just wanna yeah it's it is brutal i mean it's really brutal and it's supposed to be thematic but it also just it it feels crushing it always sometimes so again i think i would play this once in a while but i've really cooled on it dead of winter [Music] [Music] all right my number six is a game that i think you still like uh z uh how could you you fooled me you're about to see i wouldn't say yeah i wouldn't say i dislike it but it's just like i would never choose this over other games that do similar things okay and this is quadropolis oh i really like what other games other than meadow meadow he said other than sir do you not understand the question that's just one aspect of quadropolis that's the place of thing to go down a grid and get that the rest of it's built a little bit rest of it is build a city and you're it's so funny because it does the things that you say you hate which is like be thinking about evaluate what this building is and to find scoring around it i do hate that except in two games i don't mind it yeah this is one of them right right this game is weird to me yeah this game is fine right like i this is not one that i would say i won't play it but it's just i would never choose this this is just one that i see it on the shelf and i'm just like i still like it i like it yeah i like it i think i like meadow better i definitely like meadow like a lot better for that for that mechanism by itself i do too i do too like meadow better not and that doesn't blow this game away make me forget it but you're right that that part is just a mechanism that the game doesn't it doesn't feel like it's about that that's just a clever action selection type of a thing yeah um i guess i also have realized and i don't want to you know kind of get ahead of myself too much but i i realize that maybe these kind of city building games i don't like them as much as there's like a very specific types that i like you know what i mean they're very specific types and this is one that i'm just turning people over to anti-city games no no i'm not like there are others like you know foundations of rome like that that just is like that hits my wheelhouse more than something like this you know what i mean well that's clearly a city building game that's what i'm saying that's a version of a city builder that i enjoy more than something like that all right all right that's my number six quadropolis let's talk about building things my number six is takanoko oh wow this is so sad no code which version the 300 version no no um i have pl i like like that i haven't played it i've seen it i've never played that that's ridiculous i agree i like it but it's ridiculous it is very ridiculous takanoko is a i think of cool donut because i have no place into which to slot this game see i thought at one point i thought this is a great introductory game it turned out this was a horrible introductory game how do i know that i tried to introduce it to some people mm-hmm uh is it because of the die it is the die i think a big part is that i think so i'm like i'm teaching games i'm like irrigation and the dye are the two things that if they were removed from this game i think the game would be a much more just streamlined interesting punchy kind of game yeah and yet it's so lucky and it's sort of so you know you draw the goal and see if you make them make that pattern or if you already made it or that it can't all then it doesn't feel like it justifies the reason to do all this like well i have to irrigate in this pattern i got to put water here and here and oh i have an extra action this round oh and the rain comes in and the panda runs and so yeah it unfortunately i've cooled on it because of those nitpicky details that the game forces upon you that i adjust the more i play the more i feel like man i just wish they would remove this stuff i wish i could ignore this stuff and then the game would go smoothly i still again don't dislike the game i'm just saying i find myself thinking these thoughts and have cooled on it what are you using you keep looking at me well i'm trying to figure out why you're looking all smug over here no no it's not it's exactly the opposite of smug it's like i want to disagree with you but i i i can't i just i still find this game so charming but you're absolutely charming you're absolutely right i agree it's a tough one it is i taught it to some people a couple years ago and i was like man this dies a pain in the neck to teach yeah i forgot yeah and well not that i forgot i kind of like underestimated how much there was to teach yeah when i tried it one of the cards is harder than the other two i don't remember which one oh as far as with the objective cards yes yeah the the easiest are the pandas the easiest are the pandas probably the garbage gardener's the hardest one because you need a pattern present on the board right and then if it has a pre-printed tile on it or if it has oh i forgot about the three special tiles special tiles they have to be in there and it has to be irrigated yes like one the panda can't eat from one is already irrigated even if it's not connected to the canal so you're like hold on right i thought it had to have water next to it yeah there are a lot of exceptions for a game i still like the game a lot but i definitely understand what you're saying yeah if this got the seven wonders uh architects architects treatment i'd be all over it yeah ooh he could do that too he could do it it's the same guy you could do it you've been called out where is my talking on the duel like okay no it's takitako take a no duel and one is one is a panda right a bloodthirsty demon-possessed panda the other one a frail feeble farmer that's good alliteration frail field ffff all right here we go my number six i'm gonna cheat here for real briefly okay and i'm gonna cheat because there's a game i forgot and i saw it mentioned in chat so this is where i would put it oh okay here we go okay the game i forgot what sentinels are the multiverse oh i never liked that to begin with right i liked it a lot i've cooled on it the app is better and other superhero games exist silly me that's where i would have put it okay instead i put a game that's very similar to my number seven dead of winner but i've cooled even harder on this one because it's number six oh i know last night on earth no battlestar galactica in your face and it has nothing to do with unfathomable at all in fact i think i like battlestar galactica better than unfathomable okay um again there's i love the theme of battlestar galactica i i mean i came plain to play this right from the tv show i enjoy it i know the characters all that stuff's cool and i'm even cutting out all the expansions which added so much extra for very little payoff um my problem with battlestar galactica is again it feels like a really long social deduction game these days and there are so many shorter ones that give me the exact same feel other than the theme you do it to me i was gonna do it to you you don't have to i was kidding no no i can i can list those i mean i think resistance is faster than battle circle actually do you think it gives you the same experience i think it does interesting good