War of the Ring - Shut Up & Sit Down Review

Oh-ho-ho-ho today we catalog one of the biggest beasts in  modern board-gaming War of the Ring 2nd edition a   game in which two to four players will retell  the story of The Lord of the Rings and it's a   game so big you don't want to start it in the  evening but in the afternoon right now you're   looking at more than 200 plastic miniatures of  some bent elves deformed dwarves and even some   wonky easterling's remember them were simply  glossed over in the films they were tokens   troubling stab at including a dark-skinned people  in the books who then joined forces with the orcs   oh dear but this 2012 game has aged in some good  ways too today with Chinese manufacturing getting   more and more expensive and the price of games  getting higher and higher the War of the Ring   retelling at just $65 might be the cheapest way to  get access to a game with an ocean of components   a game so big that each player gets their own  individual player aid oh my goodness this game   is big just look what happens when you expose it  to a standard reference pear now we've talked a   lot about event games before games that you might  just buy and only play once big day experiences   like Twilight Imperium or memoir 44 Overlord now  this game is not one of those this is something   you're going to get and you're gonna find a friend  and you're gonna play with that same person again   and again and again we'll get back to that in  a bit later first of all here's the game hello   I'm playing the good guys and everything is bad  to win my opponent has to get 10 victory points   all over the map the forces of the Dark Lord  Sauron are gathering like storm clouds and as   those storms roll in every city that falls is  worth a point and every stronghold that falls   is worth 2 points in just one hour my opponent will be  worryingly close to winning the game worse and begrudgingly I have to admit in a kind of awesome  way whenever orcs get killed they just go back   to his supply because they're effectively cooked  up like boil-in-the-bag meals but whenever humans   elves or dwarves die in a process of defending  their homes they go back in the box because they   are dead dead there's no one coming to replace  them ah that's one more elf dead died defending   what he believed in goodbye Captain Glitterpants that's what elves are called isn't it they have   names like Captain Glitterpants or Barry Dinglewell And even worse than that is the politics track see every time one   of Saurons armies attacks a nation then they get  moved down the track until eventually that nation   is at war and if that doesn't happen or you don't  spend the required resources to manually kind of   politic with these guys and convince them that  maybe you know the Dark Lord he's not a good   guy then they don't go to war they can't muster  armies they can't leave their borders and they   sit there doing nothing while the whole world  goes to hell but do you know what's worst of   all you might have noticed that you're expected  to know which of these icons represents which   group of people on the board there's also no  flavour text on any of the cards which means   you're just expected to know what the palantír of  orthanc is or the book of mazarbul which sounds like   someone who's trying to pretend they're allowed  to be in the library when actually they're quite   drunk you'll also frequently find cards referring  to specific locations on the map without giving   you any estimation of where they are and as the  map gradually fills up with tiny plastic pieces   all of these tiny names get obscured as well as  much more important details like I forgot for   example this location is worth two victory  points or I didn't see there's a mountain   here this squiggly line means it's completely  impossible these bits combined with all these   tiny names and tiny places combined with squiggly  line you can't see because of plastic people I'm   just gonna say it it's flippin annoying war of the  ring is the nerd equivalent of downhill mountain   biking it's hard it's unforgiving you should  probably bring snacks at some point you're   gonna think oh I wish I was at home is that sugar  it's for energy you shouldn't you're gonna crash   out in about half an hour well how long is the game  it's about four hours oh flip ah it's alright   got another bag the odds are so stacked against me  in this game that it kindly says well yeah you   can win the game if you just get four victory  points rather than his ten but even so that's   two strongholds you've got to take over with your  meager increasingly dwindling armies a better way   to win the game however involves taking another  man's jewelry and throwing it into a big hot bin that was amazing look you see aaah yea extremely close to Mount Doom Matthew Lees that's pretty good right do I get a point for that no but instead of shoring up my armies and going to war I can instead focus on Frodo the king of the Bobbitt's now what difference can one little Bobbitt make you might think the  answer is quite a big one you see if Frodo and   his friends can make it all the way to Mordor they  can slam dunk Sauron's ring right into the middle   of Mount Doom making Sauron's tower crumble as if  it were nothing more than feta cheese and here is   where we get to War the Ring's amazing push and  pull at the start of each round both players   roll their dice although the evil player gets  a lot more dice did you really get that many   more dice than me that just that just doesn't seem  fair now the evil player can spend some of those   dice which are essentially Sauron's attention  searching for the ring instead of moving armies   but