Juno: BUSTED!

Forbes the holy grail of consumer refrigeration tnw is sorcery each sides heats the Angie toaster get ready to rethink the coolest appliance in your kitchen what's that it's like a microwave but fuh cold that's incredible impossible of course but totally incredible and the ideas that's almost like a microwave for cooling so that eventually you could take something cool it down and enjoy it and not have to have a standard refrigerator maybe making it more environmentally friendly this thing is actually a countertop appliance that rapidly cools your beverage faster than you can say I need a drink CNET it's ice cold it has no ice Digital Trends there's no chemicals or environmentally harmful refrigerants involved you get our cold shrink or worry free I mean surely no one's get a fool for this right it's raised about $200,000 even dumber thing is I proposed almost exactly this the self cooling water bottle as a spoof about three years ago so let's do it let's make the world's first self calling water bottle because you know what would be really great on those hot days you know when there's lots of Sun if there was a way you could magically turn that hot day into a cold drink but again and again it's like a reverse microwave and it's totally amazing and yes I mean really really impossible the first thing you could understand is what makes something hot or cold well everything that you see is basically made up of atoms those atoms and molecules basically have a speed and that speed is essentially their temperature so if you take some air and look at it it looks like this lots of molecules moving around bumping into one another and they have a sort of average speed which essentially equates to its temperature so if I heat it up what you see is those molecules on average are moving faster and if I call it down there on average moving slower that's all there is to temperature so if you want to heat things up you've gotta make the molecules go faster somehow and there's only a few ways that you can actually do that you can either interact with the system somehow by you say for instance pulling it in contact with some fast-moving molecules and those actually impact on the gas molecules and make them move faster so this is essentially what you're killing with a kettle you know you've got a heating element and you run electricity through which makes the atoms vibrate faster and when those hit the water molecules they transfer some of that energy across and boom the water heats up alternatively you can shine light on the object and if that light is absorbed by the object then that makes the atoms move faster so if you're doing this with water of course visible light is a very poor choice because water is pretty transparent to visible light that's not true however for the infrared water absorbs pretty much everything there so very quick description on the thermal cameras they basically turn heat into images and so I can actually the colder it is the darker it appears so the tip of my finger there who's been dipped in water at some point is at 20 degrees whereas the palm of my hand here is in nearly 30 degrees Celsius and the computer of obviously it's less warmer and other parts of the screen which are fairly reflective you know they're not giving true temperatures to walls probably giving it true temperature if I scroll over to the wall you'll see it's about eighteen and a half degrees films I'm down here you've got the infrared camera and in front of it we've got some plastic cups polyethylene and the reason I know that play earthling or one of the reasons is polyethylene is kind of transparent to the infrared all right so if I put my fingers behind here you'll actually be able to see my fingers through the player plane or took my finger inside you know actually be able to say you know through polyethylene and that was actually true even if the plea ethylene is day in it like this one does so it's opaque to visible light but you can actually see through it in the infrared and eye goes all the way around to the back you can still see through it now the reason we're not using class here is because glass is completely opaque to the infrared so if I stick my finger on the inside there I put my fingers on the inside you will say absolutely nothing so that's be a bit more brave about this and this is just carbon Rotter in the inanimate carbon rod which I'm just gonna heat up a little this is just so it shows up a little better on me on the infrared so there we go there's a nice glowy red thing for sticking inside the glass it completely vanishes right so this is equivalent to black for the infrared I do this again with you know yeah she said see it stray through now with water if I were to take this pouring water over a computer what can possibly go wrong okay so now I'm gonna get cut which I can see through and then just gonna pour some water in there okay and water is completely oh it is just completely black in the infrared okay so I've changed it for a bowl of water and you'll see that if I get my nice warm finger yes i immerse it into the water my finger basically vasis almost immediately so water it's essentially blank and just so we clear what I mean when I say that it's black and I mean it's black like it's cold on this visual representation because if I take some warm water and I pour this in here oops you will see that the water is nice and bright and it's just we clear the range of the camera there a little it's make yeah oh yeah okay so now you'll see again that my fingers will basically vanish instantly when they go into this so what I say when I I mean that it's black I mean that it basically absorbs all the light that falls onto it in visual terms it's like this so this is what water looks like in the infrared it absorbs everything that falls onto it so if you shine infrared light onto water it absorbs all of it and if you shine microwaves on water it'll absorb all of those too so this is just a fancy way of getting energy into the water of speeding up the water molecules of heating up the water so boom that's all microwaves do and the more light you should I'm not object the more you're gonna heat up the water thingies yeah can't do that for cooling now sure I can put the glass in contact with something cool so here I've got some water and it's actually radiating energy out into the environment because it's hotter than the environment and that's in the infrared which is why you can only really see it with a thermal camera so I can either wait for it ready for that to cool down I'm not eternity but a very