SARAH DENNIS Interview

my name's Sarah Dennis and I was raised in a typical Mormon family my family were Mormons going back generations we went to church every Sunday we did you know all the midweek activities all of the award activities you know we were cookie cutter Mormons you know uh so yeah that was my life growing up was as a typical active Mormon I was yeah I was I was raised to believe in it wholeheartedly and I did I had no no inkling that that anything could be off in Salt Lake City and some people have described it as being a Mormon bubble it was that your experience that was I was very aware that we were in a bubble and that life in Utah was very different than in other states I actually feared living in a different state because I I knew that it would be hard to be an active Mormon outside of Utah outside of that bubble so I always said I'm never moving from Utah I'm staying in the bubble I like my bubble yeah yeah living in Florida now that things didn't go as planned issues and were you aware of growing up at a very young age I was faced with my pride God showed me my pride and the error of that because when you're you're raised Mormon you know I grew up always hearing you're so special and and you know yes men have their priesthood but women are God's crowning achievement and you know we were constantly being built up and so I would say in my my early teens was when I saw in myself my pride I I put myself above other people and maybe not so much on the outside but on the inside I was very judgmental and I it was kind of an 8 feet and in a thinking - oh well I do that better than you do so I'm better than you kind of a thing so God showed me that and I saw how ugly that was in me and I didn't want to be that kind of a person I didn't want to be someone who thought that I was better than everybody and so I thought that - to change that in me I needed to embrace the Mormon Church more and that by doing that that I would somehow purge myself of that that pride and that was the only thing I knew but what it ended up doing was feeding my pride because I would look at myself and say oh I'm I'm doing everything I need to do I am so good I'm such a good person you know and then and then seeing people who weren't doing doing everything that they should be doing then I continued to put myself above other other people and then I would realize I was doing it and feel bad and kicked myself like oh I please just don't let me do this anymore but it only continued to progress and get worse and you know being given callings that were only given to you know hire older people in the church and I was so young and so because I'm given this calling at such a young age that must mean that I'm so good and I'm so righteous you know it was it was a very bad cycle don't worry God's taken that from me that's a pretty unusual thing to hear from somebody who's it was all God God showed it to me and he you know showed me the kind of person that it made me and I was like whoa that's pretty ugly I don't want to be like that okay well when I was 21 I was called to be the young women's president which is something they typically give to you know 40 year old women or you know something like that so being having just graduated out of the young women's program three years before you know that made me think oh yeah pretty pretty darn special yeah I've arrived I'm pretty darn special he was to you in that time well like I said you know I I didn't really take my struggles personally to God I thought you know well this is the Mormon Church this is God's church so I should embrace that to be you know so I went I went through the the channels of Mormonism rather than taking things personally to God you know I prayed but not with the not with the understanding that this is a big God who has complete control of my life and can you know I thought that God had to work through the channels of the Mormon Church so that's how I had to go to the God himself was bound away right right yeah yeah yeah I definitely felt God was bound they do teach that that God is bound by laws so that that puts God in a box pretty small box your primary relationship was with the church because the church was what was the mediator yes the church was definitely the mediator between me and God I you know you are taught that you can pray and you do but it's there's always a distance there it doesn't feel like you're talking to someone who's sitting in the same room with you but when I was 20 years old my mom was killed in a car accident and that that was the first time in my life that I went to God personally because I had to I I was so desperate for relief that I knew that but no man was gonna give me because everybody would express their condolences and you know if you ever need to talk come to me and while I appreciated the sentiment I really did it didn't make me feel better at all and so I was desperate and I spent hours on my knees just talking to God and pouring my heart out to him I'm pleading with him for deliverance of my pain and he did that was the beginning of my relationship with him I felt him carry me through that and felt his arms around me when I needed it the most and that was when I began to realize how big he is and how much he truly loves me and that I I could go to him personally I didn't have to go through channels so that was that was the beginning of my relationship with him at the time I was just so desperate for comfort that you know I just I just fell and just cried out to him I did still continue to embrace the Mormon Church because I thought that God was there but still meanwhile my prayers were becoming more personal with him and so the next week I went that way for the next you know year and a half or something and then met Stefan who is my husband now and we started dating and we had a really quick our relationship progressed fast it was two weeks after we met we both knew that God was telling