cop bad cop gives me the same experience as battlecry galactica deception murder in hong kong again trying to figure out who a hidden person is and stuff i like that concept i shadows over camelot has actually stayed up in one of my favorites okay battle starts falling because it's so long yeah and it has things like that cylon card and you're like what do i do when i reveal myself but i can't look at the car you know stuff like that also really i was very blown away that they did not take the opportunity to streamline it more when they did unfathomable because especially because the trend is clearly to trend lighter shorter to make this kind of game social deduction games a burst of fun punchy quick get together at the game cafe and knock it out in 30 minutes i was very blown away that they didn't take the opportunity to go cthulu battlestar galactica boom we're going to go show we're going to hit hit an hour hour and a half wasn't there such a thing as a bsg express like it was like a home brew thing yeah they turned that into dark moon that's right dark moon but i actually think dark moon is not at dark moon that's the caninsia game dark moon dark moon city i didn't like dark moon that much dark moon feels forced yeah so again i've had some amazing experiences playing this game and you could talk me into it probably although it would be like we're playing base game right yeah you know where we're playing with people who know how to play right there's a lot of whatever you know there's a some caveats in there but it just it's really falling down for me so bowser galactica [Music] [Music] all right my number five is uh in that same bucket of games that i've had here on this list which are i've realized i'm not this type of a gamer this just is not a game for me and this is fun to play with no young geez [Laughter] gramps yeah i'm trying i can't even make these jokes anymore invalid my number five is quarriers this is oh wow i haven't thought about this game in a in a breath or two i remember when when i again when i was new to the hobby i was very into this game and look at all those dice our awards and i was interested in the the the expansions and the new dice and then i came to realize i don't like deck building i really i i really don't like deck building in this form that much you mean dice building dice building yeah but it's same the same color you don't like dominion dominion is okay i think this is what i want to be don't spoil the man it's it's it's using it to do this battling type of a thing is what i'm getting at okay you see what i'm saying you don't like dice masters either no i don't like dice master but i didn't play dice masters much this is the first of this type of game that i played and i was like oh this is really cool and then i realized that i never wanted to you know i was like getting like new stuff new stuff i got to keep up this new stuff i don't it was too much it was too much it was like what you want to play quarterfacts and uh no yeah it was like for the gladiators right yeah oh my gosh yes yes you know and again i just i guess i realized that this is not the type of game that i tend to like you know what i mean when i was first in the hobby i didn't really know i was trying to figure things out and i you know i was like i had fun with it the first few times i played it and then i found out that i started to get really tired of it really quickly um so i don't know it's again it's not it's not deck building it's deck building for the purpose of this kind of battling where you're having to kind of like keep track of all these different powers that you're kind of drafting and that just doesn't work for me so okay yeah you know what for me this is also cooled a bit i mean first i mean dice masters why that's cool but it's also when i first played this i was like bag building what a neat idea rolling dice the the actual game of course take out the buying and all the special powers the actual game where you attack people and stuff is not particularly a fascinating game it's not but it was first remember you want to be first or best well it's not best it was first and now that we've seen a lot of other games it's hard to go back it sounds like you're saying you want to be best then or first yeah it sounds like best comes along and whoops that's true yeah and i'm glad you articulated that because i was struggling to articulate what it is but it really is that that core thing of the procedural element of how that's why you probably never played the the quest for the classes i hate that title the quest expansion it gave you another thing to do with your dice and it really wrapped up the game but it was kind of late in the cycle so yeah again you've never played it so you're never going to probably right too little too quick you're welcome we'll be here for another 20 minutes um all right where are we at number five is a victim of its own success for me i think because of the extra iterations zombicide black played calm down guys it ain't gonna be pandemic okay zombicide black plague i this was the final and then i make it sound more final than that but the the the last thing that happened that made me sort of take that fine you know i'll find a little drop for it was i was reading the rule book that they posted for the marvel zombicide thing yeah online and every two paragraphs i would find a rule that i would go oh that's better than black plague literally like every at least one's a page every to a page oh that's a better rule than the way black plague does it yeah and they've had because they've had so many iterations black plague is starting to show its age they've added a little thing here and another thing there and there are now so many rules that i just find dated like noise the noise rule is just dated you know there's a lot of things in this game that now feel they've been iterated upon to the point of making this or large parts of this fuel up sleep it's funny there was some sort of update kit or something maybe but yeah it feels old it's funny because i felt like black plague was kind of like the first refreshing of this system yeah well you know because it was the first one if i remember right that had those player boards that came with it and that kind of helps with my word it was a it wasn't i wasn't particularly a big fan of zombies i played this and i was like oh this is much better me too i agree no i agree with all of that i'm just saying this has now been a few years or at least a few iterations so they've had space and western and uh i don't think that which is the best version had you played zombie side before you played black played like they were like i was wondering why you didn't have that as your controller thanks oh maybe that's no i think this was the first we was the first i was gonna somehow persuaded z to play this 24-hour marathon i think that's right yeah i do like it and i still do like it i'm just saying now it feels for lack of a better word vintage yeah i got it in there vintage my number five will never be a crossover with z because he has never put this game on any of his lists and has never played it but mike played it for the first time which could be my last