Parents, Teachers & Students Debate the US Education System | VICE Debates

the privileged discussion like that's a great conversation for you to have with your child but I don't think that taxpayer-funded hatred should be something that we allow in our schools okay bro real talk though like brother to brother teaching White Privilege does not inherently mean black people are less factually incorrect [Music] SATs I'm Mina durson I'm a correspondent here at Vice news and we're going to talk about education today we tried to bring a very diverse mix of voices here obviously we're not going to be able to represent every single opinion out there when it comes to education but we are really thankful for your time and for your perspectives I also have two kids in school so you know have experienced some of this from the parents side as well so let's just start really broadly what's the purpose of Education I think the purpose of education is twofold one to help build and support the individual but also help build and support society as a whole because even though you may not have a kid in education you pay taxes to public school because we as a society depend on and need education for society to work I think diverse education is to educate and not endoctrinate and I think that in a lot of ways we've strayed from that in the original purpose of what it's supposed to be I think it should be intelligence and character I think you should be able to understand the world around you and understand who you are and your purpose and try to make the world a better place I think that it has to be a mix of the skills you know memorizing the formulas you know understanding the world around you but then also what to do with it and just to go off that the idea that education you have to balance the importance of memorizing the quadratic formula while simultaneously addressing social and political issues respectively so children have both the know-how general knowledge and also kind of self-awareness and character so they're able to develop their own opinions yeah I think that the purpose of education is to understand the world that you exist in and use that understanding as a means for creating change or even understanding yourself on a deeper level um I believe the purpose is simply just to prepare the individual to be successful in the society that they exist in critical thinking learn how to live out your full potential so you can be independent and everything else really flows from there the purpose of education is to prepare children for the real life and also make so that they are literate so I think the purpose is to raise the next generation of leaders and when you think about what you want your leaders to be like you want them to be knowledgeable and you want them to be compassionate you want them to be self-aware you want them to understand the best way to move forward not just for themselves personally but for their whole Community when we talk about who's doing the educating who should decide what's being taught parents I think that parents should have a huge say in what's going on in the classroom because it's their kids not ours as a public school teacher 15 years I've always I was always aware that these are not my children we have to make sure that we're respecting parents and their beliefs and their values I think the Constitution agrees with that um here in America ranging back to the early 1900s plenty of Supreme Court cases have ruled in that favor that it is the parents right ultimately to decide a child's education medical needs Etc I wouldn't push back though and say that there does need to be collaboration right I completely respect your idea of it is not our job as Educators to put forth a belief in front of children right that includes not perpetuating parents beliefs in the classroom as well in my opinion that would be keeping a non-biased Viewpoint simply presenting issues and then allowing kids to decide for themselves I would agree that I think it needs to be a collaborative effort the way that we decide curriculum in Texas is that work groups comprised of community members Educators parents even in some cases students and public service officials come together to draft curriculum plans and then it's ultimately decided on by our state board of education which has a lot of kind of assistance from parents as well so I think that that that kind of format can be really effective because it also empowers students to become involved in the fate of their education as a student myself I think that that's incredibly important because our perspectives need to be heard as well the voices of parents need to be heard in that equation but unfortunately what we've seen recently is that parents his voices have been demonized in this process you've seen parents who've criticized local school boards labeled terrorists simply for caring about the quality of the of their education that their child is receiving these teachers are temporary caretakers when they come back home it's the parent who has to explain that this is this radical belief that was put in front of you this was this idea that you've never been raised around that that parent now has to explain and at the end of the day that isn't just confined to a classroom now it's bleeding into their upbringing and there's only one person responsible for their upbringing and it's the parents it's not the Educators not the teacher it's their parents I like the idea of the collaboration and obviously parents voices belong at that table I also like the emphasis on students having a say in this and also other people that adults that aren't parents I'm invested in that too even though I don't have children of my own and I hear what you're saying about having to like parents needing to confront or address I guess like what kids are learning at school but giving kids the exposure to other ideas or other things that they wouldn't be exposed to otherwise is I think part of what's going to help raise the next generation of people that are able to look outside their own lived experience but I think that oftentimes those different ideas are presented in the classroom as a student as the only idea when you're being taught that oh this there's you know this many genders or anything like this where you haven't been exposed to that in your own household it's being presented as like the end-all be-all when it actually isn't it's about educating and not indoctrinating as long as it's that is presented as a PowerPoint to well there's people who believe this but there's also people who believe this that's okay the reality of it is that in most classrooms across the country that isn't what's happening and to piggyback off of that one side is labeled as a bigot white supremacist homophobic there's a lot of parents in America that are Christian or you know they they believe in two genders gender binary and if you say that as a teacher especially you could be labeled as homophobic so there isn't this unbiased classroom because there's one side that can't really be uh you know as loud as the other side without risk of you know losing our