after rolling dice any eyes you roll also  get added to the search beautifully modeling   the fact that Sauron's greed gets the better  of his ambition what a doofus Sauron it is   I your servant Saruman where shall I dispatch my  orc legions send them East very well my lord Thanks   thank you my lord my lord my lord my lord I'm still here  I had I had other questions about send them East Sauruman I know how many to send east though because loads  right were you singing I'm very busy yeah of   course my lord players then alternate using these dice  to take turns you'll use this action to muster an   army or this action to play or draw a new action  card and this is a lovely system comparable to the   order cards that you might remember from shut up & sit down's coverage of the amazing memoir '44   taking this intimidating possibility space where  there's just too much to do and cramping it right   down into a fun weird decision space that might  surprise you so this turnI'm really hoping to be   able to move the fellowship down secretly through  towards Mordor but it's not what I've roled I've rolled   a couple of army dice and a mustar dice which  means I'm gonna have to adapt and do some stuff   to do with armies but where and which armies and  how right but whenever I use a character symbol   to move Frollo and the rest of the fellowship  Sauron can try and hunt them by rolling a six   on as many dice as he allocated to the search  and if Sauron does roll a six it means he gets   to put his grubby fingers into this magic cup of  bad things magic cup is not included with the game   but basically these things are bad maybe it means  corruption for Frodo he gets too much corruption   and he's dead which means you can just shuffle  off that corruption onto your fellowship friends   and they're dead and gradually the fellowship just  quietly dies following Frollo to Mordor but it's   fine it's good because the thing is if you keep moving  across the map Sauron has to spend all of these   dice looking for you scouring across middle-earth  going where is that little that little git and if   he does that it means he's wasting all of the precious dice that he needs to be waging war and   destroying you so if you can't move Frollo you go  to war and then you go to war and they go ah and   then they stop putting dice - ahh I'm Matt and everything is difficult being the good guys and everything is complicated and bad listen, I'm going to tell you now about how being the bad guy is bad because everything is bad for you okay yes as the forces of shadow you  get these giant armies and you get to sweep them   forward and push miniatures back to the box as if you are holding Satan's broom but very quickly   this board will start to lock up the forces of the  West will start retreating into strongholds which   require hellacious quantities of care to try and  unpick that are very costly in terms of manpower   and yes you can make new boil-in-the-bag orcs  but the problem there they're gonna start back   in these starting spaces and this is why War of  the Ring is such an interesting and tough dudes   on a map game because marching people around is an  incredible investment of time and actions so every   space matters which means because this board is an  infuriatingly accurate depiction of middle-earth   I'm not just fighting Matt I'm fighting all these  weird little regions like Eastern Emyn Muil Western Emyn Muil Eastemnet I mean geez  just east of druwaith iaur there's a place that's   just called erech but this very slow movement creates  a bed of tension which both players can enjoy for   the good guys Matt's just watching my big armies go boom-ba-ba-ba-ba marching towards him and that's terrifying   but for me I'm just willing those armies to arrive  already because I have no time and but what about   the Nazgul like all leaders give you re roles  in combat which is huge but your guys are leaders   who can fly around the world at will which means  you can suddenly drop all of them one place it's   terrifying just as the Nazgul should be yeah but  what he's not telling you is if I gather all of   my Nazgul in one place like noisy noisy noisy  noisy gets gothic seagulls is what they're like to me   then you know I'm going to attack there which means  you can just get more soldiers and shore up that   place ah but that really works if that area is at war  and if you've been smart and you've decided to   focus all of your attacks with one place then I  can't do anything else the dwarves the elves four   people in the Hills they're all just sitting there trying to ignore that anything's happening like   you guys are just a drunk on a bus okay so I  think maybe we've explained the game okay at this   point it's an intricate and heavyweight crush  of dice and cards and miniatures but here's the   thing here's the thing the first time we played  this game and sat down for four hours we didn't   actually enjoy it that much no War of the Ring  is just not as efficiently entertaining as most   other games we recommend it takes more than an  hour to learn the manual it takes another hour   to teach the game and maybe even another hour just  to set it up listen all these little people aren't   the same there are standard and elite and leader  units for eight different nations and by the way   at the start of this review you weren't looking  at a game in progress that's just what war of the   ring looks like when it's set up I'm 30 years old  and managed to injure my back the first time I set   this game up and then in play everyone is gonna  be constantly referring to their own reference   chart with more than 50 specific key roles and  as the person who taught the game I was