The $500 40K Army Challenge - How many factions can still be called AFFORDABLE?

foreign [Music] ER podcast episode 47 I'm your host Brad this is my co-host Eric how's it going and we have an interesting episode this week we're on our break but the mood struck me so I've spent many an hour setting this episode up for Eric's enjoyment yeah I've got no idea what we're doing he's just like hey you're gonna be able to record and I was like yeah I guess I can I guess I can do that so without any further Ado let's jump into our mystery topic sounds good all right on this week's episode I spent a few dozen hours in a Fugue going through way too much detail so that you can all be entertained by me slowly losing my mind how exciting Eric you're in the dark SD what the subject even is people who pay attention to our YouTube channel may actually already know yeah I've been busy this this break has not been much of a break for me it rarely is for us yeah so yeah I've got no idea this this is gonna be interesting so I threw out a question on the poor Hammer YouTube channel we were celebrating we hit 2500 subscribers huzzah hell yeah but I also added on a poll how many of the 21 factions in 40K do you think you can buy a 2 000 Point Army for 500 MSRP MSRP alright so 500 a 2K Point Army that's tough there are 21 factions if you'd like to give your guess uh custodius jump out as likely uh I mean there's got to be a way to make Space Marines work just because they're Space Marines like I don't I don't know but I'm sure that there's enough random boxes of like there's probably a way to do Space Marines maybe Knights but probably not I actually don't know how many like War hounds you get for prices but that might be possible you mean War Dogs War hounds is an entirely different scale yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um I don't think there's any other ones that would jump out to me so I had previously brought this up to the patrons just in one of the Warhammer channels and one of them pointed out Knights immediately in the comments of the poll multiple people pointed out Knights already so I broke it down uh 80 of people currently think it's less than five armies I would agree yeah 13 of people believe it's five to ten two percent believe it's over 10 but not to 20. with MSRP there's no way and five percent of hopefuls believe all but one I mean I get that yeah and when we started playing it was pretty well assumed that about half the armies more or less you could make like 2 000 points for like 500 bucks yeah something like that and we only started two years ago it's not like we're talking about 19 Diggity 2 here yeah we're talking about 2020. okay so I'm assuming you've done an insane amount of research and spreadsheets and trying to figure out I we're not going with like Tournament winning lists we're going with like something that's usable not awful right okay so let me take us into this I'm going to start with my rules I gave myself okay so rule number one no secondary Market no eBay no mini swap stuff like that I can't tell if someone's got a killer deal rule number two MSRP only which I never recommend buying at MSRP yeah on Amazon there's a 15 discount on every single model GW makes like do not buy MSRP models ever yeah and like you can probably find better uh my next rule rule number three here is no holiday boxes okay they're currently it's Christmas there are holiday boxes out it would be very easy for me to cop out and say hey a week before this episode airs if you had gotten a holiday box you could have gotten an army for 2 000 points for under five hundred dollars yeah and the good ones are gone in minutes the bad ones are gone in weeks yeah it's a good good thing to not count yeah so we're only going with eternal quote-unquote boxes things that are gonna last the Edition right rule number four and this is an important one because I didn't want to cop out in this way either no purposely expensive unplayable model I'm not doing a war how Titan okay so don't cheat on stuff like that that's fair I'm not gonna buy stompas to make Orcs 2 000 points hey man stompas are awesome screw you and my fifth rule is a little nebulous but it's more like an ethics rule I'm trying to minimize points spent on like useless models not just duplicates but like really bad things to duplicate if you look at all the space between combat patrols they managed to shove a 75 impulsor in each one it makes the box look like it's a better value but owning two impulsers kind of sucks owning three impulsors is nearly useless only four impulsers is actual useless laughs yeah so that's there we're gonna try not having multiple impulsers with our rules in place here's our goal you need 2 000 points for five hundred dollars we need to average four points per dollar okay this sounds doable at first yeah I mean like the first thousand points not too difficult yes it comes down to a couple things so when I put it in perspective like that certain people are probably like oh cool this is definitely pretty easy other people who have seen what MSRP is on most armies just went oh wait yeah yeah looking at you admac it gets worse so there are certain armies that weren't even worth calculating they were so bad yeah to get into the actual how many there are there are only four armies that you can do this with with my rule set that's not bad I mean it's not good it's worse when you find out who the armies are ah okay [Laughter] so we can talk about some of the ones that failed before we get into the main four okay let's talk about who didn't make it uh these are honorable mentions for people who got close Okay so one of them is demons demons got ridiculously close really that's not one I would have thought of at all the new combat Patrol is essentially start collecting corn yeah they did a sneaky mischievous play in the original start collecting corn there was a skull Cannon okay the skull Cannon kit is also like the herald on blood Throne right sure which has a new name now I'm not going to remember yeah I was like it seems like that's not what it's actually called but yes yeah so you can either build it as the herald on foot and the skull Cannon or you can build it as the herald on blood throne in the new box they suspiciously cut out the herald and put it in the box without the rest of the kit oh so you can only build Harold on foot you can't put him on the blood throw and you can't build a skull Cannon as a spare unit okay that sucks yes I thought it was a shoe-in I didn't realize that there isn't a skull cannon In The Box uh so I ended up short even if I use like a bloodthirster kitted out with extra point or with extra money or if I do the thing that got me closest was don't even do a blood thirst or do bellacor and for like yeah twenty dollars over budget if you use bellacor who would rather have be a bloodthirster for flavor if we're going pure corn uh you could do a a Soul Grinder as the last unit like 520 hit like 1900 in some spare