jobs even but you two are kind of the ones that brought in the conflict of like there is an indoctrination going on and only one side it has this opinion and this side is not allowed to talk and we have to be quiet when really you guys are actually the loudest in regards to this issue thus far right yeah yeah so yes I wouldn't necessarily say that that's the question what I would say though is like I I do want to push away if possible in it but I'd love for you to hear this right is that idea of someone sees me and they go oh you're one of those that teach that there's 72 different types of gender Desmond fambrini he him gender fluid bisexual my students do not know this because it doesn't come out because I'm a learning socialist and it's my job to educate and teach a curriculum right now if I'm asked directly by a parent or if there's confusion oh why do you wear makeup same reason why girls do because it's fun for me it doesn't need to be this very controversial I'm going to mess with this child's upbringing they're going to go home and they're going to turn into a gender fluid they're gonna think they're 72 genders I think that's a question you say you should go ask your parents about how they feel about that well so okay okay teachers are supposed to teach reading math science the things that are actually going to make them contributors of society answering a child's questions about whether or not men or women should be wearing makeup or not is I don't think within that realm okay so you said science right so we're talking about a physical science we're talking about human anatomy and biology here so a child says I thought boys could not wear makeup I have an X and Y chromosome and I'm wearing makeup I could factually answer that without indoctrinating with any opinion but it's in no way scientific your answer that question whether is that not scientific I would say maybe cultural or it's a perception or an opinion but it's in no way scientific anyone else I am a chatty person pause and I'm going to let's see if anyone else has something to say so I just had one question for you because not all homes are are welcoming or open or conversation or safe so how do we how do we balance that I think that what we're saying is that there's certain conversations that are not to be had with a teacher and I think that the argument that a lot of people on the right and conservatives are making is that we just don't feel as if actors of the state should be having conversations that are taxpayer funding conversations with children about conversations that have not come up in their own households and to that point if you can't talk about God in the classroom why can we talk about every gender under the sun right I think that's the the the conundrum that we we find ourselves in if we are Banning those conversations we've banned those a long time ago then how can we have these conversations just because they're belong to a different side of the political lab so I think we actually talk about God in the classroom all the time right yeah who's taught religion who's taught world religions who's taught like history in the way that you know Puritans and that's okay because God is part of the fabric of history and whatever else development perspective this is how Christianity originally I understand how Islam originated I don't talk about like this is what this gender is and this is if you feel this way then there's gender affirmation therapy all those things I think you actually bring up a really good parallel of like I feel comfortable and I feel like it is okay to talk about identity issues the same way we talk about God not indoctrinating anyone not telling this is what you have to be or you have to believe but saying this is something that some people believe but in the sense of gender identity I don't see that parallel how is that making someone more literate more successful what I hear you saying is that learning about different gender identities does not make somebody a more considerate well-rounded person but learning about different religions does make you a more considerate I'm saying that is a part of History I don't understand where gender identity Falls within what we should be teaching religious history and really God comes into play in terms of History cool but don't gay people and trans people too it's not like I'm the first transgender person to ever walk this earth like there are trans people that were and gay people who were part of major movements in this country like from the Civil Rights Movement to the feminist movement to I mean obviously Stonewall like isn't that part of History too let's just take a step back so just show of hands who here thinks public school is the best option for kids okay and who thinks private school is the best option for kids who thinks home school is the best option for kids and then some of you guys didn't raise your hands at all it's so challenging to pick one right answer for that because essentially what you're asking is who do you trust the most with your children who do you trust to give them the cultural values that I have and then fill in the gaps where I don't necessarily know the answer but I trust that they're experts and are going to give my children the attention that they need in order to develop so that they can be a better version of themselves if I had to choose one it's public school it is the best tool we have to give everybody a chance at a good education no matter where you come from how much money you have public schools where not everybody thinks the same and people are coming from all walks of life is a good like microcosm of that Global Experience where you can learn critical thinking skills and learn how to be a good Community member because not everybody looks like you or thinks like you Kyle you're shaking your house well first of all our schools are more segregated ever than yeah Public Schools especially in blue States New York and California have the most segregated schools and on top of that we are in a place where our public schools are not safe especially the last 20 years and I just don't see why sending our kids to these environments where it's unsafe we also used to be I because I used to be on the left we used to be against the institutionalization of our children these kids are being institutionalized having these places where there's two thousand three thousand kids I'm okay with public school but the problem with it is that it's become an environment where it's just it's almost like like the prison to the school-to-prison pipeline we used to talk about that in the 90s we're not talking about that anymore and I think that's something that parents need to wake up about and Americans wake up about the institutionalization of our children as I talk about the school-to-prison pipeline yeah all day every day and I hear what you're saying that it's terrible that there were parents who are sending their kids to schools that are not safe however what about the parents that don't have a choice like I'm thinking about like the most marginalized Community when I said public schools here