Latino Conservatives Debate Liberals on the Wall, Amnesty, and Political Polarization (Part 2/2)

raise your hand if you are for the wall [Music] one of you that raised your hands for the wild wife why are you poor the law every single year through the southern boater there's like sixteen thousand kids that are brought through the illegal ports of entry for trafficking purposes labor and sex slavery which I think it's a terrible crime that we should all get behind and also women so so that is what I main reasons on for the wall it's going to secure our borders is going to prevent people from doing these terrible crimes and obviously it's national security as well anyone that's against the wall does anyone want to respond human trafficking is done right here in Miami is done all over the place a war didn't start it or won't stop it either also there are people being raped and killed and having the same type of exploitation who are in these ice detention camps and children are being killed and we don't even know what's happening to them so I mean if you're gonna build the wall maybe build it around some other areas maybe build it around the White House so that people stop getting killed like that uh what I will say is the wasn't practical number wonder certain areas in the country where the wall just like it's just impractical I honestly thought the wall was like a metaphor to just tougher immigration policies which whatever but they really wanted literal it's impractical in some parts of the country and number two there is cutting through a lot of reservations we're talking about Indian land that the government does not own and they want to cut through that land those are sovereign nations that they're gonna be invalidating just for some law that again is impractical in many other areas of country and number three a walls not gonna stop us we're gonna be migrating here regardless I I just want to address the real yeah the whole thing you said about Mexicans being rapists bringing jugs first of all this is this is true this is a statement of fact I mean Mexicans do bring drugs into this country legally Mexicans do come in here commit murders commit crimes and I don't think it's appropriate to paint with a wide brush all Mexicans coming to this country are doing that because my mom crossed the border to this country twice illegally I have plenty of family who has done that and they've come here and done good things my mom came here and her first job was that talk about cutting tomatoes and that that might be funny but that's that's a fact so you know you it's not a it's not appropriate for jump to paint every Mexican coming here as a murderer or a drug dealer but the fact is is that a lot of them are and in my point of view let's say we let it at 50 Mexican Mexicans to this country 49 of them are good good working citizens who want to contribute if the one of them kills my daughter I don't want any of them in the country speaking of your family that went through through this very similar process that I'm about to say a couple of days ago Donald Trump was in the border he was there and he said our country's full we cannot take you anymore Australia border for he was referring to the hundreds and hundreds of Central American migrants many of whom are fleeing violence who are here to request asylum so raise your hand and actually let's start by you do you believe that the specific community of Central American asylum seekers deserve to come into the United States well if you look at the history of asylum it's space it's based on a religious persecution things of that nature now you know we're painting or styling with a broader brush and where if there's violence in your home country you deserve to deserve to get a yes I know that so you deserve to get asylum and well I don't I don't know if that if that should be the case if we should just accept anyone from everything from everywhere just because they're escaping a bad situation I don't think that that automatically grants your Asylum first would you argue that your mom could be one of those people I would absolutely argue that my mom under different circumstances could have been one of those people so it is a very touchy situation me being a Mexican American and noting that my mom has become successful and it is hard but at the same time we have a problem already with poverty in this country we have a problem with veterans who aren't getting the care that they need after after literally getting blown up for it the right for us to be here right now and have this discussion and I think before we start taking in everyone else and their problems we need to address the problems that we have in this country now and you own that wants to respond to him my issue is that some of these ideas why they might have some aspects set in reality it creates a sort of hysteria and it creates a sort of anti-immigrant sentiment where my brother who was born here people always tell him go back to his country and to think about ice and some of the bills that are going on right now are not just you know there supporting criminals there are mothers there are families actual families that are being welcomed into this illegal it's okay there there it is it is separating families it's very divisive why why didn't he have such sentiments against his own wives he seems to love immigrants in his bedroom so I don't I don't understand not to be vulgar what I'm saying is that just keeping it real so I've been trying to talk for a while so like I want to talk about your last comment like Oh Trump said these things do you consider this races that makes racism seem rhetorical I guess if it's a rhetorical device instead of it being like a systemic issue that's actively destroying lives like family separation so like for people to decide well is this races just by the sound of it is kind of silly to me in the fact cuz the fact that separating a family is racism slavery was racism and it it worked off NATO slavery separating these families at the border is slavery and talking about these families that are coming over why are they coming over we talked about ms-13 you called them rapists gangbangers so on and so on but those are American gangs they're created in a very particular form of cárcel racism and they were deported back to these countries and these and they weren't even from there they were raised here they develop these types of habits in order to exist within a racialized American economy they're also in