Improving 40K... with CRIME!

hello and welcome to episode 105 of the poorhammer podcast I'm your host Brad this is my co-host Eric how's it going and with us on this glorious episode let out of the dungeon at last is bilio send help no today is a fantastic episode because it's essentially practicing a British Pastime we're going to normalize theft uh you're not wrong but uh yeah we're going to bring mechanics from other games and ideas and put them in the British museum all right so let's look through a bunch of games that have interesting mechanics and steal them all and try to shove them in 40K sounds good all right before we start off quick note we're very aware going into this that some of these mechanics existed at some point in the distant past some of these mechanics would slow the game down terribly just like you know blast templates and Scatter Dice and everything else that we've tried to get rid of to make the game not take 45 hours to play a single game and lead to horrible arguments but we want to bring them back not really it's fun to brainstorm ideas even if we know some of these would be flawed to implement and probably aren't great ideas long term right and some of them were aware did exist at one point and we'll bring up ones that we know of if we miss some that did exist feel free to point them out in the comments or whatever I didn't play in second I don't even know if I was alive at that point because it's so long ago so like probably don't know if it already existed back in second edition but with all of those out of the way let's get into some actual ideas here so burelo we brought you on because you play Dota 2 because you are just the worst stereotype it's not my fault it's my friend's fault I just started playing by per pressure I mean that's uh how things generally happen that's how most people get into Warhammer as well so we have a lot of games on this list but several of them are going to be top down just because you know 40K is played on a 2d plane with a bunch of units so so top down games tend to be pretty good for things actually porting over easily but let's start with a couple of your DOTA ideas okay so let's start with rubric he's a cube and also a hero that steals people [ __ ] so you're talking about normalizing death Rubik's ultimate ability is called spell steel he studies the magical tra of the enemy hero and learns the last ability that he casted so he basically repeats one of the abilities of the enemy team okay that's an interesting one because I know at a certain point blue scribes did something similar in 40K they're a zch unit and they could basically steal the spell from an opponent when they cast it that one's an interesting one to talk about of like I know this was in some way implemented in 40K before I believe the eighth edition version of the rules before the nth Edition codex it was wonky you had to like roll doubles or something and then when you bore the witch you could deny it and cast it I think if you had a valid Target I might be getting it wrong but there was something similar yeah and I mean that's definitely something that specifically with psychic could be doable a little bit more difficult of like copying an ability I think Universal strategems lend well to it if we wanted to go that angle of like do like a vect style counter the Strat thing but take the CP out of it like a Mana drain ability from Magic mhm but how would you do it cuz you kind of have to be in line of side of the enemy to copy the ability right yeah you would follow like the deny rule in 40K and all that which again not int right now but but it's kind of of a bad ability on a squishy unit right if you put your guy in front of a bunch of other units that's going to use abilities they are probably going to kill the guy that copies the ability so you kind of have to build in some protection for the character that going to use this kind of I mean that's why you have bodyguard units and make it difficult because that's part of the challenge yeah I was like that's how you balance a lot of those types of spellcaster type things of like yeah it's squishy so that means that you have to have you can make the ability powerful yeah it lets you make something flashy knowing that it's going to be rare but it's going to be awesome when it happens in a big talking moment and if you screw up you're going to get punished easily I think it absolutely is doable and it would be fun all right let's segue into something that's perhaps very similar League of Legends Starcraft has dark archon and uh literally just steals a unit mind control and you can steal their Builders and then you can play all three games at once you can do that yeah you know the the thing about the dark Aron is like it doesn't have an attack it just it has the ability to Lo other units down and like there's a few things to it it's super frail it's very late game it has a huge cost attached yeah the Splashy thing for it is it mind controls a unit yes I specifically remember I would play protos build a dark archon steal a drone and steal an SCV and yet to play all three factions in a game and it felt amazingly cool yes very much though I mean you could also just steal some of their High tier air units or something like that but I mean sure but we were 12 yeah we were 12 and so it still was fun to mind control B ble Cruiser that felt good still so for this one I do know that there is a light version of this that previously existed one of the Negron name characters I don't remember which one used to be able to do mind control a vehicle and force it to fire for you okay there may still be a version of that on one of the nekron name characters I don't know I'd have to go check I'm pretty sure it existed in like a random Space Marine character too now that you mention control a vehicle we can kind of flavor dis ability in many any ways like possessing a unit hacking a vehicle so we can kind of also Nerf the ability by making it not being able to Target mechanical units or not being able to Target flashh units you know you wouldn't be able to take over a hero unit a character something like that or you make it where it has to be a single model unit and you could take that over but you couldn't take over you know five Space Marines because there's too many they could snap the guy out of it yeah actually there is quite a few knobs that can be tweaked on how it happens yeah probably have to do an upkeep control check to make sure you keep it and make sure your controlling character stays alive you