time i played the game but i might play it in the future and that's twilight imperium this was also in my top 10. wow so this one is a hard one for me to kind of clarify like there's not many games that have taken the place of this okay because it's hard to find a you're not going to get a 4x game in under an hour or at about an hour yeah look i like last night a lot but last night don't feel anything alike really they're both in space but like twilight imperium you feel like you're building an empire right um that last light does not feel like that it has a different feel to it i don't feel like i'm building an empire i feel like i'm sending out ships and things ti4 with all the man it's it's it's grandiose and i like it but every time i play it i i feel exhausted right and i cool on that feeling when are we going to play this he's like yeah we're like i'm like and i'll never play it against he's like i'm ready oh you're done oh well if only they could turn this into a 65 rolling right i now talk now you've got my attention look who's talking i but here's the thing i might play it again yeah but it's it's definitely one of those we got to set the day up and it was fun it's exciting yeah but i can't just pull this game out and play it at a con i sit there and think i could play like four other games during this time frame it's kind of best when you play with people who played it before or everyone hasn't played it before because it's like a learning experience and it's fun and the mix is tough yes um but i have a lot of respect for this game it wasn't my top 10 word twilight premium three was in my top ten but yeah i just kind of cooled on this and it's not just that it's long although length does have something to do with it this is the last time i'll mention length i think did you find fourth better than third sure but fourth twilight pair and four what is that essentially okay twilight fourth edition is stay over there ti 3.5 for sure okay the the difference between three and four like if you played three you i'd be like you know how to play four we'll teach you the minor differences yeah that really is that yeah this is one where i i legitimately feel like i'm really really glad i played that and i don't ever need him you got to play yeah i want to play no one ever invites me to play you know literally the video has you we have receipts i've kept the email chain i've released it to the senate subcommittee um mr garcia did you or did you not get an email remember sir you are under oath let's move on my number four is a game that i have cooled on for a couple of reasons um one of them is because i have found other pure solitaire games that i like much much more and another reason is that a an app came along that takes away some of the it's better as an app but i still don't even love the app that much and this is one deck dungeon this is a game that when it first came out i was pretty excited about it i played it quite a bit i even played the i think it's called forest of shadows the the standalone second uh version of this game okay um but i found that first of all when the app came out i'm like okay well i'd rather just play the app than have to kind of deal with you know setting it up and the cards and all the dice and all the stuff but then i also just started to play other dice driven especially solo games that i like a lot more the the there's i felt like there was not as much mitigation in this as i would like you know i don't mind luck in games at all but i like to feel like i've got a little more agency than this game uh gives me this is one where i probably would not choose to play again because again it's a solo game essentially i think you can play a cooperative but um i'm just not gonna choose this as a solo game anymore i'm gonna pick other games over this i found it to be interesting but at the end it just felt so lucky and you're right i felt like i couldn't mitigate the dice you played this too i played only the app yeah solitaire yeah yeah yeah it's a solo game but at the end like you get to these final fights yeah you roll the dice and you're like yeah or oh yeah oh and there's nothing you really can do about it also the pseudo i'm going into the dungeon was so fake of a choice like which of these four cards you're like i will pick this one oh the wrong choice well you had no reasoning to know what's so just put them in a stack then right right yeah exactly so yeah this is one that when it came out i played it quite a bit but now i just don't think i want to play it anymore i think i'm done with it that's my number four one deck dungeon all right my number four is evolution evolution has had a lot of um additions hasn't it it's been this game has just come out and come out again and come up with expansions and the expansions by themselves have come out and i liked it originally i really did enjoy it i thought it was a very clever engaging game i honestly never got this whole it really simulates the world doesn't it and they were like quoting a biologist or something on the box and i'm like all right calm down i get that some animals eat other animals and you want to have a lot of animals to be protected from one solitary hunter but you know i'm not splicing dna over here but after i played evolution i decided to get a degree in yeah right i tested out of three college courses [Laughter] so yeah the game was interesting but it definitely cooled on and i think i just started to enjoy the playlist i don't know how else to put it and this is one that not through no fault of any other game and it's just the more i played it so you haven't played oceans ah i think i i don't think i did because i think and a copy of it came in and i don't think i ever did i looked through it and i'm like gosh it still feels like evolution and i was at that point so cooled on it i was uninspired to try it yeah it became the choices in and what was going on started to lose its flavor and it started to become a a binary choice of like meat eater not it just became so important yeah whether you decided to go carnivore not carnivore everything else felt like fluff around that yeah central choice the more i played the more that felt true i'd be like do i go carnivore or not no everybody's kind of big so i'll give this [ __ ] over here a long neck or something and then eventually long neck [ __ ] i can't tell you how many times i've won with that strategy eventually it's like oh they're kind of weak or whatever nicknames this isn't on my list because i didn't really like this to begin with yeah this never really but i like oceans better but it's also like evolution 1.3 sure anyway there you go my number four is an entire genre of games and i can do this did we just screen out for a second i can do this because um yeah we're looking super green it's coming up because this was actually in my top 10 this entire genre of games and i realized this on sunday because we were playing another one of it and i was like these are really starting to fall for me and that's escape room games wow yeah now don't get me wrong i just gave the unlock kids game a 10 out of 10. that's fantastic for kids and i still will play the new unlocks but i'll tell