Micah Wilder Interview (uncut) Part 1

well why don't we just start from the beginning and describe describe your LDS experience what what kind of LDS person where he cut how you what it meant to you alright I I was born and raised in the LDS Church my parents actually converted to the church when they were newly married and you know one of the things about our family is it you know we were always incredibly strong and faithful in in the LDS Church and we always went to church on Sunday we were always active you know we always prayed together we always read the scriptures together and and it was just you know it was just a part of our daily lives you know was being members of the Mormon Church and that's just that's who we were my my parents always held leadership positions in the church my mother was actually a professor of Brigham Young University for a number of years and you know the Mormon Church is our life and personally I you know I felt like I always had a testimony even from the time I was I was a little kid I I felt like you know the church was true and that's just I didn't know any different I didn't know any better it's just you know the LDS Church was was the only way and and that was that was my life that was our lives and my siblings were faithful and it's just something we believed and grew up believing together now as a child describe what was your how did you know it was true what was your I mean was it true simply because you knew nothing else or was it true because you had some kind of personal witness or testimony or I guess when I was a kid it was true because you know my parents said it was true and because that's what I was taught at church you know when you're a young child and and the people that you love the most in your life you trust them you know and my parents taught me that that the LDS Church was right that the earliest gospel was was the the true way and so you know I believe that but as as I grew up and became a teenager and really I guess you could say started thinking for myself I did you know start searching you know kind of you hear about the story of Joseph Smith and all the searching he did and I'd say even around the time I was 14 or so is really when I kind of began my personal quest to say okay you know now I want a personal testimony of the LDS Church of the gospel Joseph Smith the Book of Mormon and I really you know kind of entered a level of spirituality that I had never had before in my life and I really started reading the Book of Mormon I started you know taking church more seriously I haven't started watching General Conference and and you know really praying to God and asking him if you know it was all true and I felt like I'd received the answer that it was you know I felt in my heart that God was telling me yes you know this person is a prophet you know the Book of Mormon is true but I think part of the problem was that the only answer that I was looking for was yes the best the only answer I expected you know because I just I couldn't believe or accept that anything that I had been taught growing up could be wrong and so when I prayed for that answer I just I almost gave it to myself because that's that's all I knew and I wanted it to be true so yeah I hear from different people from LDS backgrounds to what their what their testimony is like I mean you talked about the burning embers over a little more what did you experience that as a as a young person I would say you know I really did experience you know what what the Mormons described is that burning in the bosom and a true testimony I mean I can honestly recall times when I got on my knees and I you know prayed to God asking him if things were true and I would just break out in tears you know or if I was reading The Book of Mormon or or you know reading the first vision of Joseph Smith you know I just I felt so passionately but was so emotional to me I guess is the best word I can describe and I used to watch General Conference and just you know just break down in tears because I was so emotional about it and that's really the kind of Mormon that I was so you know I wasn't kind of your everyday average okay you know the church is true yeah you know I like it it's what I believe I mean I was so passionate that I I made the church you know my life you know I embedded every piece of that testimony so deep in my heart and and just made that you know everything that I wanted to be I mean there there was even a time in my life when I wanted to be a seminary teacher for profession you know that's because I wanted to teach the gospel because I just believe with all my heart that it was true and you know and what they taught was that witness came through the Holy Spirit and that witness came through you know these feelings from asking God and I asked God and I got the feelings and and I I couldn't deny that and so that was that was my testimony so what cause of these did you really like the most of it your life is in Algiers well there's a lot of things about you know being LDS that really kind of captured my attention and made me you know so strong in the faith and one of them was you know the strength of families you know the emphasis they put on you know kind of unity of families and families can be together and that type of thing because I I really did have a strong relationship with my family and I still do to this day but you know with my siblings with my parents you know just to kind of share that that relationship of God you know with God together saying okay we're in the true church together you know I I really enjoyed everything about it I mean I I I enjoyed you know the idea that that God spoke to this one man and that he was my prophet and that you know as long as I was following what he was saying that I knew that you know I was doing the right thing you know I you know I like the idea of having priesthood authority you know and that if I could submit myself to that authority and basically obey my leaders that I knew that really no matter what else was going on that I I was okay you know but the problem was it you know it wasn't really about my heart it was about you know it was about my flesh it was about what I was showing people on the outside and you know these physical Commandments I was following it actually enjoyed kind of the restrictions of being a Mormon and I know that sounds strange but I enjoyed it because it was a way for me to measure my my spirituality with God you know that I could say okay and I have this list of Commandments I have this list of things that that I need to do and and these things I need to do to obey God and if I do them then I know that I'm good in God standings you know because if not there was no way to for me to