points where you're like just shy that's pretty close yeah so demons was a bit shy I mean there is the other problem with that of like you're playing corn you're not really chaos demons you're you're corn it's just inches out of the question there goes out of the question is out of the question I think they should be separate armies but they are one Army so technically you get what you get uh sister's a battle I knew it was a stretch I could see that being pretty close though isn't there combat Patrol solid so yes their combat Patrol is quite good two of them is honestly pretty decent uh especially if you know how to do a little bit of modeling uh if you kick bash a bit two of those can be very good they also have two very expensive named characters who are used universally right that does help unfortunately after you burn all that you have very little left to finish it and sisters kits outside of those characters are gigantic money sinks yeah I didn't know that sisters got to like 1700ish points and then fell flat because I couldn't finish it right and it would actually take a couple hundred bucks to finish it oof which I mean but at the same time like the combat Patrol for sisters is like a solid option kind of thing so you'd have at 1700 you'd get a decent option but yeah it's kind of two ways because like it's a solid option but you have to know those are the easy to build kits they do not have options you are stuck mono like load out what is there is what is there if it was the full kits it would be an amazing combat Patrol right because you could actually make changes yeah as it stands it's kind of iffy to buy more than two of it and again it it would be a much higher value even if just the sisters of battle was a normal kit okay so I mean that it sucks that they didn't make it but it's pretty close yeah Orcs got close I obviously could have forced to jamming a Stomp and yeah I pulled out like all of the stops with Orcs I got into like orc kit bashing forums for like hey if you've got a second war boss and mega armor here's how you turn them into a big mechan Mega armor and like [ __ ] like that right like I went deep on Orcs and could not make it past like 1750. yeah I was gonna say like Orcs on like paper sounds like impossible but then I was thinking like oh yeah you can do like massive kit bashes and it'll be perfectly orky but some of those kits are pretty expensive yeah so like it kind of relies you have to do gas to get close yes and I mean gas is great so he's a great unit so oryx got close and I thought it was going to originally uh but I was very sad I couldn't actually get there yeah and I mean that is with a lot of work though as well like kit bashing and stuff like that but I mean it's in the spirit of Orcs to Kip Ash so perfectly reasonable to do that the biggest shock for me was I could not get dracari up to 1900 and something points and call it good drukari's combat Patrol is in my opinion one of the best combat patrols out there for starting a faction buying two of it is like infinite money like there's no way based buying three of it gets a little bit on the like we're probably going too far but you could do it if you were like really into the cabalite portion of the army right because that comes with a bunch of troops and then the boats right two is it two of the boats it's uh one boat that is the tank boat which is an upgrades Brew the other boat is just the transport boat okay and then it comes with an archon it comes with your troops and it comes with five ink you buy ah uh and because no one ever puts people on the boats we all just use the boat as the model you end up with a ton of spare cabinets and can load out all sorts of crazy loadouts and have like a bunch of spirits how I always did my cab lights too okay and it's like a famous thing like scari the rukari YouTube guy uh he has whole things about it he's done plenty of videos on it that makes sense great starting point absolutely easy to get to like 1500 points very cheap but then you run into elves problem where like our [ __ ] is cheap and you know like trade pieces they're they're right they're supposed to trade up their very frail low value stuff like that which means unfortunately the dollar to point ratio nosedives and then we have Photon ah it's kind of cheating though isn't it because like there's not enough of it there's not enough of it true uh my problem is who the [ __ ] priced these kits well yeah holy [ __ ] they're made of gold or something the photon kits are insane they're they're start collecting box the combat Patrol is like mediocre value even with the fact that they all got jacked up in points and I was like okay I can sort of make this work double call kind of sucks but you could do the named one in normal call and then after that I was like all right I've got a good chunk of the army with 200 to spend the basic tank is a hundred and ten dollar kit yeah but it's so cool [Laughter] whoever priced votan is a criminal should be should be tried for war crimes yeah it that is expensive isn't the like smaller thing the little transport unit thing is like an 80 kit or 65 kit or something insane it's fairly expensive I saw that as well and I was like oh it's smaller than a rhino yet it somehow costs like an extra 20 over a rhino I you can buy a Ninja Turtles truck for like twenty dollars on Amazon yeah get out of here oh so yeah voton is a no unfortunately even with the giant Point increases they just ate yeah okay to round out the xenos we've got tyranids also didn't make the cut it was kind of a long shot I didn't even do it at first but then someone was talking about how good value the star collecting was so I did the math and it just doesn't make it and you end up with like 60 70 hormacons or termagons or something which is a lot of a single unit quite a bit yeah and it's the wrong gaunt for like what's good right now technically hormigans is the good one right now and turn my guns aren't very good that does change so it's not important but I'm just saying like yeah I was like and it's not terrible no it's a playable unit but having that many it was correct in eighth edition to own 70 of them but I don't think the GW wants that yeah and that's that is the other thing is like it feels more and more like gw's trying to get away from the massive number of models that some armies were trying to do you know like orc spam so yeah so nids is out and then we get to the ones that could have been these ones are held back by their start collectings okay death guard thousand suns and Chaos space brains are criminal death guards like I I'll assume that you're right on the other ones but like death guard's the one that immediately popped to my mind it was like that's just trash like death guard is the worst start collecting that exists I keep calling him star collecting their combat patrols whatever it's insane it honestly is insane death guard is shocking that I couldn't make it work because death guard is one of the like