constantly opening the manual thumbing these pages  looking for specific rulings lots of little   questions in your first game and also we love it  when asymmetric games result in situations   where you are constantly worried about what weird  unknown tricks the other player is gonna pull out of their sleeve and keeping you uneasy but in this  it's just exhausting as the good player you're   constantly worried about defending things you can't  your units are constantly dying everything is   going badly all the time right and as the bad  player trying to figure out how to get into   these strongholds is a nightmare it's a puzzle  that never gets easier you're trying to figure   out well how many units do I need there how many  elite units how many people do I leave behind it's   like just trying to get something and you can't  just give me the ring no come on just give it   to me I just wanna have a little look no you're  a bad man I'm not you are War of the Ring is an actual like an   actual war yes it's not always fun it's always  tiring it's going to require effort but after   that first disappointing game of war the ring a  funny thing happened Matt and I both wrote each   other the next day because on the way home we  hadn't been able to stop thinking about it this   is a hard puzzle yeah but it's also one where  your successes are rewarding and your mistakes   are heartbreakingly obvious so we played this  game again and we had a better time and we still   couldn't stop thinking about it contained within  this war this game is a richness that most board games can only dream of here's how finely balanced  this puzzle is alright in Matt and my second game I was   sieging Minas Tirith it's somewhere under there  which you might remember as the big tall white   city from the movie the Lord of the Rings now I'd  used my easterling's to sweep through Gondor which   by this point had definitely decided that Sauron was a problem which meant Matt couldn't recruit   new armies except for in little losanac the final  hold out of the armies of Gondor which meant on   his turn he could get another couple of little Gondor  soldiers and he sent them riding to their deaths   against my seiging army and what happened was they  were slaughtered they were absolutely crushed the   very last remnants of free gondor were destroyed  but in doing that they killed just a couple of   orcs and I'm looking at that as the shadow player  going oh my gosh I think that this army can't win   that seige anymore just because we've lost that  which meant I needed reinforcements but there were   no reinforcements the nearest reinforcements are  in baradur that's miles away so I thought I can't   take this city anymore which meant I had to look  elsewhere for my victory points which meant those   men who killed themselves did so and changed the  entire fate of middle-earth and this is why this   game is so engaging bordering on hypnotising it's  because every single little plastic person every   dice roll every card matters which is going to  be a nightmare for some people because you have   to absorb all of this but if you can do it and you  get through that first maybe a little bit tedious   game dare I say it you can become a lord of the  ring when Sean Bean is like one does not simply   walk into Mordor you're like I know I've tried  there's loads of orcs some of you might remember   my review of Star Wars: Rebellion a game that we  can now see was clearly modeled on more of the   ring being a strategy game that retells the Star  Wars story for just two players but with rebellion   when we finished it Matt and I just wanted to try  playing as the other side revealing that that game   was powered by novelty in War of the Ring each  time Matt and I sit down to play it we just want   to play the same side again and wrestle with that  same difficult and occasionally tedious puzzle but   equally that story of an army trying to break a  siege and giving their lives is a deeply human   story those little people that went back in the  Box got to be heroes and that's something again   in contrast to rebellion was very much lacking  stories their lacked a sense of humanity the   heroes popped around the universe and then went back  away again it was all about spaceships and that   lost something whereas here in your first game you  might find that the fellowship gets caught just outside   Rivendell and Legolas dies that's a tragedy and  maybe later that game lore'l gets taken that's   the home of cate blanchett and it gets taken by  the bad guys before Frollo gets a chance to get   in there and get given his little goodie bag  of things like a waterproof coat and a magic   biscuit terrible the thing is in your game maybe  Gandalf will die but he'll come back as Gandalf   the White but he'll immediately get eaten by a big  spider and these sacrifices all you can do is try   and make them count but you're never sure really  if they will or if they won't you just gotta hope   that they do it's a game really that's all about  faith mostly when dealing with games based on   books and movies the best you can hope for is  something that mostly feels true to the kind of   original material with this though it actually  makes me like the source material even more the   current climate of stuff in which heroes turn up  and fight a battle and then disappear and then   come back and fight another battle and don't quite  win and do it again in Lord of the Rings apart   from mr. Gandalf when people die they just die  and people frequently have battles and it's the   last stand and it is the last stand and in this  it's so easy to just fall into it and and realize   that the struggle happening on the board are your  