The Emotional Chaos Narcissists Bring To You, featuring Kati Morton

foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] healthy I'm so pleased to have you here with me once again as you know I like to bring different people on to talk about issues related to narcissism and what it does to us emotionally and relationally and today my special guest is a name that most of you probably know it's Katie Morton Katie young I'm so pleased to have you with me here today thank you for being with us and our audience of course thanks for having me excited to chat yeah well and and uh you've been out in uh the Los Angeles area for quite some time and now you've moved back here to Texas uh I'm in Waco just and you're straight down yeah you're right down I-35 down in Austin uh Austin's actually cooler than Waco I might add so good for you on that they all have their perks yeah yeah before we get going into our topic here today how did you get into this field and uh I know you're you're way out there in YouTube land and uh Instagram and all the rest so how did this how are you attracted into this profession um the profession itself I've always this sounds weird to say but I always get bored with other jobs and when I was younger I was pride of myself on being like The Secret Keeper you know if someone told me something I would never tell anybody else and I think probably part of the like Teenage part of me was like but I like knowing the dirt too you know if I'm being honest um and there was a psych 101 course that opened up in my high school for senior year and one of my girlfriends was like you'd be you'd love this you we should take this class together and it piqued my interest I took it loved it went to Pepperdine as a music Major and a psych major at the time fell in love with it and then obviously working in the field really solidified the fact that I did want to do it I took a year off between undergrad and my graduate school to see if I really want because graduate school is expensive the school is expensive um and I was paying for it myself so I wanted to make sure I could really see myself working in the field and just really fell in love with it because it's always changing right I never get bored patience people are interesting right and I find it so fulfilling well and and that resonates with me thank you uh I find it interesting you went both into music and psychology I don't guess you would have any way of knowing my my wife has a master's degree in vocal performance oh very classically trained like Opera and all and so uh there's her and singing and then there's me you know Hank Williams there's a place for both right I really like Hank Williams so well I I exaggerate so I appreciate that combination quite we have that in our home I just didn't have I have half of it so anyway well I want to talk today about the fact that narcissists bring so much chaos into a relationship and and what I'd like to do is I'd like to hear your thoughts about emotionally what we can expect from that narcissistic person and what's going on inside of them because it's so essential for us to know that and then how it can impact the recipient and that's going to be most of our audience and then emotionally how they get triggered um so let's just start with your understanding of narcissism in general I know that you have such a broad number of topics that you zero in on but when when you begin realizing somebody is seemed to be strongly narcissistic what kind of things tend to stand out to you that lets you know that's what you're dealing with yeah I think the best way for me personally to kind of consider a narcissist as a whole is think of like a Faberge Egg so the outside is very pretty it looks very good because narcissists can be really charismatic people usually really like them the ones that don't know them very well and they put up this really pretty front everything looks really good but it's very thin and underneath is someone filled with shame um a lot of self-deprecation in general narcissism isn't always but can be born out of trauma so there's often just this fragile sad angry person inside but because they don't want to acknowledge those emotions that they're experiencing they put up this front and pretend that they're they've got it all together and they're doing great in that we refer to that as their fault self that they're deeply committed to 100 and so keeping that in mind when someone in any small way you might even not perceive it as a non-narcissist but you scratch at that false Persona that false self right that Faberge Egg of them they lash out because the like you said they hold on to that very strongly and the Potential Threat of that that protection you know is so dangerous to them that they will lash out to keep that up and so usually we find narcissists reveal themselves when there's some kind of someone that usually goes along with them doesn't or someone they they say one of their big lies about a story and someone's like that's not no that's not what happened and they're in front of people they want to impress right anything that could kind of potentially Force someone to peek behind this foul self or scratch at it just a little bit they will they will lash out in a ton of different ways it could be verbally assaultive you know through text messages it could be any kind of way verbally that way they could also try to you know people talk about flying monkeys but they'll have people who kind of do their bidding and shame other people like how dare you're such