Matt Wilder Interview (uncut)

I guess at first sight got your LDS experience what was a like growing up in the LDS okay growing up in the LDS Church was how that's good and it's bad things I remember always definitely feeling like what I did was inadequate that I was never measuring up to what what the expectations were what the laws and commandments of the church was and I was always falling short but it was it was not able to feel the love and mercy and grace of Christ that would have enabled me to live in the Spirit of God I felt like I was I was trying to overcome living in the mindset of this world but it seemed like the the church was kind of in this worldly mindset everything was was the letter of the law lest the spirit of the law and that that's kind of the background I I was growing up with it was it was hard for me too it was big for me to be viewed as righteous on the outside because so much weight was put on you know how you how were you viewed by other people I wanted to be viewed as righteous and so I'd put on a facade I think I focused too much on trying to cleanse the outside before I had allowed Jesus to cleanse my heart I allowed him into my heart allowed him to cleanse the inside so I mean so you're you're pretty well aware then of this struggle between what we put on the outside and what's really going on on the inside sure did you feel like you were sort of the only one that's going through that I mean you're probably surrounded by people who had all these spit polished certain images yeah you're thinking well I want to be like that but not realizing that they're probably doing the exact same thing and right you were I think everyone to certainly agree is wallowing in their own hypocrisy and and but everyone was on of each other's sad state and and I think to overcome this state your your taught that you you seek out your church authorities you seek them out and there they're the ones that can heal you from your problems or the ones that can take care of that and so you kind of seeking out this this intercessory man to solve everything when when you don't realize that for those who turn to the Lord the veil is lifted and and he's there for you and so I think I too was focusing too much on you know relying on confessing to a man or a lying on and my authority figure to to be you know how he saw me in and how I how I was viewed by him was was what cleansed me where I didn't open my heart to the Lord yeah so what I mean in terms of just your general feeling about living life as an LDS person did you did you feel like you're under stress a lot did you feel happy did you feel I mean I realize it's a great thing what yeah I would say well the Word of God describes you know that peace that is beyond understanding it comes from the Holy Spirit when you're truly living in the Spirit of God and you're born of God over all I can said not experience that that peace is an LDS person I I've heard wise and vocalize that I did on the outside but on the inside again it wasn't there I may have thought it was until I realized what it was to have Jesus Christ and then I knew that I had been missing out well what what kind of got you going on the path that that what were you looking for I mean or were you even aware that you were looking for something you know to be honest I wasn't aware that I was looking for something I thought I thought I had how do I needed I thought you know the the mode of you know just following the religion the Mormon or was all I needed and that make it through this I'm gonna I'm gonna make it into a great afterlife and I was deceived I was clothed in deceit I was I was my eyes were blinded to the truth and I wasn't seeking the truth I wasn't I wasn't seeking because I thought I had it but and the grace Lord Jesus Christ and in His mercy he he you know throughout many times in my life soon presenting the biblical view of truth that the Bible is the the undefiled Word of God and and and many Christians had witnessed to me I would say many but as a missionary in Denmark there were a few times Christians witnessed to me and another Christian witnessed to me and his name is Micah he's actually my brother I didn't know he was a Christian at the time but he he was a born-again Christian and he his witness brought back to memory some of those witnesses other Christians that had and and because of the mercy of Jesus Christ and His grace I for some reason not of my own doing but I I did not outright reject what I heard and I gave it some thought I gave it time to gave the seed time to grow in my heart and began to examine examine those claims and the Word of God in the Bible so what were some of the things that started planting those seeds along the way yeah along the way well like I said it's like there's a shelf of things as a Mormon maybe I'll put it this way there's a shelf of things that you kind of put up on the shelf and and it's counted you counted as just having faith these things start to add out the Shelf gets heavier and then when someone witnesses to you the Word of God and you begin to feel the weight of that shelf it eventually breaks and one of one of the things that Micah witnessed to me that was so powerful was he apparently had had a had a revelation from from the Word of God about he finally saw the book of Hebrews through the the eyes of God and he understood what what it really meant that the law was fulfilled in Christ and and the Christ became a high priest and and I always always was kind of confused because Jesus talks about you know you can't put a new wine into old wineskins because then though the old wide skids already stretched out to its max capacity it'll burst and so I'm you know applying that to the LDS Church church is such a mixture of old wall ideas or of the Old Covenant and of the New Covenant and and and I did have a lot of questions of how those two mixed together you know what was the clear line between the two and then on in addition to that there were just some plain things I didn't understand that didn't seem to come from either the Old Covenant or the New Covenant but