measure my spirituality or I guess that you know measure my righteousness but I knew okay following the standards of the church and therefore you know I'm a righteous person and God loves me and I knew I could always hold myself to that standard so okay well what what were some of the outward things that you were able to kind of display to the world around you um I guess you know there's a lot of different things kind of you know growing up in the LDS Church where they focus on on the outward appearance and one of those things is simply the way you dress when you go to church on Sunday you know you wear a white shirt you know you have a tie you're clean-shaven you know your hair is crop you know you you're dressed nice and you know you're showing respect and honor to God you know and it's just if you can kind of fool people and say okay you know I'm clean on the outside nobody really knows where your heart is and sometimes I'm guilty of even it didn't matter where my heart was on some day as long as I you know dressed nicely you know I could I could you know bless the sacrament or pass the sacrament and and that you know that that's one of the things and just you know just your activity in the church you know going to seminary going to your Sunday meetings going to you know your Tuesday night young men and young woman's and just showing up and being there and kind of showing everybody hey you know I'm I'm active I'm righteous you know I'm holy I'm doing these things because you know because I'm a good person and when people see that it's like wow you know look at look at Micah look at you know look at how how clean dressed he is look at you know how active he is in his meetings look at you know the way he prays look at the way he reads his scriptures and all that stuff and and unfortunately it kind of built up this wall of pride within myself where where you start to be more worried about what other people think of you and how they they look at you then what God thinks you because you start forgetting about hey God is looking at my heart he's not looking at the things that I do he's looking at the reason why I'm doing them and I think a lot of people get caught in that trap and I got caught on that trap you know where I would do things to be seen by men a lot like Jesus scribes the Pharisees doing instead of doing things to be seen by God and that was one of the big differences of when I became a Christian was I knew that it was all about my heart and it didn't matter what people could see of what I was doing I knew that God was looking at my heart and every little thing I did regardless of who knew about it I knew that God he only cared about where my heart was in terms of the heart issues defined as an LDS person that you were kind of blinded or dead or in some ways to even examining your heart or was there kind of a sense that you were aware of sort of the discrepancy between what you appeared on the outside and what you knew was going on on the inside well it was for me it was a battle kind of that battle between spirit and flesh because I got to a point in my life when I was a teenager where I had and I say this word kind of carefully but I had kind of fooled you know the Mormon Church and even my parents and my family my church leaders into believing that I was a very pure and righteous person and I think at some point everybody does that but in reality you know there's not a lot of really pure righteous teenagers you know there's so many things you know drawing you in different directions but I knew I knew the things that I was doing when nobody was looking I knew the things I was thinking I knew you know where my heart was in certain circumstances and I knew the facade I was putting on on the outside to make people believe and think you know that I was something that I wasn't and it's not to say that I was some terrible horrible sinner but the reality is everybody is you know nobody is righteous nobody's perfect and so you know everybody sins everybody sins in their heart every single day and that's not something that that you can get around but you know I didn't want people to think that I didn't want people to believe that I wanted people to think that you know I was genuinely a perfect person and so it was it was always a battle you know of you know well should I tell my bishop you know what's going on really or should I just continue you know because technically I'm not really breaking any rules but maybe I had this bad thought inside my heart you know Jesus said that's adultery you so so what do I do about that well you know I didn't break any rules you know should I tell my bishop should I not you know what is he going to think if I tell him this and a lot of times like I lost that battle I think a lot of people do where they're more worried about what their leaders and their peers and their family are going to think about them that they you know just just dress themselves up you know as whited Sepulcher you know but but inside a lot of times I was full of dead man's bones was that kind of a regular internal struggle that you were conscious of I mean I think some people kind of didn't themselves to the rival were you aware of that I would say that I was conscious of that struggle you know I was very conscious of you know who I was really and what I appeared to be and again I say that not that I was a big hypocrite but but again everybody you know everybody is a hypocrite if you're trying to appear righteous and I was trying to appear righteous and so I did get to the point when I basically had to to you know kind of come to grips with reality and say okay I need to make a choice now and why you're going to continue to live a lie or am I really going to try to change my heart and and to be honest you know long before I became a Christian I I did come to the understanding that I needed to change my heart on the inside and and by doing that it would change the things I did on the outside and I wouldn't have to try to appear righteous like it actually try to be a good person you know by making myself clean on the inside and that I guess I kind of prepared me for my eventual leap into Christianity so and as you tried to make yourself pure on the inside how how did that go maybe for now in Christ ah I mean it it was it was different in different ways because I think I even though you know I didn't understand the Jesus of the Bible I thought you know because I was sincerely seeking who I believed to be God who I believed to be my Savior that the in a way you know he was in me and in a way he did cleanse me but yeah I mean I guess one of the hard realities of being a Mormon is accepting that that you're not perfect and you're never going to be and that was one