a liar right they come out and they like discredit you um yeah I mean the ways are endless and we can get into that but that's kind of how I conceptualize a narcissist and why they can be so volatile because the upkeep of that false self takes a lot of energy exhausting yeah I love that the Faberge Egg analogy because I mean as you're saying that it's like oh that is so completely spot on um one of the uh the things that we know about narcissists is they they come across with a lot of their control agenda uh obviously they're highly self-absorbed Etc and and they can be very condescending I I think it's interesting for us to first and you were already touching on it but when you're and by the way another thing I wanted to mention that you uh you said that um it's when you have the disagreements that it starts to come out the way I put it is you can tell uh the the measure of healthiness that a person has by watching how they manage conflict yeah it's really easy for me to be nice to you when you and I agree on everything um but the mark of maturity is how you manage your conflict and and you're you're so spot on uh the moment they sense some conflict and here comes their dysfunction uh but before we get to that but what did we now what would you say are some of the lead um emotional ingredients that a narcissist will portray once they start uh unraveling because I mean the first thing I would think of is their anger and their haughtiness Etc I mean what do you notice along those lines yeah rage was what I think I feel like people who are narcissists can usually it's like their whole body's filled with anger um so I think of that yes agree with you on that one and honestly I think jealousy is a huge piece of it too because we have to remember again they don't feel like a good person they don't feel that think of Shame and embarrassment and low self-esteem that's like right below the surface so they're putting up this front that we see and we think oh but they feel good no they don't and so the the anger will come the the jealousy the sadness I think a lot of them are very deeply depressed and sad again we might not see that but that's happening you know what I mean I think for those of us on the receiving end we see a lot of the lashing out and the manipulation and the degradation right that they'll do to people and so those are I feel like that's like the biggest bucket for me you know the way I put it is it's like you're one wrong sentence or comment away from their irritability yes and uh you know if you're maybe having a conversation and you say the wrong thing or like you say no I don't see it that way uh then sometimes it can come out like they're just annoyed at you other times it's like boom uh it's allowed and then or they can express condescension or contempt Etc by the way taking an aside when uh John gottman you know the researcher uh came out with his four horsemen it's like okay he's talking about the the four ingredients that predict the end of a marriage relationship but he's also whether he intended to or not he's talking about narcissism too yes at the top of the list of uh ingredients that shows that a person is you know their relationships are going to come apart he talks about the contempt and and so I guess we can say that one of the things that we'll see is if you get on the back side of the Nars or the bad side of the narcissist you're going to see that um let's go a little bit more deeply into what you were saying uh you see what's on the outside uh but on their interior you've mentioned shame and that's I I find that people have a hard time sometimes appreciating how fully of a an ingredient that is on the inside of that narcissist talk about that in terms of what their experience there is and how that's impacting the way that they engage with you yeah I think shame is is talked about a lot but maybe not fully understood so I know people be like oh I felt so ashamed we use the term ashamed a lot and we have to think shame isn't just oh I did something bad it's I am bad like something's broken right for me um I've heard from a lot of members in my audience especially those of us with you know complex trauma will think like something's just wrong with me right I keep attracting this and it's always my fault something's broken inside of me and this is why this happens so a narcissist actually experiences a deep level of that because like I said it isn't always but a lot of times it is born out of trauma and this fake facade and all of the nastiness that we see is really a protection and so and again I'm not saying this to condone their behavior or to say that it's okay for them explains what's going on yeah and I think it gives us like a you can unders I like to know the why you know because narcissists don't really have reasons in the moment to act the way they do right everything's an overreaction and I know we give the term overreaction kind of like it's such a bad thing but I'm like no in the therapy world I'm like it's helpful because something else is going on right that's your little like indicator like a life yeah yeah you're like hey and even for me as a regular person I always encourage everybody like if you are overreacting take that and try to understand why listen to it right because it's telling you something I'm really nobody else seems as upset about this as I am maybe I need to take better care of myself communicate my needs maybe I need to speak you know there's all sorts of things but narcissists struggle so much with shame and