in eighth edition it was what are the cheapest armies it's Space Marines and death guard death guard cannot work it doesn't actually get close I get stuck at like 16 1700 points is it just because like they're actual kits are not expensive well it's because in eighth edition they were the necrons so they had 15 box sets Okay and they had really cheap easy to build kits that mysteriously disappeared and were replaced by very expensive versions oh foreign so you can't really do death guard cheap anymore thousand sons has start collecting zongor which is very unfortunate because Scarab called Terminators are so Point heavy that thousand Sons might have been able to get there if their combat Patrol box was not actual crap they have some I don't know some fetish or something like that with thousand suns in that model dude it's the sunk cost fallacy from a business perspective it's the we spent so much money modeling this thing and they none of them sold we just wasted a hundred thousand dollar project yeah I it's so stupid like maybe there is some people that enjoy it but no and CSM is like the it's miserable csm's combat Patrol is not good okay so the last honorable mention here is Knights oh that's an honorable mention oh [ __ ] Knights is the one that everybody who piped up with like a suggestion of what army would be cheap went Knights right right I know nights is cheap my head tells me nights is cheap well I mean it's just one of those like how many models do you need to buy yes and that's why people do it it's like dollar per model instead of dollar per Point yeah and they're like you only need four big nights to do it or you only need like a combination of two big nights seven small nights something like that is a usual Army yeah so people are like it's such a small army it must be cheap at nights I had trouble getting over like 1600 1700 points really The War Dog slash halverne kits are like 85 now oh okay for for two models for like 300 points and that's two models I thought it was three no you would because they're Max Squad size is three yeah it's two models for 85 that's so dumb oh God that's awful that's honestly awful the big nights you know like you're uh Knight abominant your uh night Paladin Aaron to those and the the Imperium loving gross people all of those are the same price 170 MSRP okay that's a bit more than I thought I mean I knew that they were all the same because like it's the same [ __ ] model like let's be real it's now the same price as a night Tyrant that's wild and then the war dogs are 85 for two if it was three you should be able to do it but yeah so Knights also fails oh that sucks there's a bunch of other armies that weren't even worth mentioning like guard you know how I said for guard we have to get to the point where we reach four points per dollar Right Guard has trouble with a point a dollar I mean there's there's uh some new stuff coming out so maybe no it's worse the new kids is horrendously priced uh so we only technically have the box set but if you look at like if you just divide the box set the the value is horrendous Okay and like you might be like well mechanize must be cheaper right you're right it's cheaper but we're talking about now it's just an expensive Army instead of the most expensive Army we're talking about like a hundred Point tank is like 65 oh God like it's just an expensive Army at that point the Lehman rust is sixty dollars for I think 120 points and that's like one of the best ways to waste points right to waste points yeah I see what you're saying yes yes I mean honestly I didn't have expectation of guard making it to 500 but like I didn't think it would be that far off I was like uh maybe like six seven hundred you know I'll give it a couple extra hundred and like you can finagle things or put okay then there's admac which famously has like the worst combat Patrol math-wise right like if you're trying to get you you can't make 500 points out of the [ __ ] like it's it's not a terrible combat Patrol for like it's a terrible combat Patrol in every way the models are bad the points are bad it's just bad the old start collecting again we'll get into this when we get to the end but the old start collecting was just better and cheaper fair enough but yeah ad Mack is like don't even try why are we doing this and it's like that for a couple other armies so let's get into the final four who actually made it so here's our winners these are the armies we can afford and again like there's a lot of rules that you've restricted yourself on like there's definitely ways to get a 2K Point Army for under 500 absolutely you can go on Mini swap you can go on eBay you can find ways to do it but like if you're not doing that and you want to just generalize these four follow MSRP rules yes I would never tell someone to buy MSRP no just go literally on Amazon 15 off on eBay cheaper still mini swap could be even cheaper still so number one we're getting it out of the way it's the one everyone knows is going to be the answer it's custodies yep okay please clap make sense so for custodies here's how we did it 150 combat Patrol we're buying two of them 300 gone makes sense though it's a solid combat Patrol it's nutty it's one of the best it is yeah so cool addition to that fact what makes it less points per dollar than like a bunch of golden boys would be is it adds in 10 sisters okay so you've got 20 of the only expensive model in the custodies line in the discount box so you're basically done having to buy that model and it's the only one that feels bad to buy as a custodies player yeah because I mean like the rest of them are are hilarious well yeah I mean it's just the the elite Army so you only need like three yeah so so here's what we do uh with the first two combat patrols we're going to build uh one Shield Captain one Shield captain on Don eagle jet bike uh you turn one of the 20 sisters into a night Centura which is just the named sister there's no official model for it you just doll one up put her on a rock okay in any other faction I'd say paint something gold in custodies I guess the answer is paint something not gold paint something Golder then we do five prosecutors five vigilators just so that we've got a couple options for our sisters and then I'm putting nine witch Seekers which is the flamer ones okay uh I'm specifically doing nine because then they'll fit in a rhino with the Knight Centura who I also give a flamer officially for this because I like making the flamer bomb squad I really like that Rhino it's a cool trick yeah I mean it does make rhinos interesting it's a fun trick for custody players highly recommend yeah could do an episode about it anyway so that's what we do with them then we've got all the rest of the Guard Squad uh we turned one into a captain we're gonna turn four out of ten into Shield four of them into Spear and then the last guy we're gonna give the flag and have him be a flag bearer guy which is a vexilious preator so that burns the