could do a lot of things to Nerf it and make it very interesting as like a game of keep away you can also put a requirement like just control units with toughness less than x and then you combo it with other units that lowers the toughness of someone or something like that W you're getting into synergies in codex design that's too advanced yeah yeah right we got to start game's Workshop off small man you're talking layers into this battle shock and all that stuff okay with how poorly they implement the stacking of things to try to make battles shock matter when it never ends up mattering I take it back I don't want them to even try but yeah I mean I think that there are a lot of tweaks that can be done with it it's just when it comes to mind controlling or you know taking over an opponent piece is the fact that like you've spent all this time building and painting your models and now your opponent's moving them there are going to be people that just viscerally hate the idea of that don't touch me and my models ever again right exactly and that might get into one of the problems with like yeah they may actually avoid anything other than the old shooting one that I know existed so that you can't do the touching other people's model stuff yeah that may be a reason for it and that's a fair way of doing it where it's like you're just controlling the guns the player still has full control over the movement there are ways to do it but that is definitely a concern and other games don't have the moral issue that I see you bringing up of like magic lets you literally mindslaver someone and take their turn and touch all their stuff and magic cards are far far far more expensive than 40K models but we use condoms in our cards sometimes we triple layer the condom yeah and I mean there's still people that like viscerally hate the idea so but at the same time fun is a zero some game so ruining someone else's day is as good as making your own better sure all right where do you want to go from there okay so this is just too meme not to do let's do genin since so many people had comments last video because that got mentioned I can't believe you play genin I know how dare I do things that my wife suggests but this actually gets into an idea I had when I was brainstorming Mechanics for Emperor's Children so in GHIN one of the key things when you have combat like that is crowd control specifically manipulating where an enemy is to try to like group people together so kazuha as a character there he has an ability to like suck everyone towards him and then you can utilize that in addition to having someone who does area damage to get everything close together and then go boom right I do know that in Old 40K in the long long ago slesh had whips from what I'm remembering from like old people talking about this and if something failed morale you could whip them off the board and like move them until they left the board and then they would like die because like if something left the board off the side it would die and my thought was actually the opposite of while that's funny and haha whip sex stuff instead of doing that do the reverse with Emperor's Children you do a pseudo area damage theme with the music stuff the rock and roll and you do like a siren song mechanic to allow you to manipulate things forced to move 3 in towards you or whatever which could be a in interesting to move stuff off of points if you used it correctly like you know pay 2 CP to do it and then everything in 12 in or whatever has to probably pass a morale check or move like 3 six Ines towards you or something to do like a siren song that would be massive for setting out charges yes that's the other part of it is it allows you to charge easier it allows you to do area type stuff with the music stuff I believe drari could also use this ability like hooking people and hooking on the boats yes I know I'm kind of stealing your grappling hook one you wrote for Dota 2 you can put that up here too if it makes you feel better show your grappling hook no mini gamees us this kind of effect like basically every game has a version uh-huh but you still wrote Dota 2 you didn't you didn't write roadhog you wrote Pudge well I mean cuz Pudge is the better character out of all of them it's not blitzcrank why would we choose the the better more popular game League of Legends when we could go a DOTA fight me nerds on the internet yeah I'm just kidding League of Legends is also [ __ ] they're all garbage stop playing mobas wait hold on hold on how I'm going to legally insult my friends I do it all the time I'm doing it right now as I speak to you and Eric every week but you're on the land of the free but yeah I believe you can flavor disability in many ways we can basically put this in any faction right oh yeah you could force it all over the place uh just find a model with a chain on it and you have an excuse easy as that but I specifically when I was looking at it was thinking of like if I were to implement Emperor's Children and make them interesting and not just LOL 69 like how would I go about it and I was like okay music theme how do I get a bunch of interesting music themes I'm like siren song pulling stuff close and then punishing them for it side note GW if you're going to make a character with a hook please make it so it doesn't break on transport like the Space Marines grappling hook oh yeah the one that like goes out in like a straight line from the Reaver kit yeah the duari stuff has tons of chains hanging off of them and those are fine they have a better chance of drawing your blood than actually breaking well yeah I mean there's like any number of ways to do it like Starcraft has the Viper which is you know a flying Zerg unit that grabs things yeah there's so many games have the grab your opponent from far away and bring him close kind of idea yeah basically the only reason that Warhammer doesn't have this is because they avoid using abilities that reposition the units right now they do but they have historically done it it does cause issues especially if you're like oh but that's going to put it inside of a building or yeah there's a lot of that issue of like uh malicious compliance too of like 3 in away we all saw how that went in like eth and nth where you would do 2999 to the left and 0.1 back and that technically counts yeah and like I don't think that's a showstopper for this kind of thing if you're going to game system whatever [ __ ] you yeah but there are things that to be about in that aspect of like yeah it does