because I agree with you the public public schools have a lot of work to do to become the safe places where our kids are not in institutions where they're ignored or not giving the services they need and also for the people that don't have a choice and that is the only option their kids have I just believe that's worth fighting for that's why I said absolutely I'm a big advocate for school choice well why don't we just show kids who who believes in school choice can you specify like what so that's where parents can apply the money that they pay to taxes they get vouchers and they can put that into any school that they want it's very popular in red States right now and a lot of blue states are against it especially teachers unions are against it because it's taking money away from the public schools and creating more of a competitive market right that's why I wouldn't raise my hand yeah yeah sometimes with school choice it gets a little bit tricky right I had my first class had the first day I had 25 students by day two I had 19. because six parents switched out of the class because they saw me and they were like there's no freaking way before I even got a word in as a parent I would want to know like do you not think that that is okay or they're right to withdraw when they see you because ultimately you're probably an excellent educator I appreciate that um I have no doubt about that but I think we we get into Muddy Waters when we start trying to take that choice away from the parents do I think that it is okay for a parent to see me and go not around my kid no I don't think that's okay I feel like that's really crossing the line because you are for lack of better words discriminating against me openly that's like seeing a black teacher and being like there's no way it is the same it is the same it's still the right of the parent to make that decision as to whether or not they want their child to learn from you okay like it's still that parents right like you can disagree with their motivations their motives their ideas would you say that's still their chat this started around school choice even if you want to decide on a different learning environment for your kid the people that do not have the option to send their child to a different place the bar should not be so low and that's that's my concern with school choice is that sometimes people think that if every if everyone flees to the suburbs who is teaching in these schools where everyone has decided they don't want their tax dollars going to and that's that's one of the big concerns with funding of Education being the way that it's set up it essentially makes it so that the people that are stuck with these as their options don't end up with as good a school and everyone deserves to have their kid go to a good school well if there's school choice they won't be stuck with those options they can have other options that's the whole point of that also it is the school district's job to appropriately use those budgets most of the budget in the schools aren't going to the teachers we got cafeteria workers janitors all of these people that are getting paid they used to be nine out of 10 people that were employees of schools and districts were teachers now it's 50 50. so there is some mismanagement of funds in this country we actually fund our kids really well yeah I agree wholeheartedly too many administrators just to go back a little bit to like when you guys are raising your hands about the different choices you raise your hand for homeschooling can you talk us through like why why do you think homeschooling is the best option if we look at at the history of this country a lot of people were homeschooled a lot of our Founders were homeschooled like they were they only went to school until third grade A lot of them and I think what has happened is parents have decided that the government is going to do a better job at raising their children than themselves we have also come to a place where school is taking up the majority of our day and we have this mistrust of parents that they can't educate their own children and I think that that's wrong I think that a lot of parents and if you look at homeschool data like my friend Phil right here he's got seven kids and he's homeschooling homeschooling them all and actually homeschool kids are turning out really well I think you bring up a lot of very valid points but I have to say and I just want your opinion on this I would never homeschool my own kids and I want my kids to be smarter than than me than I ever was how am I going to have a child that is smarter and does better than I do if I'm their only teacher you grow alongside your child okay I think as a teacher I feel like I've learned the most in my life as a teacher like more so than in college and you know so parents becoming teachers actually good for them as well okay and then even in the public schools a lot of teachers are relying on the lesson plans but speaking from experience I got to give the credit where it's dude my wife does the homeschooling and I've watched that process of her learning alongside you know to make sure when they ask these questions I'm getting knowledge on the material as well so I can help you get through it nothing replaces that value that bonding time that she gets to have with the kids right and I am I'm a stay-at-home mom with my own kids so we're a one income family we're lucky enough to be able to live off of my husband's salary would you say that most common School families have one parent working I do think the statistics show that that is the case it's like the only way to do it well pretty much and you know another misconception though is that they think it's a matter of income and homeschool families have to be rich and et cetera and I think the average homeschool family makes like 65k so the reality is they're scaling back and making sacrifices for this lifestyle because they value what is coming out of it so let's just say that for the people that homeschool isn't an option what is for so many people it's not I do not think that school choice is the way to go about that which I know is a lot of people's answer to that let's can we just get get Sean in here what what's your what are your thoughts on the school choice gives people an exit ramp you get to send your kid to a school that best fits what you think is best for their development at the end of the day it's kitchen table conversations about we've worked hard to raise a family we want to spend our money in a way that best fits our child best fits our family and when you don't have school choice you do make those trade-offs there are real consequences there the school is can is considered one of those shared spaces one of those last kind of shared spaces where you might bump into someone who maybe comes from a different background than you has a different ideology than you what do you lose if you homeschool and then you're not putting yourself in these kind of situations what you lose is negative influences one of the biggest things I think when it comes to homeschool is keeping my kids away from your baggage we've