long time for it to cool down alternatively I can just put it in contact with something cool like say for instance piece of ice and instantly you will see that you know when the hot water molecules collide with the ice molecules they slow down they cool down it cools down the water but it's a fairly slow process however if I put a wish in there do you know how to speed up this process a little what you'll find is it'll actually speed up the process of the cooldown hugely and you know my ice is gone however it will put a bigger piece in there we'll probably get a more dramatic effect okay so so this is by far the quickest way to ice it cool down drink is to put a big chunk of ice in it unless you see is actually fairly effective you know in taking water from what was nice to fairly chilly I mean that water is now down to 16 degrees 1514 Maimon trying here bear in mind 1211 10 right boom that's almost as effective as this super efficient caller in a few seconds you see with the microwave if you want to heat it up faster it simply you just shine more light on it however you can't do that with cooling because the blackbody radiation only depends on the temperature of the object this is why there is no such thing as a reverse microwave because you got something like negative energy light on something because there's no such thing as negative energy light so how can it be like a microwave for cooling well maybe it's just a faster way of cooling things no I know like calling say an ice bucket a reverse microwave I mean this can't just be like a door fried ice bucket an electric ice bucket a $300 ice bucket so you remember any showed there's only one sensible way to rapidly cool down a hot object and that's to get the fast-moving molecules of the hot object to collide with slower moving objects well that's basically what an ice bucket is doing so cold water molecules are slowing down the can molecules the atoms that make up the can which are in turn slowing down the molecules in the drink making it cooler now there's a problem here mixing if you've just gotta wait for the molecules to bump into one another the slow molecules to bump into the fast ones or vice versa well all of this is happening on a Lindt scale of a billionth of a meter or so so it takes a long time for that to go all the way through the liquid by conduction now sure you'll get some modest convective movements here but what would really help is if you're agitated the bottle somehow it's basically this versus of this now oddly enough that's already being invented in place it can like that how's the lid this process should take one minute you basically were to be the bottle or can while pumping water from an ice bucket reservoir over the drink again hardly a reverse microwave it it's a motorized ice bucket and those are available for about $70 how many times have you had a guest bring over a bottle of wine without having a way to quickly chill it we knew we could solve this problem things one sent me this the video of the elite tech reporter of the BBC being awestruck by this amazing glorified ice bucket this machine is the opposite of a microwave it's gonna cool down things this is just a prototype will hold exactly one can of drink at the moment and has started to spin around in here how much energy is this going to use to cool down one can of drink so vary from like a hungry wasps like after two I'm here at CES 2020 with a thermoelectric beverage cooler yes a thermoelectric beverage cooler Wow 2020 CES the best of the technology in the world and he's got a thermoelectric drinks cooler you know what I lose Peltier effect devices where you pass electricity through it and one side gets hot and one side gets cold I wonder what 2017 Thunderfoot has to say about that as you suggested or my twitter feed you know because it's all fully water bottles crazy because it needs a vast amount of energy cooling water down doesn't take so much energy so why not make a self cooling water bottle out here device so now we have a soft cooling water bottle let's see if it works yeah so what you got there is TV a thermal camera the display from the thermal camera in the background now the past play down here and you've got the bottle with water the he's in topology the wire fan and write so the moment it's about 20 degrees or something is we're gonna turn on the power this boom yeah oh yeah that's more like it okay so instantly yeah I can see that it's gotten cold here now and it's getting hot here so it's the same deal as I've had previously the heatsink you'll see is actually very reflective in the infrared no that's the metal so what I've done this I put some tape on this side and the tape isn't reflective in the infrared and it just shows up the real temperature of the heat sink so instantly that's up at about 30 degrees to stay here meanwhile you see this you see the water the cold water running down the side of the bottle 15 degrees were the park of the water is at about 20 the water Wallis's this is burning up thirsty of the bridge that's not entirely unsurprising we're pulling in four to five amps at 12 volts which means this thing's sucking up easily 50 watts of power it's actually quite a lot [Music] 20 minutes down to 10 degrees that's actually pretty chilly 10 degrees of the bottom 12 at the top and now for the ultimate test hmm nice cool water I'm here at CES 2020 with a thermoelectric beverage cooler yes a thermoelectric beverage cooler now at the time I did actually matter these words and yeah there might even be some legitimate uses for this like rapidly cooling wine to the right temperature we don't make it super awkward sings three years later Juno comes up with the exact same idea so did they steal my idea well nope firstly the idea of using Peltier effect devices for cooling is decades old and they have always suffered from numerous problems the first is the Polti eight devices tend to be composed of massive heat sinks and fans you said it's a space efficient this is obviously very big prototype because there's a huge heat sink in the back here at least once they get up to any sensible size the small ones tend to be more manageable but they lack that let's just get rid of the heat generated so one of the first reasons people don't like these things is because of the fan noise now on their IndieGoGo page you'll find there is ZERO mention have this thing containing any liquids you know who essentially big and make a nice nice bucket but if you go to the frequently asked questions page just about the bit that says no refunds once the campaign is ended you'll see