of the hardest battles I had to face was you know I would just try sir I'd say okay God I'm going to be perfect now you know I'm I just I love you I'm going to follow you I'm going to commit myself to you and and then I would slip up and then it would be it would honestly I would get so depressed and and just I mean it there were some times you know even in high school well I just get so depressed I didn't want to live because I couldn't hold myself up to the standard that I thought I should be living you know because I wasn't perfect because I kept sinning over and over and over knowing that it was wrong and just thinking oh you know God why you know why can't I overcome this and and again it was all done without that understanding of hey you're gonna sin that's what Jesus is for you know that's why he died for you because he knew you can do it yourself he knew you weren't going to be perfect and no matter you know what standard you hold yourself to you're going to slip and fall every single time you know but Jesus Christ died so that he could raise us up you know with him and be in a place that we could never get ourselves to and that was kind of the big Epiphany things that when I became a Christian was understanding hey I'm still gonna stand and I still say and I'm still a sinner everyday you know but but Jesus died for me and and I'm his disciple I'm going to do the best I can to follow him knowing that I'm going to slip and fall but knowing that that Jesus Christ is going to pick me up and carry me you know the rest of the way and it's just that's an amazing amazing feeling that's awesome that's great let's start taking a taking a look at the process okay you know you and this might be a good time to kind of talk about going on your mission right and what what would kind of though what were the things you were looking for riding mission right what were the things that began to draw you to Jesus right and sort of the first cracks okay I'm actually going to back up just a little bit because one in a lot of spirit and flesh one of the things I did was I was a full time temple worker before my mission and that was kind of I think that's an interesting thing for people to know so maybe I'll just just talk about that for a second and then lead that into the mission as I started preparing for a mission you know I I was trying to to make myself worthy to go on a mission because that's what you have to do I mean you have to you have to put yourself in a position where you are you know you are morally worthy to go and to serve God and so that means you have to make yourself clean and righteous and pure and holy and all these things you know that your leaders tell you have to do and one of the kind of interesting things is is when I was in high school I actually used to go to the temple every morning at like 5 o'clock 5:30 to do baptisms for the dead and that was a way that I felt like I was making myself holy because I felt like man if I can be in the presence of God which is the only place I can truly be in his presence is in the temple you know then I'm gonna I'm going to really cleanse myself I'm going to make myself you know an incredibly righteous person and so I became almost an obsession where my friends and I would go to the temple every morning before high school and do these baptisms for the dead and in reality I was doing it for myself you know I was doing it so I could be closer to God and I felt like that was the only way for me to get closer to God was to go to Temple well after I graduate from high school and got ready to go on a mission when I was 19 one of the things is that that you get to go the temple and you get to go basically receive you know do certain ordinances that you've never been able to do before and I was actually given special permission by the church to go to the temple early when I was only 18 years old I haven't even received my mission call yet I was able to go to the temple and do these endowments and I remember the first time I went and I was just it was the most amazing experience for me because I was so deep into what I believed I mean it could have been a circus and I would have just you know bawled my eyes out and and so I I almost became totally obsessed with the temple and I started going every day and I'm going to I'm supposed and I'm at college I'm going to BYU at the time and I'm skipping my study time to go to the temple because I just I want to be close to God that was really a sincere desire in my heart was to be close to God and again the way I was taught and raised is I needed to go the temple in order to be in God's presence if for the first time in my life I can be in this you know in the direct presence of God and and that was just something I wanted more than anything I didn't care about school I just wanted to you know I wanted to be with God and it actually became such an obsession that I requested to the temple president if I could actually work in the temple become a full-time temple worker and and it was a very strange request because they had never had somebody that age I worked full-time at the temple before it 18 years old and and actually became the youngest full-time temple worker in the history of the modern the the modern church as far as I'm aware and what I was told by my church leaders at the time and so I after I finished my semester BYU I started working in the temple forty hours a week and that was full-time and I just felt like I was just basking in God's glory you know all day every day I could be there and I just felt like I was just becoming a spiritual giant all because you know this work I was doing in the temple and that was probably the biggest thing that really prepared me for my mission you know as like okay and I'm finally spiritually you know cure I'm finally righteous you know I'm worthy to go out and to teach the gospel and basically to to save people's souls and so when I was 19 years old I went on a mission and I came to Orlando Florida and I came out a very you know passionate strong almost slightly arrogant missionary you know because I was I was just just so passionate about bringing people into the Mormon Church I mean that's just where my heart was I wanted I truly believe that the LDS Church was the only way for people to be saved and so people had to join the church through baptism and performing you know these works in order to be saved that's honestly what I believed I believed it with all my heart and so when I saw somebody on the street I said that's a lost soul you know if they don't know the gospel like I know the gospel then then there's no hope for them and so that's really what motivated me as a missionary to go out there every day and to talk to every single person