went and taken our children to Pride parades and you know what I mean we've been there we've been loving and we show support to the people there but at the same time we explain our views on the matter that we believe marriage is between a man and a woman and from experience and talking to people I understand that a lot of people who choose that lifestyle it is based on trauma a lot of were molested or sexually assaulted as children so I don't think it's okay for me to teach to my children that this is something normal we ought to accept when it doesn't progress Society we would not be able to procreate if everybody were to choose that lifestyle so I think it's okay for me as a parent to say hey this exists that exists but this is our view on it and this is how we want to present it to them do you think it's somewhat problematic that you're going like well this is our Viewpoint that marriage is between a man and a woman because we can't move Society forward with gay couples like we have factually proven that incorrect I can literally I can actually tell you that gay parents on average make exceptional parents and do exceptional things with kids because they adopt and they only adopt kids when they are financially capable which actually makes kids of gay parents actually more successful and academically competent so gay parents actually are very good at moving Society forward and we have the statistics that be a long-term solution though if a large population chose to choose that lifestyle there would be no children okay sorry did you choose to be straight sir I've been teaching for 15 years I will say that there is some kids now that are going with for that community that are doing it not out of a genuine and there's pockets of them too like you'll notice like friend groups of girls that will all of a sudden decide that there are now trans the idea of lgbtq being trending and the idea of teaching kids that being gay is a choice those are two very well I answered that yes I chose to be straight absolutely so when you can you tell us about it like like you like so you actually be attracted to me if you wanted to be absolutely yeah okay and let me explain I have seen transgendered people who I thought were born female that were very attractive I didn't know now once I find out that that's not what you are I am choosing not to pursue that that's what I mean so yes you can be attracted to someone that is of another gender let's talk about what what do you think should be taught about gender identity in school what do you think is being taught I just want to I want to go back to something you were saying earliest related to this about like you're seeing Trends and I am too right last semester when I was teaching I had a trans kid in every classroom and I was like whoa when I started teaching it was wine in school and they were really for it too they like went for it and I'm hearing you that that is something I'm seeing too in the classrooms Fair okay now I'm not going to presume to be in the heads of those kids and to understand like what's real for them or whatever but I will tell you this historically speaking a disproportionate number of kids who are gay who are trans or any of the lgbtqia fill in the letters right didn't live to see adulthood maybe that's we don't why we don't part of why we don't have an older generation of trans adults because I attended a funeral of a trans student last month a lot of them didn't make it and so when I hear about kids like feeling comfortable enough to try expressing something where maybe it wouldn't be they wouldn't be able to do in other spaces and I understand that maybe that's not you want for you your kids but I'm thinking about the most marginalized and vulnerable people and unfortunately statistically for our dis our queer youth disproportionately they fall in that category mind you with the whole concept of school choice I'm all for parents who agree with what you're teaching sending their children to you I just think ultimately it should be within the parent to make that choice what do you think should be taught in sex ed I think it should be health education yes I I taught middle school and high school and they started giving it to my students in seventh grade and I have students come back to me traumatized because I think sex ed has gone away from what it was there are some lessons like for example they have a lesson where the kids in third grade in the New Jersey curriculum there's a picture of a woman's spread eagle and they're learning all the different body parts of the the clitoris and the stuff every child is different some are not developmentally ready for this or mature enough for it I grew up with abstinence education that's pretty rare we didn't talk about sex ed until middle school but mostly 10th grade in high school but I think that middle school is far too late to be talking about sex ed and it's not because I think that second graders are you know wanting to be promiscuous but like having sex ed scaffolded because it is a preventative measure against sexual assault often being done in the home just because that happens in the home doesn't mean that we need to label all parents as not capable of teaching sex to their children and giving it to teachers but teachers for a lot of children are the only trusted adults and it is incredibly dangerous to remove teachers who are trained professionals to deal with these crises in the home from the situation and that's going that's that's just like a funnel for child abuse I think a huge thing that's missing in education in the schools when it comes to sex that is consent yeah you know there's not being taught at all to my understanding I never learned it in schools and that creates consequences when you look at the situations that are going on here I think that we have such a hyper sexualized Society obviously kids are having sex younger they're hooking up younger it's just reality I would rather those individuals and also from a pro-life perspective know how to have safe sex and preventative sex it prevents pregnancies then them to just go around willy-nilly just doing whatever they want so there's a lot of middle schoolers in the Dallas Fort Worth area that are getting pregnant at earlier ages and we're starting to rank like the highest nationally in terms of Middle School pregnancies and that's because a lot of middle schoolers are again like you said like getting sexually involved earlier the cardi B music whatever it is it's happening and we need to be able to address it and students need to be able to be equipped with the skills to understand how to have safe sex if parents aren't having those conversations at home and middle schoolers are getting pregnant anyways like why can we not include that in the school so they have some form of information again it just goes back to the fact that so many of this issue is just not black and white it really is 50 Shades of Gray because like there there's just no one-size-fits all approach the way we educate our children what age do you think said should be taught in schools like star ring at what age probably