they're just kind of in their religion and so so you know I'll go into little specifics in a little later in a minute why guess I can start I guess the first red flag for me was the first time I was allowed to they call have your endowment stake it out in the Mormon temple and and I went to that that um ceremony and my parents were with me and we got to the end of it and I was to be honest I was always kind of sickened I was kind of disgusted I was in shock but what I just gotten through I felt filthy I thought I I did and I remember just sitting in this this room that's supposed to represent the kingdom of God called the Celeste room and just just wanting to just I don't know I just felt so worthless and and I have my family around me did you feel worthless because of the ceremony or did you feel worthless because of yourself in the context I would just say I had an expectation set in my mind of of something that's supposed to be godly what it would be like because um the temple is it's is taught to be sacred but it's also taught to be secret so you don't know much about it until first experience and my first because I had that expectation that this would be something spiritual and godly and to me it was something grotesque not and I remember my parents around me he wasn't that wonderful you know trying to comfort me and I was just kind of in shock I didn't want anybody to be around me and so that was that was my first experience and of course you know you kind of put those things on the shelf and you learn to deal with with it and you try to find find the good in it and so I guess that that was the first thing you know and I can come back to that later in the discussion okay so see you mean you went on a mission you return to I should talk a little bit about that what that experience is like yeah um well my mission was hard for me I went to a country that first of all is not very many Christians at all I mean even just as far as faith at all there's there's not much it's it's Denmark I went to Denmark and I remember being frustrated I I thought I had this great truth to share with people and and they didn't while having anything to do with him the only people that were remotely interested I noticed were Christians but I thought they were interested because because you know they generally wanted to join the Mormon Church but I think they were more interested in the sense that they cared about me or if they didn't they the other thing is as missionaries we come across as a Christian as Christian people we kind of we we go around and deceitfully display truths the seem closest to the Christians before we you know totally teach them you know the things that aren't and for someone who isn't in the Word of God they they can get entrapped and in a false religion like that and but I there were there are times that cushions witness to me and I just didn't have an answer because they were sharing sharing not not just what they felt but they were giving the Word of God to me you know you can't you can't you can't contend with the Word of God for a sharper than a two-edged sword and so that was that was a big thing as I noticed that that I couldn't budge Christians the people that were influenced into the LDS Church were were people who generally did not know Christ in the first place and we're looking for something more and and we thought we would convince them that we offer that something more so you to see some converts though um a few yeah a few but not many because like I said it's uh it's uh people there in general don't care about God or and I don't say this to judge anybody just from my own experience people for the most part we're not a god-fearing people they didn't even believe in God and so and when you have this desire for people but you yourself are kind of bound by the the false teachings and the untruths that you withhold we'll hold on to it's hard to be a true light that your witness and to truly be able to bring people when you're not sending them to to the real Jesus to the true word we'll talk a little bit about just kind of the day-to-day life of a missionary um the day-to-day life of a missionary is very very hard especially for for someone who lives under the law so to speak someone who perhaps has an experience the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ isn't living in this spirit you are overwhelmed and burdened by by an a nearly impossible task before you every day which includes getting up you know at 6:30 sharp you know you're taught that if you sleep in past your designated and then you lose the Spirit of God kind of thing you know that that you know in order in order to have the Spirit of God with you you have to have complete medians and so everybody's always striving for this but everybody's always falling short because there's so many requirements and and so you'd get up at 6:30 you'd study various things by yourself and you study with your companion as they call her the person you're with 24/7 and then by 9:30 in the morning you head out and you're out all day the only time that you ever had rest would be for lunch and for dinner and otherwise you're you're working and you're basically out till night I think it was 9:30 in the evening or or somewhere around that time and then you're in bed by 10:30 and and you're constantly guilted with what the fact that if you're not sharing the gospel the Mormon gospel with people you know you're you're kind of feel condemned inside because let's say you're tired and you've been witnessing to people for hours at a time and then you're then you're sitting on a bus going back to your house for lunch and then you've got that 9:00 feeling inside of you well if I don't talk to this person next on the other side of the bus then then you know I'm you know is this always this expectation that I felt I could never live up to though I tried my best and it wasn't satisfying because I found out in hindsight it wasn't really delivering God's true gospel no the expectations that you talk about were these or these mostly self-imposed or were they or were they pretty overt