us that this was right that he wanted us together and so you know big well okay I don't know why but you know of course I I love him you know but so we went with that and we were married three months after that so it was a very quick quick thing but so we while we were engaged we would go to the temple every week together you know tried to be the best the best Mormon couple that we could be we knew that we would be starting a family and want it to be the best parents we could be and by doing everything that we were required to do that that would make us perfect you know we were yeah we were married in the Timpanogos temple in Utah Mary unsealed he was a returned missionary again it fed into my pride because I like we were driving to San Diego on our honeymoon and I got this great feeling like I did this right you know I'm so good god is so pleased with me I did this right I got married in the temple I got married to a returned missionary in the temple and we're living how we should be living so again I'm so good did you have a testimony I would say growing up I never liked studying church history so because of that I never had a firm testimony of Joseph Smith but I believed everything else in the church not that I disbelieved I didn't disbelieve in Joseph Smith I just didn't have that Wow I know that he is you know a prophet like well the rest of it it had to be true you know because the rest of this is true so it has to be so that was kind of my you know I believed wholeheartedly that all the rest of Mormon doctrine was true so Joseph Smith's first vision had to be true - what's the difference between belief a Mormon testimony is having a burning in your bosom feeling that something is true you know go to church on Sunday everything is nice and peaceful and quiet you hear things that sound good to your ears and it makes you feel good so yes this is true it makes me feel good as opposed to a belief in just knowing something you know it was never that that I just knew it just made me feel good so it this is true it makes me feel good yeah reading the Book of Mormon it made me feel good so that had to be true too and so truth then could be you know something was more true the stronger the stronger your feelings were yeah okay so you're thinking I'm so good because I I did everything the right way and we even we went to the San Diego temple on our honeymoon made that a day trip that's how good Mormons you know good Mormons we were and we were doing everything we could to be good people what were the things that started leading up to crisis point I guess I my situation is kind of unique in that I didn't really have doubts leading up to like making me question things it was more a bomb was dropped on me it was about almost two years into our marriage and I noticed that my husband Stefan was different he was not embracing the Mormon Church like he used to and he's a big reader so I would come in and find him reading you know his sci-fi novels or you know different kinds of novels whatever and now all I saw him reading was the Bible I was like that's different but it's not a bad book so that's okay you know whatever that was my exact thought well it's not bad so that's okay so this went on for a few months and he would just he would you know slip in little questions to me you know one of them was like so do you think the Mormon Church would ever challenge the members to read the New Testament in a year like they always do a book of Mormon challenge I was like well no the Book of Mormon is the most correct books so why would they ask us to read something else he's like okay so he was just asking me little questions like that I think trying to get me to think about things all the all the meanwhile not telling me that he his faith in the Mormon Church was slipping and a few months of this and I kind of I kind of just dismissed it I didn't really I was like well there's something going on here but I'm not sure what it is it's not bad but I'm just not familiar with this you know so I just kind of well I don't know what to think so I just shelved it and then a few months later I think it was January of 2008 we started having a conversation about the fall of Adam and Eve and the Mormon Church teaches that that was a good thing and my husband is telling me no this was a bad thing this brought sin and death into the world so he what he was telling me things that went against church teaching and so I started fighting with him and I eventually confronted him I was like you don't believe in the Mormon Church anymore do you he's like no I don't and this and this in this scripture is why and immediately my walls went up I was I was ready to fight I had my gloves on and everything he said to me I would come back with a different a different answer and he always shot it down with a scripture from the Bible and I was lost I didn't I had nothing to say and that made me angry and you know the Mormon Church teaches that if you need comfort you can go to the temple and you know that's the house of the Lord so I did I ran away to the temple furious and and I prayed on my way there like father do I need to find another husband who can be with me in the celestial kingdom and God's answer was very this was one of those things that you know is not coming from anywhere else this is God he just he spoke to me so forcefully no stick with your husband it's like okay this is kind of a predicament so anyway I went to the temple and did did an endowment session and was sitting in the celestial room after this whole time feeling nothing but emptiness there was nothing good nothing bad just empty and you know I was like okay I'm not I'm just not open to something that's something I'm doing is wrong this is not right so I'm sitting in this in the celestial room just waiting for for anything besides the emptiness and it never came just emptiness and it was a new experience it was usually and when you're sitting in