at some point during secondary school where because if we're talking about it scientifically kids need to understand that science is a body of knowledge that we're building together this is what we currently understand about human anatomy as far as like actually getting into intercourse and the details of all of that in my experience I usually at least start giving that understanding around seven eight years old I think that sex ed is a lifelong discussion and it starts I mean as soon as you can communicate now that doesn't mean that you are giving a high schooler's curriculum to a three-year-old but I'm already talking about consent and using proper anatomical language with my children and that's where it begins and it ends in adulthood I think as long as it happens in a way it's such that to the point you are making that like kids are being protected that's that's what I would say we prioritize I would say go back to the way it was when I was in elementary school they separated the boys and the girls and the girls watched a video about their period and all these things the guys watch them other video yeah it was health class and then we didn't talk about sex education the actual contraception all of those things until High School I think we need to separate health education from sex education health education should be lifelong no sex ed for now the way it's being taught in a lot of these states let's talk a little bit about other things that fall into the responsibility of what teachers do in the classrooms what is CRT critical research in reality is this complex legal institution that relates race to all of the institutions of America since its founding and since its birth and it's something that I've never learned about in my classroom I don't have any friends that have learned about it in their classrooms it's something that's often taught on The Graduate level or the undergraduate level so I think that it's kind of a like not a great term to use in reference to conversations surrounding K-12 education because it's not actually something that's even on like the docket for consideration that's a perfect description I could not have done a better description if I tried it is in our schools I saw the lesson that contain critical race theory in California the words critical race at the rate and yeah she's not wrong yeah not wrong because some states have implemented CRT into their curriculum it means different things for different districts so this is about to be a very complicated conversation so in my district and this is in California they're gonna they're requiring class called ethnic studies in order to graduate and in the class they were taught about critical race Theory they were taught the definition they were taught to analyze school policy through critical race Theory and they were taught how critical race theory is beneficial to analyze the U.S it's basically like this idea that every institution in America every institution that interaction that you have has some sort of element of race and usually there's a hierarchy of oppressed versus oppressor and there are kids in America in K-12 that are being taught that and I'm so tired of people saying that's not happening when it is and then when I expose it I'm being called racial slurs and names for exposing it and I'm like come on guys like so I think we need to stop saying not being taught in America and changes to should it be taught in America because it is it is there are teachers that are teaching this so there's a recent bill that was passed in Texas called Senate Bill 3 and it completely revamped Texas's curriculum standards and basically eliminated all requirements for teaching of history education in Texas that relate to diverse perspectives so teachers can go through the entirety of K-12 Education Without ever talking about slavery as an institution even though it's thoroughly ingrained into just the history just the basic facts of America's history my understanding I don't see the Banning of slave slavery being taught it's not the Banning yeah it's the issue issue is that it's no longer I know that bill it's no longer required another bill and I know it also states that you're not supposed to teach it in a way that causes mental anguish so it does not ban it it doesn't ban the talking of the institution of slavery but it does create a loophole for teachers to never touch on the topic at any point in a child's education and that is something that is happening and it's something that is happening to peers of mine it is something that is happening predominantly in communities outside of I guess my home city of Dallas but having traveled and having talked to students across the state of Texas I can confidently say that there are teachers who are not teaching very key facts of American History because critical race Theory conversations have so clouded the teaching of history as an entire like whole it's not often called CRT anymore it's called diversity equity and inclusion it's called all these different names and labels because of how divisive of a thing that it is and I think at the end of the day the big thing here is is that let's teach black history no one on the right is saying do not teach black history do not teach slavery if we forget those lessons of the past we'll bound to repeat but what we're also saying is that stop being vindictive towards white people for being white no one alive today was a slave and no one alive today owned slaves and so for white children to sit in a classroom be blamed for sins that they themselves not commit is wrong for black people for black children to sit in a classroom and be told that because of the color of your skin well it doesn't matter how hard you try you're really not going to go that far because the society hates you and then you have all these structural barriers preventing your success that is also wrong that is not lessons of hope that is not lessons of opportunity and I think that is what schools should be about you can't create the next generation of leaders if they are never capable of seeing themselves as Leaders right and I think like that is what CRT unfortunately in some ways it does to young children of color what CRT means to me is obviously really different from what it means to you and when you were saying before like kids are being anguished I am not for kids feeling guilty about being born in the body they were born in that that's not what I taught I mean what did I teach well for one thing I taught about slavery for another thing I taught about like the Ripple effects of slavery that we're still feeling today in no way saying that people of color are less than or can't be or no not the opposite saying like people have persevered through things that I myself as a white person will never understand to really make this micro you know the way I see it is there is no reason that kids of a certain age right because it's different teaching with six-year-old and teaching to a 17 year old or in college shouldn't learn about the history of slavery the history of redlining you know the history of Italians being lynched in this