you the exit games the escape room in the box i have so many of these i have a pile at home i pull them out and i play them and i'm like oh this is that this is that get out the paper measure this with a compass and it feels like that these these games have the exit games in particular they've reached their their limit they've been like um look on the back of the box look on the packaging that the box is in uh that that the box that you got shipped from it's in there it's on the ups truck you know hold up the shrink wrap to the light yeah and they're really starting because an escape room itself only has so much i've heard people who go like hundreds will go oh yeah once you go in i know that puzzle i know that puzzle that's kind of where i'm at with these i'm not even claiming to be good i can say oh i know what this puzzle is i've seen it before now i got to figure out how to do it though yeah and some of them still will get me excited especially if they have some three-dimensional aspect right but if it's a pile of papers and there's a pens and paper i'm still doing these this is but they've really dropped it used to be we got an escape room game man i took it home and we played it that night yeah yeah now i looked and i was like wow that one's been sitting there for four months we played one on sunday this is passing me and my daughter's and it was fine yeah but when it was done i was like yeah these just don't get me as excited as they used to it's funny you were saying this and i was thinking well maybe it's because it's a more limited design space than like traditional euro games but then i thought better i'm like no i don't know if escape room games have a more limited design space than like worker placement or set collection or other it's just that these types of games tend to rely on showing you something you haven't seen before that's the book it is a more limited design space because when you do it you're done well that's if you play it replacement game there might be 50 different things i can do i i get that i guess what i'm saying is that the the hook of these games is surprise yeah it's showing you something you haven't seen before and so you're to the point where you're you're like oh i kind of know this is just a riff on this type of a puzzle this is just a riff turn it upside down read it backwards yeah turn it sideways do those two things fit together you know you kind of have this thing you go through and it's not as exciting that first time that you do something and you and you're like that's awesome right it's not as awesome the second time and i feel bad for the designer like oh you thought that you know by putting those numbers close together i wouldn't notice that they also made a letter right uh yeah i've seen it before but i'm trying not to spoil anything in particular here exactly that's kind of the point thank you danny for the super chat thank you um yeah so again i still like these and i still will play and unlock i think as fast as they come out okay because the unlock is the one of the series which i feel is trying to push it and also because it uses an app yeah they can do things but even they fall but the exit games and all i mean there's a lot of these has definitely calmed down mm-hmm there's definitely not as many of them it was certainly a fad but it feels like i was part of that fad yeah yeah i was like yeah escape from games they're amazing amazing what's next and i feel a little guilty about that yeah maybe they weren't quite expecting anybody to play all of it you know what i mean it might be the problem so that's also part of it is the fact that you should you played so many you have a repository of mechanisms and ways in which they try to trick you and surprise you now sometimes one still stands out like i just played that neil patrick harris yeah the box one box one and i was like whoa that was something different right and even that one had a you a couple things and you there was like one thing of it would not explode you did not like i forget what it was but yeah the time time was a terrible terrible terrible terrible idea yeah anyhow so escape room games my number four [Music] my number three is a game that uh and i need to be specific it has been released in a second edition that i have not played okay i don't know you'll be able to tell me because you have both played the new addition i'm almost on the second edition dose that's correct um return of uno my number three is a game that i've cooled on for a couple of reasons one i feel like it is way too long for what it is and two the setup and tear down is just such a bear and that is rum and bones um but i have only played that's why i specifically chose the first edition cover here now there is a second tied edition second edition changes it a lot okay well i can't speak to that um my main issue with it now again is that it takes too long to set up all of these pieces which essentially are mindless drones that you push forward you would still have the same problem yeah and i agree and i felt like it's too long for what it is and and to me the main beef thank you for the super chat um the main hook of this game is your captains right yeah exactly for you the captain's only one of the different kinds but the big guys the main guys the big guys yes yeah you know what i mean um that to me is where the engine stack hands the you know gunner the ones that have the special powers right otherwise it's a moment i just felt like it got to the point where it was arduous to take this off the show okay here we go set it all up okay where who's going where it just it seemed like it was so much it felt like it would be much better as an app you know what i'm saying yeah um and so i just was like the theme is great the look of it is great the components are great i used to play it with with my youngest son and we really enjoyed that but i was the one that had to you know take care of all the setting up and tearing it down so it was just like a chore after a while and that's why i've cooled on it i don't disagree with you and in fact this is the only instance where it might be better if all the deckhands were a token on the board i agree and they were just the token that said four three two or remove one or remove it whatever yeah because they just march down a specified path yes and the board would be a lot cleaner you just can't walk in there because there's dudes in there sure um but yes i agree with you the the the moba part of this game the deck hands or i think that's what they're called i think you're right and they're just sort of shuffling towards each other is this game's irrigation yeah i do remember the first time i played it i thought this is so stupid why would this happen and they're like it's mobile i'm like what's moba i was very out of it i didn't know anything about it i still don't get why that excites people the second edition really ramped up the three people you have that ran around yeah and i or the five you switch them in and out i thought that was exciting i like the second edition a lot but i do agree with you you're like this is a lot of setup for a two-player game right and there's some like whoa kind of game