the celestial room it's very peaceful you might get people you know praying and it's just a different feeling but when I was there that night I'll all I felt was the emptiness and you know looking back now I can see that that was God telling me you don't have to run anywhere but me I will never leave you empty you know but but anything else will anything else will so I went back home that night and in my stubborn pride didn't want to tell Stefan that I didn't have a good experience there because that would validate what he was saying he asked me how it was it was good and I went right to bed because I I just didn't want to discuss it and so then the next morning we continued our conversation I was still angry still fighting him and but but this whole time he never ever lost his temper with me he was very patient he spoke to me with love and he he I could tell you know he knew his Bible those months of studying it he knew it and because he always had he always had a scripture to spit back at me that would counter what I was saying and it was a reaction just yeah I I wouldn't say I never had a mistrust for the Bible but I didn't have a longing to know the Bible because the Mormon Church teaches you that it can't be trusted that it's mistranslated um this was like well yeah that's all well and good but you know and I I didn't I didn't discount what he was saying because it came from the Bible I was just I was just kind of flabbergasted because I didn't have anything to counter what he was saying nothing I could say could counter what he was teaching me from the Bible he was teaching me about a living prophet telling me why we don't need a living prophet today telling me scriptures from Hebrews and you know various other places telling me about Mormon temples which was a big thing for me and about how the temple is is not of God anyway we'll get to that later that's that's a big that's a big part of my story so you know we continued our our discussion and God spoke to me again he kind of knocked me upside the head it's like look at yourself you are not open to anything right now you are completely closed off and you wouldn't know what truth was if it bit you in the butt and I like that took me back to I was like oh my gosh you're right I am not open to anything right now and so I just asked I asked him to soften my heart I asked him to just show me what was true whether it was the Mormon Church or it wasn't just show me what was true and immediately I felt God soften my heart and and then everything Stefan was saying was making sense to me and and he could tell he you know my whole demeanor had changed he's like this is making sense to you now isn't it I said well yes it is but I need to study it for myself I can't you know I'm not just going to take your word for it being the stubborn person that I am it is and so so I did he gave me a page of notes just on why Mormon temples are not biblical so I started there and I Acts chapter seven God does not dwell in temples made with hands that was my eye-opener like okay God does not dwell in temples made with hands so the Mormon temple is not God's house like you're telling me it is so what goes on inside is probably not what you're telling me it is either so if you're lying to me about this what else are you lying to me about so that's the Mormon Church yeah because they say that the their prophet walks in talks with God in the temple that is literally his house so to find out that God does not dwell in temples made with hands that's not his house and then further reading that we are the temple of God he dwells in us in every believer like wow it really opened my eyes to the magnitude of God God was not trapped in a box anymore he was so much bigger as so much better than I knew he could be and I was so excited about that it's like wow this this God is awesome so continue to study the Bible in conjunction with studying church history and you know finding out all the skeletons in the closet that are in their own published works I never touched any anti-mormon literature it was just studying the church history reading the New Testament in conjunction with each other eventually reading the church history just made me angry and I couldn't do that anymore and so I just stuck with reading the New Testament and studying that getting to know this new God that I it was just so exciting and the first thing I went through was anger anger at the Mormon Church for lying to me because I believed they did it blatantly so I was angry at them for a long time uh I would say I would say it was probably a few months of anger at the Mormon Church until I just couldn't let that eat me away anymore so I left I left that alone we we had our names officially removed from the church records we didn't want any part of that anymore because it wasn't truth we only wanted partnership with truth so yeah we did that and we we started going to different Christian churches around the Salt Lake Valley trying to find a church that we liked and we did that for a long time and then the Adams Road guys came out on their first tour and which Steffen clearly knew them so we went to other shows in Utah and they their music and their testimonies propelled mine even further they opened it opened my eyes to more of who God is like and to more of the realization that that I am a sinner I knew I was a sinner but that Jesus paid the complete price for me the complete price it's like are you serious you'd like it's very humbling very exciting you feel his love so that was I was so it was a few months of studying until I was until I was born again I would say till I realized that Jesus bought me with his life that I was his and done and he changed me he took that that pride that I'd struggled with my whole life and he took it away from me and I don't feel that anymore I feel nothing but the love of God that lives in me I never looked at anybody anymore saying oh I'm better than