country etc etc looking at the facts and looking at some of the horrible things that have happened so we can learn from it that is a totally different conversation than when you've got instances like in Cupertino California where you have seven and eight-year-olds who are being sat down and said okay time to do a privilege exercise let's write out you know where you are on the power prism because that can create situations where students have warped views of themselves especially if they're young and I don't think it's appropriate because of the emotional impact it can have on phone people are actually being sat down being like if you're a white you're an oppressor and you're bad that is not okay that is not CRT that is not critical race Theory and that is not culturally responsive teaching so it's not necessarily being blatantly said but it's being implied over and over again okay there is definitely a way to teach CRT without it putting anybody down but it's like hey just so you all know if you're interested um there's different types of racism there is the idea of racism as you treat someone differently because they're a certain color and yeah you could be racist to a white person if you don't like them for being white now there's also systemic racism because we took a whole bunch of slaves from another country and brought them over here but with that said right there's different types of racism here and you can expose yourself to different ones at different times but you don't have to make anyone feel bad you just see the statistics the way they are you're not saying one person's good one person is bad you just go over the definitions how should we be teaching race well I don't think we should be teaching White Privilege in the classroom I'm teaching about race like if you're you know designing your ideal you know setting yeah I think how do you think race should be is that because you think it doesn't exist or because they can't handle it or like I think again when it comes to the privilege discussion like that's a great conversation for you to have with your child but I don't think that taxpayer funded hatred should be something that we allow in our schools okay bro real talk though like brother to brother teaching White Privilege does not inherently mean black people are less factually incorrect right so what is privilege is the idea of white people may have benefits that fall in a societal structure because they are white they have advantages not because such as for example if you send out a resume and you make one name a white name and the other name the classic what's the white man white John for example right I know black judge okay no hear me out hear me out let me think okay we did a study I didn't do this study but we did a study where basically it was sent out two different resumes they were the exact same okay right one was given a classic white name the other was given the name Jamal okay the white name got two times more callbacks and I disagree with what what you're saying the idea of white privilege right the idea that somebody that is white may be have an advantage does not inherently mean you are teaching a black individual they cannot accomplish great things that is completely separate so we're talking about fake biological science and social science we're not even in the same building at school right now well again in regards to these in regards to these like audit studies about like what is a white name it's not necessarily that the that the name itself is white is that the perceiver the person that is reading the resumes for some strange reason feels like when they see a white name that they are on their team or that there are positive stereotypes associated with people being white that's that's what we're talking about when we talk about white privilege is that okay if Oprah goes into a store people might not assume that she can afford the things in that store because she's a black woman even though she is Oprah but if someone was white and goes into the same story some people because of their own race official stereotypes might believe that they can afford it and so that's what we're talking about when we're talking about white privileges the sort of systemic benefits that you get from society now I want to add though what you're describing though as discrimination but to call it privilege when the reality is let's say you take the white person who would be considered white trash you would get the same result from them so I don't think you can necessarily assume that that's because of race and definitely can't call it systemic because of personal decision to be discriminatory should it be taught to our children right should it be and should we be telling black kids that you're going to get discriminated against because of the color of their skin with loans with redlining blah blah there is a way to teach culturally responsive teaching without being narrow-minded but it's hard but just because it's hard doesn't mean we shouldn't do it even if you talk about the systems in place that priority that you know privilege different groups at different times in different spaces I'm not saying that when you teach CRT when you teach about the history of this country that has privileged certain groups and not privileged black people I think it's an important to acknowledge that black people have persevered throughout that there's so much excellence and like I think that you do all kids a disservice when you say okay the history of black people in this country or the history of women in this country is that they were oppressed the whole time and they weren't resisting and then the Civil War happens and you know the slaves are freed and the and the black people just stopped resisting you know economic Injustice until the civil rights movement that is not the case of history in this country and so I feel like it's very important if you're teaching about you know race in this country it's about resistance it's about resistance to the power structure that suggests that some people deserve to get more if they work hard than another group of people if they work the same level and not just resistance but resilience you mentioned history and you know a lot of you are Educators I'm just curious what do you think should or shouldn't be taught you know when it comes to U.S history in the K-12 environment so I think there's this it's just this really unbalanced way that they're teaching it right now especially the ones that are proponents of CRT that's creating this narrative that it's all white people to blame when there was so many people involved in the transatlantic slave trade the British were actually the ones that stopped it and used their own resources to stop the slave trading ships from continuing they went to Africa to stop them hey stop bringing them to the coast because we're not buying them anymore and so this idea that I just feel bad for our children because they're not being taught in a perspective that is holistic basically and even to this day there are slaves in Libya hell captive by black people so this is not a white and black issue