struggles and to really think about the books and   films even more as you trudge towards mordor and  then beautifully this engagement really amps up at   the point when you do hit Mordor and superbly  both players lose control of what's happening   as the hobbits and their friends slowly trudge  towards Mount Doom and as the forces of the   West you're willing to Bobbitt's on to get to  Mount Doom and destroy the jewelry but as Sauron   you're willing those boys to succumb to darkness  Matt I've got a darkness that I'd like to succumb to I   would like to make this game even bigger with  some expansions I'd really rather you didn't what are you doing welcome traveler to Quintin's expansion Emporium  we've already got a huge amount of stuff so Ares   games sent us both expansions for War of the Ring  Lords of middle-earth and warriors of middle-earth   Lords of middle-earth is the expansion that the  war the Ring community say you should buy first   it floods the cast of this game with all kinds  of extra characters like Elrond or even the   Balrog which can leave the mines of Moria and  end up waddling around the world like a smoky   delinquent then we've got warriors of middle-earth  which adds all these extra armies as the good guys   you get ents and eagles and it's the bad guys you  get something I think is even more exciting you   get factions that didn't play a big role in Lord of the Rings but could have you get the hill men   of dunland and the spiders of Mirkwood I think and  in a first for shut up and sit down we didn't play   with either of these you see it just didn't feel  responsible you know in our play testing we were   plumbing the depths of the base game which was a  way more important task and we just didn't feel   ready to incorporate these two if you're trying  to notice all of the different flavor notes of   a whiskey it doesn't then help to have an ent in  that whiskey and spiders and Elrond and dice as   someone who adores expansions I grudgingly have  to admit that these boxes don't fix the game or   refresh it they just take a game that's big and  slow and complicated and make it bigger slower   and more complicated and once you've played war  of the ring a dozen times and can remember where   minas morgul is without even glancing at  the board that may be exactly what you want   but getting to that point could take months or  even years so where do we get to well we found   a ludicrously big and rich two-player experience  possibly the biggest two player experience that you can   get at this kind of price we found a game that I  guess I'm putting in my collection just because   it's such a lovely design it's so clever it's so  smart even though the only way you're gonna get   the most out of this game is to find one person  and play it with them at least a few times a year   so you're not gonna forget everything you learned  between games and when you do jump in again to   relearn it it's really important you really read  the rules double close because there's so many itty-bitty   things and if you've got a four-hour game where  you end up losing just because you didn't notice   there was a mountain behind those guys there or or  that you forget that the fellowship can split off   and become leaders in different armies and save  the day I kind of forgot that last time we played   which is maddening it's a bit annoying so yeah  just do that but the thing is so you're gonna   keep this in your collection even though really  you know that you're probably not gonna play it   I guess yeah that doesn't seem like it makes a  lot of sense it doesn't but you know what like   aspirations that make us feel warm are important  you know and this game does make me feel warm but   you know what there's so much about this game that  I really really hate I hate the fact that you have to remember   what the factions are based on these microscopic  sigils I hate the fact that you spend half the   game just hunched over this board trying to find  where's Ross gobble all this tiny bit as the Ybor   player I hate that every individual individual  member of the fellowship have their own rules   and there's too many that I'm gonna really bother  learning so occasional to get whomped by pippin's   special power to many Bobbitt's do spoil the  broth but the thing is I adore this game I   really do and you know what it doesn't evoke the  fantasy for me of imagining what it'd be like to   be a warrior or a wizard for me it invokes the  fantasy of imagining a life in which I've really   had the time to really play this oh that's a bit  sad hey Matt is this a fantasy that we can make   reality by the magic of green-screen Quinn's I  think it might be Hey gee-wiz Matt that sure   was a pretty great game of War of the Ring Wow I  think that's 23 games to you now and I have won 21 sure is good in - i'm catching up - in this  life where we just play war of the ring and all   other board games and jobs have been outlawed by  the government it's amazing my favorite is Barry   the Balrog huh what a charmer hey though Matt  what if there out there is a universe where   we had a job which was just telling people about  War of the Ring do you think that could happen   what like a website where we would review board  games yeah I imagine if we could imagine that world   via the medium of green screen welcome to shut  up and War of the Ring where you can find War   of the Ring reviews reviews previews podcasts articles podcasts this week we've just reviewed War the Ring of the Ring next   week it'll War of the Ring yeah please subscribe  cuz that cuz we need you to yeah if you   want to see a review or the ring next week then  subscribe on our youtube channel now like like it