that it does say that it uses water as a heat transfer agent and seeing as we know the water freezes at zero degrees Celsius you know that this thing will be less efficient than the motorized ice bucket because if he does go down to that sort of temperature their water will start to freeze so it can at best match a machine like this junot is the world's fastest most innovative rapid beverage chiller that will change the way you think about drinks they also make a point of saying that he doesn't use any chemicals that are harmful to the environment because we are using the latest in thermoelectric innovation Juno works without using environmentally harmful chemicals or traditional refrigerants assuring in a new era of cooling technology sorry it's not going to be an environmentally friendly sales pitch there allow me to educate your son actually let's do this rhetorically why do you think that all sensible sized fridges are compressor driven rather than using Peltier effect devices I'll give you a clue it's because compressor driven fridges a massively more energy efficient than Peltier fake devices so we built the latest technology in thermoelectric cooling into Juno so let's add a reality check to this would you like to cool something and have it take four times as much energy as a conventional cooler why not consider our great new electric ice bucket water chiller but wait I hear you ask can't I get this thing to consume more power needlessly why yes you can you can leave this device on 24 hours a day seven days a week with its always-on matrix technology Juno is ready to kill whenever you are and not of course with the installation that you would get on a a rated energy-efficient fridge but with skinny scrolling insulation with all the extra power consumption that that entails just is you could be bothered away a few minutes by putting your drinks in the fridge oh I've got good news for you but $300 we can give you that product no refunds excellent question why do you want to keep other drink in the fridge and consume electricity we are not using it so you can actually keep all those drinks and the room temperature and cool it we you need it's a space efficient energy efficient amazing every word of what you just said was wrong further the thing is full of water the whole time standing water which sooner or later will start to grow things yeah just the sort of thing the to annoy immerse your drink tin before drinking them alternatively if you don't run it 24 hours a day you know sucking up all that needless power then it will take as long to cool down as just putting your bottle of wine in the fridge or an ice bucket but what about all those rave reviews well oddly enough if you scroll down through the comments on some of those articles this expert reporting by the mainstream technical media on these reverse microwaves you get comments like this thermoelectric coolers are effective but really inefficient using a commercial calculator for a TC efficiency I show that a Peltier cooling module to cool 60 degree beverage 232 at a rate of one liter per minute will use over one one thousand seven hundred watts of power at 230 volts they also need to dissipate all of the heat being removed somewhere so lightly the ambient temperature about the device is liked of rise pretty sharply not a huge deal in a commercial location but on a home it's going to drive up the a/c costs considerably I've been playing with pal tears for about twenty years they're incredibly inefficient it's a neat idea and one that's been done before and will provide decent enough results but the trade-off is a costly device with massive waste heat which serves at best a dubious niche for smaller drinks whiskey stones are a thing for larger ones like for wine bottles a cheaper option is planning to have a chill already and maybe the prize for the best comment goes to dr. Emilio Gizmodo almonds are environmentally evil but I love my Peltier cooler because I forgot to put a bottle of wine in the fridge you'll also find there many of these articles references this is the that amazed company that invented the SmartWatch that never needed charging that charged entirely from your own body heat unless of course it was summer in which case it would just stop charging but other than that it would never need charging now some time ago Dave from eevblog went through this and basically showed that the whole thing was just a gimmick before you go and say I've got some sort of calculation wrong there they have basically admitted that there's nothing wrong my calculations I did these on the forum previously they were involved in discussions I asked them to provide their data they wouldn't do it they said they'd provide it to me privately come on give me a break write the numbers add up they have confirmed them and well you might as well just stick a bloody battery in the think it's a thermoelectric generator gimmick buzz I mean this is pretty basic stuff that anyone can do and these guys know it they know that it's a gimmick and they want to get you know funding for researching further products that they want to do but hey they're taking people's money for this Smart Watch people are going wow it never needs to change a battery when they don't realize you could have just done that anyway with a primary cell so yeah but they won't tell you that because then it wouldn't sell and whilst they do kind of work here the reviews are fairly clear that it's a lackluster SmartWatch with a premium rate price plus the thing is an absolute brick to wear and while there are some happy reviews about 50% of the comments on their IndieGoGo what raised over two million dollars look like this just received Wayne today setup was easy and quick but step counter is not working I tried walking running jumping but it doesn't count at all kindly advise luxe Edition still no shipping information refund received it less than a month ago after yesterday completed the SW update today the watch completely blacked out once I started an out or activity the same occurred with the power watch one but I decided tell let it go since the number two was about to be released I've tried the reboot setup but the watch remains completely off please refund so that's the amazing story of Thea awesome reverse microwave and if you enjoyed that drop a like on this video and if you don't want to miss out on more videos like this make sure you hit the notification bell and if you really want to support this channel you can do it directly by a patreon and I'll leave the links below and there thanks for watching [Music]