but even with that said I think leaving the public school system me even my peers I mean when we talk about this we left with the idea that black history is slavery and Jim Crow and we're rarely talking about the Reconstruction Era the amount of senators and politicians slavery it was just so many things that we did after slavery that we're being told we can't do today somehow that is just asinine there's no concern America was saying don't teach slavery in the classrooms but if you're going to talk about slavery to his point let's talk about Madame CJ Walker let's talk about George Washington Carver let's talk about all these black people who have done some really incredible things that in spite of quote-unquote systemic racism and all these things have achieved let's talk about Barack Obama let's talk about Kamala Harris why is every like conversation that we have to have about black people in the classroom about us being in Chains downtrodden having no hope that's a problem and Black History Month like like it's it's American history let's talk about that too like that those are important inspirational stories that are not taught in the classroom do you think that the like fight against CRT is hurting the like efforts for more like diversity and inclusion I don't want diversity or an inclusion I mean we already have that what I mean by that is like you said you want more like black stories of Hope and success and like all of that that's what I mean but that's unfortunately now with CRT that's actually exactly what CRT is I think what's really clear is there's a lot of big opinions on education you know across the Spectrum and really thankful to all of you for sharing you know your perspectives where you're coming from some of you said it wasn't like this when you were kids 20 years ago school was really different maybe you couldn't even imagine having some of these conversations so just want to pose the question to you and where do we go from here I believe that we have to recontextualize the way that we approach education as a society and specifically how we've kind of started to use education as a political tool at its core education serves Society it needs to be a collaborative effort because if education serves Society Society should be investing in education we as adults have a lot of work to do and it's both at kitchen tables and school boards and and forums like this obviously literacy is a part of that and I think there are other parts of that too but the only way that we can move forward is If instead of just talking about what do we talk to kids about I think we have to first get better about how do we talk to each other about this I think we have to re-center education about actually preparing young people for the real world and acknowledging the fact that we're not going to have a one-size-fits-all approach that works for every student Across America uh we have no room and no time frankly to teach all these divisive things because we have Urban literacy rates that are down in the dumps when those kids learn how to read then we can talk about gender Theory CRT but until we have children who are proficient and above a third grade reading level and a majority of those kids and cities like Chicago and Detroit we don't need to be even having a conversation about whether or not students should be learning about privilege in schools the number one policy thing that I come back to that we must do to improve K-12 education is to put in school choice at a universal level it's far too overdue it will incentivize the public schools to fix a lot of the problems that they have it'll put the power back into the parent to get their child in education that best meets their needs and I do think that if we're going to build the best generation of young people then we should start with teaching them tolerance kindness and active listening before we get into uh racial privilege theory gender privilege Theory Etc I think that it's so important to get back to critical thinking and understanding that the way that we raise the next generation is also you know not necessarily staying fixed ourselves I think I think you were saying that you know your wife is learning with the kids and if we continue to learn about hey how do we do this better for ourselves how do we treat each other better the more that we do that the better that we will be able to collaborate with people we disagree with the better that we'll be able to make a curriculum that actually does you know speak about the Excellence that you're able to do if you you know continue to challenge yourself and strive and push forward on this panel a really huge set of diverse opinions there wasn't really a bad guy it was we all wanted the same thing at the end we just had different ways to get there so I just think the collaboration is really what I'm taking away because you can collaborate with anyone I think we need to make sacrifices for our children's future to and prioritize them a bit more today aside from that if you choose a public school route I'm all for the collaborative effort but what that needs to look like is parents showing up to the PTA meetings showing up to the school board meetings knowing and being inside the classroom and being actively involved regardless of which route you take I think we've put too much faith into the education of our children in public education when we should be doing more of that ourselves and we need to make sure that we put more power into the parents and Empower them to take control of their child's education we just need to stop burning down the house I truly believe that we can save public Ed if we stop arguing with each other and start pouring more resources and like really buckling down to save this thing that really in turn saves us as a society we can do it we just need to stop chasing all of these like boogeymans that we are just like kind of seeing in the media just to polarize everybody and make everybody so angry like we need to stop that and like save what we have because what we have can be great and we need it okay I think that will do it for us thank you all so much for taking your time and for sharing your opinions and being so respectful of each other I really appreciate the conversation thank you you did it the awards for best panel and then we get our picture taken action oh my gosh that was amazing I learned something on the education panel today I live in somewhat of an echo chamber so to be able to break free from that to learn from new people learn from New Perspectives was really honestly a great experience critical theory should not replace critical thinking there is a panelist who believes that you know there is a place for critical race Theory within our schools I I don't believe that without for the future of education is we have parents more involved with their children's education and future is like when someone's at the point you disagree with but you can't quite easily yeah like yeah I would totally trust my future kids and my current students with you see I no you don't have to say anything you don't have to say the same thing