add complexity and maybe they haven't figured out a good way of doing it yet but it would be cool all right let's go back to you bro uh do another DOTA one since there's like 35 on your list here okay so how about a unit that is multiple models and if you kill one of the models you kill all of the models oh hell yeah that's the one that you're playing uh basically an RTS in MOA exactly send one of each unit to each side of the map and control of them yeah I could see that working for a faction that has like Drew Cari has the um it's the ability on an archon it's the Hologram field I forget what it's called but anyway if you have something like that where you could have it where it's like you get more copies of the model but any one of them dies kills all of them that could be very cute to get a bunch of like cheap characters to go do actions in various places but they're all Ultra fragile because like one dying does all that's very very cool you can also flavor it like a towel vehicle that has a control core and has its arms and legs scatter a few inches from the center model or something like that or a controller for the Drone Squad where like you kill him and all the drones die but the drones could act far away from him right I mean it could be like necron Overlord kind of thing even of like yeah they've never implemented that well so I don't want to use that example for my own emotional impact but it would be like early 9th I'm sure but uh it is another possibility kind of thing and you can also use like on tyranids a hive mind yeah I mean there's definitely cool things about having like multiple models linked to a single weak point kind of thing all right let's move on to something that's like different I want to talk about gambling are we doing Corsair I love Orcs like I just want to roll dice and like yeah Final Fantasy Corsair has the coolest the absolute Peak Pinnacle coolest gambling mechanic in a a game ever it really does it's such a cool buffer it's from Final Fantasy 11 corsair's are a buffing unit like a Bard which is in most MMOs you know the guy who does a thing and you all get a buff right except he's a pirate yeah corsair's version of it is you are a pirate and you give everyone Buffs by gambling and you play Blackjack and everyone watches you play Blackjack but it's best of 11 not 21 the higher the number is the better the buff but if you go over 11 you bust that's really cool you get negatives but then you get a bunch of abilities that let you manipulate the numbers so you're playing loaded Blackjack cuz you're a pirate you can get it to be pretty reliable to basically always get close to your blackjacks well but there's also the fact that like in that one each ability you know if you're were trying to buff like the attack power or whatever one of the numbers that isn't the highest was like the Happy good number correct worked as a trump card so Eric are you telling me you you want a Arc model that you can start shooting and then you can go shooting more but you have a chance to explode your weapon or something like that that's not bad either that could work and then you gamble flipping cards on a table increasing your daaka but if you go too far you damage your own model I like it as an attachment idea for something like free Buddhas to get a really pirate theme yeah I was assuming it was probably going to be like a stratum or maybe detachment I'm very on board with this this is an incredible idea I also like this idea yeah I mean it's it's like I don't know exactly the problem is it's such a cool idea that like I want very much to like go all in on it like yeah let's let's make the free bootas you want it to be like a Faction ability where like you can have half a page rules on it and manipulate it and have the ability to spend a CP to do a reroll type thing for it and or a plus one to the roll or you want it to work B basically like how thousand Sons can manipulate psychic in ninth or cabal points in general is a good equivalent but like you want the equivalent of that for like gambling is this faction's mechanic instead of thousand suns manipulating psychic that would be cool it's a rad idea for like free buddas specifically the pirate theme really sells it for me but like I love the idea of Orcs gambling or uh bad moons could be another one where they're gambling because they're all rich and have a bunch of teeth and then it could be like you're gambling the teeth yeah I mean I think that there could be one of those like this you know a new character has like his ability is this type of like gambling thing but I would enjoy it more if it was a full subaction Focus it's just so cool man it's a rad idea and I mean the 2d6 system works very close to how it did in 11 what do you mean by 2d6 system because in Final Fantasy 11 you were trying to hit 11 and you drew cards that were 1 to six it worked like rolling a die it was gambling with ice we've got all the tools RS we can make it happen but all right what's next all right I'm going to to break your mind I'm choosing Starcraft oh [ __ ] this is not a cry for help I want everone to know that up front I'm picking Starcraft and not Eric and nothing is wrong I didn't actually force him to do this one so I was watching Dune a couple weeks ago and while I was watching the sandworm I was like man the nidus canal would be a sick thing to implement in 40 K as like a sort of like teleport point to point and scaven even has a similar mechanic or did at least in AOS with their um heidy holes whatever they were called the under Hills yeah whatever they were called but they had it in AOS at one point I'm like this would be an interesting mechanic for Jean stealer Cults or something that you know you could be a little sneaky for and then I was like Brad you're watching a movie would you pay attention and stop thinking about 40K I that's fair um I do think that would be really cool because nidus canals are just like some of the most interesting movement strategy component in any strategy game it feels right yeah the system for those who don't know is you have to make an entrance and exit point and then you can travel between them like there is no distance between them yeah it's just two buildings that are basically movement linked together Brad you're describing I know League of Legends and DOTA both had this mechanic I'm aware what's the DOTA character say it you'll feel better get it out of your system Underlord I can't get over the Goa non names it still bothers me to this day so like that one he just like