expectations that were imposed upon you by the leadership yeah they're these expectations weren't things that we made out there or impose they're expected by the leadership so they would actually talk about numbers and oh yeah yeah numbers numbers were important you know like like running a business sometimes it felt more like a business yeah what would you say was probably if you could kind of you know send yourself a text message to when you were serving on a mission yeah back then what would you want to tell yourself I mean obviously you know and it's hard because I know I probably would have rejected what I would say so it's hard to know what I should say that I that I might possibly listen to myself but in general I would say embrace embrace Jesus in His Word and his and accept the the Bible is his true Word which is something I had been ingrained in my life up to that point it's so ingrained it to you that you don't even trust the Bible as God's Word you only use it to prove your gospel or to argue with Christians but you don't really use the Bible as the source of truth or use it to find Jesus and um so that that's the first thing I would say is get away from those other scriptures and focus on the Bible and see what God will do with your heart and how what kinds of things that God do to you in order to move you from not trusting in the Bible to being able to trust in the Bible this is good it's a good question group um well this process actually was a was a gradual one for me because I said it was it was so engrained in me it was so hard for me to just accept the Living Word as as truth and so you know my first major understanding there I guess you could say revelation from God was that I realized I did not need to be a member of the Mormon Church in order to to receive salvation that all I needed that Jesus was in other words salvation came outside of the Mormon Church that idea of thinking it was kind of the first step for me where did that come from and that came from a few things actually a big witness to me is that I watched the movie about Martin Luther and I was seeing a lot of similarities between his struggles in the Catholic Church and and then what he was learning in the Word of God as he was reading and and what I was going through and so I come to that conclusion based on my own personal experiences and what I had read up to that point of the Word of God that you know just because you're not Mormon doesn't mean God doesn't have a place for you in heaven or in other words you don't need the Mormon authority in order to make it to heaven it's a really good movie but um but but even then you know like I said I my whole life had been ingrained and a Mormon doctors Mormon the LDS theology way of thinking and and all those scriptures it's just like separating the wheat from the shaft kind of it's being able to being able to accept the Bible as God's true word and I was really struggling with this because you know there was still a few things here there that I I'd find myself well if I didn't necessarily agree with that passage I could I could justify not trusting in God's Word here there because that's just that's just the way I was brought up now it's not and even even after I left the Mormon Church I still wasn't truly born again I still didn't truly have Jesus in my heart because I wasn't willing to accept his word or his authority I was I would accept it in pieces but it was it was really a marvelous step and it was actually not until months if not even a year so later you know from this understanding that um I don't need the Mormon Church to the understanding that the Bible you know is God's undefiled war that is his final authority it is the truth and when I came to that conclusion when when I finally opened my heart to that open my heart to accepting the word as truth God God did amazing things through me and that's when the Lord Jesus Christ actually that the day that I opened my heart to - accepting his word for what I said and I just realized that I believe everything word said I didn't have to question and I didn't have to think I just I just had that faith in the biblical word and that very next day early in the morning um I was woken up in the Lord Jesus Christ actually said he said My Kingdom is not of this world and it was the most powerful experience I cannot tell you what it feels like or what it is to hear the voice of the Good Shepherd calling me and it was it was beyond any voice that I've ever recognized in this world I mean it it shook my entire being and it was it resonated throughout my entire soul in any way when he said those words an unsurpassable joy this started to enter my heart and and all I knew to say was yes Lord I believe that's all I said and and when that happened the Lord Jesus Christ filled me with His Holy Spirit and I became a new creature in Christ Jesus and since that time I've been able to see through the eyes of the Holy Spirit who lives inside of me a whole new life and a new way of thinking as it says our minds are renewed you know we become new creatures in Christ Jesus so the word opened up to me the prophecy of Joel began to be fulfilled in me as as you know at the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came upon the believers that there are many who many incredible things happened and it says that you know your young men shall see visions your old men shall dream dreams and the Lord Jesus Christ has just opened that he has torn that veil between me and and God and I have this incredible relationship now that began because I was able to accept the word as his authority and and until I could do that until I could do that I couldn't really have a relationship with Christ because because the Lord showed me soon after again he he showed me in a dream he pointed me to John 1 or it says the word see what does it say the word was made flesh in the beginning was the word and the word was gone Lord was with God and then it goes on say that the word was made flesh and that he was the son and so just understanding the importance of that it just helped me to embrace the