I didn't assume like a very low level of confidence and they do like this opposite action right they pretend to be we put up this false self because that feels just too uncomfortable for them to acknowledge and they're pretty much refusal to acknowledge the pain that they feel or the the shame the blame the guilt the embarrassment whatever that is just too raw that essentially the false self is like a defense mechanism and it's so important for them to keep up that defense mechanism that they will do any and everything in their power and so what we'll see the biggest component I believe of in dealing with a narcissist is manipulation and that comes in the form and we talk a lot about gaslighting right now I feel like everybody thinks that someone's saying I remembered that differently they're like stop gaslighting me I'm like no we can have different memories of situations you and I are going to experience the same situation differently right however if I'm doing that with the goal of manipulating you to do something else for me that's when it's gaslighting and so I think considering that manipulation component that's kind of where it comes from and why it's such a key it plays such a key role in the dysfunction of relationships with narcissists uh I'm tracking so much with you uh so many things that you're saying um I I I've been asked before if you had to pick one characteristic or ingredient of narcissism that illustrates that that person has indeed crossed the line into the narcissistic World which would it be and and I too will say well what I watch for is the manipulative exploitive tendency you know every one of us at some moment can have a controlling aspect or sometimes we overload somebody else's feelings so that lower level of empathy might oops I slipped in but uh you know we can we can correct ourselves but when a person is very willing to come back and manipulate and exploit and use you as if you're just some sort of toy to play with that's when we know we're dealing with somebody who's really troubled yeah and then going to that shame thing um the one of the ways I put it and you tell me what you think about this is that um narcissists very early on learned that there's a big huge grading system out there there's a lot of judgment and you show yourself to the world whether it's the person in front of you or a group and you are going to be graded and so uh on one hand they fear that great Asian and uh but then they also decided what I'm going to do is I'm going to become the one who pronounces shame and so they they see in you what they won't come to terms with on the inside of themselves which of course is their projection I mean does that track with with where you are in your thinking as well yeah 100 I think it is kind of part of it's a manipulative tactic right in a way it's almost like and maybe it's not fully manipulation but it's almost like instead of them admitting to themselves about what's going on they push it onto others that transference of you know oh no you're the one that's doing this right they call you all the names claim you're doing all the things that they're actually doing and feeling that they don't want to admit because they're whether they want to recognize it or not they're in their subconscious somewhere they're aware that that's happening does that make sense oh yeah and there's another element that a lot of people just um blow right past and you said something that triggered that thought in me uh narcissists um have a deep fear or dread of loneliness yes and when I say that they're constantly looking for admiration do I matter uh can I connect with you do you think I'm okay and the implication is because if I'm not that means it's just me out here in this cold Stark world and and most people don't really see that that's that's the dread that they carry on the inside and so we say that narcissists carry a lot of chaos I mean just in this short little conversation we're already having we can see there's a lot of unfinished business that they bring to the equation but as you're insinuating instead of saying I need to take ownership of that well yeah and I mean and that's the the difficulty with it right but I love I do want to talk a little bit about the fact that you know they need that we call it Supply right they need that like to suck the life out of other people because they need all that energy they need all that aberration that affirmation because they can't give it to themselves exactly they're empty and that's what can make them so volatile right especially if people ghost them and cut them out of their life that's extremely triggering because then they're automatically like oh my God I'm alone I need to fill that right so don't be surprised if you leave a narcissist or cut them out or or even just have boundaries with them don't be surprised that they all of a sudden have someone else that they're engaging with that they tell you about like look how great this person is and you know it's them engaging with a new Supply because again they can't give that to themselves but there is a huge piece and this applies to everybody but we all have our struggles right we all have difficulties there's going to be certain conflicts that I don't engage with in the right way because it poked my buttons and I'm not mad you know maybe my resilience is down I haven't taken care of myself but the difference between a narcissist and the rest of us is that I would come back around let's say a few hours later maybe the next day and be like