makes a spot and can teleport back and forth or what yeah that's exactly it yeah it's going to be difficult to figure out like what the limitations would be for Warhammer one of the main limitations to me would be think of all the fortifications we currently have in 40K yeah yeah that are terrible and the rules around them that are terrible yep yep there's a lot of uphill battles you could basically make it work exact like Starcraft have just placed the entrance and the exit and you can now move between them with zero movement and it would still be difficult for it to be competitively viable ever I think the place the exit is the difficult part of like what are the limitations where can you put it you probably would piggy back on the resurrection coin thing that we've gotten Jean Steelers right now yeah that's fair I have lost all ability to name mechanics tonight guys you can also delay the exit that's what I mean gen Cults you put it down and they have a turn to interrupt you I see this way you can put on enemy territory and the enemy has a chance to react no that would be sweet but again at that point it's going to be really bad so it has to be really easy to do or you can like place it in a spot that like you kind of have control over and like it's just going to make it easier to hop to the other side of the battlefield and resupport yeah and you would just make it be epic hero rule where it's only one allowed yeah in fact fortifications might already have that I have no idea no one takes two of them anyway yeah I was like why would you ever take more than one why would you take one but like yeah one is hard enough to sell yeah all right back to you what's your next generic character name this time I'm not going to DOTA I'm going to Elden ring okay all right last week when the shield Captain for custodias was reviewed I thought he was pretty short but his shoot was cool and then I remembered a clip from Elder ring of the wall a guy using two Shields one in each hand and he only attacks were bashes okay I immediately think Orcs but I think that's too easy and we have to rethink yeah I was like that is orcy but I think you can do better of like a named buen instead of a named Ogen so you get double shieldy buen what is the chapters that is all about fortification uh Imperial fists also also Aces yes they would totally just have have two Shields that would be perfect and they could sell like a million of it that would be cool I'm one of the people that think that that's cool I fully support Imperial fist becoming a meme let's do this yeah and shield characters are pretty famous like in general in games like OverWatch again not to name a bad game twice but Reinhardt was very popular and he's just a dude with a shield and a hammer I mean it's one of those like any time you can customize characters in an RPG and you can put two shields on somebody's trying to do it several somebody's and then there will be YouTube videos about how you can do it for the memes it's perfect it's fun it's great I'm not going to downplay the fun of doing something stupid on purpose some would say the entire character build series we have is based on that fact yeah so I mean you could do like the bashing Elden ring or the Reinhardt barrier he puts up a wall that blocks every incoming damage for everyone behind that wall right like an energy Shield oh like Braum and leue Legends stand behind me stand behind bom one of the last characters in League of Legends to come out while we were still playing to date us so who could have this ability like a tow you could definitely do either grey Knights do a shieldy unit I just think that because of Reinhard because because he has the hammer and then you could do again Imperial fist is not a bad idea for this as much as it is a meme and it will get memed to death it could be a lucrative meme you just got to sell people on it you make it where it's just cool enough where you're like that's stupid as hell but I'll still buy one yeah like that's that's what you got to do I kind of love the idea of doing a named Bullen nor deog as the named Ogen you do a named buen who's all about defending people and he's literally just got Shields and it's like borderline useless but you don't want to tell the buen he's doing a bad job I mean yeah it would be cool to have character and then you know like do the heroic intervention and stuff like that I'm for it all right what do you got next Eric so talking about Shields and stuff like that like the Reinhardt Shield Starcraft 2 Sentry this is the one that started this episode by the way I loved Eric's idea even though it was him lenting that a Starcraft mechanic didn't exist in 40K so that's how this episode came to be so the Sentry actually has a couple abilities one of them is a guardian Shield that's just like an AOE around it that reduces range damage to friendlies very doable in 40K has definitely happened yeah we have the psychic ability and Ninth from Space Marines where you could just give everyone in a circle a five up invol very cool very balanced everyone loved it yes absolutely but the reason that the century was such an interesting one to me is because they have a force field a true force field puts a barrier a thing in the way so that like ground units cannot go through it the gungan force field from uh the first bad Star Wars or second depending how you feel about episode 6 wow it's not called Rogue one why am I thinking it's called Rogue one Clone Wars is the second one one or attack of the Clones rather phantom phantom menace keep all that in it's very funny us not knowing Star Wars so this one is something that I've always thought could be cool of like let's have abilities that change the layout change the terrain a little bit and the Sentry force field has shown it off to me just so perfectly of you can have a choke point and then you can be like well I'm going to defend this area oh they went around me well I'm going to put force fields over there haha so would you like GW to add permanent spell like AOS for this kind of ability yeah it could work I feel like it's too large of an effect to just get endless spell physical representation I think this one would be more of a one turn marker kind of thing yeah they just can't go through this area yeah that could easily solve the problem just cuz like terrain manipulation is extremely strong so having like permanent terrain manipulation could be problematic at the same time it's kind of ballsy to take three copies of this unit if they all just get a one turn