guards there and then we have our Shield captain on Don eagle jet bike and we're just going to make the other five all be vertis preyators so we've got a nice five-man squad on bikes which yeah I mean that's pretty solid it's crazy value so at 300 we're at most of an army that's probably what like 1300 points 1400 points it's a lot so we still have money to blow uh first of all TJ trajan veloris uh kitten as he is known kitten [ __ ] off is 42 dollars for 200 points score all right then we've got 55 dollars for a Terminator Squad we'll buy two boxes for six of them and you may say what a rip-off I get five in a box yeah but there's cost way more yeah I'm gonna turn one of them into a shield captain and give them the ax so that he can be beat stick captain that we talked about in the custody sub faction episode yeah I think that makes sense and then the other five you can either do four of them as a squad and then do a fifth one who has the flag for being a Terminator with the flag or you can just do all five in the squad it really is up to you because we don't care about points by the way uh fair enough and then as a flex I've got more than fifty dollars left over I'm going to pay MSRP for a rhino yeah I was gonna say like you still you were talking about doing the rhino thing we need the Rhino because that doesn't come in the combat Patrol for anyone interested in starting in 40K watching this app episode never in your life MSRP for a rhino if you walk into a local game store and there are people hanging out you can say hey Boomers can I borrow a rhino you will have them thrown at you and they will say please never bring it back I don't think it's quite that but yes rhinos are free yeah they don't want you to know this hahaha hidden trick from GW renaults are free the kid the kit is older than the majority of our audience based off of what YouTube tells me yeah and it's been in a lot of boxes so that's two combat patrols the valoris two termies and a rhino yes and we are at 492 dollars spent and I I didn't put tax we're buying all of these in New Hampshire wherever it doesn't have sales tax sure so you you've got some money left over and here's the kicker this is not a 2000 Point Army this is a 2196 point army with how I have everything kitted out so there's enough room to like make some changes here and there you could just not run TJ oh Jesus and I spent MSRP for a rhino yeah I mean I custodius was like the obvious like this is definitely doable I didn't realize how doable it was if you don't have much money play custodies there's a reason a poor soul like Henry cavall can afford them yeah that's it they also do have the added bonus of like if you're gonna be like traveling with them there's not that many models true there's lots of upsides it works out pretty well and awesome to see that like there is you know one of these like cool Elite armies that you can get for cheap all right let's go to the second easiest faction all right what do we got it is not Space Marines well some people will argue it is it's you it's gray nights yeah it's Gotta Be not terrible gray Knights is held up by how absolutely batshit crazy that combat Patrol is yeah it is the Army where I bought three combat patrols and was grinning I was gonna say like the combat Patrol gives you the Nemesis dread and a squad of five termies and five strikes and a librarian oh it also gives you a librarian I forgot about that I was like it was already Great Value without that so before before we get into the combat Patrol I have to shout out Stefan over at One Last Blade hell yeah dude he is the reason that I made this episode I thought it was going to be a different episode than me ranting as much as I have but he was pointing out that the gray Knight combat Patrol is so good it's hard to build a 500 Point Army out of it yes I do remember that being one of those like how do you actually put it to 500 points just because like Terminators are so many points God forbid if your friend is playing admek and you'll both buy a combat Patrol get erect idiot man this game is wildly unbalanced I mean it kind of is but like that's that's like 600 points versus like 200 points oh 600 Eric you think it's 600 points well I mean it all depends on what you equip it with my my default build for your first combat Patrol is 835 points damn that is the like quote unquote correct way to build the combat Patrol in my opinion like how I would build it if I was trying to maximize the box for yeah for gameplay not even for like trying to maximize the amount of points I get no I'm just like I mean they kind of do go hand in hand because like you're gonna Grand Master a nem dread you're gonna you're gonna kid out the Terminators because like you have Terminators right Terminators no no no I'm kidding out paladins Eric oh you're going to paladins I have strike squads so I don't need troops right so anyway to get into the rest of this my final list is I literally just bought three combat patrols yeah we use the librarian as a librarian give them Gemma to a game the pretty normal Loadout yeah Grand Master Nemesis dread Knight gave him the teleporter because why not pretty standard yeah gave him silencer Psy Cannon sword servant of the throne the classic man like sometimes you give a hammer instead of a sword but like you know the first box I use the strike Squad as a strike Squad I gave one acai Cannon because why not it could be a silencer I don't care yeah the others all just have swords and then for the five paladins I did three paladins uh I just gave them all swords because I was lazy yeah I don't know what other options it comes with I remember it comes with awkwardly few of a couple options so I played it safe because I didn't want to be wrong yeah because like I think there's only like one or two Falcon sets I actually think there's only like one hammer per five man yeah there's ways to convert Hammers and stuff when you get in don't worry you'll have more than you think you do anyway uh and then I did an apothecary and a palette in ancient so there's my five paladins is the two characters and three paladins don't really like Paladin ancients but fine I don't like the Paladin ancient but it's awkward to have four paladins instead of Min Squad it is and I'd rather just have it done because at some point you're going to want an ancient in your collection so why not just be done with it yeah and having the Apothecary is nice as well and yeah yeah I see what you're doing and then that's the first star collecting and then we go through again I don't even use the librarian on the next two sets we're pocketing the Librarians okay I did the next five as just five terminators I gave them halberds because why not sure and I gave them a cycanon on one of them I gave one awarding staff you know pretty standard Loadout I I actually do like boarding staff in a five man like a three like whatever but like in a five man you're like yeah I can use that stratagem now exactly and then I just