Bible even more knowing that that's embracing Jesus that was clear they work with the Holy Spirit one be able to move from mistrusting the Bible to trust in the money you know in that process of you know what were some of the things that were you know you mentioned that you know my kingdom is not of this world and what was so impactful when when I think back upon you know why would have Jesus of all the things to tell me why would he have said that my kingdom is not of this world and when I look back at my life my whole life was focused on a world the kingdom the establishment of bringing a worldly kingdom to people and and I didn't understand that his kingdom is not of this world and when he showed me you know his Holy Spirit and it was amazing that was I realized wow this is this is the love of God this surpasses all understanding and so and so yeah that in context of understanding that God's kingdom is not of this world you know I was taught you know this is the kingdom of God on earth but but it's not an organization you know there is no earthly kingdom it's the believers constitute the body of Christ and and and this might lead into my separate way of thinking beforehand you're talking about I was talking about things that had put up on the Shelf and one of them was that that temple experience and just understanding the difference between the kingdom the man establishes versus the kingdom that God brings forth and I had always thought like I said the first my first step was leaving the earliest church and thinking well you don't have to be Mormon to to know Jesus but so but I still never had a really a desire in my heart to witness the more because I thought they know Jesus I know Jesus I'll leave them alone they can leave me alone it'll all be good I still didn't understand the Lord you know was soon to show me that I needed a witness to Mormons because he loves them and and he was going to show me why it was I needed witness to them and there's that scripture about being in the darkness and God bringing us into the Marvis light I wasn't willing to accept that I was in the darkness I wa I liked the part about being and I wasn't until God truly brought me into his life that he opened my eyes and the veil was lifted so that I could see what what living in darkness really was and a couple things that happened was I actually asked the Lord one time know all the covenants made in that temple made with you know are they really that bad and you know it's really surprising because as a Mormon I never expect the Lord to actually answer you this kind of like well I'll have a feeling maybe and maybe that feeling discern but actually you know have a clear response from the Lord smite you Wow you could have this kind of relationship of God it's it's really incredible but they you know he basically told me that those covenants made in the temple are not of him nor are they made with him and so that made me start thinking well okay and then and then the further that later on I had another experience where I had been pondering a lot about about the temple about the Mormon rituals and things and and and then during this time of thinking about that the Lord showed me a vision of an LDS temple but it was so different than the the kind of the idea I had as a Mormon he showed it to me through the eyes of the Holy Spirit and helped me to see to perceive this these actions and what goes on there and just this remote of religion this all this from how God perceives it not from how I viewed it as a Mormon and I realized that it was it was disgusting it was filthy in his eyes and I mean there's there's the Bible talks about you know things being as the same guy synagogue of Satan and and that's the only word that came to me I can't even express with words what I was showing but it was so so bad was just it was like God taking the temple and placing it in the pits of Hell and and just kind of having my veil lifted to see what it really was and and he also gave me a scripture that had to do with this a couple scriptures in Proverbs and one was proverbs 14:12 and it says or 14 yes well there is a way that seems right to a man but it's end is the way to death and another scripture speaking of the way of folly or speaking of the woman as as the kind of the the harlot woman and it says the woman folly is loud she is seductive and knows nothing she sits at the door of her house she takes a seat on the highest places of the town calling to those who passed by who were going straight on the way whoever is simple let him turn in here into him who acts sense she says stolen water is sweet and bread eaten and secret is pleasant but he does not know that the dead are there and then her guests are in the depths of Sheol and that's really what the Lord was opening my eyes to and when I when I received this revelation from God I wept bitterly I wept first of all because I had been a part of something that was so wrong there so opposing to God's Word and it was so filthy in the eyes of God and then the secondly I wept for all the people that I loved that were still apart of this and were were one with this church with this harlot with this motive religion because the Word of God says that if you're you know it says that if you're joined to the harlot you're one with the heartland if you're one with you know you can't be one with God and man we can be one with the devil and one with Christ at the same time and that's kind of what God was showing me and and I really thought hard about this and when I had this powerful impacting experience or the Holy Spirit you know I thought well if at the temple really is you know that bad you know it's really opposes God that much surely His Word would say so because you know John first John I think chapter 4 says that you know you got to test the spirit and so what I received it needed to be weighed against the Word of God and I showed you a couple scriptures there but but as I got into it I started to realize so much of the gospel of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints when the Mormon gospel opposes God's Word and