ability and just stack it for three turns to block off like a main Lane I mean that's what it's useful for in like Starcraft the strategy is I'm going to funnel you into this location I'm going to block off this weak point and like there's other counterplay like certain things like massive units can just walk through it you know like there are downsides that could be done with it and like the Sentry itself is a [ __ ] garbage unit like the only it's useful is because of the force field and the guardian Shield's fine but like it's just it adds that extra bit of like strategy that I enjoy of manipulate the battlefield to your advantage and I'm constantly disappointed that that doesn't exist yet yeah that would be cool and also while we are at Starcraft I'll bring up the Mother Ship we're just skipping my turn are we okay sure no we're talking about Starcraft it's more important please tell us we all know that aircraft is a very important part of 4K 10th edition oh yeah those planes are great so why not bring another plane to the game that will certainly get played okay continue then we really do need to talk about this then so how does it work see you spend 300 minerals and 300 gas to do nothing it's just like 40K for real for real yeah so non- meing what does it actually do for those of us who aren't lonely I mean the mother ship's got a bunch of abilities so which one are you interested on I'm a big fan of the archon toilet what the archon toilet you don't know what the archon toilet is bro Starcraft 2 sucked the archon toilet is such a fantastic ability man you cast Vortex and it sucks all your units well it sucks all units in so like you know you cast it on your opponent's Army it doesn't damage him or anything and then you take all of your archons and you also put it in the vortex you know black hole them all together and then when it ends all of your archons Splash damage the opponents and uh they I'll die sakon toilet that literally just sounds like my kazua thing was the other Mothership ability there's also the time warp it slows stuff down yeah I was thinking on a ship that could teleport units back to it and bring it back to the base or to your side of the field that is actually something that would be cool for a aircraft unit to be able to like okay take these units and teleport them either to the aircraft unit or the original ability was like take the mother ship and everything around it to home sounds like a very chaos vehicle for me like CSM could have it yeah like messing around with the warp yeah exactly yeah it feels Thousand Sunny to me but I think that's just because teleportation I instantly link to warp stuff yeah I mean it is derivative of The Grey Knight current ability of the teleporting around but it's probably not one you give to Grey Knight if you're making it like a a specialty model for a faction you probably do it for a more frail faction as like a get out of jail free card type thing so like something I don't want to say guard yeah guard has shitty Weaponry yeah yeah it might be like skinnable for to as like Tech to get him out of close range like our position's getting overrun teleport us back to base Beam us up Scotty oh yeah that works out pretty well yeah tow protos they they're very similar in looks yeah and like you know it's one of those like oh I'm being attacked at my base how about I just grab all my units and bring them back yeah that would be neat all right can I find have a couple turns now since we're all skipping over Brad I mean unless you're going to talk about a DOTA character Brad then go ahead Brad are going to let Eric tell you what to do bring up DOTA bring up your favorite character my favorite DOTA character is queef wow grimstroke is a real name it is I figured that you were going to go with like one of the actual real names that were dumb but no queef is where you winded all right okay Templar Assassin legally distinct donut steel not a dark Templar she does damage that hits in a line cuz I'm reading the show notes so piercing shots from every RPG ever yeah yeah and we do have these in 40K already I don't know if any made it into the 10th indexes but they were in 9th Edition for a whole bunch of stuff uh mortarion's gun void dragon's ranged attack was the throwing the spear and it did damage in a line there were quite a few in ninth Edition they always suck mostly because they all got limited to like 12 in yeah but like it's such a neat thing that you can just tack on and give extra yeah it's a cool idea and I love the idea of actually doing it especially for something like a l Cannon or something or or a rail gun like piercing a line something big and flashy like a night weapon I like this kind of ability because it's cool to use and there's many ways to balance it like the range also the damage the more it goes through enemies the damage can decrease and also there's line of sight your opponent can play around it if he knows that the characters does that I feel like in 40K I want it to be here's the line you draw it I don't care how many walls get knocked down like you put it on something big and flashy like the Kamehameha through an entire side of the battlefield right yeah like I want this big I see what you're saying cuz like we've had some and honestly any of the ones that we have are going to be like it's just an extra little bit of flare at the and that's fine but like it's not needed then but if we put it on this big [ __ ] off cannon that's on a 400 Point Body you can do anything then it's like all right let's make it good right like let's make it insane yeah if you toss it on like a 400 Point Body you can make it do a lot and still not be worth it but be awesome like draw a point from the model to the end of the board everything in that takes damage yeah like maybe you have a range limiter like a normal gun does but the just wave your measuring stick of choice that sounded weird I was like wow that's uh yeah that 4 in measuring stick mhm pop up on the table whip that measuring stick out make sure it's not cold that'll affect how is the pool thermal contraction all right can I have one that's not DotA sure we got to move on from that disaster let's do a Final Fantasy 11 one so my wife can divorce me all right so this started off as one that a patron recommended when I was having them spitball they're all terrible at it but every once in a while one would name something good they brought up the idea of like a different style of stealth to do a surprise attack assassination thing drop your stealth to