I'm so sorry I was having such a hard time and this is what I you know this is where it came from and I just want to apologize or let's make this right right someone will will say sorry for the thing not apologize that you feel bad right that's not an apology I'm so sorry you feel that way it's like such manipulation yep so I'll apologize for what I did we'll figure it out I want to work on this we'll move forward that's normal conflict resolution that's you know obviously we'd hope that it could happen in the moment but it's not perfect The Narcissist can't do that yeah I refer to that my uh my viewers on my channel is team healthy and one of the things I talk about is um healthy people aren't perfect uh but when our flaws and Imperfections show up we take ownership of it yeah and it's like you know I I blew it or I did this wrong or I was overlooking this and they'll receive input and feedback and like you say uh what another key ingredient of narcissism is they can't and won't take responsibility because we go back to that shame well if I admit that there's something wrong with me then oh this is not going to work out well then that facade is ruined right forever ruined and I think that's kind of that what people think of a lot of times when they don't fully understand a narcissist they'll think like oh they're just like both full and full of themselves that's like a very very small piece but that's where this comes in right if I let them see that I'm not perfect and that this isn't like I'm not the best person in the room then that means I have to admit all this other stuff and I can't I mean I can't even look at it the analogy at the tip of the iceberg they're showing you the tip of the iceberg and they don't want you to see everything that's beneath the surface there so yeah okay so we have that person that's going to be in the equation and then you have the individual who's trying to figure out how to engage with that narcissistic person and Katie I know that you've talked a lot about your own growth trajectory and with depression or anxiety and things like that and working hard to make sure that that's something you yourself are able to maintain and manage uh when you whether it's in your own personal and by the way I had a professor way back in the day that said Les you're not going to be able to guide anyone any further than where you yourself are able to go and if he was issuing a challenge you know those of us who are in the therapeutic World need to make sure that we're constantly upgrading we know about ourselves and all like that so I I we need to be honest about that what's going on with that recipient uh all of this narcissistic chaos and dysregulation that that person brings what do we typically see uh particularly as a person is struggling with that narcissistic person yeah I'd say the number one thing is the walking on eggshells feeling which can come along with I know we use that term a lot but what I mean is almost like an extreme version of this or we feel almost responsible right I have to do everything perfectly so that I don't set them off you know how they get and a spouse of a narcissist can say things like yeah yeah I know how they are you know don't let's not let's not talk to them about they'll try to protect the narcissist from real conflict and real conversations because they know it's going to set them off and then essentially everybody's gonna have to pay for it right so that sets this kind of family dance if this is your family right if you're the child the census family dance off where it's like well we don't talk let's say Mom we don't talk to Mom about tough things and if she comes in the room we if we feel something's off about her shut it down act perfect do whatever your role is right I was in a setting where we were with a family and uh there was one particular person in the family that was just wheels off overwhelmingly controlling and opinionated and shut everybody down and so it's kind of like everybody in the room nude don't say this because you know how that person gets whether there was a new person in the in the odd in the in the group and you can hear it coming uh that person started talking about topics and everybody else in the room is watching they weren't abiding by the rules oh you just broke the rules by breaking up this subject and of course it the predictable happened but it is crazy you have this walking on eggshells kind of feeling and the narcissist really is so fragile but uh but you feel fragile because it's like well I can't go into that space you know how they get yeah and it's not worth it to us right because the Fallout or the emotional abuse that will sustain the manipulation and all the just swirl the stuff we were talking about right that kind of like lash out can be too much and it's just not worth it and so we just don't do certain things don't talk about certain subjects or act in a specific way and so that on edge response can I mean it can and there's so many layers right if if the person does lash out that's emotional abuse and we can have a post-traumatic stress response you know yeah and a lot of my uh patients and viewers who grew up with a narcissistic parent will have like dissociative episodes so like I don't remember huge chunks of time and like probably because your parent was busy lashing out and you just couldn't tolerate it right it's too much for your system to manage and so I think considering all of the kind of the quote unquote why behind why a narcissist does what they do you can