I saw on the knock on every single door and to really you know give my heart to them and say look this is the only way you know please I'm telling you I'm begging you you know give give us a chance let us let us teach you and it was such a heartbreaker when people rejected that message I mean I was sincerely heartbroken when people rejected it because I really thought okay you know they're losing their salvation especially you know these Christians that profess this faith in Jesus Christ you said you know that they already knew the Lord they had already you know confessed him they were already saved and I just ah you're so blind no you don't know what you're missing though the true restored gospel that's the message we have it's a message of salvation just break in there and ask it for the clarification now when you talk about your fear for their salvation what exactly does that mean well um what are they missing out on basically they're not you know according to the the LDS gospel they're not going to be able to live with God after this life you know which which is heaven you know which heaven to me is being with God so if you can't be with God then you're not in heaven and so you know I say they can't be saved it's that you know they can't be in the presence of God which which is what everybody wants you know so so they wouldn't have that opportunity if they didn't join the join the Mormon Church and and and perform you know these particular works and climb this ladder and and know that okay if I do all these works then I can be in the presence of God I can be exalted as the Mormons say you know after this life so there's no in the afterlife to attain the highest exaltation if you don't accept it in this life is that what you believed or pretty much yeah pretty much and I guess if you get in a technical doctrine you know there may be some okay you can you can climb the ladder but you know it's just when you see people I was happy I was happy as a Mormon and I can you know I'm I can sincerely say that and so I saw people who are miserable and said I have your answer this is it this is happiness the Mormon gospel the LDS gospel this is happiness you know and and I saw you know you see the state of the world and say you know this is the answer to everything and that's just what we were taught you know it's kind of the the brainwashing we're given in the in the MTC was was you know this is the most incredible message on earth and it's free you know which it's really not but that was clearly your motivation when you went on the mission it wasn't to look good it wasn't to fulfill some sort of no obligation oh I really wanted to share what that made you so happy with those two though I did I did and I think that's one of the things that really separated me even from a lot of my missionary peers there's a lot of people going you know you know to fulfill an obligation basically to fulfill your duty as a Mormon boy that when you turn 19 you need to go on a mission you know I mean some people are you know do it because of the pressure of their family some people do it because their dad promised to give them a car when they get home you know there's a lot of different things but but yeah I didn't feel like I needed to fulfill a duty I didn't feel like I you know needed to prove myself righteous you know at that point I I honestly once I was a missionary I did it for the sole purpose of saving lost souls because I believe that they were lost and I think that's what separated me in a lot of ways from from a lot of other missionaries and I would hope that you know every missionary that's there even though they may be deceived in their doctrine that they're there because they're genuinely trying to help people but I think that sincere desire in my heart is kind of what open the door you know for God to reach into me and well let's talk a little bit about that too because you said that you know from the very beginning from on you were truly one seeking a relationship with God yeah and so how do you do you think that make makes things I get you know you had a very powerful active relationship with the church right and and you were also seeking after God right there's kind of a difference either some Mormons who are more focused on the relationship of the church to the exclusion of a relationship with Christ that tends to blind them and because you you're bait I mean I realize that the process wasn't easy for you to come out of Mormonism into Christ but it seemed to go pretty seamlessly in the sense that right you you were really pursuing God right and so how maybe compare and contrast from people that you know how is that I don't know how to asking the question very well do you understand what I'm saying yeah yeah I think so I think so I think there are a lot of people who who do focus on the church above you know God and and the thing about me personally was that I got to the point where I couldn't I couldn't really distinguish the two and I think I think it's that way with a lot of people where I'm pursuing this relationship with god but God to me was the church so you know for me to get close to God was for me you know to fulfill my priesthood duties for me to you know be active in church you know for me to read the scriptures for me to go to the temple and do all these things that are directly related to the Mormon Church and believing that those are the things that are getting me closer to God and butBut I think you can you know I think there's people that take in both directions you know where where people can you know find that relationship outside of the church and I think that's a lot of time what brings people out of churches they realize hey you know God exists outside of this bubble that I've placed him in and then there's other people you know who who don't really care about a relationship with God because as long as you know they're so strong in a church then they believe well if I'm strong in the church then I have to be you know have a good relationship with God and and and there's that difference but with me personally it was just it was me seeking for God but getting to the point where the church was God to me so every you know desire I had to be closer to God was me putting myself deeper into the Mormon Church you know saying okay you know going to serve a mission is for God you know going to the temple is for God reading my scriptures is for God doing all these things is to you know bring me closer to him and so but again I think there's a lot of people seeking relationships with God and you know people who seek are going to find you know and that's what happened to me is is I found and realized you know that God is bigger and more amazing than any you know