yeah where most of them i still like it a lot most of the pieces on the board are just moving forward they're autonomous that's right that's really what that i agree so there we go somebody hit me up with those tokens that replace them that's right yeah it might work if i had if i had those tokens i could have i just got rid of a ton of the expansions but you took one no don't tell me what i did especially if you wanted to if you wanted to keep it still looking kind of blingy because it's a very impressive production you could do like like acrylic tokens or you know what i mean that's interesting i could have fit all the expansions in the box and right i still haven't i just i just added it to the diced library it was a hard one to fit in because i had this it was it's a typical seam on production i'm like wow but i still like it it might it might actually be better that's one instance in which miniatures work against you i agree you try to go in there and they fall over and you're shoving them into a little square yep yeah all right what do you got z oh it's me i'm so caught up in this roman bone stuff number three for me is legendary encounters alien oh the alien one legendary yeah yeah okay marvel legendary i was never super into i love it i've never quite that much of it but i liked this one a lot and then i have predator also but okay a predator in this kind of you could you could mix them and it was a whole thing these games got way too complicated for their own good sorting this thing figuring out the different kinds of cards and setting it up and the whole thing was trying to just simply do too much with what could have been a fun engaging deck building sort of alien game playing through the movies that was cool you know picking the characters going through the movies but it just yeah i just cooled on it because it was a lot of setup that roman bones thing where you have to organize everything and set it up the game's a little long so the more i played the more i started to feel that um bother me a little bit more each time and then i think i hurt myself a little bit by getting predator and putting them in the same box alien vs predator yeah yeah because that was the thing they came up with the predator one and they came up with the alien one separately but there were rules where you could mix them sure and so i had made dividers for the cards and the whole thing but then playing and setting up everything and the mode you wanted to play and you could have one you could have humans versus either ones but you could also be predators against aliens or something yeah oh the bones you could i could hear the bones breaking under the weight of this game's everything yeah and i just cooled on it i let that i let that go um so yeah legendary encounters an alien deck building game my number three all right my number three is the newest addition to the list um so i play i play games with my kids a lot and i'm always playing new stuff bring home new stuff and sometimes it's good sometimes it's bad the kids are like not always thrilled about that so i was like all right we're gonna play one of my favorite games you guys are going to love this game i love it we played it and when it was done i was like what do you think and well we didn't finish it because it's a very very long game and they were like ah it was okay and i was like yeah you're right it was okay because so many games have taken what this game did which was phenomenal and are doing in a better more streamlined way and this game is seventh continent i love seventh continent wow but i'm telling you for example destinies which just came out on destiny's every tile i go to i'm like look at this interesting thing ooh look at this and seventh content i forgot you can go like six tiles and you're like look at the trees look it's a mountain yeah i was like when does the exciting stuff happen it does okay seventh continent has some really cool stuff but wow you have to get to it and there's a lot of setup and there's a lot of you're bleeding for no reason at all yeah and it's it's neat it was like a groundbreaking game and i'm certainly still very excited about seventh citadel that's coming out because i'm assuming they're going to streamline some of well maybe think why are they you know but i like this idea of going out and exploring but i found with seventh continent a lot of times you explore and you're like more sand yeah you know and that's and destiny's i was even in the most boring and destiny's is a few very boring scenarios but there's a lot of exciting things you'd be like look at this guy it's about like pressing it all into a pretty small board you could spend three hours going through a cave just to learn don't go in that cage and that's another problem with seventh continent that's been very exasperated for me is that you are doing this curse and you are going somewhere and the game says you can go anywhere cool places let's go here cross the we can get on a raft great we cross to another continent we go and after a while you're like did we make a left at the very beginning but we should have made it right and the answer is yes you should have and that's that's frankly not good game design if not it's exciting and so i've wanted to play seventh continent in the sense of we're just gonna play till we finish it i'm not we're not going to lose but i can see how people can get irritated at that and it cooled for me i'll still play some kind i still like it but wow i was that i was just like huh this doesn't hold up but it hasn't even been out that long but again sometimes something can be too sandboxy sure yeah i actually am not a big fan of sandbox games for that very reason it's not a buzzword that excites me it really isn't that idea of like sandbox video games yes absolutely but a sandbox board game especially when there's a right answer like that well video games have a waypoint right yeah they're like go here i want to find a thing or whatever if i can go off of the path you're telling me to go on great right but if i don't know what the path is at all and i just make my own with no other direction that could happen yeah where you just sort of feel directionless i mean you don't know what to do you fly into the sun or something like a [ __ ] i never loved seventh continent but i always felt like it did the exploration thing really well one of what i missed i felt like it did the exploration thing really well and then i played sleeping gods i'm like oh this does the exploration really well and that's a thousand times better that's another game in sleeping gods every single place you go to is exciting exciting every single one and there's not a right answer or a wrong answer in that game and seventh continent i just was like oh my word we found another abandoned hut we found footprints we're like what are those footprints means we never find out it's like watching the second last episode of lost again and again and again and again i like that yeah it's true yeah you don't watch the last episode live because then you realize they're never going to explain anything to you and it ruins the entire series so you never watched the last one i'm so mad about lost