see how painful that would be for the person on the receiving end and the fact that they're going to need you to give them affirmations and support and all of this know that you're probably not going to get that back unless they think that you're slipping away and they need that Supply then they might do some little love bombing stuff for a short period to keep you held just you know but it but know that it's very short-lived we're talking maybe a week maybe a month but probably not very long and it can kind of you know it's hard for them to do that it takes energy from them so it usually doesn't last very long yeah you got that right uh you mentioned that uh they can be very uh that we can be very thin skin in dealing with them uh I find that it's so natural or easy to become defensive when you're in the presence of the narcissist but then one of the things we know about narcissism is uh because they're in that protective mode that you just described uh they're pathologically defensive uh I mean there's a huge thick shield around it's like I will not be vulnerable you will not get to know me on any kind of deep level and then it comes back to so why do I need to defend myself uh to someone who's that weak and and off base um what do you notice going on with that person who uh responds so different offensively to their offensive comments which is their part of their defensiveness keep it on you uh well what do you notice along those lines I mean there's a couple of things that came to mind when you're talking about that first is it's interesting because if we do get defensive it's almost like we give we give up our power right because then we're we're like on our heels we're we're we're like uh we're responding and reacting not in a thoughtful way it's just that innate reaction it's normal like you said it's normal to get defensive but know that a narcissist will then say they'll turn it around because manipulation is their biggest key so then they'll say like well sure I did something that hurt your feelings but now you're yelling at me so I'm the victim yeah and that's that's the scenario everything and so before it's it's hard this is a new muscle for those of us if you have to engage with a narcissist because my encouragement is always just to limit the amount of time because it's so taxing but if you have to engage with them the best thing to do is to keep your cool and remove yourself from the situation because the second we get defensive is the second that they they're gonna like maximize that okay I've got you running now well I'm gonna keep chasing you down yep and the more energy you give to it the better they feel about it you know look how look how disregulated they are how crazy they are look at them lashing out they're they're always such a bad person look at this you know that's just they're going to use that to fuel their own false sense of self like see look how right I am I told you they were crazy one of the things that narcissist is like to do is to create what we would call the power differential I'm the authority you're not and uh they want to make sure that you understand which end of that question you're on um you mentioned something a few minutes ago about how narcissists don't have anything internally to draw upon they have that emptiness the implication is if you or I are on the receiving end of a narcissist emotional dysregulation we need to have something internal upon and so uh and that I know that I'm going to ask you a question regarding what that means but not that ultimately that's what therapy is so much about and it's not just a one-time here's the answer go didn't go and do that likewise it's not quite that simple but what is that something that we need or those some things that we need to have from the inside out as we engage with the narcissists who's bringing all of their unresolved chaos to us yeah and that is what therapy is all about and it's the it's part of even my own personal work it's essentially there's kind of two components we could call it all resilience we could put it under this umbrella of resilience and resilience is really just our ability to weather life storms right I have enough support I take care of myself like I'm I'm drinking enough water eating sleeping taking medication is prescribed treating any illness right I'm doing all these basic things so that when life throws things at me I can handle it I don't fly off the handle right um some people call it like spoons like how many spoons do you have um whatever you want to call it we have a limited amount and the more that we give to that it's like we're putting it in our resilience bank and so building that up is going to be key but then there's there's kind of this like I feel like more specific to this scenario is that we need to have positive internal dialogue because the narcissist is going to say some really nasty things and they're gonna try this is the tricky part especially if it's a family member because they know enough about you to take some threat of possible truth and that's where they get you and they try to cause this like fissure in your sense of self essentially transferring onto you what they feel let's just be honest but it's very wounding right because they're like oh one time you shared with me in confidence that you thought you were a little you're gaining a little weight or that you're I don't know your spouse was more attractive you're talking to me about how angry I am what about you blowing up last week you know that kind of thing