organization you know that he spans the universe with his love and His mercy and his patience and his willingness to you know reach into into our hearts and and give us true life and and and do that outside of a church is an amazing thing so that's well but you know um so let's talk that a little bit about the process for you mm-hmm okay I didn't caster yeah I'll just start start right there in my passion is a Mormon missionary I you know we would go door-to-door we would talk to people and just preach the gospel you know try to try to save their souls I actually had a really unique experience early on in my mission a mission experience is two years and I was only about six months into my mission so I was pretty kind of new still getting used to it well my companion and I went to a church on a Sunday evening in Calvary Baptist Church in Winter Garden Florida and we stopped there with the sincere let me just start over sorry just get my thoughts together I think he did this at this point in the yeah yeah that's fine it's like it's such you know I want to get my yeah that's my my points lined out so that feel free to do with the I don't make it I don't want to make it too long all right God began to change my life an amazing way about six months into my two-year mission experience and it happened when my mission Capanna and I showed up at Calvary Baptist Church in Winter Garden Florida and we pull into this church and we're there because we believe that these people are lost that these you know so-called Christians need the true gospel and that's really how how bold and assertive I was as a missionary I was willing to go into this church of four or five hundred people sit through this service so that I could talk to the pastor and try to convert him to Mormonism and really try to convert the entire congregation and when also when I was a mission I we used to hear these kind of miracle stories of these you know missionaries who would do things like that where they would you know convert pastors and convert entire congregations and I'm just thinking you know I'm that missionary if anybody's going to do it it's me I've been a full-time temple worker you know I you know so active and faithful I've such a burning testimony you know God is going to do this through me he's gonna and he's going to save these people so after the church service which I was actually very moved by the way I really felt that the presence of God and I it actually brought me to tears you know but I was just too blind but still the whole time I'm thinking boy these people are so lost if only they had the whole truth after the service we go up and we talked to the pastor and we say you know we have this message and we want to share with you the message of the restored gospel and and he said okay he said I'll listen so the next day we go back to the church and it's just my companion and I and this pastor and and he basically says okay you know share share with me your interpretation of the gospel and he was very respective in the way that he did it because he gave us a chance to to teach him you know the Mormon gospel and so for about an hour my companion I teach him about you know how were you know we're saved by these works you know how Smith restored the true gospel how he restored the true priesthood and and how you know but one true church the only way to be saved is now on the earth and if you're baptized in that church and you perform the proper ordinances and works then you can be saved you know and that was our good news that was the message of salvation was that you know God's true church was on the earth and if you join that church you'd be saved and he just kind of looked at us any-any said okay and as we finished I'm just thinking all right you know we've borne testimony we've given him the truth there's no way that he can deny this he's gonna you know he's going to confess right here he's gonna you know confess and be baptized and that's really what was going on in my heart and you know I just had all these mixed emotions and he and you know as we finished he just looked me in the eye and he said you know I appreciate what you've told me but it's wrong in my heart just you know it just sunk so deep and at that point I just wanted to just shut up you know I just wanted to shut down I didn't want to hear anything he had to say because I knew that I wasn't going to like what he's going to have to say after that and he started to teach us and he did it in a way that was so loving and he did it in a way you know that was so sincere that it kind of it forced me to open up my heart even a little bit even though I didn't I didn't want to it was just the way that he the way he approached it you know I could tell that he had the sincere desire to help us and he opened up the Bible and he just started to read from the words of Jesus and His apostles what the true gospel really was and he started to read you know things like Ephesians 2 you know how we were dead in our sins you know but but God sent Jesus Christ to make us alive to save us and that by grace we are saved not by works and Romans 3 and just all these different passages from the New Testament that showed this immense and an incredible love that God has for each one of us that he wants to save us and that salvation comes through the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made on the cross that we work that had to be done was done when Jesus Christ was nailed to the cross and when he was raised from the dead three days later and he taught us about this gospel you know there was just something so marvelous I couldn't believe it I couldn't accept it I mean how can you just believe in what Jesus did and be saved it just it went so far above my head I just couldn't comprehend it and I was just thinking you know this guy he's so lost he done he doesn't know you know he's been deceived by the devil in thinking that salvation is that easy and the problem though is that you know everything he was teaching was coming right out of the Bible it's like I had no way to refute him except with you know the Book of Mormon or the doctrine of covenants or you know Mormon scriptures you know there's nothing I didn't know the Bible well enough to open it up and say okay well this is how you're wrong pastor and you know just one scripture after another he just you know read us about you know read to us about God's true love and it really frustrated me and it made me so angry as I sat there and listened there was a small small part of me that was amazed by what he was saying but there was a larger part of me because of the training I had been given that was just angry you know saying you know this is you know we're not wrong you're wrong and even