you no we're all the same we're all sinners God loves us all equally we're all in the same boat and not one is better than another so praise God for that I he took it away that is a good question I think the reason I got angry with Stefan was he was challenging my beliefs he was challenging what I knew to be true what I was raised to believe was true and he was challenging that and that made me angry this was this was my husband who I trusted and loved and who we were supposed to share this with you know we were supposed to share this together and he's he's coming at me telling me that it's not true and that made me angry but as a with my mom nothing nothing was being challenged it was complete desperation and seeking for comfort when I I had been given the examples before of you know no person has given me real comfort so it was the desperation of God can you give it to me not really it was I wouldn't say it was desperation it was like it was hope it was it was yes I have been faced with my sin for a long time and now you're nothing before it could take that away because I was trying to do it myself but then I'm faced with look and Jesus died for you to take that away from you that's the answer so it was it was hope it was it was exciting it was like this is finally the way to becoming who I want to be so did you had a sense then that you had found that something that you yeah yeah I definitely this is what I've been looking for this is my way out of my sin the evidence is the change he made in me I knew that I was a better person now and it wasn't because of anything I did he changed my heart I no longer looked at people the same way I no longer thought about my initial reaction was not to judge people anymore my initial reaction for people became to love them and that's how I knew that it was not Satan trying to deceive me trying to lead me off off the right path this was this was what changed me and made me better and it was all God it had nothing to do with me or anybody else he changed me so and what would you say then to the charge that you just wanted to go off and not be bound by the rules of the Mormon Church and and the Christians believe that you just say your little prayer and you can do whatever you want yeah yeah when I was raised Mormon I did you know we were taught that Christians just believe that they're saved by grace so they can do whatever they want and they're covered but when when you've tasted that grace and God's made that change in you you don't want to go do things like that you you don't want to go be you know doing drugs and sleeping with lots of people you you want to live for God you want to to share with people the the love that he's given you you want to show people the change he's made in you and it's not about living for your desires anymore it's about living for God and for your faith in Him completely not about self anymore one thing I want to ask you you had mentioned that you know when you first stormed off to the temple mmm you were entertaining the idea should I get another husband mm-hmm is that typical one spouse yeah and it's very typical for Mormon couples if one of them decides to leave the Mormon Church that they get a divorce and find someone else who is worthy to be sealed in the temple with them for the reason that Mormon women can only get to the celestial kingdom if they are married in the temple to a worthy men that's your key for salvation so if I if I don't have someone who is worthy of the celestial kingdom then I can't go there either my salvation is gone so it is very typical for couples to get divorced if one of them leaves the Mormon Church especially if the husband does we've known people who have for their salvation and so that would have been the first thing you would have thought carry you to the highest level of yeah now I'm lost now what am I gonna do so I need to find someone else who can take me there I'm kind of impressed with his gentleness and its respect for your thinking working through rather than saying mmm-hmm did you did you recognize that while I was going and feel as though you were kind of somehow not being looked down to - changing them but he wants me to get there he was very respectful yes yes when we were when we were having our I'll call in an argument because I was arguing but he was not he was very respectful of me the whole time he he was never you know this is how it's gonna be I don't believe in this and missus he was not like that he he respected that this was a hard discussion for me he he was very patient with me and he through the whole thing I felt love from him which made me a little more more angry why aren't you fighting back I am the good one here why aren't you fighting back but he was he God had changed him not that he was you know that way before but he definitely had nothing but peace and patience and love yeah and from when you first came right up to the time where anyone you would say that your heart was softened to at least hear him out how long did that take how long was that argument yeah the time that we actually well that I argued it was about a day and a half it was very fast you know it seems like God has always done things quickly with me because I'm sure he's worried about what your reactions he was he was when I when I ran off to the temple he then called Christian friends from Adams Road Lee I just told him that I don't believe and I think she's gonna leave me and what do I do and you know he had told me that later but they said just trust in God you know he'll handle it so he did he trusted you ever I was never angry that he didn't include me in it prior to this because having gone through it myself you know that the studying and the searching he didn't I don't believe that he had like how would he approach it you know I don't think he would say you know look I'm questioning this why don't you study this with me out of fear you know because he always had