get a kill like an actual like Assassin in all of the stealth games that we've ever seen yeah as opposed to just no shoot me please no yeah so I instead of whatever they were talking about with like Dota or whatever I went for the classic choice of Final Fantasy 11 with sneak attack trick attack as a uh Thief ability oh yeah dude SATA get that rotation in get it ready SATA viper strike into the skill chain oh baby here comes the Black Mage getting the magic burst off go boom yeah so the idea of it is basically to do an alternate stealth where your unit is probably like fully immune to getting shot at or whatever right like true invisibility your opponent can even watch it walk around the board or whatever but can't interact with yet I think that that's how invisibility would have to be done cuz like it's not a hidden thing it's just it's not interactable yeah and then you get your attack off but now you've dropped invisibility and you're naked ass in the wind right yeah you get to be the Assassin but now good luck getting out alive right I love the idea idea of that of like you get to do a ton of damage on that first attack try to take out like a leader with some type of like high damage Precision attack mhm and then it's like and now I die it feels very genan steery or like liery it actually reminds me a lot of how the lior worked in Devastation of ball the book I mean we've also got the imperial agents that are all like assassins yeah one of them yeah the shape shifter would be a perfect example of this of like have them be sneaky and then get killed yeah I thought long hard about trying to get invisibility in 40K and the only way I can think of it is the unit moves around as normal and everybody like sees it except it's just not interactable until it drops the invisibility and does thing I love the idea of it I guarantee you someone has already typed into the comment section about how this would be awful and toxic my answer would be they managed to make Evelyn kha'zix Rengar all of these things work in League of Legends I'm sure DOTA has 46 equivalents right we know that this can be balanced you can have assassins be very powerful very frail and be balanced within a game occasionally causing rage moments but that's part of the fun of a game the problem is going to be Games Workshop has to actually handle this and they've got a track record right it's definitely an ability that could be easily abused you would have to get very competitively minded players involved to think of all the abuse cases and figure out the flashiest way you could implement this and have it still be pretty benign balanced out like you're accounting for it in the balance of the game GW doesn't have a great track record with that so I mean SATA was always like a positioning thing you're not really talking specifically about that no but that's another great idea of like flanking type stuff which I know used to exist and I know you used to be able to shoot a tank from a certain angle and get a critical shot and hit the explosive chamber within and blah blah blah I don't care flanking is a cool idea Jean stealer Cults did it with their ninth Edition exposing a vehicle by shooting it from two sides type stuff it's been in 40K before totally fine but I was more talking about the coming out of invisibility to get a cool big attack there's plenty of stealth factions in 40K to choose from and stealth is underutilized in tabletop other than the literal mechanic called stealth which is just a good stat buff all right you want to know another one that I thought about far too much but haven't found a good way of doing yet go for it you're on a roll cuz you mentioned corsairs you have my attention all night it's creep oh Creep from Starcraft Starcraft so it's like Zerg basically spreads and you know it it gives a little bit of vision and makes all their units faster and like it has to be there to build stuff on and I am 100% sure this has existed in narrative within the past couple years I am sure there's probably one in one of the current Crusade missions that I haven't read through this is too obvious to not exist yeah I haven't read through all of it but I haven't seen one that takes it to quite the right level of inevitability spreading kind of thing specifically with one of the big things for creep is like you can spread it from you know they're called creep tumors but it's like oh this spreads to a point and then around there it spreads and then you make a new point and around there it spreads and you know you've also got like a unit that can go around and start spreading it somewhere and like at least for Starcraft it's a mass difference between being on and being off creep for your buff I don't know and like this is definitely something that I'm not trying to Advocate to go into the main game play it's a [ __ ] nightmare no no it's very clearly a narrative Mission yeah it's very clearly a narrative Mission but yeah it would be a fun little thing to add on to like stop the spreading yeah but Brad what do you want to talk about next oh screw it I'll do a StarCraft one oh [ __ ] I like this idea it's more a unit than anything thing but the siege tank it's like one of my favorite things in Starcraft 1 I love turtling I love lurkers lurker D is probably where we spent half of our time lurker D let's go anything to do with setting up a siege tank Hillside and dude those Siege lnes with Missle turrets just felt right but like how does 40 K's astrom militarum not have something this cool yeah I guess it's because they're supposed to look dirly and oldfashioned like everything and guard purposely looks like a a terrible Old World War II tank but if guard doesn't have it at least to should have it right yeah so okay so we give it to TAA freshen up toa's tanks to be a little more appealing and that could actually work with TOA of like make big scary guns and like the downside is it can't really move yeah hilariously to is actually where I can think of something close to this of the storm surge has his clamp down legs he used to have to actually clamp down in order to Fire and it was like a two- turn ordeal and it was terrible that's actually the closest how actually does have something that somewhat resembles a siege tank I guess would you rather have GW design a Transformer toy absolutely yes yes 100% it's part of what I want yes absolutely required I mean if it's going to be that then it has to be tow you don't want two models to exist and you swap the models on the battlefield Transformer model look I've