did Nemesis dread loaded out the same way as the Grand Master and you could do the same on the third one no the third one I actually did slightly different I I didn't try them in Max this I was like if you were building this is like your first Army you'll probably want to use some of the options even if they're currently not correct right fair enough yeah yeah and like the options are good enough but like it's not stupid yeah you know you're not purposefully hamstringing yourself yeah so the second set of strike Marines I turned into interceptors and I gave them weeb swords because Falcons are cool looking and they're actually pretty good on they're good on interceptors oh yeah it was a problem early in the Codex it was a problem it was a big problem not so much anymore but it's still solid yeah so then the third kit again pocket the librarian uh this nemdred I turned into hammer and I gave it the incinerator instead of the scican and just because I figured it looked cool whatever it's not a perfect Loadout but who cares it'll it'll do just fine I gave this set of strikes a purgation squad because we definitely have enough side cannons at this point because there's two side cannons per five I remember this when we built your army I do like purgation squads as and like having an option of it yeah purgation squads are just really cool yeah they're not particularly great at the moment but they're not terrible either so so that way you spread out what you've got your strikes doing yeah I like it and then the rest of the Terminators I made paladins however uh one of them I turned into a Brotherhood ancient so that you can say you've got a paladin ancient and a Brotherhood ancient it's probably a ways to do this it really doesn't matter it could just be a paladin I don't care that I don't agree with but it doesn't matter so then we've got the Paladin Squad I upgraded it at this point now it's got one Paladin's got a silencer one's got a sigh Cannon you could make them both the same I don't care spend your points how you like yeah just have fun with it both the guys with heavy weapons also have hammers the Paragon has a hammer the three guys with swords are still there and now we added awarding staff into the squad too and this is a big Paladin bomb 360 points yeah it's a paladin bomb I like it so you still got a couple dollars left over we have 50 bucks left and we're at 1995 points nice and this is a very normal list if you brought this to the table I would say cool we're gonna have a fair normal game yeah it's pretty standard which is one of the nice things about gray nights is honestly like you have to try to make a weird imbalanced list yeah because it's a smaller Army the floor and the ceiling are closer so what what did you get for the West last little bit in our pocket we've got fifty dollars and two Librarians not bad one of those Librarians I highly recommend go check out One Last Blade if you're into the idea of starting with gray Knights Stefan has his chaplain and Terminator armor which doesn't have an eternal model like it's one of those kits that they just make like a anniversary edition here's a chaplain and Terminator armor for the next you know month you can order it for like 40 US dollars but he turned a librarian into one and it's very easy to kid bash like super easy you just need like a reavers head which is like the worst Space Marine kit imaginable so they're free find one of those online find a friend who's got a spare Reaver head have him Chuck it at you the important thing is it's got the skull face which is what chaplains have is a skull face you jam that in instead of the librarian's head you toss them like candles from any Imperium or chaos kit on its back instead of the book and now it looks like a chaplain uh you can mutilate the staff to look like acrosius or you can just slap a hammer head instead of you know a craziest head which will look more gray 90 even if rules wise is still look rosiest at least look like hey this is a gray Knights chaplain not a Space Marine chaplain we've pretend it is a gray night yeah I actually like that idea so that's one of the Librarians I highly recommend doing that the second one traded off sell it off whatever don't care so we've got 50 bucks left which means we can pick up some servators yeah kind of sort of so you've got spare fifty dollars you can pick up literally any named character that you like don't waste money at Drago Drago's kid is horrendous he's a really really cool unit to play his kit is [ __ ] awful you can get bash your own Drago I promise you I hate the actual kit legitimately it's not worth any money but the unit's really cool so Eric how do you like Drago's sword I [ __ ] hate it it honestly it makes me not want to play Drago and I like I love playing Drago but like that model is so bad but you could pick any named character with that warning aside you could also if you end up with like 15 bucks from that library and you've sold off you could go up to 10 strike Marines of 65 which means you can do whatever you want with those you can make more interceptors if you'll end up liking those you could do a purgation squad you could try out purifiers you could do more strike Marines if you need more troops you can mix and match because it's 10 per box how much are the Termini paladins that box is 55 so if you get five bucks you could just add five more Terminators of your choice that's actually a really good price for those yeah the strikes for 65 for 10 of them is insane value that is insane value so in either case you can do that or you could just flat out buy a Razorback Rhino kit if you want to waste fifty dollars do not buy rhinos at MSRP people uh yeah I mean there are some insane greenite players that enjoy rhinos you could also argue buying the Tech Marine with servators kit because servers have Fringe use even though their ugliest sin and fine cast and a Tech Marine honestly gets a lot of use in granites though I recommend finding a printed one don't buy the actual Tech Marine the original Tech Marine is horrendous looking yeah it's not great uh maybe just buy a primaris Tech Marine because it looks a lot better I do think with some changes going on soon servers are going to see some more news yeah they're they're weird backline useful units they're just ugly a sin and aren't fun to play honestly there's some really cool kit bashes and stuff like that again that's that's once you get into your collecting yeah there's there's some interesting stuff that you can do with servators but it's actually pretty wild how far the combat Patrol makes it so like gray Knights can do whatever they want yeah gray Knights and custodies unfortunately we're at two power armored factions that are Hyper Elite are both very good it makes sense I mean you know if only like thousand Sons also follow that so are you ready for the weird one yeah so we've got two more right yeah there's two more out of the four all right what do you got for a weird one do