exactly even score always keeping score they've got laundry lists for days of things that have been done to them data gatherers they are exactly they don't forget and so they'll pull some of those things to really wound you and the only way to combat that because we again we don't want to get defensive we don't want to lash out we'll just then we're giving them what they want instead it's to remove yourself and take care of yourself and have some positive internal dialogue where you're like well I know that this there's a quote that I love that's like I would never take feedback um from someone I wouldn't turn to for advice consider that this person is not a healthy resource this isn't someone you turn to and be like I know the world am I letting that person determine where I'm going to go in the next five minutes exactly and to affect my mood that much right because that's where our power comes from is the ability to again like handle that storm and before and after engaging with a narcissist it's good to take care of yourself because it's like I said it's really taxing it kind of goes against what we want to do naturally right and and it's hard for us to understand that this person doesn't have empathy that's really something that I for those of us with empathy we can't imagine a life where we can't put ourselves in someone else's position or consider another you know without what it could give to me right it's this it's just impossible in some ways for us to feel that but that's what they experience you know one of the things you're mentioning is that they like to find out what's wrong with you and then they're just gonna go camp out on it yeah and I would tell patients um what if you decided you know there are some things wrong with me that's my starting point and then the rest of it is and I'm gonna learn to love myself lumps bumps bruises and all and oh by the way I'm continuing to work on those those things too I'm I'm always in a progressive kind of Direction and so what you do is you uh you headed off at the past and the narcissist makes it their job to say let me tell you what's wrong with you it's like yeah now got me on that I did have that uh episode last week and uh why don't you and I work on that together here while we're talking about it right now of course they can't do that of course when you say yeah I I accept the fact that I do have flaws yeah because instead of getting combative or defensive it's like you're you're giving them your tools they they don't know how to use well and they don't know how to be vulnerable and human and honest about who they are and so if when you have that self-accepting Honesty even as you're continuing in your growth mode it's like to me it's your way of saying hey if you think that was going to knock me off my chair that didn't work what else you got yeah and it's like I'm and to your point consider the source these are damaged individuals and that's what damaged people do um and so but I'm gonna be okay even in the moments that you're not okay and that that takes a lot of um free uh preconditioning if you will okay the next time they say this here's my mindset yeah you kind of have to practice I always tell people have to pretend that they've said something and like pretend saying role-playing can help because I do dialectical behavior therapy a lot so we talk about emotion mind and wise mind and when they start to poke it's really hard to not get in that emotion mind and be reactive but that's not going to help us we have to stay in Wise mind where we say you know what I know better I'm gonna own up and I'm gonna let's work on this because if you ever say that to a narcissist hey yeah I admit I have some faults why don't we talk this through and work on it together so that you can work on your stuff and I can work on my stuff that they're like in a short circuit they don't know how to deal with that I have two questions that I like to ask people sometimes um now question number one is what characteristics what traits would you like to have most predominant your personality and you know people say things like well I want to be patient or I want to be understanding or respectful that's a good that's always a good one and so we get multiple uh uh answers to that question then the second question is in what circumstances are you least inclined to be that way um and and that's that's your uh wise uh person and your emotional person and uh well I'm least likely to be that way when someone is accusing me or or is just uh uh raging or uh they're in some form or another invalidating me and then the question is well can you go ahead and remain consistent with with the traits that you want to maintain even when that narcissistic individual is doing absolutely nothing to help your cause and then when you're able to pull that off that's when you know you're making progress 100 and it also won't be perfect right sometimes there's there's situations like when you were talking about that I'm like yeah being uh you know called names or shamed or tried to be put down or lashed out at is gonna it's gonna be hard right but there's also like consider when there's a lot of turmoil in your life in general things are really stressful maybe you're going through a big transition at work or home or you know a lot of things can throw us off we just want to get up and try again you know and make sure that the next time we engage is better than the last and we held our cool for a little bit longer and we you know all the things just little by little