the fear that I would leave him if if I found out that he didn't believe anymore so I understand that and I had compassion for that like I understand that you were afraid you know and that you didn't want to bring me into it he had to have his concrete faith before he could tell me that's why it's such a blessing that God did work with me as quickly as he did that was the first taste of grace that I had received that it could have been a long drawn-out process like it is for most people but he he chose to shorten that considerably for us so we were able to go through the journey together well we we had a transition period where we no longer believed the Mormon Church was true but we kept going on Sunday because we didn't know any different and we weren't quite ready to tell people yet that we didn't believe in it anymore so we continued to go and then we would come home and like did you hear what they said like the Bible says this but they're saying this it's like so we would come home and you know that was making us angry too because it was so blatantly against what God was had taught in the Bible and so we did that for a few months and then on Easter Sunday we went to the Mormon Church and they didn't talk about Jesus at all and that was our final straw really on Easter you can't talk about our Lord and Savior at least mention him other than you know in Jesus name Amen you can't even mention what he's done for you you know so we were that was we were done we were done so we stopped going and you know obviously our families could tell that we were changing they didn't know really what was going on but a few months later we did well Stefan's parents confronted us about it and and we confessed to them no we don't believe in the Mormon Church anymore we believe in Jesus we believe in having a relationship with Jesus and that it's all about him and went through some issues in the church that kind of thing but it didn't really go over too well and you know we I feel like we kind of approached it with the same the same compassion that Stefan had approached it with me like I I know this is hard for you to hear but I have to be honest you know so that that strained our relationship with his parents they never shunned us we were never unwelcome in their home but things were strained for a while and with his sister he has one sister that still won't talk to us to this day but you know we have faith that God will soften her heart in time in his time so and my family my my dad has been in and out of the church his whole life so at this point he was out he he didn't seem like he really wanted to hear why we had left it seems like those who are you know Jack Mormons or people who just they seem to be more defensive of it than active Mormons at times and so so I would I told him you know we're we've left the Mormon Church because of false doctrine and he said well who says it's like you don't believe in it either her why are you defending it but anyway so I you know I I sent him an email explaining to him why we are saved by grace why it is nothing that we can do to get us to heaven you know that Jesus you know because the Mormon Church says you are saved by grace after all you can do so I explained to him why after all you can do nullifies the grace completely that it's either completely by grace or it's not at all and why would Jesus come to the earth and suffer like he did just to pick up the rest of what we couldn't do ourselves that makes no sense to me no he did it to save us so I never really heard much of it after that and you know so but my relationship with my family is still I still have a good relationship with them which is another another taste of God's grace because that's not the case for a lot of people so I'm very very grateful to him for that so um it had been it was a little over a year since we had become Christians that and Stefan was still in contact with people from Adams Road you know would still talk to them occasionally and things were getting bad for us Stefan was getting laid off from he got laid off from two jobs we were struggling financially and then God opened a door that Adams Road invited us to move out to Florida to be part of their ministry and we didn't think twice we just we knew that that's what God wanted us to do and so we we started making arrangements we moved out to Florida we left our families neither of us had lived outside of Utah really except for Stefan on his mission but I had certainly never left Utah it was a very big big leap of faith for us I didn't know what I would be doing out here I didn't know I just didn't know all I knew was that this is what God wanted me to do it's like well I can't argue with that I can't ask you questions are you sure well what do you you know so we did it we we packed up what we could in the biggest trailer that our Honda Accord could pull left the rest behind and we never looked back and we've never looked back to this day we still know that this is what God wants us to do this is where he wants us to you the the thing that the difference between life now as opposed to life before I knew Christ I would say the biggest difference is living by faith I don't worry about anything anymore before I was always like oh we're not gonna have enough money for this and what are we I need to plan this and this and this and now it's like God's got it I don't have to worry about that you know if he he's never let me down ever he has proved his faithfulness to me time and time again and that only increases my faith I never ever doubt God ever I don't worry about anything I know that you know if we're a little bit tight on money God's gonna make a way for whatever he wants to happen happen and his ways always better than my way so you know I just I want his way I don't want my way I want my way to be his way so I leave it up to him and that's that's the biggest difference there's such a peace in living by faith and