you know what was weirdly difficult Space Marines I wasn't sure I got it there it was harder than I thought it would be so here's the deal for people at home wondering how I could have had a problem with this you're thinking to yourself Space Marines they have like five combat patrols that are all different they're in a start collecting literally first War Hammer 40k box with necrons that's a pretty good deal right the problem is outside of combat Patrol Space Marines which is that one famous Phobos kit that stuck together forever because they can't pull it apart because of how the sprues were made outside of that box all of these other boxes are horrendous value they're like General boxes are not great either like well they did two tricks that pissed me off one of them is a bunch of these combat patrols come with an impulsor as I stated previously one impulsor is mediocre one impulser is one too many no it's it's fine everyone has a use for unemploy impulsially you're fine to have one in your collection but the second impulsor is awful the third one is you almost all of these they jammed a pretty useless unit into it to jack up the price the impulsor being the worst example it's in multiple of these kits and it makes duplicates really bad the other problem is all of them come with an upgrade sprue that just changes out the shoulder pauldron with a specific chapter shoulder pauldron and has some like generic tchotchke stuff to put on your character so like it comes with two blood angels primaris upgrade frames they priced that into the discount if you ignore that these are barely discounts okay they're a little better than that depending on which one but it's painful how bad some of the value on these are uh so that's our problem with why space brains was way harder than you would have thought it was so I did end up finding a way to get to 2000 points it's not my favorite all right what'd you do here's here's the gist of it right now this has to be ultramarines okay it should be able to be any Marine because right now Gilman is tied to ultramarines but I assume he's getting the Abaddon treatment where he's just going to end up as Imperium buffing man for 300 points yeah I think that's a fair assumption but right now you have to play this as all to Marines because I had to use Gilman to get here okay so we did two combat patrols we did Space Marines combat Patrol and Dark Angels combat Patrol and we threw out the upgrade Spruce all right I don't know what the Dark Angels the Space Marine combat Patrol comes with a lieutenant Phobos armor who's not fantastic but whatever Everyone likes having a lieutenant because like you want your captain your Lieutenant your Classics yeah yeah it comes with 10 infiltrators but they're the easy to build kit so there's no options you can't do five ink cursors five infiltrators you have to do the 10 infiltrators as they look right so they've got their options it comes with the impulsor which I just did a pretty basic Loadout for an impulsor okay it comes with three eliminators who are easy to build so you can't do anything fancy is just three eliminators vanilla build fun it's got three suppressors which is the whole problem with this of it has to be tied because of how it's on the sprue so this suppressors are here too cool unit I really like it but whatever that's the first combat Patrol second combat Patrol is Dark Angels which gives you a primaris chaplain on foot unfortunately I know it's not on bike five generic intercessors which is one of the most maligned garbage units in Space Marines I'm aware you all hate intercessors and prefer assault intercessors but whatever it has a redemptor Dreadnought which is the real redeeming quality here instead of a useless second impulser that is nice yeah and it has three inceptors which from looking at the screws on the website are the full kit meaning you can build them as plasma okay so I did plasma even though I know right now technically it's probably better to do audible gun but whatever doesn't matter I did plasma that burned 300 we've got 200 left and we have a lot of points to make up still yeah it sounds like it unfortunately we had to buy Gilman immediately which I believe is 65 but I mean he's a lot of points and he's kind of cool 300 points great model uh it's just unfortunate that right now how rules wise that means this is an ultramarines list and then we're going to do something that will make certain Space Marine players cringe we're going to buy a box of Hell blasters here's the fun trick hellblasters is a 60 kit hellblasters are wildly overpriced right now oh my God a 10-man hellblaster squad who killed themselves when they roll once is 330 points wow don't roll ones easy that's about right so we're going to actually make decent use in this list of Hell blasters because we're going to keep them with Gilman give the reroll ones all that jazz at which point it's like yeah don't roll once okay yeah so they're you're still gonna have a couple diary game and wonder why these things cost so much but that's what they cost I am not doing a second set of Hell blasters to really fudge the stuff in my favor like you could technically remove Gilman put in 20 hell blasters instead of 10. that's a bit and end up with more money and more points so like you end up having more room to play with what you want in your list but you have 20 hell blasters and like you wouldn't have Gilman to like stop him from blowing themselves up okay I 10 I can accept with Gilman like we've got like some synergies going on as we're kind of doing it it's kind of cool sure so we are now sitting at 1800 and like 40ish points with 75 left so you can basically choose anything you want at this point as long as it's under 75 and is at least like 150 points or 140 points so like you could just get intercessors assault intercessors right you could because this is a pretty backline heavy ultramarine shooting Army right now I just threw eradicators in there you could throw in whatever you like we're at 480 right now done you you can replace them with a couple different options if you go this route it sucks that you're tied into ultramarines right now you can still make this an honorable mention close if you remove Gilman put a captain in his place you've got like minus 170 points to make up and you've got an extra 20 in your pocket yeah this is probably a better way to build this Army by doing that so that you can be whatever you want but you're gonna be over my Line This is How we got to my line and I I think that's not the worst starting point no it's it's a fine ultramarine Army and obviously there are starting points below 2 000 points you could start with just a combat Patrol and be quite happy for a while right right okay that's not too bad it's not too bad but uh you've got one more yeah do you care to guess I I don't know okay it's necrons is it how much does silent game cost I couldn't fit silent King in this list Eric what I want you to do some math with