will get better uh Katie one of your books is called traumatized and uh you know one of the things that that happens when you uh have that narcissistic person uh in your life they can just some sometimes the trauma is just extremely large with uh really bad rage episodes or a major abusive kind of episodes and then sometimes it's the old Death By A Thousand Cuts they just Whittle away over and over and over and then as you wind up losing your sense of self that's when that trauma Bond begins to occur can you talk about how that happens yeah a trauma bond is is similar to what we've also called like Stockholm syndrome and the way that a lot of people have a tough time understanding this from the outside because it looks like someone who is in relationship with a narcissist or their abuser in general they can become defensive of them they they really love them and they want to be with them in the the codependency and enmeshment is so intense that it's they don't have a self without that other person right and the reason this happens is what a lot of people now call like fawning it's like the fourth stress response we have fight flight freeze and then we have Fawn and fawn is kind of what it sounds like your phone you're like people pleasing to an extreme with the hope that if I again remember talk about walking on eggshells with the hope that if I do everything just right then I won't get hurt again because I know that deep down they love me I know that deep down they want to get better I know we try to make it is you're filtering who you are through that person based on what you think their reaction might be exactly you cease to exist in a real way and that's yep exactly and so we we essentially lose ourselves in that relationship with that person and don't feel like we can exist without them and I know that sounds really maybe crazy to other people or how would this happen it's self-preservation a lot of times like I said it's that fourth stress response maybe we tried fighting didn't work maybe we tried leaving we got pulled back in maybe we just tried freezing the news continued this is our we're trying this instead and especially if we grew up in it it can be even harder for us to have a strong sense of self before the narcissistic abuse began well and Katie we could go on and on I mean as I'm listening to you you're uh you're you're where I was 30 years ago I guess uh and I'm I'm so grateful for people in your generation to be speaking into this and taking your own experience and and sharing it in a very real and um and pertinent kind of way um before we ramp here is there is there any um it just kind of left words of wisdom for lack better way to put it uh that you would share with our audience about you know when you have that person who themselves is chaotic on the inside and uh they have all of this dysregulation and you're trying to be the better alternative um what what are we going to have to focus on primarily so that we don't get sucked into that whole pattern focus on yourself and the things that feel good to you focus on your other relationships I know not everyone can get away from the narcissist in their life or maybe isn't ready to right sometimes it's a parent or a sibling or even a spouse make sure you put effort into what I call like your breath in right the things that are regenerative and feel good instead of all that breath out because breath out is energy out and it can be really draining so you know even just checking in with yourself how long should I spend with them yeah is it 30 minutes that I can handle before I need like recovery time is it an hour is it too you know pay attention and and do your best to hold that boundary yeah narcissists are obviously famous for wanting to be in control and what I mean you say is well I'm not going to hand the control buttons on to them I need to be the one punching those buttons inside of myself yeah and that's why it's good if you can again if you don't live with them to meet them somewhere and say I have to leave by this time and you leave at that time those are just basic healthy boundaries they're gonna push back yeah and they're going to try this Overstock but you will feel good leave doing what you said you do and that again allows for more of that breath in more of the time spent on you and minimizes that energy suck essentially uh Katie Morton thank you so much for being with us here today uh you've been doing the YouTube thing about twice as long as I have for a long time yeah go get them and uh you're media Savvy and all of that you're on Instagram and um I'm sure uh Twitter and all the rest and people can find you at katimorton.com and that's where your books will be uh now remember we have the book traumatized and the other one is are you okay is that correct yes okay Katie and it's k-a-t-i no e on the end of it k-a-t-i Morton and uh.com and uh people can find where you are there and uh make use of all the resources you have thanks so much for being part of our team healthy discussion here and uh I I hope through our paths are going to be able to cross again as we uh going down the road okay yeah me too thanks for having me you're doing such good work thanks Katie thanks you too all right bye-bye bye-bye

Channel: Surviving Narcissism

Views: 150,698

Keywords: Kati Morton, gaslighting, narcissism in relationships, self esteem, psychology, mental health, covert narcissist, Dr. Les Carter

Id: 3LUkX5N5SW4

Length: 39min 31sec (2371 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 25 2023