seen the AOS team make the most beautiful sculpts imaginable you can make a Siege tank I have faith in ugw give us that to siege tank it would be so dope and like the thing is is like you you brought up the storm surge and like that is kind of what it is but the siege tank was so cool because yeah the downside was it can't move the upside was the gun [ __ ] killed everything and in Mobile mode it was still okay it was fine it's just you wanted to go to Siege Bo not being able to move is a big downside you can make it have good upside all right let's move on you can't name DOTA any other game you play Pick Magic we have an entire podcast around it give us something for magic okay in Magic we have some cards and abilities that have alternate costs such as sacrificing creatures and discarding cards or paying life and I would like to see more of this kind of mechanic in the game the first thing that comes into my mind is blood angels for that no so the blood angels one I get you're going for a Vampire theme it's more tragic back ground stuff for them than active battle one I actually think a I know this was a thing in Thousand Suns of nth you could take Mortals on a nearby chaff unit to increase your character psychic basically drain their life to power the spell totally works for chaos for like sacrificing your cultist for extra 100% for that drari I think it works in sisters for the whole martyrdom theme of like there should be more ways to have sisters give up their lives on purpose for an effect and because it will fuel your miracle dice like that's a good use of sacrifice design is getting multiple bonuses out of doing something negative to turn it around into a positive given their mechanics that's something that like it just seems obvious that that's what you would have as an ability somewhere to like combo Synergy that's not how Cotes are written do you think you can use these on Jean Steelers Jean Steelers is another one I thought of and I can see the hard aspect being used on its favor technically guard has had it with Kar being able to blow a dude's brain out to autop pass morale it's existed there Orcs have had it with head bashing having a war boss bust a dude's skull so that they autopass morale so these have existed in certain ways but it's been very minor and just sprinkled in as like the budding of an idea and I would love to see them actually like commit and Detachment entirely devoted to it yes like something that feels purposeful within a faction's identity and actually like built around it sisters is a huge one for me because like their whole idea is self-sacrifice it would play really well I mean there was always the idea of like you can just make the defiler like in Starcraft that consumes to get energy and stuff sure there's the idea of like have a chaos character who could you know start draining ctist lives for extra CP or something you can skin a lot of different ways to make sacrifice work very well lore wise in 40K like come on it works the whole way through the setting is full of this stuff but the game is not and it's weird it is weird all right so the defiler actually has a bunch of spells ones that consume to get energy and other one's plagued to like basically kill stuff as a dot but it's got the dark swarm and this is an area that no direct range damage can do damage to anything in that area melee still works Splash still works interesting but it's anything any unit in this area can't take direct ranged damage I feel like this is a stronger version of aelor ability you know what that reminds me the armor from from Dune the Dune armor protects against fast projectiles right but you can hit a guy with the armor if you go slowly so the entire fighting system in Dune is to go with slow punches and slow stabbing so the armor doesn't reflect the fast projectile and for our audience here we are aware that this turned into 40K with void Shields and is the whole beginning of the excuse for derping around in melee combat in 40K it's not near nearly as well executed as it was in Dune but okay but yeah it's definitely uh very different it's just another one of those area denials kind of thing I almost guarantee this is in a narrative map we played in Crusade last Edition maybe it was I feel like there was like a void Shield or something you could activate and it would take the next shot for something within 6 in of it or something I'm trying to remember and I know this was on an actual Forge World unit that had void Shields where it would eat the shots for the first like six shots with automatically fail that hit it well so like one of the things that I've always enjoyed about the defiler dark swarm is it's not your units only any range damage that's in that area enemy unit doesn't [ __ ] matter man ranged weapons with direct damage don't do [ __ ] it's definitely cool I don't think you can give it to a faction that focuses in melee though it has to belong to something where it's not that strong for them and can backfire yeah it's got to be lar I know lar will cause certain parts of the audience to like freak out out but like something frailer I don't know exactly I mean dark swarm is one of the strongest if not the strongest abilities in Starcraft it reminds me of the idea of the like sneaky ambushing mechanic of like very strong and flashy you have to make sure you balance it right and that's why a lot of these mechanics don't exist in tenth and everything is very boring and safe so that they could make sure they didn't screw up the balance too bad yeah and that's fair but at the same time some of those unbalanced things are the most exciting and cool they are flashy things are important for a game's appeal you want something sexy that you remember so speaking of sexy green stroke let's go back to do I'm the editor all right yeah yeah you're going to force us to do it anyway so a cool ability that he has is he links two enemy units and if you throw anything at one of those units it gets duplicated and also thrown at the other unit so you duplicate your shots you duplicate your spells your abilities all right that's kind of neat that would be cool that sounds perfect for thousand cents for me you could do it for a couple factions I think it's definitely a psychic kind of thing though I almost feel like you could skin it for jari I feel like there's something like right on the tip of my tongue where I could skin it for jari and make it very cool yeah where like yeah you've like linked two people for torture or something like that yeah yeah yeah