though I can't prove it with the Bible I know because I God gave me a testimony in my heart and it kind of came down to that where I you know I couldn't refute what he was saying with scripture all I could do was say well I know the Joseph Smith was a prophet I know that the Book of Mormon is true regardless of what the Bible may say you know I've asked God and he's told me and this is the answer I received and what answer is better than something directly from God and this pastor was so loving and he just you know looked me the eyes and just shook his head and said you know you're deceived and one of the things he said right at the end of the meeting was he challenged me and this is a challenge that they ended up completely turning my life upside down and he said I challenge you to read the Bible as a child and basically to prove him wrong through the Bible you know and he said if you read the Bible as a child you will see that for the very first time you know your eyes will be open and you will see that this gospel that you have lit been living is not the gospel of Jesus Christ it is not the good news that that was brought in the New Testament and oh man that made me so upset and I really I took his challenge and I took his challenge not to give him the satisfaction but I took the challenge so that I could solidify my faith in the Mormon Church through the Bible because I'm thinking well if I'm going to spend the next two years bible-bashing with with you know Southern Baptist preachers in Florida you know then I really need to to know the Bible and I figured if this is God's true church if this is the only way and God's love is so great that he wants us all to be saved surely he's going to make it obvious you know he's going to you know he's not going to hide it so I said surely I can prove that the Mormon Church is true through the Bible and so I set out on this quest six months into my two-year mission to to solidify my faith in the Mormon Church through the Bible I had prayed about it I knew it was true I'd receive that testimony but I said it's got to be written you know the word has to has to solidify my faith in the Mormon Church and so I went on this quest for the next 18 months basically to prove this pastor wrong and to you know strengthen my faith in the LDS Church but that's when God began to do an incredible work in my life and and every day that I sat down and started reading the New Testament I I came across the this exact same message of salvation that this pastor had told me and I started reading the Scriptures know that said that you know Romans three for example for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God but were justified by His grace you know as a gift that there's this salvation that that eternal life is a gift from God it's you can't work for a gift you know pay for a gift - gift is free and I started realizing that the gospel I had been living my entire life was a gospel of works and I realized I've been trying to prove myself to God I've been trying to work for my own salvation I've been trying to to establish my own righteousness when in fact right here in the Bible it says that that righteousness comes through faith in Jesus Christ and one of the scriptures that really hit me was you know the one where Jesus says you know many will come to me and say Lord Lord and and it says you know haven't we done all these amazing works you know in your name then Jesus says I never knew you and and you know he says not everyone that comes to me saying Lord Lord will enter in the kingdom of heaven but he that does the will of my father and I said well what is the will of the father and in John Jesus says that the will of the Father is to believe in the son and I'm thinking you know wow you know all these people that come to Jesus and say look at our works look at the things we've done look how righteous we are you know he's gonna he's going to say I never knew you but those who come to him saying I believe in the son I believe in Jesus Christ I accept him as my savior that is the will of the Father those are the people that are going to receive salvation and I just it really it really brought me to tears because I realized that my whole life I had had everything backwards you know where I was trying to earn salvation when it was a gift that was being handed to me so freely by Jesus Christ and all I had to do was accept it all I had to do was have faith that Jesus loved me that much that he could give his life as a ransom for mine and and thereby accepting that gift I could be saved I could have eternal life I could live with God and and in it I I just I was so confused and I was almost scared because Here I am a Mormon missionary I'm starting to come into this understanding of what it means to be a true Christian what the true gospel is and it completely contradicts everything that I've ever been and everything that I have ever believed and I go through this long process over months and months of reading the Bible reading the New Testament and God just you know like in Ephesians it talks about how you know he washes us with his word and God just washed me from head to tail with his word and I I literally like it says in the Bible I became a new creature you know I became this new creation in Jesus Christ and I became born again I had been washed you know by this incredible message of salvation and I I'd been I drank the living water I had you know eaten of the bread of life for the first time truly in my life and I always a new person I had become born again and I'm a Mormon missionary I'm supposed to go out teaching people that salvation comes through this church and a no other way and I didn't believe that anymore I understood that that nobody is saved but through the name of Jesus Christ and that he is the way the truth and the life and there is you know there is nothing else there's no other way that we can be saved that then through Jesus Christ and through his sacrifice and so I I actually started going out everyday as a missionary knocking on people's doors how long was that process from when you first were given that challenge to when you really started having a change of heart that actually affected the way you you operated um I would say that that change probably took place in a matter of about a year it I mean it was more immediate than that but I would say a year from from when I had that meeting with the pastor I was I would say that I had become a born-again Christian and and with and so that means I had about six months ago on my mission and by that time I was knocking on people's doors not trying to bring them into the Mormon gospel or in the Mormon Church but bringing them a message of salvation Jesus Christ that I had