Channel: Thunderf00t

Views: 688,001

Rating: 4.9112606 out of 5

Keywords: juno, cooling, drinks, wine, indiegogo, busted, thunderf00t, pelitier, tec, thermoelectric, cooler, drinks cooler

Id: p9i1mhNsYXQ

Length: 25min 38sec (1538 seconds)

Published: Sun Jan 12 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/Tiny_Pay]

Why does every scam on this planet use a bloody peltier device

[u/vanillaskies66]

*it uses still/standing cool water to chill a can. There are devices out there that use ice water propulsion, which don't risk bacteria forming where you stick your wine bottles cans in to.

[u/Massive-Gas]

"why put ur drink in a fridge and waste energy?" wait, what? if u already own a fridge, why not use it? it's only waste energy if u dont use ur fridge to cool things down...

[u/exclamationmarek]

Egh. I can't agree with the bulk of the video.

Yes, the Juno campaign is full of horrible marketing bullshit. Calling it a "reverse microwave" with an "active matrix technology" is a stretch, and saying that it is more energy efficient than just keeping the wine bottle in the fridge all the time is outright wrong. However, I see no reason to "bust" this product overall.

The product was demonstrated on CES. I see no reason to doubt the claims of all the journalists who were presented a lukewarm can of beverage, placed it in the device, seen it work, pulled out a cold can, tasted it themselves and measured how much time it took to cool it.

And the math on this device checks out as well. 0.7L of wine, from 23°C lukewarm room temperature to 10°C, that's 0.7 * 4200 * (23-10) = 38,220J. These thermo-electric elements are known to be very inefficient, and for the most part they are, but they don't perform terribly bad then the temperature difference between the cold and hot side isn't too big (see the second chart here). With a big enough heatsink, and powerful enough fan, its resonable to expect the temperature delta across the TEC to be around 30°C (10 on the cooling side, 40 on the heating side), so we are following the yellow line on the graph. Now, combine this with a slightly oversized cell, running at just 0.7 its maximum current (or 0.49 maximum power), will allow for a coefficient of performance above 0.5. So a 500W cell running at 250W will deliver at least 125W of cooling during extended load and significantly more (up to 250W of cooling) before the wine cools down and the heatsink heats up.

So with 125W of cooling, that 38,220J will take 38220/125 = 305 seconds = 5 minutes and 5 seconds. Exactly as much as the manufacturer claims, and exactly as much as the independent journalists confirm to have seen demonstrated. There will be some extra losses, the glass in the bottle will be an annoying isolator, but on the other hand the cooling will start off at 250W of effective power (instead of 125W), so that should make up for those losses.

And how does Thunderf00t bust this? By saying that his shitty setup from years ago wasn't able to do this? The setup that doesn't have good thermal coupling between the TEC and the liquid, and that runs on only 50W. And that is supposed to be proof that device with unspecified power (could be 200W, could be 500W!), and a good thermal transfer solution will not work?

Is this a great product? No. An ice bucket will work just as fine. But this will for sure be faster than just putting the wine bottle in the fridge, as the heat transfer between the air in the fridge and the bottle isn't that great as with the water of an ice bath or the water in the Juno device. Did Thunderf00t never put a bottle of wine in a fridge, if he claims that it will work just as fast? I'm sure everyone who as ever done that knows that this takes longer than 5 minutes, even in the freezer.

And yes their claims of being energy efficient are utterly wrong, but other than that, the product does, provably work as advertised.

And why is this video padded so hard? How does the thermal camera demo relate to the Juno? Why does he ignore the reports of journalists, and instead spends time finding and reading out loud the stupidest comments on this articles that he can find. There will always be a stupid comment somewhere on the internet, what does that prove?! I think I don't like this guy at all.

[u/UncleGeorge]

see thunder foot video * *25 minutes nope, thunder foot need to learn to edit the fuck out of his videos, it's 10m content and 15m of repetition

[u/WhatImKnownAs]

Juno campaign on Indiegogo

[u/sniperman357]

Thunferf00t talking about something that isn't Anita Sarkessien???!???

[u/mwax321]

Sorry to be that guy who doesnt watch the entire video, but what is his gripe? Does it flat out not work, or is he upset because it's not actually a "reverse microwave?" I assume it's just another peltier cooler, but I always assumed that.

A lot of wine shops now have these wine chillers at the front of the store where you submerge a beverage in moving cold water, and it rapidly cools it down for you. Isn't that what this is?

[u/ZoaTech]

I would watch this, but I don't want my Youtube feed to be crushed with videos of people complaining about "feminazis"...