me here silent King is 400 points yeah silent King is 160 oh silent King only has a ratio of 2.5 points per dollar meaning if you add them to a list you need to add something that is better points per dollar than four to make up for the fact that he costs so much all of the big chungus units Magnus mortarion silent King Etc are all up at that cap of like 160 to 170 ouch So Silent King didn't make the list I committed a crime okay so I got necrons to 2 000 points for five hundred dollars but at what cost so the the combat patrols got the combat Patrol is bad but I did end up needing to use it just for money reasons because it's it's got the site doomsyth or you can do Nightside light of doomsight but it doesn't matter they're both pretty bad then it's got three of the stupid fly things three three three tomb blades which are also bad yeah is it Immortals it is two five-man squads of Immortals that can also be death marks it's however you choose to build it I did all immortals because death marks are horrendously awful what does it have for its like character thing the character is just an Overlord on foot specifically technically wysiwyg it would be with the scythe and the resorb so that's what I did for that that's not great no okay I believe it was purposely made that way to Accent indominus which again was a timed box that is no longer available but the bits of it are all over the Internet for cheap do not buy MSRP right okay so trying to think what else how much do arcs cost nope nope nope we don't have money for that so here's how I did it there is an intro box to 40K oh that has necrons vs Space Marines the Space Marine half of it is someone not arguable or buying the hundred dollar box we end up with these space brains left over to go trade to that space room player so that they don't have to buy Gilman this is why no one buys everything in MSRP guys uh we're going to be buying the the necron half and unfortunately it comes with a second Overlord it's not great this one is the tachyon arrow and glaive version this box also comes with 10 Warriors Three scarabs because they're part of the warrior sprue and three score pack destroyers and a plasma Scythe which is always with them it's not bad so we're at 250 burn 10 249 dollars burn we have a lot of ground to make up still yeah I was like we don't really have an army we've got stuff so so let's do the non-embarrassing thing first there is the canoptic Doom stalker is 130 points it's not as good as a doomsday Arc but it's cheap I think it's a 42 kit or something it's an interesting model I guess I like it I really do like them I like them better than the [ __ ] rib cage I do not like arcs I like arcs I think they're cool I generally don't like the Infantry portion of necrons as a necron player but anyway so the canoptic Doom stalker that's the like tall four-legged Walker with the big gun on his head yeah I do like it and it does give me some Nostalgia to the Starcraft 2 unit that's basically the same the Colossus so I then am going to waste 115 oh uh because it works out pretty well for actually feeding our points it's not my favorite thing to spend this on you get it's the necron Royal Court no idea what that is I know it's it's the part of indominus that was only an indominus all right it's the score pack Lord the plasma answer two crypto thralls and the canoptic reanimator and they like they still sell that it's sold together as like uh that's how they tend to do those like timed boxes after release is over price the parts that were exclusive to that box yeah there's a Space Marine equivalent but it's horrible so we did not buy that all right all right that burned up most of our money so I have very little money left to play with yeah it doesn't sound particularly great Eric I need about 620 points all right I'm gonna buy fine cast oh [ __ ] off that doesn't count we have Katan Shard of the night bringer and Katan Shard of the deceiver here in the store for ninety dollars which is under our budget [ __ ] hell I didn't even think of the guitar I mean I know you didn't that makes sense are you ready for what's going to happen though so they have pretty dated models they're both 300 or more points they're both 45 their models are fine cast so they are a crime do not purchase them however we have a rumor engine that looks a hell of a lot like nightbringer Scythe but in like modern beautiful looks so it's very likely the next year we're going to get a Catan chart of the nightbringer yeah but it's gonna be expensive like the void Dragon void dragon's 115 for the exact same he's cheaper Point wise than the 45 nightbringer yeah and and looks way way way way cooler sure he does but he's a hundred and fifteen dollars yeah there's a reason I didn't pick him and I picked the two that are ugliest sin okay so we bought the banana man and the man with the banana site I don't approve of this Shenanigans I don't either but they're actually like okay there's no reason other than their models are ugly to ban them like it's not like buying a Stompa there like nightbringer has argument for why you would play him yes deceiver is the worst of the Catans but he's casually fine deceiver's a bit of a stretch but I can accept it I can accept it as like uh I think catons are cool I want to play the Catans but I have a budget and I'm not gonna spend 150 in boy dragon so I'll buy deceiver and nightbringer fair okay so that that got us 499 dollars because it turns out the Doom stalker was 45 I just double checked 499 dollars for what is essentially just shy of 2 000 points oh it's not even 2K it's it's like 1990 something oh okay so it's it's a 2K list it's just you're missing some upgrade just because like point-wise that happens yeah and this is assuming you take some options on the tomb blades you could juggle them around whatever yeah I'm not sure I particularly like that list but it's not awful it's rough but that's where we're at with the price of 40K models yeah so so let's take a moment to wrap up here and talk about why this is so rough like what led us to the fact that for some reason models are now way more expensive than when we started essentially three years ago now yeah so combat patrols combat patrols is the big problem yeah so combat patrols was a great idea because Star collecting's had an issue you had good start collectings like chaos Space Marines it was like 700 points for 90 US Dollars MSRP and you could get a cheaper online and like it wasn't just like wasted points there was some solid it was good I would buy two of them if I was starting CSM yeah then you had the problem of slanesh or Astra militarum where you had trouble scraping 300 points for that same ninety dollars right so the idea was combat patrols Target 500 points and make it so that they're all balanced so when two new people buy a combat Patrol to start playing they're on equal footing it's a greater it honestly is a great idea because you know two people are like hey we want to start playing Warhammer