still it was a good final episode but didn't answer 800 questions all right well it's gonna be i like completion all right real quick [Music] my number two is the game that surprised me the most because when compiling this list i went through my collection on bgg i always assumed that i didn't particularly like this game and then i looked that i had rated it in eight but so currently was rated and eight right so when i the first year the first game i played i did the first game i played um i had i rated it now i think i would probably rate it like a four or five i don't particularly want to play this game huge draw huge drop i've cooled on this game and this is another city building type game this is between two cities never played it i don't want you to like it i know you wouldn't like it i just don't want to play it it's like you're doing what it says basically you're building two cities consecutively and there's the the hook is that you're going to score the the the the highest scoring building you know between you and the person whichever one of your two goals between two the lower of like i said i thought i always wasn't a fan of this and then i looked i'm like i must have liked it the first time i've played it and then every time i played it since i have not played it in a while because i've just the last couple times i was like man i just i'm actually over this mechanism yes that's also true if you're working with two people i found invariably for some people i've worked with some people in our game group who i was like oh i'm not i'm not doing that you're doing it got it right right so that's not fun and one ends and then also if i'm sitting between the two best players i'm winning 100 it's just not that interesting right yeah or if you don't get you have a different play style with this person you're like oh see i think this is a game that has an interesting idea like i think it's a very clever idea i don't think that it works as well in practice as it does in theory you know what i mean i'm sure you can have good games i know a lot of people like the game but for me i other than that first game apparently which i still i can't even remember why i rated an 8 but i haven't enjoyed it and i'm just like i don't want to play this anymore i like it okay so i but i feel the same ways from when i'm getting it was it's an okay city building game which you wouldn't like because you don't like that sort of thing no no but i i also don't think you would like that work with both people on the side of the road there you go it's not that it's that you're it's just a weird thing it's just odd yeah you like do i see oh you're doing really well over there well then i'm gonna sabotage this it's a weird concept if you think about it too hard right i got you i got you yeah you just you're it's like how dependent are you dependent upon other people to win like are you winning because of what you're doing or are you winning because of who you're sitting next to or are you losing because of what you're doing or not it's a weird way it just is you know it doesn't matter between two castles [Laughter] yeah i doubt it i don't like any of those maybe this is z's number two also crossover it's not a little concern because the game i thought i was crossing over with you hasn't happened yet but it's my number one so we'll find out oh boy okay we crossed over already we're good yes but no we have one at some point all right this is it my number two is among the stars oh i actually might this would make my top ten but i've cooled on this for me it's one reason only though because that's green oh okay because you have to stinking sort those tile well i guess it only matters if you're playing with an expansion that was a big problem i backed this expansion on kickstarter back in the day but sort of came out and prepping everything this was basically another seven wonders type game there were a lot when seven wonders hit there were a lot of games there were drafting games in which you were given a few cards and you would play one and pay or discard one for three money almost always it wasn't fact three money was a very dominion thing where for some reason every deck building game had a hand of five yeah um or six what is it in dominion five who cares who cares that game is dominion five five and then or you could do a couple of other things the twist here was geometry mattered you had to put things next to other things right which seven wonders didn't do and that was enough for when the game came out it just after time that concept died for me and i think the simplicity and the elegance of seven wonders kept that going this is a game when it came out i said oh i like this better and seven wonders and i've definitely changed back right yeah there's something about just the the clean design of something like seven wonders that you can come back to it a couple of years after you play last and go yeah i can settle back in fields of green is a little cleaner okay i was going to ask you because i haven't played this i've played fields of green and even i've never played fields of green i guess i never played that one i think well you have you played among the stars they're not much different yeah i just feel like it's a slightly cleaner system i don't know how to explain it part of it among the stars graphic design is not particularly intuitive i think that's a big part of why i cooled on it actually i was just looking at the pictures when i was putting my list together the aliens are pretty bad just the artwork is bad but the graphic design is kind of rough yeah in fact this i'm i might like this a little more and i think it probably is due for a second edition a cleaning up of this game okay where they streamline it clean it up i could see this game doing okay right now on kickstarter or something like that it looked radically different and it was clearly among the stars second edition unrelated pretty much the first in look and whatever but as it is right now yeah i'd get on board with that i'd give it you know what i mean it could that could work i think it's the the time is is ripe for conquering the stars my number two among the stars my number two is my no this is no way this is this is only on my list uh this was my number one for several years again here we go i already wrote twilight imperium now now this is uh dual wages oh i can't should i write that no i can't do it wow so this for me is the kind of game now i i thought about this if dulve just showed up it would be a kickstarter today yes okay right and if this game showed up on kickstarter i would with you guys mock it we would i know i would we would wreck this thing but we would laugh about it like the sunday here's the thing though i love the theme of it i still like the anachronistic thing of moving around but the hex thing uh the hex key which was touted as this amazing thing i've had some most the best gaming experience in my life playing dual pages i have they've been really fun um but i realize for dual visions to work i need to have one person who also is really invested in the experience i'm running the whole thing because all these rules you got to keep in your head and we're