I can just focus really quickly just err on just on the temple itself now the idea of the temple itself once once I understood Hebrews just the mere existence of of the temple as a as a it's a building built by hands the the house God's Spirit is opposed to understanding that we are God's temple and his spirit lives in us on that and of itself is you know opposes God's Word but um for example in Matthew 21:12 you know Jesus overturns the money changers who were at the temple because they were buying and selling there and in the temple there's a cash register were for those who who don't haven't paid for bought their own temple clothes they can rent for money and there's a cash register in the temple so there's one example of poses the Word of God um in Matthew 10 26 to 27 the Word of God says what I tell you in the dark say in the light and what you hear whispered proclaim on the housetops but what you are told in in the LDS temples and what you hear whispered you're told not to proclaim on the housetops but you can always speak about in that actual dark place another one is that I already mentioned earlier was just the example of putting new wine new wines and the old wine skins this the example of trying to combine aspects of the Old Covenant being the physical temple physical ordinances and applying that to God's new covenant is as opposed as God's Word and as Jesus so beautifully explaining that and that metaphor in Matthew 24 24 through 26 Jesus warns against false Christ's and false prophets and he's even so specific to say that if they say he is in your inner rooms and her chambers do not believe and and you know I had and being yeah and being a missionary you know and reading all these apostles or apostles the Mormon Church their witnesses to the truth they speak of having Jesus Christ physically appearing to them in these inner rooms in these inner chambers in the temple and that's kind of the that's the idea that goes around is that the prophet of the church and and these apostles in the Mormon Church you know I visited personally by Jesus Christ in these buildings made by hands and again there's an example with Jesus Christ so specifically than ones against that not not to believe it one thing that that is highly encouraged and the Mormon religion is to seek out a relationship with their ancestors to learn as much as you can about them to do as much technology work as you can so that you can be a means to saving their souls and and here it says in Deuteronomy 8 and 11 to anyone who consults with the dead is detestable to the Lord and Jesus confirms that in the New Testament by saying leave the dead to bury the dead and in Titus 3:9 it says genealogies are unprofitable and worthless to avoid them just to explain that the Mormons actually do do this I I was in a in a priesthood class maybe I was in a class and they had a special guest speaker a family history expert who went around two wards in in the Mormon Church and shared her testimony of how temple work has blessed her life and and she talked because before you can have the temple work done for somebody which is baptisms for the dead and all these other things they they need you know certain specific information about that dead ancestor which you can often find at the gravestone which is so ironic you going to the grave of people when it says the let the dead bury the dead um but anyway this lady sought out her that ancestors and and saw asked for guidance and apparently her dead you know great-great so-and-so appeared during it her and spoke to him spoke to this person and led her to the grave of this man she was looking for literally led her to the grave and then this was this wonderful testimony that um we can have this wish I was on my mission and I remember there was this lady who had been she said she had her dead ancestors had appeared to her and told her that their work needed to be done in the temple and um and again if you read you know you're not supposed to have anything to do with the dead that's what the Word of God says and you know you're not you're not really talking to the dead you're deceived it's it's the lying spirits that are there that you're allowing yourself to be a part with them and you know to make this even clearer I was in a I was in a LDS class and you actually taught from from the prophets they talked about an experience that they had in the 1800s where supposedly the founding fathers of the Constitution appeared in one of the temples to some of the LDS church leaders and said that you needed to do the work form again so so you're getting this example from the highest levels of the church isn't just people in the churches it's the leaders who are and you'll Brigham Young converse with Joseph Smith as a dead man you know it has Testament like talking accounts to this again that directly opposes the Word of God anyone who consults with the dead is detestable to the Lord another thing Matthew 534 says do not take an oath at all you the whole thing you do with the temple is you you're taking all kinds of votes you're you're promising to do certain things and if you don't for example there's an oath you take and and then the devil speaks you know it's kind of interesting the devil's more of the star in the temple than Jesus's but he speaks and he he says if you don't live up to every one of these covenants you made a day and one of the covenants is so impossible to live up to it's like give all of your time all of your talents all energy all of your money to the church and Jesus Christ the lottery sings to the building of the kingdom of God on earth again the idea the kingdom of God on earth and and then and then the devil says if you don't live up to every single one of these things which is impossible live up to then you're in his power and it and then as a member of the church you just sit there and you take your okay okay I agree and you know as a Christian once I understood that of course I repeat that oath and the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ has taken all those those things away but but it's really sad because