here's two boxes you each build one and play against it and it's not a stop cool here's the problem though what ended up happening is for most armies that were Elite and often ended up with too many points per dollar in a start collecting box all they did was up charge it from 90 US dollars to a hundred and fifty dollars yeah it's like almost double the chaos base Marines start collecting was a better value better units more points than the 150 dollar combat Patrol box yeah that's it sucks because like like we said you know it's it's a good idea to do that kind of thing and you can't use the argument of oh well at least it solved the problem with like admek because obviously now you finally get 500 points of admac in a oh it still barely scrapes 300 points if you buy every option that is honestly the big miss any of the combat patrols that don't get to 500 or you know 480 490 like what you know death guard not being legal is a patrol in the first place and having a name character and all the other issues with that piece of trash oof so like if the idea is supposed to be two people can buy these boxes build them and play against each other and have a good reasonable really fair time they've failed that Mark yes pretty miserably and like it is one thing to have like some armies that are illids are gonna have oh if you take these options it's gonna be more points to be honest that's a very rare now it's basically gray nights because you're old Marines it still has that when you get Primera sized and all of your kits no longer have options you use the entire sprue making your kit it's going to be less or you're not going to be 800 points you're going to be 430 points oof yeah like it's fine to have some that go a bit over but like under by like a noticeable amount it's not great or they're just trash like obviously the idea is two people should be able to grab one off the shelf and play a good fair game right yeah points aside there's no [ __ ] way in a million years you take combat Patrol necrons or combat Patrol admac and you play it against a generic decent combat Patrol just play it against the chaos demons one the space ring one the drakari one the orc one no normal ones right you play them against those these would get shredded especially if you start picking it random and not like building the best unit in the box like if you accidentally made death marks good [ __ ] God yeah there's some problems and like it's tough because just generally models have gotten more expensive which does suck so there's been three price hikes since 2020. it's been a bit much and there's a a secret sauce that we can get to on these price hikes this is very purposeful they're they're not just oh woe is us or sorry guys we didn't want a price hike but inflation happened right because very suspiciously they have found the cap is a hundred and seventy dollars they have not moved the night Tyrant from that all the knights are now 170 dollars all of the other giant named characters are just trying to push up to that 170 mark because they realize through some market research stuff that the second hit 175 that rounds up to 200 in people's heads and they go 200 for a plastic children's toy are you [ __ ] insane yeah there absolutely is that type of psychological thing going on there it's the same reason of why like gas prices are 0.99 they're always yeah they they're super scummy it's always a cent higher than it says it is that whole thing it works like it psychologically does work and back to your last point this was early in the episode you asked me are we doing this in pounds or dollars yeah because you and I both know this fact currently Great Britain wonderful awesome Britain is uh having rolling blackouts and is barely a country something about brexit yeah something about terrible choices and reaping what you sow londonbinife.png so uh wonderful Britain is in such good shape that the pound is down to only a buck 20 us something like that yeah conveniently the prices of U.S Warhammer models was decided compared to the pound in the mid 90s when the pound was a lot more so they upped the U.S prices twice while the pound decreased in value compared to it by large numbers currently the same kit if a UK person buys it in pounds and a US person buys it in dollars and we convert so that we're both buying in the same currency yeah there is a 38 Burger tax I understand if there was like a 15 percent I get it International you got to deal with tariff and all that yeah but there is not a 40 tariff between countries I can tell you this is someone who works for an international company definitely not between Britain and the U.S yeah especially not those countries so yeah it sucks it really does yeah even with all the price increases just for those wondering at home I did some quick math the majority of factions if we did this at 414 pounds which is currently 500 US Dollars the vast majority of armies are purchasable at MSRP still for 500 for 2 000 points okay so it's only like really the ones that like fail miserably at combat Patrol and the ad Mac the IG the yeah things that just are awful okay Gene Steeler who I forgot to even mention but they're way out there you ain't doing Gene sealer calls for 500. um completely forgot about those yet again so I mean it is nice to know that if you're in Britain you can get most armies for about five hundred dollars you just can't get electricity [Laughter] oh you're not wrong it's a good thing this is an analog game exactly you can handles to paint so on on that wonderful note these episodes are very fun to make but this takes a very long time to create there's a lot of work that went into this there's a lot more work after I say these words that has to be done by an editor and then again to videoify it so that you can all watch it on the YouTubes if you prefer please do us a favor if you stuck through this and were entertained and occasionally offended by us making fun of you personally good take a moment give us the YouTube pleasantries and all that share us with friends try our other content there's a bunch of fun stuff I'm not always so negative though I often am uh we try to do more upbeat fun subjects for the most part this one just kind of failed which led to this and it's kind of an interesting look in that way yeah it is kind of interesting of like the expectation being oh yeah even the ones that like probably aren't that close there's more like honorable mentions than there would have been yeah uh so a bit of a downer but so do all that for us help us out thank you so much and thank you to all the patrons I know you guys help us constantly keep that up but that is enough of us let's get out of here for the week sounds good

Channel: Poorhammer

Views: 600,528

Keywords: 40k, Warhammer 40k, Warhammer, Factions, Codex, Necrons, Space Marines, Tyranids, Daemons, Votann, Models, Challenge, $500, Budget, Combat Patrol

Id: BbRaC7pjoiU

Length: 59min 42sec (3582 seconds)

Published: Fri Jan 06 2023