playing we're having a great time and one of those people who i played the game with has left my house just had a baby today that's why my beard is gray okay um but so she's not coming back to play this with me and none of you want to play this with me and i i mean look at that picture it it i just really really cooled on this yeah i also was really as much as i like duel of ages 2 it's great in many ways but the designer was like let's make it more complicated let's add more stuff to it and i saw his design notes on dual of ages 3 which is on pgj i found it oh yeah baby and he's like we're going to streamline it down i'm looking at like you're not really but it could be yeah this could be so great this game it could be i really like it um hero escape was a little bit close to this thing but i still i still like hero skip a lot um but dual wages i don't know that this one i may never play again i might but maybe my grandson might be talking about you want to play a game back from the old end times why would you do that to them that's not okay you don't you don't teach this to a grandson or a relative i don't know how you did to the melody i don't know no this isn't melody's this is one of her favorite games and i'm going when she left coincidence not likely i think not um i've played duel of ages the original one and it was a terrible terrible song you did not play this with me no no how did you what made you play it i played it back at the local game store you know i did have a gaming live no no no i'm not talking about that i'm talking about what persuaded you to play this it was i don't know it was on the table we were gonna play it i'm like all right let's play it i am a very uh well-rounded gamer you better watch your mouth here come on hold it hold it go to the next one [Music] this was a list that i definitely spent a little more time with than some other ones that we've done uh because a lot of times when you will suggest the list we're going to do there's like two or three that come to my mind right away for this list there was only one and it's my number one everyone was also the first one in my mind i think this is the one that i thought i might cross over my number one was not the first one that came to mind but when i saw it i was like oh right one i wrote one next to it my number one is a game that has cooled for me because of the expansion a hundred percent we might have a crossover it's got to be my number one is photosynthesis oh no no it's garbage although everything else you said was right no i get it i also have cool and photosynthesis oh my gosh i i really there's two reasons he's cool and one is the expansion two is the person we played it with well that that's also true actually because you you played it with someone if you who was straight out mean right and you're like oh wow when someone plays really mean in photosynthesis it changes the game online my name is james so so first of all the expansion i'm just going to put it out there because i didn't review it i think the expansion is terrible it is i agree it makes the game much more complex which it didn't need and fiddly and annoying but you're right also in the sense that i knew the first time i played the game you can see it's a it's a it could be a mean game but it goes beyond being mean it goes to the point of you can easily almost make the game miserable for other people not even so that you win just to be a jerk i'm going to take that center spot right you're not going to move you're just going to sit there um you can really do some weird things in this game and just really trash other people right which is the way the game's made it is and i played like six seven games before i met someone who did that and i was like wow this does not make the game much fun i mean more played more than six or seven games and then but you're right but i was just like oh my gosh and now i'm to the point where i do not want to play this game okay okay um and it's not because it's mean again because i've you could you could play mean games it's got area control of course it's going to have some meanness to it but i just the the the combination of the really bad expansion that i think highlighted some elements of the game that i i really don't like playing with people that have put it in such a such a miserable experience yeah yeah you just don't want to play it anymore so that's my number one photo synth is still very pretty good actually i might have put this as my number 10. but i still i still play photosynthesis i i haven't got pushed out of it i don't want to play it anymore yeah wow i'm done with it oh i was part of that game was it me it was not you oh it was me it wouldn't tell you uh my number one is uh very similar to mike's reasons there but he said expansion and you were waiting for the word expansions yes i think we have a cross over here i think we do too i would never be mad if i didn't time story yeah for sure i never really forced shoehorns that's the thing i didn't really like this was not even close this one actually it's not so this is both our number one yeah it's both of us this this so i you can go watch it i still i occasionally go watch us i don't normally watch our live plays but the live play of the first time we played this you can see the moment where zee and i figured out that first puzzle yeah and we were just like yeah sandwich is sitting there we were just like i have never that that's easily for me one of my top five gaming experiences what was the first play of time stories it was so fun it was almost a revelation the game was so distinct from anything else i played it had this fun story driven thing without the rules overhead where you just look at a panorama and be like i'm gonna go talk to that guy and it was like crazy go there and read something and be like and then you could tell somebody else kind of what you saw but not read it verbatim sure it felt like it bumped up against rpgs in a way and bumped up against storytelling in a way without rules almost it was so clean and then with the sci-fi thing over it too and then you were like and they would plug you back into that world but now you'd been there already so you knew some things that concept alone still blows my mind mm-hmm i like it and then the second one was fine yeah then the third one we it the second one the first and second hit it there's there might be an overall story maybe and we're like okay maybe third one was like this is the story right and our minds were blown it showed us cards from future games yeah and we future expansions and it was like amazing and then the fourth one was pretty solid and then you went to for some reason they thought people were begging to be part of the manson murder scene and that and the ending is by far the worst ending of any game i've ever played literally all the expansions we mean drink more ovaltine yeah that's basically what i was my word okay so then you're like okay fine that was terrible ending it brought this game from a 10 down to a six maybe even a five but then they're like oh we're rebooting the system right right okay i played it again i was like you know what the system's dead part of the reason i've said this