again it directly opposes the Word of God another another big thing Ephesians 2:15 speaking of the law of commandments and ordinances that the Jews did that was a foreshadowing of Christ eternal sacrifice on the cross and yet it says in Ephesians 2:15 that those things were abolished and yeah just takes that idea they're being ordinal ordinances that somehow you know are saving us and applies into the temple you know that's again that's opposing the Word of God matthew 27:5 says that the veil in the temple was torn again if you were actually in the LDS temple you notice there's a huge veil and it's not porn and it builds you between you and God and and irony of that too is going entering you know especially from what the Lord showed me you know that that's not really represent does the temple doesn't really represent God's God's kingdom or heaven it represents something else no one there's this veil in between you and you don't understand what it is you're actually seeking for because the devil you know he likes to deceive and he he fails thinks so that people fall into traps and because if I think if people knew where they were headed they would never ever go where they're going another thing is eternal marriage from a man to a woman but but the whole idea in the Bible for example in revelation 19:7 and throughout the entire Bible as the idea that our eternal marriage is to Christ we are the bride and this whole idea that we were eternally married to each other and that we're guys you know we're made to worship God forever but I would be to be God in place of God or be exalted as God so so that's another thing that opposes the Word of God that has to do with temples acts 748 you know I another interesting I think another reason why temples was such a big part of my testimony is it's kind of because when I was on a mission in Denmark a temple was dedicated there and so the last year my mission was so focused on temples and this whole thing and so because that was such a big part of my life it is a big part of my life now to to reveal to people who I love you know the truth of how the whole idea of the temple and and the priesthood that they hold opposes the Word of God because in acts 7 48a says the Most High doesn't live in houses made by men again you the places we're not President Gordon B Inc Lee came for the dedication and he consecrated that house is basically where the the Lord spirit would dwell kind of thing is this again the supposing idea as opposed to first Corinthians 3:16 that we are God's temple in a spirit dwells in us Hebrews 4:13 says that we are all naked before God yet and the LVS tenth of ceremony we we try to cover ourselves in thick leaves we are actually told by the devil to put on thick leaves the the deceptively show that we're bringing forth fruit because there's lots of leaves but there's no fruit and this is likewise as Jesus approached the fig tree in the Bible and how a lot of green leaves appearing to be fruitful and when he saw that there was no fruit coming from that he cursed the featuring that's because no no fruit can come from a bad tree and and that's my testimony is that that if you're joined if you're one with the the LDS gospel and its teachings and and it's you know this is another gospel another Jesus you you cannot bring forth the true fruits of the Christian and it's just there's just so much Corinthians 1st Corinthians 11 says that men are not supposed to cover their head when pray and the temples and then have on their head you covered all their brain and so you know the reason to me bringing these things up is is to show you how the Word of God in so many ways it's not just one scripture here that all that can be interpreted differently here this is the Word of God the end I said the devil can disguise himself as an angel of light that that you know an angel of light sits as the did the emblem on all temples versus the cross which which it says in the Word of God that the atonement took place on the cross Jesus Christ the Lord Jesus Christ bore the sins of the world bodily while he hung on the cross and so yeah that's that would be my witness that the Lord showed me through the Holy Spirit you know but this gospel is not of him and then he showed me in his word afterwards how that what he showed me through his spirit how it confirms and is confirmed in the word I don't know I mean yeah that's great yeah that's great well you know you talked about fruit of the things as well why your fruits you shall know them and we're they're referring to all the wonderful fruit right they see coming out of the LDS Church how would you answer that well the first thing I would say is understanding what bearing fruit truly is as a Christian right if you're not dispersing the true Word of God and you're leading people to another Jesus another God that is a sour fruit and no matter what good you do as far as you can feed people the feed clothe the poor but if you're not feeding them spiritually if you're not clothing them in the grace of Jesus Christ by giving them the knowledge of the truth then then you're not really truly bearing fruit and the whole purpose of of all the supposed good works that a Christian ought to do isn't to do good works to be seen by men but but the reason that we do good things for other people as as we use those things to glorify our Heavenly Father to point them to the Lord Jesus Christ because without the Lord Jesus Christ without his a word abiding in you there is no good work and the work is to believe in the son Jesus Christ and if what your religion does takes people away from the Lord Jesus Christ then there is no physical work that you can do that that is worth anything because the only thing that matters is that people believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and be safe well what you know as you were leaving warm isn't coming into Christianity what were some of the misconceptions and false notions that you had about biblical Christianity that you had overcome and what one of the things that I always held on to as a Mormon was Christians they they use