Channel: VICE

Views: 1,081,414

Keywords: documentary, documentaries, docs, interview, culture, lifestyle, world, exclusive, independent, underground, videos, journalism, vice guide, vice.com, vice, vice magazine, vice mag, vice videos, film, short films, movies, education, vice debates, vice world news, vwn, debating, education american, american education system, history of education in america, home schooling vs, homeschooling vs public schooling, homeschooling vs private school, homeschooling vs school, private school, public school

Id: 2KoRhC6wVsI

Length: 43min 17sec (2597 seconds)

Published: Wed Feb 22 2023

Reddit Comments

[u/ThePopeofHell]

Everyone I know who homeschools their kids is/was a complete fuck up. They have a fractured view of the way the education system works, they were never homeschooled themselves, they have no business teaching anyone anything and they rarely actually sit down and teach their kids. I have a family member who was big on homeschooling before completely abandoning his kids and moving to a state that doesn’t hunt you down for child support.

There was a family near me who homeschooled their kids who were my age. They had zero social skills and were encouraged to stay home rather than play outside with the neighborhood kids. I know all of this is anecdotal but there’s something really bizarre around the whole homeschool movement.

[u/exploooooosions]

I'm really interested but I worry that I won't find the time. After someone watches can you post a summary?

[u/quietthomas]

So many veiled claims of leftwing totalitarianism that turn out to be "Oh, that's in one school in California" or "oh - they don't call it CRT and it's not CRT.".... right wingers have a REALLY low opinion of teachers because of one reason and one reason only - it's not because of the teachers or anything that's actually happening on system wide basis - it's purely because of the Right Wing propaganda being consumed by one side of politics. This is connected to a further issue of Think Tanks run by billionaires, to distract the population from their own fiscal and social responsibilities... and it's working. These controversies are manufactured so that Koch oil, those who fund the Heritage Foundation, and all the others can stay out of the spotlight and continue to avoid paying taxes or living up to their social and national responsibilities. The culture war, is a tool of billionaires. Part of the Wealth Defense industry.