before is escape room games yeah yeah this suffers from that for sure but things like clean sleeping they leaned into the story more right i think it works they just couldn't shake some of those um sort of you know the the logic of the the path you're supposed to follow that couldn't quite simplify that sure they couldn't shake some of that feeling of this one stinking answer here you're going to make me loop 18 times until i find it yes if they were able to shake that and i don't know open it up a little bit make me allow me to play around in your little sandbox then it might be better but you're right they had two swings at this and messed it up and i'll tell you part of it is you watch a movie like groundhog day or the day after tomorrow whatever those movies are um and they show you the full first day and they show you the full second day but things change right pretty soon they just show you like five seconds right right because but in reality i'm thinking man tom cruise must have been really bored to go all the way up to that point again right yes in time stories you get the whole thing back through the whole thing and we were like straight up cheating after a point we're like okay we got back to this point again because why would you want to go back and do that again yeah no no yeah especially when you do loop and loop and loop i mean we did sometimes we would just pretend we'd come up to a point and roll a die and be like we failed next loop and that was saving us yeah 40 minutes each time yeah it's sort of insane right yeah it does i love the idea of it and again that first experience was good but i didn't did they even make a second one of the new one they announced it but you know what if they did we wouldn't play it yeah we didn't believe that's how much i cooled on this i i won't even go back and play the i don't even know if i want to teach people the game anymore like if someone's like hey i want to play time stories like i'll teach you but i don't want to just just get involved in this first scenario because it's good yeah and then pack it up there's a few good ones that's true early on there were some really good ones yeah and then also the novelty of what you were getting was so neat right but you're right they lost one did a really cool thing oh fantastic thing early on in that scenario there's a really cool twist this isn't on my list because i came into this much later than you guys did and i and i thought i thought it was fine you know but i didn't have this big build up and then let down you're playing caesars or something well maybe and then when i played the new one the reboot with you i thought this is terrible okay well there you go yeah all right well let's take a look at what the people chose so here are your top 10 games and again you can often vote in our top tens by going to our website to check this out so here we go number 10 through whatever you get a winner so a lot of people yeah nine is machi koro which when i saw that yeah yeah you're right i i definitely called on that very quickly and when i added expansions like like what happened to you with uh photosynthesis the expansion has made this consistently worse for me it did magical two is better it is that will help it is better eight glue maven and maybe because of jaws of the lion maybe i don't know yeah seven seven wonders which i thought was funny it was number seven right this one i'm not sure what the thing is on seven seven wonders duel seven wonders architects maybe that could be six is wingspan but that's only because wingspan is on every people's choice and i think it's yeah i do i thought it was funny that some people thought we were going to pick it i like wings i still wingspan is still in my top 50 for sure i like it a lot but i never went into it like i didn't sit down and play once and thought declared it like the best game ever yeah i warmed up to it so cooling back down from it if i was going to do that would take a longer time yeah all right number five what's number five what can number five possibly be i don't know remember all right here we go should you look at number five okay i some people thought i was gonna say it because of arc nova but i still think terrifying mars is fine there's also a difference between straight up replacing right which is a little bit different like the only reason i'm not is because there's one new game um i still like terraforming mars four is um i don't know if these are so you've got to hit the button right uh oh scythe which is weird because it's outrageous i do like scythe a lot oh yeah i still love science number three pandemic z well but pandemic i get because people they got into the hobby probably played a little ton and then they're like well i'd rather do something pandemic is a similar choice to like a dominion it's inspired a lot of stuff oh is to dominion i think dominion might be splendor though this one is interesting because when splendor came out it was played everywhere like in our game group it was playing every single night and i have ye i haven't seen it played for years now well there's a there's a gaming meme of this game is the splendor killer and i think that's kind of what it's about you know what i mean i think this is a a result of that number one which did not surprise me at all is katan sure make it i really thought it might actually katanas actually would be on my short list it would be too i would play dominion over katan and katan's the game that brought me into it i just don't want to say katan that almost feels punching down yeah i agree i think it's almost yeah it's vintage it is vintage well it is actually almost 30 years old now it would have pretty impressive yeah it would have the what's the what are the what's the word for the cars that are forget it antique antique it would have the antique plate yes the blue plates for you for you that's still it feels contemporary oh geez here we go here we go again here we go hey today is a good day i am a grandfather that is exciting um so hey uh again we're not necessarily saying these games are bad we called on them if your watches later on let us know what games have cooled for you in the comments again our games i i feel very much opposed to this idea that use of that game was great and i no people change yes the clothing you wear the music you listen to the foods you like we all change in these things yeah 100 but these are the games thank you everybody for watching until next time i'm tom vassell i'm z garcia i'm mike delecio have fun cooling down it's summertime [Music] you

Channel: The Dice Tower

Views: 211,703

Keywords: board game, board, game, dice, card game, cards, catan, monopoly, tower, dice tower, vasel, review, tom vasel, vassel, settlers, gaming, GeekUsername: TomVasel, board game review, boardgame, uno, ticket to ride, apples to apples, educational games, educational, top 10, juegosdemesa, Brettspiele, ボードゲーム, brädspel, jeuxdesociété, משחקילוח, 보드게임, deskováhra, graplanszowa, bordspel, 棋盘游戏, gioco da tavolo, desková hra, gra planszowa, настольная игра, trò chơi trên bàn cờ, jogo de tabuleiro, لعبة اللوحة

Id: v3BBhCqrHCQ

Length: 90min 22sec (5422 seconds)

Published: Thu May 26 2022