those countries so because they got deported there by the US you created that problem and also for the fact that I didn't create that problem cannot talk about America I'm talking on America my problem no that's that's fine you you were talking about the American position all day so I created a merit I used it as a rhetorical device for the American position that deported these people let's talk about the fact that you guys brought up the family and separation is racist I have a big problem when they're using children at the border to get into this country that is not their children so either there's DNA test or we're gonna have to separate you to make sure that that child belongs to that parent but there's this thing called human nature I feel like also gain that weight so your uses with a key boss is just insulting for sure in your face like about the 11 million undocumented immigrants that are here what is the first thing that comes to mind when I say that let's go around I think we should give them citizenship and that might surprise you guys but I do think there are they're already here they've been here for a while they're in our schools they're there in our restaurants the you know they're there every they're everywhere they're part of us they should be given citizenship I think I agree with him that a lot of them that have been here maybe they should get amnesty I think you know they've been here for so long they're pretty much American by this point but there are some that they don't represent American values and they shouldn't be here what exactly are American values Constitution the life liberty and pretty very happy in the core American how that American passport I'm a citizen not important you're cutting around here a lot of things to like just amnesty you know it's a snap of the finger I mean a lot of them you know they're criminals I think they got to be reported a lot of them you know their families and you know they've earned their their chance I almost find it disgusting that people are we're really talking about how to legitimize like the life of a human being thank you like what so they should be given citizen citizenship because of this right I think people should be granted human dignity period no matter if you're a Palestinian baby if you're an American baby regardless give them their humanity there's a report out there that says that it's gonna take almost two years so identify the thousands of families that were separated at the border who thinks it was immoral to separate families at the border I am four people and I feel like the things the hate the stereotype it's affecting real human beings and causing people not to see people as people but as objects as this thing with an emotion attached to it and that level of discrimination is causing families to be separated people are losing their lives they are dying and that is the issue I have with you anyone that does not see it in moral what do you have to say I mean I just want to say the only reason I don't see it as Memorial is just because like you or me or any of us here were to commit a crime here in America are we would be separated from our family we'd go to jail like it's the same thing that would happen to anybody else who committed a crime in America and crossing the border illegally is committing a crime I would also like to say that their nation are some sort of demeanor you can't just assume that these people are families you need to validate these things you can't just take it as face oh this is your mother fine because they'd spend documented that that's not the case that that the Coyotes are using children and as cover saying that their their dad for protection you need to validate these things you can't just take someone's words and use advocate devil's advocate your imagine if that was your mother with you and but what's the feel would you feel okay of your mother and you were separated no I would be sad absolutely I didn't I never said that separating the families isn't isn't horrible because it is horrible and it is saddening and just look at the images of the conditions that stopped it is sad but at the same time just because something is sad is just because it's unfortunate doesn't mean that you can't have you need to have some sort of way to validate these things you can't just take someone's words and say okay this is my father okay good to go the people who are talking about this are unaffected by this the people that this is happening to our Central American indigenous communities the Claudia Gomez was a man by a woman or a little girl really who got shot at the border there are families being separate these are indigenous children and this is literally replicating the Indian Removal Act is this this not only displacing digis communities from their pueblos but also separating them from their families which is the history of the United States and this is literally a continuing to yesterday doing out of force not my way back home I came here my cousin stayed there and guess what happened at 18 he died that is the reality that we're escaping and unfortunately these gangs these a instability of our countries often come from the United States going to our communities and trying to start a business there by displacing us you that was the past is a few [Applause] still going on I fear lead you have more invested yourself in another country than here you cares more about another because this year this is my problem you know these are borders these are man-made borders I don't care I care about people that I know I know I know right now in Colombia in Colombia you we don't want you more there's a million Venezuela's that are in Colombia yes you care so much about American people congratulations I'm not like that I'm sorry I I do think I'm a community back home you assimilate so American and that is back again this is coming from a point of view it's separatism little look you guys are acting like as if we're not all human sorry humanity is being stripped they're being dehydrated they're being sponsored me ask you this there's there's many Venezuelans know that that are coming to Miami and in South Florida in your eyes is there any difference between some of the Central American families that are at the border and some of the Venezuelan that are trying to come I mean yeah there's a lot there's a lot of differences one of them is the majority of the majority but there's a very large majority of Venezuelans here who have a lot of