just found and it was the most amazing thing that I had ever you know felt and read and believed in my entire and as strong as my testimony had been in the Mormon Church it paled in comparison to the knowledge of this being saved by grace that I had discovered through through God's Word and so I would knock on people's doors and say we have a message about Jesus Christ and they said well we already know the Lord I said well god bless you have a good day and we you know we would move on to the next house if they didn't say that what kind of message would you give them you know I I I would I had my Bible and that was it I mean I still had my Mormon scriptures in my pack but I would pull out my Bible and I would we would teach them from the New Testament I would just there's one of the discussions and you know I wasn't I wasn't being dishonest as a missionary because I was still teaching them you know principles that were part of the Mormon gospel and one of the Mormon lessons is about you know Jesus and his earthly ministry and the atonement and so I would kind of use those as my foundation and make that my whole message you know was was you know Jesus Christ came he he died for our sins he rose again that is the good news that is the gospel if we believe in that then we'll be saved and through that belief comes a change of heart comes a change of behavior you know comes you know the fruit of being a Christian and after I had that I mean you know that that initial change in my heart you know for these last six months I started you know these other things started piling on at this point I didn't really understand or accept that the Mormon Church was false I just thought that that they were you know kind of misled in their teachings of what the true gospel was I didn't realize you know that this whole foundation was wrong and about just weeks before the end of my mission I had what was another huge Epiphany and that was when I read the book of Hebrews for the first time and I I you know this this whole foundation of the Mormon Church you know being prophets and apostles and temples and priesthood and all these things you know these were the the total foundation of the church you know what was this restoration the priesthood restoration of God's true church and all these things we have a living prophet today and when I started reading Hebrews and I got to probably about chapter 7 read chapter 7 8 9 10 11 I just I laid in bed for I don't know how long just staring at the ceiling going god you know it's all wrong you know it's not just this concept this idea that we're working for our salvation that I had been taught I thought well maybe you know we can change that within the Mormon Church and then I realize everything that this church is built upon was fulfilled when Jesus Christ came and died for us and I realized you know that this idea of this one true church organization you know was completely false this idea that that you know this that we had to have this priesthood in order to perform these ordinances and works was completely false you know that we had high priests today that we had you know Old Testament big P prophets that live today who you know intersect and mediated between us and God I said you know every single role of the priesthood has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ you know Jesus Christ came and sacrificed himself you know and became our high priest our one and only high priest because now he is our intercessor he mediates between us and the Father he is our prophet he is our priest he is our king you know he now introduces this new priesthood this royal priesthood that's given to everybody who believes and now he holds the Melchizedek Priesthood and he's the only one who holds Melchizedek Priesthood I as a Mormon thought I had the Melchizedek Priesthood they ordained me with the Melchizedek Priesthood and and when I read that Jesus is the only priest in Melchizedek Jesus is the only high priest Jesus is the only prophet you know I it hit me like a ton of bricks I mean I came and described in words you know when I realized at that point that that the entire Mormon Church was built on a lie was built on you know a false gospel and in Matthew you know Jesus teaches that you know a bad tree cannot produce good fruit nor can a good good tree produce bad fruit I realize you know that the Mormon Church you know the roots of that church are poison from the beginning and it is a bad tree and therefore all this fruit as good as it may seem and all the charity work and all the you know amazing you know good works that the church does it's it's all coming from a bad you know a bad tree and if they're not bringing the true message of salvation to the world then it doesn't matter all the good things that they do and that was such a frightening time for me I kind of locked myself in my room and just just prayed to God and saying you know what do I do now now that the foundation of everything I've ever believed in is gone and all I have now is okay I've got the Bible I've got Jesus you know and I've got grace and it was like okay that's all I have to hold on to now but the question was you know what do I do you know these men I've been following these men are supposed to be my leaders are deceiving me you know whether intentionally or not it doesn't really matter you know the gospel that they're teaching is is completely and totally false and God actually provided me with with an exit in his own way because I kept praying you know what do I do I can't continue to go out there every day you know pretending to be something that I'm not and at the very end of my mission I had this opportunity where it's a tradition where Mormon missionaries will get up in front of all their peers when they're about to go home and they'll basically share their testimony and the ironic part about this particular day was that the mission president had given this this this sermon about how you had to be built on the foundation of these five pillars to have a true testimony and he names all five pillars and the five pillars are you have to believe Joseph Smith was a prophet you had to believe that the Book of Mormon is a Word of God you had to believe that the LDS Church is the only true and living church on the face of the earth you had to believe that Jesus was the savior you had to believe that we had a living living prophet today and that he was the mouthpiece of God and you didn't believe in all five of those things in your foundation then your testimony was was not on a solid foundation and one of the things he said and he looked me directly in the eyes because the changes that had taken place in my life and not gone unnoticed you know by him or my peers and he