having having God living in you it's huge it's huge life is so much better for people who are seeking really it comes down to faith knowing there is a god out there who is bigger than we can ever even imagine even now as a Christian I can't fathom his magnitude or his love his love is so deep for us that it's too much for my mind to comprehend but I I know that it's there and so when things get tough just relying on him that's that's all we have to do he wants us to do that that's that's all he asks of us is a relationship with him he just wants us to come to him and and to trust in him and he will never ever let us down ever I've seen it and because he is so loving realizing that the burdens that a lot of people feel don't come from him jesus said my my yoke is easy my burden is light you know I my heart breaks for people in the Mormon Church who feels so burdened by all these things that they have to do to prove themselves and then kicking themselves when they can't live up to it all it breaks my heart and you know I would just say these are man's burdens that have been placed on you they are not God's burdens God would not place a burden like that on on his children that he loves he wants us to be free in him and that's what he offers he offers freedom and it's wonderful maybe just when so it was that Easter that we decided to stop going and then the following Sunday when we should have been getting ready to go to church and and we didn't we stayed home and that was the first time that I knew what it meant to be free in Christ we were completely free and we we just we we were just free and I think I think we just opened our Bibles together and we're just studying together and that became our our Sunday you know we did that throughout the week that was not just limited to Sunday's but but yeah we just spent time in God's Word and we felt freedom it was beautiful any cases where you saw God sort of in you and maneuvering you beyond just you know when your mom died but other ways in which you look back now and say that was God actually moving this doctor that was going this direction I think if there were you know I I firmly believe now knowing God like I do I believe that he was always working in my life even if I couldn't recognize it yeah God never leaves us he's always working always working so there I can't think of any specific instances because I don't think I was open to them at the time mm-hmm so the difference of when you sin as a Mormon you're taught that when you sin God leaves you because you're not worthy of his presence anymore but now being saved being a Christian of course I still sin because I'm in my flesh you know but when I do I don't beat myself up about it there's not the guilt that just eats away at you like there was before it's okay well I know that God hasn't left me because he promised he never would he promises that in the Bible I know he hasn't left me because why would he leave when I need him the most so he's still there he still loves me the Bible says that there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus so so when you have been saved you've accepted Jesus and you've accepted His grace you're no longer condemned for the sins you do that doesn't mean that you can just go do whatever you want that's a total misconception that means that when you sin because you're still in your flesh your flesh isn't perfect and it will sin that means you're not condemned for it that means that God doesn't love you any less that means that you don't have to feel guilt about that you just oh why did I do that I'm so sorry and God says it's alright I still love you it's okay and he the the awesome thing about God is everything is spiritual with him he doesn't he doesn't regard us according to the flesh when we are saved in him so he sees what our heart wants if he's changed our hearts and made us a new creation that's what he sees he doesn't see the stuff that our sinful flesh does he sees what our changed hearts want which you know if they are truly changed it's what he wants again more freedom one of my favorite illustrations of God I think it's in Romans that he's the Potter and we're the clay if we just surrender ourselves to him he's the Potter he's gonna take us and mold us into what he wants us to be and you just let him you know because because he's God he's so amazing in the same chapter says what right has the whoever to say why have you made me this way this is our our all-powerful Almighty God and all loving God who has a purpose for everything and what right do we have to say why have you made me this way you know he he brings everything to fruition and it's time and he will complete the work that he began in us and you need to just let him you need to let it go and let him do his work before I had my born-again experience I was that person on the road that was swerving in and out of cars and beep and you you're not going fast enough and you know I had road rage so then after I had become born-again after God had changed my heart and I I'm out driving and I'm realizing oh I'm not doing that anymore I'm not speeding I'm actually the one that slow on the road so it's little changes like that that that really aren't little they're huge they're huge and who a person is and I'm a completely different person now than I used to be and praise God for it yeah that's the evidence if you've been in a car with me when I was Mormon as opposed to now you can see the difference I don't have the rage anymore oh you cannot do it yourself no you can't at best do a small amount of behavior modification about changing the heart you can't change your heart as hard as you may try you cannot change your heart

Channel: Sacred Groves

Views: 10,977

Rating: 4.8974357 out of 5

Keywords: adams road, adam's road, sarah dennis, stefan dennis, sacred groves

Id: R4ZNDrUA8-0

Length: 55min 21sec (3321 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 29 2014