money some of them are even Chavistas some of them or you know they they're kind of like took their money came here they have businesses so in terms of like humanity know they're all humans but the majority of the poor Venezuelans are going to countries like Peru countries that Colombian countries like Brazil they're rich ones are all here right but there is I mean we do know factually right that there are many Venezuelans that are trying to leave them a loot of government and that are trying to seek asylum here so my question is for everyone do they deserve the same opportunity to seek asylum than a Central American family right I feel everybody is the same everybody has that what people don't understand is there is laws and regulations to claim asylum there's about five different don't quote me Reina but there's about five different options of political reasons if you're being prosecuted for political reasons I have a friend that claimed asylum that way if for race for I mean like relationship persecution yeah exactly it's not just because your town was affected by some sort of a gang and now you're poor and then so you come up it's not like that it's like legitimate reasons you have to verify paperwork to be to claim asylum when you think of this American dream right Oh God what type of American dream it may not exist and you tell me that it may not exist right but when you do think of this idea of the American dream what what does that look like for the latinized community in my opinion the American dream is opportunity and even though our country is not perfect I think there's more opportunity here to succeed than any other country in the world and I think I can't argue Inc sorry I didn't mean to cry sorry I think that the American dream what essentially means is people from the global South coming here and then obtaining the privilege to ignore the United States involvement in the global cells what does that look like for you to me as he said the dream is opportunity it is to come here and make money it is to have my own business it is to succeed I don't necessarily think education means success I have many friends and many people that I know are millionaires and didn't go to school didn't finish the work college dropouts and I actually agree with you and we talked about this earlier about the pharmaceutical industry and how anti big farm I am and even though we may have our disagreements most of us just want a reboot in all establishments and this means our health care these like pharmaceuticals it means education it means everything else but what I don't want is to give the government more power because they're already messing everything up people yeah the less the less government reliance the better walk into a DMV see how that's run walk into a small business do that's right government out of the way I promise you things will take care of themselves the more the more the government puts their hands and everything the more things get ruined okay roads of yummy for me the biggest issue that has happened with the chains of government is how people relate to each other I think a lot of respect has been lost and policy aside which it's really important I think I'd look for a day when people can come together and disagree but still respect each other our country has become so so divided that you can't even sit down it's what what what I will say is you know we can we can agree to disagree depending on the issue but if I meet someone and they say I want your parents deported I'm not gonna be their friend I'm not gonna be like oh I agree to disagree with you that affects my life personally I have to drop out of school for two years because of Trump's administration would you ever be friends with any of the people that voted for Trump here no I was really unfortunate that's a turd person that's really sad personally speaking if any of them want to deport my families if that really is their opinion then I'm not gonna be their family okay what do you have to say to that I look at everybody as an individual here and I base you on your character a lot of these people have very strong character I don't judge them off of their political views or how they feel about what they think the world is doing and imperialism all this stuff like I don't I don't really like I just feel like that's sad that we can't all walk away from here and go to one of these really nice bars here in Wynwood and have a drinks not that it's not that I have any hatred to anyone that had never would have or trumpet to me it's it's again like it's affecting at people's in their everyday life so if you have an opinion that I felt like can hurt me can hurt someone that I love I'm not gonna sit down and have a casual drink with you that just doesn't make any sense to me but I can see the pain that that causes and yeah because I'm a people person I love people but another day so so okay yeah that's why we're here right because so maybe there is no common ground maybe there is but misunderstood I don't want people to feel like you know anything goes but I do feel that sometimes this is it's a communication thing and you might not understand my point today but if I can have more conversation with you if we could build more bridges together maybe over time you could see my point or maybe over time you could change your mind or maybe some aspects of me I'm not so rigid about everything that I and Phil for those of you that can vote that have the privilege of voting when you go to the ballot box what's the most important issue that you're gonna be voting on we're talking about policies and politics all right we get to talk about it in this air-conditioned for no this is a pretty this is an extreme people are literally dying right now like that is a fact people are dying right die every day all right my god you are exhausting every day I also don't feel like politics was necessarily ever constructed for the people I'm talking about that down there you know down-home grassroots people it is an elite structure within itself when you elect the leaders of whatever things so if we look strictly to politicians who I paid to do what they do and shake hands to do what they do we're gonna be completely lost so will you raise your hand if you're not gonna vote in 2020 I'm not I'm voting no everyone plans everyone that can vote plans I'm voting for the ones of you that did vote for Donald Trump in 2016 will you'll be voting for him again in 2020 absolutely yes yes the Democrats