said a testimony in Jesus Christ is not enough it's not enough you have to be built on all five pillars in order to have a solid testimony and and that you know that was kind of with everything that happened before that was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back and I just knew you know I'm I'm never going to be in the Mormon Church again I knew that you know something had to happen and and and you know this wasn't where I was going to be you know every plan that I had made for my life every dream that I had you know was gone that God had a completely new life prepared for me and so being one of the missionaries I was going home I get up there and not in a matter of defiance and not in a desire to be defiant but but simply speaking what was in my heart I chaired I just laid it all on the table about what God had done you know with my life in the last two years and how I had come to know and understand that Jesus Christ was the only way and that he's all we need and that we don't need to believe in anything else but him in order to be saved and it was just it was a really emotional moment for me I was you know crying and ill actually a lot of the people in the audience were crying I mean these were people that I had had served with I had you know spent all this time with I mean I had been a leader in the mission for almost a year and a half I mean it which is really kind of unheard of I had been you know in this position where I was a leader over all these other missionaries and I you know and in that way I'd gain respect and love from from almost every missionary in the mission and and Here I am saying you know Jesus Christ is it he's all uni and he's enough he's the only way and he's changed my life and he can change your life too and ironically enough two days later I get a phone call that's my mission president and he wants to talk with me and we meet and it's just the two of us and he he basically opens it up you know and says what's going on I've noticed this change in you I want you to be straightforward and honest with me and and I was I confessed everything and basically said you know I don't have a testimony in the LDS Church anymore I don't believe that that this church is true I don't believe that you know you need any Church for salvation you know but but you know when you when you believe in and are saved you become part of the church you become part of that body you know and and and the priesthood and the prophets and the temples and all these things that have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ you know I I told him I didn't believe in that anymore that it wasn't necessary and in fact it was it was wrong you know to believe that that I had to go into this building in order to be in God's presence when when we as the body of Christ are now God's temple and his Spirit dwells within us within the believing body and I you know dis confessed everything and just said you know Jesus is all I need I've saved you know by believing in him you know his grace covers me His grace is sufficient you know for my sins and he looked at me and you know he was very disappointed and I think he was actually sincere you know in that you know he believed that I had been deceived I guess but you know he said I was following the spirit of the devil you know that I had been deceived by an evil spirit that I was following you know down a path that was that was you know no good and that you know I wasn't worthy to be a missionary anymore and that my standing in the church was in question and all that no but it didn't mean anything to me at that point you know I had recognized you know in the days up to that point that you know my future and the Mormon Church is over you know but but I am built on a new foundation of Jesus Christ and it's you know there's nothing better it's it's just words cannot describe the feeling of you know finally knowing the Lord Jesus Christ in a way that you've always wanted to because I you know I had always wanted to know him and you know that was kind of the whole focus of my life up to my mission was was having a personal relationship with him but never feeling like I could really get there um but reading his word for the very first time and and you know being washed clean by that word and understanding what his gospel really was that's you know that's what changed my life and I finally for the first time my life had this incredible personal relationship with Jesus Christ you know there was no barrier there's no man between me and him you know I I I felt like you know I was with him and he was with me and he loved me and his arms were around me and it was just you know indescribable and so you know for the church to say that that you know my salvation was at stake it didn't mean anything because I I was so secure in Jesus Christ I had this relationship with him that I was so sure that that he had saved me you know from my sin by the work that he did on the cross that that you know I was I was a complete and total peace and I I was kicked off my mission the next day they sent me home you know to kind of face face the lion stand you know but God you know God just reached into my life you know and he and I guess I want to make the point that you know he changed my life through his word you know if there's anything you know that I could say to anybody it would be to read God's Word to read the Bible to read you know the true gospel Jesus Christ from the mouth of the Savior and from the mouth of his apostles and and and you know watch her life completely change and just let go of all these other things you know that that holds you captive and all these things that I believed that I had to do in order to prove myself to God they just fell away I said I can't prove myself to God but it doesn't matter he loves me because I've accepted you know the sacrifice of Jesus Christ I have faith in him I believe in him and it'll never be the same standing well um sorry I know it's kind of lonely no no no the Sutter I'd rather had too much info well and actually that the reasonable question because I've got more stuff I'd like to talk to you about terms a quarter after eleven now okay do we wanna do you want to it's gonna be kind of hard to bring somebody else inside it before lunch should we just continue with you and yeah yeah yeah that's fine I mean we don't you know because we're running at the end of the tape here too so yeah if we want to switch out and kind of yeah okay so if you want to

Channel: Sacred Groves

Views: 64,875

Rating: 4.6539974 out of 5

Keywords: mormon, mormonism, christian, christianity, bible, biblical, adams, road, micah, wilder

Id: TEkJlXU4Kr0

Length: 55min 54sec (3354 seconds)

Published: Fri Jan 21 2011