Channel: Shut Up & Sit Down

Views: 1,474,475

Rating: 4.8836541 out of 5

Keywords: Shut Up and Sit Down, SUSD, SU&SD, Shut Up Show, Board Game Review, Review, Shut Up, Sit Down, Board Games, Board Gaming, Family Games, Boardgame, Board Game, Gaming, Tabletop, Fun Games, Quintin Smith, Matt Lees, War of the Ring, Lord of the Rings

Id: MvgooNB8Ck0

Length: 24min 58sec (1498 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 01 2018

Reddit Comments

[u/Jarfol]

Wow, 10 comments so far and none of them are about the review....

War of the Ring is my absolute favorite game, but all the negatives mentioned here are true. Being a Tolkien fan I know where every location is, and what every card is referencing. It is also true that your first game will just be a learning experience, and even by your second game you might not be playing correctly. But the more you play, the more fun the game is.

[u/raiden001]

Agreed. Got it for a superb price 5 years ago. And played with it like 5 times since. Every experience is amazing. SUSD got it right. It's long. Have to play with the same people. Teaching and learning is such a steep climb up the hill. But it's so good. I just bought the expansions just to keep!

[u/Caudates]

Wow! Fantastic review. Review has convinced me that i don't need to buy this. It has also convinced me that i need need need to play my friend's copy.

[u/btharveyku08]

I bought this for my brother-in-law this past Christmas.

... We still haven't played it yet. But I'm super-excited for the day that we finally do!

... Though Matt and Quinns just suggested I won't actually enjoy the first time. So maybe I'm super-excited for the second time!

[u/PunytheGreat11]

Personally, SU&SD are my favorite board game reviewers on YouTube. I don't necessarily agree with all their opinions on board games (still don't know how they didn't like scythe), but their reasons for liking or not liking something are always very well thought out.

[u/ShadowSpectre47]

For those of you who want to know how this compares to Star Wars: Rebellion, to them. They mentioned it slightly, in this video, but in the podcast the go into a little more detail on why they liked War of the Ring, more than Star Wars: Rebellion.

One of the complaints was how in Star Wars: Rebellion, the leaders kind of just pop up anywhere, do something really quick, and just dissappear, then do it again, making no thematic sense and kind of felt a little tacked on. The LOVED Rebellion, until after they played War of the Ring and came to the conclusion that they wouldn't want to play Rebellion over and over, but they would want to play War of the Ring again and again.

I should mention that I haven't played Star Wars: Rebellion.

But the most interesting part is that they had the expansions, and decided that they don't need to play them, because there's is already so much game that the want to master first. Which is how purchases for expansions should work.

Here is the link to the podcast. Starts at 23:45.

https://soundcloud.com/susd/podcast-74-the-war-of-the-stuffed-sun

Here is the Star Wars: Rebellion review.

https://youtu.be/eaEic-y_poE

[u/Deathowler]

I feel like SU&SD has been pretty much reflecting my opinion on most board games. I've rarely disagreed with them and it seems that we are on the same track constantly. I want more 2 player games and people kept suggesting that but it always felt that War of the Rings would be too complex for me. Looks like they were right.

[u/cptblaino]

We had this game first and then got Rebellion. After two plays of Rebellion, we decided if we were to sit down for either game, it would always be WotR over Rebellion, so Rebellion got traded away. War of the Ring is fantastic and well worth the time.

[u/kingslippy]

This is a great review, and I would add that if you are on the fence still or want to see more of the gameplay in depth, Ricky Royal does a solo playthrough on his channel.

Edit: Link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhkI0W7THxY&list=PL5UyaJ4tfEqx3vTZ0bRacJFScx39KNeXI