are not only producing anybody that would capture my vote why are you better than of my value I mean you're talking about we have been talking about politics and you know what what will stand up to you on a ballot and you know there's been a this lately you have politicians like Bernie Sanders aoc who won't want to give people they wants to have more government programs they want to hand out more things I don't think it's right to keep people dependent on the government I think that you don't want the less amount of people dependent on the government for anything is a good thing that's why overall I'm conservative that's why I will be voting for Donald Trump I want people to be lifted up on their own instead of you having to rely on the government for a job for a place to live for welfare but you want talking about hand now let's talk about these corporate handouts you were anti-establishment really think about what corporate establishments are to the foundation of America for things the less free they are if they're dependent on the government for something else that gives them less liberty that gives them less choice that lives to give people the right to live right right you're working through college so then you can get a better job so then you can live a better life like that is life I had it that's how you are socially responsible economically responsible like you have to work jobs now and go to college so that you do you think that say something and then we're gonna start wrapping it up go ahead United States still has colonies to this day for Rico Guam Virgin Islands okay in Puerto Rico the body can people there are still under colonialism and every product that goes pro Rico has to touch American soil first and then Puerto Rico and that affects the people that means the products there are twice as much three times as much etc so when we talk about rights at the United States or our Americans what Americans because Puerto Ricans are on Mary Carol so like forty person make forty percent of population psyche on welfare never voted to be independent so why don't they just be independent because you just because should you have to because directs themselves from the United States have had movements for independence those people Oscar Lopez the longest American political prisoner was incarcerated for 36 years these people people are constantly demanding to be free and they're constantly being killed and arrested and incarcerated I'm sorry for cutting you off we could literally do this for 25 hours in but again going back to 2020 what are the policies that you want to see you're not seeing give people a living wage I'm graduating next year and my degree is in education and even as a person coming from the education around I do not believe that education is the way out give people a living wage to me I want to see that I don't want that to be huge mass incarceration that needs to stop little so we I mean what are we so much like not a business owner to try to demand what nothing business owner you in constipation anyone else what are policies that you want to see that are not happening and just you can just start spending on the military absolutely speeding everywhere where Latin accent mean to be running next me or any of my friends who are all that and I've never used this term Latin X before I really don't like the term and the interesting thing about it is the only time you become Latin or lat X is when you're outside of your country if that makes sense cuz when you are where you are you are you are whatever you are wearing yeah I mean identifies enough for latina to me I didn't really I felt separated from I guess the Latin ex community because I wasn't latin enough or whatever because that ones I started to identify with my blackness I didn't know that the two things can be combined I felt like it had to be separate I had no choice till then I've got an education figured out these things you know called the truth and realize that if you know that it's both inclusive so I'm gonna understand why they chose Latin eggs because you know people don't like to be calling Spanish because it's from the Spanish conquistadors and all that stuff but I identify persons in Africa thenar not so much Lennox I didn't even know that word existed until now I don't even think it's a word at all I feel like it's a way for people to kind of you know not offend I mean I might not know the exact origin but I feel like it's a way for people to not use the gender pronouns in Spanish like oh you can't see Latino or latina because we don't really know who they are you know we don't know how they identify themselves and I mean we've been using you know Hispanic people have been using that word for centuries such a long time and for all of a sudden you know have somebody tell me how I can talk or change the way for me to talk it's you know it can be a little insulting Latino Hispanic whatever these words were giving them to us by different people those words actually we didn't use for centuries I don't know or they got that information it's relatively new terms Latin X to me doesn't really make sense I'm gonna be honest with you personally if I go back home to my abuela and I say oh were Latinos were Latinos whatever they're gonna she's gonna be like oh like what what is that what is that yeah I mean and I would say that Lion X instead of saying Latin is forceful it makes people think it is intentional it is something that is critiquing this the current status quo well on that note and thank you so much for this discussion I know I got heated and I know that at the end of the day we still may disagree on many things we may now agree a little bit more but more than anything I'm grateful for you everyone here is very smart and and I yeah I'm just thank you very much for this for this discussion giving us the opportunity [Music]

Channel: VICE

Views: 1,398,137

Keywords: Spanish, immigration, mexican, Latina, Latino, illegal immigration, Donald Trump, hispanic, border wall, latinx, paola ramos, 2020 election, vice, journalism, documentary, videos, culture, interview, film, movies, underground, vice videos, lifestyle, independent, vice guide, exclusive, vice mag, vice magazine, vice.com, world, documentaries, short films, docs, yt:cc=on, vice miami, venezuela, mexico, united states, liberals vs conservatives, democrats vs republicans, latin, wall

Id: fyymEC8FQHU

Length: 24min 6sec (1446 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 14 2019