their gospel as an example to live for sin basically I have this this gospel with all these specific laws and and I obey all then therefore I'm justified before God while you Christians you you you rely on the mercy and grace of Lord Jesus Christ and you live percent that's what I thought what I understood is um first of all that you can't truly live a life in the spirit without the Lord Jesus Christ and I didn't realize that it was actually Christians who who had the Lord Jesus Christ and it was them who were actually living in the spirit not all Christians but but those who who truly receive Jesus and their hearts live in the spirit and on the flesh and so so my misconception was that was they they basically perverted the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ in the sensuality and all these things but but a true Christian according to the Word of God and what I learned is the case with majority Christians I met as as as they live the law of Christ the law is written on their hearts and the mine but they most importantly they were lying not on their works to justify them but on the Lord Jesus Christ and that that's what allows them to go to heaven but as a result of of their belief in Jesus Christ they they live those things that a Christian are required to do so the change actually comes because of their relationship arised not because I'm trying to pull themselves exactly so can I compare and contrast for your your life now and your life before what what are some of the most important changes obviously your change of salvation you know and know that Jesus as your Savior but but in terms of some of the ways that people what people are seeing in you what what are some of the most compelling changes that experience Jesus well for me like I said one of the main things when you become born again as as you have a completely new mind set your mind is renewed and and that makes me think of a specific scripture here give me a second in Matthew and when the Lord Jesus Christ was delivering a message on the Sermon on the Mount and he talks about therefore I tell you do not be anxious about your life what you will eat or what you will drink nor about your body what you will put on is not life more than food and the body more than clothing look at the birds of the air they neither sow nor reap nor gather in the Bard's barns yet your heavenly Father feeds them are you not more value than they and it goes on you know this this whole mindset that I'm living by faith yes I used to be so concerned with doing all I could do to be prepared doing my part and not not understanding never truly relying on the Lord Jesus Christ and living living day to day without fear knowing that the Lord would provide and knowing that if I seek his kingdom but his kingdom first you know everything I need will be there and and not setting my heart on the riches of this world the treasure to this world I set my heart on wanting to be I wanted to be a professor of music I was very into education and I of worldly knowledge and wisdom and you know I I still rehearse by rehearse as a musician for the glory of God I'm using my my gets to glorify God but before I was I was wanting to perfect myself as a musician so not for God's glory but just just for my own delight for my own selfish pursuits and my goal was was was to be professor you know it would be this great pianist and you know that was my focus that was my life that's what a Slee slept and drink and having this new mindset that did those things pass away they rust they the only thing that matters is is the things of the kingdom of God and then being able to put those first and and being you know just without mindset then it's so easy to to just give up things when the Lord asks you to give them up you know it says a seed cannot truly grow until it first dies you know till it dies and falls to the ground and then it can grow and until I was willing to die to the my passions and things of this world now I can truly bring forth the fruits of the Christian I truly couldn't sprout in the Lord Jesus Christ you know I had to give up you know the Lord asked it of me that I give up my give up my scholarship give up my education give up my life aspiration and that sense and the pride of being you know an educated person so to speak in and there's so many other things that the Lord can ask of us but but I guess having that mindset being willing to just to die to the Lord so he can live in me oh yeah it's worth it because this world means nothing kind of work matters is the word this Christ we have him we have everything forever but you have a audience with say a solid tbm their their firm in their faith their unwavering in their their belief in Mormonism what would you want to communicate just I I too is in the position of the many LDS people who are so strong in their faith of the Mormon Church and what it teaches and not only do they do they believe in it but they they have a spiritual witness of this and I can I can tell you I I too had a spiritual witness and but the thing that the Lord has taught me is that just because you have a spiritual witness does not mean that it's the truth it says in Jeremiah that the heart is deceiving you know above all other things but set the standard for testing truth cannot just be the spirits we listen to and receive but it has to be the Word of God as well and I because I had received things that were not true and had received the witness of those things from from deceitful spirits I was allowing myself to be deceived and that's my witnesses just because you think that you have a strong spiritual witness it does not mean that you are not deceived and and and it also says in the Word of God that for those who believe the lie God send strong delusion and the only the only test that we can truly be sure of is the word of God and and if what you believe in does not align with his word then you've received a false witness of the truth because it says truly in the Word of God for example in second Corinthians 2nd Corinthians chapter 11 we're sorry there it says that but I'm afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ first someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed or if you receive a different spirit and the one you received or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted you put up with a relly enough and what and this is Paul speaking of what I do I will continue to do in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that under booths admission they work on the same terms as we do for such the men are false apostles deceitful working themselves as apostles of Christ no wonder for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light so it is no surprise his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness some say just because you you you think that you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ doesn't mean that you aren't deceit because you have to understand that it says here that there is another Jesus that can be proclaimed there and there are false apostles out there and I'm even saying themself can disguise himself as an angel of light and so you have to be aware that um look you believe pass the line with what the true apostles the Twelve Apostles of God called to preach his gospel once a fraud is already here it's already here it's in the Word of God and in Galatians you read but even if we speaking of the Apostles or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary the one that we've already preached you let him be accursed as we have said before and he says it again so now I say again if anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received let him be accursed even even the prophet Gordon D Hinckley when he was alive he admitted that the gospel they preached is not the gospel that is that the New Testament talks about I mean it's blatant and I just beg if you received the Lord Jesus Christ receive his word because that's how you will find the word you and the living word which is the Bible good words and what would you say to somebody what kind of words of encouragement would you get somebody who say is a Mormon that they're they're definitely wrestling with the understanding something's wrong yeah they're kind of embarking on this journey of starting to look outside of the traditional Mormon box for answers what would you what would you say to somebody in that position yeah just uh see I just thought of Scripture well anyway for people who are wrestling who who know there's something wrong with with the oldest church but they're just it's just kind of either afraid to leave or they're content where they are or maybe they have the mindset that I used to have well it doesn't matter if you're Mormon or if you're Christian you know just know it's all the same God it's all good again my warning would be that um that if you're joined one with the harlot you cannot be one with Christ you have to you can't serve both God in them and you can't be a part of something that opposes the true authority of God and his true Word and at the same time be be considered Christ's um another thing I would say as as encouragement um the Lord Jesus Christ asked that his disciples be willing to take up their cross and and then bear the cross and sometimes the cross might be to to leave to be willing to leave family or friends or are or have that relationship and Trust ruined for a time because for the sake of the Lord Jesus Christ knowing that that being willing to give up things like that for Jesus Christ far surpasses the the the other reason or the other motive it should be not to do that this the the blessings from doing that are are incredible oh yes yes you know it's it's a scary thing but but I'll tell you what there's nothing more rewarding than the knowing the Lord Jesus Christ and living in his spirit anything else I don't think so I think I covered come here a lot last words of their on your heart to share yeah I guess the last thing I would say is that the the reason I'm sharing this with with with the LDS people of Mormons is because I truly love you guys I truly love you and and if I didn't love if I didn't care for you I wouldn't take the time to do this um I really desired the best for you and I and I I truly believe that um that the Word of God is the answer and that that that if you just open the Word of God and you forget about everything else does open the Bible start in the New Testament and read through New Testament did I really believe God can come work in your heart and and can fill that empty hole that you may have in your life in your religion and just I haven't occur to me what what kind of advice would you give to Christians who may have a woman loved one or friend or something that they want to reach out what you know from your own experience and from your experiences with others what would you say to somebody how do I react right okay my advice I would have for Christian how do you reach your friend the number one thing you can do is pray and fast I mean even fasting but but prayer for for them because them truly it's it's not us who can who can change them and work in their lives but it's the Lord and it also says that the prayer of the righteous you know it's heard in heaven and can really have you know make a difference and we have to understand that we're we we are the children of God and as they're sort of God we have that right to to ask and and if we ask in faith you know hoping that we can receive and hopefully we can receive those things that we asked for but just to pray for those people is first of all and then when we when we're speaking with and face-to-face to to try to do things with patience and love you know and there are times for exhorting people and doing it and warning them and just have to remember to do it and in the ways of the Lord she just cries to set forth in his word which is in love and patience very good great that's great all right

Channel: Sacred Groves

Views: 9,671

Rating: 4.7704916 out of 5

Keywords: mormon, mormonism, lds, christian, christianity, bible, temples, adams, road, matt, wilder

Id: 3wZ1jI3Z4qE

Length: 57min 19sec (3439 seconds)

Published: Sun Jan 23 2011