like a shared torture shared animosity whatever especially because duari while they're somewhat Elite they're more frail and can have trouble with certain types of units unless you spam dark lances but I'm more thinking about this of like you link their Elite unit to their chaff unit and then have the witches blender the chaff I could see a couple factions doing this it's clearly chaos would love this I almost feel like you get away with it with tyranids too in the same way you could with basically any psychic heavy faction yeah it feels out of character for things like elar or Space Marines it doesn't feel like their stick maybe for like Inquisition themed or something but yeah it's a bit weird also feels out of team for necrons yeah necrons doesn't care necrons would just fire more same with Orcs they don't care they're just going to fire more don't give a [ __ ] two for one sound awful to Orcs they want more fight not less fight that's less DACA the [ __ ] that would be cool though I could see some fun it doesn't have to be too strong either all right I think we're about done yeah the only thing I wanted to say before was like the Colossus having the ability to just like walk up terrain cuz it's so big that should be something that like Titanic units just kind of ignore terrain I also have one more okay only if it's not from DOTA okay so the ballistic from Apex Legends he has an ability that overcharges enemy weapons that could be a cool ability to have as a counter to units that shoot a lot of Dhaka so you're not just talking about overloading like in 40K terms with plasma you're talking like in general he can like jam weapons yeah so we can have a character that his role in the game would be to kind of stop the units that shoot a lot of Daka this actually feels ad mecky I feel like you can definitely get an adme character to do this yeah and I know in zinch we had the make perils worse last Edition which was hilarious the time I got it to happen on my [ __ ] you it's never supposed to happen not even the one on you I had it happen to to our buddy who was playing death guard and he had his single death guard psycher perils I paid the CP to double the perils damage killed the psycher caused the explosion from a psycher dying from apparels and for like him failing and then me paying a CP he took a total of like 10 mortal wounds cuz of how he was set up this kind of gets into the whole like story time I remember this years later thing like I love stuff like that so I I'm very on board with the idea of this for shooting and I feel like we could make this like ad mecky yeah I just wonder if you would do this style of ballistic of okay they can shoot but if they shoot too much then like blows up or they can't shoot for the next turn or if you would be like make all of the ones that they roll work like plasma they're all hazardous all hazardous yeah there's a few ways of doing it I'm for this I actually think this is a good one of course this is a good one it came from me and it wasn't DOTA we let him on the episode like once in a blue moon and he just hams it up every time and you people just keep eating it up and believing his [ __ ] there was never 13 ideas that waska that were [ __ ] no definitely not this episode ends up as like 20 minutes DOTA I never talked about DOTA he keeps talking like he keeps bringing up DOTA this brazilian's not obsessed with DOTA at all it's very weird I'm thinking he's not Brazilian at all oh man this is uh this was fun like there's so many more and not just so many more DOTA there are a lot of DOTA on this list we didn't get to yet by the way but like there's like other Final Fantasy and like I mean there's the entire aspect of any of the games that have board layouts you know like Grid or hexagon or whatever I mean that's a strategy game genre that I [ __ ] love just tactics in general yeah it is fun to think about how a bunch of these would go into 40K and it's not only abilities we have like a lot of systems that we could steal from other games too like the Gin impact element system oh man we could get into that one too that's a spicy meatball but that's I feel like that one you can get into like a more AOS setting with that one but that could be good for a future one who knows yeah but anyway I think that's enough for this topic we've been covering this for like almost 2 hours on our end so I don't know how long this episode is but there we go as a final thing before we go we have decided the episode that will Air the week of April ail 29th will be book club for the fall of kadia by Robert wrath you have until then to read the book and be all prepared if you're afraid of spoilers wow you literally picked the latest possible while still keeping to our initial idea it may have something to do with the fact that I just begged my wife to read the book with me so we could have her on again yeah no I'm I'm not complaining all right I just think it's funny I'm sticking to a GW definition of late in a month yep if the video is a day late we're screwed I'm just like GW now Brello this this edit job has to be done on time I'll start editing now yeah right all right and there one last thing buy the shirt buy the shirt by they join the merch site they don't even know how to sell merch buy the shirt we should shout out all of our patrons for the month these people keep us running they are 4K fart God damn it the first one got them 999 Adrien Frank Alex fuja all nighter Andreas Bam's Nemesis Cameron R Christopher garano Craig judge Dominic colaso dragon egg Edward Lawrence Ellis Corton Ethan Gerard Finn Smileys grundle bundle gun game 4453 garados Hyperion TV iron father Jacob Gibson Jared deera Jaden Jeff stumo Joel Jonathan kiwi fruit bird Kaylee Santos Matthew sushima Michael melter monkey 218 morfield 55 Nikki NJ Harlem owl B bark produs 7331 Riley goodard Robert surma rookie XP Samuel Summerfield Scott Gray severt Sage serson The Marine who plays to the Crusader 133 Tobias Tyler Luke Vault guardian webe and Yasser zazo thank you so much for supporting the show we also have producers and they are Brandon janky Demolition Man Dr lace y c Robert eleno and Timothy Cody thank you so much take one of them [ __ ] hell let's get out of here for the week though sounds [Music] good [Music] n

Channel: Poorhammer

Views: 72,515

Keywords: warhammer, warhammer 40k, 40k, space marines, necrons, tyranids, admech, custodes, ffxi, starcraft, dota, lol, genshin impact, elden ring

Id: KwJx0epr1is

Length: 53min 12sec (3192 seconds)

Published: Tue Mar 12 2024